Diabolical Lies - May 18, 2025


The Kurious Kase of Karoline Leavitt


Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 50 minutes

Words per minute

178.81

Word count

19,725

Sentence count

1,199

Harmful content

Misogyny

150

sentences flagged

Toxicity

204

sentences flagged

Hate speech

50

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.460 Today's episode of Diabolical Lies was brought to you by the Kay Jewelers line of First Communion
00:00:05.680 Jewelry, the campaign finance regulator who wants to know why Caroline stopped texting her back,
00:00:11.280 Bare Minerals warmth, Casey Means as astrologer, Ann Taylor Loft's annual factory blowout sale,
00:00:17.340 and the selfie stick manufacturer being kept in business solely by the new media section of the
00:00:21.380 White House press briefing room. Oh my god, Bare Minerals catching a stray.
00:00:26.880 We have a really deep bench of sponsors today for this episode.
00:00:32.980 Yes, today we are talking about White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt and what her appointment, her style, and her online presence tells us.
00:00:44.340 Because I think for me, the capitalism episode felt like a real capstone.
00:00:49.280 Capstone with a K.
00:00:50.280 It really stretched my intellectual limits. It left my brain feeling pretty wrung out from trying to capture something so large and all-encompassing. And then spending an hour explaining all the heinous crimes of the CIA felt extremely dark. And then your Who Wants Kids episode that we did next made me confront some, like, very uncomfortable and challenging contradictions in my own belief system.
00:01:13.580 So, for today's episode, I was like, you know what I haven't done in a while? 0.97
00:01:18.200 A bad faith shit-talking hit piece. 0.93
00:01:20.400 So, that's what I have for you today. 0.99
00:01:23.920 Going back to our roots.
00:01:25.560 I asked myself, who am I so consumed with hate for that I could spend 40 hours ingesting every meaningless detail about their life and transforming it into a withering psychoanalysis?
00:01:37.540 who is so underqualified and lies with such pathological confidence that it would be fun
00:01:43.260 to study how and why they've gotten where they are. And so obviously there was no choice but
00:01:48.380 Caroline Levitt, the White House press secretary who runs briefings with all the energy and 1.00
00:01:52.980 thinly veiled disdain of a hungover sorority president. Kara, what do you know about Caroline 0.96
00:01:57.960 Levitt? Okay, I did not know that her name actually starts with a K. So that's where I
00:02:03.440 would start like i thought that it was just kind of like a tiktok shit post and then when i found 0.98
00:02:08.180 out i was like this is the work of some really devious shit taking place in that family 0.96
00:02:13.340 so that's what i know about her cool so basically nothing yeah i spent a little too much time i 0.85
00:02:20.220 think listening to every interview she's ever done it left me with a little bit of stockholm
00:02:24.260 syndrome that i'm still working through now when she pops up on my screen i'm like ah hello old
00:02:28.200 friend but i also think i realized something accidentally in producing this episode that
00:02:33.380 is unfortunately much more foreboding about media and influence. So we'll get into that too.
00:02:39.980 Okay. I want to start today with a recent controversy. Caroline, are you familiar with
00:02:44.920 Kate Max? No, I'm not. Okay. She's the influencer, the running influencer that... Oh, oh, oh, oh,
00:02:53.440 I did hear about this. I did hear about this. She's a running influencer who I think has over
00:02:58.280 a million followers and i guess she will run and often interview or like run into like a famous 0.99
00:03:04.060 person and she ran into caroline levitt and a bunch of people were like what the fuck are you
00:03:08.780 doing normalizing insane washing her and she was like we're all too polarized all right we're gonna 0.71
00:03:15.100 watch the video hey how many miles are you running today no miles because we're at the beautiful
00:03:20.240 white house but why don't i give you a tour let's do it my name is caroline levitt i am from new
00:03:24.660 Hampshire, and I am the White House press secretary, and this is the beautiful White House. We're
00:03:28.980 currently walking on what we call Pebble Beach. This is where all of the press hang out. I can't
00:03:33.220 believe you get to wake up and be here every single day. Is this a dream come true for you?
00:03:37.780 It is a dream come true. The White House is so beautiful, especially this time of year. And then
00:03:42.140 this is the front entrance to the West Wing. What is your roles and responsibilities at the White
00:03:45.980 House? My job is to relay the president's message and his agenda and his views and feelings to the
00:03:51.280 American people through the press. What is your favorite space at the White House? Why don't we go
00:03:56.080 right in here and I will show you. And here you are, James S. Brady Briefing Room. And it is quiet
00:04:02.080 right now, but typically on a briefing day, you would walk in here and it will be packed with
00:04:06.160 journalists from all across the world. What do you do for preparation before walking into this room?
00:04:10.900 I pray to God before every briefing. It's a moment to just ground myself and level set. But before
00:04:15.660 the prayer comes a lot of preparation. My team and I are just reading the news. I talk to the
00:04:20.140 president multiple times and this is what we call lower press this is where my incredible team sits
00:04:25.280 every day this is liz that's davis hat nice to meet you harrison in here anna and we have kush
00:04:31.520 and they are the front lines of the white house press shop this used to be my seat here when i was
00:04:37.520 an assistant press secretary you're good max if you're not already she's an icon this is my office
00:04:44.880 I have, obviously, photos of myself with the president.
00:04:49.040 You also have a picture of me, and that's my baby, my nine-month-old son.
00:04:52.520 That was from our senior staff swearing-in ceremony.
00:04:55.040 And then this picture here is from my first briefing.
00:04:57.700 This is a seventh-grade class from Georgia who came to visit.
00:05:00.840 Their dad is one of my colleagues here in the White House,
00:05:02.860 and they asked if I could go speak to the students, and they wrote me this cute little thing.
00:05:06.360 Yeah, another picture of my baby on his first Air Force One flight.
00:05:09.360 And then this is a meme that I love.
00:05:11.220 It's a man pointing at a brain, and it says,
00:05:13.340 No, thanks. I won't be needing that because I believe everything the legacy media shows.
00:05:17.260 So look, we want critical thinking around here.
00:05:19.820 You started out as a White House intern during Trump's first term.
00:05:23.340 What is it like now being back and being the White House press secretary for him?
00:05:28.060 It's crazy. I mean, it has totally come completely full circle.
00:05:32.140 What is a quote or motto that you live by?
00:05:34.380 God is within her. She will not fail.
00:05:36.460 Hi, guys. Look who we ran into one week after hanging out with Patrick.
00:05:40.460 We got to get you on the running show.
00:05:41.740 you just never know who you're gonna see at the white house by the way this is the president's
00:05:49.760 tesla which he so generously has told staff that we are allowed to drive if we wish to take it out 0.99
00:05:55.660 i haven't taken a move on the offer but maybe i will soon if you guys see caroline whipping around
00:06:00.540 that red tesla now you know why so we are here in the south court auditorium in the eisenhower
00:06:06.160 executive office building well why don't we sit down and have an interview okay so oh my god i
00:06:11.240 did not know the interview was that long uh yeah and she didn't just join kate for the video she
00:06:17.200 also joined her for an insanely sycophantic 27 minute podcast episode on kate's podcast post
00:06:23.500 run high oh my god which i had the displeasure of listening to on 2x speed so there's a lot of
00:06:30.400 speculation that she was paid to produce that video i think the like pretty definitely flagrant
00:06:35.020 tesla ad at the end sealed the deal also can we just talk about like what what are the um the
00:06:40.620 practical realities of any trump staffer being able to take out that one tesla for a spin
00:06:46.980 in washington dc like what does that even mean i also love that she's like i pray before every 0.99
00:06:54.380 press briefing to ground myself i just love that because then she gets out there and just fucking 1.00
00:06:59.460 cunts down on those reporters i know that the press secretary isn't i i understand that you 0.97
00:07:06.360 wouldn't traditionally understand them as part of the mainstream media but i'm like in another way 0.87
00:07:09.980 you are the most essential part of legacy media. I feel like the press secretary for the President
00:07:16.600 of the United States is about as legacy media as it gets, but I loved her little really funny sick 1.00
00:07:22.040 burn. What you notice immediately is that in her interpersonal conversation, she basically sounds 0.80
00:07:28.200 like a completely different person than she does behind the podium when she's actually doing the
00:07:33.700 briefings. So let's go back to the beginning. Caroline Levitt is a 27-year-old from New
00:07:39.580 Hampshire. She was born in the very, very small town of Atkinson. It had a population of around
00:07:46.640 5,000 people in the 1990s when she was born there. Demographically, this town is 98% white,
00:07:54.220 and around 3% of the people there live below the poverty line. So nationally, that number is around
00:08:00.800 11%. So it's markedly kind of lower than the national average. In every single interview
00:08:08.200 that she does, almost without fail, she grew up in what she classifies as alternately a working
00:08:14.840 class family, a middle class family, but almost always she'll describe it as a small business
00:08:20.700 family. Oh God, is she like the heir to Walmart? Unfortunately not. It's better than that. So her
00:08:26.480 Her mom owned and ran an ice cream shop, and her dad owned and operated a used car dealership.
00:08:33.920 Well, that's perfect.
00:08:34.920 She talks about this used car dealership a lot.
00:08:37.580 She explains her upbringing basically the same way every single time.
00:08:40.320 So we're actually going to watch her recent appearance on Megyn Kelly.
00:08:43.380 I'm really sorry, Caroline.
00:08:44.620 You're going to have to deal with the extensions.
00:08:47.700 I was raised in a family that was not political at all.
00:08:50.500 Business family, small business.
00:08:51.940 we owned an ice cream stand in a used truck shop that my family still runs up in new hampshire
00:08:56.660 which is where i was born and raised and the fact that i grew up in new hampshire it kind of opened
00:09:02.020 my eyes to politics obviously being the first in the nation primary state but i went to school on
00:09:07.780 a softball scholarship i was an athlete my whole life and when i went to college st anselm college
00:09:13.220 to play softball we always go there it's a very politically active school and i realized wow i
00:09:18.340 I loved news and media and politics, and I was fascinated by it all.
00:09:24.080 And I kind of threw myself into all of these different opportunities on campus,
00:09:27.680 and then one thing led to the next, and here we are.
00:09:30.640 So you interned for Trump 1.0?
00:09:33.960 Yes.
00:09:34.460 For the White House?
00:09:35.260 I did.
00:09:35.880 While you were in college?
00:09:36.840 Yes.
00:09:37.700 Wow.
00:09:38.180 Yes.
00:09:38.660 What happened there?
00:09:39.260 So 2016 was the first election I was eligible to vote in.
00:09:43.140 Voted for Donald Trump in the New Hampshire primary and, of course, in the general election.
00:09:47.220 and I applied for an internship.
00:09:50.420 A student who was a few years older than me,
00:09:53.180 who's actually a producer for ABC at the White House now,
00:09:57.160 was a fellow student and she was an intern under Obama.
00:10:00.780 And I remember hearing her talk about it in class one day
00:10:03.060 and I thought, that's fascinating.
00:10:04.340 I want to be an intern for Donald Trump.
00:10:06.300 So I literally went on whitehouse.gov
00:10:08.840 and applied for the internship.
00:10:11.200 Literally went online and applied, if you can believe that.
00:10:15.140 Okay.
00:10:16.660 At another point in this interview,
00:10:17.840 she talks about how Trump is really for the forgotten men and women
00:10:21.520 and that those were the people that she grew up around
00:10:24.380 were the forgotten men and women.
00:10:25.880 In one interview I watched, she said, quote,
00:10:27.780 My dad came from nothing and worked his way up.
00:10:31.400 He didn't take handouts from anyone.
00:10:33.820 He reminds me of President Trump.
00:10:37.660 That sort of just, like, baldly absurd comment
00:10:40.520 is just typical for Levitt
00:10:42.720 because, of course, Trump received millions of dollars from his father
00:10:45.640 and is notorious for doing backroom deals
00:10:47.940 that privately enrich himself as, like, you know,
00:10:51.660 matter of course and his governance.
00:10:53.960 I also found that to be, like, a little something poetic
00:10:56.660 about the fact that she continuously mentions her father's profession
00:10:59.320 as a used car salesman
00:11:01.140 because she's basically a used car salesman herself.
00:11:04.400 I was going to say the metaphor is so rich.
00:11:06.720 It's like, and it comes up every single time.
00:11:09.580 She attended St. Anselm's, a Benedictine Catholic college,
00:11:14.160 on a softball scholarship, as you just heard her say,
00:11:16.800 though I believe she stopped after her sophomore year.
00:11:19.740 Depending on the interview, she'll usually say she realized that
00:11:22.600 politics was her true passion, not softball.
00:11:26.080 Unless she's interviewing Riley Gaines, 1.00
00:11:27.600 then she'll tell you how much women's sports mean to her.
00:11:30.100 But once she was there, she publishes a couple of op-eds
00:11:33.640 in their school's newspaper, okay?
00:11:35.700 So we're going to read one of her first pieces in the student newspaper,
00:11:38.880 which would ordinarily be, like, a weird thing to do,
00:11:41.540 but given the context of Caroline Leavitt,
00:11:43.560 who has taken on something of a wunderkind personal brand
00:11:47.340 as the youngest person to ever hold this job,
00:11:50.120 I do think it's important that we fully grasp her journalism chops.
00:11:54.460 So she had been writing for the school newspaper,
00:11:56.540 the St. Anselm Crier,
00:11:57.780 where she had criticized her professors for criticizing the president,
00:12:02.100 and she'd frequently complained about, like, the biased liberal media.
00:12:05.380 So here is the majority of one of her pieces.
00:12:08.880 if you wouldn't mind reading it for us.
00:12:11.560 All right, clocking in is K-K-Caroline.
00:12:14.420 Love it.
00:12:14.880 All right.
00:12:16.020 I would like to begin by saying
00:12:17.420 I am certainly not the only student here
00:12:19.720 who feels the way I do.
00:12:21.600 What I will express in this letter
00:12:22.920 is not a tremendous issue on campus.
00:12:25.660 However, it is a rather annoying debacle
00:12:27.860 that I find myself experiencing every day.
00:12:29.960 Strong start.
00:12:32.700 Professors need to realize
00:12:33.840 that their political beliefs
00:12:34.880 do not necessarily align
00:12:36.180 with the opinions of all of their students.
00:12:38.540 Their job here is to teach and to inform.
00:12:42.140 By no means should they infuse their political beliefs into their classroom lectures.
00:12:46.780 I could give countless—oh, this is going to be like, I could give examples, but I won't.
00:12:49.840 I could give countless instances where professors of all subjects, from politics to philosophy, communication, and even biology, have made their political objectives, beliefs, and criticisms more than clear throughout class.
00:13:03.080 In one instance last spring, the professor opened class by stating that he or she did not vote for 0.98
00:13:09.020 President Trump because they think he is a, quote, maniac goofball. How is that relevant at all to 0.97
00:13:14.540 the class discussion? What could that professor possibly have gained from stating that to the
00:13:18.920 class? I sat there, baffled, as I do most classes, wondering how my professor could ever have thought
00:13:24.460 saying such a thing in front of 30 young students was appropriate. Furthermore, it is no surprise
00:13:29.740 that the majority of professors here are blatantly liberal.
00:13:32.400 I would be curious to look into that.
00:13:34.420 And that is fine.
00:13:35.720 I'm not ready to attack the party they belong to
00:13:37.940 or to critique the ideologies in which they align themselves with.
00:13:41.080 But they must not infiltrate those beliefs and opinions
00:13:43.960 into classroom discussion.
00:13:45.700 This is, okay, do you remember School of Rock?
00:13:48.540 Yes.
00:13:49.400 Do you remember Summer in School of Rock
00:13:51.460 and how she was always like raising her hand and being like, 0.99
00:13:53.240 I was going to say, this poor just fucking 0.99
00:13:54.440 let me speak to the manager-ass energy. 1.00
00:13:57.660 Yeah.
00:13:57.900 They must not allow their own bias to warp class material. I could recall more instances than one
00:14:04.200 when a professor has allowed their own political opinions to sway real-world examples. Such examples
00:14:09.560 should help further one's understanding of the material. They should not further one's
00:14:13.680 understanding of what the professor believes. I feel like she's having a misunderstanding of
00:14:17.040 how classes work anyways. And lastly, our professors must realize that not all students
00:14:21.160 here feel the way they do. In fact, there are students here who voted for President Trump and
00:14:26.000 still support him. If you are a professor reading this, I hope you did not have a heart attack at
00:14:30.560 that statement. But yes, it is true. Wow. Someone get this woman, a MacArthur grant.
00:14:35.240 Your youngest press secretary in history, everybody.
00:14:38.540 We talk about this all the time, but I feel like I want to state it very clearly here because it's
00:14:42.500 also going to play into our next episode. We're going to be looking at something that I learned
00:14:46.520 in my college experience, and that's going to be really fun. But I've been thinking about it a lot,
00:14:50.840 the way that like we talk about whether colleges are woke or conservative. And it's like,
00:14:54.440 just for the record, there is no class you're ever going to take that is not shaped by
00:14:59.000 someone's bias. Bias is not avoidable. It's like you said in our previous episode,
00:15:04.580 social engineering will always have a bias. There will always be an outcome,
00:15:07.960 even if you're teaching economics, even if you're teaching math, the way that a professor chooses
00:15:11.760 to teach always exists. And I feel like one of the sneaky things that happens in these
00:15:15.940 stupid little essays is that they'll be like, we just need facts. And I'm like, 0.99
00:15:20.580 yeah, but you're actually implying a world that doesn't exist.
00:15:22.800 Well, it's a little bit like the Chris Rufo tirade where I know they had him on The Daily, you know, a couple weeks ago. And he was complaining that there's no prominent conservative voices in academia. And he's like, oh, it doesn't reflect the country. And I think it was the president of Princeton that went on, you know, the day before and was like, well, our job isn't to reflect the opinions of the country. Our job is to educate people.
00:15:49.840 Also, the fuck there aren't conservatives in college campuses? 0.99
00:15:53.540 Like, I'm so sick of that. 0.99
00:15:55.000 Well, of course.
00:15:56.140 Yeah, I mean, I think that that is like a bigger ongoing culture war playing out in academia right now.
00:16:02.320 So I just love that she was kind of on the front lines of that one.
00:16:05.820 So following a series of unimaginative op-eds, she, quote,
00:16:09.700 founded the school's first broadcasting club in 2017.
00:16:15.900 Now, I saw this reported in multiple places.
00:16:18.220 She also talks about this a lot in interviews, usually kind of briefly, that, like, she was so in love with journalism and so in love with broadcasting that she decided to start a broadcasting club in 2017.
00:16:32.300 Here's what this actually was.
00:16:34.180 She's obviously not a very strong writer. 1.00
00:16:36.260 Obviously.
00:16:36.880 And her participation in the student newspaper did not last very long.
00:16:41.500 One source familiar with her at the time told Adam Wren for Politico that Levitt was frustrated with how slowly the newspaper published that writing a story on Monday, going to print on Friday, and then not getting in front of people until the following Tuesday was unacceptable to her.
00:17:00.640 She wanted to speed up the news cycle.
00:17:04.280 Of course she did.
00:17:05.100 So, she created her own platform, her own show, where she could control both the narrative and the speed with which that narrative was being delivered.
00:17:13.160 It's like Kremlin.gov.
00:17:16.640 We're going to watch one of her first newscasts about Trump becoming president. 1.00
00:17:21.400 Oh, my fucking God. 0.99
00:17:22.760 It is—there are layers, Caroline. 1.00
00:17:27.020 You are just—
00:17:30.040 Whew, okay.
00:17:35.100 Good evening, everyone. Welcome back.
00:17:41.320 Oh, my fucking God. 0.99
00:17:42.240 And thank you for checking out our first newscast of the semester, 0.99
00:17:44.560 and obviously our first broadcast here in studio at Goffstown TV.
00:17:49.100 We have a lot to cover tonight, as a lot has happened since the last time we saw you.
00:17:53.580 But before we get to what is happening on campus at school,
00:17:57.420 I think it's only appropriate to address the biggest news not only in America,
00:18:01.600 but perhaps the world, our new president.
00:18:03.860 Last Friday, Donald J. Trump swore into the highest office in the land, becoming the 45th president of the United States of America.
00:18:12.480 Since the inauguration, Trump has made progress on many important but equally different issues and has signed a few executive orders that could dramatically change the direction in which our country was headed under the Obama administration.
00:18:26.000 Joining me to discuss Trump's changes so far is Hillary Clinton supporter and our very own political analyst, Tom Mannion.
00:18:33.500 So first, Tom, thank you for being here.
00:18:35.900 Thanks for having me.
00:18:36.580 I'd like to ask you not only about his orders, but as an avid Clinton supporter and Democrat,
00:18:41.740 how did you feel last Friday watching Trump swear into the Oval Office?
00:18:44.700 So she does want feelings.
00:18:45.800 He was elected in November, so I've had two months to decompress
00:18:48.820 and understand what happened for Democrats across the country.
00:18:52.600 But, you know, it was very symbolic.
00:18:54.940 And even as a Democrat, I love to see the peaceful transfer of power.
00:18:59.140 It doesn't happen in a lot of countries.
00:19:00.480 And to see go from President Obama to President Trump was very touching.
00:19:05.800 And I mean, everyone can expect the peaceful transfer of power in this country.
00:19:11.100 That's what makes America so great.
00:19:13.300 Is it, Caroline?
00:19:14.700 Is the peaceful transfer?
00:19:15.920 Do you still?
00:19:17.460 I would like to seek a follow-up statement on the peaceful transition of power. 0.98
00:19:23.880 Citations fucking needed. 0.79
00:19:25.660 It's actually really striking watching this because I didn't realize, 0.98
00:19:28.800 or I guess I forgot, that we knew even back then 0.98
00:19:31.680 that Trump was going to become an authoritarian psychopath 0.92
00:19:34.040 because of that obsession with peaceful transfer of power. 0.79
00:19:36.900 Like, that didn't used to be a thing that we talked about
00:19:39.380 every single presidential administration.
00:19:41.620 We used to just be like, yeah, here's the new president.
00:19:44.900 It wasn't like, oh, thank God we let them in this time.
00:19:47.840 You can see the single bead of sweat dripping down her forehead.
00:19:50.520 She's like, well, and yes, Adam, because of course.
00:19:53.540 So she studied communications.
00:19:55.020 She wanted to be a journalist.
00:19:56.000 She even interned as a news anchor at one point at a Manchester ABC affiliate called WMUR, and she was offered a full-time position there, but she was accepted into the White House internship program instead, something she describes applying to from the student cafeteria while her friends were out partying.
00:20:14.840 So she very much presents herself, maybe fairly, as an extremely ambitious young person.
00:20:21.080 So Levitt gets this White House internship her junior year of college in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building mailroom.
00:20:28.220 Her job is to basically write thank you notes and cards to the people from the president.
00:20:35.720 And somehow it's not quite clear how she basically ends up getting a job in the press office.
00:20:40.180 The way it was described in One Piece was that a, quote, friend who worked as a body man for the president passed along her resume to Kayleigh McEnany, who was the press secretary at the time, who then hired her as the assistant press secretary.
00:20:54.400 The world of all right grifters is just populated almost exclusively by people who were desperate to get into legacy media and for whatever reason didn't make it.
00:21:03.880 Well, it's funny. It's kind of like Barry Weiss tweeting the other day being like, I didn't even know the Pulitzer Prize was being given out.
00:21:10.180 Oh, my God.
00:21:10.640 Yeah, well, that was yesterday.
00:21:12.040 I didn't even know.
00:21:13.100 It's like, sure, Barry.
00:21:14.180 Sure, you didn't know.
00:21:14.480 Yeah, I bet you didn't know.
00:21:15.520 I bet you don't spend time with people who read that much anymore, Barry.
00:21:18.900 So one interesting thing that jumps out to me here that I just want to call out,
00:21:21.800 considering the constant repetition of her family's background
00:21:24.680 as aligned with that of forgotten Americans,
00:21:27.600 the White House internship is unpaid,
00:21:29.980 and you have to live in or around Washington, D.C.
00:21:33.400 Oh, Katie.
00:21:34.200 Typically, unpaid internships are not possible for people
00:21:37.300 without at least some level of means.
00:21:38.820 This is kind of the major critique against unpaid internships is that they discriminate in favor of wealthy kids whose parents can afford to bankroll them while they work for free.
00:21:51.040 She never addresses how she was able to financially swing an extended period of working for free.
00:21:56.200 I will also note that in an earlier interview, a 2023 conversation with Alex Clark.
00:22:01.340 So this is the woman who delivered that very impassioned Maha speech that we played at the end of the Maha Mamas episode.
00:22:06.600 Oh, culture apothecary.
00:22:08.060 That's the one. She tells Clark that she found out she got the White House internship while she was studying abroad in Italy. So, it's possible that, like, by the time she was in college, her parents were wealthy enough to pay for all of this, but it just doesn't quite square with the way that she so frequently presents her upbringing and her family situation.
00:22:35.180 Sure.
00:22:36.260 She's also, like, way looser in that interview with Alex Clark than anything she's done recently.
00:22:41.300 That was two years ago.
00:22:43.240 So we are going to come back to that.
00:22:44.800 There's some interesting stuff that comes out in that interview.
00:22:47.620 Okay, so she's assistant press secretary to McEnany.
00:22:50.400 Then Trump loses in 2020, and she doesn't have a job.
00:22:54.060 She then takes a job in communications with Elise Stefanik, a Republican representative from New York.
00:23:00.360 Why are you giggling? 1.00
00:23:01.360 I just think Elise Stefanik is silly. 1.00
00:23:03.660 I think she's just, like, a silly person. 0.99
00:23:04.960 She's not, like, as maniacal as, like, a Marjorie Taylor Greene, but I find her behavior and intellectual chops to be silly. 1.00
00:23:13.800 I think she's a silly person. 0.99
00:23:16.960 The lowest, kindest blow you've ever leveled on this show. 1.00
00:23:22.100 I think she's silly. 0.99
00:23:23.880 She's unserious, and she makes me smile. 0.98
00:23:27.020 So Caroline was actually with Stefanik in the Capitol on January 6th.
00:23:32.320 She has never publicly commented on her experience that day beyond declaring in an interview when she was asked about it that the right was, quote, the movement of law and order.
00:23:42.020 Dude.
00:23:42.500 So a local reporter is like, so you were there.
00:23:44.780 Yeah, what do you have to say about that?
00:23:46.920 And she's like, well, obviously we are the party of law and order.
00:23:50.940 So after January 6th, this is kind of a turning point for Levitt.
00:23:54.400 She kind of goes from being this rabidly driven young person trying to work in Trump's White
00:24:01.240 House to what I would say was sealing her fate as somebody who, if Trump ascended to
00:24:08.840 power again, would be rewarded.
00:24:11.260 The Columbia Journalism Review reported that after January 6th, most Trump loyalists distanced
00:24:17.020 themselves.
00:24:18.020 This was a period of, like, real shame for MAGA and a question of, like, he hasn't been
00:24:22.820 reelected.
00:24:23.540 This was a very embarrassing fiasco.
00:24:27.220 Leavitt did not distance herself.
00:24:29.320 One source told them that that's the reason Leavitt has the job she has right now.
00:24:34.140 Loyalty when everyone else fled.
00:24:36.740 Which, the irony of it being not a peaceful transition of power that then sealed her is just too much.
00:24:43.640 So, eventually, Stefanik encourages her to run for Congress in New Hampshire.
00:24:48.420 Did you know she ran for Congress in New Hampshire?
00:24:50.660 Katie, have you watched Veep?
00:24:52.860 No.
00:24:53.180 We had this same conversation last week.
00:24:58.780 Okay, well, you keep...
00:24:59.680 This is now the second time you've asked me on air if I've seen Veep, and the answer is still no.
00:25:03.660 You're going to continue to disappoint me until you say yes. 0.95
00:25:08.000 Anyways, this is a literal plotline on Veep that the stupidest member of, like, the cast 0.98
00:25:13.880 becomes a young congressional candidate in New Hampshire, Jonah Wright. 1.00
00:25:18.720 Are you shitting me? 0.99
00:25:19.300 It's fucking hilarious. 1.00
00:25:20.500 He's a total numbskull. 1.00
00:25:21.640 he's known for 0.99
00:25:22.780 wait I need to tell you this quote
00:25:24.400 this is like his most famous quote on Veep
00:25:27.120 someone asks how he's doing
00:25:28.960 and he goes how am I doing 1.00
00:25:30.060 eating so much pussy 1.00
00:25:31.120 I'm shitting clits son 1.00
00:25:32.500 and he runs for Congress 1.00
00:25:36.800 wins
00:25:37.500 and then runs for president
00:25:40.100 you have to watch Veep
00:25:41.400 okay anyways that's my context for Ronnie Braavis
00:25:43.700 that was a really
00:25:44.520 that was a very important contribution
00:25:46.140 to the meat of this episode
00:25:47.120 thank you for that
00:25:47.860 thank you
00:25:48.040 okay so this is where things start to get really interesting for Levitt
00:25:51.540 This section of my outline is called Caroline's Congressional with a K run.
00:25:56.160 She begins working with a GOP consultant who tells her that in order to be competitive in the New Hampshire primary, she needs to raise $1.5 million.
00:26:05.680 Now, she was a pretty distant, long-shot candidate.
00:26:09.180 There were nine others running in the Republican primary.
00:26:12.620 So she's one of 10.
00:26:14.280 And at one point fairly well into the race, she had 7% of the vote.
00:26:20.800 Okay. 7% of the Republican vote?
00:26:23.660 Yes. 1.00
00:26:24.160 So she did worse than Jackie Eubanks.
00:26:27.780 There were a lot of echoes of Jackie Eubanks in this episode.
00:26:31.480 They are, I think, spiritual sisters. 0.96
00:26:34.160 So she launches her campaign on Fox and Friends a full year before the primary,
00:26:39.340 and this is how she begins her media blitz.
00:26:41.860 So we're going to watch that, obviously.
00:26:45.160 Because, of course, we are.
00:26:46.520 I've been watching so many Fox clips on YouTube that all my sponsored ads are like,
00:26:51.320 buy gold, trade coin.
00:26:53.940 Put beef tallow on your face.
00:26:55.840 And a network exclusive, Caroline Leavitt joins us now with her exciting announcement. 1.00
00:27:00.380 Notice how all the women in this broadcast are like identical.
00:27:04.620 Thank you so much, Ainsley.
00:27:05.900 I appreciate you guys having me on this morning.
00:27:08.200 My name is Caroline Leavitt, and I am running for Congress to represent my home state of
00:27:12.980 New Hampshire.
00:27:13.480 I was born and raised in this state in a small business, blue-collar, middle-class family.
00:27:18.240 I quickly learned growing up working at my family's ice cream stand, everything is earned
00:27:23.100 in life.
00:27:23.540 Nothing is given.
00:27:24.660 That's why I went to work for President Trump in the White House.
00:27:27.700 I applied for a position in his White House in 2018, and I fought in the trenches, as
00:27:31.700 you said, Ainsley, with Kayleigh, every single day to combat the biased fake news media.
00:27:37.120 And following the election, I went to Capitol Hill to fight with Elise Stefanik.
00:27:41.080 I was proudly her spokeswoman.
00:27:42.820 And when I was working for her, I tweeted out a statement about from President Trump endorsing a lease for the House leadership position.
00:27:50.640 And Twitter took my account down in just hours.
00:27:54.120 They gave no warning.
00:27:55.080 They gave no reason.
00:27:55.980 They said it was an error.
00:27:57.280 Well, that error only happens to conservatives.
00:27:59.540 It's happening to conservatives like myself across our country.
00:28:03.180 President Trump was right when he said if they can censor and silence him.
00:28:06.700 Well, I, for one, am glad that they have restored freedom of speech for all in America.
00:28:11.440 I'm really grateful to the Trump 2.0 administration for ensuring that freedom of speech is a mandate.
00:28:17.180 I think that they're currently about to suspend habeas corpus.
00:28:20.840 So that's a nice little constitutional expansion that we're having.
00:28:24.380 It's kind of ironic because I feel like you and I both spend so much more time in, like, the conservative sphere because of this podcast.
00:28:31.740 But I also am very careful.
00:28:34.060 Like, I don't do, like, daily check-ins on the news anymore.
00:28:37.440 I'm, like, more thoughtful about it.
00:28:38.860 All of which is to say, I don't spend much time even like looking at Fox News segments anymore. And when you spend a little bit of time away from it, it is so striking how blatantly propagandistic maybe. Yeah, it's just very striking to watch it after years of kind of being away from it and being like, oh, my God, people actually view this as news. It's so shocking. Even the way it's like form a person who was censored by Twitter, like everything is a dog whistle.
00:29:05.360 So it's interesting that you're using the phrase dog whistles and you're referring to it as being propagandistic because that is something that we're going to sort of come back to is just the way that Fox News has pavloved its base into recognizing and reacting to certain ideas and phrases.
00:29:23.940 and i think she is one of the most impressive wielders of that strategy probably most impressively
00:29:34.460 of like anyone else in the like far right media sphere right now her youtube channel has dozens
00:29:41.500 and dozens of videos from her race she was on fox news a lot she was on newsmax a lot
00:29:48.160 She also became a favored project of Steve Bannon.
00:29:51.300 Of course she did.
00:29:52.820 So she went on his War Room podcast a dozen times during her primary.
00:29:59.460 A dozen features.
00:30:01.000 Wow.
00:30:01.340 Just the facts.
00:30:02.340 Just the facts.
00:30:03.460 How do you feel?
00:30:04.160 He said that Levitt's focus on the stolen election is how he knew she was, quote, true MAGA.
00:30:09.940 So this dogged commitment to the party line and, like, willingness to continue parroting what was effectively a proven lie so confidently was, like, how he knew that she was the real deal.
00:30:22.860 You know, it's funny. So The Atlantic recently did a profile with Trump where two Atlantic writers interviewed Trump. And it's a pretty stunning story. And it's all about like the last four years and how he went from being basically totally shamed leaving after the insurrection and rose to power again.
00:30:40.600 And what they shared that I'm thinking about right now is that there was a very small group of people who stayed very dedicated to Trump while the world kind of thought that he had disappeared. And they were drafting executive orders for four years. Like that is why these executive orders have been released in such a flurry is that there were this small handful of people who basically were so invested in Trump and so bought into the cult that they basically believed and just knew he was going to be president again.
00:31:07.980 And now we are seeing basically the fruits of their psychotic labor because they were just prepping for four years.
00:31:13.880 If you are so dogged for one candidate and you have four years to just plan this out, I think that's why we saw such this rush of momentum when he won again is people like Caroline.
00:31:25.040 Well, there's a source of mysticism, I think, around Trump that has been building from the beginning, but was really sealed by that failed assassination attempt.
00:31:35.340 Yes.
00:31:35.660 Where you almost get the sense that in some cases, these people believe that if they say things confidently enough, they will will it into being.
00:31:44.880 Totally.
00:31:45.300 And I think what's striking is the extent to which that has been true for a lot of it.
00:31:49.960 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:31:50.520 So Caroline somehow gets a meeting with Trump at Mar-a-Lago during this primary, and she's able to pitch her case.
00:31:58.300 Now, she's 23 at this point.
00:32:00.380 Her ask to Trump is basically, don't endorse my opponents in this primary.
00:32:05.540 He tells her, hey, I've seen the numbers.
00:32:08.180 You have 7% of the vote.
00:32:09.720 Like, it's not looking good.
00:32:11.300 And she tells him that she knows that she can do it.
00:32:14.600 Basically, give me time.
00:32:15.740 I will prove it to you.
00:32:16.960 I know that I can make this happen.
00:32:19.080 Now, no reasonable person at this point would have thought that that was true.
00:32:24.240 But Trump basically heeds the request.
00:32:27.380 He does not endorse a Republican in the primary.
00:32:31.240 And so her strategy here is very interesting.
00:32:34.220 Her use of media is very interesting.
00:32:37.020 She essentially nationalizes her primary.
00:32:39.840 She does a lot of national media to raise money for her New Hampshire Republican primary. 0.99
00:32:47.180 She ends up raising $3.8 million.
00:32:51.200 All of her appearances on Bannon's War Room podcast mean that she was collecting, quote,
00:32:56.740 thousand-dollar checks from middle-aged white guys across the country who are hardcore Trump people, end quote.
00:33:03.380 So she starts gaining ground.
00:33:05.380 She starts chipping away at her opponent's lead.
00:33:08.300 Toward the end of the race, her consultant tells her,
00:33:11.260 you have a Manchester problem.
00:33:13.040 They basically need to get more voters in Manchester, New Hampshire. 0.95
00:33:17.320 So she's like an hour away from there. 0.58
00:33:20.100 Every day, they drive her an hour to Manchester.
00:33:23.440 She knocks on doors for hours until dark, right?
00:33:27.600 Until enough people know who she is.
00:33:29.860 Now, this is genuinely impressive boots-on-the-ground versatility for someone whose primary and preferred mode of communication is, like, one-to-many mass lying.
00:33:38.500 And I think it highlights two things about Levitt. 0.98
00:33:41.460 One is that she really is a grinder. 0.65
00:33:44.260 Like, she is going to put in the hours.
00:33:47.340 And two, there is a clear split between her interpersonal relationship skills—I think you see this in the Kate Max interview—and the person that she plays on TV.
00:33:56.720 One of the consultants that she worked with, these GOP consultants, was stunned by her effort
00:34:02.220 and basically said, I'm convinced that she talked to every single person who voted for her.
00:34:08.140 Wow.
00:34:08.920 Any thoughts before I keep going?
00:34:10.160 Yeah, I just want to, let's, hold on for a second, Emma.
00:34:12.660 Are you going to make me like her or where are we?
00:34:15.480 We're going to, we're going to turn this around, right?
00:34:18.280 Like I'm a little worried about.
00:34:19.460 This is a podcast about nuance, okay?
00:34:21.420 i'm trying to fight the biased liberal mainstream media allegations yeah never gonna beat those 0.94
00:34:28.200 there's one last ditch effort by their other republicans running in this race to discount her 1.00
00:34:32.980 as she's gaining ground on them which came to be known infamously as the hoebag ad 0.94
00:34:39.060 which we are now going to watch oh my god what a treat this is also the dessert that we get for 1.00
00:34:47.040 like 15 seconds of uh considering like an ounce of empathy towards a hard-working lady 1.00
00:34:52.340 oh my god i'm caroline levitt yep that's her levitt pretends she's a conservative but really
00:35:00.020 she's just a woke gen z-er worships fauci's mask mandates records everything listen up 1.00
00:35:07.120 ho bag wants to bring her generation's new vision to congress you know mooching off her parents 1.00
00:35:13.360 running up huge credit card debt. 1.00
00:35:15.740 Woke, immature, and irresponsible. 1.00
00:35:18.380 Caroline Levitt for Congress? 0.95
00:35:20.060 No, not a chance. 0.99
00:35:21.760 Defending Main Street is responsible
00:35:22.980 for the content with this advertising.
00:35:24.540 Okay, I have a lot to say.
00:35:26.060 We just watched this campaign and the videos,
00:35:27.800 they basically had like screen grabs.
00:35:29.480 It looked almost like a Snapchat or an Instagram story
00:35:31.420 where she honestly looks like a pretty good time. 0.97
00:35:33.640 Like I would hang out with that version of Caroline. 1.00
00:35:35.760 She just sounds like a 20 year old, 0.99
00:35:37.440 but there is a picture of her skiing
00:35:39.140 and you and I have talked about this.
00:35:41.160 Skiing has always been a rich person activity.
00:35:43.360 But as climate change, which I know she doesn't believe in, as climate change worsens, skiing is for the ultra elite now. Skiing is so expensive. And so I do want to note that as like a small business owner, my mom worked in an ice cream shop. She was just in like a little like skiing onesie, which is interesting.
00:36:01.160 The other thing I was going to say is my many rounds of feedback that I have been trying to
00:36:07.440 relate to the Democratic Party over the last eight months. One other piece of feedback I would give
00:36:11.540 is that we have so quickly capitulated to being afraid of the word woke, of being like, oh, well,
00:36:17.240 we don't want to seem too woke. Like, I think we're seeing with Gavin Newsom and Pete Buttigieg
00:36:21.120 and Kamala Harris, you're seeing all these candidates basically try to appeal to this
00:36:25.040 concept of centrism and to try to distance themselves from the word woke. And I wish I
00:36:29.020 would see a democratic politician be like woke means nothing and you see that in ads like this
00:36:36.060 it's just like a derogative term that republicans use to just label someone as don't like them
00:36:42.180 like that thing of her being woke was like socialist yeah it just it means absolutely
00:36:46.940 nothing and it's so silly that we have fallen for that term to just be like no no i'm not woke it's 0.75
00:36:52.080 like well why don't we just say hey what the fuck does woke mean if caroline levitt is woke 0.87
00:36:55.700 Because she was never woke. She was always a Republican. The fact that she said, they showed a tweet that said, wear a mask. But in that tweet, it said, be a patriot, wear a mask, American flag emoji. That's hardly like a woke purple hair catless lady in a coffee shop. 1.00
00:37:12.560 A little, like, pop-up of Anthony Fauci,
00:37:14.900 and there's, like, a heart around his face.
00:37:17.240 I will also take this opportunity to note
00:37:19.400 that this is around the time that Caroline meets
00:37:21.500 and begins dating the man who will become her husband,
00:37:24.480 Nicholas Riccio, 59-year-old real estate developer.
00:37:28.300 They meet at a campaign event for her race.
00:37:30.780 So she was 23 at the time?
00:37:32.560 She might have been 24 at this point,
00:37:33.940 but yes, he's more than twice her age.
00:37:36.140 For obvious reasons,
00:37:37.140 people are having a very good time dunking on this.
00:37:39.300 I am actually choosing not to dunk on this 0.62
00:37:41.960 in this episode because I care less about her age gap marriage and more about her assistance
00:37:48.620 of the fall of the Republic. So. I might dunk. I reserve the right to potentially dunk on it.
00:37:53.700 You may reserve the right to dunk. I think that the age gap marriage is actually kind of part of 0.82
00:37:59.980 the bit, if I'm being honest. And I think you'll come to see what I think that bit is. But this,
00:38:05.420 I believe, plays into it quite nicely in her favor.
00:38:09.520 So, against all odds, she wins the Republican primary. 0.99
00:38:14.440 You're fucking kidding! 0.99
00:38:15.940 She becomes the Republican candidate. 0.99
00:38:18.220 We are going to watch her victory speech,
00:38:20.120 and I want you to tell me if you've heard this walk-up song before,
00:38:23.600 if there are any other television programs in which you've seen this song used.
00:38:29.040 Oh, my God.
00:38:35.420 How are we, everyone?
00:38:49.780 Well, I have news for you.
00:38:53.160 Our homegrown, grassroots, America First campaign prevails.
00:38:59.800 We won tonight.
00:39:05.420 Wow. Thank you all so much for being here. Thank you, thank you, thank you for the bottom
00:39:16.720 of my heart. More than one year ago, I got into this race with no name recognition, no
00:39:25.000 money, but a passion and a drive to fight for my home state of New Hampshire against
00:39:32.980 the socialist democrats who are destroying our country so she wins right and then she loses in
00:39:45.200 the general to the democrat the democrat wins now remember this is the 2022 midterms so this
00:39:49.940 was when like the big red wave was supposed to and then it was like they got defeated again and
00:39:54.500 i think everyone in the country kind of fell like okay we can put maga behind us now like that's it
00:39:59.580 and they were not to be deterred. 0.63
00:40:01.400 So this hoe bag ad, 1.00
00:40:03.480 I was really curious about how she navigated this 0.86
00:40:07.000 because they're basically using her age
00:40:09.520 and interestingly, as you noted,
00:40:12.000 her social media against her.
00:40:15.380 So finally, I find this interview
00:40:17.380 where she addresses it directly.
00:40:19.780 And I think her response is absolutely critical
00:40:24.640 for understanding the playbook.
00:40:27.520 I can't believe she won that primary, dude.
00:40:29.580 I know. Politics is boring. I'm like, you don't know anything. No, it's a game. Like it is a 0.99
00:40:36.000 vicious game. So then in politics, what's the tactic to combat something like that?
00:40:40.980 Well, at first I was like, did you just own it? Yeah. I mean, it was me. Like it was me. What
00:40:46.340 was I going to do? But were you like, I'm so sorry. No. Oh my gosh. No. Okay. Here's the
00:40:51.560 answer to your question. No, never apologize. Like double down, go on offense. I said,
00:40:56.740 this is ridiculous these people are slandering me because they're afraid that if i'm the nominee
00:41:01.660 and if i'm the next congresswoman from new hampshire i'm going to expose all of the fraud 0.92
00:41:05.780 in washington dc on both the left and the right and i'll call them hoe bags while i do it all 0.83
00:41:10.620 these hoe bags are gonna go down if i get to congress so i was just like all right we gotta 0.85
00:41:16.560 just own it and we owned it and we played the hit and then my like base was so inflamed when 0.88
00:41:24.440 that came out they were so angry like my moms and my dads and my you know vets and my old people
00:41:31.300 that were supporting me and like so invested in my campaign they're like this is vicious why would
00:41:35.640 they do this to a young woman who's trying to help us and I truly believe it led to my victory and
00:41:41.260 that's what helped lead me to winning by such a big margin in the primary because people like
00:41:47.320 were really driven to the polls by that because they saw just the viciousness of it and they
00:41:51.080 didn't like it how long did you campaign for okay never apologize yeah double down go on offense
00:42:00.620 right it's the reason i won she says so what's happening here is a young politician's worldview 0.83
00:42:08.540 is being shaped yeah she already has an instinctual command of mega media manipulation but now she's
00:42:16.180 coming to understand the playbook a little bit more fully, which is that bluster works.
00:42:21.120 I also think that all of these people have an unbelievable ability to just carry and weather
00:42:28.080 the type of attacks and anger, fairly placed, like fairly placed anger, but it just does not
00:42:35.440 bother them. Like, I think that to be a successful right-wing influencer, you need all the same
00:42:39.860 traits as you would need to become like a Taylor Swift. And that's kind of a superhuman ability
00:42:43.840 in the age of social media.
00:42:45.340 Mm-hmm.
00:42:46.300 So there's also a weird story
00:42:49.140 that still isn't resolved from this timeframe. 0.63
00:42:52.560 She still owes more than $325,000 0.97
00:42:56.120 in unpaid debts from this 2022 campaign.
00:42:59.880 What? 0.96
00:43:00.080 She has to return money to her donors 1.00
00:43:02.520 who gave above the legal limit,
00:43:04.740 which is, quote, 0.93
00:43:05.640 money her campaign never should have accepted
00:43:07.980 and shouldn't have spent,
00:43:09.780 according to a local political reporter in New Hampshire.
00:43:13.000 So...
00:43:13.280 Wow.
00:43:13.840 The Federal Election Commission has sent her 13 letters over the last two years
00:43:18.580 pointing out these issues that need to be resolved.
00:43:21.600 And as of right now, it appears that she's just ignoring it.
00:43:25.740 This story broke in New Hampshire local news about three months ago.
00:43:28.980 I have not seen any national coverage of it.
00:43:31.260 But it's interesting because you can see how the double down, go on offense, never apologize.
00:43:39.260 any misstep you can't admit. That's not part of the package, so it actually kind of makes perfect
00:43:46.080 sense that she would just completely ignore it until it goes away. So this is fall 2022.
00:43:50.840 She doesn't get the call to become Trump's press secretary until late 2024, early 2025 time frame.
00:43:57.160 So we have a two-year gap now to fill. As far as I can tell, she worked as the spokeswoman for a
00:44:04.020 Trump PAC in 2023, and then became the Trump campaign's national press secretary in 2024.
00:44:12.140 So one thing that I wanted to do as part of this episode was go through Caroline's Instagram
00:44:16.140 account and see how she's presenting herself on social media throughout this critical time period
00:44:21.040 where she's no longer running for Congress, but the central character to whom she has hitched
00:44:26.200 her career has not yet been reelected. She told Alex Clark in that 2023 interview that after the
00:44:33.620 hoebag ad debacle she hired a private investigator to cleanse her social media so this means something
00:44:40.680 very important that anything that we see on that social media account right now is something that
00:44:45.120 she wants us to see right this has been curated to portray a certain image so caro i'm going to
00:44:51.800 take you through three posts that jumped out at me and i basically want you to tell me if anything
00:44:57.400 jumps out at you kind of like what you notice how what they feel like to you how do you feel
00:45:03.980 So here's post number one.
00:45:06.060 Oh, okay, okay.
00:45:09.540 So I'm looking at a video of Kuka Caroline at a gym. 1.00
00:45:14.200 She's lifting some heavy weights, 1.00
00:45:16.680 and she's in like a little hot girl outfit. 1.00
00:45:19.860 Oh, my God.
00:45:20.640 Also, I just need to note,
00:45:21.860 I see that the song she chose for this
00:45:24.660 is Nina Simone's Feeling Good. 1.00
00:45:26.620 Get Nina Simone's name out of your fucking mouth, Caroline. 1.00
00:45:30.400 line. May Nina Simone's legacy never see this. Okay. Her caption says, advocating for the 1.00
00:45:36.780 conservative American values of faith, family, and freedom is my passion. It has also become
00:45:42.080 my career. Another one of my passions is fitness. I was an athlete growing up, played NCAA D2
00:45:49.140 college softball, D2 sucks, sorry, and tried my best to work out four to five days per week.
00:45:55.060 I believe it is a privilege to take care of ourselves, mentally and physically.
00:45:59.640 But unfortunately, most of the workout apparel brands that I have always loved have gone woke.
00:46:07.720 I could give a plethora of examples, but Nike recently using MEN, all caps, to advertise WOMEN'S, all caps, sports bras, really did it for me.
00:46:16.380 Vomit emoji. Devil emoji. 0.91
00:46:18.360 That's why I was pumped when I came across Yakima Apparel.
00:46:23.020 They are a pro-America, conservative workout apparel company based in the USA, and their
00:46:28.500 clothes are seriously amazing.
00:46:30.740 Their material is buttery soft.
00:46:32.840 Their quality truly fits and feels better than Lululemon.
00:46:36.280 Not to mention, their prices are even more affordable. 0.97
00:46:39.100 As corporate America goes woke and slams crap that we don't like down our throats, we should 0.92
00:46:44.520 spend our money elsewhere and support businesses that align with our values. 0.96
00:46:48.700 That's capitalism, baby!
00:46:50.500 use the link in my bio and discount code for caroline20 to get 20% off your order from
00:46:56.980 yakim apparel today i mean genuinely what were they thinking with that brand name yakim apparel
00:47:02.320 let's see unreal yakim conservative activewear brand oh there's riley gaines wow the third
00:47:09.020 person you see on their instagram account incredible incredible okay so um how would
00:47:14.600 you describe what what is that to you what did we just read here's where i'm gonna compliment
00:47:19.800 our girl. This is an exact moment of a woman who is at a crossroads and trying to hedge her bets
00:47:25.660 in a number of directions. I feel like you see her kind of hedging bets where it's like she's
00:47:30.420 trying to build her brand as a little yapper on the right, but she's also potentially keeping 1.00
00:47:36.100 the door open to be like a conservative Turning Point USA influencer. So this is the post of an 1.00
00:47:42.600 influencer. Yes, I would say. Okay. One thing that I want to point out about this is the irony
00:47:49.820 of her little screed against corporate America going woke and slamming things down our throats 0.79
00:47:57.940 while being like, this activewear brand is conservative. It's about faith and family.
00:48:04.940 These sports bras are about pro-America.
00:48:08.480 How is a sports bra pro-America?
00:48:11.220 It's the same thing.
00:48:13.020 It is woke in a different way, right?
00:48:15.620 It's ideological in the same way.
00:48:17.640 I also just want to note that they are a pro-America brand
00:48:21.820 that does not make their products in the United States.
00:48:26.540 Just because that also feels relevant.
00:48:31.220 Okay, post two.
00:48:32.480 What do we have here?
00:48:33.200 Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So we have a picture of Caroline at Lake Tahoe with a little influencer stance. She's in a little workout set, like a little blue workout set. And she's given a little like pose. And it says, if heaven were a place on earth, it would be here. Workout set by Booty by Brabants. Wait, Booty by Brabants. What are all these names?
00:48:58.620 Who fucking knows? 0.99
00:48:58.980 Dude. She wanted to be an influencer. 1.00
00:49:01.300 Okay. How about number three?
00:49:03.080 Explain what we've got here.
00:49:04.300 What is this image of?
00:49:05.500 Okay. This image feels right at home for me
00:49:08.500 because this is just like a classic image 0.83
00:49:10.300 of a blonde woman with a kind of like 0.64
00:49:12.440 marshland-y background. 0.71
00:49:13.820 It looks like she could be in New England.
00:49:15.140 There's an American flag behind her.
00:49:16.840 She's smiling.
00:49:17.800 It looks like it's like a 4th of July-esque
00:49:19.580 kind of photo.
00:49:20.340 And she has a baseball hat on that says, 1.00
00:49:22.200 Republicans are hotter. 0.98
00:49:24.140 And her caption says, 0.98
00:49:25.940 don't shoot the messenger hat by date right stuff the anti-woke dating app for conservatives only 1.00
00:49:32.640 two genders allowed okay so she was making like i would say like 5k a pop max for these little like 0.78
00:49:39.540 weird little ads and she was going to become an influencer if trump didn't win okay so she's 0.99
00:49:44.280 working for this trump pack trying to become press secretary and she is using her newfound
00:49:49.200 role in the political spotlight to do sponsored content much of it is just politicized consumer 0.99
00:49:55.800 Buy from this sports bra brand because Nike uses men to advertise women's clothes.
00:50:01.460 Join this right-wing dating app because Republicans are hotter.
00:50:06.400 Obviously, she's not disclosing that any of this is paid.
00:50:09.000 There is no acknowledgment that these are paid partnerships, but they are clearly ads. 0.85
00:50:13.720 She presents herself online like an influencer. 0.93
00:50:17.400 It's bikini pictures. 0.55
00:50:18.900 It's ads for products.
00:50:20.240 It's pictures with her kid.
00:50:21.660 It's pictures of her at work.
00:50:22.960 It's pictures of her traveling to fancy locations. 1.00
00:50:25.800 I went one by fucking one. 0.98
00:50:28.460 I clicked through 242 posts on her Instagram account. 0.97
00:50:31.880 And something that I noticed is that around the 2023 time frame,
00:50:38.080 you started to see like a surprising amount of designer gear in these photos,
00:50:42.800 especially again for how much she plays up this like working class, 1.00
00:50:46.200 small business family angle. 1.00
00:50:48.060 Gucci shoes, Gucci handbags.
00:50:50.040 I counted five different Louis Vuitton bags, Louis Vuitton scarves,
00:50:54.100 at least one Chanel bag.
00:50:55.800 And just for context, Louis Vuitton bags are thousands of dollars.
00:50:59.620 Chanel bags can be $10,000.
00:51:01.680 There is safely tens of thousands of dollars worth of designer items in these photos,
00:51:06.220 again, beginning after she lost the congressional race in 2022.
00:51:10.680 This is notable to me because if you think about her career at this point, right,
00:51:14.560 she had worked an unpaid internship, then worked a paid job for, what, maybe two years,
00:51:19.540 one to two years on the Hill, then ran for Congress for a year.
00:51:23.400 Again, like you're raising money, but like that's not quote unquote paid.
00:51:27.780 Well, there is that missing $330,000.
00:51:30.700 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:51:31.840 Well, it's possible that her new boyfriend, this 50 something real estate developer, was buying all of this for her.
00:51:37.660 But again, tens of thousands of dollars worth of goods for an early 20 something who has mostly up until this point worked unpaid internships and like run for a congressional campaign.
00:51:46.300 So the word that kept coming up, both from people praising Caroline and people critiquing her, was performance. 0.71
00:51:56.140 And then, of course, she becomes press secretary.
00:51:58.620 All of this loyalty pays off.
00:52:01.380 But one thing that I think a lot of people probably don't realize, and I didn't realize until I did this episode,
00:52:07.560 is that she's basically executing the communication strategy of Trump's comms director, Stephen Chung.
00:52:16.300 You don't really see Stephen Chung if you are not following this stuff closely. He is not as
00:52:22.760 visible a player in Trump world as Caroline is. But he's this big, middle-aged Chinese-American
00:52:30.620 man. Are you familiar with Chung? No, I'm not. Not at all. I'm actually kind of surprised I
00:52:35.880 haven't heard that name. Uh-huh. Yeah. So there's some good New Yorker reporting on his confrontational
00:52:41.020 style. It's a rhetorical approach that's designed for breaking through noise. So you get the sense
00:52:46.760 that he's in constant conversation with memes, like the way that he releases these statements,
00:52:51.740 but even by the standards of modern American politics, his rhetoric can be shocking. He issued
00:52:57.380 an official campaign statement at one point that read, it's downright bewildering why Ron DeSantis
00:53:02.520 would cuck himself in front of the entire country who clearly doesn't want him as president.
00:53:07.740 I mean, in his defense, it was downright bewildering, the way that Ron DeSantis.
00:53:13.960 In his defense.
00:53:14.840 In Stephen Chung's defense.
00:53:16.600 That is funny.
00:53:20.180 Go on.
00:53:21.040 Okay, I'm liking what you're putting down, Stephen Chung.
00:53:23.840 Go on.
00:53:24.640 You've got my attention.
00:53:25.900 In another, he referenced the Trump campaign's theory that DeSantis' signature cowboy boots are actually high heels.
00:53:32.700 You've got me hook, line, and sinker.
00:53:34.760 Go on.
00:53:35.420 Ron shuffled his feet and gingerly walked across the debate set like a 10-year-old girl who had
00:53:40.920 just raided her mom's closet and discovered heels for the first time. These are official
00:53:45.340 campaign statements from the Trump campaign. So he's like alt-right Suzanne Lambert.
00:53:50.380 Yes! Okay, here's another one. I'm going to have you read this one. This is from
00:53:53.860 The New Yorker reporting. In a comment to the New York Post,
00:53:58.280 Chung called DeSantis a doll, a desperate eunuch. By comparison, his statements about
00:54:04.960 Nikki Haley were kinder. Quote, it's clear to see that Haley's campaign is just one giant grift
00:54:10.260 to either build her name ID for life after politics or to audition for a cable news contributor 0.93
00:54:14.980 contract. At another point, he called her, quote, an embarrassment to herself, adding, everything
00:54:20.860 she's ever achieved will be thrown into a dumpster fire that she lit herself. How can we channel this
00:54:26.520 man for the left? Come on. So his relationship with the media and like the MAGA approach more
00:54:31.740 broadly is a little bit like pro wrestling which i think is fitting because he actually used to be
00:54:36.260 the communications director for the ufc okay outwardly he complains relentlessly about the
00:54:42.600 mainstream media and trains your average trump fan basically not to believe anything they read
00:54:49.080 anywhere but like newsmax or fox news like they're constantly hitting this message over and over
00:54:54.640 again caroline does the same thing in like almost every single press briefing you see her fulfilling 0.54
00:54:58.840 this strategy pretty committedly. But behind the scenes, he apparently is like this affable,
00:55:07.640 nice guy who has really good relationships with the reporters. I'm going to have you read
00:55:13.080 something else from this story. Now that the general election season is underway,
00:55:17.780 a number of reporters I spoke to said that the Trump operation has, in some ways,
00:55:22.160 been easier to deal with than the Biden campaign. The Biden people have a different expectation
00:55:27.280 from the press, the newspaper reporter said. If you write something critical about them,
00:55:31.860 it's always like, but Trump, or are you on Trump's side? Similarly, the mainstream news reporter
00:55:37.600 said that the Biden team cannot take a punch. They're always furious over these tiny things
00:55:42.380 because they kind of expect you to be on their side, like we're fighting for reproductive rights
00:55:46.720 for women. The Trump people don't expect a ton of fair stories. There's a certain type of story
00:55:51.320 they'll get mad at, but they also can just take a lot of hits. Both reporters emphasize that they
00:55:56.700 have written many stories that were critical of Trump. You can have decent relationships with
00:56:00.700 Trump people if you tell them what you're doing and you're transparent about your reporting process
00:56:04.840 and they have a chance to respond, the newspaper reporter said. That's super interesting.
00:56:09.980 This was a theme that came up a lot, that the Biden White House was way more sensitive to
00:56:15.080 negative press, that they hosted far fewer press briefings, that they were like relatively closed
00:56:20.360 off to the media. And then just one more from a recent Atlantic profile on Chung.
00:56:27.680 Despite that insistence, Chung has now realized Steve Bannon's dream of weaponized comms,
00:56:33.840 ushering in a new era of political messaging in Washington. Gone are the mild stumbles of
00:56:38.740 Covfefe. Oh, R.A.P. Long live Covfefe. And the memery of Sean Spicer retreating into the White
00:56:45.080 house shrubbery. Trump has reverted to his own killer instincts, assailing his enemies with all
00:56:50.120 caps truth social rants. Don't expect anyone to rein him in. When times get tough, you don't take
00:56:56.020 a step back. You double down, Chung said, when I asked whether Trump ever... Where have you heard
00:56:59.860 that before? Uh, Caroline, Chung said, when I asked whether Trump ever goes too far. And if
00:57:06.160 that doesn't work, you triple down. The Chungian tactic of instant escalation is, for him and his 0.98
00:57:11.540 allies a win-win strategy. It helps quench the base's thirst for lib owning and gets a ton of 0.97
00:57:17.120 eyeballs. If Chung calls Tim Walz a cuck versus if he says Walz is incorrect because of X, Y,
00:57:23.240 and Z, which one is going to get more attention? A senior White House official who asked for
00:57:27.460 anonymity in order to speak more candidly told me. The method is brutal, but Chung and his allies
00:57:33.040 believe effective. Yeah, it's really fucking effective. This is where I get like kind of 0.99
00:57:38.000 annoyed because I feel like there is still this argument on the left of they're mean and we can't
00:57:43.920 be mean or like they're so aggressive and it's just like right but they have learned how to speak
00:57:49.040 in the age of social media and there are ways to do that in a different way I mean they're right
00:57:54.300 that is correct that is how they're getting eyeballs you're gonna love the conclusion of 0.98
00:57:59.000 this episode time to get bitchy so in that sense we can think of Caroline like the human white label 1.00
00:58:06.280 of this strategy. She is the chosen face and voice for public delivery of Chung's message. 0.95
00:58:11.940 It's more palatable coming from like an attractive blonde white 27 year old than a middle aged 0.92
00:58:19.260 Chinese man who is kind of behind the scenes just being like a desperate eunuch. So let's talk about 1.00
00:58:25.540 her career as press secretary. Trump is apparently very happy with her, which is a strong departure
00:58:32.620 shirt from press secretary's past. And I think we do need to step back for a moment to understand
00:58:38.120 what's really going on here. So in Trump's first term, they basically briefed the press once a
00:58:43.440 month. You had Sean Spicer, then Sarah Huckabee Sanders, then Stephanie Grisham, who didn't hold
00:58:49.400 any briefings because she said that she chose not to publicly brief the press because, quote, 0.92
00:58:54.260 unlike her boss, she didn't want to stand behind the podium and lie. Then Kayleigh McEnany, the
00:58:59.680 press secretary who hired Caroline as her assistant. Now, at the time, during Trump's first term,
00:59:05.620 The Guardian reported that the press secretary position had become redundant because Trump was
00:59:12.760 so active on social media sharing updates himself. Now, bear in mind that he still does this. He is
00:59:20.200 constantly posting those all-caps messages on Truth Social, the social media platform that he
00:59:26.980 started, which means that their strategy this go around to have Caroline go out there practically
00:59:34.060 every day and badger reporters is very clearly serving a different role for them. We cannot and
00:59:42.220 should not ever think about her role in this political theater as that of a typical press
00:59:48.560 secretary designed to share information with the public. In an interview with Axios that Caroline
00:59:55.520 did the same day she did the Kate Maxx running video that went viral. She says, quote, President
01:00:00.900 Trump speaks directly to the people. He puts statements out directly. He dictates them to his
01:00:07.080 staff. And she emphasized over and over again how transparent he is. And in order to do this,
01:00:12.820 she says he's putting out statements daily. So again, you see this conflation of speed
01:00:17.820 and frequency with transparency and openness. It's also just funny that she's acknowledging
01:00:24.560 the quiet part out loud where she's like Trump is doing the job that I should be doing and it's
01:00:29.340 a kind of implication of like oh no I'm doing something else exactly so there's this constant
01:00:34.360 level of access and constant flow of information that they're basically saying is like synonymous
01:00:40.000 with authenticity and honesty which is an attitude that's frankly very typical of the social media
01:00:46.260 age and like very kind of classic influencer playbook so she lies with an almost impressively
01:00:53.940 pathological level of confidence.
01:00:56.380 She is far more comfortable than Trump's previous five press secretaries with performing all
01:01:00.880 of the insane logical gymnastics required to sell his messaging.
01:01:06.000 Of her first day on the job, the New York Times reported that Caroline got behind the
01:01:10.340 podium and made comments about how everyone was going to need to adapt to the, quote,
01:01:14.660 new media landscape.
01:01:16.600 She said they would need to make room for the content creators who she was going to
01:01:20.240 be inviting to the press briefings.
01:01:22.260 And her attitude behind the podium is often impatient and snarky, sometimes downright hostile.
01:01:28.680 But again, Politico reported she's friendly with reporters interpersonally behind the scenes.
01:01:35.160 She talks about this to Megyn Kelly.
01:01:36.800 She says, off the record, the media will admit that they appreciate that they're being given so much access.
01:01:44.080 They appreciate the transparency, quote unquote transparency.
01:01:47.000 They appreciate my preparation. 0.97
01:01:48.900 Even if she's fucking lying, she's giving them content. She's giving them things to report on. She's giving them stories, even if the story is, look at how Caroline Leavitt is misrepresenting what the administration is doing. That in itself is a story. 0.98
01:02:04.840 I have like almost a pet theory that especially these younger generations, like when we're talking about the manosphere and like young men getting pulled into these worlds and like someone like Caroline Levitt being so young and so adept at this new sort of language and new social media landscape.
01:02:19.940 It's not just that they're savvy with technology.
01:02:23.500 I think that when you have generations that have grown up in a time period where, A, almost their whole world exists online, and B, they're very aware that public policy is very severed from how they feel.
01:02:35.760 And I think that that leads to apathy, sure, but I also think it just leads to this feeling of the whole world's a video game.
01:02:42.560 All these people kind of engage and she'll lie, but her heart rate isn't going up. 0.65
01:02:46.420 I remember Sean Spicer would get all fucking red in the face and would get, like, so stressed out. 0.90
01:02:52.500 I'm sure she feels totally fine. 0.97
01:02:54.420 Yeah, it's a game and it's also all for show.
01:02:56.740 Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:02:57.580 It's not real.
01:02:58.620 Right.
01:02:58.980 So, to them, it's not real.
01:03:01.100 On the Megyn Kelly show, they play a clip of her interacting with an NBC reporter who essentially tries to fact check her in real time.
01:03:08.600 And she just—
01:03:09.860 Difficult.
01:03:10.340 It's genuinely jarring to hear her in this conversation from earlier that same day to how she's talking to Meghan.
01:03:18.380 So you're going to hear her describing how good she is at her job up against the clip of her arguing with the reporter.
01:03:25.840 Preparation that goes into my briefings and everybody on our team, by the way, who goes out to the cameras and speaks.
01:03:33.100 We have great policy experts who are great spokespeople for the president, and they appreciate
01:03:39.480 the information that they're being given.
01:03:42.100 They're also exhausted, by the way, because we are doing so much.
01:03:45.280 And not even in like a wussy, sad little way.
01:03:47.360 Like, they must be exhausted.
01:03:48.460 It's just nonstop.
01:03:49.420 It's insane.
01:03:50.220 Yeah.
01:03:50.400 So who's your least favorite?
01:03:53.900 Well, I did have a bit of a tiff this morning outside with our friend Peter Alexander at NBC
01:04:00.420 News.
01:04:01.380 So it was great.
01:04:02.320 We'll drop in a clip of it where he was really pressing you on whether there's going to be
01:04:07.580 criminal prosecutions for this alleged fraud and the waste fraud and abuse.
01:04:11.520 According to an IG report from the Social Security Administration, there was $71 billion
01:04:16.780 worth of fraud in one single fiscal year that we know about.
01:04:20.520 And so that is a lot of fraud, Peter.
01:04:22.980 To be clear, that $71 billion was from 2015 to 2022.
01:04:27.060 So it wasn't in just one year.
01:04:28.660 And it was $71 billion.
01:04:30.400 But it wasn't in one year.
01:04:31.700 over multiple years from 2015 to 2022 so are you defending 71 billion dollars in fraud peter that's
01:04:38.580 a lot of money why is the media so against cutting waste fraud and abuse from the government i don't
01:04:43.460 get it i just want to ask we won't be deterred we will not be deterred from people like you and the
01:04:48.580 press that's something that wasn't true which is you said that they have found um before that they
01:04:53.380 believe there have been tens of millions of people who are receiving money who are dead on the social
01:04:58.260 security list. The same report that you referred to said that almost none of those individuals are
01:05:03.780 Peter, did you watch the full clip of the interview that I did when I said that?
01:05:07.860 And I said there are a lot of unanswered questions and we suspect there could be
01:05:13.300 tens of millions of people. So you just said what I said is not true. In fact, it was true.
01:05:19.220 That's a suspicion that this administration has and we're committed to finding out the truth.
01:05:22.980 It perplexes me and also infuriates me why the media continues to make excuses for our government spending.
01:05:29.940 OK, so he fact checks her in real time, right?
01:05:34.600 She says verbatim in this back and forth, 71 billion dollars worth of fraud.
01:05:41.480 And then she emphasizes and that's in one single fiscal year.
01:05:45.300 And Peter goes, well, to be clear, that was over basically seven years.
01:05:50.280 OK, so she's off by a factor of seven.
01:05:52.180 And she's like, whatever, moving on. 0.86
01:05:54.340 What does she do?
01:05:55.260 She goes, are you defending $71 billion worth of fraud, Peter?
01:06:02.400 So, yeah, it's maddening.
01:06:04.640 I think what's most incredible about it is the fact that this is a clip that the Megyn Kelly show is showing because they think it makes them look good is very telling.
01:06:15.020 The obstinance with which they refuse to acknowledge their own mistakes is the communications strategy.
01:06:21.020 The strategy is being loudly wrong and then refusing to back down from it.
01:06:26.060 And so she is, in her own way, very much channeling this Trump ethos.
01:06:29.420 She's brash. 0.59
01:06:30.100 She's confrontational. 0.52
01:06:31.300 She told Meghan that she speaks from the heart without notes.
01:06:35.180 She is performing for a much larger audience than the people in that room.
01:06:40.540 She's doing it for the MAGA base watching at home.
01:06:43.940 I try to be empathetic to people who voted for Trump because there's no other option.
01:06:49.120 This is the country we live in. And I find it more interesting, generally speaking, to be like, yeah, I mean, a large, the popular vote. A lot of people voted for Trump. But most people who voted for Trump are not people who are watching the news. And I think that that's really important. The vast majority of people who just are voters in America are just people who are like collecting however much information they have, usually voting along party lines. Some people go back and forth.
01:07:12.040 But the group of people who are in this MAGA world of following all this content, watching the Megyn Kelly show on Sirius XM radio, like, you've got to seek that out. Most people are not watching Caroline Levitt's press interviews.
01:07:26.600 So I feel comfortable saying this, that for the people who are watching these interviews and going, oh, sick burn, we've got a group of the population who just are not interested in being smart.
01:07:40.840 You are watching it for pro wrestling. It's dumb. And it's very obviously dumb here. 1.00
01:07:45.500 And I think you either don't care about that or you actually don't understand how obviously stupid this is. 0.99
01:07:52.580 And I'm not trying to create, like, a moral superiority to intelligence, but I'm just saying factually speaking, like, for the people who are watching this, they are not concerned with facts. 0.99
01:08:01.060 That is just, like, not a thing they're concerned with.
01:08:03.280 And so I think that we sometimes miss the forest for the trees by being like, well, she's lying.
01:08:07.720 And it's, like, right, because it doesn't matter if she's lying or not.
01:08:10.660 They're watching for entertainment. 0.98
01:08:11.800 The people who watch these cannot be caring about facts because that video was so obviously her getting caught in a very obvious mistruth, and it doesn't fucking matter. 0.85
01:08:21.820 Before this administration, did you ever see clips on TikTok of the press secretary? 0.80
01:08:26.640 No, no, no.
01:08:27.540 Do you now? Do you regularly see clips of her now?
01:08:30.380 Now that she's in the Trump administration, for sure, I feel like she's a focal point.
01:08:34.220 Yep, that's the point. That's the strategy, right?
01:08:36.560 Is send her out there to say inflammatory things, to obstinately lie, and then be like, whatever, triple down. 1.00
01:08:44.220 It's the pro-wrestling.
01:08:45.480 Peter Baker, the New York Times chief White House correspondent, said,
01:08:48.760 They don't view the briefing room as a way to impart information.
01:08:52.020 They don't even view the briefing room as a way to shape reporters' stories.
01:08:55.040 They view the briefing room as a theater for the MAGA audience.
01:08:59.100 Yes.
01:08:59.800 That's my exact point.
01:09:00.720 We're like, I think that we're talking a lot right now about being like,
01:09:03.200 how do we get facts to this group of people who enjoy the song?
01:09:06.740 That's over.
01:09:07.540 Facts are done.
01:09:08.560 And I think it misunderstands the point.
01:09:10.880 They're not watching it to get news, and they're not watching it to understand things.
01:09:15.120 They're watching it because it's entertaining.
01:09:16.880 So the more I studied Caroline Levitt, the more I began to see her as the Trump-era avatar of how politics and media have just fully collapsed into one another. 0.98
01:09:26.960 First, there is this deranged emphasis on loyalty.
01:09:30.220 More than one story I read cited her embrace of Trump after January 6th as the moment when her fortune was sealed.
01:09:37.260 At a time when they were clearly in the wrong, right?
01:09:40.120 Her comfort with spin-doctoring that event to the point of unrecognizability
01:09:44.380 was what revealed her to Steve Bannon to be, quote, true MAGA.
01:09:49.540 Then there's the pathological, shameless confidence with which she lies.
01:09:53.800 She gets behind the podium and delivers comments, 0.94
01:09:55.800 kind of like a Fox News contributor.
01:09:57.220 Like, the style of her delivery is very similar to that agitated, angry, argumentative...
01:10:06.220 It feels very Ben Shapiro.
01:10:07.820 Mm-hmm.
01:10:08.120 you can tell she's really been like trained in the right-wing media ecosystem she doesn't care 1.00
01:10:14.700 if she's wrong she will wriggle her way out of every confrontation and then finally there's her
01:10:19.500 digital self her self-presentation online part of that are the clips that again are designed for 1.00
01:10:25.520 virality the way that she bitches at the reporters it's designed to make people mad but then there's 1.00
01:10:32.500 also her instagram account which a lot of it frankly reads a little bit like that liberal 1.00
01:10:37.600 feminist-style, unabashed bikini photos, semi-nudity, clear body checking. Like, 0.94
01:10:43.700 she's, like, clearly showing off her body. Pictures where she wants you to be like,
01:10:48.220 wow, she's hot. And 10 years ago, I think that would have seemed really inappropriate for a
01:10:53.680 person in her position to have an online presence like that. But now you get the sense that it is
01:10:58.400 actually part of her job to appeal to the base in this way and to piss off liberals. That's why I
01:11:04.320 was saying that I think the fact that she has like a 60-year-old real estate developer husband
01:11:08.160 is almost in some ways part of that ethos. It gets people mad. She's a circus performer. She's like,
01:11:15.700 I mean, I'm thinking about like a Russian circus with a bear with a little like fucking 1.00
01:11:18.840 beach ball on its nose. It makes it hard, but not impossible to insult them or to make fun of them 1.00
01:11:25.660 because they have taken on such inhuman characteristics, which is total resilience
01:11:30.920 and lack of concern with how the world views them.
01:11:35.340 One really critical piece of all this, in my filter bubble,
01:11:38.820 everything that I see about Caroline Levitt on Instagram and TikTok 0.99
01:11:41.360 is like this fucking crazy person. 1.00
01:11:44.600 People fucking dunk on her. 1.00
01:11:46.200 She's a liar. She's a gaslighter, you know? 1.00
01:11:49.820 The right loves her.
01:11:52.860 Really?
01:11:54.000 In part because the left hates her so much.
01:11:57.020 Sure. 0.99
01:11:57.300 They fucking love that she, quote, triggers the libs. 0.99
01:12:02.100 I'm going to just give you some words that they use to describe her. 1.00
01:12:04.900 She's bold. 1.00
01:12:06.220 She's gutsy.
01:12:07.780 They like that she works hard.
01:12:09.680 They like that she puts on a show.
01:12:11.200 They like that she doesn't back down from the liberal fake news media.
01:12:15.360 They actually view the fact that the media is asking her hard questions and she's, like, swatting at them like a cat.
01:12:22.260 They love that.
01:12:23.760 That's not proof to them that she's evading questions
01:12:27.820 or not answering things honestly or lying. 0.84
01:12:30.320 That's like, oh, she's hardcore. 1.00
01:12:32.200 She doesn't take their shit. 1.00
01:12:34.060 That's the narrative that is being built around her on the right. 1.00
01:12:37.820 Of course, they like that she's young and blonde and pretty. 1.00
01:12:41.060 But in short, they like her because she is a troll. 1.00
01:12:45.020 She's such a troll. 1.00
01:12:46.020 This is from a blog post from fucking Rudy Giuliani. 1.00
01:12:51.000 And I'm going to have you read it. 1.00
01:12:52.580 All these fucking octogenarians going from six to midnight for this 27-year-old. Okay. 0.99
01:12:58.540 From the moment she stepped into the press room, Caroline has been a warrior for the
01:13:03.180 America First movement. She doesn't just hold the line. She advances it, fearlessly confronting a 0.83
01:13:09.400 press corps determined to distort the truth. The mainstream media, with their billionaire
01:13:13.980 puppet masters pulling the strings L-O-fucking-L, have made it their mission to demonize 0.96
01:13:19.740 President Trump and his agenda. But Caroline Leavitt is their worst nightmare, a sharp, 0.99
01:13:24.740 principled, and unflappable communicator who refuses to let their narratives go unchallenged.
01:13:29.800 In these first 100 days, we've seen Trump's vision take shape. A booming economy. When was
01:13:35.100 this written? Secure borders and a foreign policy that puts America first. Didn't we just find out
01:13:40.460 that Cotter just gave Trump personally $400 million? Caroline has been the voice of that
01:13:45.240 vision, ensuring the American people hear the truth about this administration's achievements.
01:13:51.220 Whether she's touting historic job growth, debunking lies about immigration policy,
01:13:56.400 or exposing the hypocrisy of the left, Caroline delivers with clarity and courage. She's not just
01:14:02.100 a press secretary. Well, she isn't a press secretary. She's a patriot who understands 0.88
01:14:06.040 the stakes of this fight. I've seen a lot of talent in my years in public service,
01:14:10.460 but Caroline Leavitt is in a league of her own. She's a reminder that the America First movement
01:14:14.980 isn't just about one man.
01:14:16.900 It's about a new generation
01:14:18.180 rising to reclaim our nation's greatness. 0.99
01:14:20.640 Good fucking Lord. 0.99
01:14:21.940 As President Trump leads us forward, 0.99
01:14:24.140 Caroline will continue to be his fiercest advocate,
01:14:26.880 a tireless defender of truth
01:14:28.340 and an inspiration to millions.
01:14:30.320 To Caroline, I say, keep fighting.
01:14:33.000 America is watching and we're proud.
01:14:35.360 Wow.
01:14:35.660 The bluster, the obvious lack of experience,
01:14:39.280 the almost impressive total disregard
01:14:41.040 for objective reality,
01:14:42.700 the emotional appeals to the issues
01:14:44.500 that Fox has pavloved its base into reacting strongly to.
01:14:47.940 Through this interpretation,
01:14:49.660 the Trump administration's decisions,
01:14:52.200 which range from the absurd to the cruel,
01:14:54.880 can only be understood in the same language
01:14:57.140 of internet influence and attention capture,
01:14:59.480 which is that they are trolling.
01:15:02.580 Every move they make is designed to tap into that polarity,
01:15:07.140 to trigger the libs, to fight the mainstream media.
01:15:11.060 They're shadowboxing with this, like, imaginary enemy,
01:15:13.920 which is basically any media outlet that isn't Fox or Breitbart.
01:15:17.940 And what does a troll want?
01:15:20.420 They want a reaction.
01:15:22.260 They want an opponent.
01:15:23.960 So they perceive the reactions from people who are aghast at the cruelty
01:15:28.240 of essentially kidnapping a 10-year-old American citizen
01:15:31.220 who has stage four cancer to the outrage at Carolines,
01:15:35.060 just obviously lying, as proof that they're winning.
01:15:38.520 Because trolls can't exist in a vacuum.
01:15:40.720 They need the affirmation and the recognition from the group that they exist to antagonize in order to survive.
01:15:47.660 The attention is the end goal.
01:15:49.420 Yes. I think one really striking example here of kind of the stakes of this and like, I don't know,
01:15:58.100 something that I saw as being very indicative of how this works was Kilmar Obrego Garcia.
01:16:05.460 So we're going to watch the clip of Caroline trying to save face when the country erupted that an innocent man had been deported.
01:16:13.040 And the Supreme Court said, you can't do that, right?
01:16:16.120 You have to bring him back. 0.91
01:16:17.280 And then they send Caroline out to the press to be like, um, well, so here's her defending the actions of the administration. 0.97
01:16:25.100 Still going off the El Salvador questions.
01:16:27.600 Yesterday in the Oval Office, administration officials made it very clear that El Salvador is responsible for Mr. Obrado Garcia.
01:16:34.340 Yet El Salvador's president said we're not going to do anything with him.
01:16:38.500 So my question is, who is responsible for this man and where he's going to end up?
01:16:43.040 Well, no. First of all, President Bukele said that he is not going to smuggle a foreign terrorist
01:16:48.660 back into the United States of America, as many in this room in the Democrat Party seemingly want him to do.
01:16:55.840 Abrego Garcia was a foreign terrorist. 0.80
01:16:58.960 He is an MS-13 gang member. 0.97
01:17:01.380 He was engaged in human trafficking.
01:17:03.420 He illegally came into our country.
01:17:06.680 And so deporting him back to El Salvador was always going to be the end result.
01:17:11.780 There is never going to be a world in which this is an individual who's going to live a peaceful life in Maryland 0.50
01:17:16.880 because he is a foreign terrorist and a MS-13 gang member.
01:17:21.060 Not only have we confirmed that, President Bukele yesterday in the Oval Office confirmed that as well. 0.57
01:17:26.720 So he went back to his home country where he will face consequences for his gang affiliation and his engagement in human trafficking. 0.59
01:17:34.800 I love how she's like, not only have we confirmed it, but the man that we have paid to confirm it on our behalf has also confirmed it.
01:17:41.300 So what more do you want?
01:17:43.280 What do you guys want from us?
01:17:45.300 Bear in mind, right, that the U.S. Supreme Court case, Nome v. Abrego Garcia, has a passage on the first page that reads, quote,
01:17:53.460 The United States acknowledges that Abrego Garcia was subject to a withholding order forbidding his removal to El Salvador and that the removal to El Salvador was therefore illegal.
01:18:04.460 The United States represents that the removal to El Salvador was the result of an administrative error. 0.99
01:18:11.060 They don't give a shit. 1.00
01:18:12.280 They don't give a shit. 1.00
01:18:12.920 Another branch of government is confirming to the fucking Supreme Court that it was an accident. 0.99
01:18:19.160 He has no criminal record in the U.S. or El Salvador, and the, quote, evidence that the 0.97
01:18:24.980 administration and that, you know, Noam brings against him as proof that he's MS-13 was a Chicago
01:18:31.020 Bulls hat and hoodie and an uncorroborated allegation from a confidential informant that
01:18:37.520 He belonged to an MS-13, quote, click in New York.
01:18:41.600 Confidential informant.
01:18:43.120 It's like Caroline Leavitt with a hoodie over her head.
01:18:47.260 There's been so much made of the fact that
01:18:50.920 Abrego Garcia's wife had a warrant,
01:18:53.700 I think, taken out against him at some point for domestic violence.
01:18:56.100 And it's like, okay, cool.
01:18:57.220 We care about domestic violence.
01:18:58.680 Let's do every cop in America next.
01:19:00.900 I'm glad that we're talking about this now.
01:19:02.760 It seems like you guys really seem to care about domestic violence all of a sudden.
01:19:05.700 They're also like, but we are going to end no-fault divorce, though.
01:19:09.120 Right.
01:19:10.140 Basically, what she's doing here is what you do on social media
01:19:13.080 when you're an influencer trying to save face.
01:19:15.160 You go out and you say, well, this is my side of the story.
01:19:16.820 This is my truth, right? 0.99
01:19:18.900 That's not how the fucking law works. 0.98
01:19:21.100 The United States, the gnome side of gnome versus Abrego Garcia, 0.99
01:19:24.840 admitted that his deportation was an administrative error.
01:19:28.260 But what is Caroline Levitt doing? 1.00
01:19:30.000 She's doubling down. 1.00
01:19:31.560 She's tripling down.
01:19:33.240 What did she say to Alex Clark?
01:19:34.460 You never apologize.
01:19:35.700 you go on offense. That is what we're dealing with. So here's where this Caroline Levitt as
01:19:41.660 White House chief influencer becomes quite literal. Beginning in early May, she started 0.98
01:19:46.880 holding influencer-specific briefings. In her opening remarks, she said,
01:19:52.420 Tens of millions of Americans are now turning to social media and independent media outlets
01:19:57.320 to consume their news, and we are embracing that change, not ignoring it. All journalists,
01:20:02.940 outlets, and voices have a seat at the table now, and you being here today for this briefing
01:20:08.160 proves that. Thoughts? Am I worried about the future? Yes. Do I think that the internet is
01:20:15.680 basically like a bull with five different fucking, like, stab wounds on it facing us down and we have 0.99
01:20:20.900 no weapons? Yes. Do I also think that what they are doing is something we should have done a 0.99
01:20:26.640 fucking decade ago? Yes. Like, I'm surprised that they haven't done this already. It's 0.98
01:20:32.120 very smart of them, I think. Interesting. So I'm actually going to have you read this
01:20:39.360 headline from the Associated Press from January 2024. Oh God, did Biden have influencers and I
01:20:47.340 didn't even know about it? God damn it. Social media influencers descend on the White House 1.00
01:20:51.640 where Biden calls them the new source of news. Great. Just read like the first three paragraphs
01:20:57.720 for me. Oh my God. This is, I feel sick. I want to pass out. Okay. Social media influencers got
01:21:04.240 the royal treatment at the White House on Wednesday as President Joe Biden gave a nod
01:21:08.040 to their ability to hold sway with millions of loyal followers. The White House played host to
01:21:12.860 a group of more than a hundred influencers, also known as content creators across a range of media
01:21:17.900 platforms from chefs and makeup artists to fitness gurus and medical students to talk about issues
01:21:23.020 including mental health, pay equity, and the abuse of artificial intelligence. Biden stopped
01:21:27.680 by to tell the influencers gathered in the Indian Treaty Room in the White House complex,
01:21:32.480 the fact is, you are the future. Well, so, okay, I have a question.
01:21:37.420 Who were those influencers? Do we know who those people were?
01:21:42.020 Oh, I don't know. It was actually a surprise for me when I looked this up and found this,
01:21:46.160 because the point that I'm trying to make is we have seen this on the left. Influencer briefings,
01:21:51.600 It's not new. I don't think we were as brazen about it. But Democratic politicians and representatives also show a preference for influencers that are favorable to their side. And so this whole influencers are the future of news is sort of a bipartisan stance at this point. They're just better at it.
01:22:10.060 You know what I find really interesting? And maybe this is like an interesting reflection of the algorithm. I am shocked that my algorithm never served that to me, that I never saw influencers at like a White House press room, like for the Biden administration.
01:22:26.880 The spoiler here is that I think this is going to backfire on them, and we're going to talk about why. But first, I think we should learn what kind of brilliant journalism is going on in this space. So, Caro, please read from some Financial Times coverage of the first briefing.
01:22:45.760 Oh, I can't wait.
01:22:47.880 I'm kind of a nerd.
01:22:49.420 Oh, yeah.
01:22:50.580 I'm kind of a nerd when it comes to reporting.
01:22:53.160 I'm the policy-type nerd, said a woman to White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt
01:22:58.360 at a briefing on Monday before asking, in notable policy nerdish fashion,
01:23:03.400 so what direction do you advise me to go into?
01:23:05.800 It would have been a strange question for a reporter, whose job it is to hold power to account,
01:23:10.400 rather than ask power how to propagate its message.
01:23:13.460 To put to Levitt at a press briefing.
01:23:14.900 But this was no reporter. Oh, God.
01:23:16.680 It was Cambry Nelson, a, quote, grassroots activist turned social media influencer and ambassador for the esteemed, quote, American First Policy Institute, with more than 600,000 followers on X.
01:23:29.280 Oh, my God. When you have 600,000 followers on X, then you're like...
01:23:34.040 You're pregnant with Musk's 15th baby.
01:23:36.600 Yeah, you are one of the incubators.
01:23:38.900 He's about to slide in those DMs, Cambry. You better watch out, baby.
01:23:41.600 a woman who got most upset last year after she stopped being able to see the moon in the sky 1.00
01:23:47.980 wait what a woman a woman who got most upset last year after she stopped being like that's so dumb 0.96
01:23:55.100 that can't possibly be correct let me go back oh my god no that's correct you read that properly 0.94
01:24:00.140 keep going oh my god oh my god why is everyone silent about this she posted on x they're quiet
01:24:09.120 about the white sun, too. What? A reference to a conspiracy theory that argues that the sun has
01:24:15.860 changed color in recent years. Oh, my God. Nor, in fact, was this a press briefing. No, this was a
01:24:23.820 brand new propaganda dissemination session. Sorry, a new media briefing, as the official White House
01:24:30.260 YouTube channel described it, that was held on three consecutive days this week. Wow, props to
01:24:34.820 them for calling it a propaganda dissemination. Financial Times is like a British pub. So like
01:24:39.860 their coverage of this stuff is a little more like no nonsense. It's kind of an obvious clap
01:24:45.300 back to the idea that all the American media just like hates Trump and is just liberal. It's like,
01:24:51.320 well, then how come all the other news outlets all over the world are covering it in the same way?
01:24:55.840 Do you believe that globally? Yeah. And it's also funny. I don't I think we've actually had a lot
01:25:01.160 of really great reporting over the last six months. So I don't want to like shit on reporting 0.97
01:25:05.880 in America overall. I think there have been a lot of really wonderful efforts to report this 0.97
01:25:09.460 administration. But I also am noting that I don't think the New York Times or the Washington Post
01:25:14.240 would have just called that a propaganda dissemination session. And I think that there
01:25:18.180 is like this kind of, again, whatever you want to call it, it's like the newspapers in the U.S.
01:25:23.320 have to pander to the U.S. audience. And there is this fear of coming off as woke or like coming
01:25:29.040 off as anti-Trump that really clouds what's taking place here like that woman is fucking crazy and 0.99
01:25:35.260 she is the one who is getting press credentials to the White House I mean Laura Loomer in Trump's 0.99
01:25:39.700 ear yeah woke Marxist Pope so the interesting thing to me about these influencer briefings
01:25:46.020 is that they are to me a misstep I think they might be proof that they might not understand
01:25:53.660 their own strategy as well as I thought they did.
01:25:56.200 Interesting.
01:25:56.540 Because what works for them is presenting a common enemy.
01:26:01.080 Did you see any of these clips from these influencers on TikTok?
01:26:04.640 Did you get served any of this content?
01:26:06.660 No, you didn't. 0.99
01:26:08.260 Because watching a influencer suck up to Caroline Levitt... 0.92
01:26:16.540 Is boring.
01:26:17.640 Is boring. It's fucking boring. 1.00
01:26:19.880 Yeah. 1.00
01:26:20.340 How do they fire up their base? 1.00
01:26:22.020 They get Caroline out there. 1.00
01:26:23.420 she antagonizes the devilish mainstream media. I mean, every single time she talks to anybody in 1.00
01:26:28.900 this space, the mainstream media is not reporting on this. It produces clips that go viral of her
01:26:33.660 bitching at reporters in public before going behind the scenes and speaking to them like a 1.00
01:26:37.380 normal person. The base loves this performance. But the MAGA magic doesn't work when the reporter
01:26:43.720 is sucking up to you. That's a really good point. The other thing I was thinking about is we saw 0.69
01:26:48.360 this with the first Trump administration, and obviously the second administration has been
01:26:53.080 markedly different in a number of ways. But I do think that when you're, I mean, we've talked about
01:26:57.120 this with the profit model of conspiracy theories, is that it is like inherently a volatile chemical
01:27:04.840 combination. Like number one, you are teaching your core audience to believe nothing, which means
01:27:10.700 that at any given point, they could be manipulated against you. Yes, I know that we can't imagine a
01:27:16.080 lot of these Trump voters turning away from Trump. We also couldn't imagine Trump winning a second
01:27:20.020 election. I do think that there is this kind of reality that like when you teach people to be
01:27:26.040 untethered, then by definition, they are not tethered to anything. And that makes them very
01:27:31.840 difficult to keep in control. And then I would also say the same is true of all these influencers
01:27:36.900 where it's like when your whole profit model is like existing in the world of just utter bullshit, 0.99
01:27:42.020 bananas bullshit like the sky is green and elon musk is like our beloved patriarch then like and 0.99
01:27:48.340 why is no one talking about the sun changing colors you just like you don't you're not set 1.00
01:27:53.240 up to exist over a long period of time you're going to make a shit ton of money and then you're 0.99
01:27:57.000 going to be tucker carlson sitting next to alex joan them dipping their fucking zin pouches 0.88
01:28:01.660 totally de-platformed and i understand that they still have influence but i really think that we're 0.98
01:28:06.060 going to be moving through a time period where like they have sucked the internet dry and now
01:28:11.000 people are eventually going to also get bored of the conspiracy theories. Because they've
01:28:14.720 essentially said the craziest fucking shit you can imagine by now. And I think I would not be 1.00
01:28:20.100 surprised if over the next few decades, you see people just like getting bored with the internet
01:28:24.160 altogether because you've desensitized them. There's nothing else you can say at this point
01:28:27.800 for shock value. I think that's spot on. And I think that as my thesis came together here,
01:28:35.080 which is basically the Trump era as, like, the influencer administration, and that we should primarily understand them as trolls operating according to that playbook.
01:28:49.880 There was another big piece of news that broke just a couple of days ago that reaffirmed that for me and solidified the direction that this episode was going to take.
01:29:00.100 And it's that last week, Casey Means, sister of Callie Means, the ignoramus who was on that free press panel that we did in our Maha episode, was appointed Surgeon General.
01:29:12.040 Of course.
01:29:12.940 So NPR describes her as a best-selling author and wellness influencer.
01:29:19.280 A wellness influencer for Surgeon General.
01:29:21.980 Okay, this was a switch-up from Trump's initial pick, which was a Fox News contributor.
01:29:25.700 So, like, almost better.
01:29:27.880 Half dozen to one, six to the other. 0.99
01:29:30.100 who withdrew her nomination after her medical credentials came into question.
01:29:34.940 So, understandably, people are pretty up in arms about Casey's lack of credentials, too,
01:29:39.500 especially because if you go to caseymeans.com slash about,
01:29:42.940 she calls herself Dr. Casey Means,
01:29:44.860 and the opening line on her site's about page is,
01:29:47.220 I am a medical doctor.
01:29:49.160 Now, she went to Stanford Medical School,
01:29:52.040 which is why she can call herself a medical doctor,
01:29:54.520 but it's a little bit misleading because she never completed her residency
01:29:58.120 and instead dropped out of the residency program
01:30:01.600 before it would have been time to get certified.
01:30:05.800 She was like, hey, I know that we're all doing all these classes,
01:30:08.080 but has anyone noticed that the sun looks a little different these days? 0.99
01:30:13.360 She was writing op-eds in the Stanford Medical Journal fucking newspaper 0.99
01:30:17.880 being like, these professors are like really woke. 0.99
01:30:21.720 She began doing functional medicine.
01:30:23.160 She started a tech company which offers continuous glucose monitors
01:30:27.560 and an app to track your blood sugar and on her website she sells, say with me everyone,
01:30:32.600 supplements. So her version of this story is that she dropped out of her surgical residency
01:30:39.100 because she realized that modern medicine didn't treat the root cause of issues. It didn't heal
01:30:47.180 people from the root. But I was reading a thread in the medicine subreddit where people were
01:30:53.080 talking about this, and apparently she dropped out in her sixth year of ENT, that's ear, nose,
01:31:00.360 and throat residency, with just six months to go. So the speculation is that she was basically
01:31:07.020 fired from the program that she was deemed too incompetent to graduate. I think that anyone who
01:31:14.760 argues that modern medicine doesn't solve the root problems, they shouldn't be able to access 0.99
01:31:19.660 so much as a fucking Tylenol, 0.98
01:31:21.700 let alone any of the antibiotics. 0.99
01:31:23.720 There is this influencer that I used to follow 1.00
01:31:26.760 and she's like very wellness bullshit. 1.00
01:31:29.940 And she did this Instagram story the other day 0.99
01:31:32.000 and it was a picture of her in the hospital.
01:31:33.340 And she was like, now, you guys know me.
01:31:35.880 You know that I am like very anti-antibiotic, 0.96
01:31:38.680 but I just really needed it
01:31:39.920 because I really wasn't feeling well.
01:31:41.720 And so like feeling so much better.
01:31:43.820 And I was like, oh, so you mean that
01:31:45.400 when you actually needed antibiotics,
01:31:46.920 you went and got them? 0.97
01:31:47.860 And even now, you're fucking doubling down and being like, don't worry, this is an aberration. 0.99
01:31:54.040 I'm not going to trust antibiotics moving forward. 0.99
01:31:56.220 It's insane.
01:31:57.040 So one of the comments on the thread was like, ah, yes, the common trope of someone with six more months of residency
01:32:02.620 until they can go do sinus balloons and Botox for $800,000 a year,
01:32:08.160 who chooses of their own volition to just start an Instagram account instead.
01:32:12.340 certainly a decision she made without the input of a program
01:32:15.900 that was going to refuse to sign her residency certificate. 0.93
01:32:19.680 Like, there's no fucking way that it was just 0.96
01:32:22.100 you're, you know, an ENT resident 0.97
01:32:24.780 that then decides with six months to go
01:32:26.800 that actually modern medicine doesn't heal from the root.
01:32:30.240 So I'm going to throw 12 years of education and schooling away
01:32:33.180 right at the five-yard line.
01:32:35.740 Dude.
01:32:36.160 You basically have someone who has now retrofitted
01:32:38.400 her personal narrative to coalesce
01:32:40.820 with the broader anti-establishment agenda.
01:32:43.180 I'm going to just have you please read, if you don't mind,
01:32:45.700 the first sentence in the About the Office of the Surgeon General page
01:32:50.180 on the hhs.gov website.
01:32:54.280 And then I'm going to have you read her Instagram post
01:32:57.760 responding to a Wall Street Journal article
01:33:00.220 that mentioned her and some of her claims.
01:33:01.800 We're going to solve obesity with coffee enemas.
01:33:05.940 Okay.
01:33:07.300 As the nation's doctor,
01:33:08.480 the Surgeon General provides Americans with the best scientific information available on how to
01:33:13.540 improve their health and reduce their risk of illness and injury. The Surgeon General brings
01:33:17.940 the best available scientific information to the public by issuing Surgeon General's advisories,
01:33:23.200 calls to action, and reports on critical issues and communicating directly with the public via
01:33:27.700 a number of communication channels. Okay, here's a Casey Means post on science.
01:33:32.220 most mainstream news is the matrix meant to psychologically imprison us in fear and
01:33:40.020 she does and a little plus sign and i aim not to be a part of it and focus on alignment with
01:33:45.920 my highest purpose and creative force she sounds like scary glennon doyle speaking my
01:33:50.920 speaking my truth has gotten me linked to many a narrative and my path is to relentlessly
01:33:58.900 not get bogged down in it. These people love a double negative. Okay. My path is to relentlessly
01:34:06.540 not get bogged down in anything, but stay in a vision state. Okay, wait, okay. This has happened
01:34:12.620 multiple times in this episode today that I'm like, I must be reading this incorrectly and I'm
01:34:16.960 not. Okay. So I'm actually loving this quote in the Wall Street Journal in a profile piece that
01:34:21.740 came out today, smiley face emoji. The idea that it's controversial that we should both trust
01:34:27.120 unbiased scientific information, and our divine intuition is a sign of darkness in our culture.
01:34:32.740 The reality is that we are each a miracle, statistically, plus in all ways. We are a
01:34:38.020 swirl of energy and matter in constant exchange with everything in the cosmos. We live in a
01:34:43.200 quantum universe, and our biology is controlled by a star. Sun emoji. We are spiritual beings
01:34:49.600 having a dualistic experience in the material realm. Can I say also, you would never fucking 0.98
01:34:53.700 catch these people reading a book on Buddhism. I'm like, yeah, a billion people, a billion people 0.98
01:34:58.900 follow religion that combines the spiritual with the material world, and you would probably call 1.00
01:35:04.260 those people terrorists because you're such racist morons. Okay, moving on. Of course, 1.00
01:35:09.140 we should trust our heart intelligence and divine intuition instead of blindly trusting,
01:35:13.280 quote, the science, a weird new mind control term that silences the industry-sponsored narrative
01:35:19.760 It is in fundamental opposition to the actual scientific method, which is about questioning, wrestling with ideas like maybe the sun has changed.
01:35:27.760 That's just me. And testing hypotheses.
01:35:30.220 Science is not a religion, but industries are trying to make it one.
01:35:34.100 All right, Surgeon General, everyone.
01:35:36.120 Here she is, adversarially squaring off with who?
01:35:40.260 The mainstream media, the Trump administration's favorite opponent, angry that they are quoting her directly.
01:35:46.660 bear in mind that their usage, the Wall Street Journal's usage of the phrase
01:35:51.540 trusting the science was her phrase that they were quoting directly. Quote,
01:35:57.180 not blindly trusting the science, end quote, is something she said that they were reporting
01:36:02.620 verbatim. The Wall Street Journal was not using, quote, the science as a proper noun and admonishing
01:36:09.420 her for not trusting it. They were just fucking quoting her. 0.99
01:36:13.700 I want to be fair. She also has blessed us with important insights like this one. 0.99
01:36:22.020 If you will just describe for the audience what you see.
01:36:27.240 Our crab sticks made. After watching this video, you might never want to eat it again.
01:36:31.980 First, workers throw frozen fish paste resembling cement into a blender.
01:36:36.760 Oh, OK. OK.
01:36:40.660 Okay. Okay. Crab sticks don't actually have crab in them. Crab emoji.
01:36:48.080 Thank you so much for that, Casey. Okay. So I listened to her on Barry Weiss's podcast,
01:36:53.520 of all places.
01:36:54.320 Wait, what do we say?
01:36:56.280 Again, somehow.
01:36:58.000 Go on.
01:36:58.640 I found her to be more or less like unobjectionable. Like a lot of her points were that we basically
01:37:04.200 need to stop eating as much processed sugar as we do. And that metabolic function can get
01:37:09.540 fucked up if you're not eating nutritious foods. Like, there are some stuff at the margins that 0.86
01:37:14.320 I'd probably push back on and be like, eh, you're kind of oversimplifying that. But
01:37:17.860 the advice to eat less processed sugar and to eat more fiber, protein, healthy fats,
01:37:23.320 et cetera, that's like pretty standard. Uncontroversial. Yeah. I don't think she's
01:37:27.760 as countercultural to real doctors as she fancies herself to be or like brands herself to be.
01:37:34.640 She also made some critiques of industry fueling studies that absolved their products of being the
01:37:39.520 problem. Like, oh, Coca-Cola funded a study that said that drinking Coke isn't bad for you or
01:37:43.940 whatever. So a lot of that stuff, I was like, yeah, okay. But the thing is, she's not being
01:37:49.000 picked because she understands the importance of protein and fiber or her criticisms of
01:37:53.980 who's funding studies or even her vendetta against crab sticks. She's being picked
01:37:58.540 specifically because she has positioned herself as antithetical to establishment thought,
01:38:03.340 because she views herself as oppositional to this common enemy. And having a grudge against
01:38:09.460 the medical field is basically her personal brand, which is not exactly a great trait for a fucking 0.98
01:38:16.160 surgeon general to have, but it is a great trait for a MAGA appointee to have. But the response 0.97
01:38:23.580 and the reaction that this content gets is necessary to complete the trolling cycle. And I
01:38:28.300 think when we amplify the shitty and terrible things that Caroline says or the Trump administration 0.91
01:38:34.460 does with an emotional reaction like outrage or disgust or calling her KKK Caroline or saying 0.82
01:38:40.300 they're a fascist, it's like that is inadvertently providing the exact response and affirmation they
01:38:44.740 want to provoke in us. And so, of course, that's kind of the irony of doing an episode that
01:38:49.500 discusses this phenomenon and teases it apart. But right now, the right controls the narrative
01:38:55.760 and the emotional tenor online. We are constantly just reacting to their cruelty, and that is what
01:39:01.820 they want. In that sense, I kept thinking about what would happen if everyone just withheld their
01:39:09.400 attention. We already know that practically nothing she says in those press briefings is true,
01:39:15.640 right? Because her position as the press secretary right now is not to impart information to the
01:39:21.900 public, but to lie on behalf of Donald Trump to create these viral moments and to kind of like
01:39:28.540 put out that bulldog front. So there's effectively no benefit to the public of amplifying her version 1.00
01:39:35.200 of reality. It does nothing positive for anybody. So like what would happen if no reporters went 0.56
01:39:41.240 and she just had to speak to an empty room? Because it feels like the intent of capturing
01:39:46.240 her lying and the reason why we like, well, you know, repost these clips is to kind of be like,
01:39:51.840 oh my God, look how horrible she is as though that is going to change anyone's mind. But the people
01:39:57.240 who like her, they like her precisely because of this behavior. And it's the reason why I've come
01:40:02.800 to see what Suzanne Lambert is doing. Not acting horrified by the things that they're doing. Not 0.96
01:40:09.180 amplifying their cruelty in headlines or painting them out to be this big powerful force, but by
01:40:16.040 making fun of them. By laughing at them as the best response. So Suzanne Lambert is a comedian.
01:40:22.600 She became popular after she made a viral video
01:40:25.060 doing her makeup like the quote MAGA girlies
01:40:27.340 and is basically billed now
01:40:29.160 as like the Regina George liberal.
01:40:31.660 So her thing is like, you know, 1.00
01:40:33.320 fuck when they go low, we go high. 1.00
01:40:35.140 That does not work in the social media age 1.00
01:40:37.260 unless you want a truly odious force
01:40:39.120 to continue accumulating a lot of power and influence.
01:40:41.740 You have to basically neuter the appeal of them going low.
01:40:45.900 So this is from a Washington Post article about Suzanne.
01:40:48.660 It says, quote,
01:40:49.400 Lambert argues that the kind of jabs she favors 0.77
01:40:51.880 aren't causing real harm, just embarrassment.
01:40:55.440 Embracing an obvious absurdity
01:40:57.020 like a vice presidential candidate 0.99
01:40:58.640 having sex with a couch, she said, 0.98
01:41:00.800 is different than, say, 1.00
01:41:02.720 smearing Haitian immigrants with false claims
01:41:04.780 that they are eating Ohioans' pets. 0.95
01:41:07.360 So she told them,
01:41:08.460 Trump has positioned himself somehow
01:41:10.120 to be above political consequences.
01:41:12.240 So his followers think they are above social consequences.
01:41:16.380 And I am here to remind them that they are wrong
01:41:19.320 and that there are social consequences
01:41:21.380 for saying the horrendous things that you say to people.
01:41:24.040 So, in other words,
01:41:25.600 you have to make associating yourself
01:41:27.220 with this ethos embarrassing.
01:41:29.880 Social consequences work.
01:41:32.280 Nancy Mace, anti-trans psycho, 0.64
01:41:34.200 famed anti-trans psycho, 0.99
01:41:35.400 is one of her favorite targets. 0.90
01:41:37.120 So here's an example.
01:41:38.600 Hey, Nance, me again.
01:41:39.720 I'm super bummed you haven't responded
01:41:41.000 to any of my messages,
01:41:42.040 but I'm trying not to take it personally
01:41:43.380 because I know it must take a lot of time
01:41:45.200 to incorrectly apply so much nose contour
01:41:47.380 that you look like the scarecrow
01:41:48.560 from The Wizard of Oz.
01:41:49.960 So while I wait for your comment
01:41:51.160 on all of the Republican officials 0.90
01:41:52.480 who have made the world a dangerous place for women 1.00
01:41:54.420 since that's the whole basis for your bathroom crusade. 1.00
01:41:56.800 Thought I would tell you this super funny story about you
01:41:58.900 that's been going around my friend group for years.
01:42:01.040 So there's this game called Never Have I Ever
01:42:02.780 and it tends to get pretty racy, right?
01:42:04.540 It would actually be a really difficult game
01:42:06.240 for you to play, no shame in that. 1.00
01:42:08.240 We love an experienced liberated queen. 1.00
01:42:11.000 And whenever we play with one of my friends,
01:42:12.520 one of the questions is always,
01:42:13.740 never have I ever hooked up with the same guy 1.00
01:42:15.360 as Nancy Mace and she always has to drink, 0.99
01:42:17.920 which I'm sure that wouldn't be
01:42:18.840 an irregular occurrence for you.
01:42:20.380 But the funny part about it is the guy in question was one of your junior staffers.
01:42:26.620 Yeah, he was in his early 20s and you were in your 40s at the time, allegedly.
01:42:31.820 Isn't that weird?
01:42:33.140 That just doesn't feel like very becoming behavior of an elected official, right?
01:42:36.920 Especially an official who wants to run for governor while accusing other people in the
01:42:40.980 government of being predators.
01:42:42.420 So anyways, thought you would think that was super funny.
01:42:44.460 We all certainly do.
01:42:45.580 And I also wanted to say, loving all the effort you're putting in to look like the hottest
01:42:48.920 girl at Walmart as you're separating families at the border. It's so funny that what you wear in
01:42:52.540 earnest is what I wore in 2011 at the white trash bash with the Sigma Chi. So Caroline Leavitt 1.00
01:42:58.160 complains constantly about mainstream media and the headlines. The fact that nobody prominent on
01:43:05.360 the right, not a single person, has even acknowledged Suzanne Lambert's existence,
01:43:11.760 has never even attempted to clap back at that content, is proof to me that what she is doing
01:43:17.020 is working because what she's doing is she's bullying a troll you're taking their power away 0.95
01:43:23.000 she's going oh you're embarrassing and gross and weird i feel like everyone who listens to this and 0.91
01:43:28.140 you katie have been kind of hearing me tease out that like i'm pretty fascinated with where the 0.81
01:43:33.560 internet is going to go and like i feel pretty confident that we are experiencing this inflection
01:43:39.400 point where we have almost i don't want to say we have maxed out what the internet is capable of but
01:43:44.940 what we have seen the internet transform into, which is like this one-stop porn shop where it's 0.79
01:43:50.100 like lifestyle porn, torture porn, politics porn. The end result of that is that people get
01:43:55.940 saturated and then they get bored and it doesn't really give them the same feeling that they get
01:44:00.340 and then they leave. And of course, some small percentage of people will become addicted. But
01:44:05.540 like you said, the vast majority of people who experience conspiracy theories watch them and
01:44:10.000 then move on with their lives. And so I think that there is the short term of it all, which I think
01:44:14.840 Suzanne Lambert is very good with. And I actually experienced this too when I had like my Candace
01:44:18.760 Owens debacle where she just like fucking went on a tirade about me. I did two TikToks, right? 1.00
01:44:24.720 One of them was me being like, I'm going to rationally explain why I have a brain and she
01:44:29.980 does not. And then the other one I did was me being like, oh my God, I just realized the funniest
01:44:34.960 thing about what she fucking did in her video. And it was basically me realizing that she had 0.99
01:44:39.480 just totally whiffed on something I had said and come up with a totally different conclusion that 0.98
01:44:44.720 led to her saying out loud that the reason the Roman Empire fell was like because of gay people. 1.00
01:44:49.520 And it was just like hilarious. And I couldn't stop laughing about it. And like, guess which 1.00
01:44:54.260 video went viral? It's the one where I was laughing. And it also was the one where I
01:44:59.080 actually felt better, where I was like, oh my God, these people, they are trolls, but they also
01:45:04.060 benefit by intelligent and competent people responding to them because it makes them look
01:45:09.660 legitimate and it makes them to be perceived as peers. And the best lesson I could have learned
01:45:14.680 happened from that with Candace Owens, where I was like, I am a library and you are a circus.
01:45:19.540 We are not the same. We can both provide entertainment, but I will never again give
01:45:24.520 someone like that the ability to use my intelligence and my credibility as leverage for them.
01:45:30.660 We have to be very careful how we do that. And I have been so thoughtful moving forward where I'm
01:45:34.820 like, number one, I'm never giving you guys the fucking time of day. If I do, it'll be to dunk on 0.98
01:45:38.900 you and point out how fucking dumb you are. And I will never allow you to position yourself as my 1.00
01:45:43.360 peer again. And so I think that Suzanne Lambert does a really good job of shitting on these 0.99
01:45:48.100 people while also making it clear that she is not necessarily their opposition, that she exists in 0.97
01:45:53.220 a different sphere entirely. And I think that's what I kind of want to see more politicians do
01:45:58.700 in the short term of just being like, we're not at the same table. We're existing in two totally
01:46:03.180 different rooms. And then in the long term, I really think that the internet is going to degrade
01:46:09.480 and that is going to be a good thing. I don't think that we are going to solve this issue of
01:46:14.780 misinformation by just winning people over with facts. I think that a lot of people are going to
01:46:20.600 leave certain areas of the internet. And we will hopefully, I mean, we could see that with
01:46:26.020 regulation. We could also hopefully see that with profit in the same way that the movie industry
01:46:31.380 is changing and the publishing industry is changing. The conspiracy theory industry will
01:46:36.080 also change. It is not immune to those forms of people getting bored and getting tired of it.
01:46:42.100 Like when enough influencers say, I don't want to hear your pronouns, everyone's kind of like,
01:46:46.040 all right, that's tired. That's not eliciting an emotion for me anymore. And so I think that
01:46:50.200 should be comforting. These people will eventually make people bored of getting lied to. And I think
01:46:55.780 that that's a good thing. Well, and I think that there's the other piece of that is the way that
01:47:01.920 Buttigieg communicates like when he goes on a podcast I know we kind of just said you can't
01:47:06.940 fight crazy with fact because they don't care about the facts but I think that what Pete does
01:47:12.800 really well and where I think he has really mastered this is that he doesn't get rattled
01:47:18.400 totally doesn't get worked up he doesn't emotionally respond he's a very de-escalating
01:47:23.960 force he'll go on Fox and he'll talk to their hosts it kind of renders the Fox host in this
01:47:29.660 kind of like comedically over-the-top contrast where they, it like makes them look insane
01:47:35.460 because he's so casually sitting there unruffled, just being like, well, let's talk about that.
01:47:43.160 Whereas the Fox host is probably shouting at him and you don't recognize it when everyone's
01:47:48.720 shouting. But when one person comes in and is speaking normally, you're kind of like, whoa,
01:47:53.540 It's just jarring.
01:47:55.300 That's almost like the, if Suzanne Lambert is like the shot in the arm that snaps people out of it, 1.00
01:48:02.640 it's like, oh, no, Elon Musk is a weird fucking loser. 0.98
01:48:05.280 He's not like a scary, brilliant billionaire oligarch. 1.00
01:48:08.340 He's just like a sad little guy who moves like a Sims character. 0.99
01:48:12.220 Who maybe has never had sex. 0.97
01:48:14.240 We do not have evidence that that man has had physical sex before. 0.83
01:48:17.780 We know that he has ejaculated, but we do not know that he has been inside of a woman before.
01:48:23.540 we're also seeing like a little bit of a tilt today.
01:48:26.740 Like we're seeing a lot of billionaires
01:48:28.140 starting to feel pretty bad about the world
01:48:30.920 that they built for us.
01:48:32.280 Have you seen how many of them have announced
01:48:34.020 in recent weeks being like,
01:48:35.620 hey, I'm pretty uncomfortable
01:48:38.420 with where things are going.
01:48:39.860 I'm going to give away all of my money.
01:48:43.820 I'm like, oh, they saw the chick
01:48:45.780 who thinks the sun is white
01:48:46.880 and they're like, whoa, this has gone out of hand.
01:48:51.600 But then the long game is the Pete Buttigieg.
01:48:56.720 Yeah, there's nothing for them to grab onto. 0.81
01:48:58.880 For a movement that has so thoroughly built itself on the foundation of triggering the libs and owning the libs and look at how absurd and crazy and the liberals are so out there. 0.98
01:49:12.640 It takes all the firepower away from those claims and just kind of makes them look ridiculous on their face. 0.91
01:49:19.220 the biggest thing that I got out of reading about this was dude every single time that I've ever 0.87
01:49:25.380 reposted like a Matt Gaetz announcement and like went off about Matt Gaetz every time I've ever 0.99
01:49:33.400 watched a Caroline Levitt clip and shared it being like this fucking bitch it's like oh my god I took 1.00
01:49:39.300 the bait every time I took the bait that's exactly the strategy is get people like me mad enough to 1.00
01:49:46.100 amplify their message. I'm proud of how you handled this episode because it was a very
01:49:52.460 healthy form of shitposting. Like, I think that it's really good. We totally, we could have made
01:49:57.880 fun of her freaky elderly husband. We could have made fun of her weird little baby. We could have 0.83
01:50:02.880 made fun of her horrible outfits. And we did that all the way at the end for anyone who wanted to
01:50:07.420 listen all the way through. And her ugly little leopard print dress. We could have done all of 1.00
01:50:12.940 But anyway, that's all.
01:50:14.500 That was amazing.
01:50:15.340 I loved it.
01:50:15.740 I didn't know any of this about her.
01:50:18.000 So bravo. 0.99