For The Wild - July 24, 2019


CINTA KAIPAT on the Militarization of Pågan and Defending Island Sovereignty ⧸129

Topics
Collective Liberation & Communal Gathering at LIGHTNING IN A BOTTLE ⧸128 PUA CASE on the Heart of a Mountain ⌠ENCORE⌡ ⧸130

Episode Stats


Length

58 minutes

Words per minute

125.2

Word count

7,363

Sentence count

374

Harmful content

Toxicity

4

sentences flagged

Hate speech

25

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
00:00:00.000 For the Wild podcast is made possible through the generous support of the Calliopeia Foundation.
00:00:05.280 We are so grateful for their continued support in our work, as well as many other like-minded
00:00:10.200 projects that believe in the immediate need for taking physical and spiritual responsibility
00:00:15.060 for the vitality of our common home.
00:00:18.020 Welcome to For the Wild podcast.
00:00:20.420 I'm Ayanna Young.
00:00:30.000 but for god's sake let's not be so concerned about people's perceptions and let's get down
00:00:39.240 to reality if we don't speak up and and put a stop to this then our air our lands our waters
00:00:48.440 would all be polluted and what kind of life would we all have 0.94
00:00:52.940 Today we are speaking with Sinta Kaipat, who is of the Rufalawash-Chamaro descent and is
00:01:11.260 an advocate for indigenous Rufalawash rights, preservation of indigenous cultural practices
00:01:16.500 and beliefs, and promotion of responsible environmental stewardship in the Marianas.
00:01:22.540 Ms. Kaipot is an attorney.
00:01:24.380 She is a former assistant attorney general, a former congresswoman, and a former hearing
00:01:29.440 officer, an administrative law judge, as well as a former deputy secretary for the Department
00:01:35.060 of Labor.
00:01:36.020 She founded Beautify CNMI, a grassroots environmental organization which won an EPA award in its
00:01:43.520 first year of existence.
00:01:45.780 Co-founded Pagan Watch, a watchdog organization formed to protect Pagan and help promote the
00:01:51.720 resettlement of the former residents displaced as Mount Poggin's eruption in 1981 and co-founded
00:01:58.200 the Alternative Zero Coalition, which was newly formed in 2015 to advocate for and protect the
00:02:04.900 Mariana Islands, especially Poggin and Tinian, from irreparable destruction at the hands of the
00:02:10.600 U.S. military and its allies, which intend to turn their sacred inhabited island homes of Poggin
00:02:17.140 and Tinian into target practices using live fire bombings and heavy artillery shellings. 0.99
00:02:23.760 Well, welcome, Sinta. Thank you so much for joining us and for sharing with us this deeply
00:02:30.480 important information that many of us just don't have any access to in mainstream media.
00:02:36.720 Hello, Tiro, Hofoday, Ayana. Thank you so much for inviting me to join you on this program and
00:02:46.500 to share this very important information that is affecting all of us who live here in the
00:02:56.800 Mariana Islands. Well, I'd like to begin at the heart of today's topic by reading a quote of
00:03:04.660 yours I came across while researching the proposed militarization of Pagan. Quote,
00:03:09.540 if the Navy's plans go ahead, they will turn our homeland into a militarized wasteland,
00:03:15.040 and we will never be able to return, end quote. And so I'd like to start this conversation by
00:03:22.180 exploring the ongoing and immediate threats faced by the islands of Poggin and Tinian,
00:03:28.000 both of which are part of the northern Mariana Islands. So Sinta, can you share with our
00:03:33.820 listeners why the U.S. military wants to acquire Poggin and what they intend to do there? And how
00:03:40.400 How is life on Tinian radically transformed already due to the United States military's presence? 0.85
00:03:47.100 Well, first of all, Pagan is key to the whole buildup. 0.97
00:03:51.100 When the United States and Japan agreed to reduce some of the presence of the military in Japan, in Okinawa, 0.75
00:04:03.220 They decided to split up the number of Marines and send some to Hawaii, some to Australia, some to Guam.
00:04:14.820 So that basically is what they called the tip of the spear.
00:04:20.060 They made that decision to send the military to Guam, which is 200 or so miles south of Saipan.
00:04:30.820 And at the time that this decision was made, the Navy issued a statement that they would not need any more places to train the Marines outside of Guam.
00:04:46.420 And this is important because they had to comply with NEPA requirements that basically said that they had to reveal not only what the plan was, but invite comments, and they were supposed to look at alternative trainings.
00:05:03.120 And this was designed to allow the people a chance to learn what was going on or about to happen in the community.
00:05:12.900 And if there was something that they did not agree with, that this would give them a chance to air their concerns with their leaders, their local leaders, and bring this to the attention of the military so they can resolve things.
00:05:26.700 Well, apparently the Navy blatantly lied because they said that they did not need any more training outside of Guam.
00:05:36.400 And meanwhile, they were already planning two other trainings that were to happen.
00:05:44.100 And that the two training ranges, the live fire training ranges that they did not review at the time were announced later.
00:05:55.020 And those two ranges were planned for where I live, which is the Northern Marianas.
00:06:03.320 One such training range involves Tinian.
00:06:08.820 And the way that if you look at this whole thing, the Navy was slick because they realized that they would most likely receive a lot of opposition
00:06:20.560 to them turning this whole region into the world's largest live training bombing complex.
00:06:30.500 And so they decided to break down the plan into five separate standalone training ranges
00:06:41.660 and try to avoid the opposition that way
00:06:46.540 because this way they don't have to comply with the NEPA requirement of taking into consideration
00:06:54.280 and reporting the cumulative impact of all this that is going on.
00:07:00.000 So, for instance, the trainings that are supposed to happen on Guam,
00:07:07.680 the level of training increases in intensity and volume in every way imaginable
00:07:16.940 in the level of the types of trainings that they will be doing.
00:07:22.240 That increases in intensity and in variety of ways when they reach Tinian.
00:07:29.060 And then just summarizing this whole thing,
00:07:32.980 and why is it that they want Poggin?
00:07:35.300 Let me go back to our political history. When we were deciding what our political status would be in the 70s, the Commonwealth status is what the people eventually voted for to become a permanent Commonwealth or part of the United States family.
00:08:01.040 And in that negotiation, to become a part of the United States family, we gave up, we agreed to give up two-thirds of Tinian to the U.S. military. We gave up an entire island and called for London in Indonesia, which the U.S. continually bombs, even today.
00:08:22.820 we gave up part of the Tanapak Harbor.
00:08:29.100 Pagan was never, ever discussed
00:08:32.820 as being contemplated to be included
00:08:35.640 in our negotiations to become a part of the United States.
00:08:41.400 So the promise for Tinian was that
00:08:44.220 the U.S. would take two-thirds of the island, 0.84
00:08:47.220 and people would live on one-third of the island,
00:08:49.360 And they would build a military base there. They would provide job opportunities for the people. They would allow the residents access to the schools and to shops and restaurants and whatever other amenities that would come along with providing for the families of the U.S. soldiers who would be relocated on the base.
00:09:18.800 None of that came to pass.
00:09:20.460 None of that happened.
00:09:22.520 No base was ever built.
00:09:24.720 So they agreed to, the U.S. agreed to leave part of that land to the farmers so that their cattle can graze on the land.
00:09:36.760 So what got people really upset today is the fact that now the military is coming around
00:09:43.800 and they're talking about wanting to use Tinian as a live fire bombing range instead.
00:09:51.840 They're talking about, for example, they want to set up artillery, firing range, tank maneuver range, amphibious assault.
00:10:05.920 which is basically what this translates into.
00:10:09.860 There's a lot more that they want to do there.
00:10:11.840 But in terms of the impact on the people of Tinian,
00:10:15.260 there's about 30,000 plus people living there.
00:10:19.440 That means that their access to the beaches where they go and fish,
00:10:27.080 because, you know, the farther away that you get from the capital island of Saipan,
00:10:32.940 the more expensive the goods are.
00:10:35.580 So they need to fish to not only continue their cultural practices, but also to supplement their income, feed their families.
00:10:46.320 So the military will be closing off access to the beaches that allow the people to fish for their subsistence.
00:10:55.580 And there are other areas in the property where the people go to collect medicine, medicinal plants.
00:11:06.620 Also, every year, the people of Tinian host what they call the Pika Festival, which is the hot pepper festival that draws thousands of people to that tiny island every year.
00:11:19.000 this is a great opportunity for them to generate some income
00:11:25.640 and in the past I know that this issue has been raised
00:11:32.540 as far as cutting off access to these hot pepper plants
00:11:37.940 in the wild that the people collect
00:11:39.820 and they also collect and sell them
00:11:42.720 Tinian is known for their hot peppers
00:11:44.540 and they sell them in stores
00:11:45.960 So the remark that one of the spokespersons for the military had basically said, which was really insulting, was, well, you know, if they can't get to it and get to it, then maybe it's time for them to get with the modern times.
00:12:06.920 And basically what he was saying is, you know, we're backwards people that are still living in the dark ages and we're not with, you know, up with the modern times or modern life.
00:12:19.480 So, you know, it's that kind of disrespect for the people and the culture.
00:12:23.740 So people were upset about that.
00:12:26.220 And the other thing that recently happened is the establishment or the signing of the agreement for the Divert Airfield.
00:12:36.920 What this will do is it would open up a field on Tinian to receive overflow of aircraft from Guam.
00:12:49.720 And as you can imagine, not only would the people be bombarded with the noise level from all the artillery shellings going on on Tinian,
00:13:01.540 But then you add to the mix the noise pollution from the aircraft that will be landing and taking off from this tiny island.
00:13:13.500 And just having the people be forced to put up with all this on the one-third of that island, try to imagine schoolchildren trying to concentrate to hear their teachers over their loud noises of howitzers going off or airplanes trying to take off or land.
00:13:35.360 And imagine the elders who are still suffering from traumatic experiences of World War II and them hearing all this noise, animals being frightened.
00:13:49.460 You know, there's just so much, so much that is a source of concern.
00:13:55.100 So imagine all the intensity of this training happening on Tinian. 0.67
00:14:00.400 And then you move that to Pagan, where the military is just, they are hell-bent on trying to get this entire island, this entire island. 0.67
00:14:13.460 This is my childhood home.
00:14:15.220 I have precious memories of living on Pagan, going to school in a two-room schoolhouse,
00:14:25.560 Just going on school picnics where we got in a boat and we went to a beach on the other side of the island and pulled the boat ashore to the lagoon and going around in that lagoon, picking mangoes.
00:14:41.220 I mean, just fruits and even learning to fish.
00:14:45.000 Imagine this very serene, quiet place being turned into just a hellhole.
00:14:53.040 Because what's going to happen is the Navy is planning to hold the highest impact, the full spectrum of their military training on that island.
00:15:05.800 I'm talking about everything from amphibious training to bombs from the airplane and shelling the island from the ship and solar testing in our waters.
00:15:19.420 It's incredible.
00:15:21.520 It's just unbelievable to imagine this kind of fury being unleashed on that island that the people, my people, have been trying to return to since they were last evacuated from that island in 1981 after the volcano erupted.
00:15:42.680 And now we are fighting this David versus Goliath battle because we are clearly outfinanced.
00:15:57.840 We're just a small island community with people who are just ordinary folks.
00:16:03.960 We're not trying to fight the military because we are unpatriotic.
00:16:09.120 If you look at our records, you'll find that a lot of us have families who are either active or who were active in the armed forces and served the different branches of the military.
00:16:22.520 I have two nephews who came home in coffins from the Iraq War, and they are missed every single day.
00:16:37.300 Every life is precious.
00:16:39.700 I'm not saying that other lives do not matter, but I'm saying that the impact of losing someone in these small communities just reverberates.
00:16:52.520 wider. And I just want to make that clear to people who accuse us of being anti-U.S. or
00:17:04.160 anti-military. I never said anything about giving up my U.S. citizenship or my passport or anything
00:17:14.760 like that but people often bully us when we speak up and say you know hey guys this is not not good
00:17:23.740 what you're planning to do to our eyes is it's not good because it's not healthy you're exposing
00:17:29.920 us to a lot of danger health-wise and you're putting a big target on our foreheads you know
00:17:36.740 by choosing our location to have these large-scale military trainings.
00:17:49.280 And people, some of our critics are quick to point out that, you know,
00:17:54.940 we're so grateful to the military when the super typhoons came in
00:18:00.180 and just basically leveled some of our islands, parts of our islands.
00:18:05.660 And how could we be so ungrateful to that? But you know what? There's gratitude for what the military has done. No doubt about it. We thank them. We'll always be grateful.
00:18:19.300 but when is how far does that gratitude extend think of it this way this is an analogy that
00:18:27.200 may be crude but i say you know you have a doctor who saves your life because they
00:18:34.180 operated on you to remove your your gallstones but then you're you're so grateful
00:18:40.960 that you tell the doctor hey it's okay to kill me so you can discontinue to practice your 0.81
00:18:48.260 surgical skills. I mean, it's just ridiculous. You know, it's, it's what extent to what extent? 0.99
00:18:57.760 How can you turn away? Don't you care? Don't you care? How I feel as if all that we shared
00:19:08.600 A moment's comfort disappeared
00:19:11.080 Is nothing we said really real
00:19:17.340 Safe in arms, no one could harm us
00:19:22.460 Protecting honor, trust, and respect
00:19:25.700 A moment's comfort disappeared
00:19:30.500 Is nothing we said really real
00:19:36.280 To take action this week and support Sinta's work, first, please call and write to your
00:19:45.100 members of Congress. While Northern Mariana Islanders are citizens, they have a non-voting
00:19:50.260 delegate in the House, which means that it is critical that we continue to remind our
00:19:54.500 representatives that what happens in the Northern Mariana Islands matters. You can find your
00:19:59.920 congressional representative's contact information at whoismyrepresentative.com.
00:20:04.640 Second, though the comment period and petitions for Tinian and Pagan have passed
00:20:10.040 You can sign the petition on change.org to save Ritiden in Guam
00:20:14.720 Which faces similar threats of militarization
00:20:17.400 You can find the link on our website or in the details section of this episode
00:20:22.180 Thanks for listening
00:20:34.640 how can you be so cold don't you know you are loved always running and hide the wounded child
00:20:46.400 within yourself afraid of loving no one else what have i done that you won't face me
00:20:58.800 see that your pain is inside of me, the wounded child within ourselves, afraid of loving no one
00:21:10.460 else.
00:21:13.400 Sinta, you've given us so much to chew on so far, and I want to focus in on an area that you have
00:21:23.740 mentioned. I really want to delve deeper into the ramifications of the military's presence.
00:21:28.800 It seems like the military's training includes amphibious assaults, mortars, rockets, artillery, attack helicopters, and naval bombardment.
00:21:39.000 And for many of us, this is something that is completely out of sight, out of mind.
00:21:42.820 So I'd really like if you could share how the training would not only inevitably kill wildlife, exacerbate the endangerment of many species, destroy farmland, forest, and coral reefs, 0.79
00:21:54.400 but also the ways in which the indigenous peoples, mostly the Chamaro, would have their access to cultural sites and food sources completely restricted.
00:22:03.960 Now, I know you'd already mentioned about the beaches and the collection of the herbs and fish,
00:22:08.700 but maybe if you could go into more of what happens there physically when the military begins attacking,
00:22:15.540 what do you see in terms of complete destruction?
00:22:17.980 well you know take
00:22:20.660 for example
00:22:23.600 when we started to
00:22:25.400 clear the land
00:22:27.560 you know they destroyed cultural artifacts
00:22:29.760 the lattice stones that are very
00:22:31.540 iconic
00:22:32.880 symbolic important
00:22:35.080 pieces of artifact to
00:22:37.540 the Chamorros
00:22:38.520 and that shows you the 1.00
00:22:41.460 blatant disrespect that they have
00:22:43.560 military has
00:22:45.180 for the
00:22:47.080 the cultural artifacts of the people.
00:22:52.220 So no matter what they say,
00:22:54.580 because if you hear them talk,
00:22:57.260 the military will tell you that they are the biggest,
00:23:01.300 biggest supporters or they are the best environmental stewards on the planet.
00:23:08.300 And their actions speak louder than words.
00:23:13.600 So that's a huge concern.
00:23:16.020 Take Pagan, for example. There's an ancient village that still needs to be surveyed on that island.
00:23:26.340 So when they start dropping the thousand-pound bombs on that island and they have all these other military vehicles, heavy military vehicles that they will be bringing to the island if they succeed.
00:23:41.860 because I continue to believe that programs like For the Wild
00:23:46.660 help us to stand a fighting chance.
00:23:51.940 So assuming that they prevail in this insanity,
00:23:58.040 they will be bringing amphibious vehicles that will run from the ocean
00:24:02.560 up onto the beaches that would,
00:24:05.600 if you take a look at some of the photographs of the beaches in Sampag,
00:24:10.340 And unfortunately, nature has taken its toll, and so there's a lot of soil erosion.
00:24:16.320 So the beaches are suffering from erosion already.
00:24:20.480 So imagine the heavy equipment that would be coming ashore.
00:24:26.140 That would further speed up the erosion.
00:24:30.600 And then, of course, they're heavy, and they're going to be brought onto the land.
00:24:35.040 And for some of the concerns that we have is really avoiding what happened to Guam.
00:24:42.960 In Guam, the Navy brought in the brown tree snake that has destroyed the bird population of Guam.
00:24:57.120 So these are vehicles that would also be coming from Guam.
00:25:01.160 So imagine if they're going to inadvertently introduce the brown tree snake
00:25:07.320 and have the snake also destroy the bird population on the island.
00:25:14.520 Imagine if they're also introducing some invasive plant species
00:25:20.020 that would also take over and destroy the fauna,
00:25:27.460 fauna of the island.
00:25:28.920 You know, these are possibilities. And so people are highly concerned because obviously, whenever the military is about to conduct any sort of training, for example, for their bombing exercises, they come up from Guam and they fly over to Fernanda, Mendoniza, and they drop the bombs, carpet bombs on that island.
00:25:56.620 And some of them end up in the waters.
00:25:59.760 A lot of them actually have landed.
00:26:02.320 These are unexploded ordnance that expose not only the marine life to toxicity, but the fishermen who go fishing.
00:26:15.480 But whenever they are about to do these bombing exercises, they also send out a notice and they restrict the space, you know, the airspace, the space around the area, water and so forth.
00:26:29.580 That affects people's movements.
00:26:33.360 When the military talks about Pagan, they're mentioning only one island.
00:26:40.200 But I disagree.
00:26:41.160 I believe that they will be taking both islands on either side,
00:26:49.340 Agrion to the north, which is really actually my birth island,
00:26:53.720 and Alamogan in the south.
00:26:55.680 These three islands today are the three islands that I have been working
00:27:01.340 to help the people resettle since I returned back home in 1998
00:27:07.200 after going off to school.
00:27:10.140 and they don't like to bring that up
00:27:15.960 because it would just mean more land
00:27:19.280 and more requirements to adhere to,
00:27:21.380 more NEPA requirements,
00:27:23.080 which we're fully convinced
00:27:25.540 that they're just basically kind of going through the motions
00:27:28.300 just to say that they were able to comply,
00:27:31.580 but they're not really complying with the spirit
00:27:35.160 and intent of the law.
00:27:37.420 I think they're just, you know, we're not convinced.
00:27:40.140 that they're sincere in their compliance.
00:27:44.280 And so people won't be able to access those islands
00:27:49.680 while the military is training either of those islands.
00:27:52.940 So can you imagine if the people are trying to move back to Pagan, for example,
00:27:58.140 or any of those other two islands?
00:28:01.500 Pagan, for example, is now at a stage where the government
00:28:07.120 is finally recognizing the desires of the people to return home.
00:28:12.140 And so just this year, the government, our Department of Public Lands,
00:28:17.220 issued a notice that they were going to allow applicants to apply for homesteads up on Pargan.
00:28:25.400 This is significant because back during the Trust Territory times in the 60s,
00:28:33.000 when people were living up in the Northern Islands,
00:28:36.480 It was a time when there was, you know, free movement, free flow of traffic back and forth between these islands.
00:28:45.100 The people lived up there, and this is the 60s, around the time that I was living up there.
00:28:50.520 I was born on Agrigan, and eventually my family moved to Pagan when my father was elected as a congressman representing the Northern Islands.
00:29:01.160 So the headquarters was on Pagan.
00:29:03.520 And he was instrumental in being given some money, a budget, and he recruited the islands, men, women, and even my Peace Corps teachers, my first great Peace Corps teachers, and they all got together to patch up the old dirt Japanese airstrip that had been heavily bombed out during World War II.
00:29:27.300 There was a Japanese population living on Pagan at the time also, not just Saipan, or even some of these other islands in the archipelago.
00:29:39.480 But when they patched up that dirt airstrip, it reopened the air service to the northern islands since the end of World War II.
00:29:50.800 And I recall that we had tourism up there where my 12-year-old brother used to lead.
00:29:57.120 He was a guy that used to lead tourists to climb Mount Pagan.
00:30:00.980 I used to stand on the front porch of our veranda and train the binocular up the volcano to gauge their progress.
00:30:09.540 There were Japanese tourists.
00:30:12.200 There were American tourists.
00:30:13.680 There were people coming from everywhere.
00:30:16.160 And my father was a big believer in agriculture.
00:30:20.080 And that's what he specialized in when he was going to school at the University of Hawaii.
00:30:27.860 So he came back and he had all these plans for us up in Pagan.
00:30:32.360 He also was instrumental in bringing up the military actually from Guam.
00:30:39.940 I believe this was 1971.
00:30:42.380 They came up and they actually expanded that dirt airstrip.
00:30:47.020 And they also built a dispensary.
00:30:49.020 That's my first experience with the military was very positive in that these were people who were there to help the community.
00:30:57.860 They were there to help rebuild the infrastructure.
00:31:01.740 So, you know, the military wasn't always this, you know, this that I'm fighting today.
00:31:07.480 I'm not opposing the military in the sense that I do not believe in making sure that they have a readily trained force to protect the nation, protect its allies.
00:31:20.360 But, my God, you know, if you look at all the places that they could train in the world, why this very small, tiny island?
00:31:29.480 Why bring so much destruction to our small rocks in this huge ocean?
00:31:37.480 It just does not make sense to me.
00:31:40.440 And all the thousands and millions of dollars that they're going to be spending to construct the training facilities and all that,
00:31:50.440 I mean, when they have all these other training facilities that are already built and in place.
00:31:57.380 So it just does not make any sense.
00:32:00.240 and what they're planning to do is just going to radically change our entire lives
00:32:07.960 because we are a small tropical paradise that relies heavily on tourism.
00:32:16.840 So who would want to come here to the Marianas
00:32:22.100 when we are ground zero of the world's largest live fire training range.
00:32:30.740 Obviously, we're not going to be appealing.
00:32:33.940 Who wants to come here?
00:32:35.880 And instead of enjoying the serenity of the peaceful environment,
00:32:41.520 they are hearing bombs going off and mortars and grenades and howitzers and so forth.
00:32:49.100 It's just not realistic.
00:32:52.100 And the other thing that concerns the people is the fact that when I talk about them putting out these restrictive zones,
00:32:59.580 right now, Tinian relies on sending their patients to Saipan for the really serious emergency cases.
00:33:10.160 But what they're going to have to do is they're going to have to divert their flight path
00:33:15.480 because they can't just continue to fly directly to Saipan
00:33:21.020 from being in the way that they are doing now.
00:33:24.160 So when your life hangs, it depends on the minutes or seconds
00:33:31.800 to require a patient in that situation to have to go around.
00:33:38.860 It's just too much.
00:33:41.440 It's a lot to ask of the people.
00:33:43.740 And mind you, these are the same people whose islands were fought over by the United States and Japan during World War II.
00:33:56.580 This is, it was from Tinian where they launched atomic bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
00:34:02.820 It was these islands where they refer to as the Marianas Turkey shoot, where there's, you know, there's so much heavy fighting in the air.
00:34:12.300 and our people were caught in the crossfire of all this
00:34:19.040 and people starving and hiding out in caves
00:34:21.620 and all this kind of stuff.
00:34:23.620 And people should not continue to believe in the propaganda
00:34:27.040 that the United States came here to save their followers 0.99
00:34:30.180 and their tomorrows from the Japanese 0.82
00:34:32.360 because that's complete hogwash. 1.00
00:34:34.980 That's propaganda.
00:34:36.580 People need to understand is that the United States
00:34:39.500 fought to wrestle these islands from Japan
00:34:44.260 because they needed a strategic place 0.76
00:34:47.240 from which to launch the atomic bombs on Japan.
00:34:51.080 It had nothing to do with coming here 0.83
00:34:52.940 to save the followers and the Chamorros from the Japanese. 0.99
00:34:57.980 So let's just be true and honest about that. 0.99
00:35:02.720 So even with all the negotiations that we went through 0.99
00:35:08.520 And if you talk to the Carolinian or the Falwash negotiators, they'll tell you that, you know, they just were not prepared to accept the Commonwealth as the status that they should choose. 0.98
00:35:21.880 But that seemed to be the status that was pushed and foisted upon them. 0.87
00:35:27.940 But anyway, even after all the things that the people gave up to become a part of the United States, one of the most important things is that we continually do feel like we are the stepchildren of America.
00:35:47.380 We are not given equal rights, even though America is big on brandishing its democracy and equal rights and all that. But we can't vote for the president because we live here. We have to move to the United States in order to have that privilege.
00:36:09.060 We do not have really a voice in Congress because our elected representative has no vote in the U.S. Congress.
00:36:19.960 And so even though we are, quote unquote, U.S. citizens, it's a watered down version of that.
00:36:28.600 But we also know that the United States often looks at our status and they will say that we are U.S. soil if it's to the United States' advantage, but we're not if it's not to the United States' advantage.
00:36:44.160 So, we felt like we, in good faith, gave up what we could, as much as we could, to be adopted into the American political family. But, you know, in practicality, we just were not accepted fully into that family.
00:37:01.760 And so that always leaves a sting, because our people, as I said, are patriotic. They serve in the military. They support the United States. I don't think that people, even back in the beginning, were 100% convinced that this was the right thing to do.
00:37:21.720 And even today, some are still not convinced this is the right thing to do.
00:37:24.940 But, you know, our question is, how much is too much to convey our loyalty to being U.S. citizens and to be patriots?
00:37:37.940 Because I think that, you know, it's not fair that we're from this very tiny community and we aren't necessarily.
00:37:46.660 I mean, yes, we do get funding. That's always thrown in our faces, that we get grants and funding, disaster relief and all that. But who doesn't? Name me what state that does not really get that. Well, maybe Puerto Rico had some problems recently. But I'm just saying that we're not treated equally. That hurts us.
00:38:06.600 And so that is a big source of concern for us is the fact that we are being asked to sacrifice so much more.
00:38:15.620 You know, if you were to maybe go to Iowa and ask the people if they would ever accept the kind of military trainings that are being proposed for our backyard, they're going to look at you like, get out of here.
00:38:32.480 And therein lies the problem.
00:38:34.740 We want the American people who believe that just don't really know what's being done to us or what's being planned for us.
00:38:43.520 Because I really don't think that they would support this kind of bullying.
00:38:50.140 So I'm really, I'm really, truly grateful.
00:38:52.640 We're all very grateful for this opportunity to come on your show and bring this to national attention.
00:39:01.460 because we certainly are out here in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.
00:39:06.840 We are so far out of sight, out of mind.
00:39:11.980 You know, we are just out here.
00:39:14.640 But yet, you know, if you think about what the military plans to do,
00:39:19.720 it's just overwhelming.
00:39:21.500 It's very concerning to us.
00:39:24.640 And we have such high rates of cancer.
00:39:28.780 I myself am a cancer survivor.
00:39:30.780 I had cancer twice.
00:39:33.380 And the people were very concerned about that.
00:39:36.580 And the other thing is the military is known for arriving and taking indigenous lands and polluting it and then just turning their backs.
00:39:46.780 Kelly Iken Tenorio, the daughter of the Lake Chief Iken, he was a demolition chief.
00:39:53.220 And Kelly shares the story of deathbed confession.
00:39:57.540 He says, I feel sorry for you guys for what we buried here.
00:40:02.500 There's so much that was buried here that people don't even know about.
00:40:06.920 And, for example, the PCB containers that were left behind in World War II, you know,
00:40:14.260 all these people were sitting around on them watching baseball games or even used to them for barbecues.
00:40:21.180 And then they found out that it was leaking PCB and all this kind of stuff.
00:40:26.340 And it really took the voices of citizens.
00:40:31.620 My organization was called, and we joined the local citizens of Tanata to fight back.
00:40:38.720 And we fought that battle with the help of Greenpeace Australia, who came to Saipan and fought with us.
00:40:46.620 And just bringing the national attention to the problem and forcing the United States to listen to our government and to do something about cleaning up the PCD, which they attempted to do by, you know, removing a lot of sand and all that kind of stuff.
00:41:04.400 But, you know, damage is done because we have a lot of cancer for such a small community, you know, and that's not the only thing.
00:41:12.740 I mean, we're talking about toxicity that's created in the air and water.
00:41:18.180 You know, you plant your fruits and vegetables and you eat them.
00:41:22.980 And if that comes from contaminated soil, obviously that's going to end up in your system.
00:41:29.340 Now they're talking about conducting these deadly sonar testings in our waters.
00:41:34.820 You know, pollen is known for these beautiful dolphins that frolic in the Pagan Bays at 7.30 in the morning.
00:41:42.740 So it really concerns me that we would not even get a chance to see them continue that
00:41:53.840 because of the Sonar Testaments being planned, and there are also whales that migrate in our water.
00:41:59.920 So when the military, the big, mighty U.S. military is up against you,
00:42:07.060 So, you know, the only thing we can do is to educate, educate, sound the alarm, get people all over the world who can help us to stand beside us.
00:42:20.460 And for our brothers and sisters in America, in the United States, you have the power that we don't.
00:42:28.300 You have representatives in U.S. Congress.
00:42:31.720 Please pick up the phone and call them.
00:42:34.880 Please write them.
00:42:36.560 Let them know what's happening to us here, because I know that our lives matter.
00:42:43.520 We deserve to live in good and clean environments, to raise our families.
00:42:50.500 We're not asking for special treatment, anything more than what the families in the United States are entitled to.
00:42:59.560 Even in our Constitution, it guarantees us a free and clear and healthy environment.
00:43:05.840 I don't think that what the United States military is planning to do is, in keeping with our Constitution, it will be a blatant violation of our Constitution.
00:43:18.680 So I also appeal to our local leaders to take a stand.
00:43:24.440 And also some of them could be more aggressive or take a stronger stand in speaking out about this.
00:43:33.180 But some of them are concerned about speaking up because they don't want to be perceived as being anti-military.
00:43:41.680 But for God's sake, let's not be so concerned about people's perceptions and let's get down to reality.
00:43:49.640 If we don't speak up and put a stop to this, then our air, our lands, our waters would all be polluted.
00:43:59.220 and what kind of life would we all have
00:44:02.480 when we have no economy to speak of
00:44:04.900 because no one would ever want to come here.
00:44:08.180 So this is living history.
00:44:10.840 We are at a pivotal moment when we can speak up
00:44:15.740 and say, no, we don't accept this.
00:44:18.860 You know, this is a human rights issue.
00:44:22.300 You know, we have a right to decide this whole thing,
00:44:26.340 how we fight back.
00:44:27.360 And I believe that our ancestors left us with a heritage and legacy, and we are the people of the islands. We should be the navigators. We are ocean-fearing people.
00:44:44.380 we need to control our destiny
00:44:47.480 we need to have the final say
00:44:50.000 in how we should live
00:44:52.180 we need to protect our heritage
00:44:54.220 our culture
00:44:55.120 and all these bombings
00:44:57.280 are not going to help us do that
00:45:00.400 they will destroy our civilization
00:45:02.720 they will destroy our identities
00:45:05.340 they will destroy who we are
00:45:08.920 and if they dispossess us of our lands
00:45:13.680 then we will cease to exist
00:45:16.320 because we will have nowhere to call home.
00:45:43.680 guitar solo
00:46:13.660 is down on me, it ain't too much to see, I need somebody up here in my door, straight ahead there's a long long road, a road that's nowhere.
00:46:43.660 Oh, there's no way I can, oh, you're so long, so long, all the sweetest thing I ever, I ever saw. 0.86
00:47:00.900 One thing I want to talk about with the militarization of Pagan, and correct me if I'm
00:47:11.080 wrong, but as I understand it, there's this battle that's been going on since the military's
00:47:16.700 first proposals back in 2013, which prompted a federal lawsuit by the Tinian Women's Association,
00:47:23.120 the Guardians of Ghani, Pagan Watch, and the Center for Biological Diversity, represented
00:47:28.100 by earth justice and last year they lost their case in federal court and have now appealed to
00:47:34.020 the ninth circuit so i'm wondering if you could share the current status of the lawsuit today as
00:47:39.000 well as how our community can take action in resisting the militarization of pagan
00:47:43.660 thank you for asking that question my organization pagan watch is one of the three
00:47:52.980 local indigenous groups who are co-plaintiffs.
00:47:58.240 Teen and Women's Association is one, Pagan Watch is one,
00:48:01.520 Guardians of Ghani is one,
00:48:03.600 and our fourth co-plaintiff is the Center for Biological Diversity.
00:48:08.260 And we are so blessed to have Earth Justice
00:48:12.780 agree to represent us in this fight.
00:48:16.140 The main thing about the lawsuit has to do with the United States
00:48:20.600 no dairy compliance with NEPA requirements.
00:48:24.140 And I had touched upon this earlier when I talked about the need for them to inform
00:48:31.740 the community of what their plans are to enable the common period so that people would know
00:48:37.860 as they read through the environmental impact statements what the actual impacts would be
00:48:42.960 and for them to reveal the cumulative impact of the trainings and also to consider alternative
00:48:49.360 training locations. And as I shared earlier, when the decision was made to relocate the
00:48:57.320 Marines to Guam, the Navy had replied that they did not need any more training facilities
00:49:04.120 outside of Guam. So we sued basically for segmenting the actual training because I talked
00:49:11.800 about how they tried to be really slick about this and carved up the whole training proposal
00:49:19.260 into five different pieces so that they would try to minimize, you know,
00:49:25.960 the horrific project that they're planning for our region.
00:49:30.380 And so, unfortunately, we lost our case in district court.
00:49:36.860 The federal judge did not find that where she dismissed a couple of our causes of action.
00:49:45.480 But basically, what it boiled down to is she did not believe that there was any NEPA violation at all, which we just can't fathom how she could come up with that decision.
00:49:56.460 And so, yes, we did appeal the case. And so the Navy had asked for an extension on their time to apply to a brief.
00:50:08.680 And so the circuit granted them their request for a second extension.
00:50:15.480 So we're at that point now where we're waiting to find out what's really going to happen.
00:50:20.580 Because what we envision happening is if they truly are complying with the requirements of NEPA,
00:50:30.940 then they would find the violations are blatant.
00:50:35.520 And so we hope that they would throw this out and have them start from scratch.
00:50:41.860 You know, at the very least, you know, we're not kidding ourselves.
00:50:45.860 You know, as much as we would love to say, hey, in an ideal world, we would just stop the military.
00:50:52.540 But you know what?
00:50:54.120 We're not even thinking that we have the resources and the might to even stop them.
00:51:01.820 They're cold, but maybe we can slow them down.
00:51:06.400 That's part of the reason why we have our hopes on the lawsuit, but we can't pin all our hopes on the lawsuit.
00:51:13.500 We need to continue to look for alternative ways that we can fight back, which has a lot to do with educating our local community, as well as the world.
00:51:26.620 about what's happening, because I believe that the U.S. Congress has a lot, has a big role to play
00:51:32.360 in influencing the military. So that's why we want the American public, the American community,
00:51:41.140 the American people to hear our voices, to hear our applied, and to, my gosh, I invite them to
00:51:48.360 come out and visit us and see for yourselves these blessed, beautiful islands, why we don't
00:51:55.660 want them to be bombed to smithereens and turning to wastelands. In doing research for this
00:52:03.460 interview, one of the most interesting realities I came across was the multitude of information
00:52:07.780 on the United States and China's struggle over Pacific domination, specifically the string of
00:52:14.120 islands across the Pacific Ocean that are a focal point for both Washington and Beijing.
00:52:20.000 And I'm wondering if you could share more about how the Mariana Islands are understood as an area
00:52:24.720 in which power and dominance have been set to brush against each other
00:52:28.480 long before the rest of the world becomes privy
00:52:31.080 to these developing conflicts and power struggles.
00:52:35.220 I know.
00:52:36.840 And see, that's the thing.
00:52:38.540 If it's not Korea, it's China. 0.59
00:52:41.500 And we'll continue to be trampled upon 0.58
00:52:45.160 as long as the superpowers decide that
00:52:49.220 we are strategic locations in which they can battle over us.
00:52:54.480 I mean, it's unfortunate. It's not like we can pick up and move our island somewhere else to save ourselves. One of my colleagues said, do you know of another planet we can move to?
00:53:08.180 It's very distressing because I know that during the war of wars between Trump and Kim Jong-un, you know, there was the threats against Guam.
00:53:20.940 Of course, we are just so close to Guam that we can't help but feel alarmed that if such threats were to take place, that obviously we would not be spared either.
00:53:33.900 But then you talk about all these ramping up all these military facilities around us to a point where, like I said, we are ground zero. How is that a sure protection?
00:53:48.980 I mean, it's also inviting.
00:53:51.800 It's also the flip side of that.
00:53:53.640 It's also putting us at a grave danger also.
00:53:57.340 Because when you talk about training exercises, you know, there's accidents that happen or unexploded ordnance that are left behind that could explode upon impact. 0.93
00:54:10.280 I know that we're bullied because they also bring up China.
00:54:13.400 But I can't believe that the whole defense of the United States rests solely on our area.
00:54:25.300 I just think that the United States has all these powerful allies in the region.
00:54:32.000 And yes, Okinawa, Japan, wants to reduce the population.
00:54:35.900 But I strongly believe that there are other places in the world that can really come to the defense and that we are certainly, that remains to be seen. I don't know what else to say about that.
00:54:50.220 Well, in closing, Sinta, I so appreciate your bravery and your knowledge on these topics and for sharing it with us. It's an enormous undertaking and it's so important for us to hear what's happening for you and the people and the non-human kin that live with you in these islands. 1.00
00:55:15.480 And in this closing time we have together, is there anything that you wanted to mention 1.00
00:55:20.760 that you haven't been able to so far that you feel is really mandatory for us to be
00:55:25.640 able to walk away with?
00:55:28.260 I just want to reiterate that we can't fight this fight alone, that we are all global
00:55:35.580 citizens, we all live on one planet, and that what happens to us today could maybe
00:55:43.120 It could be happening in your yard tomorrow.
00:55:46.080 I sure hope not.
00:55:47.420 But I believe that we all deserve to live in this world, in a peaceful world.
00:55:55.400 And so I'm just inviting, you know, your listeners, everyone to please help us, support us.
00:56:04.000 If they could help us fund our fight and our lawsuit, they can contact me about how to do that.
00:56:13.800 My email is cinta, C-I-N-T-A-M, like Mary, kipad, T-A-I-P, like Peter, A-T, like Tom, at gmail.com.
00:56:25.460 They can contact me through my email if they wish to help us fight back by donating so we can continue with our lawsuit and take it as far as we can.
00:56:37.960 And also, I just wanted to mention that what I even shared with you is just, you know, a small portion of, you know, the actual, there's so much information.
00:56:48.300 And that's part of the problem is that they just want to just keep us bombarded with so much information.
00:56:55.260 They don't even know what's coming or going.
00:56:57.900 But I'm very fortunate that I do work alongside very smart and caring people that I would encourage you to invite onto your program because they will definitely enrich this discussion and enlighten the people more.
00:57:15.200 Thank you so much, Ayana.
00:57:17.180 Thank you, Sinta. And we stand with you and want to support you and garner more support
00:57:26.240 through our networks at For the Wild. I agree that what you're fighting for is you're really
00:57:31.560 fighting for all people. We are connected by the oceans. And I think about the bombing that's
00:57:38.320 happening, you know, off the coast of California, Alaska, and beyond. And if we can't stop it in one
00:57:45.040 place they will be coming for other places next we can't run away from this even if we think that
00:57:50.760 it's not happening to us and so i think that's a really important point and um thank you so much
00:58:15.040 Thanks for listening to another episode of For the Wild Podcast.
00:58:23.780 I'm audio producer Andrew Storrs.
00:58:26.020 The music you heard today was by Pura Fae,
00:58:28.920 along with some traditional recordings from the Mariana Islands.
00:58:32.440 I'd like to thank our host, Ayanna Young.
00:58:35.420 The research and writing for today's episode was done by Francesca Glassbell.
00:58:40.180 Our social media coordinator is Aaron Wise,
00:58:42.780 and our music coordinator is Carter Lou McElroy.
00:58:46.320 Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next week.