00:01:50.160And it's, you know, it's morbid, but it's also, like, morbid stuff is also very funny.0.99
00:01:54.380anyone who's been through it knows that there are these moments that you're like oh my fucking god0.80
00:02:00.040this is ridiculous like yeah i have to laugh it's so surreal there are just things where you're0.95
00:02:05.180going to do something and it's it's going to seem like out of a movie like when we were moving my0.76
00:02:09.180dad's ashes from one urn to another i'm pretty sure i we were like i guess a red solo cup will
00:02:15.280do this will this is like the ideal moving utensil for this scenario oh my gosh i wish
00:02:21.660listeners could see how hard I'm laughing right now because that's exactly the sort of thing that
00:02:26.500we're talking about. Tell me, I want to start just by having you tell me about your parents.
00:02:32.920Sure. So my mom was a therapist, which makes all of this kind of especially ironic that she
00:02:39.900wouldn't talk about any of this stuff, but she was a therapist. That was her job. And she was
00:02:44.080a great mom overall. You know, we had our clashes as people do, but overall, I really miss her and
00:02:50.960we did not have an estranged relationship in any way. But she had her own problems and hers was
00:02:54.940alcohol. So she died in 2020 of liver disease. Not so fun. That was a very long, drawn out death.
00:03:02.720My dad, on the other hand, he was an architect. They both own their own businesses, came from a
00:03:07.400very entrepreneurial household. And he was an architect. He was like a grumpy Republican man.
00:03:15.480He loved like hunting and fishing, but like also Abba. Very strange. Yeah. And considering that, you know, I'm deeply not Republican, we got along pretty well overall. But he shortly after I moved to Louisville. So this was a treat. I had just moved out of state and he was then diagnosed with pancreatic cancer.
00:03:35.400So I ended up driving back and forth between Louisville and Wisconsin every two weeks to help my sister take care of him.
00:03:43.620And he died nine months later in early 2023.
00:03:46.580So it was a rough couple of years, to say the least.
00:03:51.100And I ended up kind of in charge of the executorship, all of the post-death logistical stuff.
00:03:58.800And I realized I had no idea what I was doing.
00:04:03.120I knew that was probably going to happen to me, but I suddenly realized that, you know, I knew that he had a will.
00:07:53.300And I think we do need different kinds of grief support and different kinds of support in all areas for caregivers because you're going to have people with a lot of different personalities.
00:08:01.340I know that I do a lot of gallows humor.
00:09:04.200And you can put however much you have in it.
00:09:05.800It's like having an invisible box where you put all your stuff into the box and now the box owns all of your stuff and you're just the trustee of your own stuff.
00:09:26.120So they had a living trust, but I did not know what that meant.
00:09:29.740So I went to see my dad's lawyer, and I didn't really know what to ask, and he didn't really know how to appropriately answer in regular human jargon.
00:09:37.800So, you know, I was just so confused as to what he was saying.
00:09:40.980And I asked, like, how do I know what all is in the trust?
00:09:44.020And he said, well, they should have had a list.
00:09:49.380So it turns out you look in the mail, the stuff that gets, like, mailed to you or mailed to anything that's in the trust, mail for it will be addressed to the trust, not to the person.
00:09:59.500So, you know, but I had to, like, figure that out.
00:10:01.800You still have to bring the will that goes with the trust to the court to file it there.
00:10:24.460And then I dealt with cleaning out and selling the one in Florida.0.76
00:10:28.600which that was just an adventure in real estate because millennials so good at real estate.0.95
00:10:34.940I actually do own a house, but that was like a weird pandemic fluke. And I was like,0.87
00:10:39.820I just have the money and I'm in this weird situation and I may never be able to do this
00:10:42.920again. So I'll buy the house. But I had no experience selling a house or selling it to
00:10:47.160other people or selling a condo in Florida, right? Selling a condo in Florida, getting rid of all the
00:10:53.860stuff. You know, there's just like that in and of itself takes a long time is getting rid of all
00:10:57.540the stuff, getting into bank accounts, looking up all their passwords. My dad had written down
00:11:02.580his passwords, which was very useful. Not all of them worked. So just kind of figuring that stuff
00:11:10.040out. And then, of course, there was the stuff that they should have put in the trust but forgot to
00:11:13.840put in the trust because they were human. So trusts have a pour over will for that purpose.
00:11:18.840But you still have to go to the court and say, look, all of this stuff was supposed to be in
00:11:23.080the trust. So I had to hire a lawyer to do probate court in Florida to get that stuff into the trust
00:11:29.640so that I could get rid of it. And then there's the car. Do you want to hear about the car? It's
00:11:33.540an exciting... Let's wait on the car because I feel like it's going to be an answer to one of
00:11:38.020our questions. It's going to allow you to talk about the car. How long do you want me to talk
00:11:41.960about this? There's so much stuff that you have to do. And like while I'm doing a full-time job
00:11:45.720and while I'm grieving, so... Yes. No, and that's the other thing. There's this great TikTok that
00:11:49.980we'll include in the show notes about like good morning like on my way to go to the bank again
00:11:56.740to try to get them to like hand over the money that was in there like or to close the account
00:12:01.720like how many times how much work like how much actual daily work it is to handle accounts close
00:12:09.980accounts like convince the freaking like cell phone company to stop charging your dead parent
00:12:16.100You know, like, yeah, that it's just negotiating with the credit card company to close down the
00:12:21.800cards. Just I cannot tell you how many times I filled out the same iteration of paperwork that
00:12:29.460I then have to get notarized, you know, for different companies or like there's just little
00:12:33.700things where the same company will have me fill out slightly different versions of forms for
00:12:37.720various things. It's obnoxious. And your parents had a living trust like they did the work and
00:12:42.680this is what you had to do yes it's still it's it makes it easier but it's still hard yes so for
00:12:48.980this episode we wanted it to be really practical like to have it be a resource for people who are
00:12:54.900freaking out or about to start freaking out or think that they should start freaking out about
00:12:59.680their parents deaths so we're talking specifically about parents with a lot of these questions but
00:13:05.300this can apply to anyone who like you are legally or financially responsible for so like this could
00:13:11.820apply to a sibling who has appointed you like that you would be the next person that would be
00:13:16.620in charge of them or a great aunt like I know a lot of people who have relatives who didn't have
00:13:20.780kids and the relative appointed them like the person in their will so right lots of expansiveness
00:13:28.860here this also we're probably going to get to this but talking about what happens like if your
00:13:33.840partner dies and you aren't married like there are lots of complicated things that happen yeah
00:13:38.360Or like if you're a stepkid and they didn't legally adopt you, that's a problem.
00:13:44.020So we've got questions about to-do lists, about estrangement, about who needs a will, so much more.
00:13:49.480And we're going to get started with this question from Robin, who just wants to help talking about death in general.
00:13:55.320This is, we got so many versions of this question, so it's a huge one.
00:13:59.400It's hard enough having conversations about wills and burial plots and DNRs.
00:14:04.040How do you suggest that people talk to their aging parents about the minutiae of all this death paperwork when they barely want to talk about that eventuality at all?
00:14:12.900When my dad died, he left me a list of all of his accounts and passwords, and from that experience, I made my mom give me her password manager password.
00:14:21.080Without those, I have no idea where I'd have even started with trying to figure out where all my dad's accounts were, let alone having to wait for all the death paperwork that those institutions then require in order to give you access.
00:14:32.560Few people want to burden their adult children with all of this admin when they die, but
00:14:36.900they also usually don't want to talk about it.
00:14:39.300How have you seen people broach this conversation well?
00:14:42.400What approaches help break through the emotion of thinking about dying to have a very practical
00:14:51.460I feel like it's the conversation no one wants to have.
00:14:54.300I didn't really have a concrete conversation about it with my parents before they died.
00:14:58.540I knew that they wanted to be cremated, but that's kind of it.
00:15:00.540So in this scenario, I would say it's a good idea to approach it through aspects of their personality or interests, perhaps.
00:15:10.820Like if a beloved golfer dies that they really loved, you could sort of broach the topic that way or at least start talking about death in that way.
00:15:20.260It could at least provide an opening to have that discussion.
00:15:23.560You can make it, I think this can be helpful because I think one barrier to this conversation
00:15:27.600is that parents don't like the role reversal aspect of it.
00:15:31.400They don't want to think about you taking care of them because they're supposed to be
00:16:50.880There's an amazing nonprofit called The Conversation Project.
00:16:54.380Their whole goal is to help people have these conversations.
00:16:57.380And they have conversation guides in various languages that you can just print out, like these workbooks.
00:17:03.980So if it's really not going, you can just say, I need you to fill this out.
00:17:07.940And then I need you to give it back to me.
00:17:09.900And then the awkwardness of the conversation doesn't have to happen.
00:17:13.080Ideally, you do have that conversation.
00:17:14.740I think it's better to actually talk about it.
00:17:17.280But because, you know, you might bring up things that they aren't even considering, but if it's just simply they're like the most tight lipped people on earth and it's simply not going to happen, perhaps that is a strategy you could go for.
00:17:29.080The other thing I'm thinking of is you can either get an example from somewhere else in your life, like a friend or make up an example. I'm just some like small like white lies of incredible difficulty that someone has had to go through because their parents wouldn't talk to them about stuff.
00:17:46.460right yeah so like they were in the courts for years and like like there's a horror story that
00:17:52.360i know of a friend who like they were going to like have a giant parcel of land that they were
00:17:57.340going to inherit that would have like changed their lives and because they never got to like
00:18:02.520figuring out the last details of the will it went to like an organization that this person had
00:18:08.000select it on a whim and but yeah you know like that that sort of thing like or especially if you
00:18:16.840have a complicated family in any way and I'm talking about like step parents estranged parents
00:18:21.680people who are still related to you that you don't talk to anymore like toxicity if stuff isn't laid
00:18:27.940out very clearly you will have to deal with those people a lot yeah update your beneficiaries you
00:18:34.940know when you get those annoying emails from HR that are like, it's time to update your
00:18:38.560beneficiaries on your insurance policy. Do that because I've heard a lot of horror stories of
00:18:42.440people leaving all their life insurance money to their ex because they never changed it.
00:18:45.520Yep. Yeah. So just having entryways to those discussions. Yeah. I think maybe bringing up
00:18:51.560some horror stories could be good. Yeah. The Culture Study Podcast is sponsored by ZocDoc.
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00:20:39.600off your to-do list that's Z-O-C-D-O-C.com slash culture this episode is sponsored by Article
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00:22:52.280$50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. Okay, our next question is from Christina,
00:23:05.600and it's about getting ready for the inevitable. Is there a to-do list we should follow to help
00:23:11.760our elderly parents conduct estate planning and other end-of-life planning necessities?
00:23:16.680My sibling and I are dealing with rapidly declining health and a recent dementia diagnosis.
00:23:22.280And suddenly, over the last few weeks, it seems like all I can think about is how to plan to sell a house, whether someone with dementia is still competent to update legal documents, how to work with a parent to make a decision between leaving money and trust for their spouse's care and leaving it to the spouse outright, etc.
00:23:38.000I feel like we're at the beginning of the end of the road.
00:23:40.560The panic is setting in, and I don't know what steps to take to make the road easier for everyone.
00:24:45.040It doesn't have to happen all at once. And you can talk about it piecemeal in those lucid moments, I would say. It's tricky about when people with dementia can sign legal documents because it kind of depends on the state. And just to be clear, I am not a lawyer, nor am I an accountant, but I did a lot of research for my book.
00:25:02.980But I would suggest maybe if you can manage it talking in advance to an elder care attorney in a state where your parents live just to get some clarification on what the laws and regulations are there in that regard.
00:25:15.320And obviously, it's not like you have to go behind your parents back to do this.
00:25:19.040If they're willing to have that conversation, you can all go together and talk about that stuff.
00:25:23.180I think just because someone has dementia, you don't have to treat them like a baby necessarily.
00:25:27.360You know, you can sort of bring them into these conversations when they're lucid enough to realize what's going on or, you know, it can be a family discussion.
00:25:36.000The other thing that this is something that I just started thinking about in terms of, like, do you create a trust?
00:25:41.660The way that Christina is framing this situation is that there's a step parent who is not her this like not Christina's parent that needs to will still survive.
00:28:40.680It is about just the state making sure that they because, of course, if they can't find any heirs, the state gets all of that money and property.
00:28:51.960I will also say that your your dad in this case is absolutely not alone in not having made a will.
00:28:58.160The majority of people in the United States do not have a will.
00:29:01.440I was looking up statistics when I got this question.
00:29:03.860And in 2024, according to a caring dot com study, only 32 percent of U.S. adults reported having a will.
00:29:10.180And I think you're right. I think some people, if they don't have a lot of stuff, think that they don't need a will. It's simply not something that they need to do. And they, in fact, do need to do it because it's not going to spare anyone probate court. If you don't have a will, you still have to go through the probate process. It's just intestacy, which means the state gets to decide who gets what rather than you deciding who gets what.
00:29:38.280I also think a lot of people think it's very expensive to make a will.
00:29:41.700And it can be, but it doesn't have to be.
00:29:44.060There are a lot of websites, especially if you don't have a complicated estate, if you do just like, I own a car, the end, whatever.
00:29:49.500There are a lot of websites for a very low fee or in the case of some of them for free.
00:29:54.460You can make a will, like a boilerplate will.
00:29:57.540You just fill out the information and then all you have to do afterwards is print it out and then get it witnessed and notarized.
00:30:04.440And you can find a notary at the bank, at the UPS store.
00:30:06.860You know, there's lots of places where you can find a notary.
00:30:09.000So it's something that you can do pretty easily.
00:30:13.080And you should do because, like I said, it's going to be much harder on your family if they have to go through the intestacy process.
00:30:19.700Someone is still going to be doing all the work that the executor would.
00:30:23.120they'll just be called a personal administrator and they'll have to jump through extra hoops to
00:30:27.000be able to do everything. So yeah, it's better if you can make a will. I really agree with Megan
00:30:31.800that like there's something about capital W wills that like makes me think of like Scrooge McDuck
00:30:37.900or something. It's like a rich person thing almost, right? Because inheritance is like
00:30:43.340so bourgeois in this way. And we think of them as this means for inheritance, but it's not
00:30:48.940just for the inheritance it's like just trying to tie up loose ends so it's like who has permission
00:30:54.860to tie up loose ends who has permission to get my last paycheck from work who has permission to pay
00:30:59.460off my remaining bills or not you know oh and something that's uh i like to remind people
00:31:04.100because people freak out about this all the time but you don't inherit your parents debts so if
00:31:08.460your parents didn't have a lot of money you do not have to personally pay off the debts with your
00:31:13.040money their estate so that's whatever money and property is left over in their estate that pays
00:31:18.600off those bills. And if there's not enough money in the estate, those creditors are just out of
00:31:22.620luck. You do not have to do it with your own money. It's not going to affect your credit,
00:31:26.100nothing like that. Of course, there may be some incidentals, you know, during the process where
00:31:30.400you end up having to pay something. But in terms of your parents' debts, unless you co-signed on
00:31:36.080a loan with them or something, you are not on the hook for that. I will just also note here
00:31:41.560that I think a lot of people who do not live in traditional structures in the United States,
00:31:50.020like who are not married, who do not have children, like people like me, like we are
00:31:55.240actually the most at risk when and if something happens to us. Like I have been in long
00:32:02.600conversations with a lawyer about getting me and Charlie's wills put together. And because we are
00:32:07.820not married, it is so much more complicated. Like we have to make mirrored wills. And it costs
00:32:16.020double the cost to do like, we can't do a joint. Even though we are in Washington, there is no
00:32:22.080common law marriage in the way that there are in some other states. Like it doesn't, we have to
00:32:26.800have two different wills. And the other thing is that when, like if a child dies and their parents
00:32:33.660are divorced and if their parents like really don't get along they still have to deal with all0.72
00:32:38.300the shit like together and that would be a really horrible thing for your parents to have to do
00:32:43.100together so i'll just note that for any other people our age because i think we are often us0.99
00:32:49.580like our age and younger are the people who feel like they don't need wills either right and you
00:32:54.240absolutely do because you never know when you'll be uh horribly killed in the vicious ice cream
00:33:00.120accident of 2028 or whatever um you know like you don't know what's going to happen um and and so
00:33:06.280it's good to have that stuff taken care of it can also create some peace of mind like i've got this
00:33:09.960taken care of i don't need to worry about it um and you can ask your friends to be your executor
00:33:15.780it doesn't and you can leave stuff to your friends it doesn't have to be like i don't have a partner
00:33:19.740either so like my best friend is the executor of my will i said lita will you be the executor of
00:33:25.320my will it was all very um uh friendly my best friend is also the executor because she like i
00:33:31.880was like who is the best person at paperwork in my friend group like that is my best friend so yeah
00:33:36.860yeah that's who you want to go with um yeah uh so yeah and i guess something else uh worth talking
00:33:43.420about is there is this thing called small estate affidavits or summary probate if the person who
00:33:49.320dies really doesn't have a lot of money you can usually file some sort of form with the probate
00:33:54.000court to say this amount of a state, like this state is so small that it's not even worth your
00:33:59.220time. And you can then just handle it almost the way you would with the trust. Like they'll just
00:34:03.160be like, sure, you take it, you know. But a lot of people don't know that that even exists. And
00:34:08.760the limit is different for every state. And it's just, you know, so it's sometimes you still end
00:34:14.040up with a lawyer just to either help you fill out the paperwork or to even know that such a limit
00:34:17.500It exists. Yeah. Melody, quick aside. Do you feel like we've defined probate?
00:34:22.280Well, please do. Yeah. Probate court probate, the word if we want to get real nerdy about this, the word probate, the etymology of it is to prove it's like to prove a will.
00:34:36.400So the idea behind probate court is that it is proving the validity of somebody's will and that what is mandated in the will is being distributed correctly so that what the person wrote in their will is being executed correctly.
00:34:52.240So if there's an executor of the will, that's just the person who closes all the accounts and et cetera, you know, is named in the will to do that. The court supervises that and make sure everything is going the way it should.
00:35:03.520um i'm trying to think what else okay i have an example so like there's someone i know who
00:35:09.980died and this is the person who um still had it in their will to give all of the money to
00:35:15.760a large charitable foundation but you got to sell all the stuff you got to sell the business you got
00:35:22.260to sell the land you got to sell the cars like you got to do all that stuff and so in this case
00:35:28.040the probate court appointed someone who is almost like given a salary, almost like they're paid
00:35:33.660money from the estate, from the estate to do all the work of selling the stuff so that it can then
00:35:39.320eventually pass to this other place. But like you said earlier, probate court is like they're kind
00:35:45.300of like HR, like probate is not your friend. Like it's no one's friend. Exactly. They are they're
00:35:51.360obsessed with just figuring out, OK, here's the title to this place and here's the title to this
00:35:55.740place and who is getting the title now and if no one takes the title then it's ours like0.98
00:35:59.300waiting for someone to fuck up so that they can take the title it's not that devious but you0.97
00:36:03.800understand right right yeah it's not like they're twirling their mustaches and do it cackling evil0.99
00:36:08.380laughs or something it's just that they're it's their job it's like they have an administrative
00:36:11.700government role to figure out chain of title and that's really it they don't particularly care how
00:36:16.860sad you are they deal with sad people all day yeah um yeah oh and the other thing i should say
00:36:21.300that just because you don't have a will doesn't mean you get to skip probate court. If there is
00:36:26.320no will, that just means the person has died intestate, which just means without a will,
00:36:31.000they have no testament. And so you still have to go through court, but you have to petition to be
00:36:37.040the personal administrator. And then you just get to do everything an executor got to do. And if
00:36:41.300nobody petitions to be the personal administrator, the court will find someone to do it and they'll
00:36:45.540appoint you. Wow. So wait, clarifying question. So nobody is exempt from probate court. There's
00:36:52.720like no way to get around this bureaucracy. Well, there are mostly, but there are some ways to get
00:37:00.700around probate court. One of them is having a living trust. We talked about that. Technically,
00:37:05.920these are all called non-probate transfers is like the fancy legal term for it. But yeah,
00:37:11.600So a very popular one is having a living trust or some other kind of trust, but revocable living trusts are the most common when you're just trying to skip probate court.
00:37:21.240That's what I'm going to do is I'm going to create a living trust, which is part of the reason it's more expensive.
00:37:25.940Yeah, it is because you have to sit down more with the lawyer and you have to transfer everything over.
00:37:30.740Life insurance policies, like if the money that comes from a life insurance policy as, you know, the benefit doesn't have to go through probate court.
00:37:38.740There's also things called pay on death bank accounts.
00:37:41.600And if you set up a pay-on-death bank account, it's kind of almost like a life insurance policy, but for a bank account, it's just whoever's named as the beneficiary just gets that money automatically.
00:37:51.980It doesn't have to go through probate court.
00:37:54.300Really good way to pay for funerals if you're worried about paying your funeral.
00:37:57.360Set up a pay-on-death bank account and have the money in there, and then it just goes to someone.
00:38:01.480So there are some ways to get around probate court.
00:38:04.440Those are probably the three most common ways to get around probate court.
00:38:09.300But yeah, if you don't set up anything, they're not getting out of probate court.
00:38:12.840If you don't have a lot of stuff, too bad.
00:38:14.540They still have to file a small estate affidavit.
00:38:38.900you're a no dunker yeah when i go to the pool i turn it to a six-year-old like i'm i'm doing
00:38:45.860headstand contests i'm doing the martha washington with my hair over and over again i love going
00:38:54.400underwater at the pool and it absolutely wreaks havoc on my hair plus just like having hats on
00:39:01.380it when i'm going out gardening like it just like this is just a tough season for my hair0.50
00:39:05.480So the one thing that I could do, like the one way that I can actually be nice to my hair during this time is to have a wonderful cooling silk pillowcase that actually decreases my frizz and my breakage when everything else in my life is conspiring to make my hair look like crap.
00:40:16.560Your summer hair and weary skin will thank you.
00:40:20.880Today's episode is sponsored by Z-Biotics.
00:40:23.440my friends here on the island and I just made a joint purchase of a slushy machine
00:40:29.280I won't say the brand but it's a it's a highly recommended one we read a lot of reviews
00:40:36.040some of the slushies that we're making are for children but then we have done a lot of research
00:40:42.480into how to make the perfect pina colada oh my gosh can I come over yes 100 and here's the thing
00:40:50.520about a pina colada though it tastes so freaking good that it can be very dangerous right like you
00:40:56.440have more than one because you're like oh this just tastes like the best dessert i've ever had
00:41:01.460so before you have your perfect slushy pina colada made with your collectively owned slushy machine
00:41:10.300you can take some steps to make sure you don't feel like crap the next day specifically you can
00:41:16.540take zbiotics pre-alcoholic probiotic drink it's the world's first genetically engineered probiotic
00:41:22.440here's how it works when you drink alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut and
00:41:28.080it's the buildup of this byproduct not dehydration that's to blame for rough nights after drinking
00:41:33.360frose or your pina colada or whatever you make in your collectively owned slushy machine pre-alcohol
00:41:38.840produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down you just have to remember i just have to remember
00:41:43.920to make pre-alcohol my first drink of the night or your first drink of the night. Drink responsibly.
00:41:51.140Don't drink the entire thing of pina coladas and you'll feel your best tomorrow. July is packed
00:41:57.940with opportunities to use your collectively owned slushy machine. Even if you don't have one,
00:42:03.140maybe you're drinking other things like, I don't know, there's so many good like seltzers these
00:42:08.180days, margaritas, so many things. Whatever you're drinking, keep those good times rolling into the
00:42:14.460next day by drinking pre-alcohol before you go out and wake up ready for whatever the next day
00:42:18.780brings. Remember to head to zbiotics.com slash culture study and use the code culture study
00:42:23.900at checkout for 15% off. Next question comes from Sarah. What are the first, let's say three things,
00:42:35.840the most important pieces of paperworky shit to take on. Like, how do you prioritize when you0.95
00:42:41.960are griefy and overwhelmed so you don't completely mess everything up? And a related question is,
00:42:48.720what should I make sure I know from a loved one before they die that would drastically have me
00:42:54.700thanking myself for having asked? Okay, I love this. This is like preparing for future self.
00:43:00.180What would you tell Sarah? I love the term paperworky shit. First of all, that is what0.99
00:43:04.780it feels like. Paperwork-y shit. So I was a little, I think she's talking about what three0.99
00:43:11.040paperwork things would you tackle after someone dies. But just in case, since I'm here, I will
00:43:15.260say before someone dies, you want to do a power of attorney, an advanced health care directive,
00:43:19.800and a will. Those are the three big ones. People think you need a lawyer for all of them. You
00:43:23.520don't just for the will or unless you make it online. But for advanced health care directive
00:43:27.860and a power of attorney, you can find those forms on the internet and fill them out. And you usually
00:43:33.340just need witnesses or a notary. It kind of depends on the state. But that's something you
00:43:37.500can easily do without a lawyer present. The will gets a little more complicated, but I think people
00:43:42.620tend to worry about that stuff. No, those those parts are easy if thinking about your own mortality
00:43:48.040is easy. But and then also something that's worth noting is that the power of attorney and the
00:43:53.880advanced health care directive stop working the second you die. Those are for like I am alive,
00:43:58.620but incapacitated. Those are what those are for. That's what the will, like the last will
00:44:03.060and testament is for, because once you die, that takes over. Again, why are all these systems so
00:44:07.660separate? But they are. If, however, Sarah is talking about what you paperwork stuff you want
00:44:14.500to handle after someone dies, the first thing I'll say is that you can't do any of it right away
00:44:19.140because the first thing you need is the death certificate. How do you get death certificates?
00:44:23.540You get them through the funeral home. So when you are dealing with the funeral home, you will
00:44:27.920give the funeral home a lot of information about your dead loved one. They will then take that
00:44:32.460information and file for the death certificates. And oftentimes they'll like offer in their
00:44:37.120packages, like this package comes with five death certificates. It's so awkward. You are going to
00:44:44.240need so many death certificates because every single company, including like the cell phone
00:44:49.780company or whatever, is going to want a death certificate. And most of them won't give them
00:44:54.100back to you because they're jerks and they're expensive. You have to pay for them. So that's1.00
00:44:57.200why you they can cost anywhere from like six to like 25 bucks you know it just depends on where
00:45:02.400you're living um but yeah you usually get them through the funeral home make sure you're putting
00:45:06.960the right information on there because i like i said my parents had a condo in wisconsin and a
00:45:12.980condo in florida my dad had died up in wisconsin so i put that address but his legal address was
00:45:18.880in florida so i had to pay to get them all redone don't do what i did make sure you put the make
00:45:24.100sure you just focus through all that grief as if you can really think and put the put the correct
00:45:29.240address on there um so fun uh but once you could yeah the death certificates can take like honestly
00:45:36.020weeks to come so i would say yeah it took like two weeks for my dad you know sometimes it's faster
00:45:40.780sometimes it's slower depending on the bureaucracy of your state so um i would say take that time to
00:45:46.500just grieve and do that stuff um maybe plan a funeral but uh once you get the death certificates
00:45:51.920I would say the top three things are the bank is a big one. You got to get their access to their
00:45:58.240money to pay off whatever bills and et cetera they had. So you will need that death certificate.
00:46:06.240You might need letters of administration from a court. It kind of depends.
00:46:10.100So the big three, maybe I should go in order. Probate court. So you bring the death certificate
00:46:15.440to the probate court to say this person has officially died and I either have a will or
00:46:20.060I don't and get that process started. Also, any life insurance, because you're probably at this
00:46:26.240point dropping a lot of your own money to plan for a funeral. So if there is life insurance,
00:46:30.040I would file that claim. So it sounds so gross, like, oh, get your money. But like,
00:46:34.760you're going to need that money to cover your expenses up front. So if there is a life insurance
00:46:38.980policy, I would do that. And then the bank is the other one. Those are probably the top three I would
00:46:43.540start with. And if there's any one thing you should ask your parents, that's hard because there are
00:46:48.220like a million things you should ask them. But I would say ask if they can for a list of assets
00:46:53.640and how much they're worth, because A, you're going to need to compile that for the probate
00:46:57.600process. They're going to ask you for a list of assets and how much they're worth. But also there
00:47:01.900may be some assets on there that surprise you because like my parents, they had a building
00:47:07.940that my dad had designed where both their businesses operated out of, but they had sold
00:47:12.700their businesses. So I had assumed they had sold the building and they hadn't. So there was like
00:47:17.420extra building when I was trying to deal with all this stuff. But luckily, I knew who they
00:47:23.140were selling it to and they were in the process of selling it. So it was fine. But it was just
00:47:26.600like, whoops, whole extra, whole extra property. The other thing that I would add here, and this
00:47:31.520is like my nightmare, personal nightmare scenario, is like, see if you can get them before they die
00:47:37.740to do a 1Password situation. This is good for many reasons because of digital fraud, because of
00:47:45.360like all sorts of things but to have a one pass and then you have the password to the one password
00:47:50.340like that's going to give you access to retirement accounts it's going to give you access to their
00:47:55.380email so you can see when like weird bills come in that's going to allow you to look at the the
00:48:00.160bank statement like i've just heard from so many people who think that they have like canceled all
00:48:04.840of the things and then they're like and yet still i am getting charged this like random bill from
00:48:10.880this random thing that my parents signed up for like and I it was an annual subscription so I
00:48:16.120didn't realize from the credit card statement that it was a ever renewing annual experience like
00:48:20.840thing and then like it overdrafted the account or blah blah blah right like yeah get all those
00:48:26.080things that would be hugely helpful like my parents were so technophobic I don't know if I
00:48:30.960ever could have gotten them to do that but like if you can get them to do that do that that would
00:48:35.140shout out to my mom who has done this and has told me exactly where the one password is and
00:48:39.840like all of those things so yes we love parents who embrace technology thank you technology and
00:48:44.960has done like supreme planning because she doesn't want to create this this extra labor for us so
00:48:50.520yeah it's an act of love sorry i have a clarifying question are there time constraints around all of
00:48:57.140this like are there deadlines for when you have to go to probate court or can you like take your
00:49:01.340time while you're grieving not it's it's squeaky there's not like a concrete time i would say
00:49:07.740probably within a month go to the probate court. Because again, you can't go to the probate court
00:49:13.660until you get the death certificates. So don't even worry about it until then. But I would say
00:49:18.180after you get the death certificates, that should give you time to locate whether or not there is
00:49:22.600a will also. And then once you know whether or not there is or is not a will, you can head over
00:49:28.540to the probate court. When I talked to the state attorneys for my book, they said about a month
00:49:34.260sounded right you know but then in terms of how long it can take kind of depends on the complexity
00:49:39.740of the estate and how quickly you can do things while also parenting or doing a full-time job or
00:49:45.840all of the above you know it really kind of depends so there are a couple things like loose
00:49:50.680ends that I am still my dad died in 2023 there are a couple things that I am still trying to tie up
00:49:55.720just because they're especially irritating and because I didn't have the time to do them before
00:50:00.160so are there penalties like what if you don't go to probate court like what happens that's such a
00:50:06.900great question i don't know i think it's technically illegal but i've never heard of anyone being like
00:50:12.040i think it would be your parent died and you didn't go to court like maybe just the state0.88
00:50:17.400just takes all the shit yeah i think the state could eventually just take all the stuff or of0.98
00:50:21.660course if you were like using their resources without permission they could charge you with0.99
00:50:24.820fraud, you know. But I've never heard of anyone being like, and they were arrested for not going
00:50:32.220to probate court fast enough. Right. Next question is from Lauren, and it's about how all of this
00:50:37.640works with parents that you are personally estranged from. I would love to hear about
00:50:41.800the specific scenario of estranged parents dying. I'm estranged from my father for good reasons,
00:50:47.460and I dread the paperwork nightmare that will come with his death. Although getting any
00:50:51.600inheritance would be a welcome gift, what things can or should I do to help prepare for the special
00:50:57.200circumstance of having an estranged, difficult parent die? What responsibilities fall to children?
00:51:03.420What will the state take on, if anything? I know he has a will, but we haven't spoken in over a
00:51:07.960decade about it. What can I do to make my life easier when he inevitably dies? This is such an
00:51:14.000important question. I'm so glad we have this. That's why I chose it. So yeah, and that sucks.
00:51:19.180It's a tough one. And it's something that happens to so many people. The state's not going to take on anything, first of all. Like the state's, that's not the state's job is not to make your life easier. So the state, unfortunately, is not going to take on anything. And this is tough, not only because you're dealing with the emotional impact of estrangement and you're mourning the relationship you could have had, but it's also tough because you don't really know the specifics because you don't talk. You don't even know if that will is still in effect or if he's written you out entirely.0.96
00:51:45.420Totally. Yeah. It's like he doesn't even have one anymore. It's like, who knows? So you're like in this black box of like, what even is going to happen? I would say if you do talk to anyone who still talks to him, maybe see if they could broach the topic in any way or like get some info, you know, see if they could do some reconnaissance for you.
00:52:04.060that could be helpful um you if you do end up being the executor if that will is still in effect
00:52:10.200and you're the executor of the estate you can take on that work technically you have the option
00:52:16.240if you for whatever reason really don't want to do it your estrangement is too painful you don't
00:52:20.740want to take on that role um you can technically petition the court and say like i'm not fit to be
00:52:26.280an executor but you have to prove why like you would have to go to court and explain and you
00:52:31.080might have to get a lawyer you're gonna have to do legal fees and stuff so technically you can step
00:52:35.740away from that role the court like gives you an option but you do have to go still go through the
00:52:40.460court uh to get rid of of that um but i think the best thing you could do is maybe familiarize
00:52:46.240yourself with the probate process in the state where your estranged parent lives yeah um maybe
00:52:51.860even contact an estate attorney in that area and just get an overview of what the laws are because
00:52:56.960then at least you'll know what steps you are in for, even if you can't talk to your parent directly
00:53:04.920about what's left for you to do or what property there will be, etc. You at least can get an idea
00:53:10.000of what the laws are. That's such a good idea, especially if this is something like one of those
00:53:15.660kind of like in the middle of the night you think about like what a clusterfuck it's going to be0.95
00:53:19.840when you're a strange parent dies. Like if that will put your mind slightly at ease that at least0.99
00:53:24.700you know what the process is going to look like. And, you know, an hour with an estate attorney
00:53:29.160in that state, it's not going to cost you that much money. And it's not that much for peace of
00:53:34.160mind. So I strongly suggest that. Okay. Next and final question is about strained relationships.
00:53:41.200And I just thought this was a good one for us to end on. This is from Sean.
00:53:45.000My parents are in their late 70s and are still living independently, but I know I will be the
00:53:49.460one dealing with the paperwork when they die. My siblings and I have a difficult relationship with
00:53:54.120our parents. They recently told me that they created a trust and that I will be the executor
00:53:59.220of that trust and refuse to give me any other information. I'm not sure what my question is
00:54:04.380here. I guess I'm just looking for reassurance and tips from Becky about how to manage this
00:54:08.880knowledge of my ignorance. I am spending my days carrying around a constant low level of anxiety,
00:54:14.560knowing that I will oversee something that I have no information about. For reference,
00:54:18.620I'm a 51-year-old female, the youngest of three children. I have a twin sister and an older sister
00:54:24.540who is 54, and my two siblings are barely on speaking terms with my parents these days.
00:54:30.000My siblings and I have always had a fraught relationship with our parents as they have
00:54:34.300exceptionally strong personalities and have rarely respected our boundaries and autonomy
00:54:39.660as children. I think I'm only the executor of the trust by default because I'm the only child with
00:54:45.860whom they have consistently maintained communication in the last few years.
00:54:50.660What advice can you offer to the person who will one day oversee what is likely to be
00:55:13.520But even if they didn't, you have that pour over will. Any attorney worth their salt is going to have a pour over will with that trust. So if there's something that they left out, you can take that pour over will and go to the court and say it's supposed to go in the trust and it'll take a bit, but they'll move that over for you.
00:55:30.060So that's great because then what that means is you can start dealing with creditors, all of that stuff right from the get go.
00:55:36.500You don't have to be supervised by the court to do any of that.
00:55:39.960So if they have a credit card bill, you can just immediately call the credit card company and be like, I want to cancel this card.
00:55:44.420You know, you can just start going through that stuff right away.
00:55:58.820You're effectively the executor. And then trusts have different terms. Probably it's hard when you don't know exactly what they set up. But most likely it's going to be a revocable living trust, which is just a way to do the same thing as a will, but without probate court. But theoretically, I mean, just like with the will, they could have left. The terms of the trust could be like, you are required to distribute all of this property to our alma mater or to our church or whatever or to take care of our fancy bonsai tree. You know what I mean? Like, it's just you don't know.
00:56:28.820And then as a trustee, you do have a fiduciary obligation to all of the beneficiaries of that trust.
00:56:36.640So that would probably be your siblings, I would guess, but who knows, you know.
00:56:40.560But so just make sure you're communicating with your siblings about what the terms of the trust are.
00:56:46.040You show them the paperwork if they will ask to see the paperwork.
00:56:58.400it's because my sister doesn't like to think about any of that stuff. And so I will often say
00:57:02.540to my sister, hey, do you want to know about this? And she's like, no, I don't want to talk about
00:57:06.560this ever. Just do this stuff. But the fact that you're being really transparent about it
00:57:10.820is really, I think, helpful to the health of your relationship and any siblings who are dealing with
00:57:16.200this. Same thing. Yeah. I feel really lucky that I did not have estranged relationship issues in
00:57:22.440any regard or difficult family members. My sister and I, we squabble sometimes, but we knew we were
00:57:26.640going to split it 50 50 it's fine i tried to get rid of my parents stuff to my relative to like
00:57:30.740their siblings i was like surely you want these sentimental pieces and they're like no we're old
00:57:35.300we don't want any more stuff and i'm like you're not helping me you know we have a whole other
00:57:42.020episode that's all about like what to do with all of your parents stuff so it'll be such a great
00:57:48.380paired episode with this um but i do think like being transparent also uh this sounds like a
00:57:57.600classic like scenario where the parents aren't saying anything about the the like details of
00:58:02.580the trust in part because they don't want to cause like they want any drama that it causes to be none
00:58:08.880of their business which is like so rude um but hopefully it's something very simple like a
00:58:14.120three-way split or something like that yeah but also like one nice thing about this is that like
00:58:20.120what is legally in the trust the executor is bound to execute that right like they can't be like no
00:58:26.240I changed my mind actually like we should do this instead yeah yeah no it's like the terms of the
00:58:30.840trust you have to follow the terms of the trust you can't just be like oh they left it all to
00:58:34.700their bonsai tree I say no no you can't do that you have to follow what the trust says yeah um
00:58:39.620I'm trying to think, is there anything else, like, have you heard from people who have, like, used some of the advice from your site or from the book, like, anything that's made people feel like they're less alone?
00:58:54.780Like, I want to give us a little hope at the end of this episode that, like, this is survivable, I guess.
00:59:02.700You are going to figure it out because you have to.
00:59:05.180I would say, first of all, I tend to tell people that they don't inherit their parents' debts because that seems to take a large weight off their mind.
00:59:13.340You know, they don't have to worry about that.
00:59:15.100And I think that's not something that's clear.
00:59:18.980And then I would also say you are more important than the probate process.
00:59:24.580Like your life is more important than figuring this stuff out.
00:59:27.140So don't feel bad if you take breaks to do things.
00:59:32.060You know, like if you want to hang out with your friends instead of go through the bills that night, you should prioritize that because your current living existence is more important than what your dead parents wanted.
00:59:43.420So just take the time to like keep in touch with your friends.
00:59:48.980Like a lot of people have difficulty, I think, because especially people our age haven't gone through it a lot.
00:59:55.220So if you're talking to your friends, I have nice friends, so they will help me with things.
00:59:58.840you know um hey do you want to sit with me at the brewery while I go through this mail you know
01:00:04.340stuff like that just you don't have to do it alone you can do it with other people you can
01:00:08.240talk to your friends about it it is survivable you can learn this stuff I don't think of myself
01:00:14.140as particularly like oh financial wunderkind you know what I mean I studied I have an English
01:00:19.460degree you know but like but I did learn it it's possible to figure it out yeah and I think like
01:00:26.780do you feel like finding a lawyer is also an opaque process? Because I found one for me that
01:00:35.200this is actually like so serendipitous. I asked my financial advisor, like, is there a lawyer that
01:00:40.820you recommend? Because I just didn't know how to like you Google lawyer, right? And she recommended
01:00:49.120the best, like this person who like, she's queer, and she really understands, like, that there should
01:00:56.280be a way and a place for different sorts of like wills and planning and all this sort of thing like0.67
01:01:01.620she was just we're just on the same wavelength and you can find that person it might be kind of hard
01:01:06.040but you can find that person who can help you grapple with all of this stuff i was terrified
01:01:10.220to get a lawyer because i think we put lawyers on a pedestal in our society they're like oh they had
01:01:15.060to take the bar they're the smartest people and i don't after talking to many i'm not sure that's
01:01:18.860always true but like you know but they're like normal people with normal jobs and you find one
01:01:23.820The same way you find any other thing, which is either by Googling it and looking at reviews or asking your friends for recommendations or asking your financial advisor or your bank or whoever for a recommendation.
01:01:34.940Your state bar association, usually on their website, will have like a list where you can filter by, you know, by what's the word I'm looking for?
01:01:44.760So you can filter for estate attorneys or elder law attorneys.
01:01:48.200You find it the same way you find your hair salon ultimately, you know.
01:01:52.500But so it's not that intimidating. And talking to a lawyer is not that intimidating in the end, but it might feel that way.
01:02:00.600And if you have a lawyer friend who does not do this type of law, which like I have like many lawyer friends who don't do this type of law at all, but they know people who do that they like like as people and think would be nice.
01:02:12.000So you can always go that direction as well. Yeah, absolutely.
01:02:14.780Melody is there anything else that is still on your mind about like any of this I just want to
01:02:21.920like answer all questions no I feel like I know 100% more than I did at the outset
01:02:28.180I know a lot more too and even that's like even though I have been talking to a lawyer about my
01:02:35.620own will and also like know a lot about my mom's will because she's so on top of stuff like I still
01:02:40.000like I feel like I understand the probate process a lot more. So thank you so much. This is like
01:02:46.160the perfect service episode. I really love it. Oh, wonderful. Thank you for having me. I'm so
01:02:50.820excited to be here and I'm so excited I can clarify some of the stuff for people so that
01:02:55.000they don't have to figure it out the hard way like I did. I'd rather just tell you about it
01:02:59.580so you can do it more easily. Where can people find you on the internet if they want to find
01:03:03.400more of your stuff? Yes, I am at deadparentswhatnow.com. Very easy to remember. I write
01:03:09.860a weekly newsletter called The Columbarium, which is about the history of death and dying
01:03:14.560and practical advice related to that, and also jokes, because that's what I do. And you can get
01:03:19.580to that from my website if you want to sign up. It's free. I also am on lots of different social
01:03:24.380media at deadparentswhatnow. And the book is out. Wherever you buy books, My Parents Are Dead,
01:03:29.960What Now? A Panic-Free Guide to the Practicalities of Death. Amazing. It's on my coffee table right
01:03:34.860now, just so that people walking in will be like, oh, interesting. What's this? So your parents
01:03:39.420aren't dead but i do like it's a good conversation starter so absolutely yeah
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