Culture Study Podcast - Taylor Swift and the Tortured Poets Aesthetic

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00:01:21.740 I think for a lot of people, when she first appeared on the Grammys red carpet,

00:01:26.540 obviously with with midnights being the thing that she was supposed to be you know she was

00:01:32.720 nominated for and that was going to be honored for that evening and all of these clues that we

00:01:37.400 can now see as red herrings of reputation taylor's version kind of looming over her and and lots of

00:01:43.520 people anticipating or thinking that we would be getting an announcement about that um for her to

00:01:48.940 have appeared that night in this, you know, bed sheet tangled up white gown, a lot of people were 0.58

00:01:57.320 like doing a double take of like, well, I guess I can see how that works her reputation, you know, 1.00

00:02:03.800 trying to like shoehorn it into reputation. Correct. Yeah. Trying to shoehorn it into, 0.98

00:02:09.780 you know, our expectations of what we thought would happen in the evening. But if, you know,

00:02:18.940 this is the culture study podcast and i'm ann helen peterson my name is sarah chappelle i am

00:02:30.780 a journalist and also a veteran swifty style reporter and i have a fashion account dedicated

00:02:37.940 to taylor swift's style it's an instagram account taylor swift styled and also a blog

00:02:43.620 taylorswiststyle.com. And as a result, I have had the wonderful opportunity to write a book

00:02:49.920 all about it. Amazing. I feel like a good place for us to start. And I have to say that a lot of

00:02:56.680 these ideas about good places to start come from our resident Swifty. I mean, I love Taylor Swift,

00:03:03.600 but like Melody loves Taylor Swift. And she has, she really comes to this with so much knowledge

00:03:09.840 that I appreciate really so deeply but so Melody's idea was like what if we start by looking at

00:03:16.900 Taylor's Grammy look and thinking about how you interpret it at the time and maybe how you

00:03:23.600 interpret it now. Yeah that look is really interesting because Taylor has definitely used

00:03:30.400 red carpets in the past to kind of serve as a launch board for the aesthetic of a new era

00:03:37.060 And so, of course, as we now know, that look was meant to tee up tortured poets.

00:03:43.460 And it's very interesting to, you know, look back on that look now, especially now that we have this album and obviously also the corresponding album visuals, the Fortnite music video and how that really kind of teed us up very nicely for.

00:04:00.420 there's so many you know kind of interpretations of this of this look whether you want to look

00:04:05.260 into the tangled bedsheets kind of intimacy because this album I would say is definitely

00:04:10.140 the lyricism is like more sensual and more overtly sexual than you know we've seen from

00:04:15.760 her in the past so there's a certain intimacy vulnerability feeling there one of the coolest

00:04:21.800 things about observing her style is is the intention that comes with it but also the

00:04:26.680 different ways that you can read it i'm also looking at her look from the grammys right now

00:04:30.600 and it's glamour right in terms of like old hollywood glamour both with the gloves that go up 1.00

00:04:35.940 like to her mid bicep the cut in the dress that goes all the way up her thigh which is a very like 0.98

00:04:42.140 old hollywood glam sort of style and even the hair like there's kind of a veronica like wave going on 0.96

00:04:48.940 like with her side sweep she's done that in the past like the old hollywood glam wave and she's

00:04:54.680 done it she's done it more effectively this one feels way messier which i think is also kind of

00:05:00.800 a neat tie-in to how intrinsically messy this album is like beautifully beautifully messy

00:05:07.000 and also the through line of um she's been she's been wearing um a single kind of braid in her hair

00:05:13.920 all throughout last summer when she was you know entering and exiting electric lady studios in new

00:05:19.060 York, where she was presumably recording a lot of this album, she had a tiny little braid

00:05:24.720 throughout her hair. And that was that was present at the Grammys, too, which I thought was

00:05:28.600 very interesting. And also, obviously, the the kind of Clara Bow stacked necklaces, too. Yeah.

00:05:34.840 Yeah. Say more about that, about why, like, why does that evoke Clara Bow? Because I have my

00:05:38.880 thoughts about why, but what do you think? I mean, I don't have like, as deep a knowledge of

00:05:43.700 of Clara Bow has so I've only seen you know the the portraiture of her with like the kind of

00:05:49.340 stacked necklaces I really liked how um how that was also evoked in the fortnight music video and

00:05:56.360 how it doubly sort of serves as you know she uses a watch face um yeah in the choker and I personally

00:06:02.680 really liked how that kind of puts a stop on the midnight's era and then ushers in and connects us

00:06:09.160 as like a through line into into this next next era i also think that there was like an emily

00:06:15.280 dickinson poem or something about um stopping time yeah which i you know there's there's tortured

00:06:21.720 poets obviously all over this album and i thought that that was like sort of an interesting possible

00:06:26.600 interpolation too yeah yeah when i look at this too i think you're totally right about the like

00:06:32.120 the style of the the stack necklaces but also just like you know this 1920s silent film like

00:06:38.400 clara beau was only pictured in black and white films and like there is some i think some slippage

00:06:44.940 going on with all these different eras which is fascinating because taylor swift herself is

00:06:48.960 is known for eras like there's a evocation of 1830s right which she's talked about is like

00:06:54.680 if you take away the racism and all the other bad stuff like it's a it's a cool time yeah um which

00:06:59.860 i would actually fight about uh and then this 1920s and then also like just like an overall

00:07:06.320 all romantic classical but also messy right so she's there's just like a lot of different

00:07:13.040 collage I think going on with the look which also to me that describes the album in some ways too

00:07:19.760 some people are like every song sounds the same to me and that doesn't that I don't I don't feel

00:07:25.000 like that it's really interesting to hear that kind of critique and I get it like that's totally

00:07:32.380 fine if you know something that you don't enjoy is when you're listening to an album as a body

00:07:39.000 of work is like all the things kind of smush into one kind of congealed thing and you can't really

00:07:46.380 discern differences between everything and that's that's not really for you that's totally cool

00:07:50.640 but in particular with Taylor that's a really interesting criticism because you know one of the

00:07:57.160 Because one of the main points of critique with Red was how frenetic the album was and how it felt really disjointed and it felt really off-putting to, you know, go from a song like Treacherous, which is, you know, this really beautiful, lovely kind of sweeping building ballad into I Knew You Were Trouble, which is, you know, a dubstep downbeat.

00:08:21.160 And then you and then you transition from I Know You Were Trouble to All Too Well, which, you know, beautiful sweeping magnum opus of a breakup song.

00:08:28.920 And a lot of people felt like, oh, that was really disjointed and really kind of weird.

00:08:33.300 And so her, you know, direct response was I'll create, you know, the most polished pop album that you've ever heard and call it 1989.

00:08:41.280 And it'll go on to become this watershed moment for me in my musical evolution.

00:08:46.700 So for people to, you know, say like tortured poets particularly feels too same, same is like

00:08:52.860 really fascinating for me. I don't feel that. I don't feel that way. But like, I just think like

00:08:57.680 within, you know, her, the growth of her discography, that that's such a fascinating

00:09:01.760 kind of critique. Like we've come full circle. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. So let's take a step

00:09:08.340 back because I want to talk more about your book and just about the idea of Taylor Swift communicating

00:09:12.860 via fashion. She's always communicating via her music, but she's also always communicating via

00:09:19.380 fashion. So from a broad perspective, how does she use fashion choices beyond just like clothing

00:09:25.000 itself? When you look at female pop stars, you know, I think a lot of them feel the pressure 1.00

00:09:32.560 of reinvention as, you know, brought to us by Madonna. And I mean, Madonna definitely pioneered

00:09:39.740 the erafication of her work but I think in terms of modern day nobody is like quite hitting it as

00:09:48.300 successfully and as like kind of broadly as Taylor is I mean there's a three-hour stadium tour

00:09:54.280 dedicated to you know the way that she's very creatively succinctly clearly delineated her

00:10:03.020 entire career and you know I just think as this generation's you know most prolific songwriter

00:10:08.840 I just think we're really familiar with like the confessional, emotional songs about her life.

00:10:14.620 But I just always thought that her style is half of that story.

00:10:18.540 And, you know, her music is the sonic representation of her story.

00:10:23.620 And then the other half is the visual half that iconifies every era.

00:10:27.780 And, you know, that makes moments memorable.

00:10:31.120 And I think the beauty of her music is that I can hear a song of hers and remember exactly where I was when I first heard it.

00:10:39.680 I can remember what I was wearing.

00:10:42.200 I can remember the weather of the day.

00:10:44.880 I can remember like a fight that I had with like a friend or something.

00:10:48.440 Like there are just so many.

00:10:49.600 And I think that that's the beauty of music is the transportive quality to it.

00:10:54.440 And I think that more than any, like her discography and her music contains that power.

00:10:59.780 But then the other half of it for her is, you know, distilling those moments, not just like for your life, but also like her life so that you can pull back through her career and say like, oh, I remember the first time she wore Ray-Bans and like what that represented for that era.

00:11:15.980 You know, like I remember I can I can vividly remember the first time that she wore a crop top in New York City.

00:11:23.000 And that was the launch of like the 1989 era fashion.

00:11:26.240 And so it's, you know, doubling down on creating this like language, not just of like music, but also that visual component and blending the two into this memory cycle.

00:11:38.100 Yeah. And I think she also speaks loudly, you know, and this is semiotics, the study of signs. It's like thinking about how something like a fashion choice can speak about how she's conceiving of herself in relationship to notions of femininity, notions of romance, notions of the past and storytelling.

00:11:55.620 And I think about, like, she is not photographed or she doesn't want to be photographed.

00:12:01.420 This is something that I think sometimes people miss is that anytime that we are seeing a

00:12:06.140 photograph of her, it's because she wants to be seen.

00:12:09.220 She has a very, very good security team and knows how to be private when she wants to

00:12:17.260 be private.

00:12:18.700 So if you see her on the street, if you see a picture that looks casual, and I don't

00:12:23.280 think she actually like she's not like calling the paparazzi it's more that like when she steps

00:12:28.060 out in public spaces she knows she will be photographed so she is also careful to be

00:12:33.280 styled right like to speak when she leaves her wherever she is because she knows it will speak

00:12:40.000 for her in some capacity and so I think about like the way her hair always is right or like

00:12:46.800 she wears a lot of tights goes through periods where she wears a lot of tights or like right

00:12:50.660 now just like so much street style or what I think of a street style because I'm an old person so

00:12:55.380 anything that like oh I could never pull that off that to me like signifies a street style to me

00:13:00.300 yeah um but yeah so like what's something that you feel like when she wears it speaks really

00:13:05.640 loudly to you or like even a way that she styles her hair or something like that yeah for sure um

00:13:10.860 I mean there's obviously there's so many examples throughout her career where you know I think not

00:13:17.460 only is it speaking to that memory piece and, you know, creating this, this visual moment in which

00:13:23.800 to anchor herself so that you can look back on and reflect it. But, you know, also what is she

00:13:30.220 trying to silently communicate before the music can speak for her? And I think, you know, that

00:13:37.580 that's a huge thing throughout her whole career. I'll like pull back like all the way to the

00:13:42.380 beginning for example like her and I talk about this at length like in the book throughout you

00:13:48.060 know capturing all of her musical evolution her fashion evolution and everything that she's trying

00:13:52.140 to you know say about herself through these visual components but going back all the way to

00:13:58.700 you know debut when she's this you know teenage country star at that time I mean her only her

00:14:05.120 closest contemporary would have been like Leanne Rimes in in that respect of yeah somebody really

00:14:11.840 young intercepting in a primarily predominantly older male space but even leanne rhymes like the

00:14:20.280 whole blue was popular and like was notable because leanne rhymes had a voice that did not

00:14:26.960 sound like it belonged to a teenage girl yeah and that's what made it notable taylor comes along

00:14:33.280 and creates an entire world and a defiant one where she is like i am a teenage girl i am writing

00:14:41.060 from a teenage girl's perspective this is important and nobody in this genre is talking

00:14:46.320 about it and taking it seriously and creating space for a whole demographic of people who could

00:14:53.180 possibly be enjoying this genre so I'm going to do it and you know she does that beautifully like

00:14:59.820 on the album itself you know documenting you know high school crushes and saying goodbye to your

00:15:05.000 college boyfriend like when you're still stuck in high school and all of these you know things

00:15:09.980 about that experience and what that means for young girls. And she does it wearing a sundress

00:15:17.180 and cowboy boots. And that is like an elevator pitch of an outfit that says, I'm a young girl

00:15:22.900 and I sing country music. And then to kind of top it all off, she would often use guitars by this

00:15:31.660 brand called Taylor Guitar. So if you see it at a photograph of Taylor from that time period,

00:15:37.460 you're seeing her curly blonde hair guitar that says Taylor on the neck cute little sundress

00:15:45.380 cowboy boots you can immediately say that girl's name is Taylor she sings country music she's a

00:15:51.020 young she's a young female and like that without saying a word without even having heard her music

00:15:56.300 and that is like visual mathematics you know creating like a easily identifiable and very 0.95

00:16:02.680 easily replicable formula for her fashion because that's not just something that she can replicate 0.95

00:16:08.060 time and time again as like a uniform dress plus cowboy boots um that's also something that her

00:16:13.820 fans can easily replicate i can go into any mall right find a cute little dress find cowboy boots

00:16:19.380 and and you immediately know who i am trying to replicate whose style i am referencing and you

00:16:28.660 don't need to you know have the exact designer that she is wearing but you're able to immediately

00:16:34.260 make that you know connection of of reference and that is that's her magic so one of the questions

00:16:41.240 that we got a lot of that I just instead of doing a single question about it Taylor appears somewhere

00:16:46.360 and you get the image and you're able to source where her outfit or her sunglasses or her banana

00:16:53.720 a clip, like you're able to source it so quickly. So how do you do it? Yeah. I mean, I've been doing

00:17:00.620 this since 2011. So I have a little bit of practice. You have a skill set. Yeah. I have a

00:17:07.420 very highly specific catered skill set. Yes. It can absolutely vary depending on the item in

00:17:14.620 question and, you know, the context that it's displayed in. And also helpfully, like the

00:17:19.460 quality of imagery is is always like a really nice thing in order to be able to do so what an item is

00:17:25.080 um some things are definitely made easy depending on how discerning they are like

00:17:29.680 for instance you know a gucci diamante bag is pretty easy to spot um other times it can be

00:17:36.460 obvious from just the the fabric involved or the cut of something one of the things about taylor's

00:17:41.860 fashion that i love and that i think a lot of fans love is um how relatable and accessible her style

00:17:48.900 is and you know she definitely has brands that she she favors and that she goes to time and time

00:17:54.120 again and for me and my eye there are certain like silhouettes fabrics patterns cuts and they

00:18:00.180 just have a distinctive style which is exactly what you want like as a brand to be able to have

00:18:04.880 somebody say you know see an item and be able to recognize it I mean we can't all be Christian

00:18:11.440 Louboutin and like there's a red sole and you just immediately know so there are certain things

00:18:15.300 that are you know there are certain things that are a little bit more subtle than that but that's

00:18:18.260 that's the goal I think of every fashion designer is to find an avenue and for people to be able to

00:18:23.760 recognize and see your art and your work and attach it to you so some items it can be like

00:18:28.920 a matter of minutes sometimes it's hours or days sometimes it's even years like there's there was

00:18:35.100 a navy fair isle sweater that she wore like many moons ago and it took me three years to find it

00:18:41.440 it's still like you found it it still haunts me like how long it took to find it but um yeah so

00:18:48.740 it can definitely it can depend well it's like a language that you're fluent in right like you're

00:18:53.580 fluent in the language of contemporary design so when you see a cut or a style like you can like

00:18:58.920 look at a couple different collections or that sort of thing so today we're talking about the

00:19:04.020 new album the tortured poets department and the easiest way that we could do this is like well

00:19:08.900 this song is about this person. And like, why does she keep collaborating with Jack Antonoff?

00:19:14.140 And like, everything is about that right now. And I think that like, there people can go,

00:19:18.580 we'll put some links to some stuff if people want to go deeper in those directions. I think that

00:19:23.860 because we're so lucky to have you on the show, we want to think more about the way that she's

00:19:27.600 using lyrics, fashion, the release schedule, all of these things to communicate things differently

00:19:34.080 about her image and she's doing it I think very skillfully right like there's there's a reason

00:19:40.940 she is arguably I mean her and Beyonce like I think periodically change slots right like it's

00:19:48.240 like they hand the crown back and forth from one another in terms of like the most important pop

00:19:53.880 stars of our of our generation and of our era but they both I think are emblematic of our era in

00:19:58.800 different ways and also emblematic of the music industry and different practices within the music

00:20:04.580 industry. So that's what we're going to kind of focus on for this episode. When did you start to

00:20:09.940 see a shift in Taylor's wardrobe as she was hinting this new era? Was it before the Grammy's 0.61

00:20:14.120 appearance? Yeah, I think when over the course of the summer, when we received the most amount of

00:20:23.580 street candids of her it was interesting to note a lot of similarities and past polls

00:20:32.480 from previous iterations of taylor's style and i think that that's and i think that that's one

00:20:39.440 thing that's really interesting is that you know i i often get people asking well like what's the

00:20:44.380 true taylor's style you know if she's constantly dressing up as different eras like how do you know

00:20:50.560 what her actual taste is if it's all just pseudo costuming for her next project and what I think

00:21:01.840 is interesting is that I feel like Taylor's style there are certain through lines in her fashion

00:21:07.980 that I think are present regardless of era and that's kind of what I was picking up on last

00:21:14.600 summer you know taylor is somebody who she loves you know cute pleated mini skirt and she always

00:21:20.840 has girl loves her clunky little chunky loafers and and like healed oxfords and she always has

00:21:30.200 um but there was certain like there were certain things it's it's really funny doing easter eggs

00:21:37.380 i feel like i most excel in being able to you know do the look back and the retrospect of like

00:21:42.880 picking up on the things in the past and not so much in the active present moment of of noticing

00:21:48.660 things as they happen and that's by design that's that's what she's doing on purpose

00:21:52.060 so it's interesting looking back you know seeing seeing certain things that you know kind of stack

00:21:57.720 out the jewelry stacking was wildly different for her which is also interesting given the

00:22:03.560 clara bow and like the the jewelry stack stacking on the on the grammy's red carpet that was very

00:22:08.580 interesting and like out of pocket for her typically the bustier style corsety sorts of

00:22:14.560 tops uh was was also kind of a a thinker for for a moment there those things all kind of came

00:22:21.240 together and then also new brands kind of kept popping up her reaching for the row more and more

00:22:28.500 was was interesting and notable for me you know this introduction of more quiet luxury if we want

00:22:34.300 you know if that term is still cool to use I'm like it's just luxury it's not quite a luxury

00:22:41.700 luxury sans logo if they yeah you know um yeah so those kinds of things were were also interesting

00:22:51.480 for for me to note and you know she obviously went on to wear the row in the tortured poets

00:22:58.300 album photo shoot and then she also wore the row in the fortnight music video so certain brands

00:23:05.500 also representing as kind of a key indicator of the of the era that we're in okay so let's get

00:23:10.740 into the listener questions this first one is from lauren is taylor perpetually two years late

00:23:15.600 to an aesthetic like with dirk academia is the whole point of taylor to be intentionally cringe

00:23:20.820 or is she just so millennially choogy that she can't help it okay so as you pointed out earlier

00:23:29.300 she has liked the loafers and that style for like a while yeah right like this is not she's not like

00:23:36.480 oh dark academia let's do it so i think she to me it looks like what her style is for tortured

00:23:44.940 poets is kind of like an amalgamation of like some of the other previous styles like the preppiness

00:23:50.980 the the like academia style and then make it a little darker I don't know what are your thoughts

00:23:56.080 here I mean in many ways yes I think there's a cohort of fans and this is my theory who she's

00:24:03.380 acquired in the last few years who maybe have a different idea or concept of Taylor Swift human

00:24:09.220 being either based on the works that they've exposed themselves to or maybe not being as

00:24:14.980 embedded in the in the lore and the journey but as somebody who has lovingly and frankly i just

00:24:23.280 think we could all stand to embrace and feel more comfortable with our inner cringe um and if we

00:24:29.140 want to uphold taylor swift as an avatar of somebody who embraces and is a champion of cringe

00:24:36.040 I think that that is beautiful and wonderful.

00:24:39.240 I also think that Taylor selectively participates in trends when she wants to.

00:24:44.480 And she'll often, you know, bend them to the extent of which she wants to take part.

00:24:49.160 I would also argue that the 70s aesthetic for midnights was perfectly timed to that particular trends resurgence.

00:24:57.740 So I think sometimes she nails it.

00:24:59.880 and I'll lastly say that I think that there's also an entire business economy in Taylor's

00:25:07.360 fashion choices and those in themselves result in trends on their own that are you know recognizable

00:25:13.560 easily traceable to her in its origin and I think much in the same way that you know the current

00:25:20.980 princess of Wales sets the world on fire like she doesn't set the world on fire with her style

00:25:26.220 but when but when she wears something people will come and the people will sell it out within hours

00:25:34.300 like if not you know minutes I've heard from so many you know independent small designers who 0.98

00:25:39.980 Taylor wears which I think is also a huge part of her intentional dressing to you know opt for 1.00

00:25:47.760 smaller designers often women-owned designers that when Taylor wears their outfits they 1.00

00:25:55.040 they sell out within like 15 minutes and that is power in its own so embrace cringe 0.93

00:26:03.800 yeah i just like whenever i see taylor dancing i'm like this this girl is awkward and that's okay

00:26:11.840 you know that's awesome like we know your strengths yeah know your limit play within it

00:26:18.660 and yeah but also like it's okay like she likes to dance yes it doesn't mean so it doesn't she

00:26:24.960 should be able to like dance or like when she's the the only one standing up at the award show

00:26:29.700 like throwing her hands in the air I just I bless her um but yes I think she is kind of cringe 0.95

00:26:36.540 and like I think that you know when people talk about oh like she just she's always talking about

00:26:43.300 a heartbreak like get over it like how old are you blah blah blah I'm like this it's good to tell

00:26:49.320 like it's good to normalize being in your 30s and like having emotions right yes like there's

00:26:55.760 nothing wrong with having emotions in your 30s I don't think we I think the whole point of life

00:27:00.100 is that we in fact do not stop having emotions ever even though we pretend I think that like

00:27:06.400 somehow strong emotions should be I don't know like quarantined to like your teen years and then

00:27:14.260 maybe in your 20s you can have some emotions but then you have to start growing up yeah and like

00:27:18.640 just working all the time and she manages to like funnel the emotions into the work and that's

00:27:25.340 another conversation about how much she likes to work which she does yeah and also and then also 0.86

00:27:30.260 in her fashion you know like I've seen you know critique of you know like why why hasn't her style

00:27:36.380 you know matured relative to her age and it's like you know certain items of clothing shouldn't

00:27:42.580 be off limits to you because you hit a certain age yeah okay so next question is kind of a like

00:27:50.260 expansion of this this first question talking about all of our ideas and together so this

00:27:55.880 one's from kira first of all love this crossover event i would love to hear more from sarah about

00:28:01.180 the concept she's touched on in the past about how taylor swift could be your high fashion icon

00:28:05.980 but she doesn't want to be. And how this idea has remained pretty constant throughout her career as

00:28:10.500 she's grown up in the public eye, and particularly how it relates to the curation of her image and

00:28:14.800 her career. Okay, so can you expand on this idea a little bit about how she could be much more

00:28:19.720 high fashion if she wanted to, but she doesn't? I mean, I think the common query is, you know, 0.97

00:28:24.220 why is Taylor Swift, you know, woman of infinite resources, still dressing intentionally, perhaps

00:28:33.600 like below stature like why isn't she out here like in street style you know wearing a freshly 0.99

00:28:42.640 ripped runway outfit why is she wearing something from free people what's the goal or the intent 1.00

00:28:50.280 behind that and and you know and also like why with all of her power influence and capabilities 1.00

00:28:57.160 is she not harnessing fashion in a way that certain people in fashion circles would like to 1.00

00:29:04.060 see her do so in comparison to name your it girl of the moment who's you know avant-garde fashion

00:29:12.140 that you currently admire and I would say I think that Taylor does do a great job of harnessing

00:29:17.480 fashion for her own means in the ways that are you know meaningful to her on the sphere and level

00:29:22.220 that makes sense within her contained universe of aesthetics i think she's been really effective

00:29:28.520 at you know orchestrating and commanding you know this three-hour show that neatly time travels

00:29:34.180 through all these distinct versions of herself that she's been you know over the last 20 years

00:29:38.660 of her career which i guess like the long-winded way of saying is this this which i think you know

00:29:44.160 culture study appreciates is the barometer for what shakes the earth and taylor's world

00:29:49.880 aesthetically is just it's simply different than other celebrities this the scale is like

00:29:55.600 inverted almost to the point where the more mundane the change the bigger the reaction

00:30:01.080 at like her hair like i'll just as one example of her image taylor making her hair straight

00:30:08.100 in 2012 and getting bangs was like this record scratch capital b capital d big deal like that

00:30:16.200 was a big deal and then like shedding the ringlets that she became known for and like was very

00:30:21.760 recognized for and also I think was like one of the earliest things that you know fans sought to

00:30:27.040 imitate again because it's a very easy thing like to you know just I for instance my mother put you

00:30:33.240 know those like quarter inch foam rollers in my head and I laid down and had them pressed into my

00:30:39.220 scalp overnight um in you know a valiant effort to feel more like her so subsequently then also

00:30:47.540 cutting her hair into a bob also huge gigantic crazy deal and like when I say this out loud it 1.00

00:30:55.120 sounds so pedestrian because you have like quote unquote it girls dyeing their hair trying on new 0.99

00:31:01.600 trends morphing before our eyes every day in order to be interesting and I just I highlight this style

00:31:06.560 journey in my book, but you can reach back all the way to, you know, Taylor's earliest days in

00:31:10.080 her career where she built, you know, that outfit formula of, you know, young female country singer

00:31:15.240 and she did it through her style. And I think what myself and a lot of fans appreciate is that

00:31:19.980 while Taylor likes to, and then maybe also sort of resents this requisite for reinvention is that

00:31:25.780 her street style specifically does tend to lean closer towards the everyday and the conventional

00:31:31.280 that I think people perhaps feel that she should be dressing as a celebrity, which is also so

00:31:36.460 strange because if she was out here flaunting like all of these high-end designer like things

00:31:40.200 it would it would also feel like oh she's so out of touch oh totally yeah well and that gets into

00:31:45.440 the like can she do anything right conversation for sure uh which i've written about on culture 0.58

00:31:49.720 study but i think that sometimes we forget that like celebrities have preferences yeah you know

00:31:56.200 what i mean we're like all celebrities should like the same things about being a celebrity

00:32:00.100 yeah and so i think someone like rihanna loves fucking around with fashion loves it it gives

00:32:06.200 her so much pleasure whereas I think my interpretation of how Taylor approaches fashion 0.91

00:32:13.640 is similar to how she approaches her lyrics and just generally like she thinks of it as a game

00:32:19.780 like where she can be clever the thing that gives her pleasure is more of that like planning do you

00:32:25.140 know what I mean instead of like I'm gonna like bust some people's eyeballs or like change the

00:32:32.120 idea of what flattering might be all of those different things like that's not her game i think

00:32:36.680 her well her career is just inherently built on making authenticity marketable yeah i describe it

00:32:42.400 as like she's friend shaped and she wants to be seen that way and maybe you know in light of her

00:32:48.760 wanting people to be like afraid of her per torture poets track 10 yeah that may be in question so but

00:32:55.420 like when people say she's intentionally dressing down to see more appealing i say like yes

00:33:01.300 that's true but just like how she kind of reclaimed this term you know calculating used to be this

00:33:08.760 like really ugly word um and i don't know why her wanting to seem accessible in her fashion it just

00:33:16.500 seems like the latest like pokemon evolution of that criticism of that word and just why i just

00:33:23.640 don't think that she needs to change something that's not only you know profitably parasocial

00:33:28.120 but also something that you know maintains something that is true for you and I think

00:33:34.560 you know the pantsless trend creates talk and intrigue but you know but Taylor Swift creates

00:33:39.980 talk by breathing so like why wouldn't you just look cute when you're doing it and like a 0.98

00:33:44.040 recognizable version of yourself that fans are like yes that's Taylor I recognize her right so

00:33:49.100 like you know I think like I put her too in this long lineage of quasi girls next door right like

00:33:56.360 no one's like why is Reese Witherspoon not wearing more high fashion it's because it's

00:34:02.720 not her image it's not who like that is not fit with how she has constructed her image to like

00:34:08.140 wear things like that yeah and so I don't think that Taylor Swift has a desire to be wearing high 0.95

00:34:15.160 fashion and she's like oh well I can't because like it won't fit with my girl next door image 0.92

00:34:19.240 like she does actually I think push some of those boundaries in terms of like she's not always

00:34:23.840 dressing preppy she's not always doing dark academia she's doing all sorts of different

00:34:27.860 interesting things to my mind as you know like someone who is not super plugged into high fashion 0.91

00:34:33.680 but I can see how someone might think like oh she could be so much more experimental but that's not

00:34:39.620 who she is yeah and I mean sure like a you know a fashion editorial moment for the New York streets 0.97

00:34:46.040 would be super fun to see her experiment with and play with but like that's where that's that is 0.93

00:34:51.640 like that's where those opportunities where you get to play with that's where she gets to play

00:34:54.960 with that and i just think that she feels more comfortable wearing what she wants to wear and

00:35:00.900 that fans find it more fun and interesting when it's like ah yes i too would like that top i could

00:35:08.180 wear that right so let's talk a little bit about the actual album okay there are 31 songs i admit

00:35:13.820 that i have mostly dedicated myself to the the boundaries of the traditional album this single

00:35:20.700 album before it became double album and how they contribute to the overall Taylor mythology. So

00:35:26.180 let's hear from Leslie about this. I read the New York Times review of the album that had the

00:35:30.700 headline, The Tortured Poets Department Needed an Editor. And that's a critique that I feel

00:35:35.840 about a lot of media these days. And I like this album. Digital media seems to incentivize quick

00:35:41.940 production and gives us no boundaries. Albums and songs can be any length, books can be produced

00:35:46.940 extremely quickly, etc. It brings to mind the creativity advice that boundaries and limits

00:35:51.900 actually feed creativity and don't limit it. In the case of this album, I think Taylor Swift's

00:35:57.440 huge fan base enables her to create whatever she wants and still succeed. And that could be a

00:36:02.700 blessing and it could be a curse. But what do y'all think? All right. As someone who writes a

00:36:07.860 newsletter that publishes twice a week, I have thoughts on this. The answer that I have is

00:36:14.360 somewhat about Taylor and somewhat not about Taylor because I think that the question asker

00:36:19.900 is correct that the way that the current industry operates, and this includes newsletters, it

00:36:26.860 includes podcasts, like unless you are producing, you are not making an income. And so because we

00:36:32.580 do not have apparati that support people even when they are not releasing product, it has created

00:36:39.180 this compulsion that like you have to be producing all the time and i think that it's true like i

00:36:45.340 would write better stuff if i wrote only twice a month that sort of thing but it wouldn't create

00:36:51.200 the same sort of engagement with me engagement with the community all that sort of thing and

00:36:58.280 i think that like sometimes people who are making that argument about like less can be so much more

00:37:05.240 I absolutely agree. But the the way that the market operates does not support that. And so in some ways, what's happening with the sheer amount of product that Taylor is releasing is an extension of that logic. Here's how I would have done it. I think the album itself is really interesting. I think like what I have been listening to as the album, it used to be that you would have all of these other songs that didn't make the album.

00:37:31.800 and then you would release them like several years later as like b-sides outtakes like they

00:37:37.760 would be secondary content that informed the primary content but still like understood as

00:37:42.720 secondary like stuff that did not make the cut and I think what Taylor is somewhat doing and

00:37:48.860 maybe this is part of the like she needs an editor critique is she's making everything primary

00:37:53.320 content yeah what's your take on this especially as someone who is a content creator yeah I mean

00:38:00.100 I do think that restraint is a skill set um yeah that is and that's one I don't have uh so like I

00:38:08.520 admire I admire people who are you know concise and who are capable of getting all of their

00:38:15.280 feelings across and you know a tweet or less and I that's admirable and that's a skill set but I

00:38:21.260 would just say that like and so yes having the space to produce less and have that be more

00:38:31.340 meaningful as its own standalone is a blessing and I think Taylor has that runway in truth like 0.99

00:38:36.600 she is Taylor Swift she has that runway should she should she have wanted to take it she has that

00:38:40.560 but I think 100 but I think right now Taylor feels comfortable being able to take advantage

00:38:47.180 of the momentum that she has to make art that will undoubtedly be successful but doesn't need

00:38:54.680 to be made with a checklist in mind and we saw that with like folklore and we saw that with

00:38:59.200 evermore and strangely i think being boundaryless has seen her in this crazily hyper drive of

00:39:08.400 creativity like bear in mind that like since switching labels following the fallout from her

00:39:13.000 masters with big machine she has produced one and a half times her life's work from big machine

00:39:19.880 in half the amount of time which is insane yeah um that's that's a crazy crazy statistic um yeah

00:39:27.700 but like i she once famously said during lover that lover would be her last chance to grasp at

00:39:36.220 a truly commercially successful album and that was in 2019 and whether because she thought you

00:39:43.540 know or feared public opinion would no longer permit her to be successful or you know the

00:39:48.860 nothing new clara beau anxiety of being replaced by someone younger and more interesting as you

00:39:54.620 know pop tends to favor the young wizarding its ugly head but you know of course we're now on the

00:39:58.500 other side of lover and she's you know created multiple albums on the back of artistic creativity

00:40:05.680 without a to-do list. And I think it must feel so incredible for her to be able to make art

00:40:10.600 without boundaries and trust that at least like a huge subset of her fans will be seated for this

00:40:16.980 journey. And I think that the point on Poets about needing an editor is like that very well may be

00:40:23.380 true. But I think the point is, is that she did not want an editor. And this album is, you know,

00:40:29.500 bloated by artistic choice and not artistic error that is such a great way of framing it that like

00:40:37.460 she is choosing to be excessive here like she wants it to be too much yes in terms of emotion

00:40:45.800 songs too much like yes absolutely i just you know and that's she's shutting the door though

00:40:53.060 she said this multiple times like i needed to get it out yes like i needed to get all of these

00:40:57.760 emotions out and now I want to shut the door on that period in my life for sure and I think you

00:41:02.540 know she needed to get this album out with as many eyes as are on her as possible so that you

00:41:09.300 know the runway for TS-12 you know whenever she decides to put it out you know she's able to

00:41:15.120 breathe a little clearer um you know with the elephant in the you know studio with her of like

00:41:21.700 you know this monumental breakup that everybody wants to know all about and you know that's kind

00:41:24.880 of past her but i just think we have 1989 like the recent re-recorded 1989 like is like very

00:41:31.720 close in our rearview mirror and i would call 1989 standard her tightest like most patent leather

00:41:40.160 polished piece of pop and like taylor has demonstrated she knows how to write a concise

00:41:45.660 and snappy pop song so she's she's fully capable we know that she is capable of putting you know

00:41:52.240 an entire world in you know a single line and she's exhibited that like many times over so this

00:41:58.060 album you know effectively this is an album capturing a woman's descent into madness and

00:42:04.120 i just why should an album like that be concise right well and this is it's also one of those

00:42:13.000 things that i think is hard to understand in the moment of release and maybe becomes more legible

00:42:20.460 in the context of her discography looking back I think about how people talk about like

00:42:27.820 when Bob Dylan went Christian and like had this whole Christian period in the 1980s right like

00:42:33.860 you're like huh that happened like as an artist you go through different periods different styles

00:42:39.620 different modes of release like all of these different things and so I think like I understand

00:42:45.180 why that is the conversation that people are having in this moment but I think that the

00:42:49.940 conversation will change as we get further away from this moment the other like the only thing i

00:42:55.980 will say is that i often too feel the need like i just need to write this i need to write all of

00:43:01.840 this right and then sometimes what i really need to do was to write the paragraph and then delete

00:43:07.960 it and i needed to write it for me and the piece became better for me like and a lot of writers i

00:43:15.400 know do this they keep it in like a separate google docs they're like oh that was such a good

00:43:19.820 It was such a good paragraph. I just can't get rid of it. Right. So they keep the baby just to keep it around just in case. But the end piece is better because they edit it. And so like, yes, would this have been a tighter, more coherent project if she cut the number of songs in half? Arguably. Is she doing something different by keeping it long? Is she speaking differently by keeping it long the way that she has?

00:43:44.380 Absolutely. Yeah, for sure. She has simply proven herself as an artist that she has that in her in her toolkit and for her to intentionally not wield that here says something.

00:43:57.080 And in the moment, perhaps the criticisms are completely valid. But when you, you know, do the bird's eye lens looking at, you know, an artist's discography over the course of many decades, I think it'll be a really I think that this will be a really interesting time period.

00:44:12.320 and you know reputation didn't get her flowers until you know years out totally and that's fine

00:44:19.600 like criticism in the moment and then allowing you know the art to steep over over a period of time

00:44:26.000 and I think that that's also like kind of the intent with this too is it's kind of like a time

00:44:29.580 release album I mean it's 31 songs like there's no way for you to like to you know absorb everything

00:44:36.820 that quickly. So I think, you know, this is a slow time release medicinal album that will take

00:44:43.020 a long, long time for us to kind of all wrap our brains around and come down from. And that's,

00:44:48.560 again, by design. I kind of like that. All right. All right. Let's hear the last question. And it's

00:44:56.140 about like the vibe of the album versus the Taylor that maybe is out there living her own life right

00:45:01.200 now. This question comes from Kayla. Might the tortured poet's department represent a slide

00:45:06.200 downwards from the popularity Taylor Swift reached. I have a feeling the record isn't going

00:45:11.140 to be a fan favorite. I found myself disappointed on first listen, which is fine, you can't win them

00:45:15.940 all. I can't help but think about how her star image may be impacting how I'm receiving it.

00:45:22.020 She's oversaturated even to a huge fan like myself. She's a newly minted billionaire who's

00:45:27.460 seemingly constantly winning, yet this album suggests her current era is sad. I know it's art,

00:45:33.800 but it doesn't seem to reflect what I'm seeing in her public image right now.

00:45:37.480 Okay, I love this question because we compare it with the release on YouTube Shorts, which is like

00:45:44.400 this thing on YouTube that is trying to compete with TikTok and clearly paid Taylor Swift some

00:45:49.600 money to release a little short video on YouTube Shorts of all of these snippets of her life

00:45:58.360 over the last, it looks like the last six months, right? And to me, it is such forceful

00:46:04.860 counter-programming of the vibes of torture poets. It's like, yes, it's like, I'm having a

00:46:13.160 great time actually. Yeah. And I mean, I, um, I talked about this on my Instagram too, how it

00:46:20.140 harkens back. It does a few jobs. One, it harkens back to, you know, her MySpace days where,

00:46:26.400 you know in the in the early early days of her career what made her stand out was you know her

00:46:30.680 presence online um and you know cultivating that fan connection very early on and she you know had

00:46:37.000 this myspace page and she would upload these like super cuts of like vlogs from the road uh with

00:46:43.540 little with little like home home clips and one to me it harkens back to that time which is nice

00:46:50.980 for like an OG fan to to recognize and two it also like serves as this really nice reminder to

00:46:56.900 people of again her saying you know this chapter in my life is over I closed the door on this time

00:47:03.820 period I needed to make this album because this is what I was living in and now my life looks

00:47:08.840 much different I think it's an incredibly gutsy move to release an album that doesn't seem

00:47:13.620 particularly manufactured for widespread appeal or praise like and we've seen you know poets to me is

00:47:20.780 it's a very dense album and I think for people who are invested in her cinematic universe we

00:47:26.040 want to understand and we are up to the job of pouring over the lore untangling all the flowery

00:47:32.320 language going through all the metaphors that are on display and I just Taylor Swift is a chronic

00:47:37.260 overachiever people pleaser and I'm like raising my hand as somebody who is like part of that group

00:47:42.500 so I just don't think you can ever fully count her out of like wanting to be liked but I think

00:47:46.880 the evolution of her artistry on display here is that she did not put out this album necessarily to

00:47:51.760 be liked and I think it's particularly frightening to do when the opportunity to make something

00:47:56.940 palatable to this newly found audience who's you know bought into your corner of pop culture and

00:48:04.320 are hanging on every word you say it would be easier to like gently usher them in like to this

00:48:10.840 like second wave of fandom that you've gotten but i just think she's you know created this art that

00:48:17.520 she needed you know to make in a hurry with all of this attention that she had on her to make

00:48:23.520 you know more space and create more atmosphere for oxygen for her next project and i think you

00:48:29.680 know i think it's understandably very grating to hear complaints from people who like for someone

00:48:35.320 who like seemingly has it all and has been very publicly writing a professional high um that's

00:48:41.220 you know been stunningly maintained to the point of it you know being a master class in narrative

00:48:47.100 containment but unfortunately and i think what this album proves is that you can't

00:48:51.620 buy your way out of depression yeah no this is like i love how people are like she has nothing

00:48:58.400 to be sad about i'm like people successful people are sad all the time

00:49:03.320 like that's a very common thing amongst successful people because they're working all the time but

00:49:10.160 also because they have heartbreak like everyone else in the world but i think that okay here's

00:49:16.560 one thing that i've been thinking about like a lot of people in their 30s you reach a point

00:49:21.100 and i think this is particularly true from people who have succeeded according to society's

00:49:27.580 understanding of what success should look like right like fit themselves into the parameters

00:49:31.720 you have find a point where you look around and you think like okay I did what everyone else said

00:49:37.340 I should do and I did it really well but do I have any sense of what I actually like do I have

00:49:44.200 any sense of who I actually am outside of other people's expectations for me and I think and this

00:49:50.520 actually contributes to some of like the feeling of authenticity and relatability is that she is

00:49:55.260 going through that right now she's like I'm figuring out what I actually like who I am yeah

00:50:01.700 and what that looks like and this sort of catharsis is necessary for it but then also you know we can

00:50:07.680 apply this to the style we can apply this to I think the way she's talked about this publicly

00:50:13.520 so I don't feel creepy talking about it but like she really grappled with her body image for a long

00:50:19.360 time and feeling really bad about like putting things into her body because she wanted to look

00:50:23.340 like the models that were exemplars of femininity to her and saying no I need to eat for power I

00:50:29.940 need to eat for stamina I need to eat like and feel comfortable in this body and in a lot of

00:50:34.760 ways it feels like she's arriving at that point in her music too or even just in her image too

00:50:40.460 well who who do I feel comfortable with what is my version of this love story yeah I mean I think

00:50:46.020 and understandable if you haven't gotten that far because it's like wedged deep deep down like

00:50:50.860 in the 31 song track list but I think it's what makes the prophecy so tragic is you know she

00:50:58.040 talks about in that song like I don't want money I just want somebody who wants my company yeah

00:51:03.860 she emotionally she went through one of the most significant personal yeah upheavals in her life

00:51:09.680 and she had to deal with the fallout of it in real time with you know tens of thousands millions of

00:51:17.120 people either in stadiums watching her every move on like big stadium screens like trying to

00:51:22.600 interpret you know whatever from the the glassiness of her eyes during a particular song or you know

00:51:29.400 yeah like you know like she was she was dealing with something really hard and I just think

00:51:37.680 having the prophecy on this album is really really you know telling and so tragic and it's just like

00:51:44.220 having billions of dollars doesn't give you immunity from you know the walking red flags

00:51:53.180 and leather jackets and cigarettes in your life like you know for like from like that's from like

00:52:00.620 like these like british men like saying you know promising you the world and like it doesn't

00:52:07.360 shield you having money doesn't shield you from some british dude stomping all over your heart

00:52:13.280 when you're already at your worst no i think i think there's this weird assumption that like

00:52:18.100 oh she's taylor swift every guy would just want to be with her all the time and it's very clear

00:52:23.400 that like sometimes romantic partners have weird stuff of like self-sabotage or like resentment

00:52:29.880 and all sorts of things like while you're listening to this you have to forget that she is

00:52:34.820 a billionaire because like it doesn't matter you can still get screwed over in your relationship

00:52:40.260 if you have a lot of money and you're beautiful, right?

00:52:42.680 Like that doesn't make you immune.

00:52:43.920 I would, in fact, like argue that it makes your mistakes

00:52:48.580 and your quote unquote failures magnified that much more

00:52:53.780 because, you know, you're trying to be a human

00:52:57.720 and you're grading against all of these expectations

00:53:01.360 and people that tell you you're actually not human

00:53:04.060 because you have X, Y, Z on your resume and all you want.

00:53:09.600 And I think all that she wants in this work, especially, is for people to recognize the human of it all.

00:53:19.220 And I don't think she wants sympathy, per se, right?

00:53:21.340 Because I think sometimes the sadness in these songs in particular, I have seen it interpreted as like, oh, she wants us to feel sorry for her.

00:53:30.120 And I don't think that's what she wants, right?

00:53:31.800 I think she wants to express a complexity of emotion that is relatable to a lot of people.

00:53:38.560 like listening to these songs really took me back to a lot of fucked up relationships so many

00:53:43.560 so so many like that is useful and it is useful it is a useful tool for me to revisit them and 0.76

00:53:50.760 to be able to see them with this perspective of like man it felt so intense and shitty in that

00:53:56.840 moment and i am so much stronger now than i was then i think the idealized pipeline for taylor

00:54:03.200 when it comes to you know ingesting her art is that she writes to understand herself she releases

00:54:10.260 it so other people can understand her we sit with it so that we can understand ourselves and then

00:54:16.840 ultimately take that art from her and make it about that connective tissue between our two

00:54:24.240 shared experiences so that it's not about guy who tried to use your mutual friend as a drug dealer

00:54:31.660 who you know like that it's not about that guy anymore like it's it's about a guy with that sort

00:54:40.080 of behavior but not that exact sort of behavior right yeah it's and it's and it's meant to

00:54:45.880 transcend and become like about these were my experiences I'm sure you've experienced them too

00:54:52.960 let's experience them together so that we can get over it yeah it's about feeling your feelings

00:55:03.100 which is important i think no matter your age like validating feeling your feelings yeah

00:55:08.160 and then also that understanding that like there's another era beyond this one that feels

00:55:14.940 really claustrophobic it feels impossible like there will be more life there will be more

00:55:21.720 eras to your life that sounds cheesy but it's so real like i think of my life in those terms

00:55:27.480 and and they don't have you don't have to have an is i guess my aesthetic is like

00:55:31.820 i used to wear more like sevens jeans in the 2000s and then i was in my skinny jeans era

00:55:39.600 and now now i'm like somewhere in between i like can't go for your gardening overall

00:55:45.960 yeah I'm in my gardening overall garden witch era and that's but like again like you're able to

00:55:53.640 not to bring it all back to fashion but you're able to you know identify parts of your life

00:55:58.260 with you know how you were expressing yourself and part of that expression was what you were wearing

00:56:03.180 yeah there are so many moments you know I look back on my life and I can remember you know when

00:56:07.920 I used to only wear eyeliner in the in the water line and nothing else

00:56:14.360 that's an era like that was a time I you know I remember you know being told when I was very

00:56:25.720 very young and I was you know in ballet classes and being told like oh you're in ballet because

00:56:30.900 you're a girl and that's why you don't wear blue and then proceed like smash cut quits ballet

00:56:37.160 plays soccer exclusively wears blue denim blue everything um and like you're dressing you're

00:56:45.060 dressing for an era and you're dressing to prove a point and you're dressing as part of your

00:56:48.600 personality and your values and what you want to communicate about your life and your preferences

00:56:55.600 and that it's just beautiful language of fashion i love it this is a perfect place for us to end

00:57:01.340 up I have had so much fun talking with you I cannot wait to get my hands on the book and

00:57:08.160 everyone follow the Instagram account it's like the highlight of my day I just love looking at it

00:57:12.520 thank you and your commentary is so smart that's so nice so if people want to find you what's the

00:57:18.140 handle for the Instagram account one more time it's taylorswiststyled and I am also on taylorswiststyle.com

00:57:24.660 and my book tailors to style fashion through the eras which is you know the definitive

00:57:30.460 swifty style book um it's out october 8th it's available for pre-order now and i just

00:57:38.120 fully believe it's this stunningly packaged thing that's beautiful inside and out and i'm really

00:57:43.940 really proud of it and i can't wait for people to dive into the nuance and the discussion and how

00:57:48.760 you know this incredibly savvy smart person has crafted such a compelling

00:57:56.200 lifetime of style and music seriously this was so fantastic it was such an honor

00:58:02.940 thank you so much for listening to the culture study podcast right now over at the podcast

00:58:13.120 substack we are talking about all of our opinions about this album and we can talk about things that

00:58:19.600 we didn't get to if you asked a question that didn't get answered here how you would reorder

00:58:24.980 the album are you listening to just the first album like i am uh what your favorite taylor

00:58:31.240 swift aesthetic is whether or not you have ever found out that you own something that taylor swift

00:58:37.100 also owns. It's all fair game, and it's all over at culturestudypod.substack.com.

00:58:43.800 And also a reminder that we have so many great episodes in the works, like an exploration of

00:58:48.400 generational nostalgia, a deep dive on all of the discourse about the British royal family and how

00:58:54.500 it differs from place to place, and a big grab bag episode that we're calling Strong Opinions 0.98

00:59:01.360 About Trivial Shit. If you want to suggest a topic, ask a question about the culture that 0.93

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00:59:56.000 to take full advantage of all your perks. The Culture Study Podcast is produced by me,

01:00:00.120 Anne Helen Peterson and Melody Rowell. Our music is by Poddington Bear and you can find me on

01:00:05.040 Instagram at Anne Helen Peterson, Melody at Melodious47 and the show at Culture Study Pod.

01:00:20.780 Melody, is there anything that we missed? We good? No, it was amazing. I'm so happy.

01:00:25.380 melody were you surprised by the two travis songs yes i still haven't decided what i think about

01:00:33.180 them except that so high school keeps getting stuck in my head so i guess i like it the alchemy

01:00:39.360 honestly feels a little bit like i need to write a song about travis so like i'm gonna just like

01:00:45.860 write one real quick it doesn't feel like fully baked to me but i think so high school is very

01:00:51.420 fun i like that so high school sounds like a song that travis would like totally i'm convinced

01:00:59.820 that's where it started i think the thing that's most misunderstood about tortured poets is that 0.99

01:01:04.660 it is like tortured poets is simultaneously the most fucked up shit you will ever hear in your 0.98

01:01:10.880 life and like top tier like stand-up comedy hours like there is like there's so many things that are 0.99

01:01:18.860 so funny that i'm having his baby is the funniest thing she has ever done that's the funniest

01:01:25.080 you know how to you know how to ball i know i know oh my god i literally like screamed not like oh

01:01:32.820 my god i screamed but like i screamed the the jehovah's witness line that was very good

01:01:40.640 i was like and like people are taking it tattooed golden retriever like it's yeah no ai wrote these

01:01:49.720 lyrics like are you kidding me no it's and like this is what i was talking about with like the

01:01:54.560 cringe like you don't understand she's being funny like yeah yes yeah and the number of songs she has

01:02:03.020 about men not laughing at her jokes it's like this woman this woman wants you to think that 0.76

01:02:09.900 she's funny if there's anything inherent to like her discography it's damn it somebody laughed at 0.84

01:02:15.860 my jokes but she's easy and that's okay like she's a dad joke like she's like dad joke personified

01:02:22.260 you know like and it's totally okay yes well we're gonna include some of this as like a bonus

01:02:29.240 easter egg in our podcast oh my god track if you will this is our fault track at the end of the pod

Culture Study Podcast - April 24, 2024

Taylor Swift and the Tortured Poets Aesthetic

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