00:00:00.000Welcome to For the Wild podcast. I'm Ayanna Young.
00:00:04.020This week, we are rebroadcasting our interview with Ariel Saekwi-Durange,
00:00:09.460initially released in February of 2019.
00:00:13.100In this conversation, Ariel and I speak about Unistotin Camp in so-called British Columbia.
00:00:19.340On February 6, 2020, the RCMP initiated the second invasion on Wet'suwet'en territory,
00:00:26.140making multiple arrests outside of the Unastotent Healing Center.
00:00:31.060Because of the severity of this issue,
00:00:33.420we are choosing to release this episode without musical breaks
00:00:36.680in order to get you as much information as possible.
00:00:39.980We hope that you continue to learn about the topic
00:00:42.660and use the links and resources that Arielle provides throughout the episode.
00:00:47.280To learn more about how you can lend your support directly to Wet'suwet'en,
00:00:51.220please visit unastoughton.camp slash supporter toolkit 2020. Now on to the show.
00:01:02.220Ariel is the executive director and co-founder of Indigenous Climate Action,
00:01:07.300Canada's premier Indigenous-led climate justice organization. Ariel is a member of the Athabasca
00:01:13.440Chippewan First Nation and has over a decade of experience working with water protectors
00:01:17.660and land defenders in the fight against fossil fuel development. Ariel is internationally
00:01:22.600recognized and has worked with a variety of groups ranging from the Indigenous Environmental
00:01:26.500Network, Sierra Club Canada, the Rainforest Action Network, and the UN International Indigenous
00:01:32.280Peoples Forum on Climate Change, to name a few. It feels really nice to have you on as a friend
00:01:39.220and comrade, and so I just want to start off by saying I'm really happy to be talking to you.
00:01:45.840Thank you. Thanks for having me. I always love talking with you.
00:01:49.880So before we really begin to dive into the questions of this interview, I think it would be helpful to clarify just a few things about the Wet'suwet'en First Nation.
00:02:01.160So the Wet'suwet'en, and of course I may not be pronouncing it correctly, are located in the central interior of so-called British Columbia, and they're comprised of five clans.
00:02:13.180Within each of these clans are between two to three house groups.
00:02:18.080For example, the Unastotin are part of the Gil-Sehu clan.
00:02:23.200And currently, the Wet'suwet'en are facing the development of a pipeline on their unceded traditional territory.
00:02:29.600The pipeline is 415 miles long, and it's a liquefied natural gas pipeline that is to run from northeast BC to Kitimat's LNG Canada export terminal,
00:02:41.380which is owned by TransCanada which is the same corporation who funded Keystone XL. The pipeline
00:02:47.780is a 40 billion dollar project that is expected to be running by 2022. Now in response to previous
00:02:55.460pipeline projects the Wet'suwet'en established a checkpoint on their lands back in 2008 and in
00:03:02.9002015 all the hereditary chiefs agreed that no pipelines were to be built on their unceded
00:03:07.920territory. However, in November of 2018, Coastal Gas Link applied for an injunction. By December,
00:03:16.720the V.C. Supreme Court issued a temporary injunction prohibiting anyone from blocking
00:03:22.380the bridge and ordering the checkpoint to be dismantled immediately. Now, in response,
00:03:28.060Una Stotenkamp refused to remove their lawful checkpoint, and expecting the worst, the0.97
00:03:33.600Gidimtin established a second checkpoint. On January 7, 2019, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
00:03:41.600officers armed with battens and assault rifles crossed the Gidimtin checkpoint and arrested 14
00:03:49.800people. On January 10, the Wet'suwet'en hereditary chiefs met with RCMP officers and came to an
00:03:58.000agreement under the threat of continued state-sanctioned violence that they would comply
00:04:02.580with CGL's injunction. So now that we have that established, and please correct me if any of that
00:04:11.040is not up-to-date information, I wanted to now speak to, in the last two months, many media
00:04:17.580outlets have framed the Unastoten camp as a site of protest and resistance. Now, this portrayal
00:04:23.440confines the camp's existence solely in relationship to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and Trans
00:04:28.700Canada. So I'd love if you could begin by sharing the historical significance of the Unastoten camp
00:04:35.180in terms of reclamation and decolonization of community and connection to land. You know,
00:04:42.040what is the significance of this place beyond just the blockade? You know, that's a really,
00:04:47.120really, really important thing to discuss because I do think that the media has really sort of
00:04:53.180minimized the importance that this camp and this settlement, it's not a camp, because a camp
00:04:59.960implies something that's temporary, but it is a settlement where people have settled. It is not
00:05:05.240just a settlement of a few individuals, but it's a settlement of a community that's in the process
00:05:10.660of revitalizing and restoring, you know, the hereditary chief and clan house systems in not
00:05:17.440just as individuals with recognition and distinction, but as a restoration of what
00:05:23.540it means to be a clan house leader. And that means being back in your lands and territories,
00:05:29.720building that relationship, not just with your community, but building that relationship with
00:05:33.560land. And so some of the founders of the Unastoten settlement in 2010, so there was a, the settlement
00:05:43.120really began in 2010. And in the summer of 2010, some of the people that had been really sort of
00:05:49.600speaking out and joining the fight against the Alberta tar sands. And at that time,
00:05:54.760the territory was threatened by the Enbridge Northern Gateway Pipeline, which is now no
00:06:00.600longer a pipeline that's proposed. It's been taken away. The government has canceled that project.
00:06:05.660And that project was canceled largely in part from the participation of the folks in Unastoten,0.97
00:06:11.420through the folks in the Yinka-Dene Alliance, through the folks Haida Kwai, all the first
00:06:18.520stations along the corridor in British Columbia and parts of Alberta.
00:06:23.280And so there's a long history of these people looking to defend this land and this territory
00:06:28.420and restore it under the rightful jurisdiction of the hereditary leadership of the communities
00:06:35.500And so what I've seen and what I've witnessed is not just a protest and a camp be developed, but I've seen and I've witnessed how this land has been transformed into a place where people are reconnecting with their culture, with their identity, with what it means to have Indigenous governance and leadership in a true way that is connected and not governed by individuals, but really governed by the land.
00:06:59.320And that's really what we would talk about decolonization and this camp and this settlement and this protest and this action that's going off in BC is we minimize what it's meaning for the people and what it means for decolonization if we just talk about it as a protest and a camp.
00:07:18.420This is a place where people are beginning that process of true decolonization. And I've said it before, and I'll say it again, you know, the basic foundation of decolonization is a return of and connection to land.
00:07:33.660And when we start there, we start to see how it builds upon the languages that connects us to those places, the culture that connects to those places, and the governance, what it means to be governed by that land and protected in relationship with that land.0.86
00:07:48.840And that is what the hereditary and Klan House leaders of the Wet'suwet'en have been doing in that territory for the last 10 years. And they are being threatened by the continued neoliberal agenda of the Canadian and international governments to diminish what Indigenous sovereignty and governance really looks like.
00:08:08.620Now, I was reading that undergoing the threats of violence, the Wet'suwet'en chiefs agreed to comply with the CGL's injunction under the terms that RCMP would not interfere with traditional practices or trapping a lot of what you had just spoken to around these traditional practices and ways of keeping culture alive.
00:08:31.340Yet in late January, the Wet'suwet'en Nation stated that the CGL was intentionally destroying trap lines and tents and throwing them in shipping containers, then informing members that they had 24 hours to collect their belongings before they were dumped.
00:08:48.260Additionally, the Wet'suwet'en Nation also says the CGL does not have a proper archaeological impact assessment.
00:08:55.760So I'm wondering if you could shed some light on these developments. And if this is a sort of
00:09:01.180blatant disregard displayed during an interim injunction, what is it going to look like
00:09:07.160should full scale construction begin? That's a really good point as well. I mean,
00:09:12.360first off, this is an interim injunction. A full injunction hasn't been granted. And this is a
00:09:21.200company that has been illegally granted a license to the land and territory in this region and when
00:09:29.040i say legal it's very complex and a lot of people are like well didn't chief sign agreements with
00:09:36.260cgl and and yeah they did and so but here's the issue and i and i just want to like name this
00:09:43.480first is that there were representatives of the wet sueton office of the wet sueton which is
00:09:49.660funded and governed under a system that has been imposed in the region by the colonial government
00:09:55.620of Canada. And so there's an elected chief and council system that has been imposed
00:10:00.220to all first nations across what is now known as Canada. And these systems are not only sort of
00:10:08.220dictated, sort of top down by colonial systems, but they're also funded. And so there's a vested
00:10:14.460interest in these communities and these systems of governance to comply with government policies,
00:10:22.620injunctions, projects. But the reality is, is the way that the system works in Canada
00:10:28.220is that the government gets to grant licenses for leases, for exploration and for development
00:10:36.220of projects without consultation. So the first step of even just licensing for exploration is
00:10:42.420granted without consent with with those nations and then then there's a complicating factor with
00:10:47.960the with the Wet'suwet'en is that in 2015 like you said they came together to say that they would
00:10:53.740protect these lands and territories from the expansion of pipelines and development in the
00:10:57.960region and that's because there was a shift in the way that the Wet'suwet'en was governed at that
00:11:02.640time at that time in this sort of post truth and reconciliation era in the country we saw the
00:11:09.600re-emergence and resurgence of hereditary chieftain recognition across the country,
00:11:15.680particularly in places like British Columbia, but not solely in British Columbia, or what is now
00:11:20.260known as British Columbia. And so what we had is that the Wet'suwet'en has now these people that0.78
00:11:26.040are like, we want to bring back our clan systems, we want to bring back hereditary chiefs, but they
00:11:30.600have this elected chief and council system that the government of Canada works with. And they have
00:11:36.160a vested interest in working with them because they have them literally hook, line and sinker
00:11:41.040through a funding mechanism. Hereditary chief systems and the resurgence of clan houses do
00:11:46.460not have that same connection. They are not beholden to, you know, the administrative funding
00:11:50.560and dollars of the colonial government. And so when they make decisions, they're making those
00:11:55.160decisions based on the rule of the land and the rule of their people. And the government, in my
00:12:00.560opinion, probably takes a real big concern with that because they don't have those communities
00:12:05.720with their the interests aren't with the colonial system the interests are with their lands and
00:12:10.980territories their interests are with the communities and so in 2015 what we saw is not
00:12:15.920just this resurgence and re-emergence but in Wet'suwet'en they they created a board of directors
00:12:21.780that was comprised of the hereditary chiefs and clan house leaders of the Wet'suwet'en became
00:12:28.440the board of directors for the elected systems of the Wet'suwet'en and it's super complicated
00:12:34.140But we have to recognize that there's a there's a duality that's happening here. And the government, Canadian government constantly relies on that elected system to give those sanctions, including the agreement to remove the blockades so that they could come in.
00:12:49.840And that agreement that they came to in January was to really avoid violence.
00:12:57.080And I think there was a lot of people that were very concerned about violence.
00:13:00.520There were women, there were children, there were elders, there were people that did not
00:13:04.840want to experience violence, had never experienced such violence before, and they did what they
00:13:11.140But the reality is, is that they need to ensure that the governance and the recognition of
00:13:17.740hereditary chief systems is included in our processes for determining what happens to our
00:13:23.220lands and territories. And that's actually upheld by a Canadian Supreme Court case called De Gaulle
00:13:29.420MOOC, which affirmed sovereignty to lands and territories in the region in 1997. So we have
00:13:38.020a history that recognizes hereditary chief systems, recognizes governance over our lands and
00:13:43.460territories. But instead, what we're having is that the government is relying on antiquated
00:13:48.480systems that were imposed on indigenous communities during the first wave colonization
00:13:55.440to really support a system that supports the interest of the colonial government and systems
00:14:01.620of white supremacy and diminishes and devalues hereditary chief systems and traditional forms
00:14:07.820of governance. So when you see what's happening out there with these RCMP coming in and
00:14:13.180destroying, and not just the RCMP, but, you know, CGL and the RCMP coming in, destroying the
00:14:18.960blockades. At one point, the RCMP had taken over the Gadimtum checkpoint, and they were using
00:14:26.720their sort of house that they had built, their little cabin to stay in as a checkpoint. They
00:14:32.080were burning the firewood that had been chopped by Indigenous people to keep themselves warm0.94
00:14:37.300after they had confiscated that checkpoint, you know, and then when they were done with it,0.93
00:14:42.780they destroyed it. And that is really a very clear depiction of how colonization is still
00:14:50.840happening to this day. They literally force us off our lands and territories, use our resources,
00:14:57.520take them, and then destroy what's left of our people and really destroy the remnants of what
00:15:04.980we had. And they'll be like, oh, you can have it back now. And I know this also all too well,0.99
00:15:09.760because I come from the Alberta tar sands, where we have seen the destruction and the diminishing
00:15:14.500and the contamination of our territory for 60 years in the region. And these governments are
00:15:21.160like, look, we'll put it back, we'll reclaim it once we're done, and you can have it back,
00:15:24.860and it'll all be yours. But we've lost that time with it. We've lost our connections to it.
00:15:30.060They've destroyed it. They've changed those spaces that we develop such deep, intimate
00:15:34.620relationships and connections with. And I know those leaders that lived out at Una Stoughton
00:15:40.140for so long, and they were changed by the land. The land changes you when you have that relationship
00:15:46.520with it. And I know you know that living out in the in the redwoods, like the land changes you,
00:15:51.820it changes how you relate to the world, it changes how you relate to yourself. And ultimately,
00:15:57.300it changes how you your value systems become less about you as an individual, and more about you as
00:16:04.600a community in relation to the land and the ecosystems and the planet. And that's the most
00:16:11.820frustrating thing for me, is that we're not just relegating this land occupation, this settlement
00:16:20.040as a protest, but we are relegating and diminishing its importance in us addressing the largest crisis
00:16:28.780humanity has ever faced, which is the climate crisis. Right now, we need to be protecting
00:16:34.100these intact biodiverse regions. We need to be ensuring that our relationship is restored with
00:16:40.020the land in a real way so that we don't continue to build the pathways to our own demise.
00:16:46.660And instead, we're vilifying these communities. We are relegating these things to acts of protest
00:16:53.160against colonial systems rather than upholding these peoples as the leaders for what we need
00:16:59.700to do in order to restore not just our relationship with each other but restoring our relationship with
00:17:04.500the land. I really appreciate you going through the complexities of present-day colonization
00:17:12.640because I think it's so important to realize that colonization isn't something that happened
00:17:20.600in the past it wasn't 500 years ago wasn't 300 years I mean it was then but it's also now
00:17:27.100and for people to not be aware of that or to not acknowledge that and to kind of just acknowledge
00:17:34.260colonization as something happened in a textbook you know with a painted picture of
00:17:39.320colonizers coming over in a boat it's like that's it's still happening today and and then just the
00:17:46.900complexities around the confusion between the hereditary and the elected leadership amongst
00:17:53.100First Nations. And it's so important to clarify that banned councils are elected every two years,
00:17:59.100whereas hereditary chiefs are prepared for this role from a very young age and remain the title
00:18:04.540holders and authority over unceded lands. You know, while banned councils were introduced in 1876
00:18:10.940as a part of an assimilation policy, it's important to acknowledge that the Supreme Court of Canada
00:18:16.720recognized the hereditary system in 1997. You already kind of spoke to this, but if you could
00:18:23.200also maybe more in depth speak to how this confusion, or maybe how is this confusion a
00:18:31.540strategy used both by industry and colonial government to feign the appearance of consent
00:18:38.840when it comes to development and extraction? Does Canada's federal government rely upon the
00:18:44.800division between hereditary and elected leaders as a tool to aid in the ongoing project of
00:18:50.640re-territorialization? You know, I think that you hit the nail on the head when you're like,
00:18:57.220these ban council systems were a tool in the attempted assimilation of Indigenous peoples.
00:19:04.100And, you know, there's this real importance of the resurgence and the re-emergence of
00:19:09.100hereditary leadership. Um, but it's not just, just to this time in present history. Um, you know,
00:19:15.840we have seen hereditary leaderships, clan house leaders, um, come to the surface during the,
00:19:22.700during Ghanasatage and Ghanawage in 1990, which is commonly known as the Oka crisis,
00:19:27.180which is such a terrible name for it. Um, we, it was clan house leaders. It was the,
00:19:33.020the long house leaders that stepped up and said, nope, we're not going to take this. We're going
00:19:37.140to stand in the way. And there was a division in the community even back then. So this isn't a new
00:19:41.860issue in the country. And in that time, it's the same thing. The government relied and went to
00:19:48.460continually over and over and over again to that elected system. And they propped them up as the
00:19:55.180most rational because it is a system that they created. It is a system that they have a vested
00:20:00.980interest in, and not just a vested interest in, but a vested financial relationship with.
00:20:08.280And it's a really, really broken structure that really diminishes and devalues the importance
00:20:13.840of these hereditary and, you know, clan house systems that are more and more coming to the
00:20:22.760surface in this post-truth and reconciliation era. But the government doesn't want to recognize it,
00:20:28.540Again, because of the fact that we're talking about communities that don't have a history of making impact benefit agreements and signing funding contribution agreements with the government.
00:20:40.380These are leaders that are driven by and governed by their communities, that are governed by their relationships with the lands and the ecosystems.
00:20:51.220And that's a scary thing for the colonial government to really have to take on because they don't have that bargaining chip.
00:20:58.340They don't have that. We're going to stand here and we're going to offer you money for this, that and the other. These are leaders that have said unanimously, we don't care how much money you give us. We will never support these projects in our lands and territories.
00:21:13.920And when we're talking about colonial governments that are really driven on systems of wealth and capitalism and patriarchy and all of the systems, the isms that further serve to marginalize and oppress people of color and indigenous folks, you start to see why it's so important that we invite and welcome new forms of governance.
00:21:39.580and so for me one of the biggest things that I've been really thinking about and struggling when
00:21:44.620people are like well we we can't have like all these different systems and how are we going to
00:21:48.940know how to deal with this and how are we going to know how to talk to who do we talk to they
00:21:52.300act like it's this impossible never-ending thing that they'll never be able to figure out
00:21:57.540but I just I really really beg to differ on that one because I do think we need more diversity
00:22:04.180Not just in the biodiverse regions of the world. Climate crisis has said, you know, within the UNFCCC reports and the IPCC reports that we need to conserve and protect biodiversity. We talk about biodiversity as being something critical to our survival, not just human survival, but all species survival.
00:22:23.120but we only think of biodiversity in a sense of like plants flora and fauna but biodiversity also
00:22:29.980comes in the way that we act and move in the world pre-colonization of the americas i think
00:22:36.620about how many languages there were how many different clans there were how many different
00:22:43.080communities there were with their own sets of governance driven by their own lands and
00:22:48.460territories driven by their their own communities and how beautiful it would have been to be in a
00:22:55.600place with so much rich diversity not just in the land and the ecosystems but in the people
00:23:01.700we have to have biodiversity and colonization and colonial structures are trying to homogenize
00:23:08.800humanity you know we're trying to homogenize humanity under on a foundation of white supremacy0.96
00:23:14.640And this assimilation is not just to, you know, in Australia, they actually try to breed out the black folks. And in Canada, they try to assimilate us through policies. And they're trying to erase our indigenous heritage and erase the biodiversity of the peoples that we are across this great continent.0.62
00:23:35.080And so for me, I think about how important it is for us to think about and respect and realize and recognize the necessity of the different types of governance that come in this country and that there can't be one ultimate superpower.
00:23:49.740There can't be one, you know, Justin Trudeau making all of the decisions for all of the lands and resources in this country. We have to have those that are connected to place to help us determine what's going to be the best pathway forward, not just for the communities in that place, but for all communities that exist on Turtle Island, that exist on Mother Earth.
00:24:11.220wow Ariel that was such a beautifully spoken I feel very resonant with it and I so deeply agree
00:24:23.220now I want to start talking about some things that are not more disturbing than what we've
00:24:31.140been discussing but disturbing in the intelligence gathering realms so I was reading that in 2014
00:24:40.300and 2015, the RCMP gathered intelligence on spying, basically on 313 First Nations activists.
00:24:50.760In fact, a leaked government operations center document identified Unistotenkamp as a, quote,
00:24:57.140ideological and physical focal point of aboriginal resistance to resource extraction projects,
00:25:03.540end quote. Now, additionally, over the years, RCMP has described Wet'suwet'en protectors as
00:25:10.340extremist. So it's pretty clear to me that the police don't care about, quote, enforcing laws
00:25:17.260or assessing true risk to the public. But instead, they're in the business of suppressing serious
00:25:23.040movements that have the capacity to be tremendously, extremely successful in disrupting the flow
00:25:29.060of commodity. So I'd really like if you could share more about the history between RCMP and
00:25:36.680the Wet'suwet'en Nation. And then what does this signal to you about the fate of future protest
00:25:42.260movements? I think that Indigenous folks in Canada and the United States have been labeled
00:25:49.480as extremists and activists for some time. You look at AIM, you look at OCA, and now you look at
00:25:57.940Unastotin, and Wet'suwet'en. And you realize that any time Indigenous peoples rise up against
00:26:06.100colonial structures and try to reaffirm and assert their sovereignty, autonomy,
00:26:12.980and self-determination, which are all tenets of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of
00:26:18.640Indigenous Peoples, by the way, that they are labeled as renegades, as threats to the state,
00:26:27.000because frankly, we are threats to the state, but we're not threats to the state in the way that
00:26:31.540they want to present us publicly. We're threats to the state in having in their foothold of being
00:26:39.020the ultimate superpower in determining what's best for all people, including us in that patriarchal
00:26:45.840colonial sense. And we are a threat to that in that sense, but we're not a threat to the general
00:26:53.160public. And that's the misconception that needs to be broken. And neither was AIM and neither was
00:26:59.820OCA. This is not a threat to the general public. These are people that are talking about trying to
00:27:05.300stop the threat to Mother Earth, to their lands and territory, to the sanity of humanity in
00:27:11.640restoring those relationships with place. And, you know, colonization and systems of white1.00
00:27:17.900supremacy and capitalism and neoliberalism are predicated on systems that pull us away from
00:27:24.780our relationship to land. That's why decolonization in its simplest form is reconnecting
00:27:30.400to place. It's reconnecting to land. And so I think about how we've been completely criminalized
00:27:37.380for doing what is actually quite natural. And that is a symptom of the sickness that is so
00:27:44.880pervasive in systems of colonization. And again, we can go back further in the history of the
00:27:51.080colonization of the Americas to when we were labeled as renegades and rebels. You know,
00:27:56.440in Canada, we also have something called the Real Rebellion. And I don't know enough about
00:28:00.780American history, so I apologize. But in Canada, they call it the Real Rebellion. But I've been
00:28:10.700resistance. You know, we were resisting the systems of colonial pressures and colonial oppression,
00:28:15.880and they labeled us all as rebels. You know, anytime Native folks and Indigenous folks
00:28:21.260rose up and fought back against the colonial governments and white folks died, they referred
00:28:26.920to it as massacres. But when it was white folks killing Indigenous folks, it was referred to as0.90
00:28:33.680a battle. And it's much more distinguished rather than criminalized. And you can see it just in the0.93
00:28:38.600nuances of the way English language, a colonial language has made us these villains in the story
00:28:45.880when in actuality, the villains that came here and literally killed millions of peoples across
00:28:53.120the America through germ warfare, through direct violence and, and, and, you know, the destruction
00:28:59.860of our food sources, the culling of the Buffalo, you know, we're talking about, you know, burning
00:29:05.420down food crops and all the crazy massive the massacres that occurred on this continent at the
00:29:14.100hands of colonial governments that have painted a history the history continues to paint us to this
00:29:20.980day as the villains we are still painted as the villains in this country and that's what's
00:29:27.780happening right now. We are not a threat to the Canadian public, but what we are a threat to
00:29:35.480is really opening up and putting a magnifying glass on the true history of these colonial
00:29:43.820governments and how it has detached not just Indigenous folks, but all people from what needs
00:29:51.440to be governing us, which is our relationships to land, our relationships to each other,
00:29:55.820our interspecies relationships, and how we need to be moving forward in this world.
00:30:01.060And it would put a huge wedge and put a big magnifying on the glass that our systems are
00:30:06.240fundamentally broken. That's what we're threatening. We're not threatening people.
00:30:10.760We're threatening systems that are actually a part of our demise on this planet here,
00:30:15.360our time here on planet Earth. A demise to everyone, including
00:30:19.560the people who are on top of the system. Exactly.
00:30:23.900It's the demise of everything. And I think the bravery to stand up and put one's life on the line for the land, but really for the survival of all species, including humans, it's really – I have so much deep respect.
00:30:45.640And I just think back to what you were saying about, well, when the colonizers won, it's a victory. It's a battle. It's, you know, the narrative of what people are still very much taught. This isn't in the past that at some point in the past hundred years, people were taught the wrong history. No, this is still very alive and well.
00:31:06.220this false narrative that is written by the colonizers. And even, you know, I was traveling
00:31:12.420with Jade Begay this summer through Alaska and British Columbia talking to indigenous elders
00:31:20.180and fisher folk. And we were going to these, you know, a few, you know, small museums and just even
00:31:28.160reading the, I don't know what they're called, but those stands that kind of, you know, you walk
00:31:33.000around and you see a totem pole and then you see this written placard and even the placards in0.94
00:31:38.820british columbia in alaska are such bullshit i mean the history that's still being taught to0.98
00:31:45.700tourists so these tourists are coming up and reading this just complete lies just complete0.99
00:31:51.680and utter lies and i um i just think the threat that the government is trying to spin on indigenous
00:32:02.580folks or other activists that are trying to protect all life, you know, of course, it's
00:32:07.660just a tactic that we need to see through.
00:32:10.260And we also have to know that this surveilling of land and water protectors is, of course,
00:32:16.400it's just as rampant in the so-called United States.
00:32:19.380For example, I was reading that the police in Minnesota have spent a year and a half
00:32:23.280preparing for a standoff over in Bridge Line 3.
00:32:26.640They're using security firms and private intelligence.
00:32:29.920And the police have utilized informants, online monitoring, aerial surveillance, and eavesdropping to identify possible anti-pipeline camps and protectors.
00:32:40.100So I just want to speak even more about the strengthening of the relationship between the oil industry and local law enforcement.
00:32:49.880And how can we resist the coalescing of this national security apparatus and private interest?
00:32:56.300You know, under this this illusion of free market capitalism that we a lot of people were under the assumption that state and corporations were separate entities for a long time.
00:33:10.160And I think that the veil is really being lifted in this era of extreme crisis on on planet Earth.
00:33:20.540We're in this crisis of either continuing a pathway to the cliff's edge or literally putting up a blockade to stop the masses from going over the edge.1.00
00:33:37.980It's those that have literally taken the blinders off and are seeing the world for what it is that are calling it out.
00:33:46.720And I'm not sure why we want to continue to perpetuate these systems of state and corporate interests. But I used to be a researcher for an organization called the Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations, now known as Federation of Sovereign Indian Nations in Saskatchewan.
00:34:05.300And I spent six and a half years as an archival researcher and an oral history researcher. So I supplemented oral history with archival research. And I spent a lot of time reading, you know, correspondence for the settlement and the development of the Dominion of Canada.
00:34:25.420And I can tell you that corporate interests and colonial government interests have always been together.
00:34:34.520During the settlement of Canada, they wanted to create what is the Canadian Northern Railway and the railway system across the country.
00:34:44.820And that company wrote and petitioned the Crown and the Indian agents to ensure that those pathways were left open and that Indigenous folks or Indians didn't receive land within those areas.
00:35:01.200And they actually requested a certain amount of distance be created from those development areas to ensure that they didn't deter other white settlers from settling in those regions.0.84
00:35:12.380And those requests were granted. And then you look a little bit further in history and you look at when the agricultural belt of Saskatchewan and Manitoba and Alberta was being created. And you also see the same thing, you know, farmers not wanting Native people near where they were hoping to build crops and also pushing Native folks from selling their crops from their lands to the general market.0.80
00:35:37.140And again, these were small businesses, but you saw that the colonial governments always upheld those that were white, those that wanted to oppress and diminish the value of indigenous goods, services, communities, culture, languages, have always been pushed to the side and paved the way for corporate interests.
00:36:02.660You know, many of these small farms are now major agribusinesses that take up the agricultural belt in the prairie provinces of Canada.
00:36:11.460And you continue to see these corporate interests.
00:36:15.320I mean, look at the very foundation of Canada, which was built on the fur trade.
00:36:19.920You know, Canada was declared, large parts of what is now known as Canada, was declared the property of the King of France with zero consultation.
00:36:29.960And he sold it to the Dominion of Canada without any consultation with the indigenous peoples here.
00:36:38.440And it was a corporate transaction to a corporation.
00:36:43.400So the foundations of this country are really embedded in corporate interests.
00:36:47.660And now in modern day, what we're seeing is that we thought under, you know, this idea of free market capitalism, the ability for the individual to grow.
00:36:57.040But it was only under the individuals of certain individuals, those with power, those with direct links and ties to those making decisions about the lands and governance under the colonial systems and laws, whether that's presidents in the United States or governors or whether it's provincial leaders or prime ministers in Canada.
00:37:17.260We have always had corporations looking to those in power to grant them the rights to do things and push the most oppressed out of their way. We are still seeing that right now with the coastal gas link, with the Alberta tar sands, with the Bakken oil fields, with the multitude of pipelines that are coming out of Alberta tar sands, with mega hydro projects in eastern Canada,
00:37:45.520you know muskrat fall sightsee dam mega hydron british are in manitoba in the list goes on and
00:37:52.240on you know the bayou the bayou pipelines and offshore drilling arctic drilling so on and so
00:37:58.080forth these corporations are constantly looking to the government and their agents which in this case
00:38:05.200the rcmp to ensure the safe removal of those that stand in the way of their businesses and that is
00:38:14.980the foundations of this country and it's still alive and true. And we're just seeing it all
00:38:19.760coming out in their true colors are starting to, to play out in the public discourse because of
00:38:24.920things like social media and independent media, um, like this podcast and like so many other
00:38:30.160things, you know, democracy now has been a great purveyor of, of sharing the stories that are
00:38:35.280untold. I really feel your passion and your, um, maybe this is forward of me to say, but your
00:38:43.940sacred rage in this discussion and I feel like more of us need to feel this fire under us
00:38:51.120and not get so comfortable in our day-to-day lives because I really feel that mainstream media
00:38:58.720and so much that we're being force-fed by the system is to keep us complacent and so when we
00:39:05.520hear voices like yours, they shock us out of this falsehood that many of us are kind of clouded
00:39:15.620in this conditioning can blind us from really feeling that energetic burst to do something
00:39:24.280about it. And I want to talk a little bit about infrastructure now, because I know at the heart
00:39:32.100of so many global struggles for justice lies infrastructure. And we've talked to people all
00:39:37.000over the world. I was just thinking about our last interview around the Amazon and logging,
00:39:43.120illegal logging, mining there. And this infrastructure, which of course, extractive
00:39:48.360industry is really solely dependent upon. So I'd love if you could speak to our dependence on
00:39:55.160infrastructure and how it's really directly enabling the oppression of others and ultimately
00:40:00.680ourselves. When the state is prioritizing the protection and expansion of infrastructure over
00:40:06.500people, I'm wondering how can we remove ourselves from an infrastructure-dependent economy?
00:40:14.580You know, I've been reading this really, really great book called Joyful Militancy by Nick Montgomery
00:40:23.220and Carla, I think it's Carla Bergman, but I may have that wrong. I apologize. It's called Joyful
00:40:29.540militancy it's a really interesting book that really sort of talks about that like this that's
00:40:34.760a really really deep problem that we have as those that have this deep rage to want to rise up against
00:40:43.760the system is that we are still embedded in it you know we're still ultimately reliant on it
00:40:49.600and how do we create something different and I've been really struggling with that for a really long
00:40:56.660time, you know, particularly when I was doing a lot of tar sands campaigning, you know, I was a
00:41:01.040tar sands campaigner for, for 10 years working with my first nation. And that was always the
00:41:06.580problem is how do we, how do we stop a project? You know, the largest industrial project on planet
00:41:14.620earth that requires all the infrastructure, like transmission lines, water system, like water
00:41:21.280rights like they you know albert tarzan's on some of the most water rights they they they're building
00:41:25.880the communications towers they're building the roadways they're building the bridges they're
00:41:31.700building the the transmission lines they're doing all of this stuff that then the public then relies
00:41:36.480on and then to you know make things worse a lot of these corporations are also um bankrolling our
00:41:44.140social systems so they pay for the you know they donate heavily to educational institutions to
00:41:52.280sports and recreation institutions you know if you come to Fort McMurray and I'm sure it's the
00:41:57.680same if you go down to the Bakken I'm sure it's the same if you go down to the Gulf of Mexico
00:42:02.260that these corporations have sponsored the hospitals they sponsor you know youth programs
00:42:08.620They sponsor cultural revitalization programs in northern Canada.
00:42:16.120And we become completely entangled and reliant on these systems.
00:42:21.720And so one of the biggest challenges I know that we faced in Alberta was how do we talk about ending the expansion and development of an industry that we rely on, not just for the infrastructure, but for jobs, for employment,
00:42:36.220for, for putting roofs over our heads and food on the table and clothes on our children's backs
00:42:41.520is we have to envision something different and it's not easy, but it's possible. And we have
00:42:50.180to build that. And I think for me, what I'm learning through this book, Joyful Militancy
00:42:54.020is that it comes not from like actively necessarily, I'm not saying that you have to stop
00:43:00.340it, but it's the act alone of trying to smash colonization and end, you know, the pipeline and
00:43:06.780end these projects is alone in itself is not going to save us. What's going to save us is building
00:43:14.780community. It means sitting down with people and eating food with them and connecting with them
00:43:21.400and supporting them in ways that might seem really mundane, you know, helping someone care for their
00:43:27.640child, helping someone to, to learn how to knit or learn a skill or like learn simple things and
00:43:35.980building relationships that are not reliant on the empire, not reliant on these systems. And I,
00:43:43.640that's, you know, let's go back full circle. Let's go back to Una Stoughton. That's what they were
00:43:48.880doing. They were building a community that was not reliant on the infrastructure, that was not
00:43:56.340reliant on the contribution funding agreements from the federal government. It was not relying
00:44:01.480on the transmission lines of oil and gas companies. It was not reliant on those jobs.
00:44:07.780It was not reliant on anything but community. When they built their pit house, they built it
00:44:12.980with community. They built it with the trees on the land. They built it together. And then they
00:44:19.200sat and they ate so many meals together. They sat around the fires together and they fostered a
00:44:25.100community that relied on each other, rather than a structure that is so pervasive in pulling us
00:44:31.820apart and detaching that connection of community. And so, you know, again, I go back to this book
00:44:38.380is like, that's what we need to do. We need to be finding more spaces and carve out more places
00:44:44.560where we're fostering communities that are not reliant on empire, that are reliant on our
00:44:50.200community relations. I'm thinking about how the system sets us up to be disposable to each other.
00:45:00.420And what you're talking is reminding me that it's really the opposite of that. When we're building
00:45:05.720community, we do rely on one another for taking care of each other, for taking care of our families.
00:45:12.740But when we're in this capitalist colonial system, we can just, you know, extract resources, make money to buy our way out of having community, of being actually reliable to one another, to being accountable to one another.
00:45:28.920And to create community that is opposing this type of lies of rugged individualism, that in itself is subversive in such a beautiful way. And I think really so much at the core of how we can move forward.
00:45:47.680And like you were saying, you know, imagining a way out and removing ourselves from this, whether it's the infrastructure dependent economy, this capitalist resource extractive dependent economy.
00:45:59.740And of course, we know that when we talk about resource extraction, it's not just oil or some type of fossil fuel on the ground. Resources are also humans. It's also our relationships with one another is how this system even looks at those as resources to be squandered.
00:46:18.240so yeah I really I think that's really I think that's really important too is that again when
00:46:27.480I talked about pre-colonization in the Americas like we had this biodiversity of communities that
00:46:35.400were all very unique in their languages their cultures their relationship with the lands the
00:46:40.540foods that they ate but there was huge um routes of of trade there were huge um you know trade lines
00:46:49.440and you know systems that were economies economy-based systems where there were routes of
00:46:54.800trade but communities relied on each other you know they relied on coming together at certain
00:46:59.460times of the year and trading their goods and and sharing their stories and sharing their teachings
00:47:05.680and sharing the things they'd learned on the land and those were essential and it required
00:47:11.760face-to-face community time sitting together eating together being together and it's that
00:47:18.820those same systems that we're talking about that are being vilified where canada's biggest
00:47:24.540threat in the country is the indigenous resistance is is one of the largest threats to the canadian
00:47:30.420government. And, and like, that's the reality is, is that it questions, and it challenges those
00:47:36.920systems as not being in the best interests of people. And so we're talking about trying to
00:47:44.220create structures that are not predicated on individualism that are not predicated on the
00:47:49.080accumulation of, of wealth and success and notoriety and the American dream. But we're
00:47:55.420talking about systems that require you to admit that you are vulnerable, to admit that you are
00:48:01.880a small, humble creature on this planet that requires other people to survive. And instead,
00:48:09.740the American dream, North American dream, is really on like, how successful can you be as
00:48:16.900an individual? What have you done with your life? Instead of what are you doing with community?
00:48:22.560how are you working together how are you supporting your neighbor because back in the
00:48:27.920time in the day like you were nothing unless you had community you were nothing unless you had
00:48:33.340those people that supported you and you supported them back in a reciprocal relationship and we have
00:48:40.320lost this this ideology of um reciprocation not just with each other but within the natural world
00:48:47.560And, you know, that was one of the things in the write-up of the RCMP is that the ideological foundations of the Una Stoughton camp are, you know, are a threat to the Canadian public. And it's a threat not to the Canadian public, but it's a threat to the systems that have been driven down our throats for the last 500 years here.
00:49:06.760I was reading that in January, the police blocked access to one of the roads outside of Houston, B.C., and officers proceeded to tell journalists that they were not allowed to enter the site of the raids due to, quote, safety concerns.
00:49:21.760concerns. However, the broadcasting network Aboriginal People's Television Network noticed
00:49:28.200that company workers had no problem entering and did not face threats of obstruction. No surprise.
00:49:34.960But I really would like for you to speak and share about the violation of press freedoms that took
00:49:41.260place and the dangers that this precedent sets. You know, I think, again, it's part of that
00:49:49.460colonial narrative that they want to tell like they get to be these are a threat to the Canadian
00:49:56.480public they get to control the narrative through the you know their media machines through their
00:50:03.000storytelling and it it's like that you know let's look let's talk about the way history is written
00:50:09.320history is written through the lens of a colonial the colonial white man and when journalists are
00:50:15.100going in and they wanted to see the story from from all perspectives and from all sides of the
00:50:20.380narrative that is the threat to the colonial structure as well and so you know they have a
00:50:24.900vested interest again just like they do and trying to vilify indigenous folks is that a press is
00:50:30.300going to come in and they're going to tell the wrong story and they lose control and a lot of
00:50:34.620this is all about like power and control and there's an important role in in the press and
00:50:41.120the media having unfettered access to tell stories from an unbiased perspective so that
00:51:02.680Again, they lack the infrastructure that we're so reliant on.
00:51:07.100And so when you have independent and regular media, they need to go in because if we don't have those people that are coming in with an unbiased perspective telling that story, then the story that's going to get told is going to be really polarized.
00:51:22.780It's going to come from one person saying one thing, another person saying one thing, and then it's like, well, who's telling the truth?
00:51:31.480And when you look at how the colonial government has already laid the foundations to vilify Unistotin, to vilify Wet'suwet'en, their story comes out as, well, they have a history of being this and that and the other.0.69
00:51:44.960Whereas we have this dominant narrative that the RCMP are heroes, they're here to protect us, they're here to ensure the safety of all people, when the reality is that in the case of the Gedimton blockade, the Unastoten camps, that they came in there with violent force.
00:52:02.200They push their way into territories where they were told they were not welcome, where they were told they did not have jurisdiction, and they forced their way in.
00:52:10.760The reality is that they're enforcing jurisdiction on our lands and territories to uphold the rights of corporations over the rights of indigenous communities.0.98
00:52:22.800And I just don't understand how they continue to be the hero while indigenous communities continue to be the villain.
00:52:30.040And it's so important that independent media, that media gets in to start telling the real story so that we can start to unravel the real history of what colonization has done to Indigenous peoples and what colonization has done to our understanding of who are the villains and who are the heroes in our stories.0.99
00:52:47.740I guess my last question is around, you know, the kind of question of what can we do type of question. But I also want to really speak to the truth around that because I know at one time, even around a month ago, people were like, oh, we're going to go to Udenstoten camp, whether it was non-native people, people, you know, ally activists, people that were hearing it up in the news.
00:53:13.340And I know a lot of times it's not the best thing to just get in a car and drive up to the camp or, you know, of course, we need to really be intentional and listen around how outsiders can support movements and specifically the Unastoten camp right now.
00:53:31.260So maybe just kind of give us a sense of where they're at at this moment and what is the best way to support for those of us who are not on the front lines, but rather on the sidelines looking in, wanting to support, but really being able to take a step back and listen to what is actually helpful and not things that are just going to get in the way and create more complexity and more struggle for those that are on the front lines.
00:53:59.960yeah I think it's really important that we listen to the communities themselves and take as much
00:54:05.220direction as possible from them you know they have a really great website it's unastoten.camp
00:54:10.880I encourage people to go check it out they update it quite regularly there is a supporter toolkit
00:54:17.140that they've created for people but what's happening is that this is long from over the
00:54:23.720The Coastal Gas Link or CGL in TransCanada, this project is still on the books and the Wet'suwet'en office and the people of the Wet'suwet'en are going to challenge this project.
00:54:37.720That is, they've made that very clear over and over again, and they're going to do whatever they can in their power to ensure that it is not completed.
00:54:46.040And they want to do it in a respectful way.
00:54:48.180They want to avoid violence, obviously.
00:54:50.020um and that's why they signed the agreement to pull down the the blockades but at the same time
00:54:56.320they need respect of their lands and territory i mean we're already seeing the destruction of
00:55:00.980of an essential trap line in the region we've seen the destruction of the gidamtim you know
00:55:06.860settlement there are threats to the unistotin settlement um you know people on the ground is0.96
00:55:12.120always appreciated but they want people that understand and know the territory they don't want
00:55:17.380strangers that have not been a part of the struggle for a long time so please be cognizant of that
00:55:22.820like if you are planning on going there you you have to have and it's for security purposes is
00:55:28.160you have to have some sort of connection to the community but you know they keeping that the land
00:55:34.760and the settlement up and going is an important part of this is that assertion of the utilization
00:55:40.480of this land in a traditional sense things that folks can do is check out the website they have
00:55:46.260this supporter toolkit. They're still calling on people to continue to host actions, whether those
00:55:51.020are protests or screenings of films or panels and discussions on this, you know, sending letters
00:55:58.260to emails directly to the government or calling, you know, Canadian and British Columbia
00:56:05.360representatives to show your support and respect of the Wet'suwet'en peoples. And of course, you
00:56:12.240know, this is not easy. The fight is far from over. And they really want to take this to the
00:56:18.260court systems. They want to revitalize the de Gaulle-Much court case and really bring it to
00:56:23.860the forefront around recognition of hereditary chief systems. That stuff's not free. You know,
00:56:28.220we're all bound to those systems of economies and capitalism. And, you know, sometimes you have to
00:56:34.140utilize those systems to fight them. And I really, really think that folks need to continue to donate
00:56:38.900to the legal defense fund because that's going to be a long drawn out battle uh donate to the to
00:56:44.420the access point to ensure that we can continue to occupy those lands and territories sign a
00:56:49.680pledge it's simple as that like if you and also i want to recognize that not everyone can go out
00:56:54.560there not everyone can donate not everyone can host an event um because of all sorts of limitations
00:57:00.640and i don't want people to feel as though they're not contributing to this cause you know you can
00:57:05.040just sign a pledge. You can educate your friends, your neighbors by sharing information that is all
00:57:11.220available on the Unistotin camp and really just trying to learn your best to understand the
00:57:18.620complexity of all of this and really doing your homework. I really encourage those that want to
00:57:24.000be a part of this to not just jump on the bandwagon and say Wet'suwet'en strong, support Unistotin,
00:57:30.300but take the time to understand the deep history of why this is what it is. Understanding the court
00:57:38.580cases and the nuances of hereditary chief systems versus elected chief systems, understanding the
00:57:44.680jurisdictional issues in the region. There's a lot of complexity. And if you're going to get involved
00:57:50.160and you want to start really getting involved, start understanding the real history of these
00:57:54.700people, of these countries, and take it one step further. Learn the history of your own region and
00:57:59.320your own territory, and the histories of those people there. Because this isn't just a single
00:58:04.040story. This is just a magnifying glass on a story that exists everywhere across Turtle Island and
00:58:10.700across the Americas. And you can learn more about our work, which supports these people,
00:58:15.780like folks like Wet'suwet'en, Tiny House Warriors, you know, all the Indigenous communities that are
00:58:21.260really stepping up to be leaders in protecting lands and territory for the climate and for
00:58:25.920everyone. And of course, just check us out, indigenousclimateaction.com or across the
00:58:31.260country. And please do, if you're going to get involved in this, check out unistoten.camp. So
00:58:36.300that's U-N-I-S-T-O-N-T-E-N.camp. And take a moment to really learn about what's going on there.
00:58:45.000thanks for listening to another episode of for the wild podcast i'm audio producer andrew stores
00:58:59.980the music you heard today was from wildlife freeway i'd like to thank our host and founder
00:59:05.180ayana young as well as the rest of our podcast team aiden mccray francesca glassbell hannah
00:59:11.340Wilton, Aaron Wise, Erica Ekrem, Melanie Younger, and Carter Lou McElroy.