00:04:44.000doing the things like waking up and remembering to give thanks that I'm alive. I have another day to
00:04:49.640be a human being on this planet and to do the best I can as that. I always try to give gratitude to
00:04:55.760nature. Like even in Vermont, like where it's very cold in the winter here, I just, in the morning
00:05:01.120when I first get up, sometimes before I'm even fully dressed, I just like to open the door and
00:05:05.200step out on the porch and just greet the day. Like if it's a sunny day or a rainy day or a snowy day,
00:05:11.580just to give thanks to recognize the beauty of what's there and then I try to you know again
00:05:17.560just do that throughout the day like if I step into the shower to wash you know and scrub and
00:05:23.420get ready for the day it's really more than just cleansing you know I like to pause for a minute
00:05:27.880and think about that water and that fact that that water that's coming out of that shower sprout now
00:05:33.880is you know been evolving on this planet for thousands of years it's been traveling around
00:05:38.040the world and it's been in a cloud and in the rain and the ocean and now it's traveled down that
00:05:43.340spout and it's you know touching me like just to take that moment it's it's like a minute to just
00:05:48.800give thanks for the water and the journey it's made at that moment to be with me you know and
00:05:53.800I just kind of try to do that through the day like I go to my teacup right and so there's the thing
00:05:58.860of boiling your water and you know making your tea but then there's such a deeper way of doing that
00:06:05.120And I know you do the very same thing, you know, but I just feel it's like if we can create ceremony through these simple things that we do throughout our day, it begins to bring, you know, bring them into focus.
00:06:18.060And it brings so much more sparkle and so much more intention to our days, to the everyday things that we do, you know, not the, of course, we all create ceremony around, or many of us do around the big ceremonies, you know, the big holidays.
00:06:33.660but to do that daily and to then to do it to where it becomes a habit so I just wanted to
00:06:39.960emphasize this as I said like I feel like I've been doing this practice for years but to really
00:06:45.780do it when you're down and out or when you're looking at the world and it seems so troubled
00:06:50.000how are we going to find our way through the trouble that's when we really need to hunker
00:06:53.900down on these rituals and ceremonies that we do that reaffirm the power and the strength of the
00:07:00.360day and just what we're doing so that's kind of the daily practice I think you know it's getting
00:07:06.400up and even when you don't feel like it just giving thanks because the sun came up that day
00:07:10.880and the light's there and you know and just recognizing that and as far as because I know
00:07:16.080so much of my work centers around plants but this is another thing I remind myself even after all
00:07:21.320these years make sure you greet your plants right you know because they love human interaction you
00:07:28.080You know, that's why so many plants thrive around us, why they choose to grow around us.
00:07:32.960They really love being in relationship with other life forms, us being one of those.
00:07:38.860So, you know, like this morning when I was drinking my tea and I had this beautiful amaryllis that I've been nurturing for several years.
00:07:46.280So it's gotten to be quite a big bulb and it's in full bloom right now.
00:07:49.380It's sitting on my kitchen table and I looked up at it and it's like shining at me, right?
00:07:53.880so I just started singing that beautiful child song you know how can anyone ever tell you you're
00:07:59.540anything less than beautiful and literally I could feel that plant just leaning towards me
00:08:05.100glowing back at me I think those practices that we need to cultivate and need to create habits
00:08:11.940and sometimes we need to remind ourselves more than at other times that this is essential to
00:08:18.020our daily health and well-being and therefore to the planets so yeah thank you for reminding me to
00:08:25.880greet the plants I don't know how I could have ever forgotten that but I think it's it can be
00:08:32.760easy for us to forget these really simple practices rituals ceremonies and I know for myself when I do
00:08:40.540forget them I kind of get lost in the spiral of the overwhelm or the fear or the stress or whatever
00:08:46.980it is that life is throwing at us and I think it's so beautiful to focus on things that we know
00:08:55.960we'll find throughout our day like you know the the sun will rise whether we see them or not
00:09:01.140and having those moments of gratitude I think it helps every part of us it's like self-care
00:09:08.140it's mental hygiene I think we're better in our relationships with others we're better to the
00:09:13.740earth around us to our community so i i just see that as being it like opens the door to a whole0.73
00:09:20.400another way of being in the world and and i really appreciate that and i i guess i'm thinking too
00:09:27.960how this can help with our fears and i really love this quote from an article you did with
00:09:36.140the science and art of herbalism seven ways to lighten your spirit and you write quote don't buy
00:09:42.240end of the fear fear is one of the greatest control mechanisms there is yes be aware and
00:09:47.880stay informed but also listen to your wise guiding voices within your ancestral wisdom
00:09:53.640we can practice the art of waking up each morning and give thanks for another day of living
00:09:58.740even when it seems particularly difficult or challenging giving thanks and gratitude evokes
00:10:04.480gratitude, end quote. And I wanted to speak a bit about how to face those fears because I think on
00:10:13.540so many levels, especially where we are on the world clock with news and social media and climate
00:10:20.860change and extinction crises and pollution, you know, looking out our windows and knowing that
00:10:28.360we are up against so much. And yet, we go on. And I would just like to hear you speak a bit to that.
00:10:37.260Yeah, it's such a huge thing, isn't it? It's so easy for us to get overwhelmed, especially in
00:10:41.600these days, because when we think about the immense amount of information and news from
00:10:47.700around the world that we can download into our nervous systems, and it's more than at any other
00:10:54.640time in history. One time I remember Leah of Rising Appalachia was saying, she was using a
00:11:01.080quote that sounded quite official, of the amount of information that we get in like one day is more
00:11:07.300than we might have gotten in a lifetime, you know, with all of the access that we have. So I think
00:11:12.520one thing that's really important is monitoring. You know, we have to self-monitor, which is really
00:11:17.020hard to do, right, when you have a bowl of candy in front of you. Just take what you know is good
00:11:21.920for you and no more. We all want, we know the importance of being aware. So I'm definitely not
00:11:27.060about burying our head in the sand. I think awareness is critical right now for all of us,
00:11:32.640but it's knowing what we can take in and then what we can do. I think you have to match those
00:11:37.680two things up. So it's like how much we can take in is directly related to what we think we can do
00:11:45.100because we need to be active. Otherwise, I think that is part of the sense of hopelessness when
00:11:50.600we don't feel that there's an action that we can take. So that's one thing that I really monitored
00:11:57.380myself, being an extremely sensitive person, I can be saddened by hearing about somebody I know
00:12:03.160nothing about, we all can, you know, that's in some, like when I'm reading about the flooding
00:12:07.140going on in California, I know California needs water, I'm grateful for the earth, but I know that
00:12:12.900so many people are suffering, and my family lives there, so it even makes it more personal.
00:12:17.360well and so what is it that I can do to be helpful you know and so that's the thing where
00:12:22.980I think it's really important is you know looking at what we can do and it and and remembering that
00:12:29.460if everybody is doing the one thing that they can do or the two things they can do or the three
00:12:34.260that that in itself will begin to fix the planet yeah and then you know the other thing I wanted
00:12:40.000to mention too is that I probably draw my greatest faith from the earth herself right
00:12:45.260from looking at how many enormous disruptions
00:13:14.600and so much more in control than we give her credit for and all we have to do is think about
00:13:21.120you know travel back in time leave your body you know leave your human form and just travel back
00:13:26.500in time with the earth you know when the weather's right just lay on her and just do that journey
00:13:32.820with her and you recognize the immense amount of power that she has so you know again when when we
00:13:40.620humans can see our destructive action having such an impact, not only on other humans, but on
00:13:47.260other life forms. It makes it particularly tragic for us. But again, I think the solution is within
00:13:53.300us. We can make a difference. We just have to get really busy and really active doing what it is
00:13:59.280that we can do. So that's, at least for myself, that's how I, you know, steer myself away from
00:14:06.540that absolute feeling of despair and overwhelm because believe me I walk up to that edge I see
00:14:12.200it like everybody else does especially if I've been reading just one bad thing after another
00:14:17.060and then again not feeling like there's something active I can do for it sometimes if you know just
00:14:22.500for practicality sometimes being active means I'm able to send some money to help sometimes it means
00:14:29.220I can actually send things to help a family that I know is impacted sometimes it's just joining
00:14:34.320forces with a lot of other people to make a bigger difference. Sometimes it's just doing my
00:14:39.580work at tending my garden. So those active roles, or sometimes I might say, sometimes it's just
00:14:46.080tending to our own habits to make sure that our habits aren't contributing to the demise, right?
00:14:51.660So sometimes it can, I don't want to make it seem totally impractical when I say match the,
00:14:58.720you know, have an action that you can do, because sometimes it's as simple as going,
00:15:02.200i need to wash my recycling out better or not buy things that come in plastic sometimes it's
00:15:07.740that it's right at home and other times it's reaching out to a larger community
00:15:12.840yeah so that that would be i think some of the practice i think again it you know it's
00:15:17.980we have to monitor ourselves first you know we have to really pay attention to how our imprint
00:15:23.680is imprinting this earth and then from there we can follow the footsteps at least that's the way
00:15:30.280that I found to be the most effective. Yeah. And I guess something that's been coming to me as I'm
00:15:38.600hearing you speak is that we're not alone in doing this work or finding ourselves in it.
00:15:46.900Like when you were speaking about laying on the earth and feeling her and thinking back into
00:15:52.620history and gaining strength from her, to be able to then have the gratitude and have the
00:16:00.100self-awareness practices and take action. And I guess maybe more specifically, I'd like to talk
00:16:07.420about how we gain that strength and the feeling of not aloneness from the plants themselves
00:16:14.560as they support us in doing this work because of course we know that herbs can physically help us
00:16:23.500from ailments or illness which is amazing and I'd love to talk about that too but
00:16:28.060that they also can offer us a type of partnership and spiritual fortitude
00:16:34.340when we're when we're working through these massive issues so yeah just wanting to hear
00:16:40.400about that a bit. Thank you. Yeah. When I think about all the major lessons that I've learned
00:16:46.680about being a good human, some of them have definitely come from other humans and from my
00:16:50.580good parents, but a huge number of them have come from my direct relationship with the plants.
00:16:56.260And, and they're, they're almost like, would say they're just so eager to share, you know,
00:17:01.980it's not difficult to learn to be in direct relationship with the plants because they've
00:17:07.360been well i would say we have been evolving with them for literally centuries right everything that
00:17:13.100almost our entire life form depends on them you were mentioning like our medicine you know our
00:17:18.020food the air we breathe is just a codependent relationship with the plants and they were lost
00:17:23.340for for that matter you know we breathe in oxygen breathe out carbon dioxide which they breathe in
00:17:28.920and purify it's just a beautiful like you know co-partnership that's going on you know our clothing
00:17:35.280that we wear the shelters that we build I mean just it's remarkable but um the bigger the big
00:17:43.180lessons that I look at you know like one of the things that plants can definitely teach us is
00:17:47.580about trust because which is usually a big issue for people and you were mentioning you know how do
00:17:52.220we you know even just that word how do we trust where we're at in the world right now and I think
00:17:57.080about plants who have no choice really oftentimes and where they land and yet wherever they land
00:18:05.620they're going to thrive and grow the very best that they can so you know they're going to trust
00:18:10.420that the right amount of air and water and sunlight is going to reach them and if not
00:18:15.460then they go back to the earth and they oftentimes will put seeds and so there's this amazing level
00:18:22.660of trust that I've learned from being with plants, just from watching the way that they thrive
00:18:28.300wherever they're planted. Not always, but you've seen these bristlecone pines on the top of those
00:18:35.360mountains where there's no soil, all rock, tons of wind, cold weather. And yet those bristlecone
00:18:41.860pine will just thrive on what's given them. So I think learning trust, diversity is another thing.
00:18:48.280And, you know, like you look at a garden or a wilderness garden and there is so much diversity in there and so much acceptance of that diversity.
00:18:56.460You know, and I know I'm looking at this with human eyes, of course, but those are the only eyes I have to look at it with.
00:19:02.740And when I'm receiving my lessons from these plants, that was one of the things that I learned early on.
00:19:08.540You know, I would look at this. It was about beauty and the acceptance of all the different forms of plants that were growing in the garden.
00:19:15.500and that there was not one plant that he would look at and go oh that's a weird color or that
00:19:20.580doesn't fit in or that's not a beautiful plant you know they all looked beautiful and all together
00:19:26.380they made this beautiful diverse bouquet so it was just that acceptance that everything is
00:19:31.760different but everything together creates this beautiful organic bouquet you know of beauty
00:19:37.400I would say even lessons of biology and sex you know you look at how plants flowers just
00:19:43.760you know you know they're the sexual organs of the plants and they're so beautiful and they're
00:19:48.920so scented and they just put themselves out there you know just attracting like the different
00:19:54.100pollinators that go by not that necessarily as humans we want to do that but it's certainly a
00:19:59.340very very different view than humans have of their sexual organs you know we cover them up very
00:20:05.460religiously you know really and um you know hardly ever think of them as these blooming
00:20:11.480beautiful scented flowers so and even the that final giveaway that i was mentioning earlier you
00:20:18.120know death and renewal the plants just do it you know when they live their lives and then the trees
00:20:23.720just you know might live for many years as just these uh you know big dead
00:20:28.780trees and yet even in their death they give out so much and then they fall back to the earth
00:20:34.600and become the earth again so there's these incredible teachings that the plants offer us and
00:20:40.440you know how we learn those things it's just spending time with them it's like when you want
00:20:44.680to learn from any teacher you know if there's some special human teacher that you want to learn from
00:20:50.000you go and sit with them and you uh you be at their feet for a while that you know uh and you
00:20:56.500and so it's really that way with the plants we can read all about them there are so many great books
00:21:01.400we can read about how to be in plant spirit communication and those books can inspire us
00:21:07.360But they can never do with just going and being with the plants and being with them.
00:21:12.700I mean, you know, taking care of them, working with them, protecting them, you know, being
00:21:17.700in relationship with them, receiving from them and all the very many ways that we can
00:21:22.940stand up for and with the plants today.
00:21:25.180Then those plants just because they're trying to do it and because they want to do it, just
00:21:32.780I mean, really, honestly, that's how, you know, when we see this amazing renaissance of people, herbalists, we might say, or plant lovers, I'd like to broaden that term. It's because the plants are just downloading right now into people. Just, you know, if you even show an interest in the plants, they're just there feeding that information because they need us. You know, the earth needs us right now. And it is definitely asking us to stand up for it, you know, to take our stand, to do our watch.
00:21:58.580so I really think you know I think we laugh sometimes in the herbal world you know saying
00:22:03.960what people are drawn into plants or they think they're drawn into them because they have health
00:22:08.220issues or they want to be more independent of the modern medical world or just more informed
00:22:13.600and I think all of that is part of it for certain that definitely has helped fuel the herbal quote
00:22:19.640unquote renaissance but I think it has far more to do with the plants calling on their plant warriors
00:22:24.720you know to step up for them and um you know to take a stand on which you know people like
00:22:31.620yourself are doing in such a grand way i do it in a much smaller way but if we all again like
00:22:37.640what i said if we all just do what's in front of us to do and do it with joy in our hearts
00:22:43.260um we will accomplish this enormous task that we see in front of us today i'm i'm certain of it
00:23:22.880make archer alliance give voice to the fire move people to the beat of the wind gather yourself
00:23:29.980and begin to dance the song until it ends we are winners champions of the life forming in numbers
00:23:36.760and might keep the truth close inside something you said took me down this thought process that
00:23:47.960I don't think I've been able to articulate as of yet. So bear with me as I try right now.
00:23:54.980But I think, you know, especially with plant kin and just the more than human world in general,
00:24:02.140the trees, the plants, the soil, the whales, you know, there's so much that is changing.
00:24:08.200And there's so much that we're losing right now. And there is so much heartbreak in that.
00:24:15.940you know when we know we're in a biodiversity crisis and oh goodness it's um I know
00:24:24.440in my own journey through that grief there's been these times of just the shattering and then
00:24:33.340potentially the hardening of my heart or the the desensitization just to get through it and then
00:24:38.860the shattering and you know it kind of it goes in these waves and I guess what I'm trying to get at
00:24:44.480with this is that ecosystems are changing forests are changing meadows are changing
00:24:51.500we don't see a lot of the plants that we saw 200 years ago I think some of them are hiding
00:24:57.740underground as seeds waiting for a time when we're kind of have our act together and then
00:25:03.140they'll be like we've been here but we weren't ready to come back up yet but I guess there's
00:25:08.840this thought that I'm having is how we love what is. And whether that means, you know, we go into
00:25:16.600a place that once was old growth forest. And maybe it's not that anymore. I mean, most likely it
00:25:23.200isn't. And it could be a type of different landscape that has plants that were like, but
00:25:29.900you're not the plants that, you know, okay, I guess what I'm thinking of, like, you see some
00:25:34.040old growth forests that were logged. And then a lot of times logging companies will come in and
00:25:38.140spray erosion control and then there's invasive plants or there's plants that were never supposed
00:25:43.180to be there in the future and some people look at that as just horrid and painful and and a big
00:25:49.380problem that must be eradicated on a global scale eradicating all of these quote problem
00:25:55.880ecosystems i don't know if that's i'm like i'm not really sure if this is the way we are um this is
00:26:02.320where we should put our energy but i'm trying to yeah get to this question of how do we love what
00:26:06.780is and love the plants that are coming up for us and knowing that it's not going to always stay
00:26:13.660one way like whatever plants are coming up now may just be the ones that are pioneering the soil or
00:26:20.660getting it ready for its next iteration and so um it's totally totally yeah like the combination
00:26:28.200of grieving what we're losing but also falling in love with what is around us yeah that's the
00:26:35.860human dilemma you know the sorrow of what was and and then the newness really you know it is a hard
00:26:42.900thing to embrace but you know where it's interesting I really learned that lesson in a really big way
00:26:47.880when I moved to New England I moved here about a little over 34 years ago I grew up in Northern
00:26:52.900California and you know as I began to understand this landscape I realized that I was living on a
00:26:59.740landscape that just 10 000 years ago not it's like a drop in time there was a two foot and then some
00:27:06.160areas no two mile and in some areas five mile high glacier that sat on this landscape and in those
00:27:13.940what was it several thousand years maybe a couple i don't remember the exact length of time
00:27:19.300it changed the entire landscape here so these used to be the largest mountains in the whole
00:27:24.560north american continent and then entirely different species of plants would have grown here
00:27:29.200right before that ice age and yet we look at what's here and it's just stunningly beautiful
00:27:34.620right the forest and you know the hardwood forest those were not here before that glacier and it's
00:27:40.460the same when I lived out in California so here was shaped by ice California in the time span that
00:27:45.500we know as human beings was shaped by fire you know it was all volcanic eruption all of those
00:27:50.360mountains every once in a while one goes off right and you see an incredible disruption and yet in
00:27:56.200that disruption is all the new life that human beings in a few thousand years or animals maybe
00:28:02.080not humans but animals and that's animals will come to appreciate right and that's what i was
00:28:07.720trying to say early on you know that the earth is got a destiny of its own and it has had periods
00:28:15.480of terrible destructions you know huge meteorites have landed and totally changed life form on the
00:28:22.940planet and many many other things that we have some history of and not not a lot what makes this
00:28:29.400one so particularly difficult is we're the modality of change and we can change that we
00:28:34.920realize if we if we work together we can change some of the damages that we're seeing and really
00:28:40.420the choice when i look at that place that you were talking about kind of the despair and the
00:28:45.680the hope of it's a choice that we make you know almost every day do i feed into despair that will
00:28:51.600just sink the ship more am I going to go to the end of the ship that's sinking sinking sinking
00:28:56.120or am I going to do my job to go up to that other end and do the work that needs to be done
00:29:00.980to make our mother earth the ship sail again right and that's again where I was saying
00:29:08.740to think of that task as most it's enormous right it's overwhelming for us as human beings for most
00:29:15.500of us but when we get when we go to those simple tasks that we do every day you know like and that's
00:29:20.760why I was saying the importance of of doing these small ceremonies every day that that reconnect us
00:29:28.540to nature you know to the plants in our house to the water coming out of the shower to the day
00:29:33.680whether it's the sun shining or the you know those are so important because it fortifies our
00:29:38.800connection to the earth and just to the changing times right now and one thing that you know I
00:29:45.840think about and I know that I've heard other people mention this in more recent years you know
00:29:51.940the earth herself has her own destiny you know she just like we're in relationship to our clans
00:29:57.240and our tribes and plants have plant families that we've actually made for them a lot of the times
00:30:03.560the earth is in relationship to a solar system that's a concept that's far greater than most of
00:30:09.380us can myself included can comprehend so you know i sometimes feel i think about this sometimes like
00:30:16.700so the earth may be shaking a little bit in her orbit you know she is shifting some we know that
00:30:21.080for sure and we as human beings as you know cells on this earth may be trembling with her
00:30:26.780and instead of being good cells and doing our part in stabilizing we're acting out we're we're
00:30:33.680you know we're adding to the trauma I think where we have I think a bigger responsibility is to add
00:30:41.360to the stability and I again I want to say I really feel that's possible maybe not for all
00:30:47.180humanity to do but for a large part of us to do we can do it and are doing it and so yeah you know
00:30:54.780I think that I think and then the last thing Ayana that I want to just say it's on a very
00:30:59.500simple level but you know when you're talking about you know looking at the plants that move
00:31:04.440into damaged areas or you know when people have thought that rehabilitation means going spraying
00:31:10.900poison on all these plants and killing them and somehow that's going to help the earth
00:31:14.820and bring back the original plants right and it never does you know it just isn't going to work
00:31:20.480but so there's a better way to look at it and that's that's that plants have been traveling
00:31:24.180throughout time they're designed to travel some travel very quickly you know through mechanisms
00:31:29.240the seeds they grab onto passing animals passing people your socks some are enticing to birds who
00:31:35.980eat them and the birds poop and the seeds go all over you know plants and some travel very very
00:31:41.860slowly you know they get very connected with where they live they want to be left alone you know
00:31:46.600they're those habitat specific plants that many of those are rare and danger endangered as you
00:31:52.360were saying because the habitats are quickly changing right now so plants have always been
00:31:57.500changing and almost always we see the new what I call the warrior plants or they you know they're
00:32:02.720the plants that come and they have this tremendous capacity to root down and to thrive and then to
00:32:09.220change the soil and they're always going to add to the soil almost always when you study what
00:32:14.640they're doing to the soil and then and then they actually are the succession plants and other plants
00:32:20.860come in so we're looking at that plants have the ability you know it's one of the great lesson that
00:32:25.640they teach us is death rejuvenation and regeneration right they just do it effortlessly I'm sure that
00:32:32.800they go through their own processes with it so I shouldn't say they do it effortlessly but they do
00:32:37.780it continuously and every cycle that they're doing they're giving back to the earth you know through
00:32:43.540their through their bodies really through their process of living and dying and creating more soil
00:32:49.260that's one of the things I'm so sad about in our human you know death rights we put ourselves in
00:32:55.880cement boxes thankfully that's beginning to change but you know even in the final giveaway we block
00:33:00.660ourselves from the mother earth it's like really we're going to turn into skeletons and dust in
00:33:06.100this little cement box what could be more lonely right but plants just in animals just give
00:33:11.300themselves to the earth and then become the earth again and so yes so many of these plants that are
00:33:17.280coming in have purpose and meaning and almost always are coming in to heal the soil and
00:33:23.100interestingly enough many of those plants that we call invasive plants are also incredible healers
00:33:30.220and many of them are designated for some of the major illnesses that we're seeing now like the
00:33:36.100viruses or like Lyme disease you know Japanese knotweed is a perfect example or purple loose
00:33:43.920stripe which is another one isn't it because well first of all let me say Japanese knotweed is a
00:33:49.400powerful antiviral and actually is shown to fight spirochetes like Lyme disease and the COVID is
00:33:56.740another one and then purple loose stripe is specific for deep respiratory ailments you know
00:34:03.560again flus and viruses etc so you know those are just two examples but I also empathize with our
00:34:10.640beautiful native plant society people who are advocates for plants they're definitely plant
00:34:15.700lovers who are struggling to keep some of these invasives in check because they also tend to
00:34:21.740outgrow their limits and take over right so that's their the downside of it so you know some
00:34:28.660we do need to manage some of them or i wouldn't even say manage we need to be conscious and aware
00:34:35.000that these plants have the ability to do that but on the other hand to see them as villains right now
00:34:40.400it's completely off track it'd be like thinking of redwood trees as villains when they first
00:34:46.000started growing up in the pacific northwest after a whole nother species had died away right
00:34:51.940they definitely have their part and i think one other thing i know i'm babbling i'm so sorry for
00:34:57.220it but these ideas are just popping you know we all love an old growth whether it be an old growth
00:35:03.680forest or an old well-established garden you know they're they're like the holy temples on this
00:35:09.780planet these old growth forests there's nothing like them but it also is important to recognize
00:35:15.400in the old growth there's very little diversity you know it's like you have a certain species
00:35:22.820that lives there and not a lot of other things can come in to that it's just um you know because
00:35:30.060of the shade covers and because of the acidity often or whatever has been dropped down by the
00:35:36.180leaves of those trees. And it's the same in a well-established garden. In a, you know, like in
00:35:41.000a managed, maintained, well-established garden, there's not a lot of room for diversity. You know,
00:35:46.460it's all very, in a garden, it's mapped out by humans, yes. But in the old growth, it's mapped
00:35:52.140out by nature herself. So it's not to say that we don't need those old growths. I will defend them
00:35:57.780with everything I have in my life. But it is interesting, you know, I grew up in the redwood
00:36:02.400forests in northern California and it was so easy to learn the plants in those forests you know I'd
00:36:07.960go in and there was you know there was maybe 100 or 200 plants that grew there and that was about
00:36:13.580all you were going to find and then I noticed when I came to New England I lived here when that big
00:36:19.220ice storm happened and when that ice storm we don't have old growth forests here it's a tragedy
00:36:24.380because the forests have been we have very few acreage of forests because they've just been
00:36:28.860logged for so many years but we had good healthy forests on our land in sage mountain they had not
00:36:34.540been logged for you know 60 70 80 years and they were full canopy when that ice storm happened
00:36:40.720which was devastating it was in 19 i think the 1980s or 1990 was it affected the entire
00:36:48.260eastern seaboard it opened up big areas in the forest and as i said it was devastating to me
00:36:54.840but it was also incredibly interesting to me to see the diversity that grew up by nature in the
00:37:01.600areas that were left open by the canopy. And even thinking about what I've learned from
00:37:09.040the indigenous folks of California, they would burn areas near old growth so that new plants1.00
00:37:16.800could come in. And that was part of the, I like that you didn't use or you reframe the word
00:37:23.560management but the way we collaborate with collaborate thank you yeah with um these lands
00:37:29.180uh to allow new species and young buds and tender greens to grow up in the places that
00:37:37.360wouldn't have otherwise and yeah i really this conversation is is relieving in the sense that
00:37:45.960there's something about trust and something about surrender to the processes of the earth
00:37:53.540and I don't understand them like when you were speaking about the solar system I'm like oh my
00:37:57.980gosh I forgot about not that I forgot but like I'm like oh yeah like this is just so huge and
00:38:03.420I will never be able to understand nor do I even want to try to understand I want to be
00:38:08.200in relationship which is in a sense to me being present and showing up every day and being in
00:38:15.600these small rituals and ceremonies and loving and being grateful and finding the beauty and
00:38:21.540working through the challenges with others but not about trying to figure it all out quote unquote
00:38:27.680because I don't even think that's a worthy endeavor and I think it takes us away from
00:38:32.640being able to be in reciprocity and gratitude in a lot of ways and I guess something I was
00:38:39.920thinking about too as we're seeing so many ecosystems change because of habitat destruction
00:38:50.040or and that could look a lot of ways you know we have logging and there's industrial farming
00:38:56.280and I'm thinking about how that relates to the plants we choose to take into our bodies as
00:39:03.300medicine because I love thinking about that plants will show up around us that we need
00:39:11.800like dandelion I just love that that you know we need a detox and here they are just coming up
00:39:17.680through the concrete almost everywhere around us. And we may look at that like, oh, that's just a
00:39:22.820weed. I need to go to the health food store and buy this really, you know, powerful plant from
00:39:30.140this totally other place or grown somewhere halfway around the world. But we dismiss so
00:39:36.460many plants that are just trying to say hello to us and say, but hey, look at me and I'm right here
00:39:41.940And I'm not costing you anything. Even though I do love supporting herbal companies too, I don't mean to say that we should never buy things because I think that can also be wise at times and supportive of our communities.
00:39:55.560but just how we reframe the way we see plants as medicine in that sense the ones that do decide to
00:40:04.660grow near us and how we value them versus how we value things that are packaged and told to us as
00:40:11.880they're a super food or a super plant but somehow these other ones are weeds and and I think that
00:40:19.280really ties into cultivation I think it ties into wild crafting I think we can reframe or
00:40:26.680learn what is a healthy relationship to harvesting plants for our own health where we are not
00:40:34.240disturbing the land anymore so yeah for for those of us who are wanting to turn to plants as our
00:40:42.760medicines and we want to do it in a good way and in a way that really supports the longevity of
00:40:49.820these plants wanting to hear your thoughts on that yeah thank you sweetie yeah well i think
00:40:56.540one of the most amazing things is that almost all those weedy plants that are we find growing
00:41:02.040vigorously around human habitation are some of our most medicinal plants like really literally
00:41:08.100when you study their chemical constituents and their actions on the body I mean I think that
00:41:13.040again we're looking at that very co-creative partnership between plants and people so people
00:41:18.320move into an area they disturb the soil and then you get this group of plants that have pretty much
00:41:23.920traveled you know here I'm talking about temperate regions but if you were in South America
00:41:28.040you know tropical regions it would be a similar group of plants in those areas you know a similar
00:41:34.040group of plants native to those areas that would move close to human beings and really literally
00:41:40.020when you study those plants those are most of our major medicines so when you look at dandelion
00:41:44.440nettle plantain chickweed mullein cleavers you know these are major medicinal plants and um
00:41:52.620and the reason again i think that they they grow it's like co-creative they like the disturbance
00:41:58.900that we create they thrive in disturbance and they also provide incredible medicine for us
00:42:06.020and so that is one thing as you yarrow is another one oh my god i keep thinking of all my favorite
00:42:11.900plants right they are the common meaty species that travel like so it growing up in a temperate
00:42:17.540region anywhere in the world that i travel that has a similar kind of mediterranean climate or
00:42:24.180temperate area of the world i'm going to find all of these plants that i grew up with as a child
00:42:29.320that are my best friends and also my most favorite healers right because they have traveled with
00:42:35.300human beings and been passed down like when the settlers first came to this country for
00:42:39.760better or worse i might say but um they brought them they wasn't like a lot of these plants just
00:42:46.360didn't steal a board they were carefully selected to come aboard with these pioneers because they
00:42:51.960were their valuable medicines and they were the familiar medicines right so and then you know of
00:42:57.960course there there is something to using you know some of the there's a lot of medicines that don't
00:43:04.120go in our bioregions that are very powerful very healing and again when I look at traditionally
00:43:09.420people have been trading herbs since the beginning of time when they first started using plants you
00:43:13.880know try and trade it with tribe and people would pack them into their camels and travel around
00:43:19.500because you know people who use plants love to share and so plants have found have found their
00:43:25.080way so I'm not saying that it's not appropriate to use herbs from other regions and you know like
00:43:31.320you were saying it's totally appropriate to support your local herbalists and you know the
00:43:36.020the people who are growing herbs organically but I but I do want to emphasize that your most
00:43:42.680important medicine is growing in a weedy patch around you in your garden somewhere down the
00:43:48.380country lane or in a city lot you can find all these plants um or else it's in your kitchen
00:43:55.300closet right because you know every single spice and and herb that you have that you if you're a
00:44:01.460cook are also of our most potent medicines like rosemary, thyme, oregano, margarine, turmeric,
00:44:07.080ginger, garlic, onions those aren't secondary medicines those are primary medicines that we
00:44:14.160used for you know daily treatments for the everyday health and care of human beings and so
00:44:21.060they found their way they wiggled their way into our kitchen right so we're always using them
00:44:25.980constantly it's kind of wonderful I think but I do want to share this is for listeners who
00:44:32.300are new to herbalism it is critical when you buy herbs to make sure that you're getting them from
00:44:38.800ethical companies and that's kind of a strange term and we all know what that term means but
00:44:45.760there's not a company that's going to say I'm an unethical company or a wildcrafter that's ever
00:44:50.980going to tell you I wildcraft unethically so you you have to have a standard you know I would just
00:44:56.180say go by recommendations of people who recommend companies that that support local farmers organic
00:45:03.980Cultivation and Fair Trade Herbs. There's a really important book that is, I think, a really good
00:45:10.540reading for anybody coming into this field. It's called The Business of Herbs by Ann Armbreit. It's
00:45:15.860really not about the business of herbs. It's about where your plants come from and just being
00:45:20.720conscious and aware. And I also usually like to suggest that you go to the United Plant Savers
00:45:25.860website. It's an organization that's kind of the watchdog organization for medicinal plants in the
00:45:32.020United States. And it has a list of plants that are at risk or endangered, usually because of
00:45:37.660over-harvesting or habitat destruction that we really probably shouldn't be using from the wild
00:45:44.160right now. So that would be the place to start with, you know, is be informed. If you're going
00:45:49.240to move into herbal medicine, you know, cultivate an interest in it, which I highly recommend you do
00:45:55.020for a number of reasons, to be informed of where your plants come from. It's important. I think we
00:46:01.660should be informed where our medicine is coming from, period. So even if you're using allopathic
00:46:06.980medicine, you should know where that medicine is coming from.
00:46:31.660where I felt my body disappear into lights of color
00:46:41.720gosh there's so much to say and I know we've been talking for quite a while so I'm trying
00:46:48.540to wrap it up here and it would be nice may I share one little practice that may be helpful to
00:46:55.800you is so one thing when I first started hosting these large earth conferences I was in my early
00:47:01.34020s and um at the end of the conference you would get all of this energy directed at you right and
00:47:08.280you'd also get you know people's complaints or whatever and I I would realize after I'd hosted
00:47:13.620this incredibly amazing event I would feel kind of yucky afterwards like I felt that like why
00:47:19.660am I feeling just amazing and I realized because I was holding these thoughts that were coming and
00:47:25.920they weren't really mine they were like just like this event was a calling those those all that
00:47:31.480all the good energy and all the bad energy was just compost and so I remembered the saying that
00:47:37.000was Lord make me a hollow reed from which your voice may speak and that always became still to
00:47:42.520this day that became my mantra you know it's just I just want to be a vessel and let that energy flow
00:47:48.460so all that good energy I just receive it I give great thanks for it I just let it flow right back
00:47:53.680and give it as a gift to the earth and then all the criticism I take what I can from it you know
00:47:59.700I try to change things if I can but a lot of times I can't so I just give thanks for it just let it
00:48:05.120flow through me and offer it back to the earth it's really a very wonderful practice and it has
00:48:10.260been a guide for me and it's really helped me at those times when I could get really stuck
00:48:15.100that that is really helpful and I feel like I've I've known either in myself or in other
00:48:23.700friends who have done their own versions of that and got caught up in the inner turmoil
00:48:31.280and how to release and and give the energy back and I guess that's kind of a a nice way to
00:48:39.620begin to close is how we give that energy back. I think about your journey with Sage Mountain
00:48:46.900and oh gosh yeah it feels reminiscent in a way of course you were there a lot longer than I was at
00:48:56.220Cougar Mountain but to love land and to cultivate plant and human community and put so much of your
00:49:04.460heart and soul into somewhere and to also know when it's time to let go and to allow the next
00:49:12.900stewards to come in and you know there's so much about I think encouraging intergenerational
00:49:21.460conversations and healing within this transition I think there's this question of or this thought
00:49:29.800of ephemerality and permanence and what we leave behind whether that be a garden or a collection
00:49:35.180of stories or learnings passed down through generations like I think what you've done with
00:49:41.280Sage Mountain I'm sure there's there's hours of stories and learnings and practices there but I
00:49:48.680would just love to hear you speak about what it has been for you to cultivate so much there and
00:49:54.620how you've learned to leave behind something permanent and at the same time something ephemeral
00:50:02.260thank you yeah it's a beautiful you know when i moved to sage mountain i left california and my
00:50:10.260community there and the herb school and every you know my store i moved to a place i'd never been
00:50:15.120i'd never been to vermont it was like sight unseen and when i drove up the road it's like about a
00:50:20.740mile long dirt road that goes up into the mountains. The minute I saw it, I was just
00:50:25.520madly in love. I felt like I came home. Though I learned as the years went on, it was a very
00:50:30.640different feeling of home that I had for the place I was born and raised. But it was a recognition
00:50:35.760of that land. And some of my best years, I was there for a little over 30 years, maybe 32 or
00:50:41.72032 years. And yeah, some of the best, I mean, you know, it was such an active place with
00:50:48.300classes and courses and people coming and interns but then there was the wilderness there you know
00:50:54.820it's a it was a 500 acre piece of land that abutted around an 80,000 acre wilderness so in
00:51:01.980Vermont that's a lot of wilderness it's actually what it considered one of the largest contingent
00:51:06.740wilderness areas in Vermont and yeah you know and I always had wanted to caretake land and
00:51:14.860own land you don't have land in order to preserve it i didn't to me i didn't have any idea what that
00:51:21.980meant i didn't realize it was a lot of work and also when you are in wilderness as you so well
00:51:27.540know you are face up against all the threats to it it's not like you're reading about it or not
00:51:33.040like it's in somebody else's backyard you know forest preservation and uh you know the logging
00:51:39.200logging companies and all the land getting logged around you and then nature herself
00:51:43.400you know comes in and like you know I remember um uh I would think it was in the I mentioned this
00:51:50.100the ice storm in the late 1980s I think it was around 1990 um actually it was it was 1994
00:51:57.980because or 1993 because it was exactly 20 years ago that it happened or anyway when that ice
00:52:06.760storm happened it I thought mother nature makes a bigger mess logging than humans do it was a major
00:52:13.020mess I mean it was like I just all the northeastern seaboard was just hammered with that ice storm
00:52:19.840and yet you know when I got to watch that land rebuild itself we had a forester a couple
00:52:27.720foresters come out to try to direct us what would be the best thing to do for our property and a lot
00:52:32.760of the landowners around us were being advised it was better to log because you cut down on the
00:52:37.520insects but we ended up not doing that and our forests are definitely the most healthy forests
00:52:43.080in that entire area because nature was able of course right I wasn't at all surprised
00:52:49.300was able to heal itself so the land even more I would say the people the memories I have of all
00:52:56.460the great people I met there in the classes and the intern programs they just filled my heart but
00:53:01.380it was really that relationship with the land. It's where I really began to hear the plants
00:53:08.340actually talking to me and directing me about replanting at-risk plants, you know, and where
00:53:13.740United Plant Savers was formed. I heard that message right from the plants that were growing
00:53:18.640there. So it was a really huge thing. But as my husband and I were growing older, the amount of
00:53:24.480work it took to maintain it was just more than we could do. And we were getting tired from that work.
00:53:30.120And we were also at that time, I was almost 70, was getting to that place where, you know, it was more of a burden.
00:53:37.700Like I think about, oh, the next year and I've got to do all this stuff just to maintain this place.
00:53:41.920And my husband was thinking the same because we had tons of snow and there was all the management of snow and a lot of outbuildings, all the management of the outbuildings.