Culture Club - Greenwashing, Ugh As If! LIVE at Melbourne Fashion Festival

00:00:00.620 Okay, my darlings, welcome, welcome, welcome to the Fashion Weekend Stage here at Emporium as part of the Melbourne Fashion Festival.

00:00:08.920 I'm so glad you could all join us for this very exciting segment and addition to the Fashion Weekend Stage.

00:00:14.660 This next segment is presented by our friends at Fashion Journal.

00:00:18.360 We're going to be doing a live podcast recording with our friends at Culture Club.

00:00:23.540 I want you to give a huge round of applause and welcome Jasmine and Maggie to the stage.

00:00:28.160 I know they've got a very special guest joining us today.

00:00:30.440 So please let me hand you over to Culture Club.

00:00:32.980 Thank you so much.

00:00:33.960 Thank you, everyone.

00:00:35.440 Thank you, Karen from Finance, for the introduction.

00:00:38.700 Before we begin, we would just like to acknowledge that the Wurundjeri and Boon Wurrung people

00:00:43.200 are the traditional custodians of the land upon which we're recording this podcast.

00:00:47.560 We would like to pay our respects to Elders past, present and emerging.

00:00:52.100 Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.

00:00:54.760 so welcome everyone to our chat today um it's kind of ironic that we're doing it in a mall

00:01:01.600 because we're going to be talking about sustainable fashion and more specifically

00:01:05.700 greenwashing um but before we get into it we'll just give a little rundown of ourselves so as

00:01:12.300 karen from finance said we are culture club we're a pop culture and current affairs podcast

00:01:17.860 discussing all things fashion culture celebrity gossip all that yeah so we started in lockdown

00:01:26.360 last year maybe in July and it's been super fun since then we've had a few guests like

00:01:31.700 influencer Rowie Singh we've had head of branding and marketing at Clothing the Gap Sianna Cotullo

00:01:38.340 and now we're here which is exciting so my name is Maggie Zhao I'm a 22 year old

00:01:43.780 writer and content creator and obviously podcaster. I've written for publications like

00:01:49.540 Elle Australia, MTV, Fashion Journal, of course, my favourite, Well Made Clothes, etc.

00:01:56.240 And I'm Jasmine, similar to Maggie. I'm a freelance writer and I've also written for

00:02:01.620 Fashion Journal, Frankie and Rush, as well as doing the podcast, obviously. So first of all,

00:02:08.460 Who knows what greenwashing is? 0.93

00:02:11.080 Little hands in the front here.

00:02:13.420 Kind of.

00:02:14.460 Nagi, do you want to say? 0.78

00:02:15.700 Yeah, so greenwashing is an interesting thing. 0.99

00:02:18.760 So basically how I'll describe it short term,

00:02:22.180 it's when a business employs marketing techniques

00:02:25.220 to make them seem more eco-friendly than they actually are.

00:02:29.240 And as we know, I feel like sustainability is a really hot topic at the moment.

00:02:33.160 Everyone wants to look eco-friendly.

00:02:35.240 Like we all know how good it is when you remember to bring your keep cup

00:02:38.380 and you feel like an ethical queen yeah and because it's becoming more normal and people

00:02:45.540 are becoming more aware of it um I feel like well I don't feel like we know that brands now are

00:02:53.000 starting to greenwash basically it's when you have a brand that says okay by 2030 50% of our

00:03:02.060 fibers will be recycled um yet they're still putting out three collections a month or even

00:03:07.900 more like hundreds of collections a year so it's kind of like tricking consumers into feeling like

00:03:13.440 they're doing the right thing for the environment when it they're not they're greenwashing and jazz

00:03:18.740 do you know where this term came from i actually didn't know officially where this term came from

00:03:24.020 until we researched for this yeah i found it so weird because it's actually started to do with

00:03:29.580 nothing to do with the fashion industry so it was actually coined by an environmentalist

00:03:33.760 Jay Westerveld in 1986 and it was so funny because he claimed that the hotel industry was promoting

00:03:40.080 the reusing of towels as like an environmental tactic that you would you know save water and

00:03:44.900 stuff but he believed it was actually just to save money so you know that right when you go to a

00:03:50.580 hotel and you see that little sign that's like if you want to keep on your towel hang it up don't

00:03:55.600 throw it down yeah I remember seeing them when I was a little kid and thinking like oh my god that's

00:03:59.840 so good like that they're thinking about the environment but I mean I'm sure it's a reason now

00:04:05.260 but yeah it's interesting that that's where it came from but now we consume so much fashion and

00:04:11.760 we need to keep on top of you know the messages that are getting put out to us yeah so it's like

00:04:18.300 the question that I would ask next is how do we even spot greenwashing you know so I always look

00:04:24.480 for buzzwords there are so many nice words that brands employ things like natural or eco-friendly

00:04:30.800 sustainable green clean and actually there's no regulations behind these words so literally

00:04:37.260 anyone can use them and make themselves seem you know much more environmentally friendly than they

00:04:42.480 actually are what else is there that we can spot also when brands say in the future or we're on a

00:04:51.640 journey of I feel like it's hard to tell sometimes because it's good that they're putting that out

00:04:57.640 there they're aware of it but also we need to get on top of this now like this is a we're in a

00:05:04.520 climate emergency um so there's that as well as yapping on about recyclable packaging again that's

00:05:14.000 a good step forward like recycling packaging is important but um sometimes it can be easier for

00:05:19.480 brands to focus on that rather than getting to like the core issues which are one not paying

00:05:25.820 garment workers enough and just producing so much and consuming so much so okay so let's get into

00:05:33.760 some real life examples and this is when we're going to point out some brands right now so one

00:05:39.100 I love to pick on is H&M which I think is kind of close to where we are right now so they've got a

00:05:46.200 thing called their conscious collection where you know it's clothes that mainly are made out of

00:05:51.840 recycled materials interestingly enough that collection has 383 items that are selling in

00:05:59.120 Australia which is a lot of items but that's out of there I counted like I did the maths and they

00:06:05.360 have 11,000 products on offer in Australia right now so I think it kind of cancels it out yeah and

00:06:12.620 you've also got companies like Glassons also doing this at the moment like they're becoming

00:06:17.200 quite insidious for it there are also something something else that's interesting is the

00:06:23.220 collaborations fast fashion brands do with like high fashion designers what do you think of that

00:06:29.480 yeah so I actually just wrote an article about this for well-made clothes so H&M again picking

00:06:35.460 on them they've collaborated with big names such as Versace, Comme des Garçons, I'm gonna butcher

00:06:40.620 all these names. I don't know why I'm trying. Like Kenzo, etc. They just released one with Simone

00:06:45.720 Rotra on Thursday. Beautiful collection. It stars the Normal People actress, Daisy Edgar-Jones. Oh

00:06:54.520 God, yeah. So it looks beautiful. But anyway, it's so interesting because I was reading up the

00:06:59.500 sustainability reports and production of these brands. And even though all the garments cost

00:07:04.780 like thousands of dollars, their production is actually not very good at all. So H&M collabing

00:07:10.080 with them doesn't necessarily make them seem more sustainable but it gives them that like

00:07:14.300 prestige and quality and luxuriousness that's associated with these brands which

00:07:18.940 in turn kind of amplify them to like a better status than they actually are exactly it's also

00:07:24.980 the accessibility and something we haven't touched on yet is that we need to acknowledge

00:07:31.640 our privilege here in that fast fashion is accessible and it takes time to try to find

00:07:39.780 the secondhand clothes or to like go through a brand's you know guidelines of what they're doing

00:07:45.480 for their ethics also you've got size privilege a lot of the time these fashion brands do make

00:07:51.340 larger sizes which for a lot of people like they don't have the choice to shop for like

00:07:56.640 an independent smaller brand so that's something that we also need to be aware of when we're having

00:08:03.540 these discussions yeah let's even talk about what we're wearing today so I'm in all secondhand

00:08:08.860 clothes my boots are from a friend and I got this dress in Japan a vintage store and I shop a lot

00:08:14.920 of secondhand clothes I go to op shops a lot and one thing being like having thin privilege and

00:08:21.280 being straight size it means that I can purchase from any section of the op shop and it will most

00:08:26.260 likely fit me also I have a lot of spare time on my hands like Jazz says so I can go through all

00:08:31.880 the racks and that is just not accessible for a lot of people exactly and today I'm actually

00:08:37.060 wearing fast fashion so short horror i'm like up here preaching about it but i'm wearing it so um

00:08:42.920 i'm wearing shoes from sports girl that i don't even remember when i got them a couple years old

00:08:47.040 my shorts are from h&m again maybe three years old my blazer is h&m like it's very tempting to

00:08:56.080 shop fast fashion um my shirt though is from abch world which is a local melbourne ethical label

00:09:03.320 they're great um but something that like you've taught me a lot mags yes um is that we kind of

00:09:13.540 need to shift the narrative from I can't afford fast fashion like I was a uni student only last

00:09:19.200 year you're still a uni student um and shifting the narrative from like I can't afford ethical

00:09:26.080 labels rather but putting those like 40 dollar you know shirts and shorts I think this blazer

00:09:32.240 was like 50 like adding them up and then investing in ethical fashion is like a mindset shift for

00:09:38.340 people who can afford it like you know people middle class or whatever and that's something

00:09:44.220 that you've I think taught a lot of people and it's good yeah and I think the purpose of today

00:09:51.800 as well is not to put like any blame on consumers at all we're mainly talking about the brands

00:09:56.680 themselves and what they're doing and what they're saying so I find it interesting because I'm a gen

00:10:01.800 we're kind of known as like the Greta Thunberg generation when we all care about the environment

00:10:07.060 and it is very pressing and very important so what I absolutely hate is brands that exploit

00:10:13.840 this fear like I'm scared of our future brands know that and then they're going to profit off

00:10:19.160 that um that's what I hate so insidious like that yeah and that's what these like particularly

00:10:25.220 labels like Boohoo and Glassons are doing especially at the moment is making you feel

00:10:29.980 like you're doing the right thing by shopping with them like I said sometimes if I like a piece I'll

00:10:35.980 buy it from H&M but I know that I'm not being sustainable I know that I'm not like helping

00:10:40.740 the environment by doing that but I think the hard part is knowing that these brands are trying to

00:10:47.220 make you feel like you're doing the right thing so even if you're buying like a dress or a shirt

00:10:51.700 they're gonna say like oh we've got recycled fibers so you know you're helping the environment

00:10:56.600 but it's not it's like just be up front I think that's what I dislike the most and why greenwashing

00:11:01.960 is so insidious right now so something that you have done a lot through your platform at yeah mags

00:11:09.540 if anyone wanted to check it out um is actually like asking brands what are their missions and

00:11:16.540 what they're doing for the environment so if anyone's listening and wanted to do that what

00:11:21.400 advice would you give and like what questions can you ask brands if you want to know their ethics

00:11:25.420 I'm honestly a menace every brand like hates me now because I'm such a pest

00:11:30.940 I always love digging around for information so what I do before I even reach out to a brand

00:11:37.240 is scour their website they have a lot of information out there and I usually look at their

00:11:42.140 about page or if they have a sustainability page I'll go through that and look at as much

00:11:47.580 information as I can but I'm usually still left dissatisfied so in true 2021 fashion I will slide

00:11:53.940 into their DMs. And then I'm just happy to ask them almost whatever. Another thing I'd say is

00:12:00.360 also public posts on like Instagram and Twitter are really good to bring public attention. So

00:12:06.200 brands kind of have more pressure to reply. Also emails can be good as well. So you're kind of

00:12:12.140 connected to an expert who knows what they're talking about. But yeah, my big tips for this

00:12:17.500 is tone. I used to be, yeah, again, a menace because I would go into these conversations

00:12:22.700 quite angry and accusatory and brands have become very I guess defensive so what I do now is kind

00:12:30.220 of come to the conversation as a very curious and open customer I kind of like flatter them a little

00:12:35.800 bit I usually start a conversation and this is true I'll be like hey I love your clothes so much

00:12:42.320 before I purchase something I just love to know more about your sustainability and ethics because

00:12:47.940 that's what's important to me i looked on your website and found xyz but i'd actually love to

00:12:53.140 know more about xyz usually about garment workers or stuff like that yeah and then

00:13:00.320 how do you like elaborate on that sometimes they can be quite you know sneaky would you say yeah

00:13:07.920 a lot of the time they'll throw jargon at me or they will um bring up a few certifications so

00:13:14.980 they might just be like yeah we're accredited with xy 300 but of course i don't know what that means

00:13:21.420 and a lot of the time um it's okay to just ask for clarification to like for what they mean it's

00:13:28.440 okay to be like oh hang on uh you've mentioned that you pay your workers fair wages but actually

00:13:33.220 is that a living wage it's okay to ask these questions so because at the end of the day

00:13:37.900 they're trying to sell you a product not the other way around so i guess this kind of flows into the

00:13:43.900 topic of influencer culture. So you have a platform on your Instagram. Social media is a

00:13:50.300 source of income for you. When did you realize that you could earn income from social media in

00:13:54.980 general? Well, I've been on social media for too long. I think I hid my Instagram account from my

00:14:00.260 sister, my mum, for so long. I've been posting outfit photos for almost a decade. And back then,

00:14:06.440 I don't think it was a massive career option. But definitely, recently, it's become such a

00:14:11.780 lucrative industry and I do make most of my income from Instagram now. And it's very interesting

00:14:16.760 because I'm not alone. A lot of people nowadays want this as a job title, hey? Yeah. So speaking

00:14:22.480 of like the greenwashing and influencer culture kind of intersecting, a 2019 British study showed

00:14:30.480 that social media influencer and YouTuber were the second and third dream job amongst children

00:14:35.760 after doctor and before a veterinarian so this is like a very new yeah

00:14:41.040 no one wants to be a vet anymore what's gonna happen

00:14:45.420 so it's a very new industry but it kind of taps into this like insidious which I feel like is the

00:14:54.440 word of the day um influencer market where now not only are the brands like telling you you

00:15:02.540 you buy this it's ethical it's sustainable like spend your money now we also have um influencers

00:15:08.100 who we trust or we're meant to trust um also kind of giving these lukewarm messages about um

00:15:16.740 a brand's practices I guess yeah we're so connected to like influencers and youtubers

00:15:23.880 this day these days like just last week one of my favorite UK youtubers Zoe Sarg um announced

00:15:31.300 So she's pregnant and she's having a baby girl.

00:15:33.500 And I was talking to my friend here in the audience

00:15:35.320 and so many of us literally cried watching that reel.

00:15:39.420 Like this is technically a stranger to us,

00:15:41.660 but we feel so attached.

00:15:43.420 We have these interpersonal relationships

00:15:45.900 with these people who literally don't know who we are.

00:15:48.680 But then that can make you more likely to spend money

00:15:51.820 if you feel like these people are your friends.

00:15:55.620 I read an article on Forbes

00:15:58.200 about the psychology of influencer marketing.

00:16:01.300 And they say that it's perpetuating this pack mentality,

00:16:04.440 which we've always had as humans, like we're social creatures.

00:16:06.780 But like your pack would be your family or like in the past decades,

00:16:12.720 like your closest friends and your peers.

00:16:15.020 But now, like you have, what, 16,000 followers in your pack, you know,

00:16:20.640 and these people trust you.

00:16:22.040 Yeah, it's like in Australia as well, we have such like a vibrant influencer scene.

00:16:27.240 So even if we don't know these people,

00:16:29.880 well, we know what Cardi Milan and Steph Clare Smith had for breakfast.

00:16:33.300 So, of course, we ultimately trust them more.

00:16:36.020 And I saw our pick on Glassons again.

00:16:39.560 So, they've got their new sustainability line

00:16:42.040 and they've partnered with all these incredible influences to promote this.

00:16:45.760 And people I really look up to like Yan Yan Chan and Olive Cook.

00:16:50.640 And a lot of these girls are also kind of in the sustainability space.

00:16:54.380 So, by association, I was like, oh, hang on, wait.

00:16:57.840 Are they actually doing something good?

00:16:59.060 because I see people I trust talk about them.

00:17:01.380 So I do think influencers have, like, a position of power here as well.

00:17:06.200 And a responsibility.

00:17:09.060 Again, we have to say, like, get the check.

00:17:13.420 You do you.

00:17:14.320 If you want to buy fast fashion, buy fast fashion.

00:17:17.080 But don't, I think, don't try to trick people

00:17:20.320 into thinking they're doing a good thing.

00:17:22.600 I do want to ask you about hauls, though.

00:17:25.600 Oh, yeah.

00:17:25.940 because that's something else on social media that we see I love watching a good haul you know

00:17:32.180 monthly faves videos on YouTube or quick TikToks you know showing people's latest purchases so

00:17:38.700 you've been researching this recently haven't you yeah so I'm currently writing an article on this

00:17:43.960 and it's super interesting because it harks back to the influencer kind of discussion of just

00:17:49.520 promoting that consumption but I don't think you're tricking anyone into thinking you're being

00:17:54.280 sustainable with fashion hauls because essentially a haul is if you're not aware um it's a type of

00:18:00.860 content that kind of happened around the 2010s it started um being published um mostly on youtube

00:18:07.280 but then it has now jumped over to instagram and tiktok and it's where someone will show you what

00:18:13.360 they've purchased whether it's like beauty items clothes a lot of the time it's fast fashion and

00:18:18.060 it's promoting that consumption of like normalizing getting a package every day or every week full of

00:18:25.500 clothes that like you just don't need but do you think there can be another side to it do you think

00:18:30.680 that there can be ethical holes oh my god I was gonna ask you this you read my mind because a lot

00:18:35.480 of the people I follow they do like secondhand thrift hauls so it's with secondhand clothes or

00:18:41.220 like slow fashion hauls showing off brands who perhaps are doing good do you think that's

00:18:46.200 unsustainable? I'm just, I just asked you the question that you asked me, hey? Well, that's what

00:18:50.760 we do here. We share the same brain. Yeah, most of the time. I don't know. I think you can have an

00:18:58.080 ethical op shop haul, but then at the end of the day, you're still promoting consumption. But both

00:19:04.680 of us do that, don't we? Yeah, I mean, we're not telling everyone to stop purchasing anything. I

00:19:10.400 mean, we need clothes. We don't want to be naked here on stage. But I do think you can get into

00:19:15.440 murky territory I was someone who was obsessed with op shopping and because everything's so cheap

00:19:20.780 I'll just buy the hell out of the store I just buy unnecessary things things that didn't fit well

00:19:26.500 or anything like that so I do think it can be dangerous I do like um hauls like op shop hauls

00:19:33.900 that take a few months to accumulate like hey this is what I bought over like a six month period not

00:19:39.420 just one day yeah once a week um but I think what's interesting about that as well is sometimes

00:19:45.640 people can justify doing hauls buying a lot of product and saying oh but I'll send it back

00:19:50.740 like once I'm if I don't want it if it's not the right size but did you know that five billion

00:19:55.980 pounds of waste is generated through returns like if you didn't like an ASOS shirt every year they

00:20:02.920 don't have the tools and the procedures to be able to take that shirt you don't want they put it

00:20:08.680 straight into landfill sometimes not every brand but a lot of these brands they don't have the

00:20:12.960 capacity if you're you know millions of people are buying millions of items of clothing how can

00:20:19.160 they get that back make sure there's no stains on it that you haven't actually worn it they it's too

00:20:23.720 much effort they're just going to chuck it in a bin chuck it in landfill um so that was from the

00:20:28.480 bbc just referencing um oh my god i feel so sad i used to do this trick um where you know when you

00:20:35.360 have to spend like a certain amount to get free shipping so if I was purchasing from a store

00:20:39.400 um like fast fashion stores um and let's say I had to spend like 60 bucks I had 40 bucks I was

00:20:44.340 like okay let me just like buy a 20 dollar t-shirt to get the free shipping and then send it back

00:20:49.260 and I feel like that was so naughty but what I what I did do to counter that was um you can

00:20:55.660 sometimes return in stores if that's possible and I'm hoping you won't get returned to landfill

00:21:00.760 sense the landfill there but you can't do that with like asos and iconic and boohoo etc

00:21:06.920 so either way halls influences and the greenwashing from past fashion brands are all

00:21:15.520 contributing to this culture of people thinking they're doing the right thing

00:21:19.800 that they're helping the environment when they're not i think a good rule of thumb is if the brand

00:21:25.680 is producing like if every time you walk into a store and they're producing new clothes you have

00:21:32.700 to think to yourself okay where are those clothes going who's wearing them what are they doing with

00:21:36.340 the stuff they don't want and even if it's made out of like linen or cotton like can that ever

00:21:42.320 be sustainable I don't think so oh I feel like this is a very doom and gloom conversation we're

00:21:47.200 having today and also that like we feel like we're on our soapbox literally like you know

00:21:52.300 ranting about this but we're not perfect either of course we all live in a capitalist society

00:21:58.700 there's no ethical consumption under capitalism we all know that but I think just like taking

00:22:04.420 the time to critically think about what these brands are trying to sell you

00:22:08.920 and being aware of those like buzzword terms of recyclable you know green all those then

00:22:15.940 you'll be more aware of it yeah and I also want to point to a nice kind of uplifting quote I would

00:22:21.400 say so it's by um one of the founders of fashion revolution which is a global non-profit that kind

00:22:27.660 of deals in these matters and she said the most sustainable garment is the one that's already in

00:22:33.720 your wardrobe so we're not here to tell you to go spend thousands of dollars at independent

00:22:39.520 designers but actually also support them um but you know look at what you already own i think

00:22:44.260 that's something that we can learn today i love looking one of my friends danny duncan um from

00:22:49.280 New Zealand she has a great saying where she says shop your own wardrobes not even just like

00:22:54.320 wear your own clothes but kind of be fun like you know look at it with fresh eyes kind of be

00:22:59.160 experimental with it that's what I kind of like doing but it is hard but that's a good sorry to

00:23:06.660 down it again but I'm just like yeah I think that's a good way to think about it actually

00:23:13.300 another thing that just popped into my head as well like we don't talk about this enough because

00:23:17.960 we talk about how we should re-wear our clothes a lot you like wear them for years but what about

00:23:23.100 when you're bloody growing and you don't fit in your clothes I've had to give away like quite a

00:23:26.980 few of my clothes and I'm like oh this doesn't feel that sustainable but that's the reality of

00:23:31.480 it as well we can't there's not like one nice answer fixes everything I think that's the thing 1.00

00:23:37.020 with all like environmental issues we were at an event last night for the nobody times homie 0.93

00:23:43.000 pop up and they had like upcycled you know materials they were doing a great job and then 0.75

00:23:49.220 um there was like some food on the table like we were picking at the food and we're thinking about

00:23:54.660 food waste and not saying that they were going to do that but like we're just thinking about it

00:23:58.980 um and maggie was like but there's no option that's ever 100 perfect unless we live like

00:24:06.220 you know the way we did thousands of years ago there's no one way to be completely perfect and

00:24:12.360 There's a lot of pressure as well to be the, yeah, be perfect with this.

00:24:18.060 But it's a learning process and you just have to do the best you can, I guess.

00:24:23.460 Yeah.

00:24:24.140 Well, now that we've learned what not to do,

00:24:26.780 I would like to welcome Christina from Rosa, Rosa the Label to the stage

00:24:30.980 to talk about her own ethical and sustainable brand.

00:24:34.240 At just 23 years old, she's the owner of a label that's proudly PETA-approved vegan,

00:24:40.620 cruelty free and handmade in Melbourne in small batches so welcome Christina. Hey guys thanks

00:24:47.180 for having me so can you just first of all tell us a little about yourself. Well my name's Christina

00:24:52.980 as Maggie said I'm the founder of Rose Rose of the Label which I started two years ago in March 2019.

00:25:02.520 At uni I studied a Bachelor of Branded Fashion Designer Billy Blue College of Design which was

00:25:08.100 more business focused as opposed to your standard fashion courses that you know focus on construction

00:25:16.100 and making clothes this is more a holistic view which really I thought was really good to have

00:25:20.960 and I'm not sure what else to say about myself. I love that that's pretty good I'm just curious

00:25:27.460 what made you want to start your own fashion label you were 21 when you started sorry I can't get my

00:25:33.340 head around that so I was a major nerd I finished my uni degree in two years because you know I just

00:25:40.360 like when everything hurries up um so I was only 20 when I landed my first design job um at a fast

00:25:47.120 fashion brand actually so 20 years old working in a fast fashion company in design I was pretty

00:25:53.380 happy like it was you know kind of living the dream at that stage my life plan had been working

00:25:58.600 out really well but I was kind of going on my own little journey in terms of veganism sustainability

00:26:06.060 and kind of working out who I wanted to be and what my impact on the world was going to look

00:26:11.660 like for my future and going into work every day and I used to work lots and lots of hours

00:26:19.100 it was kind of becoming apparent that I'm not really working on what I'm trying to be like

00:26:26.980 it's not really agreeing with the lifestyle that I'm trying to promote um being a fast fashion

00:26:31.260 brand and you know contributing to all the waste to all of the slave labor if you would say you

00:26:38.480 know to all of the terrible terrible impacts so that's when I just decided well I don't know much

00:26:45.300 about this but I want to tell people about this I also wanted to create clothes that had my

00:26:50.660 quirkiness of style or something that you know being in my young young 20s something that I

00:26:56.360 would like um because I found at the time a lot of ethical brands not anymore there's lots

00:27:03.060 available now but a lot of ethical brands at that time were very minimal and very simplistic in

00:27:07.820 their design so that's when I just decided hey why don't I just give this a shot so a few months

00:27:13.740 later that's what I did and if you want a sense of Rosa Rosa you're wearing your pants yeah yeah

00:27:20.080 These are the last collection's pants.

00:27:22.020 Yeah.

00:27:23.280 So how does sustainability intersect with your brand?

00:27:26.940 Like how do you make sure that you're sustainable?

00:27:29.560 I would say that since the very beginning,

00:27:32.720 sustainability has always been something that's been important in Rosa Rosa.

00:27:36.120 The main focus of the brand was to be ethical.

00:27:39.620 So to focus on veganism, to focus on small production.

00:27:44.320 So in terms of being sustainable, we, I say we,

00:27:48.240 it's myself and my baby Rosa Rosa it's nobody else but I decided that I wanted to curate really

00:27:55.820 small collections so that everything was really there wasn't high numbers of quantities it was

00:28:01.380 only a certain amount of pieces and once they sold they were never coming back I wanted to make

00:28:05.960 sure that in cutting of these pieces that the fabric design the fabric waste was really really

00:28:11.460 minimal but in terms of sustainability moving forward you know we can never be perfect and

00:28:18.040 last year I was thinking to myself during lockdown what can I do to do more because I don't feel like

00:28:24.140 I'm doing enough so that's when I decided that I think that I can be doing more so why don't I use

00:28:30.400 fabrics that have a longer lifestyle that yeah have a better impact in longevity yeah yeah

00:28:38.100 thank you what materials are they and so I'm going to be using bamboo and hemp because they're

00:28:45.240 supposed to be the most sustainable and then things are always changing there's always new

00:28:49.740 fabrications coming out so I'll definitely be throwing myself into research as to what's the

00:28:54.340 best thing but yeah my new collection coming out in middle of April will be bamboo and hemp based

00:29:01.200 amazing I also want to know being a gen zed hey what has been what has it been like as a young

00:29:10.280 person running your own business I think from the outside it all looks very good that I'm running

00:29:15.440 this business honestly it looks like your life is photo shoots and designing cool clothes and

00:29:20.240 going to events like this the reality is it's really just me at home in my pajamas behind my

00:29:25.140 computer like what should we do but um I guess the thing about being in this generation in

00:29:32.740 comparison to my parents and my grandparents is that they didn't have these types of opportunities

00:29:36.940 that we have today and I think I've just been really lucky to have that yeah like availability

00:29:43.680 to follow my dreams and just decide to do this so it's been really good to throw myself into it I

00:29:49.920 definitely didn't think I would do it this young but I think if I'd planned it a little bit more

00:29:53.660 that it would have had a worse outcome because you end up being in your head or thinking too

00:29:58.040 much and you can never be perfect so learning as you go along is definitely something that I've

00:30:02.420 enjoy doing because you know there's no better way to learn than just to do it and what would

00:30:08.660 you say is the hardest part of running your own sustainable label that's a tricky one but the one

00:30:15.600 that people don't like to talk about is probably the big financial strain um you know manufacturing

00:30:22.520 in australia is really really expensive in comparison to manufacturing overseas um but

00:30:27.900 that's something that was important to me and that I wanted to do so I have I'm sticking by that

00:30:32.880 because there's no better way to be ethical than to do it on your own shore um that comes with

00:30:39.720 financial strain because I wanted my clothing to be accessible to you know my friends and people

00:30:45.080 my age and not people who you know are 10 20 years older with full-time jobs that you know

00:30:51.280 like you were saying before have that income to spend so in terms of margins because I wanted to

00:31:00.400 make it more accessible it was my margins were a lot lower than what other fashion brands are

00:31:05.660 which I'm okay with but in developing the brand I've kind of realized I need to do I need to up

00:31:11.220 them a tiny bit just so that I can keep running Rosa Rosa and we don't have to come to an end

00:31:15.600 but I think that that's okay and I've had a lot of messages from lovely customers saying

00:31:19.960 I just want to ask why they're so cheap like exactly I would and they've been lovely they've

00:31:24.720 said I pay more and I'm just honest because I'm honest about everything I don't think there's any

00:31:28.260 reason to lie because there just isn't why lie you have to be honest especially from a being a brand

00:31:33.280 like all they do is lie really if we've learned anything today exactly all right well how about

00:31:40.800 what has been your favorite part of running Rosa Rosa the label oh there's been too many I've had

00:31:46.660 a really really great first year the second year was in lockdown so it wasn't as eventful but

00:31:52.600 especially seeing people in your clothing that's really weird like oh my god it's so strange like

00:31:58.860 you see someone one time I saw someone walking down the street and I was like hey that's a cute

00:32:02.340 dress wait what the hell that's mine that was so fun as well like you definitely noticed that

00:32:07.580 yeah it's not like a black jacket or something no that was so cool and especially because I was so

00:32:12.300 young and I didn't really think that anybody would wear my clothes I just kind of thought it was a

00:32:16.180 distant thing or when I first started you know all of my friends were so supportive so of course

00:32:20.960 they were wearing it but then when I got my first like random customer I was like hey who's this

00:32:25.780 girl but I've also created really good friendships with a lot of my customers um it's been really

00:32:31.960 really lovely to connect with people who have you know similar values and yeah we connect on

00:32:38.480 on a different level so I actually yeah I'm happy to say that I can call quite a few of them friends

00:32:43.880 now I think that's so sweet you'd never get that experience if you were shopping at Zara right not

00:32:49.260 the CEO of Zara being like oh my god cute customer from Melbourne so I think it is so special to

00:32:56.380 remember that brands brands are made out of made up of people too and seeing like a face behind a

00:33:03.520 small business like yours just kind of reiterates just how important it is to support local I know

00:33:08.780 we kind of use those buzz terms a lot but it's like having you literally in front of me I'm like

00:33:14.400 yeah like let's support her I love that thank you and if someone was listening who wanted to start

00:33:21.120 their own ethical label what advice would you give them probably just work out what morals are true

00:33:27.140 to you and stick to them because it can be very easy to want to please everybody but at the end

00:33:32.280 of the day you've got to do what's right to you um and yeah you can't do everything but you also

00:33:39.020 at the same time you've just got to jump in there and do it because I never thought I would be doing

00:33:42.640 this and all of a sudden here I am who would have thought I would have been sitting here today with

00:33:45.760 you girls so yeah just jump in and do it because you never get a second chance or you will get a

00:33:51.240 second chance but the chance is today do it now yeah do it I love that and what is on the card

00:33:58.040 to you this year so as i briefly touched on um in the middle of april i'm going to be launching

00:34:04.720 this our new collection which is very sustainability focused and from there onwards

00:34:10.000 continuing to acknowledge that um also it's our second birthday today um thank you so i'm also

00:34:18.920 having a big birthday sale on our website just to you know thank everybody for everything that

00:34:24.600 they've done and supported me so far so yeah I kind of want to go back to a thing you were talking

00:34:29.200 about before about your parents and your grandparents and how they didn't have the

00:34:33.300 opportunities that you have today but I also think it's interesting that like our generation and I

00:34:39.600 guess depending on how young your parents are like are the first generation of having this like

00:34:43.340 hyper consumerism and those fast fashion labels like for your grandparents I'm sure everything

00:34:48.460 was sustainable to an extent everything was slower and like you'd go to your local like

00:34:53.700 seamstress or whatever what do you think of that when you're talking to your family like do they

00:34:58.540 find what you're doing interesting or I think so I think it's kind of been in the what last 10 20

00:35:04.360 years that fast fashion has really been a thing right and I think for my mum now she understands

00:35:09.700 because I've explained to her and she's watching everything that I'm doing you know the reasons why

00:35:14.380 but also on the other end she never even thought about it she thought oh wow clothes are so much

00:35:18.600 cheaper than they used to be or in terms of tvs or microwaves or you know house things like they're

00:35:24.160 so much cheaper than they used to be so that's a great thing but actually knowing your impact is

00:35:29.040 something that i don't think we've ever had the privilege of knowing before because especially

00:35:32.920 back then unless it was your local milkman or whatever you wouldn't really know where it was

00:35:38.060 coming from yeah so yeah on the topic of family as well do you want to explain um the name like

00:35:43.820 your reasoning between Rosa Rosa the label um so my grandmother's name is Rosina and I never got

00:35:49.040 to meet her um she was my mum's mum and I just feel like I have a very strong connection with

00:35:54.160 her so my middle name's Rosa as well so just in honor of her that's so sweet I love that and like

00:36:00.560 again we wouldn't have known that if you weren't you know uh if you want a smaller brand or

00:36:05.740 independent I should say and I also want to ask you what are your hopes I guess for the future of

00:36:12.580 the like independent local Australian fashion industry what do you hope to see I think I've

00:36:18.680 seen a big change especially since starting Rosa Rosa I think those two years there's just been a

00:36:24.180 massive shift in awareness and I think that that's just so great to see I think I would just love to

00:36:30.160 see it progress and continue and I hate greenwashing and seeing all those big brands but at the same

00:36:36.940 time it is kind of good that they're pushing because they know that they have to do that to

00:36:41.360 stay current like I think it's so good that everyone knows that that's the latest thing

00:36:45.740 and that hopefully it'll be a very long lasting thing yeah that's something we didn't really talk

00:36:50.180 about as well as like is it good that they're doing that because we've just been like no like

00:36:54.840 this is awful well no I have like people ask me that quite a bit and I'm quite adamant in saying

00:37:00.920 that I still don't think it's a good thing because it reduces I guess sustainability and like

00:37:06.060 ethicalness as like a token like it's like a little pretty badge you can put on but it's actually not

00:37:10.260 making any real change so I do understand that it's good that we're talking more about sustainability

00:37:16.160 but I think if it's under like a false facade like that it's still doing more harm than good

00:37:21.860 again another downer yeah I think I agree well I think that's everything we've covered like

00:37:27.940 a lot gone on a few rants so we hope you enjoyed it today we hope you learned something new

00:37:33.540 if you want to hear more of us we're at culture club pod on instagram and also culture club on

00:37:40.400 wherever you get your podcasts yes and where can we find you christina if we want to get

00:37:44.960 our hands on some threads like yours at rosa the label on instagram and website and facebook of

00:37:50.780 course and we'd also just like to thank melbourne fashion festival for having us and fashion journal

00:37:55.380 for supporting us through our whole careers we were both interns there and now here we are so

00:38:00.260 thanks to fashion journal as well for having us today thanks for listening everyone

Culture Club - March 15, 2021

Greenwashing, Ugh As If! LIVE at Melbourne Fashion Festival

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