Missing Witches - May 01, 2022


Beltane 2022 Panel and FUNDRAISER: Kinship w Margaret Robinson PhD, Granddaughter Crow, Dr. Zoe Todd and Chrystal Toop

Topics
WF Edgar Fabián Frías: I'm Hopeful For The Magic We Are All Weaving...We Are Transforming Hierarchies WF Asha Frost: You Are The Medicine

Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 34 minutes

Words per minute

158.27

Word count

15,018

Sentence count

239

Harmful content

Misogyny

5

sentences flagged

Toxicity

10

sentences flagged

Hate speech

34

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
00:00:00.180 You aren't being a proper woman, therefore you must be a witch. 1.00
00:00:06.800 You must be a witch. 1.00
00:00:10.020 Welcome, folks. 0.99
00:00:11.960 Happy Beltane!
00:00:13.980 Welcome, everyone.
00:00:16.420 Hi, so nice to see your faces.
00:00:19.820 Welcome to this live recording of the Missing Witches podcast,
00:00:24.180 our Beltane special,
00:00:25.500 our annual fundraiser episode for the Native Women's Shelter.
00:00:30.000 we are just beyond excited and thrilled um that you're here that our guests are here that you've
00:00:40.840 chosen to be with us if you're here with us in person it's kind of extra special we get to see
00:00:45.880 your face and feel that moment that energy with you it's really what I was just saying right
00:00:53.840 before I hit to let everyone enter I feel really nervous for this one it's really important to me
00:00:58.620 i'm really excited by the work that these people do practically academically they're writing their
00:01:04.220 community building um and you know i think it's uh we do a podcast called missing witches amy and i
00:01:13.980 and that comes from a place of great longing for us um i think that our community is united in the
00:01:19.900 sense of longing longing for kinship you know what does it mean the the thing that we call
00:01:27.340 our intersection of our politics and our spirituality we call witches and we know a 0.54
00:01:31.900 great deal of that witch movement has been built on theft of indigenous culture
00:01:44.060 and that feels shitty and so we try to make sure we're centering indigenous voices
00:01:52.780 learning as much as we can and uh and and acting in a spirit of reparations with our work too so
00:02:01.680 that we come together from a place of longing and community building and a desire to learn
00:02:06.960 from everything we've been missing and a hopefulness too that in sort of terrifying
00:02:13.380 environmental times this sense of longing and community building and outreach uh and sorrow
00:02:20.080 can help us have hope for the future together so not not a lot riding on these conversations for
00:02:28.600 me emotionally that's the context thank you for being here we usually begin before
00:02:36.140 we do our introductions and we get into our conversation with a piece of ritual that looks
00:02:43.080 a little bit different today and amy will tell you about what that feels like looks like this
00:02:48.660 time around yeah as Risa said we we usually open these sabbat events with a ritual and this time
00:02:55.380 we're opening with a call to ritual sacrifice this event this episode this panel is a fundraiser
00:03:02.940 for the third year running Risa and I will be contributing our Patreon profits for the month
00:03:08.520 of May to the Native Women's Shelter of Montreal last year we invited our listeners to join us
00:03:14.280 and together our coven returned almost $3,000 to our local Indigenous communities. So again,
00:03:21.080 we're asking you, our listeners, those of you here today, our Missing Witches coven mates all over
00:03:27.880 the world to make a reparation. We know that most of you are listening from outside Canada,
00:03:34.060 so wherever you are, we encourage you to find a local Native women's shelter or Indigenous NGO
00:03:40.160 to support. Some places don't have First Nations specific orgs, so we'll also accept donations to
00:03:47.320 shelters for vulnerable women and children, sex workers, or victims of violence, or Planned
00:03:53.740 Parenthood, but we would really appreciate a focus on support of Indigenous women or Indigenous
00:04:01.020 people. We've got a couple grand worth of prizes donated by our Covenant Large jewelry, art,
00:04:08.000 altar pieces books shout out to our publishing house north atlantic books
00:04:11.860 a handmade custom sweater and readings of all kinds ancestry astrology tarot akashic records
00:04:19.800 just waiting to be yours so here's what you're going to do make your donation of ten dollars
00:04:25.780 or more to the native women's shelter of montreal or your local indigenous people support organization
00:04:31.980 take a screenshot of your receipt and email it to missingwitches at gmail.com with the subject line
00:04:39.820 donation plus the amount of your donation the amount is important because for every ten dollars
00:04:46.040 you'll get one entry into the raffle for these prizes that I'm about to list so if you donate
00:04:51.220 twenty dollars you'll be entered twice for fifty you'll get five entries and so on if everyone
00:04:55.720 listening right now donates locally, together we can make an impact globally. Anyone who donates
00:05:03.460 $100 or more will be additionally entered in a separate draw to win a personal gratitude Zoom
00:05:08.880 chat for Therese and myself. Plus, every single person who makes a donation of $10 or more, that's
00:05:16.640 every single person who makes a donation of $10 or more, will automatically receive a digital
00:05:22.940 coupon book that we put together with discount codes to some of our most beloved witchy businesses
00:05:28.560 including house witch snake hair press the death witch unearthed minerals all this info and more
00:05:36.860 details plus a list of ideas for places to donate in canada will be on our website and our socials
00:05:44.680 and for those of you who are here live that link is live now so you can go to our website and check
00:05:49.200 that out but maybe wait until after this conversation is over so make your donation
00:05:57.320 and if you like tell us about who you're supporting and why last year we highlight a bunch of these
00:06:04.120 organizations in our stories and it was wonderful to be able to share who everyone else is also
00:06:09.360 supporting with our following so take your screenshot of your receipt email it to missing
00:06:15.560 witches at gmail.com with the subject line donation plus the amount of your donation lucky
00:06:20.540 donors will win amazing prizes and everyone who donates will get a digital coupon book with
00:06:25.980 discount codes from our favorite witchy businesses we'll run the fundraiser from today through the
00:06:30.800 month of may winners will be drawn at random and announced on june 1st just to give our raffle 0.93
00:06:36.560 prize donors a bit of heat we have amy owen who's going to do an astrology reading and a painting 0.96
00:06:41.920 of the chart. GDC, who's here today, is going to give us a reading plus a copy of your upcoming new
00:06:48.040 book, which we're so excited to talk about. So we'll talk about that in just a minute.
00:06:53.060 As I said, North Atlantic Books is giving us three copies of Banana Leaves. We wanted Jessica to be
00:06:58.560 here today, but she's booked. So instead, we're going to spread her book around.
00:07:04.080 um unearthed minerals is giving us a broom necklace angela aka heart wise woman is doing
00:07:11.560 a bone throw reading melissa is doing an akashic records reading jessica from dear woman is doing
00:07:17.800 a tarot reading sammy has given us a necklace set kate baloo a custom personalized poem james
00:07:23.580 from a quiet practice has hand woven an altar cloth for this fundraiser uh venus and retro
00:07:30.400 tarot reading sherry that hoodoo lady an ancestor introduction connection plus a copy of her book
00:07:37.420 and moth and magic is doing a handmade custom granny square cardigan that i want so badly
00:07:44.200 that i wish i could enter and win all of these prizes now i'm going to take a deep breath
00:07:50.020 oh please join us like i said if we all make reparations locally together we can make an
00:07:58.480 impact globally. Now I'm going to mute my microphone and drink some more water. Thank you
00:08:03.460 all for being with us here today. Thank you so much to all the people in our coven who leapt
00:08:10.220 forward to contribute their work and their labor for prizes and to folks who I know are already
00:08:14.880 making donations. Let's meet our brilliant circle today. I would love to invite each of you
00:08:24.260 to tell us about yourselves tell us about your work what are you thinking about how are you
00:08:33.000 how are you feeling today where are you and if you feel like it can you start to draw the lines
00:08:41.080 for us between your work and this idea of kinship um we have fish philosophers and people writing
00:08:49.540 about plant kins and working with plant kin and fossil kinship people rethinking and queering
00:08:55.900 these sort of colonial family structures thinking about social work and animal kinship helping us
00:09:01.860 understand a relationship to the natural world in general so if you can find your way to ease us
00:09:08.460 into those relationships and conversations as a starting point that would be a great gift um
00:09:13.400 i'll invite uh dr zoe todd to start and then if you'd like i'll invite you to daisy chain it so
00:09:20.900 it's not always us talking so you could call on the next person um good morning and thank you
00:09:27.640 it's really an honor to be here with you in the missing witches podcast and also with
00:09:32.980 the amazing panelists that um we're all joining today um so
00:09:37.800 My name is Zoe Todd. I am a Métis person. I am from Alberta in Treaty 6 Territory or
00:09:55.320 Edmonton. I currently live in unceded Sina'as and Kualaikum First Nations homelands, territories
00:10:02.680 with my family and I'm deeply grateful to be here as someone who was not invited to this territory
00:10:10.280 but I'm working very hard to be in good relation with these lands and with the nations whose lands
00:10:16.600 we're on. I'm really excited to talk about kinship because it underpins so much important work across
00:10:23.080 the country and across Indigenous contexts throughout the globe and there's so much
00:10:29.240 important work on kinship and relationality and care and reparation and i was actually tearing up
00:10:36.120 a little when you were reading out the list of all the people who have donated and just this
00:10:41.640 idea of reparation i work in the academy and often white people feel that their presence as folks
00:10:48.840 studying us is their form of reparation and so they kind of open up these spaces like you should
00:10:53.480 just be so grateful we're here we're hosting you but you have put so much thought and care into
00:10:59.000 this event and just knowing that all of these people just all over the place are coming together
00:11:05.560 with this intention to to make things right to repair deep harms just really the energy was so
00:11:13.000 palpable so i don't want to take up too much time because all the panelists are so brilliant and
00:11:17.160 amazing but i just wanted to say my gratitude um for hosting this space and and also just like
00:11:23.960 i'm a fan of everyone uh that you were invited so it's really i get to just listen to really
00:11:29.000 brilliant people talk so thank you so much and i'm really excited to be here today
00:11:33.460 do you want to tell us a little bit about your writing and you work and then daisy chain it
00:11:38.120 yeah sorry i mean i think we all just took a moment to be emotional
00:11:42.400 so that's all right emotional support water um so yeah my work i work on fish i work uh
00:11:51.440 in collaboration with with a diverse team of people both in so-called canada but also so-called
00:11:57.360 australia and uh and also with my very dear friend and colleague june dr june rubis who is um
00:12:04.000 badaya from sarawak malaysian borneo and together we are just really interested in
00:12:10.960 helping to support freshwater fish futures throughout different contexts. And we really,
00:12:18.480 we really believe that the answer to a lot of freshwater fish challenges is to center
00:12:23.840 Indigenous law in its, in its plurality, like, we have a very expansive understanding of
00:12:28.480 indigeneity by which we mean people who are connected to place, not just in North America,
00:12:35.200 sometimes Indigenous Studies focuses far too much on a very small sort of context, but we,
00:12:42.160 when we say Indigeneity, we mean people throughout Africa, throughout Asia, throughout the Pacific, 0.74
00:12:46.560 like we, we're very, very, anyways, I'm not saying this eloquently, but just to also sort of disrupt
00:12:53.040 that idea that the Indigenous Studies is a narrow, a narrow space, we really try to take a very
00:13:00.400 expansive understanding of indigeneity in that it indigenous people exist uh throughout all of the
00:13:06.160 places that european colonizes displaced and dispossessed people very um deliberately uh
00:13:12.080 through the last 600 years and um yeah we just really believe that indigenous knowledge is
00:13:17.840 indigenous laws indigenous philosophies are really important to repairing um you know social and
00:13:25.120 environmental harm that European colonial capitalist and white supremacist approaches
00:13:31.660 have done. And I'm going to hand it off to Crystal. And so yeah, thank you so much.
00:13:43.400 Thank you, Zoe. I'm totally a fangirl of Louis' work. We've kind of followed each other on social
00:13:51.680 media for a while so it's definitely uh just feels super amazing and awesome to be on a panel
00:13:58.200 uh with you and with these other people it's uh like where am i who am i what's happening
00:14:04.520 um so quay quay everyone my name is crystal toop uh also you can find my byline name crystal
00:14:12.940 wabon um i'm a member of pickwalknagon first nation i live in eastern ontario in renford
00:14:19.600 County. So I'm just a short hop and a jump out away from my community. And I kind of grew up
00:14:26.400 really displaced between Ontario, Montreal, Thunder Bay. And my whole thing is Blackbird
00:14:35.600 Medicines. That's been my heart work for quite a few years, really working to kind of do that
00:14:44.000 healing work I'm Algonquin but I'm also French and Polish and I'm just kind of like you know
00:14:51.000 what does that mean for a long time my whiteness and my proximity to my connections you know
00:14:59.980 we my family I was the the Polish one and my sister was the the native one so just within
00:15:05.700 the family there was interesting lines drawn but I came to learn over time that
00:15:12.120 you know it's it's really about your connections and you know how you're you're embracing those
00:15:20.480 connections and how you're honoring them and so trying to take steps less focused on the shade of
00:15:26.840 my skin and really focusing more on those connections and how how those really led
00:15:36.280 myself down a certain path and you know what does that healing look like from you know my
00:15:43.260 my grandparents and their parents going to residential schools um you know to the point
00:15:49.120 where uh it was in our best interest to you know kind of uh pretend that didn't happen and keep
00:15:57.920 going and put your head down and keep going so it's definitely a story that a lot of indigenous
00:16:03.480 people connect with and um it's it's a story that led me to connecting with you know Zoe's work
00:16:10.860 online uh with so many of um you know even with witch connections and kitchen witch connections
00:16:19.100 and different things where I'm looking to my culture for healing and finding a lot of
00:16:25.580 non-indigenous people in those spaces and trying to understand my own conflicts of well
00:16:32.080 i'm actually native and i'm i feel conflicted about taking up space but like they're not native
00:16:37.960 so getting through those understandings and and also um you know opening space up uh for that
00:16:45.980 european side of you know why does this feel right or why does that feel right and maybe because
00:16:51.620 you know indigenous people are uh out there globally and and that's something that the last
00:16:58.120 few years, working with Blackbird Medicines, working with other helpers in my community.
00:17:05.040 You know, that was part of my unlearning too, was like, oh yes, Indigenous, like in a global way.
00:17:10.760 And, you know, colonization wasn't super new in the world when it came to Canada. And, you know,
00:17:18.240 and meeting different people in different places and positions and different homelands. So just
00:17:24.080 learning all those stories has kind of been really, uh, nourishing to me in a lot of ways.
00:17:30.140 And, um, so I, I keep kind of doing things and people keep finding me and, and the response
00:17:38.720 is good. So I'm, I feel like I'm doing something right. Um, definitely consider myself, um,
00:17:45.380 a spiritual practitioner, a spiritual, um, caregiver. And, and that's what I'm really
00:17:50.500 passionate about uh in in this journey is um how how does our reclaiming our spirituality reclaiming
00:17:57.800 our our connections our kinships how does that heal us how does that fortify us for the days
00:18:04.220 ahead so uh chi miigwech to everyone for having me um i feel like i just said a lot of things
00:18:12.420 Well, I'm going to pass it on, and I would love to hear Margaret introduce herself a little bit.
00:18:25.140 Well, I'll and Crystal, thank you.
00:18:36.340 Hi, I'm Margaret Robinson. I'm a member of the Lenox Island First Nation.
00:18:42.140 I'm a person of non-status experience who grew up in the eastern shore of Nova Scotia in Mi'kma'ki,
00:18:50.360 so I got to live in my traditional territory, and now I work there, which is a great benefit for me.
00:18:58.320 In my work, I work at Dalhousie University.
00:19:01.460 I'm a researcher.
00:19:03.440 Most of my work is with indigenous or with sexual and gender minority people,
00:19:09.260 And I mostly look at how culture keeps people well. And so some of my interests in terms of connections and kinship and wellness come out of that, looking at how connecting with culture and how to live with culture wherever we find ourselves.
00:19:28.020 So for myself, looking, how do we embed Mi'kmaq values into our daily lives?
00:19:33.860 What does that mean if you're also a secular person versus if you're a spiritual person?
00:19:40.220 And so kind of digging into all of that is one of the things that I find really exciting about my work, giving me that opportunity to learn more about myself and other people.
00:19:51.180 um i coordinate indigenous studies so i'm also interested in sort of the discipline of indigenous
00:19:56.700 studies and where the borders of that are um and i approach this as a secular person who uh did
00:20:06.160 a phd and a master's in a catholic theological school so i have a lot of uh interest in religion
00:20:14.060 and spirituality um but uh not as a participant or as a an observer uh so uh it's it's exciting
00:20:24.340 to be here and to uh meet all of you uh in person so uh i'll say well island thank you all
00:20:32.380 uh and i guess i'll pass it on to uh granddaughter crow gdc you're up thank you thank you thank you
00:20:42.800 So awesome, you guys. This is such a wonderful, sacred space for wonderful, sacred conversations, and I am very honored to be here.
00:20:54.220 So Ya'at'e, they call me Granddaughter Crow. I am born to the Bilagana clan for the Ta'achini clan, which means that I am Navajo Nation down here in the four corners, United States.
00:21:07.900 Four Corners is Colorado, Utah, New Mexico, and Phoenix or Arizona. And so my father is full
00:21:19.440 blood Navajo. He was taken from his hokan and put into boarding school, stripped of his
00:21:29.360 languish his hair and his culture so i'm very close to that experience however my mother is
00:21:39.620 full-blood dutch and so i understand what was said before um this whole trying to reconcile with
00:21:50.260 myself you know being of both and i think it took me a long time to get there because what it has
00:21:59.360 helped me to do was become a bridge between cultures. And now we're here having conversations
00:22:08.460 about cross-cultural communications, getting to know each other with respect, with curiosity.
00:22:16.280 And this is the beauty of this time that we are living in, is that we get to have these
00:22:22.460 unspoken conversations, these things that used to be just ignore it, don't just sweep it under
00:22:28.940 the rug and now we get to come to the table and listen to each other and so although I am
00:22:35.300 of the Navajo Nation I only speak with my experience I'm not speaking on behalf of the
00:22:42.440 Navajo Nation I am a Gen X and raised in Denver Colorado and so what do I do under the name of
00:22:53.020 granddaughter crow i am an author a public speaker i offer sessions one-on-one sessions
00:23:00.640 psychic intuitive whatever you want to call it empathic whatever you want to call it i'm also
00:23:06.820 well you can check out my website www.granddaughtercrow.com that's it in a nutshell
00:23:14.800 where i would like to say what i do and how that helps with the kinship
00:23:19.800 my second book which is out there you can get it off of Amazon or I think Kindle or Barnes and
00:23:26.960 Noble or wherever you get your books it's called Wisdom of the Natural World and it's practical
00:23:33.580 and spiritual teachings from plants animals and mother earth and last year Missing Witches had
00:23:40.240 me on and we spoke about that book I think that that one was like your hundredth episode or
00:23:47.820 I think it was 100th episode. And so if anybody wants to listen to that, and or you can buy the
00:23:53.840 book. And what I really do is want to encourage, inspire people to be their authenticity. And I
00:24:05.460 like to say that I was First Nation before First Nation was cool. And now it's cool. So my lived
00:24:12.440 experience is like, oh, okay, now you want me to come to the table. And some of the questions that
00:24:18.340 I'm getting asked right now were internal questions that I had with myself. So I'm still
00:24:23.400 trying to develop my words around how do I feel about this? How do I speak about this? And that's
00:24:30.680 what this platform really means to me. And I'm so excited about being here with all of you. And
00:24:36.760 um thank you so much thank you so much to each of you for those really personal and thoughtful
00:24:47.280 introductions it's really generous to come into this space with that kind of openness for all of
00:24:54.940 us so we really appreciate that um we have questions Amy and I were laughing earlier we're
00:25:01.060 people with countless questions we're so excited and curious about your work but I do want to say
00:25:05.680 as a caveat like just ignore our questions if you have more interesting things to say
00:25:11.780 or if you want to ask each other things we're more interested in that than we are in our own
00:25:19.060 questions so we'll start with sort of directing things but if at any point you're like I want to
00:25:23.460 know what Crystal thinks about this that's my caveat about that I did want to ask and this
00:25:33.320 goes back to a question margaret shared with us um if you know we have a diverse listener
00:25:40.760 community we talk about the coven we make in the dark between our ears and how that's like a
00:25:46.540 meeting point in a podcast space for people who come from all around the world a real diversity
00:25:53.400 of backgrounds um settler descendants colonizer descendants people who grew up you know off
00:26:02.180 reservation with totally detached from their community who are trying to find a way back
00:26:07.180 descendants of enslaved people people who are in really um incredibly strict religious communities
00:26:13.800 right now who for whom this part of their spirituality is very secret um we really hear
00:26:21.040 from an incredible diversity of people um so for those people if they feel a longing towards
00:26:29.940 a practice that they can identify as probably indigenous in origin and they want to have a
00:26:35.880 relationship with the natural world for example without um you know perpetuating this kind of
00:26:42.580 violence what do you recommend is there is there a way in that feels appropriate um or not
00:26:50.820 unless anybody wants to jump on that I could perhaps pass it to Margaret since it was sort
00:26:59.000 of a version of the question you shared with us uh sure uh so this is something i've had to do
00:27:07.340 some thinking about um in the context of what's a way for people who've been separated from
00:27:13.820 our indigenous traditions and cultures and ceremonies which for most people of my generation
00:27:20.340 is everybody um because until 1951 uh it was illegal in canada to participate in a lot of
00:27:27.760 First Nations ceremonies. And so we have sometimes parents, grandparents, elders who did not learn
00:27:35.240 those ceremonies themselves or don't know those traditions and couldn't pass them on. And so for
00:27:41.940 a lot of folks, there's a search going on. And people have different access to power in doing
00:27:50.760 that search. And so it's important to figure out where you fit in that as a searcher and to
00:27:57.480 think about what, I mean, it's easy to be aware of what my needs are going into a space, but it's
00:28:04.400 harder to imagine what some of the dangers I might be posing to people in that space are if I come in
00:28:10.180 with a lot of questions and I'm not thinking in terms of reciprocity or what kind of burden I
00:28:18.700 might be putting on people who already have pretty strapped access to resources. And so I've done a
00:28:25.880 lot of thinking about it. I'm also a vegan. So I tend to think in parallels. And one of the
00:28:31.160 parallels that comes to mind here is when I get a craving for something and I think, oh, you know,
00:28:35.920 I'm really missing. And so I'm thinking of when I used to eat meat and thinking, oh, gosh, I could
00:28:41.040 really go for that. And then I do a little analysis where I'm asking myself, what is it I'm really
00:28:45.700 craving? What is it that's missing? Is it salt? Is it fat? What is the thing that I'm seeking there?
00:28:51.440 And so I think for people who aren't Indigenous, who find themselves connecting to some Indigenous piece of ceremony or culture tradition, to stop and ask yourself, what is it about that that is calling to me?
00:29:05.160 Because it might be easy to think that that's the thing that is calling to you, when really what's calling to you is that absence inside of yourself and your own history that is maybe waiting for you to discover it.
00:29:17.300 the the what did your ancestors do when that piece of them was missing what was the thing
00:29:22.780 that made them feel whole and that's really where I think people need to find their answers
00:29:26.580 and so like that journey itself is worth doing it's not just about finding the thing that fits
00:29:32.260 in that spot um it's about going there and looking for it and and the person you become by doing that
00:29:37.640 and so I I think that's that's what I would recommend and maybe other folks have a different
00:29:42.880 approach to that I'd like to just do a bit of a hot pursuit because I I just can't help but think
00:29:51.860 like I I've I come across this often um in community and in death work and particularly
00:29:59.480 in death work and um you know I had a on my dad's side I have a cousin and her mom is um you know
00:30:08.880 very Irish Scottish background. And, you know, her, her dad is my dad's brother, the European
00:30:15.860 side of the mix. And, you know, she was really excited to, you know, invite me along to these
00:30:23.500 different drum circles she had started participating in and different, you know,
00:30:27.960 they were indigenous spaces meant for indigenous people. And she was really excited. And, you know,
00:30:35.900 you could and she really talked about how her spirit connected in those spaces and you know
00:30:42.360 I love my cousin very much and you know I went along and I checked it out and and it was a great
00:30:48.600 space but you know it was also I could see things that she couldn't like nobody else except for the
00:30:55.340 facilitators were indigenous and everybody in the circle had drums and different you know like
00:31:02.220 moccasins and things like that and it was in the middle of the day during the week and i just
00:31:08.080 you know i thought this was kind of strange because the people you know where are all the
00:31:13.180 native people in this drum circle and um so i talked with her about that after that experience
00:31:19.200 um you know just how like lack of access and you know a lot of people don't have these spiritual
00:31:26.120 items unless they're part of a you know going to a something that's paid for by like a non-profit
00:31:33.220 to bring in a drum maker and all these other things so there was you know like the access
00:31:38.160 to resources like you mentioned but what I really asked her was you know look at your own history
00:31:44.440 your own genealogy there's and I had so much success explaining Anishinaabeg people to you
00:31:52.500 know a boardroom of bros and suits um you know like what does that mean what's anishinaabe and
00:31:59.320 said well think of it as like you know being like irish or celtic or something like that like there
00:32:05.380 were tribes there was there were hand drums there were you know we have this really base historical
00:32:11.420 level as people where we felt safe around campfires and we we knew that we would survive
00:32:16.980 and have sustenance so with that connection and that kinship so that's what I tell people go back
00:32:24.420 to your own family tree you know and find where these connections are parallel for you and you
00:32:32.820 know it's such a great word parallel because it's there and it's okay to come into a space saying
00:32:37.800 this is who I am and this is what I carry and to find those those bits of what that resonate with
00:32:45.280 you in other ways you know I've heard several elders say like they don't turn anybody away
00:32:51.900 really if you're coming to the circle to join and it's with good intention and good heart you're
00:32:56.780 going to be welcome but it's also to you know know your manners and you know make sure that
00:33:06.620 you're not taking up space that maybe you shouldn't be and to also just take time to ask
00:33:12.240 of questions. That's, that's a big piece. So yeah, just came to mind.
00:33:21.280 Awesome. So this is GDC. I love, this is the type of questions that we get to
00:33:27.240 talk about in this circle and in society at this point. What I would like to say is that
00:33:35.460 when when you look at first nation people more so like within you know uh native american and
00:33:45.000 canada and indigenous you need to go back and understand that a lot of these cultures
00:33:54.220 were they the government or whomever was trying to erase them which is a little bit different than
00:34:03.140 looking at other other situations you know what they literally were trying to I mean the long walk
00:34:12.160 and the you know the trail of tears long walk of the Navajo the trail of tears it goes on and on 0.98
00:34:18.940 and on and on and on and on and so when you approach that culture understand that that is a
00:34:25.540 very DNA memory that may run in the bloodline of that individual. And then you appreciate that
00:34:34.920 and you honor and you respect and come with curiosity to learn. Appreciation, cultural
00:34:44.500 appreciation is something very different than cultural appropriation. The appropriation is when
00:34:51.980 an individual or a group of individuals goes into a culture and claims and annexes and takes away
00:35:00.320 and represents that as though it was never that cultures in the first place. And that's the harm.
00:35:07.940 You know, it's like going into somebody's kitchen and cooking and making food. And they're just kind
00:35:14.440 of like sitting on the couch going, what the hell, you know, what are you doing? And so the best way
00:35:19.640 that I like to explain this and this is an early on conversation for me and I'm still developing
00:35:26.100 you know because I do have that pain and I understand the the anger that some people feel
00:35:31.620 but at the other hand what I'm like if we just approach each other with respect understanding
00:35:40.200 wanting to learn and then curiosity and let people know this is that tradition and they invited me to
00:35:50.100 be a part of it that is totally cool you know that is totally cool and I love that parallel
00:35:57.480 because I think that with just being First Nation Native American I look at it and I'm and I like
00:36:08.060 the idea of what is it that you are seeking because if you go far back enough in anybody's
00:36:15.260 culture on the face of this earth we all sat in circle we all shared as a tribe we all had the
00:36:22.780 fire we all did and so maybe you're looking for tribe which let's create tribe then let's create
00:36:30.300 these types of things and it's a little bit more difficult to being like half and half so to speak
00:36:38.040 like because I have that's why I'm a bridge I'm like well you know let's go ahead part of me has
00:36:46.140 to approach part of me to say am I appropriating I have to have those conversations inside of myself
00:36:53.300 yes I have been called a half-breed yes I get it you know but at the end of the day we're starting
00:37:00.360 to move into more societal things where there are a lot of mixed cultures coming together and I would
00:37:07.000 also say that this is only this is beyond just like race this is also talking about how do you
00:37:15.880 approach um the lgbtq plus community how do you approach somebody who is different than you well
00:37:24.080 you do it out of respect and you understand where they're coming from and then they get
00:37:28.060 approach you and we get to have these wonderful conversations
00:37:31.840 this is such a great question i just want to thank dr robinson for um you know sending it in
00:37:41.440 to help us start off the conversation and this is a question that my my dear friend and collaborator
00:37:47.280 dr amr kandisa and i work on amr is a white settler sound artist and geographer in australia
00:37:54.480 and um we've been working for the last few years thinking about you know how do you respectfully
00:38:00.560 engage in a place that um you might not be from and obviously they're coming at it from a white
00:38:06.720 settler perspective i'm coming at it as a metis person who's been living in lots of different
00:38:10.720 indigenous people's homelands outside of my homeland and how you know how to work in ottawa
00:38:15.600 in crystal's homelands unceded and unsurrendered homelands in ottawa um algonquin homelands and
00:38:21.920 i've worked in uh the northwest territories with the new vialuit knowledge keepers on
00:38:26.240 how they apply their laws to protect fish and water and like as an indigenous person you know
00:38:33.780 when when an elder says you know I can share this with you but this other part I can't tell you it's
00:38:39.380 not for you that's really natural to me right like I'm like yeah of course I totally understand that
00:38:45.500 like there's things you can't tell me and I'm not going to press you on it because I respect your
00:38:49.320 boundaries um and I think so what Amr is trying to do in their work is to sort of normalize that
00:38:56.920 kind of approach for white people and sort of say like there are things that just aren't for you and
00:39:02.840 it's okay that they're not for you for white people and um kind of so everything that everyone
00:39:08.220 already already said I think really resonates with the work that we've been trying to do as well which
00:39:12.880 is uh Amr approaches it through listening and what they call attunement and so listening really
00:39:18.880 listening to where you are and and sort of like the one lesson they want to impart to settlers
00:39:23.340 like white people who are descendants of those who actively colonized homelands through genocide
00:39:29.000 um you know sort of that lesson of like knowing in your body when you have permission to do
00:39:36.160 something and when you don't and even learning to listen to a place like if the place is telling
00:39:40.160 you like I don't want you here maybe go to another part of the forest or and those kind of like just
00:39:45.860 really encouraging because I think with at least how colonization unfolded in Canada which is the
00:39:53.080 one place I can speak to with you know sort of knowledge I spent time living in the UK and what 0.78
00:39:59.420 really struck me about white British culture is that there's like this unfeelingness that runs 0.88
00:40:04.820 through a lot of like British or at least English society and they've done a great deal of harm both 0.89
00:40:10.400 within their sort of islands and then expanded that outward and and so you know they sent the
00:40:18.100 wealthy British people historically sent their children away to boarding schools and then they
00:40:22.860 recreated that uh everywhere that they went and with like far more sinister intent um when they
00:40:29.040 were using it as a genocidal tool but that unfeelingness like I felt it in my body when I
00:40:33.760 was studying in the UK and I just it was really upsetting to sort of realize like that how much
00:40:39.320 they had shut down to kind of get through and maybe just avoid that reckoning with what's been
00:40:45.660 done in their name. And so I hope this is making sense, but that's a separate conversation than
00:40:52.740 the conversation that we try to have about listening and attunement with people from
00:40:57.000 communities that have been violently displaced and dispossessed in other parts of the world
00:41:00.780 by white colonizers. And so in that case, we're trying to open up space to sort of talk about
00:41:08.360 like how do we make these Rebecca Louise Carter is this really brilliant anthropologist and she
00:41:14.980 she works with women who've lost family in New Orleans and she has this concept of like Black
00:41:21.760 women who've lost family in New Orleans and she has those concepts that she calls restorative
00:41:26.300 kinship and I really love that concept I don't want to appropriate it from the context that
00:41:31.920 she's writing in with like the community members she's co-thought that with but I like the kind
00:41:37.040 of idea of like aspects of sort of honoring that concept of restorative kinship like how do we
00:41:42.880 build relations with place and with with humans and more than humans that really takes into account
00:41:48.760 our obligations to one another and is thoughtful and also reckons with like the histories of white
00:41:54.880 supremacy acknowledges that there are many many communities that have been harmed and like what
00:42:00.840 kind of futures do we want to build together and so like as everyone said like curiosity care
00:42:06.380 listening you know um listening to your body what like what do you like as margaret said like what
00:42:12.240 what are you missing and like what is this experience giving you and is there a way you
00:42:16.660 can do that um with integrity that and i guess it's breaking down that idea of ownership that
00:42:22.720 whiteness has um there's this really brilliant africana philosopher named lewis gordon i really
00:42:28.140 like his work because he's very thoughtful and he talks about like whiteness as a form of narcissism
00:42:33.960 and he has a new book coming out and there's just I just read quickly like a little bit of it and he
00:42:38.760 describes whiteness as and paraphrasing him so I don't want to um misrepresent as far as he sort
00:42:44.440 of talks about whiteness as like white whiteness is like the whiteness is like who comes to the
00:42:49.700 party and sort of says like aren't you glad I'm here and and like being able to kind of you know
00:42:55.880 just just unpack that and sort of say like well no we're not actually glad you're here you're not
00:43:00.880 honoring us by taking this aspect of our culture in fact you're doing it in a way that doesn't
00:43:05.180 respect boundaries and I guess it's really coming back to those like core emotions of like uh like
00:43:11.140 are you feeling fear are you feeling you know and like being able to kind of like actually unpack
00:43:15.300 that um I think that so many people put so much work into creating the space for us to be able
00:43:20.900 to have those intimate and vulnerable conversations about who we are and who we're obligated to
00:43:25.440 and so I just feel really excited because I think that we're in a time where I think it's more
00:43:32.800 possible like like like people who've done that work to lay the groundwork have made it more
00:43:37.460 possible for us to sort of say like no I don't really believe what you're saying like you you
00:43:43.080 think you're doing this in an honorable way but it's not and it's you're not a bad person but you
00:43:48.640 need to come into better relations and like being able to do that is really really important but it
00:43:54.460 takes a lot of time and work and um yeah so exactly what all the people on the panel have
00:44:00.600 already said like it's just it's a process uh and doing that with care just like how crystal
00:44:05.380 described bringing your cousin in and unpacking that experience like that's just that's the total
00:44:10.560 that yeah that's that's that's how to do it like just have these conversations um and and yeah
00:44:17.100 anyways I'm gonna stop there but just everyone's just so brilliant I want to bring one other
00:44:24.920 brilliant voice to the conversation who's not here right now but I recently spoke to an Ojibwe
00:44:29.880 medicine person author Asha Frost and the vocabulary that she uses for the earth
00:44:37.620 is the same that she uses for culture she uses the term extraction so I think
00:44:46.800 we can work with the earth where it's a mutual aid or we can go in and we can you know pillage 0.83
00:44:54.240 the land and I think that that's exactly the same thing that happens with other cultures you know 0.68
00:45:00.620 in globally indigenous cultures so in the spirit of reciprocity let's have a reminder that this
00:45:07.240 episode is a fundraiser let's make some reparations let's do some reciprocity and
00:45:13.220 be mindful of our extraction techniques and thank you to the people who have already during the
00:45:24.080 first 45 minutes of this live episode sent in your donation receipts i see them coming in
00:45:29.120 our group email and it's really emotional and rad for real yeah thank you thank you now let's hear
00:45:38.580 bit about that fundraiser so take your screenshot of your receipt email it to missingwitches at
00:45:44.500 gmail.com with the subject line donation plus the amount of your donation lucky donors will win
00:45:49.840 amazing prizes and everyone who donates will get a digital coupon book with discount codes from our
00:45:55.520 favorite witchy businesses we'll run the fundraiser from today through the month of may winners will
00:46:00.800 be drawn at random and announced on june 1st i want i want to pick up this idea zoe introduced
00:46:12.360 um and we've spoken with um edgar fabian frius who's a indigenous thinker gender expansive
00:46:23.200 spirit that we've been lucky to have on the podcast before and we'll share a conversation
00:46:29.420 with him again next week, I believe. But they talk about Indigenous futures. So what is the
00:46:39.300 future you want to see? What does it look like? Can you help us picture it? And can we help call
00:46:44.820 it forth together? Are there pieces of it that connect to this idea of kinship with the more
00:46:51.040 than human world? Are there pieces of it that we can find through this attunement, through listening
00:46:57.220 in our bodies to where we're comfortable, where we feel joy, where we feel like we could be in
00:47:02.680 better reciprocity? Would you think out loud about that with us?
00:47:10.440 I suppose I can kick that one off. Great question. And it can go in so many different ways. But I
00:47:18.740 think that especially coming off of the dialogue that we just had about, you know, appropriation
00:47:26.600 and extraction and recognition and curiosity. I think that I would like to say that give everybody
00:47:36.140 an exercise so that you can work with the natural world, wherever you are on the globe.
00:47:44.020 And that would be very simple. I have quite a few different exercises, but I'll just choose a simple
00:47:50.760 one. So breathe, go out into the natural world. It could be your backyard, a park, go to the beach,
00:48:00.040 you know, the mountains, wherever you want, feel the weather, touch a tree and know that that tree
00:48:11.140 knows that you are touching it. There is an intellect among all of the natural world. It's
00:48:19.080 called animism everything has a soul everything has a consciousness go out there and realize that
00:48:25.620 the bird that you just saw probably saw you first kind of sit there instead of feeling separate
00:48:34.900 like you're watching a movie be the participant in that experience know that that squirrel saw you
00:48:43.440 and yes he thinks you have a peanut and yes he's going to come up and check you out and then he's
00:48:48.960 going to run away, you know, know that you are being viewed as much as you are viewing. You are
00:48:57.240 being observed as much as you are observing. And I think that that is a beautiful way to help each
00:49:03.780 of our bodies, human existence bodies, whether you are red body, white body, black body, whatever
00:49:11.940 yellow body whatever you are you can go out there and know that the natural world you're a part of
00:49:19.380 it you are a part of it so that's what I would say I would say let's start experiencing it we
00:49:27.260 talk so intelligently about our confusion but let's do something go outside oh and one more
00:49:34.220 go to that same place in the morning and observe maybe even write down what you're observing how
00:49:42.500 it's observing you do the same thing at noon it's going to be a little different right do the same
00:49:49.920 thing at night or in the evening it's going to be a little different and start connecting yourself
00:49:55.000 with the realities of what's going on because reading a book is wonderful but taking action
00:50:03.340 and feeling it, like Zoe was saying, feeling it within your body, that's where the phenomenon
00:50:08.920 starts taking place, the phenomenon and the experience, and not thinking so much about
00:50:15.380 is this experience right or wrong, just touch the tree, you know, and feel it, and know
00:50:22.980 that it knows that you are touching it, and it is touching you back.
00:50:28.420 I want to keep passing this question along but I also just want to pause to highlight
00:50:37.540 we talk so intelligently about our confusion. I felt that one.
00:50:43.540 Does anyone else want to pick up this idea of a possible future and how we get there
00:50:52.840 together. I'll say some stuff. So I guess when I think about the future, I think about
00:51:01.200 dismantling. So a lot of the work that I do, people ask about, oh, you know, how do we,
00:51:07.520 how do we indigenize the academy? And I keep telling them, we don't do that yet. We,
00:51:13.360 we have to decolonize before we indigenize. It's like shampoo, then conditioner.
00:51:19.200 You have to wash out all the bad stuff and see what you've got left and then start building up again. And so I think about that sort of on the social level as well. You know, I think we need to dismantle toxic masculinity, acknowledge that toxic masculinity also damages the men that it resides within.
00:51:43.340 And similarly, I think Zoe's point about trauma, we can look at what would a trauma-informed approach to dismantling social inequity look like by acknowledging that the people who are doing the colonizing are also heavily traumatized people.
00:52:00.700 I'm not a historian, but I do notice when I look at where some of the people who were active in colonizing in what's currently Canada came from, their history had recently included traumatic colonial experiences of their own that they then replicate in new spaces.
00:52:19.100 And so I think it's interesting when you start looking at some of those histories to ask what was the way that trauma maybe influenced their actions and their behaviors, to see what would have been different if they hadn't had that experience of children, of being separated from their parents at an early age and raised in an institution, for instance.
00:52:43.300 or if they hadn't had the experience of being forced to speak a standardized form of their
00:52:48.500 language instead of the language that was distinct to their region and so on. There are
00:52:54.180 lots of experiences that were traumatic for groups that later became colonizers. And so
00:53:02.440 I think to realize that this isn't, colonization isn't just the work of evil people doing evil
00:53:09.580 things it's the work of damaged people replicating the damage that they experienced in new ways in
00:53:15.300 ways that maybe reassured them that they were never going to be powerless again and so we have
00:53:20.680 to think about how do we involve people whose ancestors did those things maybe very recently
00:53:26.780 you know we sometimes talk about colonization as if it happened long ago but people of my generation
00:53:33.620 went to residential school and many of them you know residential schools continued late until the
00:53:38.820 90s, even in Canada. So those experiences of genocide are still very current for a lot of
00:53:46.380 folks. And so how do you engage with people who don't know that history, but who are being shaped
00:53:54.220 by it? And I think our cultures have been historically welcoming and encouraging of
00:54:00.900 people to get to know us. But there's also a burden with that. You know, people have a lot
00:54:07.100 of questions when they discover that big chunks of their history are missing. And just because
00:54:12.820 someone has questions and they want to learn doesn't obligate the people they're asking to
00:54:17.620 teach them. I know sometimes the burden of teaching and educating sometimes falls on people who are
00:54:24.220 already heavily burdened and whose resources are already strapped. And so, you know, it's not up to
00:54:30.660 people of color to educate us about racism. It's not up to indigenous people to educate everyone 0.99
00:54:35.520 about colonialism although we often do and it means that that energy can't go to other things
00:54:40.560 and so i think there can be lessons to be learned from the spiritual traditions that we have
00:54:47.560 inherited so i've for instance had difficulty knowing when to stop working and a indigenous
00:54:54.680 friend was talking about protocols around medicine picking and how you don't pick all the medicine
00:55:00.000 And so I started thinking about this in relation to my own energy levels, like stop picking all your medicine. You need to leave some to regenerate and to grow. And so I think there are a lot of parallels that we can draw on from the wisdom traditions that we have about how to do stuff in a good way.
00:55:19.240 It doesn't mean we're never going to make mistakes, but I think it gives us a good hint as to how we can start undoing some of the mistakes that people have already made in the past.
00:55:30.000 yeah go for it you guys can just unmute okay i'm gonna jump in if that's okay of course
00:55:38.460 yeah no i just i love i love that embodied practice that you just shared um granddaughter
00:55:44.420 crow and just like that uh invite invitation uh to people to really pay attention to where they are
00:55:50.780 and um yeah and i think that yeah and then everything margaret just said like
00:55:57.200 just really resonating with me around recognizing because I so I don't know that I would say I'm a
00:56:06.560 witch I wouldn't say that I have like a practice that I follow that is necessarily in the traditions
00:56:11.820 that that probably some of your listeners follow but I have been thinking of colonialism as a curse
00:56:17.560 and that came out of living in Ottawa and Scotland and really thinking about forms of curses that
00:56:23.520 have been enacted and I was trying to understand what I meant by curse and so I put it in words
00:56:29.020 I said I feel like it's the intentional bending of light time and space to obscure things and that
00:56:35.100 some of our work is to just dismantle like what I was saying dismantle that like like whatever
00:56:40.960 power source or whatever is being used to obscure and bend light and time and space and and distort
00:56:46.380 them and and restore them to more um integral and ethical and rooted sort of you know ways of
00:56:54.960 existing and I don't know if that makes sense maybe it resonates with some folks maybe it doesn't
00:56:59.460 but I was trying to think of like in Ottawa the land is so powerful and so beautiful and you get
00:57:04.240 these like just you get this feeling of how amazing and I'm not Algonquin so I don't want
00:57:08.800 to appropriate Algonquin practice but like just that feeling of like this is very powerful land
00:57:12.760 And I think that's why, you know, I can see how, you know, settlers kind of wound up here
00:57:18.380 and felt this draw to this place to kind of possess it and make it a seat of power.
00:57:24.420 And I really felt like part of my job of being there wasn't so much being an academic, like
00:57:29.960 that was almost like my cover.
00:57:31.140 It was more that I had this responsibility to understand the curses and then like to
00:57:36.320 spend time with them and then try to figure out how to unravel them with my amazing friends
00:57:40.520 and colleagues.
00:57:41.180 and like where can I best you know put my energy and I really love that idea Margaret of like
00:57:47.500 like we don't pick all the medicines why would like I am a workaholic like I really struggle
00:57:52.580 with that boundary with work because I feel like I need to like there's so much to do we have to
00:57:56.820 dismantle so much and I just need to do it all in this lifetime and so that's really a good
00:58:01.740 reminder this morning too I'm it's morning over here sorry anyways I think that the future I
00:58:08.280 vision is is one where we've been able to dismantle a lot of these curses like you said
00:58:13.420 margaret like this dismantling them and diffusing them and restoring those distorted narratives and
00:58:20.540 i really think of like the enlightenment and all like all the knowledge that came out of
00:58:24.360 colonization and white supremacy like starting in 1441 with like the the the start of the
00:58:31.840 enslavement of African peoples by the Portuguese and then the Spanish and other European colonizers
00:58:39.620 or Tiffany King calls them conquistadors you know just sort of like the violence of it you know
00:58:45.160 she says settler isn't powerful enough to describe that violence so she calls it conquistador
00:58:50.140 humanism like it's just riddled with so many curses and they and they like they actively
00:58:56.800 took knowledge from people all over the globe and then just kind of distorted it to say like
00:59:01.460 no no we discovered basement like you didn't discover it like you had you had you know what
00:59:07.020 they would have called native informants you know which is not a term that is respectful but is you
00:59:12.040 know how they would have understood it uh who were showing them like where medicine plants were
00:59:16.620 where to find water where to you know and I guess so the future I envision I hope is that we've been
00:59:22.860 able to like break a lot of those curses and just sort of say here's how it really happened here's
00:59:28.540 how here's how we can be in you know um we can be in relation to one another with integrity and
00:59:36.560 um so again like Lewis Gordon talks about like ego and narcissism being a really big part of
00:59:41.920 white supremacy and colonialism and I think that idea of damage that you brought up Margaret is
00:59:46.880 really relevant to that as well that like uh I guess it's that idea of like there's healing to
00:59:54.740 be done in many different contexts but the people who also reenacted their harm and and committed
01:00:02.720 genocide they have to do that healing but it can't come at the expense of the people they hurt
01:00:06.920 I guess and so like finding that way through it um is something I'm trying to understand like how
01:00:11.600 do we so I sort of say like I think there's an impulse of white academics who kind of come into
01:00:16.880 indigenous spaces and they'll be like oh I love that we're having a circle I can share everything
01:00:20.180 want to share all the guilt I feel and what I want to say is I know that you're a tenured academic
01:00:24.680 and you have very very good therapy coverage go take that to your therapist like that you know
01:00:31.420 you know marginalized folks like those kind of sharing circles can be um like healing for folks 0.93
01:00:38.680 who don't have access to therapy but you have access to therapy and it's so inappropriate for
01:00:43.660 you to come here with your white guilt you know and I have a white mom and an indigenous dad I try
01:00:47.960 really hard to not be that person that's sort of like taking up space in indigenous context as an
01:00:53.420 indigenous person it's like I am a tenured professor I have access to therapy I take that
01:00:57.280 stuff to therapy I try to um and for me what I've been really trying to work on is um and I you know
01:01:04.100 just to to really be able to um support that kind of uh work in in various spaces to sort of say
01:01:13.480 like we're here to undo the curses together some of us have more resources to do that than others
01:01:20.040 how do we redirect those resources so that more people have access to them so that's kind of the
01:01:25.380 future i envision yeah i can see amy and i both do a full body nod and go to write down we're here
01:01:32.480 to undo the curses together i totally love that uh let's apply curse language to colonialism i like
01:01:42.280 it it's very very fitting um yeah i'm i just my you know there's been so much awesome this said 0.99
01:01:51.200 you know uh but i i really i really when i think about that uh futurism that those indigenous
01:01:58.320 futurisms it is you know moving the the harmed the traumatized you know forward in a good way 0.77
01:02:07.960 and it is um you know dismantling and it's you know it's all of that and um
01:02:16.540 and there I kind of wanted to go last just because I have
01:02:20.580 kind of a jump off question for Margaret after um you've been warned
01:02:25.400 but uh it's I really just see you know all the resources and all these generations that have 1.00
01:02:35.780 gone into dismantling Indigenous wellness, dismantling our families, dismantling our 0.76
01:02:42.320 communities. I want the same, I want to see the same investment for rebuilding and restoring and 0.99
01:02:49.700 reclaiming. I feel in a lot of ways that the time is right to, you know, in Canada, we have
01:02:59.520 testing for our kids and are they on the right level and they get like in certain grades they're
01:03:07.200 tested to make sure they're on par with you know the world and you know there's a lot of teaching
01:03:14.100 for tests and a lot of you know ideas that we give our kids and really we just hope that they
01:03:21.920 they're happy and they're well and they're safe and cared for but I think it's a really good time
01:03:26.180 to move away from all of that with this you know pandemic and it's a really important time where we
01:03:32.180 can really um appreciate that our survival skills our well-being our mental you know our holistic
01:03:40.820 wellness it's the time to center that and you know we have uh you know as humanity we have
01:03:49.520 what we need to do that work and I really think about that future of you know just it's got to
01:03:57.820 be restorative um so for myself so much of this you know I kind of live to I aim for that futurism
01:04:07.260 uh you know I took my kids out of school I homeschooled them all kinds of good stuff and
01:04:12.000 one's an adult now and one's on her way but uh you know they're they're well and they're stable
01:04:18.740 and they're safe and they have their needs met and that's really the point right but when I think
01:04:26.540 about that future piece so much of it is centering that the connections the connections to plant life
01:04:37.620 the connections you know just like GDC said you know about like that embodiment work of taking
01:04:43.620 time to really understand your place on this planet because it's you know we're not the apex
01:04:48.780 predator we're you know dependent on every every other you know form of living being so let's let's
01:04:56.680 go back to that place that's what i would like to see is is um understanding the spirituality that
01:05:02.580 that animism that exists in everything and um and for myself for so many years i looked
01:05:09.580 to try and study my um you know indigenous spirituality and all i could find were okay
01:05:16.840 but you have to study you know catholicism or or you know uh judaism and you know you can but you
01:05:24.380 got to take some of the big three or something you know you got to take some of this pie if you
01:05:29.160 want to have time for that so um so i'm just curious a bit uh margaret how how it's been for
01:05:35.520 to to have that curiosity as the non-participant that you know thirst for learning and you know
01:05:42.180 I feel like there's there's definitely going to be a space where you have this you know that
01:05:46.220 indigenous spirituality that inherent way of knowing about certain things and certain connections
01:05:52.300 that we have and the spirit and I'm just yeah I'm so curious of how it's been going studying
01:05:58.440 religion because there's always this place where you get to when when I've been looking where 0.96
01:06:04.020 indigenous spirituality they say no that's religion and they want to stuff you into a box
01:06:08.800 and say okay now you're you're talking about religious practice and you know it's just it's
01:06:16.480 culture it's a way of living it's a way of looking so it doesn't really fit in a box so yeah I'm just
01:06:22.680 curious how you know how that fits with you when you're when you've done so much kind of that
01:06:27.940 academic work and then you talk to people they're like do you really want to learn it in school do
01:06:32.700 want to learn in community and I'm like can I have both like so yeah kind of a wishy-washy question
01:06:41.540 but if anything comes to mind yeah um like I had I went to uh my undergrad university
01:06:51.400 wanting to be a writer so I took English uh but I had a bunch of other credits to fill so I started
01:06:57.500 taking some other courses. And I just had a really great run of indigenous studies,
01:07:03.880 religious studies teachers. And it got me interested primarily in why were some particularly
01:07:09.800 Christian people so homophobic? And so I was kind of interested in it, maybe I would say now from
01:07:16.420 like a sociological angle. And so, you know, I was reading the authoritarian personality and
01:07:21.340 delving into Horkheimer and Adorno and trying to find out like what makes some people want to do
01:07:27.220 what other people tell them, and trying to sort of figure out how does it function. And I think
01:07:32.920 maybe in the back of my mind, I had this idea of like, well, if I can understand how it works,
01:07:36.700 I could fix it and make homophobia never happen. You know, a nice, small, achievable goal like that.
01:07:44.900 But I had an advisor, Maggie Abdul-Masih at St. Mary's. She just retired this year. And she said,
01:07:52.380 well, when you're looking to go to grad school, if you take religious studies, you'll understand
01:07:56.140 how other people, secular people, view religious people. But if you take theology, you'll understand
01:08:01.360 how religious people view themselves. And so I did that. I took theology. And it was a great
01:08:06.960 experience because it was exactly what she said. It was understanding how people see themselves,
01:08:12.700 how they talk to each other, how they understand their own identity developing. And they've done
01:08:17.120 a lot of work in it. They've been doing this a long time in that field, understanding how to
01:08:23.420 make new christians um and my focus was on catholicism specifically um so looking at how
01:08:31.120 does that um how does it function uh how do people adopt homophobic attitudes within it
01:08:36.820 and what i noticed was it seemed to be about othering um that part of having the uh walls
01:08:43.120 of your identity be firm was about defining who was outside those walls and uh so for instance
01:08:50.160 I happened to notice that as Catholicism got less anti-Judaic, it got more homophobic.
01:08:56.760 It was almost as if the other doesn't matter, like the who the other is, it could be anyone
01:09:02.820 they slot in there. And so I started noticing similar patterns in other groups that the
01:09:07.980 insider-outsider line was really key for a lot of cultures and their identity was really rooted in
01:09:14.320 that. And I think as I came to understand my own Mi'kmaq culture more, I saw something different.
01:09:20.840 I saw that it wasn't about the line between insider and outsider. It was more about your 0.88
01:09:26.320 place in a network, in a system, in the connections. And so I see it more as a difference of emphasis
01:09:33.320 that I know you can categorize the world. I've seen places that do it and people who work on that.
01:09:40.280 um but not everything and maybe nothing fully fits into the categories that it's in um there's
01:09:47.900 always pieces of the story that have to get left out to make those categories work i see it with
01:09:53.100 identity i see it with sexuality and so seeing the way that we're networked and the way that
01:09:59.020 we're connected uh that's been really helpful for me because it helped me see the world through a
01:10:05.460 different perspective um so yeah that's coming to it like approaching it from a position of wanting
01:10:13.280 to support wellness to support health um i think it's like uh granddaughter crow is saying that
01:10:18.680 when people are separated from their connection to nature um when they've only seen the box that
01:10:25.660 they're in and they don't know what's beyond that um there's a big piece there that's missing
01:10:31.080 that relationship it's not just a piece of identity that's gone it's a it's all those
01:10:36.580 connections to the other beings in the world um and then i went to a vegan conference and
01:10:41.500 saw a presentation about our own internal uh biosystem of small animals and bacteria
01:10:49.780 and realized oh we're also an ecosystem so like there's really no end to it like you know even
01:10:55.240 the boundaries of our own body are not fully ourselves uh so it's even as a secular person
01:11:01.940 seeing this and saying i can see why people use religious language for it because there's
01:11:06.080 something about it that is overwhelming and awesome
01:11:08.500 so much yes to all of what margaret just said we definitely have people in our coven our community
01:11:18.660 who explained to us that they began to identify with they them pronouns with exactly that same
01:11:24.600 moment of realization that they are multiple that that boundary wasn't really real you know
01:11:30.140 and that impacted not just their identity but their whole everything about who they are and
01:11:35.660 how they interact um I did say I would open it up to questions uh which is hard because I have
01:11:41.800 7,000 more of my own but also I will threaten and say um we will reach out to each of the members
01:11:49.200 on this panel and uh humbly request more of your time we love to do like a one-on-one episode with
01:11:56.140 each person if if you have more time for us at any point in the next year um we love to get to
01:12:02.420 dig deeper into your work we would be really honored to have you and then I'll get to ask
01:12:06.300 more of my 7 000 questions but for now um Kelly thank you so much for raising your hand and for
01:12:13.580 being here go ahead thank you so much for this i'm i'm just my jaws on the floor this has been
01:12:21.920 amazing and i too probably have about a million questions but um uh i'll say too i'm on unceded
01:12:29.060 territory as a settler stock and um see my tiny contribution towards reconciliation or
01:12:40.340 decolonization as being um addressing my my kin if if I can put it that way and what are some of
01:12:48.920 the things that we're doing and maybe could be doing better um so I feel like this is kind of an
01:12:53.840 an unachieved question you know there's maybe bigger things to talk about but I'd be curious
01:12:58.480 to hear what you think I'll add to that a lot of my work is in is in death care and I see this was
01:13:06.200 touched upon um part of that work is trying to help and i see it especially with in within white
01:13:13.660 western culture is with this idea that not everything is for us there are limits to
01:13:18.620 everything and that applies to climate change it applies to our own our own deaths and certainly
01:13:23.560 it applies to appropriation so i'll give a specific example but um obviously it's about
01:13:30.800 bigger things than this but i i'd love to hear what you think about smudging because especially
01:13:35.980 within the witch community um i encounter this regularly and uh there'll be no indigenous people
01:13:45.420 present you know from turtle island and there's a sense that uh there's just a sense of entitlement
01:13:51.980 around this um for many of us seining is in our cultural backgrounds but what's happening here
01:13:58.780 looks like nothing like a traditional seining practice would be and I'm just wondering what
01:14:06.640 your thoughts are around this I tend to use it as a an opportunity to talk about the fact that again
01:14:12.160 not everything is for us and maybe maybe some of what's asked of us is to leave this alone
01:14:20.380 just as an act of solidarity but maybe that's a mistake maybe this is an opportunity for
01:14:26.660 relationship building or for developing you know a kinship with the plants and um so yeah i would
01:14:32.480 just i would love to hear what uh what some of the panelists think about this thank you
01:14:38.080 well i i do know that for myself um it kind of comes back to that experience i had with my cousin
01:14:48.160 you know look to your own culture um because we're you know we're not the only culture that
01:14:55.100 uses smudging it's it's a widely you know held practice with different plant medicines
01:15:01.240 I think it's really important to consider the access of the medicines like where did you get
01:15:08.500 it from we know that white sage is being abused in their traditional territories and you know
01:15:18.840 I feel like others can speak to this better um but uh it can be tricky I think for myself I prefer
01:15:27.980 like I tell people like you know just go find yourself a Native person
01:15:31.880 but you know if if that's not feasible then you know why do you want to do that and and is there
01:15:39.480 a medicine that's that's accessible to you that you can do that with and in Algonquin territory
01:15:45.160 we have uh clary sage or algonquin sage that grows everywhere um lots of out east actually
01:15:51.980 i found out on a recent road trip too so um but yeah that's my two cents i'll i'll share them like
01:15:58.500 awesome so granddaughter crow here i love the question because it is practical in nature
01:16:08.500 and um i would say i definitely agree with what crystal had said about there are other things
01:16:17.100 that you can burn and so then i also want to reflect on what margaret had said earlier
01:16:23.300 about what is it that you are looking for when you are doing that act so if you are looking for
01:16:30.140 cleansing there are so many other ways to do cleansing so kind of figure out what you want
01:16:37.460 the act of burning is a very beautiful act because it's a transformational thing
01:16:44.920 and I can see especially with people who work closely with death burning is a very
01:16:52.160 wonderful thing but we can also burn incense we can burn candles we can burn I love cedar
01:17:01.460 because I look at the plant itself. And for me, the juniper bush is not something that I want to
01:17:08.960 go up and hug. So I see that it's very protective in nature. And so then I go, oh, I want to put
01:17:17.520 protection around, you know, go outside, you know, sometimes I leave a coin or leave something when I
01:17:23.960 take something and and then I and then I'll burn the cedar and so you know I don't want to get too
01:17:32.040 hung up on personally because I get asked this question too personally you know listen to your
01:17:38.100 spirit listen to your body look at the work that you're doing be aware that there are other things
01:17:43.020 that you can burn and that burning things isn't necessarily it's the act of doing it and think
01:17:50.400 about what is it and secondly the nose and the sense of smell is one of our biggest memory
01:17:59.900 recallers so maybe you're really hooked on the sage because it draws up these memories of cleansing
01:18:08.420 so then what I would say if you're like oh maybe I shouldn't burn as much sage I'm not telling you
01:18:15.100 to burn sage or not that's up to you and your spirit and your awareness but I'm saying if you
01:18:19.980 want to maybe burn less because of the shortages then go into meditation which is really easy put
01:18:27.840 your little fingertips together inhale through the nose for a few counts hold it within the body
01:18:33.580 and exhale through the mouth you do this for like three minutes you are from you know you're into
01:18:40.600 an alpha state you're into this and then pull that energy but while you're doing this burn
01:18:46.260 something else. Maybe it is a certain other scent so that you can start attaching what you are
01:18:55.400 smelling and feeling with that scent. And then when you don't have time because you're running
01:19:01.040 around and you need to get into that space really quickly for somebody, you just burn your little
01:19:06.140 incense or burn, burn that candle or smell that lavender and the dram or whatever it is. So that's,
01:19:12.800 that's what i would say i love everything everyone's already said and my my only thought is um
01:19:19.680 i have some friends and colleagues laura ogden and nicholas rio and they've done stuff they've
01:19:24.560 done work sorry on invasive plants in the great ways and one of and nick is uh anishinaabe and
01:19:31.280 laura is a great scholar but they um they work with community members and uh the lesson that
01:19:37.280 kind of came around invasive plants was that if they're here they have something to teach us 0.94
01:19:42.240 and so you know something that also I think is appropriate for white settlers to do is sort of 0.56
01:19:46.840 maybe look around and see like what invasive plants did colonizers bring here that are now
01:19:52.780 sitting right there for you to do plant medicine where it was and so like I've fallen in love with
01:19:57.440 the purple dead nettle in my yard I'm just totally taken by it it's just so beautiful and I it's
01:20:03.320 obviously trying to tell me something and so in the spirit of that lesson that Laura and Nick have
01:20:08.340 you know sort of shared through their work with community members I'm also trying to listen to
01:20:11.940 like what do some of these so-called invasive species have to say and like obviously they're
01:20:17.420 not invasive they didn't have a choice they were brought here you know they've made lives here and
01:20:22.740 they do I really like that idea that they have something to tell us so um yeah so I've been now
01:20:29.320 I'm paying attention to all of the sort of so-called weeds that I find and they all have 1.00
01:20:34.000 really powerful roles and so I think that's something very ethical for white settlers to 0.95
01:20:38.940 work with are the plants that that you co-transported maybe not on purpose but got here 0.60
01:20:44.380 anyway and there's abundance of them and maybe that can also help shift the balance between
01:20:53.480 those plants and and the species that were here to help sort of affect you know address the fact
01:20:58.880 that you know things like white sage and others have been so heavily impacted by colonial
01:21:04.360 extraction and things like that anyway that's that's my thought but all of everything everyone said just
01:21:08.940 makes so much sense this is the greatest podcast this is just like just to get to talk about like
01:21:13.880 real practical embodied things it's such a nice like that's so nice so thank you
01:21:20.440 the greatest podcast you guys you just made the greatest podcast
01:21:25.800 um I feel like it's so empowering what you're suggesting in response to this question too right
01:21:33.980 Like, if we are children of settler descendants, and we carry this wall of like, not being allowed to feel not being supposed to feel that kind of and then the sort of violence that happened in our families, our version of playing out that that colonialism, sometimes it can feel like you're not supposed to have a relationship with a plant or the earth at all.
01:21:59.420 you know you're just supposed to buy and consume relationships your relationship with the world is
01:22:05.640 you can you you use your labor and your body to buy things to keep capital spinning until you die
01:22:13.040 and that's how you're allowed to interact with the world you know I think that's sort of as part of
01:22:18.300 the colonial colonial settler body right so to be told like no you are allowed to have a relationship 0.84
01:22:25.340 with plants just don't fucking steal everybody else's relationship you're allowed to listen to
01:22:32.300 your body you're allowed to to to smell a plant to to listen to it to hear it that's okay that's
01:22:39.100 not stealing a culture you know just don't anyway it's really it's it's a really empowering shift
01:22:44.360 that you're that you're offering in the response to that question and and in everything you've said
01:22:49.560 here thank you so much um we have four minutes left i we try to be real strict about time with
01:22:58.700 our guests so that we don't take more than we've asked for amy do you want to call it out call out
01:23:06.200 the the gifts again one more time i do but first um once again i think like we have questions for
01:23:14.860 first nations people but now we live in a time where first nations people are writing books
01:23:20.300 like granddaughter crow and they are producing work that we can purchase so you know perhaps
01:23:29.100 we can purchase some work before we go and ask people for their for their labor and their
01:23:36.120 and their time and once again in that spirit um i want to remind everyone that this is a
01:23:42.840 fundraiser but before i do my spiel i want to ask margaret and crystal and gdc and zoe can we just
01:23:50.080 go around very quickly so you can tell our listeners where they can find you um if how
01:23:54.400 they can support your current project and then we'll circle back to my speech margaret
01:24:00.340 uh well i i don't have uh i don't have any sort of uh economic uh connection to folks but um
01:24:11.920 Yeah, if you're looking to talk to me about culture and wellness, I work at Dalhousie University. You can find me there at mrobinson at dal.ca, D-A-L. And if you just Google Margaret Robinson, you'll probably find me.
01:24:26.120 there are some other Margaret Robinsons who are also in academia. One of them is a well-known
01:24:31.680 mathematician. But if you Google, like, if you add in Indigenous or Bisexual or Queer or Two-Spirit,
01:24:40.260 that you'll find the one that's me. Before we wrap up, I just want to say on the smudging thing 0.86
01:24:47.280 to recognize that these traditions are still in process and still developing. So Wanda Whitebird,
01:24:53.680 a Mi'kmaq elder who does work with people living with HIV in order to do smudging in hospitals 0.99
01:25:00.060 where you couldn't burn stuff, developed a way to do a wet smudge. And so there are new types of 0.92
01:25:06.400 this kind of activity developing all the time. And so it's not just a thing frozen in time,
01:25:12.860 it's a live culture. And I love the way that challenges like that bring out new creative
01:25:20.320 uh inspiration in people thank you granddaughter crow what's the title of your latest book
01:25:26.880 okay so um i spoke about wisdom of the natural world um which is we did a podcast on that which
01:25:36.680 is um episode 100 you can get that amazon wherever you get your books it's produced by call out to
01:25:43.820 Llewellyn Worldwide my publisher and my next book is coming out actually June 8th and it is called
01:25:52.920 Belief Being and Beyond so when Margaret was talking about the comparative religions and
01:25:57.480 Crystal posed that question and Zoe's talking about these things I'm like oh this book is about
01:26:04.860 bringing all of our similarities together and we are probably going to Missing Witches I'll be on
01:26:11.820 their podcast I think in June or something like that to be able to talk about this so look for
01:26:17.860 that and otherwise google granddaughter crow and all that stuff is mine because that's just a weird
01:26:26.580 ass name right most people go oh I'm an elder call me grandmother and I'm like oh if it wasn't for my
01:26:32.480 grandfather and spirit I wouldn't be here so I'm granddaughter and it keeps my ego right-sized
01:26:38.400 um www.granddaughtercrow.com thank you listeners for doing this and thank you
01:26:45.120 missing witches for doing this and i hope we raise a lot of money for more awareness
01:26:49.720 crystal oh um instagram at crystal underscore dawn with an e uh also at blackbird medicines
01:27:05.920 um got the website too blackbirdmedicines.ca and we're on facebook here there everywhere
01:27:14.080 um we're working on an indigenous death doula training program uh if you're not indigenous
01:27:19.880 please don't ask me to take this course um that's how you can support me so thank you so much
01:27:26.140 it's such an honor to be here and i'm gonna this is gonna just rock my rest of my spring so thank
01:27:33.000 you and of course all of these links will be in the show notes for the this episode so everybody
01:27:39.600 you can head to our website dr zoe todd um just deep gratitude to everyone uh and and thank you
01:27:50.360 to missing witches for hosting us and this was just i just feel so good after this like just
01:27:55.800 everyone on the panel was so brilliant um you can find me online uh you can go to instagram i'm
01:28:02.600 Dr. Fish Philosopher Todd I think or Dr. Fish Philosopher over there and there there's like a
01:28:08.920 link tree and it'll take you to my various different platforms and I work with the Institute
01:28:13.780 for Freshwater Fish Futures which is just kind of our cheeky little collaborative way of building
01:28:19.680 beyond the university and so we have a website freshwaterfishfutures.ca and that's where you can
01:28:26.360 find some of my collaborations with all the amazing people I work with yeah and I make art so there's
01:28:31.960 links to my art on the instagram um as well so just yeah uh thank you this was just so great
01:28:38.340 and i have some books to go buy now too
01:28:41.280 thank you all so much again you know support all of our panelists work and if they don't have
01:28:50.760 anything for purchase then you can support their work by enacting their vision of our utopian
01:28:56.880 society. And if you have anything left in your pocket to spare, once again, we always end these
01:29:05.140 by closing the ritual that we've opened. And I hope that all of you who are listening will close
01:29:11.500 the ritual with a ritual sacrifice. And that's what we're asking you to do today, to make a ritual
01:29:17.140 sacrifice today. Please help our collective future by making a small reparation to First Nations
01:29:25.120 women who have been systematically marginalized and disenfranchised both socially and economically
01:29:33.300 let's offer our money with humility and then bask in pride as we witness what we can do when we work
01:29:42.220 together and I do want to add we're here to undo the curses together this event this episode this
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01:32:28.440 a list of ideas for places to donate in canada will be on our website and our socials and for
01:32:35.120 those of you who are here live that link is live now so you can go to our website and check that
01:32:39.640 out but maybe wait until after this conversation is over so make your donation and if you like
01:32:48.820 tell us about who you're supporting and why last year we highlight a bunch of these organizations
01:32:54.840 in our stories and it was wonderful to be able to share who everyone else is also supporting
01:33:00.040 with our following so take your screenshot of your receipt email it to missingwitches at gmail.com
01:33:06.960 with the subject line donation plus the amount of your donation lucky donors will win amazing prizes
01:33:12.680 and everyone who donates will get a digital coupon book with discount codes from our favorite witchy
01:33:17.840 businesses we'll run the fundraiser from today through the month of may winners will be drawn
01:33:22.920 at random and announced on June 1st. Just to give our Raffle Prize donors a bit of heat, we have
01:33:28.660 Amy Owen, who's going to do an astrology reading and a painting of the chart. GDC, who's here today,
01:33:34.220 is going to give us a reading plus a copy of your upcoming new book, which we're so excited to talk
01:33:40.080 about. North Atlantic Books is giving us three copies of Banana Leaves. We wanted Jessica to be
01:33:45.100 here today but she's booked so instead we're gonna spread her book around um unearthed minerals is
01:33:53.560 giving us a broom necklace angela aka heart wise woman is doing a bone throw reading melissa is
01:34:00.560 doing an akashic records reading jessica from dear woman is doing a tarot reading sammy has given us
01:34:06.300 a necklace set kate baloo a custom personalized poem james from a quiet practice has hand woven
01:34:12.320 an altar cloth for this fundraiser uh venus and retro tarot reading sherry that hoodoo lady
01:34:19.500 an ancestor production connection plus a copy of her book and moth and magic is doing a handmade
01:34:26.240 custom granny square cardigan that i want so badly that i wish i could enter and win all of 0.95
01:34:34.560 these prizes and bless a fucking bee and bless a fucking bee thanks everybody thanks everybody 0.94
01:34:40.500 see you next time 0.99
01:34:42.300 I'm glad
01:34:43.800 thanks so much 1.00
01:34:45.000 you must be a witch 1.00
01:34:50.200 happy belting 1.00