For The Wild - November 08, 2018


Reverand M. KALANI SOUZA on Personal Preparedness in Advance ⧸96

Topics
QUEEN QUET on the Survival of Sea Island Wisdom ⧸95 Dr. CHAD HANSON on the Myths & Misinformation of Wildland Fires ⧸97

Episode Stats


Length

58 minutes

Words per minute

124.76

Word count

7,357

Sentence count

225

Harmful content

Misogyny

1

sentences flagged

Toxicity

3

sentences flagged

Hate speech

1

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
00:00:00.000 We can change the way humans behave, and that will have the largest impact on the climate
00:00:28.200 indicators we now see but to do that we have to address human behavior and addressing human
00:00:37.540 behavior in a government setting where what we do is we say no religion no spirituality no
00:00:47.200 emotional human element and oh yes the one other thing the u.s government will not pay for
00:00:53.080 food. So I think it's interesting that the government will neither support the sharing of
00:00:58.360 food nor the sharing of philosophical or spiritual ideology when it's trying to build a solution
00:01:05.900 because those two things are critical for the sustaining of the solution.
00:01:23.080 Hello and welcome to For the Wild podcast. I'm Ayanna Young. Today we are speaking with
00:01:30.680 Reverend Kalani Souza. Reverend Kalani is a Hawaiian practitioner and cross-cultural
00:01:36.000 facilitator, currently working as community outreach specialist for the University of
00:01:40.800 Hawaii's National Disaster Preparedness Training Center. He is a certified FEMA instructor and
00:01:47.680 serves on the Indigenous Knowledge, HUI, of the Pacific Risk Management Ohana, Primo, working to
00:01:54.220 mitigate and respond to natural disasters. He also serves as a cultural competency consultant for
00:01:59.980 NOAA Pacific Services Center and works for the Indigenous Peoples Climate Change Working Group
00:02:04.800 and Rising Voices Indigenous Peoples and Practices in Climate Science and Adaptation
00:02:10.000 with NCAR, National Climate Atmospheric Research Center. Kalani is the founding director of the
00:02:17.280 Oloana Foundation, a non-profit 501c3 focused on community capacity and global response to
00:02:24.200 climate adaptation. Kalani is a gifted storyteller, singer, songwriter, musician,
00:02:29.800 performer, poet, philosopher, priest, political satirist, and peacemaker.
00:02:37.120 For this theme month on the podcast, we're looking at natural disasters and hoping to have
00:02:42.720 open conversations about what we are collectively facing and how we can respond in a way that
00:02:48.340 sustains, transforms, and supports communities.
00:02:52.080 We want to encourage communities both to come together as we respond to climate change,
00:02:56.460 as well as to stop relying on government bodies or top-down change.
00:03:01.560 The Olohana Foundation, which you are the founding director of Kalani, focuses on
00:03:06.840 quote, building community capacity, cohesiveness, resilience, and emergency preparedness around food,
00:03:13.800 energy, water, and knowledge systems, end quote. So I'd really like to begin this conversation
00:03:19.080 by asking you to share why you thought creating an organization like Alohanna was so important,
00:03:25.940 and how do you see disaster preparedness and community capacity building as being two pieces
00:03:32.400 that belong to the same puzzle? Wow, thanks for the question. Nice one, too. I get a lot of
00:03:38.980 questions, so I want to comment on them when they're good questions and thoughtfully formed,
00:03:44.520 so thanks. Here's a caveat. Here at the outset, I want to apologize, particularly to our
00:03:55.700 international or native or tribal or indigenous partners in humanity. It's an unfortunate but
00:04:04.900 true circumstance that most discussions of this nature, or for that matter, most discussions around
00:04:13.860 access and capacity tend to be designed for primarily American audiences, generally for the
00:04:24.360 audience of the culture of modernity, you know, that reflects the Western European world. But
00:04:31.200 I want to acknowledge right here at the beginning of this conversation, there's a lot of other
00:04:35.640 people in the world and a lot more going on than I think we get informed about in our standard K
00:04:43.460 through 12 education here in the world of modernity. That being said, I think that's the
00:04:52.880 reason we created the organization. Olohana, which appears to be a Hawaiian name or Hawaiian
00:05:01.260 word, was the name of a chief, was the name of John Young, an Englishman who joined Kamehameha's
00:05:08.500 court and was principal in establishing the Hawaiian kingdom. And the name itself is just
00:05:17.640 a derivative of what we thought he was shouting his name out to be which was all hands on deck
00:05:26.720 and he was shouting all hands because he was the boatswain of the deck which is the weapons master
00:05:33.520 or the master sergeant as it were so from the Hawaiian or indigenous perspective from the
00:05:41.720 native peoples. We thought he was the religious leader since he was walking out ahead of everyone
00:05:47.880 else and proclaiming something. And then we saw action by everyone else in the group. So
00:05:54.120 our assumption was he was the leader. And it turns out the master sergeant is in fact the leader of
00:06:00.960 that working group of people on the deck of the ship. So we named our non-profit Oluwana
00:06:09.460 in tribute to the idea that all hands, all hands are needed to solve these global problems facing
00:06:19.900 the world. And by that, I mean our adaptation to the impending climate change and how that will
00:06:26.840 impact food systems globally. Large food supplies impacted by large trends in water resource,
00:06:38.440 whether it's in the atmosphere or translated into soil moisture based on these giant sweeps across the planetary atmospheric indicators
00:06:51.140 and the hydrology indicators on the surface of the planet we've been monitoring with the National Center for Atmospheric Research.
00:07:01.540 so it led me to believe that we not only need to look at this from a 400,000
00:07:08.980 foot perspective up high in the stratosphere but we need to be able to
00:07:14.560 take action directly on the ground you know and I'm talking a quarter of an
00:07:20.200 inch under the soil everything from the cilia all the way up to the the
00:07:26.980 troposphere in order to understand the water bubble that we all live in and
00:07:33.580 that led us to creating this community organization to ground truth or work
00:07:40.580 directly with indigenous local and tribal communities on the ground to
00:07:47.320 verify what we're either experiencing as food producers in community or as the
00:07:55.380 science community as we're observing these larger models and greater trends
00:08:00.460 i'm sorry i talk too much i know julie says no no no not at all i'm just taking it all in because
00:08:11.060 this topic is it's about survival and surviving in a way that we that we can also have mental
00:08:24.100 stability. And I just, I'm taking it all in and preparing for this interview. I came across the
00:08:31.160 three fundamental questions that seem to lay the groundwork for the Alohanna Foundation. And the
00:08:36.780 questions being, quote, are the children fed? Are the elders comfortable? Do women feel safe? End
00:08:43.540 quote. And these three questions are so simple that one would think that a country that boasts
00:08:50.620 about being the first in everything or the most developed or abundant with opportunity
00:08:55.420 would have no problem answering yes to each of these questions.
00:08:59.520 But the reality is we can't argue that any of these needs are being met.
00:09:04.980 So I'd like to open this up to you to share in your own words why these three questions
00:09:10.880 are at the center of the work you do and how and why you think we've strayed so far from
00:09:17.140 these values.
00:09:18.580 Thank you so much.
00:09:20.080 I mean, it's really interesting. I was having a conversation with some other elders here just yesterday about this topic, about values, and how the fix may not be where it is we are looking presently.
00:09:38.580 And from the indigenous world and the native tribal world that I've experienced over the last few decades, I can say there is a concerted dialogue around the need for our dominant narrative to review the values that exist at the core,
00:10:04.760 at its driving fundamental center to re-inspect what those value sets are and what it is that
00:10:16.500 they are targeted at, what it is that that dominant narrative hopes to achieve by its
00:10:25.420 practice. And I apologize for being diplomatic about the conversation, but I think at this
00:10:35.580 juncture, we should be cautious with our language. We should try to have the conversation in a way
00:10:43.460 that invites everyone to the table. I believe that we may be facing the sixth great extinction
00:10:53.720 an event on the planet, and it could include the Homo sapiens. And to that effect, I think you're
00:11:01.560 right that we need to talk about the changes needed in our society, in our family groupings,
00:11:10.860 in our institutions, and certainly the change that needs to happen at an individual or
00:11:19.460 transpersonal level. At some point, the idea of participating in the water bubble in a responsible
00:11:29.600 way, responsible to the environment and our surround, responsible to society and the people
00:11:38.260 that partner in survivability with us, responsible to our family members, and certainly responsible
00:11:46.380 to ourselves around our behavior and the way we engage with all others in this water bubble.
00:11:56.340 This, in fact, at some point is a transpersonal decision. Whether we decide to be a predator
00:12:05.680 or a participant in life is a decision that is wholly personal and generally revealed to the
00:12:16.300 self just moments before our last breath. I would like for us to consider these important concerns
00:12:26.380 that literally make up the story of our personal lives perhaps a little earlier. Maybe between
00:12:34.640 7 and 14 and in an initiatory setting controlled by community that helps one move from child to
00:12:43.700 adult in a responsible way. I don't know if the education system as it exists now has undermined
00:12:51.140 our community capacity to develop relevant and needed participatory citizenship in social
00:13:01.000 ordering. But I noticed a lot of charter schools and home schools lately designed to teach
00:13:09.840 from a myriad, diverse background of social beliefs and religious structures.
00:13:17.620 I want to celebrate all the crayons in the box, but I want to remind the varying
00:13:22.760 crayons and the diverse palette of colors that it's really not about the crayons. It should be
00:13:29.440 about the picture we're all painting together did that make sense yeah i'm well something that i was
00:13:38.060 thinking about that really made sense was being diplomatic and really choosing our language and
00:13:44.040 inviting everybody to the table i don't think that we need any more divisiveness at this point
00:13:49.740 not to say i think that we should be justifying actions that are that are detrimental and and
00:13:58.700 painful, but I also think that there needs to be a way in which we can communicate with one
00:14:04.560 another. And the other thing that you were mentioning about responsibility, I see a really
00:14:09.860 interesting dichotomy that's happening right now. There's this piece of people feeling like
00:14:15.940 somehow their actions don't count or, you know, it doesn't really matter if they vote. It doesn't
00:14:23.400 really matter if they recycle it doesn't really matter if they use plastic or treat you know it's
00:14:29.400 kind of like well the world's kind of going down anyways or i don't really have power people feel
00:14:36.160 like they don't have power right now and and then i agree and then i and i feel like then what
00:14:41.740 happens is people don't feel like they have power so they don't take responsibility but then they go
00:14:45.880 well it's the corporations that are doing this it's the corporations that use all the water it's
00:14:50.240 the corporations that use all the pollutions, so on and so forth, but we're not realizing that
00:14:55.520 we are responsible because the corporations are extracting because we are purchasing the items
00:15:02.520 that are in the use of extraction. So I think this topic of responsibility of our individual power
00:15:11.000 and what you were saying about responsibility to ourselves, to our community, to our family,
00:15:17.060 to our earth, that really strikes a chord with me.
00:15:20.300 And I really appreciate you bringing that up because I think we need to get out of the
00:15:25.160 mentality that somehow our actions, no matter how small we think they are, actually add
00:15:32.220 to either the collective harm or the collective healing.
00:15:36.040 Exactly.
00:15:37.000 I mean, it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
00:15:40.140 You know, George Mason University in Yale in 2017, between May 18th and June 6th, they did a study with a large group of Americans, more than half of which, 58%, believe that climate change is human-caused, that we're an agency, the major agency in it.
00:16:03.400 Four in ten Americans, according to this study, think the odds that global warming will cause
00:16:10.860 humans to become extinct is 50% or higher.
00:16:15.420 One in four Americans say providing a better life for children or their grandchildren is
00:16:21.160 the most important reason for reducing global warming.
00:16:25.780 Now, all this documentation about how well-informed Americans are about the global situation,
00:16:34.360 yet the American government is pretending there's no such thing as climate change.
00:16:38.260 I think that's symptomatic of the greater problem, which is, and I mean this in the
00:16:47.280 best possible sense, a lack of leadership, which is leading to the apathy in the social
00:16:53.780 group that you're, I think, commenting on. You know, they see no real leadership. They see
00:17:01.040 those that are the haves ignoring the problem. They feel disenfranchised, ostracized from
00:17:10.280 either the resources or the political access that they need to make a change. And so they find
00:17:18.160 themselves retreating into a corner of despair. Now, this framework of modernity, it's intentionally
00:17:28.940 put forward by those that are extracting and profiting greatly. You know, I got to remind us
00:17:37.380 and remind myself that while the 97% of us argue for 90, for 5% of the, you know, resources on the
00:17:47.560 planet, that other 3% is fighting one another for the 95% of the resources on the planet.
00:17:55.920 And it's amazing that as a group of people, we won't address this larger problem. And that's
00:18:05.780 quite possibly, again, a transformative personal moment. Is it in fact about personal integrity
00:18:14.820 and respect and regard and then we start thinking on a larger global scale about stories like the
00:18:24.380 doctrine of discovery the papal bulls and how they construct the framework around land courts
00:18:31.880 and land ownership and the admiralty courts and that all plays into our legal findings today and
00:18:38.440 And so we find ourselves adhering to a man-made law that seems to be weighted, weighted to support one particular slice of our society at the expense of the other 97%.
00:18:55.800 So this is all very interesting from a behavioral perspective, but the truth is, when that extreme event happens, when the great balancing effect happens, whether it's a large natural disaster or a catastrophic global economic collapse,
00:19:18.780 When it happens, those systems, irregardless, and I can use that because it's in a comical sense, irregardless of anything we do or say will collapse and will not support the mechanisms that drive our society today.
00:19:39.540 And so one has to be ready in that liminal space, in that moment of change, to respond.
00:19:49.880 And that's where we began looking at this in a different way.
00:19:54.040 At that moment, each human being is going to have to decide whether they are a victim or not a victim, whether you're a victim or a responder.
00:20:05.000 This is what happens to us right in that moment of the event.
00:20:09.540 And so we thought at our foundation, working with Peaceboat, working with other community
00:20:16.920 organizations and particularly children's groups in education settings, we would need
00:20:23.860 to develop a new language, a new way to talk about this that enables people to internalize
00:20:31.920 their own decision and their own capacity building.
00:20:36.280 prepare themselves for that personal moment of change.
00:21:06.280 We are climbing, Jacob, as a soldier in the long army of the earth.
00:21:23.160 Tell me, do you think I'd make a good soldier?
00:21:29.880 that's really so deep to think about this languaging and this understanding of being
00:21:40.880 a victim or a responder and how we're going to show up in these very challenging and frightening
00:21:49.920 moments and you know i have a lot of thoughts one one of the many thoughts leads me to violence and
00:21:58.220 I know, gosh, violence has just permeated so many facets of our society for so long,
00:22:04.460 like you had mentioned the doctrine of discovery. But under the idea that climate crisis may
00:22:09.800 very well lead governments to abandon their citizens and cause illusory systems to collapse,
00:22:16.440 I imagine that society will again take their frustrations out publicly. And I wonder how
00:22:22.740 people are going to hold themselves in this world. It seems to me that an important conversation to
00:22:28.620 have is one where we can begin asking each other, how can we be proactive in the face of a future
00:22:36.100 that could very well possess? If you think about it deeper, if we go in deeper, how can we be so
00:22:46.560 aware and involved and yet we see so much apathy right why there's so little progress regarding the
00:22:54.000 communities and one reason might be that human beings are apathetic that we're given to ignoring
00:23:02.700 life-threatening conditions until the 11th hour you know we won't even run out of the house until
00:23:08.760 the buildings actually collapsing around us. But conversely, one reason might be we see more profit
00:23:21.940 and more control with a slow crawl to capacity. So in other words, there's a multi-million dollar
00:23:31.240 industry geared towards response, towards training for disaster? Who is ensuring the
00:23:39.060 reliability of the supply lines? And by what companies and who provides it? Is it about
00:23:45.400 maximizing potential profit? Who's providing, you know what I mean, for the service? And who's
00:23:51.900 awarded the contract? Who's funding the equipment and the supplies towards disaster preparedness?
00:23:58.560 who's making the money from potential victimhood profits are made when communities are not ready
00:24:07.680 so when will we as communities actually become ready that's a tough one to say what i can say
00:24:15.880 is what my grandfather told me quite some time ago he said preparedness is best done in advance
00:24:25.860 and that's not something we do i know that that sounds crazy but in fact as a society
00:24:35.180 as people that's not what we do you know what we do instead is we get ready for whatever just
00:24:44.680 happened does that make sense to you it's like when we talk about mitigation or preparedness
00:24:51.860 we always prepare for whatever disaster just occurred you know i mean we almost never are
00:25:00.720 preparing because and here's the kicker whatever just happened there's an incredible set of
00:25:09.840 circumstantial odds that pretty much preclude that it would ever happen that way again
00:25:16.180 but that's what we prepare for you know i mean as soon as the hurricane or whatever we measure
00:25:23.560 how fast those winds come well where did the water get to all right then let's let's do something to
00:25:30.540 respond to that but it'll never happen like that again we have evidence for 37 years
00:25:38.840 with national weather service showing them that it never happens the same way twice
00:25:44.760 and yet we still as policy prepared for whatever just went by
00:25:52.900 we literally spend hundreds of millions of dollars we won't spend a couple million ahead
00:26:03.100 of time preparing anybody but we will spend hundreds of millions afterwards and it's a
00:26:11.220 lesson we learned in 1870 it was called reconstruction after the civil war we realized
00:26:18.460 wow there's a lot of money to be made when you got to rebuild the buildings interesting right
00:26:24.560 it's so interesting and i think about what happened in cordova in the prince william sound
00:26:33.640 in Alaska when the XN Valdez oil spill happened. When the oil spilled, it was kind of staying in
00:26:42.660 place for a little bit because the winds hadn't picked up and they were waiting 48 hours for any
00:26:49.160 response from the companies who so-called were in charge. They didn't have the materials. They
00:26:54.800 literally did not have the tools and supplies. Much of the supplies were under snow. Some of it
00:26:59.880 was out some of it hadn't even been purchased yet so there was really no preparedness and then
00:27:04.660 the fisher folk had to go out with buckets to try to get as much oil as they could out of the water
00:27:09.620 of course they weren't able to succeed because there wasn't the preparedness and i bet you that
00:27:15.780 if there was community preparedness among the fisher folk if there's something going you know
00:27:21.140 these companies aren't actually going to take care of this maybe there's other companies that
00:27:26.320 are going to come in and profit like you were talking about which happens all the time this
00:27:29.560 disaster capitalism but if the fisher folk knew that they actually had to prepare themselves for
00:27:35.480 a disaster like this i wonder how different that would look and it's really it isn't it's kind of
00:27:41.800 a form of insanity that somehow we believe or are so entitled to believe that somehow somebody else
00:27:49.640 is going to take care of it and we aren't really responsible we don't have to be the ones that are
00:27:53.920 preparing and then of course that after these disasters happen like I think about the fires
00:28:00.620 in California last year whole towns burned down Walmarts and Targets and you know you can imagine
00:28:07.500 everything burning up on the shelves and then what happens is so many times these disasters come and
00:28:13.920 then people rebuild the same ways in the same places without thinking it's going to happen
00:28:19.320 again and we really have to be looking at the fact that these natural disasters aren't going
00:28:26.880 anywhere and we cannot keep rebuilding in the same ways thinking that somehow we're not going
00:28:33.820 to be affected the next year or the next year or the next year or the next year it's it is this
00:28:37.960 kind of yeah insanity uh thought process but it's our language right thought process insanity
00:28:45.520 thought process our language the way we define the way for example see we were just talking about
00:28:52.820 natural disasters but they're not disasters these are actually natural processes and then
00:29:01.720 it's only a disaster or a hazard because people with their stuff are standing in the way
00:29:10.040 so it's sort of like 10 years ago the wildfire came through here but there was no walmart
00:29:16.940 right but now we built a walmart and there's an intersection over here so now when the
00:29:21.780 wildfire comes through the walmart is destroyed but it's like wow it's a disaster now only because
00:29:29.700 we put the walmart there so these natural processes they fluctuate like all other events
00:29:38.560 in life, they're on an arc, a curb, a natural arcing cycle of positive and negative influence.
00:29:46.960 So some years they will be greater, some years they will be less. But overall climate change
00:29:54.760 suggests that the less is getting lesser and the more is getting more, if you know what I mean.
00:30:03.040 So we're going to see greater, hotter, longer duration and higher impact events and less throttling down to smaller events now in the cycle because where we are as climate is impacted by our actions and activities.
00:30:22.120 that being said we really do need to prepare our communities and we need to do it in a way
00:30:29.300 that makes us not victims but responders you know i mean so that we don't feel like
00:30:36.380 we're dangling at the end of a leash waiting to be supplied something by some emergency service
00:30:43.960 contractor but rather that we're definitely in control of our situation and able to provide
00:30:51.580 for ourselves and that's a whole shift in consciousness yeah it is absolutely as a whole
00:31:00.080 shift in consciousness honestly i've i'm shifting right now and just hearing you say natural
00:31:05.420 disasters versus natural processes and how just in that language shift there's a different
00:31:12.300 relationship to the event itself and absolutely i was i was writing a thought about the doctrine
00:31:19.880 of relationship is this in fact a response to the doctrine of discovery like for example
00:31:28.260 if we rather than vilify the doctrine of discovery if we take it instead and place it in the medicine
00:31:36.300 wheel or something we might see more holistically than giving it that bifurcated zero-sum look
00:31:46.260 that modernity or the culture of Europe always tends to do, right? They always tend to
00:31:52.800 have a culture of debate. They put things into two columns, pro and con, and then they simply
00:32:01.640 do this ping pong match back and forth, decide which one has more on the list, so the weight
00:32:08.480 of their evidence, and then they choose the lesser of two evils. But I think in the indigenous world, 0.96
00:32:16.260 We tend to place things in a circle, in a medicine wheel, and it's cyclical, and it's seasonal, and it moves through a living expression.
00:32:26.400 So in that look, I'm thinking the doctrine of discovery, maybe this is just the north or the element of air or ancestry, and it's relegated to our past.
00:32:41.420 And at one time might have held validity, but we can see now through our growth that it was erroneous, that it needs to be brought into harmony.
00:32:53.740 and maybe opposite the north in the south was the doctrine of recognition of protocol
00:33:00.240 whereas if Christopher Columbus had recognized that the Taino or the Arawaks were also people
00:33:08.860 with families and civilizations and rules he might have shaken hands rather than chopped
00:33:15.580 hands off looking for gold so there's that and maybe in the east is the doctrine of creation
00:33:23.280 the feminine the verdant the thing that supports life and and maybe in the west is the doctrine of
00:33:31.720 separation of destruction the way of the masculine which of course leads to resurrection and the
00:33:39.080 re-beginning but might i suggest that the doctrine of separation is something we as a society do
00:33:46.460 poorly. We tend to want to collect our gold toys and get buried with them rather than transfer
00:33:54.120 our wealth and our knowledge to the next generation. So in that thinking, I think the
00:34:01.880 intergenerational transfer of knowledge is perhaps one of the big missing elements in our education
00:34:10.440 system and in that initiatory experience we were speaking about earlier and that as a society we
00:34:18.080 need to rediscover ways and means to transfer this knowledge in a deeply personal way between
00:34:25.720 grandchildren and grandparents re-establishing this deep intergenerational connection that gives
00:34:33.260 us a relationship. If we include all four directions, the north, the south, the east,
00:34:40.540 and the west, in this doctrine of relationship, a more holistic learning, a way of realizing our
00:34:48.220 deep interconnectedness to all that is, we might develop a different value set that drives our
00:34:55.880 society to a different capacity around adaptation and response to both each other, the environment,
00:35:04.580 and to the society that we all want to serve in a greater way.
00:35:11.780 Yeah, I really see a future in which that could happen. And I so hope for it. But I want to get
00:35:22.520 back to violence for a minute and i was on this thought thinking you know how can we be proactive
00:35:29.640 in the face of the future that could very well possess an increase in violence during these
00:35:36.040 periods of massive change and transformation so as a peacekeeper and advisor to the center of the
00:35:42.200 global non-killing or for global non-killing and of course somebody who is walking through this
00:35:47.660 world with awareness. I'm hoping you could speak to nonviolent conflict resolutions during the age
00:35:54.080 of climate change. And how can we prepare ourselves for this? You know, what does it require to
00:36:00.020 envision a world in which non-killing is possible? Yes. And it's interesting. It begins there at zero
00:36:08.540 to five. It begins with this idea, you know, it's so interesting. And that's why I wanted to send
00:36:15.080 you know, notes on these books and the look we're taking at it. And a little lesson called
00:36:20.680 Hana i Kolima, which in Hawaiian means work with the hands. We were thinking the design is really
00:36:28.000 with the children. It's really about this intergenerational transfer of knowledge, a way of
00:36:33.540 sharing deeper, reflective teaching that we perhaps may not be focused on in the culture of
00:36:43.720 modernity. So I can give you an example of that. And it would be, for example, this simple idea
00:36:56.240 at the beginning of the book around what it is that we do as people, as society. And I'll do a
00:37:07.600 little if you'll allow me a little excerpt please nana kamaka to look with the eyes
00:37:16.540 to listen with the ears most people see what they want to see most people hear what they want to
00:37:29.020 hear but if you put your emotions ahead of what you observe you could be led astray
00:37:36.240 Indigenous knowledge seeks to remove personal bias.
00:37:42.700 Nana Kamaka, look with your eyes, not your heart.
00:37:47.600 See what is really occurring.
00:37:49.740 Ho'olohei kapepe au, listen with your ears, not your heart.
00:37:56.320 Don't just hear what you want to hear.
00:37:59.940 Listen to what is being said.
00:38:03.080 So, for example, those are just two of some of the early principles that begin to establish the ability to listen actively, to communicate deeply, and not for altruistic reasons, but to be self-serving.
00:38:23.140 The fact is, if you participate as a collaborative human being, you will be far more successful. So human beings are basically cooperative and compassionate beings. Given the right set of circumstances, they can achieve most anything.
00:38:45.100 So part of what we need to do is create the right field of play, the right table or setting for our children to express themselves in the most meaningful way.
00:38:58.600 And so, you know, I'm certain that there, I always tell my students, you know, if there's important things to take care of, really important matters, let me know so I can send the staff person.
00:39:11.500 because I only want to do what's meaningful.
00:39:15.540 There's always going to be important stuff.
00:39:18.460 But the idea of having a life that's lived meaningfully
00:39:22.320 so that what I do is reflected in my value sets and who I am,
00:39:27.700 it gives me a deeper personal experience
00:39:31.020 and a greater sense of both sorrow and joy.
00:39:35.940 But it is a life well lived.
00:39:39.200 And that's where we're seeing the change.
00:39:41.500 if we create more responsible human beings, more conscious, more ready to engage in the planet,
00:39:48.440 they're going to be better prepared. They're going to be better citizens. They're going to
00:39:52.260 be better community people. They're going to be better family members. They're going to be better
00:39:57.140 brothers and mothers and fathers and sisters and better children and grandchildren. So really,
00:40:06.220 The great change begins right there, transpersonally, interpersonally, with the family, in community.
00:40:36.220 My girl is back another and always
00:40:42.220 With love with my future
00:40:45.220 My life is filled with you
00:40:48.220 For day after day
00:40:51.220 I say that I'm never in my room
00:40:54.220 I know to go
00:40:57.220 That it might turn away
00:41:00.220 But I wish it would wait
00:41:02.220 Yes, I really love the way that you intersect so many pieces of this really complex puzzle.
00:41:18.240 And I am thinking about, you know, just how you're speaking to spirituality and cosmology
00:41:25.500 and this interpersonal, transpersonal work and connection and communities.
00:41:30.860 And I'm also thinking about the ways in which you infiltrate large governmental, very strict sectors.
00:41:39.740 You know, in the 2014 Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change concluded, quote,
00:41:45.640 indigenous local and traditional knowledge systems and practices are a major resource for adapting to climate change, end quote.
00:41:53.080 but you know indigenous people's traditions and knowledge of the environment have long
00:41:59.240 preceded the field of climate science and as a cross-cultural facilitator which I love that you
00:42:05.280 are and you work with universities and organizations like NOAA what are some of the most important ways
00:42:11.960 westerners and western science and scientists can honor this traditional ecological knowledge
00:42:17.940 you know what is it like to work in and between both sectors wow that's that is
00:42:25.000 that is a great question you know and and it's interesting because really whether we work
00:42:33.480 institutionally organizationally in communities stratified by economics or social station
00:42:45.760 religion or religiosity, you know, religious beliefs, you know, I've found that it's really
00:42:53.080 moot. It really doesn't matter. At some point, we're dealing with the small sea of culture,
00:43:00.440 right? At some point, we're dealing with the little things. There's been so many great
00:43:08.900 human thinkers, philosophers through the ages who've reflected things. And I want to point one
00:43:19.840 out. And I think he's done a great job at this, George Lucas. And I think he pretty much got this
00:43:28.620 through conversations with others in the field.
00:43:33.840 But as Yoda, I think he put it best.
00:43:38.640 He says, try not, do or do not.
00:43:45.020 That pretty much is life, right?
00:43:48.440 And so I think we need to honor that idea about doing.
00:43:54.400 And government tries very hard, and there's a lot of institutions like the Nature Conservancy, Wildlife Federations, and they all try terribly hard.
00:44:11.740 But I'm not convinced that they do much if you are following me.
00:44:19.980 and so the doing I feel comes down to actual community and when we talk about community
00:44:30.940 some folks think it's community by political party jurisdictions drawn around registered
00:44:38.980 voters boundary lines some people think it's community defined by municipality or by state
00:44:47.300 boundary lines or there's a lot of different concepts about what that means you know but
00:44:54.480 the fact is community is actually family at some point it all comes down to family and so
00:45:04.580 we at Olohana like to work in that way when I I like that word you use infiltrate when I've been
00:45:13.860 working with these larger organizations, whether it's the Rising Voices Consortium or IPCCWGE or
00:45:21.680 any of the other groups we work with, NOAA, Pacific Services Center, you know, I have one rule.
00:45:31.280 I do not do things as institutions, organizations, or even as strong individuals. I will only do
00:45:41.660 action or an effort if we will do it as family.
00:45:47.640 And there's a reason I want that kind of familial
00:45:52.260 obligation to the effort. And it goes like this.
00:45:57.000 Family always has that uncle that you don't trust
00:46:02.260 around the young kids, you know. And family
00:46:05.960 always has that crazy aunt, the one that brings up the same 1.00
00:46:10.160 argument every year for the last 10 years at every Thanksgiving and Easter dinner. 0.60
00:46:16.440 And guess what? Next Christmas, she's still invited to the table. And so's that crazy uncle,
00:46:24.760 because that's family. It's messy. It's dirty. It's ugly. But we still must persevere. 0.99
00:46:33.100 Well, the way I look at it, the family of man is living inside this water bubble.
00:46:39.740 And no matter how ugly it gets, we're all still in the same canoe.
00:46:44.780 So we must, for the sake of our children and the next generation, figure out how we can all be here together in a responsible way that serves all of our purposes and moves the human race,
00:47:01.300 propels us forward in a responsible way to the rest of the biosphere. One could say that in some
00:47:11.480 sense, although I consider myself a Hawaiian citizen and a sovereign person of the Hawaiian
00:47:19.480 nation, I am a Jeffersonian, and I do value American politics and philosophy. And I think
00:47:28.960 Jefferson was a rational anarchist. And I subscribe to that kind of thinking. I believe
00:47:35.680 everybody in the world should be able to do whatever it is they want to do, as long as they
00:47:41.320 don't negatively impact anyone or anything else. Oh, goodness. I wish we all lived by that.
00:47:49.980 yes and yeah you see though if we begin teaching our children they will never go to violence you
00:47:59.560 know in the global non-killing effort we actually did the demographic study from 1900 to 2000
00:48:08.660 of all the wars in that 100 year period and we counted all the victims of the wars any violence
00:48:18.600 incursion and then added in any of these political unrest situations and you you realize that it
00:48:26.340 comes down to less than one percent of the human population was involved in any of that violence
00:48:32.300 less than one percent now if that was diabetes we would be on the verge of the cure
00:48:41.140 if that was cancer less than one percent the human race would be celebrating
00:48:48.460 are you following me and yet less than one percent we still all think war is inevitable
00:48:57.200 how is that possible it's because of the story we tell ourselves
00:49:03.700 i know it's kind of interesting the evidence is there the facts are there but any of us who have
00:49:12.500 watched mainstream media in the last two years you gotta know what a circus it's become
00:49:19.100 oh absolutely and i feel like yes the evidence is there the statistics are there a lot of the
00:49:29.020 solutions are here but there is this disconnect and i i want to talk a bit about that disconnect
00:49:35.080 and also i want to talk about hawaii specifically and in researching for this interview um you know
00:49:43.300 i was looking into what was happening with hawaii in terms of the agro ecology and the marine
00:49:50.960 systems and the heating waters and and i came across coral reefs which i know provide shoreline
00:49:58.100 protection from major storm events and are a crucial source for food for local communities
00:50:03.320 and then additionally the coral reef is at the center of and i'm probably going to mispronounce
00:50:09.140 this the uh kum yulipo the kanaka maiola creation story but yet this acidity of the pacific ocean
00:50:17.940 it's increased by 25 percent in the past three centuries and it's projected to increase another
00:50:23.860 40 to 50 percent by 2100 causing further coral bleaching and changes in marine migration and
00:50:30.620 the ocean circulation in general and then additionally Hawaii is set to lose over 25,000
00:50:36.160 acres of land causing nearly 20,000 shoreline residents to be displaced due to an anticipated
00:50:41.320 one to three foot sea level rise. So I know this is somewhat of an overload of statistics which I
00:50:47.740 kind of just mentioned that we have a lot of these statistics you know on sea level rise warming
00:50:52.420 water and of course just the acknowledgement of ancestral connection but these threads are so
00:50:58.400 deeply entwined with one another that it's hard for me to even begin to try and vocalize these
00:51:04.520 profound connections but yet globally the general public is so largely disconnected from the everyday
00:51:10.660 effects of climate change and this is only heightened by the fact that so many of us live
00:51:15.600 lifestyles in which we sit in air-controlled offices and commute through underground subways
00:51:20.740 and, you know, spend the vast majority of our days lost in screens, but our daily actions or
00:51:26.660 really inactions are directly contributing to the lessening trade winds and shifting rain patterns
00:51:32.660 that are felt in Hawaii. So my, I know this is all over the place, but my question I think here is
00:51:39.280 what advice do you have or what work do you do to address this global disconnect? And can you give
00:51:46.920 some examples of what it means to practice localization the global local thing while
00:51:52.820 standing on behalf of the place you know and love yeah and tricky ground tricky tricky ground right
00:52:00.100 like melting tundra one could say fraught with that same kind of disasters the potential for
00:52:06.580 methane explosion any moment now you know and how to do that how to create awareness while still
00:52:15.520 protecting natural resources while we're living in an environment where our own actions our
00:52:23.000 personal actions have very little to do with the impacts we're feeling as they are generally driven
00:52:29.380 by as you say larger societies that live in ways that are extractive and consumptive without their
00:52:40.080 own internal awareness. So it's really tough, right? I mean, the American people think of
00:52:48.440 themselves as a fair and just people who are really focused on doing the right thing for the
00:52:56.700 world, and yet they consume 38 to 42 percent of all the world's natural resources, and they're
00:53:03.800 only six percent of the population. But the Americans don't think about that at all. They
00:53:09.000 just want to drive down to the 7-Eleven and grab that Slurpee. So I mean, this is an interesting
00:53:16.440 thing you're talking about. It's about value sets. It's about reconditioning population.
00:53:23.800 What I've noticed when we're talking in policy is you can condemn pretty much everything except
00:53:31.120 somebody's food. Don't be saying nothing about their food. Food is the thing everybody gets
00:53:38.520 touchy about gotta feed the kids gotta and really the production of beef globally has some serious
00:53:48.060 impacts for us all but we can't talk about the beef industry because that would be taking food
00:53:55.020 out of people's mouths so uh we have to find ways to talk about it so me i talk about food security
00:54:02.380 and food sovereignty so we try to put diversified food back on the ground what's really happened
00:54:10.400 with our food supply is the entire globe is now being sourced out food by about six major
00:54:20.260 corporations globally and they don't want you actually being able to hunt or gather or procure
00:54:27.060 your own food. They want you to buy it from them in some form or fashion, wholesale, retail,
00:54:35.440 some form. So I think they have an awful lot of global power in terms of influence policy-wise,
00:54:44.720 politically. And wow, I'd almost venture to say through the pharmaceutical companies,
00:54:51.440 They have military capacity also, as evidenced by the war over the poppy flowers.
00:55:00.560 But all that aside, the fix still comes at a transpersonal moment when people decide very personally that they will live a different lifestyle,
00:55:15.120 live more in harmony and balance with the earth mother and so we run into real policy problems
00:55:25.540 in governance when government wants to separate religiosity spirituality from governance and for
00:55:33.600 good reasons but it has a sterility of a way of distancing the moral impacts of governance
00:55:42.000 And then I think we further want to stratify control by economic access and capacity. And that's a false indicator created by aristocracy and the serfs, which is also another false description of the human race.
00:56:02.660 And yet, until we create the mechanisms for properly educating or indoctrinating or invigorating our young into a society that is more compassionate, more inclusive, more in keeping with our environment,
00:56:22.000 then we are doomed to repeat this slow climb and rapid descent that the human race seems to have
00:56:34.440 been experiencing for a hundred thousand years so yes i invite any communities to get in touch
00:56:42.520 with us at olohana.org or myself at mkalani at mkalani.com if you want to engage in some global
00:56:51.100 ideas around the formation of community capacity in a way that literally puts water, food and
00:56:59.560 energy resources and waste management, which is a huge part of our problem in the world today,
00:57:06.740 back into the hands of community at a small scale.
00:57:09.600 Thank you so much, Kalani. This has really been an incredibly heartwarming and also very
00:57:16.160 invigorating conversation I feel like riled up but at the same time comforted which is such an
00:57:21.500 interesting mix but um yeah that's exactly it you should feel energized to do something not to try
00:57:28.820 something you know try not do or do not you know what I mean it's like and in doing something you
00:57:35.920 want to get fired up but not in a confrontational aggressive way of fired up or on optimism that
00:57:43.580 it's possible we can yes yes yes yes we can we can and we have to yeah thank you so much again
00:57:52.220 for the chance and the opportunity to talk story around this is the only way we get stuff done
00:57:57.100 thank you for listening to for the wild podcast i'm ayana young i'd like to thank our incredible
00:58:08.780 podcast team, Andrew Storrs, our producer and editor, Francesca Glassbell, our research
00:58:15.120 collaborator and writer, Molly Lebov, media director, and Carter Lou McElroy, our music
00:58:21.400 coordinator. The music you heard today was by Cover Story Duop. Our theme music is Silence
00:58:27.840 Returns by Bo and Like a River from Kate Wolf. We want to thank you again for tuning in every week
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