00:02:39.340injustice we come together to believe that it can be different and that by coming together
00:02:46.360we make it different and we see as leaders for us in that the thinkers that we've invited here today
00:02:55.920and in part that's because of the way that they draw on their neurodivergence to
00:03:01.500offer what they see and how they see as a gift to the rest of us and they'll be better able to
00:03:08.500speak about that than I will but that's the context for today I want to open with a small
00:03:13.560ritual and then Amy will do a little reading and then we'll invite our guests to introduce
00:03:19.540themselves and to introduce the questions that they brought to the circle today.
00:03:25.760So I want to begin by inviting you to be as comfortable as you can be in the body that
00:03:39.380you're in, the space that you're in, the systems of systemic racism and injustice, capitalism,
00:03:50.840constant crushing fears. Let's not deny that those things impede on our comfort.
00:03:58.080But to find in this moment, whatever ease is possible to you, we invite you to lie down,
00:04:05.920turn off your camera come close to the camera fidget do whatever makes sense in your body
00:04:13.040sway a little bit if that feels good for you and then if this is available to you and comfortable
00:04:22.800to you consider removing the mask gently touch your face if that feels good to you
00:04:34.380the muscles of your face and wipe away in all those tiny ways we hold our face
00:04:43.800whatever you've been feeling you've had to hold to make a mask this is a space where we
00:04:51.980invite you to drop your masks and be with us as the wild magic strange flickering life form that
00:04:59.580you are and if there are other comfort gestures that you enjoy touch your hands rub your hair
00:05:08.400smell the inside of your elbow we also invite you if you are going to speak in this circle
00:05:16.280or introduce yourself in the chat or share in any way to feel comfortable doing so in a way
00:05:25.200that's natural to you. If it feels good to apologize, then apologize, but don't feel like
00:05:31.200you need to. So if you go off on a tangent, if you lose your train of thought, if you start something
00:05:37.480and end up somewhere different, those are things I think we feel so much pressure to apologize for,
00:05:42.940but maybe that's part of being kept in linear time, right? And so this is an opening where
00:05:48.280I hope you feel comfortable to spiral and stumble and open up questions, go quiet, ask us all to be quiet for a second if it feels too hectic.
00:06:09.160Thank you, Risa, so much for that ritual of unmasking.
00:06:13.020I think that part of the pressure of capitalism is to fit into the norm, and we as witches, of all varieties, the one thing that we are comfortable with is being different.
00:06:29.800I will describe myself. My name is Amy. I have long gray hair. I'm a white woman in her 40s, and I'm proudly wearing my T-shirt today that says,
00:06:38.900stay weird. And I just want to give a big open and loving space to all of our differences and
00:06:46.540to conjure the spirit of Audre Lorde, who knew that differences are advantageous when we work
00:06:54.140together. That's the only way that we can make a full picture of our humanity is when we all come
00:06:59.640together like we're doing today. So I wanted to read something that Risa wrote. It's always a joy
00:07:05.920to read to each other and to have our work read to us by each other. This is from our
00:07:13.520book, Missing Witches, Recovering True Histories of Feminist Magic. Thank you all again so much
00:07:18.400for being here. It is Ostara, Eostar. It is the spring equinox. Dark and light reach another
00:07:30.240point of balance on the spinning wheel. Light is increasing quickly, and the darkness will recede,
00:07:37.760but for this moment they breathe together.
00:07:45.600This is the ancient goddess holiday that gives us bunnies and baby chicks. This is the pagan story
00:07:52.160overwritten by the peace-loving anarchist hippie Jesus's execution, dissent, and return.
00:08:00.320In honor of the beginning of spring, we can ritualize an opening for new ideas and new
00:08:07.520ways of thinking. On the spring equinox, day and night are equal. Our shadows, personal and
00:08:16.380collective look us in the eye and they can heal and guide us so with that we would love to invite
00:08:25.980our panelists our guests our wise ones to one by one introduce yourselves share a bit about your
00:08:37.020projects what you've been working on what you've been thinking about and then share your question
00:08:43.180and then we'll play it daisy chain style we'll have you call on the next person so we can sort
00:08:49.780of step back and let you all step to the forefront um to start i'll invite a collaborator and coven
00:08:58.200mate who has been helping us improve our own approach to accessibility in a way that has felt
00:09:05.680really gentle and encouraging and a way that made space for both of us to do it and not feel
00:09:17.200guilt or shame or rush or capitalist pressure. I will share this with you from Julie's signature
00:09:23.900and then invite her to introduce herself. Julie's recently added to her email signature
00:09:30.340after it says, you know, Julie Nowak, Masters of Education, she, they pronouns, educator,
00:09:37.360activist, writer, consultant, founder of the Seasonal Body. I reject the ableist urgency
00:09:41.820model of our culture and do not apologize for disability-related absences or response times.
00:09:49.280Thanks, Julie. Thanks for being here. Thank you for having me. I'm so happy to be here.
00:09:56.060um uh so as risa said my name is julie nowak i use she her or they don't they them pronouns
00:10:05.640i live near uh tukaronto which is the indigenous name for what we colonially call toronto in
00:10:13.580canada uh to describe what i look like i'm a white person with relatively short brown hair
00:10:19.800I'm wearing a black top and red headset.
00:10:32.040And I am an activist and an educator and consultant doing work around disability justice and body liberation and nature connection and food justice.
00:10:47.600through a project I started called Seasonal Body.
00:10:51.780I came to this in part based on my own experience
00:10:55.780of finding healing in relation to eating disorders
00:10:59.940through farming and connecting with nature.
00:11:03.680And now a lot of my work is focused on making the connections
00:11:06.600between disability justice and nature as well.
00:11:10.180In the spirit of challenging capitalism,
00:11:13.540I want to name aspects of my life that are separate from productivity because I'm trying
00:11:20.100to decouple that that's where my worth is and so the majority of my time as a chronically ill person
00:11:26.700is spent resting and taking care of myself and my main form of income is social assistance which I0.82
00:11:33.680name because I want to destigmatize that and say that many disabled and chronically ill folks our0.54
00:11:40.140income is from social assistance. And I want us all to work on getting us to get more money from
00:11:45.840social assistance because it's not enough to live on. So wherever you are, like me in Canada or in
00:11:51.640the US, the system and the bureaucracy of that sucks. And so a lot of my time goes to navigating
00:11:56.640the system, to be honest. And that being said, I'm very passionate about some of my creative
00:12:02.480projects. I'm currently creating a podcast that is trying to make nature connection more accessible
00:12:09.780to folks who are homebound like me. So I'm creating experiential nature connection activities
00:12:17.660that can kind of be like ecotherapy from wherever you are. And I just launched a Patreon if anyone
00:12:23.760wants to help kickstart that. But I know there are many here who have Patreon, so I encourage you to
00:12:28.720support them all. And my question for this group, I have a lot of questions, but the one I will
00:12:36.720bring to the space is asking us how we can collectively make our spiritual spaces more
00:12:43.980accessible and welcoming to neurodivergent folks on a practical level on an ideological level
00:12:50.400all that so that's where I will go with that and next I will pass this to Brandy thank you so much
00:12:59.280Julie and thank you everyone for having me here. It's such an honor. My name is Brandy and I am
00:13:08.720a black woman. I have medium brown skin. I have black curly hair. I'm currently wearing a purple
00:13:17.220top and a black choker, a black nose ring, and I have a moon tapestry in the background that has
00:13:25.380purple moons on it. So I'm cancer rising and the moon really calls to me. I am ADHD. So
00:13:33.600where do I go next? Do you want to share some of your projects and then your question? Okay.
00:13:41.280Some of the projects that I'm currently working on, I do have a presence on Instagram, but I am
00:13:49.100kind of migrating more towards YouTube because I love to make long form content. So I'm doing
00:13:56.720collective monthly readings, as well as readings for all of the signs. So for your sun, moon and
00:14:04.360rising, but I do more of soul tarot rather than predictive tarot. My lineage comes from
00:14:12.300Tarot for the Wild Soul with Lindsay Mack, if you've heard of her. So I really resonate with
00:14:19.060that type of tarot because her motto about the tarot is that if it doesn't include everyone,
00:14:26.260it doesn't include anyone. So that level of inclusivity really spoke to me because when I
00:14:34.140started looking at tarot videos and really got into astrology, there wasn't a lot out there
00:14:41.080that made space for marginalized identities, that there were some things that really felt like they
00:14:49.820left out people who looked like me or had the lifestyle that I have. Like I am a chronically
00:14:59.360disabled person, a chronically ill person. I also am a person who is, I am autistic and I have ADHD.
00:15:08.660I am recovering from birth trauma and depression, constantly working on that. So, you know, to hear
00:15:19.080this person is an energy vampire, or, you know, many of the other terms that you hear
00:15:26.100in the tarot space that's on YouTube, really did not make me feel welcome. So I'm creating
00:15:33.100the space that I would have wanted to see. And part of that is I really love astrology. I'm an
00:15:40.440intuitive astrologer. I'm still a student of Hellenistic and modern astrology. So I incorporate
00:15:50.380astrology into my tarot practice, and I am rebooting a podcast that I started last year
00:15:57.180called Venus in Retrocast. So it's all about making connections between the cards using the
00:16:03.240astrological rulerships. And I'm really excited to do this in a visual way on my YouTube.
00:16:11.000I kind of think of it as my lemonade from, you know, Beyonce's visual album, because as a
00:16:19.940neurodivergent person I'm very visual so doing it in a space that was completely
00:16:26.500audio based it really didn't it created some barriers for me so I was like why not work it
00:16:35.100in a way that works for me so and another project that I have coming up is that I made my own
00:16:41.900tarot spread question deck so I am going to be putting that kickstarter out this summer
00:16:47.720Um, and then just like Julie said, um, outside of the capitalist system, I am on disability and I have been for, since 2012.
00:17:00.380um so really feeling that um you know that resonance with what she said about how in unjust
00:17:12.820the disability system is for people who need that assistance to live because if I wasn't married
00:17:20.740you know if I didn't have a husband who earned an income my life would look very different than
00:17:28.340it does. And I feel very fortunate for that. But at the same time, I feel like I should be able to
00:17:34.220support myself no matter what. And that should be for everyone. Everyone should have a basic
00:17:40.460standard of living. So I'm a big believer in that and divesting from capitalism. Yeah. And the
00:17:48.280question that I posed, let me look at it, was one of what was one of the biggest barriers for you
00:17:56.020in deepening your practice or entering into any kind of practice around witchcraft, tarot,
00:18:04.600any spiritual practice? And then what traditional rules did you find unnecessary or a way of
00:18:11.360gatekeeping neurodivergent people out of this space? And then what advice can you give to anyone
00:18:19.140who is new that feels caught in this dynamic? And I will pass this on to Sarah.
00:18:26.020I'm Sarah. I'm coming to y'all from Denver, Colorado. Usually I'm in LA on unceded Tongva land. And I, just to describe what I look like, I'm a white person with brown hair and glasses. I'm wearing earrings that are made of dead beetles. And I'm in my grandmother's office surrounded by her angel figurines and her sticky notes.
00:18:47.680And I let the group know this, but my grandmother passed a couple of days ago.
00:18:50.960I'm actually in Denver attending her shiva slash wake, which we've been calling a shwake, which I think is hilarious.
00:18:59.700And I, yeah, I'm really thrilled to be here.
00:19:02.160Thank you so much for having me and creating a panel of these kinds of voices.
00:19:17.000I love that work and also I think it kind of lacks a certain degree of depth in the spiritual realms
00:19:26.940and so I have really found a home for myself in my spiritual practice and in the spiritual
00:19:33.340communities that exist in LA I am a professional tarot reader as well I've been doing tarot since
00:19:39.480I was like a 12 year old and to to you know for better or for worse I had some pretty challenging
00:19:45.520experiences with the tarot as a teenager and very eye-opening experiences and it's tarot has
00:19:52.120become something I trust like a very good friend and my projects right now that are kind of in that
00:20:00.280space include a book about the tarot that I'm writing but it's more through the lens of using
00:20:06.860tarot for creative practice also interrogating gender within the tarot and the binaries of
00:20:14.160magic in general and coming to it from like a pretty non-dual perspective as well as engaging
00:20:21.440some of these questions around neurodiversity so my I identify as neuroqueer and my relationship
00:20:29.360to that comes through being having a multi-layered experience around neurodivergence that has you
00:20:40.900know and having some resistance also to the labels and the idea of the dsn in general as something
00:20:45.740crafted by cishet white men to other people so i i want to engage that while also recognizing
00:20:52.940the value of finding community and finding labels that help us connect to each other but i have a
00:21:00.700few types of neurodivergence and i think the one that feels the most engaged right now is my
00:21:05.880synesthesia, which I have two kinds of, um, in now in this exact moment, I'm having some pretty
00:21:10.900visceral experiences, which is very interesting. Um, and yeah, and also I have ADHD and I'm a
00:21:17.560highly sensitive person and I also am, um, on the autism spectrum. So there's a whole range of
00:21:23.460interacting identities and I've been delighting in understanding how those things connect to each
00:21:29.620other and mapping them out, um, in my experience. And the questions that I brought for the group
00:21:34.540are pretty they're pretty surface level but they feel really crucial to me in sort of understanding
00:21:39.700the link between neurodivergence and magic so my question is wondering if there is a historical or
00:21:45.500potentially past life link between these two ideas and are these different ways of being and seeing
00:21:51.620and doing coming from the nerd like is it a chicken and egg situation where do these begin
00:21:57.260and where they end I've been also really thinking about the idea of wound and gift and I think every
00:22:03.180aspect of our gift is also seated in some way as a wound. And I really see for myself, and this is
00:22:09.200just speaking to my own experience that my neurodivergent feels that way. Like the hyper
00:22:13.940vigilance I have around other people has led me to be as a fellow Cancer Rising, a very empathetic,
00:22:22.460engaged tarot reader. And also it creates an enormous amount of anxiety and stress in my own
00:22:28.000body. And so there's just a really interesting conversation I think to be had for how these
00:22:32.420things emerge and um and the huge overlap like almost everybody i know who is neurodivergent
00:22:38.260is also a witch or somehow connected to the magic community so that's me and i will um popcorn this
00:22:46.980over to a link slash amanda who i haven't gotten a chance to meet yet hi um
00:22:53.060I just introduced myself firstly as an attempt
00:23:22.280language revitalization and reclaiming indigenous space. It's something that's
00:23:28.340really new to me. But I just said that my name is Lynx or Amanda. My spirit name is
00:23:37.960Jilaktaw, which means the one who leaves footprints. And my indigenous ties are to
00:23:47.160Unamagi, particularly Wetmakuk First Nation and Nyansa area. I'm an urban mixed Mi'kmaq person
00:23:58.940who identifies as two-spirit and queer. I'm currently living in Guelph, but was born and
00:24:05.500raised in Montreal, Quebec. And I use the word Bowenesque, which is the Mi'kmaq word for witch,0.99
00:24:14.420And it also kind of aligns with new terminology that's used for two-spirit folk, which is really interesting, like, derivation and etymology.
00:24:36.280Negum is the singular they word in Mi'kmaq, which is really nice.
00:24:41.520In terms of a physical description of myself, I'm a light-skinned Indigenous person with dyed blonde hair and I guess like yellow-brimmed glasses wearing a black turtleneck, a pink top over top of it, and a beaded bolo tie made by an Indigenous friend of mine.1.00
00:25:06.420and I'm sitting in an office with a couple of like a door behind me and some cat toys and stuff
00:25:17.520um in terms of me and what I do um a little bit of a multi-hyphenate um practicing astrologer
00:25:29.060uses intuitive mostly but borrows from modern and hellenistic and is trying to find ways to like
00:25:36.920bring indigenous star knowledges back to that apple and tarot and energy work but most of the
00:25:44.080time work as a visual artist and facilitator some of the recent things that i've been working on
00:25:51.480have been creating and designing spaces for two-spirit youth virtually during the pandemic to
00:26:00.880ideate and think about a gender fluid regalia dance style which is something that kind of
00:26:10.140intersects with multiple identities but approaches colonialism in the ways that people are often
00:26:18.760ostracized from accessing ceremony yeah just making stuff in terms of neurodivergence it's
00:26:27.720a really new thing that I've attached to my identity and is unraveling and being loved back
00:26:37.880into myself so in terms of that um i live with adhd and autism level one and also i'm a cancer
00:26:51.400rising too so it's a full house of us which is kind of neat well before you pass the mic amanda
00:26:57.780can you can you repeat that word that you used in lieu of which and maybe spell it even
00:27:05.980I had never heard it before so I'm really excited to dig into this if I can spell it
00:27:13.500yeah it's uh p-u-o-i-n apostrophe s-k-w um so the p sounds kind of like a b but when
00:27:25.360thank you so much too would you also share your questions before you do the chain us along
00:27:33.000For sure. Some neurodivergent gifts and special skills include enhanced perception and pattern recognition. Is this true for you? In what ways does it influence your magical practice? Do you experience anesthesia?
00:27:48.560what is your opinion on people using terms like indigo children or hsp highly sensitive person
00:27:58.160as a neurodivergent witch in what ways have these terms been stigmatizing for neurodivergent and
00:28:05.200autistic people and witches and the dsm's been highly problematic for people on the spectrum
00:28:13.760as well as those who identify with mental health diagnosis at one point autism was only
00:28:20.580characterized under schizophrenia asperger's system sorry asperger's syndrome was coined by
00:28:27.840hans asperger who was a eugenicist what are some reflections you have on the neurodivergent
00:28:34.640spectrum would you categorize these disorders um on quotes differently if you could rewrite
00:28:43.080the DSM and how neurodivergence is perceived. I'll pass the mic over to Marcella.
00:28:57.080Thank you. Hi, my name is Marcella. My pronouns are she, her. I am currently in Pavanga,
00:29:06.420the Tonga Spiritual Center, also known as Long Beach, California, but I am from the East Coast
00:29:15.980originally. I am a autistic, multiracial person. I am really finding as an older, I hate even saying
00:29:30.940Elder Witch. I'm going to be 45 on March 20th and I've been doing this a very long time
00:29:39.840and I'm still finding my footing on how to talk publicly. For visuals and inclusivity,
00:29:52.180I am wearing, I call it my emotional support hoodie. It's a beat up black hoodie with a
00:29:58.900bad brains patch on it. And I wear it often because it's very comfortable and feels good
00:30:05.280on my body. I'm pale in complexion, but olive toned. I have a lot of ancestral tattoos that
00:30:16.360I have been working into my body over the years as I reclaim and connect back to my roots
00:30:24.180in my multi-racial and cultural diversity. I'm wearing a wampum shell to connect to my
00:30:34.520Wampanoag relatives and ancestors. And yeah, I'm in my little office area. When I was asked to do
00:30:48.000this. I was really grateful. There are not many places to speak on neurodiversity and there are
00:30:56.300more and more of us coming forward or at least being more visible. I did not receive a diagnosis
00:31:02.220until 2019 and I'm also like a firm believer in self-diagnosis as a key to finding your path.
00:31:10.480There are multiple things that I've been working on. I've been a full-time reader since 2009
00:31:16.900and offering tarot introductory classes for teens and tweens through the Los Angeles Public Library.
00:31:24.120And I've been reading cards since 1995. I am a very vocal, recovering addict, alcoholic,
00:31:32.180and magic and witchcraft have definitely helped me find my way in my discovery of self when I did
00:31:41.320not have anyone to talk to growing up in Rhode Island and over in only in the last four years
00:31:48.280I did find out that um that I come from not just on my mother's side that but my father's side0.99
00:31:56.340there's a lot of um magical wounded people and institutionalized women including my grandmother
00:32:03.700my great grandmother who were seers and um so a lot of my work i realize at this point
00:32:12.400is about creating uh healing spaces for those who reside in the liminal
00:32:17.420i've also had multiple near-death experiences i don't feel like i fit in anywhere um and i've
00:32:26.000felt like that my whole life and i still feel like that even in places that welcome me
00:32:31.480because I'm so in and out of, I guess, the physical world and even my own body a lot of the time.
00:32:40.120So I create decks, a lot of them, and I create classes or books and things that I've been working
00:32:48.540on mainly as an artist first and a sensitive person or empathic and intuitive psychic second.
00:32:58.520and i feel like when i can create artistically it's the way that i can make the the energy
00:33:07.360physical and again i i really think that part of my path in this current life is to create spaces
00:33:16.880spiritually for those who come from oppressed lineages or people who's had their culture stolen
00:33:23.560or taken or had to hide from it I create spaces for them to connect back to it and I'd like to
00:33:29.600create more of a reverence for that because as a multi-racial person it's not been a place that
00:33:38.380I feel like I have the kind of connection right or I don't know if that's proper way of saying it
00:33:45.540but like it's hard for me to go into spaces and feel like not an imposter or like I'm overstepping
00:33:51.380so how do we create these spaces where you can reconnect and honor your lineages your bloodlines
00:33:59.420and your own neurodiversity in ways that are respectful and honor those who came before but
00:34:05.880also honor the autonomy of who you are and where you are headed to best support you on your path
00:34:10.720and my question was very much like the similar the start of this is how can we unmask in our
00:34:22.460magic I found that through performance ritual that's really helped me even though like I have
00:34:29.320not been able to do that in some time since the current pandemic but thank you I like to say thank
00:34:36.100you um in some of the languages that i'm reconnecting to um so i i like to say grazi
00:34:43.000that's italian obrogado in portuguese uh salamat filipino tagala and kusha patash and i'm still
00:34:53.940trying to find a wampanoag uh teacher to learn how to speak more wampanoag thank you and i'm
00:35:01.740going to daisy chain it to Lucy. Hello my name is Lucy Pearce and I am based in Ireland. I'm Anglo-Irish
00:35:12.460living on the south coast of Ireland the Celtic Sea. I am sat here with my tabby cat on my chest
00:35:25.000who's helping me to feel a little calmer um I've got medium length about half gray half dark
00:35:34.380um hair I'm in my early 40s um I've got pink glasses and um my very very soft cozy comforting
00:35:46.800butterfly scarf, which I wrap myself in for interviews, so I don't feel so scared.
00:35:55.860So I am a mother of three, and I am the founder of Womancraft Publishing, which publishes
00:36:03.460life-changing, paradigm-shifting books by women for women. And I am an author of a ridiculous0.95
00:36:12.560sounding 10 books I am prolific in my creativity I'm a visual artist I'm currently illustrating
00:36:23.100a new one of our books which excuse me I've had COVID for the last week so I haven't done much
00:36:31.520talking and sound a bit chestier than normal so I've been in bed not able to do much but drawing
00:36:39.320for about six or seven hours a day illustrating the kitchen witch companion book that we are
00:36:48.360putting together and we've just launched the kitchen witch the first kitchen witch book
00:36:55.780so it's really exciting to be able to do something from bed and bed is where I do most of my work
00:37:02.480from I'm late diagnosed autistic and ADHD a lot of chronic health stuff which I wrote about in my
00:37:10.940book Medicine Woman and I really enjoy working I people kind of refer to me and in my head I kind
00:37:19.360of think I should refer to myself as an author because that's what I've done the most of I've
00:37:23.580written you know almost a million words um in the last decade and in book form but actually
00:37:31.940word and image the the intersection between word and image is is where it is for me um that kind
00:37:40.220of magic space where ideas take form and sometimes they come through words and sometimes they come
00:37:47.580through images and sometimes they require both and that's that's what what I love to work with
00:37:51.860most and my question is how can we learn to work together when working together is so tricky and
00:38:01.500challenging for us when we are neurodivergent thank you everyone so much for opening up in
00:38:08.340such thoughtful ways when we ask guests um to introduce themselves i think that's always what
00:38:15.800amy and i are hoping for is like take us deep into the emotional world of your projects let us
00:38:21.340see it from that that place that you all just shared it from so that was incredibly generous
00:38:26.580and we thank you for that I didn't describe myself at the beginning I get really flustered when I do
00:38:33.240these things so I'm gonna do it now I'm a early 40s white woman with messy brown hair and a brown
00:38:42.920sweater and I podcast from my partners and my studio so there's a lot of leather work hanging
00:38:50.180behind me and I have multiple barrettes in my hair because my kid did my hair before today
00:38:56.000that felt good to do Julie suggested we do that as part of our ongoing kind of reaching outward
00:39:04.620and it feels really nice I want to just open it at this point and I hope you'll allow it Amy's
00:39:13.180done us the generosity of putting all of the questions in the chat so panelists if there
00:39:20.980was something that was asked that you felt fired up about or you wanted to add your thoughts on
00:39:27.400I'm going to as a non-panelist take it take it away Amy because I'm really interested in Brandy's
00:39:37.060question about what barriers or gatekeeping you have found as an ND person and if you can
00:39:46.940describe those to us so that we can be conscious in our goings-on that we're not we're not replicating
00:39:53.020these things so maybe we'll we'll start with Brandy since it was your question. One of the
00:39:57.720biggest things especially in tarot was especially thinking as a neurodivergent person sometimes we
00:40:06.620can be very literal or at least speaking for myself like when it comes to rules I'm a Capricorn
00:40:13.300moon and we follow rules um simple things like you have to be gifted your first tarot deck
00:40:21.540you know you could be waiting forever if you come from a traditional family that doesn't believe in0.99
00:40:29.860you know tarot and thinks it's work of the devil throw that shit out I'm sorry0.99
00:40:36.780and buy your own deck you know I don't think I would have ever gotten started if I had to wait0.99
00:40:43.800for someone to gift me my own deck and then the ways that especially if we're looking at
00:40:51.480that economy you know you need this crystal or you need this ingredient to make your spell work
00:40:58.500Or you have to really set your intention and focus. Well, what does that mean if you're ADHD and your mind is going here, there and everywhere and you're trying to cast, you know, there have to be workarounds around that.
00:41:15.700And actually, I posted on Instagram for anybody, you know, neurodivergent or not, if you can't hold your tarot question or your intention in your head, write it down on a piece of paper, it will hold the space for you. And I find that it works all the time.
00:41:36.680And that was one of the biggest reasons that I created my spread deck. I thought it was interesting because sometimes we don't know what to ask or we would just, you know, I think it's interesting to let fate decide, but it's a nice space holder for you to have this question right there and then you shuffle the cards and see what comes out.
00:42:00.420but you don't have to sit there and worry about, oh, my mind is wandering. The cards aren't going
00:42:07.160to show up with the answers that I need because I'm thinking about something else. That's the
00:42:12.940wonderful thing about so many neurodivergent practitioners and witches and tarot readers
00:42:18.440coming forward is that we're filling that need for other people who are seeking what it is that
00:42:24.400we couldn't find. It's like need is the mother of all invention. I'm so thankful
00:42:30.200for other voices that I've found on social media who really gave me the license to kind of throw
00:42:40.440some of those things away and just kind of create a practice that works for me. And I'm still
00:42:48.260learning. It's a journey. But yeah, I can see where you're brand new and you have a certain
00:42:54.820idea of the way things are supposed to be based on tradition or what you've read in a book, it can
00:43:02.080really frustrate a person into not even wanting to start. And that's something that really makes
00:43:09.400me sad and upset because I think it keeps a lot of people out that really should and have a right
00:43:16.600to be here. Does anyone else want to speak to this question? Sure, I will. This is Julie speaking.
00:43:22.520Um, I think what comes most to my mind is, um, so my neurodivergent comes from traumatic brain injury
00:43:31.680and it has affected my ability to be concise. And it feels like in some spaces, yeah, this whole
00:43:43.020concept of taking up space is this sticky thing, this sticky thing for me. Um, and so I have found
00:43:51.040that as a barrier for some more spiritual type spaces where I feel like I have to be so guarded
00:44:00.360and careful with my words or else I'm concerned I'll be perceived in a particular way. And people
00:44:09.340even sometimes make comments about that as well. Hi, it's Sarah. I am finding myself called to
00:44:16.780speak to the sort of flip side of that and while simultaneously acknowledging of course everything
00:44:22.360that was shared feels very real and very true to me and also realizing that for me in some ways
00:44:28.860accessing magical spaces was the first time I felt like I could communicate things
00:44:33.080in the I don't have an inner monologue I don't think in words I think in pictures and so all
00:44:40.900of my life is translation and sometimes triple translation and and being in a magical space
00:44:47.500being in a tarot space was sort of the first time I and maybe this is a choice I made but gave
00:44:51.380myself permission to say this is the image that's coming up for me when you say that or this is how
00:44:56.460I'm processing this as an abstract concept and I found that permission was really necessary and
00:45:05.060beautiful and also feels very specific to magical spaces but has allowed me to then bring that into
00:45:10.880non-magical spaces as well, I was really feeling called to express the permission. I mean,
00:45:18.960there's always both because that's unfortunately the society that we live in, but the permission
00:45:23.440felt really crucial too. So I'm interested in where that takes us in terms of Julie's other
00:45:31.600question, what can neurodivergent folks teach spiritual communities in the world? There's so
00:45:37.840many things I want to pull on from all of these questions and, you know, being autistic and being
00:45:44.140a reader and, you know, kind of making sure that we give ourselves, just speaking from the reader's
00:45:53.600perspective or the person holding the space for others, giving ourselves the space and time to
00:46:00.140process things without feeling a rush or an urgency to fix or have a concrete answer is so
00:46:10.240important and allows us to find nuance in how we're deciphering or delivering a message. I think
00:46:18.460there is a lot of urgency sometimes in this sense of we have to be called to action. We have to have
00:46:27.620an answer and sometimes we don't have answers or we need space just from my own experience like i
00:46:33.860i don't do events anymore really i can't um and i haven't in a while because they become
00:46:40.280like system overload for me personally and it's like i either i'm getting way too much information
00:46:47.820or and only one thing is blaring out um or i've had situations where i actually had a woman follow
00:46:54.980me into a closet of at an event space trying to get me to talk to her she wouldn't take the cue
00:47:00.700so I think I wish there were more people that understood maybe certain like or said what are
00:47:07.860your warning signs like what are your what's your what's your words when you need a little bit of
00:47:13.240more grounding or tethering or understanding through this you know through these sessions
00:47:17.920or through this work and I think we can teach maybe more neurotypical folks how to honor their
00:47:26.020own nervous system boundaries and sensory situations by knowing that not everything
00:47:32.320is a crisis or an emergency needing to be answered in that moment and sometimes things like life need
00:47:39.540to develop and grow like like a plant you know like it's like you don't you know there's that
00:47:45.000saying like you don't plant the seed and then have the plant there you know you have to wait
00:47:49.060for things to develop just like you you develop right my practice is consistently changing and
00:47:56.460growing I obviously don't have the same practice that I had at 17 or 18 emerging out of rehab
00:48:02.200like there's constant room for growth and readjustment and evolution and course correction
00:48:10.180you know and I also think you know to touch on I don't remember whose question was someone asked
00:48:14.460about, you know, the capitalism factor of all of this. And I think there is such a business end of
00:48:21.840things that neurodiverse people get pushed to like, well, you should just do it because you're
00:48:26.780going to make money. And I can't tell you how many situations or relationships blew up because I did0.71
00:48:32.860not have the capacity to keep up with what was needed. And it was pre-diagnosis. So, you know,
00:48:40.240I just think that there needs to be more allowance for individuals own
00:48:46.260bandwidth or battery levels. And I, and,
00:48:50.980and it has to be on an individual basis.
00:48:54.000It can't just be like one blanket thing because everyone is so different and
00:48:58.080operates and works differently. Teaching people that, you know,
00:49:02.120to be more deliberate or aware or just,
00:49:09.500it's just a different i don't know i always see my autism as being i have a different operating
00:49:13.860system so i try to explain to people that way and they seem to get it when i'm like you're running
00:49:19.240on os whatever and i'm running on this and then they seem to get it um so that's one way of putting
00:49:25.460it thanks for that i think that's a useful metaphor and it and it goes back to um i mean
00:49:32.020julie linked me to an article about crip time when we were starting to work together a little bit
00:49:36.600it does go back I think to something that is a real gift to all of us it's like let's unclench
00:49:43.100from this like terror of productivity a little bit and if we can learn to adjust that way because of
00:49:49.580each other's operating systems that will be a greater gift I want to pass to links to Amanda0.70
00:49:56.460because I know you have to go teach some kiddos right at 3 30 and I would love it if you had a
00:50:02.240chance to respond to any of these questions that jumped out for you I have no idea how to segue
00:50:08.040right now but I appreciate this I'm I am really interested in the idea of what your neurodivergence
00:50:16.440can teach the world or teach which which is what does it teach us about our practice
00:50:22.680how does it inform your art what are you learning from it and then also on this flip side like
00:50:29.820what are ways that uh we need to be more accommodating to each other's operating systems
00:50:35.660those are two that stood out for me but there are a lot of really great questions and we will share
00:50:39.660all these questions on our social and on our website afterwards when we share this whole
00:50:44.680episode and the transcript so these consider these conversations starting points okay maybe i'll just
00:50:51.100kind of do like a a word vomit of all of the things that were evoked with the questions um
00:51:01.340it was like how to unmask more so like leaning into talking to plants and spirits um
00:51:10.140and being on a lifelong journey of trusting your inner voice and knowing that that's been
00:51:17.660something that has not always been true for myself as somebody who has had the experiences
00:51:27.720I've had so having that language of neurodivergence to reparent yourself and reclaim early life
00:51:35.620experiences your connection to the mystical without that self-awareness
00:51:42.320um you end up hanging on to societal notions of guilt um i think um there's all always kind of
00:51:54.480uh social norms around talking taboo that kind of come into play when it i don't know i feel
00:52:02.580like it envelops about a bit of everything and then there was a question about past life links
00:52:08.340between neurodivergence and magic and i just had this uh sense to go into astrology so like
00:52:16.420in astrology we can look at nodal patterns and chart themes um chiron or pluto aspects
00:52:25.140nodal squares in evolutionary astrology um so often themes like persecution or placements of
00:52:34.120asteroids like Hecate and other asteroids that are very tight in orb to a personal planet can
00:52:42.520speak to repeating or trending archetypes and form like an inner dialogue or reflection.
00:52:50.080Sometimes the soul has urgency to fix past life problems or a person will be in a different life
00:52:56.200situation to settle old karma. For example, being autocratic or a leader in a past life and
00:53:03.400And in this life, having a disability or social difficulties to develop empathy and develop those parts of self further.
00:53:13.880And I think around barriers to deepening practice, it had a lot to do with colonialism.
00:53:20.340so always kind of being bad at history and geography and like school I realized that it
00:53:28.920had a lot to do with colonialism and not remembering the names and history had to do with
00:53:36.500uncovered and lost history so a lot of obfuscating or hiding the truth in general and kind of just
00:53:45.140trusting that not knowing those things or not feeling like those stories fit is actually part
00:53:52.040of our truth telling. When I was in my mid to late twenties, I started connecting more with
00:53:57.280Ilnu, Mi'kmaq practices, and then everything started clicking. So when it comes to like
00:54:04.360melting pots, a weird word, but when it comes to all of that, like we have all of these deities
00:54:09.560and practices that sort of mishmash and there's the responsibility to ourselves to like come
00:54:17.800into our identities and knowing that you don't need to blame yourself if you don't know your
00:54:26.080full history because of that colonial piece a lot as well but also knowing that the things that
00:54:33.620we're drawn to has a lot to do with our ancient lineages it has a lot to do with the things that
00:54:40.540call to us and have and call to our gifts so like knowing that we can be ethically responsible by
00:54:51.300undergoing that process of really like
00:54:54.900claiming parts of our identity that have been hidden or maybe even marginalized or
00:55:07.180knowing that the way that people in charge erased us you know that violence put upon us even as
00:55:16.520people who are late diagnosed autistic who are in that female spectrum of things too so that
00:55:23.860language wasn't there before that has often kind of looked at our own shame and guilt and trying to
00:55:38.580add masks to be socially adjusted in certain ways so getting getting through that unraveling process
00:55:48.020and trusting yourself a little bit when it comes to like not taking on and adopting years
00:56:00.260and years of self-belief and I'm getting distracted by the chat but I'm just trying to keep a train
00:56:09.220of thought kind of uh i i don't know i think i said quite a bit maybe like they're like little
00:56:19.660morsels i'm sure other people are like gonna trickle into maybe um i think you said a lot too
00:56:29.300and i think we don't have to be trains we can we can be sprouts of thought or something
00:56:33.920Lucy we haven't heard from you in a bit do you do you feel like there are some sprouts in there
00:56:42.280you want to sprout along with yeah definitely the the kind of the piece on on shame um you know for
00:56:50.400me has been a big thing um and for me my journey to discovering my autism was very much a journey
00:57:02.260of discovering my voice and discovering discovering myself through my writing a lot of
00:57:10.720autistic people tend to work best in the written word it tends to be a way of contacting our inner
00:57:21.260world um and I guess it's it's a spacious thing isn't it you have the time and the space to to
00:57:29.120find the right word to to hone in on a feeling or a thought which when you're you know kind of
00:57:37.760in speech can kind of flit and disappear or um often we find it very difficult to identify our
00:57:44.700feelings at all and so for me writing was the way into discovering this this self that I had
00:57:54.400had to mask from the world um and so for me language and languaging has been a massive
00:58:07.220part of my journey um being able to language the silence parts of myself the parts that I
00:58:14.960kept hidden in in shame and I realized when I was kind of reflecting um on the the questions that
00:58:24.960the others posed was that masking my magical self and masking my autistic self have been
00:58:34.500the same process the crossovers between my autistic self and my magical inclinations
00:58:44.020abilities have been the same and that was really interesting to me so I had learned on a very
00:58:52.680basic level from the very beginning that I was not normal and that was not okay
00:59:00.240but that that thing that wasn't normal and wasn't okay was both my magical self and my autistic
00:59:10.820self and I can't unbraid the two and so for me the last few years have been a process of coming out
00:59:19.360because to be to understand myself as autistic rather than flawed autistic rather than wrong
00:59:28.480has been vital and then to be able to allow myself to be seen as that but also in
00:59:39.580my magical beliefs ideas practices which is really tricky in you know I listen to you all
00:59:47.600talking and I think wow it sounds really cool where you live like I live in rural Ireland like
00:59:53.080I live in a small Catholic village um you don't get to be an out witch here so um being being an0.56
01:00:01.740out witch plus an out autistic person in a very small conservative community is is a really tricky
01:00:07.700thing to do so it's it's a uh an experience of great vulnerability and something that for me
01:00:14.900has meant that my practice both magical and creative is very solitary and not necessarily
01:00:23.680by choice but by need for safety for not for social approval but to avoid social
01:00:31.840trickiness um and so the question I posed was how do we get to to to share practices together
01:00:46.400is is multifaceted because first of all there has to be a kind of a degree of self-understanding
01:00:55.120and acceptance before we can kind of come into community uh because often otherwise if we don't
01:01:02.840have the language or the understanding for ourselves it's trickier often to interact with
01:01:07.340others because we're dealing with a huge amount of unprocessed or not understood trauma often
01:01:14.020especially in group settings um and then there's the trickiness of social interactions and you
01:01:24.980know each of us neurodivergent people having slightly different comfort levels and ways where
01:01:33.400ways of of interacting socially and then there's there's the part that you know kind of we get very
01:01:40.280overwhelmed like I love the fact that you've invited a circle of us here and it has been
01:01:48.500really tricky to be able to navigate that socially knowing when to take
01:01:56.280one's place when to speak what to speak how much to say because I'm very used to doing podcast
01:02:04.680interviews but for me it's a one-on-one experience usually and that is somewhere where I can dive deep
01:02:14.720and follow my own trains of thought whereas in a group situation it's a very very different thing
01:02:22.320so it's for most of us who are neurodivergent we've we've we have very
01:02:31.840rich alive inner worlds and it's often interacting with the outer world that is trickier and
01:02:39.860yet when we are able to see that we're not alone when we're able to interact with each other when
01:02:47.760we're able to see ourselves not as wrong or different or strange but like wonderfully weird
01:02:57.340gifted differently then we're able to weave those gifts together you know we were able to weave our
01:03:06.580magics together and they are far more powerful than the the the individual parts that we have
01:03:11.940but for so many of us there is a lot of shame there is a lot of overwhelm a lot of fear to
01:03:19.900overcome to be able to come out into the world at all just to do your shopping just to be able to
01:03:25.960drive a car or walk down the road that's big enough let alone to be able to enter a
01:03:31.320a group space and then let alone to be able to create magic to make art whatever it is together
01:03:41.300like they are all very big steps for most of us to do because we are naturally solitary
01:03:47.000and we have learned to be solitary because it's safer so when we are able to overcome those things
01:03:56.140magic happens and i am so grateful for the times in my life when i've had that but they are very
01:04:04.360few and far between and that does make me sad because it's not always chosen i just really
01:04:10.740want to uh repeat something you just said lucy um we have learned to be solitary because it's
01:04:17.740safer and i think so many of us can apply that to our lives for many various and different reasons
01:04:25.980And again, part of the reason that Risa and I hold these circles is to make a brave, safe space where, you know, we are one and not the other.
01:04:36.920I think, I mean, it's heartbreaking to know how much valuable perspective and visionary amazingness that we have lost by making the world unsafe for people who are different.0.60
01:04:54.100so I just I'm gonna say it one more time we have learned to be solitary because it's safer0.88
01:04:59.800it just I'm wrecked I'm wrecked it's such a succinct way of putting how so many of us feel
01:05:09.580I'm wrecked I love you thank you I will say we we sometimes leave ourselves muted
01:05:17.640and let the silence hang and that's an invitation so if you feel like we're doing that and it's
01:05:24.380awkward you're you're always welcome to step into it I'm gonna open um to questions from the
01:05:32.760community in a minute but if there was something that you felt you really wanted to respond to
01:05:37.400yeah Sarah yeah I was just having a desire to sort of in the spirit of like navigating my own shame
01:05:45.420to kind of address the statement I made earlier and kind of draw it in full circle because I
01:05:50.500think there was a part of me that was seeing those two spheres as interactive and not naming
01:05:55.560that verbally and so I just wanted to name that I think what can be so challenging about the way
01:06:01.540that gatekeeping can have the way that gatekeeping functions and can function in magical spaces is
01:06:07.560that there's also the pairing of that that that joy and sometimes that being seen and so to
01:06:13.580untangle the places where you feel pushed away and the places where you feel invited in can be
01:06:19.340really, really challenging and make that process really hard to emotionally understand.
01:06:24.860So there's a part of me that felt, I just wanted to make sure that I, that especially Brandy knows
01:06:31.580that I hear the ways in which you have experienced some of these really challenging things. And I
01:06:35.980so value that you have brought that to the table. And my statement was mostly to invite in the
01:06:43.120nuanced complications as I experienced it around that emotional core. And then the other thought
01:06:50.060I just really briefly wanted to throw out is this feeling of like porousness that is sort of how I
01:06:56.480name my own neurodivergence, which speaks to that overwhelm because we're, I think I'm going to say
01:07:05.160we, and if anyone wants to jump in and say that this doesn't apply to them, please do so. But I
01:07:10.540think that we are are actually processing enormous amounts of information that other that other
01:07:17.540people that people who may or may not experience neurodivergence aren't having to filter through
01:07:22.420and that that's the gift too right because we're we're accessing those pieces we may be in
01:07:28.360communication with our non-human um friends we may be in communication with um energies and colors
01:07:35.460and light and the hypervigilance of tiny muscle movements in the face and that can lead that0.92
01:07:41.540porousness can lead to a need for harder boundaries in community I yeah there's a desire here for me
01:07:49.660to speak to just this feeling of like it's like extrasensory perception you know um and and that's
01:07:58.700why they're so interrelated. There's so much bounty to touch and then also to filter that
01:08:05.740out and communicate it clearly and succinctly can be such a huge challenge. So, okay. The last
01:08:10.260little thing I'll say is I wrote this note that's from Amanda slash links. And it's a,
01:08:15.120it's a re-summary of something you said, but it's going to stick with me forever, which is
01:08:18.820history is hard to remember if your soul knows the truths, the other truths through lived
01:08:23.520experience. I thought I found what you were saying about that really, really, really compelling and
01:08:28.180really mumbling so I wanted to just echo it. Sarah can I just say I totally understood what
01:08:34.780you were saying and I appreciate that comment because I've I've felt similar ways and it's
01:08:42.600almost weird the dichotomy between being welcomed into a space but also um feeling like an outsider
01:08:51.900like what marcella has said um it's very i would say destabilizing in a way so i've i've had both
01:09:02.640experiences and i i hold space for that for both of those that you mentioned i think something that
01:09:08.940i really want to share is that the one of the gifts i've found with my neurodiversity is um
01:09:15.520because of that ability to kind of sense the truth even if it isn't presented
01:09:20.280and I think that was one of the things that got me into learning more about tarot and astrology
01:09:26.640like when I was in rehab I needed something to do and I couldn't hang out with my friends
01:09:30.360and it was like 1995 and nobody was going to rehab you know it was like pretty new the thing
01:09:36.260that always blew my mind was how even with like teaching myself tarot I didn't have a book I
01:09:42.820didn't have a mentor I just like threw the little booklet away and like just went on intuition and
01:09:50.760like pattern recognition um noticing colors because that's what I do I I look at I notice
01:09:56.940reoccurring things and images and numbers and and I think that there was something in me that knew
01:10:02.400the book was bullshit for lack of a better word and it's just like with a lot of things and I know
01:10:08.440not everybody has that luxury but I've always been like that my whole life was the only thing0.97
01:10:13.400nobody could take away from me was my mind they could take everything away from me and they did
01:10:19.140you know at different varying points like like object wise physical thing you know even my health
01:10:24.480but no one could take away my mind and I really attribute like my autism and ability to you know
01:10:34.200know that like okay there's something under this I don't know what it is but my every cell of my
01:10:43.080being knows what the truth is like the truth is not this what you're telling me and um so maybe
01:10:49.340just also showing up that when we do recognize because the other thing too is not everybody
01:10:53.680likes truth teller um or they get very upset by it so sometimes being neurodiverse and being in
01:11:00.760spaces and you're like, Hey, this doesn't feel right, but you don't know why. And you get labeled
01:11:06.480this kind of being difficult or problematic or because you're, because you just don't necessarily
01:11:12.160have the, the facts, the information for them, but you know, something's off. So I just want to
01:11:19.080encourage, you know, other neurodiverse witches and creators to, you might not know exactly why
01:11:27.260something doesn't feel right or doesn't sit but also that's why I've so heavily have become
01:11:33.840the type of person that I am today and I in that is not perfect by any stretch but I want I want
01:11:41.740to be the person that I wish was there for me and I say that's why I teach tarot for teens that's why
01:11:46.620I try to teach different practices like you don't need the crystal you don't need the thing but you
01:11:52.180need your brain in the sense of you need your own unique voice and you're the interpreter you know
01:12:00.080so I think the more we can kind of foster those kinds of dynamics within if we're holding space
01:12:06.800you know for others and the thing is you don't always have to be teaching forward consciously
01:12:11.920giving instruction I really am a firm believer in like your example you being a living testament
01:12:18.620to why it works is gives other people permission to do the same. I love your share so much. And
01:12:26.300just speaking to the pattern recognition, I know in my bio, I put that, I think that
01:12:33.680autism, excuse me, getting tongue tied, autism and ADHD, I put that they were kind of like my
01:12:41.400superpowers. And looking at some of the questions, in no way was it meant to romanticize, you know,
01:12:49.500these conditions, but I just do think of them as, you know, ways that like our brains are
01:12:56.520information super highways, and we make connections and see things in ways that people don't.
01:13:03.160And yeah, it's like, I teach a lot just in the way that I read tarot, like, I don't see how to
01:13:11.000separate explaining what the cards mean. And I think people pick up a lot, you know, of learning
01:13:18.120the tarot through that. But then also speaking to being truth tellers, I think there is an aspect
01:13:25.660of neurodivergence where, at least for myself, it's like I have no chill and no filter. And
01:13:33.440And sometimes I think I can be a little bit in your face with the way that I say things
01:13:40.320because it's that level of intensity that we bring, especially if, you know, in learning
01:13:47.600about my autism diagnosis, your special interests and how intense they are, just being able
01:13:57.980to channel that and say, you know, like, this means a lot to me. And, you know, like, I've been
01:14:05.920experiencing a lot in social media lately, where it's like pointing out the hypocrisy a little bit
01:14:13.400of people who say they want to show up for marginalized communities or people with disabilities
01:14:19.220and how punishing algorithms and things can be for creators who don't work consistently
01:14:27.800and push out content consistently because we're not made that way. But asking the communities
01:14:36.280who say they show up to support us, like, you know, this is the way that you can support me
01:14:42.060without donating a dime. You know, you can subscribe to my YouTube channel. You can share
01:14:48.100in your stories. You can share bookmark posts. Like these are little things that show, you know,
01:14:54.720your support and show that our voices are valuable. So it's like, I think I've been a
01:15:00.700little bit of a fly in the ointment and a pain in the ass. But I think that's really important is,0.99
01:15:08.500you know, being those, you know, those truth tellers, those, you know, people who really
01:15:14.520confront some of those hypocrisies that we're seeing where the most marginalized among us
01:15:21.240really do need to be lifted up the most in these times so just really been feeling that lately
01:15:27.760especially in this year where it's you know in numerology it's ruled by venus and you know it's
01:15:34.820meant to reflect our values and collaboration and uh just mutual support really coming from
01:15:42.080your place of truth i think that's important for us as neurodivergent people oh hi good afternoon
01:15:49.380I'm Tonya Mark Oviedo. I use the pronouns they, them. I'm on Tonga land, also known as Long Beach, California. And it's an honor to be here. And I just want to thank each one of you, the panelists for your shares. And as a curanderex, bruhex, and spiritual programmer that has switched gears from teaching high school of 20 years to, you know, retraining, refocusing my lens to being of service to my community and the collective.
01:16:19.380I would like to know, as a breathwork facilitator and as such, are there things that I can be doing in holding space for our community?
01:16:31.020And if so, could the panelists speak to are there ways in which, you know, I'm handling group or one-on-one work that would be more inclusive, loving, compassionate,
01:16:41.760uh whatever it is that would help to support the spaces um is kind of my question um each one of
01:16:50.680you have such beautiful magic to bring that i wish i could ask it individually but i understand
01:16:55.580on a group level i just you know thank you so much to each of you for sharing your magic and
01:17:01.260and it's so wonderful to be in such a transparent loving space for the last hour and a half of just
01:17:10.240being amongst like-minded community and i really appreciate that so if you could speak to how
01:17:16.360what tools could be added to spaces to support um that would be amazing and asha thank you so much
01:17:24.540thank you tanya mark thank you so much i've got a few kind of bits and pieces that i've found very
01:17:32.520helpful myself and i just wanted to bring in some terminology here which might be very useful for
01:17:37.620people so the first thing is um demand avoidance so when you are in a class and you get told to do
01:17:47.720something it's not even a rational logical it's it's an anxiety based response and so in classes
01:17:57.540it's often very helpful to to how you frame your language so i invite you to or giving a couple of
01:18:06.320options when you're setting up an exercise um so that that sense of impending anxiety and a need
01:18:17.140to avoid the demand is relieved from us um the other thing to be really aware of is um when
01:18:27.380giving any sort of feedback in a class situation many of us both on the autism spectrum but also
01:18:35.260with ADHD struggle with something called rejection sensitive dysphoria which means that
01:18:44.240if we perceive something that you're saying as in any way critical to us it feels like physical
01:18:52.800pain it is as though you are being stabbed in the guts there isn't an ability to logically say
01:19:01.100oh they're just trying to help me or they're trying to give me useful feedback or constructive
01:19:07.040criticism it goes straight into the nervous system straight into fight or flight and can lead
01:19:15.100to massive kind of reliving of trauma shut down need to escape which to the teacher or the
01:19:23.020facilitator can seem like an extreme response to I was just trying to help them I was just trying
01:19:28.300to give some useful feedback to how they were doing so they can learn and actually it is so
01:19:35.500triggering but to the outside it does seem just like so disproportionate to what has happened
01:19:40.780but I just need to speak from the inside of that which is that it is it is as though somebody has
01:19:48.800stabbed you i mean and your system goes into how do i keep myself safe now so those two things i
01:19:59.740would say are very helpful to understand when you're dealing with um neurodivergent folk um
01:20:06.620and also just as much as possible offering information in as many ways as possible so
01:20:12.400always having written as well as audio instruction invitations directions um as not just written but
01:20:23.960also photographic so that there are several ways that people can access and feel safe and that
01:20:30.200there are things that they can focus on when they might be experiencing high anxiety there is
01:20:37.700something that can anchor them back into the space in a way that feels safe so for many of us
01:20:44.520we are hyperlexic which means that we read as a way of stimming as a way to center and settle
01:20:52.980ourselves we will read every piece of information that we can in a room as a way of centering
01:20:59.440ourselves and so to be aware of of what you kind of share in the space because often the
01:21:05.960energy is too big the unknown is too big the unspoken is too big so if we can have somewhere
01:21:14.220where we can safely land that feels familiar that we can rest that might be kind of helping us to
01:21:20.660understand what is expected of us what is expected in this space um that can be extremely helpful
01:21:27.860thank you so much those are so concrete and useful we're going to be really loyal to our
01:21:35.380container that we've set um I want to I want to have all these conversations um more and in more
01:21:42.800depth with all of you but I also want to release you from this sensory overload um and want to
01:21:50.920kind of let us spin out from here but I'm so like I I feel so much hope from being here with you
01:22:00.520I do feel that same feeling that was expressed here that sometimes you can walk into a magical
01:22:10.080space and feel so at home and so safe and then suddenly there'll be something that jabs you out
01:22:18.920that makes you feel deeply like a piece of you isn't welcome and we're just trying really hard
01:22:26.880to learn from as many people as possible to make spaces that allow us to get to learn from you
01:22:34.460you are the people we've been missing so thank you for sharing yourselves with us when I woke
01:22:42.060up this morning I was half in a dream and these words were yelling in a circle in my head
01:22:48.620I think they were directed at JK Rowling but I'll share them with you here that our inclusion
01:22:55.820is an intention and it's a spell of protection
01:22:59.740trans women are here in our circle in our spell of protection which is the neurodivergent
01:23:10.160all of the marginalized people and races and religions our goal is to make a circle that0.71
01:23:19.900is a spell of protection and to just not fuck up too much on our journey of trying to make a better
01:23:25.540world we love you i was gonna read some maria sabina but instead and um you know because we've
01:23:34.820already gone over time and again you know we really want to respect the the framework that
01:23:39.480we laid out in the beginning um so i will just say you know it is safer and easier to be solitary
01:23:48.020but this is how we make the revolution is in community um so it might not be safe
01:23:56.180all the time but let's let's keep making these spaces that are let's keep making these spaces
01:24:02.960that are thank you all so much for your honesty and your transparency and for your advice and for
01:24:09.480your magic thank you so much you must be a witch
01:24:18.020the missing witches podcast is brought to you by the missing witches coven
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