Missing Witches - WF Mel Gutierrez AKA The Body Witch - Your Body Is The First Temple

00:00:00.580 If you want to support the Missing Witches project, join the Coven, find out how at missingwitches.com, or buy our books, New Moon Magic and Missing Witches, and check out our Deck of Oracles, the Missing Witches Deck of Oracles. 1.00

00:00:18.780 You aren't being a proper woman, therefore you must be a witch. 1.00

00:00:25.180 You must be a witch. 0.99

00:00:26.600 Hi, Coven, and welcome to another episode of the Missing Witches podcast. My name is Amy, and I'm so in my guts excited to hang out with today's guest, Mel Gutierrez, a.k.a. The Body Witch.

00:00:44.880 fuck yeah body witch i know that so many of you not you us have been like struggling with our 0.99

00:00:55.620 bodies i have to shout risa out who is not only battling cancer but like a couple days before 0.98

00:01:01.940 this recording also got appendicitis like right and so like this one goes out to risa and all of

00:01:11.600 us who are like oh my body tell me what you want me to do so I'm gonna pass the mic to you Mel

00:01:21.220 thank you so much for sitting down with me like who are you today where are you going where have

00:01:28.860 you been tell our listeners a little bit about yourself thank you for that and I I want to start

00:01:36.420 by sending Risa some very good energy, protection, clarity of insight so that she can hear the voice

00:01:44.260 of wisdom that her body has inherently so that she can follow through and also provide relief

00:01:49.780 for herself. She's in a fight and I honor her in that fight. So that goes out to you, Risa.

00:01:57.120 I am the body witch. I am not the only body witch. I don't want to be the only body witch.

00:02:03.060 what my work in this world today i like that question it's too much when people are like who

00:02:07.720 are you and i'm like today or yeah i am an ever-changing and metamorphosizing being i'm

00:02:16.300 like we got a cross and it's a cross section that narrow it down so my work right now is very heavily

00:02:21.700 focused on getting people to properly interpret the signaling that their physical body gives them

00:02:26.260 and i have a lot of science in my background to back that up and a lot of experience as an athlete

00:02:31.200 to back that up but I'm also a practicing witch and have been my entire life I actually don't

00:02:37.100 know another way because I grew up with both uh Santeria I'm not sure how familiar people might be

00:02:44.620 with a Afro-Curveean diaspora oh I have Santeria on my list of topics to discuss with you I'm super

00:02:51.860 excited to get into it yeah yeah carry on yes yes so my background in ritual and ceremonial magic

00:02:57.620 even though I am not a practicing Santera, that is the background I came from, is always imbuing

00:03:04.800 this work. And now I feel really blessed to be in a place with clients that I can do that

00:03:08.640 explicitly and offer them magic and ritual as a form of healing for themselves. So that's where

00:03:14.160 we're at today. And you're also the co-author of a book called Exposing Yoga Myths. I want to

00:03:21.680 really get into that yeah i feel like western culture has um turned yoga into just like a

00:03:29.840 a fitness but not like a holistic fitness just like beach body beach body yoga but i need to like

00:03:37.900 go down to foundations first um the body witch you have this great video on your youtube channel

00:03:46.320 called what is a witch where you're in conversation with another witch an herbalist a friend of yours

00:03:51.260 but for our listeners who haven't seen it yet i'm gonna put the link in the show notes y'all don't

00:03:56.640 worry who haven't seen it yet like what is a witch to you so much of the missing witches project is

00:04:03.160 just like trying to answer for ourselves that question of like what even is a witch so what

00:04:09.920 does that word mean to you and why did you choose it as part of your moniker yeah thank you i think

00:04:17.600 that is that's one of the reasons I was attracted to missing witches and I was like oh I want to 1.00

00:04:21.580 hang out with these people I was like these are these bitches are my kind of bitches so you know 1.00

00:04:27.600 I think the reason that's very hard and it is an ever dynamic growing body of work is because when 1.00

00:04:32.620 we say witch we are already confronting the limitations of language and witch can mean so

00:04:39.320 many things but for me what I feel in my bones primarily is the call to explicit everyday guidance

00:04:46.560 from nature and my ancestors and spirit guides in a way that I don't have to necessarily justify

00:04:53.900 the voices that I follow my instincts by an externalized framework that is validated by

00:04:59.260 others aka organized religions we can talk about a lot about that if you want to that's part of my

00:05:05.140 scholarly background from college and there's also in what defining what is which that's which for me

00:05:12.480 That doesn't invalidate or delegitimize witchdom for those who are not necessarily working primarily with nature or those who aren't in touch with ancestors, you know, that's different work.

00:05:24.080 And so I don't either want to make it so myopic of a definition.

00:05:28.300 This is when we can have the Smith College liberal arts discussion on witchdom.

00:05:33.160 But there's also just calling up the archetypal energy of the person who lives on the fringes of society. 0.89

00:05:42.220 And this often looked like the woman, the single woman who had herbal medicine living in the cottage outside the village, which was often a way to survive when other systems weren't really appealing.

00:05:54.120 But it's not limited to just that.

00:05:56.140 So I want to just drop a few seeds and say that's where I go in that direction.

00:06:00.240 but i do not think that that's a standard definition that all other witches wizards

00:06:04.960 or magical beings have to adhere to and now the other part the body part the body part yeah i i

00:06:13.920 i again personally like lifelong chronic illness mental physical i sort of always like felt like

00:06:24.840 um a mind trapped in a body that was my enemy and I know you know Maria Minis was on the show

00:06:32.760 just a couple weeks ago and she without prompting sort of said the same thing that she like

00:06:38.100 imagines herself as like an orb of light that is like someday will be freed from the shackles of

00:06:45.260 the body but I don't want to feel like that anymore I've tipped into the second half of my

00:06:50.980 life and I want to make friends with my body I know so many of our coven mates have chronic

00:06:57.800 illness chronic pain etc etc so I'm not alone in this for sure but I for all of us like how

00:07:06.780 would you suggest that we become friends with our bodies like how do I embody my life how do I

00:07:16.620 get in good relation with this meat and bone sack that has has like gratefully and thankfully 0.89

00:07:24.560 gotten me this far yeah uh I'm going to give I'm going to give the truth and then we can go into

00:07:32.020 the deeper dive how to get there because this might create a lot of resistance and I also honor

00:07:36.500 that because no one no matter what they look like has a perfect body experience okay so as somebody 0.82

00:07:43.700 who's come from a background of intense illness, near death, seizures, all kinds of shit, including

00:07:51.800 having to rebuild myself after COVID, the real nasty COVID, because I was in the hotspot in New 0.96

00:07:57.000 York City when it dropped. It was really fun, big party. So reclaiming your power wherever you are

00:08:06.540 in this moment. The foundation for that has to be self-love and self-acceptance. And this is not

00:08:15.320 new information. So I would like to make it specific to what does that look like as we apply

00:08:20.540 it operationally to the body and how we heal. That means you start to talk to yourself in a loving

00:08:27.860 way. You touch yourself in any regard in a loving way. You start to undo the mechanisms of self

00:08:38.700 judgment that are standing in the way of you being able to touch and talk to yourself as if you are

00:08:46.460 your number one fan, lover, and best friend. There is no wiggle room around this, folks. I'm so sorry.

00:08:54.340 There is no halfway.

00:08:56.160 I want to meet people where they are, but I more than anything want you to fall in love

00:09:00.700 with yourself and see the miraculous being that you are in this embodied, fleshy state,

00:09:06.780 as difficult and ugly as it can be.

00:09:09.320 But to fall in love with yourself radically and to honor the first temple.

00:09:16.540 This is the first temple.

00:09:17.760 Your body is the first temple.

00:09:19.520 And as anyone who's manifesting, which we're all always manifesting.

00:09:23.820 how you relate to your physical temple. That'll be where you manifest first. That will be reflected

00:09:31.120 in everything around you that you manifest. And another way to say that in a really grounded way,

00:09:37.400 in the scientific way that I love quoting somebody who I think is brilliant.

00:09:42.140 The state of your nervous system is the projected reality you see all around you and that you

00:09:48.140 perceive through whatever senses you have. Even if you are not sighted and you have different

00:09:53.320 sense capacity and capabilities that is what is being projected and then bounced back to you

00:09:59.840 so healing primarily your relationship with your physical body

00:10:03.900 is the primary foundational way to start cleaning up the messes externally as well 0.94

00:10:10.300 when you talk about your touching yourself i mean we can talk about masturbation because i feel like 0.67

00:10:18.740 people who have been socialized as women um at least when I was coming up this was not something

00:10:24.620 that we talked about and I think it would be great if it were something that we talked about

00:10:29.000 um so you can talk about that here and please do but I think you also mean just like a loving

00:10:35.700 caress yes hugging yourself yes and and I do I do um I'm sorry I didn't mean to interrupt if I

00:10:46.160 if I did. Imagine having a really great partnership, whatever that looks like for you.

00:10:55.000 I don't care about the container. And the sex is great. Let's say you have that.

00:11:03.580 But that's all. And that you don't get a lot of touch or praise or connection outside of that.

00:11:10.820 that is what we will build with ourselves even if we are able to reclaim our sexual vitality

00:11:19.000 and our arrows in a magical and personally healing way which is also what I want everyone to do and

00:11:24.700 it and that is for you to define there's no absolute standard for what that looks like

00:11:28.580 you can be an asexual human being and still accept yourself own your own truth of your sexuality

00:11:35.480 and be in the making love to yourself by acceptance.

00:11:39.140 That is up to you to define and to own.

00:11:42.180 I'm just interested in you getting there, doing the work.

00:11:45.320 But when you're showering,

00:11:47.520 when you are putting on your lotion,

00:11:50.420 when you're brushing your teeth,

00:11:52.360 when you are confronting the parts of you

00:11:54.300 that make you look away in the mirror,

00:11:56.260 we all have them.

00:11:57.520 When you are touching parts of yourself

00:11:59.260 that might make you cringe a little bit.

00:12:01.720 When you have a disease that you're dealing with

00:12:05.140 an injury or a part of you that you feel is imperfect. This is not a reason to look away.

00:12:13.300 It is an invitation to do the shadow work that is fundamentally healing for all of us. There

00:12:19.680 really is no more primary way to take care of this side of the business of self-love,

00:12:26.720 touching and speaking to yourself also with love and kindness, which I'm not saying I can do

00:12:34.540 perfectly all the time it's a process in which you catch it because you'll it'll sneak up on you

00:12:39.260 those self-flagellating voices i know them well and sometimes you don't even know it but you have 0.98

00:12:43.920 to be prepared with your practice to go oh oh i just forgot that i'm a bad ass bitch time to go 0.99

00:12:51.320 to the mirror look myself in the eyes and say i fucking love you and i'm gonna fight for you and 0.98

00:12:56.980 i'm gonna take care of you because once you have that and you live in that every day nothing else 0.95

00:13:02.120 can fucking touch you that's there's there's something in I think it's from the book about 0.86

00:13:07.240 self-love and and you say like to get in and do that mirror time and say like thank you body 0.99

00:13:13.380 I love you and that's something I think even you know those of us who are feeling disembodied

00:13:20.040 can get into as a very easy and accessible practice right yes and I've heard this theme before

00:13:27.560 of like i hate being in my body i i want to be a consciousness and and when you are people by the

00:13:34.820 way where that's a real reality that's reality where there's an explicit reality where you can

00:13:39.120 join up with other people and astrally project somewhere or you yourself get to be in another

00:13:45.580 state that's all wonderful and none of that could happen unless you were in a body

00:13:49.900 yeah okay because what you're talking about are state changes that are now measurable

00:13:57.100 through modern science catching up to what we've known for tens of thousands of years as a human

00:14:02.920 species right like maybe not with the same conscious level of awareness but manipulating

00:14:07.020 these internal structures to the nervous system we can make it very grounded which is state change

00:14:12.880 you use your senses to create a different state of being that wouldn't happen if you didn't have

00:14:17.920 this nervous system so acceptance about the fact that you are embodied and stop pushing it away

00:14:23.400 because you deny yourself great power some of your greatest powerful tools as a witch

00:14:28.200 hi i love that you investigate the nervous system there's like in the introduction of the book

00:14:34.060 there's this like big black and white square that says um let me get it right more science

00:14:40.160 less woo woo and that like obviously i was like yeah you know because people tend to think that

00:14:47.840 because we identify as witches that somehow that that's separate from science but for us

00:14:52.860 that's like very integrated that's like very very integrated and you have a BA in psychology

00:15:01.500 and religious studies um can you talk about how like education and intuition have sort of like

00:15:10.980 intersected in your work oh that's i like that education and intuition because it's it's really

00:15:19.980 i think um it's a sexy idea to be like and and i'm gonna own my ego position in this when i'm like

00:15:27.520 i'm gonna learn about the sciences so i can corroborate what i experience and then be able

00:15:32.540 to sell it to people legitimately and then i you know like then we'll we'll clear it all up and

00:15:37.340 there's a lot of, I'm grateful for that impetus because it means that I have a really valid

00:15:42.660 context and starting point that we can all relate to that I like to consider anatomical and

00:15:47.580 physiological reality, right? That's a, that's a nice place. And then there are the places where

00:15:54.180 our sciences, our hard sciences are not frankly advanced enough to be able to measure or create

00:16:00.660 a standardized report of experience on the woo. And I am someone who lives every single day in the

00:16:06.720 woo. Like that skeleton and I were slow dancing last night because it was a full moon and I

00:16:12.680 wanted to release fears around intimacy and vulnerability. So I don't want to live with

00:16:18.300 that on my death bed. So I picked up my death skeleton and I was like, we're going to dance

00:16:22.340 this out, buddy. We had a great time. Now, can I corroborate the experience of that in a

00:16:27.500 scientifically measurable way? I can't do that today, but I don't have to because I'm not trying

00:16:33.700 to sell to anyone or even to myself, quote unquote, what is real. I just know what feels

00:16:39.280 good for me. Then reality, a shared reality is where I think formal education is very useful

00:16:46.560 because reality is already a dicey place to try to define, especially when you have more than one

00:16:52.160 person in the room. So that's where I do like to have a scholarship that allows me to speak on a

00:16:59.120 different wavelength or just to be heard in a different channel and tell me more about the

00:17:05.820 like religious history aspect of your education why was that important to you to study faiths

00:17:11.580 faiths i know i i struggle with the the diphthong with the with the s as well diphthongs and

00:17:19.880 sibilance um so that came about because i was very very interested in reading and learning about

00:17:28.320 different cultures I was very hungry for it and at the time the college I was in Smith College has

00:17:33.840 a great literature department but it was like you get one comparative language and then all the like 0.97

00:17:39.460 classic literature that was a lot of old white dudes which I don't take their power away like

00:17:44.240 thank you guys like that was great but I needed something with a little more diversity and I

00:17:48.680 realized that if I was looking for primary source material that also exemplified culture

00:17:54.580 then I could just go to religion and I would get a fantastic lens there through scripture

00:18:00.060 primary source material and then seeing how that evolved in a cultural landscape

00:18:04.920 and please expand um tell me about your um investigation of Santeria and you said it's

00:18:13.680 sort of like a you know kind of an ancestral practice for you and so how did how did you

00:18:25.440 get drawn in like you said you're not initiated but like so what does your practice look like

00:18:31.460 tell me I want to sit back for a minute and just listen to you talk about Santeria oh thank you I

00:18:37.940 I can't tell you how much this means to me because and it makes me a little emotional

00:18:43.020 because part of my work is representation of myself is I'm always immediately categorized

00:18:50.920 as Wiccan, which is wonderful. And I'm so happy that's so open and out there. And it just reflects

00:18:57.200 that we have in our larger society, a very narrow view of what the witch is or what our traditional

00:19:02.880 magical practices. So I love getting to talk about my background. I am Mexican and Puerto Rican,

00:19:09.020 The Mexican side of me on my father's side, very heavily Catholic.

00:19:13.680 So that was an interesting mixture of things and backdrop, which is interesting to little

00:19:19.360 Melissa because little Melissa grew up also with a Puerto Rican mother.

00:19:24.020 And that's where the Santaria comes in. 0.87

00:19:26.420 And so I was raised with both, not knowing like a goldfish in the water, just immersed,

00:19:32.800 not knowing that one was different from the other.

00:19:36.120 And they didn't necessarily appear different.

00:19:39.020 um santeria is very strong in its presentation the altars of the deities um my mother's deity

00:19:47.040 uh is a a god of war and thunder chango and so the the the way it looks the fierceness it is embodied

00:19:56.860 is something that i was normal i normally grew up with and i was like oh that's the altar with

00:20:00.620 chango and like and that's the coconut that lives in the corner that we don't touch because mom

00:20:05.300 tells me it cleanses the energy you know like shit as a kid that you don't know how to categorize 0.79

00:20:10.600 necessarily is different like you're just doing it and then I would go to like catholic mass which 0.97

00:20:15.420 is yes completely different right it's a different animal but also full of death magic and that's how

00:20:23.340 I saw it as a little kid because I was like and I was really caught up in the Jesus saga and he

00:20:28.060 went through a lot of shit but like seeing the resurrection but also seeing the suffering and 0.97

00:20:33.440 and all of that. And yes, there's a mixed bag of what that leaves you with psychologically. 0.99

00:20:39.600 But it was interesting for little Melissa to deal with those tensions within the home. And then as

00:20:45.960 I was growing up and leaving the house, things I was told I was and was not allowed to talk about.

00:20:51.180 And I used to also attend exorcisms and house cleansings with my mother, who was doing that

00:20:57.600 for friends and people who requested it. So I was always her little assistant. So I also grew up

00:21:03.420 seeing energies and and doing the exorcisms and seeing the demons and and knowing how to cast

00:21:08.780 fields of protection for myself and you know so it was a weird i'm very very very grateful for

00:21:16.920 my upbringing because it gave me this very interesting perspective of um okay i don't

00:21:23.140 practice santeria now because that is not my path but i have those elements on orishas with me

00:21:28.140 and i don't claim to practice in a certain way because i give respect to my santera friends

00:21:33.320 and santero friends who have done that ifa and palo santo all of that work but i have my game

00:21:40.500 my lady of the waters card that i've had since i was six up in my bathroom like there are just

00:21:45.880 things that don't go away so and it was it was also helpful because i'm not afraid of death the

00:21:51.660 same way i think that's a big reason why i love halloween horror movies and death magic is an easy 0.95

00:21:57.020 one for me because you grow up with that scary fucking images and shit all the time on both 0.98

00:22:03.660 ends of that experience and yeah you you adapt tell me more about your like as a body witch 0.99

00:22:13.040 tell me more about your concept of death what happens when we die

00:22:18.140 i wish i knew i did it's a really easy question come on

00:22:25.740 everybody knows the answer to this one i love this is why i love getting to speak to 0.99

00:22:33.520 our type of people because it's like this is this is the normal shit that rolls around in 0.88

00:22:38.820 our heads like what does happen i don't know what happens exactly when we die i can say for myself 0.98

00:22:46.740 and i know i'm not alone in this the voices of my ancestors and spirit guides are strong and clear

00:22:52.880 i do believe in what i do know about the hard sciences and what they've proven about energy

00:22:58.700 in the universe that nothing ever gets wasted or it may be dispersed maybe shifted there's just too

00:23:06.540 much i think real scientific evidence as well as anecdotal evidence for the idea that there isn't

00:23:14.560 anything on the other end of that passage but there isn't enough evidence to concretely in my

00:23:21.280 opinion and confidently create an absolute standard for anybody else and i think that's

00:23:25.200 where things can get dangerous um but i do embrace in a liberating way every day that my body is

00:23:34.640 aging that things are different and that that is not a flaw that is part of my evolution and it's

00:23:42.000 part of the signaling that tells me how to continue living in a health span for as long as i will be

00:23:48.280 here. So I'm in, I'm 43 now and things are very, very different. And I'm learning to apply the

00:23:56.940 tools of self-love and acceptance and go, oh, right. I am slowly decaying. And some people

00:24:07.200 don't like that language and that's okay. You don't have to use that language. You can use

00:24:10.120 something else, but we're slowing down. This is normal. This is part of the order. And when I

00:24:15.460 connect to it that way in my body I don't feel afraid I feel very connected to humanity

00:24:22.520 to the human experience and I feel instantly transported to the arms of the ancestors who

00:24:28.440 do wait for me for my dog who I miss still from high school you know for for every element that

00:24:35.740 I see um that demonstrates that cycle of life and rebirth for me did that answer the question

00:24:43.880 i mean it answered it as well as i think any of us humans can answer it yeah i don't i don't know

00:24:50.580 if you ever read any um my jean gonzalez whipler but she's also puerto rican also um grew up in

00:24:56.680 santeria and she has a whole book about like arguing um using the laws of like thermodynamics

00:25:04.000 and electromagnetism you know again that like science-based woo-woo

00:25:10.380 we can use that kind of paradoxical phrase there is and i think like to use a word

00:25:18.660 that um is very core to you it's empowering can you talk about empowerment open a big cast a big 0.98

00:25:31.300 wide net for me what is empowerment what does it feel like in the body and how do i fucking

00:25:40.100 get there well as someone who never struggles and has gotten there perfectly no that's that's

00:25:47.840 definitely not true I think empowerment is also a process but I like to I like the idea of casting

00:25:53.780 the net wide empowerment for me and when hearing that question is about accepting what I desire

00:26:04.360 as truth, no matter what that desire is. And that can be in every area of your life, folks.

00:26:13.000 Not lying to myself about it. Even if I don't take action on it, just letting myself in the

00:26:19.660 privacy of my own mind in the mirror talk, know what my desires are. That's already empowering

00:26:24.360 because I'm living in truth, my own truth. And I don't have to hide that. I am not saying that

00:26:30.980 it is then your responsibility to enact that truth.

00:26:34.340 Not everybody gets to live in a system

00:26:35.780 where all truths are safe or without real risk of harm.

00:26:40.600 So that again is a more complicated issue,

00:26:44.020 but at least knowing the truth within yourself

00:26:46.120 and then having the willingness where it is possible

00:26:49.460 and the risk is manageable to take action and fight for it.

00:26:54.640 Where's your inner fight?

00:26:56.940 Where's your inner protector for your truth,

00:27:00.260 your desires, who is advocating for them? Who is going to help you move towards them?

00:27:08.940 So what I find empowering about that is that life is hard, but I can either sit in the shit 0.99

00:27:15.840 when I get knocked down or I can get the fuck back up. I'm not interested in living my human life 0.99

00:27:24.720 and not making the most of it I don't see the point otherwise I don't want to resign myself

00:27:30.320 to rolling around in the misery so I will fight for myself in every way possible

00:27:34.420 that's all I got that's it that's that's very empowering and you you do you're like an

00:27:43.420 empowerment teacher what how how do people come to you like describe what I don't client student

00:27:52.240 And describe what that's like in case some of our listeners can relate to that feeling and maybe break out of it.

00:27:59.940 Totally. Totally. I think not surprising. I don't think based on our conversation, this will surprise anyone.

00:28:06.220 Most of the time people will come to me. It's a little different now because the marketing material is different.

00:28:12.900 Marketing is a different thing. But most of the time people come to me to solve body problems because usually there's a word of mouth or someone will see a video or take a class.

00:28:21.320 and then they'll go oh okay I think you can help me and most of the time I can which is great to

00:28:27.000 say and I'm proud of that that that's a most of the time and I'm also proud to say that I have a 0.82

00:28:31.200 great referral network and not afraid to shove my own ego up my ass and go I you know what I don't

00:28:35.940 know what this is but I do have a friend who does you know and that to me is part of the work like 0.88

00:28:41.200 getting everybody into this empowerment mode so we start let's say we start working together and

00:28:46.280 it's like either I'm healing something through rehab or I want to feel differently in my body

00:28:51.440 The conversations around, I want to look different in my body.

00:28:54.240 You're a personal trainer are much shorter.

00:28:56.860 I'm very much less interested in aesthetic training.

00:28:59.840 Aesthetic training is not what people think it is.

00:29:02.240 And it falls apart really fast, especially as we age. 0.98

00:29:05.660 So that shit you see on TV or in movies, just know that nobody looks like that all the time. 0.99

00:29:10.540 For real. 0.99

00:29:10.960 It's just most, unless you are genetically gifted in some way, most of us, including myself,

00:29:17.280 don't, don't get to have that.

00:29:19.000 So the conversation really revolves around healing the self.

00:29:22.760 And then on the most basic, like, hey, we're going to do some strength training.

00:29:29.480 We're going to build muscle.

00:29:30.600 This is all great.

00:29:31.560 And then I'm waiting for those opportunities to go.

00:29:34.020 Do you feel that?

00:29:35.300 Do you like how that feels?

00:29:37.140 And there's usually a lot of resistance to this process because once you do start strength 0.99

00:29:41.000 training, it's uncomfortable for some women, not all, there is still feeling uncomfortable 1.00

00:29:46.700 in a gym because you're usually the only woman in the weight room and you don't know what to do 0.99

00:29:51.220 and you're not trained to do that so we've moved through through that but that is an empowerment

00:29:55.220 process and then that usually will open the doors for another conversation around like

00:30:00.240 hey do you want to you want to be able to apply this to other areas of your life

00:30:04.900 do you want to invoke this fire oh are you starting to feel what this like rage people

00:30:11.620 are like i'm angry and i'm like yeah you're hyperadrenalized what's what's there you know

00:30:16.220 and then we can start talking about like inner predator work how to make this translate off the

00:30:21.560 mat stuff that kind of thing which i love yeah i i have a friend who spent some time in an ashram

00:30:28.900 and and a lot of their work was the exact words you use that off the mat how to practice yoga

00:30:36.400 as like and that's what i loved about the book again it's called exposing yoga myths

00:30:42.600 So two part question. What drove you to conceive of the book? And secondly, something that was really exciting for me as a Western person was that y'all wrote that yoga can be meditation, pranayama, that's breath, right?

00:31:00.140 yes and or acts of compassion so part one why exposing yoga myths and part two

00:31:08.560 how are acts of compassion part of a yoga practice yeah isn't that amazing um i i we felt called that

00:31:19.640 book was written um and was inspired by a blog that my business partner in the time at the time

00:31:26.900 who is still one of my best friends, by the way. And I had, I want to say like we started our work

00:31:32.620 together in 2012, right? So we're really going back there. And we were very popular in the yoga

00:31:38.600 industry, which was trendy at the time. And it still is, but it was very intense. And we were

00:31:48.520 very upset about seeing a practice that we recognize depth that we had done scholarly

00:31:56.200 learning about its background and we felt frankly that it was being twisted dishonored and stripped

00:32:03.320 of its cultural heritage in order to continue to fund capitalism you know and and i'm by the way

00:32:09.300 folks i'm a very proud capitalist as long as i get to take the money and then redistribute it

00:32:14.160 in the way that I see fit that elevate to all of us.

00:32:16.600 So, you know, so that was why we were inspired to do it.

00:32:19.900 And then we had a third author in there who helped us.

00:32:22.820 And a lot of the blog posts inspired the work.

00:32:27.200 And we just wanted to get the message out.

00:32:28.820 And there's stuff in there that maybe changes

00:32:30.220 with scientific updates.

00:32:31.500 You know, it's older, but the real message was,

00:32:34.980 please know what this system is,

00:32:39.120 specifically from another culture,

00:32:40.760 honor it for what it is,

00:32:42.680 and recognize that you are not going to the gym 0.99

00:32:45.020 to get a fucking sweat and a workout in. 0.99

00:32:48.740 This is yoga. 1.00

00:32:50.800 This is a systematic exploration of you

00:32:54.200 as a spiritual being in an embodied state.

00:32:57.720 To try to pretend it's anything other than that

00:33:00.540 is for us, I'm not saying anybody else

00:33:04.140 has to be in this line, is offensive.

00:33:07.280 You can make it whatever you want,

00:33:09.560 but you have to at least acknowledge

00:33:11.280 where you're coming from in the same way that if in a magical practice, I want to start working

00:33:16.240 with a particular deity, I would ask permission. I would do the research to know where I'm coming

00:33:21.780 from, what the cultural background is so that I can appropriate it with kindness and gratitude

00:33:28.040 and integrity and not just appropriate with unconsciousness. We're all appropriating all

00:33:33.080 the time too. I just want to do it consciously with integrity. So that was the real inspiration

00:33:37.860 of it. And also so that people stop struggling because there's also, and I'm just going to get

00:33:42.280 really frank for a moment, my language here, there's a lot of bullshit in the yoga and fitness 0.69

00:33:46.540 industry that is racketeering and profiteering off of people's insecurities about what they feel 0.90

00:33:53.280 and look like in their bodies. And that is disgusting to me. It's not something I can stand

00:33:58.560 by and then also profit off of myself and not speak out on it. So that's where a lot of that

00:34:05.200 came from. And then part two, how are acts of compassion part of a yoga practice? I was like,

00:34:13.800 there was a much more important question there, Melissa. Listen, if anybody asked me two questions,

00:34:19.560 there's no way I'm remembering the second question. I don't know why I would do it to you.

00:34:24.140 The acts of compassion are, so again, yoga as a system of spiritual exploration from a country

00:34:33.560 and a culture that we can't and I can't necessarily identify with no matter how much

00:34:38.220 scholarly ship you do it you're not in it right so you try to take it and make it fit and shove

00:34:44.620 it into the hole that star-shaped peg into this hole over here and all of that work is to be able

00:34:52.600 to liberate yourself outside of the conditions of human suffering that's as far as we know we don't

00:34:57.280 know a lot about the history of yoga in a lot of ways so um let me just interrupt for a second

00:35:02.240 because it's so old it's older even than hinduism um and that is so fascinating to me

00:35:10.840 but carry on yes thank you no thank you thank you for bringing that up in that

00:35:14.820 it's also really important that when we have these conversations have those side notes because 0.85

00:35:20.900 we don't know we're going you know like we go into other people's cultural shit to study it 0.56

00:35:26.700 which is great but then we create these codified categories and names and it's like we don't really 0.66

00:35:31.620 know human beings have been playing with their embodiment for a long time with some evidence 0.98

00:35:37.920 that is written if we're lucky enough but we don't fucking know like shit's all over the place so like 0.99

00:35:43.560 that's the that's the scholarly please take that quote shit's all over the place 0.99

00:35:48.840 so when you're in that liberation exploration compassion which is a thread that runs through 0.96

00:35:56.560 eastern philosophy self-compassion so acts of self-compassion the self-love the the kind

00:36:02.620 self-talk re-evaluating the lens through which you view your body those are acts of yoga

00:36:08.180 because yoga is about liberation right and so i'm being conscious of my time before i start going

00:36:17.260 into the etymology of the remnants of sanskrit i remember so okay so yoga yoga is you break down

00:36:24.740 the language of yoga like the word yoga means it means the yoking of opposites so it is a perceived

00:36:32.340 opposites exploration because eastern philosophy was very i'm saying was because it's past stuff

00:36:41.480 we're talking about but in comparison to western philosophies is non-dualistic

00:36:47.760 dualism is in the western conception of i am a brain and then i have a body and those things

00:36:54.340 are separate and then and so this that again is a lens that works to see the world in those lenses

00:37:00.760 like in eastern philosophy nothing is really separate from anything else that those are just

00:37:07.020 perceptive categories we create now that is being proven more and more in quantum physics anyone

00:37:14.360 who's interested in the more advanced science is right what's coming forward so it doesn't

00:37:18.840 invalidate all the good things that happen in western science but this is partly why we have

00:37:22.960 this difficulty of like trying to stick the peg in the wrong hole. So as you're yoking opposites

00:37:28.220 in that compassion practice of the self and the body, you might perceive, I don't like this arm

00:37:34.620 for whatever reason. And then you start playing with your perceptions of why, how do I define it

00:37:39.680 as an arm? What does it mean that it's mine? Why isn't it living up to a standard? Where'd that

00:37:43.960 standard come from? And so you start doing all that shit. And it's, and if you're not kind to 1.00

00:37:50.900 yourself as you examine your lenses and you don't have the compassion or the self-love practice

00:37:57.620 it's a lot rougher and sometimes damaging i want to tie these two threads together because again

00:38:05.140 they sound like opposites but to me um they're they they share connective tissue and that is

00:38:13.160 like empowerment and compassion you know we kind of might think of power as being like an aggressive

00:38:22.340 self-serving so tie it in a bow for me stitch together the connective tissue between empowerment

00:38:29.740 and compassion if an intruder were to break into my house i would hold nothing back to 1.00

00:38:39.900 kick the shit out of them and kill them if necessary because I will choose myself 1.00

00:38:47.980 and as they die and I have the cops coming I will hold them so they don't have to face that 1.00

00:38:55.820 transition alone. Does that help? Yes and how can I implement this connective tissue

00:39:09.440 in my day-to-day life when i'm not faced with an intruder although you know if we think of

00:39:15.700 intruders as just like people who are trying to get into your head then it's easier to conceive

00:39:20.740 right right and i and i and i use the hyperbolic statement of that example because it's just easy

00:39:26.280 to illuminate and to kind of go oh that makes it a little more obvious um and there are scholars

00:39:31.780 of compassion who might quibble on that folks by the way anything is up for polemical debate at all

00:39:36.500 times. But I think what that looks like on the micro level is, do I have a thought that is

00:39:45.320 serving me or that is hurting me? And how do I compassionately draw the boundary around that?

00:39:51.120 Is there a person who is coming at me in a certain way? How can I, with power, lovingly

00:39:56.640 hold the boundary around that? You don't have to lovingly hold everyone. I leave that up to you

00:40:01.060 folks but you can be boundaried you can fight for yourself you can choose yourself first and you can

00:40:08.520 be skillful in how you use your power and then you can invite in the compassion this takes a lot of

00:40:16.420 practice it's nicely said it takes a lot of practice thank you so much for sitting down with

00:40:27.300 me i know that our listeners um i'm sure that they're relating to so much of what you're saying

00:40:33.960 so what would be the best way for listeners who are intrigued by what you're saying to

00:40:38.540 support you get in touch with you obviously again the name of the book is exposing yoga myths and

00:40:46.280 it is a quick read and it's beautifully laid out it feels like you're really getting a lot of

00:40:53.540 bang for the word count so don't be intimidated listeners if you're interested in this book it

00:40:58.460 really is not at all yeah it was meant to be a fast digestive read that triggers thought and

00:41:03.340 there's also a free course I've created that talks a lot about what what Amy and I just ended

00:41:11.100 on like how do I start doing this compassionate empowerment work and it was a course I created

00:41:16.960 specifically for which is to step out of trauma and into their power uh both using magical and

00:41:24.980 practical tools and that is something that like that will wrap would be a really interesting

00:41:30.240 experience and that is also fast because we all know how we're operating these days so it's a free

00:41:35.840 one there's like five videos in there with some workbook stuff and you do like you know you get

00:41:41.860 through it each video is like five to ten minutes and that's a link that i can provide also that

00:41:46.700 Amy can put out. Yeah. All of these links will be in the show notes. I'll link to your YouTube

00:41:51.760 channel and to your book and all of that. And I know you're on Instagram. You want to drop your

00:41:56.820 handle for those who might want to follow you. I don't know if you're on Tik TOK or Facebook or

00:42:00.860 all those, but there's only so much. Seriously. The body, which is my Instagram handle.

00:42:10.820 um and that work the videos you see you're gonna see a variety of things and that work is still

00:42:19.500 evolving over time so it's like a nice patchwork of what I'm into yeah that'll be all kinds of

00:42:26.020 stuff so Mel and I are here to tell you that to tell me rather that the body is not the enemy

00:42:34.980 it has at least gotten us this far to be sitting in these chairs talking to each other over zoom

00:42:42.280 today i want to underscore again that your body is the first temple the first gift that you're 0.98

00:42:49.920 given in this human life and if that means scented oils if that means you know masturbation 0.97

00:42:59.620 if that means getting into a mirror and just saying like thank you body i love you body

00:43:05.760 i'm currently wrapping my arms around myself and giving myself a hug this is like an important

00:43:11.740 practice for me to um just to try to get out of feeling like my body is the enemy you know i've

00:43:20.100 spent too much of my life cultivating my intellectual my cerebral and sort of just

00:43:27.280 being mad at this body for feeling like a prison and now thank you so much mel for helping me to

00:43:34.640 sort of deconcretize those to stretch emotionally and not just in a yoga madonna way but to stretch

00:43:47.120 um is there are there any parting words that you have for the listening coven before i thank you

00:43:53.020 again um be your own best friend folks and you will know a liberation like no other

00:43:59.100 a liberation like no other thank you so much melissa gutierrez again the book is exposing

00:44:07.680 yoga myths the youtube channel the instagram um courses classes find all of that stuff in the

00:44:15.500 show notes or head over to the body witch on instagram and check it out thank you so much

00:44:21.120 Melissa what a treasure to get to talk to you today thank you thank you and um I know we're

00:44:29.860 past our our time I have a little time and this part may not make it on the podcast but I just

00:44:35.820 saw a last minute question if it's okay to to answer it I missed it sorry babe let's yeah yeah

00:44:43.040 yeah there's a question from a coven mate in the chat um I'll read it to you and then you can answer

00:44:47.840 it yeah absolutely absolutely thanks for noticing that mel i had totally tuned there's only so much

00:44:52.620 there's a lot going on here so what advice do you have for someone that is in an active

00:45:02.660 flare-up and feels like their body is harming them to have compassion and help with healing

00:45:09.840 hmm that's a great question thank you it's kalika i think um so this is where i would be like i'd

00:45:22.180 want to do an intake and understand what does flare-up mean to you in your body and of course

00:45:28.240 this is not the space for all of that but i think your question is still

00:45:32.540 pertinent in that we all have these acute chronic or just moment scene, right? So what I would want

00:45:41.440 to know is what you're doing mentally, emotionally, and physically to reduce inflammation.

00:45:51.880 And inflammation is like another great word that we can throw around and I want to like bang my

00:45:56.400 head against the wall when I see a lot of things around it and that's okay. So I'm sure you're

00:46:00.360 aware of. And the reason I'm using inflammation is because when I think flare up, those are the

00:46:05.340 first kinds of body things that come to mind is there's like, I'm in an acute upset of some kind.

00:46:11.160 And flare up is usually what I hear around arthritis, any of the itises that connote

00:46:18.780 inflammation. So if I'm off base, we can, you can always follow up with me in a later email or

00:46:24.440 something. So you actually get the answer that applies to you. But it's important that you not

00:46:29.660 just do the physical work, but the emotional and mental work to keep yourself calm. As I get older

00:46:36.380 and as my clients age with me, and I help a lot of people through perimenopause, and I'll be going

00:46:41.600 through that, which I'm so excited about in actually a real way. The compartmentalization

00:46:49.520 we do around our emotions when it's too much compartmentalization costs a lot of physical

00:46:57.540 energy how you manage your mental and emotional state how you regulate your nervous system

00:47:03.520 on a daily basis and how often sounds like a conversation about energetic hygiene but it's

00:47:11.520 also about how you keep your nervous system primed for a more relaxed state and to drop into some a

00:47:16.960 state where it can actually heal itself so that's where i would go i'd want to know what you're

00:47:21.720 doing mentally and emotionally to manage all of it as well i hope that helps

00:47:26.880 yeah and if you have follow-up questions like please reach out to mel on social media um i'll

00:47:34.300 be happy to again share all of those links in the show notes so you can head over to

00:47:41.160 missingwitches.com and check all of that out thank you again so much for your empowerment

00:47:47.480 and for your compassion this was an amazing time everyone thank you for giving me a little

00:47:52.700 bit of space to share this was so fucking cool and blessed fucking be blessed be everybody take care 0.99

00:48:03.240 you must be a witch 0.98

00:48:08.900 if you want to support the missing witches project join the coven find out how at

00:48:16.380 missingwitches.com or buy our books new moon magic and missing witches and check out our

00:48:24.440 deck of oracles the missing witches deck of oracles

Missing Witches - October 17, 2024

WF Mel Gutierrez AKA The Body Witch - Your Body Is The First Temple

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