In Bed With The Right - July 18, 2024


Episode 27: Biden

Topics
Episode 26: J.D. Vance with Gabe Winant Episode 28: Richard Wagner: Act III

Episode Stats


Length

52 minutes

Words per minute

174.31

Word count

9,229

Sentence count

578

Harmful content

Misogyny

16

sentences flagged

Toxicity

47

sentences flagged

Hate speech

19

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
00:00:00.000 He's not just too old physically.
00:00:02.300 It's not just a matter of whether he's too old physically,
00:00:05.100 whether he's too old cognitively.
00:00:06.700 He's too old politically
00:00:07.960 because he's operating on this old-timey misogyny
00:00:13.540 with which he is absolutely squandering
00:00:16.120 the political salience of Dobbs
00:00:18.100 and of the abortion question.
00:00:21.860 Hello, I'm Adrian Dobb.
00:00:23.620 And I'm Moira Dobb again.
00:00:24.800 And whether we like it or not,
00:00:25.860 we're in bid with the right.
00:00:27.100 So Adrian, what are we talking about today?
00:00:28.560 So today we're going to be talking about the president and the presidency and the state of both, I think, is my sense.
00:00:36.120 It's Joe Biden, his office, his campaign, its future, the state of Republican government in the United States.
00:00:48.480 And before we dig into it, Adrian, you've got some exciting news.
00:00:53.320 Yeah, so my book's coming out in September, September 24th.
00:00:57.360 And I did want to let folks know that I'm looking to get people to pre-order this thing.
00:01:03.200 And as part of that effort, I was able to get some swag made while it's being made right now for the book.
00:01:09.940 And I wanted to let our listeners know first thing.
00:01:13.560 I don't quite know exactly when the swag is getting here, but it should be getting here pretty soon.
00:01:17.320 It's stickers, tote bags, that kind of thing.
00:01:20.100 And if you are interested in any of those things,
00:01:22.600 including, by the way, stickers for this podcast,
00:01:24.880 which we've had all this time,
00:01:26.540 but just like haven't handed out.
00:01:28.520 If you pre-order my book
00:01:29.960 and you send a proof of that pre-order
00:01:31.760 to the email address cancel.research at gmail.com,
00:01:36.400 which is a throwaway account I made
00:01:38.720 to subscribe to every right-wing sub-stack
00:01:41.240 and newspaper for this book,
00:01:43.060 but now it's coming in handy.
00:01:44.620 And you give me your address,
00:01:45.840 I will send you some swag.
00:01:47.860 Adrian, what's the name of your book?
00:01:50.160 My book is called The Cancel Culture Panic.
00:01:53.440 And it is coming out with Stanford University Press.
00:01:56.340 And yes, you can pre-order it.
00:01:58.640 Well, you can pre-order it on Amazon,
00:02:00.060 but like you can also pre-order it anywhere else.
00:02:03.420 As long as you can sort of document that
00:02:05.500 in a way that doesn't seem totally fishy,
00:02:08.000 you know, like a handwritten note from Steve
00:02:09.640 or something like that, 1.00
00:02:10.560 I will send you some shit. 1.00
00:02:12.560 And I hope you like it. 0.99
00:02:14.180 I hope you like the book too.
00:02:15.520 Cancel culture, the moral panic about moral panics.
00:02:18.860 That's right.
00:02:19.340 And there's nobody you want to hear about this more from than Adrian.
00:02:23.620 I've gotten to listen to him talk about this book and his research for it.
00:02:28.060 He actually wrote a version of the book in German and then rewrote it for an American audience.
00:02:33.100 So I think this should count as Adrian is having written two books.
00:02:35.640 Yeah, at this point probably, yeah.
00:02:38.540 And it's fascinating stuff.
00:02:40.420 There's nobody smarter on this than him.
00:02:42.120 So I think everybody should go order
00:02:43.980 The Cancel Culture Panic.
00:02:45.720 And pre-orders really, really help authors.
00:02:48.000 If you guys are not familiar,
00:02:50.160 pre-orders are where it's at.
00:02:51.780 I mean, buy the books that you want to support
00:02:53.960 in any way that you can get them.
00:02:55.500 But pre-orders are really, really helpful.
00:02:57.620 And they make your favorite writers
00:02:59.580 and podcast hosts look really good.
00:03:01.740 Exactly.
00:03:02.320 So everybody please pre-order Adrian's book.
00:03:04.760 Speaking of making us look good,
00:03:06.540 we should probably also ask our listeners
00:03:08.260 to rate and review us.
00:03:09.700 That's right.
00:03:10.360 On their favorite podcast platform, which really helps people find the show.
00:03:14.660 We've gotten some really lovely, nice feedback about the show from our listeners.
00:03:19.780 We love both of you.
00:03:21.340 No, I'm just kidding.
00:03:21.980 We love all of our listeners.
00:03:23.720 We know who you are.
00:03:25.900 And it really makes me happy to realize that people actually listen to this thing that
00:03:29.700 we spend time putting together and think about and have a lot of weird fun with.
00:03:34.180 So if you like the show, please go give us a rating and a nice review.
00:03:39.140 If you don't like the show, please, please don't.
00:03:40.940 Yeah, just don't review it.
00:03:42.500 Some things are best between you and your priest.
00:03:44.660 And your dislike for a bit with the ride would be one of those things.
00:03:49.720 All right, shall we start talking Joe Biden, Joseph Robinette?
00:03:54.640 Let's talk about Joe Biden.
00:03:56.080 Oh my God.
00:03:57.620 So I should confess that fun fact about me,
00:04:00.620 as we talked about before we started taping,
00:04:03.480 I just got back from vacation.
00:04:04.840 And so I sort of tried to tune out of the US election as much as possible, which means 0.98
00:04:09.780 I then consumed like, oh, what the fuck just happened? 0.98
00:04:12.980 Like Clockwork Orange style. 0.99
00:04:14.680 And let me tell you, it was rough.
00:04:17.160 Yeah, I had a maybe like more sped up experience because I actually took a couple days off
00:04:24.560 and went up to Mendocino, about like two and a half, three hours north of California with
00:04:29.960 a friend of mine from college to just be in the wilderness.
00:04:33.580 It's absolutely gorgeous up there.
00:04:34.960 It's like pot farms and cults and the most beautiful views of the Pacific Ocean and the
00:04:41.040 coast that you've ever seen.
00:04:42.800 And my editor was like, listen, I know that you're on a trip, but could you cover the
00:04:48.160 debate for us at The Guardian?
00:04:49.660 Oh, God.
00:04:50.400 And I was like, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, fine.
00:04:53.280 And I covered a lot of debates, right?
00:04:56.220 And normally my post-debate recap column is this didn't tell us anything.
00:05:02.460 we didn't already know. It was a disgrace to the dignity of the Republic and to the office
00:05:07.420 and look at how poorly behaved these impacillic narcissists are. That's sort of what I was
00:05:15.100 preparing to write. And I'm up in this little cabin upstate with my friend who's known me for
00:05:19.860 15 years. And she starts making pasta for us to have dinner as I'm watching this. And her
00:05:28.800 check-ins, like how you doing, become increasingly frantic as she keeps popping her head in from
00:05:35.820 the kitchen of this Airbnb as I have more and more of a panic attack. Because the debate was
00:05:41.800 really, really, really bad for Joe Biden. I talked to this a little bit with a friend of the show,
00:05:49.260 Jeet Heer of The Nation, on his podcast, The Time of Monsters. And he really wanted to make
00:05:54.940 the point that the substance of what Joe Biden said, what he managed to say, contained a lot of
00:06:00.520 political malpractice. And I agree. And I hope we can get to that as well. Yeah. Especially on
00:06:04.660 abortion, for instance. Yes. But the main thrust of the debate, for those of you who didn't watch
00:06:09.800 it, is that Joe Biden was largely incoherent. He was not merely inarticulate, as he kind of has
00:06:16.560 long been and has famously been, he really seemed incapable of forming a coherent sentence,
00:06:25.020 let alone landing efficient and effective attacks on Donald Trump, who he argues and who I believe
00:06:32.900 is a real threat to the democratic governments of the country going forward and who has been
00:06:38.840 for some months now consistently leading him in polls and some of the polling that has come out
00:06:45.780 in the subsequent two and a half weeks or so.
00:06:48.480 Or is it three weeks now?
00:06:49.540 It's two weeks, three weeks.
00:06:50.400 It feels like an eternity.
00:06:51.500 Yeah.
00:06:51.920 It's two weeks following the debate
00:06:53.440 since we're recording.
00:06:54.780 We are recording, by the way, on July 12th.
00:06:56.260 That's important to note, yeah.
00:06:57.980 Has really shown that after the debate performance,
00:07:01.820 Donald Trump's lead is widening.
00:07:04.220 And now you have a serious conversation
00:07:09.340 happening in the Democratic Party
00:07:11.600 over whether Joe Biden should continue
00:07:14.900 to be the Democratic nominee. That is really very directly the result of his debate performance.
00:07:23.040 It was not happening in any kind of serious or sustained way before. He had no meaningful
00:07:29.000 primary challenge. This is something that occurred over an hour and a half of television
00:07:35.060 that changed the race. And so we're here to sort of grapple with what's going on
00:07:41.100 with Joe Biden, with his age, with the masculinity and domination politics that are presidential
00:07:49.060 politics and presidential elections, especially as they play out on television, and to talk about
00:07:55.460 the way that masculinity and the performance of it might be shaping our republic or what's left of
00:08:04.640 it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's got it. And we should say, you know, you're going to hear analysis of
00:08:10.820 this debate and this question on probably every podcast, but of course, we're really thinking
00:08:15.260 about it through the lens of gender. And it is really noticeable, right? Like Biden's defense
00:08:20.640 is to some extent just a masculinist posturing, it would seem to me, right? Like it's the kind
00:08:26.320 of, oh, come on, man, kind of moment from four years ago, just like repeated ad nauseum,
00:08:31.620 it seems to me. There is a not so faint kind of white male grievance politics that have wrapped
00:08:39.580 up and these kind of, I mean, I think Chris Matthews was saying something who like is
00:08:43.340 like reliably the worst person in America, not named Trump, but right.
00:08:48.400 Like he had this whole thing about like, he was passed over in 2016. 1.00
00:08:51.060 And then like, you know, so basically this guy has been shoveling shit all his life. 0.72
00:08:54.420 Like now you're, you know, at the, at the spry age of 81, you're trying to send him 0.95
00:08:59.660 to pasture just because he has access to the nuclear codes.
00:09:02.540 Right.
00:09:03.060 And, and like this, this question of how men are allowed to age and what men are owed
00:09:08.540 and what loyalty to kind of these paternal figures
00:09:12.240 really looks like, seems to be front and center.
00:09:15.040 Like this is a gendered pitch that we are witnessing
00:09:18.380 from the kind of Biden loyalists
00:09:20.880 within the Democratic Party.
00:09:22.860 And the other thing, of course, we're noticing, I think,
00:09:24.520 and people have been pointing this out,
00:09:26.460 is that they're essentially cribbing the Trump playbook.
00:09:31.420 He's writing this out like Trump wrote out Access Hollywood.
00:09:35.100 This is basically the same bluster, hoping it'll blow over and hoping, frankly, that the base doesn't see what you saw, right?
00:09:45.060 Or doesn't acknowledge what they saw and what we all saw. 0.96
00:09:48.000 Don't believe your lying eyes. 0.98
00:09:49.600 Yeah, yeah.
00:09:50.440 Which is, you know, this is something that we know the American people are capable of because they've been doing it with the previous president beautifully, who also, frankly, people are like, oh, he confused Putin and Zelensky.
00:10:01.620 It's like Trump does that daily, right?
00:10:03.300 And we've learned to look away from that, right?
00:10:05.900 But he's hoping to kind of very clearly benefit from that same effect now too, which I have mixed feelings about, but I just want to analytically make the point that this is about a way in which in our gerontocracy, we deal with masculinity in its wane.
00:10:24.120 Yeah, this is a situation in which Joe Biden has lost the capacity to convincingly perform
00:10:32.820 masculine domination, right? But he is still making claims on masculine prerogatives.
00:10:39.220 And this is, I think it's fair to point out all the operations of an incredibly sexist logic of
00:10:45.140 power and the legitimacy of power that we don't have to endorse in order to describe, right?
00:10:51.080 But something that bugs me a little about people trying to compare Donald Trump's own, like, robustly evident mental unfitness for the presidency, mental and moral unfitness, is that Donald Trump has not lost the capacity for masculine domination demonstrations, right?
00:11:07.820 He is still able to be boorish and belligerent.
00:11:11.440 Right.
00:11:11.640 And you bring up the oh, come on, man moment from the first debate in 2020 when Biden was
00:11:21.380 challenging Donald Trump, the incumbent. And he sort of got exasperated in this really kind of
00:11:29.140 ridiculous shouting match on the debate stage. And he goes, oh, will you shut up, man? 0.98
00:11:34.360 Right.
00:11:34.640 And I actually thought that was one of Joe Biden's most effective moments as a politician,
00:11:42.700 because what he did was he dominated the dominator, right?
00:11:46.140 He placed himself above Donald Trump and treated him with contempt.
00:11:51.100 And in so doing, he became like a ventriloquist stand-in for the American audience.
00:11:57.540 For everyone, yeah. 1.00
00:11:58.780 Everybody wants a chance to tell Donald Trump to shut the fuck up. 0.65
00:12:02.580 and everybody wants an opportunity to make it happen, or at least a lot of voters do, right? 0.99
00:12:06.920 And most of what Donald Trump does is make other people shut up, right? Most of what he does is
00:12:11.640 just sort of steamroll you with yelling and with non sequiturs and with lies. And so a debate with
00:12:18.280 Donald Trump really is not a conversation. I think the extent to which Joe Biden was prepared for
00:12:24.860 this debate two weeks ago, I think he was prepared for a conversation and that's not what it is. It
00:12:29.160 is a domination exercise. And he could not perform. He was not organized enough. He was
00:12:34.800 not cogent enough. He was not articulate enough. And frankly, he was not energetic enough.
00:12:40.120 So I think when we talk about the signs of Joe Biden's decline, about his loss of masculine
00:12:46.740 status, there's a couple of different strains or ways of thinking about the diminished performance
00:12:54.440 that we saw in that debate, right?
00:12:56.740 One is about these fears or allegations
00:13:02.000 of cognitive decline, right?
00:13:05.080 There were a couple of pretty speculative articles
00:13:09.460 in the Washington Post and the New York Times
00:13:11.420 about people who think that perhaps
00:13:13.580 Joe Biden has Parkinson's disease.
00:13:15.960 I didn't find those very convincing.
00:13:18.260 No.
00:13:18.360 And when he speaks at greater length,
00:13:22.880 it is often possible to follow what he's saying, right?
00:13:27.020 We're speaking on a day
00:13:27.960 where he just gave a solo news conference,
00:13:29.720 his first in quite some time
00:13:31.860 at the NATO summit in DC last night.
00:13:35.460 It was sort of meant to be proof of life.
00:13:37.640 It's one of a few public appearances
00:13:39.880 he has started doing in the wake of this debate
00:13:41.820 to try and prove his cogency
00:13:44.140 with sort of like mixed success.
00:13:47.000 And there were moments in that press conference
00:13:49.520 where he was lucid and intelligent, right?
00:13:52.120 So I am not really as concerned with Joe Biden's intellectual fitness.
00:13:59.480 Right.
00:13:59.840 I think he knows what he believes and I think a lot of what he believes is wrong, right?
00:14:04.100 But I'm very concerned, much more concerned with his physical stamina and energy, which
00:14:09.540 I think is like the other second part of the decline that we saw.
00:14:14.180 I think he is exhausted.
00:14:16.960 Yeah.
00:14:17.060 He seems very tired all the time and he cannot make a forceful case.
00:14:22.260 I think some of his, you know, verbal inarticulateness, his loss of his train of thought, I think some of that is not necessarily something we could classify as senility.
00:14:34.860 Yeah.
00:14:35.600 But maybe more like just, you know, the exhaustion of age.
00:14:39.820 Yeah.
00:14:40.760 There was a piece that I've been trying to find and I haven't been able to, maybe you'll remember what this is.
00:14:45.080 I think came out on Slate, where someone pointed out that like in the same way that like a lot of people have pointed out that the relationship of America to the Access Hollywood tape was entirely shot through with their own familial relationships, right?
00:15:00.800 Like we, not all of us are familiar with someone like that in our family, but more Americans than not probably live with someone in their family who, you know, is a predator of some kind and whom they've made their peace with.
00:15:12.320 So this has like always been a part, I think, of Trump's effectiveness is that people recognize the pathology, but want to push it away because they're scared of having to reassess their own lives.
00:15:23.280 And this writer, and I wish I remember who this was, was making a similar case now for Biden saying, look, it's obviously much sadder, much more tender aspect.
00:15:33.220 But like, we know what decline looks like.
00:15:35.660 And we know that, yeah, he's not senile.
00:15:38.240 This is not, he does not have Alzheimer's probably, right?
00:15:41.420 But we know those moments of skipped beats
00:15:44.980 from every single, from our parents,
00:15:47.280 from our uncles, from our aunts, right?
00:15:48.620 Like this is a reality we all live with,
00:15:51.140 which makes it so tricky.
00:15:52.320 On the one hand, it's very hard,
00:15:54.740 for instance, to talk to my own parents
00:15:55.860 who are exactly Joe Biden's age about like,
00:15:58.120 I think that this guy should probably step aside
00:16:00.080 because like, you know,
00:16:01.940 that's kind of a final verdict on their own biography
00:16:05.760 and their own, you know,
00:16:07.380 where they have gotten to in life's cycle.
00:16:09.600 But on the other hand, I also think it makes it really hard to tell the American people they didn't see what they saw, right?
00:16:18.280 Because we may not have the perfect, like, right, like someone running around like, oh, did a Parkinson's doctor come to the White House? 0.99
00:16:23.660 Like, who gives a shit? 0.98
00:16:24.560 Like, probably, like, that's not what's happening here. 0.99
00:16:27.340 But we all know or have an intuition of what is happening here because we have seen it with every one of our relatives and we are afraid to see it in ourselves, right?
00:16:37.900 This is time. These are the ravages of time. And it's hard to tell people the thing that you universally know to be true about human life is miraculously not happening here, right? Like this is a deeply human thing we're connecting with, meaning that like, this isn't a bad debate performance, right? This isn't a scandal. This isn't a, right? Like the Republicans are going to try and make it into a scandal.
00:17:03.280 Like, who knew what? 0.99
00:17:04.600 Like, who gives a shit? 0.99
00:17:06.000 No, like, we all know situations 0.99
00:17:09.780 where we all thought maybe someone missed a step,
00:17:13.480 be it an elder colleague or a relative, right?
00:17:17.060 And we just kind of don't say anything,
00:17:18.960 don't bat an eye, 0.99
00:17:19.720 because like, it's fucking horrible 0.99
00:17:21.300 to acknowledge what's happening, right? 0.91
00:17:22.900 That these people that are admirable and brilliant
00:17:25.060 most of the time have moments where they're not, right?
00:17:29.740 Where things sort of are not clicking anymore.
00:17:34.000 But like by the same token, I think that makes it very, very hard to kind of, I mean, gaslighting is a strong word, but to kind of tell people like, oh, this is just like the Access Hollywood tape.
00:17:43.280 This isn't.
00:17:44.020 It's in some way, unfortunately, far more tragic and definitive than that.
00:17:48.760 I mean, I think the Access Hollywood tape, for the record, should have been disqualifying.
00:17:52.240 Sure, absolutely.
00:17:52.740 I think part of what we have an obligation to do as citizens, as, you know, sisters, spouses, voters, human beings is reckon with these inconvenient realities in our personal lives.
00:18:06.580 Although I do agree with you, it's very painful precisely because it reminds people of the sort of event that would prompt them to have a conversation with their adult siblings, right?
00:18:17.400 Like we need to take dad's car keys away.
00:18:19.080 He really can't be driving in this state anymore.
00:18:22.740 Because he is not reliably alert, because he is not reliably energetic in the way that he needs
00:18:30.260 to be endowed with the authority and independence that he has previously enjoyed. And it's so sad.
00:18:39.160 But I think this also speaks to your point that I don't totally believe what has been suggested
00:18:45.600 by some that this is evidence of a conspiracy to hide the reality of Joe Biden's condition
00:18:52.880 from the public. I think this is probably something that has been a gradual decline.
00:18:57.820 He has visibly declined from the last time he was campaigning, right? At which point he was already,
00:19:02.100 you know, less energetic and prolific in his schedule than some of his competitors.
00:19:07.200 But it has a visible decline over the last four years. But I fully believe that it has been
00:19:12.460 slow and inconsistent
00:19:14.560 because that's how such aging occurs.
00:19:17.080 Look, and Joe Biden was never Obama, right?
00:19:19.540 Like he was known for malapropisms
00:19:21.840 and for confusion at the best of times, right?
00:19:24.760 Like this is why I don't buy this.
00:19:28.140 And I think, I also think that in some way
00:19:30.200 that is whatever ends up happening,
00:19:31.960 a little bit of an insurance policy for the Democrats
00:19:35.220 because I think if the Republicans
00:19:36.220 try to make this into a conspiracy story,
00:19:38.300 it's not going to work
00:19:39.720 because I think people know exactly
00:19:41.400 what they are looking at, right?
00:19:43.800 Like these, as you say,
00:19:45.140 these almost imperceptible incremental things
00:19:47.120 that the people closest to a person
00:19:48.820 may not want to acknowledge themselves, right?
00:19:51.940 And you can say, okay,
00:19:52.700 maybe you've been a little tougher on your boss.
00:19:54.480 Like, sure, is that a scandal?
00:19:56.240 Not sure it is, right?
00:19:57.500 Like it's ultimately, you know,
00:19:59.300 it's a pretty human thing to do.
00:20:02.000 I guess the thing that I don't quite,
00:20:04.760 the masculinity piece that for me is really interesting
00:20:06.880 and really kind of puzzling
00:20:11.420 I guess, even though I understand it, I think,
00:20:13.660 but I still am puzzled by it,
00:20:15.300 is the kind of Caesarism that you sort of now see
00:20:18.340 coming out in the Biden camp.
00:20:19.740 That is to say, like, I understand why he didn't
00:20:23.200 sort of right after the debate sort of step aside
00:20:25.780 and say, please meet your new president, Kamala Harris.
00:20:28.600 On the other hand, he does seem to genuinely believe
00:20:31.820 that he's the only one who could beat Trump
00:20:33.160 when in fact the numbers suggest that he's uniquely,
00:20:37.200 and I mean, I think, what is that guy?
00:20:38.760 It stops like everyone's reading now.
00:20:40.000 Now, Ettinger Mentum makes the case that like he's actually uniquely poorly positioned, that you could really run a turnip with a D in brackets behind their name and do slightly better.
00:20:52.460 So, but this idea that he is, in fact, uniquely qualified to take on Trump, which may well have been true in 2020, I guess, but there is this kind of like real kind of bunker mentality, it seems, when we get to that point, right?
00:21:07.960 We say like, oh, we don't know whether he should drop out.
00:21:10.620 That's okay.
00:21:11.340 That's one thing.
00:21:12.300 But the other is like, there seem to be, and I mean, to be fair, the same media that are
00:21:18.340 most pushing this will Joe Biden drop out discourse are the same that did better emails,
00:21:26.800 you know, for all of 2016.
00:21:28.480 So I can see why people are a little bit leery.
00:21:30.760 On the other hand, it is kind of noticeable that people are really talking themselves
00:21:36.220 into this kind of position where they think 0.99
00:21:38.260 this is just sort of rat fuckery. 0.99
00:21:40.140 This is just, you know, 0.99
00:21:41.560 this is just the kind of bump that you hit in a campaign
00:21:44.040 and you have to just soldier on and soldier through, right?
00:21:46.940 And you have to stay on message or whatever.
00:21:48.540 Like, and there's a kind of beltway rigidity there
00:21:51.720 that I'm frankly a little bit shocked by.
00:21:54.080 I would have thought that the response
00:21:55.800 would be a little bit more, it's more creative.
00:21:59.980 Yeah, you know, I think in 2020,
00:22:03.540 Biden's argument and basically his sole argument
00:22:06.080 for himself was electability and inevitability, right?
00:22:11.100 Right.
00:22:11.560 He was the biggest fish in that pond or that pool of potential candidates.
00:22:19.220 He was the most famous.
00:22:20.460 He had the best name recognition.
00:22:22.840 He had, over his time as vice president under Barack Obama, developed a kind of like folk
00:22:30.860 hero status, actually.
00:22:32.300 Yeah, Brandon.
00:22:33.240 Specifically because of his generational disparity from the principal and specifically for his tendency to gaffe, right?
00:22:44.320 He said things he was not supposed to say famously about his personal support for gay marriage before Obama was willing to stick his neck out on that issue. 0.99
00:22:53.640 This is a big fucking deal. 0.98
00:22:55.720 Yeah, he was Uncle Joe, right? 0.99
00:22:57.720 That was the sort of affectionate nickname.
00:23:00.420 He was satirized in the onion.
00:23:02.900 Onion, yes.
00:23:03.960 Back when the onion used to be funny as this sort of...
00:23:06.960 Jersey greaser kind of guy who was like always washing his Trans Am in the driveway or something like that.
00:23:12.700 Right.
00:23:13.040 Like he was kind of clueless, a little declassé, but well-meaning in a way that was supposed to reflect well on him.
00:23:22.320 It was the Fonz basically, right?
00:23:23.740 Like it was Joe Biden was the Fonz basically.
00:23:25.560 It's like the Fonz has doubled his way into the White House.
00:23:27.940 Yeah.
00:23:28.260 And he ran on something like that, right?
00:23:31.440 Being like, I have a non-threatening persona that is intimately tied up in the fact that I am white male that is able to allow me, a white male, to embody the principle of dignified pluralist Republican government in the face of the Trumpian autocratic threat.
00:23:53.760 I think that was always a little bit of a contradiction, right? 0.75
00:23:57.260 The idea that it really needs to be an old white guy in order for women and non-white people to retain citizenship. 0.62
00:24:05.720 I think that was always a little bit of a contradiction in terms, right? 0.76
00:24:08.900 For you guys to be citizens at all, you need to be not in the biggest role because putting you in the biggest role will scare the electorate into backing authoritarianism.
00:24:19.600 I think that it always undermined itself a little bit, right?
00:24:21.940 Yeah. Well, and a thing that I think intensified with 2022, which I think Biden read as a vindication of him, when in fact it's about, as you say, people who have never held the presidency being highly mobilized by the Dobbs decision and other sort of atrocities, right?
00:24:39.840 But it's very clear that Joe Biden interpreted this as like he was able to buck this trend.
00:24:45.100 It's like, well, no, women voters really bucked this trend and they happen to support you, which is good, but not sure you're the one who did the magic here, you know, but he clearly thought he did.
00:24:55.780 Yeah, he thinks because he beat Trump once that he is the only person who ever will be able to, which raises the question of what we're going to do when Joe Biden dies, you know, what does he think is going to happen?
00:25:09.840 Because in his best case scenario, he seems to be seeing his own presidency as a restoration, right?
00:25:17.860 But the restoration of the American Republic from this like Trumpian anomaly in his worldview needs to be bolstered by keeping him in power seemingly forever, right?
00:25:30.600 Because he is the only one, right?
00:25:34.060 And when there's only one figure who can preserve a republic, is that really quite a republic?
00:25:40.520 Right, right.
00:25:41.240 It's a question I would like to ask Joe Biden.
00:25:43.160 But, you know, he's not returning my call.
00:25:44.640 Which is also the thing that just keeps happening.
00:25:46.540 And I mean, this is kind of almost independent of gender, right?
00:25:48.780 Like we had the RBG fiasco.
00:25:51.360 We had Dianne Feinstein here in California, right?
00:25:54.100 Like this idea that like these people have to hold on or else, right?
00:25:58.840 Like, is just, I don't, I mean, like, is that a generational thing?
00:26:04.100 Is every generation like this?
00:26:05.760 Or is it just that, you know, the republic really is in crisis and that's why we're noticing these kinds of ego trips people go on?
00:26:12.940 But it is, you know, it's just manifestly untrue that, right?
00:26:16.960 If RBG had stepped down two years earlier and been replaced by, you know, left-wing jurists, we'd be in a very different position right now.
00:26:24.360 It's not true that it had to be her.
00:26:26.540 You know, things are working better without Dianne Feinstein at the helm, I would say.
00:26:32.160 And similarly, the polling suggests that other Democrats can absolutely do, they're not much better than Joe Biden against Trump, but they're not worse necessarily.
00:26:43.400 So it's just this idea that like, as you say, like there is a, how much of a Republican ethos, small R Republican ethos is it really if it all ends up being tied up with personal rule, right?
00:26:55.300 It's like, oh, I must stay in charge or else the republic falls.
00:26:58.560 As you say, that's the king's two bodies.
00:27:02.560 That's medieval kingdom, right?
00:27:04.420 What are we doing here, right?
00:27:06.220 Yeah, I will say that this gerontocratic delusions of personal exceptionalism
00:27:12.740 is not unique to democratic politicians, unlike left-leaning figures.
00:27:18.700 It's also happening in the Republican Party.
00:27:21.220 Mitch McConnell would not leave his role as Republican Senate leader until after he appeared
00:27:26.760 to have a number of neurological events.
00:27:29.700 Mini strokes, yeah.
00:27:30.660 Chuck Grassley, a sitting senator from the state of Iowa, is fully 90 years old.
00:27:36.280 Right.
00:27:36.700 And recently announced, I believe he's running for re-election this term.
00:27:39.960 I would have to look that up.
00:27:41.100 Grassley 2024, why vote for a heartbeat?
00:27:44.520 This is not unique to Democratic politicians.
00:27:47.380 The objection to it does seem to be unique to Democratic voters, right?
00:27:51.500 This is something that the Republican electorate is not complaining about because they have,
00:27:57.900 I think, you know, firm enough grips on structural and institutional power that it doesn't really
00:28:03.220 matter if somebody drops dead at an inconvenient time while they're occupying a very powerful
00:28:08.160 office.
00:28:09.140 Right.
00:28:09.360 To them, it doesn't matter as much as it matters to us.
00:28:11.740 But I think also, you know, part of the reason it matters to the left much more than the
00:28:15.240 right, is because of what it speaks to about those empowers sort of appetite or lack thereof
00:28:21.260 for Republican accountability, right? And that is, you know, the fucking Republican voters don't 0.99
00:28:25.680 give a shit about the integrity of the democratic process because, you know, the more authoritarian 1.00
00:28:32.000 it is, the more often they achieve their own policy outcomes. Exactly. Whereas, you know, 0.99
00:28:36.580 democracy is intimately bound up in policy outcomes for the left. You know, I mean,
00:28:40.600 the one place where the Republicans have not done this is the Supreme Court, right? Like
00:28:44.440 nominating all these like people just straight out of their diapers, basically, to be like
00:28:50.760 lifetime justices.
00:28:52.040 So there, I guess it works a little bit differently.
00:28:54.800 And strategically retiring when they have a Republican president.
00:28:58.540 You know, Anthony Kennedy wasn't as old as, you know, he could have been when he stepped
00:29:04.560 down.
00:29:04.900 He stepped down under Trump because Trump was a Republican, because he had been appointed
00:29:09.100 by a Republican and because, you know, figures in the Trump administration said, hey, we'll
00:29:14.420 appoint, you know, Brett, your clerk, to replace you.
00:29:18.380 And he cut a deal and he left.
00:29:19.720 And, you know, you can really see MAGA enthusiasts
00:29:23.640 Sam Alito and Clarence Thomas itching to retire.
00:29:26.300 It's part of why they are so eager to intervene
00:29:28.260 in this election, which is another thing
00:29:30.080 we should talk about. 0.94
00:29:31.180 They want to select the boss that will give them 1.00
00:29:33.300 their exit interview. 0.67
00:29:34.440 Yeah, exactly.
00:29:35.560 The other thing, of course, is that like,
00:29:37.520 the idea that a gerontocracy, given MAGA's, right,
00:29:41.420 like, programmatic, backwards-lookingness,
00:29:44.040 It also just doesn't have as much to fear from gerontocracy.
00:29:48.460 Gerontocracy does tend to, I think, preserve things.
00:29:51.400 And I think the difficulty, right?
00:29:53.340 I mean, as you were pointing out, even if the sentences had been complete,
00:29:57.820 the complete flub on abortion in that debate was shocking,
00:30:02.880 given that that should have been one of the three big zingers of the night
00:30:07.200 and he couldn't do it.
00:30:09.700 And, and yeah, like, you know, if the last time you had a pregnancy scare was 50 years ago or 40 years ago, right?
00:30:20.540 Like, it's going to be a little abstract, right?
00:30:23.120 Like, but it is a live issue to many, many people in this country.
00:30:27.620 And, you know, you might want someone who has like memories from this century of like any of that, right?
00:30:33.800 You know, not to be, not to be crude.
00:30:35.500 Yeah. Or who might have a personal stake in it.
00:30:37.380 I don't think that Joe Biden has ever been afraid that maybe he's pregnant.
00:30:40.720 Right.
00:30:41.040 And he definitely seems to understand abortion not as an issue of civil rights, of citizenship, of dignity, but as an issue of, at best, public health, at worst, a real paternalistic, condescending protection racket by which male authority figures.
00:31:07.380 can benevolently exercise their authority
00:31:11.080 over women who are not quite esteemed as adults.
00:31:14.560 You know, so like his answer on that abortion question
00:31:17.360 was that he preferred Roe's trimester framework,
00:31:22.620 which has in fact not been good law since 1992
00:31:26.000 when the Supreme Court and Planned Parenthood
00:31:29.160 versus Casey replaced Roe's trimester framework
00:31:32.840 for states' rights to regulate abortion access
00:31:36.600 with a viability standard and an undue burden test.
00:31:41.040 So he was operating off of 50-year-old understanding the law
00:31:44.140 that had, in fact, not been good for about 32 years.
00:31:46.900 But he was also understanding it in really, you know,
00:31:49.960 generationally sexist terms.
00:31:52.100 He was not imagining the average American citizen
00:31:55.900 endowed with, you know, the rights and dignity of citizenship
00:31:59.200 and a requirement for that citizenship to become meaningful
00:32:03.440 through actionable freedom.
00:32:04.740 that citizen in his mind is a man, right?
00:32:08.360 He could not imagine an unintended pregnancy
00:32:11.520 or an unwanted pregnancy
00:32:13.520 as being something that implicated personal freedom
00:32:17.000 in a way that the state
00:32:18.240 might be interested in protecting, right?
00:32:19.980 And that was really, really evident
00:32:22.180 when he talks about his fantasy of an abortion,
00:32:26.000 like legally a permissible abortion
00:32:28.000 as being one in which I think he said,
00:32:30.480 a woman could go to her doctor
00:32:33.580 and he could decide whether she needed help or not, right?
00:32:37.280 So A, the doctor is a man in this scenario.
00:32:39.680 Right.
00:32:40.000 You know, that joke about how, you know,
00:32:41.280 the little boy comes in from a car accident
00:32:42.940 and the doctor says, I can't treat this child.
00:32:44.980 He's my son.
00:32:46.260 And you're supposed to imagine,
00:32:48.400 like, but his father was also in the accident
00:32:50.260 and you're supposed to like acknowledge your own parents.
00:32:52.880 The doctor is a woman.
00:32:53.680 I know.
00:32:54.280 Apparently when you tell this joke to kids now,
00:32:56.580 they think that the child has two fathers.
00:32:59.020 Oh. 0.89
00:33:00.000 They still can't imagine a woman doctor because of what? 1.00
00:33:03.420 See, they're so woke, but there's been yet-
00:33:05.980 But like that joke would absolutely stun Joe Biden
00:33:10.980 like a baby playing peekaboo.
00:33:12.520 You know, like he would not know where mommy went
00:33:14.360 in that scenario.
00:33:17.420 But also he understands the abortion patient
00:33:20.800 in his fantasy as a supplicant asking for mercy,
00:33:25.360 not as an adult with dignity endowed
00:33:28.680 with control over her own life.
00:33:30.800 And that's frankly the way that voters see it.
00:33:32.660 That's what drove the unexpectedly good blue turnout in 2022.
00:33:37.600 That is the issue that was handed to him on a silver platter.
00:33:41.720 Yeah.
00:33:42.020 And he is not just, he's not just too old physically.
00:33:46.880 It's not just a matter of whether he's too old physically, whether he's too old cognitively.
00:33:51.360 He's too old politically.
00:33:52.900 Yeah.
00:33:53.180 Because he's operating on this old-timey misogyny with which he is absolutely squandering the political salience of Dobbs and of the abortion question.
00:34:04.700 Yeah. I mean, as you were already alluding to it, I guess the unspoken calculus that sort of the Biden dead-enders, I guess we could call them, will always sort of turn to is the idea that, well, there are a lot of voters who see it the same way and who would feel threatened by the alternative.
00:34:25.480 if we were to make an affirmative case
00:34:28.140 for, you know, dignity and autonomy.
00:34:30.620 And Biden is able to speak to these people
00:34:32.600 and they're just going to pack up their stuff
00:34:34.000 and go home if we get rid of Biden.
00:34:36.420 And I do think that there's this,
00:34:38.380 this is just such a figure
00:34:39.320 that repeats over and over again,
00:34:40.900 like that we must surrender 0.98
00:34:42.080 to the very old and the very strange, 1.00
00:34:45.640 lest they set everything on fire, right?
00:34:47.440 Like the idea that like,
00:34:49.700 I don't know, that a Democrat
00:34:51.180 who hates Trump would,
00:34:53.680 after Dobbs abandon the Democratic Party and vote for Trump because, let's say, a presidential 0.99
00:35:01.680 candidate, Kamala Harris, was more affirmative and more strident maybe in her defense of abortion
00:35:09.400 access rights, right? It just strikes me as kind of fantastical. It's ultimately, it's a story
00:35:14.740 about like, you know, if we can't have this and no one can, right? It's not, this isn't, this isn't
00:35:19.920 the real, you're not getting anyone to cross the aisle on the abortion thing who likes jobs,
00:35:28.020 right? Like my mother-in-law is a huge anti-abortion nut, sorry, but like she's not 0.99
00:35:34.180 going to vote for a Democrat, right? That's not going to happen. But like there seems to still 0.99
00:35:38.100 be this idea that like, oh, Biden's out of stepness actually is kind of a stroke of genius
00:35:42.540 because it sort of like allows, it kind of gives an on-ramp to these older, whiter voters. And I
00:35:49.140 mean, on some level, I get it. But on the other hand, like when you get into the nitty gritty of
00:35:53.640 it, it's like a really kind of shocking and kind of to me deeply implausible picture of what voters
00:35:59.700 are really like. Does that make sense? Yes. It is a Beltway fantasy that has animated a lot of
00:36:07.040 Democratic strategists and politicians, most notably since 2016, but really going all the
00:36:13.620 way back to like 1992 and bill clinton right of the most legitimate most important voters
00:36:20.540 are these sort of like white midwestern social conservatives right and that any kind of tack
00:36:30.900 on these quote-unquote culture war issues which is a very problematic classification right to the
00:36:36.920 left will necessarily alienate those people of whom it is imagined they are A, winnable,
00:36:43.920 and B, so vast in numbers that they really outnumber everybody you're alienating by
00:36:49.240 throwing those civil rights issues under the bus. It also is, I think, part of a racist fantasy
00:36:55.160 that the white social conservative is a more legitimate American than, say, a coastal abortion 0.72
00:37:02.280 patient or a homosexual, it imagines their votes as, you know, sort of counting more 0.69
00:37:08.140 or of granting more democratic legitimacy to a politician, right? 0.91
00:37:13.340 But you're right.
00:37:14.140 It also imagines that they can be persuaded.
00:37:17.800 Yeah.
00:37:18.280 Or that they would abandon, if they are already persuaded, that they would abandon, right?
00:37:22.680 If they, let's say, let's say they are not comfortable with your or my position on abortion,
00:37:27.420 but they don't like Dobbs, right?
00:37:29.980 that they would switch over to Trump because, right?
00:37:32.260 Like it's hard to imagine that way too.
00:37:33.980 I mean, here's the thing.
00:37:34.720 It's also an idea of the American electorate
00:37:39.160 that imagines that everybody's preferences
00:37:42.960 and opinions are permanently set in stone,
00:37:46.000 not just these people, but in fact, everyone, right?
00:37:48.440 Joe Biden, if he wanted to,
00:37:52.120 could go out and rally an affirmative case
00:37:55.820 for abortion, not just as a unfortunate tragedy that we have to allow, even though it's so
00:38:04.080 distasteful, which is sort of what he's been doing, especially with his almost near-exclusive
00:38:08.200 focus on health emergencies. But as a pillar of the dignity and equality of American citizenship,
00:38:16.960 he could make it a pillar of women's equality. God knows there's been a lot of people doing
00:38:21.520 that political work first,
00:38:23.120 he could give it legitimacy.
00:38:25.200 He could be on the stump.
00:38:26.940 He could be, dare I say it,
00:38:28.660 changing some minds, right?
00:38:30.520 It assumes that everything's salience.
00:38:34.020 The political silence of every issue
00:38:35.580 is completely outside of his hand.
00:38:37.200 I don't think Joe Biden has
00:38:38.620 either an intellectual
00:38:39.940 or an emotional
00:38:42.400 or candidly a physical capacity
00:38:44.720 to make that kind of an energetic case. 1.00
00:38:46.900 I think Kamala Harris does 1.00
00:38:48.380 and she's been doing a decent job.
00:38:50.260 That's why they keep putting her, passing the mic to her on this issue, because she is just more cogent on the most salient single issue in this election, or at least what was the most salient single issue on this election before that debate, which so now it's Biden's age instead.
00:39:06.300 But it is something where he clearly thinks there are set political realities that are A, unchangeable, B, discernible, and C, must be catered to at all costs.
00:39:18.960 Yeah, and I mean, it's not shocking he would think that
00:39:21.660 because that's why he has the nomination, right?
00:39:23.900 In some way, he is one of those white voters
00:39:27.020 that he's imagining, right? 0.74
00:39:28.280 Like basically, it must be just so,
00:39:30.580 and I must be the one to do this or else, right?
00:39:34.400 Like, why did Pelosi speak out?
00:39:36.000 Why does Hakeem Jeffries-
00:39:37.320 Very passive aggressively and with, you know,
00:39:39.180 a very thin veneer of plausible deniability.
00:39:41.440 But Nancy Pelosi, I believe on Monday,
00:39:44.720 went on a morning show and said,
00:39:46.420 well, you know, he's got to make a choice soon. This is after a week of Joe Biden and his dead
00:39:52.760 enders really circling the wagon saying he's not dropping out, he's not dropping out, he's not
00:39:56.680 dropping out. After that very aggressive messaging, which Nancy Pelosi did not miss, she went on
00:40:02.620 television and goes, well, he really has to decide whether he's going to drop out. She was like,
00:40:07.120 she all but had the hook to pull him off the stage, you know? Yeah. But listen, his case for
00:40:12.880 himself in 2020 was, I am the most electable. That was his case. That has changed. And I think
00:40:20.700 it's really changed in the past two weeks. Yeah, I think that's right. There is a version
00:40:25.620 of this transition, right, that is dignified, that is a passing of the baton, right? Because
00:40:32.480 in the end, people like what Joe Biden has done. A lot of people do, I think. There is, again,
00:40:37.940 a case that some pollsters have made that basically he himself is personally less popular
00:40:42.360 than his policies, because people are concerned about the age issue.
00:40:46.740 I don't, I mean, I'm not, I don't read too much into polls, but like, but this is a thing
00:40:50.900 that people have taken away from them.
00:40:53.640 So this idea that like, I will not run, but I will do my darndest to make sure that Kamala
00:40:59.640 Harris is elected in my stead and does my second term for me, basically, right?
00:41:03.400 There could be a really beautiful kind of passing of the baton here.
00:41:06.560 And it's very clear that Biden world, what they've been doing, as you said, circling
00:41:10.620 the wagons the last two weeks
00:41:12.340 is to make that impossible, right?
00:41:14.760 If he goes, it'll be because George Clooney
00:41:18.020 and Nancy Pelosi drop kicked him off the stage, right?
00:41:22.020 Meaning it's this weird kind of sort of snake 0.98
00:41:26.480 eating its own tail of white resentment politics, right? 0.51
00:41:29.320 Like it's creating the preconditions
00:41:31.380 for them being like, well, not like that,
00:41:33.700 you know, like what they did to poor Joe Biden, right?
00:41:36.960 And it's like, this is the kind of awful choice he's putting before them, right?
00:41:41.900 He's like, there will not be a beautiful changing of the guard.
00:41:45.380 What you can do is a messy palace coup and it'll make you look elitist.
00:41:49.820 It'll make you look out of touch.
00:41:50.900 It'll make you look like you're mean to the old white guy, right? 0.59
00:41:53.660 Like that's your option, right?
00:41:55.380 And I'm like, is that what you want your legacy to be like?
00:41:58.980 to basically create one last kind of Clint Eastwood
00:42:03.880 yelling at a chair style,
00:42:06.220 white gerontocratic grievance fest.
00:42:08.760 Like it's also not, I mean, 0.85
00:42:10.060 it's true that there's always been part
00:42:11.500 of his political appeal,
00:42:12.340 but that's not how he's governed ultimately, right?
00:42:14.240 Like he governed, like he knew better than that.
00:42:17.040 And it's really, that to me has been
00:42:19.100 kind of the most disappointing thing about this,
00:42:21.920 that he did kind of fall back
00:42:24.420 onto this kind of style of masculinity
00:42:25.900 that precisely doesn't say, hey, let's all sit down.
00:42:28.440 Like, I understand people are upset by how this went.
00:42:31.460 I think I still got it.
00:42:32.660 But like, why don't we all sit down and talk about this
00:42:34.780 and figure out what a solution might be, right?
00:42:37.380 Like, that is the one that to them always seemed like the feat.
00:42:43.200 And so they're not going for that, right?
00:42:45.020 It has to be kind of like,
00:42:46.640 you're going to have to drag me out of your kicking and screaming.
00:42:49.080 Yeah, he's poisoning the well, right?
00:42:50.660 Yeah.
00:42:51.000 It could have been, he could have done a model of masculinity,
00:42:56.060 of like dignified self-effacement, right?
00:42:59.740 He could say like, look,
00:43:01.400 I think I've still got it what it takes.
00:43:03.780 I wouldn't have stayed in this job
00:43:06.180 if I didn't think I still had it what it takes.
00:43:08.300 But the American people deserve to be 100% confident.
00:43:11.760 Yeah, and this election matters too much.
00:43:14.440 This election matters more than one man, right?
00:43:16.900 He could have done a Cincinnatus style,
00:43:20.600 noble refusal of power.
00:43:23.740 He could have been like George Washington
00:43:25.340 refusing to become a king, right?
00:43:27.160 Yeah.
00:43:27.420 There is a model for that.
00:43:29.520 Yeah.
00:43:30.120 And it would have allowed
00:43:32.320 the new nominee,
00:43:34.900 who I think would basically
00:43:35.940 have to have been Kamala Harris,
00:43:38.140 although there's, you know,
00:43:39.000 various other fantasies
00:43:40.780 of Pete Buttigieg riding
00:43:42.780 on a white horse like Fabio
00:43:44.280 or something.
00:43:45.040 I don't think it's going to happen.
00:43:45.980 I think it's Kamala.
00:43:47.020 Well, he'll make a great veep.
00:43:48.940 No, he wouldn't. 0.68
00:43:51.060 He looks like a male Selena Myers. 0.94
00:43:53.620 He looks like an elf and I want to steal his lunch money. 0.95
00:43:57.600 Yeah.
00:43:58.140 What is the vice president, if not the president's house elf?
00:44:02.920 But, you know, like Biden could have made this really classy.
00:44:06.660 Yeah.
00:44:07.120 But it would have meant putting this aside, right?
00:44:11.880 Putting aside the ego, putting aside his sense of inferiority, which does seem to be quite acute.
00:44:16.640 I don't know how you managed to become the actual president and still have a chip on your soldier, but he's got it.
00:44:22.220 Well, so many of them have managed LBJ, Trump.
00:44:25.420 But he decided not to be a dignified statesman. 0.95
00:44:27.760 He's decided to be an angry white man, right? 0.71
00:44:29.540 And that means that now either one of two things is going to happen.
00:44:33.140 Either Biden is going to stay in the race and he is going to face down his, as you put
00:44:38.320 it, uniquely unfavorable odds against Donald Trump.
00:44:42.680 And he is going to carry the attached baggage of his age because you cannot tell people
00:44:49.400 that they didn't see what they saw.
00:44:50.920 And he is now also going to carry the baggage of the entire country,
00:44:54.360 knowing that he does not have the full backing of his party.
00:44:57.180 He looks weak. 1.00
00:44:58.720 He doesn't just look weak because he's so fucking old. 0.99
00:45:01.400 He looks weak because none of the people in the party that he is the nominal leader of 0.99
00:45:05.580 believe in him.
00:45:06.960 They're all either, you know, 20 Congress people and one senator have come forward publicly
00:45:12.060 to say that they don't think he should run.
00:45:14.280 As of this recording, there will be more probably by the time this comes out.
00:45:17.560 But the rest of them are leaking like a tank, like a fish tank, to every reporter they can find to say off the record, none of us think he should be running, you know?
00:45:27.940 And that is going to be a stain on Biden.
00:45:31.220 And, you know, it's long odds.
00:45:33.860 It's a very, very narrow path for him to beat this guy, let alone for him to beat this guy convincingly enough that he can then survive.
00:45:41.780 That's the other thing.
00:45:42.660 The court and the House of Representatives, right?
00:45:44.940 Yeah.
00:45:45.200 So that's one option. 1.00
00:45:47.560 Or Kamala Harris is going to get put on the ticket. 1.00
00:45:52.640 Biden is going to be dragged off kicking and screaming. 0.68
00:45:55.680 And it's going to be a Brutus election, right? 0.58
00:45:59.820 They're going to tag her as a traitor to him. 0.50
00:46:01.480 They're going to say she covered up for how senile he was. 0.61
00:46:03.740 And then she stabbed him in the back for her own ambition.
00:46:06.920 He is, him and his loyalists are probably going to be
00:46:10.220 leaking oppo research about her because they are children, you know,
00:46:15.360 And they're not going to be behind her.
00:46:19.760 And she's going to appear tainted by his resentment and by his unwillingness to leave the ticket.
00:46:25.080 Like those are our options, right?
00:46:26.580 And that really makes Biden's term over the past four years look to me less like what he pitched it as,
00:46:34.160 which is a restoration of the American Republic and more like an interregnum between a nascent and then a mature Trumpism, right?
00:46:42.580 like this is not the restoration of a normal functioning democracy. It is a time where the
00:46:49.800 old order sort of revived a little before it was finally killed. Because even if, say somehow they
00:46:56.420 pull it out and a Democrat is sworn in as the president next January, that is also a scenario
00:47:03.260 that kind of merely delays the inevitable, right? Because the constitutional crisis remains. You've
00:47:09.040 got a judiciary that's captured by Republican extremists. You have an executive that they have
00:47:17.220 really weakened, even as if they have expanded the president's power to like straight up commit
00:47:22.560 crimes. They have really lessened his ability to make policy. Murder is fine, regulation not.
00:47:27.740 Yes, exactly. And you have a Congress that everybody knows doesn't do anything,
00:47:34.200 right, that is incapable of actual law and policymaking. So this is a constitutional crisis
00:47:41.240 that is much bigger than Joe Biden or Kamala Harris, or for that matter, Donald Trump, right?
00:47:48.180 We are lurching towards the failure of our form of government that this election itself cannot
00:47:53.920 heal. And Joe Biden is just, you know, throwing sand in the gears, making sure
00:47:59.580 that this slide into authoritarianism happens as quickly as possible.
00:48:04.200 God, that's depressing. I mean, nothing here is not depressing, but that is particularly depressing.
00:48:08.260 And I mean, the way that like these institutions can be hijacked, right?
00:48:12.700 I mean, like this is what this is, right? 0.98
00:48:13.980 Like you have John Roberts kind of doing basically pirate shit with the court. 0.91
00:48:20.380 You've got Donald Trump, who already kind of has indicated that he will not, you know, abide by any constitutional safeguards and that he has the enablers to make that possible. 0.99
00:48:31.000 But then you also have Joe Biden, who frankly, after miming the institutionalist for years, is showing his kind of like, you can either have me be the pilot of this plane or I'm going to crash into the goddamn mountain kind of thing. 0.96
00:48:44.880 And you're like, shit, like, that's not good if, like, all these institutions just kind of basically fuse with, sorry, but the narcissists that happen to, like, have fused with them, right? 0.89
00:48:57.060 Like, this is, you know, I don't understand how anyone who believes in strong institutions looks at that and thinks, right, like, why do we have political institutions if not to say, oh, the person who is doing the job seems to be no longer be totally up for it. 0.99
00:49:11.000 Let's talk about how we can get someone else in that job, right?
00:49:13.680 Like, that's, I mean, there are other reasons to get rid of kings, but that's a big one, right?
00:49:19.400 Like, oh, I'm sorry, a king thinks he's a horse.
00:49:21.440 So I think this war is going to go terribly.
00:49:23.440 It's like, no, you don't have to do that in a democracy.
00:49:26.500 But like, well, it turns out that like the heartbeat of octogenarians seems to be like the number one thing keeping our institutions going.
00:49:36.160 And like, that's, it's not a sign of, not a sign of health, it seems to me.
00:49:39.660 No. And like, listen, I want to dwell very briefly before we wrap up on the fiction that Joe Biden and his campaign seem to want us to believe that that guy will be president at 86.
00:49:56.580 Right.
00:49:57.140 Like the best case scenario for them is that he's still doing this job at 86.
00:50:03.920 Nobody, I don't think, except maybe the most deluded Biden dead ender, thinks that he's got four more years of this left in him.
00:50:12.700 Yeah.
00:50:13.000 You know, may we all be lucky enough to make it to 86.
00:50:16.280 And may we all be in beautiful, relaxing, you know, idyllic landscapes with no responsibilities when we do.
00:50:26.240 Yeah, may we be in the ocean above Coral Gables
00:50:29.320 or whatever will be available to our generation
00:50:32.340 because it ain't going to be
00:50:33.680 the actual physical land of Coral Gables.
00:50:36.580 At least depending on how this election is going to go.
00:50:38.580 Don't you wish you'd stayed in Europe?
00:50:40.580 I'm not sure Europe is that much better,
00:50:42.180 but I guess at least France turned out okay. 0.92
00:50:44.180 Yeah, the French got rid of their Nazis for now. 0.88
00:50:47.480 Well, yeah. 0.55
00:50:48.460 And I mean, so we should do a couple of Europe episodes,
00:50:51.980 I think.
00:50:52.360 I think it'd be fun to do a France episode.
00:50:53.920 I also want to do a Poland episode, you know,
00:50:55.580 Because the story you're telling about institutional degradation, they went through all of that.
00:51:00.160 And they pulled it out, yeah.
00:51:01.140 You now have a Donald Tusk, a government prime minister who is taking pretty bold steps to try and reverse that.
00:51:08.980 Now he has the EU sort of as a framework to work with, but I know people in poli-sci world are looking at it with great interest because it's like, oh, this is the first time someone's really trying to be like, how do we unwind this?
00:51:20.820 And it's really kind of interesting.
00:51:22.240 And there are some fairly obvious lessons there, I think, that Americans and that Joe Biden, frankly, has not been willing to heed.
00:51:30.380 Like one thing that he does is he does use some of the illiberal powers that his predecessor had taken for himself and uses them to kind of reestablish norms, right?
00:51:41.680 Like, which I think, you know, that this would argue for something like court packing for something, something like that.
00:51:46.360 I'd be like, I now have this ability,
00:51:50.400 I have this power.
00:51:51.780 Okay, let's see what we can do with this, right?
00:51:55.120 And it's tricky, right?
00:51:57.760 Like it doesn't feel very good,
00:51:59.940 but like it's definitely part of his solution.
00:52:02.920 So I think that we should do a couple of Europe episodes
00:52:05.440 at some point and think about both how they got there,
00:52:08.100 but also like how at least some European countries
00:52:11.840 seem to be also offering a kind of way back from that.
00:52:15.800 That's a nice little happy note to end on
00:52:18.680 Yeah, gotta do something 1.00
00:52:19.800 Poland, look to Poland, everyone
00:52:21.980 Alright, thank you so much for listening
00:52:24.960 And Adrian, thank you for having this conversation with me
00:52:27.840 I feel like I learned a lot
00:52:29.180 I feel like I learned
00:52:30.720 I mean, thank you for talking about this yet again
00:52:33.540 You poor women are having to talk about this man and his stubbornness on all media 0.94
00:52:39.040 You've been listening to In Bed with the Right
00:52:41.460 Thank you so much for coming on this journey with us
00:52:43.900 Yes, thank you for tuning in
00:52:44.940 We'll see you next time
00:52:45.740 See you next time.
00:52:48.320 In Bed With The Right would like to thank the Michelle R. Clayman Institute for Gender Research for generous support.
00:52:53.340 Jennifer Portillo for setting up our studio.
00:52:55.640 Our producer is Katie Lau.