00:02:16.580and in 2015, hundreds of protectors held vigil and created blockades.
00:02:21.820Ultimately, the TMT permit was upheld in Hawaii's Supreme Court,
00:02:25.820despite the fact that it does not meet the required criteria to build in a conservation zone.
00:02:31.680In June of 2019, the Department of Land and Natural Resources issued a notice for the TMT construction to proceed.
00:02:39.960On July 15, 2019, TMT was scheduled to begin construction.
00:02:45.400In response, eight protectors chained themselves to a cattle guard in the early morning
00:02:49.900to prevent equipment vehicles from accessing the Mauna.
00:02:53.760Over the following hours, hundreds of protectors joined in solidarity.
00:02:58.200No arrests were made until July 17, 2019,
00:03:02.200when DLNR officers arrested 38 people, most of whom were elders.
00:03:07.800Following the arrest, the governor of Hawaii declared a state of emergency,
00:03:11.880allowing for the deployment of the National Guard.
00:03:14.740Since then, the National Guard has been called off,
00:03:17.340and the inter-island police troops have been sent home.
00:03:20.860But Governor Ige and TMT International Observatory
00:03:23.860have both stated that they have no intent to halt the construction.
00:03:28.480Amidst this process, the governor has spread false narratives
00:03:31.060and continued to ignore the wishes of native Hawaiians.
00:03:34.780The United States cannot continue to rule over Hawaii,
00:03:38.400nor should Canada, Japan, China, India,
00:03:41.420or any multinational corporation operating under the guise of an objective science.
00:03:47.240The Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation do not get to throw their money around
00:03:51.080and decide the permanent fate of a place and its people.
00:03:54.780We do not need to, quote, understand the advent of the universe
00:03:58.340through an 18-foot story-tall telescope.
00:04:01.760We need to listen to the heart of mountains, the tongues of rivers,
00:04:06.100to the calls of fiercely loving and protecting our Earth,
00:04:08.920and most importantly, we need to recognize indigenous sovereignty in action.
00:04:14.240For too long, Kanakameoli have been oppressed by settler colonialism.
00:04:19.740For too long, they have been taken advantage of by U.S. interest,
00:04:23.560beginning with the overthrow of the Hawaii Kingdom by United States-backed businessmen in 1893.
00:04:30.240For too long, they have been voicing their dissent against the TMT, and it has fallen on silent ears.
00:04:37.220We now have the obligation to not only listen, but to respond in solidarity.
00:04:42.840We do not need to understand or rationalize, but merely recognize the request of hundreds of thousands of protectors across the Pacific.
00:04:52.060This week, we rebroadcast Pua Case's interview in honor of the heart of a mountain and the rising of a nation.
00:05:00.080today we have the honor and pleasure of speaking with pua case thank you so much for being on the
00:05:13.960show with us today aloha everyone i want to just begin this conversation by sharing my gratitude
00:05:21.740for you and your work in the world and the mountain that you live in devotion to mauna kea
00:05:29.860It's really an honor to share space with you in this way.
00:05:33.000And I'd love to ask you to open this conversation up in any way that you feel called, whether that's a prayer, a song, or a bit of the story of Mauna Kea.
00:05:45.480You know, how Mauna Kea has guided your life and the life of your community and the lives of your ancestors.
00:05:52.740I will start as I would when greeting my mountain or my people, and I start with introducing my mountain.
00:06:05.760So Mauna Awa Kea Kuumauna. Mauna Ke is my mountain. Waikoloa Ame Kohakohau Kuumauka Hawaii. Waikoloa and Kohakohau are the waters that flow.
00:06:22.740and nourish me. And Pu'ukapu is the place of my birth. And I come from Mokuo Keawe,
00:06:33.300island of Hawaii, which many will know as the big island. But it is Hawaii Island, Mokuo Keawe.
00:06:42.160And the reason that we start by introducing our mountain, our waters, the place of our birth and our island name in cultural protocol is because they are more than mountains and water and land masses.
00:07:06.000They are ancestors. They are teachers. They are our link to our lineage. And they remind us of our responsibility. And when we speak their names first, we are also reminded that what we say in a conversation, especially a conversation that is reaching beyond our community, beyond our households,
00:07:35.000households to places where we will be speaking for the first time to many ears that have not
00:07:43.940ever heard of us. We are therefore reminded that what we say, we say in the best way that we can
00:07:52.200to honor the mountain that I'm looking at right now, the highest mountain in the world from the
00:07:59.920the floor, that I am accountable and responsible for what I am going to be saying here right
00:08:14.440And so that's why I introduced myself in that way.
00:08:19.200Well, thank you for reminding all of us to be accountable and responsible for the places
00:08:27.640that hold us and that relationship with land that is so much deeper than the dominant culture
00:08:37.560conditions us to believe and I want to speak about your mountain and from what I understand
00:08:45.620there has been scientific infrastructure or development atop Mount Achaea since the 1970s
00:08:53.100And in the past decade, there have been plans brewing for the construction of the largest telescope in the Northern Hemisphere, the TMT or 30 meter telescope, which after a lengthy contested case hearing, which you were a part of, was approved this September.
00:09:11.900And I looked through the Board of Land and Natural Resources statement on the decision,
00:09:17.980and honestly, much of the wording just made me sick to my stomach.
00:09:22.980I want to read a few quotes so that the audience can just be aware of what's coming out of this.
00:09:28.660Quote, the TMT will not pollute groundwater, will not damage any historic sites,
00:09:34.340will not harm rare plants or animals, will not release toxic materials,
00:09:39.300and will not otherwise harm the environment another quote the tmt site and its vicinity
00:09:44.980were not used for traditional and customary native hawaiian practices conducted elsewhere on
00:09:50.260mauna kea another quote some native hawaiians express that mauna kea is so sacred that the
00:09:56.440very idea of large structure is offensive but there are already 12 observatories on mauna kea
00:10:02.320some of them almost as large as the tmt they will remain even if the tmt is not built
00:10:08.220no credible evidence was presented that the TMT would somehow be worse from a spiritual or cultural
00:10:14.860point of view other than the large observatories. This conquer culture really never ceases to shock0.86
00:10:22.080me at this point anymore. Not only was the land underfoot the development stolen by the U.S.0.64
00:10:29.200government, but also the unique endemic species of Mauna Keita are threatened with extinction in
00:10:35.440this new climate paradigm. And if that's not enough, you are still being asked to define
00:10:41.740the sacredness of Mauna Kea within the bounding terms of the colonizer.
00:10:46.700Oh, my goodness, yes. Well, first of all, all of those comments that you read out, first of all,
00:10:56.420are all false as far as what we have not shown evidence about, what we have not proven,
00:11:04.060or what the TMT is claiming, the corporation is claiming, as no impact on the mountain.
00:11:13.460So if we look at the TMT, well, we'll look even before that.
00:11:18.100The first small approval for a really tiny structure on the mountain came in 1968.
00:11:26.660And with that approval, slowly over time, it's very tricky how some of those other telescopes became approved, if you will, based on the first permit, based on approvals after the fact.
00:11:45.880There's a lot that went on for the first 13 telescopes to be built on the mountain.
00:11:52.780And I have to say there's always been opposition to all of the telescopes being up there.
00:12:01.660But what made this one erupt into a unified force of people to say enough is enough is, one, the fact that this TMT will be 18 stories covering over 12 and a half acres on the northern plateau,
00:12:26.700which is pristine, not developed at all.
00:12:32.140There is no more room for any more telescopes on the summit.
00:12:38.820The summit has been completely filled and altered with all of the telescopes up there.
00:12:47.420So now they have to move into an area that I look at every morning,
00:12:54.300the northern plateau, they call it, and the telescope would, if built, be erected, constructed
00:13:04.100there. So we entered into the case as the last of six petitioners in about 2010. The ruling
00:13:17.280was favorable for the permit after the contested case. And then the groundbreaking in 2014
00:13:29.780was going to take place. And that's when it was stopped by the people. So in order to see
00:13:42.420the immensity of what happened right there. We take a look at the Hawaii that is known around
00:13:49.860the world. Paradise, tourist Mecca, beautiful scenery and landscape, and all of that is very
00:14:00.040true. Aloha spirit, Hawaiian culture. Really, I think the world had no idea. Well, they still
00:14:09.660don't. They don't have an idea of the issues that we face on a daily basis from bombing on the slopes
00:14:17.240of Mauna Kea, live fire, to GMO, to overdevelopment in our whole island chain, to all of the things
00:14:28.700that we face every day. There's an issue for every moment in Hawaii. But you don't see that.
00:14:36.840So when a people said enough is enough, this will be the one too big, the one too many, the one where you have overstepped, you are not welcomed here on the Mauna,
00:14:52.140the one that will cause irreparable damage, even as cited in UH reports, that this would be irreparable damage to the mountain.
00:15:06.240Even then, I think people had no idea that coming forth out of this permit application would be a rise of our people who would say, not this time.
00:15:22.640This mountain is still sacred and we are connected to it.
00:15:27.620But not only that, you have to meet eight criteria legally, binding, in order to build in a conservation zone on the top of that mountain.
00:15:41.520And there is no way that building this monstrosity will meet the eight criteria to build.
00:17:00.980I believe that it has been reported by the TMT Corporation that if they don't begin to build in spring of 2018, they have located an alternate site, which is the Canary Islands.
00:17:16.780We are not advocating for the TMT to go to the Canary Islands. We want to make that clear. We are not looking for another people who will have to oppose and stand as we have unless they want it there. And maybe they will.
00:17:33.920I don't know that, but we are not advocating for that, but we are saying not this time over our water source, not this time on the top of a sacred mountain, and not this time on a land base that you cannot even meet the criteria to build on, but still you will.
00:17:54.100And I believe that's because it is not only scientific and education, which is always, pardon me, everyone, rammed down our throats.
00:18:20.500So I believe it is because it is five countries that have banded together to propose this, that the permit must be given by our government no matter what.
00:18:39.100And so we are forced into a situation where we will rise.
00:19:50.480so many potent statements that I want to circle back around to and thank you for well one just
00:19:58.220explaining the complex legal system that this whole infrastructure of telescope is a part of
00:20:07.440I mean it's complicated I think for a reason also you spoke about these other issues in Hawaii the
00:20:15.100GMOs, the bombings, and it's so important to recognize those things for outsiders or
00:20:23.740for mainlanders who may look at Hawaii as this tropical paradise vacation area, not
00:20:30.780really understanding the depths of the issues that are going on that you are at the front
00:20:38.400lines of and to really respect the trials and tribulations that you're dealing with.
00:20:43.300And then I just also want to mention, I can't imagine what the impacts and consequences are of you having to communicate this intrinsic connection to the mountain in a way that is palatable for Western judicial system, the government and academia.
00:21:02.920You know, I do want to ask, how is that on your spirit to have to, you know, put this sacredness in this boxed in terminology? You know, it's all in the name of science, all in the name of education.
00:21:17.840And I'd love to hear your thoughts on how you walk the line between the two as you are praying and singing and dancing and connecting, but also having to live in this colonizer judicial world of, I have a lot of words for it, but I'll just stop myself.
00:21:38.340First of all, you know, we have to understand that we are born and raised into this system.
00:21:45.000Colonization, Christianity, the patterning that occurred here in Hawaii has occurred many, many years ago.
00:21:56.380We understand that when we defend, protect, or even in daily life, Hawaii for us is not a state of the United States of America, you know, by way of our history and illegal annexation and all of those things.
00:22:15.700But having said that, we are in a society here that is very westernized and has been assimilated, whether it's through our education, our government, economics, you know, we are part of it.
00:22:30.440We are in this. And so we are no stranger to this kind of living where we are attempting, where we are managing to live, not in both worlds, only in one world, but managing to keep our own culture, connection, tradition, languaging, spirituality, deities.
00:23:00.440all as intact as we can, and yet operate and maneuver in a system that is not very often
00:23:10.840set up for us to be successful. So we are knowing and understanding this is the life
00:23:17.140that we live in. But at the same time, we are also very aware that we are in that moment in time
00:23:27.880And here in Hawaii, and I know for many other Native peoples as well, because I'm well-traveled and I have been to other front lines and have been an ally elsewhere as well as a frontline Native here.
00:23:45.220So getting to see the different movements, we understand, I think, as the planet, that we are in a very specific time right now, where if we do not stand for what we deem sacred, what we deem essential to the existence for the next seven generations of a culture and a way of life,
00:24:12.480that we are not, we are not willing to give up, we are not willing to do that, that we
00:24:20.420have no choice, we have no choice, those of us in this, we have no choice but to stand.
00:24:28.640But having said that, yes, it is exhausting, it is challenging, it is consuming, it is
00:24:37.480a 24-7 for some of us, but yet there is a beauty to this time that I am so glad to say that I am
00:24:49.560in it. The witnessing I see of a transformation of the young ones into the warriors that are going
00:24:59.300to steward and safeguard is beautiful. That we are managing to stand before it is too late
00:25:08.300is by far just magical. That we are able to see that this unification is occurring from Hawaii
00:25:19.500to all parts of the world and that people are standing because we are standing and we are
00:25:25.880standing because others are standing and we are joining in this grid of energy, high energy in
00:25:33.780this dimension that was prophesied long ago, that we will stand and we will be they who were before
00:25:42.460us all over again. Those things make this worth it, that we can still hear the spirit world giving
00:25:52.140us direction that the mountain is our chief and our leader and what the mountain says is what we
00:26:00.040need to follow those things are ancient there are knowledge and customs and traditions just
00:26:08.140following the voice of your ancestors because you still hear them feel them and see them those
00:26:15.480things were commonplace in our past. And now we are beginning to hear them again. And because of
00:26:24.460that, this entire issue of building a telescope on our mountain, we say you thought you were going
00:26:33.740to raise a telescope, but instead you have helped to raise a nation. And for that, we see it all in
00:26:42.440its place where it is all meant to be so because of that it's not as exhausting as it could be
00:26:50.940and we have not really come into a danger yet at this time in our stance yes we have faced
00:27:01.060police yes we have faced armed officers but we have managed to do that in a way that has not
00:27:10.860cause a harm to us that might occur this next time around if the National Guard might be called
00:27:20.400or the military base which is right down side of the mountain so those things are something that
00:27:28.120we are considering right now as we take our next steps what's going to happen if we have to go up
00:27:36.100there the next time we know they're going to need to get us off quickly because they want to be able
00:27:42.980to say to the tmt corporation that there is a go-ahead here go ahead and build and so they'll
00:27:52.840need to get us off very quickly this time so there's a lot to think about here there's a lot
00:28:00.380for every movement to think about when they are considering standing it's not something to be
00:28:07.260romanticized or in any way looked upon like oh everybody let's go run up there you know
00:28:14.600there is danger there there's harm that could happen but yet we have to like all others who
00:28:23.700have to but we also see the beauty in what is occurring the music that has come out of this
00:28:31.760movement the the ways in which we are safeguarding our hawaii the bravery and courage that have come
00:28:42.060out of this movement the alliances with standing rock or california tribes who are standing for
00:28:49.480their salmon or their life ways. I could go on and on about what has happened that is so positive
00:28:56.840that it balances what is taking place here. But in the end, they cannot build on our mountain.
00:29:06.740It is not good for anyone. So if I will go into the spirit world for a moment,
00:29:12.940we know that our mountain speaks to the mountains around the world. We understand that there is
00:29:19.460There's an energy grid, a fascia, if you will, in that communication between the mountains.
00:29:25.760We have to be careful how we treat our mountaintops.
00:29:28.660The energy that goes from one mountain to another is essential for this planet.
00:29:35.520And we know it, and science knows it, and education knows it.
00:29:40.580We all know it, but we know it from the spiritual sense.
00:29:44.780so we must help to protect that that grid that unspoken communication and so i stand because of
00:29:56.940that i stand because the mountain has asked me to try one more time and i will but for all of us
00:30:04.180we stand for our own reasons but we are also standing for the integrity for the sacredness
00:30:11.340of that which still teaches us, shapes us, leads us, protects us, and that is our mountain.
00:30:22.200I just am so chilled in the best way by your connection to this mountain because I feel
00:30:32.600the mountain as you speak, and I loved what you said that they thought they were going
00:30:37.860to build a telescope but instead this is building a nation and I feel that in your words and I feel
00:30:46.400that in the the news and the stories that have been coming out of this movement that you've been
00:30:52.180so pivotal in and I appreciate your deep understanding that this is necessary and this
00:31:01.040is beautiful, but it is not something to be romanticized and it's not something to go
00:31:06.860into without a lot of mindfulness and thoughtfulness and prayer.
00:31:12.300And for many of us out there who are awakening to the realities of this time, I think so
00:31:17.100much comes up for different people, whether that's debilitation or rage, you know, this
00:31:22.720fire to fight back or to shrink, to stand up.
00:31:27.280And there's many ways to show up in this time.
00:31:31.040And I feel so resonant with how you are guiding folks to stand up in the way that is in love and listening to these spirit guides that you're speaking of.
00:31:45.980We made a pact early on that there would be no leader that would come out of this movement as far as human beings.
00:31:56.620There might be some like myself, I'm speaking to you right now because I've been in this and perhaps I have a role here where I am speaking, but in actuality, in reality, there are no true leaders for this movement.
00:32:14.100the mountain is our leader we listen to the mountain and when i say that and when people
00:32:21.120say well how can you listen to the mountain if you can't hear the mountain speak this mountain
00:32:26.720by means of the chant and the messages from the ancestors has always been the realm of the gods
00:32:36.200where our genealogy ties to the heavens to our ancestral realm it is where the deities and the
00:32:43.200elements dwell in nature. So because the mountain is deemed as you would perhaps think of it as a
00:32:52.760temple and a sanctuary, if you look at the mountain like that, there is a behavior, an expectation of
00:33:02.100conduct isn't there when you go to a church. You don't just go in there and bring your weapons in
00:33:08.480there and fight in there and swear in there and be less than when you enter into your holy place.
00:33:16.380So the mountain is a holy place. So just by means of that, the conduct in which we must abide by
00:33:25.680when we go up the mountain even to stand, we have to think about what would the mountain expect of
00:33:34.480us as far as our behavior and conduct when we are standing on the mountain. Now, when you have
00:33:41.980thousands of people coming up to stand, not everybody is in a place yet where they can hear
00:33:49.360that message or where they know immediately that the hills and nature itself, the plant life,
00:33:57.500the birds, the air, the wind, they are all messengers. And they are all reminding us of
00:34:04.560how to stand. Some people are there yet. Some people are being schooled. Some people aren't
00:34:10.340even there. They just know they have to run up a mountain and stand there, but they're not sure why.
00:34:15.900But the mountain is our training ground. It is a beautiful place to hold us accountable.
00:34:21.640And we are not there yet. We are in the learning and the training. And as you say, all of the unseen beings there, the elemental beings, the nature beings, we say that the mountain is even where the ocean begins.
00:34:39.440And so all of the ocean is up there in the form of the rainfall, the snowfall, precipitation.
00:34:48.360All of it ends up back on the mountain.
00:34:51.660So every element is represented on the mountain.
00:34:55.340So we are in a way we are all abiding by that when we are standing on the mountain.
00:35:04.840And for some of us, we understand that already.
00:35:07.300For me, I am learning. I am training. The mountain is also my teacher and also corrects me when I need it, because we are young in this movement. We are young in how to stand and protect our mountain as a unit.
00:35:25.340And so this is what we say to those who go to any movement, but I will just speak coming up the mountain. If you come up our mountain to help us to stand with us, one, we say you are a guest. Come as a guest. And we will instruct you and guide you and do not overstep as we would not overstep when we go to help you. We are your 10th line. We are quiet.
00:35:55.340in our movements when we come to your place we know protocol we know how to ask permission
00:36:02.940we know how to remain silent we know how to help when we are requested to help and we know
00:36:12.000how not to when we will get in the way we ask people to not judge us we are new at this we
00:36:21.240are working it out we are learning how to stand how to move how to feed each other all at the same
00:36:31.220time how to stand so don't judge us we are doing the very best we can with what we know and what
00:36:42.120we are learning in the moment and it is not easy to do all of that so if you must judge us then
00:36:52.160please go home be compassionate while we are working it out just hold us that's all so there
00:37:01.420is so much that goes into this from the realm on the other side from the realm on this side
00:37:09.080But I am just one of many, many in the Mauna Kea Ohana, many in the world Ohana family that are beginning to see that this is what we must do and that it's part of our responsibility.
00:37:27.880one as humans but also as native people of these places we were given the privilege of being able
00:37:37.860to say we were first to a place because we made an agreement in our ancestral realm that we would
00:37:44.880take care of it but outside forces make it extremely difficult to take care of the places
00:37:54.280in the ways that we should be so this is what we are here for isn't it to try to work it out
00:38:01.640so when i'm looking at the mountain right now i see a little bit of snow left on the mountain
00:38:08.020and i know that poliahu the snow goddess premier is in residence and when she snows
00:38:17.000She reminds us that they are still in charge, that we are in their domain, and they could easily shake every building off of the mountain.
00:38:32.440But I believe that they have allowed this process to work its way through because they have seen that we have needed the schooling and the guidance and the opportunity to stand together.
00:38:50.640But the mountain has already told us that the TMT will never be built.
00:38:56.180So we must trust and believe in that, that when the time comes, if need be, and we can stand no longer, we will turn it back to the mountain herself and say, it is your turn.
00:39:49.200Thank you for taking the time to listen in to this week's episode.
00:39:59.460We urge you to take action in the following ways.
00:40:02.640First, contact both Governor Ige and Mayor Kim.
00:40:05.840As of last week, Governor Ige announced that Hawaii County Mayor Kim will take over both county and state efforts to reach an agreement with protectors.
00:40:13.460It is imperative that we continue to remind them of the violence that TMT will perpetuate.
00:40:19.200Second, submit an official comment on TMT construction via the Governor's website.
00:40:24.520Third, sign the petition demanding the immediate halt to the construction of the TMT telescope on Mauna Kea.
00:40:31.200And lastly, email and call those who sit on the Board of Governors for the TMT who have officially stated that they do not have any intention of backing out.
00:40:39.840For a list of contact information, instructions, and templates to take these actions, please visit our website or this episode's detail notes.
00:40:47.920We also have links to different organizations and campaigns that are accepting donations, prayers for Mauna Kea, and other resources.
00:41:17.920So much came up as I was enveloped in your words and your energies and this idea of being young in the movement and being schooled and having humility when showing up and the protocols of how to show up.
00:41:39.240And it makes me think about the scientists and the academics who are not heeding that warning of how to show up in a good way and the humility of knowing their place on earth as young ones and not as the rulers and the ones with power.
00:42:00.940and i can understand that through a scientific lens there's this yearning of wonder for the
00:42:10.900stars and the cosmos and to feel like you're a part of something greater than yourself and
00:42:15.880but it seems that now in this age of the anthropocene then instead of revering the
00:42:24.300night sky and awe as this grounding force in our smallness in the universe the stars have become
00:42:32.840this next frontier in the dominant culture as all the frontiers on this planet have been
00:42:38.640pillaged and mined and logged or just covered in garbage and plastic how do we carry ourselves in
00:42:47.080this end of times this extinction period when all the ice is melting the flames are engulfing
00:42:55.240especially where we live in california oregon washington british columbia the soil are no
00:43:03.600longer willing to nurture food plants in the same ways and rivers are losing their water and there's
00:43:08.840violence and aggression and i could go on and on on these atrocities that are happening and
00:43:14.800And I guess I wonder, you know, when will the point come when enough is enough?
00:43:21.600When will the grieving beings be enough to stop the quest for the next frontier once and for all?
00:43:29.440And deeper than that, I guess I'm wondering, when will we face our mortality as, you know, not just as individuals, but as a species?
00:43:39.340and this is a an intense question but do you foresee a time when humanity will be asked by
00:43:46.680the earth to begin to hospice ourselves well i would say that's happening right now
00:43:53.320i'm seeing that every day i'm seeing that happen everywhere when you look around at places you know
00:44:01.960we are all isolated in the world that exists right around us but if we really were given
00:44:10.260the opportunity and the lens to see what is happening real devastation on other places
00:44:17.560on this planet it has already begun years ago this is years in the making we are being given
00:44:24.680the chance to do what we can right now. But I'm going to take it back a little bit because there's
00:44:32.680some things that you said that I really want to address, especially about the scientific community,
00:44:39.280economics, corporations. It's much more than science. It's a lot about money. Money goes hand
00:44:45.820in hand with science in many times, many instances at the core of it all. It's like government.
00:44:54.260it's corporations, it's economy, it's science, it's money, all of that. It's a big, huge machine.
00:45:01.760But backing up even more, you know, we're not against science here, even in the Mauna Kea
00:45:08.860movement, even when we're on Mauna Kea, we have said all the way along, this is not about science
00:45:15.240versus culture but it is about versus irresponsible science because you come to us or anywhere in the
00:45:26.880name of science or education does not give you the right to take a people's lands to change a way of
00:45:35.600life to create irreparable damage physically emotionally mentally upon a people or a place
00:45:46.140science alone by that name education alone by that name does not give anyone the right and i think
00:45:54.660that there was a time period where we almost thought that it meant they did have that right
00:46:01.500And so that occurred. But at this point and time, irresponsible science and education that is not grounded in protection of life ways and places and sacredness, that is not pono, that is not correct, that is not universally sound.
00:46:26.900we have the right and the privilege and the birthright responsibility to stand when that
00:46:35.800occurs so what i would love to see evolve more is that when you are learning to become a scientist
00:46:47.160or even an educator i've been a teacher for over 30 years when you are being schooled
00:46:54.900You are also being schooled on the impact. You are being schooled on cultural sensitivity more than we have been. You really realize as a scientist when you come upon another people's lands about what that impact is and you understand what repercussion is.
00:47:15.080And you know and you learn that whatever decision and impact you make upon a people doesn't end when you retire or when you leave a project.
00:47:25.320It continues and it impacts your children and your grandchildren.
00:47:30.340And when you know that, you be more mindful and more careful about destroying in the wake of pursuing whatever it is that you are scientifically set up to do.
00:47:46.140Your experimentation, your hundreds and thousands and billions of dollars that you receive, you think about that that impact is going to go on and on.
00:48:00.340well beyond the time that you leave these places
00:48:04.240because these scientists, they come and go.
00:52:56.160This part of it is probably the hardest and yet the most important.
00:53:03.800So that's where we are working it out still.
00:53:07.020And we want to make sure that we say that. That's why we say, don't glamorize this. We are working hard just to be able to maintain a family structure as we stand. And if we ask for prayers, maybe it starts there. Yeah.
00:53:28.800Wow, Pua, you just have touched so many parts of my deepest self with your understanding of the movement and humanity and family and this divine sacrifice that you're speaking of.
00:53:54.900and I absolutely hear what you're saying you know when you made the comment of why can't we just go
00:54:01.440to the beach and why can't we just make art and why can't we just live as normal humans whatever
00:54:08.920that is but to stand in love and sacrifice for the land and for the water is all consuming but
00:54:17.180it does affect other parts of our lives and I am so grateful for your honesty and your directness
00:54:24.660and that it isn't a romantic part-time gig.
00:54:31.200I also want to just, you know, at the beginning of this question,
00:54:35.240you know, you had mentioned the hubris of science
00:54:39.980and how that's really what is pushing this forward.
00:54:44.460There's so much money and academic prowess
00:54:48.880put into, let's say, these telescopes,
00:54:51.860another form of conquering, the conquering of the skies, the conquering of some type of
00:54:57.280facts or whatever they're looking for. It's not to say that there's nothing interesting in that
00:55:03.660realm, but there's so much going on on earth. There's so much going on right here under our
00:55:10.480feet that needs care. The biodiversity extinction crisis, polluted waters, protection of so much.
00:55:19.580It's really strange to see this separation in people's minds.
00:55:25.600And then I also think about how science is dealing with climate change.
00:55:30.840And there's so much talk about putting billions of dollars into geoengineering, these really intense systems of spraying aluminum in the sky, instead of looking to these places and just protecting what we have or restoring Earth's natural systems.
00:55:47.560But there's this hubris there. And so that's why I asked that question earlier of when will we face this mortality, our mortality potentially as a human species, or it's this deeper question of the dominant culture and science and capitalism pushing so hard, risking everything, risking complete toxicity just for one more dollar, just for one more day.
00:56:14.520But here we are on earth, seeing the changes rapidly in front of us. And there's just this disconnect. And so I feel that when you're talking about standing, standing as these young ones, being schooled, being educated, being humble, but then seeing our human counterparts racing towards the cliff.
00:56:36.460and to try to take that all in and know the best way for those of us who see it in a way that you
00:56:45.720do to stand but also to you know understand the powers that be that are really taking so much of
00:56:52.480the power and doing things that affect all of us in the end. As I'm sitting here an owl has come
00:57:01.480into my purview here, into my eyesight, and it's flying around here.
00:57:07.100And for me, that's the aumakua, that's a family guardian.
00:57:10.660See, some people see an owl, I see a family guardian.
00:57:13.640And it reminds me to say that we have to take a bird's eye view instead of an ant view.
00:57:28.000And honestly, when I am sitting in, say, the Contessa case, and I hear Native Hawaiians or local youth who are pro the telescope, they actually are, as passionate as I am about Mauna Kea, they are about exploring, even if it destroys, in order to do that.
00:57:52.780So I have to really broaden my spirit to understand where they are coming from, too.0.59
00:58:02.660That is the first thing that I have to do, even if I don't agree with it.
00:58:07.260I have to understand that their passion is as my passion is, except it's on two different sides.
00:58:18.940So if I look at that already, I am a little bit clearer of what it is that we are truly either in opposition about or what really is the issue or how we forward.
00:58:36.140But I will say that even as we are compassionate, and we are in aloha not because of them, but because that's what our ancestors perhaps expect of us in how we proceed, because anger will not serve us this time.
00:58:55.460I know anger. I've been an activist since the 70s. I know what it is to be in rage, anger, depression, and despair from loss of so much of my Hawaii.
00:59:11.280And I know that it doesn't serve me and it doesn't serve our children. Our anger goes only home with them.
00:59:20.640so the way that we are standing now is out of necessity as well as being finally led
00:59:28.900however what i will say to anyone coming up the mountain that will stand on the other side
00:59:39.280is don't take my aloha for weakness i am fierce in the love for my hawaii
00:59:46.380And I will do whatever it takes in the end, but I will do it not in anger, but in the love of my land and my people and my understanding of what I must do.
01:00:05.180But again, we must also be straightforward in what we are going to do.
01:00:12.720But to look at all of those things that you just mentioned, for a weaker person, it could put us right down. You know what I mean? It could put us right under like, oh, my gosh, this is helpless and hopeless. And we are delving into the stars when we should be taking care of our own earth.
01:00:32.180Yes, that is all true, of course. But through the life patterns that we have seen for lifetimes in our history, we know that that is the way of the dominant culture, if we call it that, is to destroy and already be looking ahead.
01:00:52.560it destroys something and you know you're going to okay where's the next place we can go
01:00:58.920either to do it there or to try to bring about some restoration because we have just finished
01:01:07.980destroying something else that has occurred throughout history this is not the first time
01:01:14.320that these corporations have come to a Native people
01:01:18.540and displaced their cultural beliefs, rights, sacredness,
01:01:24.600broken laws to build what they want to do.
01:01:27.320These corporations, this is commonplace for them.
01:01:31.060If you go back into their histories and their alliances,
01:05:21.640You know, I'm very tied to California with the run for salmon, minimum wind too, and their journey and their stance to bring the salmon home to the rivers there.
01:05:34.060I know that there are situations for you in California that are big, and right now I'm just praying for those who are evacuating from the county of Ventura.
01:05:46.220so you know i mean i understand that there is much everywhere the major difference i think
01:05:54.240is that when you look at our land mass everything that you are facing there and all across the
01:06:01.620continent we face on an island the size of the head of a needle when you look at us in comparison
01:06:09.740and so we all are facing the same thing we just happen to be in a smaller land base with the same
01:06:18.260issues lucky it's so beautiful that it balances out a little lucky that it is not just beautiful
01:06:27.660but that we have a coast culture with ways that are for the most part intact
01:06:33.780that we can call upon and that we have these mountains that will protect us and steward us
01:06:42.360we just have to remember and do our due diligence right back yes and i think that beauty and that
01:06:50.820love is what will see us through day after day into the future for the next generations that
01:06:56.980that love is fierce and gentle and tender and powerful and I believe that the forest here where
01:07:07.100I'm doing redwood reforestation feels me and I feel them and it is the most fulfilling relationship
01:07:16.640to be in love and in family with this land and know that I will show up every day for them
01:07:24.700no matter what no matter what the climate changes no matter what the government says no matter
01:07:29.980what will happen in the future which i can't tell as a small human but what i do know is my love is
01:07:37.820true and i do know that the land's love is true and that is enough for me and i hear that in you
01:07:46.000And it is so, it has just been incredible to listen to your words and have insight into how you see this world and your mountain and really this global movement that more and more people every day are awakening to.
01:08:07.480I want to thank you so much and just ask that you end this conversation whatever way you feel fit for this moment. I want to open this up to you to choose.
01:08:20.560the way i want to end this conversation is truly by honoring i want to honor all of you
01:08:30.220first from california you have opened your hearts and your doors and your people to us
01:08:39.240so many times so to all of the tribes that have taken us in and all of the allies and all of the
01:08:47.300people who might be listening who have supported mauna kea who have supported us here in hawaii
01:08:55.900and we in turn who have supported you i would like to honor you and then just expand that out
01:09:03.420to all of you on the continent who are standing for what you believe in what is right what is
01:09:11.980truth I know how challenging it is and also how beautiful it is at the same time and so love and
01:09:20.800light to everyone out there aloha from all of us here but aloha from me from my heart to yours
01:09:28.300and I'll see you somewhere along the line on a front line and blessings for all of you who are
01:09:37.580standing right now on the front line our prayers are up for you so thank you so much for having me
01:09:44.780on this program for this conversation for the sharing of heart space and for the sharing of
01:09:52.800our mountain one to the other and so i'm going to bid everyone a deep felt aloha aloha to each of
01:10:03.640you heartfelt heart space with the heart of a mountain aloha
01:10:09.580thank you for listening to another episode of for the wild podcast i'm ayana young the music
01:10:25.720you heard today was from havani rios and mike wall i'd like to thank our podcast team for this
01:10:31.820episode, editing by Reach Out and March Young, research direction and writing Madison Migulski,
01:10:39.560and superb media prowess by Molly Lebo.