Culture Club - A New Beauty Standards Theory, Mahjong's Rebrand & Are Men Getting Woman'd？

00:00:00.000 Mahjong's being appropriated again, a TikTok posits a new beauty standards theory and is

00:00:11.600 Timothee Chalamet getting womaned? I'm Maggie Zhao and I'm Jasmine Wallace and you're listening to

00:00:17.200 Culture Club where two writers and editors chat about all things pop culture, current affairs,

00:00:22.260 the internet and our lives. Today we are on the land of the Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung people of the

00:00:27.620 Kulin nations. We would like to pay our respects to elders past and present and extend that to any

00:00:32.580 Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander listeners today. How are you feeling Jazz? It's a new moon

00:00:42.120 and also the start of your Saturn return. Insane. I start my Saturn return officially tomorrow

00:00:49.080 according to the calculations. I remember like three years ago we were driving to a friend's

00:00:56.640 and we were talking about Saturn returns in the car and we like we did the calculation on some

00:01:02.780 sort of website and I remember being like oh my god mine's in April 2026 like that's so long away

00:01:08.680 and now we're here. And how do you feel about it because for those who don't know like Saturn

00:01:14.240 return is neither positive or negative it can be quite a neutral thing it usually just

00:01:18.640 means that a big life event or like big life shifts are happening usually that's like things

00:01:24.460 like getting married but you've already done that maybe career changes maybe like

00:01:28.620 I don't want to be freaking you out as I say these things I'm like avoiding your eye like

00:01:33.820 moving overseas or you know shifts like that so how are you feeling yeah no I'm feeling good about

00:01:40.200 it I because I'm into astrology I have been like preparing for it mentally I can feel the like

00:01:46.400 restlessness a little bit creeping in but I don't know how it's going to manifest so I'm looking

00:01:51.120 forward to like seeing what's on the other side of it i'm trying to be really positive about it

00:01:55.160 because i think it can be really good and also it coincides with your 30s so everyone says that

00:01:59.800 your 30s are the best ever and you feel more like yourself and all that um so for people who don't

00:02:05.160 who aren't into astrology saturn is the planet of responsibilities and maturity and so it's

00:02:11.620 basically returning to the position in the sky that it was when you were born so that's why it's

00:02:15.740 not the same for every person who was born in like 1996 for example so it also happens in your

00:02:21.260 late 50s and your late 80s so this is the first one according to the cut it shapes your path

00:02:26.860 towards your true potential and important personal accountability famously intense and like you said

00:02:32.920 brings about some life shifts so yeah being married I don't know like a lot of people go

00:02:37.480 through breakups well touch bloody wood that's not happening no no no I'm saying like that's

00:02:42.500 something that happens to a lot of people so i wonder what like mine will be because i'm very

00:02:47.240 happily married right now hopefully forever i know it's all like um do you know how long your

00:02:53.380 sudden return period will be for so i've been in like the shadow period for like a year and then

00:02:58.520 now i'm like about to get to the peak as of tomorrow which is like scary and then it should

00:03:03.220 be over like 20 27 20 like mid 27 so i've got like a year of like and i turn 30 and stuff so

00:03:10.280 who knows what it will be but I'm feeling more like centered already and feeling like excited

00:03:16.900 for it so that's just the mindset I'm trying to stay in it's good that's like almost the post

00:03:20.700 um so when you turn 25 you get your prefrontal load fully developed and I felt amazing so maybe

00:03:26.500 I just have to wait for my sudden return to feel like another hit of like amazing yeah a lot of

00:03:31.560 people like do career changes as well um but no I'm feeling much better this week I want to thank

00:03:39.240 the people who reached out to me after my uh vulnerable kind of tears last week on the pod

00:03:47.180 I am proud of myself for like not cutting that out of the episode because in the moment I was

00:03:53.220 like oh this is a little embarrassing and like a bit not the norm for us I guess but I know that

00:03:58.420 Culture Club listeners are very kind and caring and this definitely feels like a safe space and

00:04:05.560 I just wanted to like highlight the reality of it I was not as eloquent as I wanted to be

00:04:09.440 but it was very much like raw and real and so I want to thank the people who messaged me or

00:04:15.440 commented on our Spotify page with just like a lot of it was just like support and love but some

00:04:22.000 people said they felt like seen by it as well they also suffer from PMDD probably also a good

00:04:27.780 time to mention that soon on the podcast we're having the author Emma Hardy who has written a

00:04:33.380 called periodic bitch and that is all about pmdd menstrual dysphoric disorder um so i'm even more

00:04:41.320 keen now that i'm like going through this myself even more keen to um what she has to say emma's

00:04:46.660 also speaking at the melbourne writers festival in may um so if you related to my not rant but my

00:04:53.760 like what i was going through then definitely tune into that episode because i think we'll get

00:04:59.400 a deeper dive on PMDD and severe PMS. I'm glad that we're continuing this conversation and

00:05:05.240 obviously don't beat yourself up for, you know, not being quote unquote eloquent. I think the

00:05:09.460 most powerful thing you could have done was show up as who you were that day and like allow us in

00:05:14.440 to that. So love you. I'm emotional. My mum was listening and she was like, Maggie was so nice to

00:05:22.320 you. I was really, I was like, can I get up to like cross the room and give you a hug? I kept

00:05:27.580 being like i want to but anyway sending you love again from like two meters away echoing what jazz

00:05:36.100 said it is so nice when we do receive messages from listeners so thank you so much we want to

00:05:41.400 give you a reminder that you can rate and review us on apple or spotify and that really helps us

00:05:48.460 out so thank you for your support anyway you started a new hobby or you kind of have revisited

00:05:54.640 a hobby this week. Can you tell us more? Yeah, I bought a secondhand cello and I've been thinking

00:06:02.240 about this for a little while and I'd been searching for maybe like one, two months on

00:06:06.160 Facebook marketplace and I bit the bullet and I bought a cello. So cool. I'm so excited. When I

00:06:14.280 was a teenager from year seven to nine ish, I learned at school and I like you've rented,

00:06:19.260 like you can, you've rent, I'd rented a cello then so I never owned one. So this is the first

00:06:23.360 time I've ever owned a cello adult cellos are expensive and like that's the thing this is

00:06:28.000 secondhand and it's $850 for real when I saw that in your tiktok I was like $850 this is like the

00:06:33.920 most I've ever spent on marketplace but I was like I'm ready I mean thinking about it I thought it

00:06:39.780 would be closer to like the five six hundred dollar mark but anyway it's fine I'm like an

00:06:44.400 adult girl and I was like yeah this is for my birthday you know I just other excuses and I'm

00:06:51.180 really excited I'm now looking for lessons as well I was really inspired by Melbourne creator

00:06:56.100 Naomi Kebel and she is now playing the saxophone from when she was like as a teenager and I was

00:07:01.640 like oh yeah you can just do that and like learn something new so I am excited and stay tuned in

00:07:07.740 terms of my lessons I'm a bit nervous you can revisit hobbies so you played it in school in

00:07:13.200 high school yeah I didn't even know this yeah really I loved it so much my cello that I rented

00:07:18.260 his name was Antonio like I named him oh he's saying your teacher oh no my cello and obviously

00:07:26.100 I think Leve also has a big part to play in it Icelandic Chinese musician that I love she plays

00:07:33.160 her cello and I've just been really inspired I pulled it out and um it's so much louder than

00:07:40.360 I remember I was like 10 p.m at night I'm like huh but we will see how we go

00:07:45.020 our fave internet girl emma chamberlain has collabed with west elm and released a furniture

00:08:00.600 and decor collection you saw this didn't you yes and it's so you i was like scrolling through the

00:08:07.660 website i was like wait did maggie actually collab with west elm i mean i know you're very

00:08:12.060 influenced by Emma Chamberlain like an OG follower I am and I always have said that I think we could

00:08:17.400 be friends potentially I think so too I think we'll do a good interview I'm just putting it out

00:08:21.840 there putting it out into the universe yeah if she ever comes to Melbourne but Emma has kind of

00:08:27.360 grown a lot in recent years and is now in like the interior design space she obviously had a

00:08:33.340 video with Architectural Digest a couple of years ago she's recently revisited her home um for this

00:08:39.580 collab specifically yeah well this is the thing so back to the collab first if you haven't seen

00:08:44.340 it visually it's quite like mid-century inspired it's very kitschy it's very quirky there are some

00:08:51.740 ongoing motifs like buttons birds pigeons what else it's kind of cottagecore in a way um yeah

00:09:00.260 very kitschy yeah eclectic cottagecore I like that her video when it dropped with architectural

00:09:05.540 digest this week I like clicked on it so quickly and have you seen that yet have you seen her

00:09:11.720 revisited collab no because I fear that I will be so jealous and you're right for that I will say

00:09:20.320 I love the video it's amazing to see they kind of flash back to her old house and her speaking in it

00:09:25.380 in the space of three years oh my god Emma just feels so much more like herself at ease like

00:09:30.480 she's in her other video she's kind of like in like almost like a two-piece matching like body

00:09:35.120 concept like her blonde hair she looks so different i feel like she just feels so much

00:09:40.020 more at ease in her body in terms of like even her voice was lower in this video it wasn't like

00:09:44.640 she was like hi ad she was more like hey hey ad you know that's beside the point the video itself

00:09:52.740 was really fun to watch but most commenters were pointing out the fact that it read like one big

00:09:58.360 ad which it was well yeah well they didn't disclose almost everything that she was showing

00:10:03.380 was part of the collab but she a lot of the time she wasn't really disclosing it being like oh she

00:10:08.260 would just be like oh i love this painting or like i love this fruit bowl blah blah and then

00:10:12.300 you're like oh like almost every single thing was part of that collab yeah interesting i wonder what

00:10:17.280 the laws are like in australia uh in america because i work in branded content in australia

00:10:22.340 and you very much have to disclose if it's an ad.

00:10:26.380 And also being content creators, when people are lax on that.

00:10:29.780 I know.

00:10:30.140 Naughty, naughty.

00:10:31.840 I have two theories for this one.

00:10:34.320 If there wasn't payment exchange for this,

00:10:37.060 I think West Elm would have gone to Architectural Digest being like,

00:10:40.280 hey, you can use like Emma as talent for this.

00:10:42.780 So like having that talent pool as well as having affiliate links 0.98

00:10:45.900 for the collection.

00:10:46.900 I'm not sure exactly if there was the passing of money, but.

00:10:50.760 Yeah, it's still affiliate marketing.

00:10:52.340 which you should disclose in Australia.

00:10:54.300 True.

00:10:54.580 You should disclose.

00:10:55.220 That is true.

00:10:56.360 One thing about the collection is that I am shook at how extensive it is.

00:11:00.880 When you hear like, oh, Emma has designed pieces for West Elm,

00:11:04.560 I might have guessed like 20 pieces.

00:11:06.860 There's 150.

00:11:08.920 150.

00:11:09.980 When I first saw it as well, I thought it was just furniture.

00:11:12.080 But, yeah, there's like pillows and like, what are they called?

00:11:15.100 Like ceramic, like pigeons, like just wall, decorations.

00:11:19.720 Decorations.

00:11:20.120 There's, like, a ceramic pigeon glasses holder, like, for your spectacles.

00:11:24.640 It's so random.

00:11:26.220 But it's only available in the U.S.

00:11:28.320 I understand why.

00:11:29.420 It's, like, it would be really unsustainable to, like, ship it to Australia

00:11:32.460 if it's, like, not made here and stuff.

00:11:34.720 But I'm jealous.

00:11:36.240 I just, like, I want some of the pieces because they're actually, like, our style.

00:11:39.800 They're very cool.

00:11:40.100 They're very culture club.

00:11:41.440 Maybe it's best for our wallets that we can't get it here.

00:11:43.940 Yeah.

00:11:50.120 The tile matching game that originated in China in the 19th century, Mahjong, is trending again

00:12:01.700 at the moment. It is having a big resurgence. I've seen it here in Australia, but also in the

00:12:08.060 US. I only played for the first time this year during our family's Lunar New Year celebration.

00:12:14.320 So I'm pretty new to it. Have you ever played? No, but I would like to. Well, it looks really

00:12:19.000 intimidating because the tiles have all these like intricate pictures and then there's also

00:12:22.580 some mandarin characters but i'll have you know it's similar to rummy cup oh i love rummy cup

00:12:27.500 yeah so it's actually not as scary as it looks dare i say but we are talking about it now because

00:12:33.880 yes on one hand it's great that it's picking up popularity and finding

00:12:38.180 a home in new generations there's even like different clubs i've seen pop up in melbourne

00:12:43.820 that you can play at but we need to talk about a cohort of white people who are profiting off

00:12:51.520 this game that isn't this new york times published a story in march called playing games with the

00:12:57.660 decor and in it they profile and photograph the women behind oh my mahjong sorry oh my mahjong

00:13:06.460 like what a name what a name one of the quotes from the interview from one of the founders read

00:13:11.160 mahjong is becoming this beautiful way of hosting not just slapping a game on the table

00:13:16.320 what which is weird and i don't know why the editors would have pulled that out like that

00:13:21.540 i'm really tired of word salad at the moment i'm really tired of like words not meaning anything

00:13:25.660 and you're right about that i went on oh my mahjong's website and their like seo tagline

00:13:32.080 reads elevated mahjong sets and accessories and where tradition meets modern style what

00:13:39.780 what was the worst to me was they even sell mahjong teacher courses sorry when you need

00:13:46.680 like a teacher course for a game otherwise as well surely there's like there's like dnd

00:13:51.340 teachers and stuff and courses right but who's paying for like you can go online and just learn 0.99

00:13:56.700 something right well you've got to think of the clientele here if they are like ladies who lunch

00:14:01.160 like white women in america yeah it's all very like the movie the help then they it's a status

00:14:08.560 symbol to like be like I'm my mahjong teacher or like I'm going to this club I'm going you know

00:14:13.680 it's a status symbol thing to like pay someone else to teach you rather than like being independent

00:14:19.540 enough to like do it yourself that's so true jazz and I didn't think about it like that marketing

00:14:24.540 brain marketing brain yeah the wording of like elevated sets you know where like they're upgrading

00:14:30.560 this you know game that's been around for so many decades it just feels so eyebrowly to me

00:14:37.160 Like, for a white person to say, elevating something that is of, like, Chinese culture, that is inherently, like, racist.

00:14:44.540 Yeah.

00:14:45.300 You know, it's like imperialism.

00:14:46.840 Yeah.

00:14:47.060 Wow, we're going, like, so deep.

00:14:48.700 There has been a lot of backlash on this online, so we are not alone in sharing these opinions.

00:14:54.900 A thread posted by American fashion editor and stylist, Gabriela Carefa Johnson, reads,

00:15:00.380 Mahjong is an almost 200-year-old Chinese game and has been about community and gathering for as long as it's been around.

00:15:07.160 No one is, quote, just slapping a game on the table. 0.56

00:15:10.900 This is one of the most blatant examples of cultural theft masquerading as innovation I've seen in a while. 0.99

00:15:17.200 The way that these women so confidently think they're doing something is, wow. 1.00

00:15:21.380 NYT never ceases to amaze in who they choose to platform and why.

00:15:25.860 Author Kat Liu also said,

00:15:27.600 Crying today because the people in Hong Kong and China who hand-carved mahjong tiles are disappearing,

00:15:33.180 while folks will pay hundreds even thousands for mass-produced plastic sets that don't even

00:15:38.740 resemble the originals with big media calling them innovative or elevated like huh i think this is a

00:15:46.480 good conversation reminder to realize that it is important to honor the origins of a game we might

00:15:53.600 be like oh it's just a game right i know that we when we talk about cultural appropriation we're

00:15:58.740 usually using the medium of fashion when fashion has like a lot of historical or even like religious

00:16:05.020 or cultural meaning. But I also think we should also have a similar opinion and care when it comes

00:16:13.420 to games because that's still part of culture. Here in Australia, the Australian Football League

00:16:18.340 or AFL, it actually originated from a First Nations game called Mangruk, which is a Gunditjmara

00:16:25.340 word for game ball and we're not saying that you know people can't play afl or people can't play

00:16:31.600 mahjong obviously not i think what we're getting at is i think it's good to acknowledge the origins

00:16:36.540 of it and the original creators of the game well i think the issue is more just that like these

00:16:41.080 white women are in the new york times getting like a profile on mahjong which is like a chinese game

00:16:47.780 yeah and the way that they they're trying to remarket it when it's like centuries old that's

00:16:52.400 the issue here it's definitely not that white people can't play mahjong or you can't play afl

00:16:57.500 i laugh because it's like such an australian game now that it's like like a like in white 0.65

00:17:02.600 australian culture i'm saying yeah um but yeah that's just it's just that's just the icky part 0.90

00:17:09.120 so we're not doing that let's play mahjong the way it was meant to be played 1.00

00:17:22.400 Turns out that the brightest minds, the best scholars of our generation are on TikTok

00:17:29.920 because why did this TikTok by the user Sarah Shower of Shower Thoughts change our brain

00:17:38.280 chemistry? I saw this TikTok and I was like, should we bring it up on the podcast? And then

00:17:43.220 our producer Kitsch also brought it up and I was like, okay, we can go there. We're going to be

00:17:48.500 talking about a beauty standards theory posited by Sarah. And I want to know what you think about

00:17:55.740 it, Jazz. Sarah, after reading The Secret Lives of Colors, finds out that there's a big color

00:18:00.960 blindness gender gap. So apparently one in 12 men are colorblind and only one in 200 women are.

00:18:08.460 Did you know this? I did not know that. And that is, that seems so off. I think Tom might be.

00:18:14.720 He always will be like, oh my God, I love that green thing. And I'm like, that's blue.

00:18:18.500 I genuinely thought he was big, dumb. 0.99

00:18:23.860 One in 12, like we know 12 men. 1.00

00:18:25.540 We know 12 men.

00:18:27.200 My ex-boyfriend was colourblind.

00:18:28.580 Was it quite serious?

00:18:29.920 No, it didn't impact his life from what I know anyway.

00:18:32.640 Like it wasn't a big thing.

00:18:34.500 He didn't want to be a pilot or anything like that.

00:18:36.740 He was a creative person.

00:18:37.960 So he is a creative person.

00:18:39.520 He's still alive.

00:18:40.700 Anyway.

00:18:41.540 Anyway, ex-boyfriend.

00:18:43.420 Well, to that point about being a pilot and stuff,

00:18:45.380 because typically in military and military-type services,

00:18:49.180 they don't allow people who are colourblind to join.

00:18:51.680 But Sarah says that in World War II and the Vietnam War,

00:18:55.000 they made an exception and they actually, like,

00:18:58.180 allowed people to join the army or whatever who were colourblind

00:19:02.680 because they can pay better attention to texture, structure and shape,

00:19:08.780 which means they can pay more attention and spot camouflage better.

00:19:13.560 Isn't that interesting? 0.99

00:19:14.240 important stuff and Sarah makes this claim and relates it back to beauty standards let's play 1.00

00:19:20.520 some of the clip now if you think about all the things that guys don't like about women's bodies 0.84

00:19:27.580 cellulite acne razor bumps hair stretch marks texture they're picking up on the texture what

00:19:36.860 don't they like about birthday makeup it's cakey texture right when they talk about being hairless

00:19:44.140 they're focusing on smooth that is texture right and then why are women in their 20s and 30s past

00:19:52.200 their prime spinster spinsters haggard old dull you almost 30 spinster haggard dull there's another

00:20:04.100 part where she's like women in their late 20s and 30s they're losing radiance so they like look

00:20:10.320 different to men who are colorblind i think that was getting a bit deep in it but the way she's

00:20:14.800 like so serious and all the comments were like you need to do like a side thesis on this well

00:20:19.240 she does her background is in a bit of um statistical research and stuff so she this

00:20:24.880 could happen i also love this because you can tell she's got this relevant the revelation is

00:20:29.860 come it's coming it's becoming physical as she's talking she's also a lesbian which i love because

00:20:36.740 it's like she's kind of outside the performance of male gaze so I think sometimes it can be easier to

00:20:42.540 not be objective but to examine this oh that's an interesting point as well I think there's

00:20:48.480 something in this for real like why it's a good theory if men who are colorblind see the world

00:20:57.140 differently and see bodies differently then those complaints are like you need to you can't have

00:21:03.180 razor hair razor bumps and stuff and acne etc that kind of checks I still think it's wrong I

00:21:10.520 still think like why are you like judging someone on there the way they look but it makes sense

00:21:16.640 because I feel like as women it's a lot like what are you even talking about like for instance growing

00:21:20.060 up I like like the look of stretch marks and even like eye bags on people but societally that's not

00:21:28.140 something that you quote-unquote should feel because that's a way that we've been conditioned

00:21:34.000 yeah but it's like if we look at it objectively these are just like marks or like different

00:21:39.060 colors or texture on skin am I going too far deep like they shouldn't mean anything right

00:21:46.340 but there's like two things are like overlapping like a Venn diagram here you've got like

00:21:50.120 the beauty standards of like patriarchy which is youth youth is rewarded capitalist society

00:21:56.640 but then there's also the male colorblind thing so they're kind of overlapping definitely and to

00:22:02.500 the point there was a commenter being like wait what do you mean but only one in 12 men are

00:22:06.560 colorblind so is it one in 12 men who think like this and then the op was like no it takes like

00:22:12.140 one man to kind of set this ideal or and it's like a dominant thought because now we internalize some

00:22:17.760 of these opinions as well right and it's not like we're colorblind it doesn't mean like

00:22:21.300 if you're colorblind you think this way it's a good theory it's interesting i think someone

00:22:26.100 else should or someone she should expand on it there was a commenter that said the most recurring

00:22:32.200 compliment my colorblind boyfriend gives me is that I'm soft this has had nearly 1 million likes

00:22:38.140 by the way on TikTok 1 million at the time of recording yeah people are really seeing something

00:22:43.260 in it and I think what it's shone a light on is that you're right patriarchy is obviously such a

00:22:49.220 commanding force in all women's lives. And beauty standards do feel kind of frivolous in a way

00:22:56.940 because it is defined by patriarchy, class, race, ageism, sexism, all the isms, right? So

00:23:06.840 this feels kind of funny and trivial because at the end of the day, a lot of beauty standards do

00:23:12.880 feel that way. Yeah, I agree. I just think the funny part of this is the way that Sarah delivers

00:23:16.560 it like I was laughing out loud when I watched this I was like this is a great theory and it's

00:23:20.540 also so funny because like you said you can see the cogs in her wheel like she's got the book in

00:23:23.980 front of her it's like she was reading and she's like oh my god like sets up the camera and it's

00:23:27.380 like like telling us this theory I want to like see more of that yeah it feels like she's like

00:23:32.700 decoding like the Tutankhamen something the hieroglyphics wait

00:23:46.560 A couple of weeks ago on the podcast, we spoke about Timothee Chalamet's ballet opera comments.

00:23:53.620 After that, he famously lost the Oscar.

00:23:57.920 Marty Supreme didn't get any awards at the Oscars, actually, when they were kind of like gunning for that sweep.

00:24:04.460 In the weeks since a lot of the Timothee discourse has died down,

00:24:10.120 One article by Otega Uwagwa for Grazia is asking if Timothee Chalamet is the first male

00:24:16.440 celebrity to get womaned.

00:24:18.580 Oof. 0.99

00:24:19.580 When you sent this through, I was like, oh my God, he has been womaned.

00:24:22.940 And for those of you who don't know, being womaned is a phenomenon where a public figure, 0.62

00:24:28.500 like a female celebrity, suddenly becomes unpopular with the masses after experiencing

00:24:35.240 like high levels of fame and adoration.

00:24:37.600 And it's seemingly like an overnight switch.

00:24:39.820 Yeah. We saw this, I feel like the example used the most is Anne Hathaway. I feel like we were a little bit too young to like remember when that happened. Like I remember it vaguely. But I guess the most recent example is probably Chapel Rhone. I think she still had, like we can see that a bit more clearly of like, this is what's happening. Like it's a smear campaign against her and like she's actively being quote unquote womaned. So I think more people like rejecting it being like, no, I still love her.

00:25:08.420 But we see it all the time.

00:25:10.520 I think another one probably is Sabrina Carpenter, would you say? 0.94

00:25:15.660 I don't know if she has been woman.

00:25:17.640 I'd say Taylor Swift.

00:25:19.240 I think Sabrina was close when she was doing the Juno tour.

00:25:22.240 Yeah, true.

00:25:23.320 With all her, like, the positions and stuff and, like,

00:25:25.040 people kind of, like, getting a bit sick of it.

00:25:27.520 Definitely Taylor Swift, reputation era. 1.00

00:25:29.220 And would you say she's been woman now after the life of a showgirl? 1.00

00:25:32.580 Yeah, a little bit.

00:25:33.620 it's often to do with um how much exposure someone is getting and how much they're in the news and

00:25:40.020 how much they're like in your face or supposedly in your face but when we're talking about timothy

00:25:44.360 ottega kind of um points to when he started dating kylie jenner as one of the first like

00:25:50.540 first reasons why people started to turn on him like early signs do you remember this yeah i i'm

00:25:56.320 really questioning the way that people talk about kylie jenner because we're seeing it so much on

00:26:00.800 our own personal socials when we talked about her in the moment the charlie xcx mockumentary

00:26:06.320 yeah the commentary against her i think very quickly veered into misogyny totally yeah on

00:26:12.120 our culture club instagram yeah definitely got some backlash i would say like you and i just

00:26:18.260 for posting and saying like oh we're like interested i think we said we're here for

00:26:21.580 her acting era or like we're interested in it one of the criticisms was like that we're

00:26:26.660 platforming the Kardashians and it's like for I reckon two years we were criticizing the

00:26:33.200 Kardashians nearly every single episode the Kardashian Jenners because they were like in

00:26:37.740 the news so much we were like criticizing like the way that they are like pushing beauty standards

00:26:42.460 and all that and I think that the way people talk about Kylie in relation to Timothy now

00:26:50.140 it definitely feels misogynistic especially at the start and I think I probably contributed to

00:26:55.300 that conversation the the through line was like what do they even talk about like he's so artsy 0.72

00:27:00.640 and she's so dumb like that was genuinely I think public opinion of it I think it still is and I

00:27:07.380 think we saw it especially with um Timothy's Oscar campaign kind of becoming a little bit more 0.99

00:27:12.920 bro-y um he was pushing away from the you know call me by your name ladybird persona

00:27:20.620 when he did kind of like a retrospective of his career so far at 30 years old we didn't really

00:27:25.660 talk about that on the podcast but anyway the movies that were mentioned like none of them

00:27:29.380 were like lady bird called by a name um the kind of more like feminine gay artsy movies um that

00:27:37.220 really kind of put him on the scene in the first place i think one of them correct me if i'm wrong

00:27:42.340 but i'm pretty sure one of them was like wonka instead of like lady bird which is like greta

00:27:46.340 egoic incredible movie so do you think that timothy's being womaned but by women like by

00:27:52.340 his original audience yeah i think so interesting yeah and i do think i think all womaned cases can

00:28:00.120 be reversed oh jennifer lawrence big one oh of course we forgot that same with anne hathaway

00:28:05.140 both of them having quite a revival right now even sorry another example margot robbie people

00:28:11.480 were like she's on the verge of it you reckon yeah so that's why it's like oh after this

00:28:16.160 Wuthering Heights campaign she might have to quote-unquote lay low a bit yeah people say

00:28:20.960 people have been saying that about Zendaya as well because of June and the drama saying like

00:28:26.420 oh she's better lay low because like she's been too overexposed but the way that we can pluck

00:28:31.300 like a dozen women's names out just then yet Timothy is one of the only I can't try I'm really

00:28:37.120 trying to think of another man that has been women and i'm sure they have been but he is one of the

00:28:43.100 few examples that come to mind june part three is coming out soon as well and i think he will be

00:28:49.360 on top of the press i think that is quite like a beloved franchise i feel like he's not going to

00:28:54.980 it's not going to impact his work that he's putting out or what he's going to be like acting

00:28:59.120 in so how much of this really like does he care i don't think he does he's kind well he's the last

00:29:05.760 week was on a beach with Kylie Jenner it looked like the Bahamas or something did you see the

00:29:09.960 kind of like soft launching of it was not even soft launching because they're obviously in a

00:29:13.940 relationship together but Kylie posted like all these photos on the beach with one Beatles song

00:29:18.640 and then Timothy like responded back so modern era like responded back with his own post on the

00:29:23.900 beach they're not photos of each other but also had a Beatles song like attached to the carousel

00:29:28.720 that's very romantic I really like that so for Grazia Otega wrote unfortunately for Chalamet

00:29:36.920 people are probably just sick of seeing him everywhere given the press tours for June part

00:29:41.040 two A Complete Unknown and Marty Supreme were virtually back to back as countless female

00:29:46.380 stars have learned before him the only course of action once you've been womaned is simply 0.99

00:29:50.640 to lay low for a while and maybe grow your hair out again

00:29:53.380 it's now time for bookmarked where we share a recommendation from the week of something that

00:30:08.220 we have enjoyed watching reading or listening to jazz what do you have last week i saw the drama

00:30:15.400 which is a new black comedy film from a24 it was written and directed by christopher

00:30:20.680 and i actually had to sign an nda no way like before i saw this no way because we go to a lot

00:30:29.020 of screenings we've never been asked to sign an nda yeah it was like you must like i hereby

00:30:35.240 will not like talk about this it was until the 31st and it was like from new york yeah gag gag

00:30:42.340 order um but now i'm free i'm released from my gag order and i want to talk about it i will not

00:30:49.380 give a spoiler because it's just come out and that is like the big twist of the movie can i ask

00:30:57.440 because we talked about the trailer when it dropped because of course zendaya arpat's like

00:31:01.140 massive cast we like posited some theories about what the twist could be we said things like oh

00:31:07.260 she murdered someone and whatever else was the twist anything in that realm or was it more of

00:31:13.620 a surprise because of the headline I saw the day before I had a rough idea of like the theme

00:31:19.360 of the twist um so that kind of spoilt it a little bit for me so I knew roughly what it was

00:31:25.420 but I didn't know the details of what it was it's so hard to say without spoiling let me just say

00:31:30.640 the plot as well so this couple who are played by Zendaya and Rob Pattinson are about to get

00:31:35.520 married it's like the week of their wedding and two nights before their wedding um they are out

00:31:42.100 for dinner with two of their best friends who are like a married couple as well they start going

00:31:46.680 around the table like what's the worst thing you've ever done and zendaya's answer kind of

00:31:51.520 creates all this chaos there's a lot of like moral gray areas and i think it will spark some

00:31:58.660 interesting conversations amongst people it's a very american issue i will say so it's a very

00:32:07.400 cultural movie uh that is a cultural movie it's a movie that feels like a movie um okay

00:32:16.180 it's hard to talk about because you don't want to spoil it yeah i thought it was a good movie

00:32:21.320 yeah it was very suspenseful it was very stressful especially someone who just got

00:32:26.680 married like six months ago and like knowing i can't even fathom the stress that they go through

00:32:33.420 and like what eventually eventuates the characters are very imperfect so I think it's really

00:32:40.120 realistic in that point like it's not like this is right this is wrong it's like what would you

00:32:45.160 do in this situation if you found out the person you were going to marry had this big secret yeah

00:32:50.200 so the twist is to answer your question in a very roundabout way the twist is still pretty big like

00:32:55.820 it's not what I thought it was um but it's shocking I would say I can't wait but it's

00:33:02.920 very american i will say like most of the um drive and desire to see this is like to know the twist

00:33:09.320 so i think they've done a really good at building that suspense yeah it's good that like you haven't

00:33:14.660 felt spoiled by it no at all and yeah it's come out in cinemas in australia now alana haim plays

00:33:20.840 the best friend she's in so much at the moment i'm kind of like what has she been doing is she

00:33:26.020 getting women no she no but i'm like she's in everything she was in the master that also had

00:33:31.680 um josh o'connor that i watched recently but yeah she is doing so much and one battle after another

00:33:36.440 yes yeah did you see that i did i did it's not that long of a movie either it definitely is all

00:33:42.260 building to this one crescendo which is their wedding day i thought the ending was pretty

00:33:47.080 convenient but then where else do you go after yeah that after the wedding day it sounds like

00:33:52.220 a play as well the way that it's put together definitely could be a play for sure that's a

00:33:57.700 really good point um so like maybe the characters you don't need to find out exactly what happens

00:34:02.420 after because that's the story like the story is just like the lead up to the wedding day

00:34:08.180 so I'd recommend it that was like kind of a funky review because it's like secrets and spoilers and

00:34:13.840 stuff so hopefully that makes you want to go out and see it there has been some controversy around

00:34:19.620 it especially with the theme but I think it's like a good conversation startup amongst friends

00:34:26.520 especially American friends. Oh my god. I'm so excited. Okay my guess something about guns. Okay

00:34:32.100 that's it we're not saying anything else. I closed my eyes when I said that because I don't want to

00:34:37.060 see your reaction. Yeah I'm like look at my computer like I won't give away. What are you

00:34:41.360 recommending for us this week Max? I've got a book and it was actually our book club book and

00:34:46.520 it is called The Ministry of Time written by Kaylianne Bradley. I'm so happy we had this

00:34:53.180 book club book uh I ended up loving it so much I put it in the camp of like sci-fi historical

00:35:00.420 fiction maybe uh with a good dose of romance sprinkled in it follows a civil servant who

00:35:08.720 gets a job promotion to like a mysterious like new department and essentially that role is to

00:35:17.000 take care of expats but not expats as like people from different countries and stuff but people from

00:35:22.820 different periods um like time travel like people from the past oh cool yeah and they're the kind of

00:35:29.320 testing out if time travel is feasible and her and the other chosen people in this new department

00:35:35.460 are the bridges like the bridges between the expats and like the current world they are in

00:35:41.900 they are it's set in London and it's set in the future but like near future vibes her expat that

00:35:48.000 she ends up living with is from 1847 and this is actually a real guy um commander graham gore he's

00:35:55.240 a former victorian polar explorer and it's so funny because this author the way that this book

00:36:00.400 idea came about was that she saw this photo of this man and was like oh he's hot i'm gonna write

00:36:05.200 fanfic about him and then she did all the best books are fanfic exactly and then she turned it

00:36:11.200 into her debut novel this book was like probably the highest book we've ever rated on book club

00:36:16.560 Sadly, Jazz missed it because she was ill, and I know you haven't read it yet.

00:36:20.580 No, but I borrowed it from the library.

00:36:21.780 Good.

00:36:22.300 And it's the most endearing book ever.

00:36:24.420 I was saying that it's got themes of magic realism,

00:36:28.260 which is when, like, everyday human things feel magical

00:36:32.020 because there's, like, an outsider's perspective.

00:36:34.760 You know, he learns about washing machines and feminism and Spotify,

00:36:38.020 and the writing is just so delightful is the word I'd put it as.

00:36:43.320 It's very quaint.

00:36:44.280 It makes sense.

00:36:45.100 someone in our book club pointed out that the civil servant is a linguist and it's like oh yeah

00:36:50.060 and there's such beautiful vocab I was reading it on my Kobo which has like the inbuilt dictionary

00:36:55.100 and the way I was highlighting a lot of words which is really lovely um it really tickled me

00:37:01.000 I loved the different relationships in the books and the friendships and the characters

00:37:06.260 they were so full of love and yeah I really liked it like I gave it four four and a half stars yeah

00:37:14.540 wow well it's on my shelf and I've got on the library from the library so I have a due date

00:37:20.420 to get it back so I will definitely finish it and report back to our book club but I love books

00:37:26.080 like this like historical fiction sci-fi I think it's so fun when writers can just like create a

00:37:30.660 whole new world like that must be so fulfilling creatively to create something like that um so

00:37:36.400 thank you for sharing of course of course it's such a goodie and I know like our audience will

00:37:40.940 really like it as well okay well that brings us to the end of the episode thank you listeners for

00:37:47.120 joining us we've loved chatting with you and we will be back very shortly we have a bunch of

00:37:52.760 interviews coming out really soon we just released one with Courtney Barnett last week

00:37:57.600 so listen to that if you are a music lover otherwise we will talk to you soon bye

00:38:10.940 You

Culture Club - April 06, 2026

A New Beauty Standards Theory, Mahjong's Rebrand & Are Men Getting Woman'd？

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