Missing Witches - Mabon 2020 with Sandra Huber： The Knowledge Game

00:00:00.000 Hello to the Missing Witches Coven. It's your Auntie Amy. I want to welcome you to Mabon,

00:00:07.280 to Autumn, and to Season 4 of the Missing Witches Podcast. 1.00

00:00:13.440 You aren't being a proper woman, therefore you must be a witch. 1.00

00:00:16.260 Be a witch. Be a witch. Be a witch. Be a witch. Be a witch. Be a witch. Be a witch. 1.00

00:00:19.800 You must be a witch. 1.00

00:00:21.020 Happy Mabon, lovely. It's on this dark moment where we actually get to meet and find each 0.82

00:00:26.480 other finally and sort of person and digital person happy equinox it's that point where light

00:00:33.440 and dark are in equal balance and we always love these days because it makes me feel a little more

00:00:38.360 imbalanced in my own head in crazy times when i know that the earth is an imbalance of dark and

00:00:44.440 light yeah i always feel a little bit electric at like maybe a week before the equinox like when

00:00:50.360 the tides change like them between the seasons i always feel a little bit like yes electricity

00:01:00.340 so sandra is here with us risa and i are chatting with sandra sandra can you introduce yourself to

00:01:06.680 our listeners all right um i'll try my best i'm sandra um well what do i say um i have a cat

00:01:15.520 named Lenore. I live in Montreal. I'm doing a PhD at Concordia University where I look at

00:01:26.160 witchcraft and I look at specifically the tools that witches use and also the techniques. So the

00:01:34.360 tools and techniques of witches and how that sort of pertains, how that relates to knowledge making

00:01:42.160 and also knowledge I'm making um and I teach as well so I teach in anthropology I've taught in

00:01:49.040 religion um in English and yeah and I I get up to some witchery as well every day I love that

00:02:00.300 we're talking about being at this like midpoint and middle point and your work is so much for me

00:02:07.540 at this incredible meeting point like your work is art and it's academia and like like research

00:02:15.680 and then it's also sort of crafting with the world like for our listeners who maybe think about

00:02:21.900 um what they could bring to academia you know even though they may be from strange witchy

00:02:29.780 events and backgrounds do you have advice about how art stories from your life about how that

00:02:35.640 sort of in-betweenness managed to work its way out for you you're a doctor you're a professor of

00:02:40.900 witches it's crazy well professor writing writing my thesis it's kind of crazy it's like a field

00:02:48.940 where like nobody's really in this field or if they are they're like you know a 60 year old

00:02:53.960 anthropologist who is looking at sort of uh witchcraft as something that may have happened

00:03:00.140 one so that some people do um but there's not a lot of people who are sort of within witchcraft

00:03:06.320 and looking at it from the inside as a living and breathing phenomenon um and so I'm interested in

00:03:13.060 that I'm not sure how I was how I was drawn here I'm sort of just like I think I've always been

00:03:18.360 sort of a nerdy witch um so connecting these crafts sort of came naturally to me and I never

00:03:26.960 actually thought that I would do that I never really thought these two worlds would meet

00:03:31.120 um and then just as I sort of continued um just sort of continued on my academic path it felt

00:03:39.700 inauthentic not to combine uh witchcraft in sort of knowledge making because it's such an important

00:03:47.220 form of knowledge as you know that has been um really left out of institutional knowledge

00:03:54.000 and i think that on some level this is a good thing i don't think that witches really want

00:04:00.940 to be institutionalized i don't think that witches are dying to get into the academy

00:04:04.580 but on another level i think that this is um something that could be looked at a little bit

00:04:11.460 closer so how can the knowledges of witches be worked into sort of philosophy or

00:04:18.420 um and how can the techniques of witches like such as you know spell crafting even just like

00:04:27.460 the act of um making knots to cast a spell like what does that say about knowledge and knowledge

00:04:35.160 making what does that say about yeah like you were saying about craft in the world also i have

00:04:40.800 almost all of my personal planets in my sixth house which is really like the house of work

00:04:47.100 the house of craft. So for me, I think those things sort of just like alchemically sort of

00:04:53.860 poured out at me at a certain time in my life. And I just kind of stopped wanting to contain

00:05:01.540 things separately. And I'm just trying to combine as best I can and see what happens at the end of

00:05:07.480 it. And that's one of the things that's so beautiful about Equinox to me is that, yes,

00:05:13.560 it's this balance of light and dark but it's not like turning on a light switch or turning off a

00:05:18.840 light switch it's very much a dimmer you know and so that's what you're doing is like blending this

00:05:23.860 one aspect into another totally yeah so like blending and also trying to like retrieve and

00:05:30.120 also trying to um i think there's well as we all know and as you also write about um in your book

00:05:37.380 there's so much um you know these knowledge making systems that came out of the enlightenment and

00:05:42.740 that are geared towards the rational have done so much harm to people you know people who are

00:05:48.360 witches or who were called witches accused of being witches um and so there's there's like a

00:05:54.760 lot of healing work to be done with that i think and there's sort of so much power in that right

00:06:01.000 and sort of bringing these knowledges of our ancestors pre-colonial knowledges um back into

00:06:08.960 the fray like back into sort of the light of day without like it's also a tricky dance I have to

00:06:16.060 say it's sort of a delicate dance because we don't want to give away all our secrets to the enemies

00:06:20.800 but yeah but like you said yeah exactly like we want to create sort of like a dimmer effect maybe

00:06:28.400 like which is also like a way of balancing the light and the darkness and sort of seeing what

00:06:33.700 can be created out of that that wasn't there before. So something new that comes to light

00:06:40.680 and also recognizing that rational knowledge is not the be all end all, that there are so many

00:06:49.940 other ways of knowing and unknowing in the world that are so much more interesting and so much

00:06:54.740 more in balance with the world itself and the people in it. I was just thinking it's so

00:07:00.780 validating to hear you say that Sandra and and um as our listeners may have picked up on Sandra as

00:07:07.620 like one of three people in the world who has read our book which is now available for pre-order

00:07:12.040 but we were sort of terrified releasing it to people after these sort of months of working on

00:07:17.960 these ideas quietly up in the woods you know on our own um I wonder how how you feel when you

00:07:26.100 have to present these ideas or you get to to students how do they how do they react when you

00:07:33.080 give them this sort of sense yeah that's such a good question because I think like people react

00:07:39.280 in such different ways but what I have noticed is that um you know the students that do react

00:07:44.740 positively and do take to it are so hungry for this they're so ready for it like especially

00:07:50.260 the students who you know come from different backgrounds or are queer or um you know when they

00:07:59.300 hear someone stand in front of a room and talk about witchcraft and give them readings like

00:08:03.880 as you know because I shared one of my syllabi with you that I put like your podcast on on my

00:08:09.860 syllabus and people just eat it up really like the students love it um I think that there's there's a

00:08:17.380 real there's such a real want for this kind of knowledge in our world right now because our

00:08:22.740 world is hurting like look all around us like the pandemic the wildfires um you know mother earth

00:08:31.220 is crying out she's pissed off um and I think people feel that and I think also since my

00:08:39.280 students you know they're like 19 20 um I think they've grown up a lot with that and so a lot of

00:08:46.400 them are really hungry for these knowledges coming back into play and that they can really

00:08:50.780 engage with you know in academia and not just like especially in the course on anthropology 0.74

00:08:56.300 like anthropology is full of like these old white men who have you know traveled into places they 0.95

00:09:01.520 view as exotic and excavated the knowledge um and completely appropriated and misrepresented

00:09:08.140 um the people who who live inside that knowledge so i think especially in that context it was so

00:09:16.360 important to, to do that. And of course, there are the students that aren't there for it. Of

00:09:21.060 course, of course, there are. But I'm just not speaking to those students. I'm speaking to the

00:09:28.340 students who, who, you know, who like want something different, who wants like, they want

00:09:34.920 the knowledge of our grandmothers. And that's such a beautiful source of knowledge to get to

00:09:41.200 interact with in academia. And that actually sort of brings back around to something that

00:09:48.080 I wanted to say earlier, which is that you talked about intuition and the over-rationality that

00:09:55.600 we've come to laud as the only way. And I think that that's a part of misogyny too. So we talk

00:10:03.060 about women's intuition. We talk about, like you were saying, grandmothers, old wives tales.

00:10:08.280 and all of this language has like kind of a dismissive nature to it so i really once again

00:10:14.480 like i find that when you go into the ivory towers of the academy it's a way of legitimizing

00:10:19.460 things beyond a quote-unquote old wives tale absolutely yes and i think like um there's a

00:10:28.000 scholar or a philosopher quite a famous philosopher named isabel stangas who's a

00:10:33.480 French philosopher and she writes about witches and has been doing so since the 90s and this is

00:10:39.000 exactly what she talks about exactly what you said so these you know um the type of knowledge

00:10:45.860 that witches make will be called like superstitious or old wives tales it's really like misogynist

00:10:51.640 harmful language um and she talks about how it's so important for us like especially as scholars

00:10:58.320 um and she uses a line from from starhawk it's so important for us to smell the smoke in our

00:11:04.600 nostrils sort of of of the burned and the burning witches of history and really to to feel that

00:11:12.120 like as a phenomenal presence and to realize the harm that's been done um through sort of

00:11:18.700 philosophical knowledge to these other forms of knowledge making um where you know scholars

00:11:24.580 like academics would have sided with the witch hunters would have sided with the with the people

00:11:30.220 burning witches so to actually go on to that team as a witch and um as someone who speaks

00:11:38.420 about witchcraft is incredibly powerful um and sort of we can i don't know we can try to reclaim

00:11:46.980 these knowledges in a way um for the academy but also just for for ourselves and to see what

00:11:54.280 what new things can happen but yeah there's also i i also have a problem with um

00:12:00.520 you know these these monikers like wives tales or the grandmothers is something that's less

00:12:07.680 powerful like i think it's hugely powerful i love the phrase wives tales

00:12:12.060 there's something hugely powerful in that like the tales of like um yeah it sort of like reminds

00:12:22.020 me of like spiders spinning webs or something it's like those kinds of tales are the tales that

00:12:27.160 I find fascinating and interesting and juicy not the tales of like the white men in like wigs

00:12:33.520 standing in a room like you know talking civilly to each other but the tales that are embodied and

00:12:40.380 that are lived and that are full of experience and full of like scents and sounds and songs

00:12:46.460 Like, those are the kinds of tales that I love to see and that I love to sort of try to find more of and excavate.

00:12:55.980 It's funny that you used the word excavation.

00:12:58.280 I was just working on an episode for the podcast about Margaret Murray.

00:13:02.640 Oh, excellent.

00:13:04.160 Fun.

00:13:05.020 So fun.

00:13:06.260 Yeah.

00:13:07.860 Oh, my goodness.

00:13:09.080 It's so fascinating.

00:13:10.280 So fun.

00:13:12.360 Oh, yeah.

00:13:13.200 She's so fascinating.

00:13:14.500 I'm so into her.

00:13:16.460 I'm so into this idea that, like, well, talk about someone who was so resoundingly, disdainfully discredited, you know.

00:13:24.880 Totally.

00:13:25.700 Yes.

00:13:27.380 Yeah.

00:13:28.760 Yeah.

00:13:29.660 And then you look at her alongside her, like, male peers writing about the same things and the respect with which their ideas were given.

00:13:36.880 And it's really so blatant.

00:13:40.860 And it's not just misogynist, you know.

00:13:45.020 it's, it's classist and racist to this, this stance towards other knowledge. So it's, it's

00:13:51.560 pretty, it's pretty important work that you're doing, you know, and that I feel like we're a

00:13:56.140 part of this movement of, of people doing being like, there's just, there's other kinds of

00:14:00.400 information and knowledge out there in, in animal world, in the natural world, and in other races

00:14:07.520 and classes and marginalized genders and identities. And if we don't fight for a space for

00:14:11.280 that in every arena then we're not going to win whatever winning looks like we're not going to

00:14:19.080 survive and heal yeah exactly we're not going to survive I think like that I think it's that

00:14:25.680 I think it's that urgent I think it's it's that urgent we're not going to survive if we don't

00:14:32.240 if we don't get in touch with these other forms of knowledge that have been

00:14:36.020 evaded and erased and and it's ongoing right like the persecution of witches of course is

00:14:41.160 ongoing just as the persecution of like um academics that may not fit the mold like in

00:14:47.780 the case of margaret murray is ongoing um so these things are i don't know these things are

00:14:53.820 playing out today and yeah it's important and that's what i also love about your guys's podcast

00:14:59.960 is that you're um you really like tackle these issues in such like a beautiful multivalent way

00:15:07.880 like you have so much like um perspective on these issues and you're not afraid to like

00:15:13.800 go into some of the more controversial figures like um oh what was i listening to that

00:15:19.520 you did an episode on uh madame blavatsky right oh yeah yeah so it's like this is someone who's

00:15:29.400 sort of been she's like she's she's like an incredibly um controversial figure and you

00:15:35.160 sort of go there like I love that I love that you go into these places and research it and really

00:15:40.060 try to figure out what these people were up to it's so important and so exciting yeah I mean

00:15:46.020 that's what's so so kind of ironic about academia to me is that it seems like so willfully incomplete

00:15:53.640 and as and for a space that's supposed to be like learning centered it I don't know how else to

00:16:00.520 describe it other than willfully incomplete like reese and i sort of started this project because

00:16:06.180 we had to go looking because the witches were missing yes and i love this um i love this idea

00:16:12.700 of the search like especially in virgo season um i was thinking about searching the other day and

00:16:19.140 there's you know like when you think about like what uh what virgo is and what the fall is it's

00:16:25.120 like Demeter is searching for Persephone right she goes into the underworld she searches or if

00:16:30.880 you look at the hermit card which is astrologically assigned to Virgo it's also someone searching

00:16:37.180 with this lantern so I love that you have this focus on like you're searching for something

00:16:43.380 that you're you're not quite sure what you're going to find and it's this curiosity that keeps

00:16:47.840 you going and I think that's what the knowledge game is about it's about the search whereas so

00:16:53.720 many scholars like you were saying there's so many academics my poor peers

00:16:58.680 recently i did our time in the academy as well so there are peers now we love you we love you

00:17:06.220 we know you we're talking about those other academics those other academics yeah but it's

00:17:15.100 like academics who aren't searching right the academics who already know that what they want

00:17:19.740 to find um and who already know the answer to all the boring questions they're gonna ask

00:17:25.400 though that's not that's not exciting the exciting thing about even um you know being in a university

00:17:33.680 environment like whether teaching or learning uh is about the searching and is about like really

00:17:39.040 this curiosity of like going into the dark spaces like going down the dark stairs with the lantern

00:17:45.260 and seeing what's there um you know especially as we're in in this sort of like seam of time

00:17:52.720 where we're going from the light into the darkness um and all the things that we don't know we'll

00:17:58.620 find there all the little shiny things that are waiting for us to find them that's what sort of

00:18:04.260 keeps me going and keeps me um excited about i don't know i always think of the amanda yates

00:18:14.280 Garcia quote and maybe I'm misquoting a little bit but um in in our travels through the underworld

00:18:20.220 which has become map makers Risa I know that's one of your favorite quotes from initiated too

00:18:26.040 yes yeah I think that's a good a good um spark or something for me and maybe for our listeners

00:18:37.200 a ritual or a little practice or a challenge or something we can wrap ourselves around for this

00:18:46.020 map bond you know we like to take inspiration from our guests and Amy and I sometimes we'll

00:18:52.740 just make one up with each other as we're talking so here's here's the one that came to mind and if

00:18:58.780 you guys have other ones that come to mind for this map bond for our listeners then maybe we

00:19:03.100 can share them but mine is go for um go for a sacred walk at night go for a walk where you

00:19:12.300 don't know where you're going um take a light if you like take a little flashlight or or a candle

00:19:18.920 and some matches and when you find somewhere alone you can light it or or go and don't take

00:19:24.560 a light and and follow the light that's out there there's there's stars and um there's

00:19:31.040 lanterns on hills and just enjoy that sort of rhythm and gait that you find and remember that

00:19:37.740 you're just a body searching you just you're just a wave you're just a bunch of particles

00:19:43.320 you're just a little bit of light looking for other light you know try to connect with that

00:19:48.000 during this dark time maybe that's so beautiful that's so beautiful

00:19:53.000 i love that also like connected to map making and to what um amanda to the quote that by amanda

00:20:02.540 garcia where you could actually like involved in that ritual you could actually say get a map in

00:20:09.280 front of you like of montreal and close your eyes and put your finger on a spot and sort of decide

00:20:15.260 that if you go there and search in that spot you're going to find a treasure so it could be

00:20:19.960 like running the night walk with like sort of hunting for some kind of treasure that you're

00:20:25.440 not quite sure uh you will find and then also kind of discovering something different or yeah

00:20:33.500 or if you're in the country or wherever i'm not sure where you guys are you're outside of montreal

00:20:37.940 but wherever you are out there you are yes wherever you are get a map yeah i mean between

00:20:45.320 Between what you're saying, Risa, and what you're saying, Sandra, I'm like having this vision of a new neighborhood or a dark place or just some kind of unknown being like a box that you dig up that was someone else's time capsule or a kid who like put some toys in a box and buried it.

00:21:03.440 But when you dig up the box and you don't know what's in it, it's almost more thrilling than when you open it and discover the contents.

00:21:09.520 That's kind of the feeling that I'm having listening to you talk right now.

00:21:13.180 Totally. And decide that you're going to find a treasure.

00:21:16.720 Like no matter where you go, you're going to find some sort of treasure there.

00:21:19.860 Like whether that treasure is in the form of like a sound or a smell or maybe like a box that you find or something.

00:21:27.640 A coffee shop you didn't know about.

00:21:29.860 Exactly.

00:21:30.680 Yeah. A sign that resonates with a memory you have that you needed to be reminded of.

00:21:37.740 Yeah. I love that.

00:21:39.780 Yeah. I like that you said a sound, Sandra.

00:21:41.900 i like i uh i like to take omen cues from like when cars drive by with loud music i always to

00:21:48.200 take it if i recognize the song i always like to take it as an omen of some kind or another

00:21:53.120 i love that you know i actually had that as one of my assignments for the anthropology students

00:21:58.180 i had them um go around for a whole day and listen like just listen to what's in their atmosphere and

00:22:04.540 then write an ethnography of like whatever sounds they were hearing um and the most interesting

00:22:11.460 things were coming out of them and then one student said that actually he didn't go anywhere

00:22:15.900 he just listened to the sound of silence in his own space which was also kind of a beautiful

00:22:21.920 ethnography of silence in a way like just these um these little treasures that we're surrounded

00:22:29.200 by all the time that we might not see as significant we might not see as full of beauty

00:22:35.980 and wisdom yeah that's beautiful i'll take that with me into this uh dark edge of this

00:22:43.740 do you have any um do you have any uh i we we just kind of did it but if you if you have another

00:22:54.300 one to share i love ending ending these interview episodes or approaching the end with um maybe a

00:23:01.620 a spell or a practice that you have something that you find healing or inspiring I believe

00:23:09.100 some of your artistic practice is around automatic writing so if you wanted to share

00:23:13.240 something related to that I mean I yeah I think um I really like this these sort of threads we've

00:23:21.960 been pulling out that relate um sound to searching and I think that automatic writing is such a

00:23:31.400 a simple practice of attuning that everyone can do and that really helps you get in touch with

00:23:37.440 like because often when we're thinking of spell making we're so focused on a product that we want

00:23:42.880 but sometimes what happens with that is that our will is not aligned with our actual feeling in

00:23:48.920 our body with our actual sensations and therefore our spells are not going to work

00:23:53.420 so even something like maybe i wouldn't suggest a spell but like a pre-spell

00:23:59.280 to like attune yourself like just go into whatever space you're in get a little piece of paper a pen

00:24:08.960 and just listen to what's happening and just let let words come onto a page

00:24:15.300 one thing that I'll do sometimes is I'll sort of cover my floor with different pages

00:24:21.780 and each page has a question written on it and then I'll turn that question over and then while

00:24:29.000 I'm doing automatic writing I'm writing on all the different pages and then at the end when I

00:24:34.820 turn it over I can see what the question was and what the answer was on that page and it's sort of

00:24:40.340 like I sound convoluted no that was me gasping I was like because I I love writing the question

00:24:51.360 so you're writing down the question then you're flipping the page over so you and maybe mix them

00:24:55.260 up a bit so you don't know what question you're answering mix them up yeah and sit in the middle

00:25:01.460 of them on a just a cushion so you're surrounded by your papers and whatever papers you want um

00:25:08.680 sit in the middle on a cushion you know light a candle light some incense sort of attune with

00:25:13.320 yourself if you have spirits that you work with or guides you can invite them to help you um or you

00:25:19.760 can just do it uh purely just by emptying your mind and then just start the automatic writing

00:25:28.060 and then go around and as you like really like get embodied like get up walk around like put your

00:25:34.840 arms out like sensors like feel your atmosphere and then just walk towards the pages and start

00:25:40.300 writing or drawing um whatever comes out of your body and then at the end of it you have this sort

00:25:46.340 of collection of like quote unquote answers um that may have been different than what you would

00:25:53.540 expect and this will help you to align with I think with your intentions and um and whatever

00:26:00.600 else you want to do with that maybe you could turn that into a spell or maybe that would help

00:26:04.920 you better formulate like what what you want your spell to be like or who knows maybe it will just

00:26:11.180 get some more interesting questions in your head but that's a fun sort of simple exercise to do

00:26:16.500 I love that because it makes me think also of like tarot cards about how sometimes we just need to

00:26:22.860 make an abstraction of our thought or question and put it outside and into another framework

00:26:29.500 in order to get a different kind of answer like I think abstraction is probably the best

00:26:33.500 word that I'm looking for right now just sort of taking everything out of context mixing it around

00:26:38.500 and then looking at something in a different way so yeah that exercise really made me think of like

00:26:42.740 a tarot reading in a way yeah totally yes and you could also do that for somebody else as well like

00:26:48.800 you could get together with a friend and do that for each other as well oh my god you could trade

00:26:54.060 questions party game everybody I'm definitely going to try this exercise Risa Risa I would

00:27:04.460 I would love to see what May, your daughter, might draw on the back of a question

00:27:08.920 without knowing what the question is.

00:27:11.280 Oh my gosh, how fun. 1.00

00:27:13.580 She mostly likes to draw bugs.

00:27:15.620 Is that helpful?

00:27:16.560 Yes.

00:27:19.480 You'll have a little collection of insects by the end of it and the questions.

00:27:23.980 Yeah.

00:27:24.800 It's incredible.

00:27:25.300 She draws bugs and she slips notes under my door.

00:27:28.720 So I have a pile of scraps of paper that she slipped under my door when I'm working.

00:27:33.660 that are all like profound magical to me that is so sweet yeah I have one more question for you

00:27:43.180 Sandra if you don't mind and it's kind of a backwards question because again um we we make

00:27:48.880 the podcast and then we sort of live in a vacuum after that so I'm wondering did your students have

00:27:53.300 any questions about it that you kind of want to relay to us for a different kind of answer

00:27:58.600 I think they didn't have questions too much as just like they were engaging with the material

00:28:04.300 um so yeah I think that they were sort of engaging with the stories that you were telling

00:28:14.000 um more than really asking questions specifically about it because I would we were collocating them

00:28:21.060 with readings and then it would just add another layer of sort of embodied knowledge to what we

00:28:27.040 were reading um but yeah but I like they there were a few students I think I wrote you who

00:28:33.580 like were such hardcore fans they were like I told them that you were coming into our class

00:28:39.600 and they were just like um they're actually it's so sweet they're like planning on like

00:28:44.960 you know we're gonna like get like little chairs and then they'd like bring like some people were

00:28:49.620 gonna like bring some food and some people some flowers and have like a whole thing for you guys

00:28:54.040 which I would still love to do for you in the future but really it's like yeah because you

00:29:00.340 like you said you're making this podcast and you may not know the effect that it has but I know that

00:29:05.320 you know like when I saw students interacting with it and like I myself just from listening

00:29:11.920 to you guys it's such a gift that you uh that you are bringing into the world like truly

00:29:17.780 it's such a beautiful um homage to like the ancestors of the witches so I think there was

00:29:26.600 more just like a feeling of like awe and like thankfulness gratitude but had you been there

00:29:32.640 I'm sure they would have that yeah for our listeners who who might be a bit confused um we

00:29:39.120 we were set to go into Sandra's class and you know have a talk with her students and then that was

00:29:44.600 hashtag ruined by covid but as we say nothing is nothing is canceled only postponed postponed

00:29:52.220 oh my god it's such a different world it's so such a creepy world right now and i think we're

00:29:59.340 going back into it like i'm just like terrified that we're going to be on lockdown again soon

00:30:04.240 um but yes let's not think of that well we can take our our um our equinox today this evening

00:30:15.860 to try and snatch some balance from the chaos of our environments totally and have you like

00:30:23.140 developed any um i was wondering have you developed any rituals that are specific to

00:30:27.900 to these times like to pandemic times like little things that you found that help you

00:30:33.000 get through this time um for me i and i i wonder if amy you would say something similar but

00:30:40.600 um it's really important to keep my space

00:30:45.740 beautiful and like to take the time to do tiny small um cleaning or dusting like to take one

00:30:56.420 plate on my desk and go over every single stone on it with my daughter and talk to her about every

00:31:05.280 little trinket and why it's there and dust each piece and I don't know I find I need the meditation

00:31:13.200 of small things right now and then I also need the meditation of very large work so I

00:31:23.900 I go back to you know writing or or working on basic income or advocating for these really large

00:31:32.880 scale webs of ideas of change you know so those are the sort of two perspectives for me and

00:31:40.260 I don't know do you feel like you Amy have I was at Amy's house this weekend and her house

00:31:46.880 is pristine so I feel like we're on the same page about that yeah I think I talked about this at

00:31:53.700 Lamas too how like my anxiety has and I'm super grateful for this because up to this point in my

00:32:00.060 life my anxiety has sort of manifested in paralysis um especially when it comes to a

00:32:05.740 sink full of dirty dishes but now I've like turned this corner where like washing dishes is like a

00:32:11.780 zen activity for me i just like i'm like constantly cleaning my house um which again i think is is

00:32:18.460 good like because we have control over so little you know but our homes are our temples and and i

00:32:24.020 feel like especially when you're freaking trapped in them that they should be as healthy of an

00:32:29.400 environment as possible but along those same lines like macro and micro risa i think you and i are

00:32:35.880 doing the same thing where it's like large ideas and large like how can i change the world but also

00:32:40.400 So I'm just like taking every moment that I can to focus on the breath, remind myself to breathe.

00:32:48.600 And Sandra, to address what you're saying, the ritualizing of it is to remember that the breath is a communication between you and the earth and the atmosphere and the divine.

00:33:01.520 you know from a very scientific and practical way you're you're putting out and taking in your

00:33:06.960 your very real particles you know which is especially important to consider at these times

00:33:12.760 but also on the metaphysical level of like it's a conversation

00:33:16.400 it's a conversation between you and Gaia or God or you know whatever you choose to um put your

00:33:25.840 put your faith in

00:33:27.640 I was going to say

00:33:31.500 sorry I was going to say that

00:33:33.540 Margaret Murray quote that Amy and I were talking

00:33:35.720 about a lot as the title

00:33:37.300 of that episode that will be coming out soon

00:33:39.400 is ringing in my head that

00:33:41.460 the divine that science

00:33:43.620 calls nature and religion calls God

00:33:45.920 that's in every breath

00:33:47.340 and for our listeners who are on the west coast

00:33:49.420 where breath is very painful

00:33:51.000 we're sending you our breath

00:33:53.880 and sending you the love

00:33:55.760 for the trees that are around you and just be safe guys i think that's so cool but like all

00:34:03.220 these like the pandemic is about breath the wildfires are about breath like there's something

00:34:08.960 so vital about just remembering the importance of breath like you were saying like it's such a very

00:34:15.040 simple act it's so like especially right now with all these um you know all these horrors that are

00:34:22.060 going on breath is so precious breath is such a treasure and it's also completely intuitive

00:34:30.520 you know you didn't need to be taught how to do it so for those people who think that intuition

00:34:37.380 is is nothing compared to formal education i would suggest once again focus on the breath

00:34:44.920 i love that i love that breath is like our ultimate like the first form of knowing in the

00:34:51.100 realm, which is being alive.

00:34:58.340 Yes, so maybe this Mabon be a turning point as it is for nature, but also for ourselves.

00:35:09.220 We're all amazing, but we could all do a little better every day. 0.52

00:35:12.860 Absolutely.

00:35:13.860 Yeah, thank you so much, Sandra, thank you for your time and your energy and your

00:35:21.040 wisdom and your contribution to our book oh my goodness thank you so much i cannot wait to hold

00:35:31.080 this book in my hand so excited thank you guys so much for having me and also just for being you

00:35:36.800 and for doing this podcast it's such an amazing resource yeah and we thank you sandra and we thank

00:35:43.540 our sponsor foxglove farm use offer code missing witches and our patrons on patreon for real like

00:35:50.100 you know recently i think i bought like four books for one of my episodes this season like

00:35:56.480 thank goodness for our patrons and our sponsor who are justifying my book and research

00:36:03.840 purchases yeah huge love to everyone who makes us feel that we're not alone in this uh this

00:36:12.380 strange quest in the dark thank you so much Sandra we love you and I love you listeners

00:36:22.280 me and my cat love you too I love you guys thank you so much we love your cat

00:36:28.060 happy Mabon everybody happy Mabon happy Mabon

00:36:42.380 You

Missing Witches - September 21, 2020

Mabon 2020 with Sandra Huber： The Knowledge Game

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