Culture Study Podcast - Who Are The Heartthrobs of 2026？？？

00:00:00.080 Hey everyone, just wanted to let you know about some of the episodes we're working on

00:00:03.660 so that you can submit your questions.

00:00:05.420 So the first is all about convenience culture.

00:00:08.460 We're talking about self-checkouts, delivery apps, music streaming that allows you to listen

00:00:13.020 to literally any song at any time, news and media.

00:00:16.600 What does the evolution and prioritization of convenience say about our society?

00:00:21.260 And what does it cost us?

00:00:23.780 Send us your questions.

00:00:25.260 We're also doing an episode about the women's fitness industrial complex.

00:00:28.860 So whether it's like the call to eat protein all the time, or I guess fiber all the time

00:00:34.940 or lifting heavy or doing Pilates, there are all these exercise trends targeted specifically

00:00:40.560 towards women.

00:00:41.600 What have you seen?

00:00:42.800 What are you curious about?

00:00:44.720 What do you like?

00:00:45.760 What's weird?

00:00:47.160 Take that in any direction.

00:00:48.660 And then we're also working on a handful of episodes with different guests who talk about

00:00:52.900 clothes and personal style.

00:00:54.920 This is sort of pegged to back to school, which is always when I get a little excited

00:00:59.220 about thinking about clothes.

00:01:00.800 I don't know, I'm just like a 13-year-old girl at heart, but we'll be talking about

00:01:04.640 thrifting, about plus-size options or lack thereof, about defining one's personal style

00:01:10.020 and if that's even a thing that matters, and about why some clothing items go viral.

00:01:15.800 So keep an eye on clothes culture around you and let us know what sparks your interest.

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00:01:23.680 You can submit everything at tinyurl.com slash culturestudypod.

00:01:29.460 Okay, thanks.

00:01:30.580 Enjoy today's show.

00:01:39.520 This is the Culture Study Podcast, and I'm Anne Helen Peterson.

00:01:43.300 And I'm male gaze expert, Adib Karam.

00:01:46.020 I love that because it goes in two ways.

00:01:48.660 Male gaze, male gaze.

00:01:50.000 Yes, exactly.

00:01:50.720 okay we're gonna start controversial who is the first heartthrob that you remember being aware of

00:02:00.400 i think this is different than your first heartthrob the first person that you were aware

00:02:05.740 of that you understood as a heartthrob oh i boy this is gonna date me um i remember there was

00:02:13.720 this show called Sequest DSV and everyone was talking about Jonathan Brandes and then he went

00:02:20.080 and did like a weird Chuck Norris karate movie and then he died way too young but like you know

00:02:25.840 the middle part those you know big expressive eyes that's what I remember everyone in the fifth grade

00:02:32.120 recess talking about. So this is actually this gives us a chance to talk about to come up with

00:02:36.800 our working definition of heartthrob because one of our listeners Heidi asked like what's the

00:02:42.880 difference between a heartthrob and a sex symbol or i also feel like crush or like teen idol is

00:02:50.900 also an interesting like variation of all of these because to me jonathan randis is a teen idol

00:02:57.460 interesting i would agree he is a teen idol but when we when i was like a pre-teen then he was

00:03:03.400 also a heartthrob totally i think there i think relative age yes play into it yes um and i think

00:03:10.800 Specifically, when I think about the difference between a heartthrob and a sex symbol, I think heartthrob is a an ephemeral status.

00:03:19.820 Yes.

00:03:20.540 And sex symbol is like a sort of permanent bestowal.

00:03:26.940 Yes.

00:03:28.020 Like Sean Connery was a sex symbol.

00:03:30.720 Sean Connery still is a sex symbol posthumously, but he was only a heartthrob for a portion of his life.

00:03:36.780 But he was a sex symbol like past when he stopped being a heartthrob.

00:03:40.800 To me, that makes sense.

00:03:42.200 Yes, absolutely.

00:03:43.280 And I also think that the age component is really interesting because I think it works

00:03:47.900 both in terms of a heartthrob can be when you're a certain age, it needs to be someone

00:03:53.100 who's older than you.

00:03:54.820 And also when you're a certain age, it needs to be someone who's younger than you.

00:03:59.720 So it's positionality is like figured into this.

00:04:03.460 And we got a lot of listener questions about like, where did the heartthrobs go?

00:04:07.540 And I'm like, they didn't go anywhere.

00:04:09.140 You're just 44.

00:04:10.800 But my earliest heartthrob, I think, would be, and this is kind of towing the line of

00:04:18.780 sex symbol, that I was aware of was Patrick Swayze.

00:04:23.860 And part of it was that I was not allowed to watch Dirty Dancing.

00:04:29.360 So he was just imbued with like this mystery of like, everyone says this person is the

00:04:35.840 hottest and that made him seem like someone who I should think is hot even if I didn't like he's

00:04:44.660 not my flavor I think that's absolutely accurate I think sort of the cultural milieu affects who

00:04:52.380 is heartthrobs and there is pressure to see the same people as heartthrobs yeah I think in some

00:04:59.880 ways it feels like one of the last pieces of monoculture out there is like who we all have

00:05:05.580 decided is a heartthrob. That and the pit. That's it for monoculture. Everything else is completely

00:05:09.840 fragmented. But everyone loves heartthrobs and the pit. Yes, we could just do this whole episode,

00:05:15.020 you and I talking about who we think is hot. We could and perhaps I would argue even should.

00:05:20.200 What else? What else do the people want? But we also have to go deeper because this is culture

00:05:25.100 study. So we talk a lot about female beauty standards. And I actually think we've been 1.00

00:05:30.380 talking a lot more about the punishing exacting form of male beauty standards but what do you think

00:05:37.780 our current designation is for a heartthrob oh i think current designation for a heartthrob

00:05:48.460 uh is a conventionally attractive man yes i think they have to be an actor i i feel like

00:05:56.800 i never hear it even the most beautiful of musicians or athletes described as heartthrobs

00:06:02.500 i think they have to be an actor yes yes yes yes that's a good point and i think they are

00:06:08.080 someone that is conventionally attractive um and with enough mystique that they are almost

00:06:14.380 i hope i'm using this word right a shibboleth for the audiences to put their own desires onto

00:06:20.480 and so they have to have an aura of availability even though we all know that they are in fact

00:06:27.360 not available to us two points here i think that the point about musicians is so strong

00:06:35.140 because i think that a musician is only ever who they appear to be like their image is themselves

00:06:41.660 there isn't like disappearing into a role and then there's like some true self that we're allowed to

00:06:48.120 imagine like who they are in real life so like harry styles to me is a quintessential teen idol

00:06:54.220 because harry styles is always harry styles like there isn't even when he acts he's still just

00:06:59.460 harry styles in a costume yeah well and also acts i know right he stood where they told him to stand

00:07:07.500 and said the words that were written down for him in a script totally and then a star though can

00:07:14.260 like have that mystique that I think is central to the heartthrob and like even that Melody was

00:07:21.060 joking about how she wrote heartthrob in the preparation for this episode way too many times

00:07:24.900 and like started thinking about it as a medical condition like if we're thinking like the actual

00:07:30.060 word heartthrob it's like you can't control the thing that your body does when you see this person

00:07:37.520 yeah like a physical response but it's not sexual right it's not necessarily right it's more

00:07:44.020 emotional some more like connection that has less to do with straight sexual desire and i don't mean

00:07:50.440 that's heterosexual i mean pure desire and more to do with like an emotional desire i think so

00:07:59.460 and i think it taps into this is gonna sound weird a desire a lot of us have to to know the

00:08:05.000 trappings of fame yes to be to be seen and beloved by the masses so i recently read emma

00:08:14.060 straub's book american fantasy which is about going on a new kids on the block cruise um have

00:08:18.660 you read it i have it on my cart back there which is overflowing with books that i will definitely

00:08:24.320 get around to reading someday it is it is such a romp but one of the things i really liked about it

00:08:29.280 is that it channels that desire to like actually that like you had when you were a kid where you're

00:08:37.220 like if Joey McIntyre would just talk to me like if we could just spend like you know a couple

00:08:42.780 hours together like we would see like the true connection that we had and like be friends and

00:08:50.340 maybe you know future lovers like whatever but it's it's more about that like desire to see the

00:08:56.300 emotional connection play out and less about like i want to hump his brains out or something like

00:09:01.440 that yeah i think um like heartthrobs can't exist without parasocial relationships yes if you if it

00:09:09.800 if it's possible to know them then they stop being a heartthrob yes what about i think this is really

00:09:17.220 interesting now especially like with more and more stars being very openly out do you think that they

00:09:24.840 have to be open to both the male and the female gaze like a subject to both the male and female

00:09:30.620 gaze i actually think it helps them if they manage to live in both gazes yes uh i think jonathan

00:09:40.620 bailey is a uh like got to be people's sexiest man alive um was one of the first people to like 0.88

00:09:47.140 make waves with their slutty little glasses and like he is an out gay man and people of all genders 0.52

00:09:53.440 love him yes and i think um the stars of heated rivalry have managed to move in such a way that 0.98

00:10:01.780 they have welcomed in uh fans and admirers and heartthrobbies heartthrobbers however we would

00:10:09.900 say that like they have welcomed that in by playing with uh gender expectations i think

00:10:15.940 that george clooney is in this category even though he also i think at various points has

00:10:21.120 been a sex symbol but he has also like very explicitly been like i don't care if people

00:10:26.260 desire me in that way like whatever like what does it change my life if people want to imagine

00:10:32.000 me in that way um we have a question that's going to set us up to a like another important wrinkle

00:10:37.900 in this story this comes from kate is heartthrob a gendered term even though i myself am queer the

00:10:44.580 term heartthrob makes me think of men are there heartthrobs who are women or femmes great question

00:10:50.260 i agree and i hate gender essentialism and which is why i'm worried that my answer i think is yes 0.55

00:10:56.500 i have only ever heard heartthrob applied to a man i am also extremely homosexual and when i

00:11:03.960 think of the most like beautiful women in the world i still don't think like they're a heart 0.63

00:11:08.800 i think you know that would be that would be my exception or or please step on me cate blanchett

00:11:15.100 in your full galadriel costume like that's what i think but i don't think heartthrob 1.00

00:11:18.880 Yeah, well, and something like, you know, Tilda Swinton, like women who are playing with androgyny. I don't think I think that there's sex symbols, not heartthrobs. Because like there is a charisma to their gender play. But it's a hard charisma, right? 0.78

00:11:38.160 it's like agreed and i also think when we think of how women are expected to operate through their 0.98

00:11:46.100 celebrity i think there is an expectation of sweetness like you're supposed to be america's

00:11:51.740 sweetheart not a heartthrob if you're more fem aligned yes i feel like heart male heartthrobs 0.95

00:11:59.020 are allowed to sort of play with their sexuality but if a beautiful woman starts to do that 0.97

00:12:04.020 she's immediately slut shamed. 0.88

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00:16:22.460 next question comes from jenna and it's gonna allow me to like get wonky classic hollywood

00:16:33.780 i'm very excited it's about the evolution of the heartthrob how do you think the idea of a

00:16:38.600 quote-unquote heartthrob has evolved from the late 90s and early 2000s shout out to my formative

00:16:44.920 crush jonathan taylor thomas and that era of younger more boyish less fully formed celebrity

00:16:50.740 crushes, to today's version, like Pedro Pascal, who feels more mature, self-aware, and aligned

00:16:57.280 with things like authenticity, emotional intelligence, and even feminist values.

00:17:02.700 Is this shift a kind of generational reaction against the heartthrobs we grew up with,

00:17:07.640 or just a reflection of how millennials themselves have aged and what we now find attractive?

00:17:13.280 And more broadly, do younger generations even use the term heartthrob, or is this a millennial

00:17:18.820 driven lens that says more about us than about the celebrities themselves what's your first

00:17:24.520 reaction here my first reaction is everything always says more about ourselves than it does

00:17:29.180 about the world around us yes um so i agree i think maybe heartthrob as a like as a specific

00:17:35.880 coined word sees a lot more use in millennials but i think the what it represents happens in

00:17:42.360 every generation and maybe it has a different word oh no for sure i think that it is like

00:17:47.140 there's actually melody pointed me to this bbc article about heartthrobs through the ages and i

00:17:52.280 was ready to be like very dismissive and cranky about it like someone just like putting together

00:17:58.600 like oh this was a big star in the 1930s but it actually is very accurate we will uh link to it

00:18:05.000 in the show notes and was it like clark gable when he took off his shirt and didn't have a tank top

00:18:09.440 on underneath and then it happened one night yes plummeted in the united states apocryphal

00:18:15.760 information but also like very important to me uh yeah it points to use our film history

00:18:21.340 somewhere the like 1920s is this really interesting contrast between douglas fairbanks

00:18:28.120 who was like the swashbuckler like i'm a horseman blah blah blah and rudolf valentino which is

00:18:34.840 always like i think about rudolf valentino way more than i ever thought that i would think about

00:18:39.680 a star from the 1920s as how hollywood and how like desire had to negotiate like female desire

00:18:47.700 had to negotiate like what do we do with this star who's coded as other in some way because he

00:18:55.400 was an immigrant and was like italians weren't assimilated into whiteness as thoroughly as they

00:19:01.120 are now so he was feminized in all of these ways and he's trying to prove like i am a virile guy

00:19:07.780 but then also if you become the subject of so many women's attraction and like men don't like

00:19:14.180 your movies then like that feminizes you even more and i think we actually see this a lot with

00:19:19.960 contemporary stars who are like do i become like a guy's star or do i become a heartthrob and they

00:19:27.840 have to negotiate that space both like with their publicist with their image with the studio whatever

00:19:32.140 it is um but clark gable in the 1930s i don't really agree with like the the crooner of the

00:19:38.700 1940s um but that's their assertion is it's like sinatra bing crosby that sort of thing

00:19:44.760 i think it was much more like actually the one he's more of a sex symbol is humphrey bogart in

00:19:52.140 the 1940s but like the noir i would agree compromised hero um 1950s is rebel without

00:19:59.640 a cause james dean marlon brando oh my gosh marlon brando was a heartthrob unspeakably beautiful

00:20:08.280 and hot i see i think right and also like you know complicated but i think has shown to be on

00:20:15.380 the right side of most things historically yeah like not not necessarily a great guy in his

00:20:21.440 personal life but also his politics were pretty like his larger politics were good um 1960s hold

00:20:29.240 on yeah 1950s the rebel and then it just like skips over the 1960s it goes because they're

00:20:35.240 like 70s well they they're like we can't talk about the beatles we'll get sued

00:20:39.300 well and also that but i think the beatles this is your point that uh i don't think they can be

00:20:46.880 heartthrobs but they took up so much culture i don't know if there were room was room for

00:20:51.360 heartthrobs in the 60s teen idols yeah uh 1970s burt reynolds again i think more of a sex

00:20:59.120 symbol i would argue robert redford that works for me how do you have this list without paul

00:21:04.240 newman on it um especially if robert redford is on it like you can't you can't have redford

00:21:09.300 without newman 1980s the yuppie so this is like richard gear don johnson i i bet you could add

00:21:17.000 like that's when i would have put patrick swayze same as oh well what year did ghost come out was

00:21:21.880 that late 80s or early 90s maybe i'm right around there wrong okay but also bordering on sex symbol

00:21:29.000 1990s this is getting into this territory like specifically addressed by the question sensitive

00:21:34.260 pretty boy so leonardo dicaprio obviously like the pinnacle of heartthrob to my mind of the 90s

00:21:41.760 yeah we have lesser leos like jonathan taylor thomas is like a c-level leonardo dicaprio right

00:21:48.540 and he also like leo matured yes and jonathan taylor thomas i feel like never left home

00:21:54.380 improvement like no that's always he made a cameo appearance on um veronica mars i believe

00:22:01.800 scandalous okay yeah and i it's like so clearly hailey until like the millennial mind

00:22:07.920 but i think leo has uh never left residency in heartthrope category and not getting married

00:22:15.160 certainly like lends itself to that he just keeps you know now granted continually like

00:22:19.740 dating 18 year olds is a little weird yes I 2000s I wonder who we put here I think that's an age

00:22:28.400 when again like teen idols in the form of like NSYNC and Backstreet Boys kind of eclipsed the

00:22:33.980 heartthrob and then I think there were some things uh please forgive me for even mentioning this but

00:22:41.260 I feel like everyone that I knew was really into Christian Bale right around when he took his shirt

00:22:45.760 off in the batman movies um really into johnny depp uh when he was in pirates of the caribbean

00:22:53.160 and everyone's like he's weird and dirty and for some reason he makes my heart flutter oh that's

00:22:58.560 so like i remember that moment so vividly i felt that yep uh and i also think um i feel like a lot

00:23:07.340 of people loved robert downey jr in iron man at like the very the very first iron man movie which

00:23:12.440 came out in 2008 yeah um i would i would say that he managed to catch a bit of heartthrob status

00:23:18.300 there and i think heartthrobs can also have you know we're talking about how they're nice they

00:23:21.900 can also have like redemption stories right so like everyone was rooting for his redemption story

00:23:27.380 yes i even think like john travolta had a little bit of heartthrob status in the 90s because he was

00:23:34.100 like i mean he had been a heartthrob and then it's like look he's a heartthrob again because

00:23:38.940 he's had this comeback with Pulp Fiction.

00:23:42.880 Has Tom Cruise ever been a heartthrob?

00:23:46.040 I actually think Tom Cruise is not a heartthrob,

00:23:50.500 but he is one of the last stars.

00:23:53.060 Yes, 100%.

00:23:54.020 But not, maybe early Tom Cruise, actually.

00:23:56.960 Like, risky business Tom Cruise.

00:23:59.520 Yeah, maybe.

00:24:01.020 Yeah.

00:24:01.940 And then, oh, is Denzel a heartthrob?

00:24:04.920 Oh, if you have ever seen Mississippi Masala,

00:24:07.820 then you know it's 100 yes that heartthrob and then he becomes i think a sex symbol

00:24:12.540 he like moves through the the charts um and then 2010s this is i think spot on we move to

00:24:20.560 the internet's boyfriend and the internet's boyfriend can shift it shifts very quickly

00:24:26.380 and this is what you were saying about like the a heartthrob is ephemeral 0.65

00:24:30.860 so like the 2010s also gave us like the era of the chrises yes and like the great chris wars of

00:24:38.800 the 2010s and none of them really actually were that good of heartthrobs which is why like

00:24:43.520 they've moved on to very different things now but timothy chalamet takes up this mantle um pedro

00:24:51.420 pascal as the question asker mentioned i think is like but part of what i see in this question

00:24:57.040 is also like our millennials have just gotten older and so the tastes have become more refined

00:25:02.940 i agree i also don't think i hear people widely calling pedro pascal a heartthrob

00:25:08.660 i do think millennials call him a heartthrob uh but i think uh younger people i don't hear

00:25:15.160 call him a heartthrob i call it hear them calling him daddy like i think different people are

00:25:19.280 wanting different things out of him 100 percent um also i adore him and everything he does like

00:25:25.700 i think he's great we're lucky to live in pedro pascal's earth he came to visit buzzfeed when he

00:25:32.420 was first emerging into like more global stardom this was when he like the season that he appeared

00:25:38.080 on game of thrones and we used to have stars like come visit the office to do kind of a part of

00:25:43.540 their like junket rounds right and then they could answer questions while they're holding puppies

00:25:47.760 yeah or they could like there would just be a call like if you want to get a picture with pedro

00:25:52.660 Pascal just cut the red wall so there's a picture of me from 2014 with like newly

00:26:00.080 celebritized Pedro Pascal I will post that and that'll be that has to be in the show notes please

00:26:06.560 I look very surprised I'm like here's this person that I really like on Game of Thrones and like

00:26:14.380 could not have projected that trajectory for him but I do think like that designation the

00:26:19.340 internet's boyfriend is really interesting because boyfriend there's like a niceness to it there's a

00:26:24.780 niceness but also again that availability yes because they're not the internet's husband

00:26:30.220 and they're not someone else's husband either right and you can break up with them

00:26:34.100 and internet to me signals like you said that parasocial component absolutely imagining yourself

00:26:41.920 in this position um okay next question we get to talk about hated rivalry this is uh from kelly

00:26:49.100 what do you think the heated rivalry stars and their characters heartthrob status tells us about

00:26:55.760 the kind of men that women desire versus the kind of men that cishet men think that women desire

00:27:03.000 interesting question right like who gets cast in a movie as like the object of desire versus who

00:27:12.480 and what type of character because this is what that's who people love it's the characters not

00:27:19.440 as much like the actual actors here right yeah i think well it's interesting because physically

00:27:26.100 they are like very similar to uh what men think they need to look like like they are shredded

00:27:33.700 and muscular um and yet they also like have glowing skin um like they're clearly taking

00:27:40.820 care of themselves and in the show they both present uh you know their characters act extremely

00:27:47.120 hyper masculine and i do have lots of opinions on that um but then at like the actors who play them

00:27:54.340 are clearly young and media savvy know who their audience is and i think have enough self-possession

00:28:00.020 to never take themselves very seriously and i think a sense of humor playfulness yeah goes a

00:28:07.960 long way in being and maintaining heartthrob status because if you buy into your own hype

00:28:14.680 um you stop being lovable a heartthrob teases like flirts they they know how to play back

00:28:23.740 and like sometimes i think to myself like they know what they're doing that sort of thing and

00:28:29.320 like it can be overdone i think when the moves are too obvious it's it's kind of like when someone's

00:28:35.740 flirting with you two obviously or like we're like they have no game you know that's it doesn't

00:28:40.520 quite work but i think with the heated rivalry stars it really works one thing about the narrative

00:28:45.540 and i think you were kind of gesturing to this their narrative of heated rivalry because they

00:28:49.980 are trying to pass as straight for like half of the show i mean the entirety of the show they're

00:28:56.120 passing for straight except behind closed doors except for the parts when they're having sex with

00:29:01.100 one another i think even when they're having sex for one another they uh you know there's a portion

00:29:07.920 of that where they're still performing straightness oh tell me more what do you think um i think their

00:29:13.340 initial encounters come across as very not only very aggressive um but also very heteronormatively

00:29:19.160 coded where one is you know ilia is always the aggressive dominant top and shane is always the

00:29:25.840 quiet submissive bottom which essentially just reproduces a sort of traditional male-female

00:29:32.160 dynamic and as their relationship evolves we see well we see more non-penetrative sex acts

00:29:39.520 and we also see more like tender simultaneous sex acts going between them in which they're both

00:29:44.560 actively giving and actively receiving pleasure at the same time and easing off the sort of

00:29:49.660 dominant and submissive roles but i also think you know hockey is one of the straightest sports

00:29:54.660 out there I mean all sports are super straight sadly um except for uh I guess ballroom dancing

00:30:00.400 maybe sorry that's I do love ballroom dancing I do think that's Baz Luhrmann's best movie um

00:30:06.860 is the ballroom dancing one um strictly ballroom I know right there are there are

00:30:12.520 god it's such a good movie um like there are queer people everywhere but hockey in particular I think 1.00

00:30:18.060 uh is a sport that really embraces whiteness and straightness uh and a and a sort of violent 1.00

00:30:24.100 masculinity even though they're not allowed to fight anymore which used to be the only good

00:30:26.860 part of watching a hockey game anyway is the fights do you think that there is like a conscious

00:30:32.180 almost like regulation of the sex scenes in order to invite more straight viewers into the show

00:30:41.620 this is kind of a digression but i also think it's interesting actually um i know they worked

00:30:48.880 with an intimacy coordinator yeah um and i've read some of the interviews of that like how they

00:30:53.520 planned it i actually think um they went in trying to portray two people in love having a lot of sex

00:31:01.100 and discovering that they were in love along the way and the the show heated rivalry seems to me

00:31:08.020 um that it was really made with like a particular vision behind the lens and that being that like

00:31:14.160 the team was making the show they wanted to make and they were going to trust that people would

00:31:18.200 like it so i don't think they um like specifically courted any specific audiences with the sex scenes

00:31:23.780 i think they tried to honestly portray the sex they were trying to portray yeah and the role it

00:31:30.020 had in that relationship have you seen off campus i have not isn't that is that one on amazon yeah

00:31:36.220 and it's about i don't have a subscription to that i'm technically well i'm not boycotting them but i

00:31:40.860 also try not to give them money i understand and but also please continue if amazon is where you

00:31:45.740 buy my books please continue doing that the check clears either way but i love it when the money

00:31:50.600 comes from them to me and not vice versa we recently recorded a bonus episode me melody and

00:31:57.280 then um our other friend margaret about this show which is a hockey show and it's ostensibly very

00:32:04.280 straight but our argument was actually that the show and especially the way that both the the

00:32:09.640 male and female characters were presented that it's it's actually for the bisexual gays which

00:32:15.580 Which I think is, like, I think that's part... 0.86

00:32:17.500 Which makes sense. It does have Mateo from The Pit in it.

00:32:19.260 Yes. I do think that's part of contemporary heartthrob-ness, right?

00:32:23.720 Is being available to the bisexual gays, to all of the different gays, G-A-Z-E, not just G-A-Y-S, although that as well. 1.00

00:32:35.140 Yes. I would agree. I do think, again, it's that availability. You have to be available to everyone. 1.00

00:32:42.620 Yeah. Okay. Next question. Is this just because I want to have a mention of Paul Mescal? Probably. But let's hear it. It's from Claire.

00:32:52.040 what happened to bad boys i'm an older millennial and in my youth there were always a few bad boy

00:32:58.080 heartthrobs who seemed a little dangerous now heartthrobs seem to be good boys johnny bailey

00:33:04.840 paul meskel connor story hudson williams glenn powell paul rudd pedro pascal all good guys i'm

00:33:12.740 here for it but i'm wondering why okay can we think of a bad boy i was gonna say i have a theory

00:33:19.720 of why we don't like bad boys anymore okay but can you think of anyone

00:33:23.200 yeah but he keeps like all his movies keep bombing and no one likes him who is it jared leto oh well

00:33:30.960 he's not anymore i don't know i just know he's apparently a cursed now yeah he's also he's like

00:33:37.800 i mean my heartthrob is jordan catalano not jared leto i'm saying he was never mind but i was like

00:33:44.620 But specifically when we think of bad boys, I think the Me Too movement made us reevaluate what a bad boy is.

00:33:52.120 Yeah.

00:33:52.480 And that maybe it's not simply a presentation, but in fact, maybe their behaviors are harming people.

00:33:56.540 I also think we don't want bad boys anymore because globally, geopolitically, bad people are running things.

00:34:03.760 And so we want to reach for goodness and softness and tenderness and empathy where we can find it.

00:34:09.520 Whereas, you know, I'm not saying the 90s were great for anyone.

00:34:12.820 but for many of us they were slightly less like existentially dreadful and therefore bad boys

00:34:20.160 were not as like threatening to our lives yeah and i think bad boys were a way to highlight like

00:34:29.760 some form of transgressiveness when something like i don't know like any sort of like sexual

00:34:37.360 transgressiveness or uh like when it comes to sexuality gender performance all those things

00:34:43.060 were were somewhat out of bounds like if you think about the way that bad boys are often portrayed

00:34:47.540 like they wear tighter pants almost always there there's a way that you could they have tattoos

00:34:53.080 yeah but now you can have a tattoo and work just about any job like it doesn't matter like like

00:34:58.800 it's no longer a matter of no one will hire you if you have a tattoo yes and i think there was also

00:35:04.120 a component of like working class masculinity and the fetishization of that in the 1980s and

00:35:10.040 90s that now is less vivid and is not necessarily aligned with like bad boyness per se but yeah I

00:35:21.800 think this is an interesting question I was like thinking too about how many narratives of the 80s

00:35:27.260 and 90s really offer us two different visions like two different dudes and one would be like

00:35:35.800 they both would be hot in different ways and the protagonist would have to choose between them

00:35:40.240 and i don't think we get as much of that anymore yeah i think that makes sense it's funny you bring

00:35:47.720 up the 80s because i think of like so many of the movies from the 80s that gave us heartthrobs

00:35:51.860 yes like dirty dancing or footloose uh are about like people who essentially like tried to break

00:35:59.540 the characters free of some sort of repression yes and i do think as a society we're less

00:36:04.340 repressed right now than we were in the 80s even as even as there are sources that are trying to

00:36:10.780 repress us i do think we're less repressed um but like james spader to me not a heartthrob he's a

00:36:17.660 sex symbol interesting okay yeah i think that makes sense is uh what's his name melody from

00:36:25.600 um from wuthering heights jacob elordi kate bush oh sorry

00:36:29.740 is jacob elordi a bad boy i think he plays one but in like his public persona is not

00:36:39.640 like he plays himself very nice and very australian and everyone who thinks

00:36:44.080 that everyone from australia is a lad i buy it okay this is good um also he's tall and that's

00:36:51.840 like a whole separate category say more um for instance adam driver i don't think i've ever heard

00:36:58.100 anyone say that he's a heartthrob but there's an entire subgroup of people that like he is over

00:37:03.600 six five and that is all i need to know about him and i think jacob alorty is also in that category

00:37:09.200 you know i do think that like yeah you can't be heartthrobs can't be super tall i think like

00:37:15.000 a short king is great heartthrob material interesting yeah i think there is a limit to

00:37:22.860 it yeah there is a limit but like they have to like sometimes when you have something that is

00:37:28.180 somehow seen as less society societally desirable then you have to like be nicer

00:37:34.700 it forces you to be like a better dude interesting fascinating i think there and or you have to be

00:37:41.120 funny here's here's a question for you jack black heartthrob or not oh i actually think yes

00:37:47.040 okay i think i i think he's definitely a sex symbol i don't know if i don't know if i would

00:37:53.160 i mean i think he's a heartthrob but i also don't know if anyone else i that's why i asked it i

00:37:57.220 don't know we'll have to this was a great one for people to weigh in in the comments yeah is jack

00:38:01.080 black a heartthrob a sex symbol both or neither yes okay all of sense of humor is great sense of

00:38:07.540 humor and like for me i you know i've heard him in lots of interviews where he basically acts like

00:38:13.820 his character from the holiday which is i think everyone's favorite jack black movie also

00:38:19.540 and i'm like what a guy right you're like jew law so handsome don't need it i'd go with jack black

00:38:27.500 same yeah um okay next question this has all been leading up to this this is from connor

00:38:33.240 maybe it says something about the side of the internet i'm on but i've noticed something that

00:38:37.880 many male heartthrobs whether from the golden age of hollywood or current day have in common

00:38:42.540 is speculation surrounding their sexualities i grew up hearing about james dean's potential

00:38:46.920 bisexuality the queer subtext in movies like top gun and today i regularly see people looking for

00:38:53.080 clues about the potential queerness of their favorite k-pop star or the new breakout heated

00:38:57.500 rivalry stars connor story and hudson williams why is this does heartthrobs potential queerness

00:39:02.860 make them seem more accessible to us does it imply a rejection of the patriarchy or other

00:39:07.920 power dynamics that inherently come with celebrity that's attractive to us and does our view of these

00:39:13.060 heartthrobs change if they actually come out i have a theory here okay i also have i want to hear

00:39:18.900 yours first though okay my theory is that we are not trained to know what to do with any sort of

00:39:27.740 gender play or any sort of like soft masculinity and so the automatic reaction is like are they gay

00:39:36.720 and sometimes yes and sometimes no but i think that that is like the first kind of like how do

00:39:43.580 we figure out who this person really like what's going on with this person why do i like them if

00:39:47.780 they don't completely match with societal standards. And the most obvious line of

00:39:53.820 questioning is like, are they gay? That's that's part of my theory. What is yours? 0.99

00:39:57.900 I agree. And I think that lets us vicariously break beyond the gender binary. Yeah, that many

00:40:06.460 of us are kind of enforcing. I also think one reason that heartthrobs are heartthrobs is their

00:40:12.700 presentation of non-threatening masculinity yeah yep yep yep um boyfriend not husband yep

00:40:18.440 but heartthrobs are almost always people that project an aura of safety that they are not going

00:40:26.680 to like physically or emotionally harm the people in their lives that's how they project and i think

00:40:32.400 that's why we feel so terribly betrayed if some of them do eventually get exposed as being horrible

00:40:37.220 people um like why that betrayal cuts so deeply but i do think part of their mystique is that

00:40:42.820 they're like oh he seems like he smells nice and would hold the door for me and also never

00:40:47.500 gaslight me yeah and and i think especially for you know cisgender men um presenting any sort of

00:40:55.460 non-threatening masculinity is also conflated with queerness um i mean mr rogers was married

00:41:02.540 and like a pastor but everyone was like well he's soft-spoken and nice to children he must be he must

00:41:08.380 be gay somehow and like maybe he was some flavor of queer yeah um i mean a man that a man that

00:41:14.360 pulls off a cardigan that well to me has to like at least be a little bit bisexual but regardless

00:41:19.060 like you know who he who he says he is is who he is yeah and he's not with us anymore but you know

00:41:25.060 how he presented himself was how he presented himself and like i feel like weird about adjudicating

00:41:30.740 his like inner life for him yeah right but like but like he was not threatening and therefore

00:41:36.860 that he must be queer because threat is so intertwined with ideas of like traditional 0.55

00:41:42.680 masculinity there's two things i want to pick up on here one to be a total star theory nerd 0.62

00:41:48.620 is that i think a heartthrobs image must be what's called polysemic which just means it has

00:41:56.960 poly many semiology many meanings right you can read it in many ways um so at least open to that

00:42:04.520 because that means that this person then becomes available for the desires of many different people

00:42:10.320 like many they can map them whether they're queer straight desires or just like you want them to be

00:42:16.120 a specific type of boyfriend that you need like that's what they can be um the other is that like

00:42:22.800 we were talking about before about how it's hard for a musician to become a heartthrob because we

00:42:27.960 like there's no true self behind the celebrity that we're trying to discover like part of our

00:42:35.140 fascination with movie stars in particular is always trying to figure out like the authentic

00:42:39.640 self right like the layers okay if we peel away all of these layers we can somehow know who the

00:42:45.300 real person is and oftentimes scandal occurs like the biggest scandals occur when something is

00:42:52.500 revealed that challenges what we believed that most authentic self to be so like i think about

00:42:58.740 kevin spacey when people are like well he's gay which was not a surprise like that was something 1.00

00:43:04.960 that was rumored about him for a long time but like oh he's a horrible abusive asshole right 0.99

00:43:11.040 like again not the massive massive scandal that it would have been if it was say tom hanks right 0.97

00:43:19.060 because like the characters that kevin spacey had played the like various appearances that he had

00:43:27.500 made to the press he had never tried to like become a heartthrob there was never this understanding

00:43:31.920 that like he was a nice guy whereas a heartthrob there is this implicit understanding and also a

00:43:38.800 potential for scandal if it's revealed that they're actually not that way thinking of kevin

00:43:43.080 spacey also makes me think of brendan fraser oh i think was a heartthrob and went away for a while

00:43:48.860 and actually has like found a second heartthrobness.

00:43:51.800 This is my point about comebacks, right?

00:43:54.380 There's a softness, there's a vulnerability

00:43:56.900 when someone has been excised from Hollywood.

00:44:01.580 Yeah.

00:44:02.280 Do you think that someone, I think like Heath Ledger

00:44:05.540 is kind of cemented in heartthrob space?

00:44:08.360 Yeah, because he'll never get any older.

00:44:11.100 He will always be a heartthrob.

00:44:12.880 James Dean, same thing.

00:44:15.160 Fascinating.

00:44:18.860 the culture study podcast is sponsored by jones road beauty

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00:48:18.280 Okay, next question comes from Nia and gives us a chance to talk about age.

00:48:22.980 Heartthrobs are almost always the same age, 21-ish to 32-ish when they emerge, but we as consumers keep getting older.

00:48:31.800 Does that impact who we consider a heartthrob, i.e. Robert Irwin is only 22 and therefore a baby versus Jacob Elordi is 28 and can be hot?

00:48:41.500 And how have Hudson and Connor managed to avoid that problem despite being pretty young?

00:48:46.600 we have to also add that pedro pascal who we talked about a little bit is 51 hot and also

00:48:53.640 you just we were just saying that like brendan frazier has re-entered into heartthrob status

00:48:59.760 so you can re-enter into this point or like john travolta in the 90s where do you go here

00:49:05.100 i think it really is relative ages um and they're not going to be heartthrobs everyone like it

00:49:11.940 someone could be a like a child to me as a 42 year old man uh and a heartthrob to someone who's

00:49:18.280 10 years or 20 years younger than me yeah um like i for me robert urban not a heartthrob talented

00:49:24.920 dancer uh clearly goes to the gym good for him not a heartthrob jacob alordi also too tall not

00:49:31.920 a heartthrob um but pedro pascal i'm like yeah like i bet he smells nice uh there's there's an

00:49:38.720 interesting thing that happens for me where if the character that they play brings me back to

00:49:46.400 like 20 something version of myself then it like smooths that otherwise ick right so this is why 0.74

00:49:55.120 paul mezcal just absolutely fucking does it for me is because oh and those little shorts he wears 0.82

00:50:00.520 sometimes i would just see how many like how many episodes of this podcast where i could talk about 0.97

00:50:07.660 as meaty clackers like i just but the way that i was introduced to him in the primary text of his

00:50:13.720 stardom for me is normal people which is like a heartthrob text uh like uh uh and brings me back

00:50:22.320 to like the feelings of late teendom and early 20s so my connection to him and he has not done

00:50:29.840 nothing to disabuse that in his public persona so that is how i relate to him whereas jacob

00:50:35.500 lordy i'm like i don't know he's just like dating kylie jenner that that isn't heartthrobby to me

00:50:40.600 i actually think it's interesting you mentioned the text because i do think what texts actors

00:50:45.460 pick can help guide them along the path to heartthrob because then we make those associations

00:50:51.440 i think maybe one reason you and i have no feelings at all about jacob lordy is probably

00:50:56.640 because neither of us saw the kissing booth which was a formative romantic text for many people that

00:51:02.200 were like uh teenagers during the pandemic when those movies came out on netflix like we never 0.99

00:51:06.700 saw him as a like romantic lead yes uh we know him as like apparently he was an asshole in euphoria 0.91

00:51:13.140 or yeah now he's dating the person that you just named that i've already forgotten because i don't 0.97

00:51:18.060 watch that show uh but also is she the one that thought pepsi could dismantle systemic racism

00:51:23.240 or was that her sister okay it's true um and i said kylie earlier but it's kendall kylie is

00:51:28.280 dating timothy chalamet who has also i would argue lost his heartthrob status right because

00:51:35.060 a lot of people know him uh from like the ping pong movie or from dune yeah um unless they saw

00:51:40.380 whatever one it was that he was i think he gained it and it really like this is pretty interesting

00:51:45.620 he gained it in call me by your name and then little women like that one-two punch and then

00:51:51.380 a little bit in um ladybird like even though he's kind of a butt in that movie like he's still like

00:51:56.480 a little heartthrobby um and then the swagger i don't know if heartthrobs can have that much 0.61

00:52:03.640 swagger like the way that he has approached opera's trash not a heartthrobby thing to say

00:52:10.440 no and to bring it around i think to um like hudson williams and connor's story

00:52:17.080 uh like i think again they're in a text that allows them to be romantic

00:52:20.820 yes not only romantic but also horny for each other yes um in a way that we also for a long

00:52:27.840 time haven't gotten to see male leads be like horny yeah um many a couple years ago there was

00:52:33.980 an article that came out called everyone is beautiful and no one is horny 100 and like

00:52:38.980 this show is horny heated rivalry is horny and i think um they're aware of that you know people

00:52:44.700 always say sex sells and it does but also sex is an activity that many humans participate in 0.71

00:52:50.720 and acknowledging that i think is sort of a unifying part of their appeal that like yes 0.96

00:52:56.880 we play two guys who fuck and i think that makes them really appealing and that they're not ashamed 0.57

00:53:02.000 of it this goes back to an old theory of mine that i wrote about a couple years ago like dividing 0.95

00:53:07.360 male protagonists male stars into ones who like women and ones who don't and i think a heartthrob

00:53:13.980 likes women so like to me in my this was during the height of like glenn powell insurgency and i

00:53:22.620 was like glenn powell likes women and you can see that in the way he looks at women on screen and i 0.96

00:53:28.560 don't just mean that like he likes them as in he wants to have sex with them like he actually 0.95

00:53:32.160 he is not a misogynist right he sees the full the fullness of their humanity yes and we were

00:53:38.220 talking about this with off campus as well like you can see that the protagonist the male

00:53:43.700 protagonist and that show likes the woman that he is pursuing and that shouldn't be a novelty

00:53:50.180 but it is i have as i said i have not watched that show but i've i have friends that are watching it

00:53:55.960 and i have like romance author colleagues who are watching it and they have been really interested

00:54:01.500 in like dissecting the changes made between the books yes and the tv show which it's from what i

00:54:07.120 can tell the tv show makes the men much more respectful of their love interests than they are

00:54:15.060 and part of that i think is a change from when the first book was released in 2015

00:54:19.640 oh yeah that'll do it yep right like i think that part of that

00:54:25.700 and and part of this too as melody very astutely pointed out in this bonus episode is that like

00:54:33.460 more media is understanding that like the romance gaze and you know this better than anyone

00:54:39.180 like the romance gaze if you can apply that to a narrative like it turns someone into a heart

00:54:46.900 it turns them into a guy that you actually want to be with instead of just like this you know

00:54:52.840 hearkening back to an early earlier point the guy that like some male executive thinks that you

00:54:58.460 should like I think the act of falling in love turns people beautiful and so when we watch

00:55:08.560 stories about people falling in love we see them as beautiful yeah because and we get to share in

00:55:14.720 that beauty yeah I would say the other thing that turns someone beautiful is also grief or loss

00:55:21.980 mourning and so that for something like um leonardo dicaprio that you know the two seminal

00:55:28.840 texts to his 90s stardom are romeo and juliet and which like so much crying just beautiful crying

00:55:37.020 um and then also titanic where he you know yeah so die tragically forever young and beautiful

00:55:45.580 while celine dion sings about it exactly the other thing that we should talk about in like

00:55:51.260 so many of these questions is the fact that most of these celebrities and this is a reflection of

00:55:57.920 hollywood in some ways most of the celebrities mentioned in these questions are white or light

00:56:01.660 skinned so where do you think race comes into play when we think about who gets to be a heartthrob

00:56:07.540 this feels like a trap i think part of i think um if you ask me who a heartthrob is right now

00:56:13.480 i would say michael b jordan yeah yeah yeah i would say david ajala like i think there are but

00:56:19.880 I think I think as you and I are both not black we probably have a certain wariness of being

00:56:26.680 perceived as fetishizing black beauty and black men which is something that has historically been

00:56:33.240 done and so for me I would rather err on the side of not fetishizing someone but then that means

00:56:40.460 that I like don't talk about how many black heartthrobs there are we briefly mentioned

00:56:44.360 Denzel Washington yeah well this is a this is a difficult question right because like you said

00:56:49.160 like you don't want to venture into fetishizing territory and i also think like there's like

00:56:54.940 exoticism that happens here too um but there's also a long history of associating any sort of

00:57:03.340 like male sexuality with like a very dangerous sexuality right a threat to white virtue

00:57:10.260 especially white female virtue and i think that those traditions as much as the republican party

00:57:17.840 would like us to believe that racism no longer exists like those traditions hold very strong

00:57:23.200 and the way that a black star in particular has to frame their own position as a sex symbol like

00:57:31.020 all of this stuff like it's it has to be very carefully done and i would agree yeah yeah and

00:57:39.540 i do think western beauty standards are insidious and we you know it's called unconscious bias for

00:57:47.200 reason it's because we're not conscious of it can i propose an untraditional heartthrob yes

00:57:52.480 iced tea oh interesting specifically in law and order svu oh that's also how i mostly know him 0.81

00:58:01.360 for which i think is fascinating because he also like did that fuck the cops song right um i have

00:58:07.440 i love law and order svu and i also am aware that it's copaganda and so i have complicated 0.53

00:58:12.660 feelings about it i think he's i also think like everyone in that show is a heartthrob

00:58:16.680 that's true well and i think this is also participation in melodrama

00:58:21.040 like that actually and is one of the ways that you and you competency melodrama um like those

00:58:30.660 position you to be available to the heartthrob gaze i think in a way that like action movies

00:58:37.580 although action movies are oftentimes considered quote-unquote male melodramas like they don't

00:58:43.800 necessarily do the same work i would agree and i think you know in things like on order svu or

00:58:50.220 shows like the pit like everyone on the pit is a heartthrob um even when everyone even when dr 0.95

00:58:56.260 robbie's being a complete asshole and i want to grab him by the beard and shake him like i still 0.97

00:58:59.960 love him he still is a heartthrob um i think there's something about seeing people do a thing 1.00

00:59:06.920 that we kind of widely perceive as a societal good

00:59:10.580 that makes it very attractive.

00:59:14.360 I think maybe that's why SVU works

00:59:16.000 even as we know it's propaganda

00:59:17.660 because we like to envision

00:59:18.900 that the Justice Department always moves swiftly

00:59:21.740 and always is correct

00:59:23.100 in who was responsible for crimes

00:59:25.780 and that the people who do the crimes

00:59:27.220 face justice for them,

00:59:29.140 which is so far removed from reality,

00:59:30.800 but that's a whole other episode.

00:59:32.080 The pit is actually a really interesting point here

00:59:35.680 because I'm thinking about Noel Wiley in ER

00:59:38.400 where he was also a heartthrob.

00:59:40.240 But the only male character on that show

00:59:42.800 who was not a heartthrob

00:59:44.380 was the black male doctor played by Eric LaSalle.

00:59:48.200 And some of that had to-

00:59:49.400 Sorry, I also never watched ER.

00:59:51.300 I just saw the stills in People Magazine.

00:59:53.320 But part of that had to do with the way

00:59:55.760 that his character was framed in the show

00:59:57.500 as incredibly arrogant.

00:59:58.760 But then there were also a ton of stories

01:00:01.100 about his behavior off camera,

01:00:02.940 which was not heart.

01:00:04.160 like he was kind of known and i don't know whether this was the case or whether this was just part of

01:00:08.560 like pr to make people dislike him known as an asshole on set but there was critique i think in 0.88

01:00:15.060 the last two seasons about lack of black representation in the show in the pit just 0.95

01:00:19.960 generally and i think we're teeing up for a season three where the character that i love who is also

01:00:26.340 on shrinking a black male and avid elementary yes and avid elementary we're teeing up i think he's

01:00:33.040 going to be one of our doctor heartthrobs in season i hope so he's beautiful he should be in

01:00:38.360 everything likable too right yeah love it and his character in shrinking too represents that sort of

01:00:44.920 like soft masculinity of like i was a vet but i'm like i'm trying to be better i'm a good like

01:00:50.820 secondary father figure to this daughter like everyone on that show is a heartthrob too

01:00:55.180 I mean, Harrison Ford, sex symbol.

01:01:00.140 The most heartthrobby performance, though, I think, is in this movie.

01:01:05.280 It's the softest he's ever been. 0.63

01:01:07.400 Okay, we're going to talk about slutty little glasses last.

01:01:10.060 This is a fun question about fashion to wrap this all up. 0.99

01:01:12.680 Here's Casey.

01:01:13.620 Can you talk about the discourse around the slutty little glasses phenomenon?

01:01:18.040 Full credit to Blakely Thornton here for coining the term that's completely captured the zeitgeist.

01:01:23.340 I feel like most of the men I consider heartthrobs in 2026 are just extremely good at

01:01:28.080 accessorizing in fashion, or at least they find great stylists and let them do their thing.

01:01:33.260 The whole SLG trend seems to fall under that umbrella. It feels like a reaction against the

01:01:39.080 early aughts demonization of the quote-unquote metrosexual, but maybe there's more to the idea

01:01:44.580 that a modern heartthrob is allowed to be well-dressed or know how to work his angles,

01:01:48.740 that a heartthrob no longer needs to code himself as a manly man who hates palazzo pants and would

01:01:55.300 never carry a bag there was that recent glossy spread of pedro pascal where he almost exclusively

01:02:00.900 wore pants that katherine hepburn would have loved and i just kept thinking the heartthrobs of 20

01:02:05.980 years ago could never would never the mold of what's acceptable just feels so much bigger now

01:02:11.600 and there's a far wider range of taste in the heartthrob mid-year please discuss amazing question

01:02:17.600 casey just like beautifully crafted so highest compliments here it really is uh to me there is

01:02:24.600 like the question of the slutty little glasses is different of a more like expansive sense of

01:02:29.860 fashion um i think bravery is something that we appreciate in our heartthrobs yep i also think

01:02:36.640 again because heartthrobs tend to be a very like one specific body shape um that clothes tend to

01:02:42.420 fit well on we love seeing like new fashion on them the same way that we love a runway model

01:02:46.780 um but with the slutty little glasses in particular i think this is part of a long

01:02:51.940 trend away from demonizing nerds i still think most people if as soon as you put glasses on 0.89

01:02:59.800 them you're just like nerd alert um but it's no longer a bad thing now it's a good thing

01:03:04.360 i think sort of the rise of the nerd has made glasses more appealing and i feel like there's

01:03:12.120 been lots of media about how you know like the guy with the pocket protector and the glasses

01:03:18.520 takes off his shirt and it turns out he's in fact shredded and very good at sex and i think that in 0.88

01:03:25.380 particular is why they're slutty little glasses and not sexy little glasses the point though about 0.93

01:03:30.580 like the playfulness and the bravery is also really interesting to me like this is also like

01:03:36.080 pedro pascal appearing in like shirts that are very uh explicitly pro-trans right and talking

01:03:42.860 about like like that to me is in some ways like an act of bravery it shouldn't be but i think

01:03:49.520 that's something that makes him also attractive and heartthrobby oh absolutely do you think like

01:03:55.880 a manly man who hates a palazzo pant and would never carry a bag uh i i also just think like

01:04:04.380 we've been talking about this more that we do boomerang between like a more feminized ideal

01:04:13.340 and a more masculinized. And I think right now we are definitely in this moment of more gender

01:04:18.320 play. And are we going to go back? Like, is there going to be this, like, now we just have dudes,

01:04:23.060 dudes? Like, are we going to have a replay of like the three Chris's? What's going to happen?

01:04:27.600 I hope not. That's uninteresting to me.

01:04:30.180 I think, unfortunately, yes.

01:04:33.040 I think our sociologists and like pop culture, people who study culture, know that we always live on a 10, 20 and 30 year nostalgia cycle simultaneously.

01:04:44.660 Even as, you know, Pedro Pascal is wearing like a skirt.

01:04:49.220 um you know tom holland who is like a former like west end dancer yeah uh also like does a

01:04:56.800 photo shoot where he's like wearing a dirty tank top and like acting like a blacksmith right so i

01:05:01.940 think these are always existing simultaneously and they speak to different needs in different

01:05:07.360 people and different hopes and desires i think that is a fantastic place to end it so i want to

01:05:13.060 before we end i want to hear about your most recent books and what we have to look forward to

01:05:18.100 Oh, goodness. My most recent books. Well, my most recent young adult novel came out back in March. It's called One Word, Six Letters. It's sort of inspired by the time that I was called a faggot during a school visit. And it asked questions about accountability and restorative justice and queerness and body dysmorphia in teen boys.

01:05:40.320 um and that makes it sound really heavy but it's also i think very funny and if you're from kansas

01:05:46.460 city you'll definitely be like oh i know that place and then my next adult romance novel comes

01:05:50.860 out in september it's called isn't he romantic it's also set in kansas city and is a fake dating 0.75

01:05:56.920 story about a sort of high strung event production professional who is the slut of his friend group 0.78

01:06:02.340 named aria being dragged kicking and screaming into accidentally falling in love with a hot 0.99

01:06:07.080 cellist who wears slutty little glasses named them all of the themes and they also drink lots

01:06:13.680 of wine and bone a lot it's great uh first of all fake dating love fake dating known fake dating

01:06:21.060 aficionado here and we love non-coastal representation here on on culture studies

01:06:27.660 so very excited for this and where can people find you on the internet if they want to hear

01:06:31.260 more from you. I'm on adibkoram.com. I'm on Blue Sky and Instagram at adibkoram, A-D-I-B-K-H-O-R-R-A-M.

01:06:39.140 And I have a Patreon for my adult romances at Chateau Adib. Thank you so much for joining me.

01:06:44.720 This has been everything that I could have imagined and more so. I had so much fun. Thank you.

01:06:53.180 Thanks for listening to the Culture Study Podcast. Today, paid subscribers got a bonus

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Culture Study Podcast - July 15, 2026

Who Are The Heartthrobs of 2026？？？

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