00:18:18.500We are not wrong. The expectations are the things that are wrong. Ivy, when I read that sentence, I believe disability is itself a form of witchcraft. I thought of Jasmine immediately. Jasmine, you wrote a piece for the Missing Witches zine called Witchcraft is an altar to neurodivergence.
00:18:42.500so speak about that or speak about anything that comes to mind with the listening that we've been
00:18:47.840doing just now careful you give someone with adhd the openness to talk
00:18:54.380go off and off and off and off and off no so i for myself um i've always associated the witch
00:19:09.580with the weirdo there's like the outsider weirdo um and and i don't have i don't share the religious
00:19:18.900trauma because i'm fortunate to have parents who could see beyond their own and not choose that for
00:19:24.380my sibling and myself so that was lucky but um the witch is is an outsider uh they have always0.63
00:19:37.740been an outsider and they are a disabled i would view the witch as a disabled archetype
00:19:46.860so the witch belongs to the disability community i'll put that out there um particularly if we0.62
00:19:54.500if we abide by the social model of disability and and the fall you know the cultural model
00:20:00.700the you know because the social model of disability states that there's a difference
00:20:06.680between impairment and disablement so an impairment is a physical sensory or mental
00:20:13.500difference or health condition and impairment is very real right but a disability to be disabled
00:20:20.300by your impairment is the disadvantage it's the act of disadvantaging or restricting or causing
00:20:26.940you know the cause when society fails to accommodate our differences when society has0.75
00:20:34.420chosen not to accommodate you because you are impaired that is when you are being disabled0.68
00:20:39.640and for me witchcraft my witchcraft is disabled by the sheer fact that I am a disabled person0.82
00:20:49.840and so my altar is an altar to neurodivergence and disablement it is an altar to queerness it
00:20:57.200is an altar to the you know my femininity it is also an altar to it's whatever you build and
00:21:04.660doesn't have to be i don't mean a physical altar but that the the act itself of calling yourself a0.54
00:21:12.080witch you are also disabled that is a disablement and you to understand that is also to understand
00:21:21.400ableism and to understand that when we take on the moniker of witch we're also taking on not0.95
00:21:29.240just a witchcraft practice but a life practice um of practicing anti-ableism uh the tenants
00:21:38.280of disability justice that sins invalid created uh i think aligns very well with with what we want
00:21:47.720not just for the missing witches coven but what many witches uh want to do currently in in our
00:21:53.720current society which is understand intersectionality practice anti-capitalist politic
00:22:01.960uh understand that there's a myth of independence and that in fact we are part of that
00:22:06.520interdependence if the mycelial network exists why do we think humans have to be independent right
00:22:11.880right um sustainability which in ivy's book there's a real push to like you don't have to
00:22:20.520do all the things you have to be able to sustain yourself this is a life practice you know um and
00:22:27.460then the idea of collective you know and so on and so forth into collective access and collective
00:22:31.880liberation like why are we choosing to be a witch if we are not actively taking a stand against0.97
00:22:38.860the current ableist racist sexist homophobic transphobic systems right the the witch is an0.91
00:22:48.420outsider by nature of the fact that she knows that she doesn't trust and or they don't trust0.98
00:22:55.260and they know that the system is wrong in some way um and so yeah it's it's that's where i come0.93
00:23:07.440from and understanding and why I, I, when I meet other disabled witches, it's a very validating
00:23:15.000experience and it's a very affirming experience. One thing that a lot of us in the coven talk
00:23:21.120about is the idea of witchy FOMO. So the fear of missing out and how part of, I think what we do
00:26:41.220If you are just dragging your shopping cart and there's a little ramp, then you have disability1.00
00:26:48.280justice to thank for that even though you are perfectly capable it makes it a little easier
00:26:53.560but ivy you brought up scented candles i personally accidentally lit my hair on fire in february i
00:27:02.140bring it up all the time when i show off my little electric candles um but there are multitude of
00:27:11.060reasons that for whatever this doesn't work for you and jenny there's a whole section in your book
00:27:17.460about like fire options for lack of a better term look at the moon the sun the stars these all hold
00:27:27.380the power of fire so i'm wondering and maybe i'll start with you ivy like what are some of your
00:27:33.560favorite substitutes for your personal life of you know what the witch book told me to do this but i
00:27:39.380did this instead yeah i mean i love the led candles those are awesome one of my favorite things to do
00:27:45.700is to thrift them because so many of them end up, it's so much cheaper and otherwise they would just
00:27:51.480be going to landfill. So that's a favorite. And then recently, one of my favorite cleansing
00:27:58.280options, I got a bell. I thrifted this bell and I ring it at the beginning of rituals. And I love
00:28:04.620that as a substitute. Yeah, those are a couple of the big ones. How about you, Jenny? Do you have
00:28:11.080any favorite subs yeah i have a lot actually a little sneak peek my next book is about uh living
00:28:18.960a simple daily practice of witchcraft and it's a month by month and so one of the things i have in
00:28:24.820there for winter that i've been doing and a couple people in the coven is if you get snow we use the
00:28:30.560snow instead of a candle and so we like you take your snow and you kind of pack it in you can also
00:28:36.560do an icicle if you like lucky enough to find one because they look like a taper candle and you can
00:28:41.060put herbs on there or not and you put your attention on it and as it melts that's instead
00:28:46.000of using a candle and then I just release it to the earth. I also use a bell. We have I live in
00:28:52.960the in Oregon and anybody in the PNW has smoke season. Well it seems like everybody does now
00:28:57.760and so we I got really into like okay what's an alternative because mugwort's my girl and that's
00:29:03.720usually who I go to for smoke cleansing. So it's like okay what can we do instead like of course
00:29:08.220there's simmer pots, but that isn't always good for everybody either. And so yeah, I got into
00:29:12.640bells. And just like really for cleansing to just water, like you can just hold some water.
00:29:20.380We make charged water, which is just, you know, put a jar of water in the full for 24 hours in a
00:29:26.460windowsill get sun and moon with the intention that it's going to be charged. And you can just
00:29:32.460even say a little prayer on there or not. And then you can use that like it doesn't.
00:29:36.020I am very much like I also run an online coven and they I'm always like go to the grocery store
00:29:42.120like make it simple use what you have here's some substitutes like that was I would grew up
00:29:47.860hugging that poverty line as a kid and that was the hardest part about the older witchcraft books
00:29:52.880is you need this and this herb and there was no substitution there's pre-internet I didn't get
00:29:58.780internet in my home until college because I had to pay for it and it was just you know like I was
00:30:04.300just stuck so a lot of times it's like well like what can i do like i couldn't go buy crystals i0.54
00:30:09.960couldn't you know go do that and so i've always been like a diy a thrifter a substitute girl and
00:30:15.700so i'm always like in our coven they'll be like this is the spell i don't have any of this and
00:30:20.600we're like brainstorming you can do this instead what do you have like and i and i want everyone
00:30:25.480to know that works even better i think because you put all that thought and intention into it
00:30:30.200Yes, I agree. And I'm so happy that you brought up this other accessibility idea, which is financial accessibility. Our coven shares that ethos with yours, that you don't need to buy anything.
00:30:45.260you can look into a mud puddle and you don't have to fly to the ocean you can look in your bathroom
00:30:53.900mirror you don't have to buy a crystal ball you know um and so again thank you for bringing
00:31:00.140financial accessibility to this conversation around accessibility um of course the reality
00:31:08.540of the situation is that um we we can't abide by toxic positivity we can't abide by spiritual
00:31:18.540bypassing ivy you describe shitty vibes and shitty days and i think in this disability community0.61
00:31:29.660and in the witch community in the human in the in the all living and non-living communities0.96
00:31:36.620There are shitty vibes and shitty days.1.00
00:31:40.340So I want to hear from all three of you.0.95
00:31:43.460How do you get through the shitty vibes and the shitty days?
00:31:48.740Yeah, I find that if I have the spoons on a shitty day, I pause what I'm doing and I make a little miniature altar, like a little just a little grab grab something from I have wicker baskets that I keep my witchcraft in.
00:32:05.240and so I go to the wicker baskets and I pull what's calling to me and if I really don't have
00:32:10.960sorry to interrupt but I also assume you probably thrifted those wicker baskets
00:32:15.360correct thrift stores are full of wicker baskets y'all I mean that's a whole other thing that I
00:32:23.400could talk about for a very long time thrifting your own magic like there's so much to be found
00:32:29.000secondhand and to save the money to save the earth all of that and but back to shitty days
00:32:35.400um so making an altar um one of my favorite one of my more recent um altar statues that i got is
00:32:46.440a saint jude statue um and he is the patron saint of lost causes so sometimes i like to do a little
00:32:53.660saint jude altar because it's just like and i'm pretty secular in my practice so it's a little
00:32:58.320more archetypal but it's just like you know what this is what i'm putting out of the universe i'm
00:33:04.180having a shitty day i'm exhausted and i'm calling out to any benevolent force that would understand
00:33:11.660that this is a shitty day and that's where we're at thank you yes um i do this so often when i am
00:33:19.060at the end of my rope and out of spoons and i think so many of us do this this is when if we
00:33:25.080have a practice that involves deity or spirit universe god whatever god etc whatever you want
00:33:35.640whatever words or ideas resonate with you but that's really when i go to my deity altar i have
00:33:43.000nothing left i'm a big fan of isis who is like a great mother figure and as someone who was not
00:33:51.320mothered in the way that i probably should have been um i turn to isis for that mothering just
00:33:57.720exactly what you're talking about with saint jude ivy um when i feel like a lost cause i can go and
00:34:05.160turn to my deity altar and say i don't have anything left please carry this for me now take
00:34:11.960this can you fix this for me because i really don't have the juice to fix anything today and
00:34:18.040there is something that is so like weight lifting about passing those fears anxieties not good
00:34:26.360enough lost cause-ness onto your spiritual altar jenny how do you get through shitty vibes and
00:34:36.040shitty days well i love what everybody else has already shared um a little background i was a
00:34:41.720classroom teacher. And then I had two, I had four pregnancies, I had two children. And after the
00:34:49.660second one, my health took such a dive. And of course, everyone was like, you're fine. Nothing's
00:34:56.560wrong. All your blood works great. It's like, great. Why do I feel like I'm dying? I found a
00:35:00.440health coach to work with. And I did this, like three year detox, like I didn't get to eat anything
00:35:06.340yummy or, you know, it was just like really intense, which made me really tired. And that
00:35:11.640really helped a little reset for me. But that all was a result of being a teacher and wanting to be
00:35:20.660the best teacher. I'm an eldest daughter of a single mother and a millennial. So people pleasing
00:35:26.360is my natural state of being. So I was like trying to be the best teacher. I was the one that was
00:35:33.160there for all my students. I was the one that queer students came out to. I was the one the
00:35:36.420students told abuse to. Like I was really there. And then I also wanted to be the absolute best
00:35:41.220mother because I also was not mothered. And so it's like, I had all this stuff. It was a perfect
00:35:45.760storm for my nervous system to be like, okay, you're done. And since then, since that big crash,
00:35:52.460I have learned to check in with my, what granddaughter Crow, who's been on the show a few
00:35:59.020times now has talked about the four bodies of existence. So something she's taught me.
00:36:04.820And so she's taught me like you check in with your mental body, your physical body,
00:36:09.540your emotional body, and your spiritual body. And what are they saying today? And a lot of times my
00:36:15.320physical body is saying, I would like to not do anything today. And so that's, I just am really,
00:36:22.320really working on, and this is probably going to be a lifetime journey of really listening
00:36:27.580to myself because I don't want to have the shitty days. I don't want to be held down. I don't want
00:36:33.300to be held back. And that's been a real personal struggle for me. I also go to my altar. I'm
00:36:39.460devoted to Santa Muerte, who I really think is wonderful for disabled people because she doesn't
00:36:47.260care what you do or what your past is or who you are. She'll just take you. And so I often will
00:36:53.800just say like i feel terrible today can you help as my mother in life and death can you just help
00:36:58.940me get through the day and that's probably like all what i have going on me but i think the biggest
00:37:04.400thing is to actually listen and it's okay to give in to the shitty days if you can if you can rest
00:37:10.900can you remind us again what the four bodies are yeah so granddaughter crow everybody should read
00:37:18.320her books I'm just saying I adore her I mean we love GDC around here we are down with GDC yeah
00:37:24.420yeah she's amazing and she um she's so excited I was on the show today she's like oh yes like
00:37:31.460love everybody over there so um yeah so she talks about how we have these four bodies and you
00:37:39.620really and I really like seeing them as bodies like I'm a I'm not too much of a visual person
00:37:45.440but I do try to see them as like these four kind of separate selves, right?
00:37:49.780Kind of like how people will separate their ego or their inner child from their inside,
00:49:29.680Perhaps what can fall away is two questions
00:49:33.580that I'm currently kind of personally reflecting on.
00:49:38.320We have to shift and fall away from,1.00
00:49:40.860am I doing this witchcraft practice correctly0.82
00:49:43.560into what kinds of knowledge does my body-mind make possible
00:49:50.180and how can my witchcraft practice honor that?
00:49:55.340So maybe today on the equinox, you just think of those two statements and visualize the
00:50:03.580falling leaves of, am I doing this practice correctly?
00:50:07.900That's falling off those trees that you've planted.
00:50:11.300And instead, what's going to come later, maybe you take all the way to the spring equinox
00:50:17.940and then you have your answer to what kinds of knowledge does my body mind make possible0.57
00:50:23.740and how can my practice honor that because you are witchy enough so no matter what we're doing0.53
00:50:31.480for the equinox it's fine no matter what you're doing it's totally fine it's totally fine
00:50:41.100a friend of mine very recently got into witchcraft um and i think it was maybe the spring equinox at
00:50:47.600the time and i was like it's the spring equinox and you're a witch now and she was like what do
00:50:52.560i do you know what do i do and i said notice that it's the equinox and that is really all you have
00:51:01.380to do jasmine um if listeners want to support your work or follow you what's the best way to
00:51:08.000do that what's the best place to find you oh my goodness um i am i think if i can remember my
00:51:14.360instagram handle i'm at j aurora because it's my name j-a-u-r-o-r-a 88 on instagram um if you
00:51:25.120really want to connect with me you have to join the missing witches coming
00:51:28.140but yeah i i have uh i have a bit of a social media presence but no um if they want to support
00:51:38.840me i would say you don't have to support me but please support your local disability rights
00:51:44.320organization disability justice organization um if i could plug alice wong's legacy of uh
00:51:51.360crips e-sims for gaza please if you'd like to donate financially to that that's important um
00:51:59.120and also if you really want to support disabled witches maybe um thinking about how you can be0.83
00:52:05.040covid safe in your life and masking and making sure the air is clean for folks and when you're
00:52:12.080hosting events in person you know consider how to make it covid safe because some of us are
00:52:17.880chronically ill because of of covid um yeah you and if you want to just connect like i said you
00:52:24.380can find me on missing witches you'll just have to come in and see and of course i i'll double
00:52:31.200check the spelling of your instagram handle and put that in the show notes too i can't remember
00:52:36.100it's fine don't worry about it it's fine i'm gonna take care of that for you babe let me be your
00:52:41.240altar jenny of course by the books the one we're talking about today is called divergent witchcraft
00:52:49.500and you have two other books as well so feel free to plug those right now yeah i wanted to let
00:52:55.520everybody know divergent witchcraft is also an audiobook i'm really proud of it because the
00:52:59.920voice actress did a really nice job um someone's like why don't you read it it's like i don't want
00:53:04.780to like that seems like a lot of work for me and i'm not a voice actress so anyway it's really
00:53:11.060nice. She did a wonderful job. And then I have Spirit Crystals, which is definitely more on the
00:53:19.440woo-woo side, but I do talk about Hecate in there. And then I have a third book to be determined on
00:53:25.520the title, but it'll be basically every chapter is a month. And I just talk about like how to
00:53:31.480live your practice. Cause that's something I get a lot is like, okay, I'm a witch. Now what do I do
00:53:36.200like every day? And I was like, well, you don't have to do anything, but you know, it's like,
00:53:40.140just kind of some ideas. And you can find me, I have, I got to, we talked about GDC,
00:53:46.080but I recently became a co-host on her podcast, Belief Being and Beyond. And we are hosting,
00:53:53.300every month we're trying to host different kind of like round table dialogues with different folks.
00:53:58.960You can find me on my own podcast, Cozy Coven Chats. And you can find me sometimes on the
00:54:04.080Witches Movie Coven with Patti Negri, and that's completely silly. So we are just talking about
00:54:10.040witchy movies, and it's just a really good time. We're going to be talking about Practical Magic
00:54:15.740too soon, so it's always on Wednesday and it's live, and it's so funny. If you are a Jason Menke
00:54:23.360fan, if anybody's ever read his books, his books are so like very serious and intellectual, but he
00:54:27.840is absolutely hysterical, so that's really fun. And then my website is JennySebell.com.
00:54:34.840I'm so excited about this witch movie podcast.
00:54:37.840Jasmine was talking about doing one with another coven mate of ours.
00:54:42.240We just did, I host something called Witchcraft 101.
00:54:46.360And so we just kind of like take a casual approach to different subjects.
00:54:49.560And just yesterday we did pop culture witches.
00:54:53.380So we had a whole conversation about witches and movies.
00:54:57.640And you'll send me all the links and I will put them in the show notes to all of that.
00:55:01.840Ivy, how can our listeners support you, find you, lift you up?
00:55:06.580I know that there is an accompanying deck of cards for Disability Witchcraft that is not out yet, but I think there's a pre-order link out there.