For The Wild - February 21, 2019


Intersectional Justice in Film and Media at SUNDANCE FILM FESTIVAL⌠ON LOCATION⌡ ⧸108

Topics
Scott Momaday Mamaday Mam intersectional VR/AR curatorial practice
ERIEL TCHEKWIE DERANGER on Solidarity with Unist'ot'en ⧸107 ADA RECINOS on Corporate Destabilization and Local Resiliency in El Salvador ⧸109

Episode Stats


Length

59 minutes

Words per minute

154.43

Word count

9,133

Sentence count

423

Harmful content

Misogyny

5

sentences flagged

Toxicity

2

sentences flagged

Hate speech

30

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
00:00:00.000 This podcast is brought to you through support from our partner, the Kalliopea Foundation.
00:00:05.120 The Kalliopea Foundation envisions a future grounded in compassion, respect, dignity,
00:00:11.100 reverence for nature, and care for each other in the earth.
00:00:13.960 To learn more, visit Kalliopea.org.
00:00:16.960 Welcome to For the Wild Podcast.
00:00:19.060 I'm Ayanna Young.
00:00:20.860 Today we are sharing with you a special edition episode from our time at Sundance Film Festival.
00:00:30.000 media can either obstruct or grow our imaginations at best it reminds us of what's important and
00:00:45.360 possible it indulges our emotions and creativity at worst it dictates the whims of corporations
00:00:52.300 and a select few it creates fear mistruths and feeds into our insecurities and weaknesses as
00:00:58.880 consumers. Independent media and cultural work are vital resources as we navigate this world and
00:01:05.620 create the next. We were more than curious to see how Sundance Film Festival is navigating these
00:01:11.940 realms. I wanted for the Wild to attend Sundance this year to ensure that a group whose interests
00:01:18.340 are not embedded in mass media would ask the questions that would otherwise be left untouched
00:01:23.660 by corporate mass media. While Sundance's origins are independent, we still think it's important
00:01:29.700 that organizations like For the Wild show up to see whose interests are really being served.
00:01:35.660 We wanted to know if it's possible for films to challenge corporate ideology
00:01:39.580 in high-profile spaces that are becoming more and more corporatized.
00:01:44.520 What is being covered and what is being left out? Who gets to tell these stories and where are the
00:01:50.380 conflicts of interest? How are artists challenging us? And how do we as an audience need to challenge
00:01:56.100 artists and filmmakers? We hope to continue supporting independent media and shining our
00:02:01.820 light on the many powerful narratives we are lucky enough to hear. This year at Sundance, I watched so
00:02:07.280 many incredible films that are bearing witness to this critical time, are telling profound stories
00:02:12.540 of extinction, and highlighting the individuals like Leah Tismill featured in The Advocate or
00:02:17.880 the National Immigrant Youth Alliance, featured in The Infiltrators,
00:02:22.320 as they pursued justice and the awareness that there is no other option.
00:02:27.280 We are thankful to so many of these filmmakers who are depicting these stories
00:02:31.360 and ensuring that these struggles are not in vain.
00:02:37.080 Fabulous.
00:02:38.400 Well, welcome to this interview with For the Wild podcast.
00:02:42.820 We're at Sundance Friday.
00:02:45.440 It's a clear, crisp day outside.
00:02:48.280 Yeah, mic check, one, two, one, two.
00:02:50.460 I'm kind of talking a little bit quietly just to respect the space around us.
00:02:54.080 I don't want to be, like, shouting over everybody.
00:02:57.900 Director Heppi Mehta from the film Moretta, How Mom Decolonized the Screen.
00:03:03.420 My full name, my full full name is Heppi Tiki Tiri Mehta,
00:03:06.960 but I won't challenge you with that one.
00:03:12.160 In the 1970s, Moretta Mehta broke through barriers of race, class, and gender
00:03:17.220 to become the first Maori woman to write and direct a feature film.
00:03:21.240 Tackling controversial issues of Indigenous social justice in both documentaries and fiction,
00:03:26.380 the pioneering activist filmmaker faced harassment and violence.
00:03:30.600 Persevering, she emerged as one of New Zealand's best-known filmmakers
00:03:33.640 and a powerful voice for Indigenous peoples around the world.
00:03:37.680 Moretta was also a long-time advisor to Sundance Institute,
00:03:41.360 and the Indigenous Artist Fellowship bears her name.
00:03:45.240 In Moretta, How Mom Decolonized the Screen,
00:03:48.000 Moretta's youngest son, Heppi,
00:03:50.060 crafts a deeply intimate portrait of his late mother.
00:03:53.180 One thing you were mentioning was the violence
00:03:55.240 that you and your family had endured.
00:03:59.280 And I'm wondering, how did that shape this film,
00:04:03.180 the storytelling, and how did it shape your mother's work as well?
00:04:08.320 Well, it's interesting because I was very fortunate.
00:04:11.440 By the time I was born, my mother was quite successful.
00:04:14.600 She was coming to Sundance, and I got to go with her as a child.
00:04:18.360 And so I come from a background of immense privilege.
00:04:22.180 So for me, it was quite an awakening.
00:04:26.620 You know, I was very naive about the way things were.
00:04:28.980 I mean, I knew it was tough, but I didn't know it was as hard as it was.
00:04:32.640 And to hear these things from my mother, she sheltered me.
00:04:35.460 You know, she made sure that my experience would not be what she had to endure.
00:04:41.440 For a lot of filmmakers, they talk about their challenge being maybe a technical thing or, you know, just learning the craft of it.
00:04:47.440 For me, it was actually building up the courage as my mother's youngest son to go to my older brothers and my sister
00:04:54.020 and to talk about these memories that they had suppressed, memories of racism, memories of police brutality.
00:05:01.100 I remember after one of my interviews with one of my brothers, he told me, you know, he had never spoken to any of that, to anybody before.
00:05:08.640 so that was really heavy and I look up to them as authority figures and I love them and I was
00:05:15.720 really pushing them to go to this place to talk about these things and it took me five years to
00:05:21.180 make this talk and I gotta say most of that time was me just building courage to have that
00:05:25.140 conversation with them and the great thing about it is it actually brought us a lot closer to to
00:05:30.760 have that talk you know to address these things the elephant in the room because you know what
00:05:35.980 pained me the most about my mother's story is that she was doing her work to build a better
00:05:42.500 future for her children and through her work particularly in those early years you know she
00:05:49.200 was branded a radical and not only did those who oppose her worldview come after her but they
00:05:55.660 targeted her children as well so it's almost like this contradiction you know you're doing these
00:06:02.240 things to make a better future for your kids at the same time your children are suffering and what
00:06:08.360 i felt was really humanizing about my mother is she had a lot of regret because of that journey
00:06:16.940 and because of the journey her children went on with her and so for us you know the the next
00:06:23.260 generation the the really beautiful part of making this film was the forgiveness and and of them
00:06:30.660 understanding and then believing in what she was doing despite the trauma that they were subjected
00:06:37.140 to you know saying that they would do it all over again with her was one of the most rewarding
00:06:42.780 experiences so regardless of how successful the film may or may not be that reward for
00:06:49.100 me personally was greater than any kind of critical or financial success
00:07:00.660 The vaquita, the world's smallest porpoise, is on the brink of extinction.
00:07:18.080 Its habitat ravaged by illegal fishing practices that target the totowaba fish for its highly prized swim bladder,
00:07:25.140 known as the cocaine of the sea. 0.98
00:07:27.760 The key to our collateral damage caught up in the Totoaba Nets. 1.00
00:07:31.840 Their numbers have declined to just a few individuals left in the wild. 0.98
00:07:35.760 Environmental activists, Mexican Navy, and undercover investigators
00:07:39.460 are fighting back against this illegal multi-million dollar business.
00:07:43.960 Director Richard Lodcani and film subjects Andrea Crosta and Carlos Loret de Mola
00:07:49.500 with their film Sea of Shadows. 0.89
00:07:51.800 well the one of the big problems is that it is a system that is like system failure of the mexican
00:07:59.040 government they have just not taken this threat seriously enough for them it's just like an
00:08:04.460 environmental problem they look the other way we have more serious problems but this is serious
00:08:09.900 because this is just gonna die like there's an ocean that is dying you can't bring it back you
00:08:15.960 know yes you can go after like the cocaine trade and other things and and this will continue you
00:08:21.260 You know, there is many elements to that.
00:08:23.460 But this is so urgent because it started kind of three years ago.
00:08:27.460 And just in three years, this ocean system has collapsed.
00:08:30.900 Like, it's really death everywhere.
00:08:32.440 The ocean, like, when you go to the beaches, you see carcasses of dolphins, of turtles, of sharks, of everything.
00:08:38.280 And nobody cares, you know.
00:08:39.920 And we think that people should care.
00:08:42.480 and you mentioned it andrea before that the cartels they're they're fueled by like social
00:08:51.100 problems you know they go to people and say hey work for us make you make the big bucks but what
00:08:56.120 they're actually doing is they're extorting people because they they provide nets for them but they
00:09:00.840 have to pay back to three thousand dollars that these nets cost in case they lose them exactly
00:09:05.880 So what happens is these fishermen, they are lured by money, but then they become slaves to the cartel.
00:09:13.860 And it's very hard to escape that.
00:09:15.960 So the only people that can break this system is the government.
00:09:20.280 But they have to take it seriously.
00:09:21.820 And that's why our work here is so important of every one of us, is to show them and to show the world,
00:09:28.400 this is what's happening in your front yard, in your backyard, and you're looking the other way.
00:09:32.580 but we will tell the whole world what's going on here and you better do something about it because
00:09:38.380 you know you'll be shamed into doing that if you don't like you have to be responsible for
00:09:44.720 not doing anything about or held responsible and we want to bring that to the attention so that
00:09:50.540 the system can be broken and we can show the world that change is possible
00:09:54.900 Yes. And so our work and in the documentary for the first time ever, you see it very well.
00:10:03.900 Our work was about, OK, let's map and investigate and collect intelligence along the entire supply chain.
00:10:09.900 And let's find the guys who are really at the center of everything.
00:10:13.900 OK. And in our opinion, our is the Chinese community in Mexico.
00:10:19.900 Okay, and it was the first time that someone said, hey, it's more complicated than just fishermen. 0.61
00:10:26.540 It's even more complicated than narco traffickers because the real drivers are the Chinese. 0.56
00:10:32.200 They place the orders. 0.99
00:10:33.220 They buy the Toaba and then they smuggle back to China.
00:10:37.700 And by doing that, they're actually committing other crimes because they're money laundering.
00:10:41.820 They're even into human smuggling.
00:10:43.240 So they're using this money for other crimes.
00:10:45.820 So it is very important that the Mexican government finally takes a look at the entire supply chain and work in a strategic way, not just in a reactive way, putting off fires.
00:10:57.540 They have to think about what they are doing.
00:10:59.260 There is a lot of homework to be done from their side because we are just an NGO and Carlos is a journalist.
00:11:05.580 We cannot arrest people.
00:11:07.380 We cannot take down these people.
00:11:08.840 They have to do it. 0.96
00:11:10.580 Best case scenario, they would do it together with China. 0.87
00:11:13.820 A few weeks ago in China, they had the largest seizure ever of Totoaba. 0.92
00:11:19.360 Millions of dollars, 16 people arrested. 0.63
00:11:21.600 So maybe they're waking up.
00:11:23.260 Maybe they feel the pressure as well.
00:11:25.320 But it's crucial when you have such complex problems in front of you, environmental.
00:11:30.060 What I repeat all the time, every time what I ask is,
00:11:33.680 when you're talking about this kind of environmental crimes, just forget the first word.
00:11:39.320 Just forget environmental.
00:11:41.400 It's crime with capital C.
00:11:43.260 And that's the way you should approach this thing, not just the environment.
00:11:47.000 Otherwise, they will always win.
00:11:48.840 They will always be ahead of you because they are smarter.
00:11:51.100 They have been doing this forever.
00:11:53.200 Let me go into detail for you.
00:11:55.880 There is this fish called totoava.
00:11:58.960 The Chinese believe that the swim bladder is of curative powers.
00:12:04.580 The totoava is about the same size as the vaquita. 0.99
00:12:06.600 So the vaquita gets trapped in the same gildedness that they use to the totoava.
00:12:10.460 So, officially, there is a ban, so you cannot fish totoaba on open seas.
00:12:16.700 But illegal fishermen do fish for totoaba.
00:12:20.980 They get paid approximately $3,000, $4,000 for a nice-sized swim bladder of the totoaba.
00:12:29.240 And that same swim bladder goes all the way to New York or Hong Kong or Shanghai
00:12:34.520 and costs $80,000, $100,000.
00:12:38.500 That's how they smuggle it.
00:12:40.460 In order to get it all the way there, the Chinese mafia and the Mexican cartels connect themselves. 0.94
00:12:47.700 The Mexican cartels operate the Mexican side, and then the last part of the chain is taken care of by the Chinese mafia. 0.68
00:12:57.480 All this happens in the very front of the eyes of the Mexican government, perhaps the U.S. government, and perhaps the Chinese government.
00:13:06.860 In terms of the Mexican government, which is, as a journalist, as far as my investigation goes, there are people from the armed forces that see on the beach that totoabas are being fished and they do nothing.
00:13:24.340 also the environmental authorities so there is a lack a huge lack of rule of law that has put
00:13:33.460 the vaquita on this endangering situation and in a moment where climate change are being
00:13:43.500 incredibly disputed by some very powerful governments i think it's especially important
00:13:50.760 to take a look at these films
00:13:52.600 that not only cry out for the vaquita,
00:13:56.740 but invite you to think of how, as humans,
00:14:02.020 we need to reshuffle the deck
00:14:04.720 in a relationship with nature.
00:14:08.380 And I think that's what's important of Sea of Shadows.
00:14:20.760 and director Philip Meleish with their film Advocate. In the film Leah Tismil
00:14:26.820 defends Palestinians from feminist to fundamentalist, from nonviolent
00:14:31.000 demonstrators to armed militants. As a Jewish Israeli lawyer who has
00:14:35.040 represented political prisoners for nearly 50 years, Tismil in her tireless
00:14:39.660 quest for justice pushes the proxies of human rights defender to its limits.
00:14:45.240 I don't think it needs a special courage. It needs the same courage that
00:14:50.380 is necessary in order to live in Israel in the Middle East after 50 years of occupation
00:14:56.800 with so many Palestinians under occupation who are oppressed under the occupation and it seems
00:15:02.700 for me as an Israeli but as a human being first of all that this is the only rational and reasonable
00:15:09.780 thing to do to stand by the Palestinians with their struggle and to try to achieve together
00:15:16.840 with them, equality and freedom. This is the basic thing, I think. So yes, it's not very
00:15:23.380 common and it's quite extraordinary sometimes to think that an Israeli will defend the Palestinians. 0.98
00:15:29.940 But I think this is the only way to survive where we are. 0.95
00:15:33.900 So you're saying this is the only way to survive. Again, that's not a narrative that we hear.
00:15:38.560 What does that mean?
00:15:40.020 It means that if we, Israeli Jews, intend to live in that part of the world, we have
00:15:46.820 to live in total equality. We cannot deny the Palestinians from their rights. We cannot
00:15:53.440 prevent them from the right of citizenship in their own state or statehood. And we should
00:16:00.880 see their struggle, which is a daily struggle, as a normal, self-understood struggle of people
00:16:07.140 who are under oppression and under occupation. So I, in my field, the legal field, I'm trying
00:16:13.280 really to show this picture to the average Israeli to the average Israeli
00:16:18.860 judge to the military judge in military courts and to go forward and reassure
00:16:25.160 everyone around me that this is the right thing to do and this is the right
00:16:29.480 way to do I'm not being taken as a hero in Israel on the contrary many would
00:16:35.460 consider me a traitor and a self-hating Jew as they like to say very often but I
00:16:42.380 I think, no, I'm a self-loving Jew and I'm not a traitor and I'm the pathfinder for the Israelis, perhaps. 0.83
00:16:49.860 So we are not only talking about the system, we are talking about, I would say, systematic occupation 0.75
00:16:56.400 that does everything in order to deny the Palestinians of their rights.
00:17:02.600 And we are a small minority of Israelis, but quite vocal and I believe, at the end, optimistic 0.95
00:17:11.580 that think there is another way.
00:17:14.320 And that's what we are trying to show.
00:17:16.180 And I'm doing it in my small field.
00:17:18.540 You will see the story of the film.
00:17:21.020 The film is called Advocate.
00:17:23.540 It is describing my life.
00:17:26.060 But it describes the life in a very accurate way.
00:17:31.060 The story, as you will see it in the movie,
00:17:33.440 is not about winning.
00:17:35.100 It's about losing.
00:17:36.780 Because on a daily basis,
00:17:38.660 the daily battles I lose, of course.
00:17:42.000 I lose it with honor.
00:17:43.460 I lose it with speaking a lot, as you can hear.
00:17:47.700 But it's not winning the cause yet.
00:17:51.200 But it's the right cause.
00:17:53.160 I hope it will be clear to whoever sees the film.
00:17:57.300 So, Philippe, thank you so much for being here.
00:17:59.660 And, you know, we're speaking about this winning and losing.
00:18:02.400 We're speaking about what it feels like to even be a traitor in your own country.
00:18:07.100 What was it like emotionally for you to be a part of this film?
00:18:10.760 This is such a major issue, and I think for the majority of the world,
00:18:15.220 we only know so little.
00:18:16.320 We really don't understand the complexity or the truths
00:18:19.860 that are happening in Israel between Palestine.
00:18:23.180 How you dealt with this topic emotionally?
00:18:26.460 Look, when you're doing a documentary,
00:18:29.720 one thing that motivates you is curiosity.
00:18:35.240 you hear things
00:18:37.660 you hear things
00:18:39.640 in the press or you hear things
00:18:41.440 in what people
00:18:43.880 are talking and you want to go
00:18:45.620 closer and see how it is
00:18:48.000 it's not the first thing
00:18:49.680 I'm doing and
00:18:51.020 what led me in this movie
00:18:53.680 was curiosity just to
00:18:55.400 I heard about
00:18:57.860 Lea then I knew
00:18:59.500 Lea for a
00:19:01.480 few years and I knew about
00:19:03.640 her work without exactly knowing what it means what is her daily life how she's doing it
00:19:10.680 how it feels to her what motivates a documentarian is exactly to pass what you read in the news
00:19:19.160 but just to go and observe and see how it's done and it's what we've been doing in the film
00:19:26.540 and like in any movie
00:19:28.740 some of the time your
00:19:30.460 camera is completely
00:19:32.700 living with the
00:19:34.720 character you're filming and sometimes
00:19:36.420 the camera takes a step or two
00:19:38.740 steps aside and is just watching
00:19:40.720 her
00:19:41.640 from distance so
00:19:43.840 emotionally sometimes I was completely
00:19:46.800 in tune with Leia
00:19:48.540 and sometimes I was more observing her
00:19:50.560 and reflecting and I hope it's what
00:19:52.780 the viewer
00:19:54.020 will get in the film
00:19:56.080 sometime being with her
00:19:59.060 and understanding her
00:20:00.040 and sometime thinking about her work
00:20:02.780 with a little distance
00:20:04.420 I want to start off
00:20:25.800 with a question around storytelling with integrity because I feel like with especially a lot of
00:20:33.320 native stories so much has been done from this kind of white dominance anthropological
00:20:40.400 storytelling where say a white European descent filmmaker or storyteller will come into a community
00:20:48.800 and extract the story rather than creating intimacy creating relationship and so I really
00:20:55.360 want to talk about the act of storytelling with integrity. The interesting thing about all of that
00:21:02.100 is... Director Jeff Palmer with his film Words from a Bear. I cut my teeth, I think, in filmmaking
00:21:09.420 as an anthropologist. So I went into anthropology because my father was a linguistic anthropologist
00:21:15.580 and the first films that I ever saw were ethnographic films on indigenous peoples
00:21:22.420 and I was pretty horrified.
00:21:25.640 I think I ultimately in the back of my mind thought,
00:21:29.940 wow, this is absolute exploitation.
00:21:33.340 And I also wondered in my mind that, you know,
00:21:35.820 like how did these people gain access and who gave them the right?
00:21:40.700 So me myself, you know, watching this and gazing up on this,
00:21:45.320 I was, I think, mortified.
00:21:47.480 I think I was certainly felt different than everybody else that may have been viewing those films in those days of being an undergrad.
00:21:57.740 The thing that's interesting about all of this is, you know, that opened the door for me.
00:22:01.960 I think I was saying to myself at that point, like, what if you were inside the culture and you made these films?
00:22:07.980 How would that change the narrative and how would that change the perspective?
00:22:12.520 And that really sent me on my path.
00:22:15.740 I mean, that's what I wanted to do.
00:22:17.480 So when you talk about storytelling with integrity, you know, that's what I felt was integrity was being on the inside.
00:22:24.600 What I found is that's quite difficult as well.
00:22:27.780 That's not a given.
00:22:29.680 You don't walk in and just say, here I am.
00:22:32.460 I'm a so-and-so native filmmaker and, you know, now I can have access to you.
00:22:38.760 And even within my own tribal culture, which this film revolves around in Words from a Bear, there's a lot of reverence that goes into this filmmaking.
00:22:47.820 And when you look at it from that perspective, you say, wow, how dare people just come right in and just grab and take?
00:22:55.480 because here's somebody that's within his own tribal group and he has to have reverence and he
00:23:01.120 has to understand what the elders feel is important and what they believe should be said
00:23:08.360 and things that should not be said. And so I went through a lot of effort to sit down with
00:23:15.840 tribal elders where I was either using their material or that we were going into these stories.
00:23:21.820 So hopefully this is what the film will do.
00:23:24.240 You know, that's why I made the film was like to have a discourse so that we can talk about things and celebrate things.
00:23:31.460 I mean, Scott Momaday's story is unique.
00:23:33.900 It's a unique story, but there's many Native people that have done great things.
00:23:38.320 You know, he's not the only one.
00:23:39.420 He just he opened the door of dialogue between Indigenous people and the non-Indigenous world in a way that I felt not very many people have been able to do.
00:23:50.080 Words from a Bear examines the enigmatic life and mind of Pulitzer Prize-winning author Navarro Scott Mamaday.
00:23:57.940 This profile delves into the psyche behind one of Native America's most celebrated authors of poetry and prose.
00:24:04.520 Words from a Bear visually captures the essence of Mamaday's writings, relating each written line to his unique Kioa American experience, representing ancestry, place, and oral history.
00:24:16.720 He has an incredible childhood. You know, he grew up in the Dust Bowl era, you know, in abject poverty. So again, like this is a unique American story. It's like the American dream, right? But seen through the lens of a Kiowa man. And so we haven't seen that American story.
00:24:35.120 We haven't seen that American dream story. And, you know, his parents were amazing educators in his life.
00:24:42.220 And he spent a lot of time studying and ended up at Stanford University and wrote his first novel, Housemaid of Dawn.
00:24:53.240 And within a few years, won the Pulitzer. And and that changed everything.
00:24:58.440 I mean, the mere fact that he won the Pulitzer in 1969, okay, this is a time when Native people in this country couldn't even practice their own religion, and he won the Pulitzer, especially in such an amazing time period in 1969 where we're in the middle of the Vietnam War.
00:25:18.440 there's assassinations happening all of these different things and here's this Indian man
00:25:25.400 winning the Pulitzer that was just so exciting to me I thought wow why did this happen how did
00:25:32.740 this happen it almost seems like the impossible so for me it was like I wanted to tell this story
00:25:39.700 of what the possibilities are right that as native people we can go out into the world we can do
00:25:46.200 great things and and that i find a kindred spirit with with scott because i think having this film
00:25:52.620 at sundance and and i i think there's eight films that are made by indigenous people this year at
00:25:59.600 the festival that's wonderful you know we're doing things and we're showing that there's
00:26:05.080 possibilities for all of us to tell our stories to have communication and we're reaching out and
00:26:12.320 we're saying, look, we want to talk. We want to share with you and not have this wall between us.
00:26:20.560 And I think Scott's work did that in that particular time period. He brought people
00:26:24.900 together over this novel that seemingly shouldn't have happened, right?
00:26:30.980 in the span of only a handful of generations the tiger has been transformed from a venerated
00:26:46.040 creature with a role in our cultural consciousness into a major source of revenue and the population
00:26:51.920 of wild tigers in asia has dropped from over 100 000 to less than 4 000 tigerland illustrates
00:26:59.400 how shifting political realities in Russia and India
00:27:02.040 created a lucrative poaching underworld
00:27:04.320 that decimated the tiger population.
00:27:07.840 Okay, so who were the people who have revered them?
00:27:11.660 Did you learn about their culture while creating this film?
00:27:15.040 And what do you think shifted?
00:27:17.820 Like, I know a lot of times
00:27:19.060 people don't necessarily want to destroy their land base.
00:27:22.660 They don't want to destroy these creatures.
00:27:25.060 But something maybe comes into their village,
00:27:27.040 comes into their place that destroys their land base.
00:27:29.840 And a lot of times, not to say they have no choice,
00:27:32.900 but there is a third component that creates a fissure in their culture.
00:27:39.500 Yeah, well, you hit the nail on the head, I mean.
00:27:42.460 Producer Zan Parker and director Ross Kaufman from the film Tigerland.
00:27:47.560 An interesting thing to consider that we learned
00:27:50.600 was how much things changed for wildlife
00:27:54.120 and for the wilderness in Far Eastern Russia
00:27:56.140 when the USSR broke apart.
00:27:58.760 People probably don't think a lot of the time
00:28:01.540 about how animals were faring under communism,
00:28:04.060 but they were faring actually quite well.
00:28:06.520 And then when capitalism became the new way of life,
00:28:10.020 and not just capitalism, but the corruption
00:28:11.600 that went along with the transition, the open borders,
00:28:14.640 suddenly these foreign lumber companies
00:28:17.440 could come in and chop down the forests.
00:28:20.100 I mean, that's something that happened in the 90s, right?
00:28:22.960 And then you look at the shifts in India,
00:28:25.620 which is another country that we focused on, that had to do with an economy that had to grow
00:28:30.580 and it had to support a lot of people. And so there's a lot of industrialization and a lot of
00:28:35.180 changes because of that. So it isn't one moment. I think both of us wanted to celebrate how the
00:28:42.480 cultures respected and revered the tiger because they still do. I think all the Asian cultures
00:28:48.240 still very much do. In India, it's also, I think there's 40,000 tigers in the beginning of the last
00:28:54.660 century. Now there's less than 2,500. And a lot of that was British colonialization. Tigers were
00:29:01.280 all over. I don't know if they were as ubiquitous as deer are in the Northeast, but it was that
00:29:07.420 similar kind of attitude that, you know, they're all over the place. You know, we can shoot them 0.77
00:29:11.140 for sport. That went on for 50, 60 years, 70 years until people like Kailash Sankala, the activist 0.98
00:29:19.860 and the conservationists in our film really spoke up against it and created change.
00:29:26.020 And, you know, I think it's really key to remember that there aren't really any bad guys
00:29:31.460 and that our love and reverence for the tiger.
00:29:34.560 Okay, there's some bad guys.
00:29:35.660 But I guess what I was saying is that the love and the reverence that so many of us have for the tiger,
00:29:40.040 it's just one side of the coin.
00:29:41.340 The other side of the same coin is people wanting to push them for using their body parts,
00:29:46.240 you know, for the products, for medicine or for luxury products.
00:29:49.140 It's because people worship the tiger that they want parts of them.
00:29:53.120 And it's because people worship the tiger that they wanted to shoot one.
00:29:56.280 You know, they wanted the rug or they wanted the fur or they wanted the head on the wall.
00:29:59.540 It's because of man's obsession with this dominant, fierce, beautiful creature.
00:30:19.140 Without warning, Claudio Rojo is detained by ICE officials outside of his Florida home.
00:30:33.560 He is transferred to the Broward Transitional Center, a detention facility used as a holding
00:30:38.400 space for imminent deportations. Terrified of never seeing him again, Claudio's family contacts
00:30:44.580 the National Immigrant Youth Alliance, a group of activist dreamers known for stopping deportations.
00:30:51.300 Believing that no one is free as long as one is in detention, NIYA enlists Marco Saavedra
00:30:57.700 to self-deport with hopes of gaining access to the detention center and impeding Claudio's expulsion.
00:31:03.700 Once inside, Marco discovers a complex for-profit institution housing hundreds of multinational 0.92
00:31:09.300 immigrants, all imprisoned without trial. Yeah, my name is Mohamed Abdullahi, and I am here from 0.97
00:31:16.040 Michigan, originally from Iran. And yeah, do you want me to spell my name or that's good?
00:31:23.200 Hi, my name is Viridiana Martinez. I'm 32. I'm from North Carolina.
00:31:29.280 Dreamers, from the film The Infiltrators.
00:31:32.880 So the work that we've always done is sort of like we do something and then we learn,
00:31:36.960 we learn from it and then we sort of adapt for the next project that we work on when we did the
00:31:41.560 Broward stuff we sort of first time we got exposed deeply to sort of like the asylum system a lot of
00:31:47.780 people inside the detention were seeking asylum and through working with offices etc we sort of
00:31:52.440 got exposed to that part of the process and some of the things that were really alarming for us is
00:31:56.700 the judge that's in Florida Rex Ford has a 99 denial rate on asylum so out of 100 cases that
00:32:03.580 hears only one person will get granted asylum. And so that was very glaring for us. Whenever we
00:32:09.320 compare that to other detention centers around the country, sometimes usually it was like 40%,
00:32:13.700 50%. And so that sort of exposed the system to us. So the next action that we did immediately
00:32:18.160 after the Broward Detention Center was this action that we did was bring them home, which 0.81
00:32:22.660 specifically focuses on a lot of the issues you're mentioning, folks that were seeking asylum to come
00:32:28.080 to the U.S. or folks that had previously been deported. And one of the things that we found is
00:32:33.720 because of the fact that asylum is not respected in this country, and the reason it's not respected 1.00
00:32:39.420 is because you have a lot more people coming from our southern border than are ever coming from
00:32:43.640 Asia and other places seeking asylum. Their asylum rates are granted at very high rates
00:32:47.980 compared to people from south of the border. And the reason I bring that up is because if people 0.72
00:32:52.380 are not getting granted asylum cases on very real crises that are happening in their home
00:32:57.960 countries like the coup in Honduras that the Clinton administration supported and other things.
00:33:03.340 We do regularly see people that are fleeing because they can't access water. Their crops
00:33:09.040 aren't growing anymore because of the droughts, all these sorts of things. And they stand zero
00:33:13.480 chance of being able to get asylum because we're still trying to catch up with laws from 20 years
00:33:18.580 ago to get people that have very clear violence, have been kidnapped by the government. These are
00:33:23.760 such clear cases that you see getting denied. And so that's what we sort of learned when we're in
00:33:29.140 Broward, how much deeper the system is, and how it really is designed to be this way for people to
00:33:37.020 lose hope to sign their deportations to leave. And one of the things that was really the most
00:33:42.520 scary for us is that theoretically, there's organizations in Florida, they get $4 million
00:33:47.420 a year to defend immigrants in the detention center, but they don't provide the services.
00:33:52.040 And for us, it's very clear that that's part of the system.
00:33:55.020 Their funding comes from the Department of Justice, and they're supposed to then provide
00:33:59.320 know your rights for people in the detention centers.
00:34:01.760 And so after we saw that several times, we realized that this is how the system is set
00:34:05.480 up.
00:34:05.700 On one end, the government says, oh, they all have access to counsel.
00:34:08.400 They're learning their rights.
00:34:09.780 And on the other side, 99% denial rate.
00:34:12.820 Representative Deutsch doesn't know the detention center exists.
00:34:15.500 And this organization that's down there is responsible for advocating for these people.
00:34:20.280 the whole system is very intentional it's cool that you said it was intentional because it's
00:34:23.880 so intentional and for us it's very obvious but we've never had a platform to say that so 0.86
00:34:28.200 but a lot of climate refugees are already coming and they really stand absolutely no chance on the 0.85
00:34:33.720 border right now when you present yourself if you do not get a positive fear interview within a week
00:34:38.900 of arriving you're just expedited removal and those folks coming with climate issues they stand
00:34:44.500 zero chance nobody's paying attention to them at all yeah i mean it i think that there's a lot
00:34:50.800 obviously to be said about people who are coming here but if we talk about the people who are
00:34:57.440 already here i mean the oppression is on all levels um and i mean like for example the case of
00:35:05.960 laura one of the ladies in um broward she was an afro-honduran who was actually beat up by miami
00:35:14.100 police department and her arm was broken so she was in Broward wearing a cast so again that was 0.61
00:35:22.220 like police department an agency that you trust to protect and serve and she's going to them for
00:35:29.080 help and instead of helping her they detain her you know like that the fact that access to higher
00:35:36.260 education you know for for undocumented kids I mean I come from a state I come from North Carolina
00:35:43.180 In North Carolina, we can't pay in-state tuition like our peers, like our citizen peers.
00:35:49.000 And so what does that mean is that I don't get to go to college.
00:35:53.060 I have to go right into the workforce.
00:35:55.260 What does that do to my psyche?
00:35:57.080 Like, what does that do to my, what are my options, you know, in my future?
00:36:01.380 So I think what's really awesome about Broward and all the other stuff that we've done,
00:36:07.380 And I mean, not just Broward, but it's great that it's, you know, it's finally it's got this platform and people are going to watch it and people are going to be like, whoa, this is amazing.
00:36:17.460 But what's really great about it for me is that it shows people that there's a way that they do have power and that even if we are undocumented, we're not powerless.
00:36:27.580 We can we can fight back and we can organize and we can do so effectively.
00:36:33.180 And you don't need to have tons of money.
00:36:35.200 you can be going against the wave and still beat it. I think that's what's really powerful about
00:36:42.100 about Broward. And it's what gives me hope because otherwise, quite frankly, like,
00:36:46.760 it's really depressing. And if I think of all the people that in all the organizations,
00:36:53.360 all the institutions that that have worked against us throughout the years, honestly,
00:36:58.260 the Tea Party is not our biggest opponent. Like, you know, the Republicans are not
00:37:03.000 our biggest opponent it's been the people who claim to be our friends that actually take
00:37:09.100 advantage of us and pimp us out that's what's hard through all this um and so there's an established
00:37:16.180 organization in southern florida called americans for immigrant justice um and americans for
00:37:21.260 immigrant justice has like i'm sure multi-million dollar budget um they have attorneys they have
00:37:28.080 They're very close with Democrats. And yet Congressman Ted Deutch didn't know that the detention center existed before we came along. It's like, where's our like, why? Why are these organizations with multimillion dollar budgets not facilitating due process? Instead, they're actually stumbling blocks.
00:37:49.340 And this sort of replicates itself all around the country. I mean, just in the last three years,
00:37:54.520 there's probably been over a million Central Americans that have come to this country fleeing
00:37:58.180 persecution. And there's only about 15,000 immigration attorneys in this country. And so
00:38:02.820 if you assume every single one of them does deportation cases, there's not enough resources
00:38:07.200 in this country. And ironically enough, the Trump administration expedited the cases of people that
00:38:12.740 are fleeing violence, the people that need the most time to prepare their cases.
00:38:17.020 so I think this film really for us sets the stage for people to know that there can be sort of like
00:38:23.060 creative energy there's creative ways to do things and the biggest myth that we really want
00:38:29.220 to challenge as it comes to the undocumented community and that is challenged through this film
00:38:34.060 is you have to go against the norm the more quiet you are the more in the shadows you are the more 0.88
00:38:39.020 in danger you are and that's how the system wants you to live when you speak up when you hold your
00:38:43.980 head up. And when you start organizing together, you can really dismantle things. When we set out
00:38:49.160 to do Broward, our whole strategy was that if we can teach immigrants not to be afraid, then
00:38:54.900 everyone loses power over us. I mean, there's no congressional office that we can't get on board.
00:39:00.480 There's no detention center that we can't empty. And once we start doing that, then the entire
00:39:05.320 system falls apart. And so that was sort of the seed behind the Broward Detention Center action.
00:39:09.700 And we did several other infiltrations as well.
00:39:13.980 From the devastated Great Barrier Reef in Australia, to the concrete seawalls that cover
00:39:34.760 60% of mainland China's coast, to the biggest terrestrial machines ever built in Germany,
00:39:40.480 to psychedelic potash mines in Russia's Ural Mountains
00:39:44.180 to surreal lithium evaporation ponds in the Atacama Desert.
00:39:48.900 The Anthropocene crew travels to six continents and 20 different countries
00:39:53.220 to capture stunning images chronicling the catastrophic path traveled by our species over the last century.
00:40:00.020 Hi, this is Ed. This is my normal speaking voice.
00:40:03.120 And this is my normal speaking voice.
00:40:06.000 I guess this is my normal speaking voice.
00:40:08.120 If it's going to be this close, maybe it is, maybe it's not.
00:40:11.020 Directors Edward Berninski, Jennifer Bashwell, and Nick Depensier
00:40:15.120 with the film Anthropocene, the human epoch.
00:40:18.960 When we learned about the research of the Anthropocene Working Group,
00:40:23.320 which is the group of scientists who are gathering evidence
00:40:26.280 to try and ratify the Anthropocene as an official term
00:40:30.120 in the geological timescale,
00:40:31.400 we thought that was a fascinating and also increasingly rare perspective
00:40:36.640 on the whole human project they really are looking at planetary scale and geological time
00:40:44.140 and in our frenetic modern lives we don't do that a lot we were bombarded with the present
00:40:50.060 and then when we researched more and we discovered that they were having this exact conversation
00:40:56.540 where do we start what is the definition of the start of the anthropocene is it the industrial
00:41:01.520 revolution because they they really have to look at that empirically but also philosophically
00:41:05.660 We thought that's a really interesting conversation to have.
00:41:08.960 And so that ability to visualize exactly what is going on and not have it as a blind spot and not have it as something that we aren't dealing with is precisely the ambition of this film.
00:41:22.400 to go and find these places and bring back pictures that are like witnessing
00:41:26.420 and put them together and juxtapose them
00:41:29.260 so that somebody viewing the film will come away,
00:41:33.020 hopefully, with an appreciation of this unprecedented scale.
00:41:37.420 The project is a feature documentary film.
00:41:41.200 It's also a museum exhibition.
00:41:43.000 It's two books, and it's a whole education program.
00:41:46.340 We're really trying to use every possible combination of lens-based media
00:41:51.900 to find some way of resonating with people.
00:41:54.780 So it's been a five-year project.
00:41:57.520 And one of the things that we really looked at in the research phase,
00:42:00.640 which was about a year, was all the critiques of Anthropocene.
00:42:05.900 You know, there's the Capitalocene term,
00:42:08.800 which I'm sure you've heard before,
00:42:10.100 that Anthropocene is not the fault of all humans,
00:42:12.880 but the fault of a very select group of humans,
00:42:15.780 and the fault of a system that believes in unlimited growth
00:42:21.180 as the norm, right?
00:42:22.680 So there's that. 0.70
00:42:23.480 There is the Indigenous critique. 1.00
00:42:24.880 There's a feminist critique.
00:42:25.920 There are many different critiques 0.92
00:42:27.380 of the term as a kind of blanket term.
00:42:31.260 And we grappled with all of those
00:42:33.220 while we were making the film.
00:42:35.640 And in all of the work that we've done together,
00:42:38.700 you know, whenever we go into environments,
00:42:40.940 there is an act of arrogance
00:42:42.360 and going all around the world
00:42:43.600 and sort of landing somewhere
00:42:45.200 and thinking you have something meaningful
00:42:46.460 to say about that place.
00:42:47.700 And so the way that we interact
00:42:51.000 with these contexts is very much from a position of humility and trying to learn about what the
00:42:59.040 truth of that place is. We don't travel with the script. I've never made a script. In 25 years of
00:43:03.840 making documentary films, I've never written a script. And I don't believe that it's possible
00:43:08.740 to do that. You can't engage with reality and then dictate what is going to happen because then you
00:43:13.380 don't see what is happening around you. So you have to have this sort of openness and also kind
00:43:17.740 of having a plan but being ready to abandon that plan at any moment if reality doesn't take you
00:43:22.880 that way. So in every one of these places that we've been to, many really heavy, difficult
00:43:29.400 environments, there have been moments of connection, moments of hope. You know, we were at the London
00:43:37.500 Zoo filming species that are either extinct in the wild or critically endangered. And the
00:43:43.500 Zoological Society of London has an unbelievable program of conservation. Zoos have become
00:43:48.980 the agents of conservation. You know, they used to be a place where you went to see animals that
00:43:53.840 were suffering. And now they have become the main conservation agents for animals and other
00:44:01.160 species around the world. And you just see these people who spend every day, you know, the woman
00:44:06.120 who tended the mountain chicken frog babies, you know, she was their mother two years before they
00:44:12.540 could she could take them back and reintroduce them into the wild so for every sort of terrible
00:44:18.460 moment there was an opposite moment of of hopefulness people persevering with dignity
00:44:26.040 in very difficult situations trying to make a living for their family or species possibly being
00:44:33.140 reintegrated back into the wild or people actively positively working for change working for positive
00:44:40.120 change. And so the whole project is an act of hope on our part. It's an act of hope to say
00:44:47.040 that it's not too late, actually. We're incredibly ingenious creatures. We just have to turn that
00:44:53.880 ingenuity to pulling the earth back into a safe place for all life. And so I would say that I
00:45:00.740 ended this whole experience, and there were many, and everybody has a story of the most profound
00:45:06.820 experiences we have, but came out of it with hope. One of the scenes that for me was one of
00:45:15.380 the most painful to witness was in Kenya, outside of Nairobi, Kenya National Park. And they took all 1.00
00:45:24.440 the tusk piles that were confiscated from poachers over a period of a decade. And they estimated
00:45:31.520 there was about 10,000 elephant tusks that were confiscated and in storage, and rather than
00:45:40.360 letting them go out into the marketplace and be turned into tchotchkes, you know, bangles or
00:45:47.700 whatever else, you know, that currently ivory is being used for, they said, let's burn it and let's
00:45:53.480 not let this animal be desecrated once more and be used as ornaments, but they made 11 piles,
00:46:00.620 and pyres of these elephant tusks
00:46:03.100 and it very much opens the film
00:46:05.280 and in the way closes the film as well
00:46:07.180 but being in the presence of that burning
00:46:09.360 and when you understand
00:46:10.160 if you've spent any time around elephants
00:46:12.460 and you understand the majestic nature of these animals
00:46:15.860 and you understand that these are sentient beings
00:46:18.220 their herds are like family
00:46:20.560 and they have memory
00:46:21.920 they're amazing creatures
00:46:23.900 and they understand when one of theirs is lost
00:46:27.000 or killed by humans
00:46:28.080 they don't miss that
00:46:30.380 And when you think the carnage and knowing that every year 12% are being decimated every year to this illegal poaching, it's a hard, you know, it's a totally unnecessary extinction.
00:46:44.560 It seems to be a totally one that we should be able to stop.
00:46:48.520 But yet, you know, it's so hard.
00:46:50.520 So it really, for me, it's painful to think that we just can't seem to get that right.
00:46:56.180 I mean, there's a battle being fought right now in Africa.
00:46:58.660 and a lot of these rangers park rangers have to be armed you know like military because the
00:47:06.160 poachers are military now so the whole front is militarizing and and it's painful and i know that
00:47:13.060 you know speaking again you know you see these you know when you close the borders to ivory then
00:47:18.140 it really does stop if you've caught you're criminally charged you're fined you're jailed
00:47:22.300 you're whatever and now some of these things are opening up again rhino horns opening up again in
00:47:27.580 china and i remember hearing someone said well what if uh we here in africa thought that you
00:47:33.660 know panda spleen was the a great thing for us and that that's our tradition because they're
00:47:38.820 claiming it's their tradition well these traditions go both ways we have to actually
00:47:42.740 get beyond that kind of thinking and say no no these are important animals in the whole matrix
00:47:50.780 of the planet and when they've gone missing we don't know what happens you know we don't know
00:47:56.180 what the consequences of that is.
00:47:59.060 But again, there's a lot of people
00:48:01.000 with their hearts in the right place
00:48:02.360 trying to stop it.
00:48:03.120 Let's just hope that they win the day.
00:48:04.380 My silver woman 1.00
00:48:20.620 Bare face undressed 0.87
00:48:27.020 Thunder and lightning
00:48:31.900 Okay, so here we are at Sundance with Sherry, the chief curator of New Frontier.
00:48:54.440 And this interview really does feel like a crown jewel in so many ways for us
00:48:58.920 because I feel like you are curating the cutting edge of culture shifting.
00:49:05.620 New Frontier at Sundance Institute is a cross-programmatic initiative
00:49:09.820 created to identify and foster independent artists
00:49:12.640 working at the convergence of film, art, media, live performance, music, and technology.
00:49:19.860 Sundance Institute established the New Frontier Story Lab in 2011
00:49:23.480 to deepen its support of storytellers pioneering new ways
00:49:27.160 of working across various media and engaging with technology.
00:49:30.800 And in 2014, began the New Frontier Flash Lab and Artist Residency Programs.
00:49:36.420 I'm really interested to hear how you came to this,
00:49:41.560 I don't want to say career, I want to say vision of being able to curate.
00:49:47.120 Well, I think I came to this intersectional practice because of who I am.
00:49:54.460 Sherry Freelow, the chief curator for New Frontier.
00:49:58.360 I grew up in Denver, and I'm half Puerto Rican, half Creole.
00:50:03.820 Growing up in a neighborhood, in a community that I couldn't see other people that looked like me.
00:50:11.480 So I grew up with a lot of like, you're not this, you're not that, you're not white, you're not black.
00:50:16.120 And I came to really hate thinking about myself in terms of knots, knots, knots.
00:50:22.120 and then I learned about quantum physics and I learned that the fundamental quality of our
00:50:29.180 existence exists as a wave and a particle at the same time simultaneous so I can be Puerto Rican
00:50:37.220 and I can be Creole I can be all of these multiple identities beings I can hold them all at the same
00:50:45.280 time simultaneously and that would that it brought me an enormous power to claim my own existence and
00:50:51.500 my own authority over my existence.
00:50:54.140 And so I moved forward in my practice.
00:50:57.300 I went to school on an engineering scholarship I studied,
00:51:00.740 but I was very interested in culture.
00:51:02.820 Once I got to Sundance,
00:51:05.660 my goal was to make the culture here more capacious,
00:51:09.240 more people, increase the diversity of the films,
00:51:12.460 bring more voices, bring more visions into it.
00:51:15.500 And the landscape started to shift
00:51:17.580 as technology swung and made what was possible more capacious
00:51:22.740 in terms of expressions, I basically started New Frontier.
00:51:27.520 Because a lot of our filmmakers were making work for YouTube all of a sudden.
00:51:33.020 They were creating works on CD-ROM.
00:51:35.700 They were artists who were coming into the festival
00:51:38.020 with full-fledged feature films from the art world.
00:51:41.080 So I started to see this intersectionality that was happening organically
00:51:45.220 And we decided to create a platform for this work and these practices.
00:51:50.460 So I know some of the new technologies that are being shown at New Frontiers is VR, AR works.
00:51:58.880 And it's interesting because I've had conversations with people who are really engaged activists.
00:52:05.700 And there's a spectrum of critiques on AR and VR.
00:52:09.900 It's like, oh, well, why are we doing that?
00:52:11.380 Like, why are we in these goggles or, you know, what is the world coming to?
00:52:15.640 And we're, you know, and so I've heard that end of the spectrum or it's for the elites,
00:52:19.600 like who is even going to be able to see this?
00:52:21.280 And it's only one person at a time.
00:52:23.180 And then I've also had the experience where I have been completely transported into areas
00:52:30.560 all over the world that I would never be able to experience, understand.
00:52:35.340 And so I want to hear from you, maybe speaking to the critiques that people may,
00:52:40.780 Maybe you've heard from people around VR and AR and just kind of this hyper technological world, because, of course, we could look at that as being a way to distance us from land base.
00:52:53.820 It can distance us from natural systems.
00:52:56.680 It can also do something else.
00:52:58.400 And so I kind of would love to hear you speak on both sides of the spectrum and really explain to us, like, where do you feel like the power is in AR and VR?
00:53:06.660 Well, these technologies are in a very experimental stage.
00:53:11.200 There's a lot of excitement about it, a lot of investment that's gone into it because of the power of the experience.
00:53:19.400 I mean, it really is a big shift in communication, basically, that I'm able to communicate to you something,
00:53:28.120 not just through your eyes or brain or even through your biochemistry, but through your body experience,
00:53:33.520 It's the relationship between your reptile brain, you know, our primal brain and our bodies, our instinct.
00:53:40.280 I can actually communicate through those avenues of your body.
00:53:43.900 That hasn't really been true before in terms of a digital situation.
00:53:48.620 So that's why people are really excited and there's a lot of money going in.
00:53:52.540 But it is four years old.
00:53:55.780 It is young, you know, like Oculus became Oculus in 2014.
00:54:02.140 Let's remember that.
00:54:03.520 So it's only, it's like turning five.
00:54:07.100 So this is very emerging.
00:54:10.140 We're at the very, very beginning of this technological development.
00:54:14.820 And so as a baby, you know, we're one at a time, kinds of experiences.
00:54:21.200 And here's the thing, as a curator looking at this stuff,
00:54:23.900 I'm thinking, you know, two years ago,
00:54:26.340 the work that I was going to see that I was hoping that it would reach,
00:54:30.440 which is, you know, a social way to reach out to other people
00:54:35.240 or experience with other people is 10 years down the line.
00:54:38.040 And every year, those visions happen the next year.
00:54:41.540 So the development is happening at a hyperbolic rate.
00:54:45.780 What you have to keep in mind are the values behind this technology.
00:54:49.340 You know, storytelling is a technology.
00:54:51.860 The kinds of stories that you tell, why you're telling them,
00:54:55.040 is really what's important, the values.
00:54:57.960 It's the same thing with the technology.
00:54:59.220 you know this this new digital technology it's all about the values behind it and how you use it
00:55:05.040 here's what what's interesting to me about the importance of this happening right now of being
00:55:13.340 able to communicate through the actual body because we're individual we're particles it's
00:55:18.540 going back to this quantum physics wave particle duality because you know as particles particularly
00:55:25.020 in western culture you know we're individual we're we're our own person and and we tend to
00:55:32.260 we're rugged individualists and we tend to scale our actions and see the world through that very
00:55:39.200 limited scope and scale but our actions go way beyond that scope and scale and we're and we're
00:55:46.280 we're feeling the massive effects of that particularly around in our environment and
00:55:51.940 our biosphere and you know our ability to to understand who we are we're in an identity crisis
00:55:59.100 we only know one part of us we know the individual but we're social creatures human beings are social
00:56:06.000 animals and what do how do we identify in that way that's beyond the immediate survival instinct
00:56:12.700 you know here comes vr that that communicates through that survival instinct and it's networked
00:56:19.900 And it's developing at a hyperbolic rate.
00:56:23.720 There's an opportunity here,
00:56:25.780 particularly being embraced by artists,
00:56:28.200 as in my experience,
00:56:30.400 to bring people together
00:56:33.080 in ways that inspire awe,
00:56:35.720 open the imagination,
00:56:37.060 and help people create in these environments.
00:56:39.840 And that's what swims upstream
00:56:43.260 from how technology is used in other ways.
00:56:47.540 It's like, let's say, it swims upstream for the trend of digital platforms
00:56:53.160 and their control on our lives and our time.
00:56:57.620 You know, Cambridge Analytica, we showed the film called
00:56:59.720 The Great Hack here at the festival about how Facebook and this company
00:57:04.320 were using Facebook profiles to affect the election surreptitiously.
00:57:10.040 But this is the kind of technology, you know, values behind the technology
00:57:13.560 or you seem to control people to sway as opposed to create and do something new.
00:57:19.200 So, you know, it really is in the hands of the maker.
00:57:23.200 But I think that we desperately need as a culture, as a species,
00:57:28.580 to understand our true identity, which is dual.
00:57:31.900 It's individual and it's completely bound up with one another.
00:57:35.760 And to scale that, if we're able to see ourselves as an organism
00:57:40.200 that's planet-wide,
00:57:42.800 we make different choices.
00:58:04.980 Thank you for listening
00:58:06.940 to this special edition
00:58:08.340 Sundance Film Festival episode of For the Wild podcast.
00:58:12.540 I'm Ayanna Young.
00:58:14.120 The music you heard today was from R.F. Shannon and Fountain Sun.
00:58:18.660 I'd like to thank our podcast team,
00:58:21.300 our co-producer and editor, Andrew Storrs,
00:58:24.100 our co-producer and writer, Francesca Glassbell,
00:58:27.440 our communications director, Aaron Wise,
00:58:30.320 our music coordinator, Carter Lou McElroy,
00:58:32.500 and our co-managing directors, Mara Joy and Melanie Younger.
00:58:38.340 We'll be right back.