For The Wild - SHA’MIRA COVINGTON on Healing the Fashion Industrial Complex ⧸265

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00:00:29.980 review wherever you listen to the podcast. Hello and welcome to For the Wild podcast.

00:00:38.600 I'm Ayana Young. Today I'm speaking with Shamira Covington. I believe that the fashion industrial

00:00:46.120 complex hasn't even grappled with the fact that the industry was built with slave labor,

00:00:51.220 that it was built on native and indigenous genocide. So this pivot to racial justice is

00:00:59.440 interesting, right, to put nicely. The fact that we have diversity, equity, and inclusion issues

00:01:06.180 just in representation in fashion, this is just representation. So just seeing a Black designer 1.00

00:01:11.400 get mainstream attention, even though the industry has profited off of Black labor, 0.90

00:01:16.160 Black culture, Black aesthetics, just seeing Native Indigenous models on the runway, 0.73

00:01:22.920 even though the industry operates on Native and Indigenous lands and also appropriates 0.77

00:01:28.540 Native and Indigenous culture. Marginalized representation in the industry is still

00:01:33.980 egregious. So for companies to be saying that they are for racial justice, I mean,

00:01:39.740 I'd like to see this, right? Shamira Covington is a PhD candidate in the Department of Textiles, 0.90

00:01:47.600 Merchandising, and Interiors at the Institute of African American Studies at the University

00:01:53.120 of Georgia. Her research explores fashion as a cultural, historical, social, and political

00:01:59.900 phenomenon involved in and affected by histories of colonial domination, anti-colonial resistance,

00:02:06.880 and processes of decolonization and globalization.

00:02:11.840 Her dissertation, The Revolution Will Be Embodied,

00:02:15.600 uses archival sources that argue that despite the fashion industry's exploitation of Black activism,

00:02:21.920 Black people have always used embodied practices such as dress, yoga, and dance

00:02:27.600 to liberate themselves from hegemonic forces.

00:02:30.420 well Shamira thank you so much for joining me today I really look forward to our conversation

00:02:39.800 yeah thank you for having me great so I'd like to begin our conversation

00:02:47.520 in recognition of what you call the fashion industrial complex which feels especially

00:02:53.540 important as it highlights the limitations of transformation when it comes to inherently

00:02:59.120 exploitative systems. And where my mind really goes is thinking about how brands are using the

00:03:07.020 term sustainable in very finite dimensions. For example, we hear about businesses that are

00:03:13.980 sustainable in their use of materials. They use biofabricated textiles, measure their water usage,

00:03:20.520 etc. Or we see companies who have an ethos towards sustainable production in terms of

00:03:26.020 paying their workers a semi-livable wage. But rarely do we ever see both. For example,

00:03:33.940 a recent report put out by Stand.Earth lauded Nike, Levi, and Puma for, quote,

00:03:40.160 shifting their supply chain away from fossil fuels, end quote. However, we know that these

00:03:47.000 fashion companies are also responsible for exploiting workers across the globe through

00:03:51.640 cheap labor. So I wonder if you could begin by responding to this inquiry and the restrictions

00:03:58.460 of the fashion industrial complex when it comes to achieving true sustainability.

00:04:03.960 Yeah. So in your question, you bring up the fashion industrial complex and what that is.

00:04:13.020 So to contextualize the fallacy around sustainability in the fashion industry,

00:04:19.320 it's important to understand how the industry actually operates. And it does that in an

00:04:26.580 industrial complex. So the fashion industrial complex is what I consider to be the fashion

00:04:32.460 industry's collaboration with the social and political systems of society, and then the

00:04:38.680 creation of profit from these systems. So I like to remind people of the prison industrial complex,

00:04:46.120 right? Because we know that term more commonly, rather. And in that complex, there's an overlap

00:04:52.560 of interest of government and industry to do things like surveil, to police, and imprison.

00:05:00.080 And these are solutions to economic, social, and political problems. The fashion industrial complex

00:05:05.260 is similar. It has historically, and in contemporary times as well, used things like

00:05:11.460 slavery, genocide, environmental warfare, and the profits from that to solve economic, social,

00:05:18.180 and political problems. And the fashion industry does this through the glitz and glam of consumption.

00:05:25.180 So taking all of that into account, we have to ask ourselves, how can such an industry

00:05:30.560 be sustainable, especially under capitalism, which is going to value capital accumulation,

00:05:37.960 competitive markets, private property.

00:05:40.920 So when we hear about brands being sustainable

00:05:43.120 in terms of material or water use,

00:05:46.280 we have to ask ourselves how that works.

00:05:49.640 We know that we're in a climate emergency

00:05:51.540 and we should absolutely be decreasing water use

00:05:54.000 and creating with sustainable materials.

00:05:56.640 But if you're a brand or a fashion company,

00:05:59.100 you're still selling us a product, right?

00:06:00.840 And your goal is to increase sales for a profit.

00:06:04.960 So when I think about that,

00:06:07.460 I now have more what's considered sustainable clothing in my closet, but we haven't gotten

00:06:12.920 to the root cause of consumerism or capitalism.

00:06:17.400 Unethical working conditions are the same.

00:06:20.020 We hear about companies who are being transparent and where they manufacture, which is great,

00:06:26.200 but that transparency doesn't change the fact that the fashion industry runs on overproduction

00:06:32.080 and overconsumption.

00:06:33.780 So we have workers who are ethically laboring in a system that's still unsustainable, and so the fallacy is what's currently considered sustainability in the fashion industrial complex is not sustainability. It can't be.

00:06:49.860 It doesn't take into consideration history or how the fashion industry is situated in capitalism.

00:06:57.160 And at current, sustainability in the fashion industrial complex doesn't have, it doesn't have the range to truly be sustainable.

00:07:04.620 At this point, in my opinion, what we consider sustainability in the fashion industry is it's lip service, it's PR, it's marketing for consumers and what's considered greenwashing.

00:07:19.860 I completely agree with everything you said. And I'm so happy that you brought to light some of

00:07:25.960 these issues because the PR and marketing greenwashing just feels like it's bombarding

00:07:35.400 us every day. I mean, anytime you look at a fashion website or social media, it's just,

00:07:41.040 oh there's so much rhetoric around sustainability and and I even the fabric stuff it just kind of

00:07:50.440 drives me nuts so yeah thank you and I'd like to explore this topic a bit further in terms of

00:07:56.520 revealing to what extent sustainability has really become nothing more than a marketing ploy

00:08:02.580 so for instance IBM published a 2020 consumer report indicating that eight out of ten respondents

00:08:10.240 factor sustainability when purchasing. So of course, it isn't a coincidence that other research

00:08:17.680 has found 125% increase in new products arriving online in the US and UK being labeled as quote

00:08:26.880 sustainable since 2017. And this trend isn't exclusive to environmental concerns. We've also

00:08:34.780 seen how in the past two years, many corporations and labels quickly pivoted to supporting racial

00:08:41.440 justice. So as someone who is paying attention to how the industry exploits activist agendas,

00:08:47.760 can you elaborate on the trajectory of the fashion industrial complex in terms of marketing

00:08:53.260 and whether or not any of this marketing is actually authentic?

00:08:57.940 Yeah, yeah. It's very similar to the greenwashing issue as I see it. So companies are now highlighting racial justice issues and it's woke washing, right? They're considered woke brands or woke companies.

00:09:14.920 And I believe that the fashion industrial complex hasn't even grappled with the fact that the industry was built with slave labor, that it was built on Native and Indigenous genocide.

00:09:27.780 So this pivot to racial justice is interesting, right, to put nicely.

00:09:34.460 The fact that we have diversity, equity, and inclusion issues just in representation in fashion, this is just representation.

00:09:41.360 So just seeing a Black designer get mainstream attention, even though the industry has profited off of Black labor, Black culture, Black aesthetics, just seeing Native Indigenous models on the runway, even though the industry operates on Native and Indigenous lands, and also appropriates Native and Indigenous culture.

00:10:02.140 marginalized representation in the industry is still egregious so for companies to be saying

00:10:08.660 that they are for racial justice i i mean i'd like to see this right um and i don't mean just

00:10:15.660 putting like black people or native indigenous people in your campaigns um yes do that but

00:10:22.280 the justice if truly authentic would be reparative and restorative um if companies were really

00:10:29.820 interested in racial justice, they'd be seeking to repair harm redone that has been done. And they

00:10:36.900 should be coming up with some form of reconciliation with communities in which the

00:10:42.740 harm has been done. And I don't know of many corporations who are doing that work without

00:10:48.420 also seeking to commodify and make a profit from those groups as well. So no, I don't think that

00:10:55.800 this marketing is authentic, especially because marketing is promoting and selling goods. And

00:11:02.180 to me, you can't sell racial justice. You can't sell that as a campaign. You can only sell the

00:11:08.280 illusion or the idea of it. I really appreciate that differentiation. And I'd like to transition

00:11:17.720 our conversation to the very material makeup of the fashion industry. I've read that over 60%

00:11:24.440 of our clothing is polymer-based, and we use approximately 70 million barrels of oil a year

00:11:31.640 to make polyester fibers. Yet, we continue to see many brands gain notoriety for recycling

00:11:39.400 plastic water bottles into fabric or upcycling fleece materials, etc. Now, I understand that

00:11:45.820 materials make up just a portion of why the fashion industry is so wasteful, but before we

00:11:52.140 delve into the problems with natural fibers, I wonder if you could shed some light on the

00:11:57.580 intricacies of so-called recycled textiles. It's a complex idea, this recycled textiles or

00:12:06.000 using what you said, like plastic water bottles in fabric. And I think these are all

00:12:13.440 great steps towards a sustainable future in fashion. But again, I don't know if the industry

00:12:23.780 is truly doing this to operate in a way that's sustainable. I think it's all marketing. It's all

00:12:34.520 a ploy because consumers are more, I guess, social justice oriented. They want items or to

00:12:42.380 be affiliated with items, to purchase items that are doing some good or the appearance of doing

00:12:48.440 some good. The fashion industry, I think, though, isn't doing it for that reason. They're doing it

00:12:58.040 for profit. Every time I think about the fashion industry's use of sustainability,

00:13:06.120 I think of author she's an author and activist uh Tony K Bambara and she she wrote in her work

00:13:14.560 the salt eaters and there's a quote something like are you sure you want to be well just to

00:13:20.200 be sure you're ready to be healed because wholeness is not a trifling matter and when I think of

00:13:26.100 sustainability in the industry I think of that quote because it's not ready the the fashion

00:13:33.120 industrial complex isn't fully committed to being healed. Sustainability, as we've been talking

00:13:39.040 about it, like environmental justice or racial justice. And to me, there's a healing process

00:13:44.560 that needs to be done and to happen in the fashion industry. It starts with acknowledgement,

00:13:50.600 which many of these companies who are integrating these recycled fabrics into their clothing,

00:13:57.900 they're not willing to do that. They're not willing to know the history. They're not willing

00:14:02.400 to educate consumers on that history. And it's evident in the way that we've seen them respond

00:14:08.720 to criticism around their sustainability efforts. So I do think that using what we call green

00:14:17.080 materials or sustainable materials is a step forward, but I don't think it is a whole and true

00:14:25.360 step that the fashion industry is taking in sustainability yeah this inquiry on the deeper

00:14:32.940 healing underneath the action steps is really it's just so important and I see it in every avenue of

00:14:41.980 the crises we're facing and I'm really happy you spoke to that and I initially came across your

00:14:50.860 work via your writing on the history of cotton. And in an article titled The Legacy of the U.S.

00:14:57.700 Cotton Economy, you write, quote, the history of cotton in the United States is complex and

00:15:04.320 racialized. To fully understand cotton from a historical perspective, both European colonization

00:15:11.060 in the Americas and African enslavement must be contextualized. The history of cotton in the U.S.

00:15:18.340 includes the hoarding of native land resources and the exploitation of free slave labor.

00:15:24.960 Additionally, from a socio-historical perspective, the legacy of cotton presents a record of human

00:15:31.580 activities and the effects of those activities. For example, chattel slavery in the U.S. was

00:15:38.040 primarily used for cotton production, meaning that human beings were treated as property,

00:15:43.360 sometimes worked to death and were grossly beaten and mistreated in the pursuit of cotton

00:15:49.220 end quote

00:15:50.420 i understand that this could be a whole episode in itself and i encourage listeners to explore

00:16:02.320 slow factories course a history of cotton instructed by you and teju adisa farrar

00:16:08.620 But for the purpose of our conversation, I wonder if you could speak a bit about cotton as another example of the PR behind fashion and the greenwashing of materials that we might naively consider to be less harmful than their synthetic counterparts.

00:16:27.480 yeah so the the PR for cotton um in the fashion industry has has counted on erasure when when

00:16:39.100 it's really considered it's evident that the history of cotton in the U.S. includes like you

00:16:44.360 said the hoarding of native land resources this exploitation of free slave labor and most of us

00:16:51.220 are familiar with in our history class is the Trail of Tears, which was in 1838, the removal

00:16:59.220 of Native and Indigenous peoples from a region in the South that was known as the Black Belt,

00:17:06.440 and resettling them in what was considered Indian territory, and it later became Oklahoma.

00:17:13.180 And this was because of cotton. Native Americans were living on what was probably the richest soil

00:17:20.120 for cotton production and their removal created a scramble to settle these lands and raise cotton

00:17:28.940 and this led to one of the greatest periods in economic expansion and profitability in American

00:17:34.860 history but we don't know that about cotton right the general public doesn't know that information

00:17:40.200 also when we think of slave auctions in history in the domestic U.S. it's considered the second

00:17:48.100 slave trade. It was to redistribute free labor, slave labor in the states, because there was an

00:17:55.540 unprecedented growth of cotton in the industry, globally and in the U.S. And the U.S. wanted to

00:18:01.640 be involved in the global economy of cotton, so it had to expand this cotton economy. And so we have

00:18:07.760 this second slave trade that happened domestically. And most of us in the public are unaware of this

00:18:14.420 history, and that's because of the commercialization of cotton in the fashion industry. To sell cotton,

00:18:21.820 it has to be appealing, and that means disregarding these ugly truths, the true history of the fiber.

00:18:30.820 Now, cotton is considered or associated with fabric of our lives, right? It's natural, it's

00:18:37.240 eco-friendly, but even that's not entirely true. We know that it takes significant water to produce

00:18:44.200 cotton, except if it's organic cotton, in which case there's less water use, but organic cotton

00:18:52.080 yields less as well. So is it really less water if we have to make more of it to make a t-shirt?

00:19:01.400 So there's all of these hidden, this hidden history, this hidden knowledge around cotton.

00:19:07.820 cotton's image has been created on the omissions and mistruths and i'm not saying all this to

00:19:16.160 vilify cotton itself because as a descendant of u.s slaves i have a very deep connection and love

00:19:23.080 for cotton as a fiber and a fabric but i say all this to critique the capitalist system in which

00:19:29.540 we live and operate in, and to expose that there is a history behind all of this PR.

00:19:39.840 Well, I'd like to go a step further and ask you about why a transition to organic materials

00:19:47.580 like cotton, hemp, or bamboo isn't enough. And I see so many so-called ethical companies

00:19:55.380 boasting the use of natural fibers like cotton without recognizing that we're facing a water

00:20:02.640 deficit future you know you were you were getting into this where it's just preposterous to think

00:20:08.860 that we can continue to harvest more cotton to uphold an industry that produces over 80 billion

00:20:14.120 pieces of clothing per year especially given that cotton typically grows in dry environments to

00:20:19.680 begin with. So I'd love if you could elaborate on the requirements of natural fibers from an

00:20:26.060 environmental standpoint, or just perhaps any thoughts you might have in response to high-end

00:20:32.980 labels who are seeking to make a name for themselves off of natural fibers. Yeah, I have

00:20:39.460 more to say about the high-end labels that are doing this. And I think they are starting to

00:20:48.200 make a name for themselves off of natural fibers because of consumer preference, right? Not because

00:20:55.180 they're particularly concerned with sustainability as a justice movement or they're concerned with

00:21:00.040 the water deficit, but consumers have fiber and fabric preferences. Since consumers are more

00:21:06.760 interested in sustainability, eco-friendliness, green, natural, or at least, like I said before,

00:21:14.420 wanting to appear more interested in this, they are of course demanding that labels also appear

00:21:20.900 sustainable. And as we just talked about on cotton's unsustainability as a natural fiber,

00:21:27.940 other natural fibers have the same problems. And I think also the problem is cost with many

00:21:33.000 consumers. There's the critique, which I have, that sustainable clothing is too expensive for

00:21:38.480 the average consumer right and so high-end labels who cater to this higher price point

00:21:43.440 this higher price point of consumers can can use this expensiveness to their advantage by keeping

00:21:50.260 sustainability an exclusive aspect of the of the industry by leveraging the use of natural fibers

00:21:56.600 so again i think this is all it's all a profit motive

00:22:00.400 We'll be right back.

00:22:30.400 Let's go and feel

00:22:36.160 It's respiration

00:22:45.760 You turn on the clouds that come without resisting

00:22:50.600 Iluminação

00:22:52.920 Olhos closed, they won't be able to see

00:22:58.100 Yeah, I'm thinking about an article written by Celine Simon Vernon of Slow Factory,

00:23:23.080 where Celine shares, quote, source map has traced supply chains for most major clothing and apparel

00:23:30.740 manufacturers, and the data mapping it provides shows that world trade routes are mostly the same

00:23:36.900 as they were 150 years ago at the height of European colonial exploitation. In the same way

00:23:44.200 that colonized nations provided cheap sugar, chocolate, coffee, and fruit to the West,

00:23:49.780 developing nations now provide cheap semi-disposable clothes to the west and global economic upper

00:23:57.440 classes end quote and i know you're vocal as well about the realities that fashion cannot

00:24:05.900 simply be discussed in terms of environmental impact it must be acknowledged as a loud echo

00:24:12.400 of colonial conquest not just in terms of extraction of labor and resources or the outsourcing

00:24:19.580 of pollutants and illness, but also in terms of culture and appropriation. So can you talk about

00:24:27.760 whether or not you think this sort of recognition would reorient how companies and designers

00:24:33.740 take accountability? I do think that the recognition of colonialism would reorient

00:24:42.000 both companies and designers. I really do, but that would mean centering things like decolonization

00:24:51.260 and critical race theory over the Western conceptions that we currently have in the

00:24:57.800 fashion industrial complex. It also means dismantling capitalism, which is racialized.

00:25:06.100 And so reorienting the industry to these truths is the first steps in reparative and restorative 0.75

00:25:11.380 justice for the environment and beyond. But I think that recognition piece is the industry is

00:25:18.440 not willing to do that. Yeah, I remember you're mentioning earlier in the conversation,

00:25:25.940 the willingness to heal and not being ready. And I would love to just explore a bit more.

00:25:36.740 I mean, I know we've been talking about why you think they're not ready. If there's anything else

00:25:41.200 you could say on that. I'm really curious. And then the second part to that question

00:25:46.700 would be, could you describe what a willing fashion industry would look like? What would

00:25:53.980 being ready look like? And what would a truly healing process look like? Yeah, I just would

00:26:05.500 love to hear how you could see this manifested. It would look like de-centering all of the white 1.00

00:26:14.340 heteronormative voices that are currently at the forefront of fashion. It would look like 0.67

00:26:21.980 listening to Native Indigenous voices. It would look like listening to Black activists. And doing

00:26:32.220 that is not profitable. And so I fear that although the industry is discussing sustainability,

00:26:45.040 is using it in marketing, and is seemingly interested in doing the work around it,

00:26:52.400 that giving up that much power means giving up also the profit and consumption aspect of the

00:27:00.900 industry, which would pretty much topple the industry as we know it. And so what we'd have

00:27:06.820 is something new. I don't think it can be achieved in our current structure.

00:27:14.880 Yeah, I could see that. Would you mind imagining with us what this something new would be?

00:27:22.680 the something new would be if if it could be conscious consumption if it could be

00:27:32.940 so that means like intentionally purchasing things that we need that we love not just

00:27:40.100 on a whim right it means that like I said we're we're aiming our efforts and supporting and

00:27:50.080 uplifting environmental and racial justice activists. We're taking our cues from Native 0.99

00:27:56.440 and Indigenous peoples. We're centering Black voices in fashion. The new idea that I have, 0.60

00:28:06.520 it's not even like a fashion system or a fashion industry. It's, I guess, Indigenous sovereignty

00:28:13.320 and black liberation it's it's how we get to sustainability and it's justice and although I

00:28:22.680 have like grand ideas and and words for it I don't know what that something new would be called

00:28:33.780 i don't know

00:28:36.740 yeah i think about the educational element and really weaving justice into how we consume

00:28:52.340 understanding the histories so much deeper and yeah buying what we need and what we actually

00:29:01.800 have value for because I think too with the fashion industrial complex so much of it is

00:29:08.720 like everything else in capitalism endless growth so there has to be a new spring collection fall

00:29:14.140 collection you know there's always new new new more more more and it's the pressure to buy more

00:29:19.800 more more and then how are we really valuing the things we have it's almost as if things that maybe

00:29:26.580 we're meaningful become obsolete because the next season's clothing or whatever it is or

00:29:34.220 it seems more special and and so it's almost like us as consumers can get into these traps

00:29:42.060 of the next thing to buy rather than valuing what we do have as these special

00:29:50.680 objects of culture and expression and also need you know I live in a very cold climate like I do

00:30:01.680 need clothing absolutely you know an almost you know a pretty much hairless body but it's like I

00:30:08.360 can't actually survive as a animal creature in the environment I live in without something on

00:30:15.020 my body so um yeah it's like getting back to or I don't know if it's even getting back but I

00:30:23.640 think about when folks spend a lot more time and had to be a lot slower when creating clothing

00:30:35.840 whether for necessity adornment spiritual practice and how different that relationship was

00:30:43.260 to what we wore versus now right yeah just i'm thinking about back to our initial conversation

00:30:52.520 around sustainability and just thinking about how we as individuals you know maybe we can be

00:30:59.620 sustainable but corporations just can't and within that recognition it would seem that

00:31:07.600 buyer awareness is our best bet, despite the reality that many argue that the burden needs

00:31:14.380 to be placed upon corporations and brands. And I just wonder what your response is to this,

00:31:20.300 as well as the reality that mainstream media and academic institutions and companies will never

00:31:26.620 commit to changing our patterns of consumption because it inherently weakens their power in

00:31:32.160 society, which is so much of what you've been saying. Yeah. I do believe that corporations

00:31:42.100 and businesses have to be those ones changing the patterns of consumption. And I think individual

00:31:52.060 awareness is crucial to our sustainability efforts, particularly as you just said, it relates

00:31:57.680 to education and fashion programs across the world to consumers, it should definitely be an

00:32:03.100 integral part of education and include all the dimensions of sustainability, not just

00:32:09.580 environmental or ecological awareness. So that historical and encompassing education that we've

00:32:16.360 been, we've been talking about all of the racial associations with that for sure. And we can,

00:32:22.100 we can do our part but as individuals we didn't make the mess that we're in right this has been

00:32:29.580 a systemic issue for over hundreds of years so awareness has to go beyond the individual

00:32:35.760 I think it has to permeate our culture and it has to become become the standard and yes we we start

00:32:44.140 with the individual reading and research. And I mean, I personally started my journey

00:32:51.500 in sustainability by reading about capitalism. And in the historical foundations of that,

00:33:00.360 I recently read the Afro-Minimalist Guide to Living with Less by Christine Platt.

00:33:07.240 So buyer awareness on the individual level, that depends though on the individual having some

00:33:13.680 epiphany and wanting to seek information out. And I guess if we're relying on us to do that work

00:33:25.280 and not them, them being corporations and businesses, how do we get people interested

00:33:33.060 in sustainability widely? We have to get more of us talking about it. And that means that we need

00:33:40.740 representatives or delegates in all of our communities talking about sustainability,

00:33:46.240 but the sustainability industry is progressive around environmental issues, but it's not

00:33:55.720 very inclusive, you know, if you've noticed. So I think that the individual changing of patterns

00:34:04.420 of consumption that that can work but the how the industry is set up now it excludes a lot of

00:34:14.040 a lot of individuals and so we we have to be having more conversations around this

00:34:34.420 Thank you.

00:35:04.420 yeah absolutely and i'm thinking about those folks who live in cities and suburbs and

00:35:31.080 I think that there's just a whole other set of pressures to participate in fast fashion and

00:35:37.420 rabid consumption as so many of our physical spaces have been commodified like shopping malls

00:35:44.540 for example so just thinking about what you were saying about um people in our community

00:35:51.000 guiding us and teaching us but perhaps even more so we're living in a period where

00:36:01.240 this commodification is even stronger in the digital realm

00:36:05.720 so what are your thoughts on influencer culture when it comes to the fashion industrial complex

00:36:12.980 so um influencer culture via social media we now have uh shopping in the in the palm of our hands

00:36:25.440 right through e-commerce and so we can we have the ability to buy whatever whenever um we want

00:36:33.100 with a click so we don't have to go to this physical space anymore which on a one hand is

00:36:39.160 you could say is good like we're not abusing the land anymore with with large shopping malls we can

00:36:44.860 now we can now buy more easily but that also means that we're consuming more and again it's easier

00:36:53.020 than ever and I think that social media and influencers have contribute to creating like

00:36:59.560 this this perfect environment for fast fashion to thrive which causes greater ecological and human

00:37:06.940 rights issues like i i think when um i talk about social media and influencers and fashion of um

00:37:14.600 this trend of fashion halls for example and um this is when an influencer or a content creator

00:37:21.780 tries on reviews and and shows off large quantities of clothing that they get from

00:37:27.400 a retailer and they do this all at once in their in their content um and this is obviously

00:37:33.440 encouraging overconsumption right um and i know that there are also sustainable fashion influencers

00:37:40.680 that are on on social media talking about uh upcycling and and shopping secondhand things

00:37:47.200 like that so hopefully that continues um because because we don't want to encourage that that

00:37:55.420 overconsumption especially with the the the generation that is using social media all the

00:38:01.700 time um right I just because the social media operates in tandem with the fashion industrial

00:38:08.920 complex um I don't know what that what that transition looks like from those fashion halls

00:38:16.080 to over and over consumption to the more sustainable sustainable influencer and content

00:38:21.480 creators. Yeah, I know that there's been some people who have been vocally frustrated that

00:38:34.000 social media has become a shopping app to some people, you know. I've heard a lot of people on

00:38:43.920 Instagram feel frustrated that they used to go on for more meaningful content or personal content

00:38:51.020 And now not only is it the sponsored posts, but also it's just that's what they're seeing in their feed. I have mixed feelings about that. I think with the large brands, it is problematic being bombarded anywhere you go.

00:39:12.300 whether it's on a website or social media, your email, anytime you open this machine with a

00:39:18.720 screen, you're being sold so much. And, you know, if you click on one pair of pants, you know that

00:39:27.040 you're going to be getting a ton of ads for pants or whatever it is. So the data collection, I mean,

00:39:32.380 there's a lot of problems. Now, on the other hand, for small makers, I think it is a really

00:39:39.660 potentially important source of keeping them afloat to be able to use these

00:39:45.920 apps to sell directly to consumers and maybe it's maybe the relationship is even

00:39:54.260 different than just consumer in that sense because small makers it feels a bit more personal so i

00:40:01.060 think yeah you know i see there's i see both sides to that but with internet shopping

00:40:10.720 even before the beginning of covid i think it seemed like maybe the more ecological

00:40:17.720 choice because you could stay at home you didn't need to drive to a parking lot and get out of your

00:40:25.780 car and then, you know, all the things that maybe we thought would be burning more fossil fuels.

00:40:32.240 But I think that has really backlashed. And I have a sense that so much internet shopping is

00:40:43.280 actually making it just that much easier to buy things all the time because the stores never

00:40:50.320 close. And so many of us always have our devices and are always connected to some type of internet

00:40:57.240 or service. And so I just wonder if you have any thoughts on, yeah, just viewing the difference

00:41:04.960 between brick and mortar shops and actually going and even creating some relationships with stores

00:41:12.420 versus this 24-hour online shopping that I believe so many of us have started to transition into.

00:41:22.020 Yeah, no, I totally agree with you about the e-commerce shopping and merchandise being at

00:41:31.160 the palm of our hands all the time. I mean, and then we have to factor in like shipping all of

00:41:36.200 those all of those goods right that's gonna that's gonna use resources we also have to think

00:41:42.020 about like workers who are now having to fulfill all of these orders um especially in in instances

00:41:50.260 where you know it's 24 7 the the shop doesn't close and I've I've personally tried not to um

00:41:59.700 to purchase online from especially like big corporations or big companies during the pandemic

00:42:07.660 in an effort to support local um local shops who were getting into the e-commerce business because

00:42:17.080 of of the pandemic so I I agree with you um but I I think that because of this because of COVID

00:42:28.660 that we'll continue to see a shift from brick and mortar to e-commerce.

00:42:35.080 It's just a matter of us as conscious consumers being more, I guess, careful with who we're

00:42:46.500 purchasing from and kind of prioritizing family owned or small businesses that we have a

00:42:57.080 relationship to.

00:42:58.660 Mm hmm. Yeah, really thankful that you brought up the exploitation of workers and the shipping, because I think that is something that is, I think, potentially becoming more of an issue that some of us are aware of.

00:43:18.140 But it's as if these people are not just expendable, but almost completely erased from our minds when we're online shopping or e-commerce shopping.

00:43:32.480 And it just makes me also think about with textiles and fabrics and creation, you know, the creation of the materials for the clothing, how much of the process is forgotten and erased from the consumer's mindset when buying something.

00:44:02.480 And I think I remember years ago seeing an image of a town somewhere, I believe, in Bangladesh.

00:44:15.620 and the dyes for the fabrics were just legally allowed the once the dyes were

00:44:28.140 washed through the fabrics were legally allowed to just be dumped into the waterways of this town

00:44:34.300 completely polluting this this land and the people who lived there and who were

00:44:45.840 I think in so many ways forced to have these jobs and so I just have a lot of trouble in my heart 0.65

00:44:55.380 thinking about the erasure of all the people a part of the supply chain

00:45:02.900 so that some of us can have another pair of shoes that we didn't need to begin with

00:45:10.060 so yeah i wonder if there's anything that you could share that you understand about

00:45:17.940 the supply chain and the processes and how it's impacting and also erasing humans from

00:45:27.560 like erasing the experience of these humans from the end consumer my expertise isn't in

00:45:36.520 supply chain um but i know from colleagues that um that like you said the human the human element

00:45:46.040 of making our our clothing has has pretty much been erased um because we think of the fashion

00:45:58.620 industry or the making of our clothing is being mechanized like a machine is doing that work

00:46:04.300 um and I think we forget that people are are interceders there like people are are working

00:46:13.780 the machines, people are a part of that process. And every time I think of how we're so disconnected

00:46:24.260 from the human element of our clothing, I go back to the healing process. And I think you

00:46:32.220 mentioned it, how we don't have that certain connection to our clothes because we have so

00:46:39.000 many of them or because we were constantly able to discard them or to and to get more so

00:46:46.940 i i agree that that that human element is completely lost and i i blame it on this need

00:46:57.460 to to heal as consumers in in a system that doesn't want us to to feel that human connection

00:47:07.400 We'll be right back.

00:47:37.400 Vamos en busca del agua, dulce aguita, nos purifican el corazón

00:47:48.020 Vamos en busca del agua, dulce aguita, nos purifican el corazón

00:47:58.420 yes yes and this reminds me of another topic i've heard you speak about in context

00:48:16.800 to sustainability and fashion is how black history is explicitly erased from sustainability

00:48:23.020 narratives, which is certainly true outside of fashion as well, if we think in the mainstream

00:48:29.280 portrayals around agriculture and land stewardship and ecological knowledge in this country.

00:48:37.140 But, you know, however, in terms of the fashion industrial complex,

00:48:41.440 can you speak more to the ways in which the industry purposefully hides this history?

00:48:46.680 Sure. Like the broader fashion industry, the sustainable fashion industry does not do enough

00:48:55.540 to provide equal opportunity and representation for all. When someone hears the word sustainable

00:49:02.860 fashion, typically you get images of, I don't know, slim white women in natural backgrounds

00:49:10.940 um is is kind of the the marketing that we get around sustainability and the mainstream voices 1.00

00:49:17.800 that hold the most weight are are are white and they're middle to upper class um they they often

00:49:25.500 ignore the marginalized voices who have been doing sustainability and environmental justice work for

00:49:32.320 for decades um and this is because i think the industry is built on very specific ethics so the

00:49:41.000 sustainable the sustainable fashion industry wants to to use sustainable materials oh we're interested

00:49:48.080 in cleaning the oceans we want to recycle we don't want to use cheap labor but what does all of that

00:49:54.100 mean in terms of diversity equity and inclusion which is fundamentally the most basic ethical

00:50:01.900 practice of all things right and equality and sustainability and environmental justice if we're

00:50:09.820 to to be truly inclusive has to be explored in terms of pay um education rights as well as

00:50:19.820 visibility so so who's getting um attention around these issues and then crucially anti-oppressive

00:50:27.760 practices. The broader fashion industry is profit driven and sustainability narratives should really

00:50:35.280 be cutting ties from that framework. We in sustainability should be incorporating racial

00:50:41.280 justice, class justice, collective activism to reach true sustainability objectives. And so if

00:50:48.200 that means leaving what we consider the fashion industry as we know it behind, then that's what

00:50:54.620 needs to happen yeah absolutely oh gosh well there's so much in this conversation to be teased

00:51:07.500 out for all of us listening and to continue to learn more and educate ourselves because this is

00:51:17.160 a topic we can't get away from. It's so tied into our everyday existence. And yeah, I guess

00:51:27.740 as we're coming to a close, I wonder if you could speak to the parts of fashion and expression

00:51:37.560 and culture that excites you or that you feel drawn to, um, the, yeah, the beauty of

00:51:48.280 clothing and, um, how you, yeah, if you believe that it's also a part of our human experience

00:52:00.680 that we could have a more beautiful relationship with or, yeah, it's just some, something along

00:52:07.440 those lines, I wanted to ask you. Yeah, I for sure believe that fashion, clothing, dress is

00:52:17.020 definitely a part of our human experience. My favorite parts of fashion and dress are the

00:52:25.500 stories that are associated with them. So I came to fashion through my grandmother, and I love

00:52:34.900 hearing specific stories about clothing about um the story behind clothing right where where it

00:52:43.120 came from who wore it before before you got it those type of stories really they to me give a

00:52:51.500 spiritual connection to um a piece of garment because it's it's connected to someone greater

00:52:57.720 than me or before me those those are my favorite favorite parts of fashion and i've seen more and

00:53:04.720 more of those stories and more and more of that close-knit relationship between clothing and

00:53:10.320 spirituality and humanness as the sustainability industry or the fashion industry has taken on

00:53:21.240 sustainability. So I'm not completely despondent and pessimistic about where fashion goes from

00:53:34.300 here. I think there's a vast and imaginative world out there that we can get to. I'm just

00:53:45.600 wrapped up in the history and the work to do that. Well, Shamira, thank you so much

00:53:54.320 for your time. And I just wanted to ask one last question. And if listeners want to connect with

00:54:02.160 you further and continue learning from you what's the best way to connect with you um the best way

00:54:10.160 to connect to me is um on social media so instagram and twitter i am shamira s-h-a-m-i-r-a

00:54:18.420 dot deanne d-e-a-n-n-e so shamira deanne and then um my portfolio website is shamiracovington.com

00:54:27.880 wonderful okay well yeah I think this has been such an important conversation as it impacts

00:54:38.820 each and every one of us and we all have a role to play to shift our culture and not give in to

00:54:47.220 the corporate overlords who are trying to just do real strange stuff um to say it lightly

00:54:57.660 so thank you again yes no thank you

00:55:01.840 thank you for listening to for the wild podcast the music you heard today was by itasca

00:55:14.080 ley line and rajna swamanathan for the wild is created by ayana young ali constantine erica

00:55:21.660 Akram, Emily Guerra, Francesca Glassbell, Julia Jackson, and Priya Superwall.

For The Wild - December 22, 2021

SHA’MIRA COVINGTON on Healing the Fashion Industrial Complex ⧸265

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