Culture Study Podcast - Intergenerational Friendships Rule

00:00:00.000 this is the culture study podcast and i'm ann helen peterson and i'm andrew sean greer the

00:00:12.700 author of the novel villa coco and the author of two of my other favorite books i have to start

00:00:19.760 with less because it's like my it just is like surprising in all of these ways i was absolutely

00:00:25.420 bewitched by it. It's such a lovely novel. And I think anyone who loved less or less is lost

00:00:34.300 will absolutely love Villacoco. So tell me about Villacoco. I'm halfway through and I'm totally,

00:00:42.240 totally in love with it. You say in like the letter that came with the galley, you start out

00:00:48.100 by talking about it as a certain type of book that you miss. So maybe you could start by saying that,

00:00:53.880 talking a little bit about that. Yeah, I wanted to write what I would call a charm novel,

00:01:00.580 which is not like a comfort novel, but is something that just charms your pants off.

00:01:06.720 You just want to stay in that world forever. There can be terrible things that happen,

00:01:12.720 but there is a sense of possibility and creativity, eccentricity, and like an absurdity to it

00:01:21.700 that makes you want to stay there because you can laugh at things a little and the plot is

00:01:27.240 inspired by a friendship that is in your real life but is not this friendship so can you talk

00:01:34.020 a little bit about that as well yes i in 2005 i was invited to a writer's residency in rural

00:01:40.940 tuscany run by a baronessa who was then in her late 70s and i was 35 34 or 35 and we've continued

00:01:51.400 that friendship I was the only one besides her nephew who went to her 90th birthday in Havana

00:01:57.040 Cuba she turned 100 a few months ago I just saw her two weeks ago for a big luncheon and it's been

00:02:04.500 one of the greatest friendships of my life to have this woman there when we were trying to come up

00:02:12.000 with things that we wanted to talk to you about I knew that I wanted to have you on the show and

00:02:15.340 we're like okay like we could talk about this we could talk about this but like at the heart of

00:02:19.700 this book is intergenerational friendship and I wouldn't say either one of us are like oh my gosh

00:02:27.500 I only have intergenerational friendships like this is something that actually is somewhat new

00:02:33.020 to me but I also now recognize it as an essential part of my life so and I know that a lot of our

00:02:39.640 listeners really want more intergenerational friendships and want to cherish them more and

00:02:43.520 cultivate more of them so we're going to talk about being friends with people who are older

00:02:47.760 than you, people who are younger than you, difficulties in each. And as you said before

00:02:52.640 we hit record, these are not easy questions, but they're going to be really interesting ones,

00:02:57.500 I think. I'm sure they will. Okay, so we're going to jump right in. This first one comes

00:03:02.780 from Jennifer, and it's going to let you talk a little bit more about Italy.

00:03:06.520 In my personal experience, intergenerational friendships seem much more common in other

00:03:11.320 places than they are in the US, where they seem like the exception rather than the norm.

00:03:15.820 Why do you think that is? Is it how much our social communities are built around school? How relatively uncommon it is to live in intergenerational households? Our culture's obsession with categorizing people by generation? And is it related at all to our culture's high level of acceptance of age gap romantic relationships? Though that's being questioned more now, too.

00:03:38.840 hmm there's a lot here but you there's a lot there i know but you live like i mean how do

00:03:47.820 you describe like do you live both places do you live in the u.s and italy do you mostly live in

00:03:52.560 italy how italian do you feel i definitely because people ask me um whether i'm moving

00:03:58.860 one place or the other i say no i live in both places yeah so although while i'm not italian

00:04:05.060 in any way. I definitely spent half my time there. And it is a challenge of my lifetime to speak in

00:04:11.840 another language and live in a foreign culture. What have you noticed about how intergenerational

00:04:16.340 friendship works differently? Or just like intergenerational closeness even in Italy?

00:04:21.680 I mean, I think it's much more common. One obvious way, and this is a broad generalization,

00:04:28.040 is that different generations will be in the same household for much longer. Young people

00:04:34.940 will stay there into their they graduate from from their university at around 25 so they are 0.96

00:04:40.080 not living on their own until later some stay until they get married um older um generations

00:04:47.420 will move into the house or will come for i know my husband's uncle who's 96 i think he comes

00:04:55.760 every weekend for for lunch and that's just part of the life now is that they sort of start to take

00:05:02.860 care of him that there definitely is an expectation you're taking care of the older generation but

00:05:08.620 also the older generation is out on the streets yeah they are you know yeah they're out drinking

00:05:13.980 till 11 or 12 too they're at the dance things yeah this is a crucial point that i think is

00:05:20.140 sometimes lost like people are like oh well in these other cultures you know grandma's in the

00:05:24.920 house and i'm like grandma is also a social person who has friends of all ages yeah absolutely and

00:05:31.860 and definitely now it stands to reason the the older friends that i have had would have young

00:05:37.840 friends because i would have been one of them i'm not a young friend anymore i am to my 100 year

00:05:42.960 old friend exactly but i think they they realized that there was you know their own friend they were

00:05:50.360 losing their own friends their age and so they needed new ones and you got to pick younger ones

00:05:55.260 this is the thing about like why i like being friends with younger people is that i'm not

00:05:59.500 i don't know everything that's happening in the world that's not my task anymore is to like

00:06:03.860 understand what's cool and new i need someone to show me and like a 20 year old is much more

00:06:09.940 equipped to do that absolutely um and i don't care about being humiliated by not knowing them

00:06:18.100 totally dancing badly i don't care so i'm like show me the debt show me the tiktok dance you know

00:06:23.200 And since I don't care about dignity, I'm totally, they're a muse too.

00:06:30.740 And why do you think in the US though, that like our social communities, part of it I

00:06:35.460 think is also that the US is so large, like physically, geographically large compared

00:06:43.140 to a lot of countries, not all countries, right?

00:06:46.080 But a lot of countries, the mobility, especially amongst college educated, middle class people,

00:06:51.880 like we just we move further away whereas in italy like even if you move out of the place where you

00:06:57.340 are exactly from it's still much easier to get home well i think that there is in in countries

00:07:05.160 like italy there is because of the low salary rate yep it's very hard to leave you have to

00:07:13.180 have this sort of access of like oh my aunt's apartment she died but it opened up so i can

00:07:17.800 move in otherwise you can't afford a place of your own so you're a little

00:07:21.680 limited by the possibilities of your family connections in the US we really

00:07:26.740 stress the idea of making it on your own and encourage moving around anywhere the

00:07:33.580 only thing that holds us back would be healthcare connected to jobs right which 0.98

00:07:38.360 they don't have right but you look at a place like China which is definitely

00:07:42.220 larger but I think that there are intergenerational there's definitely

00:07:45.520 people living in the home together yeah for sure I also think that we work so much that there's not

00:07:52.400 a lot of room for friendship or even just like when you talk about like your partner's uncle

00:07:57.660 coming every weekend for lunch a lot of people I know would never be able to make that work and

00:08:03.400 not just because they're working all the time but also because like they're traveling for their kids

00:08:07.220 soccer games or whatever like the rhythms of life do not accommodate these sorts of friendships as

00:08:12.840 much uh yeah i mean italians sure work hard but there i think what it takes is to is to actually

00:08:22.760 see the value in that relationship which at least among people i know either you got it or you don't

00:08:29.560 and like definitely my husband he and i both like any lady over 80 we are right next to her

00:08:35.680 at the cocktail party because that is an interesting person just by definition they've

00:08:40.660 had more life and that they're at the cocktail party and the way they're dressed you can tell

00:08:44.920 that's who you want to be next to and um they always respond well to us so i'm it's also because

00:08:53.120 i'm not at the cocktail party to make business connections or to meet a romantic you know i am

00:08:57.920 there to get a good story yeah i can sense who has a good story what was it like when you first

00:09:04.040 met your baronessa were you like am i supposed to be friends with her like what is the relationship

00:09:10.220 here? Is it a mentorship relationship? What was it like? Yeah, I wasn't quite sure. Like my

00:09:15.340 character in Villacocco, he is unsure even what his job is. And he is at one point, he says,

00:09:23.000 should I admit it? I was terrified of her. And I can't quite remember being terrified of her of

00:09:30.960 Beatrice now, but I'm sure I was, because she made it clear constantly how little I knew about

00:09:38.700 history, the history of art, about speaking other languages, about global literature and not just

00:09:45.700 English language literature, about how to dress, about what was appropriate to say at dinner.

00:09:51.020 And I had to learn all of those things. Yes. You were bringing up a memory for me. So I studied

00:09:56.840 abroad in France, in Nantes, France, during my junior year in college. And I lived with

00:10:03.620 Madame d'un certain age which is like a nice way of saying what we call now like an older lady

00:10:10.060 right and she was at the time in her 70s and was one of the few host families this was like early 0.99

00:10:18.820 2000s one of the few host families who was willing to host gay men and all of her like all of the

00:10:27.520 people that had lived with her previously almost all of them had been like gay men's male students

00:10:32.840 so she was very like didn't know what to do with me she's like what but she corrected like I would

00:10:41.360 leave her a note like I'm gonna miss dinner tonight or something and she would like correct

00:10:45.120 my French she would I mean just regale me with stories I like taught me I learned so much just

00:10:53.060 by the fact that it was just me and her at dinner every single night like how to think about a simple 0.93

00:10:58.820 French meal how to peel like a piece of fruit using a one knife and like have all of the peel

00:11:05.560 come off in one long string like so many things but I also like I think about that experience now

00:11:12.500 I learned so much more French than my peers who were with families because the families they

00:11:16.800 weren't like paying attention to her they were like whatever there's another kid at the table

00:11:20.600 like they're not that interesting but I had to sit and have these conversations and I was terrified

00:11:26.380 absolutely and like I still think of her now I'm sure she has passed but like we wrote letters for

00:11:33.300 like a year afterwards just like old school letters and she corrected my French still

00:11:39.040 and it was a really really important and influential relationship on me yeah I'm glad

00:11:44.620 to hear that I know we've got a we've got a handful of questions about seeking advice about

00:11:50.220 building and maintaining these friendships I like the tip of like finding the oldest person

00:11:55.260 at the cocktail party because you know that they're going to have a story, but we'll have

00:11:59.260 some more. So let's hear from Joy. I attend a crafting group once a month and a sewing guild

00:12:04.840 once a month. I've loved attending these groups and sparking conversations. I learn from these

00:12:10.540 women and enjoy contributing, but I'm struggling on how to interact and engage with these fresh

00:12:15.880 friendships outside of a monthly meetup. It feels far more difficult since we don't really text

00:12:21.700 and it's hard to invite someone out in front of a group of other people.

00:12:25.980 Do you have any tips on how to convert these structured intergenerational times

00:12:29.700 into a more formal or informal, genuine friendship?

00:12:33.920 So I love this.

00:12:36.000 I think everyone in this group would be like totally honored

00:12:39.060 if someone like Joy was like,

00:12:41.460 hey, do you want to like go get coffee sometime?

00:12:44.340 What comes to mind is for all of my friends who are much older than me

00:12:48.860 is that I've always tried to meet them on their terms and not set up anything like,

00:12:54.660 hey, I have a little time between here and here. Can you come over? I mean, that's not going to be

00:12:59.660 easy for them. So you have to go to them in some way. Now, what I think she's talking about is

00:13:05.740 how can you invite one person in front of all these other people? And I think that's hard to

00:13:13.400 say. I'm trying to, because I'm actually pretty good in social situations. I don't upset other

00:13:17.740 people yeah i might say can i have everyone's phone number um because i'd look and is anyone

00:13:23.540 free on tuesday for a coffee i can only meet one person at a time you know something so it's clear

00:13:28.360 you're trying to meet them all unless you are trying to meet just the one person yeah which

00:13:32.400 case you have to you know buttonhole them or whatever it's called totally buttonhole i think

00:13:38.180 that that's a great idea and also maybe you're like hey does do we want to does someone want

00:13:43.360 to hang out like outside of crafting time i'm gonna be at this coffee shop at this time uh like

00:13:49.280 on tuesday who wants to come and then some people will be able to come and some people won't and

00:13:54.460 then maybe like she doesn't there doesn't seem to be like a preference in this question of like i

00:14:00.200 only like this cool one right like she kind of just wants to get to know any or all of them and

00:14:05.900 i think that could work and i think the open-mindedness of the question is what's going

00:14:11.300 to make it happen because I have gone to meet new friends at their retirement homes you know

00:14:17.500 where they have a good cook and you know you just have to be willing to travel to them or

00:14:21.700 or just think a little bit about mobility or energy or or habits yeah the other thing that

00:14:29.640 this made me think of is I think that sometimes older people think of younger people as constantly

00:14:34.420 busy and if you say something that contributes to that understanding where you're like oh well

00:14:41.480 I'm so busy I can only make this time work could you make this time possibly work instead being

00:14:45.820 like here's a time that I'm available could I like is there a place where I could come meet you

00:14:50.440 like is there a coffee shop close to your house that you like like like you said really trying

00:14:55.500 to make it fit with their schedule it's really awesome yeah

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00:18:42.400 Okay, next up is from Donna, who has a similar question, but it's about keeping up a work

00:18:47.380 friendship without the work.

00:18:49.200 My work BFF is 35 and I'm 56.

00:18:52.840 We've been friends for almost 10 years.

00:18:55.200 We talk every day and are a big part of each other's lives.

00:18:59.280 Due to our schedules, we only see each other in person a few times a year, and he has kids

00:19:04.120 and I don't.

00:19:05.040 so our schedules and availability are very different. I'm thinking of retiring because

00:19:10.240 I'm pretty sure Mary Oliver would agree that this job is not how I should spend what's left of my

00:19:16.720 one wild and precious life. How can I prioritize a relationship that's important to me when we

00:19:24.060 won't have work in common? All right. I think you have some experience with keeping friendships

00:19:29.700 alive when you're not present. So what are your thoughts here? It's interesting because now we're

00:19:34.560 talking about i am now older than this questioner so we're talking about having a friendship with

00:19:39.420 someone younger yeah who's as you said seen as busy and having no time um and i do because i

00:19:46.320 live in two places i know that when i am with my friends i really need to be present and pay

00:19:50.700 attention and not let time pass yeah but luckily they already have two habits one of talking every

00:19:57.520 day and the other one of only seeing each other a couple times a year i don't see any reason why

00:20:01.820 any of that has to change yeah yeah I think like the you know just change the way that you

00:20:07.440 communicate from whatever your work like chat function is to texting and even if you're not

00:20:14.540 like find something else that you like to gossip about because whatever there was I'm certain like

00:20:19.120 if they become friends there's something that they like gossiped about to do with the structure of 0.96

00:20:24.340 work so what is another thing that you can kind of like talk shit about or talk you know talk about

00:20:30.500 lovingly maybe um and then i'm guessing too that they the reason that they would see each other a

00:20:37.320 few times a year was for like a work event right or a retreat or something like that you can still

00:20:42.400 like donna can still go to this person's city and be like hey do you want to hang out tonight like

00:20:48.060 let's go to a baseball game let's like let's go to dinner have your kids come too like there's so

00:20:53.540 many ways that you can go and do that i mean i of course i have no work friends because i'm all

00:20:58.980 alone but i certainly have friends who have had work friends in our in our friend circle where

00:21:04.460 the job is long gone but the friends are still here 20 years later even ones who have kids and

00:21:10.160 it's because they're getting something out of it from you yeah you have to just count on that fact

00:21:14.900 and not be insecure like why would they want to hold up hang out with an old guy like me

00:21:18.860 apparently they do yeah so in the way i want to hang out with my 100 year old friend and i'm

00:21:24.420 willing to travel to do it. And if it changes, it changes. But, you know, I think give him a chance

00:21:32.340 to be that he wants to continue it too. Yeah, for sure. Okay, next up is Katie. She's seeking

00:21:39.700 some very practical and relatable advice. As a Gen Z born in 2003, I kind of struggle connecting

00:21:46.740 with older generation. In general, I have an easy time talking to them since I grew up surrounded

00:21:52.080 by friends of my parents and kind of always talk to those people. But now through my university

00:21:57.900 sports program, I joined a group of 50 to 60 year olds and I'm meeting them once a week and doing

00:22:04.200 fitness. And sometimes I find it hard to find things to talk about with them. We're in such

00:22:09.580 different times in our lives and I feel like there's a big divide there in some cases. Do you

00:22:14.400 have any advice? First of all, I love that this person was like was born the year that I was

00:22:20.480 talking about studying abroad in france yes and i also love that this person joined a fitness group

00:22:28.440 that's with a ton of 50 and 60 year olds um what do you remember so you were 25 right when you first

00:22:36.000 like developed your friendship what what are you 30 35 35 okay well let's go backwards to our 20s

00:22:44.540 I, what did you, like, what do you have, like, I do remember.

00:22:50.160 I still was making friends with older people.

00:22:52.140 But I think I don't want to be friends with every 80-year-old out there. 0.96

00:22:59.000 True, true.

00:22:59.740 Right?

00:23:00.440 Yes.

00:23:00.800 So that it's just actually very particular 80-year-olds because I feel like, you know,

00:23:08.640 I don't like the idea of generations, Gen X.

00:23:10.920 I just find those super limiting because I'm not like a slacker, you know, indie rocker or anything like that.

00:23:18.620 I'm like an arty gay guy who feels like he doesn't belong.

00:23:24.620 And that feeling of not belonging is in older people, too, especially weird, arty older people. 0.87

00:23:30.200 Those are the ones I talk to because we have something in common, not belonging. 0.99

00:23:35.200 And they can show me how to belong.

00:23:37.900 And like other or weird arty movies I need to watch or things like that.

00:23:42.800 So I will say that given a group of not random, but self-chosen workout partners, I might

00:23:50.020 not automatically connect with them all the way I definitely don't with any age group.

00:23:57.260 Yeah, agreed.

00:23:58.120 And that like, I think sometimes we need that permission.

00:24:01.140 It's like, you're not going to like everyone on your dorm floor, or you're not going to

00:24:06.320 like everyone that you work with.

00:24:07.900 or connect with right like vibe with find like an old person interest of your own whatever that

00:24:14.900 might be and that can be a topic of conversation that allows you to then bridge into other things

00:24:20.800 that are more interesting so for me it was classic Hollywood like I was able to talk about the

00:24:27.360 different stars that I loved and like they had memories of those stars and what they thought

00:24:32.080 about them like who like which of their movies I hadn't seen yet that I should absolutely see

00:24:37.200 like that was a great point of connection i i mean i think you touch on the main thing which is

00:24:42.060 ask questions yes and be curious and you have to actually be curious about this person and assume

00:24:50.000 they have some incredible thing i certainly know um you know in my novel he's asking her questions

00:24:56.980 about her past and she has these ridiculous clearly somewhat invented stories to to tell him

00:25:04.880 But she also has hidden in there, there's going to be some kind of wisdom eventually.

00:25:09.640 And I found that with my older friends that if I'm curious about, like you said, old Hollywood or what Italian movies should I watch?

00:25:16.900 What Italian books should I be reading?

00:25:19.080 They have a lot to tell you.

00:25:21.020 And then not digging too personally, though, I think.

00:25:24.240 Yeah.

00:25:24.960 I also think at first, like, I like that Katie's like, um, it feels like there's a big divide in some cases.

00:25:32.440 And part of that is that some of the main things in her life, like how romance works or how school works or how the job market works, there is a real, real difference between when they were her age.

00:25:46.460 And I think sometimes there's this tendency to try to be like, well, when I was your age, this is how I felt.

00:25:52.200 So any way that you can avoid the conversation going that route, I think is excellent.

00:25:57.760 Yeah, it's fun just to hear, to get stories out of people mostly.

00:26:02.440 And I think for everyone involved to have a sense of humor.

00:26:07.780 Yeah.

00:26:09.120 Yeah.

00:26:09.480 Because I certainly, if I am a 56-year-old guy who still isn't over that thing that my friend said to me when we were 15 and I tell it like this, that is not someone you want to hang out with.

00:26:21.120 Because I, come on, get over it, dude.

00:26:22.940 It's been 40 years.

00:26:23.760 so i need to be able to tell those stories to younger people in a funny way that they might

00:26:32.240 connect to totally instead of just getting something off my chest there is totally in

00:26:36.980 this group of 50 and 60 year olds it like there is someone who is a great storyteller and i think

00:26:42.720 that i'm going to encourage katie to find that person okay yeah go katie good for you next

00:26:49.120 question is also from Katie, a different Katie. It's about making friends in the other direction.

00:26:55.280 I'm 37 and I'd love advice on making friends with people younger than me. I live in a university

00:27:00.600 town, so I'm surrounded by smart, interesting, younger people. But when we hang out, the dynamic

00:27:05.620 doesn't quite feel balanced. Even those who are only a few years younger than me often slip into

00:27:11.620 a polite talking to an elder mode, or they start asking me for advice about taxes or insurance,

00:27:17.160 like I'm an older sister. I noticed that I'm the one asking most of the questions,

00:27:21.880 doing the conversational legwork, and trying to keep things reciprocal, but it doesn't feel like

00:27:26.560 two peers relating to one another. I have close friendships with people who are significantly

00:27:31.220 older than me, and those feel genuinely mutual with a real give and take in terms of curiosity

00:27:36.400 and vulnerability. So am I just doing something wrong? Maybe I seem intimidating and have no idea.

00:27:42.600 Or is there an inevitable lag where these friendships can only become more natural

00:27:46.760 as younger people move through certain life stages?

00:27:49.720 Feel free to tell me.

00:27:50.540 I just need to be more patient.

00:27:52.240 Okay, so we got a ton of questions in this vein about being friends with younger people.

00:27:57.660 So I would love to hear your thoughts here.

00:27:59.840 And talk about any younger friendships that you do have that work.

00:28:04.900 I find it more challenging, but maybe that's because I usually meet older people

00:28:11.800 because they've invited a group of young people over you know um they've managed to um i know

00:28:19.280 that when i first got to san francisco the writer amy tan who i do not think of as an older person

00:28:24.360 uh but i guess must be invited me over for dinner even though she didn't know anything about me or

00:28:29.260 my writing just because she wanted new people around yeah and um so i will say that amy picked

00:28:38.960 the right person, because I was curious about her and her life. And she's so fantastic and vibrant.

00:28:46.280 And I think that's what you want in young people is their vibrancy. Now, maybe this group of people

00:28:51.920 is doesn't seem as curious. There might again, it's not going to be everyone. You know, there's

00:28:58.660 going to be someone who needs something from an older generation, who I think is open minded enough

00:29:04.800 and curious and open to the world

00:29:06.820 rather than a little closed

00:29:09.780 in the box of their generation

00:29:11.680 or who's simply a little doesn't quite belong

00:29:15.420 and needs that outreach.

00:29:17.660 And that's the person in the other direction

00:29:19.540 you need to find.

00:29:21.120 Now, if they're not asking questions,

00:29:23.360 then I don't think they're the right person.

00:29:25.360 Yeah.

00:29:26.040 Because they should be asking,

00:29:28.220 finding things out from you.

00:29:29.660 I also think like,

00:29:30.780 it's okay if they ask you for advice

00:29:32.700 on taxes or insurance.

00:29:34.800 Like, that's an opportunity for you to offer wisdom and then also to be goofy and change

00:29:39.820 it into another topic, right?

00:29:41.280 Like, that's a way of building intimacy.

00:29:43.620 Yeah, have a good tax story.

00:29:47.220 Totally.

00:29:48.260 You know, you'll develop them.

00:29:50.980 I also, I do think, like, what I do, because I, my husband keeps reminding me, he's like,

00:29:56.880 you're a friend group, you think of yourselves as young, but you are not young, you need

00:30:00.340 to meet younger writers.

00:30:01.600 um and so he's actually good at finding them because he's a part of his job is being a critic

00:30:07.760 for an italian newspaper a book critic so but luckily i like to throw parties and so i will

00:30:15.460 have these people i don't really know over to the party and they're they're so happy to be there

00:30:21.140 because it's a different situation they're entering the group the same way i entered

00:30:26.720 Amy Tan's group, you know, it's, you feel part of a world that you were outside before. And so

00:30:32.780 they're so fun to have around. They're delighted. They'll dance up a storm. And they'll be then

00:30:38.740 they'll write a thank you letter. Well, and this sometimes when you're older, right, you have the

00:30:43.920 practice and maybe the means to have like a cool party, like you have space to and enough silver

00:30:51.320 where to have eight people over right like you can have that infrastructure in place and then

00:30:56.560 younger people can come and you just set it up to to make it more fun um I love this question though

00:31:03.140 I do think that like it is a lovely service to provide wisdom in all of its forms and also to

00:31:10.840 provide like space to to meet young people and have that energy come into your lives like it's

00:31:17.960 It's maybe, maybe I guess Katie's feeling like she wants more of the energy and less

00:31:23.100 of the like respect and wisdom seeking, but it could get there.

00:31:27.440 It could get there because I mean, I, I think all of many people I know who are thoughtful

00:31:34.860 as we get older, we still feel in some way young and, you know, full of life and energy.

00:31:42.240 And maybe some people among our peers have kind of petered out in some way that doesn't

00:31:47.700 interest us or scares us uh i think it's such a smart remark to say that we have resources whether

00:31:53.700 it's money or your best friends of the guy at the door at the club because you dated him 20 years

00:31:59.400 ago all those things we have those resources that they don't have and it's not like to lay a trap

00:32:06.100 for young people it's to to give them freely and they those are things that they would love from us

00:32:14.920 You know, I think my 100-year-old friend, she invited people to her villa in Tuscany, you know?

00:32:22.180 Yeah, yeah.

00:32:23.740 And another older friend in Italy, he brought me slippers back from Venice that he said were exactly what I should be wearing.

00:32:32.600 And I didn't know anything about any of that.

00:32:34.720 And it was generosity that brought me in because they had the resources.

00:32:40.260 You know, another resource that I think younger people and older people have is time. And when people around my age, so I'm 45, like, if you don't have kids, I don't have kids. If someone doesn't have kids, they sometimes find their peer group very wrapped up in their kids and are like, well, they don't have a lot of time for me.

00:33:01.260 and in those situations I always say like you need to find people of different ages and different

00:33:06.340 life stages because you know who has a flexible schedule that they can hang out with me is a

00:33:11.740 retired person yeah yeah I will say my friend group in San Francisco at the top it's 77 and

00:33:19.320 at the bottom I think we're adding some younger people you've recruited them it's still only down

00:33:26.840 to like early 30s maybe 30 is the youngest yeah so um but that's a good span it's a great span

00:33:34.620 and we meet every friday for a beer we're gonna meet tomorrow so like and the 77 year old always

00:33:41.220 shows up the 30 year old always shows up the 30 year old then goes out dancing and the 77 year old

00:33:46.440 crabs about it but that's part of the fun you know yes oliver i hope you're listening

00:33:53.020 the culture study podcast is brought to you by blueland so the island where i live just entered

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00:36:12.980 I'm wearing a sweatshirt, jeans, and wool socks.

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00:36:36.100 Is my Lola blanket.

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00:37:00.360 and pulled up my Lola blanket and I was like I have never been happier in my life like I felt

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00:38:03.660 you. Wrap yourself in luxury with Lola Blankets. Our next question about intergenerational

00:38:14.680 friendships comes from Amy. Are age gap friendships where we are significantly younger than our

00:38:20.680 friends just ways to deal with our inner mother or father wounds? Okay, what do you think here?

00:38:26.060 That could be for some people. I don't have inner mother father wounds. Not particularly. I don't feel it that way at all. This is my hundred year old friend. She is not maternal towards me at all. It is friendship. Yeah.

00:38:42.460 Well, and that's, that's something that I think is really important is like having this person with wisdom who is not your parent, right, does not have that, like, that type of directional relationship with you. It can just be really magical to be liberated from that sort of relationship.

00:38:58.600 I mean, maybe it's a sort of uncle aunt. If you didn't have a fabulous uncle or aunt,

00:39:03.800 then they take the place of that. Because I mean, my aunt and uncle are fine, but they weren't very

00:39:10.400 much in my life. So I try to be the like crazy uncle to my nephews so that they can always come

00:39:16.960 to me if that's the kind of person they need. Totally. Well, and that's, I'm like an auntie

00:39:23.700 to many, many different kids. And I always want to be like, this example of a different way of

00:39:30.120 living and like, figuring out your life. But then also, I want to be someone who has always been

00:39:36.080 interested in them. And that to me is like, you know, we're not talking necessarily about being

00:39:40.800 friends with kids. But like, I think of my, like, I think of my these my friends, kids as my friends,

00:39:47.440 like I actually like hanging out with them. I like asking them questions, like they are

00:39:51.120 interesting to me and hopefully that translates into something as they age as well i'm just

00:39:56.700 thinking of a writer friends i know who have four kids who i've known since they were tiny

00:40:01.520 but we are friends they definitely see me that way yep um i'm interested in their lives but not

00:40:08.480 in the like oh i remember at that age i'm like oh my god i think your boyfriend's really cool

00:40:12.960 like tell me more yep he is really cool um or what they're wearing but you know they're all

00:40:19.660 vintage shopping vintage LP buying people like like I was so we do have that in common already

00:40:28.000 yeah well and maybe part of that is because they knew you their entire lives which is kind of cool

00:40:34.440 I think we're all bonkers and all those people should meet each other and leave the other people

00:40:41.320 alone I do think like the there's an interesting thing too when you're dealing with people who are

00:40:47.100 their own kids are slightly around your age. So these next two questions are very related to this

00:40:54.460 topic. So we're going to hear them back to back. This first one is a joint question from Austin

00:40:59.080 and Emily. Love it. Have never seen this before. Great. And Melody's going to read it.

00:41:05.040 Maybe we could talk about ways it's potentially awkward to be friends with older people who have

00:41:09.160 kids who are your age, especially if they have fraught relationships with those kids.

00:41:13.540 How can you maybe be friends with the kids that are your age and also be friends with their parents, especially if you were friends with the parents first?

00:41:21.340 And this wasn't a like, oh, let me set you up being friends with my kids.

00:41:24.980 It just happened organically.

00:41:27.220 And then the second question is from Tess.

00:41:29.560 I'm in my 50s and my friend Diane is in her 80s.

00:41:33.020 Diane has a daughter in my age range who lives nearby.

00:41:36.120 They do spend time together, but there is some tension in their relationship.

00:41:39.000 With the rise of people being estranged from their parents based on old or current grievances,

00:41:44.840 can you talk about how intergenerational friendships are able to sidestep that tension?

00:41:49.520 I don't have any baggage with Diane, so it's easy for me to take her at face value and

00:41:54.380 just enjoy time with her now.

00:41:56.620 Where do you want to start here?

00:41:58.340 I will say that with my 100-year-old friend, I am good friends also with her nephew, who

00:42:04.340 is the person who takes care of her.

00:42:06.140 and for the past 20 years we often sit and share a bottle of wine and talk about

00:42:10.860 taking care of her yeah um but again he's her nephew so it is a less complicated relationship

00:42:17.160 in many ways yes um wouldn't be everyone's favorite conversation to have with the new young

00:42:22.600 daughter substitute i my i have a really interesting situation here about um two of

00:42:30.780 four of the great friendships of my recent life so uh 2022 went on a bike trip with my partner

00:42:38.900 and on this trip we met two couples they are all now in their mid-60s and every year since then

00:42:46.260 we've gone on another bike trip we've gone on other trips we like go to see them they live in

00:42:51.040 marin in california and like this is an incredibly important friendship group to me now like they

00:42:57.860 I have enriched my lives and and have become incredible traveling partners and in part because

00:43:03.400 they are semi-retired so they can travel when we travel which is like September right when everyone

00:43:07.880 else is doing back to school but they're also just like so fun and interesting and uh political

00:43:14.400 and cool and they have kids who are around like seven to eight years younger than my partner and

00:43:25.100 i and i've never met them but like there's definitely there was like a little bit of

00:43:31.100 suspicion on the kids part that has been related to us by their parents of like why are you hanging

00:43:37.460 out with these young people like why are these young people hanging out with you there's like

00:43:42.200 almost suspicion yeah kind-hearted and they didn't think that like we were i don't know

00:43:46.300 exploiting them or trying to like get their passwords right no but like it is like someday

00:43:53.600 we will meet them I'm sure at like a 70th birthday party or something like that and it will be really

00:43:58.440 fascinating but for me it is a way to have someone you know they're they're all slightly younger than

00:44:06.640 like five to ten years younger than my parents it is a way of having this lovely textured

00:44:12.920 relationship and wisdom and like bond that isn't with my with my parents like I think that's

00:44:19.780 important i don't think it's necessarily trying to like heal a wound it's just trying to develop

00:44:24.080 more people in your life who love you yeah that's for sure i mean i i'm thinking about my friends

00:44:31.240 and i think that i have a more complicated relationship to my parents aging than i do to

00:44:38.240 these older friends aging because i'm like i'll be right there you can totally lean on my arm the

00:44:44.380 whole time down this rickety stairs uh let me get your phone for you i think if my mom asked me to

00:44:51.660 get her phone for her constantly i don't know i'd be like wear it around your neck lady you know

00:44:55.740 yes right i don't mind um um with my other friends somehow because it's less complicated and i don't

00:45:06.880 have that fear of love of like i don't want my mom to change yeah but what it's an honor to watch

00:45:14.720 these friends change in a different way yeah and i do like the the feeling that you're choosing

00:45:21.580 this relationship is somehow i think can be really special and i'm not saying that like

00:45:26.860 every parent child relationship is one of obligation or responsibility but sometimes i

00:45:34.960 mean that that's just part of it like that just sometimes is like a thing and and you do have all

00:45:40.340 of your past interactions and your past patterns and that can be true friendship as well but

00:45:46.940 especially friendships later in your life with people like it can be it just doesn't have that

00:45:53.540 baggage in a really lovely way I think yeah or even the hard conversations that kids have to

00:45:59.340 have where they're like you know dad you're going to have to move into a different house

00:46:03.180 with different levels and like if my friend wants to live in her crazy villa i'm like all right

00:46:09.820 good good luck i'll come visit you i'll come visit watch it down the stairs i mean i don't

00:46:17.500 need to say that right okay um it doesn't have the same sense of dire responsibility it's um

00:46:24.980 i'm i'm there to support in the ways i can but i'm also supporting my friend's um decisions

00:46:31.880 It's a really interesting question, yeah.

00:46:33.880 It is a really interesting question.

00:46:35.300 And I think sometimes we try to put friendships into different categories.

00:46:41.560 And is this a friendship trying to duplicate my friendship with my mom that I don't have?

00:46:48.120 Or whatever it is.

00:46:49.340 And they don't have to be categorized.

00:46:51.520 They can just be.

00:46:52.780 So to close, I would love just to maybe if you can describe a really wonderful memory

00:46:58.660 that you have of any intergenerational friendship?

00:47:02.700 I think it was, there's a character in my novel, Oscar,

00:47:07.400 who is based a little bit on my friend Max,

00:47:09.660 who passed a while ago.

00:47:12.100 And I remember sitting with him on a Tuscan hill,

00:47:18.240 eating cheese, and he said,

00:47:21.180 ah, cheese, how I love it so.

00:47:24.340 My heart gave out a few years ago,

00:47:26.400 and my doctor said I had to choose between sex and cheese.

00:47:32.120 And, Andy, I chose cheese.

00:47:37.660 And I thought, that has such nutty wisdom in it.

00:47:44.080 I just love that he chose cheese.

00:47:48.260 If people want to find more of you on the internet, where can they find you?

00:47:52.000 Certainly Instagram, AS Greer.

00:47:54.720 that's where you'll find me most ridiculously and give us another pitch for the book for us to close

00:48:01.900 yes oh you can also i'm on tour very soon um so catch me across the country um you can find that

00:48:09.060 on my website andrewgreer.com which i've had since 1999 that's how old i am uh i got ahead of all the

00:48:18.300 other Andrew Greer's born afterwards but it's you know I think it's it's it's a sunny and um

00:48:25.280 I hope delightful novel um and it has a little romance and some mystery and some some criminal

00:48:32.980 behavior because the people we know have a large deeper past than we think it is wonderfully

00:48:39.480 diverting I cannot recommend it enough it's perfect for this season and all seasons so

00:48:45.320 Thank you so much for coming on the show.

00:48:47.220 It's been a real pleasure.

00:48:48.480 Thank you for having me.

00:48:55.960 Thanks for listening to the Culture Study Podcast.

00:48:58.300 Today, paid subscribers got a bonus conversation between Melody and me about how to make friends

00:49:04.280 with people who have similar interests when all of your current friends do not have those

00:49:08.580 same interests.

00:49:09.920 Trust me, it's on point.

00:49:11.080 So if you want to support the show and be sure you always get that bonus content, head

00:49:15.660 to patreon.com slash culture study.

00:49:18.020 It's five bucks a month or $50 a year, and you'll get ad free episodes and exclusive

00:49:22.820 advice time segment and weekly discussion threads for each episode.

00:49:27.060 You'll also get access to the bonus episode that we released earlier this week, all about

00:49:32.360 off campus.

00:49:33.420 Be sure to follow the show wherever you get your podcasts, because we have so many great

00:49:37.900 episodes in the works, and I promise you don't want to miss any of them.

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00:49:45.400 a question for our subscriber-only advice time segment, go to our Google form at tinyurl.com

00:49:51.240 slash culturestudypod, or check the show notes for a link.

00:49:54.840 The Culture Study Podcast is produced by me, Anne Helen Peterson, and Melody Rowell.

00:49:59.160 Our music is by Poddington Bear.

00:50:00.640 You can find me on Instagram at Anne Helen Peterson, Melody at Melodious47, and the show,

00:50:07.100 which I promise I'm using the Instagram account now, at culturestudypod.

00:50:11.080 Thank you.

Culture Study Podcast - June 10, 2026

Intergenerational Friendships Rule

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