Diabolical Lies - June 14, 2026


How Reality TV Makes Us All Republicans


Episode Stats


Length

16 minutes

Words per minute

188.09

Word count

3,108

Sentence count

188


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
00:00:00.580 Okay, today's episode of Diabolical Lies is brought to you by Spencer Pratt, Omarosa
00:00:06.500 Newman, Sean Spicer, Jim Bob Duggar, Steve Bannon, Donald Trump, and all of the reality
00:00:11.760 show producers who keep this nation chugging steadily along towards the inevitable late
00:00:16.220 stage brain rot doomscroll apocalypse that awaits us once we hit Keeping Up With The
00:00:20.200 Kardashians season 50.
00:00:22.400 So Katie, last episode you Epsteined Sheryl Sandberg, which is my way of saying you took
00:00:29.320 us on a profoundly detailed and well-researched romp through the years to help us understand
00:00:35.240 the historical context for the socioeconomic and cultural phenomenon known as the Girlboss
00:00:39.740 era.
00:00:40.300 And today we're talking about Dancing with the Stars and Spencer Press mayoral campaign.
00:00:44.160 Fuck yeah.
00:00:44.800 Because...
00:00:45.400 We deserve it.
00:00:46.580 Because as it turns out, because we deserve it.
00:00:48.840 And as it turns out, in the same way that I feel like this podcast is always teaching
00:00:53.080 me about all of the ways in which misogyny is baked into our lives, I am learning as
00:00:58.400 a pregnant woman that misogynists are right and pregnant women shouldn't have to do any work
00:01:02.920 and I feel dumber by the day I feel so stupid I feel seven times more stupid than I did one
00:01:11.180 month pregnant and I will say as much as this is something that I just kind of wanted to shoot the
00:01:17.260 shit about I am kind of obsessed with reality television and we did a bonus episode about this
00:01:21.820 a few months ago and I actually realized in doing that bonus episode that I did want to make this
00:01:27.380 a main feed conversation as well. So, we're kind of circling back on that
00:01:31.140 from a different angle today. Love it. I can't wait.
00:01:35.160 So, Katie, what is your relationship to reality television?
00:01:39.100 Hmm, shameful. I grew up watching Keeping Up with the Kardashians and Real Housewives with my mom.
00:01:46.380 Okay, that was your entry point.
00:01:47.920 Yeah, Kardashians. I remember being in, like, elementary school and being
00:01:52.200 after school at my friend Ethan's house and his older sister Abby was watching it. And like from
00:01:58.960 the first time I laid eyes on Kim Kardashian, I was like starstruck and in love. She's perfect.
00:02:04.900 I loved her. This was probably 2007, 2008. So the show had just come out. I just remember
00:02:12.940 watching Real Housewives of New York and New Jersey with my mom and how the Teresa Giudice
00:02:19.980 table flipping prostitution whore scene became like a mainstay of culture in my household.
00:02:26.820 But as an adult, I would say that like, I don't know, I think reality television has really fallen
00:02:32.480 off. At least as an adult, it doesn't like grab me as much as it used to. And I think I alluded
00:02:37.560 to this a little bit in the bonus episode that we did about it. But I mean, I was watching Love
00:02:43.500 is Blind for a while and then that premise just kind of got stale for me. I don't really seek
00:02:49.320 out reality television as much anymore. Okay, cool. It's interesting. So you watched this with
00:02:54.640 your mom growing up. It was like kind of a bonding activity. And my mom is like, very MAGA and very
00:03:00.580 Catholic. And so like, you wouldn't think that she would have liked that kind of stuff. But she would
00:03:05.680 I mean, I we would get home from school and she'd be like, you want to watch trash TV? Like she was
00:03:10.100 she loved it, too. So it was that's awesome. Really a bridging divides out here bridging
00:03:15.000 divides. I love that. I don't remember my first reality show. I think The Kardashians was
00:03:22.240 definitely up there. I definitely watched America's Next Top Model quite a bit. I will say I definitely
00:03:27.020 watch reality television more than you do. I think I just watch television more than you do. I think
00:03:31.320 I'm a little bit more of a television addict than you are. And I think maybe because of that,
00:03:36.780 and also in combination with this podcast, I've just become kind of obsessed with the way that
00:03:41.720 reality television functions alongside other topics that we talk about on this show. I think
00:03:47.280 when we talk about the idea of being womaned or the idea of these cultural event rabbit holes
00:03:52.160 where people can move politically without realizing it, I feel like that can often
00:03:56.160 happen with reality television. And there's something that feels just very slippery about
00:04:00.620 the conversation with it, where it has fully remade the entertainment industry. It has
00:04:06.780 completely changed the way that we think about entertainment. I think that that alongside social
00:04:12.860 media has kind of created this like everything is reality television all the time. And there's
00:04:17.920 this kind of chicken and egg feeling where it's not like we, it's not like Mark Zuckerberg decided
00:04:22.740 to make FaceMash because of reality TV. He did it because he hates women. But I do think that there
00:04:27.820 is this feeling of just as technology advances, we have this like panopticon all the time where
00:04:34.240 everything is reality TV and it just feels like it's increasing. It doesn't feel like the strangle
00:04:38.480 hold is slipping. A couple thoughts. Number one, I forgot to say that I also watch Mormon Wives,
00:04:43.680 which we all know because I had plenty of Taylor, Frankie Paul, Apologia on offer in our bonus
00:04:48.380 episode. But that show to me, because of how it comes out like twice a year and all the episodes
00:04:53.900 drop and then you can binge them over like 48 hours, that to me, I feel like I have the same
00:04:58.400 like memory holing effect as the heiress tour where people would leave after four hours and
00:05:02.420 be like, what just happened? I'm like, it's all I think about for three days, and then I completely
00:05:07.120 forget it exists. And then it's gone. And then it's just completely gone. So, like, there's that.
00:05:12.660 That is true. Number two, are we going to talk about why reality television became,
00:05:17.920 like, the economic reasons that reality television became so popular? Unscripted television?
00:05:22.960 No, but we can talk about it now. Okay, I was just going to say, I think it is really,
00:05:26.520 really fascinating. It doesn't sound like it's an element of, like, what you want to talk about
00:05:30.540 today but but when you think about like the reasons why unscripted tv became so preferential
00:05:36.980 for like executives at these networks because they didn't have to hire writers or like actors
00:05:42.300 you basically just get these like desperate schmucks who want to be famous and put them
00:05:46.380 like ruin their lives basically right and it's really popular so i think that that element of
00:05:51.820 this is really interesting and i had a third thing but my brain is too rotted from reality
00:05:56.600 television so i don't remember what it was maybe it'll come back to me later
00:06:00.320 Maybe you're pregnant, too.
00:06:02.080 Take a test while we're recording.
00:06:03.840 God, I hope not.
00:06:04.780 Reality TV!
00:06:07.680 Oh, the Panopticon.
00:06:09.220 The Panopticon.
00:06:10.200 That's what I was going to say.
00:06:11.540 Immediately when you say that, the thing that I think of is the couple at the Coldplay concert,
00:06:16.080 where, like, they were making out on—
00:06:17.780 Wait, describe that really quickly for anyone, yeah.
00:06:19.480 Okay, so this was a weird—one of those moments, like, national Rorschach tests,
00:06:25.840 where it feels like everyone is talking about the same thing,
00:06:28.280 where there was a couple at a Coldplay concert
00:06:31.580 where it was actually two co-workers
00:06:33.900 who were both cheating on their spouses
00:06:35.560 and they got put on the Kiss Cam big screen
00:06:38.560 and it got videotaped that, like, they, you know,
00:06:41.860 they, like, hid, basically.
00:06:43.720 And everyone was like, what's up with that?
00:06:45.780 And it went viral and, like, he had to step down as CEO
00:06:48.620 and, like, it blew up their marriages.
00:06:50.860 And it was this whole thing.
00:06:52.100 And it kind of started this conversation
00:06:53.960 where people were, like, vaguely uncomfortable
00:06:56.660 with the fact that, like,
00:06:58.280 These two private citizens that were just, I mean, like, cheating on their spouses, sure, but just, like, enjoying a concert together ended up having their lives and personal lives.
00:07:08.300 And also, last time I checked, cheating on your spouse.
00:07:11.240 Not illegal.
00:07:11.960 It's not illegal. Yeah.
00:07:13.600 Everyone should do it every six months just to keep things spicy.
00:07:17.320 I completely agree.
00:07:17.920 I'm just kidding.
00:07:18.260 But that is a great example, because then what happened is that this became this cultural moment where Ryan Reynolds turned it into a commercial. And then the woman involved in the scandal ended up doing like a sit down tell all, I believe, with Oprah. And so you really do get into this feeling again, where it's not like she got a reality television show. But the experience of consuming that story was reality TV.
00:07:40.700 That was the point. People were trying to find out details about them. They felt entitled to their indiscretion. And again, we were then like basically losing our minds over the fact that this has happened. And this was for cheating. That is not illegal. But very quickly, it's immoral. I think we've seen the same thing with the summer house drama that has been playing out where it's like you have people who have theoretically, again, we don't know these people. You have people who have theoretically like basically gone behind their friends or their partner's backs and hooked up.
00:08:09.520 is it unseemly sure is it illegal no are we acting like it's illegal absolutely was there
00:08:15.700 a summer house reunion recently i feel like i saw a cut headline yes and that's what i was going to
00:08:20.640 talk about okay great i'm i do want the update because i have not followed it at all so i have
00:08:25.820 no idea what ended up happening but i just saw headlines about the reunion happening dude it was
00:08:31.880 nuts first of all it's it's i think it's going to be a two or a three-part series and i think by the
00:08:36.480 time this episode comes out, the second part will have come out. We, I have only watched the first
00:08:39.920 part. I got Riley up at 6am to watch it the other day while we were in San Francisco for tour. It
00:08:45.280 was nuts. I mean, it was exactly what you would imagine. Amanda and Wes, who are the offending
00:08:49.420 party, were just annihilated. And the reason actually why I wanted to talk about this today
00:08:55.280 was because I was watching that reunion and something that happened in that reunion that
00:08:59.540 kind of struck me as new was that Amanda and Wes, who are the ones essentially in the hot seats
00:09:05.280 while all the contestants are furious with them.
00:09:07.200 They're kind of getting filleted.
00:09:08.420 They were both very calm and very zen.
00:09:10.980 And the prevailing theory after the reunion aired
00:09:13.720 was that they were both on beta blockers or Xanax
00:09:16.540 or some kind of medication.
00:09:18.680 Wow, I was going to make a joke that they were on Xanax.
00:09:21.540 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:09:22.020 But that's amazing that that was actually the theory.
00:09:25.040 Exactly.
00:09:25.660 I mean, Riley brought it up when we were watching it.
00:09:27.180 He was like, for sure, they're on beta blockers.
00:09:29.100 I don't know if they were,
00:09:30.000 but that was a conversation that dominated the following days.
00:09:33.680 And people were furious.
00:09:35.280 They were mad, essentially, that they had been cheated of the opportunity to watch these people
00:09:40.820 really suffer. Like, it's not enough for you to be there. You have to look uncomfortable. You have
00:09:46.960 to experience this, and I have to see you experience it. There has been this whole wave of like, no,
00:09:53.520 if you're going to go up there, you got to actually take it, and we need to see you be upset. We need
00:09:57.400 to see you be sad. And it felt like the next iteration of this expectation of like the compact
00:10:02.540 we have with these people, where it's like, not only do they have to share their personal lives
00:10:06.820 or lean into these narratives or show up for the reunion, but they've got to emote the way that we
00:10:11.980 want them to. Like a commercial for benzodiazepines. Right, right. And so I was just watching this
00:10:18.940 unfold because honestly, I felt a little cheated. And I was like, why do I care that they're not
00:10:23.480 reacting more emotionally? Yeah. I felt kind of like I was sitting in the Roman stadium where
00:10:29.960 you're like, well, I paid a lot of money to watch this person get eaten alive. And they're just
00:10:33.860 taking it. It's very anticlimactic. You have this expectation. So we're not going to talk about
00:10:39.300 Summer House at length today, but that was kind of one of those tipping moments for me. I think
00:10:44.540 I've talked about this in the bonus episode as well, that we have this belief that mainstream
00:10:48.380 media is liberal. That's something that we push quite a bit. And that we have a liberal bias.
00:10:53.700 And I think you and I spend a lot of time unpacking just how not true that is.
00:10:59.020 There was a great episode, by the way, of, I think it was Citations Needed recently about this, like how conservative thinkers in the late 20th century kind of embedded that notion into society that media is liberal.
00:11:14.120 Yeah. So in the bonus episode, we talked quite a bit about Taylor, Frankie Paul, and Amanda Bichula and the kind of psychological weirdness of watching reality TV. Today, we're going to talk about the political connection with reality television, the way that politicians move in and out of the reality television sphere.
00:11:31.680 And what I want to think about this in terms of metaphorical resonance is the idea of reality
00:11:36.560 television as this swamp. And we often talk about the people who walk into and out of it,
00:11:41.180 but we don't really talk about the fact that we are all sitting in the swamp at all times.
00:11:45.900 Like, we're in the swamp. We're just ambiently bathing in the swamp. And we're talking about
00:11:50.200 the people who enter and exit it, but we're not really thinking about, like, well, what are they
00:11:53.620 entering and exiting? And what is our proximity to it? So that's what we're talking about today,
00:11:58.100 which is basically my intellectual explanation for my burning desire to talk about Spencer
00:12:02.620 Pratt's mayoral campaign for the city of Los Angeles, which ended on June 2nd when he didn't
00:12:07.940 receive a high enough percentage of the votes to reach runoff status with incumbent mayor Karen
00:12:12.660 Bass. But Pratt's involvement in this mayoral campaign has essentially defined the conversation
00:12:17.080 for the last six-ish months that he ran. And that is what we are talking about today.
00:12:22.540 So Katie, okay, what do you know about Spencer Pratt?
00:12:24.260 Spencer Pratt, Spencer Pratt. Well, I did notice in my Liz Lenz newsletter this morning that she did a dingus of the week about Spencer Pratt, and it was like, spiritually, he is always wearing two-layered pastel-colored polo shirts with the collars popped.
00:12:39.560 It's like, yeah, that tracks. Spencer Pratt was kind of like the villain on the hills, which was an early 2000s reality television show, which introduced the world to unproblematic queen Lauren Conrad.
00:12:56.280 and spencer was one half of this villainous couple spidey spencer and heidi and i know he's
00:13:05.580 a blonde man which i have feelings about i know he loves crystals wait wait wait wait what are
00:13:14.100 your feelings about blonde men or can you not air them are they too hot jail illegal it just
00:13:21.400 Never the twain shall meet is my feelings about blonde adult men.
00:13:27.260 I can't explain it.
00:13:28.580 It just doesn't sit right with me.
00:13:30.380 It makes me uneasy.
00:13:31.780 I'm just kidding.
00:13:33.700 You're not kidding.
00:13:35.300 Well, you know, it's like the frosted tips thing, but natural.
00:13:39.260 If nature gives you frosted tips, I think we should have a conversation about that.
00:13:47.240 Okay, that's an excellent summary.
00:13:49.060 Yeah, so Spencer Pratt was a character, emphasis on the word character, who was a villain on a reality television show called The Hills, a very formative reality television show.
00:13:59.280 And you're right, it's centered around Lauren Conrad, who had kind of sprung to fame from an earlier reality television show, one of the earlier ones, Laguna Beach.
00:14:06.560 Oh, you're right.
00:14:07.480 So she was in her early 20s when she did this reality television show, and it kind of followed her exploits around Los Angeles.
00:14:15.240 It aired from 2006.
00:14:16.740 Oh, exploits.
00:14:17.060 Yeah, to around 2010. And in the first season, Lauren meets Heidi. They become fast friends and eventual roommates. And then in season two, Heidi's got a bad boyfriend and his name is Spencer Puatt.
00:14:30.400 Spencer Puatt.
00:14:31.420 Spencer Puatt. He famously comes between Lauren and Heidi. It's a whole thing. It inspired a number of infamous quotes, including Lauren telling Heidi, I want to forgive you and I want to forget you, which is fucking bars.
00:14:44.780 So yeah, Spencer's a bit of a nightmare.
00:14:46.180 I was looking for like a series of montages
00:14:48.240 of like his behavior on the hills
00:14:50.560 and then like seven hours passed
00:14:52.180 and I was like, I'm no closer.
00:14:53.780 I'm no closer.
00:14:54.140 So anyways, you can look it up.
00:14:55.700 He's just a nightmare.
00:14:56.640 He's exactly what you'd imagine.
00:14:58.120 And then eventually the hills kind of shriveled up.
00:14:59.900 It ended, interest in it kind of died.
00:15:02.440 And Spencer and Heidi, who got married during the hills
00:15:05.320 and were kind of an infamous villain couple,
00:15:07.460 were left scrambling, right?
00:15:08.760 Because the show is over.
00:15:09.880 You don't make that much money on reality TV.
00:15:12.180 And so they kind of hover around the periphery of Hollywood for years in a pretty tragic way, I would say.
00:15:19.200 Heidi releases music.
00:15:20.880 She famously gets, like, this is actually really sad.
00:15:23.020 She gets an obscene amount of cosmetic augmentation done.
00:15:26.380 Oh, I remember the boob job because she got cup size H for Heidi.
00:15:31.220 Yes.
00:15:31.800 She got 10 procedures done in a single day.
00:15:35.200 It eventually basically became another storyline that she was leaning into.
00:15:38.320 so you would see her on the cover of tabloids just looking almost unrecognizable and then
00:15:42.720 talking about how much she regretted it but then getting more cosmetic work done at one point she
00:15:47.940 and spencer file for divorce and then call it off and eventually they admit that they did that
00:15:52.880 because they learned the hills was not going to be picked up for another season and they thought
00:15:56.760 the divorce might pick up interest for another series and to like boost her music career
00:16:01.480 Thank you.