Culture Study Podcast - WTF is Going On With That Clothing Brand

00:00:00.000 for me i came to understand what j crew was primarily through the aesthetic of the catalog

00:00:06.000 right and like a very particular aesthetic that was steady for a long time yeah and there have

00:00:13.860 been some deviations right um yes and so that's that's one component and i also think that there

00:00:21.200 are more brands than there have ever been and a lot of that has to do with like instagram brands

00:00:28.940 that are just like drop shipping stuff like it's just like a weird twee name and they just are all

00:00:35.120 selling the same things but they are doing it under different names yeah with different store

00:00:41.180 like digital storefronts and they're primarily advertising to you through instagram one thing

00:00:46.980 i often ask is like is this a brand like is this a real brand right and so even that idea because

00:00:53.540 it used to be if you saw a store in the mall it was a brand yeah if you got a catalog in the mail

00:00:58.560 it was a brand. Yeah. There's more of everything now. We are living in an oversaturated and it's

00:01:04.220 great. You know, like the, the breaking out of the mall has yielded more inclusivity in a lot

00:01:11.940 of ways, but it is also invited in a lot of shit. This is the culture study podcast and I'm 0.98

00:01:26.440 Anne Helen Peterson. And I'm Caroline Moss. And what do you do? I'm the host of GThinks

00:01:32.580 Just Bought It. It is a podcast slash shopping community helping people find what they need

00:01:37.560 in the shortest amount of time possible. So we came up with this idea. I don't know where I like

00:01:43.620 it. You know how sometimes ideas just like float into you and then you have to text someone

00:01:47.420 immediately. I really do. Yeah. So this one floated into me and I immediately texted Melody

00:01:52.660 and I was like what if we do a like what the fuck is going on with this brand and and then like have

00:01:59.160 you I think and you were automatically the person that I thought of like help help me and help us

00:02:05.240 explore what is going on with this brand and when I put out the call for like suggestions for brands

00:02:13.120 we got so many responses and I'm also super interested in how they clustered around a lot

00:02:21.180 of the same brands and I think we're going to get into this but what do you think why are people

00:02:27.040 befuddled by brands right now I assume I'm gonna I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume that your

00:02:32.620 listenership are people who are in our similar age range how dare you we are a millennial folk

00:02:42.260 right you have a millennial listenership I think also I'm a little brand blind I'm confronted with

00:02:49.280 brands every day of my life it's my work it's my life's work so i think i'm i honestly sometimes

00:02:55.160 pay too much attention and so i'm excited to sort of zoom out and get like a consumer

00:03:00.760 eyed view of of you know wtf is going on with these brands yeah yeah i think so i would just

00:03:10.380 say because i know that people in the comments will be like i'm a young gen x-er and i'm here

00:03:15.160 and yes we are the broad the blob of people in their mid-20s through early 50s I would say is

00:03:25.700 our prime listenership that doesn't mean there are people that are outside of that but yes and

00:03:30.580 that we and that a lot of us there are either brands that don't seem to mean the same thing

00:03:36.680 or be the same thing that they were when we first understood them as brands right yes I don't know

00:03:44.500 anyone who knows like how to shop like how to source how to find things as well as you do and

00:03:52.480 I know there are other people out there but you do it very publicly and in my feed so yeah what

00:03:57.620 do you know and how do you know it um I think like it is a little bit of you do what you love

00:04:04.260 and I am a shopper um and I think a lot of it is like you know equal parts community building

00:04:10.920 and equal parts being really good at both understanding the internet and being able

00:04:16.340 to tell when a brand is shit you know like I don't get scammed by internet Instagram brands

00:04:21.520 like it you have to wake up pretty early in the morning to fool me um so it's a little bit it's a 0.97

00:04:26.580 little bit of that sort of knowledge but then also this community building aspect of my business

00:04:30.900 which is that like instead of sort of shouting from the mountaintops of like what's the best

00:04:35.840 and what you should get, my space that I have built is sort of a place where you can go with

00:04:42.520 both requests for recommendations and recommendations of your own. And it becomes

00:04:47.260 more of a conversation rather than, you know, the wire cutter telling you what to get or an

00:04:51.940 influencer sort of modeling what they got. And I think through that process, through inviting

00:04:57.540 in community to make decisions about where I'm spending my money, where other people are spending

00:05:03.480 their money it has built I've seen trends I see what people actually like and what people are

00:05:09.380 buying um yeah yeah it you know and I think that that's sort of helped me gain confidence in the

00:05:17.440 way of like if I am going to recommend something just from myself what backs up those recommendations

00:05:22.720 is years of sort of uh community polling uh in in a way and and so it's a little bit um of a lot

00:05:32.500 of things that make this sort of like the sweet spot of online shopping and and product recommending

00:05:37.480 and you also know like when sales happen like you you know the sales cycles right in a way that

00:05:45.000 like you know how it's actually pretty easy to just google to know when like the next iphone

00:05:50.560 is coming out but i always am like oh i need a new iphone like and you get it like one month

00:05:56.380 before the next one comes out yeah which by the way like I literally did this year so like we're

00:06:02.420 not oh I can't I'm not always I'm not always like I literally like just wasn't thinking and in July

00:06:07.620 I was like okay it's time and then realized like the second I checked out I was like oh whoops but

00:06:13.280 I don't but I also am like not the I don't need like the newest I mean look I have an iPhone 15

00:06:19.060 I'm hardly like slumming it out here with with my iPhone and we have the same OS but like I'm

00:06:24.620 definitely like that about some things and not like that about others but yes with sales cycles

00:06:29.280 I mean that's the thing is like when it becomes your full-time job you are paying attention and

00:06:33.320 then all of a sudden I can see everything inside of a calendar year and everything starts to make

00:06:37.580 more sense like and that really became clear to me after doing this because I've been running

00:06:42.300 gthanks now for five years five years by the third year you're like I know exactly what they're gonna

00:06:48.840 do like I know exactly like when you should wait to buy this thing I know exactly when this is

00:06:53.420 going to go on sale that's a both like you know watching and do things get switched up yes do

00:06:58.460 brands sometimes surprise you yes of course but generally there are like holidays and spending

00:07:06.440 days and slow times of the year and big times of the year and themes and genres of what people are

00:07:12.040 buying when and when things go on sale and the best time to buy what and it's it's just kind of

00:07:17.020 it's like memorization and paying attention but it is it's not a surprise for me personally

00:07:23.200 my ideal would be like a closet with like 20 items that I adore that like I look at them and I

00:07:30.120 sparks joy every single time you can't even decide what to wear because you love them all so much

00:07:34.160 fit me perfectly they fit like this season perfectly like everything goes together and you

00:07:41.280 know we used to have that because people would make their clothes or have someone else make their

00:07:45.400 clothes yeah and and that would make it so that you actually did have clothes that like that you

00:07:50.620 loved and that fit you right unless you had handmaid notes but that's another story that's

00:07:54.200 right personal story and I I knew this but my dad reminded me of it more recently is this

00:07:59.960 my grandfather was a dressmaker in the garment district that was his entire career and he was

00:08:06.420 really really successful and that's what he did he like made clothing to for like the well-to-do

00:08:12.820 women of Manhattan and my dad was like you're kind of in the same business and I was like

00:08:17.020 kind of you are but like I mean I mean whatever business exists around that 100 years later

00:08:23.820 but like how funny is that it's like but like that's exactly it was like when you were really

00:08:28.800 rich when you had the means you literally went somewhere got measured and someone made your

00:08:34.620 dresses and you had multiple dresses and those were your dresses yeah and that was it and then

00:08:39.740 sometimes you went to like gimbals or whatever and now we are just you know the price of everything

00:08:48.640 is going up everything's being marketed to us everything is expensive then you have all of the

00:08:54.800 the other the fast fashion stuff that's like it's exactly this but half the cost that raises a red

00:09:00.000 flag but how much of a red flag and maybe you'll get lucky and maybe you did like it's just it's

00:09:04.180 kind of non-stop. The thing that I'm thinking about is that prices are going up, but what

00:09:09.940 they're getting closer to, especially with goods that are trying to more authentically price the

00:09:16.280 cost of labor to compensate more, to actually accommodate for how much it costs to actually

00:09:21.700 make items, is that they're nearing what it actually used to cost to buy a really good dress

00:09:26.840 or to make a really good dress. And so what we need to do as consumers is to figure out a way

00:09:32.200 to buy fewer things, but to buy the right things. Right. Which is hard because, I mean, it's,

00:09:39.460 yeah, it's really, it's really difficult. And not everyone is in the position to do that.

00:09:43.520 Yep. So we got, as you know, as we talked about before, we got so many questions and a lot of

00:09:50.820 them were about the same brands. And one of those brands was Madewell. So we're going to play two

00:09:55.460 of these questions back to back. The first one is from Melissa. What's going on with Madewell?

00:10:00.320 I'm thinking specifically here about the Alexa Chung partnership.

00:10:04.420 Are they just deciding officially that their target demographic is mid to late 30s?

00:10:09.020 Or are they making Alexa Chung relevant again?

00:10:11.900 What in the 2009 is happening?

00:10:14.760 And the second one is from Haley.

00:10:17.160 I'm wondering what happened to Madewell and why did it get so sad?

00:10:22.660 It really seems like it transformed from this place to get such great sweaters and fun clothes

00:10:28.440 to now really just having all of these neutrals that feel really lifeless. I'd love to learn how 1.00

00:10:36.020 this happened. It kind of seems like J.Crew recreated some of the same dynamics that

00:10:40.640 plagued the flagship brand in terms of designing themselves into irrelevance. And I'm just not

00:10:45.820 totally sure where I should shop these days as a young adult who doesn't want to wear neutrals

00:10:50.520 all the time, but also isn't looking to make patterns my whole personality.

00:10:55.120 okay first can you explain the alexa chung thing so um the alexa chung thing is that you know when

00:11:04.780 you have a brand like madewell that's been around for a really long time sometimes they bring on

00:11:10.460 like a celebrity in like a in like a creative director capacity um and that's kind of what

00:11:18.000 we're seeing with alexa chung and so alexa chung did some pieces that she put her name on that

00:11:24.280 Madewell's doing. They're a lot more expensive than your average Madewell piece. So they're

00:11:29.720 calling it MW by Alexa Chung. Um, and they are essentially like staple pieces. They're higher

00:11:38.200 in quality cause probably better fabric is being used. They are higher in price. Um, and the idea

00:11:45.200 is that you buy them and they're going to last you a bunch of seasons, if not forever, um, because

00:11:50.020 they're classic they never go out of style one of the big anchor pieces of this collection is a

00:11:55.580 blazer like an overcoat a suede overcoat yeah i'm looking at it right now yep that is about

00:12:01.680 eight hundred and fifty dollars and sold out uh pretty much almost immediately we're gonna see a

00:12:06.800 lot of like denim sure it's still the made well look yeah we're seeing a lot of blazers we're

00:12:11.920 seeing a lot of denim. But it's like, you know, styled to her liking her taste. She's modeling

00:12:20.580 all of the pieces. And it is a collection of about like 12, 14 pieces that can be kind of

00:12:30.220 worn like capsule or otherwise there's a denim dress in there. There's like some white cream

00:12:35.020 wide leg pants. Everything's very made well, but it is like in Alexa Chung style. I think

00:12:41.900 think it's working it seems to be selling very well um but it's so funny to me that this is like

00:12:47.080 a very I don't think of 2009 when I think of Alexa Chung and I'm wondering if you feel the same way

00:12:52.100 yeah I mean to me she's just one of those people that's like been around my entire adult life

00:12:57.840 almost yeah like like my fashion conscious not like out of college life it's just been like

00:13:04.840 there's Alexa Chung um I also think the pieces look very made well to me like yeah for sure they

00:13:11.360 don't they don't seem to if anything they seem to counter some of the comments from the second

00:13:16.600 listener in terms of like everything is beige and boring like there is a vibrant kelly green

00:13:24.020 maybe dark slightly darker than kelly green yep blouse yep um yeah so i think like to me this

00:13:32.120 looks very made well but i also like my thing with made well oh and you know what i just looked it up

00:13:37.340 and i didn't know this she did a collab with madewell in 2010 oh and she did another one

00:13:44.480 2011 so now she is back and i actually think this is very important to this question okay so yeah

00:13:50.480 tell me what what are you thinking here madewell is trying to grow up with us yeah and so if she

00:13:57.140 was the it girl in 2010 that's about 15 years ago now we're at the q4 of 2024 let's call it 15 years

00:14:04.900 ago. So she's 40. She was 25 when she did the first collab. And now she's 40. And Madewell is

00:14:13.680 basically saying, you know, we were we were your favorite brand when you were 25 or your favorite

00:14:19.860 brand when you're 40. And I think to some people that is going to be a little polarizing. I think

00:14:24.900 that's a little like, OK, like she was so big then. What are we doing here now? But I actually

00:14:32.480 think it's having a really nice effect on the brand yeah which is that like we are actually not

00:14:37.840 I mean look everything is done with intention right like everything a brand is doing is like

00:14:43.260 to communicate something to us and so what they are communicating to us is like

00:14:49.700 stylish at 40 classic tailored pieces investment you were once 25 you have money now you're 40

00:14:58.260 like you're going to spend a little bit more spend it with us you were our favorite girl then

00:15:03.840 you're our favorite girl now even though you're 15 years older I mean I think these are all of

00:15:08.180 the things that this Alexa Chung partnership is saying and I didn't even know she did one 15 years

00:15:14.800 ago but now that's the missing piece that I had it's like I knew what they were doing but now I'm

00:15:19.460 like okay they are literally hearkening back to like she was the hot young it girl and we did that

00:15:25.280 15 years ago and now she's back because we still think she's cool I even like I'm cool at any age

00:15:30.820 I'm looking at the cut of the dream they're called the Alexa dream jean and they are also like trying

00:15:37.460 to span this like their throwbacks in terms like so many of the jeans right now are like

00:15:43.140 re-embracing the wide leg and like yeah even flair but these are not too flair they're the

00:15:49.280 sort of jeans that someone who only bought made well skinny jeans which was me for like seven

00:15:54.840 years right totally I can look at this cut and I can be like okay I can do that yeah whereas the

00:16:03.100 stuff that I see is like Jenko's yeah no for somebody who wore only jeans that were like

00:16:09.780 branded like the cigarette yes like like like this feels comfortable for me yeah that that's

00:16:17.060 who they they are not going after Gen Z you don't think so not at all anymore I I don't I think if

00:16:22.880 they get some gen z runoff that's great yeah but i think made well i think an 800 an 850

00:16:30.140 suede coat yeah friend made well says you have arrived if this is your style you're gonna buy

00:16:38.020 this once and we're gonna see you in this for multiple seasons yeah and i'm not trying to sell

00:16:44.100 you on a trend are they chasing like the saison market i mean they're yes they are because

00:16:51.420 everything that made well has been doing in the last year and a half is actually very kite um k-h-a-i-t-e

00:16:59.980 that brand um which is similar to saison and you know that and like there's some fairity mixed

00:17:06.360 mixed in there how yeah so how do we describe that aesthetic if people don't know these brands

00:17:10.700 because one of the things that this podcast is trying to address is like that you don't

00:17:14.300 a lot of us don't know where we should be shopping and don't know what the brands are so

00:17:17.900 what how would you describe it how would i describe like i would describe kite as like a

00:17:23.580 little bit like edgy professional um like cool girl edgy professional yeah um and very expensive

00:17:31.140 and saison is like fancy french sweater and trousers yeah saison is fancy french sweater

00:17:37.820 i mean look you can find everything at saison and kite in between in an h&m and in a madewell

00:17:44.660 but it depends on quality and how long you want to wear these things for yeah yeah the other thing

00:17:50.040 too about the kites and the saisons and the fairity is they're not very size inclusive so

00:17:56.840 we have that to talk you know yeah like they are they are um snobby in terms of who they think

00:18:04.060 should be wearing their brand and definitely but you know all of they all follow the same trends

00:18:09.780 that we see across and when i say trends i'm talking about trends that are geared towards

00:18:15.520 millennials and gen x i'm not talking about like butterfly tube tops and baggy jeans because that's

00:18:21.680 what 18 year olds are being told to like 18 year olds look like i realized i'm afraid of the high

00:18:26.800 schoolers i see on the street because they look like what high schoolers looked like when nobody

00:18:31.900 looked like what high schoolers looked like when i was 12 oh when you were 12 so you know what i

00:18:35.960 me they look like the fanciest girls when i was in high school right like yeah they all just look

00:18:40.920 like girls that like got on the bus and i was like i'm afraid i am afraid of you because you're

00:18:44.640 slightly younger than me so like i see how that would work yeah yeah and so when i'm talking when

00:18:50.040 we're talking about kate uh sorry kite and um is it kite now i'm thinking about it and i'm like it

00:18:54.640 might be kate this is they're snobby you don't even know how to say that you don't even know

00:19:00.760 melody don't just make sure i oh hold on i've never heard of this brand in my life so i can't

00:19:06.740 help you i'm like as i'm saying it i'm like no it is kate it's kate i knew that i knew that and i

00:19:13.560 looked i looked at it phonetically and we're gonna include this because it's very relatable

00:19:17.620 you should honestly it's my job and i don't i'm not saying it out loud to anybody i know um

00:19:23.180 typing it in an instagram typing it in exactly so i think when you look at kate and you look at

00:19:29.200 Faraday and you look at Saison it is you're still seeing all the trends that you see across

00:19:34.280 the fast fashion trends like on a mango on an H&M yeah to some extent J.Crew and a Madewell like

00:19:40.820 the vest tank tops um that like button out at the uh belly button like you're gonna see wide

00:19:47.640 like pants like everyone's doing a version of this those three brands are probably the top

00:19:51.900 of the ready to wear like everyday stuff that you can order online and look very chic in like one of

00:20:02.340 the big cities of the world yeah um like you would wear these clothes to paris to new york to london

00:20:07.140 and you'd feel like very chic very stylish and the difference and i learned this when i studied

00:20:13.080 abroad we used to like make fun of the professors in our um little study abroad thing who were

00:20:18.520 french who like had two outfits and it's like well they had two outfits because they were incredibly

00:20:23.020 tailored and like beautiful clothing right and also they probably had two outfits because they

00:20:27.600 were like i know what i like to wear and i'm and thank god not 22 anymore yeah exactly i have two

00:20:35.640 outfits and most of them are like sweatpants based i mean it's i think also a lot of these

00:20:41.700 brands are banking on us not being over consumers i think honestly our and i'm looking at made well

00:20:51.880 right now and very recently post the alexa chung launch made well launched what they're calling

00:20:58.620 the quality hub their tagline is made to last meant to matter which is another kind of green

00:21:06.680 washing of fast fashion, which is like, we're going to use better quality products. You're

00:21:12.280 going to pay more and you're going to feel good about it. And that's great. And that's fine. But

00:21:16.360 that is a direct response to listening to their consumer who is our age, you know, a 30 something,

00:21:23.720 a 40 something, a late 20 something saying like, I am not shopping as much, but I'm happy to pay

00:21:29.960 more if it means I can just buy it well the first time and be done with it. Okay, so let's talk a

00:21:37.580 little bit about J.Crew. This question comes from Anthony. What's going on with J.Crew?

00:21:42.540 They brought back the seasonal catalog. What does this mean? Is this just nostalgia for a seemingly

00:21:48.180 simpler time or a marketing gimmick in the hopes of capitalizing on millennials growing disdain

00:21:53.460 for technology or both and does gen z even wear j crew okay what are your thoughts on the catalog

00:22:00.480 i love j crew and madewell are the same company yes yes um i love catalogs and if if they're

00:22:07.480 playing into my love of nostalgia play on i mean really i kind of love it um the j crew cover

00:22:15.180 instagram account that like it's like old j crew covers it's all the the the prime j crew nantucket

00:22:23.200 aesthetic um yeah so what do you think is going on here j crew is like an all-american brand

00:22:32.720 in the way that uh retail defines all-american right i mean it is like a staple it's like a

00:22:42.420 ralph lauren yeah like it's like when you think of like your typical american wearing typical

00:22:49.380 american clothing you're thinking of someone wearing who's middle class who's middle class

00:22:54.520 yeah yeah i think you're thinking of somebody wearing like a crisp you know oxford shirt like

00:23:02.340 nice jeans a loafer um and i think that nostalgia is having a moment i think that millennials and

00:23:11.320 this is a little off tangent but it does it does kind of serve purpose here do you ever are you

00:23:17.600 have part of any of those groups where I think it's Katie Natopoulos who gets me into all these

00:23:22.200 groups because I think because she felt yeah weird Facebook groups because I think she's on them so

00:23:27.020 like Facebook's like hey your friend Katie loves this and it's always like the fabulous 50s and

00:23:31.660 it's like people who were born in the 1950s and like everyone is always posting it's like all

00:23:36.780 these people who are like 70 years old on Facebook posting like you know the 1950s like were amazing

00:23:42.520 like nothing was better and like kids really respected their own and i think what is happening

00:23:47.460 in what we're seeing in the j crew like nostalgia kickback is i think millennials and gen x are like

00:23:53.700 starting to enter the years of like you know kids really didn't know what it was like to like go to

00:24:01.040 camp during the summer and like just go home and like they didn't know what it was like to

00:24:06.600 save up all your babysitting money yes and like one to buy a no but like I'm specifically a ribbed

00:24:15.820 collared shirt from J.Crew that was sage green that I called up J.Crew on the landline to place

00:24:25.180 my order yeah with my babysitting money yes and they think that that we are starting to

00:24:31.780 enter into a year into years where we're like the 90s were amazing um the early 2000s were

00:24:38.940 incredible and gen z is like the 90s were amazing you guys didn't realize how great the 90s were

00:24:44.580 we're like actually they were kind of fucked up but also yeah i can there is some some 90s 0.56

00:24:50.580 i think j crew is out here too you know looking at all of this shit that is all over the internet 0.99

00:24:57.420 these drop shipping companies cheap crappy people being exploited for the fast fashion stuff and 0.92

00:25:03.860 saying like you know how can we rebrand or at least remind people of like what this brand is

00:25:10.920 we are like an anchor of this country you know like we meant something to you when you were young

00:25:16.080 and you were just learning what your style was and like whether that came to you in a in a um

00:25:21.800 in a i'm i'm losing the word but like a not like malicious way like i mean like j crew was like

00:25:29.260 foisted upon us like i i felt like i wanted j crew because all the rich girls had j crew

00:25:36.020 yeah um and now i look back on it fondly but at the time i was like actually i feel like pretty

00:25:40.560 excluded and i hate this um but i want it so badly but like i think it's really trying to like tap

00:25:46.680 into like remember the old days like we do like look at these kids doing this crazy stuff like

00:25:52.320 like wink wink like we have it good I think it's working I think people are really really

00:25:57.760 uh like buying into this like simpler times yeah like brand reminder okay the next brand we got

00:26:05.520 so many submissions for and I actually know so little about it so I'm very interested to hear

00:26:10.980 your thoughts it comes this question comes from Rachel I have a question about the company Quince

00:26:16.520 I believe they got their start in women's clothing.

00:26:20.080 So I went to check back in on their website and they are now not only offering women's

00:26:25.840 clothing, they're offering children's clothing.

00:26:28.340 They're offering home goods.

00:26:30.260 I mean, rugs, bedding, plates, glasses, luggage.

00:26:36.480 They have Christmas trees.

00:26:38.180 It is bananas.

00:26:39.980 And so I am wondering what the heck is going on with this company.

00:26:44.100 I'm automatically skeptical of anyone who says they are doing ethical, sustainable cashmere for under $100 because I just don't think that's possible.

00:26:53.840 At best, it feels very greenwashed.

00:26:58.260 And at worst, it feels incredibly sketchy. 0.61

00:27:02.480 Okay, so I went on the homepage to look at how it works.

00:27:06.580 And they have all of these convincing diagrams about how they have cut out sourcing agents, tariffs, warehouse, brand and store.

00:27:15.940 So the quince supply chain just goes factory to you.

00:27:19.480 And that's how they keep prices so low.

00:27:21.600 I feel like there is something that is lost in this narrative.

00:27:24.740 But I would love to hear your perspective.

00:27:26.360 OK, I actually don't know.

00:27:28.080 And I don't feel like I can definitively say either way.

00:27:31.960 okay no but this is fascinating because i think that it speaks to something we've talked about

00:27:36.340 before which is that we if it's cheap we are dubious of it now right of course yeah yes i

00:27:43.580 like quints i mean look i like the quality of their clothing what are they known for uh uh

00:27:49.100 inexpensive cashmere sweaters oh and what they do on their website is they'll show you like what

00:27:54.200 the traditional retail of something like this j crew for example would charge 128 a made well

00:27:59.880 would charge probably like 198 or like 108 and quince you get it for 50 dollars yeah i don't

00:28:05.600 think quince is like a scam but i do think that corporate greenwashing is probably a bigger issue

00:28:11.780 than we know and we probably won't know for a while yeah yeah but i think like i guess is the

00:28:17.960 question are we sure this is like legit um i think it's like as far as like these companies that say

00:28:26.000 they do things i think this is actually the most legit there is yeah why are they getting into

00:28:32.600 home goods is it just like all the company because like anthropology does this now like

00:28:36.440 even if like a gardening line like yeah i think when you have capital yeah manufacturing things

00:28:41.780 is easy and i think that like why not dip your toe into every pond possible we have homes you

00:28:49.040 know like we're buying home goods why wouldn't they want a piece of that pie and i think also 0.68

00:28:54.020 that fact the amount of money that like millennials and gen x are spending on home decor skyrocketed

00:29:01.540 during the pandemic we started spending a ton of time at home yeah and it's like if you weren't

00:29:05.380 getting into home goods like you were literally missing a piece of the pie and i imagine that

00:29:09.940 anyone like at the top of any of these companies whose concern is the bottom line is going into

00:29:14.400 these meetings being like you have to figure out a way to bring home goods because like here's what

00:29:17.620 we're seeing all these people with money they're buying decor did they ever have sales or is it

00:29:22.920 always just like the standard fifty dollars they will sometimes do um so actually what's

00:29:27.920 interesting about quints is that they're really big in the influencer space um and they rarely do

00:29:32.380 codes so often what influencers will do is like ads for awareness sort of like bringing them to

00:29:38.620 their audience and letting people know that they exist um full disclosure we did like an awareness

00:29:44.640 ad in one of my newsletters because i really like quints and spend my own money on quints

00:29:49.480 but they rarely rarely ever do codes i think because their idea is like this is what a sweater

00:29:55.240 costs and that's what we're gonna charge you i think that's part of the appeal right because

00:30:00.160 like with j crew you're like oh if i don't wait for the sale then i'm just getting suckered but

00:30:04.700 like i want to buy it right now and i don't want to wait until that 40 off coupon comes which it

00:30:10.120 will every month a thousand percent i mean look my entire job is sales yeah and codes and discounts

00:30:17.420 and so if all of that went out the door I'd have to figure out a new career but I do really

00:30:21.140 appreciate that like I mean and that's why I'm saying is like I say this with a grain of salt

00:30:26.040 because I I wouldn't be surprised because I think we're now people living in a you know

00:30:31.420 cynical people in a cynical world it's like in five years like will this whole entire like

00:30:36.060 greenwashing thing become unmasked but I think right now as it's presented I like this idea of

00:30:41.080 being like this is what it costs for the people making it to get a fair wage for us to get a fair

00:30:46.540 wage and for you to pay a fair price and therefore we're not going to do sales because we don't need

00:30:51.340 to like gimmick you into buying anything yeah and if we were all doing that that's what we chose to

00:30:55.500 do with our free market i think that that would be a really fun shopping experience unfortunately

00:30:59.760 like capitalism doesn't usually thrive in those conditions and so i do wonder psychology doesn't

00:31:05.260 work quite that way exactly psychology doesn't work that way that's right and i mean like i think

00:31:09.720 we all like know better but no one can like resist the sale and and but i also can't resist a 50

00:31:15.600 cashmere sweater so I guess it depends on what they're selling you know right um but it also it

00:31:21.300 really kind of plays into why we buy things and the psychology of like what brands mean to us and

00:31:26.560 why we think it's important to wear you know a a Kate suede bag you know versus one from J.Crew

00:31:33.380 and someone's you know someone's J.Crew is someone's H&M do you know what I mean it's like

00:31:40.120 we all really feel that the things that we buy reveal a lot about who we are for better or for

00:31:46.440 worse. And it's probably true to an extent. And even though we know better, we still find

00:31:52.200 ourselves in that same cycle. It's very hard to break. Okay. So our next two questions aren't

00:31:57.800 about a specific brand, but they're more about like a vibe that applies to a lot of brands.

00:32:02.740 I love a vibe. First, let's hear from Anna. What's up with the clothing brands you see on

00:32:07.700 Insta that ostensibly sell clothing. But when you get to their website, you get this eerie feeling

00:32:13.540 of religion or something else in the background. For example, I'll be unfit. And then Kate submitted

00:32:19.480 this question. What's up with Christian-coded fast fashion? I'm 31 and remember it feeling 0.94

00:32:25.240 like a scandal to my agnostic friend group when we realized the Forever 21 bags had Bible verses

00:32:30.480 on them. I also get bad vibes from Altered State, which I think the Rush Talk girls wear. 0.99

00:32:36.320 It doesn't seem like it's really particularly modest stuff, so what makes it Christian? 0.98

00:32:40.360 Are there more Christian brands with varying levels of explicit marketing that I'm too old or unfashionable to know about?

00:32:46.460 For the brands that sell themselves as more sustainable, but still vintage and feminine, like Christy Dawn, where's the line between Tradwife and Cottagecore?

00:32:54.480 I think we used to understand brands more because you went into the store.

00:32:58.500 You knew what music was playing when you went into the store, right?

00:33:01.300 I understood Abercrombie not only because of the catalog, but the feeling that I got when I walked into that store and was greeted by the people that they paid as model representatives, not as salespeople.

00:33:16.160 And like the stink that would just stay with you after you left.

00:33:20.940 And I think, you know, I've been talking to people about Altered State because it does figure really heavily in Rush Talk. 0.61

00:33:26.860 A lot of the girls were wearing Altered State.

00:33:28.560 and I asked like my Instagram followers like what is going on with this brand and a lot of 0.74

00:33:33.400 moms of teens and tweens told me that it is the store that you can go to and get like a dress to

00:33:42.300 fit or a shirt to fit or pants to fit like for like if you need it right now if you don't want

00:33:48.740 to deal with online hassle like it is an actual mall store with stuff that teens want so that is

00:33:54.000 part of its popularity and i think that people especially in the south like that undertone of

00:34:00.420 religiosity is everywhere to some extent so it is not seem as dramatic if as it does to people who

00:34:09.920 are not in spaces where that is as ubiquitous as it is i think that's fair that actually softens

00:34:16.580 my approach to this which is that i think it's so weird but it's super weird that's because i'm not

00:34:22.860 religious and i live in new york like i mean like but like i don't think it's weird that they're

00:34:26.900 like j crew like get on your rowboat come to nantucket this is my golden retriever and we're

00:34:32.580 driving in this jeep like it's all branding like you know what i mean like it's an it's you're

00:34:36.920 painting a picture of a thing that you feel resonates with you if your faith is a large

00:34:41.880 part of who you are and the world that you've created for yourself it makes sense that a brand

00:34:46.360 would come in and capitalize on that in order to get your dollar i think that that's like that that

00:34:51.160 just like makes i think we kind of think too deeply into it like oh my god what is going on

00:34:55.500 with this brand what's going on with this brand is that they're looking at the demographic of

00:34:58.880 who's shopping at their store and they're realizing oh it's like from very like you know

00:35:02.900 christian areas yeah or they're like also maybe the founder like the founder is christian and

00:35:10.060 wants to like be like this is part of like how i manifest my christianity this is part of christian

00:35:15.200 culture right like culture that is infused with christianity but is not necessarily like

00:35:20.780 this is not like the christian supply store that's selling bibles right no no no it's like

00:35:26.540 christian the same way that creed is christian like and not when people are like oh it's not

00:35:31.300 modest i'm like yeah of course it's not modest they want like the popular girls who go to young

00:35:35.420 life to wear this stuff i will say that um altered state does a few things really great they're very

00:35:41.880 size inclusive yeah yeah also this is this is also they have the on their site like a who we are

00:35:49.240 they say that every monday when you shop with altered state on mondays 10 of net proceeds

00:35:57.500 in all stores and online which every monday for 52 mondays a year 10 of your net proceeds is

00:36:04.820 actually kind of a big chunk yeah remember though that's a corporation and that's a write-off for

00:36:11.260 them um goes directly to non-profits across the country each store chooses a non-profit from their

00:36:18.300 community based on a seasonal theme but i'm like oh great but then they write such as education or

00:36:25.200 children's health i'm like what season is children's health i need to know um associates

00:36:32.760 are encouraged to get involved with their mission monday nonprofits through volunteering every

00:36:36.540 employee is given four hours of paid volunteer time each month paid volunteer time is not a thing

00:36:43.080 uh thank you for joining our movement to stand out for good okay I appreciate

00:36:49.460 what I think they think they're saying there yeah that is word salad and not a ton of it

00:36:56.780 makes sense it that to me is a red flag uh-huh for you're getting paid to volunteer buddy I have

00:37:04.980 a news for you but you know I think like not mentioned like if that's the thing that like

00:37:10.340 makes you feel good about shopping there like I think that's when as the consumer you want to like

00:37:15.460 ask more questions yeah like a seasonal charity like children's health yeah I have questions um

00:37:23.400 but all of this stuff is written into a brand no pun intended bible right of like how people

00:37:31.540 shop and like how they feel good about shopping how maybe some people's relationship to fast

00:37:40.240 fashion um changes when they hear about like the good yeah you know that the fast fashion company

00:37:47.600 is doing and like i think all these are things you want to put into consideration more than

00:37:51.460 anything though these brands are replacing a forever 21 vibe and not like a j crew vibe i

00:37:59.600 think you skew a lot younger yeah yeah for sure um okay what about albion fit i don't know about

00:38:07.600 i'll be oh my gosh so it is all you have to tell me all over my instagram and i'm like okay and

00:38:13.300 that we should talk about that because it's nowhere on mine and i think it's because it is a

00:38:17.920 very west coast coated brand in a lot of way not well good west coated brand and they are from

00:38:24.260 salt lake city okay and there is an incredibly elaborate about us on the page it was started

00:38:30.080 in salt lake city the the founders uh her this is i'm mentioning this because it's very much part

00:38:36.900 of their origin story is that she is the child of a dad who is white from america and then a mom

00:38:44.620 from guatemala and so a lot of like they like they went and moved to guatemala her and her husband

00:38:49.600 and like um spent time there so that like is part of the beach influence like it reminds me in some

00:38:55.920 ways of somersault in terms of like somersault's desire they told me this once because i was like

00:39:01.960 going to profile them as like the Instagram swimsuit um their desire is to be everything

00:39:07.660 that you pack in your weekend bag for a beach vacation that they wanted to be all of those

00:39:14.020 things okay so like the cover-up of course and the swimsuit but then also like what you wear

00:39:21.100 in the plane to get there so slightly fancy joggers like that sort of aesthetic that seems

00:39:27.360 so stressful to have it all come from the same place can I tell you what I'm thinking when I

00:39:32.180 look at their store yeah okay do you ever think like sometimes you see I get stuck in this all

00:39:38.660 the time like oh these clothes are amazing and then I'm like or is the model just thin yes all

00:39:45.420 the time more than any other brand we talked about today I am on this site being like is this cute

00:39:53.040 or am I looking at a very thin woman wearing clothes and I think part of the way that they

00:39:58.400 catch people is that they actually these are like pretty unique swim designs you see a lot more of

00:40:05.080 them now I think in part because Albion's popularity and they some of them are interestingly

00:40:11.040 modest and I think that's why people get like a Christian vibe it is not clear like there's

00:40:15.940 nothing explicit on the site about whether they are LDS or not but there are a lot of things that 0.96

00:40:21.860 have sleeves there are things that have like uh this swimsuit that i have from them it's the only

00:40:26.400 thing i have from them but it's a it's a super high-waisted bottom yep and then a top that

00:40:31.840 essentially is like a sports bra um so it's like a one piece that is like slightly more comfortable

00:40:38.020 if anything um or like a two-piece that it feels like a one piece but it's more comfortable

00:40:43.280 yeah and you can go to the bathroom more easily in it yeah and even though one of the co-founders

00:40:48.320 is half guatemalan like you look at the founding page and you look at almost all these 0.90

00:40:51.820 models and like it's just like whiteness all the way down and I think that that is part of this

00:40:56.940 vibe that people sometimes think of like is this Christian like is this culty is this a real thing

00:41:02.780 like what's going on and then also like you said the ideal femininity going on with like the thin

00:41:08.600 bodies everyone has long hair like that sort of thing yeah interesting it's so funny that I've

00:41:14.920 never heard of this brand right right that's yeah so I started getting swimsuit ads for them and

00:41:21.240 then once you click once you know in the oh yeah well now that I've googled it I'm sure it's coming

00:41:25.940 it's just yeah it's really interesting to me this reads as really I can't get a sense of like

00:41:34.180 what they are making you know when when you tell me you want to own every outfit for every part

00:41:41.340 of my trip what I hear is you're not really focused on anything yeah yeah no I think swimsuits is

00:41:46.940 their major thing and then they've kind of branched out into these other things and I bought a couple

00:41:53.020 of those things to see what they were like I think everything was on sale yeah and everything felt

00:41:58.480 like a windbreaker that fabric you know like yeah like it um which is great because it doesn't

00:42:07.060 wrinkle which is part of like their their deal but it's very different than say something like

00:42:12.140 I'm blanking on joggers like very different from something like Viore which is actually

00:42:18.220 comfortable and that's how like Viore's success is like we make you feel amazing in your pants

00:42:24.620 right but this is different but yeah I think that that's what's going on with the the vaguely

00:42:31.380 Christian part interesting we have to get to this last question because it's Melody's favorite

00:42:36.920 question. And I know it's also one that you want to talk about. So this gives us both a brand and

00:42:43.300 a philosophical question to unpack. It's from Dana. Carhartt, the brand. What is this weird

00:42:50.420 political spectrum, expansive brand beloved by queers and rural farmers alike? How are they what 0.99

00:42:58.880 they are? I live in Pennsylvania near the largest indoor agricultural conference center in the

00:43:05.160 country. Every January, there's an indoor ag show. And last year, everyone was wearing

00:43:11.120 Carhartt. From moms in Trump hats to farmers of all ages to the local high school theater kids,

00:43:21.320 I was baffled because I associated it with a more skier type and perhaps more big picture.

00:43:29.380 how are we socially declaring private identities with our brand choices and then what happens when

00:43:36.360 those brands declare multiple competing identities so first of all i'm super interested that this

00:43:42.340 person thought that carhartt was a ski brand because to me and this is very much like going to

00:43:48.960 the origins of the brand like it is an ag brand like they make ag clothes and the hot farm guys

00:43:55.900 when I was in high school and then in college like had Carhartts and like yeah my ex-boyfriend

00:44:01.020 would be like you don't wash Carhartts you put them in the stream and then you let them dry over

00:44:07.660 a fire that is the aesthetic I wear Carhartt overalls to garden all the time they're filthy

00:44:13.040 I love them they are like incredibly especially like any of the pants which they are all

00:44:19.940 like reinforced. So they're double sided. They have like little things that make it so they

00:44:25.880 don't wear out like they're made to actually last and they they work. I have a pair of Carhartts

00:44:33.760 that I've had since I was 18. Nice. That's what they are. But then the hats in particular and

00:44:39.820 then also like the look of the Carhartt jacket in it which is a very distinctive like dark mustard

00:44:45.660 color I think that is part of a larger queer aesthetic that also intersects with like wearing

00:44:52.280 flannel shirts so if you're like very into wearing flannel like the next step if you're looking you're 0.86

00:44:58.060 like oh you know what looks good with this this Carhartt jacket which they I don't maybe I can't

00:45:03.600 I can't separate my personal taste of like what looks hot from like growing up in Idaho like it's

00:45:10.020 impossible for me totally yeah what do you feel like as an like an urban person you know it's

00:45:16.000 funny I'm so like unfamiliar like Carhartt to me is like tractor farming yeah like outdoors

00:45:25.440 cutting wood things I've never done including go outside um and utilitarian yeah like clothes that

00:45:34.380 serve a purpose clothes that actually really get worn yeah you know versus clothes that you

00:45:40.080 quote-unquote wear but are not getting worn right right and I also would guess I'm probably not in 0.99

00:45:49.540 the right spaces aka outside of my apartment to see the queer co-op of Carhartt you've seen the 0.87

00:45:57.420 hats though in brooklyn yeah like stocking hats yeah yes but then you know you have this divide

00:46:04.160 of wearing and being worn yes you know and i think that that's really interesting i wonder if it

00:46:12.100 comes from you know carhartt is like over 100 years old yeah it's probably like one of our

00:46:19.360 longest most successful American brands right yeah I like the idea of it being co-opted by a

00:46:30.220 group who probably didn't feel like it was made for yeah who probably didn't feel like it was made

00:46:36.260 for them yep but like as a city person to me if you're wearing Carhartt in a city regardless of

00:46:47.240 how you identify you are trying to say something because you are not farming yeah in the way that

00:46:53.760 these clothes were meant to be farmed in but you've chosen to wear carhartt so you are making

00:46:58.400 like a huge statement well it's kind of like i mean and i used to do this like when i this is a

00:47:04.440 lot of like outdoor wear that is co-opted as fashion as part of identity right like there is

00:47:09.980 utility there like uh chaco sandals are rafting sandals they were developed because without velcro

00:47:18.000 they stay on your feet in a way that like tevas do not right yeah and they have support they have

00:47:24.500 arch support so you can walk longer distances so they're versatile and they last a really long time

00:47:28.720 but also i would never wear them in new york like i would feel embarrassed to wear them in new york

00:47:33.580 like they were so western coded to me but that was before that was before tevas like came back

00:47:38.720 into fashion and like they came back into fashion and Birkenstocks too yes and you know the big

00:47:44.520 thing for us growing up for me was North Face and Nalgene oh 100 hiking brands Everest you know I

00:47:54.060 was going to math I was going to gym class and barely but everyone had a Nalgene everyone wore

00:48:01.580 a North Face but like beyond like you know anything that you wear could be a fashion statement

00:48:08.260 I think it is the intersection that this person's noticing of the queer culture that is actually the most interesting part.

00:48:16.680 Right. 1.00

00:48:16.820 And I can't speak to that.

00:48:18.160 But but I also just really like the idea of like when something that belonged somewhere in a kind of silo for a really, really long time breaks out.

00:48:31.720 Yep.

00:48:32.320 And kind of takes on a new identity through who's wearing it.

00:48:36.260 I think that's always really interesting.

00:48:37.680 and ultimately really good for all of us as a brand like i don't know about the specific

00:48:43.720 political leanings of the the people who are in charge now but like they are not doubling down

00:48:49.140 on like we're white supremacists like if you look at the website like there are many different races

00:48:53.940 represented i would think it would be interesting if like they had you know the people modeling 1.00

00:48:59.080 things if they had like more butch women doing it because instead of like there are very femme 1.00

00:49:03.880 women who are modeling all of these clothes which is not representative of like the people who wear 0.94

00:49:09.880 these clothes who wear these clothes yeah and i do wonder if it's like not so much about the brand

00:49:15.820 as like you know who told you you couldn't wear this brand yeah it wasn't the brand you know

00:49:22.000 who bullied you while wearing while they were wearing this brand kind of thing i kind of love

00:49:27.380 it look who told me i should carry around a nalgene in high school i barely drink water

00:49:33.380 it has utility it has a modicum of utility it does seem to be part of you know like stanley's

00:49:39.440 rebranding to like oh there's like such a market here for our very useful product like i think

00:49:46.400 that that is part of what carhartt is doing and the same way that like a company like tractor

00:49:51.020 supply yeah is like catering to people who do more than just like buy soil you know what i mean like

00:50:01.020 it's just there there's this understanding I think now that if you are a brand like you should if you

00:50:06.460 have your niche but then you should expand outside your niche as well I wonder if the urban version

00:50:12.760 of the Carhartt phenomenon is like Abercrombie coming back and being more size inclusive and

00:50:18.140 like me buying jeans from Abercrombie yeah after like literally being driven to therapy the other

00:50:23.180 thing I'll say about about um Carhartt is it is pretty size inclusive that's nice yeah and in part

00:50:30.600 because at least with like they're like you can buy a lot of their stuff is effectively unisex

00:50:37.100 um and you can also buy like different things are in larger sizes as well i mean size of inclusivity

00:50:45.420 is like the least any brand could do so i always am happy when i hear that yeah um actually someone

00:50:52.040 in the g thanks group a few months ago probably as they were getting into gardening season so

00:50:58.500 maybe March or April wanted like a good pair of overalls and and for you know utilitarian purposes

00:51:05.240 and a lot of people were like go check the thrift for anything Carhartt yeah um but the thing about

00:51:13.920 checking the thrift for Carhartt now is that it's like getting picked up by resellers like so

00:51:17.820 quickly which is fine I have no problem with reselling culture but but it is funny that like

00:51:23.180 you can you can see brands kind of go in and out of the zeitgeist based on like what you can

00:51:29.020 actually find at the thrift store but carhartt was ultimately everyone was like if they're truly

00:51:33.380 doing some gardening if they're going to be on their knees like in the dirt like rough and tumble

00:51:38.820 carhartt is the answer i think as a brand that's really all you can ask for if like if you say you

00:51:43.300 do one thing and you do it well and you actually do it well i mean no wonder you've been around for

00:51:48.000 130 years i will post a picture of my carhartt my filthy carhartt overall it's like they still

00:51:53.120 look filthy after you watch them that's so cool i love them i'm really now i feel like i want to

00:51:57.580 like kind of get my algorithm moving into the car heart into car heart culture i gotta i gotta

00:52:03.140 fidget with my algorithm a little bit i will tell you some brands to click on from instagram please

00:52:08.420 i'm sure i'll be on fit is going to be everywhere i'm like i've never heard of it and i'm gonna i'm

00:52:13.360 about to get like a text that's like hey girl you want 15 off and i'll be like oh sure maybe

00:52:18.960 melody did we cover everything yeah i just wanted to say my like primary association with carhartt

00:52:26.560 is that that those overalls are what you wear to chief's tailgates oh yeah well that's the other

00:52:32.220 thing they're incredible so you can also get them insulated because again they have utility

00:52:36.480 so they can be so good and warm for that's so fun yeah um melody have you heard of albion foot

00:52:45.440 not until this question oh my not until you get that 15 off getting texted to you as we speak

00:52:53.740 the swimsuits are cute yeah um but i i wouldn't recommend the windbreaker pants no i don't want

00:53:01.260 to like i don't want people to hear me come in yeah that's the aesthetic

00:53:06.840 caroline this has been such a pleasure i like literally we could talk for another two hours

00:53:14.460 just being like well this brand what do you think about this uh like we could do another 40 solid 45

00:53:20.580 on Abercrombie we really could where can people find you on the internet if they want to hear more

00:53:25.280 from you find me on gthanks.substack.com that will kind of give you the big overview of where I am if

00:53:32.480 you want to go straight to Instagram it's gthanks just bought it pod the longest Instagram name in

00:53:38.460 existence i didn't think about that uh but it's g thanks just bought it pod amazing thanks so much

00:53:44.860 this has been a pleasure for having me it was so fun okay for today's ask ann anything we are going

00:53:50.780 to pivot from shopping stuff to not shopping for stuff so if you're not a paid subscriber and you're

00:53:57.760 feeling anxious about the impending pile of stuff that you and your family are about to receive for

00:54:03.420 the holidays, head on over to culturestudypod.substack.com to hear our takes on combating

00:54:10.580 holiday stuff.

00:54:14.780 Thanks for listening to the Culture Study Podcast.

00:54:17.120 Be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts because we have so many great episodes

00:54:21.360 in the works and I promise that you do not want to miss any of them.

00:54:25.400 Right now we're gearing up to record episodes on kids' toys, anything and everything about

00:54:30.100 kids' toys.

00:54:30.540 like why are kids toys the way that they are like what's a good kids toy like you can take

00:54:36.640 this any direction you want also what's going on with skiing right now and like whether or not it's

00:54:43.380 actually accessible or affordable and what's going on with ski towns and then we're doing another

00:54:48.480 episode that is on the rise of therapy speak and we're also thinking about like you know therapy

00:54:54.740 speak on how it travels on social media all of that sort of thing so if you have questions about

00:55:00.020 therapy speak we have the perfect people to co-host for this one send us your questions but

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00:56:01.820 You can find me on Instagram at Anne Helen Peterson, Melody at Melodious47, and the show at Culture Study Pod.

Culture Study Podcast - December 04, 2024

WTF is Going On With That Clothing Brand

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