Missing Witches - WF - Crossroads Are Portals Into Witchcraft： Kristin Lisenby and Kate Belew

00:00:00.320 We've been missing you. Do you want to find the witch friends you've been missing? Do you want 1.00

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00:00:30.420 witches patreon it's pay what you can and we can't wait to meet you there patreon.com 0.96

00:00:37.180 slash missing witches you aren't being a proper woman therefore you must be a witch 0.99

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00:00:46.720 amazing

00:00:49.500 so kate how are you feeling bud i'm okay it is it's the wavy the wavy train

00:00:58.580 yeah we heal in spirals not straight lines so we'll keep going around and around and around

00:01:05.020 the grief forever yeah yeah but you know it's I I feel like I'm also just like oh like when I

00:01:14.200 organize it in my head I'm like it could not have been a better passing you know I'm like we were

00:01:20.720 all there the days before the whole family everybody got to say goodbyes she was conscious

00:01:26.720 and awake and my dad her oldest son was holding her hand when she passed so and there was no pain

00:01:34.000 nothing so it it was it was like and on right on the spring equinox like almost to the hour

00:01:40.940 so just that's the way to go yeah yeah if I could choose yeah my uh my grandfather like

00:01:50.820 my father's father just kind of like closed his eyes and didn't open them one time and my father

00:01:56.340 always used to talk about how like that's like the best death you can have is just like

00:02:01.260 to go and then that's how he went you know we went to bed and he was alive and we got up and

00:02:06.740 he wasn't and he always said you know like that's what he wanted so we're grateful we're grateful

00:02:14.420 for easy passages for sure yeah yeah and like a reminder too of death like my dad and I were

00:02:21.520 speaking we're like oh sometimes just we go on living and we're so comfortable or whatever in

00:02:26.580 our life and then we forget about this like ultimate reality that we all share and so it's

00:02:32.340 nice to be able to have those conversations and like renew that relationship with that thing we're

00:02:38.180 all moving towards yes i mean let's let's put this in the podcast hi listeners you heard a brief chat

00:02:47.640 that you know we're gonna include because it's important yeah the moment the memento mori

00:02:53.980 the reminder of death you know it's it in our weird capitalist society we're meant to be

00:03:01.760 terrified but ultimately there is some comfort in it right yeah definitely yeah and and Joan

00:03:09.220 would want that celebrated so I keep reminding myself of that too like woman who rescued so

00:03:15.080 many dogs and lived so closely with that sort of like protective spirit like she just like also 1.00

00:03:21.400 just stoic librarian like take no shit celebration we love take no shit abuelas 1.00

00:03:30.560 oh my gosh i love a librarian i love a librarian on the other side just taking no shit 1.00

00:03:37.200 categorizing chain smoking crew cruising around in the ether 0.95

00:03:44.220 so we are here today with kate and kristin from magic and alchemy uh tamed wild podcast

00:03:52.920 and we're talking about this because um kate's grandmother joan just passed away and kate is

00:04:01.660 with her family now but has taken this break from her grief to sit with us and share that grief and

00:04:08.380 hopefully you know make it a little lighter today um thank you so much for coming to sit with us

00:04:15.500 even you know when you're going through it thank you and thank you for this space um when you were

00:04:22.980 like oh we cry in this podcast i was like great i only only speak on podcasts where we can cry

00:04:28.640 because absolutely because um you know i i found out that your grandmother had passed and so

00:04:36.700 obviously I was like mama like do you need to reschedule the conversation we're gonna have like

00:04:42.520 first thing in the morning tomorrow and we kind of decided that like talking is good and and I had

00:04:49.700 to reassure Kate that like FYI you know crying is totally allowed on the podcast I can't say we

00:04:55.440 encourage it because that seems a little like heavy hand you know trauma pornish but uh yeah

00:05:03.720 We definitely don't need anybody to stifle their tears.

00:05:06.800 How are you doing, Kristen?

00:05:07.980 I'm doing well.

00:05:09.320 Thank you.

00:05:10.480 I was just thinking about crying in your podcast because some of your favorite episodes are

00:05:16.280 ones where everyone cries, honestly, like they're just so emotional and they're so touching.

00:05:21.120 So yeah, tears always welcome.

00:05:24.140 Tears always welcome.

00:05:25.580 And I like to tell all my friends when they're like, oh, I don't want to cry or whatever.

00:05:29.360 remind everyone all the time. And I've said it on the podcast a hundred times that

00:05:33.140 shedding tears is your body's way of releasing stress hormones. It's literally taking the stress

00:05:40.220 that's in your body and getting it out of your body. It's a perfectly natural and super beneficial

00:05:46.200 tactic that our bodies use to relieve stress. So why would we try to take that power away from

00:05:52.140 ourselves or from each other? You know, like let's. And it feels good, right? Like you always feel

00:05:58.120 better after a good cry yeah it's a shedding it's a shedding of skins too right it's like 1.00

00:06:04.500 which like for this sort of snaky time of year this like birchbark time of year too it's like 0.91

00:06:09.860 well how are we shedding I was gonna actually ask you because I've been thinking about this so much

00:06:15.480 I think for so many witches there is a moment that in their lives that is an encounter with death

00:06:21.320 that is like an awakening whether it's an encounter with their own death or there's like 0.99

00:06:26.400 and it could be a literal death or like a figurative like holy shit I have to turn my 0.99

00:06:30.700 whole fucking life upside down and rip off this skin and be somebody new or I'm gonna die 1.00

00:06:35.860 emotionally or physically I see you both nodding so you know what the fuck I'm talking about do 1.00

00:06:42.860 you have do you have that story that that like which origin story 0.97

00:06:47.080 man I'm just thinking I don't know if this is exactly what you're talking about but you know

00:06:55.200 my mom was diagnosed with breast cancer when I was like 24 and my mom is

00:07:00.180 perfectly fine. Like she, you know,

00:07:02.220 did radiation and she's healthy and happy. But at that moment,

00:07:06.320 I think it was like the thought that death could possibly touch me,

00:07:11.580 which was like a moment where I completely just kind of changed my life a

00:07:17.560 little bit. And, you know,

00:07:19.580 like eating habits and just these patterns you have that maybe aren't the

00:07:24.680 healthiest, but you're young. And so you're like, oh, it's fine. And so that was definitely an

00:07:30.460 awakening for me. And it was really scary, but I'm so, so grateful for it. It's like a crossroads,

00:07:37.500 you know, when you're faced with something like that.

00:07:43.560 I love that word crossroads so much for that space. I feel like for me, it was my grandma Lucy

00:07:51.280 passed when i was eight or nine and i'd been living at her house in the summer and then lived

00:07:58.260 down the street and um i feel like that was the first time where i was like oh yeah like this is

00:08:04.880 this is the thing i don't know i have pluto on my ascendant too so i just feel like i just keep

00:08:10.120 keep dying and keep becoming different and so it's kind of just it's been that

00:08:15.480 wheel my whole my whole life so keeping on the crossroads theme um how did you two

00:08:24.860 cross paths how did you meet i mean i know one of you is in new york and the other is in portugal

00:08:30.600 right now um how did you get together how did you start your podcast how did you who wants to tell

00:08:37.560 the story, Kate? Maybe I'll start and then you finish. I was working as a marketing director

00:08:47.140 for a company here in Manhattan. And one day the CEO was like, Kate, we need crystal gritting

00:08:54.400 content on the blog. And I was like, okay, fine. I don't know anybody who does that. And so he was

00:09:01.120 like, well, just email this person, this Shelby person, she'll know. And I was like, okay, cool.

00:09:07.060 So I just cold emailed this woman who I'd never met and she was like, oh, funny you ask. I actually don't do writing like that, but you should meet my friend Kristen. And so I reached out to Kristen and I was like, do you write about crystal grids? And she was like, yeah, actually I can do that.

00:09:24.960 So we, we just sort of became pen pals through the work and was, I was so excited when I left

00:09:32.920 that work and then maybe the podcast part, Kristen. Yeah. So Shelby for someone, anyone who doesn't

00:09:43.380 know is the owner creator of Tamed Wild who owns the magic and alchemy podcast. And so, yeah,

00:09:50.360 so Kate and I got connected that way and I only did a little bit of writing for the company

00:09:54.560 that Kate was doing marketing for, but we just kind of remained friends, you know,

00:09:59.320 which web. And one day Shelby came to me cause I do writing on her blog as well and said, Hey,

00:10:06.880 I want to create a podcast, you know, about mythology and witchcraft. Do you want to do it?

00:10:12.040 And, you know, Taurus moon, like my first thing is no, like I'm a writer. I'm not a public speaker.

00:10:17.580 I can't do a podcast, but I kind of sat with it and I was like, I think I'm ready for something

00:10:23.160 different. But I told Shelby, I can't do this on my own. I don't want to do this on my own. I need

00:10:28.380 a partner. And she said, okay, well, who do you want as a partner? And right away, Kate was the

00:10:34.280 person I thought of because I saw her as somebody doing the work already. She was a witch. She was 0.99

00:10:41.540 a writer. She was very passionate about all of these subjects. And so I asked her if she wanted

00:10:47.660 to co-host a magic and alchemy podcast with me and luckily she agreed and the rest is history

00:10:55.220 we've never met in real life so have you been in Portugal this whole time that you have been

00:11:03.100 okay so maybe maybe let's get to that then like what what are you doing in Portugal what's

00:11:09.160 happening okay so I started working for Tamed Wild about five years ago um and but it had always been

00:11:17.140 like this goal to move to the Azores my husband and I boyfriend at the time came here on vacation

00:11:24.080 and um we'd been trying to buy a house in California on the central coast which is so

00:11:30.340 expensive um even for people who have you know quote like good jobs it's um you know involves

00:11:37.840 getting into debt hundreds of thousands of dollars and then we came here and at the time the uh

00:11:43.700 housing market wasn't very strong. And some of Eric's family members, because his parents were

00:11:48.780 born and raised here in the Azores, were trying to sell an old fixer upper farmhouse, which is

00:11:55.200 exactly what we wanted. And so we kind of just looked at each other and we're like,

00:12:01.940 you want to buy this house? Like, you want to do this? And here we are. And luckily,

00:12:07.860 Shelby was so generous. And she was like, I would still love for you to work for, you know,

00:12:12.400 tamed wild the company and i took on more of a creative role whereas when i was there i was

00:12:17.200 doing more like operations type stuff and i've been here for four years now which is crazy to

00:12:23.200 think about time flies you have to see pictures of this place it's amazing and there's goats and

00:12:34.780 the ocean and yeah the photos are just like moss so much moss yeah the goat the goats are the big

00:12:43.540 jealousy trigger for me of course well you're welcome to come um and babysit goat sit anytime

00:12:51.020 because they're a handful um but yes this place is a paradise and I'm so grateful to be here

00:12:57.140 um yeah if you look at pictures it's so green but you know it is an island so it comes with

00:13:03.060 its challenges it's definitely different than a mainland but I love it here so for witches or

00:13:11.000 practitioners or humans listening who uh who feel that like call to you know flip the tables of

00:13:20.120 their life and like go to the place that looks like their dreams what will you say

00:13:26.200 well i'm gonna say go for it right um like kate i have pluto in my first house so it's like all

00:13:34.160 life is like burning it down and then like building it back up again and i feel like i've

00:13:38.600 been doing that my whole life um so setting down roots somewhere has been really new for me i feel

00:13:44.040 like this is the first place i've ever actually set roots um but i mean it involves planning like

00:13:49.860 i would never tell anyone like oh you know sell all your possessions and move somewhere it does

00:13:56.100 take planning. I mean, I would, but I think yes, do it. I need some neighbors guys. There's a lot

00:14:06.140 of abandoned houses here just waiting for you. Um, but yeah, I mean, it takes, it's, it, it's

00:14:13.560 definitely, um, a leap of faith, but I think it's also really fulfilling and it shows you

00:14:19.320 you're quite capable of doing. I don't want to say anything you want to do. Like we've had a

00:14:24.880 lot of support and I have my partner here to support me when I'm freaking out, like wanting

00:14:29.840 to go home, he calms me down and vice versa. But I mean, I think getting out of your comfort zone

00:14:36.840 and doing things that you've never done before are so important to figuring out who you are

00:14:42.900 and what you're capable of. I just need to find the witches over here. I haven't found any Azorian

00:14:49.880 witches yet still looking, but I know they're here. Yeah. There's no way there aren't some 0.95

00:14:56.180 old witches, even if they don't call themselves that, you know, with their like herbalism and

00:15:01.600 their little practices. I want to know what both of your practices look like, because we talk to

00:15:10.300 so many different kinds of witches. We talk to kitchen witches and diviners and, you know, poets

00:15:16.040 who all identify as witch but their versions of witchcraft are so completely different maybe

00:15:21.960 we'll start with Kate like how does being a witch manifest in your life and if you don't know how

00:15:27.860 to answer that question right away then maybe like what's your number one tool of witchcraft

00:15:32.920 is it tarot cards is it you know plants etc poetry it was definitely the portal into witchcraft

00:15:41.900 um my mom tells a story about me being like four years old and sitting her down and making her

00:15:48.400 transcribe my poetry to her because I couldn't write yet so I was like write down my poems mom

00:15:53.680 and she has all of these and so like Emily Dickinson I know Emily Dickinson was like probably

00:16:05.040 the first kind of witch I met by way of like the spell book of the dictionary like my dad had me

00:16:12.160 have like the full giant dictionary and we would read Emily Dickinson when I was like 10 and if I

00:16:18.140 didn't know the word then we would go look it up and that was the that was the sort of practice

00:16:22.880 and you know poetry I definitely went through the phase of my teenage years where I was like

00:16:29.400 this isn't for me like just rage against the possibility of things because I couldn't believe

00:16:35.800 that it was possible or that it was allowed or like a life um repeat that last phrase

00:16:42.240 that you were like angry at the notion of possibility because it didn't I feel like that

00:16:47.940 like it's probably so true of so many people outside of our community that it's like

00:16:53.360 yeah yeah it just being kind of like so i i couldn't get my head around that poet or poetry

00:17:01.760 was like a real thing that like could be uh dedicated a life to like it was too too easy

00:17:08.820 too magical too um knowing and and so i rejected all of that because i was just like nope like

00:17:16.080 it's not a real it's not a quote-unquote real job i have to be a lawyer or something

00:17:21.380 find some way to like make words be a different sort of perhaps justice or medicine or something

00:17:28.660 and then you know I got um I moved out of my my and my parents were always like you can be a poet

00:17:35.000 but I didn't want to listen to them either and um I got to school at Kalamazoo College and I met

00:17:41.140 Diane Seuss who's an amazing an amazing poet in person and I told her I was going to be a lawyer

00:17:48.340 and she like laughed at me she's got like fish bones hanging in her office and she was just like

00:17:52.660 what no so she kind of like took me under her wing and like helped me helped me go back into

00:18:00.480 poetry and now I've gotten my master's degree in poetry and have just kind of dedicated

00:18:05.320 a life to that but that that's kind of the cornerstone of my magical practice

00:18:10.880 how about you Kristen I'm definitely a word witch I would say I've been writing stories since I

00:18:21.380 for as long as I can remember as a kid like had a million notebooks of you know stories that

00:18:26.500 were probably like poorly plagiarized things of like what I was reading as a time at the time

00:18:32.740 like as a kid like trying to figure out how to become a storyteller you know um but beyond that

00:18:38.600 Like I'm, I want to say I'm a plant, which, but I think I'm more of like a dirt, which

00:18:43.600 maybe like, I love the soil.

00:18:46.200 I love putting my hands in the dirt, love being barefoot.

00:18:51.400 This past week has, I've just been in the greenhouse.

00:18:54.280 I feel like almost every day it's been, you know, like seed spells and just planting all

00:19:00.660 the things.

00:19:01.300 Like, it just feels like what I was meant to do, like almost as like some type of like

00:19:07.280 guardian in like a small small way um and it just feels like a gift to be able to work

00:19:15.040 with the soil um it feels like what my ancestors did and yeah I just love it it's hard to explain

00:19:23.900 maybe I think you guys probably relate to this as well I've seen on your Instagram some dirty

00:19:30.260 gardening hands and that's my favorite like I'll never have my nails done like I'm proud of these

00:19:36.500 gardening nails um but yeah definitely a dirt witch word witch um you said that's my altar

00:19:44.100 you said seed spells um is the seed spell just like taking the seed and putting it in the dirt

00:19:50.280 and watering it or do you have like a like a praxis around that you know as I get older my

00:19:57.600 spells are so so much simpler than they were at one time and I think just speaking to plants

00:20:04.800 speaking to the soil speaking to the seeds um you know the act of planting them of course is

00:20:09.800 really important as well but I think what I love about seed spells is that it does encourage me

00:20:15.780 to speak to the plants more um I think so often we expect answers or we have all these questions

00:20:24.820 but we don't really ask the questions and I was telling Kate the other day um there's you know

00:20:33.940 as a, as a fellow plant, which I felt like she would appreciate the story, but I was doing an

00:20:37.740 automatic writing session, a channeled writing in the greenhouse, which is my favorite place to

00:20:42.440 write. And, um, you know, whoever I was talking to, I was asking about my guides and they were

00:20:49.880 like, do you know why you love dirt so much? And I said, no, why? And they said, well, because one

00:20:57.180 of your guides is a tree. And I said, Oh, okay. Um, that's amazing. I don't know what kind of tree.

00:21:05.920 Um, but I think that in itself is so magical. Like that is magic. Like that's, that to me is,

00:21:14.060 I don't know, just that as a seed spell, you know, that's a story I can share with somebody.

00:21:19.860 So it's not always like an actual physical seed. Um, but sometimes it is.

00:21:27.180 do you have time other times in your life where you're like you're looking back and you're like

00:21:32.900 oh that moment of feeling magic I would now put in the language of like recognizing a guy

00:21:40.500 I I have that for sure absolutely and I think for me like I really didn't consider

00:21:49.280 myself a witch like I know Kate has been a witch since childhood she was born a witch but I feel

00:21:55.300 Like I've always been practicing magic, but never would have considered myself a witch.

00:22:01.400 So I would write these things and I would go into these meditations and I would potentially

00:22:07.180 be talking with someone, but I just felt like it was magic.

00:22:10.400 I never was like, oh, this is witchcraft.

00:22:14.300 You know, this is specifically like a guide or someone who's helping me along the way.

00:22:19.880 but yeah absolutely looking back on it it's you know what do they say hindsight's 2020

00:22:26.280 yeah how about you Kate I think my first guides were fairies um my sister and I we had a like a

00:22:37.060 dedicated fairy garden where we would build houses and like dig up pools if there was thunderstorms

00:22:43.060 we would make like bomb shelters for them in the summer so it was elaborate but um we would write

00:22:49.780 and leave letters under rocks for them and my mom would actually respond pretending to be fairies

00:22:56.400 and so we had um Lily and Buttercup were like their names but we um would often you know invite

00:23:05.360 them inside build little altars take them to school in like decorated jewelry boxes we'd be

00:23:11.460 like there's fairies in here and so um yeah fairies were definitely I wouldn't have called

00:23:17.320 them guides I would have been like these are my friends isn't it amazing but um yeah definitely 1.00

00:23:22.700 the fae and how do you access a guide for our listeners who are like where the fuck is my guide

00:23:29.240 how do you access that voice 0.81

00:23:31.340 I feel like for me it's just been kind of on accident and then also just listening um and I

00:23:44.520 think that Kristen mentioned channeled writing earlier that's been hugely helpful for me um in

00:23:50.620 accessing those voices and those guides um which if if any listeners don't know how to do that the

00:23:57.160 way that I do it is I usually set a timer pull out um a journal kind of get grounded in my space

00:24:03.740 and then sometimes I'll either put up like a picture or like Leonardo Carrington I like love

00:24:09.960 to do channel writing with but um yeah and then kind of like set an intention and then maybe an

00:24:16.660 anchor phrase for myself too so like if I'm trying to connect with a guide I might be like guides I'm

00:24:21.780 listening or um I have this question or whatever I'm kind of trying to create that relationship

00:24:29.360 with and then anytime I don't have a thing that's coming up I just rewrite that anchor phrase until

00:24:35.540 something else comes through and just trying not to like judge the words or like try to make sense

00:24:41.140 of them until much later and just until that timer goes off and then coming back and closing that

00:24:47.440 space and kristin is your like physical practice of it the same yeah i would say pretty similar

00:24:57.340 to channeled writing um to like what kate described very similar um i also love to meet

00:25:03.640 guides in dreams. If anyone is an active dreamer or a lucid dreamer, which I have been my whole

00:25:11.500 life long before I knew what lucid dreams were, but I love to set an intention before going to

00:25:18.040 bed at night because in my experience, guides or we'll just say guides will come visit you

00:25:24.940 in your dreams. And if you're able to become lucid in the process, there's a lot of magic

00:25:31.640 there there's a lot of answers there's a lot of exploring that can be done in a way that is

00:25:36.640 different um in my opinion than channeled writing has a bit more of a magical sense to it because

00:25:43.620 the dream world is so magical and so disjointed and special so yeah what about animal guides do

00:25:55.960 you have that feeling i feel like looking back in childhood there was like animals that were like

00:26:00.880 in technicolor or like you know like there there were moments where like I met or I ran into or I

00:26:06.980 connected with an idea similar like falling in love with a writer where it was like reading

00:26:12.060 reading you know we're all actually lit undergrads I think here so reading reading wonderful love to

00:26:17.760 get to read what a pleasure to be immersed in all these novels and then like whoa like that writer

00:26:24.260 walked through me in in many colors like that just changed who I am or lit up a part of myself

00:26:32.900 and I I had moments like that meeting animals too where it was like you're in the zoo animals are

00:26:38.140 awesome zoos are depressing this is a weird experience and then like you know I can't leave

00:26:44.560 the polar bear for the next three hours and I'm crying like I don't know what happened to me but

00:26:48.980 like something just do you know what I'm talking about I feel like you do absolutely yeah yeah I

00:26:56.340 well I think dogs being one of them just like I have Banjo who like is not great at podcasting so

00:27:03.340 he has to stay over there but um um and my grandma Joan who we were speaking about earlier would

00:27:08.520 rescue dogs so she would drive around to kill shelters and adopt the dogs and then rehome them

00:27:14.820 um and so there was like a rotating cast of dogs that we were all obsessed with and then unicorns

00:27:21.640 were like oh my god when i discovered this i could i have not been the same since and then

00:27:27.740 there was um my friend my best friend and i growing up we invented avalon we thought we

00:27:33.680 invented avalon up behind the house in the woods and so that was where she had a kangaroo and then

00:27:39.980 I had a cat with wings and they would like live together and wait up there for us so after school

00:27:44.700 we would go and we'd be like okay the cat with wings and the kangaroo we have to call to them 0.96

00:27:48.260 and then Morgan Le Fay and then we're gonna do our witchy shit and like make 0.98

00:27:53.280 motorcycle sound um make you know mud potions or whatever 0.95

00:28:01.240 how old were you when you were doing that Avalon Avalon was probably um

00:28:11.100 sixth sixth grade I texted Jules not too long ago and I was like did we say goodbye like what

00:28:18.400 is it still happening oh Avalon is still there there's no question in my mind

00:28:25.340 but i just love this like nonchalant imagination of childhood before you know we we sort of have

00:28:34.480 our society that wants to drain us of it and you know was it diane de primarisa who said

00:28:40.180 the war is the war against imagination something like that the war is the war of the human

00:28:45.600 imagination the war is the war for the human right and and i guess it's just like living in

00:28:52.960 society that sort of drains us of that Kristen like do you see your quote-unquote witchcraft

00:28:59.920 I know you use the term magic as opposed to witchcraft so interchangeable let's say

00:29:04.200 um like it how your imagination works

00:29:09.040 oh I love that question um I don't know if this is exactly what you're asking but you know when

00:29:20.700 was talking about as like a child, like these adventures she was going on. It's just, it's so

00:29:27.120 nostalgic. And I feel like as a witch, as a magic maker, nostalgia is an emotion that I use

00:29:33.960 in my craft, that I use in my rituals, that I use in the work I create in the world. I think that's

00:29:41.860 so potent. I don't know. I was talking to my husband the other day and I was like, nostalgia

00:29:48.660 is so interesting because it's something that only exists in the future, right? Like when you're

00:29:53.860 a child, like you have no concept of nostalgia, like things are just what they are. Everything's

00:29:59.560 new. And then as you get older, you start getting really nostalgic for these things of your

00:30:03.520 childhood, which I've been feeling like very nostalgic lately, which is probably like

00:30:08.220 a bit of homesickness too. But yeah, I just can't, I just can't get enough of it.

00:30:15.140 um, I love it. I don't know if you guys use nostalgia in your craft, but I feel like

00:30:21.460 it's been one of the most like powerful things that I've connected with in the magic world.

00:30:27.680 I, I definitely consider myself, like if I had to choose one gun to your head kind of thing,

00:30:32.780 like I would call myself a sonic witch, a music witch. And obviously like nostalgia and music are,

00:30:39.280 you know they're joined at the hip I they're ostensibly terrible songs that I love they're in

00:30:46.700 my top 100 and I can't explain like they're bad songs they're just they're poorly written and

00:30:52.700 they're poorly performed and they're just nothing but I love them and it's for that exact reason

00:30:57.740 that they access some you know beautiful happy sad whatever part of me that and these songs are

00:31:06.700 like these tiny keys for these tiny locks that are like inside my my heart and my brain so

00:31:12.520 consciously no but musically definitely nostalgia plays a huge role in an example of one of the

00:31:20.320 horrible magical songs oh god I have a I have a side story about this but you're gonna have to

00:31:27.880 remind me what this song was but it was so funny so I only took my I've taken my driving test

00:31:34.620 multiple times but i will be past it this year i'm 42 uh i bought a house an hour and a half 0.51

00:31:40.900 north of the city in the middle of the fucking woods before i could drive uh anyway whatever 0.87

00:31:45.720 i know what song you're gonna bring up okay good so i'm a magical singer in the best and worst 0.93

00:31:52.020 uh ways um but uh but and amy was like the only person i told i was going to do my test because

00:31:59.160 I didn't want a lot of pressure you know but I practiced a lot I've been driving a lot I wore

00:32:04.860 this t-shirt she'd given me like 15 years before when I walked out on a 10-year relationship 0.97

00:32:10.300 it says that let the good times roll and it's like tight and yellow and shit I wore that shirt 0.89

00:32:15.600 and then and then she sent me a song and she's like you have to play this and so my I had a 0.99

00:32:21.080 personal dance party to it and then a whole family dance party to it and then fucking rock the test 0.93

00:32:25.400 and pass and the song was gonna be your man in motion all i need is a pair of wheels i mean 0.98

00:32:33.580 probably most of the people listening will have no fucking clue what i'm talking about speaking 0.98

00:32:38.780 of nostalgia but yeah it was like the theme song from saint elbos fire but it was also um oh shit 0.95

00:32:46.200 risa what was his name the um and you two aren't canadian so you won't know rick hansen rick hansen

00:32:53.840 he was like somebody who was I believe paraplegic and he did the sort of Terry Fox kind of thing 0.91

00:33:00.320 again you're not Canadian fuck um so Terry Fox was someone who was an amputee and he 0.95

00:33:08.340 you know ran across Canada to raise money and then many years later Rick Hansen 0.99

00:33:13.300 went across Canada in his wheelchair very magical very wonderful the man in motion world tour

00:33:21.120 that's his theme song i guess for lack of a better word was this uh this and i will tell you

00:33:29.720 for some reason this song gets me jacked up like if i need something that i don't want to do

00:33:37.400 i put on a little man in motion and i'm like i i got this take me where the eagle's flying

00:33:44.740 nobody knows the lyrics so i can nobody will know what i'm talking about you know what i'm

00:33:52.160 turning on after we close out this conversation i'm making notes right now yeah yeah man in motion

00:33:58.140 is the name of the song and i can't even think i'm saying it but yeah they're they're hunt

00:34:03.460 terrible terrible songs like um like uh jason derulo

00:34:07.960 like the first time I heard

00:34:14.100 moves like dagger I heard it on I was in a car and I heard on the radio and I was like

00:34:22.760 this is awful I was like talking to my friend who was driving I was like is that Christina

00:34:27.760 Aguilera like what is she doing on this song this song is awful and then I got home and my brain was

00:34:33.100 like and so I went and I looked at is there like a producer on this song that like is and no like

00:34:40.940 the producer had produced like a bunch of horrible also songs but there are just some things and I

00:34:46.360 think you know that's as much magic as anything else that something whether it's a polar bear

00:34:51.360 or I've had this experience a lot where like a piece of art in an art gallery you know and you

00:34:57.540 just see it and you're like much like the polar bear you're like I'm just gonna stand in front of

00:35:01.520 this painting for the next 20 minutes you know and so I sort of got over that whole cool music

00:35:08.660 thing when I was about 15 I was like you know what I was always too punk for my hippie friends

00:35:15.200 too hippie for my punk friends too into disco for any of them to tolerate

00:35:20.180 um but yeah that's sonic witchcraft you know okay Emily Dickinson oh go ahead no go I want

00:35:30.320 she said that she knew a poem um was a poem when the top of her head felt like it was taken off

00:35:36.740 but I feel like it's like with any of those things like the animal or the art it's like you know

00:35:41.740 when you feel like your top of your head is just gone 0.53

00:35:44.280 fuck yes totally totally and that I mean we've been talking it's come up in so many interviews 0.98

00:35:53.060 is that the description of what magic is as being the like crossing point on the mobius strip or the 0.99

00:36:02.580 or in the moment where roburus eats its tail or spits out the future or like that that moment in

00:36:08.420 the where the loop twists before the you know where the binaries interact and there's like that

00:36:12.860 really fertile moment where like that is the present where something new can happen and that

00:36:17.660 is that feeling to me where it's like we're we're sort of smeared across time and then suddenly you're

00:36:23.020 like whacked in the present where anything truly something new can happen okay so that is like a

00:36:30.760 casual segue to the question I was gonna ask um what's your most successful piece of magic 0.96

00:36:36.560 what's a spell where you're like looking back you're like oh I've fucking worked

00:36:39.940 I wore a yellow shirt and dance to man in motion that's one of my one of my many

00:36:46.640 oh that's such a good question oh I know I got a message from an old writer friend when I was

00:36:57.180 living in Detroit working doing global communications for Ford Auto I was like my

00:37:03.180 brain was melting and he just messaged me and said are you bored and I looked back and I said yes

00:37:09.340 yes and so that yes was like the biggest spell it like uh cattle was the catalyst for like moving 0.89

00:37:15.360 to New York city, all of it, but yeah, saying yes to the, I'm, I'm fucking bored.

00:37:22.840 Yes. I remember when I was probably in my early twenties, you know, playing with magic,

00:37:31.120 but not considering myself a witch. And at that point, a lot of my magical practice was meditating

00:37:37.800 and just writing down the things I wanted and focusing on them every day, a couple of times a

00:37:43.080 day, um, you know, five, 10 minute meditations, if that's all I had. And, um, I was kind of

00:37:50.240 playing with it. Like I wasn't, you know, I wasn't trying to do anything great, but at the time I

00:37:57.680 said, I just want to test this. And so I said, let's pick a, let's pick a number. I want to make

00:38:03.720 $5,000. And I don't remember why I wanted $5,000. Like maybe I needed a new computer or I don't

00:38:09.180 know what I needed. Um, but I was also just, like I said, playing. And so every day for about a month,

00:38:16.060 I meditated on that and I wrote it down and I thought about it and it was always in my mind.

00:38:20.980 And I got my $5,000, but of course, never in the way you think, um, it involves me.

00:38:27.780 It wasn't like a monkey's paw kind of situation. Not quite. Um, it was like, you know, I got in

00:38:35.860 a car accident, like a drunk driver hit my car. Um, and no, everyone was fine. Like it wasn't an

00:38:40.560 issue, um, had car insurance, the car insurance company paid me out for my car, which oddly enough,

00:38:45.800 I had just bought a month prior. So I'd only made one car payment on this car. Um, and when the

00:38:53.620 insurance company sent me the check, they sent me a check that was $5,000, almost to the dollar

00:38:59.240 over what I owed on the car. And so I called my insurance company and I was like, I think you

00:39:04.580 made a mistake. You paid me $5,000 more than I needed. And they were like, Oh no, that's,

00:39:09.960 it's correct. Like your car, um, you know, that is valued higher than what you paid for it. And

00:39:16.560 so you get the value of what it's worth, not what you paid for it. And I was like, Oh my gosh,

00:39:22.020 this stuff. Um, and so that was definitely like a moment where I was like, magic is real. Um,

00:39:31.580 You know, but it does take energy and time. And of course, people are like, well, if it's that easy, why don't you do it for everything? But, you know, it is energetically taxing in some ways, but it's still a good story.

00:39:45.780 it's it's hard to control like you know you you well I'll just use the word prayed you you prayed

00:39:52.400 for this five thousand dollars but you know the fates took your car you never really know like

00:40:00.540 what am I going to be expected to sacrifice sometimes is is a major question that's something

00:40:06.260 that's happened in my life you make these kind of deals with God for lack of a better term deals

00:40:11.040 with, you know, you make a deal with God, but I think in lyrics, that's Kate Bush.

00:40:20.100 But you make these deals with God and you're not really sure how they're going to manifest, right?

00:40:27.580 Just be careful what you wish for. Yes. It's like, you know, you have to be so clear about

00:40:35.840 your intentions right otherwise you can wish for something and you may get it but you know like you

00:40:41.780 said at what cost or in what way are you going to get it and what are you going to have to sacrifice

00:40:45.660 to get that so yeah definitely it makes you think about think about your intentions a lot

00:40:51.760 yeah the altar of new york city expects a lot of sacrifice

00:40:56.600 hey did you ever read the slaves of new york by tamma genowitz no but i'm writing it down yeah

00:41:05.660 that's like that's the idea is like that you have to grind so much that it's essentially like

00:41:12.160 slavery but you know with with perks because no one who's living and working there is actually

00:41:18.980 like making enough money to thrive because it's so yeah but it's magical yes

00:41:26.060 i and let's talk about that a little we've got a city witch and a country witch can you talk about

00:41:32.820 like city witchcraft and how how you manifest under the the bright lights and then Kristen

00:41:39.340 how you manifest under like the dark sky with the sparkling stars yeah um pre-pandemic I used to have

00:41:48.600 uh full moon parties where like 30 people would come over and everybody would dress in like all

00:41:55.320 white or all black and we would do some sort of witchery in the little like backyard here that

00:42:01.620 all the neighbors like would come and look and they'd be like are you guys witches is that where 0.95

00:42:06.640 the rat coliseum is it is where the rat and also i meant to tell you all we now have a uh a rat 0.85

00:42:11.940 wine cellar um there was someone was doing construction i'm gonna vomit i'm gonna vomit

00:42:18.480 so i'll just mute someone was doing construction on the back and dropped something that cracked

00:42:26.060 the cement into the backyard and so now the ground is open and we found all of these additional

00:42:31.320 rat passages and so Cody and I are like it's it's the wine cellar for the rat coliseum but

00:42:38.520 it is a beautiful backyard and in the summer there's all of this ivy um situation but I

00:42:45.280 remember one ritual we had where I made everybody bring an egg with them and we charged these eggs

00:42:53.340 with anything that we were like releasing at that moon and went out into this busy intersection

00:42:58.000 and made a giant circle around the intersection and smashed the eggs into the street alt collectively

00:43:05.380 and screamed and it was like the cool thing about New York is like nobody cares like

00:43:10.420 when I was dealing with my grandma I was just crying against a tree like before deciding to

00:43:17.280 go back to Michigan just in the park and it's just like it just keeps moving and just takes

00:43:22.240 that energy and just, you know, and that's kind of like the magic of the place. But there's two

00:43:28.380 beautiful parks right here, McCarran and McGorlick Park, and they both have their own sort of magic

00:43:35.360 and the cherry blossoms in the spring, like along the rivers, it's just in cherry and herbalism,

00:43:41.820 just such joy medicine, you know, for grief. And so I feel like it's not an accident that they're

00:43:50.200 all all here for all of us in the spring you know I love asking Kate what a city witch does

00:43:59.760 because I feel like so many of like the you know um the sabbats or just the the rituals it's like

00:44:08.660 they're very agricultural very seasonal and I'm always so curious like how Kate or any city witch

00:44:16.420 is able to kind of mirror that energy when you are so far removed from you know I guess I want

00:44:25.780 to say the land because of course you're connected to the land there although the relationship is

00:44:29.900 is quite different it does I mean the land here though does feel like if you were to strip back

00:44:36.180 all of it I mean it is sacred sacred land and like I think it's so interesting like Broadway

00:44:43.160 was like an indigenous community and trail prior to it being like the Mecca of capitalism in

00:44:50.400 Manhattan but like there is a texture to I feel like too I'm lucky because I grew up in rural

00:44:57.780 southwest Michigan so I feel like I like learned that and then moved here so it's easier to like

00:45:03.360 work your way back I'm curious to like witches who are born in New York City send me a message

00:45:08.800 I want to hear about it but um that does help I'm also one of those kind of like I I see dead

00:45:15.580 people which is so that's always interesting because there's so many so many uh here in New

00:45:21.560 York and they're definitely chatty uh please please expand well when I first moved in here

00:45:29.700 there there was this ghost that would show up when I was cooking all the time and he would wear a

00:45:34.060 white t-shirt and I liked him because he was keeping me company through a breakup and like

00:45:38.380 I thought he was hungry to like to show up always when I'm making food. And I was just like, okay,

00:45:44.220 this is fine. And so I would like leave a little bit out for him or say hi or whatever. I was just

00:45:49.660 like, don't come when I'm asleep. Like that's kind of my boundary here. And eventually he kind of

00:45:54.720 broke that, I think got too comfortable. So I had to send him on his way, but other, I had another

00:46:00.720 friend see him and I hadn't even told her about it. We had a friend here for a funeral staying in

00:46:06.560 this room and Dom and I were sitting over there and she was like that's so weird I thought Cal

00:46:12.760 just got out of bed but um he wasn't wearing a white t-shirt was he I was like it's him

00:46:19.480 so things like that um I mean if you think about New York like

00:46:24.340 it's just people on top of people and so many so many past lives and spirits

00:46:32.260 yeah a little different than i guess here in the country but also similar i suppose in some ways

00:46:44.440 um i guess for me it's like living in the country i don't know if you guys relate i know you live in

00:46:51.880 the woods but it's like a practice in stillness and getting comfortable in solitude which is

00:46:58.520 something which is always talk about right but it's really challenging to do but I think the

00:47:04.780 country at least for me gives me an opportunity to do that because when I lived in California and

00:47:10.640 I lived in San Luis Obispo it's beautiful I love it there but there are so many distractions and

00:47:17.060 you do have to maybe have jobs you dislike and stuff because you have these enormous bills and

00:47:25.520 rent and everything. So, um, you know, being a cottage, which, or a country, which where I have

00:47:31.520 a little bit more time to be by myself, I think is like a gift, but also a test in my willpower

00:47:40.400 because there's so much magic that lies in stillness as long as we're willing to go there.

00:47:49.480 Um, I don't know. Did you guys experience that when you moved to the woods? Like it was just

00:47:54.600 And the stillness is almost like, or the silence is almost like deafening sometimes.

00:48:03.140 Yeah, I can say that like the first night I spent in my house in the woods was very alone.

00:48:10.320 The first night I spent alone in my house in the woods.

00:48:13.780 It was freaky because I could hear things, you know, like when you're in the city, it's just sort of like a wall of sound.

00:48:22.980 it's like a constant cacophony but when you're like in the deep quiet of the woods like your

00:48:29.180 refrigerator makes a noise and you sit both up right you're like that was a noise I heard a

00:48:34.720 noise there was a noise where noise ought not be and so that that was the part that that definitely

00:48:41.620 took some getting used to but again it's like to me the the spaces are equally sacred like when

00:48:49.040 I'm in the woods, like, you know, trees are sacred spaces and creeks and lakes. And when I'm in the city, it's like, you know, art galleries and cafes and, you know, show venues. Those are my sacred spaces. So for me, it's like the sacredness is equal, but the practicing of that sacredness is very different.

00:49:13.160 yeah I think I was reintroduced to the moon living here too of course the sky is everywhere

00:49:20.940 right but here I feel like the moon is so blinding and so enormous it's like you can't even look at

00:49:31.420 it at nighttime and I think I was used to California there's like this permanent haze

00:49:34.920 on the sky so you're lucky if you see a few stars but here it's like you can actually like see into

00:49:40.760 the cosmos like you can see the moon at a level that I had never experienced before so um I feel

00:49:48.440 like elemental magic is a bit more prevalent in my life than it was when I was living in the city

00:49:54.440 it's like how can it not be like it's just in your face definitely definitely definitely like

00:50:01.260 I would say moving to the woods that was that was the biggest change that it just became like

00:50:06.120 almost hyper-focused on the elements because I mean that you know you're a part of it yeah you're

00:50:13.160 in the midst of it you can't get away from it even if you want to earth air fire and water it's like

00:50:18.240 it's not like you can escape that and the cycles of it like how each little bit is different like

00:50:23.980 even in a night like we talk about the moon cycle over a 28 day period but like in a night I had

00:50:30.380 forgotten when I went to go stay in the woods last year for a week that the moon is brightest

00:50:35.260 at the middle point of the night not right when it gets dark that like it actually gets brighter

00:50:40.420 throughout the night and so those like minutiae of the cycles living in them is so I don't know

00:50:46.140 beautiful yeah and that it looks so enormous only when it's so close it's a question of perspective

00:50:52.520 only when it's so close to the horizon do you get that sense of that like massive moon but

00:50:58.120 and it's and then it just gets like bright bright but tiny and it feels further and then when the

00:51:04.480 moon isn't there we can see the whole milky way here you know and we're really in this like soup

00:51:10.840 soup of stars yeah that and I can hear trees here like I mean I was like a tree hugger but like

00:51:18.120 my my my sense of being close to those things is a lot more vibrant now but I was gonna say like

00:51:26.420 when I think about it I think my experience of magic is like more intensely divided by

00:51:33.940 pre-kid and post-kid than pre-city to country and it's similar in a way but it's just like

00:51:43.800 the time that I have like I feel this like perpetual longing to have to do more like

00:51:50.500 solitary witch stuff but then every moment with her is so ripe with magic that I'm like

00:51:56.920 challenged by my impatience and so to stay in that moment with her and I just heard her today

00:52:02.500 as i was leaving the room she's hanging out with mark and she's like if you go counterclockwise

00:52:06.920 you'd say take away the sickness and if you stir clockwise then you say bring the prosperity and

00:52:14.160 he's like what are you talking about i was like oh that's from that's from mornings i'm crying now

00:52:18.720 that's making coffee with mom he's like counterclockwise i don't even know that word okay

00:52:25.920 cool cool cool

00:52:26.960 it's nice to be in the woods i miss the city though a lot you were reminding me of when

00:52:37.620 it's a coleman smith says something like in her writing about synesthesia and music

00:52:42.980 she says something about like uh you know she says like listen to good music

00:52:47.820 and jones says uh draw when you look at the crowds don't think about like dirt and poverty

00:52:55.200 and frustration and anger just feel the energy in them that's like the energy in the printing

00:53:00.280 press jesus like draw on that you know all the hairs are standing up for my neck

00:53:06.980 oh yeah sights of energy is interesting

00:53:10.680 yeah i love this city mouse country mouse thing i love it do you find that when you're when you're

00:53:21.260 doing your podcast that this is like a theme that that comes up a lot i think so or at least i always

00:53:29.180 ask kate how like a city which celebrates these really like agricultural right themes you know

00:53:35.960 um and i feel like kate does such a good job of bringing that energy in and maybe because

00:53:41.560 you didn't necessarily grow up in the city so i feel like you have that country part of yourself

00:53:48.400 too the country mouse heart but I think I think that's part of being a poet too right is is I'll

00:53:55.460 say our um we four poets here our ability to find the metaphors in everything you know we can talk

00:54:03.460 about a seed and planting a seed and obviously you know that's like a seed and we put it in soil and

00:54:09.260 we water it or we can talk about that as like an idea you know so that's how Risa and I because we

00:54:15.100 started practicing together we were both living in the city living in montreal and so it was all

00:54:20.320 very metaphorical you know and now we're sort of getting a bit more literal with it but still

00:54:25.260 keeping those metaphors in our pockets right and play like i i love the i love the getting into a

00:54:32.880 circle and throwing eggs in the street like all of my all of my favorite like teenage rebellion

00:54:38.360 was a form of like theater performance ritual play you know and i just i don't know i want to

00:54:44.460 give that to our listeners and to yours that like if you if you feel stuck in like how to access 0.77

00:54:51.300 your magic or your practice um you can just fucking play around with it i think right there's 0.59

00:54:58.620 that star hawk star hawk quote about like how people think ritual is so serious and and things 0.94

00:55:05.140 but mostly it's just about being playful and trying to get back to that playful place for

00:55:10.140 the most potent magic yeah there's donna harroway stuff too about play play as worlding that we

00:55:18.920 play with play with strings and we do worlds or something and i mean that that's exactly what you

00:55:25.860 were doing with your flying cat right yeah yes um i wonder if it's still around i should reach out

00:55:34.220 oh thanks so much for this for this extended hang this like many many part hang feels really

00:55:45.660 crisscross yeah i love this we'll have to do it again definitely and thanks to the witch web

00:55:55.360 for connecting us again um so special cosmic witch yes yeah getting all the shout outs

00:56:04.520 yeah and yeah i mean listeners as we sort of wind this one down i hope that your feelings of

00:56:17.660 loss are at least in part balanced by your feelings of play and of being held and supported

00:56:24.400 by each other connected to each other maybe take a minute and spirit write some of your guides today

00:56:31.020 remember the moments that you got hit in the face with a sense that you're alive

00:56:35.080 and that magic is everywhere magic is in the streets of manhattan and it is in the fields

00:56:41.600 of portugal and it is in the woods and it is in the concrete can we expect a magic and alchemy book

00:56:48.520 at any point Kate's got her fingers crossed and so does Kristen yeah um I think Kate and I both

00:56:59.580 would love to just write all the books all the things um so yeah always always books in the

00:57:09.220 works always books on the brain absolutely do you want to tell uh listeners a bit about where

00:57:14.380 they can find you and the projects they should watch out for coming from you yeah Kate you want

00:57:20.640 to yeah yeah I um I send a weekly newsletter it's free it has um poetry prompts in it every week um

00:57:29.560 and so you can sign up for that at kateblue.com there's also like a little word witch workbook

00:57:35.780 that's free if you want more of a writing um magical experience and i teach word witch workshops

00:57:45.160 and i'm around yeah k8 blue on instagram

00:57:49.920 i also oh yeah well i was just saying we'll we'll link to uh your workshop and your website in the

00:57:59.340 show notes for those of you who are listening without a pen

00:58:01.680 i am also a subscriber to kate's newsletter and i love it and even if you're not a poet

00:58:08.860 if you do the prompts you will be a poet i promise they're all so beautiful we're all

00:58:15.540 poets yes we are it's true um yeah people can find me um online instagram at east and alchemy

00:58:25.820 i have a website kristenlisenby.com i send out a bi-weekly newsletter for book witches um word

00:58:33.680 witches um i also have a project called little witch books which you can find on instagram

00:58:41.200 as well where me and a fellow um witch and art witch caitlin barone we have a children's book

00:58:48.320 i say children's because i think it's for people of all ages but that will be out um around sound

00:58:54.340 time it's a sound themed book so yeah we're around on the internet all sorts of places

00:59:00.060 do you have a title for the book i do it's called little witch host sound supper

00:59:06.020 so good so good

00:59:10.180 i just wanted to end with because i i pulled up that poem that amy and i actually both 0.93

00:59:18.840 quoted correctly despite my fucking correcting you sorry witch but um since we talked about 0.85

00:59:27.840 word witches and the world making power of the imagination we have to we have to say this right 0.98

00:59:35.300 so diane de prima wrote there's no way out of the spiritual battle the war is the war against

00:59:42.300 the imagination you can't sign up as a conscientious objector the war of the world

00:59:47.280 hangs here right now in the balance it is a war for this world to keep it a veil of soul making

00:59:54.360 the taste in all our mouths is the taste of power and it is bitter as death

00:59:59.000 bring yourself home to yourself enter the garden the guy at the gate with the flaming sword is

01:00:05.260 yourself the war is the war for the human imagination

01:00:08.540 thank you kate and kristin thank you diane de prima thank you thank you so much 0.99

01:00:19.700 you must be a witch

01:00:25.580 the missing witches podcast is brought to you by the missing witches coven

01:00:31.200 join us right now on patreon.com slash missing witches blast if i can be

Missing Witches - March 24, 2022

WF - Crossroads Are Portals Into Witchcraft： Kristin Lisenby and Kate Belew

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