Missing Witches - WF Edgar Fabián Frías： I'm Hopeful For The Magic We Are All Weaving...We Are Transforming Hierarchies

00:00:00.320 We've been missing you. Do you want to find the witch friends you've been missing? Do you want 1.00

00:00:04.480 to participate in these conversations live? And do you want to support the work of recovering

00:00:09.080 a true history of feminist ideas about magic? Do you want to hang out? Do you want an invite

00:00:15.220 to Zoom together with Amy and myself, every new moon, along with our hilarious, diverse,

00:00:21.720 wise queer creative anti-racist science and awe-loving coven you must join the missing

00:00:30.420 witches patreon it's pay what you can and we can't wait to meet you there patreon.com 0.96

00:00:37.180 slash missing witches you aren't being a proper woman therefore you must be a witch 0.99

00:00:41.680 you must be a witch 0.99

00:00:46.560 i'm so happy to see you oh my gosh so so happy to be here so glad that we could do this 0.77

00:00:55.940 me too it's been so long since we spoke you didn't get to hang with amzy last time she

00:01:01.720 didn't get to bask in you and it's good i've got a i've got a three-year-old question here that's

00:01:09.580 been it's been fermenting yeah okay I'm gonna take a deep breath and do it like a proper podcast

00:01:19.560 open and then we'll jump in with our three-year-old questions and our questions from

00:01:25.840 from three-year-olds everything in between oh I'm rolling my shoulders listeners I hope your

00:01:34.700 shoulders are dropping a little bit as you step back into this space with us welcome witches

00:01:40.080 welcome practitioners of all kinds welcome snowflakes welcome gardeners welcome people in

00:01:48.420 the park and the trees in the park and the lichen and the flowers and snow and the dreams of all

00:01:54.140 those things melding together leading us in to our crafting and our work of resistance and

00:01:59.620 re-enchantment and if you're going to talk about resistance and re-enchantment and you're going to 0.85

00:02:05.040 delve into the weaving of the web and you're going to get inspired by indigenous futurisms

00:02:10.740 then you couldn't talk with anyone better than Edgar Fabian Frias and they're here with us today 0.74

00:02:17.140 they're back and we're just like giggly and glowing already to be encircled together so I

00:02:22.580 hope that you feel in yourselves that you're sort of giggly and glowy and sort of simmering into

00:02:27.980 this circle with us welcome back my friend my web friend

00:02:33.380 bless the webs that connect us so so grateful to be here oh my gosh yeah thank you so much for that

00:02:42.980 I'm feeling the all the glowy sparkly magic inside of me and I'm hoping that the folks who are

00:02:50.060 listening can feel into that too and know that we're all connected through that glow through

00:02:55.240 that web yeah certainly what first drew me to you as a personality and you as an artist is that

00:03:01.020 beaming it comes through the internet this beaming glow I mean I've sent you a hundred love letters

00:03:07.140 so you know this but just so our listeners know and their children's children may also someday know

00:03:15.780 the the beam is is palpable please get on if you're not already on Edgar's Instagram

00:03:21.120 do yourself a favor. For your mental health. How has your practice been? How has your heart been?

00:03:29.500 We spoke pre-pandemic days. How is your love? How is your work? How are you doing?

00:03:36.680 You know, I think like most folks all over the place, I'm in my last semester at UC Berkeley

00:03:44.320 in the MFA art practice program so my art practice has definitely taken the forefront of my life and

00:03:52.300 I've been really just diving deep into it and trying to understand what I'm doing and why I'm

00:03:57.540 doing and you know and also being someone who does so many things like trying to get a sense of what

00:04:02.560 feels important what feels like I should focus on in the next few years and yeah but it's definitely

00:04:09.560 been a challenge you know this pandemic has really brought so much out into the light and

00:04:16.240 it's also really called upon our resources I know that a lot of us are tired a lot of us have had a

00:04:23.880 lot of grief a lot of us have been moving through so many shifting dynamics in our lives I feel like

00:04:29.760 socially and culturally we're going through so many shifts and that level of destabilization

00:04:35.500 is super exciting. And I'm like leaning heavily into my like Gemini sun that loves uncertainty

00:04:41.540 and not knowing what's going to happen. And also, I know that some of us are yearning for stability

00:04:47.340 and for some sort of certainty and scaffolding and structure. And so I also hold space for that too.

00:04:53.480 Yeah, I feel that very strongly in myself too. Like I'm excited and I also need to like limit

00:05:00.500 my exposure to things in a in a much more intense way than I ever did before like my my boundary

00:05:06.200 work has to be so much more intense than before because I'm just raw and scared and and excited

00:05:11.980 too I noticed your bio has some words now around like ritual and resistance or crafting and

00:05:19.680 resistance is that something that's part of how you're thinking about that negotiating that these

00:05:25.300 days yeah I I've definitely been sitting with the you know the the larger cultural implication of

00:05:32.120 the work that we're doing and the way that as we've witnessed you know the more that witches

00:05:38.660 are stepping into their power more and more people are feeling that permission creating their own

00:05:45.000 webs their own networks and also been really thinking a lot about craft and the role of craft

00:05:51.400 in resistance and resilience and really expanding what craft means knowing that even what we're

00:05:58.340 doing today is a craft right like coming together digitally we're holding space we're holding space

00:06:04.660 with all the people that are listening here and just thinking of craft as something that we're all

00:06:10.820 exploring and also transforming together and I think that's something that's been really exciting

00:06:16.560 is witnessing the ways that people are really inspiring each other we're all learning from

00:06:22.740 each other in so many different ways and that to me feels like moving beyond that like individual

00:06:27.700 artist myth and really moving into more like collective consciousness that we're all creating

00:06:35.920 together I think we are a part of a huge movement that people are naming but also I do think we're

00:06:42.480 still at the tip of the iceberg of what's actually happening. I think so too what do you what are some

00:06:47.780 things you think that that craft practice looks like you know when it's when it's web aware when

00:06:53.140 it's distributed when it's resistance informed? Yeah it you know it can take so many shapes I

00:06:58.820 think a lot about folks who are like organizing who are using the internet to redistribute funds

00:07:05.180 to support different communities, to use magic, to make connections. And also as, you know,

00:07:13.840 folks who traverse through the digital sphere, really thinking a lot about what we do as craft

00:07:18.940 too. And I think that's been a big growth place for me is I have, you know, as someone who works

00:07:25.440 a lot with like archaic, indigenous, ancient technologies, I've also really come to understand

00:07:33.000 that kind of more contemporary digital is also a big part of what I do. And I've been really

00:07:38.440 honored to meet other Indigenous artists who are working within the digital in many different ways

00:07:44.440 and who've really shared with me how the digital is its own craft. And I don't really think I

00:07:49.800 thought of it that way. I feel like I've always thought of the digital. I don't know. I don't

00:07:55.820 know where I relegated that to before, but it's almost like I'm really starting to understand

00:08:00.380 that like time that we invest in the digital is a craft and that it takes time there's steep

00:08:05.040 learning curves and there's so much that you have to unfold and really process to be able to

00:08:11.260 do what we do right to have these systems in place to do what we do and certainly we see this from

00:08:16.500 you all the time this like this post is a spell on instagram like you've really taken this like

00:08:22.820 digital world and solidified it concretized it as like a magical practice and something i really

00:08:30.760 want to get to you but i mean it's not a total non-sequitur is that i have a fascinating example

00:08:38.060 of your work as resistance as ritual and that's you and the golden dome school did like sort of

00:08:47.680 a reactionary ritual called the resurrection of care can you talk about the cremation of care

00:08:55.260 just a little bit and then what prompted all of you to do this sort of inverted mirror ritual

00:09:02.260 so when I first heard about the cremation of care I thought it was fake I like couldn't believe that

00:09:08.360 it was real um so just saying that first in case when you hear this you're like what um so every

00:09:14.440 year in Northern California, in a place called Bohemian Grove, they have a ceremony that is

00:09:23.220 called the cremation of care. And it is done by some of the world's largest political, economic

00:09:29.820 people. There are sometimes US presidents, sometimes large bankers who go and they get

00:09:36.480 really drunk and they burn things and they burn a body. Some people have said it's a real body,

00:09:42.760 other people say it's not. And they do this to destroy care. And the reason they want to destroy

00:09:48.160 care is because care gets in the way of profit. And so when I first heard about it, as I said,

00:09:54.760 I was really in disbelief. And then I saw that there's a Wikipedia page about it. And the same

00:10:00.400 day that I was told by Eliza Swan of the Golden Dome about this, I happened to hang out with my

00:10:07.160 partner and a friend of his and his friend grew up near Bohemian Grove and said, yes, it's very

00:10:13.000 real. Everyone who lives there knows about it. They don't try to hide it. And so of course,

00:10:18.900 Eliza wanted to create something that would respond to this ritual. And the resurrection

00:10:24.460 of care is done shortly after their cremation of care. And it's the community coming together

00:10:31.180 to resurrect care and to do some counter magic.

00:10:34.380 We've done it now for several years

00:10:36.800 in many different ways during the pandemic.

00:10:39.400 We did it on YouTube, so it's on there.

00:10:41.840 You could access that at any point.

00:10:43.800 And last year, we did it in Los Angeles

00:10:46.820 for the first time in person since the pandemic began.

00:10:49.940 So it's definitely taken many shapes

00:10:52.100 and it's kind of been all over the place.

00:10:54.480 Yeah, I just absolutely love this notion

00:10:57.620 because a lot of us, most of us, let me say,

00:11:00.540 We we turn to magic when we feel helpless, when we feel like, you know, maybe we've run out of concrete activism, concrete activism.

00:11:09.840 I'm using scare quotes, everybody.

00:11:11.640 Now we've run out of letter writing campaigns.

00:11:13.960 And then we turn to magic is like that sort of final push, that Hail Mary of like, I give this to someone else.

00:11:22.180 So for me, it's so enthralling, this notion of counter ritual of saying this is what these people are doing.

00:11:30.540 and so this is what we're going to do I I just it gets me so excited just because we're all

00:11:37.820 looking at these things and there are so many things that we're looking at right now that are

00:11:41.640 coming into our feeds and coming into our lives and our consciousness that have always been there

00:11:45.780 but like you say you know things are more visible and it's demeaning and again they want they they

00:11:52.020 want us to feel hopeless like you say like caring goes against profit so if we can take

00:11:59.660 that bad feeling that we get from witnessing these things and turn them around into our own

00:12:06.620 force of positive change this is to me like such a contemporary form of magic to really be like

00:12:15.860 no I am going to be a power against this this it's a very powerful no can you speak to the

00:12:23.420 power of no maybe yeah I think you know it I really liked how um you know it was mentioned

00:12:30.700 before that boundaries are really important right now right and I definitely feel like no

00:12:37.740 as people say is a complete sentence and it is incredibly powerful to put up those boundaries

00:12:44.640 and to also as you're naming to alchemize and transmute energy I think that art practice

00:12:50.540 ritual ceremony, community building, those are all practices that can really transmute energy

00:12:56.860 and change energy. And some of my most powerful spells have come from exactly those moments where

00:13:03.980 I feel disempowered, I feel angry, I feel like there's no hope. And I turn to my practice as a

00:13:12.180 space to really allow that energy to become something else. And so much of this society

00:13:19.360 expects us to accept things or to feel that disempowerment in the face of things and

00:13:27.300 being able to set boundaries and also being able to create something new and to potentially even

00:13:34.880 offer another vision, another possibility. That is so incredibly powerful. And I think that's

00:13:41.120 what a lot of people are so hungry for because they are so banking on us just being exhausted

00:13:47.660 and overwhelmed. And there are so many witches who are holding that light. And I think that's

00:13:53.380 why so many people are turning towards witches. I think so too. I think it's so profound the way

00:13:58.920 that this curiarchy of capitalism, patriarchy is so intent on making us feel alone and exhausted.

00:14:08.700 And so having those moments where you truly feel amplified, that you feel like even if you're

00:14:15.140 under six feet of snow and pandemic era and you're by yourself that this weaving that you're doing

00:14:21.300 is connected that your your light is so I want to tell you um and then and then ask you about

00:14:26.860 your most powerful experiences with spells I think it was a resurrection of care that I did here

00:14:32.700 it was one that was sort of shared with the community to do I walked with a friend counter

00:14:36.920 clockwise like you know we had a fire lit and we were storming and yelling and throwing things into

00:14:42.240 it called you know and then we we started walking it clockwise and it was dark and it was summer and

00:14:48.040 it was windy and we were we were building up our our dreams and our wishes and then right over us

00:14:54.300 this is the only time it's ever happened here a flying squirrel which they're extremely rare here

00:15:00.500 like they're but they exist flew over us and landed like on a chair and just sat there long

00:15:06.620 enough for us to both be like shit that really happened like we didn't imagine that that was 0.90

00:15:12.420 sat and looked at us and scampered away like no I'm not a bat like get a good look 0.98

00:15:18.520 and it was one of these moments that we always go back to of like the natural world is is winking at

00:15:26.400 us that we're not alone you know so I want to hear stories from you when you said you know my

00:15:31.140 most powerful experiences with magic have been dot dot dot if there's any you feel like you could

00:15:36.560 share? Yeah, I think one that comes forward, it feels connected to the Golden Dome. And when I

00:15:43.720 had finished my graduate program in Portland, Oregon, for clinical mental health counseling,

00:15:50.860 I decided to take a moment to be in ceremony by myself. And I, for the first time ever, consumed

00:15:57.620 psilocybin mushrooms. And I had a really profound experience, a really profound vision that fully

00:16:02.900 transformed my life and one of the visions that I had among many was this vision of witches and

00:16:09.440 visionaries and artists like holding that light that we've been talking about and I just kept

00:16:15.520 getting the vision of that light being held and people and communities and animals all turning

00:16:22.760 towards that energy and things starting to get reorganized and I got a really big profound

00:16:28.460 message around the wounding that's happened to our communities by dislocating the witch from the

00:16:35.640 center and dislocating the visionaries from the center of community and I really got the message

00:16:42.680 very loud and clear from the mushroom kingdom that the witches were being brought back into the

00:16:47.580 center they were being brought back into community and it it was just such a profound experience for

00:16:53.220 me and years later on the anniversary of this day because I remember I like I remember this day so

00:16:59.440 clearly on the anniversary of this day I realized that I had been invited by Eliza Swan to the

00:17:05.460 Golden Dome to go present a workshop on divination and it was the first time that I was really

00:17:12.220 communing with other witches and really seeing other witches being supported for their work it

00:17:17.500 was like the first time I was receiving money to teach about divination like the first time that

00:17:22.680 I realized that there was a huge community of artists that were really excited about this.

00:17:27.240 And it really felt profound to have a personal journey like that during a time when I still

00:17:34.220 feel really alienated for being a witch and being an artist. And I know so many of us who have found

00:17:40.520 each other through these webs, you know, whether they're digital or mycelial webs, like the many

00:17:46.180 of us who found each other all really do speak to that. Also that moment of feeling really alienated

00:17:51.300 or really isolated. And then the joy that comes from finding each other and realizing that there's

00:17:56.200 so many of us. And I think that's one of the most profound moments because I do feel like my entire

00:18:02.320 world changed from that moment. It went from this is something I do on my own to, oh, wow, no, this

00:18:09.440 is something I do in community. And of course, I think that's transformed so much with the pandemic

00:18:14.460 and it still continues. I think we're just really relying on the digital spheres so much more now

00:18:20.660 to continue to do this work to continue to build and so what are some practical ways

00:18:26.500 for listeners to find and support that web to feel connected yeah um there's so much you could do i

00:18:35.020 think one thing that's really incredible for witches is that we get to self-ordain we get to

00:18:40.320 really decide that we are witches that we are the ones we've been looking for and so if you're

00:18:46.140 feeling disempowered or you're feeling alone I think being able to step into your role in whatever

00:18:52.640 role you decide for yourself and then being able to look around and see who else is doing similar

00:18:59.080 work and I know so many witches are really open to having conversation and to connecting and we

00:19:05.840 want to build community and so I you know this is a whole other conversation but I know that you

00:19:11.740 You know, many witches exist on social media, many witches exist on discords or on different

00:19:17.660 groups.

00:19:18.240 And so finding those people that you really resonate with and then seeing who they're

00:19:23.100 connected to and kind of maybe working through the digital webs to kind of follow the traces.

00:19:30.140 Definitely, if you find someone that you're really excited about, people who are doing

00:19:33.340 work that you're really into, I, you know, find ways to support them, attend people's

00:19:38.060 workshops attend their events give them donations when they are doing fundraising you know there's

00:19:44.440 so many ways to support these communities and I know that a lot of these communities are always

00:19:49.320 creating possibilities for engagement and and also like thinking about engagement in different ways

00:19:55.140 you know there I know there are witches who organize art events there which is who organize

00:19:59.680 tarot fundraisers so so there's lots of ways to kind of enter in and start building those

00:20:05.560 relationships i love how you took the um sort of self-promotion question and made it about how you

00:20:11.860 can support everybody else there there's this um back and forth really an uberus of of energy when

00:20:19.880 you when you find people who are holding the light to to continue that metaphor because you

00:20:26.160 are supporting them and you're supporting their cause but you're also getting that shine

00:20:30.220 you're also getting that warmth and shine a word that I've been using probably about a thousand

00:20:36.320 times more since we started this project than before is validating so validating to find people

00:20:43.860 when you feel like you're alone it's so validating to go and see yeah there are people who are

00:20:49.780 thinking what I'm thinking or doing what I'm doing and maybe doing it better and I can learn

00:20:54.840 from them but also you know while validating your own experience like learning to do better while

00:21:01.780 still validating your own experience that's been one of the most amazing things about the digital

00:21:06.320 web for me again living in the woods we have a lot of experience with sort of nature magic

00:21:11.260 but sometimes we we lose out a bit on the human contact aspect I you know I say all the time like

00:21:19.540 living in the woods without the internet is not I don't know like I'm a woods woman and I can do

00:21:26.060 all the things but I don't know if I would have been able to do this say you know 30 years ago

00:21:31.240 or whatever if I had been that kind of it's it's still having grown up without the internet it's

00:21:37.900 still such an amazing magical tool for me that it's like peewee's playhouse with the video phone

00:21:44.480 you know when i was growing up we'd watch pwe's playhouse and we would say oh imagine if we had

00:21:49.660 a video phone like i still i still get those pwe's play style feelings when i interact with

00:21:57.960 people online and to me that's magic to me that's like how technology creates magic yeah i like to

00:22:05.580 see projects and people that that hold on to that utopian ideal and possibility in the internet that

00:22:13.360 that thing that we sort of flickeringly see sometimes that's there despite a lot of

00:22:18.840 capitalism's encroachment and the alt-right encroachment of online spaces holding on to

00:22:25.060 those some of those ideals those open source ideals you know holding on to the magic holding

00:22:31.580 on to imagination into possibility and yeah I'd love to hear what question you were going to just

00:22:37.600 ask I would I was hoping that you could talk to us a bit about portals I feel like the internet

00:22:42.380 That is one. I watched a wonderful video that you did with Ylva Radashevsky about portals.

00:22:50.800 So can you like guide us maybe like toward how we might open portals in our own lives?

00:23:01.020 There's yeah, portals are infinitely accessible.

00:23:04.740 They can be opened in any moment and any space and you don't need any technology.

00:23:11.520 and although it can help sometimes to have technology to support you um and essentially

00:23:17.820 portal is you're opening up a space of possibility opening up a space of imagination and a portal

00:23:25.360 can connect you to anything and uh you know going you know thinking about the utopian or thinking

00:23:32.100 about the freedom the gift of being able to imagine other things into existence portals

00:23:41.040 are those openings into other possibilities and my first experience with a portal that I had

00:23:48.340 was when I was 14 and and I share about this a lot just I saw some artwork at the Los Angeles

00:23:54.800 County Museum of Art and when I was looking at the artwork I saw the physical work and also

00:24:01.780 something else happened something else opened up in front of me and it was very much my ancestors

00:24:08.200 my guides, even though I didn't have that language at that time, really wanted me to see beyond what

00:24:14.660 was physically in front of me and wanted me to feel the disorientation, the confusion that can

00:24:21.960 happen when we are met with something that pierces through the veil. And that is the gift of the

00:24:28.700 portal is that it allows us to see beyond the 3D space. And, you know, we've been talking about

00:24:34.120 capitalism and the ways that we get to build something new and create something new, co-create

00:24:42.100 something new. And I think one of the biggest lessons that I've learned by being in witch

00:24:48.920 community is that it can be incredibly healing to really see other people's success as your own,

00:24:57.740 to really see other people's growth as your own and to move beyond the self and to move into a

00:25:05.860 more communal space where we're all holding something together. And so portals can even

00:25:12.300 open you up into other possibilities of existing. And I really do believe that collectively as

00:25:19.140 witches, many of us are holding space to open up a portal into another future, one that does

00:25:25.200 start to move away more and more from this incredibly archaic system of capitalism that

00:25:32.260 is, as we know, no longer serving us. And I really see the work that we're doing to unlearn things,

00:25:41.280 to relearn things, to reconnect to things that we've been forced to disconnect from.

00:25:48.060 All of that work is completely a part of opening up this portal, opening up this space

00:25:53.160 of possibility and to get a little more practical you can open up a portal in ceremony you can open

00:26:00.840 up a portal by creating artwork and every time you open up your phone or the internet you know

00:26:06.500 your computer you're opening up a portal of possibility as well and it's so recursive it

00:26:12.840 doesn't go just one way so you're as you're peering out you're also being being seen as well

00:26:18.440 And so know that you are having an impact. The work that you're doing is having an impact and that other people are perceiving what you're doing and you're really adding to the collective. And I think that's also the power of portals is that they can connect us all.

00:26:31.980 Could you connect that idea of imagining, encanting, portaling new possibilities to the idea of Indigenous futurism? So I've been thinking about them as like a hyper sigil, you know, Black futurisms, Afrofuturism, Indigenous futurisms with the language of sigils. Can you talk about how you think about that these days?

00:26:51.120 Yeah, I'm actually working for my thesis show. I'm working on a vision. You brought up the white supremacist alt-right encroachment earlier. And I unfortunately have had my immediate family fall into a QAnon algorithm. That's how I'm calling it.

00:27:10.520 And yeah, and it's been incredibly frustrating and heartbreaking. And I have felt very stuck

00:27:18.040 in that energy. And so I've turned to my Indigenous ancestors for support. I have been

00:27:24.840 connecting with some sacred ceremonial tools of my ancestors, and I've been bringing them into the

00:27:31.160 future, into the present, and imagining a place of care in the future. And that's really what I'm

00:27:36.820 working on is creating this place of care. I'm not actually making the space, but I'm making

00:27:41.360 the possibility of the space. And I think that's where Indigenous futurism and Afrofuturism offer

00:27:48.280 us so much magic is they give us the ability to weave with our ancestors, to create with our

00:27:57.020 ancestors, and to also bring forward our cultures into the future and into places where maybe they

00:28:06.160 were not meant to exist, at least with the white supremacist colonialist frameworks that have

00:28:13.080 existed. And that's been really powerful is to reimagine objects, customs, practices, and think

00:28:22.040 about how they can exist on the internet, how they could exist digitally, how they can exist

00:28:28.300 in a way that more and more people can have access to them and to commune with them. And

00:28:35.220 I think that that is so inspiring to me to be able to imagine possibilities even beyond what I can really see right now in the present. And it's also helped me feel more space to breathe around that stuckness that I've been feeling.

00:28:53.100 I really do believe in the power of our magic and of our art to transform and to move energies. And I'm so hopeful that this vision that I'm creating for the future will support what's happening for me right now in the present.

00:29:10.280 And I do know that our ancestors have all been speaking so much to us. And I think many of us have been called to really reflect our awareness, our energies back towards our ancestors, because that's been a big part of the dislocation that's happened because of capitalism is many of us have been separated from those cultures and those lands and those lineages.

00:29:33.320 And, of course, as most people know, when I say ancestor, I do mean blood ancestor, familial land ancestor, cultural ancestor, and I also mean spiritual ancestor, queer, transgender, expansive ancestor, animal, mineral, plant kin ancestor.

00:29:51.800 I'm very open and expansive when it comes to how I perceive ancestors, too.

00:29:56.780 Yeah, I've been really grounding myself in this idea of care too in a really, I mean, how many of us are in this moment right now we've had white supremacists camped out in our fucking capital here in Canada, we've been under an US funded invasion for, and just the terror and the fear and everyone's voice, you know, you see people who are already on the edge before we're just like, how can this be?

00:30:24.080 how can this be how can this be how can this be and then you have that friend from high school or

00:30:29.320 the uncle or beloved cousin like people sort of slipping into those algorithms as you put it so

00:30:36.080 perfectly and it's a lot about boundaries for me and it's a lot about believing that a vision

00:30:42.740 of care and for me that comes to like a guaranteed livable income for all you know

00:30:49.760 land back indigenous led protection of environment land spaces really practical you know i think that

00:30:57.480 those the idea of care is is really fucking practical and i do think that that is like i

00:31:03.140 want that i want that for those people too i want that for my racist uncle too you know i don't want 0.52

00:31:07.540 him to live in fear and trying to pay off his dental surgery anyway i'm saying this to the

00:31:12.720 listeners on the line to who i know all of us have been touched by this this year just to

00:31:18.060 amplify this vision of Edgar's and this space that he's making and and send love to his family

00:31:24.120 too that maybe there's some unstuckness there and feeling that for all of us you mentioned the

00:31:29.660 queer non-binary ancestors I mentioned to you in a in a message I keep getting messages from

00:31:35.860 people who are like can you guide me to non-binary witchcraft please find my friend

00:31:41.600 as your portal much better than me into this world because you have been such a guide for 0.55

00:31:48.480 me for that i i've i turn to your work a lot for for understanding what what that can mean

00:31:53.300 um insert question can you talk about it please expand i feel really blessed to be connected to

00:32:01.760 so many queer trans and gender um expansive folks and to imagine what it could mean to have

00:32:10.120 a spirituality where we are really connecting and communing with our ancestors and yeah I think

00:32:17.100 that's been such a big gift of the internet is to be able to find ourselves and to be able to

00:32:22.880 reconnect with each other and to be able to hold space together I think that that's been

00:32:28.600 so profound for me because you know that's another wounding that happens aside from being a witch and

00:32:34.280 from being a weirdo artist like you I also grew up incredibly alone and not able to see myself

00:32:40.380 in society you know I the only queer and trans people I knew were people that were like demonized

00:32:46.960 essentially growing up because I grew up very conservative in a Christian household and so

00:32:52.540 to be able to be that person to support other people is such a blessing and to be able to be

00:33:00.480 very public is such a blessing of course it does come with its own level of vulnerability and at

00:33:07.780 the same time I understand how alone it can feel to not feel like your existence is even real or

00:33:15.400 valid and I think that's what pushes us all you know who do this work to step into the ring you

00:33:22.280 know into the center and to say like hi I'm here even if it does mean that we might have some people

00:33:27.720 who don't see what we see or who are afraid who might come and attack us or who might be like

00:33:33.600 upset at seeing us and we have all seen how much anti-trans legislation and how much fear-mongering

00:33:41.100 there has been around the queer and trans community and as much as there's been around like the Black

00:33:46.140 Lives Matter movement and around the also expansion of rights for women and I think there's just so

00:33:53.160 much fear that's being fed into people's consciousness. And I think this is also kind

00:33:58.580 of going back to what we were talking about holding the light. And of course, witches hold

00:34:02.540 the light and the dark. And I think there's a way that sacred practices allow us to access

00:34:09.120 other states of awareness. And in some of these states of awareness, we're able to transcend

00:34:14.720 some of the binary thinking that this society really forces onto us. And that is where I do

00:34:19.880 develop that empathy that you're sharing for people who are really stuck like honestly really

00:34:24.380 stuck within fear-based separation-based binary ways of thinking and really starting to understand

00:34:31.480 like wow we are literally living in different dimensions dimensions of possibility of what's

00:34:36.960 real and and knowing that you know people who do get reactionary and who feel like they have to

00:34:44.600 fight and attack that that is coming from a place of lack of insecurity of fear and I'm hopeful for

00:34:52.040 the magic that we're all weaving that you know we are transforming hierarchies we are transforming

00:34:58.780 age old you know societal structures around gender around power that are so needed to be

00:35:06.780 restructured we've been talking so much about fear and anger and and it feels like those are the only

00:35:13.300 acceptable emotions for the times that we're living in and to the point where it feels like

00:35:20.640 joy is either like a guilty pleasure or a transgressive act so can you talk a little

00:35:28.460 bit about something that you I think you embody which is like transgressive acts of joy

00:35:34.260 uh yes yes i fully you know i think i've actually had this conversation a lot in my mfa program

00:35:44.780 um because i do feel like some people really get um fixated on the idea that revolutionary art

00:35:54.700 or revolutionary actions have to look a certain way and i'm really inspired by people for example

00:36:02.400 like the nap ministry there's so many amazing artists who are using pleasure and rest and

00:36:09.380 respite and joy oh my god the nap ministry I just want to say oh my god I love their work so much

00:36:16.240 yes so inspired so inspired and yeah I'm thinking of like other ways that we can really be

00:36:23.960 revolutionary and you know one of the things also Adrienne Marie Brown right like pleasure

00:36:28.600 activism is so profound and really does move so much energy it's it's such deep magic and I think

00:36:38.560 play and joy and and even confusion all these other emotions that allow for mutability for

00:36:45.240 flexibility and I even know in like group settings whenever I run groups there's always this like

00:36:52.680 way that like at the beginning of a group whenever someone makes a joke or there's something humorous

00:36:58.540 You could feel the shift in our bodies where we all like unite a little bit more and our nervous systems sync up. And I really feel like art can also do that. Art can help kind of move things around that maybe have felt stuck or calcified and needing a little bit of that support to shift.

00:37:16.620 And so that's also why I like to make art that is joyful, playful, that has pleasure in it, that attracts you, and also art that will confuse you, that will move you to question. And I think all of those are so important in art.

00:37:30.100 And, you know, I definitely know there's a time and place for really direct artwork that is really, like, concrete about what it's saying and all that. And I know that that's, like, not what excites me as an artist, too. I love people laughing at my work. I love people not knowing if they should laugh at my work.

00:37:50.340 I think all of those are really incredible responses that bring up that liminal space that I think is so fun in a way to work with.

00:37:58.700 Because I think as, you know, witches, we love the liminal and the liminal shows up in so many different ways.

00:38:03.820 Permission to laugh, I think, is like a great gift that we can give each other.

00:38:10.320 Yes, I think permission to be confused.

00:38:14.160 I think that's also like a big like that's something that I feel right now.

00:38:19.000 I'm a teacher at UC Berkeley and I've really noticed how art can be so

00:38:23.880 challenging for people who have been indoctrinated by the system of

00:38:27.860 education because there is this like almost like, you know,

00:38:32.300 there's a requirement and I'm using that with air quotes in the system to

00:38:36.600 understand things like really quickly or to like have a soundbite for

00:38:40.940 something. And, and art really pushes against that art is so layered and

00:38:45.700 complex and filled with contradictory meanings, you know, and all of that really can be so

00:38:51.700 shocking to the system.

00:38:53.020 And so I've noticed that in working with students, because right now I'm teaching an

00:38:57.580 introductory art class that is working with both students who are excited about art and

00:39:02.680 want to become art majors, and also with students who don't really know about art and are just

00:39:08.100 becoming, are taking the class as a requirement for their other programs.

00:39:11.660 And so I think I'm really sitting with how much it's disorienting for students to be met with this other way of understanding within the space of academia and institution.

00:39:23.960 And certainly for us witches who are contending with magic and people who don't understand that, and therefore, it's like, I don't understand, therefore it doesn't exist, which is like another whole leap, right?

00:39:39.040 so I love this idea of like getting comfortable with confusion you know we talk a lot about

00:39:44.120 knowing and not knowing but being comfortable with confusion is something that I'm really gonna

00:39:48.920 dig my teeth into so my dad volunteers in the theater department at Waldorf elementary school

00:39:56.620 and he was telling me that it's like a core practice of Waldorf teachers that when a child

00:40:03.240 asks a question instead of answering they say huh I wonder and so I've been doing this with

00:40:09.840 our three-year-old which elicits like the most elaborate world building right she's like why is

00:40:18.440 there snow huh I wonder I think it's because the wolf walkers they're angry but they're hungry and

00:40:24.940 there's a giant and you're like like yeah probably I don't know but I'm trying to like lean into this 0.56

00:40:31.480 space of i wonder and i'm gonna i'm gonna do like a stereotypical interviewer pivot and be like what

00:40:37.180 are some things you're wondering about edgar tell us what what what what is opening up wonder for

00:40:42.120 you oh my gosh so much yeah i you know i i made a video on my youtube channel about this but i've

00:40:48.780 really witnessed like how the internet is really shifting and um this um you brought up ilva

00:40:54.400 earlier but um kiki who's also in the living um altar brought up in a podcast i did a few months

00:41:00.980 ago that the internet is in its Saturn return and just thinking about how much we've all changed

00:41:08.220 during Saturn return and how transformative and painful and embarrassing and all that stuff that

00:41:14.660 our Saturn returns can be just thinking about what is going to happen after the internet moves

00:41:20.180 through its Saturn return is something that feels so scary and exciting and I'm definitely in

00:41:25.920 conversation with that too because i think we're all affected by this and so i've been seeing how

00:41:31.600 much um for example like how much witches are kind of you know understanding that we've been

00:41:37.580 using certain platforms to like spread our work and knowing witches are feeling called to like

00:41:42.520 expand upon the networks that they connect with or find new ones create new ones and also um i do

00:41:48.880 feel like there's a big big big thing happening around labor and around these hierarchies of

00:41:54.360 value that have been placed on labor and you know I I've definitely been sitting with like how much

00:42:00.580 we we feed these social media companies that are becoming multi you know billionaires off of our

00:42:07.600 labor and how we do so much of that labor for free knowing that it does you know connect us to people

00:42:13.780 it does like support our businesses and our practices and at the same time like we're not

00:42:19.000 becoming millionaires you know we're not becoming billionaires there are other people who are really

00:42:22.940 really receiving the benefit of that work. And so I do feel like that's also something that's

00:42:27.420 coming up alongside all the other issues of labor that are coming up of valuing who gets value. Do

00:42:33.900 artists get value? Do people who support the economy in other ways get valued? What does it

00:42:38.560 mean to be an essential worker? Like what does it mean to have a quote unquote no skilled job? Like

00:42:43.280 all of these things are being really, they're really mutable and they're also being brought

00:42:47.700 forward into community to really be talked about because there's so much of it that has been so

00:42:52.820 problematic and just used as a way to disenfranchise people and also to exploit people and to help

00:42:59.660 other people become rich and so there's so much of that that I'm like just feeling a lot of

00:43:04.820 excitement around and also feeling a lot of uncertainty and fear too of like these are

00:43:10.200 larger conversations that are starting to happen right now that are going to become more and more

00:43:15.180 important and yeah there's definitely a lot more too I feel but those are just a couple of things

00:43:22.020 that I can think of I mean yeah you've sort of lightly touched on the these enormous questions

00:43:27.340 of our time I thought that was such an interesting observation that she made about they made about

00:43:32.260 the internet being in its sad return because it sure does feel awkward it does feel weird

00:43:38.600 it sure does feel odd and I am optimistic but it but it feels strange I do want to open it up

00:43:44.900 since we I can see members of our coven here we have weavers and stitchers right here with us

00:43:51.220 If anyone wants to unmute and just respond or ask anything, we're actually in circle in communion together.

00:44:00.700 So I welcome you to do so.

00:44:02.480 I don't have any questions, but I just wanted to say how much I've been appreciating the conversation while I've been listening.

00:44:09.560 I always find Missing Witches podcast and Coven a great place to learn.

00:44:15.520 I've heard Edgar before so I was pretty excited that this actually worked out that I could join

00:44:20.920 in this time because I knew it was going to be great conversation so do appreciate that it's

00:44:25.540 been a difficult month between weather between what's going on out in the world so this has

00:44:30.720 been a great conversation to be listening to and inspires hope yeah to me that that's Edgar's

00:44:37.820 message all day long is like I never feel so much hope as I do when I'm engaging with your work

00:44:46.980 specifically Edgar again it's like it's joyful but it's also revolutionary it's welcoming but

00:44:55.220 it also has its boundaries you are having an impact by making us feel like we are having an

00:45:02.780 impact and I know I speak for the whole coven when we when I say we're just so grateful to exist

00:45:10.180 at the same time on the same continent of all of the billions of years that we could have been

00:45:16.760 existing and to be in this moment in this circle in in the world with someone like you it really

00:45:22.820 is such an inspiration inspiration is not a big enough word if any of you can come up with a

00:45:29.360 better words and inspiration please let me know I'm so honored to receive your words both of you

00:45:34.580 thank you so much and yeah just really grateful to the ways that we've been led to be here and

00:45:41.520 to find each other and to continue to find other people to weave into our webs I think that that's

00:45:49.520 you know I love you know earlier you sharing about the the story that you know your three-year-old

00:45:55.180 was sharing around the the snow and like I much someone who at some point in my life had to decide

00:46:01.580 if I was going to believe in magic or not and I really do feel like so much of society especially

00:46:08.120 going to academy academic you know higher education and also being you know surviving

00:46:15.120 in capitalism so much of society told me to like let go of my dreams and let go of this idea of

00:46:20.600 magic and in spite of that my ancestors kept waking me up in the middle of the night kept

00:46:26.640 coming back to me and telling me like no there's another reality here there's another another

00:46:32.320 reality that you can also make and create and the power of our stories the power of our vision is

00:46:40.260 so incredible and I've witnessed revolutionary change in my own personal life since I've started

00:46:48.120 to really deepen and lean into magic and I've witnessed so many transformations happen for

00:46:54.740 myself and so many of my friends from magic and and I think that that's like why I I spread that

00:47:03.040 message too is like because I know that I I'm not that special I know that like I have just been

00:47:10.280 listening to the guidance that's been coming in and so I like I really encourage people to listen

00:47:15.100 to those, you know, flying squirrels that come over us, you know, to listen to them, to see them,

00:47:21.080 to spend time with them, because those are sacred messages that really can support us in moving

00:47:26.320 beyond the false system that we're forced to orient towards all the time. There are other

00:47:33.260 elements that are wanting us to orient towards them. And I think that is something that witches

00:47:37.960 are so incredible at gifting other people is like that ability to say okay let's turn towards our

00:47:46.460 breath let's turn towards the fire let's turn towards sacred you know ancestors who are here

00:47:52.640 and that is such a gift in the midst of what we're in. To me the most academic you know learning

00:47:58.960 approach you can take is to be open to the idea of possibility that's why it's so shocking to me

00:48:05.600 when I, when I encounter people who think that these are opposites.

00:48:13.080 We're learning all the time. We're learning new and old modes of thinking and, and we're

00:48:18.820 discovering things and then we're discovering, oh, maybe, you know, dinosaurs had feathers and

00:48:23.300 not scales. Like we're just constantly having to be open to the possibilities. So to me, it's the

00:48:29.880 most, it's the most, you know, school-ish thing in the world to just be open to the idea that

00:48:36.000 we don't know everything. I know. And I think part of it is that there are paradigms that are guiding

00:48:42.000 the system that, you know, one thing that comes up as you're sharing that is when I was at Portland

00:48:48.740 State University, I was studying clinical mental health counseling, and I was also studying

00:48:53.300 interpersonal neurobiology and it's a neuroimaging based research practice that is very

00:49:00.640 interdisciplinary and one thing that I noticed is that because they're attempting to explore

00:49:06.040 other paradigms that are not about mechanistic separation and binary thinking that are more

00:49:11.140 about systems and interconnection that they were relegated to the quote-unquote woo which you know

00:49:17.160 and they weren't using that in a positive way they were you know relegating it to a place where

00:49:22.180 because it wasn't fitting into the mechanistic system of thinking, it was seen as not valid,

00:49:28.080 even if they were using like MRI machines and all that. And that to me was so interesting,

00:49:33.020 how paradigms can really block us from really understanding something and really seeing the

00:49:38.560 complexity of life. And I think about that so much because there's so much that we don't

00:49:43.460 understand because of this myopic kind of paradigm that we've all been forced to experience. And

00:49:49.200 I think witchcraft and magic and art they're all possible realms and you know mystical practices

00:49:55.360 wisdom traditions have all asked us to look at the world in that way in in a systems in a relational

00:50:02.040 way and I think that's like where you know they're also a threat to the system too right and that's

00:50:07.840 why they get demeaned and devalued exactly I mean colonialism has attempted to erase thousands and

00:50:15.400 thousands and thousands and thousands of years of accumulated knowledge but these ancestors

00:50:20.400 however you interpret that word are finding ways to remind us or to tell us like they didn't put

00:50:28.540 in any books and they tried to kill everyone who knew how to do this but I'm sending you this

00:50:32.420 information in a dream or in a vision or in a download thought that seemed to have come from

00:50:39.660 nowhere. My background, I studied expressive art therapy. And while I'm not practicing as an

00:50:46.460 expressive arts therapist, it definitely all of what I learned plays a big part in my magic and

00:50:54.020 in my art. So I love getting to hear you talk whenever, wherever. Thank you so much. And I'm

00:50:59.680 so glad you're here. And I think expressive arts is such a powerful modality. And just in the same

00:51:04.000 way that if you're an artist and you're not practicing, you're always an artist, you're

00:51:07.300 always doing that work and we just go through different cycles you know we'll make sure that

00:51:12.940 you can see rachel's art is quite quite yeah i would love to see yeah we'll make sure you get

00:51:20.240 to see because it's just nice to see the weaving you know the weaving in practice and the weaving

00:51:25.740 in reality so i couldn't go ahead but that's okay i was gonna say i'm loving uh the god's

00:51:31.540 eyes behind you edgar so thank you so much yes yes i i've been connecting so much with them and

00:51:40.000 really you know we talked about portals i think god's eyes are portals too and um i really loved

00:51:47.060 what you know we've been talking about here just the way that ancestors come through those portals

00:51:52.580 and find ways and you know i think that's also why many of us are being called to step into these

00:51:58.020 roles is our ancestors are doing that work they're really guiding us and it's it's something that

00:52:04.500 really makes me believe in possibility beyond this system is that there are things that cannot

00:52:10.820 be destroyed as much as you try to as much as you try to suppress and kill and erase there are there

00:52:18.320 are ways that this knowledge this wisdom this tradition will continue and yes it will transform

00:52:24.520 and mutate and become different practices and it will still be connected to that sacred lineage

00:52:30.380 and and I think that's what makes me believe in in in a world beyond this one is that I know

00:52:38.040 I've witnessed through my own life and through other people's lives that they're yeah there's

00:52:42.740 something so powerful that we are all tapping into and being guided by and I think that's

00:52:48.840 it's such a gift to be a part of that and to be able to like hold space and meet other people

00:52:54.120 who are also validating that i think validation is so needed especially when the rest of the world

00:52:58.700 is trying to tell you that what you're doing is foolish or doesn't make sense you know it's we're

00:53:03.880 all holding that vision together yeah we're holding up that mirror for each other of what's 0.71

00:53:08.880 inside of us and the natural world is holding it up around us too and our ancestors are holding it

00:53:13.660 up around us i'll tell you this story so i was hiking near here you know walls of snow trees

00:53:19.820 covered in snow snowy snowy day just all snow all the time and I stopped by this one beach tree so

00:53:28.860 I think it's a beach it it keeps its leaves they die but they stay on it and so they become these

00:53:34.720 like rattles in the woods so I stopped by this beach and it's like rattling and talking sort of

00:53:40.380 having a moment and I ask it you know is there anything that I need to hear right now it's sort

00:53:47.560 just gently rattling it's quiet nothing's coming through and sort of nod and like turn to walk

00:53:55.500 away and then I notice on this tree branch covered in snow we've had snow for like five months

00:54:02.920 there is one perfect dandelion seed with the dandelion white dandelion floof like sitting

00:54:12.020 on the snow it's not possible there are no dandelions everything is covered in snow as far

00:54:20.140 as the eye can see where has it been has it been in the air for six months like how

00:54:24.800 where has it been you know and I was like how odd how weird how beautiful like took a picture 0.91

00:54:30.780 walked 10 steps and was like oh shit that was the the message I got it you know

00:54:36.180 I don't always get it right away but but it was there you know and so I'll close with this last 0.78

00:54:43.880 question for you we did this last time maybe you'll remember and your answer to this question

00:54:50.360 last time ended up on the last page of our book so I don't know if we've adequately thanked you

00:54:55.360 for the gift that you gave us then and that you've given all our readers since but thank you for the

00:55:00.820 gift of that spell of grounding and protection so same question is there a ritual that's helping

00:55:08.200 you right now something that you feel like you could share with our listeners yeah oh my gosh

00:55:14.960 I really have been leaning into play and um the magic of play and when I say that I mean that

00:55:26.580 you know, I have been very process oriented when it comes to my art making. And I think that right

00:55:34.580 now I've really been allowing myself to be led by my hands and be led by the colors that feel

00:55:41.760 exciting and the shapes that feel joyful. And so I feel like I'm returning back to like a part of

00:55:52.660 my art practice that I feel like I was shamed for when I was really young because I'm doing a lot of

00:55:58.220 drawing and painting and those were things that like I was really like shamed for as a young

00:56:02.280 as a kid and realizing how much I love to draw and paint and I'm doing it digitally of course

00:56:07.680 since I do so much work digitally but I've been really sitting with like how healing it is to play

00:56:16.500 and to channel through play and yeah so I really just want to invite people to you know even if

00:56:24.820 it's for 30 minutes to craft a place for you to play and to not have as much as possible to not

00:56:32.000 have goals but just to really open up that space for your hands to really lead you to your body

00:56:38.620 to lead you to guide you and just to you know as that story that you just shared around the floof

00:56:45.680 on top of the snow, like to be surprised in those moments where you realize something comes through

00:56:50.840 that could not have come through through the maybe more linear or organized process, you know,

00:56:57.920 and yeah, so I've just been really witnessing that, the possibility that comes through,

00:57:03.720 and also how much you can become a vessel for your ancestors to speak, and I think also connected to

00:57:09.520 that, I've been really witnessing how much when we come together here, like we are today in community,

00:57:15.080 we also become vessels. And I really do feel our ancestors speaking through us and what we've been

00:57:20.680 sharing. And that's something I love about podcasts, both as a listener and as a speaker

00:57:27.140 in podcasts, is that I really do get moved into an altered state where I sometimes forget what

00:57:32.900 I'm saying and sometimes feel like there's a part of me that comes up that feels like it needs to

00:57:38.720 have things to say, or I need to know what I'm going to say. And I've really learned to also

00:57:46.040 let my voice lead and let the words emerge. And that's also been profound to me. And it really

00:57:56.900 does make me believe that we are conduits and that we are connected to something so much deeper than

00:58:03.640 us that can allow us to rest a little bit, allow us to open up space a bit so that we don't have

00:58:09.260 to feel so much pressure around ourselves. And that's been so healing too, to not feel like I

00:58:15.780 have to be an expert, not feel like I have to know what I'm going to say and just really show up and

00:58:21.440 be present with people and to tap into that beautiful collective nervous system that we're

00:58:26.640 all holding here today and knowing that that's going to support that process of channeling.

00:58:32.000 and so yeah knowing that channeling is is a collective thing and that we're always in

00:58:39.620 collaboration and so even if you're at home by yourself coloring you're in relationship

00:58:45.820 you're in collaboration thank you for that I feel that so deeply thank you for being here

00:58:55.320 thank you for your time and your generosity and your work I hope that you feel us our web

00:59:01.920 loving you and supporting you and easing tensions around you sending love to the algorithms that

00:59:09.760 have ensnared some of us you know we're sending care to those we're sending love to those we're

00:59:15.740 calling those people back into the circles of care we're sending love to each other in our tired eyes

00:59:22.900 you know we're sending love we really are our chronic illnesses and our chronic anxieties

00:59:29.980 or sending light to all those things

00:59:32.320 and play to all our hands

00:59:34.540 and just so much

00:59:36.640 thanks we can resurrect care

00:59:38.540 yes we're doing it we're doing it

00:59:40.600 we're doing it right now

00:59:42.940 we're doing it

00:59:44.720 now yes

00:59:45.860 we're doing it 1.00

00:59:47.800 you must be a witch 0.97

00:59:52.200 here are a couple tiny quick 0.75

00:59:56.500 free things that you could

00:59:58.620 do right now to help the missing witches project stay afloat and grow the old rate review and

01:00:06.480 subscribe to this podcast on apple or wherever you listen honestly truly it helps so much

01:00:13.260 and even better share it with a friend share it with someone who might love it 0.99

01:00:19.520 let's weave this web together and gather all our kids thanks and bless a fucking wee 1.00

01:00:28.620 You 1.00

Missing Witches - April 28, 2022

WF Edgar Fabián Frías： I'm Hopeful For The Magic We Are All Weaving...We Are Transforming Hierarchies

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