In Bed With The Right - September 19, 2026


Episode 154 -- Live from San Francisco, it's How to Become a Silicon Valley Creep (in 10 Easy Steps), Part 2

Topics
Episode 153 -- Live from San Francisco, it's How to Become a Silicon Valley Creep (in 10 Easy Steps), Part 1 Episode 155 -- Elon Musk with Ben Tarnoff

Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 6 minutes

Words per minute

179.0

Word count

11,976

Sentence count

759

Harmful content

Misogyny

22

sentences flagged

Toxicity

107

sentences flagged

Hate speech

47

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
00:00:00.000 Hello, I'm Adrian Dobb, and whether I like it or not, I am in bed with the right.
00:00:09.820 Can I just tell you guys, we do the opening bit for this show so often.
00:00:15.080 I've just done like five takes where I've messed it up and I've waited for Moira to
00:00:19.220 like chime in and say that she's Moira Donegan, which she will be in about a minute.
00:00:23.660 But I'm just recording this intro by myself here for the second part of our wonderful live show that we recorded on August 27th, 2026 at Swedish American Hall here in beautiful San Francisco, How to Become a Silicon Valley Creep in 10 Easy Steps.
00:00:40.100 Now, if you are just starting your journey into becoming a Silicon Valley creep with this, be forewarned.
00:00:46.360 You are skipping a bunch of the steps.
00:00:48.960 So do maybe go over to the other episode, and then you can come back to this one.
00:00:54.260 I also want to plug my book, which this live show was sort of based on, What Tech Calls Governing,
00:00:59.460 which is out with Stanford University Press now for the very affordable price of $16.
00:01:03.980 dollars. Well, with that out of the way, please enjoy the second part of our wonderful live
00:01:10.560 episode, How to Become a Silicon Valley Creep in 10 Easy Steps.
00:01:19.120 Well done. I'm starting to worry that we have nothing to teach these people. I feel like I
00:01:26.740 I speak creep.
00:01:29.400 But that might bring us now to step five.
00:01:33.760 Step five, it's very important.
00:01:37.100 Encounter mortality and definitely flinch.
00:01:40.240 You have to reject death.
00:01:42.820 Just outright say, not for me.
00:01:45.520 Yeah, and you also, of course,
00:01:47.120 like it can't be like poetic.
00:01:48.560 It can't be like rage, rage against the dying of the light.
00:01:51.060 It has to be like, I got a system, you guys. 0.96
00:01:53.740 i must put a thing in my butt and that way i'm not gonna die uh that has to be it right uh and 0.58
00:02:00.740 in fact we're gonna have a second game we need a second volunteer but let me first tell you what 0.93
00:02:05.060 your game is because this is a it's a tricky one it's gonna be about this man brian johnson
00:02:10.440 you're all familiar with him he's the guy who's not gonna die spoiler alert definitely gonna die
00:02:15.400 um he is at the very least doing a lot of press about how he's not gonna die the least dyingest
00:02:22.060 man in history. And this is going to be about, is this a thing that Brian Johnson does in order
00:02:29.180 to live forever? I think we have a volunteer. We have a volunteer. Come on up. Well done, sir.
00:02:37.060 Thank you. Now, before you embark on this journey with us, it's a little hard to tell for sure
00:02:45.440 whether or not Brian Johnson doesn't do it. So if you want to argue with us and tell us no,
00:02:50.380 So, like, we perused this website, which has a whole system.
00:02:53.820 We looked through all the different articles.
00:02:56.220 But it's possible, of course, that that does not exhaust the full range of, like, he spends, like, four hours pumping himself full of stuff.
00:03:04.380 If you know more, feel free to argue.
00:03:06.760 But this is based on, you know, about two hours of research.
00:03:11.040 Okay, is this or is this not a thing that Brian Johnson does in order to live forever?
00:03:16.280 Alkaline water filtration system.
00:03:18.140 Oh, definitely.
00:03:18.900 Yeah, easy, easy piece.
00:03:20.060 They're just warming you up.
00:03:21.400 We're starting off with the slow pitch over the plate.
00:03:24.140 His website notes that it's only $1,200, a steal at half the price.
00:03:29.200 Semen analysis. 0.85
00:03:30.840 Yes, unfortunately, I've heard his tales. 1.00
00:03:33.920 You got it.
00:03:34.820 You got it.
00:03:35.440 I mean, what are you going to do?
00:03:39.040 Stool tracking.
00:03:40.720 Also, yes.
00:03:41.500 Yes.
00:03:42.060 I mean, like, if it comes out of you.
00:03:43.600 I don't know if he stool weighs.
00:03:45.500 I think Tim Ferriss does that, but I don't know if.
00:03:47.540 Is it a weight?
00:03:48.160 Is it a competition?
00:03:49.600 Yeah, yeah.
00:03:50.240 Is it color analysis?
00:03:52.240 Is it?
00:03:52.780 No, no, I think he weighs.
00:03:54.160 There's a whole poop weighing thing in the four-hour body.
00:03:56.140 We should really dwell on this with everybody here
00:03:58.960 right after their dinner.
00:04:00.160 This is a frequent thing, apparently.
00:04:02.180 Totally normal.
00:04:02.920 Everyone's doing it.
00:04:03.680 Erection detector. 0.98
00:04:05.180 Yes, it's all sex. 0.98
00:04:06.160 That is correct.
00:04:07.980 Because otherwise, how would he know?
00:04:10.300 Yeah.
00:04:13.440 Wow.
00:04:15.880 Roastmaster Moradon again.
00:04:17.100 I love it.
00:04:18.160 All right.
00:04:19.080 Raw milk.
00:04:21.100 I'm going to say no.
00:04:22.240 That is correct.
00:04:23.420 You spotted it.
00:04:26.920 And I'm right about that, right?
00:04:28.520 Like, he does seem more science-focused than that.
00:04:31.140 He wants a doctor to explain it to him,
00:04:32.960 and the doctor will be like,
00:04:34.160 Brian, don't put that in your body. 1.00
00:04:35.640 You're going to be shitting for days, 1.00
00:04:37.220 and you're not going to be able to weigh it. 0.99
00:04:40.560 Only if he wasn't drinking the raw milk.
00:04:42.920 That's true, yeah.
00:04:43.480 That's true.
00:04:43.960 Maybe he'll put it in an enema or something, yeah.
00:04:46.820 No food four hours before bed.
00:04:49.080 50-50, I'm going to say yes.
00:04:53.500 Yes!
00:04:54.860 Which, like, we're going to comment on this later,
00:04:57.280 but, like, the sheer joylessness of this existence.
00:05:01.000 He goes to bed at 7.30, I think.
00:05:03.400 Like, this is like, so you're done at 2.30?
00:05:07.180 You're at 3.30?
00:05:08.780 Oh, God.
00:05:09.120 I, like, if I had to live this way,
00:05:12.280 I'd be like, can death come sooner, actually?
00:05:15.380 Yeah, like, was any of this worth it?
00:05:17.640 And I think we have a few more.
00:05:20.060 Hyperbaric oxygen therapy.
00:05:23.660 I feel like at this point you're tricking me,
00:05:25.880 but I'm still going to say yes.
00:05:27.220 You are correct, yeah.
00:05:28.800 It's honestly hard to find things that he doesn't do.
00:05:32.940 Avoiding alarm clocks.
00:05:34.680 Now, this is a tough one.
00:05:36.500 No, he wouldn't sleep in.
00:05:38.420 He does avoid alarm clocks.
00:05:42.200 It's interesting.
00:05:43.300 And actually, on this one, I sort of agreed with him.
00:05:45.300 He's like, oh, it's bad to be, like, ripped out of your sleep.
00:05:49.400 I'm like, yeah.
00:05:50.080 I mean, every morning, I'm like, it's bad to be ripped out of my sleep.
00:05:52.980 So I'm like, so like a broken clock, he's right once a day,
00:05:56.780 and you are wrong only once.
00:05:59.040 It's a rare occurrence.
00:06:01.780 But here, Snort crushed us aspirin twice a day.
00:06:06.080 No, no.
00:06:07.120 That's right.
00:06:07.580 How did you spot it?
00:06:08.600 Too fun.
00:06:09.520 Too fun.
00:06:10.040 and i think also too like obvious like it has to it cannot be the obvious use of a thing
00:06:19.320 no it has to be like a very off-label weird yeah yeah take out any one word yeah yeah snort
00:06:26.740 crushed whole aspirin fine yeah yeah yeah shockwave therapy yeah yeah what is shockwave therapy i
00:06:35.220 I don't know what it is.
00:06:36.080 I don't have any idea.
00:06:38.200 Our listener doesn't know either.
00:06:39.900 Yeah.
00:06:40.480 We just know he does it.
00:06:42.100 Well done, sir.
00:06:42.800 This is incredible.
00:06:43.880 We have such specialists.
00:06:44.980 Like, you guys are incredible.
00:06:50.340 Our listeners are so good at these games
00:06:52.440 that I'm, like, a little worried about them.
00:06:54.660 Like, what are you guys doing with your free time?
00:06:58.400 So, yeah, I think it's really important
00:06:59.780 to sort of think about...
00:07:01.020 One of the characteristic things
00:07:02.340 that we often talk about on Embed With The Right
00:07:04.300 is that there are two deeply humiliating aspects
00:07:06.960 of being alive in the 2020s.
00:07:08.540 A, we're losing to these people,
00:07:10.020 and we're losing to these people.
00:07:13.280 There's a guy who's signing up for shockwave therapy,
00:07:16.440 and then he's somehow deciding on whether you live or die. 0.98
00:07:19.640 You're like, this is fucking great. 0.98
00:07:21.020 On the one hand, there are reasons of capitalism. 0.98
00:07:24.920 There are reasons of power politics and reactionary ideas
00:07:28.220 that sort of create the creep.
00:07:30.020 But the other thing that creates the creep,
00:07:31.540 and Brian Johnson is a really good example of this,
00:07:36.500 it's just that they're having midlife crises
00:07:38.600 while also having ungodly amounts of money.
00:07:41.460 It's what happens when a midlife crisis
00:07:43.640 meets a trillion dollar valuation, right?
00:07:46.300 Yeah, you can see them like trying to buy youth
00:07:49.820 and it's just like weird stunted childlike version of youth.
00:07:53.100 These guys all dress like a 19 year old,
00:07:56.320 you know, like the leather jackets,
00:07:58.080 the clothes are a little too tight.
00:08:00.040 they'll have like wraparound sunglasses
00:08:02.820 you know like
00:08:03.560 you're once again just describing Elon Musk
00:08:05.460 well or more to the point
00:08:08.700 a lot of the AI slop that people create of him
00:08:10.800 that he then eagerly retweets right
00:08:12.720 where he always looks to be 20 years younger
00:08:15.120 and you're like
00:08:15.500 god it's just so embarrassing how on the surface
00:08:18.920 this is
00:08:19.740 the refusal to kind of grow up
00:08:22.120 or the desire to relive glory days
00:08:24.640 is such an important piece of the puzzle here
00:08:27.260 there's something about
00:08:28.640 the like youth obsession that is really core to how these guys think about their own power
00:08:35.840 like they see themselves as sort of playing they think that they're like little boys who are like
00:08:43.540 dressed up in costumes playing villain it's like no no you're like the actual villain like you're
00:08:47.600 you're actually a grown man yeah like really doing this yeah right some of the worst people
00:08:52.600 in history were like younger than you when they got up to the worst stuff in history right it's
00:08:57.160 not too late guys like i also think that there is an element here of like wanting to be every age
00:09:03.940 at once i think that there really is just like a refusal of the sequence of time in a human life
00:09:09.260 here because musk has a different mode too when he's like philosophizing it's like oh you want
00:09:13.820 to be like this grizzled old hand like this this person who's like thought deeply and suffered a
00:09:19.080 lot and it's like yeah but then you're like an insult comic like two minutes later it's like
00:09:23.660 So Ian McKellen suddenly was like, these nuts, you know, who are these two people?
00:09:29.860 Like, how many personalities are in this person, right?
00:09:34.080 I also often think about the fact that, like, when it comes to this kind of question of aging and of middle age for these very powerful people,
00:09:46.500 and it's very noticeable that, like, they've become so preoccupied with narratives of civilizational decline, planetary decline.
00:09:53.240 And now I don't want to poo-poo all of that,
00:09:55.120 given that, like, partly thanks to their efforts,
00:09:57.740 we may well be headed that way.
00:09:59.440 But it's still noticeable that, like, often enough,
00:10:02.060 it's like, you're just describing your own body, bro.
00:10:04.440 It's like, there are still young people. 0.99
00:10:07.040 Like, they're like, people don't fuck anymore. 0.99
00:10:09.180 It's like, okay, people, you know. 0.99
00:10:12.760 Sure.
00:10:14.320 Yeah.
00:10:15.660 It's like, people leave parties too early.
00:10:17.960 It's like, okay, could be, could be.
00:10:20.900 There's that old Fred Jameson quote
00:10:22.900 that often gets dragged out.
00:10:23.880 It's easier to imagine the end of the world
00:10:25.400 than to imagine the end of capitalism.
00:10:27.400 And I do think for a lot of these people,
00:10:29.320 it's easier to imagine the heat death of the sun
00:10:32.240 than their own death.
00:10:33.980 And so they're like,
00:10:34.960 well, obviously we should be worried about that, guys.
00:10:37.080 It sounds real rough, you all.
00:10:40.940 Anyway, should we move on to number six?
00:10:44.760 Step six, let's do it.
00:10:46.340 Step six, contrarianism.
00:10:47.960 you got to be contrarian i i think so much of the silicon valley creep phenomenon has to do
00:10:54.800 with wanting to be different from other people who are fun fact totally exactly like you 0.68
00:11:02.080 and i think that's got to be a mindfuck i gotta be honest uh i do think that there is an element
00:11:07.440 here of standing apart proudly and finding your tribe that way i mean there peter teal i think is 0.96
00:11:15.220 a pretty good example. When Keith homophobically
00:11:19.120 insults the Stanford instructor and Peter Thiel is like, this guy should not get kicked out.
00:11:23.700 He meets Curtis Yarwin when Curtis Yarwin
00:11:27.360 has all these broadsides against U.S. democracy and Thiel
00:11:31.160 having ideas about women's right to vote was like, I like this. These people 0.86
00:11:35.040 meet through these kind of contrarian positionings
00:11:39.240 but then it's only worth it if they can find other men there and be
00:11:43.200 like let's be buds they need to be different together yes i don't know i think there's
00:11:48.680 something about the troll position that's really appealing right the troll gets to sort of like
00:11:56.320 irreverently tear down these sacred cows and in doing so freaking you out triggering you he's both
00:12:04.580 like demonstrating his own power he's making you feel something that you don't want to feel
00:12:10.040 But also, these guys, I think this is really core to the creep,
00:12:13.860 they always think they're punching up.
00:12:15.620 They always think they're tearing down this hegemon.
00:12:17.580 Like when Peter Thiel is like, who will stand up for the homophobe?
00:12:21.980 He's like, I am, you know, taking down big political correctness
00:12:27.560 or whatever it is.
00:12:28.820 I'm standing up for small billionaires by destroying Gawker, right?
00:12:33.440 Like whom he called bullies, right?
00:12:35.140 Like to him, it was very much like a David V. Goliath thing.
00:12:38.560 and it's like, I have some bad news about Goliath for you, Peter.
00:12:42.820 This is what creates the insistence by these creeps
00:12:45.360 that they're funny when you're like,
00:12:47.060 I'm not even entirely sure what the joke is, right?
00:12:49.840 And part of it is that you don't quite understand
00:12:52.100 which direction they're even punching, right?
00:12:54.180 Like where they see themselves,
00:12:56.200 which positionality they see themselves
00:12:57.740 in various hierarchies, right?
00:12:59.980 Like you're like, do you think you're sort of like
00:13:02.440 speaking truth to power?
00:13:03.380 You are power, bro.
00:13:04.640 So is this where we get to watch Elon Musk
00:13:07.480 describe what he thinks is funny so this is uh here's a clip from elon musk explaining his sense
00:13:15.400 of humor and how he imbued it into his proudest child and the one with the shortest name grok
00:13:20.820 yeah i mean if you want to if you want to have a good time or like make people really laugh at a
00:13:26.040 party uh you can use grok and you can say uh do a vulgar roast of someone um and grok is gonna
00:13:33.300 it's going to be an epic vulgar roast.
00:13:35.580 You can even say, like, take a picture of,
00:13:37.920 like, make a vulgar roast of this person
00:13:40.900 based on their appearance, of people at the party.
00:13:43.500 He's, like, he's going to a party
00:13:45.240 and he wants his AI to help roast
00:13:48.840 one of the attendees at the party, you know?
00:13:51.200 That thing that makes you the hit at every party.
00:13:54.600 He's saying vulgar roast.
00:13:56.320 It sounds to me like he's saying bulgar.
00:13:59.060 We, like, and then, of course, the whole idea that, like,
00:14:02.420 I think I'm such a funny guy
00:14:03.680 that I have to outsource my punchlines to an AI.
00:14:07.260 And you're like, all right, definitely says something.
00:14:11.380 Well, should we move on to step seven?
00:14:14.400 Hot takes.
00:14:16.440 When we were talking about this,
00:14:17.900 I was like, Adrian, six and seven are the same thing.
00:14:21.380 Hot takes and contrarianism, those are synonyms.
00:14:25.320 Like, what are we doing here?
00:14:26.560 Yeah, so they're not dissimilar and they're related.
00:14:29.480 but what's important i think is that the troll doesn't care that he triggers you right the troll
00:14:36.620 kind of sits back and the whole affect lives off the fact that you care more than the troll does
00:14:42.000 right the troll has a kind of um impish puckish quality will will say something inappropriate
00:14:49.240 and then we'll just kind of watch the wreckage you know pile up at the same time it's really
00:14:54.980 important that like when these guys do hot takes they actually care a great deal about reactions
00:15:01.720 they're they're inveterate hot takers as i think anyone who's on as many stimulants and on as few
00:15:07.960 books as they are right they're gonna have opinions they also a lot of them especially
00:15:13.500 you know in in certain parts of the industry are asked for their opinion about things that they
00:15:18.660 have no knowledge of all the time and then they just kind of shoot from the hip at which point
00:15:22.800 this will be put on social media
00:15:25.020 and predictably people like us
00:15:27.240 will be very uncharitable about this 1.00
00:15:29.000 and be like, you're an idiot. 1.00
00:15:31.120 Okay, in fairness to us, they are. 1.00
00:15:33.000 Yes, which they are.
00:15:35.380 Which I think billionaires
00:15:36.940 have traditionally been.
00:15:38.220 I'm sure that, you know,
00:15:39.620 asking one of the Walgreens
00:15:41.120 about tax policy
00:15:42.360 wouldn't have yielded
00:15:43.120 something amazing.
00:15:43.840 It's like, this man mostly golfs.
00:15:45.620 He's just a golfing machine
00:15:46.960 at this point. 0.99
00:15:47.800 He shits, he eats, he golfs. 0.99
00:15:49.520 But the thing is, 1.00
00:15:50.860 these billionaires hang out on Twitter
00:15:54.100 so they can see what you said about them
00:15:57.160 and they read about it and they do not like it.
00:16:01.340 And I think this is what makes the hot take different
00:16:03.780 and in fact the inverse of the trollish behavior
00:16:06.800 because the troll sort of says, I don't care.
00:16:08.780 The hot taker cares, so upset that, how dare you?
00:16:12.740 I know people who've gotten fired
00:16:14.640 for making fun of Elon Musk.
00:16:16.100 It's just like he is shocking
00:16:18.340 at how much he notices, right?
00:16:20.860 These are two people I thought about, just to kind of not always beat up on Elon Musk, is Tim Draper, whose hobby is splitting up California into multiple Californias.
00:16:33.580 Six Californias.
00:16:35.260 Why not seven?
00:16:36.540 Why not 12?
00:16:37.680 How many can we have?
00:16:39.260 Well, he tried for three afterwards.
00:16:41.440 He was like, oh, maybe six was the wrong number.
00:16:43.520 I should have just...
00:16:44.040 It's California deflation.
00:16:45.860 Soon there will be only one.
00:16:46.660 Right. So this guy goes out every couple of years and is like, people should be able to shop around for the best California. It works on Amazon. So why shouldn't it work for Californias? And then another group of people, let's call them election consultants, is like, this is a payday. We will flatter this man into giving us tens of millions of dollars.
00:17:12.540 Every time this poor man sinks millions of his own money,
00:17:16.220 because no one else will donate for this, right?
00:17:17.900 Because it's like, to use a technical term, 1.00
00:17:21.120 a fucking idiotic idea. 1.00
00:17:23.640 And so he just like blows some money 1.00
00:17:25.960 on like bisecting, trisecting,
00:17:29.340 septuple-secting California occasionally,
00:17:32.740 which then fails to qualify for the ballot.
00:17:35.220 And he then gives an interview saying like,
00:17:38.060 the failure of this ballot initiative
00:17:39.520 shows why we need several Californias.
00:17:43.240 And you're like, I think we've all learned a valuable lesson here,
00:17:46.440 which is we need more Californians.
00:17:48.220 But this kind of hot taking, this kind of project that solves a problem
00:17:52.920 only people like that have, and that everyone else is like,
00:17:56.740 I'm sorry, what?
00:17:57.900 Like, I'm not even offended.
00:17:59.100 I'm not even mad.
00:17:59.960 I'm just perplexed.
00:18:03.100 You know, the thing that the Washington Post is becoming,
00:18:05.600 it's the paper for Jeff Bezos.
00:18:08.280 It's the paper that Jeff Bezos would like to read.
00:18:10.140 And he thinks that, like, I'm a normal guy.
00:18:12.160 other people want to read this and it turns out jeff bezos is not a normal guy and eventually
00:18:16.960 it'll just be him being like this is pretty good these these people make a lot of good points and
00:18:20.900 you're like yeah you would think that it's just you in newspaper form yeah so this is something
00:18:27.820 where they're actually obsessed with being one of the people but also of having this like unique
00:18:34.960 perspective, right? Like, I'm a genius
00:18:37.060 and I, with my genius, can solve
00:18:39.380 the problems of
00:18:40.680 the true
00:18:43.240 vult who are all just like me.
00:18:44.520 Yeah. And this is something that is particularly
00:18:46.760 strong. Draper, by the way, is not
00:18:48.640 a tech founder himself. He runs
00:18:50.660 a university, Draper U,
00:18:52.960 which I want to recommend to all of you
00:18:54.640 in terms of avoiding it.
00:18:56.980 I think it's in, like, San Mateo. It's
00:18:58.440 next to the Hillsdale Mall, I think.
00:19:00.460 Yeah, yeah. Where all the good universities are,
00:19:02.560 just right next to the Hillsdale Mall.
00:19:04.800 You can build a bear and then attend a Draper class.
00:19:10.560 Anyway, it's particularly pronounced, I think,
00:19:12.700 among a class of people who are tech-adjacent
00:19:15.820 and who pride themselves on their judgment
00:19:18.620 in terms of fields that they know very little about,
00:19:21.580 which is venture capitalists.
00:19:23.180 Are you familiar with VC Twitter as a phenomenon?
00:19:26.280 Not really, but I do know that I am blocked by Mark Andreessen.
00:19:29.800 Nice.
00:19:34.860 Which probably came about when you replied, 1.00
00:19:37.300 that's the dumbest thing I ever heard, 0.99
00:19:38.740 to an opinion that Marc Andreessen had 0.99
00:19:41.140 about a thing that Marc Andreessen had thought
00:19:43.160 about 25 seconds about prior to hitting send
00:19:47.060 and probably was like, and then flushed the toilet.
00:19:49.600 I was like, I think I did well.
00:19:51.420 What? She's calling me an idiot? 1.00
00:19:53.280 Block, right? 1.00
00:19:54.940 VC Twitter, I think, is the absolute pinnacle of this
00:19:57.900 because these are people who don't recognize
00:20:01.080 limits to their expertise in their business.
00:20:03.880 and then transfer that to public pronouncements
00:20:07.700 on matters often of policy and politics,
00:20:10.500 often concerning, you know, unhousedness and crime
00:20:14.640 and what to do about it.
00:20:16.320 And they're like, shock callers, maybe, right?
00:20:18.840 And then people are like, reply and be like, 1.00
00:20:21.020 criminologists here, you're a moron. 1.00
00:20:22.680 And they're like, what? 1.00
00:20:24.800 We must destroy democracy. 1.00
00:20:26.320 This man must not be able to speak to me like that, peasant. 1.00
00:20:29.540 And this also brings us, of course, to the Thai cave disaster. 1.00
00:20:34.540 This is just to bring it back to Elon Musk.
00:20:37.180 The gift that keeps on giving for our podcast.
00:20:39.240 Exactly, yeah.
00:20:40.480 This was a conflict, I think, in 2018,
00:20:42.320 where there was a Thai soccer team trapped in a cave,
00:20:46.360 and a group of very traditionally credentialed people
00:20:50.900 started putting their mind to how to get these kids out.
00:20:54.260 This is like the Thai Navy cave divers,
00:20:57.320 which turns out to be this very tightly knit international group 0.60
00:21:00.540 of just like true freaks.
00:21:02.500 I mean, that's a terrifying thing to do.
00:21:04.680 I mean that in all the best ways.
00:21:07.500 Like, that seems scary, and my hat is off to them.
00:21:11.040 The person whose hat was not off to them was Elon Musk,
00:21:13.360 who was like, I'm going to solve this with a robot.
00:21:15.980 And then people pushed back and said,
00:21:17.540 like, look, you don't know what you're talking about.
00:21:19.340 Robots turn out to be really hard to maneuver in caves.
00:21:22.180 We don't think this is going to get the kids back.
00:21:23.960 To which Elon, in his infinite wisdom, replied,
00:21:27.460 if you don't think I'm a genius who can solve this
00:21:29.840 and indeed every problem, 0.99
00:21:31.640 maybe you're a pedophile. 1.00
00:21:33.780 It's like real cool shit. 1.00
00:21:35.600 So, but like, 0.98
00:21:36.120 there's not a ton of
00:21:36.820 what we might call
00:21:37.720 epistemic humility
00:21:38.800 in this set.
00:21:40.540 We might also say, like,
00:21:41.500 this was at the height
00:21:42.300 of like, of QAnon.
00:21:43.700 Like, I think it's also
00:21:44.360 just conspiratorial thinking.
00:21:45.960 He thought,
00:21:47.020 big diver is trying to thwart
00:21:49.880 my awesome,
00:21:52.360 still to be built,
00:21:53.820 just wait up kids,
00:21:54.920 it'll come any minute now,
00:21:56.360 cave diving robot, right?
00:21:57.580 Like, big, 1.00
00:21:58.720 big Thai diver is denying my genius. How dare they? 1.00
00:22:03.300 And if the kids die in the process, maybe we can 0.98
00:22:06.100 sell them nootropics and that'll pick them right back up or something.
00:22:10.040 It is a weird feature of social media that famous rich people
00:22:14.200 can find out what the rest of us think of them and they have
00:22:18.340 completely mentally collapsed by having that information.
00:22:23.240 And that might bring us, I think, to what they've done
00:22:26.500 about this notion that they are not in fact you know beloved by all they're setting up compounds
00:22:34.160 you gotta set up a compound they are building bunkers so what do you have to say about the
00:22:40.540 compound step so i'm aware of these um i have some pictures but honestly there's not much
00:22:46.640 for the podcast listeners you don't have to feel bad there's not much to see
00:22:50.260 because it's just like a bunch of buildings.
00:22:52.920 My wife was like, I'll drive you guys
00:22:54.820 to the Mark Zuckerberg compound in Palo Alto
00:22:59.020 and you guys can take pictures for your show. 0.65
00:23:01.160 And Adrian was like, we will get shot.
00:23:02.960 No, we get tased, I think was my specific fear.
00:23:06.340 What happens if like we show up here
00:23:08.760 and we're like, we don't feel so great.
00:23:10.460 We just got tased from the Mark Zuckerberg compound.
00:23:13.400 But yeah, these are some compounds
00:23:15.400 built by these various weirdos.
00:23:18.740 There's Zuckerberg's Palo Alto compound.
00:23:21.440 He also has a 1,400-acre Hawaiian ranch
00:23:24.500 that features a 5,000-square-foot underground bunker.
00:23:28.980 And I found this one interview with Zuckerberg
00:23:31.560 where the reporter was asking him,
00:23:33.440 like, what's the underground bunker for?
00:23:34.920 And he was like, don't worry about it.
00:23:38.660 There is, this I believe is owned by Larry Ellison, 0.85
00:23:42.280 him of the lizard skin.
00:23:44.080 And then, of course, there is the kinds of bunkers
00:23:46.280 that they haven't yet built.
00:23:47.120 There is, you know, the seasteading, which would allow them to have a compound in international waters, which I feel like really combines all the shibboleths of the truly tech-brained.
00:24:00.560 And, of course, I think, like, the Mars that Musk is hoping to one day colonize, I think, would be that.
00:24:08.000 Like, that plus a little bit more Epstein Island, I'm guessing.
00:24:10.380 But I think what's important to note here is, as Moira was saying, like, they in some way don't make explicit what these are for.
00:24:17.740 And even amongst themselves,
00:24:19.480 like they apparently use code,
00:24:21.440 like acquiring property in New Zealand
00:24:24.040 is like code for like,
00:24:25.640 I'm getting a doom bunker.
00:24:27.480 There was a New Yorker story
00:24:28.500 where someone got interviewed
00:24:29.580 where this sort of came up.
00:24:31.000 You might say like,
00:24:31.640 look, if I had a billion dollars,
00:24:32.540 I might buy a nice house.
00:24:34.360 These are more than that.
00:24:35.600 These are testament to two things.
00:24:38.500 One, that these people have a very clear sense
00:24:41.080 of where the journey is going. 0.68
00:24:42.220 And it is some mix of race, war, 0.88
00:24:44.740 Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome
00:24:47.200 and yeah I don't know
00:24:49.320 The Purge
00:24:50.180 the second thing is that like as
00:24:53.160 with the grifters
00:24:55.180 that grift off someone like
00:24:56.880 Brian Johnson clearly
00:24:58.920 a whole ecosystem has grown up
00:25:00.800 around these people's fears being like
00:25:02.920 hey you should probably buy a bunker
00:25:04.420 we make the best bunkers don't test them
00:25:07.100 but they're real good you should buy them
00:25:08.760 trust us
00:25:09.540 by the time anybody tests that thesis
00:25:12.580 they'll be gone with their money
00:25:14.340 The pictures of them are, like, really sad.
00:25:17.640 Like, actually, they're pressing places to sit out the apocalypse.
00:25:20.200 Like, they're eating, like, Hershey's bars.
00:25:22.180 And you're like, you couldn't have stocked us with Snickers?
00:25:24.820 It couldn't be me.
00:25:26.760 When the apocalypse comes, I want that bomb to fall, like, on my head. 0.96
00:25:30.000 I want to go first. 0.80
00:25:31.880 But that might bring us to step nine.
00:25:35.280 Step nine, of course.
00:25:37.860 Lickspittles. 1.00
00:25:38.940 You're gonna want some Lickspittles. 1.00
00:25:41.000 You gotta have them.
00:25:41.680 So we've been making fun of these guys for a while this evening,
00:25:47.280 but I think it's really important to point out that they have devoted fans,
00:25:51.420 like really intensely devoted sycophantic fans.
00:25:57.780 As typified, Adrian, would you do the honors?
00:26:01.540 It's not wrong. It's not wrong.
00:26:05.360 For listeners, this is a famous tweet from 2022 0.99
00:26:09.040 where Elon Musk slams his dick in a car door 0.99
00:26:11.480 and Musk fans say, 1.00
00:26:12.820 masterful gambit, sir.
00:26:14.520 And they're really around the Twitter acquisition
00:26:17.800 that very clearly was a bit that got out of hand,
00:26:21.260 that made no business sense,
00:26:23.500 and that is propped up only by the fact that, like,
00:26:26.980 he owes it to his ego to hold on
00:26:29.120 to his favorite site to hang out on.
00:26:32.600 People were twisting themselves into pretzels
00:26:34.980 to, like, explain, like,
00:26:36.080 why this was actually such a smart move.
00:26:38.160 Yeah, the sort of attempt to create like a political economy of Elon Musk can sometimes be generative, but it does have to overlook the fact that this guy is clearly not thinking beyond like further than his nose, you know, like he's just all impulse. 0.97
00:26:51.500 But the thing about the reply guys who say masterful gambit, sir, when he slams his dick in the car door, is it like now they have AI bots who say masterful gambit, sir, when they slam their dits in the car door.
00:27:03.580 They've like actually automated the reply function. 0.94
00:27:06.060 Yeah, I mean, they love, for instance, creating these thirst traps almost, where they thirst trap him for himself, right? They generate these images that very clearly depict Elon Musk the way he'd like to see himself or the way he recalls himself or something, and then either tag him in or hope he finds this.
00:27:25.180 and then when he replies like it helps that elon musk has made it quite lucrative to get his
00:27:31.600 attention on x right it's it's a way to make money not a ton uh he's the one well he's also
00:27:37.180 not making money no one's making money on twitter who knows what this thing like it's the weirdest
00:27:41.700 economy in the world but in essence yeah you're thirst trapping the owner of the site into
00:27:47.220 hopefully replying to you and then you make like two thousand dollars or something like that
00:27:51.500 so this appetite for sick alfonsie
00:27:56.300 like friend of the pod Kate Mann 0.99
00:27:58.080 pointed out that the ass kissing nature of AI bots 0.89
00:28:01.880 is partly in her view about the nostalgia 0.99
00:28:05.640 for women's submission 0.99
00:28:07.140 for these cheerleading for the male ego 1.00
00:28:10.240 that has been in a little bit of an ebb 0.83
00:28:13.580 it's what your secretary used to say to you
00:28:15.680 and now doesn't anymore
00:28:17.280 now they're like oh the bot can finally fill that void 1.00
00:28:20.300 that feminism and people's self-respect 1.00
00:28:23.740 has left in my life. 0.99
00:28:26.000 But speaking of a lack of self-respect,
00:28:28.480 this might bring us to our step 10.
00:28:30.820 Final step.
00:28:31.700 This is important.
00:28:32.780 Very, very important.
00:28:34.260 You got to go to Burning Man.
00:28:38.680 You must go to Burning Man.
00:28:40.780 So everyone look under your seats.
00:28:43.220 I'm kidding.
00:28:44.580 No, we have...
00:28:46.300 Why do they have to go to Burning Man more?
00:28:48.280 It is important, I agree,
00:28:49.780 but explain it to us.
00:28:50.720 I'm not here to judge.
00:28:52.900 Actually, I'm, no, I'm judging.
00:28:54.360 I'm judging.
00:28:55.220 I was like, that would be a first.
00:28:57.900 Okay, my take on Burning Man
00:29:00.360 is that like what the Silicon Valley creep
00:29:03.060 does morally and affectively to me
00:29:06.000 is like what Burning Man does aesthetically.
00:29:08.580 It's just like nails on chalkboard to me.
00:29:11.380 But I think that like you can't deny
00:29:12.800 that there's like an overlap
00:29:14.240 between the tech creep crowd
00:29:17.120 and this sort of atmosphere of, shall we say,
00:29:21.840 self-congratulatory permissiveness at Burning Man.
00:29:25.240 And of course, the other overlap is the drugs.
00:29:30.160 Yes.
00:29:31.100 The other thing about the Silicon Valley creep
00:29:35.920 is that they actually do a lot of drugs,
00:29:39.940 but in a weird, sad way.
00:29:42.420 It's like, leave it to these guys to make taking drugs uncool. 0.80
00:29:47.120 also orgy domes oh yeah did anybody hear about the orgy dome at burning man it's coming back
00:29:51.980 so like you all can rest easy um thank god but like my interpretation of sort of like the ethos
00:30:02.020 of psychedelics was that they were about trying to unlock other ways of perceiving the world
00:30:07.260 outside of things like you know capitalism hierarchy racism that they could be like
00:30:13.340 potentially technologies of subversion, right?
00:30:16.220 In the optimistic sense. 1.00
00:30:18.060 And then these fucking people 1.00
00:30:19.700 started like micro-dosing 1.00
00:30:21.460 so they could work better.
00:30:23.820 Yeah, they're technologies of self-optimization,
00:30:27.040 essentially, right?
00:30:27.920 It doesn't destabilize the self,
00:30:29.700 it makes you more you.
00:30:30.700 I will not concede
00:30:33.580 that Elon Musk has self-optimized
00:30:35.200 with his ketamine use.
00:30:36.280 I'm going to say there might be
00:30:37.500 some non-optimal side effects.
00:30:40.240 Yes, CF the Twitter purchase.
00:30:42.060 um but like this is a like sort of capture of this subculture for the purposes of you know
00:30:52.200 everything sad and depressing which i think is a decent summation of like what happened to burning
00:30:55.700 man right i don't know it's just hard to imagine anything these guys like wouldn't colonize and
00:31:03.840 capture and sort of suck its life out of right and that brings me to what i think is really the
00:31:09.920 like core of the creep which is that he makes us dread the future like freud's identification
00:31:16.300 of fear and dread as the emotions evoked by the uncanny those are future oriented emotions right
00:31:21.660 something bad is gonna happen something good is going to be taken away from me like something
00:31:26.320 that i find inviolable is like going to be violated and subverted and like made into this
00:31:34.000 like dark other that's hollowed out of its value and that is how the creep makes me feel
00:31:40.180 yeah and i think it's also important that there's a fear of the future but it's a fear of the future
00:31:46.500 that they get to invent and that they get to fill with content i thought i'd briefly show one more
00:31:51.160 clip this is from an interview with jesse waters with elon musk while he was doging this is
00:31:57.560 somewhere in Washington, and they both come off terribly in this clip.
00:32:02.780 This is a backup plan in case something bad happens here, going to Mars.
00:32:07.060 That's one of the benefits of Mars, is life insurance for life collectively.
00:32:14.200 So eventually, all life on Earth will be destroyed by the sun.
00:32:18.640 The sun is gradually expanding, and so we do at some point need to be a multi-planet
00:32:23.920 civilization uh because earth will be incinerated i'm hearing this for the first time no one's ever
00:32:30.800 told me the sun is going to burn earth i'm not disagreeing with it i'm just saying i didn't know
00:32:36.640 this was our destiny to get roasted by the sun yes yes i mean it's it's really funny that like 0.80
00:32:43.080 what if the most adult guy and the world's dumbest guy had an interview he's like i'm hearing this 0.97
00:32:49.960 for the first time. 0.97
00:32:50.800 It's quite amazing.
00:32:52.140 But yes, for those
00:32:52.860 playing along at home,
00:32:53.800 of course,
00:32:54.360 the heat death of the sun
00:32:56.600 is forecast to be something
00:32:57.840 like in 4.5 billion years.
00:32:59.740 Like, yeah,
00:33:00.000 we better get cracking on Mars
00:33:02.100 real fast.
00:33:03.500 Set your alarms now
00:33:04.820 because it is coming. 1.00
00:33:06.160 In the next 2 billion generations,
00:33:08.180 we really want to get
00:33:09.120 on that whole spaceship thing.
00:33:11.140 But the point is
00:33:12.380 that not only is the creep
00:33:13.580 about fear,
00:33:14.440 it's fear of things
00:33:15.760 that the creep has invented.
00:33:16.640 There are things to be afraid of
00:33:17.620 that might move us
00:33:18.500 to politics that might move us to community that might make us want to become active together and
00:33:26.280 find other people worried about the same thing right like climate change does that the way cars
00:33:30.800 destroy our cities does that right like there are fears at the end of that but those are fears about
00:33:34.300 like five minutes from now but no like this kind of future is one that is so capricious and so
00:33:40.460 completely just comes out of his own head that it's not actually a form of responsibility to
00:33:46.580 humanity or to the future it's just his own mind made everything right like it's just narcissism
00:33:54.840 with a couple of extra steps but like if the creep has agency over the future so do we and
00:34:02.420 this is kind of the silver lining i wanted to close on is like actually we don't have to say
00:34:08.520 yes to these guys we don't have to accept their violations of the things we love because like
00:34:15.360 something that the creep does for me is he makes it really clear to me like what i hate and what i
00:34:21.320 don't want to happen and the inverse of that is that you get a better sense of what you love
00:34:26.300 and the kind of future you want to imagine so i would invite all of you to try and take this kind
00:34:32.580 of like photo negative version of the good future and try to imagine a better one right like what
00:34:40.320 would the opposite of what these people want be because i think that's maybe what we should start
00:34:44.340 trying to build together.
00:34:45.600 So thank you all so much for coming out.
00:34:47.340 Thank you.
00:34:59.020 Anyway, I think we're going to take some questions
00:35:00.640 if people want to ask.
00:35:01.560 Yeah.
00:35:02.620 So we have the mic in the front there.
00:35:06.160 Just because I happened to have binge listened
00:35:09.780 to Alex Karp's biography last night.
00:35:13.280 Oh, wow.
00:35:13.620 Where does he fit in?
00:35:16.400 He definitely fits in, right?
00:35:18.180 The technological republic is basically his attempt to say,
00:35:27.140 well, the mistake that tech made for the longest time
00:35:31.820 was making fun little gizmos for the masses, right?
00:35:37.660 And what we need to do is get in league with, like,
00:35:41.500 actually swole parts of society like the military and the state right like i think that that is
00:35:48.060 that is definitely a creep thing because it's there is a real alignment with like the muscularity
00:35:53.060 of the centralized state there and a real kind of truly anti-tech in some ways he thinks it's a
00:36:00.640 critique of the tech industry of a kind of consumer oriented where he's like you're making
00:36:04.560 way too much fun little gizmos for the for the piggies right and if you look at the ai ads that 0.95
00:36:12.660 are all over this city what you see is advertising that no longer is trying to sell to any of you 0.88
00:36:18.220 right it's like i have nothing to sell to you i'm selling maybe to that one vc who might invest with
00:36:23.360 us and the rest of you i'm coming for your jobs i'm i'm gonna you know destroy your water the end
00:36:29.980 I'm just informing you of this. 0.93
00:36:31.220 I'm not trying to buy your consent.
00:36:33.200 I'm not trying to make it sexy.
00:36:34.980 I'm not trying to say how practical it is
00:36:36.600 and how it makes your life easier.
00:36:38.100 That was 10 years ago.
00:36:39.040 We're done with that.
00:36:40.020 We're just telling you.
00:36:41.700 And that's, I think, where CARP very much fits
00:36:44.140 into that kind of sort of unremitting vision of the future
00:36:47.340 that I think creepiness also embodies
00:36:49.200 and that I think we should resist.
00:36:52.060 Okay, that's helpful.
00:36:53.840 Thank you.
00:36:54.220 Thank you.
00:36:54.680 Welcome.
00:36:55.960 Hi, so you mentioned Starship Troopers
00:36:58.800 and this media that is attempting to be anti-fascist
00:37:03.180 and yet the fascists lock onto it
00:37:05.180 and embrace that aesthetic.
00:37:08.580 And when I think about that, I wonder,
00:37:10.120 is it even possible to do media that is,
00:37:14.420 like, what does it take to make media
00:37:15.880 that is actually anti-fascist?
00:37:18.220 I mean, somebody will always misinterpret your efforts, right?
00:37:24.140 I've, like, learned that I cannot be writing
00:37:27.040 for the bad reader or the bad faith reader
00:37:29.320 or the like willfully obtuse reader
00:37:31.900 because trying to make that person,
00:37:34.700 like trying to ensure myself against that person,
00:37:37.520 first of all, it's not possible,
00:37:38.720 but it also makes me say things like,
00:37:40.920 which I do not mean to do X and in no way implies Y
00:37:44.820 and should not be interpreted to Z.
00:37:47.400 You know, it's a trap and it's futile.
00:37:52.000 I think you have to do the best you can
00:37:54.480 and just sort of try to focus on the people
00:37:58.220 who will get it, which is who it's really for,
00:38:00.420 rather than the people who will subvert it 0.99
00:38:02.600 or be a dick about it or be dumb about it. 0.96
00:38:05.220 I'm sorry, that's probably not a very encouraging answer. 0.98
00:38:07.980 But I do think like a certain kind of sincerity,
00:38:10.320 like, yeah, like it can be purloined,
00:38:12.100 it can be maladapted.
00:38:13.520 But I also think that like so much of their aesthetic
00:38:17.380 is really not an aesthetic at all, right?
00:38:19.960 Like AI being an example of that,
00:38:21.680 it's just like every aesthetic sort of mashed together.
00:38:24.480 what it often has is an aesthetic that tells a story there was a time when like every twitter
00:38:29.440 account was like why can't we build like this anymore right like this this idea that like
00:38:33.800 something is gone something has been lost it's it's about the feeling of loss and bereavement
00:38:39.360 more so than it is about any intrinsic quality of the object meaning you can't control what someone
00:38:46.740 who can't read good uh is gonna do with the thing because they can feel they can find nostalgia in
00:38:53.480 anything. And like, it's a joke I always make when it comes to people being like, they don't
00:38:58.040 teach Shakespeare in English seminars anymore. They only teach, you know, and then they need like
00:39:02.700 Christina Rossetti. And you're like, yeah, I mean, everything looks like the abandonment of the
00:39:07.080 classics if you've read like three books, right? Like it's being bookish, caring about aesthetic
00:39:12.340 objects. You're always going to be at a deficit with these guys because like they are operating
00:39:17.200 with like four objects and you're just, you're going to have more than that. And you're going
00:39:21.280 They'd be like, wait, actually, that was not the author's intent at all, right?
00:39:24.520 Yeah, just, like, let them have it and just shrug it off, I think,
00:39:27.540 and mock them mercilessly.
00:39:29.500 You have my permission.
00:39:30.980 Thank you.
00:39:35.880 Hi, I'm a big fan of your historical coverage and your opera coverage,
00:39:39.860 and I have a sort of frivolous question, which is,
00:39:42.800 is Wagner a creep?
00:39:44.340 But maybe to expand it.
00:39:46.560 Oh, my God, the best question.
00:39:48.220 Oh, my God.
00:39:49.220 Maybe to expand it.
00:39:50.280 Also, the creep feels very modern in a way that the preacher and the pervert are not.
00:39:54.720 And I'm curious about your sort of, if there are any figures as you were putting together
00:39:57.820 that you have a kind of like weird creep from 60 years ago to throw at us
00:40:02.580 that's a kind of fun figure to be disgusted by.
00:40:05.640 So I guess a guy who definitely would be a creep would be Schopenhauer.
00:40:09.440 Because Schopenhauer has a long chapter in The World is Will and Representation
00:40:14.560 where he says like, the sexual urge is the will of the species.
00:40:19.800 like working through us
00:40:21.020 and that is why
00:40:21.720 certain things are attractive 0.93
00:40:22.780 such as narrow hips
00:40:23.680 and then like
00:40:24.180 and he goes into this
00:40:25.060 like extremely specific
00:40:27.120 like age range 0.62
00:40:28.740 when like women 1.00
00:40:29.300 are most attractive 1.00
00:40:29.960 and you're like
00:40:30.260 Arthur, Arthur
00:40:31.100 I need you to stop
00:40:32.060 it's just
00:40:32.560 let's
00:40:33.520 like
00:40:33.920 you're really kind of
00:40:35.680 just giving it all away here
00:40:36.980 like this is just
00:40:38.220 a self-portrait
00:40:39.100 so that feels to me
00:40:40.700 like super creepy
00:40:41.780 Wagner
00:40:43.420 is somewhere between 0.80
00:40:45.040 a creep
00:40:45.420 because he does believe
00:40:46.320 in some of this stuff
00:40:47.000 and he does love
00:40:47.980 to go be no 1.00
00:40:48.620 and it is all about like mongrel races and shit. 0.99
00:40:52.120 Like he has all these theories, 1.00
00:40:53.520 but he is also a deep abiding pervert, right? 0.75
00:40:59.040 Because ultimately he's like, you know, 0.99
00:41:02.000 sex is the way we undo the law,
00:41:05.020 like with siblings and stuff, right? 0.76
00:41:07.980 That feels like, that's portnoy coded to me.
00:41:10.780 That's real portnoy coded.
00:41:12.300 So I think he's got both.
00:41:14.320 He contains multitudes.
00:41:15.920 He's a Gesamtkunstwerk of the creep.
00:41:19.080 He's not a preacher.
00:41:20.120 The one thing he's not is a preacher, right?
00:41:21.940 Like, he really hates religious stricture.
00:41:24.660 And maybe that's the answer to your question,
00:41:26.320 is the creep a modern thing?
00:41:28.620 Probably yes, because for Wagner,
00:41:31.440 that thing was not a distinction.
00:41:33.100 He did think Eros undoes these horrible strictures,
00:41:37.660 and it does so scientifically, right?
00:41:39.740 He thought these two things were one and the same thing.
00:41:41.680 He's like, incest is good because it maintains the species
00:41:44.280 or whatever, right? 0.94
00:41:45.000 And because it does away with dumb theological stuff, right?
00:41:48.620 So there is a moment probably in the mid-19th century 0.89
00:41:50.380 where the creep and the pervert are not distinct, right?
00:41:53.840 Where someone is arguing about Darwin,
00:41:56.340 but also just like, and it feels good, right?
00:41:59.100 And I think those come apart at some point.
00:42:02.060 And my guess is that's where we want to pinpoint
00:42:04.020 the origin of the creep as well.
00:42:06.680 Perhaps a future episode.
00:42:08.060 Yes, the origins of the creep.
00:42:09.860 Thank you.
00:42:10.560 Thank you so much.
00:42:11.620 Thank you.
00:42:15.000 now that i'm here i don't think that i have a coherent question it keeps taking a new form but
00:42:23.240 i guess i'm just thinking about the creep and rape culture i'm thinking about the revenge of
00:42:29.140 the nerds yeah but i'm also thinking about control and dominance over death and their own bodies and
00:42:36.680 so i guess i'm going to just put it out there as a prompt you speak more to to kind of this
00:42:43.820 intersection of how
00:42:45.700 is dominance playing
00:42:47.880 out? Like, is that the main central
00:42:49.940 thing? Yeah, and exactly, as of
00:42:51.820 self and of other, right? It is
00:42:54.000 a form, I would say that creepiness
00:42:55.880 is a form of... I think all
00:42:58.020 three prongs of our taxonomy
00:43:00.100 have dominance at their core, right?
00:43:02.440 The preacher sort of
00:43:03.760 enforces it differently.
00:43:05.660 Like, I'd say the pervert and the
00:43:08.060 creep are both really 0.99
00:43:09.740 foregrounding for sex, although the 0.95
00:43:11.840 creep in his negative eugenics 0.92
00:43:13.640 form, we'll also be 0.68
00:43:15.840 interested in sexual prohibitions. 0.65
00:43:17.780 And Preacher and Creep
00:43:19.600 both are about having that control
00:43:21.760 relapse into the self.
00:43:23.480 I mean, the Wrench of the Nerds example is a good one.
00:43:25.700 You also pointed out, is it 16 Candles,
00:43:27.540 the one that has that terrifying ending?
00:43:29.180 Yeah, there's just actual date rape
00:43:31.320 in 16 Candles, yeah.
00:43:33.020 And that is also, of course, a form,
00:43:35.060 it is primarily a sexual assault,
00:43:37.580 but it is also, of course, cast
00:43:39.260 as a form of self-mastery.
00:43:41.680 It's like when the nerd 0.97
00:43:43.040 stops being so damn like feminine himself, right? 0.99
00:43:46.940 Like he becomes a man 0.97
00:43:48.600 and that means like corseting himself to some extent, right?
00:43:51.900 And so like the kind of feedback dimension
00:43:55.020 I think is always there.
00:43:56.740 Of course, it not being quite so obviously like illegal,
00:44:01.640 it gets less noticed,
00:44:02.880 but it's definitely part of it, right?
00:44:05.040 Yeah.
00:44:05.740 Thank you so much.
00:44:06.460 That's a great question.
00:44:10.240 Hi professors.
00:44:11.600 What do we do about the creeps?
00:44:14.200 Like, besides, you know, defunding, delegitimizing them, mocking them, like not using the platforms.
00:44:21.700 It seems like the wealth tax isn't going well in California.
00:44:24.660 Do you have any prescriptive kind of ideas?
00:44:27.780 None that I can say into a microphone.
00:44:29.820 Yeah.
00:44:31.620 It's about eating.
00:44:33.640 Yeah.
00:44:34.720 I mean, I do think that, like, these kinds of people were always around.
00:44:39.300 think what is making them so dominant is their money.
00:44:43.260 And I do think that obviously it'd be great
00:44:45.640 if fewer people thought this way
00:44:46.960 and it'd be great if social media
00:44:48.880 didn't sort of push this kind of ideology
00:44:51.580 into the heads of young people.
00:44:53.580 At the same time, it is really key, I think,
00:44:57.480 that these are figures that would be far more marginal
00:45:03.400 if their wealth were taxed more.
00:45:06.420 So I do think it's a place to start.
00:45:08.280 It's not the place to finish.
00:45:09.300 but it's the place you can start.
00:45:11.360 Defund the creep industrial complex.
00:45:12.800 Yeah, defund the creep industrial complex.
00:45:15.200 I mean, just speaking of Elon Musk and the future,
00:45:17.200 we might one day get a high-speed rail in California
00:45:20.880 and we will never, ever, ever get a hyperloop
00:45:23.220 from Los Angeles to San Francisco.
00:45:25.560 So the state has that over the tech industry.
00:45:29.320 How fun would it be to take Elon Musk's money
00:45:31.700 and be like, we're finally going to build this thing,
00:45:34.500 the high-speed rail.
00:45:36.520 Thank you.
00:45:39.300 um hi i guess maybe somewhat related i was curious whether in your view lick spittles are proto
00:45:46.760 creeps and if so uh if one has uh folks in one's life who one is worried might be proto creeps but
00:45:54.960 not yet because of money or whatnot i would say they're probably if you're if you're asking the
00:46:00.040 question they've already gotten there deal breaker like we're we talked a lot about like
00:46:05.660 the sort of upper echelon of the creep
00:46:07.580 because these are the like instantations of this type
00:46:10.960 that are now like running the whole world, right?
00:46:14.100 These creeps have had a real ascendance,
00:46:17.500 but they have not just fans, but like aspirants.
00:46:21.180 They have disciples, they have imitators.
00:46:24.020 And I think like a wounded superiority complex
00:46:27.100 in a young white male,
00:46:29.720 it's like the reverse of an angel getting its wings. 0.82
00:46:31.600 It's like a slug getting a slime, you know?
00:46:33.260 It's like they have this.
00:46:34.720 and a new one is born every day.
00:46:37.560 I mean, like, Doge is a pretty good example 0.97
00:46:39.300 of big balls and all their names. 0.99
00:46:41.180 Like, these are baby creeps. 0.99
00:46:43.400 There is exactly this kind of imperiousness,
00:46:45.480 this kind of disinterest in what they're destroying,
00:46:48.280 this kind of deliberate withholding of care, right?
00:46:51.120 And the way they targeted things
00:46:52.680 that cared for other people,
00:46:54.100 like, that's classic creep behavior, I would say.
00:46:56.800 I do think that, like,
00:46:58.000 delegitimating these people at the top
00:47:00.720 as a source of aspiration,
00:47:03.300 I think is really, really key.
00:47:04.720 I also think that there is an element here, of course, of this like weird dyadic economy, right?
00:47:09.760 Like you have these people on Twitter making memes for Musk who probably like make like just a tiny bit of money off this guy.
00:47:17.580 It's like the manor lord and like the peasant, right?
00:47:20.040 Like that is sort of the creepy economy.
00:47:22.120 There's the lord who debases himself and degrades himself a little bit.
00:47:24.920 And then there's the people who can like feel a little bigger because they're just as creepy as him.
00:47:28.600 And I think that there's a real scary kind of dialectic there.
00:47:32.480 If and when, I don't know, an AI bubble or something like that ever really comes for these people, they will have an army at their backs.
00:47:39.460 And it's going to be, I mean, it's not going to be everyone, but it's going to be a bunch of people you don't want to really be in close interaction with is what I think.
00:47:46.660 Partly because of the smell.
00:47:48.560 Sure.
00:47:50.520 That too.
00:47:51.520 And the memes, the dank memes, yes.
00:47:54.160 Thank you.
00:47:54.880 Thank you.
00:47:59.420 Hi.
00:47:59.820 Hi, I have perhaps a similar question about success, which is I feel like the pervert and the preacher as categories don't require maybe like right wing masculine notions of success in the way that the creep does.
00:48:12.940 And I specifically wanted to look at it through Alex Jones as kind of a syncretic example of, you know, bits of preacher, bits of creep, certainly lots of pervert.
00:48:23.740 But is pervert the only category that doesn't require success in this, you know, right-wing way? 0.68
00:48:30.040 Like, what is the relation there?
00:48:32.360 True.
00:48:32.820 Although I feel like the pervert is often, like, also has to have displays of wealth or at least of time, right?
00:48:39.600 Like a pickup artist kind of thing where, like, you're just like, well, clearly you don't have a very fulfilling job because, like, this seems like a ton of work.
00:48:47.720 And also black lights are not cheap, right?
00:48:50.520 Like, there is an element, I think, of, like, just disposable income,
00:48:55.060 the same way that, like, a compound isn't cheap for the preacher or for the creep.
00:48:58.900 I mean, I would say that, like, basically all of these guys
00:49:01.800 assume themselves to be failures or to exist in a world
00:49:06.380 that has fallen by its failure to recognize them, right?
00:49:09.680 So, like, the preachers are commanding a moral authority
00:49:12.360 and they're outraged that they don't have it. 0.96
00:49:14.300 The perverts are demanding sexual access 0.79
00:49:16.100 and they're outraged at the women who refuse it 0.99
00:49:18.960 or have the gall to try and refuse it.
00:49:21.040 And the creep is sort of a synthesis, right?
00:49:23.280 They're like, they demand everything.
00:49:26.340 They demand status.
00:49:28.540 And the woundedness, the embitteredness
00:49:32.060 of the refusal is at its core.
00:49:33.940 I see all of these people as failures,
00:49:35.700 but maybe I'm just, you know, an invader that way. 1.00
00:49:37.980 So for the knowledge fight refugees, 0.98
00:49:40.400 would you categorize Alex Jones as any one of those? 1.00
00:49:44.260 Yeah, he's an interesting one, though.
00:49:45.520 I think he is an idiosyncratic example,
00:49:47.400 but I'm inclined to say he's a creep,
00:49:48.640 just because of the, like, complexity of his worldview.
00:49:52.180 Yeah.
00:49:52.860 It's, like, highly referential.
00:49:54.540 It's conspiratorial.
00:49:55.760 Yeah. 0.95
00:49:56.200 He's not having enough fun to be a true pervert.
00:49:58.980 He has a sort of, like, excess that reminds me of, like, 0.88
00:50:01.660 the creeps, like, leaking id, you know?
00:50:04.560 He's always on the verge of tears.
00:50:06.400 He's always, like, seeming to be in, like, bodily discomfort.
00:50:09.800 Yeah.
00:50:10.260 His lying, I mean, if you've ever seen the footage
00:50:12.520 when he's confronted with his, the fact that, like,
00:50:15.180 he accidentally, his lawyer had accidentally faxed over
00:50:17.460 incriminating evidence like he's not the kind of liar that a donald trump is where like he would
00:50:24.020 just blaze through that and be like whatever like that says you right i think he's too uncomfortable 0.97
00:50:29.540 to be a pervert he's too idiosyncratic to be a preacher i think he's a creep yep thank you so
00:50:34.340 much thank you we solved it we solved it uh love the taxonomy i love a good taxonomy um two terms
00:50:44.960 that I feel like I, maybe I missed them,
00:50:46.960 but I didn't hear them come up tonight
00:50:48.720 and I'm curious how you fit in.
00:50:51.160 One is like the nice guy
00:50:52.940 and then the other is just like incels
00:50:56.500 as like a concept.
00:50:58.840 I think that the creep is sort of like
00:51:01.000 the matured or fully realized incel, right?
00:51:05.080 Because like incels are often
00:51:06.680 embittered against slash aspiring perverts, right? 0.62
00:51:10.860 But they tend to have the kind of like intensity
00:51:14.260 of a worldview and like the vividness
00:51:18.000 of an imagined future of a creep.
00:51:20.780 And that's where I would put them.
00:51:22.040 Yeah, and also the systematicity, right?
00:51:23.740 Like a lot of incels, right? 1.00
00:51:25.280 I mean, incels come out of the pickup community. 0.98
00:51:27.440 And so like, there is an element of like, 0.97
00:51:30.040 I need to systematize my sense of ownership here.
00:51:34.640 Hugh Hefner never did that.
00:51:36.220 I feel like it just kind of-
00:51:37.200 No, he just kind of did.
00:51:38.380 I will say like the thing that is a defining
00:51:40.600 intellectual characteristic of the creep to me
00:51:42.500 that we didn't totally get into
00:51:43.820 is recourse to evolutionary psychology.
00:51:46.620 And that is like a core key
00:51:49.760 that unlocks a lot of incel rhetoric.
00:51:51.780 It's like, oh, they think they've reread Darwin 0.99
00:51:54.860 to be about like how the world owes them pussy. 1.00
00:51:58.380 Yeah. 1.00
00:51:59.160 As for the nice guy,
00:52:01.020 I have to think about that some more.
00:52:02.400 That's a really good question.
00:52:03.540 I don't really know.
00:52:04.780 Like that's,
00:52:05.960 because like the creep really prides himself
00:52:08.480 on kind of unremitting hardness.
00:52:11.760 And I think that the nice guy
00:52:12.760 is sort of the opposite of that.
00:52:13.820 The duplicitousness of the nice guy,
00:52:16.040 the hidden motives that are sort of like
00:52:17.820 seeping out of the edges, that is creepy.
00:52:20.260 Yeah, I guess, but at the same time.
00:52:21.560 This is a really good example.
00:52:22.440 We're going to like talk about this later
00:52:23.880 and we're going to have like a little,
00:52:25.940 like very polite but passive aggressive fight
00:52:28.040 on text about which one is which.
00:52:29.520 Yeah.
00:52:30.560 Or like a Patreon episode entirely about the nice guy.
00:52:34.020 Thank you.
00:52:34.940 Thank you so much.
00:52:35.740 Thank you.
00:52:40.060 Hey, just a quick question and like topic
00:52:42.940 like I feel like would be fun to talk about
00:52:44.720 is how creeps interact with each other.
00:52:48.280 It's so interesting, right?
00:52:50.060 Yeah, according to all the lawsuits I've been seeing
00:52:53.380 and like the big egos fighting each other,
00:52:55.580 it seems like they're kind of slowing each other down,
00:52:57.740 but that might be an optimistic take.
00:53:00.040 No, I think you're right.
00:53:01.100 I mean, like they get swollen in order to fight each other.
00:53:03.500 Yeah.
00:53:04.020 Like it's to me, the Musk v. Zuckerberg cage match
00:53:07.300 that never happened.
00:53:07.980 Like everything right down to the fact
00:53:09.480 that it never happened is like perfect creep behavior, right?
00:53:12.040 like dude yeah because like you could say like oh we're both into this let's go biking right like
00:53:17.780 that would be a normal thing to do but it's like no let's fight right like it's like the the creep
00:53:23.220 sort of can only well it's a it's a singular and solitary yeah idea right the sense of supremacy
00:53:30.700 has to be unique to the individual it can't like as though it does get like extrapolated to classes
00:53:35.600 like okay like elon musk thinks that like white people are better than you know anybody else but
00:53:39.940 really he thinks that he
00:53:42.280 is better than all the other white people. 1.00
00:53:44.460 And that is what is encouraging 0.98
00:53:46.520 about the creep is that they cannot form a team.
00:53:48.880 They cannot be
00:53:49.760 a unified class
00:53:52.580 interest in any kind of staying way.
00:53:54.160 They will not belong to a class that has someone like them for a member.
00:53:55.920 They will eat each other. And that is beautiful
00:53:58.340 to me. Thank you so much.
00:54:00.200 Thank you.
00:54:03.400 So I'm going to
00:54:04.280 preface this question by saying that
00:54:05.580 I'm not a stan for these guys, but I'm just
00:54:08.400 like wondering about this it seems like there are some like ultra wealthy tech people who are not 0.58
00:54:15.020 creeps they're sort of traditional like robber baron ultra rich dipshits and i'm sort of wondering
00:54:20.680 like why do some people like take a jump off the deep end and some people don't it's a good
00:54:26.400 question i mean like i think part of it is like the question when they get divorced i do think
00:54:32.080 that like i think that they're just like honestly biographical factors there are also like questions
00:54:37.240 of self-image I think tied up with it if like if they don't identify with nerd culture I think it's
00:54:41.980 a little bit harder to do and I mean I guess also like maybe the people they surround themselves
00:54:46.140 with I do think these are lonely people and a lot of this is pushed along by the buddies slash
00:54:52.520 lick spittles slash manipulators that are like slowly draining their bank accounts right and
00:54:56.800 like I think it might depend on whom you get if like you get like a nice like yogi you like end
00:55:03.300 up being kind of woo-woo and a little weird and like say some stuff that sounds anti-vaxy but 0.80
00:55:07.700 otherwise you're okay or you get like curtis yarwin in your ear and then it's like ah shit here we go
00:55:13.060 it depends on the the genre of court eunuch that you wind up having yeah but like i do think it's 0.90
00:55:19.120 like personality it's circumstance i think like trying to psychoanalyze them too much is a little
00:55:25.100 bit of a fool's errand but you can often point to like a formative sense of rejection people who
00:55:32.460 had good childhoods don't wind up like elon musk yeah like it just doesn't like there's a kind of 0.93
00:55:36.720 like wholeness upon which those like parasites of reaction like can't feed yeah and i mean like
00:55:43.720 even the jeff bezos i think like has only recently started to slot into this thing like there was
00:55:48.960 just like the way he changed spouses felt like the most just billionaire thing ever and it's like
00:55:55.520 not creepy, just, uh, a middle-aged guy making regrettable choices and, uh, buying a gigantic
00:56:03.240 yacht. Uh, right. And like, like, right. Having a weird hobby. Like a lot of these guys, like
00:56:07.720 it's unclear what hobbies they have, right. Or if they have them, you're like, Ooh, like it's the,
00:56:11.980 it's the freaking cows, right. Whereas like yacht is like, I feel like many of us, if you like
00:56:16.600 woke up tomorrow with a billion dollars, your thoughts might turn to yachts, right. You're like,
00:56:21.300 shit, I got to burn this money, let's get yachts, right? 1.00
00:56:24.820 You wouldn't think to cows, right? 1.00
00:56:27.040 Like that might be the difference, right?
00:56:28.860 Like there is a recognizable type of just like
00:56:31.500 American billionaire, right?
00:56:33.560 And like you get the Kleenex boxes,
00:56:35.360 you get your Vegas apartment
00:56:36.600 and you lock yourself away for 20 years,
00:56:38.740 like the normal thing to do.
00:56:40.220 And instead- 0.60
00:56:40.880 Like an American, like an old fashioned American.
00:56:43.580 Night Howard Hughes kind of, yeah.
00:56:46.040 Thank you so much.
00:56:46.680 Thank you.
00:56:47.140 Thank you.
00:56:48.220 Hi, so all of the creeps you've talked about so far
00:56:51.040 have been right-wing or right-wing coded in their beliefs.
00:56:54.100 And so I wanted to ask whether there is such a thing
00:56:56.280 as a left-wing creep. 0.98
00:56:58.100 I think Swalwell's probably a pervert, 0.98
00:57:00.640 but Plattner may be a creep. 0.98
00:57:02.220 And how does that wounded masculinity of the left
00:57:06.180 and the fetishization of certain kinds of dominance fit in?
00:57:09.140 If you've ever been in a left-wing reading group,
00:57:12.400 you know for sure,
00:57:14.320 and from the certainty of lived experience
00:57:16.320 that there are left-wing creeps,
00:57:17.460 I think they tend to have less money.
00:57:19.580 Sorry.
00:57:20.060 Yeah, they have podcasts, which is a fate worse than that.
00:57:27.100 No, they go to grad school.
00:57:29.440 They're in humanities PhD programs.
00:57:32.060 They're in my department.
00:57:35.640 They're like, oh.
00:57:37.340 They're like cows. 1.00
00:57:38.800 I'm like, fuck. 1.00
00:57:42.300 Thank you. 1.00
00:57:43.540 Thank you.
00:57:46.360 Hi, just a little bit of whimsy for the night.
00:57:49.240 Since we're all in bed with the right, that means we must all become part of the taxonomy eventually.
00:57:54.600 So I'm curious to know which of the three that you believe you belong to.
00:58:00.420 Oh, my God.
00:58:00.820 I was actually just thinking of this.
00:58:03.100 And I was like, OK, listen, I think if I was going to be a right wing man, which I would not.
00:58:08.300 Right, of course.
00:58:08.900 But, you know, in our dreams.
00:58:10.680 I think the perverts have the most fun.
00:58:13.560 I think the perverts are having the most fun.
00:58:15.400 I think the preachers and the creeps are a little...
00:58:19.020 They are not having fun at all.
00:58:20.240 I think if I was true about my own nature,
00:58:22.840 I would probably wind up being a preacher
00:58:25.140 because I love being self-righteous
00:58:26.880 and telling other people what to do.
00:58:28.600 But I think the people who are actually experiencing 0.96
00:58:31.760 something like joy are the perverts. 0.75
00:58:34.900 For sure.
00:58:35.500 If I had to be a right-wing guy,
00:58:38.980 I mean, I'd have to be a creep, right?
00:58:41.440 I feel like a professor.
00:58:42.400 I mean, I would just do Jordan Peterson, right?
00:58:46.480 I would eat a bunch of raw beef.
00:58:50.260 I'd cry a bunch.
00:58:52.040 You'd get a really loud suit.
00:58:54.120 Yeah.
00:58:54.900 I mean, yeah.
00:58:55.800 I mean, I think the options open to me are fairly limited.
00:58:59.600 I think no one would buy me as a pervert.
00:59:03.640 And I don't think I've read the Bible enough to really be a preacher.
00:59:09.680 That feels like a lot of work.
00:59:11.780 Is there somebody in your personal circle
00:59:14.740 that would end up being the preacher to your trinity?
00:59:18.140 Oh, I don't know. 1.00
00:59:19.740 I nominate Hong. 1.00
00:59:20.820 I think your husband should be our preacher. 0.92
00:59:22.380 Really?
00:59:22.800 Yeah.
00:59:23.320 I think he's got a lot of stage charisma.
00:59:24.980 You and he both went to Catholic school, so there's that.
00:59:26.900 There you go.
00:59:27.780 Yeah, so we've got our three.
00:59:28.740 He left, so we can say anything.
00:59:31.220 Well, thank you very much.
00:59:32.480 Thank you.
00:59:32.660 Thank you.
00:59:36.180 Hi.
00:59:37.200 Hi.
00:59:37.560 I was wondering if you guys had any thoughts
00:59:39.760 on like cryptocurrency
00:59:40.900 and why it's so appealing
00:59:42.500 to these guys
00:59:43.220 who already have
00:59:43.920 all the regular money.
00:59:45.120 Yeah.
00:59:46.920 So I think part of it
00:59:48.340 is about the kind of alliance
00:59:50.160 that we've talked about
00:59:51.060 between the people
00:59:52.420 at the very bottom
00:59:53.180 of these weird economies
00:59:54.340 that they set up
00:59:55.100 and the very top.
00:59:56.340 Because crypto, of course,
00:59:57.200 is the thing that sort of
00:59:58.100 makes that very permeable, right?
00:59:59.900 Like you all become part
01:00:01.180 of the HODL gang
01:00:01.880 or whatever, right?
01:00:02.560 And like there's an immediacy here
01:00:05.000 between like people,
01:00:06.640 as you say,
01:00:07.020 who have more money,
01:00:07.760 who don't need that money
01:00:08.740 and people who desperately need that money
01:00:10.600 and probably shouldn't be putting it in crypto, right?
01:00:13.020 And there's this kind of meeting between the two.
01:00:15.480 I think that's part of why they're attractive.
01:00:17.520 Crypto also has a dominance fantasy of exceeding the state
01:00:20.460 and going outside of the state.
01:00:22.280 It's also really good for laundering money.
01:00:25.360 The thing about cryptocurrency
01:00:26.340 is that it's an elaborate money laundering scheme.
01:00:28.640 And that's, I think, appealing to people
01:00:30.640 who don't want to pay taxes
01:00:31.800 or want to make money off of illegal stuff
01:00:34.860 or want to be able to pay bills
01:00:38.000 without people really realizing what they're paying for.
01:00:40.820 Creeps also need normies to bounce off of
01:00:43.240 that need to be different from them.
01:00:44.600 And in that way, they're different, I think, from preachers
01:00:47.300 who basically say, like, you also understand this.
01:00:49.740 Like, I want you to behave as well as I do, right?
01:00:52.700 The creep doesn't want you to do exactly what he's doing.
01:00:55.600 He wants you to aspire to what he is,
01:00:57.540 but like, he wants to have a secret that you don't have.
01:00:59.760 And I mean, like, cryptocurrency is exactly that, right?
01:01:01.680 Like, you have normies you can feel superior to, 0.98
01:01:04.600 and that is fucking cat to these people, I think, ma'am. 0.96
01:01:08.000 Thank you so much. 0.99
01:01:08.820 Thank you.
01:01:09.340 Great question.
01:01:10.180 Thank you for coming.
01:01:12.740 Hi.
01:01:13.300 First, I just want to say thank you.
01:01:15.240 This has been really fun.
01:01:16.420 A fun way to spend this time.
01:01:17.260 Thank you for coming.
01:01:17.920 Thank you so much.
01:01:18.820 So thank you for putting this on.
01:01:21.160 I'm actually inspired by your question
01:01:23.180 because I was thinking about the Zuckerberg comment.
01:01:27.040 I don't know if it was earlier this year or last year.
01:01:28.900 I think it was earlier last year.
01:01:30.780 Zuckerberg's public comment of like,
01:01:32.120 tech has become culturally neutered.
01:01:34.640 Do we remember this? 1.00
01:01:35.420 Yeah, we need to bring back masculinity. 1.00
01:01:36.720 We need to bring back, like, masculine energy in tech.
01:01:40.180 Like, okay, it's been 70% male for the entire time.
01:01:45.640 But I do remember a time, right, like 10 years ago plus,
01:01:51.040 where a lot of these creeps actually were aligning more left
01:01:55.720 because of the Obama administration,
01:01:58.160 and they needed, you know, like, tax breaks from the government
01:02:01.260 to fund all the crazy stuff that they want to do.
01:02:03.380 So there was a time where in the Bay we were all buying Teslas
01:02:05.920 and saying, like, oh, Muskie's going to save us from climate change,
01:02:09.160 which I remember correcting my dad on and being like, no.
01:02:12.720 But that was kind of this, like, narrative.
01:02:15.580 And so I'm interested in what you all think about the kind of shift in alignment
01:02:19.700 where they're more emboldened to embody these, like,
01:02:21.880 techno-fascist right-wing things publicly.
01:02:25.600 And do you see a world in which they try to, like,
01:02:28.000 put the toothpaste back in the tube if there's ever a change
01:02:30.820 in administration or anything like that?
01:02:32.680 I'm just curious. 0.99
01:02:33.560 I do think if there's a different, like, regulatory environment, they will suddenly, like, you did see, like, as soon as Trump won, Zuckerberg being like, I'm going to dress like an idiot. 0.99
01:02:45.340 And I'm going to go on. 0.99
01:02:45.960 Yeah.
01:02:46.260 Okay.
01:02:46.500 Like, I also had a very embarrassing lesbian moment of, like, making fun of his outfit on Rogan and then realizing that I was wearing, like, the exact, like, chain.
01:02:55.680 I looked, I was like, oh, no.
01:02:57.360 But, like, the switch was so quick.
01:03:01.100 Yeah.
01:03:01.300 And the switch was about like, okay, where's the regulatory environment
01:03:04.540 and where do they see the wind blowing, right?
01:03:07.340 But there is an element of genuineness too.
01:03:09.340 I mean, I think the way you put it is right,
01:03:11.280 that they were kind of covering this kind of thinking up.
01:03:13.940 Because of course, they made these head faces.
01:03:16.860 You're saying the industry never exceeded more than 30% women.
01:03:19.980 And it was not a genuine attempt to quote-unquote wokeify
01:03:23.660 or really diversify these companies.
01:03:26.140 They did kind of think like, well, programming really is for the dudes,
01:03:29.400 but we're going to say that we don't think that
01:03:32.660 because Obama's in the White House
01:03:34.600 and this feels like the right thing to do.
01:03:36.480 And woke is culturally ascending
01:03:38.080 and we can maybe ride a wave.
01:03:41.600 I do think that one of the things that happened
01:03:43.180 is that the companies themselves changed.
01:03:46.540 If you think about why do they all want to go back
01:03:48.960 to we need to operate like a startup again.
01:03:50.940 One of the things they miss
01:03:52.640 is not having a middle management
01:03:55.280 that tells them,
01:03:57.040 Elon, people have to stop saying the N-word
01:03:59.140 in your tesla factory this is wild or like people have to stop harassing women at google right and
01:04:05.660 then to make it all worse comes the pandemic where everyone is like i would like to go home
01:04:11.700 at some point and not catch this virus but also like all of those regulatory and like compliance
01:04:17.460 jobs those are feminized professions it's elizabeth warren it's elizabeth warren saying you
01:04:22.840 know you can't launder your money away from taxes it's like a health official being like put on your
01:04:28.520 mask as if like your mom telling you to wash
01:04:30.580 your hands before dinner it's like
01:04:32.400 HR telling you you can't say the n-word at work
01:04:34.600 or like grab a stewardess's 1.00
01:04:36.500 ass like all of those 0.99
01:04:38.180 are positions that if they're not occupied 1.00
01:04:40.320 by literal women are like feminized
01:04:42.440 in the imagination and so these guys resent 0.84
01:04:44.700 what they see as like
01:04:46.580 mean mommies telling them what to do
01:04:48.520 but the thing is they felt more
01:04:50.680 of it I think and I think from the
01:04:52.580 people they respected namely their direct
01:04:54.560 reports basically their direct underlings
01:04:56.580 like especially in the run-up
01:04:58.760 and then during the pandemic, right?
01:05:00.900 Where people were like,
01:05:02.120 look, we're just a normal company.
01:05:03.400 Like you got to let us go home at some point, right?
01:05:05.640 And I think that the chain and the DJ outfit
01:05:08.220 was obviously like fake.
01:05:11.140 But like, I think he meant some of what he said
01:05:13.420 in that interview.
01:05:13.960 And I think some of it is about the fact that like
01:05:16.000 he didn't like the way they made him feel.
01:05:18.560 He didn't like feeling put upon, right?
01:05:20.680 Like there wasn't, you could remember a moment
01:05:22.480 when he was fully in control of Meta or Facebook
01:05:25.020 and then that didn't feel like it was the case anymore.
01:05:28.060 And if you want the story of how that shifted,
01:05:31.480 you can check out my book, which is kind of about that.
01:05:34.580 And in fact, I realized I came here with a bunch of copies.
01:05:38.720 If people stick around, I can give out some.
01:05:40.380 Always be closing.
01:05:41.840 Thank you, Adrian.
01:05:42.560 Thank you all for coming.
01:05:43.760 Have some free books.
01:05:44.420 It's really nice to see you.
01:05:49.500 All right.
01:05:50.420 That is it for How to Become a Silicon Valley Creep
01:05:52.640 and 10 Easy Steps.
01:05:53.640 Thank you to everyone who was there.
01:05:55.800 Thank you to everyone who helped organize this.
01:05:58.140 Thank you to Mark Yoshizumi, as always.
01:06:00.360 Thank you also to all of you just for supporting this show.
01:06:04.120 For those of you who do it on Patreon, for those of you who tell your friends about us,
01:06:06.980 for those of you who review us on iTunes or Spotify or whatever,
01:06:11.120 the kind of event we had at Swedish American Hall is kind of an unusual one for us
01:06:15.100 because day in and day out, we kind of do this job just from our living rooms
01:06:19.760 or sometimes even our bedrooms, meaning it can feel a little lonely
01:06:23.320 and it's just lovely to get in touch
01:06:25.140 and get to meet the wonderful people
01:06:26.820 to whom this show means something.
01:06:28.840 And so thank you all for listening,
01:06:31.440 whether you were there at Swedish American Hall or not.
01:06:33.800 And we hope to eventually make it to your neck of the woods
01:06:36.480 and maybe do a live show there.
01:06:38.540 Thank you so much for supporting In Bed With The Right
01:06:40.380 and I'll see you next time.
01:06:44.360 In Bed With The Right is made possible
01:06:45.700 by hundreds of listeners who support us via patreon.com.
01:06:49.000 Our episodes are produced and edited
01:06:50.400 by Mark Yoshizumi and Katie La.
01:06:52.140 Our title music is by Katie Lau.