Culture Club - The Disney Curse

00:00:00.000 Dua Lipa sparks a conversation about internalised misogyny, Billie Eilish reveals a new hairstyle

00:00:13.160 and Teen Vogue removes new editor-in-chief over anti-Asian comments.

00:00:18.680 We're Jasmine and Maggie and you're listening to Culture Club, our weekly chat about pop

00:00:23.460 culture, current affairs, the internet and our lives.

00:00:26.940 we acknowledge that the Wurundjeri and Boon Wurrung people are the traditional custodians

00:00:33.500 of the land upon which we live work and record this podcast we would like to pay our respects

00:00:39.220 to elders past present and emerging always was always will be aboriginal land

00:00:46.040 let's just chat jazz because it has been a while since we've been sitting in our respective like

00:00:54.600 bedrooms or studies recording this um last week we of course had our melbourne fashion festival

00:01:01.120 live show which was so much fun thank you to the friends who came down and you know culture club

00:01:08.500 listeners i think there were a few of you there which was so nice to see um we had heaps of fun

00:01:14.220 it was pretty nerve-wracking though if you can't tell in um last week's episode yeah it's been so

00:01:19.680 long since we've recorded it's so weird um I'm so comfortable back in our bedroom I like it I like

00:01:24.880 it not in front of a stage anymore in like boots and a jumper rather than yeah heels but yeah it

00:01:32.820 was such a great opportunity to have that platform like literally a platform on a stage yeah on our

00:01:39.020 soapbox um so we hope that whoever listened enjoyed it and you learned something and it

00:01:44.940 wasn't too ranty and speaking of stages of course the grammys were on last week um did you catch any

00:01:52.400 of it of course we got to talk about the fashion as well yes i came home and i caught the part

00:01:57.720 where taylor swift won um for best album and yeah it was amazing it was interesting that it was

00:02:05.140 physical i didn't expect that i thought it was going to be all just like it was distance but i

00:02:09.140 thought it would be digital so I think they only had the like nominees in the room not anyone else

00:02:15.000 like no bonuses so we only got like a handful of celebrity style but I mean that Harry Styles

00:02:20.420 performance and outfits is enough to keep us going for a few months so I totally want to know

00:02:28.500 Harry Lambert his stylist his reasoning for the feather boas I love them but so random don't you

00:02:35.340 think so out of the woodwork you would not have picked that as a 2021 spring summer accessory

00:02:40.700 yeah but also I don't think it's surprising for Harry Styles I think it do you reckon also pays

00:02:46.960 homage to the fact that he wore a scarf for his audition oh and Ashley Tisdale has always been the

00:02:54.320 prototype maybe that's actually a cute reference and possibly I didn't even remember that he wore

00:03:00.800 a scarf so of course you're the better fan here this is going to be a new era everyone's saying

00:03:07.240 that fine line is over and is it going to be like a more rock album he was wearing like all leather

00:03:12.340 people saying he's very inspired by Freddie Mercury from Queen so he's going to take on that

00:03:18.460 more like that direction it'll be exciting to see and we've spoken about this before but those

00:03:24.980 pictures of him with Lizzo like hugging backstage so cute many memes were made and I saw a TikTok

00:03:31.860 again about the comparison of um you know if he had been taken a picture like that like snuggling

00:03:39.100 up to a white slim celebrity would there be more dating rumors if it was with Olivia Wilde would it

00:03:45.040 be like confirmation that they're actually together so we've spoken about that a few

00:03:48.920 episodes ago but that was more content that came out of it what else that's so true I didn't even

00:03:55.400 think about that I didn't even it didn't even clock with me because I'm like oh cute besties

00:03:59.560 um so I'm always glad to be pulled up on that being like hang on why do I think like this

00:04:04.620 um okay no sorry all I want to talk about is Dua Lipa so what when so when this episode is live

00:04:12.140 I would have we would have posted a collage of her on Culture Club I was like obsessed like

00:04:17.380 on my laptop yesterday just cutting out images of her and like pasting it all together homage to

00:04:23.420 the queen like jazz I like literally I'm starstruck oh my god that performance that performance I know

00:04:30.760 we're getting ugly well there's I saw some tweets that were saying like bullying Dua Lipa into

00:04:35.900 performing well is one of the best things we ever did because I don't know if you remember but a few

00:04:40.180 years ago she was performing and people were like yes queen give us nothing because her dancing just

00:04:47.000 like wasn't up to scratch to people's standards I guess so she came out and she killed it and

00:04:52.320 yeah people on the internet have been praising her a lot of people saying it was a tough night

00:04:57.420 for their sexuality and I agree yes she looked stunning so yeah go girl yeah it was too much

00:05:04.300 to say the least I'm like still still thinking about it I also love how much she embraced like

00:05:12.020 pink and femininity so she was wearing she had like three or four outfit changes and they all 1.00

00:05:18.940 featured pink bedazzled I think a lot of them were hand like hand jeweled as well she had a

00:05:24.980 behind the scenes video of people making her blazer and it was so intricate so beautiful

00:05:31.120 but I do like how um I guess that style can sometimes be like oh that's too feminine or

00:05:38.720 that's kind of girlish or childish but she just kind of embraced it all and looked amazing well

00:05:45.260 it's 2021 and we know that femininity doesn't have to be you know you don't have to only be

00:05:51.000 perceived one way because you're dressing more feminine i think that's one of my biggest pet

00:05:55.900 like i love pink so much and i always it always annoyed me when people would think like oh i can't

00:06:02.140 wear pink or i hate glitter like to each their own of course you don't have to like those things but

00:06:06.280 don't like make me feel bad for like expressing my femininity or my creativity or whatever through

00:06:12.960 my outfits through like dresses and skirts and stuff like just because you wear those things

00:06:16.900 doesn't mean that you're not smart this is going a different direction but with the rise of like 0.99

00:06:21.300 bimboism 2.0 that's a new thing as well of like just because you dress pink and glittery doesn't 1.00

00:06:27.400 mean that you don't have something to say with this bimboism that you're talking about um are 0.81

00:06:31.400 you talking about like reality tv stars and the way we view them or more so um i know on tiktok 1.00

00:06:38.120 there's been a rise of bimbo so they're playing into the character of the like paris hilton and 0.87

00:06:43.640 nicole ritchie of like the early 2000s where it's like very airhead they just act like they're hot

00:06:50.120 and they are hot and i don't know i haven't like researched as well enough to really talk about it

00:06:54.400 but now they're like still walking around like dressed really like bimbo-y which is isn't seen

00:06:59.900 as a negative thing anymore is what I'm trying to say on the internet it's seen as like just a way 0.67

00:07:03.800 of being and just because you're dressing that way they're still kind of like politically aware

00:07:08.960 they're like aware of their femininity and they're using it in a different way yes and I so agree I

00:07:14.380 feel like that's kind of sad that we're still having these conversations because I battled with

00:07:18.960 my own internalized misogyny still am of course but in primary school would never touch pink dresses

00:07:24.900 skirts and of course over the past few years i've totally embraced that and it's sad that people

00:07:30.500 can't see that you can be multifaceted and be hot and smart like it feels kind of silly even saying

00:07:38.400 it did you see this tiktok um i'm gonna play a little bit now there's way too much emphasis on

00:07:43.800 looks when it comes to building confidence because some of you guys have not read a book in years

00:07:48.680 don't know how to do your taxes have no sense of identity outside of the internet and can't speak

00:07:53.740 in public and yet every morning there you are looking at yourself in your full-length ikea

00:07:58.340 mirror going you're so hot you're the prettiest girl in the world okay and even if that were true

00:08:06.600 and let's be honest who cares i also want to mention because uh for listeners listening to

00:08:13.600 that she is conventionally pretty as well it just feels quite one note and i guess hating on things 0.99

00:08:20.400 that typically women enjoy like looking pretty maybe doing makeup taking selfies it's interesting

00:08:26.940 because i first saw this on flex mommy's story and i was like oh my god called out a lot of my

00:08:31.800 hobbies are to do with the internet i think later on in the tiktok she said something like get a

00:08:37.360 hobby outside media consumption i'm like oh my god that's so me right i've seen some discourse

00:08:42.300 about that on the internet i've seen some reaction videos to it and i just didn't get it when i first

00:08:47.560 saw it and she said who cares i thought that she was saying like who cares that you're only hot

00:08:52.580 i thought she was saying we don't have to have other hobbies or be conventionally smart to 0.99

00:08:59.040 be attractive but it's the opposite um and i think we've just moved past that in feminism 1.00

00:09:04.860 let women do what they want to do if they don't care about hobbies if they only if their only 1.00

00:09:10.280 hobby is uploading videos of themselves to tiktok which is also her job like she's a creator so 1.00

00:09:17.200 she's kind of like playing herself leave women alone god well said and honestly um when we're

00:09:26.000 talking about thriving in a capitalist system and making money one of the best ways and i guess 1.00

00:09:33.020 not easiest but one of the ways a woman can become financially successful is becoming let's say like 1.00

00:09:41.920 a content creator or entering these realms of influencing which again are very much typically 1.00

00:09:48.560 female orientated and if she's like don't do it like read a book or something instead well it's

00:09:55.160 bloody hard as we know careers that are like engineering and science maybe are like male 1.00

00:10:01.920 dominated so it is hard for women to succeed in like traditional roles like that as well that

00:10:08.720 those are massive generalizations so i obviously i'm not questioning the skill set of women i'm 0.98

00:10:14.700 just saying just statistically it's harder to build yourself up in those careers yeah that 0.99

00:10:20.220 went on a tangent that we didn't expect but we love when that happens if you've seen that tiktok

00:10:24.320 maybe we'll post it on our story so you can actually watch it yourself so you know what

00:10:27.920 we're talking about let women do what they want to do thank you

00:10:31.340 and in a very light-hearted new story that i think we all kind of needed this week billy 0.90

00:10:41.740 eilish changed her hair color she went from her very famous black hair with the neon green roots

00:10:47.640 that she's had since 2019 to a bleach blonde hairdo it basically broke the internet broke

00:10:55.560 Instagram it was the record for the fastest to 1 million likes in six minutes at the time of

00:11:01.560 recording it has over 20 million likes which is almost everyone in Australia which is crazy

00:11:06.360 imagine posting a picture of your hair and getting that many likes I posted a picture when I got a

00:11:11.740 fringe and it was my most liked picture like ever and I was like oh my god like people who haven't

00:11:17.620 liked any of my pictures for like years who I didn't even know were following me was were

00:11:22.680 liking and commenting it and I think hair really it's like a new you new chapter I'm happy for her

00:11:28.600 yeah I'm happy for her too and I don't think it was just her hair that kind of changed as well so

00:11:35.120 before that record-breaking photo she posted a little cute video of her flipping back her hair

00:11:41.460 with some kind of 60s music in the background and she was wearing a 60s style white cardigan as well

00:11:46.820 um so it's very much different to her usual edgy street wear vibe that we usually get from her

00:11:53.600 it's also very interesting because we fans of billy kind of already knew that she was going

00:11:59.440 to change her hairstyle she announced it back in december in an ig live that she was changing

00:12:04.820 up her hair after her documentary came out the quote from her is i'm changing it after the dot

00:12:10.420 comes out it will be the end of an era i'm going to give you a new era the process took about six

00:12:16.260 weeks to complete so that's why she was wearing a wig and a few people on tiktok already thought

00:12:21.260 that it was a wig there are all these conspiracy theory videos coming out which is really funny

00:12:26.060 i think she looks great it's like a mullet fringe vibe good for her what do you think

00:12:33.020 about the timing of it though because we did receive a dm from a listener this picture came

00:12:39.560 out like the day after the atlanta shooting which we'll discuss later you know a lot of people on

00:12:44.440 instagram been talking about anti-asian hate and someone pointed out that like that could have been

00:12:49.800 a good platform for her to speak about those issues what do you think about that do you think

00:12:54.400 that every post needs to be political not saying that like racism shouldn't be political but like

00:13:01.360 do you think everything has to be topical or do you think that women are allowed to talk about

00:13:06.300 their hair when they want to talk about their hair i have a lot of mixed reactions to this because

00:13:11.260 a big part of me is I don't think there has been enough support from non-Asian communities

00:13:18.840 especially from larger celebrities I haven't seen that much but then of course on the flip side

00:13:25.100 I would never expect anyone to just post about it just to look woke or whatever sometimes to be

00:13:31.900 honest I saw a few story shares and I just kind of rolled my eyes at fellow like influencers or

00:13:38.780 whoever posted on the story because it just kind of felt ingenuine it was like one quick slide and

00:13:43.140 then I'll continue my makeup haul but can I also mention there my stories definitely looked like

00:13:49.440 that during this horrific time as well I feel like mourning can come in different forms and

00:13:56.240 I don't want everyone to be forced to publicly show their rage or their sadness how about you

00:14:02.600 what do you feel about this I think that she's a teenage girl and she's allowed to you know post

00:14:09.420 what she wants when she wants and I think we have to be careful about policing Instagram activism

00:14:15.700 because Instagram isn't the only way that you can like be a good citizen and show your support but

00:14:22.860 I do understand the thinking of like she has a huge huge platform to get 20 million likes is like

00:14:28.300 crazy you know but i don't know has she posted anything since i think that we can have nuance

00:14:34.600 just in the way that the other day obviously you were posting lots of articles and resources and

00:14:39.140 stuff but then in between that you had like your pr gifts that you were given and like yeah you're

00:14:43.480 going out for dinner with friends like we're multifaceted i also think that's when it can

00:14:47.320 become like trendy like a new cycle of instagram resources and i think that's damaging i think she

00:14:54.740 should enjoy her hair and looks good yeah no i agree um and we never know what people are doing

00:15:00.200 behind the scenes billy herself was very outspoken during um black lives matter resurgence back in

00:15:06.500 june so you know that's yeah i would i don't expect everyone to just post about something i

00:15:13.660 feel like that diminishes the issue at hand and i like how you mentioned my own um instagram as

00:15:20.080 well because of course being a member of the Asian community I have found this week especially

00:15:26.520 tough and having those moments of like reprive going out for dinner with friends going out and

00:15:33.960 you know not thinking about this has been helpful and I don't want to be drowned like well honestly

00:15:39.240 if I'm being honest and we'll talk more about this later like yesterday I was drowned in these

00:15:43.360 emotions and like that was not good like that you know like you don't this is not good for people to

00:15:48.560 be in those states all the time. So don't hurt me if I want to just look at Billy's new hair and

00:15:56.680 enjoy that, you know? Before we start this section, we would just like to put a content warning here

00:16:06.060 for addiction and sexual assault. Former Disney star Demi Lovato has created a four-part

00:16:13.980 documentary series titled Dancing with the Devil. So if you're unaware, back in July 2018,

00:16:20.520 just one month after releasing her song Sober, Demi relapsed and overdosed on opioids. After some

00:16:28.340 time out of the spotlight and some more rehab, Demi is now ready to tell her story and her battle

00:16:34.240 with addictions. So this will actually be coming out on YouTube and it will be free and it will

00:16:40.780 be coming out Tuesday the 23rd which is actually the day that this episode is released so hopefully

00:16:46.160 we'll have some more details later on. So in the docuseries it's revealed that Demi only had five

00:16:52.920 to ten minutes to live after her overdose and before her assistant found her. She suffered

00:16:59.300 three strokes and a heart attack. When she first came back to consciousness she was declared legally

00:17:05.120 blind and now has blind spots in her vision so she can't drive which is just awful awful awful

00:17:11.780 the trailer reveals that she was addicted to heroin the drug dealer sexually assaulted her 0.92

00:17:17.200 on the night of her overdose and that her first sexual experience losing her virginity was to a

00:17:25.260 in her own words we'll just play a little bit here i've had a lot of lives like my cat you know i'm

00:17:30.820 on my ninth leg I'm ready to get back to doing what I love which is making music I'm not living

00:17:35.980 my life for other people or their headlines or their twitter comments bye

00:17:39.360 the trailer was so full-on it had so many intense themes and of course the way it was edited was

00:17:52.940 very dramatic as well and when she was talking about the drug dealer who raped her I think her

00:17:59.840 quote was he left me for dead left her literally naked apparently turning blue as well it was

00:18:08.340 really disturbing to listen to and I think one of the biggest revelations from this as well is that

00:18:14.920 yeah she lost her virginity to rape and I think she mentioned that that was when she was 15 years

00:18:21.300 old and she also said that was someone she knew as a teenager and also she had to continue to see him

00:18:28.660 i think in a work sense i think it kind of alluded to a fellow actor or someone in that realm god

00:18:35.400 so i think this series is incredibly brave to be able to share a documentary like that only a

00:18:41.660 couple years after all of that trauma is so and to share it with the world like demi was huge on

00:18:48.100 disney channel like she was part of the club with she was on barney with selena gomez um she did

00:18:54.340 movies with selena she was obviously camp rock with the jonas brothers around the time of miley

00:18:58.820 cyrus like she was such an icon she still is in her own way and it reminds me a lot of the

00:19:06.740 discussions we've been having recently about britney spears and amanda binds and all those

00:19:10.960 disney stars where it's real you realize the pressures they were under the fact that they

00:19:17.840 didn't get to have a childhood being like that famous at such a young age like it must screw

00:19:23.560 with your brain and oftentimes especially when it comes to drug addictions we don't hear these

00:19:28.880 stories until after they've died like in the case of say Amy Winehouse obviously not a Disney star

00:19:36.400 but like she has the documentary Amy and you hear the circumstances and her struggles after the fact

00:19:45.060 and I think it's really brave that Demi has come out and said all of this now and is being like a

00:19:51.820 face for addiction. Yeah. To add onto that, I was scrolling through Facebook and I saw that

00:19:58.320 Caroline Flack also has a documentary coming out and seeing so many comments of support on people

00:20:05.000 on Facebook. And I kid you not, all the sentiments were around, how can someone be so mean to someone

00:20:10.360 on the internet? How can someone say these things about someone they don't know? Like,

00:20:14.200 this is truly horrible, et cetera, et cetera. And I saw these maybe a week ago. So at the height of

00:20:20.320 the Meghan Markle interview. And I just was like, that is so pathetic because people are continuing 0.84

00:20:28.800 to do this now. And yeah, you're right. People only feel apologetic when someone's dead. That's 0.98

00:20:34.760 it. But this isn't Demi's first documentary, right? She's had a few in the past. So she

00:20:40.720 has a lot to say, obviously. Yeah. So she's had one most recently in 2017

00:20:45.880 called Simply Complicated and the one before that was in 2012 which was called Stay Strong

00:20:52.400 and 2012 was like only got a couple of years like one or two years after like her big Disney

00:20:59.100 films and stuff so that's very interesting but I think this is very different it's very

00:21:04.780 raw revealing I mean she nearly died it'll be interesting to hear what else comes out of it

00:21:12.540 I mean, the trailer's given people such insight into, like, what happened.

00:21:17.100 I just hope she's okay and she's, like, getting the help she needs.

00:21:19.740 It is scary looking in from the outside, looking at these celebrity lives.

00:21:23.700 Like, I would never want to trade places with any of these people.

00:21:27.340 It just sounds so scary and it looks like you have no control over your life.

00:21:34.020 Of course, we've just watched a Britney documentary

00:21:36.080 and there are so many coming out at the moment and it's just really scary.

00:21:42.540 When I was reading about this, there's a phenomenon called the Disney curse, which you may have heard about.

00:21:48.560 The curse is kind of, it makes it seem like it's only Disney stars, but really it's like the psychological effects of being a child star in general.

00:21:56.340 So you've got like Macaulay Culkin, who was the Home Alone boy.

00:21:59.860 He's like battled with drug addiction.

00:22:02.780 Justin Bieber, Miley.

00:22:05.560 Miley is Disney, but you get the gist.

00:22:07.360 it's like the psychological effects of being owned at such a young age and i read an article by

00:22:14.180 mara wilson who is the child star from matilda and mrs doubtfire who now speaks out about this

00:22:21.100 kind of stuff and she was saying that she is so grateful that her parents like were there for her

00:22:28.240 and like they controlled a lot of her money and they weren't in it for the wrong reasons i think

00:22:34.120 a lot of the time parents like we saw in the britney documentary can get wrapped up in the

00:22:38.540 celebrity and the fame and the money and then they start exploiting their own children even if their

00:22:43.420 intentions were good in the very beginning and i don't know if demi will like speaks about her

00:22:48.000 parents at all but you're basically signing away your child's life but then again if your child

00:22:53.520 was like begging you like i want to be an actress i want to be a singer like this is my dream i've

00:22:59.980 dreamt of being a pop star and you're like no you know it's a hard choice i guess to like deny your

00:23:08.080 kids that is there any way you can be like a a child star without damaging yourself i think

00:23:13.600 hillary duff is like the only person i know that well even she had battles like she had battles of 0.97

00:23:18.860 eating disorders and she dated um joel from good charlotte and he was heaps older than her when she

00:23:26.420 was a teenager things like that which obviously isn't her fault but she's been through it as well

00:23:31.340 i don't know i would say billy eilish comes to mind back in this episode um i haven't watched

00:23:38.040 her new documentary but i've watched a lot of youtube videos about her and her parents

00:23:42.440 are so supportive and you can tell how scared they are of losing her to the industry and i think

00:23:49.560 it's made her stay really grounded she still lives in her parents home and it is really great to see

00:23:55.920 that network I think we have briefly touched on before but it's going to be very interesting to

00:24:01.000 see how the lives of TikTok stars and young YouTubers pan out especially in the case of

00:24:07.040 like the D'Amelios and Addison Rae a lot of their parents are characters in their lives in a way like

00:24:14.880 they have gotten a secondary taste of fame from it and they've I don't know they're part of the

00:24:21.380 limelight which is an interesting factor to also consider yeah addison ray released a single

00:24:26.760 yesterday oh my god really yeah so she's getting into music um but i saw a video the other day of

00:24:32.600 charlie d'amelio like on a couch with her parents and her sister and all of a sudden her hands like

00:24:37.800 start shaking and someone was like she's having a panic attack but someone else was like oh that's

00:24:41.960 what happens when you vape and you have coffee um but her parents are sitting right there in this

00:24:45.940 interview and charlie is 15 16 and she starts like shaking and it's like yeah they're becoming

00:24:51.080 this like reality tv show for sure can you protect your children when you're also in the vortex of

00:24:56.940 that industry and you're getting like thousands of dollars per video you know so hopefully this can

00:25:03.360 this documentary will help like a lot of people who are also struggling with addiction

00:25:07.000 i think it's great that she's sharing her story and we hope that she's getting the help she needs

00:25:12.720 well well well if it isn't Condé Nast back in the headlines it has been kind of a thrilling

00:25:24.160 couple of weeks for Teen Vogue one of their big publications that is known for being progressive

00:25:30.740 and political and is aimed at of course judging by the name a younger demographic so this month

00:25:37.980 Teen Vogue had appointed a new editor-in-chief, Alexi McCammon. But after this announcement,

00:25:44.920 a lot of stuff happened. She was called out for her past racist and homophobic comments and tweets

00:25:52.100 after over 20 Teen Vogue staffers circulated a letter condemning her and not wanting her to be

00:25:58.400 the new editor-in-chief. In social media comments, a lot of Teen Vogue's readers also shared the

00:26:04.380 same sentiment among the tweets alexi said after returning from a party as a 17 year old college

00:26:10.420 freshman she was googling to find out how to avoid waking up with quote asian eyes in another tweet 0.98

00:26:17.340 she complained about a quote stupid asian teaching assistant who had only given her a two out of ten 0.99

00:26:24.200 on a chemistry quiz and in another she complained about being beaten out by an asian student so 0.99

00:26:32.380 very like obviously racist but also um it wasn't just one off comment it was like multiple about

00:26:43.340 asian people it wasn't just a one-off incident actually a few of these tweets spanned over a

00:26:49.400 couple years as well and you know that wasn't that long ago she's 27 years old now which is still

00:26:56.100 young but you know when i was 17 years old i know my friends wouldn't have made those comments you

00:27:01.660 know i think 13 14 also feels a little bit different but just 17 you know i just don't

00:27:07.160 think that that's that young yeah and it's not like a 17 year old in year 11 in australia it's

00:27:13.160 like a 17 year old freshman so first year of uni you should definitely know when you're being racist

00:27:18.640 in university this was like quite big news in the media industry and also because it came

00:27:23.800 alexi's appointment came after lindsey peoples wagner who has moved to the cut she is a black

00:27:32.060 journalist she was doing great things for teen vogue she's considered like the reason why

00:27:37.040 it has become the kind of gen z publication that is today so i think a lot of the readers

00:27:44.680 and other journalists in the industry felt duped is because it had gone from being this like

00:27:51.560 very progressive black woman to another black woman we have to say that Alexei is BIPOC but

00:28:00.580 she's been racist to Asians so you know you can't be a leader of a company like that a publication

00:28:08.000 like that and not expect a backlash of some sort. Yeah it's an interesting one I was having this

00:28:14.440 conversation because I feel like we talk about cancel culture a lot and whether the actions

00:28:20.540 justify the I guess accountability that's been taken so if we look at it she's posted a few

00:28:28.680 tweets that are racist but oh god I hate that I'm trying to justify it because in my head I'm like

00:28:35.580 oh but they're kind of light-hearted and not the worst right and she was she made a lot of news

00:28:42.900 last year because she was covering um the Biden campaign so she's done a lot of work in the

00:28:47.900 political sphere she actually mentioned it herself it was kind of grosser in her apology she was like

00:28:54.340 my past tweets have overshadowed the work I've done to highlight the people and issues that I

00:28:59.560 care about etc etc that was actually part of her resignation sorry like that that's a thing it's

00:29:05.180 like can someone's work negate the bad comments they've made in the past is that the end of her

00:29:12.900 career it's pretty rough hey do you think that people should be punished for saying

00:29:17.660 punished for something they said 10 years later yeah I mean the other thing is her apology that

00:29:23.260 she put out for this this also didn't really feel like an apology she didn't really apologize for

00:29:28.980 this I think she was like I apologize in the past for these comments but didn't really own it so I

00:29:35.980 do think it's less about the apology might be the steps taken afterwards to rectify this and I don't

00:29:42.040 know much I don't know much of the work she's done in terms of Asian Americans and stuff like 0.89

00:29:47.580 that so I am not one to completely burn bridges and be like nah I'm never going to listen to her

00:29:54.380 again I just want more than like a dodgy iPhone note apology and stuff I read a comment from

00:30:03.160 someone that was like when she posted her resignation and Teen Vogue posted their 1.00

00:30:07.020 resignation post someone was like this isn't enough I was like whoa she's just lost her job 0.89

00:30:12.820 like she's not going to be this you know leader of a magazine anymore but like should she what I

00:30:21.080 don't know what else do you want her to do also there was some comments about her apology because

00:30:26.740 she said that in her journalism work she tries to be a voice for the voiceless which is a problematic

00:30:32.880 term because it's like we should just be giving those they have voices people like minority

00:30:38.800 groups have voices they just haven't been given the space to talk about them so that's kind of

00:30:43.300 an outdated saying but you know i also do feel like my own uncertainty and hesitancy with how

00:30:51.660 this has gone down might be to do with the fact that is it it is about asians who have so often

00:30:59.440 become the butt of jokes if we swapped around her comments i understand that she is a black woman 1.00

00:31:04.320 but if we swapped it around with black people you know like oh like my stupid black teacher 1.00

00:31:09.900 blah blah blah that sort of rhetoric i feel like everyone would be like yep she's cancelled 1.00

00:31:14.920 immediately no question no further questions yeah but i feel like this just makes it because it's

00:31:21.140 so normalized in our bloody world and of course asians are seen as a model minority who kind of

00:31:26.480 thrive and and some of our stereotypes are that we're smart so is that really a bad thing like

00:31:32.180 people always question that but no it's still a stereotype that you're perpetuating that kind of

00:31:38.420 just makes us seem less than a human because we're essentially just like a character to you

00:31:43.180 and and that's an interesting one yeah you're right and like would it also have been different

00:31:49.980 if Alexi was a white woman yeah it would be different but like yeah I just think this is a

00:31:56.100 interesting kind of point for Teen Vogue and Condé Nast as well and people aren't people are

00:32:03.700 so aware of these issues nowadays and if they think you're being performative in any way like

00:32:08.480 you'll know about it we'll post the apologies on our Instagram so you can read them for yourself

00:32:15.240 if you'd like to it'll be interesting to see as well who is going to be appointed now there's

00:32:19.920 going to be a lot of pressure to see who is going to be the new editor-in-chief of Teen Vogue

00:32:24.800 There are so many great options out there though, so I am glad that it will hopefully

00:32:29.820 go into the hands of someone who can continue Teen Vogue's legacy.

00:32:38.540 The racism story at Teen Vogue had already been happening for a few days when a horrific

00:32:44.600 shooting occurred in America this week.

00:32:47.600 Eight people were tragically murdered as a white man went on a rampage at three spas

00:32:54.040 in Atlanta, Georgia. The shootings took the lives of six women of Asian descent and have caused a

00:33:01.920 lot of trauma and fear in the Asian American community. Yeah, it's been a really hard few days

00:33:12.240 and I especially feel for any Asian American listeners who might be listening at the moment,

00:33:18.120 can't imagine the pain that everyone is going through. It has been the unfortunate climax of

00:33:23.560 how racism has transpired over the past year actually before this past year but of course

00:33:29.260 COVID has amplified racism to a wild level I feel like it's almost every single day we'll see a new

00:33:36.880 elderly Asian person being attacked in the street now and that is just part of my morning routine

00:33:42.260 so it is really devastating to have this happen and I do want to acknowledge every single one of

00:33:50.940 these eight people whose lives were taken. Sung Chung Park was age 74. Hyun Chung Grant, age 51.

00:34:00.540 Sung Cha Kim, age 69. Yang Ae Yu, age 63. Delaina Ashley Yuan, age 33. Paul Andre Michels, age 54.

00:34:16.020 Xiao Jie Tan aged 49 and Dao Yufeng aged 44. Over the past few days as well we've had more

00:34:25.700 information about these victims and their families and it has been so heartbreaking

00:34:32.000 especially Xiao Jie Tan who was 49. A heartbreaking story came out that her family

00:34:40.660 was gathered to celebrate her 50th birthday as this unfolded and most devastatingly the family

00:34:47.780 couldn't bring themselves to tell Jiaxia's mum that her daughter was dead so instead this is 0.83

00:34:53.980 very much by the way an Asian like that's very much what's what happens in Asian culture this

00:35:00.780 is what Jiaxia's daughter Jamie said she kept asking to talk to my mum we told my grandma that

00:35:07.980 my mum lost her phone and couldn't answer it's really it's really hard to hear these stories

00:35:13.580 and it does a little bit remind me of the movie The Farewell which I would recommend to people

00:35:18.160 if they haven't watched I think we should be centering the victims and their stories and

00:35:25.160 their families rather than the horrific person who did this it's just white supremacy in action

00:35:30.040 and it's awful and I hope that you're also looking after yourself this week thank you

00:35:37.700 And it has been really good to have a community of Asian creatives online who are also feeling similar, I guess, to how I am.

00:35:50.360 So I do want to show some pieces that I resonated with.

00:35:54.900 So one was an IGTV from actress Ashley Park.

00:35:58.700 So she's from Emily in Paris.

00:36:00.800 I'll play a snippet now.

00:36:02.160 Anyway, I came across these words by Min Jin Lee this morning, and I wanted to record them because I was just going to repost it, but I found that I'm drowning in like all of the reposts and articles and la-da-da-da from like the entire year.

00:36:25.740 And sometimes it just is helpful to see a friend or someone I know talk about something because then at least for me, sometimes it feels more real.

00:36:38.640 So Min Jin said, in less than 48 hours, we had a historic Asian Oscar moment with multiple firsts in 93 years, then a mass shooting targeting three Asian owned businesses.

00:36:52.180 this is how terrorism works you're not allowed to feel safe accepted or valued we can resist

00:37:02.380 take up space and make noise another piece I loved was this article by Mahalia Chang for Vogue

00:37:10.980 called we can't talk about anti-Asian racism without talking about misogyny so we actually

00:37:16.280 had the pleasure of having Mahalia read out some of her piece in her own words. So thank you, Mahalia.

00:37:23.480 When you learn about racism when you're younger, it all feels like one uniform concept, the action,

00:37:29.180 not the intent. Some homogenous, one-note, almost standardised hatred of all things not white.

00:37:36.060 But what happens when you get older and experience some of that racism for yourself

00:37:40.100 is you realize the depth and multiplicity of it,

00:37:43.220 how varied, how painfully specific,

00:37:45.840 how magnificently tailored it is to you.

00:37:48.580 A close friend of mine once told me,

00:37:50.560 no one can tell whether you're Chinese or Korean

00:37:52.640 quite like someone who's about to call you a slur.

00:37:55.760 As an Asian woman, what happened in Atlanta 0.94

00:37:57.980 is what racism looks like for me.

00:38:00.620 Not all of it, of course.

00:38:02.700 There's the microaggressions about accents

00:38:04.580 or how good your English is.

00:38:06.380 There's the particularly lazy flavor of 0.99

00:38:08.420 ching-chong-chinaman eye-pulling chopstick gags you get from teenage boys and drunk men at bars. 0.98

00:38:14.120 There's the othering that comes with existing in all white spaces. 0.83

00:38:18.100 But perhaps the most ingrained and insidiously normalized symptom of it is the over-sexualization 0.81

00:38:24.240 of Asian women. This system has both created this perception of Asian women, sexualized without

00:38:30.320 agency, voiceless yet forever available, exotic but with a price, and punish them for it.

00:38:37.040 Robert Aaron Long's specific targeting of massage parlours feels linked without question.

00:38:43.060 Asian women aren't and have never been safe from discrimination and violence.

00:38:47.800 The very way we are viewed in society sets us up like dominoes to fall, inevitable, unavoidable, predestined.

00:38:55.040 So I really loved Mahalia's piece and really resonated with it.

00:39:00.660 And I am actually writing a piece on my own as well and struggling through it.

00:39:05.600 But one thing I do want people to know that these violent murders don't exist in a vacuum

00:39:11.460 and it isn't just white supremacists that we're worried about.

00:39:16.780 It is every asset of our lives that have been, I guess, twisted to fit a Western ideal.

00:39:25.260 It's a way our bodies are used against us.

00:39:27.320 It's a way that people dismiss Asians or minimize us to these stereotypes that we're

00:39:33.800 good at mats or that we wear glasses and that's it it honestly reduces us to less than a human

00:39:40.160 yeah so yeah angry Maggie no thank you for sharing and thanks Mahalia for the words it is very full

00:39:50.680 on and is a continuation of the society we have lived in for hundreds of years it feels like this

00:39:58.620 is a real reckoning for many people and it can feel exhausting you know having these conversations

00:40:07.200 or calling it out being aware of it but what's the alternative this has to change and by you

00:40:16.080 writing pieces like the one you are by sharing about it on instagram hopefully people can realize

00:40:22.580 the stereotypes and the microaggressions that happen that is a domino effect to lead to incidences

00:40:27.760 like what happened in Georgia. Jazz what have you read watched or listened to this week?

00:40:41.660 I feel like over the past few weeks I've had quite serious recommendations and so this week

00:40:47.580 to break up the news cycle I'm recommending the 13th season of the U.S. RuPaul's Drag Race.

00:40:54.480 have you seen it no I have never seen RuPaul's Drag Race ever but I do want to get on the

00:41:00.300 bandwagon I know disappointed in myself so I watched a series a few years ago and then just

00:41:06.400 didn't get back around to it but last night I put on the latest American season from the start

00:41:13.460 I watched two episodes and it's just so joyful it's so fun it's such an escape um I'm going to

00:41:22.340 assume that the large majority of our audience have either seen it or know of it um if you

00:41:27.880 haven't RuPaul is one of the most commercial and well-known drag queens in America he became a

00:41:33.700 fixture on the New York scene and became internationally known after his song

00:41:37.680 supermodel you better work became a hit and then in 1994 he became the first drag queen to

00:41:43.880 collaborate with MAC Cosmetics he got his own talk show and then in 2009 created the competition

00:41:49.980 reality show rupaul's drag race so basically he gets a whole bunch of very talented drag queens

00:41:55.740 into a competition and they compete against each other in different categories so there's like a

00:42:00.400 runway one there's lip-syncing challenges all these different challenges and then there's like 1.00

00:42:06.820 elimination rounds and stuff and then the last drag queen standing will receive a hundred thousand

00:42:12.500 dollars and um unlimited supply of anastasia anastasia i don't know i'm not into makeup at

00:42:19.180 Anastasia Beverly Hills products so yeah I just really enjoyed it RuPaul can sometimes be seen

00:42:27.800 as slightly controversial he's been called out for transphobic comments in the past and as well as

00:42:33.580 leasing some of his ranch out to oil and fracking companies which people have called out a lot but

00:42:40.420 at the end of the day it's a reality tv show there's some drama there's some infighting but

00:42:47.220 it's just super fun light-hearted it's just so joyful to watch people like following their

00:42:53.020 passions and doing something they're really good at like the skills you have to have to be a drag

00:42:59.320 queen oh my god like the performance and everything so if you're looking for like an escape that is

00:43:05.220 on stan australia and i would recommend it fun okay i really need to watch it and there's an

00:43:11.060 australian one coming as well which is quite exciting i might watch that one as well so

00:43:16.380 hopefully that's good um but thank you for that recommendation mags what do you recommend this

00:43:22.520 week so i've got a heavy recommendation for us this week um i do want to have a trigger warning

00:43:29.280 uh the podcast episode i'm about to recommend and what i'm about to talk about will have themes of

00:43:36.700 sexual abuse eating disorders self-harm and suicide so i'm recommending shameless podcasts

00:43:42.980 in conversation episode with grace tain so grace tain for those who don't know is this year's 0.57

00:43:49.620 australian of the year so when grace was just 15 years old she was repeatedly groomed and raped by

00:43:56.400 a 58 year old maths teacher at her school so she spearheaded the let her speak campaign with

00:44:02.920 journalist and activist nina funnel which sought to overturn the gag laws in tasmania the northern

00:44:08.700 territory and Victoria so I had definitely heard of the work that Grace had done but I didn't know

00:44:15.800 her story in this much detail and it was really powerful to listen to it's obviously a very I

00:44:24.120 guess depressing and barbaric story though she is an immensely strong woman but I would definitely

00:44:31.860 recommend and encourage people listen to this episode if you are in the right headspace for it 0.63

00:44:38.960 of course as you can imagine it is a very heavy episode but she is just such a powerful woman

00:44:46.620 that i very much look up to and i think it was a great episode on shameless yeah i really need to

00:44:53.080 listen to that i think grace tame is such an incredible person and is doing amazing things

00:44:59.560 for survivors of sexual assault and abuse so we'd be really interested in listening to that one

00:45:06.240 thanks for recommending it well thank you so much again for listening to this entire episode i know

00:45:14.840 that it was a pretty heavy one so i hope that you our listeners do take care of yourself make space

00:45:21.840 for yourself and just take it slow and do what you need to care for your mental health otherwise

00:45:28.160 we'll be back in your ears next week so have a good week everyone bye

00:45:33.180 bye

Culture Club - March 22, 2021

The Disney Curse

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