Culture Club - Inside Louis Theroux's Manosphere, Internet It Girls Are Acting, Plus How Linked Are Class & Taste？

00:00:00.000 We would like to pay our respects to Elders past and present and extend this to any Aboriginal

00:00:28.860 or Torres Strait Islander listeners today.

00:00:35.140 What's on for your weekend, Mags?

00:00:36.940 What's on for my weekend?

00:00:39.100 I feel like a friend's birthday.

00:00:41.060 That's going to be fun.

00:00:42.220 I booked in Pilates for Saturday morning

00:00:44.060 and I don't usually do it on Saturday,

00:00:45.700 so that's going to be fun.

00:00:46.780 Me too.

00:00:47.580 That's funny.

00:00:48.440 We've both chosen Pilates on Saturday.

00:00:50.740 Love that.

00:00:51.800 And then not much.

00:00:52.860 To be honest, it's good.

00:00:53.640 Oh, sorry.

00:00:54.260 Boring, but freelance life is like you do work on weekends,

00:00:56.760 so I'll be doing that too.

00:00:58.280 Yeah.

00:00:58.780 You?

00:00:59.540 Tonight I'm actually going to Sense of Self for a massage and a bath.

00:01:02.700 I got like a three-hour package.

00:01:04.520 And it was actually a gift from my old pedestrian TV team,

00:01:09.000 like a farewell when I left.

00:01:10.760 And I haven't used it yet.

00:01:11.580 That was in like August.

00:01:12.540 And so I was like, oh, I need a massage.

00:01:14.180 Like I just want to go to Sense of Self.

00:01:16.120 And I was like, wait, I have a voucher.

00:01:17.620 So I'm doing that at five o'clock.

00:01:18.980 That is so lush.

00:01:19.780 Perfect way to start the weekend.

00:01:20.800 Yes.

00:01:21.240 Oh, I love that.

00:01:22.180 I'm so excited for you.

00:01:23.500 Quite envious.

00:01:23.960 Yeah, I love a massage.

00:01:25.860 Who doesn't?

00:01:26.320 Who doesn't?

00:01:26.840 and i've noticed on socials as well that you've been posting some more content of your trip to

00:01:33.640 cambodia like when we spoke about it on the podcast it was all very like secretive and you're

00:01:38.480 like i can't say much so can you tell us more of course that was so funny so at the end of january

00:01:44.920 i went away for a week but i couldn't tell the details and now i can i kind of loved having a

00:01:48.960 secret it was fun uh it was so lovely i went to cambodia with intrepid travel and that was with

00:01:55.340 friends of the podcast lucy neville and aurelia st claire both people who have been interviewed on

00:02:00.780 culture club previously and it was so fun it was a week-long women's expedition which is like one

00:02:06.620 of their women's only trips and we got to kind of trial that out for the first time it was just so

00:02:12.260 beautiful and it's been nice to reflect back on like the pictures and the videos i just had such

00:02:17.500 like a fulfilling and like wholesome time do you have a highlight there was this time where we were

00:02:23.880 bike riding through rice paddocks and like we went through these fields and there was like cows

00:02:29.100 cows that was sunset time and you could hear like monk like chanting in the background and it was

00:02:33.700 just like what it was like a speechless moment that was really special and so this is like a

00:02:39.420 woman's trip that people can book as well yeah that's true they've got a few new locations i

00:02:42.920 went to india with intrepid on a women's expedition a few years ago and that was so good because like

00:02:48.580 yeah why not travel especially with strangers like other women like yeah such a nice experience

00:02:54.980 do you enjoy traveling that way yeah I did um listeners might know like I went to Vietnam last

00:03:00.720 year and that was through Intrepid and it was a group of strangers it wasn't women's only and I

00:03:05.380 was like quite nervous being like oh my god who's gonna be on the trip but he made it even more

00:03:09.540 special to have like this time capsule of a place with strangers he like almost made that memory so

00:03:15.440 much stronger because I that's the only time I know those people if that makes sense yeah yeah

00:03:20.160 I get that I love I laugh because you were like I was in India I was in Vietnam yeah sorry I've

00:03:26.500 had a very nice travel um a couple years I think this year I'm more low-key so probably be here 0.97

00:03:32.560 can we talk about a previous white boy of the month of the podcast Cody Simpson of course

00:03:39.640 always he's back he's back in our instagram feeds tiktok feeds and he gave this interview

00:03:46.620 confirming his breakup with emma mckeon recently did you see this yes but i also saw some pap 0.95

00:03:52.580 photos of him with another woman like yesterday and all the comments were like damn he moved on

00:03:58.660 fast but you know we don't know details of when they actually split and when it was made public

00:04:02.100 blah blah blah but he is back in our kind of like feeds and I got served that on the algorithm

00:04:08.980 his like new music project what wait there's a whole new project like he's not going under

00:04:14.660 Cody Simpson like a new it was a new account it had a blue font and it was Cody Simpson but

00:04:20.520 in sunglasses so it wasn't like super recognizable this is giving um KJ Abba yeah kind of but like

00:04:27.300 less extreme i guess yeah what's his name mr mr fantasy mr fantasy yeah so cody and emma they are

00:04:35.380 both professional australian swimmers it's like the most iconic side quests of a musician ever

00:04:40.280 it's like quite amazing what this man can put his mind to and accomplish and they were actually

00:04:45.380 together for four years which is a long time and so reports circulated last month that the pair

00:04:51.880 had split some time towards the end of last year but like it wasn't fully confirmed until now on

00:04:57.940 the podcast Cody said the relationship ended up being a really beautiful thing for us to do

00:05:02.220 together moving in together and living that lifestyle having Emma in my life to support

00:05:06.720 me through my goals and vice versa we were able to be that for each other and lift each other up

00:05:10.880 she's a special person so he said this on the podcast we need to talk with Paul C Brunson and

00:05:16.020 then he also talked about their lifestyle as swimmers and like professional athletes and he

00:05:21.120 said it's a lifestyle that's hard to understand I feel it would be different to be with someone

00:05:25.480 who isn't doing it while you're doing it I love the way he spoke about their breakup I think this

00:05:30.400 was so respectful so full of love he also didn't say the reasons for the breakup which I think is

00:05:36.320 totally fine and I respect the privacy but I was like wow if an ex talked about me like that

00:05:41.780 I was like it was really wholesome am I just like in the Cody kind of like fantasy like everything

00:05:47.800 he does is amazing but i think it was really nice no it's not it's very mature i think like

00:05:52.340 once you basically out of high school you get a bit older i think that you can leave relationships

00:06:00.020 knowing that it's not forever like he's like four years that's so long but like a relationship

00:06:04.260 doesn't have to be whatever or for four like 10 plus years or marriage to be like important not

00:06:11.120 everything is like end game you can just like have four years of someone and like they support you

00:06:15.440 in that part of your life which is Cody's swimming career and now he's back with a music career so

00:06:20.760 who knows speaking of career changes though Billie Eilish is set to have her first acting

00:06:28.140 debut soon whoa Billie is in advance talks to make her acting debut in the adaptation of Sylvia

00:06:34.780 Plath's classic novel The Bell Jar which is just like a quintessential read I feel like for teenage

00:06:40.960 girls especially during the Tumblr era and have you read it yeah oh I'm so sorry I haven't again

00:06:45.420 my deficit of classics but i know it's like quintessential depression novel not to like

00:06:52.360 diminish the i guess how important that text is um so if you aren't too aware of the novel it's

00:06:59.620 actually the only novel that was um written and released by sylvia plath who's a poet um it was

00:07:05.700 actually published in 1963 and it's a semi-biographical work so it charts like a young

00:07:12.860 woman's descent into mental illness and it definitely of course mirrors her own personal

00:07:18.640 experience as well Sylvia actually died by suicide just a month after the book was published in the

00:07:23.980 UK I actually didn't realize it was a recent work like the 60s not long ago I thought it was a bit

00:07:30.040 older and it feels really modern too I remember I read it when I was 18 in 2014 and I was enthralled

00:07:35.620 like as if it was a modern novel I kind of have been thinking about revisiting it lately and one

00:07:41.020 of my like total treats like if i ever like if i get a bonus or something like that every time i

00:07:45.840 go to a bookstore i see like the hardback cover like the beautiful like embossed belga sylvia

00:07:50.740 plath book and like i never do it i never take the plunge but if i think about it so much i should

00:07:54.880 just do it do it just have my bookshelf and do it before the film comes out because then like

00:07:58.500 prices will skyrocket so more about this movie it's um attached to the director sarah polly

00:08:06.060 who is an Oscar winner. She's created Women Talking and Away From Her. And Billie is set

00:08:12.860 to play the lead character, Esther Greenwood. Billie is incredible. I think the amount of

00:08:18.200 success she has achieved at such a young age. And she's also like forayed into the movie well

00:08:23.240 before through soundtracks. So she wrote for Barbie and also the James Bond, like No Time

00:08:28.760 to Die song. So it's like not the biggest stretch, but I mean, acting is quite a big stretch for

00:08:34.360 music. I also think it's interesting that Billie has like she's in talks for this particular role

00:08:39.140 because it is such like a seminal novel it's so like like sad girl novel vibes like it's pretty

00:08:45.540 prolific so there's quite high expectations of it I think that's probably why it hasn't really been

00:08:51.760 adapted like at least in the mainstream before. Well I want to just talk to you about that one

00:08:56.620 because there's only been one major adaptation of this and that was in 1979. What was interesting

00:09:02.140 when I was reading up about it there's been a few times where like announcements of adaptations have

00:09:06.620 been made and then it's just like fallen apart so one of the biggest adaptations that was going to

00:09:12.160 come to fruition was Kirsten Dunst was going to direct this and have Dakota Fanning star in it

00:09:19.220 and that was announced back in 2016 but then it fell apart so when this news came out this week

00:09:24.580 about Billy I saw a tweet that was like never forget what they took from you like with the

00:09:28.380 headline from 2016 oh that would have been incredible like sofia coppola vibes yes i'm

00:09:34.780 keen for this i'm keen to see billy actually acting i mean it's not been confirmed we're

00:09:39.560 talking like she's been like cast but it's like it's it's pretty it's been reported like it's so

00:09:45.760 close like some people are leading with the headlines like yeah she is so i think it's

00:09:49.620 gonna happen it does seem like there's a little bit of a trend at the moment or some pattern

00:09:54.240 recognition going on with people and like influencers musicians using acting as a way

00:10:00.740 to like legitimize their career our fave emma chamberlain the internet's darling is also

00:10:06.760 debuting in a feature film oh my goodness when we saw the trailer drop for this like a month ago or

00:10:11.840 something i was like so shocked i feel like emma chamberlain has been a little bit more quiet

00:10:16.340 recently i feel like she's obviously still doing a podcast but less so youtube like what is she

00:10:21.200 getting up to and it seems like she's getting into acting so there is a new movie coming out

00:10:27.960 it's called Forbidden Fruits it's actually out March 20 so very soon and it's a horror comedy

00:10:33.440 and it's actually got quite like a star-studded cast it's got Lola Tung from Summer I Turn Pretty

00:10:39.140 Lily Reinhart I was gonna say from Riverdale but she'd probably hate that Victoria Pedretti

00:10:43.920 and Alexandra Shipp so like cool like women-led cast are you keen to see Emma in a movie I'm keen

00:10:50.840 to see her I think she's got quite like a smaller role like she's not one of the main characters but 0.78

00:10:54.720 she does make her appearance in the trailer. I'm intrigued by the concept I'll tell you about it

00:11:00.980 it's a horror comedy it's set in a Dallas shopping mall where the employees of a free people knock

00:11:06.060 off called Free Eden run a witchy femme cult in the mall's basement after hours. This sounds so

00:11:12.020 cool. My thing is I feel like we've seen a lot touch this genre of like feminist satire comedy

00:11:19.920 horror like commenting on modern landscapes and sometimes I think the execution can fall flat

00:11:27.580 I think a lot of movies we didn't talk about the one called slanted I don't know if you saw that

00:11:32.540 rolling around it's coming out soon it's kind of like the substance but it's about an Asian girl

00:11:36.180 turning white anyway but it's like people have really cool concepts but I don't think a concept

00:11:40.800 is enough to like hold up a film just because like it's a cool story and sometimes I think

00:11:46.100 these types of films can veer into like satire or parody when they're not meaning to like they're

00:11:52.080 trying to have a meta take and then they can often i find like if it's not done properly it can

00:11:59.260 feel more like a satire of women and of like the modern era true and i feel like for me the example

00:12:06.340 that's coming to mind is the substance right and i'm and i really enjoy that movie but i'm like

00:12:10.440 it's not enough to just show the thing and then make audiences assume that you're critiquing it

00:12:15.960 just because you're showing it doesn't mean like you're you're inversing the stereotype i was just

00:12:21.040 like i needed more i don't know that's we're getting too much into it we're deeping it we're

00:12:25.860 on the same topic in last week's episode we discussed kylie jenner's acting debut in the

00:12:30.420 moment which we thought was good uh critic like not critics but like people online people were

00:12:36.340 saying critics were liking it well yeah saying like she was a standout moment of the film

00:12:41.100 um she this week had a profile in u.s vanity fair where one of the topics was her wanting to pursue

00:12:48.880 acting even further she actually said that she'd gotten a few scripts across her desk but nothing

00:12:54.600 had like fully piqued her interest yet and that she's really interested in comedy she was like

00:12:59.300 i really like comedy i think i'm good at it maybe next time i talk to you i'll be the lead of an

00:13:04.020 action movie so cute two things like i really like comedy but maybe i'll be the lead in an action

00:13:08.780 movie I love that it would be so funny if she became like this Oscar nominated incredible like

00:13:15.120 actress of the generation while Timothy Chalamet is just like fuming in the corner oh my god that

00:13:20.420 would be crazy Kylie's the one giving like shout outs to Timothy on stage my partner of three years

00:13:26.080 blacklisted from any artistic movies

00:13:38.780 Maggie how was your recent trip to Southeast Asia? It was so good I loved discovering a new

00:13:45.660 culture trying new foods and immersing myself over there. It honestly sounded amazing I love

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00:14:57.360 this week Mags I saw that you went to the ballet one of your favorite things to do yeah in your

00:15:05.060 face Timothy Charlemagne I thought you were saying in your face to me because I'm never on the ballet

00:15:10.760 list I need to take you I took my little sister this time but I'll take you you took me once like

00:15:16.560 last year I think which was incredible I was like so on it I think I actually had to ask you I was

00:15:20.700 like next time you go to the ballet can I please be your plus one no so as we had this conversation

00:15:25.140 I was like I remember that message and I was like did I take jazz so you can come again and it was

00:15:29.540 so fun it was a beautiful production it was with the Australian Ballet and Bangara Dance Theatre

00:15:34.880 they're two of Australia's most like prestigious dance companies and it was like a collaborative

00:15:38.860 work called Flora so freaking good shortest run ever like it kills me that there's it's incredible

00:15:45.520 production and it goes for like nine days and I was like what so it will be on when this episode

00:15:50.800 it goes yeah but like only for a little bit so we'll link it anyway yeah you guys should really

00:15:54.740 go ballet is such a beautiful thing that I if I mean real though and we're going to get into more

00:15:59.960 on this later I've only gone because I was I've been invited through PR and media for like I'd

00:16:07.280 never otherwise gone actually no I went once with my older sister she took me as like a as a birthday

00:16:12.640 present when I was quite young but this is a big topic of conversation this week everybody's got

00:16:18.480 opinions about ballet and opera of course this is off the back of the timothy chalamet discourse

00:16:23.860 that's happened in the lead up to the oscars timothy kind of put his foot well definitely

00:16:29.500 put his foot in his mouth during an interview with matthew mcconaughey at a cnn variety town hall

00:16:35.220 at the end of february which was kind of like an oscars style like interview just like learning

00:16:40.420 more about timothy and marty supreme that he's nominated for we'll play the clip that's going

00:16:45.620 viral now people and i've done it myself to go on a talk show go hey we got to keep movie theaters

00:16:49.620 alive you know we got to keep this genre alive and another part of me feels like if people want

00:16:55.260 to see it like barbie like oppenheimer they're going to go see it and go out of their way to

00:16:58.260 be loud and proud about it and i don't want to be working in ballet or opera or you know things

00:17:03.520 where it's like hey keep this thing alive even though no one cares about this anymore all respect

00:17:08.140 to the ballet and opera people out there uh i just lost 14 cents in viewership but um 0.75

00:17:13.720 damn i just took shots for no reason so the irony of his comments was not lost on many fans who

00:17:21.800 were really quick to point out that both his sister his mother and his grandmother were all 0.99

00:17:27.260 professional ballet dancers yeah so he's got family that are so tied into the business he

00:17:32.740 himself is an artist he works in the arts and to have a statement that just like criticizes or like

00:17:39.060 belittles so many working artists it was like what are you doing why I think I mean he did in that

00:17:45.260 clip that we played he realized his mistake very quickly as he's like saying it as it's like

00:17:49.800 tumbling out of his mouth I think he like forgot that he was I don't know on a camera or something

00:17:53.900 or in public because you can see his like eyes like regretting it so quickly and Matthew McConaughey

00:18:00.680 is like trying to stop him with his eyes like what are you doing well then he was like yeah yeah yeah

00:18:05.460 i got it i feel like he did that because timothy was obviously like embarrassed like pretty quickly

00:18:09.920 but then why did he double down and be like i just lost 14 cents in viewership like that wasn't even

00:18:14.520 more of a scathing comment i think like he could have been like oh damn i just like i gave them

00:18:19.960 strays whatever he says why does he kind of like double down which i feel like it's quite a bro 0.78

00:18:24.760 thing to do even though he knew what he said was kind of um wrong he's actually said comments like

00:18:29.820 this previously so in 2019 he went on the graham norton show and said quote he was kind of getting

00:18:37.000 scared when i was younger that maybe cinema was becoming like opera or something like an outdated

00:18:41.840 art form or something later that year in a different interview he said you start working

00:18:46.700 on movies and you start acting and i start to get the sense that opera or ballet or something

00:18:51.320 is kind of a dying art form i saw a clip on tiktok of all of these like clipped together

00:18:57.000 and someone comments like what is his problem like what is his vendetta against like who hurt

00:19:02.700 him in opera and ballet it's like almost line by line similar as well and look that's seven years

00:19:09.340 after the fact he originally said that on the record so are you surprised by the backlash and

00:19:14.400 like why do you think this hit a nerve we saw loads of opera houses and ballet around the world

00:19:20.360 kind of like giving like discounts or like making tiktoks in response to this it's actually been

00:19:26.180 probably really good for the industry i agree because i'm like when's the last time we talked

00:19:30.180 about ballet or opera in the mainstream news we don't which kind of is his point right like i think

00:19:37.080 there is a little bit of truth to it i think it was disrespectful the way he said it but you can't

00:19:42.340 say he's totally totally wrong yeah no i understand that too that's why i think i was so i was surprised

00:19:48.800 at the public backlash to this because i'm like the average person doesn't care about this let's

00:19:53.900 be real i think that people really just took offense because people want to be appreciative

00:20:00.180 of the arts and be supportive at least in theory perhaps not in practice always that's such a good

00:20:06.140 take like how many of the commenters do you think are actually going to opera or ballet yeah and

00:20:11.040 we'll get into why as well like obviously it's a financial thing there was this article called

00:20:15.400 timothy chalamet is right about ballet and opera by chris murphy in vanity fair we'll read out a

00:20:21.580 bit of the piece. He says, quite frankly, everyone needs to get a grip. Were Charlemagne's comments

00:20:27.600 graceless? Sure. Inelegant? Yes. Even a bit rude and dismissive? Well, yeah. But was anything

00:20:33.960 Charlemagne said incorrect? Not in the slightest. Opera and ballet are no longer a predominant part

00:20:39.600 of mainstream culture. Comparing the modern day impact of opera and ballet to that of film would

00:20:44.760 be like comparing curling to NFL football. They continue, this is the fate Charlemagne wants

00:20:49.820 movies to avoid art becoming a playground or hobby meant only for the elite and newsflash

00:20:55.340 that's in danger of happening beyond the fine arts between the rise of ai the consolidation

00:21:00.300 of major movie studios and the streaming era temptation to watch everything from the comfort

00:21:05.200 of your couch theatrical cinema as we know it is in danger of going the way of opera and ballet

00:21:10.140 completely and that leads us to the conversation of the link between art and class more broadly i

00:21:16.100 think it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that there's obviously a link with your

00:21:20.800 socioeconomic standing and maybe the art you consume or like your interests that you're

00:21:25.620 afforded because access and wealth are big influences when it comes to interests and

00:21:30.520 hobbies like you know the like people who go skiing you just you you you have to have a level

00:21:37.920 of wealth to access a sport like that that's just a fact can I say that yeah definitely okay I'm

00:21:45.160 like scared it's it's like um it's hard having conversations about class i think because there

00:21:50.660 are so many like sweeping generalizations that you might make but we're gonna do it anyway

00:21:55.300 obviously it's much more affordable to go to the cinema even though cinema tickets are like

00:22:00.880 how much now 25 maybe for an adult ticket at like a mainstream cinema that is obviously more

00:22:06.600 accessible than 100 plus dollars on ballet or the opera the other week laurie and i went to this is

00:22:14.800 more like theater i guess or orchestra stuff but like on a random saturday we went to see a

00:22:21.020 performance at the art center melbourne and i swear this is not like trying to brag but i remember

00:22:25.380 being like it was one of laurie's like favorite movies in like played live whatever and all right

00:22:31.280 we bought the tickets and i remember being like oh my gosh this is like such a privilege like

00:22:35.400 what a life we live to just on a random saturday wake up in a major city and be like i want to

00:22:39.980 consume some art today and then go down the road and like watch it and I'm not saying this to be

00:22:44.840 like look we're so great but it was more just like wow this is a privilege and like not something

00:22:49.800 that I think you I take for granted especially like the opportunities that we get through like

00:22:54.380 PR and media as well I completely agree with you like it's not a basic necessity of living but it

00:23:00.520 is something that nourishes our soul and I do feel very lucky to have that disposable income to spend

00:23:07.060 on this I will say though like one of my biggest expenses is paying for experiences like this like

00:23:13.160 seeing shows so it's something I do invest in because like I love it and it doesn't come cheap

00:23:19.020 I was thinking about this conversation actually before all this Timothy Chalamet discourse um

00:23:23.640 kicked off because Ed Sheeran like we talked about last week he was in Melbourne and I found it

00:23:29.420 interesting that as I was around the arena that he was performing at his fans like many artists

00:23:35.760 like his fans kind of look similar there's a similar style of dress a similar perhaps like

00:23:40.680 demographic that gets drawn to concerts and I was thinking how interesting is that that that is still

00:23:46.540 the case in our quite democratized era of music specifically where you don't have to go out to

00:23:54.040 buy a cd to listen to an artist but you can listen to it for free on youtube spotify other streaming

00:23:59.120 platforms yet it seems that like similar groups do congregate to similar music still and like

00:24:06.740 perhaps I don't want to be making sweeping generalizations around class because obviously

00:24:10.660 I don't know how much money these people are making but it feels like there are still similar

00:24:16.820 socio-economic groups who listen to certain types of music so stereotypes are like you know wealthy

00:24:22.840 people listen to classical music or jazz and perhaps people of a lower class or working class

00:24:28.180 listen to pop music isn't it interesting that this still stands i think it is interesting that

00:24:34.180 yes that's still a thing but i'm also noticing i don't know if you are too

00:24:38.600 with the rise of anti-intellectualism and with the cost of living crisis i'm finding

00:24:46.640 online a lot of the commentary don't know if these are teenagers talking which is something

00:24:51.880 i always try to keep in mind especially when i'm looking at tiktok but people who like attend

00:24:55.880 things like art or like theater are kind of being seen as like elitist now yeah I wonder how much

00:25:03.800 of it is an internet thing versus a real life thing I think there that's definitely trickling

00:25:08.760 down I think the criticism of someone being pretentious is something that's relevant now

00:25:15.040 you hear people even if someone's speaking on TikTok and using like bigger words people are

00:25:20.840 like whoa slow down there Shakespeare like there is a distaste for that but I don't know if that's

00:25:27.460 just like general internet culture I don't know how much of that applies to real life like I don't

00:25:32.140 think people are seeing people walk into an art gallery in person being like whoa like calm down

00:25:36.260 there you know that I've been called posh before because your accent because you're like a bit

00:25:41.520 British and like you dress chic those are like the only two things that come to mind yeah I thought

00:25:48.540 it's funny because like the way you think of yourself is not how you're perceived by others

00:25:53.240 as well I think also to that point um I get called that as well like have you been called

00:26:01.580 pretentious before uh yes because oh wait okay bring it up Tom bring up Tom um I love criticizing

00:26:07.160 things in a healthy way so when I'm watching something or if I've eaten a meal out I want

00:26:12.260 to talk about why I like it or I don't like it and sometimes Tom's like oh he just he's a lover

00:26:16.740 boy he's like I love this is so good he's like this is the best thing ever and I'm like but

00:26:21.540 actually no I want you I want to hear you actually dissect that or tell me why you loved it so much

00:26:27.900 I think that's such an important part of being human but then sometimes it's like are you being

00:26:32.260 pretentious like just enjoy the thing but I'm like well I want to talk about it and that is why we

00:26:36.600 have a whole podcast dedicated to dissecting stuff like this so sociologist Pierre Bordeaux

00:26:42.940 suggested that our tastes are profoundly influenced by social class i don't think this is anything like

00:26:47.920 revolutionary that we are like uncovering here but just kind of like backing up what we're saying

00:26:53.860 he did argue that taste is not simply a reflection of personal preference but a marker of your

00:26:59.100 cultural capital helping to reinforce class divisions and to our point before about instagram

00:27:05.000 and social media i think it's just becoming because we're sharing everything we're doing

00:27:09.140 it's just becoming more obvious like not saying we in like invest in these things or do these

00:27:15.100 things because we're trying to portray a certain class but when you are sharing your life it

00:27:20.780 becomes easier to like put people into boxes of taste and class I think yeah and to that point

00:27:26.200 as well um Bordeaux argues that people of like the higher higher classes their tastes are seen

00:27:33.340 as like the universal taste whereas working class tastes are often dismissed as unrefined or

00:27:38.380 inferior it's an interesting one because um as we're talking about like what you just say you're

00:27:43.540 like class does have a direct impact with your interests and I was thinking about the Ed Sheeran

00:27:49.040 thing before art because it's like I guess in some ways like to enjoy opera or something like ballet

00:27:53.800 you might require a certain level of knowledge and education which will like heighten your

00:27:58.100 experience of experiencing that art form but to contradict myself on that point like who is to

00:28:03.520 say that you don't need a certain level of information or like education to understand

00:28:08.400 or enjoy pop music as well like everything does require context yeah nothing exists in a vacuum

00:28:14.320 and I really enjoy like when we're talking about books and stuff or movies like knowing the

00:28:20.060 references like that's genuinely like a passion of mine I think like I don't know maybe it's

00:28:24.580 being a curious Gemini but I love like knowing where things came from like Harry Styles referenced

00:28:29.540 so many um like other artists like Simon and Garfunkel and Paul Simon in that interview with

00:28:36.000 Zane Lowe that I referenced last week and I just love stuff like that like oh my god yeah like

00:28:39.760 being able to pick it out is like satisfying to me but I know not everyone feels that way

00:28:44.240 and to that point like I didn't pick up on those references let's say but I can still enjoy Harry's

00:28:49.400 album like it's not a prerequisite to have that additional knowledge and I don't think anyone's

00:28:53.660 saying that like of course it can further your enjoyment of something but it's you're also able

00:28:58.160 to enjoy things without that level of knowledge quickly going back to the point you made about

00:29:04.820 well it's bordeaux's theory about um the elite being framed as universal markers of good taste

00:29:10.180 and working class are dismissed as inferior i saw a great tiktok by the user alex ma this morning

00:29:16.260 and it was about burberry the british fashion brand and how the brand was nearly like ruined

00:29:22.240 because the Burberry check print that they're so famous for they started selling it in like the

00:29:28.020 early 2000s on like caps and like bags like really accessible price points and so like

00:29:33.460 working or middle class people were able to access the brand and it became like prolific

00:29:39.940 across the UK especially and then the like wealthy people stopped buying it we see that all the time

00:29:45.420 there's so many examples of it wealthy people stopped buying it and it was deemed as like

00:29:49.840 you know inferior and then a new designer came in I'll reference the whole TikTok it's really good

00:29:55.200 in the show notes a new designer came in and um stopped all that and then the wealthy started

00:30:01.240 buying it again because it became like um exclusive again it just it's you're so right

00:30:08.740 like this happens all the time but it's just like so gross because the because the elite or the one

00:30:14.900 percent want to be seen that way and they don't want to associate with like the underlings

00:30:19.040 of society. To switch things up a bit, we are doing a joint bookmarked recommendation

00:30:35.340 and we're going to deep dive it. So we are both recommending Louis Thoreau's new documentary

00:30:42.740 inside the manosphere we both watched this as it came out I watched it the like the hour it dropped

00:30:50.440 oh my gosh and it made me feel so unwell I texted you last night I was watching it while I was

00:30:56.100 eating my dinner by myself and I was like literally texting you like I feel sick watching

00:31:01.240 this like I was so angry I wanted to punch something so tense I will say this is the

00:31:06.220 first documentary I have watched of Louis Thoreau oh my god I'm really bad I'm really bad at watching

00:31:11.340 docos louis really great like there's so much content out there because he's been making

00:31:16.540 documentaries for like 20 30 maybe even closer to 30 years now he is incredible like i love his

00:31:22.740 interviewing style i really um thought it was amazing the way he was handling these interviews

00:31:28.980 but let's just like take it back to the topic of the documentary it's about the manosphere

00:31:34.620 so this is a term that's been coming around a lot more but to break it down it is a broad

00:31:40.780 description for a part of the internet that promotes ideas of masculinity misogyny and

00:31:45.840 anti-feminism my faves it's a really broad term though so it incorporates people like podcaster

00:31:52.520 joe rogan to crypto bros to gym content and the tate brothers so in this documentary louis follows

00:31:58.820 a handful of some of the most notorious content creators in the matter sphere they're peddling

00:32:03.860 like sexism toxic masculinity and anti-semitism to literally millions sometimes billions of people

00:32:10.240 which is super scary so these people include harrison sullivan who's better known as hs

00:32:15.800 ticky tocky i actually died every time they said that that's his tiktok handle hs ticky tocky like

00:32:22.040 that doesn't seem particularly masculine to me but anyway myron gaines who i think is one of the

00:32:27.440 most like insidious and scariest of the people that louie interviews justin waller and nicholas

00:32:34.180 kenda balanthazi also known as sneaker who's actually been banned off multiple platforms

00:32:39.460 he's recently come back to youtube but he's been banned off all of like the mainstream like

00:32:43.400 instagram tiktok etc for his like extremist views before this i actually never heard of any of these

00:32:48.920 men me either because we're in our little safe bubble where there's no misogyny yeah and what

00:32:55.780 was interesting um i was watching with a friend of the podcast uh simran who co-hosts the podcast

00:33:00.800 broadly relevant and instantly because what we see from these men and the way that they earn money

00:33:06.420 is like they kind of promote these like cheat sheets to win at life and to make a lot of money

00:33:11.040 for yourself outside the quote-unquote matrix of like general society and it was like oh this is

00:33:18.420 just male MLM this is an MLM literally well especially when they're like asking people to

00:33:25.560 attend like their universities and coaching programs gym programs um one of them HS Tiki

00:33:34.020 talky he like sell like he owns an agent an only fans agency but then when he's talking to louie

00:33:40.400 he like rejects the premise of only fans and like talks down about sex workers and says like if his 0.81

00:33:46.800 daughter did that he'd be like mortified and he'd disown his son if he was gay and all these like

00:33:51.600 conflicting morality question it's just like it's really grim watching honestly yeah i had never

00:34:00.400 really dived into the Manosphere that much

00:34:02.480 because I think it's quite intimidating.

00:34:04.600 It's very frightening.

00:34:06.500 And I also asked how much you get out of it

00:34:10.440 from knowing what's happening.

00:34:11.620 So I think having a documentary like this,

00:34:13.300 having Louis take us through it in safe hands

00:34:15.720 was a good way to go about it.

00:34:18.140 Shall we talk about what was most impactful

00:34:20.860 or the favourite parts of this?

00:34:23.000 Yeah, we'll go through favourites first.

00:34:24.880 If you're a fan of Louis, you know that one of his weapons

00:34:27.800 is essentially letting people talk.

00:34:30.400 Louis interviewed Scientologists, extremist church people,

00:34:33.840 Zionists, et cetera, and one of his tactics to get them

00:34:38.660 to explain their points of views is through just, like, silence 0.98

00:34:43.500 and kind of being seen as, like, the quote-unquote dumb British man. 0.99

00:34:48.480 Like, he's clueless. 0.99

00:34:49.740 What do you mean?

00:34:50.620 Yeah.

00:34:51.360 What's that?

00:34:52.160 He's so good at it.

00:34:54.340 And so I think he does that well to these content creators

00:34:58.600 in this in this documentary um another thing that he does well is digging into the history and

00:35:06.560 asking why they are this way like what is that essentially the trauma like how they ended up

00:35:13.160 being this extreme and especially degrading towards women as well yeah i found the parts

00:35:19.280 that featured women one of the more um enlightening parts the way that the first woman is woman is

00:35:25.440 introduced by hs it's like and that's our dishwasher oh my god and there's just like this

00:35:30.580 like blonde girl being like hi smiling at the camera and like being like lovely to the interviewers

00:35:36.680 um it was so many jaw opening jaw dropping moments uh there's a part later on with hs's mom

00:35:44.240 which is so funny because he has respect for his mom but single mom yeah single mom and it's just

00:35:51.640 so funny when they show part of the live stream where this is like the most bro-y guy you've ever

00:35:55.900 seen and he's like no mommy i don't want a juice literally and like he doesn't care like i was on

00:36:01.160 a live stream like it was so funny and you can see the light fading out of her eyes at the end

00:36:06.300 when louis interviewing him and he's like spouting some of this like homophobic sexist language and 0.96

00:36:11.900 you can see her being like don't make me look stupid but then she does defend him in the end

00:36:16.460 exactly so it was a bit hard i don't want to give her all the credit no definitely not and there

00:36:20.500 were a few times where um partners of the other manusia influences were on screen and seeing how

00:36:27.100 their dynamic played out was really eye-opening like these women who have a lot of love for their

00:36:32.920 partners and it was so hard to figure out if they believe what they were saying about like the

00:36:37.580 dynamic of like you know he's like yeah he like makes some money for us i take care of the kids

00:36:42.540 we stay in our own lanes or like um he's different to who he is off camera like i really love him

00:36:49.140 it's hard it was hard to understand like if that's reassurance to themselves if that's

00:36:55.240 something they fully believe I mean when you were talking about Byron like one of the most

00:37:00.620 problematic figures like his girlfriend over the time was interviewed there but then at the end it

00:37:05.340 showed that she had left him which was amazing I do think a lot was left unsaid though so there

00:37:10.920 was nothing in this documentary really aside from top level like lines about how the manosphere

00:37:16.760 and incel culture is impacting young boys and girls I think one of the scariest parts was seeing

00:37:22.960 like the fans coming up to these guys and their faces are blurred but you can tell they're teenagers

00:37:28.440 like 13 14 year old boys and that was like gut-wrenching to me because what is the future

00:37:35.180 gonna be if that is what like millions of these young boys genuinely think about women about money

00:37:39.740 about um like what it means to be a man and I don't think that the documentary goes deep enough

00:37:46.380 into that which is what a lot of like teachers and parents are really worried about at the moment

00:37:50.180 I think this could have been like a three-part series easily like there's enough Louis said

00:37:55.460 in interview that he like was filming this for a year but I think it would have been even longer

00:38:00.660 I see what you mean I think I is this his typical style though where he like interrogates or looks

00:38:06.240 into the world of these figures themselves and not necessarily like the wider cultural impact

00:38:11.700 of it i think it was really powerful to see these men in like their habitats essentially but i'm i

00:38:17.380 think you're right i would love to have seen this as a multi-part series where we do look at the

00:38:21.040 impact on others in a review for the guardian the journalist lucy mangan felt the same lucy said

00:38:27.140 there are a few potentially very interesting appearances from the girlfriends and wives

00:38:30.900 in the men's lives mostly the relationships are of one-sided monogamy which means exactly what

00:38:35.980 you would suspect they're rarely seen for a second time when the men realize how easily they could go

00:38:41.100 off script you wish the roo had pursued what this means along with how the manosphere affects those

00:38:46.660 who have not chosen to be part of it school girls and teachers dealing with the teenage boys exposed

00:38:51.620 to this content young women who can hardly find men in their circles to date who are unaffected

00:38:56.780 by or reject this insidious stuff i also really like this interview with louis by david gilbert

00:39:02.480 for wide magazine and it's called why is the manosphere so successful it's literally a q a with

00:39:07.580 louis because i did feel like no i want to learn more about this like i instantly went on to tiktok

00:39:11.500 like tiktok louis to see if he'd spoken more about it and his answer was really interesting it says

00:39:18.040 i sometimes make the metaphor that everything's become pornography extreme content feels like

00:39:23.520 political pornography and a lot of instagram feels to me like emotional pornography it's this feeling

00:39:29.020 that whatever is going to drive your most basic most primal emotional responses that's what will

00:39:33.820 get engagement. And once you notice that and you see how, okay, so that's going to actually become

00:39:39.240 pervasive and this extreme and toxic and lowest common denominator indoctrination will just be

00:39:44.820 rampant across people's social media feeds. That part of our brain, the amygdala that is responsible

00:39:50.360 for decision-making, it feels like that most primitive part of our thinking has been hooked

00:39:54.800 up with the most powerful, most high-tech forms of content dissemination. And in concert, we created

00:40:00.980 a non-stop Las Vegas style media feed that's actually now bleeding

00:40:05.080 into the power centers in Washington and elsewhere.

00:40:08.800 The point that he was talking about how like everything is pornographic,

00:40:12.140 I think I've mentioned this podcast episode previously on the podcast,

00:40:15.940 but I would highly recommend it's called A Dubai Chocolate Theory

00:40:19.260 of the Internet and that's by Search Engine.

00:40:22.000 And they talk about this concept, which since I learned it,

00:40:25.400 I'm like it's so true and I can't unsee it when I'm just scrolling now.

00:40:28.860 one thing as well that louis is really good at well it ties into the whole like silence thing

00:40:35.580 but it's like using pity in his interview style and when he goes back through the editing process

00:40:40.400 and in the end this is like the final say of these men like these men can reject them they can say

00:40:48.100 like louis is not prolific or something or influential but louis ends with this really

00:40:54.620 strong pity. And in Esquire magazine, Miranda Collins emphasised this. Miranda wrote,

00:40:59.740 What is the worst thing that you can say about a manosphere man? That he's evil or brutish or

00:41:04.640 immoral? No, that would be more or less a compliment. The worst thing you can say is

00:41:09.500 that he's weak, that he's silly, that he's frail, that he is, in fact, a product of an absence of 0.99

00:41:15.240 agency, a victim of his own powerlessness. In other words, the direct opposite of what he so 0.98

00:41:20.440 desperately wants to project we also see this in the documentary when some fans of one of the

00:41:27.120 content creators come up to him and they're like we're a big fan like we love you and then louie

00:41:30.680 finds them later and like interviews them down on the beach and you kind of get an inside glimpse

00:41:35.300 into why they're like using this manosphere content as like a beacon of hope against you know

00:41:40.880 record levels of unemployment um depression mental illness issues the cost of living crisis

00:41:46.580 i thought that was an interesting part of the documentary as well really big insight to the

00:41:52.180 people who are like warped into and like sucked into the manosphere because we know like of course

00:41:57.900 especially like young men are struggling and facing many issues at the moment and we're not

00:42:03.700 going to deny that but to your point about the pity element because i think you're right like

00:42:08.440 they definitely did that and they played into that but there's a part of me that doesn't

00:42:12.020 necessarily agree with it because essentially we're using toxic masculinity to try criticize

00:42:18.280 these men or like make them feel bad but just like reiterating the same points of like oh weakness is

00:42:23.180 bad which is their language like and that's what the manosphere influences promote which just makes

00:42:30.800 me feel a bit like I get it yeah maybe you have to play you have to play their game in a way but

00:42:36.760 it's not like something that I completely like want to get behind what do you mean by that because

00:42:44.900 it's like oh we're telling these men that looking weak is bad but it's not or is it oh like because

00:42:50.700 I'm thinking about the watch like people who are viewing this right I understand how it feels to

00:42:55.260 the manosphere influences that it makes like that's gonna affect them do you think audiences

00:43:01.460 are watching this and thinking that that fragility is negative i think no i think like the manosphere

00:43:08.100 people are and that's a point that the esquire magazine like miranda made as well that like the

00:43:12.940 people who are in the manosphere are not watching this documentary like it's not for them but also

00:43:17.740 it is giving them more status like i was googling some of them last night like i did not follow them

00:43:22.740 obviously but i was like who are these people i now know about them we're talking about them on

00:43:25.520 the podcast so it's a level of like notoriety again but i don't think that in the documentary

00:43:31.280 it's saying like oh this is why like it's okay I think it's just giving an insight which is what

00:43:36.740 Louis does really well definitely I'm not saying that we should empathize oh I mean it's not the

00:43:41.760 worst thing but like I don't think he's using pity to empathize with these men but I don't want it to

00:43:47.660 seem like pity is a bad thing that like oh we're seeing these men as like little boys and then

00:43:52.540 they feel weak and then that's a negative like I don't want to think that hmm but I don't think

00:43:58.480 that's what lou's doing i think he's using pity in the end to be like essentially like look at

00:44:02.600 these losers yeah but i don't want that oh wait unless we're talking about like because i'm i'm

00:44:07.320 picturing when he's talking about them as like little kids and stuff like that like i'm not 0.97

00:44:10.820 gonna be like oh they're a loser but i think that's his angle of like why did they they're

00:44:17.340 a product of this like culture that's changing really rapidly and so how did they get there 0.82

00:44:23.520 and looking back at the childhood is one way to do that yeah as miranda writes in her article

00:44:28.620 the images playing beneath his voice are from self-film videos of sneaker and ed matthews as

00:44:34.180 young boys making their first forays into the content creating world that will soon swallow

00:44:38.780 them up they look young sweet vulnerable they are not to be feared but to be pitied they would hate

00:44:44.220 it the rue within the venerable medium of television has triumphed over the manosphere men

00:44:50.040 but as victories go it's some it's also somewhat hollow it seems unlikely that they or at least the

00:44:56.700 other little boys who revere them will be watching so you can watch the manosphere documentary on

00:45:02.660 netflix i really hope this like begins a bigger conversation again we're already talking about a

00:45:07.060 lot but i think louie doing it is more mainstream and we will hopefully have more of these convos

00:45:12.840 and like how to combat it definitely thank you so much for listening to this episode of culture club

00:45:19.640 We will be back in your ears very soon and appreciate you joining us today.

00:45:24.100 Thanks for listening.

00:45:25.180 See ya.

Culture Club - March 16, 2026

Inside Louis Theroux's Manosphere, Internet It Girls Are Acting, Plus How Linked Are Class & Taste？

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