In Bed With The Right - April 17, 2025


Episode 70 -- Project 1933, Part II: March 15 to April 15

Topics
Episode 68 -- Republican Makeup with Jessica DeFino Episode 71 -- Roy Cohn with Matt Sitman (Part 1)

Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 17 minutes

Words per minute

179.37

Word count

13,970

Sentence count

1,026

Harmful content

Misogyny

8

sentences flagged

Toxicity

48

sentences flagged

Hate speech

140

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
00:00:00.000 Hello, I'm Adrian Dodd.
00:00:08.580 And I'm Weir Donaghan.
00:00:09.640 And whether we like it or not, we're in bed with the ride.
00:00:13.400 So Adrian, today is part two, the second installment of our new project that was your brainchild, Project 1933.
00:00:24.440 So today we're going to be covering, well, all of March and some of April.
00:00:28.720 We'll see how far we get.
00:00:30.200 And I was just joking to Moira that like,
00:00:31.780 we're going to be done here in a cool four hours.
00:00:34.240 And fun fact, these are hard to edit.
00:00:37.500 We went on for two and a half hours last time
00:00:39.240 and I was sweating it a little bit.
00:00:41.580 And so it was Mark who ended up doing kind of a final edit
00:00:44.360 on the thing to get the thing down from an hour and 50 minutes
00:00:47.080 down to a measly 90 minutes.
00:00:49.880 Mark Yoshizumi, our intrepid producer,
00:00:52.380 without whom In Bed with a Right would be even more chaotic.
00:00:57.040 That's right.
00:00:57.340 And unprofessional than it is.
00:00:58.880 Speaking of Mario Shizumi, he reminds me that we never plug our Patreon, and I will therefore now plug our Patreon.
00:01:05.480 We have a Patreon.
00:01:06.420 Please subscribe.
00:01:08.160 We have three tier levels named after three figures that you encounter a lot on this podcast.
00:01:13.560 I think the lowest tier is pervert.
00:01:15.260 Like, that's the entry level is you can be a pervert. 0.83
00:01:18.040 Yeah.
00:01:18.320 And then I think the second is preacher is second highest for $10 a month.
00:01:22.440 If you want to graduate.
00:01:23.240 And then our most esteemed and valued supporters are our creeps.
00:01:27.960 Absolute creeps.
00:01:28.960 We love you guys.
00:01:29.980 The Patreon has been really, really fun. 0.98
00:01:31.840 It's like a little bit like In Bed with a Right After Dark in that, like, I say fuck a lot and things that could get me in trouble.
00:01:39.560 So if you want to hear that, you got to pay for it. 0.99
00:01:41.720 Yeah.
00:01:41.980 If you want to cancel us, that'll be five bucks.
00:01:44.900 You have to pay $5 a month if you want to hear us incriminate ourselves on the Patreon.
00:01:51.100 But we have a lot of fun there. And it's where we get to do some like more off kilter kinds of stuff. But today we are being very serious.
00:01:58.980 That is true. 0.62
00:01:59.440 And we're digging into the first year in power of the Nazis. So Adrian, do you want to talk us through last time when we went through like late January to early March of 1933 and what the Nazis did when they first came to power?
00:02:13.000 Yeah. So our idea, just to recap it for listeners, and if you are new to this podcast, you really should check out episode one first. Basically, we're going to go through the year 1933 as we go through the year 2025. So we're going to go month by month and with a focus sort of both on our bailiwick, which is gender and sexuality, but also on just how it felt.
00:02:37.840 Right. So we're not going to just it's not a political history. It's not an institutional history, even though all these things show up. We're always going to be asking, like, how did how do people experience this? You know, there's, as you can imagine, with the Nazi era, there's a ton of information that we have today that they didn't have. And so we're really sort of trying to give a good sense of like what what they were aware of, what they had to work with and how people responded and how history has then judged those responses. Right.
00:03:06.860 the the reason for this project is i think a little obvious right like there are parallels
00:03:11.740 to our own era where we have like sort of an anti-constitutional no really like authoritarian
00:03:18.100 government that's now sees power and is like really changing the form of our government and
00:03:23.900 in many cases you know just the structure of our daily lives as it seizes that power and i think
00:03:29.300 that you know there there are definitely ways that will emerge in which that comparison is
00:03:33.300 actually quite limited right that's one of the things we're going to be discussing but something
00:03:36.840 I do try to bring to this project
00:03:38.780 is that I want to treat
00:03:40.060 the characters we're encountering
00:03:42.220 in the Germany of 1993
00:03:43.580 with the generosity
00:03:45.180 with which I hope people of the future
00:03:47.580 will treat us in 2025, you know?
00:03:50.420 Yeah.
00:03:50.780 So we're going to try
00:03:51.540 and like dwell on their confusion,
00:03:54.840 their fear,
00:03:55.740 the sets of assumptions they have
00:03:57.300 that are proving to be wrong,
00:03:58.700 the ways that they are prescient.
00:04:01.060 And we're going to be really looking
00:04:02.160 at the way different people's positionality
00:04:04.780 allow them different gifts.
00:04:05.820 Something we talked about a lot in our first episode covering February was the way that sometimes women, because they were marginal from a lot of these institutions and worlds that were rapidly becoming complicit with Hitler, were often kind of better equipped from that outsider status to see things a little more clearly.
00:04:27.600 right? And I think today we're going to get a little more grim insight into the way that women 0.99
00:04:34.800 were treated by the Nazi regime in those early days. The story of February, we drilled down on
00:04:39.780 a couple of points, if you recall. We talked about the fact that in some way, people were still
00:04:45.260 trying to figure out who the victims were going to be. It was very clear the Nazis were going to 0.84
00:04:48.380 have victims, but it was unclear who exactly it was going to be. And like, it seemed to be people
00:04:53.840 with names famous people it also was you know communists before was anyone else so because we
00:05:00.740 were mostly quoting people who are famous for having written a bunch of stuff we're not dealing
00:05:05.340 with a ton of communist activists we were talking about bourgeois writers who found themselves on 0.95
00:05:09.640 the nazis shit list for what they'd written but of course like the nazis also immediately cracked
00:05:14.640 down hard among working class groups and movements especially the communist party 0.98
00:05:21.920 And there was capable of real savagery, which we'll be able to talk about a bit more today.
00:05:28.420 So consider this all somewhat of a rewind and explaining things that we sort of weren't able to talk about last time.
00:05:36.460 So in this part, I think what we're going to talk about goes under four big headings, which is terror, which is the enabling law.
00:05:43.280 It's Gleichschaltung, which means sort of forced synchronization, and boycott.
00:05:48.720 And again, it doesn't mean that there weren't other things happening, right?
00:05:52.480 Events move at an incredibly crazy clip. 0.80
00:05:56.180 We talked about how really Hitler last time needed six weeks to really cement his place 0.87
00:06:00.540 in power. 0.85
00:06:01.240 If things are moving at that kind of a clip, you have to sort of decide to place emphases
00:06:05.040 and just kind of ignore some things.
00:06:06.840 And so it's also good, I think, to always name our sources here.
00:06:10.140 In this case, we're, as always, drawing on Richard J. Evans, which I know you've also
00:06:13.820 started cracking the coming of the Third Reich, which is sort of the classic, I think, account of
00:06:19.140 this. But I also looked at Peter Fritsch's book, Hitler's First Hundred Days. I looked at the work
00:06:25.660 of Richard Bessel, a British historian, especially political violence and the rise of Nazism.
00:06:31.960 And then I looked at a book in German, Philipp Austermann's Ein Tag im März, so One Day in
00:06:37.300 March. And I was able to get a hold of a couple of collections of German language documents
00:06:42.820 from the Nazi seizure of power.
00:06:45.220 At the same time, 0.89
00:06:45.780 I'm sure we're going to leave
00:06:46.600 a bunch of stuff out.
00:06:47.360 I'm sure we're going to have to
00:06:48.120 eventually double back.
00:06:49.620 All right, let's dig in.
00:06:50.620 I think there's a theme emerging
00:06:51.840 and I'll be interested to see
00:06:52.880 whether you've identified
00:06:53.740 the same theme that I sort of noticed
00:06:55.280 as I was sort of compiling this.
00:06:56.900 But the first date of our episode
00:06:58.400 and the first term is actually
00:06:59.480 kind of the outlier from our theme,
00:07:01.380 which is about terror.
00:07:03.580 And the date is March 20th.
00:07:05.600 It's the establishment 0.54
00:07:06.280 of the first concentration camp
00:07:07.960 in Dachau, which is near Munich.
00:07:10.560 Because the theme, I think,
00:07:11.700 of the episode will likely be, there is out and out terror at this point, right? There is brutality
00:07:18.040 galore, but the real damage is really being done by administrative means, right? It's not the
00:07:23.740 violence of the SA. It's the fact that the police no longer bothers to contain that violence, right?
00:07:29.840 It's not the fact that there are slogans painted on Jewish stores. It's the gradual removal of Jews 1.00
00:07:35.920 from all political and economic life that really sort of sets in motion what we associate today 0.61
00:07:41.680 today with the horrors of the Third Reich. So it is terror, but in some ways, the developments 0.52
00:07:47.740 behind the scenes that are far, far scarier in hindsight, which is something that people at the
00:07:53.580 time experienced. These laws would come down and people would be like, well, what does it actually
00:07:58.220 mean, right? For me, like this sounds insane, right? People discovering that they're Jewish
00:08:03.240 because of their grandfather. They're like, I did not know this. And they're like almost a little
00:08:06.580 amused, but they're like, it's also deadly serious. I think historians tell us something
00:08:12.160 that most of our witnesses at the time did not necessarily intuit, that the violence on the part
00:08:19.240 of the Nazis may not have been particularly intentional. Fritsche suggests in his book
00:08:23.640 that the violence was almost kind of an accident. The Nazis had, basically after the various failed
00:08:29.860 attempts to seize power by force, decided that they would attain power right the democratic way. 0.69
00:08:34.580 They wanted to win elections, right?
00:08:36.880 The strategy was paying off, right, by 1933 in a big way, and in a way that really didn't put many constraints on them.
00:08:44.100 So in some way, the violence didn't do much for them.
00:08:48.780 But the problem was they also had the SA, and the SA was really important for them.
00:08:53.980 Remind us what the SA is.
00:08:55.040 The Sturmabteilung is basically the Nazis' paramilitary wing, which had grown tremendously throughout the 1930s and was basically responsible for the fact that a lot of German voters felt that street violence was out of control. 0.59
00:09:09.000 It was out of control because of the S.A.
00:09:11.060 Nazi thugs are coming and beating up random undesirables in your neighborhood.
00:09:17.220 Yeah, exactly. 0.96
00:09:17.960 And then the Nazis are like, oh, we'll put an end to that, right?
00:09:21.060 If you vote for us. 0.67
00:09:22.680 Vote for us and we will put a leash. It's very much like nice, nice Weimar Republic you got there. It would be a shame if something happened to it. Yeah.
00:09:31.380 Exactly. And so in some way, right, you could imagine that after Hitler comes to power, you really want to put those guys on a leash, right? That doesn't end up happening. Even though keeping them leashed would have been kind of the smart play, the Nazis probably couldn't do that. Here we can draw on a book that we still have to do on the pod, Klaus Thieleid's Male Fantasies from 1977, which is a book all about these interwar paramilitaries and their cult of masculinity. 0.56
00:09:59.300 Of which there were a lot. It seems like basically like every political party in the Weimar era had some group of like disaffected veterans who are still armed, attached to them, who would occasionally cause trouble.
00:10:12.400 The distinction between mass politics and like, yeah, having at least people who could rough someone up, whether that was hired muscle for union or whether it was like, yeah, people with machine guns, it was pretty blurry.
00:10:25.300 Which is to say that this is not something the Nazis introduced on their own.
00:10:28.680 This was a pre-existing condition of Weimar era politics.
00:10:31.920 That's right.
00:10:32.340 Although I think the SA was by far the largest by the end.
00:10:35.100 I'd have to double check on that. 0.92
00:10:36.540 These are often World War I veterans who are in all these weird sort of all-male groups and who frankly are just beating the shit out of each other, right?
00:10:49.620 And Fritsch sort of points out like these guys were traumatized, right?
00:10:54.040 Their bodies were totally wrecked by years of street fighting.
00:10:57.200 He has this amazing statistic. From 1929 to 1932, the size of the Nazi party increased eightfold. But S.A. insurance claims for injuries sustained in the line of duty, meaning beating up people, jumped 16fold to 14,006. 0.74
00:11:13.900 Yeah. I mean, this is like a generation of guys who may have had some prospect of upward mobility before in this like rapidly industrializing Germany who instead get thrown into these ditches in fucking Belgium and they see all their friends die. 0.92
00:11:28.940 And it's a really brutal military defeat that comes at the end of like years and years of like really extreme suffering.
00:11:40.740 And they come back and they're not just like alienated, disaffected, downwardly mobile young men.
00:11:45.220 They're alienated, disaffected, downwardly mobile young men with like wild amounts of trauma.
00:11:50.960 And by the way, they all have guns.
00:11:52.620 Yeah. And really know how to use them. Exactly.
00:11:54.480 And Hitler is one of them, right? 0.84
00:11:56.760 Got gassed in the trenches, right?
00:11:59.380 And it's important to note also that some of the SA members certainly were too young
00:12:03.500 to have participated in World War I, right?
00:12:05.280 It had been almost two decades.
00:12:07.380 But these are the guys who got laid off from their jobs after 1929.
00:12:13.360 These people are not well.
00:12:15.300 And starting on January 30th, when Hitler becomes chancellor, they're kind of being 0.80
00:12:19.820 let loose, right? 0.87
00:12:21.060 They're out for blood.
00:12:22.760 They want vengeance and they get it almost immediately.
00:12:26.780 There's a consensus among historians that basically creating its own system of prisons, 0.83
00:12:30.540 which is what Dachau is part of, had not been a Nazi priority.
00:12:34.420 But the SA just started abducting way too many people.
00:12:38.780 And under such dubious legal circumstances,
00:12:41.980 you couldn't really drop them off at the police or at the prison. 0.99
00:12:44.600 They'd be like, who the fuck is this? 0.99
00:12:46.280 It's just someone that you have a beef with. 0.99
00:12:48.520 So like a sort of junta using the local soccer stadium,
00:12:51.720 The SA starts incarcerating people in communist and social democratic establishment that they take over, or even, and Fritja is very good on this, in hostels or bars that they controlled, right?
00:13:04.060 So you wander into the wrong bar and suddenly it's a prison?
00:13:07.900 No, no, no.
00:13:08.380 I mean, they wouldn't let you in.
00:13:10.360 I mean, you would have known that that was sort of the local SA headquarters.
00:13:13.500 You wouldn't have come in there for a beer.
00:13:15.180 But it could mean that you could get arrested by people in uniforms, but you weren't in a state prison at all. You were being held by paramilitaries at their lodge, right? At like some weird weekend cafe outside of Berlin. And like the early outrages that the Nazis perpetrated had nothing to do with Dachau.
00:13:36.840 Dachau, they sort of allowed some journalists into, it was the bowels of these excursion bars and beer gardens that people would sort of like would have had like pleasant Sunday afternoons in in the 1920s. 0.82
00:13:50.320 And now we're under the control of the of the S.A.
00:13:53.360 Crossed the wrong guy in the neighborhood and suddenly the place where you used to go out for like a Saturday afternoon is your prison. 0.53
00:13:59.460 So it occurs to me that Dachau may have emerged for the Nazis in part as like a solution to an administrative problem. 0.75
00:14:05.000 They don't have anywhere to put all these people. 0.92
00:14:07.100 That's certainly the suggestion, right?
00:14:09.680 We know that in the week between the Reichstag fire and the elections, and again, these numbers are from Fritsch's book, the police and the SA together arrested some 5,000 people.
00:14:20.820 By the end of April, that number is 30,000 people, right?
00:14:24.020 And it's extremely unevenly distributed, it appears.
00:14:27.340 It depended on the local political situation, right? How strong were the communists? How strong was the social democratic party in the area? Urban working class areas were particularly hard hit. But as you say, like sometimes if you had an overactive SA chapter with a fucking axe to grind, like, yeah, suddenly you're like, well, where are we going to put all these people? So the problem was not sort of evenly distributed either.
00:14:50.140 We talked about this a little bit the last time, but as this problem of the Nazi thugs kidnapping people and holding them hostages in random houses and bars is emerging in February and early March of 1933, nobody seems to be going out to beat up the SA guys, right?
00:15:10.220 There's no counter-militia by the communists at this point, or is that happening on the fringes?
00:15:14.820 There is some resistance. At that point, the police always will move in and will arrest the communists and not the Nazis, right? So that's where the fusion of the party with the state apparatus is already in full swing. But no, there is some resistance, especially from the communist party.
00:15:31.820 The problem is it's really hard to know who's getting flipped, who is going underground because they want to continue fighting, and who's kind of naming names.
00:15:43.440 The first thing that they try to torture out of you, obviously, are other names.
00:15:46.900 Where are these people?
00:15:48.440 Who are these people?
00:15:49.400 Who is still in your group?
00:15:50.520 Et cetera, et cetera.
00:15:51.620 There's a novel that's not that well known, which is, I think, the only anti-Nazi novel written in Nazi Germany and published before 1945.
00:16:00.240 Oh, wow.
00:16:00.660 It's written by the communist writer Jan Petersen.
00:16:03.100 It's a novel, but it's very clearly based on his experiences as a communist organizer in Berlin.
00:16:11.120 And he, at some point in the novel, it says, quote,
00:16:14.740 We know social democratic comrades from previous discussions.
00:16:17.760 Some of them are so intimidated that they won't even engage in political conversation with us anymore.
00:16:22.140 With others, we don't know whether they're still genuine, as in quotation marks.
00:16:26.620 But the social democratic comrades probably have the same worry about us, too.
00:16:30.660 Right. So he's sort of saying, like, we're all in this together, but like, clearly people are flipping.
00:16:36.120 I mean, they have to be superhuman not to. Right.
00:16:38.860 And then you don't know what the flip really looks like.
00:16:40.940 Are they naming names or are they just getting out of jail and keeping their head down?
00:16:46.420 Are they what some people did, you know, who really did join kind of an act of resistance?
00:16:51.420 Like, do they just go quiet and basically tell no one about what they're doing?
00:16:55.840 Keep it extremely small and conspiratorial from the outside.
00:16:58.800 All that looked exactly the same.
00:17:00.320 And so people don't know all that sort of happens in these working class areas, which is where this novel Our Street is set, is that the visibility of the Communist Party and of the Social Democratic Party, which was everywhere, you know, where there were working people at the time, it goes to zero, right? 0.85
00:17:17.040 Like they have to go to ground one way or the other. Whether that means that they've given up on these quarters or whether they're trying to figure out alternative ways of organizing, it's impossible for everyday people to see and know, right?
00:17:30.320 We talked a little last time about the grief of realizing how deep and broad the Nazis appeal was, right? Like people who are having the experience of like realizing that some of their friends or social acquaintances are actually supporters of this regime. But then also it sounds like, you know, there's not just grief, but also fear, right? Because you actually don't know. Realizing that people have these sympathies that you didn't understand before means that there are other people out there who have these sympathies who you still don't know about. And in fact, you can't trust. 0.63
00:17:56.980 Yeah, but also the fact that people have pressure points and the Nazis were good at finding them. These were often small towns, people knew each other, and so people knew what you had to threaten in order for someone to talk in spite of what they might believe.
00:18:11.380 I don't know if this happens yet, but I mean, famously in 1933, you know, teachers at school were starting to encourage children to report on their parents.
00:18:20.340 Often the children didn't know that that's what they were doing, right?
00:18:23.320 They just related conversation that they didn't know were conspiratorial and reported those.
00:18:30.600 And then the parents went to the camps for it, right?
00:18:32.960 It's really terrifying.
00:18:34.400 And this is also, this is, of course, particularly bad and particularly prevalent in working class families where we talked about Alfred Kahl last time and his daughter Judith.
00:18:44.220 And she didn't know that her parents were considering fleeing the country because they had a really nice house and they locked the door and were like, don't come in, we're talking, right?
00:18:54.740 It's a lot easier for a bourgeois family to be like, we can't have this conversation in front of the kids ever, right?
00:19:01.020 It's a lot harder if you're all sharing a room, right?
00:19:03.860 How are you going to do this, right? It's like these are intergenerational households. They're much smaller. And you have to at some point meet and talk. And the question is how to do that. Just to give you a sense of how quickly this gets really, really repressive and terrifying, I looked at the example of Maria Jankowski. She's a local SPD head, so Social Democrat in Berlin-Köpenick, which is a very pretty part of town in the east of the city.
00:19:29.660 Maria is arrested on March 12th, 1933, and is brought to the Sturm Lokal Demut, which would later attain notoriety, as—this was one of those, like, it was just a big restaurant that the SA had turned into kind of its makeshift torture dungeon.
00:19:51.160 And there, she is interrogated and brutalized by the SA, and then is released, right, after some time.
00:19:58.820 Jankowski is important because she described her ordeal
00:20:03.020 to the London Times for an article that came out on April 1st, right?
00:20:07.000 So, like, there were ways of knowing this.
00:20:09.620 She also seems to, and this is, I couldn't find direct references to this,
00:20:13.500 but indirectly people say that she seems to have posed for pictures
00:20:16.800 with her wounds to expose what was happening.
00:20:20.520 Wow.
00:20:20.920 Yeah, we have transcripts of what happened to her, 0.99
00:20:23.400 so we know the kind of torture she was exposed to.
00:20:26.960 And this gets at something else about this moment that is so galling about 1933, especially the early goings, and that is frankly so resonant with our own moment.
00:20:38.600 The fact that if you spoke out about what was happening, the Nazis would accuse you of making them victims. 0.52
00:20:46.860 They had a really good way of, like, telling these people who were currently brutalizing their fellow citizens that they were actually victims of evil rumors from abroad, read from Jewish people, right? 0.56
00:20:57.920 Yeah. 0.85
00:20:58.680 While the people were very much doing what those people were saying, right?
00:21:02.960 This idea that, like, oh, Maria Jankowski and people like her are lying was spread by the very same people who, like, looked on as people like her were brutalized, right?
00:21:12.720 The Nazis got incredibly worked up about people making Germany look bad, basically, by pointing out the things that the Nazis were doing.
00:21:22.280 Yes. How dare you destroy my reputation by talking about my words and actions?
00:21:29.120 Yeah. As Nando Relentless says, stop saying things that I've done.
00:21:33.780 But this idea that like it'll be above all applied to German Jews or basically the pressure is double. 0.87
00:21:40.820 On the one hand, it is exceed to every one of our insane demands, but also don't complain about it because that would be basically hurting Germany and then we're going to punish you for that. 0.82
00:21:53.580 So that's already here in mid to late March.
00:21:58.120 In spite of this weird kind of information politics where they're like, oh, you can't say the things that we're obviously doing.
00:22:04.420 As with Dachau, a lot of this is still probably out in the open. 0.99
00:22:08.160 And of course, we should mention, we're going to get to Jewish Germans pretty soon. But for now, concentration camps, as in Dachau, mean political repression, right? They mean Social Democrats and Communists and a few unlucky others, right? Labor organizers, some journalists, they don't yet mean Jewish people.
00:22:26.320 So when we get to what we think of like as the Holocaust proper, what is happening in the concentration camps? What happens to these people who are being deported? That is officially a secret. And we can talk about, you know, evidence that people knew or didn't know what was going on there.
00:22:43.300 But the Nazis were making at least some kind of effort to cover that up.
00:22:47.540 But they don't seem particularly interested in concealing what they're doing, their political enemies.
00:22:54.240 They'll definitely yell at their political enemies who survive and, say, pose with their wounds for the London Times.
00:22:59.680 But that's different than actually wanting to keep it a secret.
00:23:02.960 Exactly. The idea that the Holocaust is secret is always a little bit strange to me.
00:23:07.140 I don't think it really was, but you're right.
00:23:09.500 It wasn't covered in the paper, right?
00:23:11.600 Whereas Dachau's opening, Himmler announces in the press, right?
00:23:15.480 The Nazis' own paper, the Völkische Beobachter, covered the event.
00:23:19.360 I even have the quote here.
00:23:20.800 Quote, on Wednesday, the first concentration camp, first, with a capacity of 5,000 people
00:23:25.700 will be built near Dachau. 0.66
00:23:27.020 All communists and, where necessary, Reichsbanner and social democratic officials, Reichsbanner
00:23:31.500 is the SPD's paramilitary wing, officials who endanger the security of the state will
00:23:36.500 be brought together here.
00:23:38.660 So none of this is underhanded or secret yet, right?
00:23:43.020 The Bavarian government in April will, in fact, invite media representatives to visit the camp and report from it.
00:23:50.680 Not sure how realistic that would have been, but Dachau is covered in international media, right?
00:23:56.780 We know that at this point, inmates were still in their civilian clothes.
00:24:01.140 They would not have had their head shaved.
00:24:02.840 So, there was an attempt to kind of create an air of normalcy around these and to sort of talk about it as protective custody. But very soon, newspaper reports began describing prisoners who have been killed, you know, quote-unquote, trying to flee or having, quote-unquote, committed cowardly suicide, right?
00:24:23.460 The murders at Dachau begin almost immediately, but they sort of have to be introduced through doublespeak.
00:24:32.320 And we should say that, according to the U.S. Holocaust Museum, the number of deaths in Dachau by 1945 reached 40,000.
00:24:39.540 So, well, last episode, we talked about like the banning of basically all other political parties. Right. And we talked about some of these people who are already beginning to flee either because they're being targeted or because they like start to sense that they will be targeted if they stay. Right.
00:24:59.780 But this is basically like a formalization and escalation of the same repression we described as beginning pretty much immediately in February.
00:25:10.240 That's right. We'll talk a lot about conservatives and the Nazis today. 0.66
00:25:16.160 This was something that was legible to them.
00:25:18.880 This is what happened in the Spanish Civil War.
00:25:22.260 This is what happens wherever right-wing authoritarians took over, right?
00:25:26.500 So the idea that like, oh, we're going to round up a bunch of journalists and communists, like that's something that von Papen could completely get behind. So far, it's also kind of business as usual, right? Unfortunately, in Europe, 1933. But there's something else happening at the same time, which I think for us who know where this story is going, it's absolutely legible what exactly was happening.
00:25:50.500 at the time, I think you had to be pretty observant to notice it, at least at this early
00:25:56.240 stage. Because in the background, the repression we described in the last episode is continuing.
00:26:01.920 But in this episode, right, we're going to be talking about something a little bit different. 0.92
00:26:06.520 Dachau did not at this point house any inmates who were there for being Jewish, unless they were
00:26:12.940 also trade unionists or communists or social democrats. But the campaigns against Jews were
00:26:18.080 ramping up. So what did that look like? There were sort of sporadic attacks on Jews and Jewish
00:26:23.540 businesses pretty much continuously during the first months of 1933. Are those SA attacks?
00:26:30.160 Yeah. Who's doing them? It's mostly the SA. Okay. And is it like directed from the Nazi party? Like,
00:26:36.840 okay, guys, go rough up some Jewish businesses. Or are they just like having these like 1.00
00:26:40.800 anti-Semitic would occur and spontaneously attacking a Jewish business.
00:26:45.660 So unlike the later pogroms, most famously the Kristallnacht in 1938, this appears to have been
00:26:53.980 genuinely spontaneous. That's not to say that the Nazis didn't condone it, but it didn't really fit 0.81
00:27:00.620 with their plan that much. At the same time, that's not to excuse any of this because in some way 0.71
00:27:07.320 something far scarier was finding expression. There were beatings and disappearances and
00:27:14.120 violence and the police refusing to investigate sort of throughout February and early March,
00:27:20.600 but there's a marked uptick basically around the time when we're starting our episode around
00:27:25.440 mid-March, right? And in Richard Bessel's work, quote, unlike the more frequent assaults on the
00:27:32.160 nazis marxist political opponents the attacks on jewish targets essentially were superfluous as
00:27:37.980 regards the actual capture of power and yet they provided a constant backdrop to the successful
00:27:43.560 political campaign of the nsdip in the 1930s i mean attacking the sdp which had previously been
00:27:51.920 a very powerful political party right that makes sense if your aim is to you know enact state
00:27:58.140 capture, right? Your aim is to like, get rid of the people who would pose a actual or procedural
00:28:04.740 impediment to your accumulation of the ability to do whatever you want to do. Exactly. Jews are not
00:28:10.540 part of that project. Attacking Jews is something that these Nazis are doing because they want to, 0.98
00:28:15.660 and not particularly for a strategic reason. Exactly. Right. It's not calculated. It's 0.97
00:28:20.060 impassioned. Exactly. The idea that the more brutal attacks were against SPD, KPD and trade union
00:28:26.240 targets might make it sound like we're saying like, well, the Jews weren't sort of the intended
00:28:29.700 victims. That's not true, right? It sort of makes sense, you know, that the Nazis would go after
00:28:34.740 these people because they'd been fighting them for years and many of them had gotten whooped
00:28:38.660 and gotten killed by these people, right, for years. Now they were basically settling the old
00:28:43.820 scores. But the violence against Jews appears to not have been particularly instrumental at this
00:28:48.980 point. People didn't demand it. It didn't serve any real purpose. It was just a sign that they
00:28:53.700 wanted to right that this was part of the understanding of the kind of purification
00:28:57.880 that was to come at the risk of making a comparison that's maybe more you know intuitive than precise
00:29:06.080 this reminds me a little bit about the the character of attacks on trans people by the
00:29:09.400 trump regime right like yeah i understand like strategically tactically why they are doing
00:29:14.060 things like enacting executive orders against uh like prominent liberal law firms right or like
00:29:20.460 issuing threats of impeachment to judges who rule against the Trump administration. 0.99
00:29:26.380 And then this shit about trans soldiers or trans teenagers or like trans people being able to have 0.99
00:29:34.320 certain jobs, like that doesn't seem to really have a strategic end point. It seems to be about 0.99
00:29:41.720 like rallying the passions of a base that can be motivated and sort of like take a lot of pleasure
00:29:48.300 and hatred. There's something scary about how extraneous it is, right? Bessel says that these
00:29:53.800 were, quote, almost festive sadistic outbursts by young toughs who wanted to enjoy themselves 0.88
00:29:59.060 at Jews' expense, right? It's really, really noticeable that there is a kind of ritualistic 0.77
00:30:05.380 quality, as Fritscher puts it, to this, which, you know, given the kind of history of ritualized
00:30:12.340 anti-Semitism in Germany and all of Europe, frankly, you know, with people who knew their
00:30:17.440 history, the alarm bells would have been going off. Similarly, frankly, the boycotts of Jewish
00:30:23.200 stores at this point and the persistent harassment of their patrons appears to have been intense,
00:30:28.860 but it was neither that well-coordinated nor particularly effective, right? What became
00:30:34.520 effective was pushing Jews from public, political, and commercial life, but almost entirely by 0.99
00:30:41.340 administrative means. So what do you mean by administrative means? This is by law, right? It's
00:30:46.600 going to be through legally depriving people of civil rights and their ability to participate 0.73
00:30:52.520 in commercial and political life, right? But it's important to note that these administrative
00:30:57.620 means, like the boycotts, sort of had another side, which Bessel also mentions, right? They
00:31:03.700 contain a kind of promise, right? We are still four years out from 1929, right? The stock market
00:31:10.900 crash. We are still in the Great Depression. And this is all happening against a backdrop of mass
00:31:17.260 unemployment and widespread demiseration, right? Meaning there is kind of a zero-sum thing going
00:31:22.980 on here. If a big department store is boycotted because its owners are Jewish, a big department 0.76
00:31:28.520 store down the street might not hate that idea, right? Yeah. If, as will happen throughout March 1.00
00:31:34.100 and April, Jewish professors, judges, doctors, and so on are dismissed, well, that means someone else
00:31:39.760 gets to take those jobs, right? Unemployment, recall, is still super high, especially among
00:31:44.400 these groups, right? There's this German historian named Goetz Ali who's argued that basically the
00:31:50.320 redistribution of plunder was what got so many Germans to enthusiastically support the Nazi
00:31:55.740 regime, especially at the beginning. It wasn't necessarily that they were anti-Semites and 0.54
00:32:00.660 therefore stole their Jewish fellow citizens' jobs, apartments, and eventually their wealth,
00:32:05.620 although they may have also been anti-Semites 0.66
00:32:08.080 it was that they wanted to steal those things
00:32:09.900 and joining into anti-Semitism
00:32:11.500 was the way to do that
00:32:13.140 or turning a blind eye to it
00:32:14.780 was the way to do that 1.00
00:32:15.840 Yes, the Jews' loss becomes your gain 1.00
00:32:17.700 The first six weeks that we talked about last time 1.00
00:32:19.740 are about chaos and uncertainty
00:32:21.500 and these four weeks really are about
00:32:24.260 an agenda starting to take shape
00:32:25.880 It's one step, then the next, then the next
00:32:28.900 All that's just me saying
00:32:30.720 we've now moved on
00:32:32.100 a single day
00:32:33.600 Wow
00:32:34.160 Yeah, sorry
00:32:35.420 So we've gotten all the way to March 21st.
00:32:38.100 March 21st.
00:32:39.280 What a day.
00:32:41.200 Sorry, we've been recording for...
00:32:43.680 Not even an hour.
00:32:44.960 Come on.
00:32:45.820 Come on. 0.99
00:32:46.260 Come on.
00:32:46.680 Yeah. 0.92
00:32:46.880 What are you, weak? 0.67
00:32:48.020 Let's go.
00:32:48.620 Let's do this.
00:32:49.540 Let's do this.
00:32:50.460 March 21st, dear listeners.
00:32:52.720 This is the day of Potsdam.
00:32:54.520 So the Nazis organize a gathering for certain members of the new Reichstag.
00:32:59.740 The SPD is not invited or it's like we're not coming in Potsdam.
00:33:03.700 What is Potsdam?
00:33:04.500 Ah, Potsdam, for those of you not familiar with your Berlin geography, is a fairly large city in the periphery of Berlin. It is the old seat of the Hohenzollern monarchs.
00:33:17.720 Okay.
00:33:18.080 This is where they would sort of spend most of their time, even though they had a pied-à-terre in central Berlin, obviously. And that's significant.
00:33:27.040 The ostensible reason, this was supposed to be the opening of the new Reichstag. The reason they couldn't have it in the Reichstag is the Reichstag burned down.
00:33:33.200 They had an alternative space, an opera house in Berlin, but they were like, oh, let's do it in Potsdam.
00:33:38.460 And it was because of the Hohenzollern. 0.89
00:33:40.420 So Hitler comes to this.
00:33:42.880 Von Papen is there.
00:33:44.520 Alfred Hugenberg, the other sort of big guy in this coalition government who's not a Nazi, is there.
00:33:50.860 President Hindenburg is there.
00:33:52.620 A bunch of the Kaiser's kids are there, some in uniform.
00:33:55.740 Oh, that's right.
00:33:56.600 The Kaiser's kids would still be, like, banging around.
00:33:59.260 Oh, yeah.
00:34:00.140 The Kaiser is still around, I think.
00:34:01.680 Really?
00:34:01.920 I believe so.
00:34:03.060 This is all to say that there's a lot of, like, signifiers of a glorious German past, right? All in one place.
00:34:11.100 Exactly. Oh, and the Catholic Church is there too. Yeah. Wilhelm II, by the way, died in 1941. So Wilhelm II is still alive, but he did not show up for this.
00:34:18.900 So he's still banging around.
00:34:20.380 Yeah. Hanging out in the Netherlands, I believe, at the time.
00:34:22.960 And what this all seems to be about is about wooing conservatives who are not yet Nazis in order to, right, like, get the army excited, get the monarchists excited, get the Catholic conservatives excited, right?
00:34:36.340 All these groups that were like, well, we like some of what these people are doing, but we're a little creeped out by some other parts.
00:34:41.720 Well, here is sort of a big show of like, you know, unite the right rally, right?
00:34:46.840 Like, we're all in this together.
00:34:48.820 Yes, I love their work imprisoning the communists, but I don't know about this other stuff.
00:34:56.520 Exactly.
00:34:57.160 Yeah. 0.77
00:34:57.800 Are you going to put a bunch of civilians and paramilitary thugs in charge of the army? 0.67
00:35:02.480 Yeah. 0.65
00:35:02.820 Our beautiful German army. 1.00
00:35:04.260 You appear to be quite irreligious. 0.99
00:35:05.600 Are you going to be disrespectful of the state-run Protestant church?
00:35:09.600 You appear to be quite centralized and quite nationalist.
00:35:12.240 Would you have a problem with a supranational right-wing organization such as the Catholic Church, right?
00:35:18.820 And these are all people trying to understand sort of what their role in this new regime can be.
00:35:24.620 And the day of Potsdam is like one big reassurance.
00:35:28.120 Yeah. So what does Hitler give them? What is his, like, trade? 0.90
00:35:33.900 Not very much. I mean, the trade is largely symbolic. It's meant to sway voters.
00:35:38.620 Goebbels makes sure to broadcast all of it on the radio.
00:35:42.480 And it's really more about sort of the trappings of power. 0.88
00:35:45.840 because the thing that Hitler's trying to get them all to do
00:35:49.100 is a thing that happens two days later,
00:35:52.360 a day so momentous that one of the books I mentioned,
00:35:55.800 Philipp Austermann's admittedly short German language,
00:35:58.300 One Day in March, is literally just about that day, March 23rd.
00:36:02.360 It's all there in the title.
00:36:03.940 Yeah, it's just one day in March.
00:36:05.240 So March 23rd, what happens March 23rd, two days after Potsdam?
00:36:08.700 So this is the Enabling Act.
00:36:11.300 So what is the Enabling Act?
00:36:12.620 The Enabling Act basically does away with most of the Weimar Constitution. It's the legal basis for the dictatorship that would follow until 1945, right? This is the moment when basically a bunch of decisions that normally would fall to the president, Hindenburg, get centralized around Hitler. It is the moment when a lot of stuff that you would need parliament for, you don't need parliament for anymore. It's basically creating a fully executive, no more checks and balances kind of government.
00:36:40.960 Most historians argue that the events of February were pretty much sufficient for establishing Nazi dominance and dictatorship, right? The Reichstag wasn't doing much. And Hindenburg appears to have just been interested in like, I don't know, pissing in his diapers at this point.
00:36:56.960 But Austerman argues that March 23rd adds something that's in the moment was probably not as important, but becomes far more consequential for what happens later, right? It creates the sham legality on which a lot of the perpetrators could rely as they undertook the various crimes against humanity that are World War II, the Holocaust, etc., etc., right?
00:37:21.340 They could sort of say, well, this is all still being done in the name of the German people and with some constitutional sanction, however, threadbare, right? 0.61
00:37:31.200 This fiction of constitutionality would not have happened without the day of Potsdam and without the Enabling Act. 0.73
00:37:37.540 So this is the thing that makes the dictatorship all legally hunky-dory is that the Reichstag, the nominally democratically elected Reichstag, hands over all the constitutional authority to like Hitler personally. 0.81
00:37:49.120 Yeah. And while we don't know what would have happened if the act had not passed, this is like the last time there's any suspense in this story in some way, because Hitler does need a two thirds majority in the Reichstag in order to pass this thing. And as you'll recall, even after the pretty unfair elections on March 5th, Nazis are nowhere near that. They need helpers. And that's what the day of Potsdam has all been about. 0.79
00:38:14.620 So who are these people in the Reichstag who hand away all of their own power, right? It seems like this wouldn't align with their incentives to keep power in the Reichstag, but they all handed over their own power to Hitler. So who is that and why do they do any of this? 0.81
00:38:32.340 I mean, the question of why has been asked ever since. And I think the answer is different for each of the parties. And so this is where, unfortunately, we have to delve into the Weimar party system, which is in-fucking-sane.
00:38:44.360 Chaotic. 0.99
00:38:45.200 Chaotic.
00:38:45.640 Yeah, it's nuts. It's nuts. There was no, like, you have to get 5, 10, 15 percent of the vote before you can get a seat in the Reichstag. If you got anything, you can get a seat in the Reichstag.
00:38:54.340 Yeah.
00:38:54.620 So it incentivized a ton of different parties.
00:38:57.580 That's right. And by the end of the Weimar Republic, a bunch of them were just kind of in total opposition. They wouldn't cooperate with any other parties. They were just there to fuck shit up, basically. Right. So we should say the meeting happens at the Kohloper in Berlin, so an opera house, and the SA and the SS are both there in the hall, basically, in the voting area in order to intimidate people.
00:39:22.400 So it's like, if you want to vote against this, then we have our jackboots literally outside.
00:39:27.720 Yeah, I mean, Hitler at several points, like, threatens, like, blood will run down these hallways, right?
00:39:32.440 So, like, it's not exactly the easiest start for people to do the right thing, but some people manage. 0.86
00:39:39.380 We should mention the KPD and the SPD together would have already enough votes to, I think, prevent a two-thirds majority for Hitler. 0.64
00:39:48.080 But they don't because the KPD, the communists, have already been barred from the Reichstag. 0.56
00:39:53.020 That's right. They've been locked out by the Reichstag fire decree by Hindenburg.
00:39:58.460 They also, many of them are arrested or have fled by now.
00:40:01.440 They can't vote from prison. And so they're just not there.
00:40:05.000 And basically, the Reichstag decides to amend the rules to be like, well, if people can't show up for whatever reason, we're just going to adjust what quorum is, right?
00:40:13.380 That's so funny. It's like if we can simply imprison anybody who might vote against us and then have a legitimate vote in our favor.
00:40:21.420 It's bananas, isn't it? The SPD, which will be the only party that votes against this law.
00:40:27.660 They are the Social Democrats. They were the biggest party in Weimar era for a long time.
00:40:33.460 And they've been in kind of a slow decline. Is that the CliffsNotes?
00:40:36.180 The oldest party in Germany, or oldest still existing party in Germany, founded in 1863, has had that name since the 1890s. And yes, between 1890 and 1930, it was the largest party in the Reichstag continuously. In the early Weimar Republic, it was the dominant party. Friedrich Ebert, the first ever democratically elected head of state in Germany, was an SPD politician.
00:40:58.440 But they had declined somewhat by the end of the Weimar Republic.
00:41:04.120 They would be resurrected after the war and are now slowly eroding.
00:41:10.800 Olaf Scholz's party, former German chancellor, was the SPD.
00:41:16.080 So they're still around.
00:41:17.740 Then we have the Center Party, Zentrumspartei, which is a very odd one.
00:41:21.880 It's the Catholic Party. 0.99
00:41:23.320 Right. 0.83
00:41:23.800 Right. This is a term we also have in our own era with the likes of like Adrian Vermeule.
00:41:29.120 Like in the Weimar era, there were a lot of Catholic thinkers.
00:41:31.460 We're like, wait, we actually don't think that democracy is compatible with Catholicism.
00:41:36.280 Yeah. There are a couple of reasons this happens.
00:41:39.300 In the German context, especially Catholics in the Prussian dominated German Empire.
00:41:44.820 So 1871 till 1918 were always a minority position,
00:41:50.480 meaning that they sort of discovered the virtues of pluralism for themselves, right, and civil liberties, right?
00:41:58.680 The idea that, like, they needed religious freedom, which were all legitimate,
00:42:02.600 but it kind of made a lot of Catholics sort of be baseline liberal.
00:42:07.480 Am I right that the Catholic population in Germany also tended to be more working class or rural
00:42:12.440 and therefore, like, maybe a little more sympathetic to some of the, like, social democracy arguments?
00:42:17.720 They certainly, the SPD didn't take much away from them in rural areas.
00:42:24.400 The SPD tended to be fairly weak in rural areas, especially towards the end of the Weimar Republic.
00:42:29.420 But no, there are Catholic cities, Cologne, basically anything in the northern Rhine Valley, in the far west towards France.
00:42:38.760 If you think of a place like Trier, Munich is a big city and deeply, deeply Catholic.
00:42:43.820 Oh, and then there were the areas with large Polish population, right?
00:42:47.720 in what is today Poland, right?
00:42:50.880 So Silesia, Breslau and places like that.
00:42:54.100 There, the center sort of was kind of anti-nationalist, right?
00:42:57.960 Like it would be weird for someone who's like
00:42:59.560 Polish person living in occupied territory
00:43:03.040 being like, I am for Germanization. 0.95
00:43:05.920 People got there, some people got there,
00:43:07.520 but it's not the most intuitive position to take.
00:43:11.240 And so the center had been kind of a big force
00:43:14.540 for kind of liberalism and centrism and hence the name.
00:43:17.340 But it had, as you say, started to open itself up to authoritarianism, not necessarily fascism, but there were just a lot of authoritarian governments around Europe at the time that, as part of their reactionary project, advocated a return to busy Catholic doctrine and the importance of the Catholic Church.
00:43:40.440 Right. Think of Francisco Franco in Spain. Think of, you know, events in Austria. Think of Hungary. Think of Poland. Right. Like the idea that like right wing parties could be ascendant and kind of restore Catholicism to what many Catholics, many conservative Catholics felt was its rightful place in society and to restore the societal order that Catholicism frankly still envisions.
00:44:06.340 sorry, is, you know, it just made a lot of sense to these voters. And so the center sort of started
00:44:12.320 tacking to the right. The guy who's running it at the time, Prelate Ludwig Haas, basically ends up
00:44:19.720 telling his party to vote for this law based on assurances from Hitler that he wouldn't come for
00:44:26.220 the Catholic Church, right? So he's there not advocating for the German constitution or state 0.57
00:44:30.840 at all. He's there kind of advocating for the Vatican. And in fact, once the center party is
00:44:35.580 dissolved, which happens like three months later, he goes to Rome and starts negotiating a treaty,
00:44:42.780 a concordance with Nazi Germany as a representative of the Vatican. So like,
00:44:47.960 you know, not to get all Charlie and the board of crazy here, but like there's a very specific
00:44:51.880 form of Catholicism that's at work here and that already is kind of making its peace with what is
00:44:57.760 about to happen. Then who else do we got? The next is the German state party, the Deutsche
00:45:02.020 Staatspartei. These are the liberals. And this is a story that's just going to blow your mind
00:45:06.900 because you'll never have heard it before. So the liberals, sort of pro-business, socially liberal,
00:45:13.920 this was a party called the DDP. They kept getting clobbered in elections after the Great
00:45:18.360 Depression started and by 1930 merged with another party, which was virulently nationalist
00:45:24.580 and anti-Semitic. Oh my God. Okay. So they're like, what if we just track to the right? That
00:45:28.380 will work yeah exactly they were a business party with also pronounced populist nationalist edge
00:45:33.740 oh wow so and they voted yes in a total shocker yeah um quote in the interest of the people and
00:45:41.860 the fatherland and expecting a lawful use of these powers we will put aside our serious
00:45:46.820 reservations and approve the enabling act oh okay great the susan collins award goes to
00:45:52.320 the German state party.
00:45:55.080 One little nugget
00:45:56.740 in terms of like
00:45:57.580 whether these people ever
00:45:58.720 were called to account
00:46:00.000 for any of this.
00:46:00.980 They had only five votes
00:46:02.640 in the Reichstag at the time,
00:46:04.420 the German state party.
00:46:05.660 But one of them,
00:46:06.520 Theodor Heuss,
00:46:07.200 would end up becoming
00:46:08.400 Germany's first president.
00:46:09.780 So no, no.
00:46:11.360 So post-war Germany, right? 0.73
00:46:12.780 Like, so no real accountability
00:46:14.320 for, you know,
00:46:15.540 clubbing democracy over the head 0.64
00:46:16.860 like a baby seal. 0.88
00:46:18.160 Wow, great.
00:46:19.020 Okay.
00:46:22.320 So who else do we have?
00:46:35.360 So we have the DNVP, the German Nationalist People's Party, founded in 1918, which is basically like,
00:46:44.000 They are for nationalism, national liberalism, anti-Semitism, imperial, monarchist conservatism, and ethnoconservatism. 0.89
00:46:52.600 So why aren't they just Nazis? 0.87
00:46:54.200 I know! 0.69
00:46:54.820 Why are they? It's people in a different party.
00:46:56.640 They're somehow not Nazis.
00:46:58.780 I'm like, yeah, okay. 0.88
00:47:00.820 We're the party of quacking like a duck, walking like a duck, but not being ducks.
00:47:04.720 The party of sparkling wine, if you will.
00:47:07.140 Yes, yes.
00:47:07.880 Yeah.
00:47:08.620 It's like, well, you see.
00:47:09.520 No, it's very strange.
00:47:12.460 I think the important thing here is the monarchism, right?
00:47:16.640 The Nazis were not interested in a restoration of the imperial monarchy.
00:47:22.060 They didn't like the Hohenzollerns. 0.72
00:47:24.680 They were modernists in that way. 0.84
00:47:26.240 They were like, we have to create a new Germany.
00:47:27.760 We're not going back to an old one.
00:47:29.240 These people did want to go back.
00:47:30.660 They were reactionaries.
00:47:32.060 And there's some indication, right, that a lot of these right-wingers fooled themselves into believing, oh, this little thug is not going to last, but we're going to use it to reestablish a Kaiser.
00:47:41.100 Right, yeah.
00:47:41.740 And so that's the difference, I guess, here. You could imagine that for the average voter, like, that doesn't mean squat, right? And so the party had gotten pretty seriously ground up by the rise of the Nazis. They kept trying to sort of be like, hey, do you guys want to, like, form a government together? Do you want to do something together? Do you want to hang out? Maybe Sunday? I'm free on Sunday. And the Nazis were like, no, we're good, bro. We're okay.
00:48:06.780 The Nazis were just kind of like, well, we don't seem to need these people. 0.82
00:48:09.500 And it made sense. 0.90
00:48:10.780 Like the memories of the empire were kind of receding into the distance.
00:48:15.780 It was still a pretty young society, right?
00:48:18.100 It had been a minute.
00:48:19.860 The empire had only been formed in the 1870s, right?
00:48:22.680 Exactly.
00:48:23.160 Yeah.
00:48:23.680 So it's not like there's a long tradition.
00:48:25.800 Like there's people who are alive who were born before then.
00:48:29.520 Yeah. 0.79
00:48:29.720 And then, you know, Germany had been a republic for approximately 20 minutes and that had gone terribly.
00:48:35.280 So people aren't really invested as much in these previous forms of government, right?
00:48:39.940 The past that they're drawing from is more nebulous, more mythological than historical.
00:48:45.740 Yeah.
00:48:45.940 At which point, like, you can take or leave the Kaiser, right? 0.85
00:48:49.540 It can be a Kaiser, it can be Hitler, who cares, right? 0.89
00:48:51.840 Exactly. 0.70
00:48:52.760 And probably the reason why the DNVP still stuck around at all was that they had a sugar
00:48:58.280 down.
00:48:58.440 Oh my God, the whole thing is funded by one right-wing rich guy?
00:49:01.640 Yes.
00:49:01.900 Oh my God, this is too real.
00:49:03.900 Yes. This is the publisher Alfred Hugenberg, who's basically the Rupert Murdoch of the Weimar Republic and who used his yellow journalism rags and all that shit to basically undercut the constitutional order at every step and every chance he got. Lovely. He's the reason why this party sort of still limps along. 0.97
00:49:22.400 Like so many think tanks or magazines, you're like, who even reads this? And it's one guy and he's cutting the check for the whole thing.
00:49:31.360 The important thing to note here, by the way, like, as we're talking about, like, these Nazi antisemitic excesses, like, the DNVP is massively antisemitic, right? 0.59
00:49:39.440 This is, like, part of their whole deal, meaning the idea that they're going to step in and be like, not like that.
00:49:44.620 Oh, my God.
00:49:45.460 You know, like, it's fantastical.
00:49:47.540 Like, these people were fine with that part of it.
00:49:50.700 It was the Kaiser part that they were upset about, right?
00:49:53.260 Nobody seems to have, like, a principled opposition to antisemitism or a principled commitment to pluralism. 0.94
00:49:58.600 Well, I mean, the people who are currently getting the shit knocked out of them in some restaurant that the SA owns, yes, they are. 0.71
00:50:05.060 But, and I suppose the Liberal Party probably, but like. 0.94
00:50:08.380 It doesn't seem like there's a big like pro-democracy or pro-pluralism representation in the Reichstag right now.
00:50:14.360 Also, part of it is just that the entire political spectrum has drifted so far to the right.
00:50:18.720 There are really only two parties left of center left, and they are just, they're getting.
00:50:24.680 They're getting disappeared, yeah.
00:50:25.860 Yeah. The final party I briefly want to talk about, there are some other ones. I ain't reading all that. Happy for you, though, or sorry that happened.
00:50:34.340 That's you texting the Weimar party system. Okay.
00:50:36.660 Yeah, exactly. It's the BVP, the Bavarian People Party.
00:50:40.880 Tell me about the BVP.
00:50:42.280 So this is exactly what you were sort of thinking about when you were asking about the center. This had a rural Catholic base, right?
00:50:48.680 Okay. In Bavaria only. And because of that, it was one of the rare right wing parties that really didn't have much to fear from the Nazis. Their base does not appear to have drifted towards the Nazis very much. So they just vote for it for the fuck of it. Who knows? 0.66
00:51:02.340 I feel like whenever we're talking about Germany, you talk about Bavaria with like a sigh.
00:51:09.180 Is that like your, is it like your Alabama?
00:51:11.280 It's our Texas.
00:51:12.300 How so?
00:51:12.780 It's Alabama with more money.
00:51:14.240 Okay, it's Texas.
00:51:15.200 And a huge complex about like how you really have to understand them.
00:51:18.660 And I'm like, I really don't.
00:51:20.420 They're right wing, they're moneyed.
00:51:21.940 They've got their insular cultural, like self-regard.
00:51:25.540 Yeah, that's Texas.
00:51:26.580 Is there anything you ever, I'm like, okay, they have, they've got some charm.
00:51:29.620 Like Texas really does have good barbecue.
00:51:31.780 Yeah, I mean, like a beer garden is a nice thing.
00:51:33.960 I mean. 0.99
00:51:35.420 But like they are a thorn in the side of German attempts to like modernize. 0.99
00:51:41.200 Yeah, yeah, generally.
00:51:43.040 Bavaria did hold out longer against the Nazis.
00:51:45.080 I mean, like a week longer than some other parts, precisely because it had this local base.
00:51:50.400 So sometimes that localism can be helpful, right?
00:51:54.240 It can help sort of sustain pluralism.
00:51:56.020 But in the end, Bavarian particularism has always, if we have any Bavarian listeners, I'm sorry, but prove me wrong, has always had a tendency to accommodate itself to state authoritarianism, basically.
00:52:07.800 Yeah, in the end, it's just the SPD that votes against the law.
00:52:11.060 Once again, while the thugs are standing outside, this is at great personal risk.
00:52:14.760 Exactly.
00:52:15.220 They're voting against the enabling law.
00:52:17.200 Yeah, exactly. And it's 94 against, but that's because 26 members of the SPD can't make it on account of they're already arrested.
00:52:24.680 And as the head of the parliamentary group, Otto Wels, puts it, quote, you can take away our freedom in our lives, but you can't take away our honor, which completely sets off the Nazis.
00:52:35.400 Hitler takes the rostrum and launches into this insane rant, goes on about the lack of honor among Social Democrats, right?
00:52:41.960 Like the honor part really gets to him.
00:52:43.640 He talks about the persecution that the Nazis sort of had allegedly suffered at the hands of the Social Democrats, specifically by, you know, being held to account legally for crimes that they had committed, something that Nazis, and you may know this or not know this, are deeply allergic to, just deeply allergic to any accountability, really.
00:53:02.080 And anyway, Hitler concludes with the line, I don't want you to vote for this law. 0.62
00:53:06.300 Germany shall be free, but not through you, which is in the midst of all this awfulness does feel like a housewives line, frankly.
00:53:13.320 Yeah, he's unfailingly petty.
00:53:15.880 He's like, I'm not a scoundrel. 0.99
00:53:18.360 You're a scoundrel. 1.00
00:53:19.500 You know, you're the puppet. 1.00
00:53:20.520 It's got this like petulant woundedness to it.
00:53:23.640 It is, right?
00:53:24.260 Like in the moment, Goebbels has a diary entry
00:53:26.980 where it's like a full triumph.
00:53:28.420 He's just experiencing this thing as like, wow.
00:53:30.740 Like we are, like he sounds almost a little surprised. 1.00
00:53:33.720 Like we are playing these people like a fucking fiddle. 0.99
00:53:35.940 I mean, the promises that they extract from the Nazis, 0.99
00:53:39.400 that several of these parties extract from the Nazis,
00:53:40.960 the Nazis won't put in writing. 0.69
00:53:42.880 Oh, my God. 0.96
00:53:43.480 And they're like, OK, cool.
00:53:45.260 And the Nazis are like, wait, what?
00:53:46.720 We didn't think it was going to be that easy, right? 0.65
00:53:49.520 But you're right.
00:53:50.780 That does not appear to be how Hitler experiences it.
00:53:53.540 He is still a street fighter. 0.78
00:53:56.500 He's still always punching back, right?
00:53:59.040 He still has a chip on his shoulder.
00:54:01.260 It's really quite remarkable.
00:54:03.420 And my impression is that at least from the diary entry for that day,
00:54:06.860 Goebbels doesn't feel that way.
00:54:07.940 He's like, we really are in charge now. 0.87
00:54:09.660 So Hitler can't even take a win. 0.96
00:54:11.820 Yeah. 0.99
00:54:12.260 So now we can jump a little bit into the future because I'm mindful that I don't want to get a text from Mark saying, I will kill you.
00:54:21.100 Sorry, Mark.
00:54:22.260 Yeah. 0.73
00:54:23.120 March 31st is when the provisional law to bring the states into line with the Reich comes out.
00:54:29.440 It's a kind of a mouthful.
00:54:30.820 In German, it's called the Gleichschaltungsgesetz.
00:54:32.860 So it's the synchronization law.
00:54:35.320 What this means is the composition of state parliaments now has to mirror those of the Reichstag, meaning the regional parliaments are no longer a counterweight to the national government the way it was intended.
00:54:45.360 They are reflections of it.
00:54:46.360 Is it that you can't have like a different proportion of parties in your state government?
00:54:50.480 That's right. 0.50
00:54:50.900 So like if the Reichstag is controlled by the Nazis, your Prussian parliament is also controlled by the Nazis. 0.67
00:54:56.060 That's right. 0.72
00:54:56.460 Okay. 0.67
00:54:56.780 In practice, all this means is that like people haphazardly lose their parliamentary jobs in favor of a Nazi, right? 0.64
00:55:03.600 It's complete chaos, doesn't make any sense. 0.67
00:55:06.580 There's another law on April 7th, another sort of synchronization law that appoints
00:55:10.800 local governors.
00:55:12.200 But the word Gleichschaltung goes way beyond that.
00:55:15.640 It kind of starts naming an entire process that I think Richard Evans describes very,
00:55:19.960 very well, and that is probably going to occupy us for some of this episode and then some
00:55:24.740 of the next, because this extends well into May.
00:55:27.600 It basically comes to define this period in time.
00:55:30.480 It's the purge of all those who aren't aligned with the Nazi state from any positions of authority, right?
00:55:37.120 So synchronization means we're just getting rid of all political opponents.
00:55:41.560 Exactly. It's our guys. It's not even opponents, right? Opponents probably already in jail.
00:55:45.720 It's about like anyone who doesn't belong to our little club, right?
00:55:49.500 So like the Project 2025 prescription is like, okay, what we're going to do is we're going to purge a federal bureaucracy and we're going to put in like pro-Trump functionaries.
00:55:57.260 It's getting rid of anybody who's in these positions that isn't like 100 percent on board and accountable to us so that we can make sure we have like unified control of all levels of government.
00:56:08.240 Your words, not mine.
00:56:09.020 But yes, this is exactly what it is.
00:56:11.020 And it happens in a bunch of ways, which I think give us a little bit of a sense of how March to April 1933 would have felt.
00:56:21.700 Because this is the part of it that in everyone's diary sort of shows up.
00:56:25.760 Like, if you didn't have a lot of communist friends, if you weren't politically active, the February stuff would have been kind of distant rumbles for you.
00:56:33.280 Now, right, your mayor is different.
00:56:35.500 The guy at the insurance company is different.
00:56:37.660 The teacher suddenly loses their job.
00:56:39.760 The professor that you worked for is gone, right?
00:56:42.360 Like, this newspaper suddenly has to close, right?
00:56:44.820 It really changes the world around people very, very quickly.
00:56:50.840 And part of that is because it's no longer just the Nazis doing it.
00:56:54.120 This is where we're starting to see broader based social movement towards the Nazi state. 0.52
00:57:00.500 Maybe I'll just walk you through like four strategies that basically the Nazis use for this. 0.64
00:57:04.520 Yeah, like how do they do all this?
00:57:05.960 Because it also seems like a huge administrative burden.
00:57:08.660 It is, yeah.
00:57:09.360 The first strategy is just in the case of mayors and local leaders, it's just a mini coup.
00:57:16.080 Fritsche tells the story, this is probably one of the most famous ones, in Braunschweig,
00:57:20.680 So in northern Germany, the mayor Ernst Böhme there is SPD.
00:57:26.680 In 1933, he's still in office, but by March 1933, he basically can't conduct business anymore.
00:57:33.060 These armed thugs sort of will show up.
00:57:35.020 And when he calls the police, the police arrest him.
00:57:37.420 He's then brought to one of these SA prisons. 0.52
00:57:39.900 And eventually, on the 13th of March, he's stripped of his job by the new governor of the state, basically, that Hitler had put in power. 0.64
00:57:49.620 But he's allowed to be in the town hall, but like under protective custody of the SA, basically. 0.71
00:57:57.760 Then he's completely removed from office, replaced by the local Nazi leader.
00:58:02.420 And then the 25th of March, he's arrested at home and brought to a former SPD kind of social club that the SA had taken over and is tortured there until he signs a document,
00:58:16.460 basically handing over his job,
00:58:19.340 confessing to all kinds of weird crimes.
00:58:21.640 After that, they move him to a regular prison.
00:58:24.380 And they see there's an interim mayor in place
00:58:26.820 until October 1933,
00:58:28.360 when there's a quote-unquote election.
00:58:30.440 It's a sham election.
00:58:31.480 And a guy from the NSDAP,
00:58:34.140 shockingly, wins that one.
00:58:35.780 So that sort of gives you a sense
00:58:37.740 of how this can happen, right?
00:58:39.080 Like you have a local leader
00:58:40.460 who's popular, who has support,
00:58:42.220 who most likely would have won another election.
00:58:44.400 Well, you can't have that.
00:58:45.520 So you do this mix of like legal stuff and these street thugs kind of coming in.
00:58:51.740 There's like a little bit of formal cover and then there's an underlying reality of just violence.
00:58:56.740 Yeah. And the violence arguing that like this is the will of the people.
00:59:00.620 This is the fury of the people now coming for you.
00:59:02.860 It's like this guy won an election, man.
00:59:04.380 Like that seems like the will of the people to me.
00:59:06.740 But like, no, like the SA basically takes the mantle of the people.
00:59:11.320 Right. Like it's not just that like the Nazis want you out.
00:59:14.000 the people want you out.
00:59:15.300 The people no longer trust you. 1.00
00:59:16.920 The will of the Germans 0.87
00:59:17.920 is now embodied by the Nazis. 0.99
00:59:20.480 And anybody who is German
00:59:21.800 and doesn't agree with the Nazis 1.00
00:59:22.880 is not a real German
00:59:23.900 and gets excluded. 1.00
00:59:24.940 Like the real Germans want this 1.00
00:59:26.860 and therefore we are acting 0.98
00:59:28.120 in their interests.
00:59:28.940 There's sort of an attempt
00:59:29.900 to sort of make it seem
00:59:30.640 like a popular uprising.
00:59:31.840 It's not.
00:59:32.280 It's just a bunch of local,
00:59:34.240 you know, hooligans, basically.
00:59:36.100 But, you know, the idea is like
00:59:37.880 this was, you know,
00:59:39.320 an unfortunate upwelling
00:59:40.540 of popular anger, right?
00:59:42.360 And like, well, no, it wasn't.
00:59:43.340 It was your paramilitary group that did it.
00:59:46.260 Strategy number two is, in the case of many institutions, it simply consisted of an administrative
00:59:51.460 reorganization, which could then purge members.
00:59:55.240 What is it that they say in like the meeting where you realize you're going to be laid
00:59:58.220 off?
00:59:58.500 They're like, we're retooling to be more efficient for future challenges.
01:00:01.580 And it's like, OK, we're all like we're all getting fired.
01:00:04.780 And that means the people who you don't think are on board with your agenda are the ones
01:00:10.540 getting fired.
01:00:11.220 Yeah, but the reorg goes even further. This is something that listeners who are paying attention to what's happening in Colombia and other places might notice some resonances there.
01:00:22.260 A good example here are the universities, because part of what's happening with Gleichschaltung at the university is, yeah, they're getting rid of a bunch of people, but they're also reorganizing the university.
01:00:30.980 They're basically, right, they have this Führerprinzip in the state with Hitler as the leader, but they also demand that the universities start reorganizing according to this leadership principle, meaning that the rector, who is the president, basically equivalent in Germany, has to take all the reins of power, has to start being able to dismiss students, has to be able to dismiss faculty, has final say-so on everything, right?
01:00:53.380 And then you can put your guy in charge of that one job that has everything, right?
01:00:59.240 German universities, like most universities, have been fairly decentralized.
01:01:02.800 A lot of power had devolved to famous faculty members, to important deans and administrators.
01:01:08.900 And the Nazis undo all that to kind of make sure that they only had to replace one guy. 0.82
01:01:13.580 It was almost always a guy in order to make sure that they had full control over the university. 0.60
01:01:19.380 So centralized government, we think of it as like an autocratic principle motivated by the needs of the or the desires to power of the one central figure.
01:01:30.380 But you're also saying it is like an easier thing to manage from above, right?
01:01:34.120 Like when I want to totally change this university, if I only have to get rid of the rector.
01:01:42.040 Right.
01:01:42.600 Because all the power is concentrated in that office, that makes my job easier.
01:01:46.820 Exactly.
01:01:47.160 And, of course, this is also where, you know, if you were a right-leaning intellectual and you wanted that kind of job, you suddenly had all this power and could sort of radically reimagine what a university can be, you know, to use the management speak of today, right?
01:02:02.420 Martin Heidegger is someone who gets into office that way and gives this absolutely insane speech laying out how he's the leader of the University of Freiburg and what it means to be a follower in academia.
01:02:12.100 And, you know, it becomes kind of a great moment also for opportunists who both have an axe to grind with their colleagues and love having a little bit more power.
01:02:22.940 Yeah, it strikes me that this is creating a lot of opportunities for like grift or like grievance enactment, right?
01:02:29.900 Like, I don't like this guy. I'm going to hint that he's not on board to the person who is in charge of these firings.
01:02:35.940 Or like, oh, I have a lot of ambition and not a lot of principles, so I'm just going to suck up to the Nazis and see if I can get one of these big cushy jobs whose only requirement is like party loyalty. 0.60
01:02:47.740 Yeah. One of the big things that sort of amplifies this, on the one hand, the graft aspect of this collides with the legalistic framework of the whole thing. Because the Nazis were also starting to make choices that actually restricted what a university leader could make.
01:03:05.380 On April 7th, 1933, you get the Law for the Restoration of the Professional Civil Service. 0.69
01:03:11.940 They passed this new law about who can have what jobs on April 7th.
01:03:15.700 Exactly.
01:03:16.080 And what is the content of this law?
01:03:17.700 Well, I'll just read it. Maybe we'll take turns.
01:03:19.880 Paragraph one.
01:03:20.560 In order to restore a national professional civil service and to simplify administration,
01:03:25.040 officials may be dismissed from office in accordance with the following provisions,
01:03:29.160 even if the conditions required for this under the applicable law are not met.
01:03:34.020 So we can just fire you.
01:03:35.200 That's right.
01:03:35.440 Who have no employment protections.
01:03:36.740 Okay.
01:03:36.980 This is the big balls clause, basically.
01:03:39.120 So section three reads, officials who are not of Aryan descent shall be retired. 0.55
01:03:45.040 Jesus Christ.
01:03:45.980 Yep.
01:03:46.640 Honorary officials shall be dismissed from office. 0.99
01:03:50.320 What the fuck? 0.99
01:03:51.340 They already have this Aryan distinction and they're already making it a job requirement. 1.00
01:03:57.760 That's right. 0.97
01:03:58.160 And I mean, they're talking about this as a restoration, right?
01:04:00.660 Nothing was wrong with the German professional civil service.
01:04:02.840 They had a large professional civil service.
01:04:04.680 the idea of restoration was purification, right? It's about, it had been destroyed by the woke
01:04:10.900 mind virus. Oh, I'm sorry. No, I slipped in my notes. It had been subverted by Jewish and modern
01:04:17.220 elements. The decadent cosmopolitans and the scourge of modernism. Yeah. Exactly. 1.00
01:04:23.120 Cultural Marxism, perhaps. Yeah. Yeah. So wait, but who counts as an Aryan?
01:04:29.300 So this is what a lot of people ask. They're like, I think my grandpa was Jewish. I've never
01:04:33.640 been to a synagogue, do I count? Yeah, they make clear that if you have grandparents, I believe
01:04:39.460 you are, you count as non-Aryan, right? Meaning that people sort of have to start proving this
01:04:45.680 stuff too. So, you know, here it is, April 7th already. There's a limitation to this, which
01:04:51.640 doesn't matter that much pragmatically, but matters for some of our friends from the last
01:04:56.180 episode, for instance, Victor Klemperer. This is our professor of French, right? Who kept that
01:05:00.520 detailed diary that's so useful for historians. I'm rooting for him. I don't actually know what
01:05:05.440 happens to him. So no spoilers, but I'm guessing it's not great. Okay. We'll get there. Basically
01:05:13.340 on Hindenburg's insistence, World War I vets are for now exempt. And this will buy someone like 0.99
01:05:19.520 Klemperer a few months, but he knows it's not forever. Yeah. If they're making these like big
01:05:25.520 racial classifications about who's allowed to participate in civil society and public life
01:05:29.880 and they're like oh but not you you know the the the winking exception is never is never very
01:05:36.360 reliable we'll get to you later exactly this reminds me a little of like one drop rules
01:05:41.180 in the segregated south right like because what we have in in germany from i think like basically
01:05:47.500 the mid-19th century on is a ton of intermarriage between jewish and non-jewish germans right like
01:05:52.580 this is not a like intensely segregated population it's a very assimilated integrated population
01:05:58.480 like distinctly from other populations of jews in europe right yeah and that was also the case
01:06:03.140 in the american south both through you know sexual violence and through other forms of you know more
01:06:09.540 benign social mixing is you had a ton of people who had this ancestry who didn't necessarily
01:06:15.280 no, it wouldn't always come up, but there's this regime of heredity that really limits
01:06:23.280 your access to public life based on your ancestry that might even be in the quite distant past.
01:06:29.380 Klemperer notes in his diary, quote, for the moment, I'm still safe, but I'm safe like someone
01:06:34.260 on the gallows who has the rope around his neck. At any moment, a new law can kick away the steps
01:06:38.720 on which I'm standing, and then I hang. Get out of there, Victor. I know. Paragraph four,
01:06:45.280 of this law for the, quote-unquote,
01:06:47.260 restoration of the German civil service,
01:06:49.120 says officials who, based on their previous
01:06:52.060 political activities, do not offer a guarantee
01:06:54.020 that they will at all times fully support
01:06:56.180 the national state may be dismissed from service.
01:06:59.240 Jesus, it's a loyalty oath.
01:07:00.960 Yeah, but note that it doesn't say
01:07:02.420 national socialist state yet.
01:07:03.880 This is still an integralist rhetoric.
01:07:05.800 The problem is that the civil service
01:07:08.860 is too independent or is not sufficiently
01:07:11.220 in the service of the national state.
01:07:13.000 Of course, the Nazis are taking over the national state as we speak, but it's still, it's interesting that, like, it's not yet loyalty to the Führer. 0.51
01:07:21.220 There's still a distinction between the state and the party, which won't hold.
01:07:26.300 No, not for long, exactly.
01:07:28.520 And just to give you an idea how this plays out in practice, obviously, like, this is absolute carnage among German university professors.
01:07:38.180 I looked at the University of Göttingen, not too far from Braunschweig, which had its rectory
01:07:43.700 placed in late March. And then the law leads to the immediate dismissal of 45 professors at the
01:07:49.240 university. Among them, the physicist and mathematician Max Born, 1954 Nobel laureate,
01:07:57.040 Richard Currant, a mathematician, Nikolaus Phefsner, who's a famous art historian,
01:08:02.040 Wolfgang Stechow, another art historian. A few people sort of hang on for longer.
01:08:07.220 For instance, legal scholar Gerhard Leibholz, I'm guessing because he was a veteran. 1.00
01:08:12.780 This also hits a lot of women. 0.99
01:08:13.900 Of course, the women often aren't tenured professors. 1.00
01:08:17.480 Right. They're already more precarious in their employment. 1.00
01:08:20.300 Exactly.
01:08:20.900 They have less of a cushion.
01:08:22.220 They're lacking two cushions, right?
01:08:23.600 One is...
01:08:24.160 They're not veterans.
01:08:25.000 They're not veterans, exactly.
01:08:26.240 And they are often not a tenured professor, right?
01:08:29.260 And so Emmy Noota, another sort of math genius at Göttingen, loses her job,
01:08:33.740 but I think is not even listed as one of the professors
01:08:35.660 because she was not a professor, right?
01:08:38.380 So do we have a brain drain starting to begin?
01:08:40.880 Oh, massive.
01:08:41.820 Really?
01:08:42.180 Yeah.
01:08:42.540 And I mean, once you say that the 45
01:08:44.120 is almost certainly an undercount,
01:08:45.940 historians note that a lot of these people
01:08:48.080 took early retirement in order to avoid this fate, right?
01:08:51.660 Hoping that their status might be restored one day.
01:08:54.560 This is what happened to Current, in fact.
01:08:56.320 One of the professors I just mentioned,
01:08:57.640 he appears to have taken just like,
01:08:59.020 when they were like, we're about to fire,
01:09:00.180 he's like, you can't fire me, I'm retired.
01:09:01.760 In certain fields, there have been wonderful studies of individual fields, like more than a third of the professors as of January 1933 were no longer professors by January of the next year.
01:09:13.240 Entire fields get completely decimated.
01:09:16.200 These people are also obviously not distributed equally across fields.
01:09:20.420 Are these people who are mostly leaving because they're not Nazis or are these people who are leaving because they're Jewish?
01:09:25.700 Like what is like, there's a lot of people that can get caught in this law.
01:09:29.060 It's a big net.
01:09:29.800 Yeah, I think that this is mostly Jewish people at this point. I mean, it depends a little bit on field. Like, if you were a physicist and you're a social Democrat, you can probably get around this, right? Political scientists, legal scholars, you're kind of screwed, right? Like, you're in writing being like, this is why the constitutional order is important. And the Nazis are like, well, it doesn't sound very pro-Nazi now, does it?
01:09:51.720 When I was in college, I lived in Oberholzer Hall, which was one of several dorms named after a bunch of German-Jewish humanities scholars who had fled the Nazis and wound up at Bard College, probably not the worst place to be because of these kind of purges.
01:10:11.120 Yeah. No, I mean, like the American university will be...
01:10:14.080 The biggest beneficiary of the purge, right? Yeah.
01:10:17.340 And one should say that the German universities, to my mind, have not recovered from this to this day.
01:10:22.800 Now, the third strategy is sort of rationalization.
01:10:27.020 This is a kind of consolidation, right, where basically you try to kind of reduce the number of actors that might sort of create a pluralism.
01:10:37.760 So this is happening mostly sort of in fields where it's actually free market, where the government doesn't have so much say one way or the other.
01:10:44.580 A good example here is the film industry, right?
01:10:47.340 In January of 1933, the German film industry consists of 49 production companies.
01:10:54.160 By the late 30s, that number is 15.
01:10:57.360 Wow.
01:10:57.800 Yeah.
01:10:58.440 Many of these companies were already pretty nationalist, at least in terms of ownership, right?
01:11:03.240 UFA, the largest one of these, is owned by, drumroll, Alfred Hugenberg.
01:11:08.040 Oh, okay.
01:11:08.720 Yeah. 0.72
01:11:09.080 Our anti-Semitic right-wing creep, yeah. 0.76
01:11:10.560 If you are a friend of the Nazis, your business is going to be spared, right?
01:11:15.240 There's also a little bit of like a patronage thing going on, as well as an ideological purge. 0.65
01:11:18.980 That's right.
01:11:19.760 Now, to be clear, the law of April 7th was about civil servants.
01:11:23.080 So it said nothing about private industries.
01:11:25.380 When the Nazis approached UFA, which was owned by Alfred Hugenberg, in late March, asking them to compile a list of Jewish employees,
01:11:34.960 they found out that not only had UFA compiled such lists already, but had in fact started purging Jewish employees on March 29th.
01:11:43.460 Oh, my God.
01:11:44.140 Right away, sir.
01:11:45.060 In fact, I've already started the anti-Semitic purge.
01:11:48.160 That's right. 1.00
01:11:48.920 What a bunch of pussies. 0.99
01:11:50.240 Like, I mean, I think there's a lot of like shock in America right now about the cowardice and willingness to cooperate with authoritarianism among our own elites. 0.99
01:11:58.800 But that is highly precedented and perhaps should not be so shocking.
01:12:02.740 Exactly right.
01:12:03.620 I mean, like this is a great example of anticipatory obedience or what Ian Kershaw will later call working towards the Führer, right? 0.59
01:12:11.000 The fact that, like, the Nazis sometimes had to cajole and force people, but at other times, like, oh, well, you already did this, right?
01:12:19.060 Like, basically, people's venality, people's anti-Semitism, people's selfishness basically got them there before the Nazis even made them do anything. 0.52
01:12:27.940 Yeah, so those are the three strategies of sort of forced Gleichschaltung, forced synchronization.
01:12:33.100 And now, briefly, I wanted to talk about the third event, which is on April 1st, which is the boycott of German-Jewish businesses.
01:12:41.000 Right. So it's businesses, law firms, doctors' offices. Right. It's when, you know, everyday Jewish people who are not in a relationship where they owe fealty to the state, right, where they're not civil servants, become explicit targets of official Nazi policy.
01:13:01.260 Most historians say, like, it's kind of a bust.
01:13:04.180 Goebbels is happy with it, but, like, there's not a whole lot of buy-in. 0.53
01:13:07.840 It does appear that, basically, it shows that, like, in some way, the administrative stuff that the Nazis are doing is far more effective, far more devastating than them trying to sort of channel the anger of what they think of as the street.
01:13:22.020 Like, everyday people are not yet buying into that part of it. 0.54
01:13:25.460 Here's how Lempere experiences it in Dresden.
01:13:30.460 Quote, on Saturday, red posters on the shops recognize German Christian enterprise in between them, closed shops as amen in front of them with triangular boards. 0.83
01:13:40.140 Whoever buys from the Jew supports the foreign boycott and destroys the German economy. 0.90
01:13:45.080 This is the ostensible reason for this. 0.98
01:13:46.860 Like the Jews spread lies about us by, again, saying the things that we've done and said things we're doing. 0.97
01:13:52.300 And so, therefore, now we have to boycott them because there had been some tiny boycott movements of German wares based on the fact that the German government was literal Nazis. 0.71
01:14:03.420 And people were like, I feel like you're playing the Nazi card too fast just because we're Nazis doesn't – why would you call us Nazis just on account of us being Nazis?
01:14:12.760 My grandfather fought real Nazis and I bought this copy of Mein Kampf before we knew the truth.
01:14:18.060 Yeah. 0.80
01:14:20.500 Klempra goes on.
01:14:21.740 People poured down Prager Straße and looked at it all.
01:14:24.860 That was the boycott.
01:14:26.380 For the time being, only Saturday, then a pause until Wednesday, we're told.
01:14:29.980 Excluding banks, including lawyers and doctors.
01:14:32.620 Called off after one day.
01:14:34.100 It has been a success and Germany is quote-unquote magnanimous.
01:14:36.860 But in truth, it's a wild turnaround.
01:14:38.740 Evidently resistance at home and abroad.
01:14:40.620 And evidently from the other side, pressure from the National Socialist mob.
01:14:44.860 Right?
01:14:45.420 He's like, this didn't work.
01:14:46.820 They don't know what they're doing. At the same time, he says, like, I have a feeling that the catastrophe is coming, right? He's like, just because this didn't work, just because they haven't yet mastered this, it's going to get worse.
01:15:00.040 There was a degree of trial and error and accumulation of different strategies and different lessons. 0.87
01:15:07.880 even when it comes to, I guess I was thinking when it comes to boycotts, Nazis will be a lot 0.94
01:15:12.420 more effective later on. As Peter Fritscher points out in his book, a lot of these early 0.90
01:15:17.080 outrages of the Nazi period have this almost ritualistic quality. They're public, they're
01:15:22.300 spectacular. And yet it kind of feels like people are mostly just going through the motions. It's
01:15:27.460 not, you know, there's a kind of threadbare quality to a lot of it at this stage. And you
01:15:32.360 can really tell that in Klemper's description, he's clearly not saying this is nothing. He's
01:15:37.020 not laughing it off, but he's also like, it's not clear how much people's heart is really in this,
01:15:43.100 right? And the other thing I think that Klemper saw that historians have confirmed since is this,
01:15:48.600 that there's this pervasive sense of victimhood that the Nazis sought to instill, often at the
01:15:54.020 same time as they were relentlessly victimizing others, right? The idea was that these boycotts
01:15:58.840 were reactive since, you know, Jews have been, quote unquote, spreading lies and led to some 1.00
01:16:04.200 very tiny boycotts in other countries, right? 1.00
01:16:07.360 Right.
01:16:07.740 They're in search of this justification to hang,
01:16:10.640 like a peg to hang their grievance on, right?
01:16:12.260 A small little boycott in another country
01:16:16.280 will become pretextual justification 1.00
01:16:18.360 for this outsized victimization of Jews
01:16:21.820 and this outsized sense of grievance against Jews.
01:16:24.460 And I mean, like, this is obviously something
01:16:25.720 that we don't know of our present moment,
01:16:27.620 that people can control all the levers of power
01:16:29.560 and still go on constantly about how they're the actual victims.
01:16:32.960 So, you know, like it's been 90 years, like people have moved on. But no, in all seriousness, I do think it's really, really noticeable that like people who can not only have untrammeled power, but exercise it viciously, their ability to tell themselves that truly they are the victims here and that outrages are actually being perpetrated against them.
01:16:54.140 the capacity for that is pretty limitless and the nazis really play that like a fiddle
01:17:00.080 and in late march and early april of 1933 so what are we looking forward to next time adrian
01:17:06.820 so next time we're going to get to more gender and sexuality stuff we're going to be talking about
01:17:11.460 the women's movement and the nazi state which is an interesting story we're going to be talking
01:17:16.320 about magnus hirschfeld's institute for sexual science uh and yeah we're going to be talking
01:17:21.960 about trans people and the Nazis.
01:17:24.920 Thank you for going on
01:17:26.100 yet another long journey with me.
01:17:28.580 We're going to do this.
01:17:29.860 We're going to make it.
01:17:30.880 This is a marathon, not a sprint,
01:17:32.880 but, you know, two down, eight more to go.
01:17:35.940 Thank you, Adrian.
01:17:37.120 And thank you all for listening
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