00:01:27.780He and fellow Adcestral Guard members are featured in the documentary, Gather, which
00:01:32.460focuses on the growing movement among Native Americans to reclaim their spiritual, political,
00:01:37.080and cultural identities through food sovereignty.
00:01:42.920Well, Samuel, thank you so much for joining us on For the Wild podcast.
00:01:47.940I've been really excited to speak to you since I saw you in the film Gather, which everybody
00:01:54.540should go watch if they haven't already.
00:01:57.840I'm sure a lot of you have, so watch it a second time.
00:02:01.120And yeah, thanks so much for being with us.
00:02:04.860Yeah, I'm really honored to be here and share a space with like-minded people because that's
00:02:08.840how we're going to build towards common goals.
00:02:12.640So I'm thankful to be here and share my story with you and your people.
00:02:17.400Thank you, Samuel. So I want to begin this conversation talking about the Yurok lands,
00:02:25.200and they envelop around what we know as the Klamath River and the Pacific Coast. So for
00:02:31.920listeners who are joining us from afar, I wonder if you could begin by introducing us to this place
00:02:37.540through the sights, smells, and sounds of the surrounding forest lands, lagoons, estuaries,
00:02:44.040and seascapes. Yes, so Northern California, I love so much, you know, I've had the opportunity
00:02:51.480to grow up in the same village as my grandfather and his grandfather and drink from the same creek
00:02:57.960straight up the estuary of the Klamath River. And when I close my eyes and I think about the
00:03:02.220mouth of the Klamath River, I feel that cold rush of ocean water as it mixes in with a little bit
00:03:08.240more temperature river water and you can just hear the seals seal lines and pups just living
00:03:15.040their best life down there at the mouth of the river and right now it's elan season so the
00:03:19.400pacific lamprey are swimming up the river this is a ancient species that's colder than salmon
00:03:23.940actually it's been coming here for thousands of years you know luckily we have the ability to
00:03:29.160harvest these fish these ancient fish and provide for our families so right now that's what's
00:03:35.180thinking that's what's on my mind and often when i schedule meetings it's uh scheduled around the
00:03:40.920tides and what fishing season it is so you get um everybody's pretty lucky the fish aren't running
00:03:46.440today well that was so beautiful thank you for grounding us in place and i'm familiar with those
00:03:58.180lands just a bit north of me and I'm so moved by the grandeur and beauty of this place. And
00:04:08.380yeah, just speaking about the river as you just did, the abundance of the Klamath River has been
00:04:15.760severely restricted since the late 1700s by way of mining, logging, and damming. Now, for example,
00:04:23.980this river was once home to the third largest salmon run in the lower 48. Now Northern California
00:04:31.140is risking the collapse of the entire salmon population. So as a Yurok fisherman, can you0.99
00:04:38.620speak to the history of the Klamath and how the runs have been historically impacted by colonial
00:04:44.100development across the West? As I said earlier, I'm thankful to be raised up in the same village
00:04:51.980that my great-grandfather was raised in and his father and his father since the beginning of time
00:04:56.940and right at the estuary of the Klamath River you know drinking from the same creeks eating from the
00:05:02.580same prairies it's it's it's a real blessing to be able to have that connection and this river has
00:05:09.800been providing for our people since the beginning of time and when we say that we say that often
00:05:17.100What we don't realize is that some of these oral traditions that are shared amongst our people go back to way back when there was ice shelves along mountain ridges, and that they say that there was only this little pocket of life, thankfully, because of the redwood trees, the ancient redwood trees that protected us.
00:05:36.100And so since the beginning of time, since some of our earliest stories, we have the systems of reciprocity with the natural world in order, and that's kind of sustained our lives throughout the years.
00:05:47.100Whether it be modern colonization that we're facing today with political plans and, you know, agendas that don't fit the needs of the people of Northern California, or whether it be a couple hundred years ago when they thought gold was, you know, just everywhere up here.
00:06:04.860And turns out it wasn't. And then people started, instead of making money off digging gold, people were making money from clearing the lands of indigenous people and that land then being gifted to them by the government.
00:06:19.380So these lands and these systems of reciprocity has carried our people through unimaginable burdens.
00:06:26.580And these people who have made that journey throughout these lifetimes have built the society that we know today in Northern California.
00:06:33.960And if you look across America, I truly believe that America was built on the backs of Indigenous people, under the blood, sweat and tears of Indigenous people from all around the world.
00:06:45.320And if you look around today in America, the American dream is being kept alive by Indigenous people from all around the world.
00:06:51.740So this connection that we have with the earth as a living organism and understanding that we need to carry these values of world renewal with us on a daily basis and understanding that if we do not continue these systems of reciprocity with this earth, then there will be no system to maintain.
00:07:15.060and that's kind of the driving force behind why salmon are so important to us because salmon
00:07:22.120everybody knows salmon are a keystone species you know a lot of people don't know that salmon
00:07:28.060have nurtured the forest around the rivers for thousands of years and developed this unique
00:07:33.500landscape to what it is today all this beauty that we see around us all life stems from the
00:07:39.360earth the beginning water you know that first water has led to all life on earth and so we
00:07:47.860respect acknowledge this on a daily basis and that kind of guides our work in our hand every day
00:07:54.040thank you so much for sharing that and your words were really
00:08:00.320moving to here and yeah across the so-called united states there's been a swell in movement
00:08:10.160to finally remove dams that have been causing harm for decades and after a 20-year battle
00:08:16.540the klamath river dams will finally be removed by 2023 restoring salmon access to more than 400
00:08:23.820miles of habitat. So can you share with us any important updates or perhaps just general
00:08:30.800reflections on the kind of commitment and perseverance it has taken to push for the
00:08:36.880largest dam removal project in U.S. history? People have been risking their lives to ensure
00:08:44.100that our children have access to healthy opportunities. And it's always been like this.
00:08:50.880When it comes to these dams on the Klamath River, it's like slowly being spoon-fed poison.
00:09:00.240And the impacts that it's had on our community have been detrimental to our health, to our traditions, our daily culture.
00:09:08.680and the people who have carried on that battle and made it possible for me to enter into a culture
00:09:17.380of not only resistance but dedication for you know next generation of people that we haven't
00:09:24.500even met yet to be able to step into that space i'm grateful because i started organizing around
00:09:30.140the undown the klamath coalition i mean undown the klamath movement when i was 14 years old
00:09:35.900and at that point in my life I had no idea what I wanted to do I had no idea who I was but I knew
00:09:44.440as a fisherman that I needed a healthy river and I needed healthy land to sustain my way of life
00:09:52.460and that's why I dedicated my time from the time I was 14 to right now to making sure that you know
00:10:00.060I'm doing everything I can for these dams to come down and I'm just a super small part of a
00:10:06.300of a whole system that's been at play because these dams have been on our river for around a
00:10:12.640hundred years and in that time frame we've seen salmon runs you know dwindle into nothing lamprey
00:10:20.900numbers dwindle into nothing green sturgeon dwindle into nothing these aren't only food
00:10:27.460these aren't only species that are swimming up our river. These are opportunities to connect
00:10:33.840local humans, local people of Northern California to the importance of why we should respect this
00:10:43.400place. Every time there's a salmon that cannot be caught by someone up here, that's an opportunity
00:10:49.720that somebody loses to be connected to this place. It's not just about harvesting. It's not just about
00:10:55.840putting food on the table. It's all about developing a mindset within this next generation
00:11:00.740that allows them to utilize the knowledge and skills of a fisherman, of a bow maker,
00:11:10.800of a regalia maker, of a singer, of a traditional dancer, utilizing these skills and lessons that
00:11:17.800they learn at a young age in adulthood. So when they're making decisions on their own,
00:11:23.880they can look back and say, I learned patience from setting my net. I learned discipline from
00:11:29.840building this regalia. I'm going to apply these values and these skills to these obstacles that
00:11:34.880I'm facing today. And a loss of opportunity to do that means that these children, this next
00:11:40.220generation, they will have problems that they will face continually. And without that support,
00:11:47.040you know the outcome is not going to be the best but if we ensure that children have an opportunity
00:11:54.280to live in a place that provides for their education that provides for their health care
00:12:01.700that provides for their child care for provides for them their whole life experience as a whole
00:12:07.900the river does that our lands do that these ceremonies do that so it creates less stress
00:12:16.720on a system that has been designed to care for our children in America. So we have all kinds
00:12:24.620of social workers that are overburdened right now. We have all kinds of health workers that
00:12:29.180are overburdened right now. And we live in a time where people don't have access to their
00:12:36.020traditional spots. We're still fighting for access to our hunting grounds. We're still fighting for
00:12:42.120access to our fishing grounds and that's why it's so important that we continue that fight and we
00:12:48.440continue to make sure that our children have these opportunities because if they don't then their
00:12:56.520children won't have these opportunities and then their children won't have these opportunities
00:12:59.880but if we do stand up and we do fight and we do stand our ground for what we believe in and what
00:13:06.420we love, then it's going to set that example for this future generation. And it will be the common
00:13:12.620ground that we stand on is a common belief that we need this place and we need this place to be
00:13:18.760healthy so our people can continue our way of life. There is so much good stuff in that last
00:13:27.460response. Thank you for taking us there. And yeah, this conversation also reminds me about the length
00:13:35.480of restoration and the work that follows in the aftermath, both in terms of physical river
00:13:41.820restoration, the length of time required for salmon population to increase, but also the
00:13:48.060remediation of ancestral territories and the heart and spirit that is intertwined with the river
00:13:54.900and how that relationship changes and can strengthen. So I wonder if you'd be willing
00:14:01.500to share what you think long-term restoration will look like in your life and for the next
00:14:06.900generation after the dams come down yeah I'm glad you talk about that because you know it reminds me
00:14:14.440of the first time that we went to the Amazon rainforest and when they first reached out to us
00:14:21.880and you know they told us there's tribes that wanted to talk to us to speak to us we had no
00:14:27.440idea we weren't a non-profit organization we weren't you know too organized at that point
00:14:31.920and it was really shocking to me and i was really scared because not to go but what do i tell these
00:14:38.500people they requested us from you know so far away we're traveling three different uh planes
00:14:46.600to get there nine hours by boat to get this village and we get there the first question they
00:14:52.300ask is how are we still alive after a dam's been built on a river for a hundred years when they
00:15:00.520are feeling the effects within days and I was dumbstruck I didn't know what to say at that
00:15:08.680moment in time but I realized that merely living our life as indigenous people on this river system
00:15:18.380in northern california and fighting for our right to do so has led by example to the point where
00:15:26.260we are now connected with indigenous people from all around the world who are fighting for the same
00:15:34.040opportunity to provide healthy learning experiences for their children and we realize that
00:15:40.580colonization some people believe it just happened or you know colonization is something like an event
00:15:46.340or you know something just a piece of policy that has been changed and so we don't have to
00:15:51.220worry about it no more and people need to get over it i don't know how many times i've had
00:15:55.180that conversation with people but in reality colonization is an ever-evolving process it's
00:16:02.060a culture that is ripping through indigenous lands right now as we speak the same tools of
00:16:08.580engagement were used in Northern California in the early 1900s and late 1800s. Those same tools0.97
00:16:17.180are being implemented across indigenous lands in Brazil. They're being implemented in indigenous
00:16:22.640lands across Malaysia, across Chile, and our people are facing the same colonization that
00:16:30.520completely destroyed our way of life. And that's where we can find common ground. And that's where
00:16:37.460we can unite and say what's working for us in our community may also work for you in your community
00:16:45.940and that's with understanding that you can pass and you can live with the values
00:16:53.120of indigenous people without appropriating the culture because so many people especially in
00:16:59.780modern day scholars you know and everybody they they get traditions and culture all muddled up
00:17:07.260into the same thing. They think it's the same thing. But in reality, they're very different.
00:17:11.280The traditions are the things that our grandparents did, that their grandparents did,
00:17:16.060and their grandparents did, and their grandparents did for thousands of years. And traditions are the
00:17:20.540things that we will continue to do for the next couple of thousand years. Now, culture, culture
00:17:26.980is constantly evolving and changing. And it's life, it's happening right now around us. And
00:17:33.680every day it's different every year it changes and evolves so what we're trying to do is we're
00:17:41.280trying to get this our families to involve growing their own food having access to fresh organic
00:17:49.740produce and having access to the knowledge they need to teach their children we're trying to get
00:17:55.480that into the daily culture so if we can get these foods like lettuce and tomatoes and you know
00:18:04.260greens and potatoes and all these things that aren't traditional foods if we can get these to
00:18:11.040become cultural foods first and so they're a part of our living experience so when these young
00:18:17.160parents are building these into their daily culture and into their daily lives it becomes
00:18:23.200culture and it becomes tradition to the next generation. So although they're completely
00:18:27.700different, they're often connected. And that's where it gets kind of muddled together. So having
00:18:32.940a clear line between the two has helped us identify easier methods of implementing our
00:18:39.820programming into the community. Oh, that's so good to hear. And I want to talk more about these
00:18:48.340gardens and the organic food and all that you just spoke to. But before we get to that, I
00:18:55.640wanted to bring up that in many conversations I've had on the program, I've been reminded that
00:19:01.260the environmental movement cannot simply adapt traditional ecological knowledge for climate0.61
00:19:07.120adaptation and mitigation without ensuring that indigenous people are physically in charge of
00:19:13.880and on the land to implement these practices. And this is certainly something that is coming1.00
00:19:20.260up in California with regards to cultural burning. But I also think about this in context to the
00:19:26.120Yurok who have endured significant dispossession via timber corporations and the national park
00:19:33.200systems. So as an introduction to Ancestral Guard, can you speak to the importance of renewal and
00:19:40.820connection to resources amidst a system that has chronically mismanaged the land?
00:19:47.640Yeah, so I believe if you are part of conservation effort, and that effort does not put Indigenous
00:19:57.520people at the forefront of the decision-making process, if that organization is not implementing
00:20:03.480traditional uh ecological knowledge and working with the indigenous people of that area you are
00:20:11.780a part of modern colonization and that's a hard fact to swallow and i'm not saying everything
00:20:17.960you've ever done has been evil or you know not with the best intentions but it goes back to
00:20:25.580being able to adapt to modern values of indigenous people without appropriating the culture and
00:20:36.920there's only one way to do that and that's not inclusion because even saying inclusion
00:20:43.020means that this whole process belongs to you and you're bringing us to your table
00:20:49.360Because right now, 100, so every climate issue that we're facing on this earth today, I guarantee you 100% of the solutions are sitting within the preschools and elementary schools of tribal nations from across the world.
00:21:10.620And that's where our focus needs to be.
00:21:13.240You cannot go back, you cannot change time, but you can change your mindset today.
00:21:19.180You can change your value systems today, right now. You can decide that you want to take that step from acknowledging that just adapting Indigenous terms and, you know, taking Indigenous culture and applying it to your programming isn't enough.
00:21:41.640land acknowledgement isn't enough we have to take that next step and restore these natural systems
00:21:50.740of reciprocity with the earth that have been in play for thousands and thousands of years
00:21:55.140and that's the thing with american culture that always gets me is that americans just think you
00:22:00.160know they came to this pristine place that was just ripe for the taking and that it would be
00:22:05.980forever giving because there was so much. But in reality, it's taken thousands and thousands of
00:22:13.920years of data collection and implementing harvest management programs and ensuring
00:22:20.840that our children understand that taking and basically general capitalism will not support
00:22:29.720our way of life. And that we need a system that has roots to these places. We need to restore
00:22:39.600these existing systems. We cannot recreate these systems. We have to go back and acknowledge
00:22:45.820that indigenous communities hold the answers and solutions to their problems. So many times0.99
00:22:54.660scholars come into the communities with answers they come in with years of experience and they
00:23:00.640try to force these answers upon communities you know and i just realized through our connection
00:23:07.980with uc davis that it's not always like that we've had such an amazing opportunity with you know
00:23:14.040katherine kim at uc davis a professor who's dedicated time and energy into making sure that
00:23:20.640Our people have the necessities to collect data,
00:23:24.720credible data, and utilize that within our own systems
00:23:28.520for our own programming and our own people.
00:24:47.260beautiful reflection and i wanted to bring up that one of the ancestral guards recent endeavors is
00:24:55.200the victorious gardens program and for listeners who are unfamiliar they might be surprised to
00:25:01.780hear that food apartheid exists in places like northern california because so often the narrative
00:25:07.760focuses on food apartheid in urban settings not rural locations as well so can you share with us
00:25:14.920more about the victorious garden program and what is being grown and at what scale
00:25:21.000there was thousands of dollars like that was supposed to be brought into our community at
00:25:27.200one point in time to help with food security but in reality all that money got absorbed into
00:25:33.720outside organizations who came in here that collected their own data for their own different
00:25:38.940organizations and then spent thousands of more dollars telling us that we live in a food desert
00:25:44.700and there was no solutions brought to the table so you know it's like we have to realize
00:25:52.580that indigenous people hold the solutions to their own problems and i say that again and again and0.98
00:26:00.540again because when it comes to food sovereignty and what we're doing with our food is it's not
00:26:07.300originally it wasn't a food sovereignty initiative what we did is we asked indigenous youth we're
00:26:12.760floating down a river one day my brother john luke he's here with me today and uh he could
00:26:18.580tell you all about it when we just first started teaching kids on how to fish properly with the
00:26:24.200right mentality so you know they can take care of themselves and their families and it was because
00:26:29.880a bus didn't show up one day that's how the true start of our food security initiative and our whole
00:26:35.260ancestral guard programming because when the bus don't show up on the res it doesn't let anybody
00:26:40.240know it just doesn't show up so we had all these kids left over and uh my brother john luke he
00:26:47.620he was his friends that they brought they brought them in and they wanted to learn how to go fishing
00:26:52.720and um so we did that i got my buddy together and we borrowed a bunch of boats and equipment
00:26:59.000from a bunch of neighbors and told them what we're doing and everybody was so supportive
00:27:03.500in our community and we took these kids fishing before we did that we had to teach them how to
00:27:08.020row and teach them how to set net and do all these things and it was like a peer-to-peer with my
00:27:12.420brothers because they're like fishing machines but they were to stand there give them the guidance
00:27:16.720give them the you know everything they needed to make it happen and then as we're going down the
00:27:20.740river all my training as a community organizer started to kick in I said whoa this is a prime
00:27:26.820opportunity right here because you know I've spent my whole life dedicated to providing healthy
00:27:31.800opportunities for my people since I've been in trainings all up and down the west coast and
00:27:36.300across the United States, um, since I was 13, 14 years old. And at that moment in time, I seen a
00:27:44.240piece of cardboard floating around. So I grabbed it and I grabbed the Sharpie and I started asking
00:27:48.380all the kids, you know, what is it you want to see in your community? What is it that you'd like
00:27:54.060to see? And I wrote down what they said. So we decided to focus on our food security initiative.
00:28:00.500And through that, we developed the Victorious Gardens Initiative, originally drawing inspiration from what the indigenous youth said they'd like to have as a part of a food security system, and then going rolling over and adopting programming from the United States government when they were at war, because we're constantly at war every day.
00:28:21.840So I wanted to bring those values in to the programming. And that's what we did. So we created the Victorious Gardens Initiative, which is modeled off Victory Gardens. And if you're not familiar with Victory Gardens, that's a whole nother podcast. And it's definitely worth a Google.
00:28:37.940But it's basically, it's when the United States kind of mandated everybody to grow a garden to provide for themselves in rough times because we couldn't supply for everybody.
00:28:48.180And even people grew gardens and they supplied food for military people.
00:28:54.440So taking those same concepts, we wanted to develop gardens that were privatized because we realized that community gardens are not the solution in rural Northern California.
00:29:06.260because a majority of the time the people who are doing the most work are not the people that are
00:29:12.060reaping the benefits of the harvest and also we see that a lot of people don't have access to be
00:29:19.040able just to drive to a community garden because we're so sprawled out that it takes 20 minutes to
00:29:24.500even show up to the community gardens 20 minute drive there 20 minute drive back you know for a
00:29:29.240lot of people and just they don't have the time they don't have the money they don't have the
00:29:34.440resources to do it so we see a lot of community gardens just kind of fade away and kind of like
00:29:39.700become kind of like a eyesore in our communities so we realized that and we decided that's not
00:29:46.460what the energy that we wanted to go with by that time community gardens are really starting to blow
00:29:50.760up so you know we took a lot of licks on that saying that we didn't want to do community gardens0.97
00:29:55.540But then once we got support to develop our system, to develop this system that was designed and engineered by indigenous youth, that we had the opportunity to implement these privatized garden experiences for our community.0.88
00:30:17.320So we're setting up all local garden boxes in our community.0.98
00:30:23.260For instance, we have a community of 20 here in this little Yurok housing block.
00:30:28.860So all 20 households have a six-foot garden bed that's four foot wide and is filled with
00:30:38.080So it's living soil that we've built the soil right in front of the eyes of every person
00:30:43.140and talk to them through the experience of why we're putting wood chips in there, why
00:30:47.460it's so important that we have a living soil.
00:30:50.820And then we're coming through and we're putting in organic plant starts from a local nursery and then also offering an assisted gardening service for families where we come through at least once a week and make sure that they have a maintained, that they're maintaining a healthy garden to ensure a healthy harvest.
00:31:05.960And the reason why we're doing this is, yes, we want to provide our people with fresh vegetables and greens and so they have access in this place where it's technically a food desert.
00:31:17.940but the real reason why we're doing it is because this is a first step of our zero to three program
00:31:25.240which we call the seedling society where we have new mothers sign their babies up for the ancestral
00:31:32.460guard as you know young is not even born yet they can sign their baby up for the ancestral guard
00:31:38.780they get a garden box we take care of them we also provide zoo meeting services for any cultural
00:31:44.540questions or mentoring that they would ever need. And we're doing this because we realize if we
00:31:51.740want people to stand up for their rights and not be worried about the food that's in their fridge
00:31:57.140or being able to provide for their families, we have to start with a whole new generation of
00:32:01.740people. We have to ensure that there's babies alive today that don't know what it's like to
00:32:08.740come from a household that doesn't have a garden or access to fresh nutritional produce.
00:32:14.540And that's the goal, because we want these children to grow up with the same experience that most people who are gardening today have.
00:32:24.100And that is that their auntie, their uncle, their grandma, their father, somebody in their family that they loved maintained a garden.
00:32:31.740And the majority of the people that are gardening today, that is the primary reason why.
00:32:36.020And so there's been a generation we've noticed through doing our studies with UC Berkeley, through their future food pathways, that we realized there's a whole generation within our community of people who don't know what it's like to have a garden in their household.
00:32:52.140And everybody, all their kids and stuff like that don't really know about gardening at all. But the people who do, they always say they have that fond memory and you can almost see them go back in their mind and talk about how special it was to them.
00:33:06.520Those neurological pathways need to be rebuilt within this next generation of children. So if we can have a generation of children that when they reach adulthood, they can say, and they are facing their own problems and obstacles in life, that when they dig deep into their subconscious and dig for answers, you know, they have the experiences, positive experiences of good mentors.
00:33:30.880they have the positive experiences of having access to fresh produce they have these positive
00:33:36.180experiences of gardening with their families and they say okay i need to provide for my family today
00:33:40.520i'm going to grow a garden because i know how to do that you know we want to be able to have
00:33:45.480these children look back on these building blocks because this right now in their time
00:33:50.680frame in their life from zero to eight a large part of the subconscious is being developed
00:33:55.980And if we can get as many positive experiences or reinforce traditional actions or cultural
00:34:03.180values, then the better off I believe these children will be in the future.
00:34:09.080So in my mind, we're utilizing micronutrients to combat the ill effects of socioeconomic
00:34:16.320depression within rural California communities by not just giving families a handout, but
00:34:24.420giving families a hand up so they have the ability to take care of themselves. Because we live in
00:34:29.520such a resilient community. We live amongst people who, you know, strive to provide a better life for
00:34:36.960their children. And we want to give them the opportunity to do so. These are the people we're
00:34:41.460working with. And that's what's kind of interesting to people is that we're turning this whole idea
00:34:45.820of providing for a community upside down. And we're revitalizing foodways that have been lying
00:34:54.000dormant in our community. Because there's been this huge divide between fishermen and farmers
00:35:01.260in the Klamath Basin over water and the water wars that are affecting all of us. And in the eyes
00:35:08.420of the government, it's really nice. Because if Indians are fighting with farmers over drops of0.95
00:35:15.780water from the bucket, then as they're diverting, you know, 80% of a river down to Southern
00:35:22.420California they're diverting literally diverting you know thousands and thousands of gallons of
00:35:27.900water on a daily basis from the poorest communities in California and they're diverting them to some
00:35:34.300of the richest agricultural communities in the world and then our governor on top of that right
00:35:40.880now has declared drought in California but only for those agricultural communities so there's no
00:35:47.560protection for our people up here where the water is coming from and that's systematic depression
00:35:53.580that we're facing today so when we realize that these skills that we're learning on the river
00:36:00.140these skills that we're learning as fishermen these skills we're learning as beaters and these
00:36:05.560skills we're learning as indigenous people are the strongest tool these value systems are the
00:36:12.960strongest tool for colonization that has ever been developed through any generation, through any
00:36:18.920society. Why? Because for the first time in America, we're seeing politicians represent
00:36:26.880the people. We are seeing indigenous people in places of power that we've never seen before.
00:36:34.260And we have to utilize any opportunity we have to protect these places. And right now,
00:36:41.240the war over water in our community is tearing apart everything we've ever built
00:36:47.780one even if they ripped out all the dams today right now we still wouldn't have enough flow
00:36:56.640proper flow in the river to meet the minimal need for a healthy salmon run and it's right now the
00:37:05.220farmers on the upper basin, the government has allotted them 35,000 acres of water. Seems like
00:37:11.220a lot, right? But for a healthy harvest for them, they need 500,000 gallons of water. I mean,
00:37:18.660acre feet of water. And right now they're allotted 35. Meanwhile, over 60 to 80% of the
00:37:28.420Trinity River is being diverted from our watershed down south to protected farmers who have no idea
00:37:38.020about reciprocity with the land. The concept does not exist for them. All it is is an extractive
00:37:45.300actions that are stacking money in a bank account. And that's what we're fighting against. Some of
00:37:52.540the richest people in the world, some of the most well-connected people in the world.1.00
00:37:56.520And their number one competition for their money is indigenous people trying to feed their families.
00:38:06.760And right now, California's drought action plan proposed by Governor Newsom doesn't even include our communities.
00:38:15.160And that's what's scary, is that here I figured if I spend my whole young life dedicated to fighting for our rights,
00:38:23.720that there would be a break for our children there'd be a break for this next generation
00:38:28.340like they wouldn't have to work as hard but what I've realized now is that if you want to see
00:38:33.540the future of water look no farther than what's going on in the Klamath basin because exactly
00:38:40.360what's happening to our people right now is happening to indigenous people all around the
00:38:44.720world exactly what's happening to our people right now is the face of modern colonization
00:38:51.540at its finest but what's happening right now as well is we are raising a generation
00:38:58.480of gifted individuals who will have access to healthy foods at a very young age they'll have
00:39:06.800access to education indigenous-based education practices at a very young age and we are grooming
00:39:14.060the next generation of leaders and they they don't even know because in reality all we're doing
00:39:23.240is we're providing healthy opportunities for these children and that's what's going to
00:39:30.140save all of us is that we continue to look at the children of the next generation as people
00:39:38.100who are going to save us we have to stop looking at these these children as you know youngsters
00:39:45.060our kids and we have to start looking at them as young elders as people who will lead the next
00:39:52.380generation on this planet having said that what i say is always invest in indigenous youth
00:39:59.680because our not just indigenous youth but youth in general give them responsibility
00:40:04.960Let them understand what's going on. You're never too young. I remember at the age of 13, I was already facing, you know, problems that affected thousands of people. And I understood those things. I wanted to help and I wanted to do something about it. And the opportunity was there for me to do something about it and to learn about it.
00:40:24.900these skills aren't just for indigenous people.
00:40:54.900And not let it define who you are today, but let it inspire you to invest in the next generation so nobody has to experience that.
00:41:05.420Because a lot of people talk about historical trauma and they talk about indigenous people having historical trauma and all these things like heart disease and all these things that sprawl from it or connected to it.
00:41:16.760When in reality, the historical resilience of our people is amazing.
00:41:21.700The fact that they went through every single stage of genocide that the American government could develop and still come out to develop societies that are leading the new world today and leading the conservation efforts across California.
00:41:39.320This is what we need to acknowledge. And understanding that these opportunities exist within Indian country, that opportunities to learn from Indigenous people is still here.
00:41:53.680I just always wish that people respected Indigenous people and loved Indigenous people like they respected Indigenous artifacts, like they loved Indian stories.
00:42:06.960You know, and that's where we have to draw the line, is that we have to acknowledge how important Indigenous people are in the role of survival for all of humanity.
00:44:24.380It all falls back to the best, the easiest example I could use is the porcupine.
00:44:30.880as if you were California and you from Northern California at a young age,
00:44:35.980you know, you realize you see a bunch of porcupines and today you don't see very
00:44:40.320many porcupines and you think it's because environmental impacts are,
00:44:44.620you know, we don't just don't have access to the lands where they are or
00:44:48.140whatever it may be. But in reality, you have to understand porcupines were wiped
00:44:53.040out. They were purposely killed, trapped, relocated,
00:44:56.440exterminated because they would eat the new saplings of trees that were replanted now these
00:45:05.280trees weren't natural trees they weren't trees that you normally find in this area they're kind
00:45:11.080of like timber trees and so it all comes back to money why our land is so polluted is because
00:45:18.080northern california has always been used as a giant bank account for california if you look at
00:45:25.940The development of California from the railroads, you know, even California, why it's so long, why we are the longest state in the United States because the railroads and because they wanted to people wanted to avoid taxes being taxed traveling through all the states and stuff.
00:45:40.980So if you just look at the way that money has evolved our way of life, it's just it's just astonishing to think that, you know, thousands and thousands and thousands of years of, you know, living in balance with our earth and our planet and making sure that these opportunities exist for our families to connect has been replaced with with poisons and toxins.
00:46:09.260all within the last hundred years and the reason why we have so many chemicals in these places and
00:46:18.720our water sources and everything is because back in the day the parks and timber companies used to1.00
00:46:24.880spray used to spray deadly chemicals everywhere all over the place and they knew indigenous people0.62
00:46:33.000were utilizing these places and they didn't tell anybody they didn't care and lots of people were0.99
00:46:38.680getting cancer is because our elders are basket weavers we're putting all these materials in
00:46:43.400their mouth and they're utilizing it and we're putting our babies in the baskets that we create1.00
00:46:47.120and all these forever chemicals is what we know them as we all know them as forever chemicals
00:46:53.380we're sprayed everywhere all in the name of conservation
00:46:57.580so i like to tell people if you are part of a conservation effort that does not put0.74
00:47:08.680Indigenous people at the forefront of the decision-making processes, if you are part of a conservation effort that is not utilizing traditional-based land management practices, then you are a part of modern colonization.
00:47:24.080And it's something that's so wild to think about, that people who care about the environment can be colonizing Indigenous lands at the same time.0.78
00:47:35.860because that's always been the retreat.
00:47:59.940because the American culture is so destructive.
00:48:02.460even allowing people to be there will decimate it and it's true as americans you know we're greedy
00:48:10.020we have tendencies to not care as long as we're doing all right but the indigenous value but what
00:48:17.880that happens in is you get left with a cyst you are cutting out an endangered species from that
00:48:25.340ecosystem that has been keeping it in balance for the last thousand years and that species is my
00:48:31.080cousin it's me it's my brothers it's my sisters we are being cut out from these lands where we
00:48:37.640used to set fires to make sure that the underbrush didn't grow up to burn down the forest
00:48:41.540to make sure that the creeks are cleared out so they're not being over bushed to make sure that
00:48:47.480these animals are kept in check and to make sure that the balance of this place is kept in check
00:48:53.260that's our whole reason for living in existence right now as people world renewal is to protect
00:48:58.680these lands and make sure that they are healthy and modern conservation efforts are stopping us
00:49:08.020today me as an individual i've had guns pulled on me for fishing i've been chased with a helicopter
00:49:16.700simply for fishing because a car was stolen 20 miles away and we look suspicious you know i mean
00:49:25.860I've had been almost, I've had dragged into court for hunting elk on our ancestral territories in a completely illegal manner.
00:49:35.280I've been told I'd just go to prison and I'd have to pay, you know, thousands and thousands of dollars in fines and lose my gun rights.
00:49:42.920I've been thrown down on the pier and detained, handcuffed, eight officers, cop dogs on us.
00:49:49.100because a man in American flag, Oscar, was intimidated by our presence when we were crabbing
00:49:56.180on the pier. These modern methods of conservation are constantly creating
00:50:07.420opportunities for our people to be caught up in the system. And once our people are caught up in
00:50:13.240the system it is so hard to escape it's probably harder to it's probably harder to get out of the
00:50:19.500system than it is to quit drugs because everything you do every aspect of your life your current
00:50:27.040culture which today's culture is a lot different than what people think of indigenous culture
00:50:32.460because like i said earlier the traditions are things that our families have always done
00:50:37.000our cultures is our daily living experiences and right now our culture is if you're caught in the
00:50:42.860system and you can't afford to make it to your probation meeting you can go back to jail if you
00:50:48.700can't make it to your meeting or if you mess up or have any of these things you're caught in so far0.99
00:50:52.780up in the system it takes years to get out and that all stems from not allowing indigenous people
00:51:03.780access to our lands to our ceremonies to you have to realize it was illegal for my grandparents
00:51:10.560my great-grandfather to be indigenous and punishable by death he was born in 1912 and that
00:51:17.860was two years i remember that because everybody in the family was happy because it was almost
00:51:22.700two full years before you could legally after they made it illegal to take somebody's scout
00:51:27.880for money indigenous people scout for money so it's not even that long ago the government promised1.00
00:51:34.400people in northern california if you exterminate the indigenous filth people on your land0.99
00:51:40.420And you can prove to us by showing us scalps of men, women, and children that you did so, we'll give you the land, and then you can make money and get rich off the timber industry.0.99
00:51:53.920These are the type of systems that modern conservation comes from, keeping people off your land, stopping people from being there.
01:00:39.240But if you yourself understand that, and if you stop investing so much of your precious time and energy into people, organizations, and places who aren't showing that reciprocity, who aren't loving you back, then you need to make a change in your life.
01:00:56.580Because once you start surrounding yourself with people who you love, who love you back, everybody understands how important it is to protect this land and these places so we can continue to provide that opportunity.
01:01:12.260And these are values of world renewal that transcend everything that I do on a daily basis. They transcend through programmings, through conversations, through the way that I get into relationships, the way I end relationships. These values are constantly at play.
01:01:34.920and that's where we can utilize indigenous values of world renewal without appropriating
01:01:45.200the culture of world renewal and the easiest example for me to explain how that works
01:01:50.140is i feel like i'm in the best position to talk about this because not too long ago i took that
01:01:56.56023andme test found out on there it said like i'm a big part sapatista and i was so excited
01:02:04.060but you didn't see me go down there and just try to take from them or take from their culture and
01:02:09.860just bring it in to back home with me and use it however i see fit or put it into my culture or use
01:02:15.340it you know what i mean and just take from them no i did research i figured out i learned i immersed
01:02:21.440myself in the knowledge not just of just passive basic google research but trying to reach out to
01:02:27.940people there you know and it's that kind of thing that is is lost in modern appreciation
01:02:33.900modern acknowledgement because people think it's okay for me to appropriate this culture because
01:02:40.920i acknowledge the importance of it in reality no no just don't do that just be appreciative
01:02:49.080that you can hold the same values as somebody else and you can hold those same values and you
01:02:57.560can hold people accountable to those values which is the most important thing because once you take
01:03:02.340care of yourself the most important thing is you don't let people walk all over you you don't let
01:03:07.500people treat you with disrespect you don't let people do that to you and that's where that power
01:03:13.360comes from and knowing who you are knowing where you stand right now and knowing who stands with
01:03:21.420you gives you that power to take care of these places and i have my ancestors to thank for that
01:03:27.560Because no matter what they went through, the rape, the molestation, the Christian culture, which devoured our way of life, all these things that they faced, they came home and they taught us these values.0.91
01:03:41.920And they implemented them into our lives so we may do the same one day.0.96
01:03:50.460And on Ancestral's Guards Instagram, there's a post that shares the following, quote,
01:03:55.540the world needs your positivity more than ever as people of world renewal it is our responsibility
01:04:01.700to reconnect with the rhythmic elements of our planet end quote and as we come to a close i
01:04:09.540wonder if you could share any reflections you have on the responsibility you have to renewal and
01:04:16.140also where can people connect and support further the ancestral guard you know the way i look at it
01:04:24.220is I don't think I don't see it as a culture that I make time for it's more of like this is
01:04:32.420my life and I make time for other things you know so it's it's it's really hard for me to
01:04:39.100differentiate like why it's so important and why it's a part of my everyday life
01:04:47.600because it's not something I can just turn off it's not something I can just walk away from
01:04:51.860Because no matter where I'm at in this world, no matter what I'm doing, even if I'm robbing banks, I'm still going to be a man of world renewal.
01:05:00.140And there's nothing I can do to change that.
01:05:02.680Because it's in my blood, it's in my DNA, it's within my subconscious.
01:05:08.420And I believe that we all have the ability to realize what's right and what's wrong.
01:05:18.220It's not black and white, but it's what's right right now and what's wrong right now.
01:05:39.260You don't have to go try to save the world and take the problems of the world and throw them on your shoulders.
01:05:44.500Do not do that because that's how you're going to get burnt out.
01:05:47.660And once you get burnt out, people don't need you. And once people don't need you, they don't worry about you.
01:05:55.240But if you're strong and if you maintain who you are, your integrity to why you're even in this, you know, exist, why you're even existing in the first place, once you, you know, you find your own strength and realize that you can't derive strength from anywhere else except from within you.
01:06:12.900trust doesn't come anywhere from within you love doesn't come anywhere except for within you so you
01:06:19.760have to understand that applying these values to your daily life is one of the most important
01:06:26.240things you can do to help me to help anybody just take care of yourself take care of the people you
01:06:31.360love and make sure you're taking care of the land that you're living on but if you would like to
01:06:37.180learn more if you'd like to you know come check us out we do traditional redwood canoe rides
01:07:11.360If that's what you feel like you need to do. Otherwise, just take care of yourself and provide healthy opportunities for the youth in your life.
01:07:20.260Because that's what somebody did for me. And it's something that I'm so thankful for that I will continue to do for the rest of my life.
01:07:27.180wow Samuel this has been such an incredible time to spend together in just so much wisdom that
01:07:41.160you're slinging our way thank you so much for all the work that you've done clearly both
01:07:47.620you know on the outside but also so much inner work that you have sorted through to be able to
01:07:55.240come to this work and to this earth in the way you do. So I just want to say I'm so grateful
01:08:02.240for all that you are doing and have done in the past and will continue to do for the future and
01:08:08.120for the while definitely stands with you in your work. And for those of you who have been
01:08:14.740moved by this conversation, I really think that, you know, head over to Ancestral Guard
01:08:21.120and um watch gather so you can see samuel in his land doing what he does so thanks yeah thank you
01:08:31.320gather will be out on netflix in november 1st i believe so you'll be easier to access
01:08:36.620and we also have a documentary out on youtube right now called guardians of the river which
01:08:42.620is kind of like a sequel to gather because it kind of explains about you know where we're at
01:08:46.940our gardens right now and about dam removal so if you got some time if you haven't been tired
01:08:52.240or listening to me talk already go ahead and check that out thank you for listening to for
01:08:59.640the wild podcast the music you heard today was by lake mary all the queen's ravens and
01:09:04.980jess williamson for the wild is created by ayana young erica ekram francesca glassbell and julia