00:00:17.240Welcome to For the Wild podcast. I'm Ayanna Young.
00:00:25.220They're enforcing jurisdiction on our lands and territories.
00:00:29.400to uphold the rights of corporations over the rights of Indigenous communities.
00:00:35.560And I just don't understand how they continue to be the hero1.00
00:00:39.600while Indigenous communities continue to be the villain.1.00
00:00:42.860And it's so important that independent media, that media gets in to start telling the real story0.74
00:00:49.580so that we can start to unravel the real history of what colonization has done to Indigenous peoples
00:00:55.420and what colonization has done to our understanding
00:00:57.760of who are the villains and who are the heroes in our stories.
00:01:04.520Today we are speaking with Arielle Sekwiderange.
00:01:08.280Arielle is the executive director and co-founder of Indigenous Climate Action,
00:01:13.140Canada's premier Indigenous-led climate justice organization.
00:01:17.220Arielle is a member of the Athabasca Chippewan First Nation
00:01:20.420and has over a decade of experience working with water protectors
00:01:23.500and land defenders in the fight against fossil fuel development. Ariel is internationally
00:01:28.440recognized and has worked with a variety of groups ranging from the Indigenous Environmental
00:01:32.340Network, Sierra Club Canada, the Rainforest Action Network, and the UN International
00:01:37.740Indigenous Peoples Forum on Climate Change, to name a few.
00:01:42.980In this conversation, Ariel and I speak about the Unastoten Camp in British Columbia.
00:01:48.120The material in this interview is time-sensitive, and we're choosing to release it with no
00:01:52.440musical breaks in order to get you as much information as possible. After listening to
00:01:57.140this conversation, we hope that you continue to learn about this topic and use the links and the
00:02:02.260resources that Arielle provides throughout the conversation. You can also find these links and
00:02:06.700resources on our website at forthewild.world under this episode. Thank you for your care,
00:02:12.440your concern, and your future engagement. Now on to the show. It feels really nice to have you on
00:02:19.200as a friend and comrade. And so I just want to start off by saying I'm really happy to be talking
00:02:26.000to you. Thank you. Thanks for having me. I always love talking with you. So before we really begin
00:02:32.780to dive into the questions of this interview, I think it'd be helpful to clarify just a few things
00:02:38.260about the Wet'suwet'en First Nation. So the Wet'suwet'en, and of course I may not be pronouncing
00:02:45.940it correctly are located in the central interior of so-called british columbia and they're comprised
00:02:52.760of five clans within each of these clans are between two to three house groups for example
00:02:59.240the unistotin are part of the gil sehu clan and currently the wetsuitin are facing the development
00:03:06.980of a pipeline on their unceded traditional territory the pipeline is 415 miles long and
00:03:14.660it's a liquefied natural gas pipeline that is to run from northeast BC to Kitimat's LNG Canada
00:03:21.120export terminal, which is owned by TransCanada, which is the same corporation who funded Keystone
00:03:27.160XL. The pipeline is a $40 billion project that is expected to be running by 2022. Now in response
00:03:35.220to previous pipeline projects, the Wet'suwet'en established a checkpoint on their lands back in
00:03:41.9802008, and in 2015, all the hereditary chiefs agreed that no pipelines were to be built on
00:03:47.960their unceded territory. However, in November of 2018, Coastal GasLink applied for an injunction.
00:03:56.640By December, the BC Supreme Court issued a temporary injunction, prohibiting anyone from
00:04:02.660blocking the bridge and ordering the checkpoint to be dismantled immediately. Now, in response,
00:04:08.500Una Stotenkamp refused to remove their lawful checkpoint, and expecting the worst, the Gidimtin0.97
00:04:15.600established a second checkpoint. On January 7th, 2019, Royal Canadian Mounted Police officers armed
00:04:23.220with battens and assault rifles crossed the Gidimtin checkpoint and arrested 14 people.
00:04:30.960On January 10th, the Wet'suwet'en hereditary chiefs met with RCMP officers and came to an agreement under the threat of continued state-sanctioned violence that they would comply with CGL's injunction.
00:04:45.720So now that we have that established, and please correct me if any of that is not up-to-date information,
00:04:53.880I wanted to now speak to, in the last two months, many media outlets have framed the Unastoten camp as a site of protest and resistance.
00:05:03.080Now, this portrayal confines the camp's existence solely in relationship to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and TransCanada.
00:05:10.780So I'd love if you could begin by sharing the historical significance of the Unastoten camp
00:05:15.800in terms of reclamation and decolonization of community and connection to land.
00:05:22.320You know, what is the significance of this place beyond just the blockade?
00:05:26.720You know, that's a really, really, really important thing to discuss
00:05:30.460because I do think that the media has really sort of minimized the importance that this camp
00:05:37.320and this settlement. It's not a camp, because a camp implies something that's temporary,
00:05:42.780but it is a settlement where people have settled. It is not just a settlement of a few individuals,
00:05:48.480but it's a settlement of a community that's in the process of revitalizing and restoring
00:05:53.560the hereditary chief and clan house systems, not just as individuals with recognition and
00:06:01.100distinction, but as a restoration of what it means to be a clan house leader. And that means
00:06:07.500being back in your lands and territories, building that relationship, not just with
00:06:12.020your community, but building that relationship with land. And so some of the founders of
00:06:17.300the Unastoten settlement in 2010, so there was a, the settlement really began in 2010.
00:06:25.260And in the summer of 2010, some of the people that had been really sort of speaking out and joining the fight against the Alberta tar sands, and at that time, the territory was threatened by the Enbridge Northern Gateway Pipeline, which is now no longer a pipeline that's proposed, it's been taken away, the government has cancelled that project.
00:06:45.760And that project was canceled largely in part from the participation of the folks in Unastotin, through the folks in the Yinka-Dene Alliance, through the folks Haida Kwai, all the First Nations along the corridor in British Columbia and parts of Alberta.
00:07:03.180And so there's a long history of these people looking to defend this land and this territory and restore it under the rightful jurisdiction of the hereditary leadership of the communities in that region.
00:07:16.140And so what I've seen and what I've witnessed is not just a protest and a camp be developed, but I've seen and I've witnessed how this land has been transformed into a place where people are reconnecting with their culture, with their identity, with what it means to have Indigenous governance and leadership in a true way that is connected and not governed by individuals, but really governed by the land.
00:07:39.940And that's really what we would talk about decolonization and this camp and this settlement and this protest and this action that's going off in BC is we minimize what it's meaning for the people and what it means for decolonization if we just talk about it as a protest and a camp.
00:07:59.040this is a place where people are beginning that process of true decolonization and i've said it
00:08:06.400before and i'll say it again you know the basic foundation of decolonization is a return of
00:08:12.720and connection to land and when we start there we start to see how it builds upon the languages
00:08:19.600that connects us to those places the culture that connects to those places and the governance
00:08:24.720what it means to be governed by that land and protected in relationship with that land.
00:08:29.640And that is what the hereditary and clan house leaders of the Wet'suwet'en have been doing in
00:08:35.260that territory for the last 10 years. And they're being threatened by the continued0.99
00:08:40.120neoliberal agenda of the Canadian and international governments to diminish what
00:08:46.780Indigenous sovereignty and governance really looks like.
00:08:49.260Now, I was reading that undergoing the threats of violence, the Wet'suwet'en chiefs agreed to comply with the CGL's injunction under the terms that RCMP would not interfere with traditional practices or trapping a lot of what you had just spoken to around these traditional practices and ways of keeping culture alive.
00:09:11.980Yet in late January, the Wet'suwet'en Nation stated that the CGL was intentionally destroying
00:09:18.860trap lines and tents and throwing them in shipping containers, then informing members that they had
00:09:24.56024 hours to collect their belongings before they were dumped. Additionally, the Wet'suwet'en Nation0.63
00:09:30.360also says the CGL does not have a proper archaeological impact assessment. So I'm
00:09:37.180wondering if you could shed some light on these developments. And if this is a sort of blatant
00:09:42.220disregard displayed during an interim injunction, what is it going to look like should full scale
00:09:48.940construction begin? That's a really good point as well. I mean, first off, this is an interim
00:09:55.120injunction. A full injunction hasn't been granted. And this is a company that has been illegally
00:10:04.940granted a license to the land and territory in this region. And when I say legal, it's very
00:10:10.860complex. And a lot of people are like, well, didn't chief sign agreements with CGL? And yeah,
00:10:19.480they did. But here's the issue. And I just want to name this first, is that there were
00:10:25.640representatives of the Wetsuotin, Office of the Wetsuotin, which is funded and governed under a
00:10:32.520system that has been imposed in the region by the colonial government of Canada. And so there's an
00:10:38.360elected chief and council system that has been imposed to all First Nations across what is now
00:10:43.800known as Canada. And these systems are not only sort of dictated, sort of top-down by colonial
00:10:51.380systems, but they're also funded. And so there's a vested interest in these communities and these
00:10:58.360systems of governance to comply with government policies, you know, injunctions, projects.
00:11:05.860But the reality is, is the way that the system works in Canada is that the government gets to
00:11:12.260grant licenses for leases, for exploration and for development of projects without consultation.
00:11:19.300So the first step of even just licensing for exploration is granted without consent with
00:11:24.600those nations. And then there's a complicating factor with the Wet'suwet'en, is that in 2015,
00:11:31.600like you said, they came together to say that they would protect these lands and territories
00:11:36.080from the expansion of pipelines and development in the region. And that's because there was a
00:11:40.680shift in the way that the Wet'suwet'en was governed at that time. At that time, in this sort of post
00:11:46.340truth and reconciliation era in the country, we saw the re-emergence and resurgence of hereditary
00:11:53.440chieftain recognition across the country particularly in places like British Columbia
00:11:58.480but not solely in British Columbia or what is now known as British Columbia and so what we had is
00:12:03.640that the Wet'suwet'en has now these people that are like we want to bring back our clan systems
00:12:08.760we want to bring back hereditary chiefs but they have this elected chief and council system that
00:12:13.600the government of Canada works with and they have a vested interest in working with them because
00:12:18.920they have them literally hook, line and sinker through a funding mechanism. Hereditary chief
00:12:24.420systems and the resurgence of clan houses do not have that same connection. They are not beholden
00:12:29.400to the administrative funding and dollars of the colonial government. And so when they make
00:12:34.480decisions, they're making those decisions based on the rule of the land and the rule of their
00:12:38.800people. And the government, in my opinion, probably takes a real big concern with that
00:12:44.460because they don't have those communities with their, the interests aren't with the colonial
00:12:49.320system. Their interests are with their lands and territories. Their interests are with the
00:12:53.540communities. And so in 2015, what we saw is not just this resurgence and reemergence, but in
00:12:58.860Wet'suwet'en, they created a board of directors that was comprised of the hereditary chiefs and
00:13:06.480clan house leaders of the Wet'suwet'en became the board of directors for the elected systems
00:13:11.920of the Wet'suwet'en. And it's super complicated, but we have to recognize that there's a duality
00:13:17.960that's happening here. And the government, Canadian government, constantly relies on that
00:13:23.420elected system to give those sanctions, including the agreement to remove the blockades so that they
00:13:29.820could come in. And that agreement that they came to in January was to really avoid violence. And
00:13:37.840I think there was a lot of people that were very concerned about violence. There were women,
00:13:41.620There were children. There were elders. There were people that did not want to experience violence, had never experienced such violence before. And they did what they thought was best. But the reality is, is that they need to ensure that the governance and the recognition of hereditary chief systems is included in our processes for determining what happens to our lands and territories.
00:14:04.660And that's actually upheld by a Canadian Supreme Court case called De Gaulle-Mouc, which affirmed sovereignty to lands and territories in the region in 1997.
00:14:17.500So we have a history that recognizes hereditary chief systems, recognizes governance over our lands and territories.
00:14:24.540But instead, what we're having is that the government is relying on antiquated systems that were imposed on indigenous communities during the first wave colonization to really support a system that supports the interest of the colonial government and systems of white supremacy and diminishes and devalues hereditary chief systems and traditional forms of governance.
00:14:48.960So when you see what's happening out there with these, you know, RCMP coming in and destroying, and not just the RCMP, but, you know, CGL and the RCMP coming in, destroying the blockades.
00:15:00.340At one point, the RCMP had taken over the Gidimtum checkpoint, and they were using their sort of house that they had built, their little cabin, to stay in as a checkpoint.0.91
00:15:12.480They were burning the firewood that had been chopped by Indigenous people to keep themselves warm after they had confiscated that checkpoint.
00:15:21.540You know, and then when they were done with it, they destroyed it.0.95
00:15:24.360And that is really a very clear depiction of how colonization is still happening to this day. They literally force us off our lands and territories, use our resources, take them, and then destroy what's left of our people and really destroy the remnants of what we had. And they'll be like, oh, you can have it back now.
00:15:48.420And I know this also all too well, because I come from the Alberta Tarsans, where we have seen the destruction and the diminishing and the contamination of our territory for 60 years in the region. And these governments are like, look, we'll put it back, we'll reclaim it once we're done, and you can have it back and it'll all be yours. But we've lost that time with it. We've lost our connections to it.
00:16:10.440they've destroyed it they've changed those those spaces that we develop such deep intimate
00:16:15.240relationships and connections with and I know those leaders that lived out at Una Stoughton
00:16:20.760for so long and they were changed by the land the land changes you when you have that relationship
00:16:27.160with it and I know you know that living out in the in the redwoods like the land changes you
00:16:32.440it changes how you relate to the world it changes how you relate to yourself and ultimately it
00:16:38.040changes how your value systems become less about you as an individual and more about you as a
00:16:45.360community in relation to the land and the ecosystems and the planet. And that's the most
00:16:52.460frustrating thing for me, is that we're not just relegating this land occupation, this settlement
00:17:00.660as a protest. But we are relegating and diminishing its importance in us addressing
00:17:07.420the largest crisis humanity has ever faced, which is the climate crisis. Right now, we need to be
00:17:14.300protecting these intact biodiverse regions. We need to be ensuring that our relationship is
00:17:19.860restored with the land in a real way so that we don't continue to build the pathways to our own
00:17:26.000demise. And instead, we're vilifying these communities, we are relegating these things to
00:17:32.700acts of protest against colonial systems, rather than upholding these peoples as the leaders for
00:17:39.700what we need to do in order to restore not just our relationship with each other, but restoring
00:17:44.220our relationship with the land. I really appreciate you going through the complexities of present day
00:17:52.480colonization because i think it's so important to realize that colonization isn't something that
00:18:00.540happened in the past it wasn't 500 years ago wasn't 300 years i mean it was then but it's
00:18:06.940also now and for people to not be aware of that or to not acknowledge that and to kind of just
00:18:14.520acknowledge colonization as something happened in a textbook you know with a painted picture of
00:18:19.940colonizers coming over in a boat it's like that's it's still happening today and and then just the
00:18:27.520complexities around the confusion between the hereditary and the elected leadership amongst
00:18:33.740first nations and it's so important to clarify that banned councils are elected every two years
00:18:39.460whereas hereditary chiefs are prepared for this role from a very young age and remain the title
00:18:45.180holders and authority over unceded lands. You know, while ban councils were introduced in 1876
00:18:51.580as a part of an assimilation policy, it's important to acknowledge that the Supreme Court
00:18:56.960of Canada recognized the hereditary system in 1997. You already kind of spoke to this, but
00:19:02.960if you could also maybe more in depth speak to how this confusion, or maybe how is this confusion
00:19:11.940a strategy used both by industry and colonial government to feign the appearance of consent
00:19:19.460when it comes to development and extraction? Does Canada's federal government rely upon the
00:19:25.440division between hereditary and elected leaders as a tool to aid in the ongoing project of
00:19:31.280re-territorialization? You know, I think that you hit the nail on the head when you're like,
00:19:37.860these band council systems were a tool in the attempted assimilation of Indigenous peoples.
00:19:44.700And, you know, there's this real importance of the resurgence and the re-emergence of
00:19:49.740hereditary leadership. But it's not just to this time in present history. You know,
00:19:56.520we have seen hereditary leaderships, clan house leaders come to the surface during the,
00:20:02.880during Ghanasatage and Ghanawage in 1990, which is commonly known as the Oka crisis,
00:20:08.020which is such a terrible name for it. It was Klan house leaders. It was the long house leaders0.94
00:20:14.720that stepped up and said, nope, we're not going to take this. We're going to stand in the way.
00:20:18.700And there was a division in the community even back then. So this isn't a new issue in the
00:20:23.260country. And in that time, it's the same thing. The government relied and went to continually
00:20:29.820over and over and over again to that elected system and they propped them up as the most
00:20:36.100rational because it is a system that they created it is a system that they have a vested interest in
00:20:42.400and not just a vested interest in but a vested financial relationship with and it's a really
00:20:50.040really broken structure that really diminishes and devalues the importance of these hereditary
00:20:57.140and um you know clan house systems that that are more and more coming to the surface in this post
00:21:04.420truth truth and reconciliation area era but the government doesn't want to recognize it again
00:21:09.480because of the fact that we're talking about communities that don't have a history of making
00:21:16.740impact benefit agreements and signing funding contribution agreements with the government
00:21:21.020These are leaders that are driven by and governed by their communities, that are governed by their relationships with the lands and the ecosystems. And that's a scary thing for the colonial government to really have to take on because they don't have that bargaining chip.
00:21:38.960They don't have that. We're going to stand here and we're going to offer you money for this, that and the other. These are leaders that have said unanimously, we don't care how much money you give us. We will never support these projects in our lands and territories.
00:21:54.560And when we're talking about colonial governments that are really driven on systems of wealth and capitalism and patriarchy and all of the systems, the isms that further serve to marginalize and oppress people of color and indigenous folks, you start to see why it's so important that we invite and welcome new forms of governance.
00:22:20.220and so for me one of the biggest things that I've been really thinking about and struggling when
00:22:25.240people are like well we we can't have like all these different systems and how are we going to
00:22:29.560know how to deal with this and how are we going to know how to talk to who do we talk to they
00:22:32.940act like it's this impossible never-ending thing that they'll never be able to figure out
00:22:38.160but I just I really really beg to differ on that one because I do think we need more diversity
00:22:44.820not just in the biodiverse regions of the world climate crisis has said you know within the unf
00:22:51.260triple c reports and the ipcc reports that we need to conserve and protect biodiversity we talk about
00:22:57.620biodiversity as being something critical to our survival not just human survival but all species
00:23:03.220survival but we only think of biodiversity in a sense of like plants flora and fauna but biodiversity
00:23:10.040also comes in the way that we act and move in the world pre-colonization of the americas i think
00:23:17.260about how many languages there were how many different clans there were how many different
00:23:23.720communities there were with their own sets of governance driven by their own lands and
00:23:29.100territories driven by their their own communities and how beautiful it would have been to be in a
00:23:36.220place with so much rich diversity not just in the land and the ecosystems but in the people
00:23:42.340we have to have biodiversity and colonization and colonial structures are trying to homogenize
00:23:49.440humanity you know we're trying to homogenize humanity under on a foundation of white supremacy
00:23:55.260and this assimilation is not just to to in you know in australia they actually try to breed
00:24:01.900out the black folks and in Canada they try to assimilate us through policies and they're trying
00:24:08.440to erase our indigenous heritage and erase the biodiversity of the peoples that we are across0.87
00:24:14.620this great continent and so for me I think about how important it is for us to think about
00:24:20.200and respect and realize and recognize the necessity of the different types of governance
00:24:26.340that come in this country and that there can't be one ultimate superpower there can't be one
00:24:31.800you know, Justin Trudeau making all of the decisions for all of the lands and resources
00:24:36.560in this country. We have to have those that are connected to place to help us determine what's
00:24:42.160going to be the best pathway forward, not just for the communities in that place, but for all
00:24:46.980communities that exist on Turtle Island, that exist on Mother Earth. Wow, Ariel, that was
00:24:54.400such a beautifully spoken I feel very resonant with it and I so deeply agree now I want to start
00:25:06.040talking about some things that are not more disturbing than what we've been discussing
00:25:12.460but disturbing in the intelligence gathering realms so I was reading that in 2014 and 2015
00:25:22.100the RCMP gathered intelligence on spying, basically on 313 First Nations activists.
00:25:31.420In fact, a leaked government operations center document identified Unistotenkamp as a quote
00:25:37.420ideological and physical focal point of aboriginal resistance to resource extraction projects end
00:25:44.400quote. Now additionally over the years RCMP has described Wet'suwet'en protectors as extremist
00:25:51.820So it's pretty clear to me that the police don't care about, quote, enforcing laws or assessing true risk to the public, but instead they're in the business of suppressing serious movements that have the capacity to be tremendously, extremely successful in disrupting the flow of commodity.
00:26:11.460So I'd really like if you could share more about the history between RCMP and the Wet'suwet'en Nation.
00:26:19.140And then what does this signal to you about the fate of future protest movements?
00:26:25.180I think that Indigenous folks in Canada and the United States have been labeled as extremists and activists for some time.
00:26:34.080You look at AIM, you look at OCA, and now you look at Unastoten and Wet'suwet'en, and you realize that any time Indigenous peoples rise up against colonial structures and try to reaffirm and assert their sovereignty, autonomy, and self-determination, which are all tenets of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, by the way,
00:27:00.640that they are are labeled as renegades as threats to the state because frankly we are threats to
00:27:09.920the state but we're not threats to the state in the way that they want to present us publicly
00:27:14.400we're threats to the state in having in their foothold of being the ultimate superpower in
00:27:21.600determining what's best for all people including us in that patriarchal colonial sense and we are
00:27:29.520a threat to that in that sense, but we're not a threat to, you know, the general public. And
00:27:34.600that's the misconception that needs to be broken. And neither was AIM, and neither was Oka. This is
00:27:41.240not a threat to the general public. These are people that are talking about trying to stop the0.92
00:27:46.520threat to Mother Earth, to their lands and territory, to the sanity of humanity in restoring
00:27:52.700those relationships with place. And, you know, colonization and systems of white supremacy0.55
00:27:59.020and capitalism and neoliberalism are predicated on systems that pull us away from our relationship
00:28:06.460to land. That's why decolonization in its simplest form is reconnecting to place. It's reconnecting
00:28:12.720to land. And so I think about how we've been completely criminalized for doing what is
00:28:19.500actually quite natural. And that is a symptom of the sickness that is so pervasive in systems
00:28:26.860of colonization. And again, we can go back further in the history of the colonization of the Americas
00:28:33.020to when we were labeled as renegades and rebels. You know, in Canada, we also have something called
00:28:39.120the Real Rebellion. And I don't know enough about American history, so I apologize. But
00:31:04.700You know, it's the demise of everything.
00:31:06.420And I think the bravery to stand up and put one's life on the line for the land, but really for the survival of all species, including humans, it's really, I have so much deep respect.
00:31:26.280And I just think back to what you were saying about, well, when the colonizers won, it's a victory. It's a battle. It's, you know, the narrative of what people are still very much taught. This isn't in the past that at some point in the past hundred years, people were taught the wrong history. No, this is still very alive and well.
00:31:46.840this false narrative that is written by the colonizers. And even, you know, I was traveling
00:31:53.040with Jade Begay this summer through Alaska and British Columbia talking to indigenous elders
00:32:00.800and fisher folk. And we were going to these, you know, a few, you know, small museums and just even
00:32:08.800reading the, I don't know what they're called, but those stands that kind of, you know, you walk
00:32:13.620around and you see a totem pole and then you see this written placard and even the placards in0.94
00:32:19.460british columbia in alaska are such bullshit i mean the history that's still being taught to0.98
00:32:26.340tourists so these tourists are coming up and reading this just complete lies just complete0.99
00:32:32.300and utter lies and i am i just think the threat that the government is trying to spin on indigenous
00:32:43.200folks or other activists that are trying to protect all life you know of course it's just
00:32:48.480a tactic that we need to see through and we also have to know that this surveilling of land and
00:32:55.660water protectors is of course it's just as rampant in the so-called united states for example i was
00:33:01.080reading that the police in minnesota have spent a year and a half preparing for a standoff over
00:33:05.860in bridge line three they're using security firms and private intelligence and the police have
00:33:12.240utilize informants, online monitoring, aerial surveillance, and eavesdropping to identify
00:33:17.920possible anti-pipeline camps and protectors. So I just want to speak even more about
00:33:24.240the strengthening of the relationship between the oil industry and local law enforcement,
00:33:30.520and how can we resist the coalescing of this national security apparatus and private interest?
00:33:36.960You know, under this this illusion of free market capitalism that we a lot of people were under the assumption that state and corporations were separate entities for a long time.
00:33:50.800And I think that the veil is really being lifted in this era of extreme crisis on on planet Earth.
00:34:01.160We're in this crisis of either continuing a pathway to the cliff's edge or literally putting up a blockade to stop the masses from going over the edge.0.54
00:34:14.420And it's Indigenous folks, it's our allies, it's those that have literally taken the blinders off and are seeing the world for what it is that are calling it out.
00:34:27.360And I'm not sure why we want to continue to perpetuate these systems of state and corporate interests. But I used to be a researcher for an organization called the Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations, now known as Federation of Sovereign Indian Nations in Saskatchewan.
00:34:45.940And I spent six and a half years as an archival researcher and an oral history researcher. So I supplemented oral history with archival research. And I spent a lot of time reading, you know, correspondence for the settlement and the development of the Dominion of Canada.
00:35:06.040And I can tell you that corporate interests and colonial government interests have always been together.
00:35:15.160During the settlement of Canada, they wanted to create what is the Canadian Northern Railway and the railway system across the country.
00:35:25.440And that company, you know, wrote and petitioned the Crown and the Indian agents to ensure that those pathways were left open and that Indigenous folks or Indians didn't receive land within those areas.
00:35:41.640And they actually requested a certain amount of distance be created from those development areas to ensure that they didn't deter other white settlers from settling in those regions.0.82
00:35:53.020And those requests were granted. And then you look a little bit further in history and you look at when the agricultural belt of Saskatchewan and Manitoba and Alberta was being created.0.80
00:36:04.380And you also see the same thing, you know, farmers not wanting Native people near where they were hoping to build crops and also pushing Native folks from selling their crops from their lands to the general market.0.60
00:36:17.780And again, these were small businesses, but you saw that the colonial governments always upheld those that were white, those that wanted to oppress and diminish the value of indigenous goods, services, communities, culture, languages, have always been pushed to the side and paved the way for corporate interests.
00:36:43.300You know, many of these small farms are now major agribusinesses that have that take up the agricultural belt in the provinces of Canada.
00:36:52.080And you continue to see these these corporate interests like these are the foundations.
00:36:55.980I mean, look at the very foundation of Canada, which was built on the fur trade.
00:37:00.560You know, Canada was declared large parts of what is now known as Canada was declared the property of the king of France with zero consultation.
00:37:10.600And he sold it to the Dominion of Canada without any consultation with the indigenous peoples here.
00:37:19.080And it was a corporate transaction to a corporation.
00:37:24.020So the foundations of this country are really embedded in corporate interests.
00:37:28.300And now in modern day, what we're seeing is that we thought under, you know, this idea of free market capitalism, the ability for the individual to grow.
00:37:37.660But it was only under the individuals of certain individuals, those with power, those with direct links and ties to those making decisions about the lands and governance under the colonial systems and laws.
00:37:49.040You know, whether that's presidents in the United States or governors or whether it's, you know, provincial leaders or prime ministers in Canada, we have always had corporations looking to those in power to grant them the rights to do things and push the most oppressed out of their way.
00:38:09.460We are still seeing that right now with, you know, the coastal gas link, with the Alberta tar sands, with the Bakken oil fields, with the multitude of pipelines that are coming out of Alberta tar sands, with mega hydro projects in eastern Canada, you know, Muskrat Falls, Sightseed Am, mega hydro in Manitoba.
00:38:31.100And the list goes on and on, you know, the bayou, the bayou pipelines and offshore drilling, Arctic drilling, so on and so forth.
00:38:38.960These corporations are constantly looking to the government and their agents, which in this case, the RCMP, to ensure the safe removal of those that stand in the way of their businesses.
00:38:54.620and that is the foundations of this country and it's still alive and true and we're just seeing
00:38:59.860it all coming out in their true colors are starting to to play out in the public discourse
00:39:04.840because of things like social media and independent media like this podcast and like so many other
00:39:10.800things you know democracy now has been a great purveyor of sharing the stories that are untold
00:39:16.460I really feel your passion and your, maybe this is forward of me to say, but your sacred rage in this discussion. And I feel like more of us need to feel this fire under us and not get so comfortable in our day-to-day lives because I really feel that mainstream media and so much that we're being force-fed by the system is to keep us complacent.
00:39:44.940And so when we hear voices like yours, they shock us out of this falsehood that many of us are kind of clouded in this conditioning can blind us from really feeling that energetic burst to do something about it.
00:40:05.540and I want to talk a little bit about infrastructure now because I know at the heart of so many global
00:40:13.900struggles for justice lies infrastructure and we've talked to people all over the world I was
00:40:18.500just thinking about our last interview around the Amazon and logging illegal logging mining there
00:40:25.500and this infrastructure which of course extractive industry is really solely dependent upon so I'd
00:40:33.000love if you could speak to our dependence on infrastructure and how it's really directly
00:40:38.560enabling the oppression of others and ultimately ourselves. When the state is prioritizing the
00:40:44.540protection and expansion of infrastructure over people, I'm wondering how can we remove ourselves
00:40:51.620from an infrastructure dependent economy? You know, I've been reading this really,
00:40:57.840really great book um called joyful militancy by nick montgomery and carla i think it's carla
00:41:06.360bergman but i might have that wrong i apologize called joyful militancy it's a really interesting
00:41:12.380book that really sort of talks about that like this that's a really really deep problem that we
00:41:17.780have as those that have this deep rage to want to rise up against the system is that we are
00:41:25.820still embedded in it you know we're still ultimately reliant on it um and how do we
00:41:32.160create something different and i've been really struggling with that for a really long time you
00:41:37.740know particularly when i was doing a lot of tar sands campaigning you know i was a tar sands
00:41:42.040campaigner for for 10 years working with my first nation and that was always the problem is how do
00:41:48.940we how do we stop a project you know the largest industrial project on planet earth that requires
00:41:56.280all the infrastructure like transmission lines water system like water rights like they you know
00:42:03.200albert tarzan's on some of the most water rights they they they're building the communications
00:42:08.340towers they're building the roadways they're building the bridges they're building the the
00:42:13.300transmission lines they're doing all of this stuff that then the public then relies on and then
00:42:18.560to you know make things worse a lot of these corporations are also bankrolling our social
00:42:25.280systems so they pay for the you know they donate heavily to educational institutions to sports and
00:42:34.220recreation institutions you know if you come to Fort McMurray and I'm sure it's the same if you
00:42:38.740go down to the Bakken I'm sure it's the same if you go down to the Gulf of Mexico that these
00:42:43.480corporations have sponsored the hospitals. They sponsor youth programs. They sponsor
00:42:50.100cultural revitalization programs in Northern Canada. They sponsor everything. And we become
00:42:57.640completely entangled and reliant on these systems. And so one of the biggest challenges I know that
00:43:04.440we faced in Alberta was how do we talk about ending the expansion and development of an industry
00:43:11.660that we rely on, not just for the infrastructure, but for jobs, for employment, for putting roofs
00:43:18.640over our heads and food on the table and clothes on our children's backs, is we have to envision
00:43:24.420something different. And it's not easy, but it's possible. And we have to build that. And I think
00:43:31.960for me, what I'm learning through this book, Joyful Militancy, is that it comes not from like
00:43:37.220actively necessarily, I'm not saying that you have to stop it, but it's the act alone of trying
00:43:43.180to smash colonization and end, you know, the pipeline and end these projects is alone in
00:43:50.760itself is not going to save us. What's going to save us is building community. It means sitting
00:43:57.780down with people and eating food with them and connecting with them and supporting them in ways
00:44:03.500that might seem really mundane you know helping someone care for their child helping someone to
00:44:10.940to learn how to knit or learn a skill or like learn simple things and building relationships
00:44:17.820that are not reliant on the empire not reliant on these systems and i that's you know let's go back
00:44:26.040full circle let's go back to una stouten that's what they were doing they were building a community
00:44:32.400that was not reliant on the infrastructure, that was not reliant on the contribution funding
00:44:39.140agreements from the federal government. It was not relying on the transmission lines
00:44:44.700of oil and gas companies. It was not reliant on those jobs. It was not reliant on anything
00:44:49.800but community. When they built their pit house, they built it with community. They built it with
00:44:55.620the trees on the land. They built it together. And then they sat and they ate so many meals
00:45:01.460together they sat around the fires together and they fostered a community that relied on each
00:45:07.360other rather than a structure that is so pervasive in pulling us apart and detaching that connection
00:45:15.220of community and so you know again I go back to this book is like that's what we need to do
00:45:20.420we need to be finding more spaces and carve out more places where we're fostering communities
00:45:26.720that are not reliant on empire, that are reliant on our community relations.
00:45:32.860I'm thinking about how the system sets us up to be disposable to each other. And what you're
00:45:41.560talking is reminding me that it's really the opposite of that. When we're building community,
00:45:47.000we do rely on one another for taking care of each other, for taking care of our families.
00:45:53.360But when we're in this capitalist colonial system, we can just, you know, extract resources, make money to buy our way out of having community, of being actually reliable to one another, to being accountable to one another.
00:46:09.540And to create community that is opposing this type of lies of rugged individualism, that in itself is subversive in such a beautiful way and I think really so much at the core of how we can move forward.
00:46:28.300And like you were saying, you know, imagining a way out and removing ourselves from this, whether it's the infrastructure dependent economy, this capitalist resource extractive dependent economy.
00:46:40.360And of course, we know that when we talk about resource extraction, it's not just oil or some type of fossil fuel on the ground. Resources are also humans. It's also our relationships with one another is how this system even looks at those as resources to be squandered.
00:46:58.860so yeah I really I think that's really I think that's really important too is that again when
00:47:08.120I talked about pre-colonization in the Americas like we had this biodiversity of communities that
00:47:16.040were all very unique in their languages their cultures their relationship with the lands the
00:47:21.160foods that they ate but there was huge um routes of of trade there were huge um you know trade lines
00:47:30.080and you know systems that were economies economy based systems where there were routes of trade
00:47:35.840but communities relied on each other you know they relied on coming together at certain times
00:47:40.420of the year and trading their goods and and sharing their stories and sharing their teachings
00:47:46.300and sharing the things they'd learned on the land and those were essential and it required
00:47:52.400face-to-face community time sitting together eating together being together and it's that
00:47:59.460those same systems that we're talking about that are being vilified where canada's biggest
00:48:05.180threat in the country is the indigenous resistance is is one of the largest threats to the canadian
00:48:11.060government. And, and like, that's the reality is, is that it questions and it challenges those
00:48:17.560systems as not being in the best interests of people. And so we're talking about trying to
00:48:24.840create structures that are not predicated on individualism that are not predicated on the
00:48:29.720accumulation of, of wealth and success and notoriety and the American dream. But we're
00:48:36.060talking about systems that require you to admit that you are vulnerable, to admit that you are
00:48:42.520a small, humble creature on this planet that requires other people to survive. And instead,
00:48:50.380the American dream, North American dream is really on like, how successful can you be as an
00:48:57.740individual? What have you done with your life? Instead of what are you doing with community?
00:49:03.220how are you working together how are you supporting your neighbor because back in the
00:49:08.560time in the day like you were nothing unless you had community you were nothing unless you had
00:49:13.980those people that supported you and you supported them back in a reciprocal relationship and we have
00:49:20.940lost this this ideology of um reciprocation not just with each other but within the natural world
00:49:28.200And, you know, that was one of the things in the write up of the RCMP is that the ideological foundations of the Una Stoughton camp are, you know, are threats to the Canadian public. And it's a threat, not to the Canadian public, but it's a threat to the systems that have been driven down our throats for the last 500 years here.
00:49:47.400I was reading that in January, the police blocked access to one of the roads outside of Houston, B.C., and officers proceeded to tell journalists that they were not allowed to enter the site of the raids due to, quote, safety concerns.
00:50:02.400concerns. However, the broadcasting network Aboriginal People's Television Network noticed
00:50:08.820that company workers had no problem entering and did not face threats of obstruction,
00:50:13.960no surprise. But I really would like for you to speak and share about the violation of press
00:50:20.980freedoms that took place and the dangers that this precedent sets. You know, I think, again,
00:50:29.240it's part of that colonial narrative that they want to tell like they get to be these are a
00:50:36.120threat to the Canadian public they get to control the narrative through the you know their media
00:50:42.280machines through their storytelling and it it's like that you know let's look let's talk about
00:50:48.800the way history is written history is written through the lens of a colonial the colonial white
00:50:53.640man and when journalists are going in and they they wanted to see the story from from all
00:50:58.760perspectives and from all sides of the the narrative that is the threat to the colonial
00:51:03.600structure as well and so you know they have a vested interest again just like they do and
00:51:07.400trying to vilify indigenous folks is that a press is going to come in and they're going to tell the
00:51:12.740wrong story and they lose control and a lot of this is all about like power and control and
00:51:18.020And there's an important role in the press and the media having unfettered access to tell stories from like an unbiased perspective so that the truth can be actually told.
00:51:31.380And so we need press to be able to go into those spaces to see them, particularly in places like the Wet'suwet'en and the Unastauten territories, because those are areas that have no cellular service.
00:51:43.200Again, they lack the infrastructure that we're so reliant on.
00:51:48.020And so when you have independent and regular media, they need to go in.
00:51:52.080Because if we don't have those people that are coming in with an unbiased perspective telling that story, then the story that's going to get told is going to be really polarized.
00:52:03.740It's going to come from one person saying one thing, another person saying one thing, and then it's like, well, who's telling the truth?
00:52:11.580And when you look at how the colonial government has already laid the foundations to vilify Unistotin, to vilify Wet'suwet'en, their story comes out as, well, they have a history of being this and that and the other, whereas we have this dominant narrative that the RCMP are heroes.
00:52:29.400They're here to protect us. They're here to ensure the safety of all people, when the reality is that in the case of the Gedimpton blockade, the Unastoten camps, that they came in there with violent force.
00:52:43.220They pushed their way into territories where they were told they were not welcome, where they were told they did not have jurisdiction, and they forced their way in.
00:52:51.000The reality is, is that they're enforcing jurisdiction on our lands and territories to uphold the rights of corporations over the rights of Indigenous communities.0.97
00:53:03.380And I just don't understand how they continue to be the hero while Indigenous communities continue to be the villain.0.57
00:53:10.620And it's so important that independent media, that media gets in to start telling the real story so that we can start to unravel the real history of what colonization has done to indigenous peoples and what colonization has done to our understanding of who are the villains and who are the heroes in our stories.0.99
00:53:28.380I guess my last question is around, you know, the kind of question of what can we do type of question. But I also want to really speak to the truth around that because I know at one time, even around a month ago, people were like, oh, we're going to go to Udenstoten camp, whether it was non-native people, people, you know, ally activists, people that were hearing it up in the news.
00:53:53.960And I know a lot of times it's not the best thing to just get in a car and drive up to the camp or, you know, of course, we need to really be intentional and listen around how outsiders can support movements and specifically the Unastoten camp right now.
00:54:11.900So maybe just kind of give us a sense of where they're at at this moment and what is the best way to support for those of us who are not on the front lines, but rather on the sidelines looking in, wanting to support, but really being able to take a step back and listen to what is actually helpful and not things that are just going to get in the way and create more complexity and more struggle for those that are on the front lines.
00:54:40.580Yeah, I think it's really important that we listen to the communities themselves and take as much direction as possible from them. You know, they have a really great website. It's unastoten.camp. I encourage people to go check it out. They update it quite regularly. There is a supporter toolkit that they've created for people.
00:54:59.660But what's happening is that this is long from over. The Coastal Gas Link or CGL in TransCanada, this project is still on the books and the Wet'suwet'en office and the people of the Wet'suwet'en are going to challenge this project.
00:55:18.360That is, they've made that very clear over and over again, and they're going to do whatever they can in their power to ensure that it is not completed.
00:55:26.680And they want to do it in a respectful way.
00:55:28.820They want to avoid violence, obviously.
00:55:31.840That's why they signed the agreement to pull down the blockades.
00:55:35.760But at the same time, they need respect of their lands and territory.
00:55:38.940I mean, we're already seeing the destruction of an essential trap line in the region.
00:55:43.820We've seen the destruction of the Gidimtim settlement.
00:55:48.360There are threats to the Una Stoughton settlement.
00:55:51.620You know, people on the ground is always appreciated, but they want people that understand and know the territory.
00:55:57.360They don't want strangers that have not been a part of the struggle for a long time.
00:56:03.460Like if you are planning on going there, you have to have, and it's for security purposes, is you have to have some sort of connection to the community.
00:56:11.600but you know they keeping that the land and the settlement up and going is an important part of
00:56:18.000this is that assertion of the utilization of this land in a traditional sense things that folks can
00:56:24.820do is check out the website they have this supporter toolkit they're still calling on
00:56:29.400people to continue to host actions whether those are protests or screenings of films or panels and
00:56:35.220discussions on this, you know, sending letters to emails directly to the government or calling,
00:56:43.200you know, Canadian and British Columbia representatives to show your support and
00:56:48.880respect of the Wet'suwet'en peoples. And of course, you know, this is not easy. The fight
00:56:54.800is far from over. And they really want to take this to the court systems. They want to revitalize
00:57:01.280the de Gaulle-Much court case and really bring it to the forefront around recognition of hereditary
00:57:07.020chief systems. That stuff's not free. You know, we're all bound to those systems of economies
00:57:11.940and capitalism. And, you know, sometimes you have to utilize those systems to fight them. And I
00:57:16.960really, really think that folks need to continue to donate to the Legal Defense Fund because that's
00:57:21.460going to be a long drawn out battle. Donate to the access point to ensure that we can continue
00:57:27.120to occupy those lands and territories sign a pledge it's simple as that like if you and also
00:57:32.380I want to recognize that not everyone can go out there not everyone can donate not everyone can
00:57:37.600host an event because of all sorts of limitations and I don't want people to feel as though they're
00:57:43.020not contributing to this cause you know you can just sign a pledge you can educate your friends
00:57:48.880your neighbors by sharing information that is all available on the Unastoten camp and really just
00:57:55.940trying to learn your best to understand the complexity of all of this and really doing
00:58:01.920your homework. I really encourage those that want to be a part of this to not just jump on the
00:58:06.620bandwagon and say Wet'suwet'en strong, support Unistot'en, but take the time to understand the
00:58:13.400deep history of why this is what it is. Understanding the court cases and the nuances
00:58:20.460of hereditary chief systems versus elected chief systems, understanding the jurisdictional issues
00:58:26.480in the region. There's a lot of complexity. And if you're going to get involved and you want to
00:58:31.540start really getting involved, start understanding the real history of these people, of these
00:58:36.140countries, and take it one step further. Learn the history of your own region and your own territory
00:58:40.900and the histories of those people there. Because this isn't just a single story. This is just a
00:58:46.560magnifying glass on a story that exists everywhere across turtle island and across the americas and0.96
00:58:53.120you can learn more about our work which supports these people like folks like white sueton tiny
00:58:58.480house warriors you know all the indigenous communities that are really stepping up to be
00:59:03.060leaders in protecting lands and territory for the climate and for everyone um and of course just
00:59:08.880check us out indigenousclimateaction.com we're across the country and please do if you're going
00:59:14.160to get involved in this check out unistoten.camp so that's u-n-i-s-t-o-n-t-e-n.camp
00:59:21.660and take take a moment to really learn about what's going on there
00:59:44.160Thank you for listening to For the Wild podcast.