Missing Witches - WF Sister Roma： Is There Anything Gayer Than Religion？

00:00:00.000 If you want to keep the Missing Witches Project alive, join our coven.

00:00:03.780 Buy our books, New Moon Magic, 13 Anti-Capitalist Tools of Resistance and Re-Enchantment,

00:00:10.040 and Missing Witches, Recovering True Histories of Feminist Magic. 0.93

00:00:14.720 Or just spread love. 1.00

00:00:16.820 Plant a seed. 0.97

00:00:18.580 Be a witch. 1.00

00:00:19.700 You aren't being a proper woman, therefore you must be a witch. 1.00

00:00:22.900 Be a witch. 1.00

00:00:24.080 Be a witch. 1.00

00:00:24.520 Be a witch. 1.00

00:00:25.340 Be a witch. 1.00

00:00:25.660 Be a witch. 1.00

00:00:26.420 You must be a witch. 0.98

00:00:27.720 yeah well i live in downtown san francisco so i've had several sirens and things in the 0.81

00:00:34.160 background too it's always interesting i don't mind the background noise of my guest because

00:00:39.880 that's just part of the immersive experience but like i don't need to hear somebody's toilet

00:00:44.480 flushing or unless it's yours and i'm gonna leave that in i think

00:00:51.280 hello and welcome to another episode of the missing witches podcast i'm amy and i'm so

00:01:01.320 honored thrilled beyond belief to welcome into our circle today sister roma the world's most

00:01:08.400 photographed nun also the world's most glamorous beautiful intelligent world-changing benevolent

00:01:15.720 and inspiring nun oh my god really are you sure i don't know i'm sure maybe not of all time but

00:01:26.500 certainly in in our current landscape i i will i will put all of my money that no one can find me

00:01:34.400 a more inspiring nun in the world right now not since the death of mother theresa who was hella

00:01:39.660 problematic anyway. Yeah. I heard she was a real bitch after all, right? I mean, kind of, I don't

00:01:45.220 know. But yeah, now that she is gone, I can pretty confidently say I am the most photographed nun in

00:01:52.160 the world. It's trademarked. And if you Google it, there I am. So it's, it's, if it's, if it's

00:01:58.360 online, it's true, right? Well, obviously. So who is Sister Roma today? Can you tell our listeners

00:02:05.960 a little bit about who you are, what you do and like who you are today. Well, I just came from

00:02:11.680 the gym. I tried to go. So today I'm sweaty and I'm trying to add 10 minutes to my life by doing,

00:02:18.320 you know, 30 minutes of cardio. I, I am in a really good place to be honest with you.

00:02:25.040 I'm 60 years old and I feel fantastic. Like I have made some real important changes in my life.

00:02:33.480 uh like the last 10 years like I went got sober which I think was a huge life-changing decision

00:02:40.480 for me it was really turned out to be one of the best things that I've ever decided to do

00:02:45.240 um I take very try to take good care of myself like I try to eat well and exercise and I

00:02:51.780 I um I have a lot of fun I just I feel really really really lucky I I have to ask I think a

00:03:00.520 lot of our listeners sort of struggle with their own sobriety or lack thereof do you have any

00:03:06.060 advice for how you've how you've made it well I always you know I wish I had some kind of like

00:03:12.040 secret or magic magic phrase or potion that I could give everyone but um I've just learned that

00:03:21.400 you really just have to be done and everybody seems to have a different rock bottom and I think

00:03:28.580 that when you hit it, you'll know. And because like a doctor can't tell you, look, you need to

00:03:36.080 quit this because, you know, your liver or blah, blah, blah, or whatever. I mean, I did speed for

00:03:40.420 like 15 years. Like I loved crystal meth. Like I was really a big fan of that drug. And I started

00:03:47.380 out doing just a little bump before going to the club, like on Saturday nights, my friends and I

00:03:54.200 could make a quarter of that stuff last for like the whole weekend and then you sort of start to

00:03:59.440 do more and then like oh let's get an eight ball you know and the next thing you know somebody's

00:04:03.180 like do you know you can smoke it and I'm all like what and so someone showed me first the first time

00:04:07.720 I ever smoked meth was out of a light bulb you break the end and then you put it in a light bulb

00:04:14.540 and you light it and you take a straw to the end so for a minute that was sort of my party trick

00:04:19.940 And then stores just started popping up like plentiful in San Francisco, right in the Castro, where you could actually buy glass pipes and crystal meth became a huge drug of choice in the community.

00:04:33.640 and I'm very lucky that I made it out with my teeth and my sanity and I never lost a job

00:04:44.340 because of it and I I am I only did it because I like it was fun like I did it because I hung out

00:04:53.700 with a group of people who did it we had a great time with it sex was a big part of it 0.97

00:04:58.620 but when it started to take a really negative toll on my health and I was like oh shit 0.99

00:05:03.640 like, this is not fun anymore. And I'm so fortunate that I was just able to put it down. 0.98

00:05:09.960 That was, that was like almost 20 years ago. Like I just said, you know what? I, I was almost 300

00:05:16.620 pounds. I, my skin was just broken out in psoriasis. It was horrible. I could barely walk up a hill

00:05:23.240 and I had to, I had to make that change. And I, I just stopped because I never did it because I,

00:05:31.200 felt like I needed it to be social or that I needed it for any other reason. And then when

00:05:37.120 it stopped being fun, I was done. So I realized that there are a lot of people who have a much

00:05:44.760 harder time stopping their drug and their CMA and other things that you can do to try and get the

00:05:49.400 help that you need. I suggest that you talk to people about it and keep busy, find ways. Well,

00:05:54.940 I decided that I could keep drinking.

00:05:59.760 So I did drink like vodka sodas and continue to party in that way.

00:06:04.660 And I just cut out the crystal.

00:06:05.960 And then after a while, after I had enough drinks, I'd be like, you know what?

00:06:09.720 I think I'm going to get some Coke.

00:06:11.820 Wouldn't that be fun?

00:06:12.800 You know, so I was like, am I really better?

00:06:16.260 You know, I mean, like it was just like swapped one for the other.

00:06:19.720 And so finally, like 10 years ago, like I said, I just gave everything up. 0.98

00:06:24.940 I have given up hard drugs myself, and a friend of mine asked me about it, and I said, the only thing I'm really addicted to is doing whatever the fuck I want. So when I didn't want to do it anymore, I didn't.

00:06:38.640 Yeah, I hear that. I love that. Right.

00:06:41.680 And I guess this leads into like this notion of perpetual indulgence, which you've kind of dialed back.

00:06:48.460 But like, can you tell our listeners who are meeting you for the first time through this podcast, like what are the sisters of perpetual indulgence?

00:06:56.640 Oh my God, I don't know. 0.54

00:06:58.380 Those freaks, I mean, they're just causing problems everywhere.

00:07:02.020 You know, I will say that honestly, one of the things about crystal meth and any kind of drug use or addiction is it's very easy to lose yourself in the addiction.

00:07:10.400 and especially crystal can consume a person

00:07:13.820 and it becomes your best friend and your lover

00:07:15.620 and the only thing that you think about all the time.

00:07:18.420 I, I've been a sister for 36 years.

00:07:21.780 So I was obviously using drugs and partying

00:07:24.340 for the majority of those years.

00:07:27.640 And I think that the sisters saved my life

00:07:29.880 because what the sisters do

00:07:32.900 and what I always strive to do

00:07:35.100 was to be of service to the community

00:07:37.000 and to look outside myself

00:07:38.600 and look outside and see others who need help.

00:07:41.620 And you don't have to look very far to find somebody

00:07:44.240 that you can volunteer for, that you can show up for.

00:07:47.960 And that's what the sisters do.

00:07:50.320 Honestly, we just sort of look around our community.

00:07:52.720 We look around at other communities

00:07:53.920 and see how we can be of service.

00:07:56.240 We raise a load of money, like a shit ton of money,

00:07:59.260 and we give it away.

00:08:00.840 We have a grant cycle that's actually open now.

00:08:03.300 If anybody's listening who could use like $1,000 to $2,000

00:08:07.280 for your little grassroots underfunded organization you can go to the sisters.org and apply

00:08:13.160 for a grant right now and um you know we support lgbtq arts and trans youth and women's health and

00:08:22.400 uh hiv aids obviously that's really where the sisters found their focus like they were the 0.99

00:08:30.020 sisters started in san francisco in 1979 and it was really just sort of a like a fuck you 0.97

00:08:36.780 to the queer community. There was a group of guys who were very closely associated to the radical 0.74

00:08:42.140 fairies. And everybody, not everybody, but a lot of the gay men in San Francisco were very like 0.99

00:08:49.360 butch. There was a lot of leather jackets, a lot of flannel, a lot of handlebar mustaches. 1.00

00:08:54.840 And one Easter weekend, this group of friends was like, you know what, this is boring. I have these

00:09:01.420 old nuns habits that I borrowed, quote unquote, from from a convent in Iowa that was Ken Bunch, 0.98

00:09:08.960 Sister Vicious, Fire, Hungry Bitch. And they put on their habits and just went out to fuck with 1.00

00:09:14.820 people. Honestly, that's really what the sisters were. And Vish likes to say that everywhere they 1.00

00:09:20.780 went, they created like psychological car crashes. Nobody had seen men dressed as nuns. It was it 0.60

00:09:27.720 hit people on so many levels there's like you know women it brought out all the misogyny and 0.99

00:09:32.220 all kinds of crazy shit in people and they sort of realized that they were on to something 0.98

00:09:36.980 so they called a few more friends in and they came up with the name and the logo that we still 0.83

00:09:44.040 use today it's all the original stuff and then around like 1982 HIV AIDS started to ravage the

00:09:51.200 community. And that's when the sisters really found their purpose. I have a quote from Sister

00:09:58.720 Unity of Los Angeles. Yes, you said, the one thing that the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence have in

00:10:06.440 common is that we feel what we call a calling. You see the sisters, you see the flamboyant color,

00:10:13.560 but you also see the service and activism, and it inspires you to join in. It lights a candle

00:10:19.780 in your heart. So can you tell us about that calling, about that time in your life when

00:10:25.140 the sisterhood lit a candle in your heart? I absolutely agree that it is a calling,

00:10:32.500 and I believe that sisters are born, not made. I was Catholic college educated. I actually,

00:10:41.620 can I tell you something wild? I was adopted, and I was left to the care of a Catholic adoption 0.98

00:10:47.920 agency. So in my earliest, like before I was like in my weeks and months old, I was cared for by

00:10:55.140 nuns. And my mother and her husband, I can't call him my father, um, went around to adopt. And my

00:11:03.960 mother says that she, our eyes locked when I was in the crib and she just knew. So, um, that is

00:11:10.640 where, like, I guess where my affinity for nuns comes from, maybe. But, um, I went to a private

00:11:17.260 Catholic College, and in four years, I honestly never did anything civic-minded or spiritual. I

00:11:23.380 didn't volunteer for one thing. In high school, I was active. I was class president. I was very

00:11:28.580 active in different activities, but I never did anything for other people. To be honest,

00:11:35.100 I was completely self-centered. I was an only child, probably insufferable to a lot of people.

00:11:41.100 I moved to San Francisco, and I was just like a gay kid in a gay candy store. I just lived this 1.00

00:11:46.020 wild hedonistic like i had all the sex i could get i boozed it up like i had a blast

00:11:50.640 and one day i was in at the midnight sun on castro street and um it was happy hour so we

00:11:59.000 were all standing this is like 1985 we were all standing around in our power ties and it's a video

00:12:05.960 bar so there's these giant screens and you're watching people are like looking up at the videos

00:12:09.660 they're playing Designing Women and music videos and the bar door just flew open and this creature

00:12:15.740 walked in and for the first time that that I can remember that evening everybody stopped talking 0.77

00:12:23.860 and stopped looking at the video and she just had the attention of the whole bar and she looked like 0.97

00:12:28.080 this crazy like clown drag queen nun and she walked up and she knew the bartender by name he gave her 0.97

00:12:36.180 a drink and she was smiling and laughing and she just seemed to know everybody and she walked up 1.00

00:12:41.000 and she said hi michael which is my birth name that i never use and um i was like do i know you

00:12:47.460 and she said it's me norman and i go what are you doing because norman and i had been friends like

00:12:53.580 she was a bartender in the fillmore and we were out of control together like we would take so she

00:13:00.500 had all this booze at home all the time so we would take all the booze from like under her sink 0.92

00:13:04.480 and just pour it into a trash can and take it out to the gay softball games and get everybody 0.99

00:13:09.540 hammered. And we called ourselves the cheerleaders from hell. And then we would go out at night and 0.99

00:13:13.800 maybe do some Coke and bring boys home. Like we were really good friends, but she never told me

00:13:18.040 that she was a sister. So when she walked into the bar that day, I was like, what the fuck are 0.99

00:13:24.200 you doing? She goes, I'm sister luscious lashes. And that was my introduction to the sisters. And 0.99

00:13:29.980 And so I was I was intrigued and she introduced me to a couple more.

00:13:35.100 And then I started to volunteer with them as it just in my boy drag selling pom poms like at a basketball game, you know, whatever, whatever needed to be done, basically.

00:13:45.760 And one day we were going out to cheer for the softball for the Eagle softball team.

00:13:50.720 And she just sort of innocently said, why don't you just try the makeup?

00:13:54.120 And I was like, I've never, ever in my life thought about doing drag.

00:13:58.700 like it just was not me i didn't think and i i totally i was like i don't have anything to wear

00:14:05.940 i don't know how to do it but so she showed me how to put on like the white face and then she

00:14:10.500 put me in front of the mirror and she said just paint whatever comes out and it was a my very

00:14:16.500 first face and my face for a few years was very uh graphic i was i'm a graphic artist by trade

00:14:23.500 so it was very angular very sharp triangles um big bold like hard blush and like it looked like

00:14:31.320 war paint which was very fitting actually for the 80s because we were at war we were all fighting

00:14:37.180 for our fucking lives we were fighting for medication and for education and for fairness 0.83

00:14:42.000 and for our community's health really so um that is when i realized oh my god like i then i went 0.98

00:14:51.060 about the history of the sisters and I met the other sisters and I had never met such an eclectic

00:14:55.920 crazy passionate smart brave group of people and I was like my head exploded and I was like oh my

00:15:03.780 god I care about every I care about people I care about my community I I want to get involved I want

00:15:13.340 I care about my civil rights I care about all of these things that I didn't know it's like I

00:15:18.800 honestly I just I'm so emotional right now talking about it I I it changed my life you know and I

00:15:25.640 just it really I was Roma was born in that moment and that's sort of what I've strived to do I've

00:15:32.420 strived to make the sisters that came before me proud and to be a good representative of the

00:15:38.820 sisters worldwide and uh make the world a better place if I can you know whatever I can do I feel

00:15:46.060 like i'm talking a lot am i no i want you to i want you to talk and talk and talk and i want you

00:15:50.740 to ignore my questions and see whatever comes up for you i want you to talk and talk and talk i

00:15:56.780 ideally i would just sit here for the next half hour and listen well that would be boring it's 0.93

00:16:01.980 like it's not my fucking ted talk i'll ask me something ask me something else oh well if you 0.89

00:16:07.900 were gonna do a ted talk then what would it be about what would be the name of your ted talk 0.92

00:16:11.820 So I, my best friend who's been my friend for like 30 years of Michael Ewins, AKA Chante Bouvier, has been on me to write a book for like probably 20 years. A lot of people come up to me, go, you know, you should write a book. And I'm like, don't people say that to a lot of people? Like people, you're like, girl, you should write a book, all these things that happened to you. And I'm kind of like, should I? Like, I, you know, does it have, where's the beginning? What's the end? All these things start to flood my mind. And I'm like, I just can't.

00:16:41.500 So, but I do have a name. And if I did write a book, it would be called Party of None.

00:16:50.940 Is that cute? Is that good? I mean, I like that. Yeah. So, you know, maybe that would be my TED

00:16:57.140 talk. I don't know. It's so funny because I actually have like in my list of questions,

00:17:01.580 if you have ever thought about writing a book, I mean, I've been doing research on the Sisters

00:17:06.020 of perpetual indulgence for the podcast and for this interview and I kept thinking like I wish

00:17:12.640 that Roma had written a book that could just be you know like your own personal history but also

00:17:19.340 the history of the sisters there's some stuff out there academic focus that kind of thing and

00:17:24.840 yeah millions of articles and interviews but I would buy it I mean you're guaranteed at least

00:17:31.040 one royalty check if you do decide to do this well that's the thing that I'm sort of trying to like 0.99

00:17:35.880 I'm like, you know, don't aim for the New York best, best out, like, calm down, bitch. You know, 0.99

00:17:41.320 if you wrote a book, it would be very personal. It wouldn't have a mass appeal. It doesn't even

00:17:46.040 have to be that good. But then I, I, but then the other side of me, that's very, you know,

00:17:52.920 like, I always want to be the best at everything if I can. So that's kind of where the conflict is.

00:17:58.060 But I think I have to sort of write it from the heart, which is how I tend to do everything.

00:18:02.140 I that's how I try to approach everything because I just think you have to be genuine and you just

00:18:07.420 you have to be honest and people seem to relate to that because you people could smell phony 0.79

00:18:13.660 bullshit a mile away I know I can but um so yeah maybe I will you know I then I have this like 0.94

00:18:20.080 imagination like well when I'm um can't move or I'm you know incapacitated or frail and old I'll 0.96

00:18:29.080 sit down and finally write it all down um but then you can't really i mean what would i do with the

00:18:34.560 money if i if it makes money i mean i want to be able to still have fun i don't know can we change

00:18:40.460 the subject yes if the book made money you would give it away i think we both love it oh yeah

00:18:45.900 definitely some of it oh my god wouldn't it be so fun to have a ton of money can you imagine like

00:18:50.800 being a billionaire i'd be i'd just be walking down the street going hey i hear you got a lot

00:18:55.460 of kids here i actually i've honestly done that before yeah i was in the grocery store and my

00:19:01.280 mother had sent me this is like years ago and my mother had sent me money for christmas and i had 0.53

00:19:06.180 a few crispy hundred dollar bills in my pocket and i saw this woman in line next to me and she 0.96

00:19:10.580 had three boys and she just looked hassled and hairy and it was the holidays and she you know 1.00

00:19:15.720 she was trying to load the things out of the cart and the kids are running around screaming i was 0.62

00:19:18.840 like i'm gonna give this woman a hundred dollars i just i just had to like i just had to and i

00:19:25.920 walked up to her and i'm like i hope you don't mind but i would just love to give you this for

00:19:29.940 the holidays and i handed a hundred oh no no no no she goes i don't need it we don't need it

00:19:34.600 and i was like please just take it and i walked away and i was like she probably has a lot more

00:19:40.820 money than i do but you know i just had to do it like it really wasn't even about the money i just

00:19:46.220 I don't know I just I really love um seeing parents like I live in the tenderloin and you

00:19:53.960 know there's people are talking about the tenderloin a lot lately and there's this whole

00:19:57.440 talk about how it's a doom loop and it's so dangerous and I've walked through the tenderloin

00:20:02.800 in drag out of drag a million times and honestly I've never felt in danger here but there's a lot

00:20:10.540 of unsavory behavior going on there that's true there are people who are in fentanyl like comas

00:20:16.400 there's drug open-air drug markets and it's shocking to see and it's i the the reason that

00:20:22.660 it bothers one of the reasons that bothers me the most is because there are families down here

00:20:27.120 like and so when i would see parents walking their kids to school through the tenderloin i i those

00:20:34.420 are those are like my heroes i'm like these people are really doing the lord's work like this is

00:20:40.680 really great stuff you know if there is such a thing as the lord but anyway you know what i mean

00:20:46.520 whether or not there is a lord there is definitely the lord's work i use that phrase all the time

00:20:52.460 when i really feel like i'm doing the right thing i i was raised in the church too so you know i

00:20:58.360 still have the terminologies and they're just the ones that kind of come out of my mouth but

00:21:02.600 I think there's no question in the world that you are doing the Lord's work.

00:21:07.100 No question in my mind at all.

00:21:09.580 I mean, if you take the like, yeah, okay.

00:21:12.900 Yeah, I think I'm doing good work.

00:21:15.340 I do feel that.

00:21:16.820 I honestly feel that.

00:21:18.080 I'm very proud of it.

00:21:19.280 It brings me great joy.

00:21:21.100 Honestly, I think it's one of the secrets to happiness is to be of service to other people.

00:21:27.000 Because every little bit that you give out, like, you know, I spend like three hours getting

00:21:31.240 ready.

00:21:31.520 I know it's ridiculous, but God, I look good when I'm done.

00:21:37.400 And but every but I feed off the energy that that gets from you, the feedback that you

00:21:42.920 get from people, the joy that people express and every little bit that you give out any

00:21:49.460 kind of volunteer service that you do, it comes back to you like a thousand times.

00:21:54.360 So when when I'm out and people, you know, throw compliments around or offer, you know,

00:21:59.060 scream hello or whatever and i i that's what i'm there for it makes me feel so wonderful to see them

00:22:06.460 be happy and then when they come up and ask for a photo or a selfie i literally will never say no

00:22:12.020 so that's where the my tagline like the most photograph none of the world comes with if you

00:22:15.980 can i tell you like the true backstory of that please please do i um i was an emcee at the

00:22:23.520 Folsom Street Fair for 15 years with Heglina. She and I were the two grandmasters of the

00:22:29.940 Folsom Street Fair main stage. Yes, she would always bring her T-Shack show. And we had a

00:22:36.120 fabulous time doing that together. And one year it was like unseasonably hot, like 89, 90, in the

00:22:43.820 90s. And we had been working all day and I was finally done. I was off stage and I had on some

00:22:49.780 heels. And I wanted to try to walk to my friend Jay's house in the mission and my feet were

00:22:55.100 killing me. And it was just, I was over it, you know, and people were coming up asking for photos

00:23:02.000 and I would stop. And as usual, my friends that I was walking with were like a mile ahead of me

00:23:07.740 because they're now they're just, they're like over, they're like, fuck you, girl. We're not 0.99

00:23:11.320 going to wait while you do this. But I got to my friend Jay's house and I threw myself in a chair

00:23:16.780 and I went oh my god if one more person asked me for a fucking photo oh I'm so over it and he just 0.97

00:23:27.140 looked at me and he goes well you better enjoy it because one day no one will and I just went 0.99

00:23:33.500 literally my face cracked and I realized what an ungrateful awful I was just I was like oh my god

00:23:44.180 You're so right. And I vowed, honestly, from that day forward that I would never say no to a photo.

00:23:50.820 And I don't like, why would you? Right. Yeah. Back to volunteering. There's this like it's

00:23:57.300 like capitalist myth that no one will work if not for money. So can you you've already kind of

00:24:03.320 answered this, but I want you to expand more like under the the weight of individualism that I feel

00:24:09.760 is like growing like a like a shadow um how how does volunteering benefit not just your community

00:24:18.800 but like you can you tell our listeners like how volunteering makes your life better not just the

00:24:26.000 lives of the people in your community yeah well if you you know how about you can go on facebook

00:24:30.860 and be like i volunteered all day serving meals just so people can know how great you are um but

00:24:37.740 that's that's that would be a person who is in it for the wrong reasons probably um i but i do

00:24:47.160 share when i do volunteer work because i want people to know that this opportunity is there

00:24:52.160 and the thing that that honestly the thing that i've learned because i have honestly volunteered

00:24:56.300 during the holidays there's a group called tenderloin tessie's holiday dinners

00:25:00.080 and every easter thanksgiving and christmas they open the first unitarian church and they invite

00:25:06.720 people from who live unhoused from the community in different situations different levels of

00:25:11.920 addiction and struggles to come in and have a holiday meal obviously i don't do it at easter

00:25:16.140 that's a big day for the sisters uh we can talk more about that later but uh thanks for

00:25:20.800 thanksgiving and christmas honestly that is like basically my holiday um i love that event i stand

00:25:26.340 there in drag we welcome everybody in we seat them at tables of eight so it's family style

00:25:32.000 there's entertainment going on and they are served like they're a guest at a restaurant like

00:25:37.580 they people we bring them food and then on the way out they can stop and they get care packages and

00:25:43.220 then now we've recently in the last few years added huge tables of donated clothing that they

00:25:47.620 can pass through on the way out and honestly some of those people obviously the volunteers

00:25:54.020 many of the volunteers that from the community and outside the community who work there have

00:25:58.200 become like family friends you know that i see every year but also the guests like these people

00:26:03.540 you know like and then i'll see them outside of the of the event and now we have a connection

00:26:09.900 and i just it just to make someone know that they're seen

00:26:14.860 and that they're cared for is so

00:26:26.260 it's so important and it it really is it just fills you with um joy when you see them light

00:26:36.240 up and when you see them recognize the fact that they know someone cares because in their day-to-day

00:26:42.140 like people don't see them like people you know and when you hear somebody outside screaming on

00:26:48.820 the street it's very tempting to be like oh god okay we got another one you know crazy but

00:26:54.820 But they're they're in pain and they're struggling.

00:26:59.680 And one of the greatest joys is to reach out and make a connection with another living human being.

00:27:05.020 And that can take a lot of different forms.

00:27:07.240 You know, you don't there's so many ways to volunteer.

00:27:10.060 There's so many different great organizations.

00:27:12.980 I saw one video.

00:27:15.020 I believe it was the San Francisco sisters who were just out in the street, you know, hugging people, hugging people. 0.98

00:27:24.280 that others might not want to hug let's just say the unhoused you know and it was so fucking 1.00

00:27:32.240 beautiful just to see this like drag nun being more of a nun than the nuns that we're used to 0.95

00:27:40.220 and going and doing like you know to use another religious term the laying of hands like i really

00:27:45.420 feel like that that these hugs that i was watching on youtube were like healing yes i absolutely so

00:27:52.420 One of the main reasons that I knew I had to join the sisters is because when, before

00:27:58.760 it was even called HIV AIDS, people didn't know what was killing the community.

00:28:02.520 And it would pop up in this horrible manifestation where your healthy, beautiful friend would

00:28:08.960 be thriving one day and the next week they would have lost, they'd be emaciated, they'd

00:28:13.960 be covered in purple cancerous, you know, the huge lesions.

00:28:17.480 and people were freaked out because there was so much shame and stigma around it they didn't know

00:28:23.600 what it was what caused it how contagious it was so these people lost their jobs they quite often

00:28:29.700 lost their homes they dubbed their friends were afraid to hang out with them or even touch them 0.59

00:28:35.440 and the sisters would walk into like a gay bar in the Castro and way in the back darkest corner you

00:28:42.440 might find someone sitting there, clearly, obviously stricken with HIV and AIDS. And

00:28:50.620 they, sisters would sit down and engage them in conversation. And quite often at the end of that

00:28:58.340 talk, the person would just be like, can I have a hug? And the sisters always said yes.

00:29:02.920 And that's when I knew that I was with the right group.

00:29:05.600 yeah and 36 years you said you've been a sister yeah so how has i mean obviously our perception

00:29:14.720 of hiv and aids has changed um prep is a thing which it wasn't 36 years ago um but how has the

00:29:22.500 how have you personally witnessed the political landscape i mean a lot of our listeners weren't

00:29:28.920 even born 36 years ago they have no no frame of reference for what it was like it to be queer or

00:29:37.020 or to exist in the world at all so how how do you perceive the world having changed or the pendulum

00:29:44.620 having swung back and forth i love that you bring the pendulum because the pendulum swings both ways 0.87

00:29:50.980 and it's swinging back right now but it was um scary as fuck i mean like literally like young

00:29:58.680 people were just dying and nobody knew why and it felt like nobody cared and nobody was doing 0.94

00:30:04.560 anything like we were like um there was a real sort of a feeling that it was killing all the 1.00

00:30:11.060 right people it was killing prostitutes intravenous drug users and faggots like who cares 1.00

00:30:14.980 and that was that was real so we we had to take drastic measures the sisters were one of the 1.00

00:30:22.920 first groups ever to produce a safer sex pamphlet called playfair really honestly the first in the

00:30:28.300 world to use like plain plain language and humor it is the illustrated pamphlet with with nuns

00:30:34.140 talking about how to avoid sexually transmitted diseases and we still publish it today um

00:30:38.960 but it it was it was terrifying and it felt because when i so i moved to san francisco from

00:30:48.260 grand rapids michigan which is a lovely place to be from and it's a much more it's a bigger uh more

00:30:54.380 I think inclusive city then but at the time it was like you can't be gay here like really like

00:31:00.480 are you kidding me queen and I could not not be gay you know so I did some student teaching I was

00:31:05.460 like god I'd love to be a teacher but I'm like I can't be a teacher here so um that's one of the

00:31:10.340 reasons that I moved to San Francisco so I could be my authentic self but you know the lovely my

00:31:14.380 lovely friends in Grand Rapids were like oh you're moving to San Francisco you're gonna get AIDS

00:31:18.300 and it turned out that I couldn't have moved to a better place because this is where this was the

00:31:24.980 epicenter of of educating the community and fighting back and I met the group that was

00:31:29.980 that were on the front lines of the war against HIV AIDS and I joined that group

00:31:34.540 so it would absolutely was the best place that I could have moved I'm so fortunate that that was

00:31:40.040 the path that that I that came to me and I followed um so it was it was very very scary

00:31:46.840 And then we have fought hard for the progress we've made.

00:31:49.600 And thankfully, the disease is no longer a death sentence.

00:31:53.320 It's people live a very long, full, beautiful life with HIV AIDS.

00:31:58.620 And now, like you said, we have PrEP so that if you don't have HIV, you can take this pill.

00:32:04.200 And I'm not saying, you know, you're a cured girl, go out and do whatever you want, because

00:32:08.800 there are still other sexually transmitted diseases, which are not fun, which you can

00:32:13.780 get.

00:32:14.200 PrEP is only good for one thing. 1.00

00:32:15.660 But the sisters, in addition to the play fair, were very big with the condom ministry. We had to convince our community that safer sex was hot and it was the way to go. So we, oh my God, I have no idea how many condoms we gave out. Like crazy. But none of that happens anymore, really. I mean, we do still do some condom ministry. We still talk about safer sex practices, but it's definitely different. 0.94

00:32:40.240 on the subject of safer sex I'm so glad that we've come around to this because um we had a

00:32:48.260 very lively conversation in one of our coven meetings recently about ethical pornography 0.88

00:32:52.700 and until today I have never had the opportunity to speak to a pornographer slash nun so I want

00:33:02.520 to know about how how those two roles like intersect and and impact each other I haven't

00:33:09.640 watched any of your work i'm sorry i'll i'll get to it i'll hook you up i'll hook you up i'll give

00:33:14.560 you a little membership you can check it out but like uh is safer sex like a theme in in what you

00:33:21.600 produce so i mentioned my best friend michael ewins uh for 30 years we've been friends well

00:33:27.980 the way that that shantae came to san francisco was they managed a gay bookstore in scottsdale

00:33:35.560 Arizona and they booked actually Shishi LaRue Shantae booked Shishi LaRue on her first ever

00:33:42.900 out of town gig like Shishi was huge in LA but Shantae booked her to come to to Phoenix I think

00:33:49.240 to perform and um they became fast friends so Shishi recommended Shantae to work for Falcon 0.80

00:33:56.140 Studios which is the world's number one leading most prolific you know porn studio ever gay porn

00:34:01.600 and um they moved her out to san francisco and i was a host in the vip room at colossus this big 1.00

00:34:08.320 nightclub south of market and i was just walking through the vip and there was this drag queen 1.00

00:34:12.520 standing against the wall in like this she looked she was wearing these big gold cuffs and this red 1.00

00:34:17.940 white and blue like top and she just i i just walked by and i go get it wonder woman and the

00:34:24.060 next thing you know we found ourselves at the end up in the morning and the next day i think i brought

00:34:29.400 burgers over to her place and we just have been like best friends ever since and it was that

00:34:34.080 chance encounter but she's the one who introduced me to the adult industry um i used to own a

00:34:40.900 magazine called hype and we needed images for the cover because we learned really quickly that nobody

00:34:46.400 in the gay community picks up a magazine unless there's a hot dude on the cover so we i went to

00:34:52.700 steven scarborough who i'd met through shishi and shantae who was the owner and director at hot

00:34:57.740 house entertainment to beg for images he was more than happy to let us have whatever we wanted

00:35:03.560 and then i started doing some freelance graphic work for steven at hot house and he eventually

00:35:09.960 hired me to work in the art department and i worked my way up to art director there

00:35:15.040 and then hot house got bought by falcon naked sword and now it's we are like the world's 0.84

00:35:22.400 largest conglomerate gay porn studios and brands, I'm the creative director now. So I've worked in 0.93

00:35:29.160 the adult industry for over 25 years. And so when I started in porn, all of the studios that I was

00:35:35.760 associated with were condom only. Like the people that worked in the gay porn industry, especially 1.00

00:35:43.700 Shishi LaRue, Steven Scarborough, were very conscious of the fact that we needed to show 0.85

00:35:50.380 the community how to protect themselves and then it was still hot like you know you can still you 0.99

00:35:55.040 can put on a condom you can still fuck like crazy it can still be messy it can be sloppy you know 0.99

00:36:00.420 it can be fun it can be raunchy it can be whatever you want it to be you just use a condom and so for 0.97

00:36:07.240 every studio that i worked for with condoms until just like a few years ago we finally decided that

00:36:13.500 we were at a place where it was safe to stop using condoms and we you know we got our toe wet we did

00:36:19.680 Like one condom feature with no condom.

00:36:22.340 Because like, honestly.

00:36:23.380 Was it your toe that you got wet though?

00:36:26.480 Come on now.

00:36:27.760 Just the tip.

00:36:28.340 We just put the tip in.

00:36:30.380 And people really, I mean, some of the hottest studios during that time, there were studios that did not use condoms.

00:36:38.380 They were very controversial.

00:36:40.100 They were facing all sorts of backlash.

00:36:42.040 The performers were often criticized. 0.94

00:36:45.080 But meanwhile, people were watching the fuck out of that content.

00:36:48.500 like people loved it um so we knew that people would prefer to not see condoms and it's um

00:36:56.680 proven to be true like our movies now do not have condoms and uh it's business is booming

00:37:03.500 business was especially booming during covid girl everybody was home and horny and it was like oh my

00:37:08.300 god so um but yeah i think that it can be very ethical we're very conscious of uh being inclusive

00:37:16.320 and the diversity. We're careful to make sure that our cast represents our audience. We want

00:37:22.320 people to see themselves in our movies. We want to make sure that people of color are front and

00:37:27.380 center. We have beautiful exclusive models from every race. We've cast trans performers. It's 0.89

00:37:35.080 been a really great way to be a nun and to be involved in porn because the two worlds actually

00:37:42.860 meld really well. The fact that I worked for these condom-only studios was great for the

00:37:49.000 sisters' message about safer sex and the way to remain healthy, but without shame and without

00:37:54.500 guilt. And then it was also a great way to get money for the sisters and to get donations and

00:38:01.280 prizes and hot models to come to our events. It's been a very lovely marriage. It really has. It's

00:38:07.800 been great. And then I got to do all these fabulous events in the adult industry. I've

00:38:11.600 traveled all over the world basically um hosting queer events i'm a reg i'm the host of the grabbies

00:38:17.740 in europe in tourmalino spain you know just these incredible opportunities that have come up and i'm 0.69

00:38:23.100 just like really and then when they see the sister roma up there i of course have to talk about the

00:38:27.920 sisters and talk about i'm a political person by nature so i talk about the importance of

00:38:33.460 because people can get um comfortable you know i think that people have gotten comfortable

00:38:38.780 people who were like you said weren't born back when i was doing all that fighting for our rights

00:38:45.920 people people can get married now you can serve in the military like all those battles have been

00:38:50.400 fought and won but the important thing to know is that they can all be taken away with a strike of

00:38:54.940 a pen and if you don't believe that you can wake up tomorrow with less rights than you've had today

00:39:00.100 ask a woman yeah you know what i mean yeah ask roe v wade yeah so um that's the the new mission 0.82

00:39:07.820 is to get the newer generation the younger queers out there like motivated and to make them realize

00:39:13.340 that it's you know yes we have all it's great to be gay but it's it's also there's so much as we've

00:39:19.460 seen with the legislation the 500 bills the anti-lgbtq anti-drag legislation and then the

00:39:26.720 way that they're attacking the trans community is absolutely horrific it's that they're taking

00:39:32.160 the page right out of like nazi germany um it's it's an attempt to to eradicate and just eliminate

00:39:39.680 and exterminate really it is you know they don't you can't say anything about it you can't talk 0.82

00:39:44.140 about it you can't now they don't you can't hang flags you can't have drag queens and it's all for 1.00

00:39:49.100 the children it's all to protect the children which is such bullshit it's such bullshit it is 1.00

00:39:56.280 such bullshit because these are the same people who are kicking their kids their 14 year old kids 1.00

00:40:00.660 out onto the street like how is that protecting children and taking them to gun shows and taking 0.99

00:40:07.440 them and you know MAGA rallies and big truck rallies and like you think you're not grooming

00:40:11.960 your kid I don't you know you're welcome to raise your kid any way that you feel see fit that's

00:40:17.900 you're right as a parent um but if you are a parent who decides that you want your child to

00:40:23.260 know that there are people in the world who are queer and trans and you want your child to grow

00:40:27.840 up in a world being coming from a place of love and acceptance and tolerance maybe you want to

00:40:33.240 bring your kid to a drag queen story hour to hear these great stories about these two same-sex

00:40:37.640 penguins who may who were partners for life like is that you this is the hill you're gonna die on 0.99

00:40:42.720 right now while your kids being shot up in school like get fucking serious yeah um i mean we don't 0.93

00:40:48.720 have to talk to talk about the dodgers palava if you don't really want to i'm sure you've talked 0.91

00:40:53.980 about enough about it this year but um it's it's so interesting to me that it seems to me that the

00:41:01.540 mission of the sisters of perpetual indulgence should be the least controversial thing in the

00:41:08.040 world it's like spread love help people um i i don't even know what my question is because it's

00:41:17.580 so baffling to me well because you're confused about by what people choose to be offended by

00:41:22.040 yeah and and now people we live in this weird like fake world where people get offended by

00:41:29.080 everything and they just think it's their right to come out and point fingers and protest and

00:41:33.580 scream about how their rights are being taken away and being abused and their freedom of religion is 0.99

00:41:38.980 being assaulted and it's like i don't give a fuck what religion you are i would never storm your 0.98

00:41:45.440 church and tell you that you can't believe or worship however to be honest i think that it's 0.97

00:41:50.200 very important to find something to believe in and to that brings you hope and comfort and if it's

00:41:56.940 if it's a being an evangelical christian honey have it like have a field day lay the hands 0.98

00:42:03.720 the snakes whatever it is you fucking do do it but you know don't and turn around and tell me 0.99

00:42:10.140 what i can and can't do and then take it and take it to the the ballot and then vote away my civil 0.99

00:42:16.380 rights because my existence is not a threat to your right to believe whatever you want to believe

00:42:24.240 to your religion. The sisters are not mocking nuns. We are nuns. We're not mocking religion.

00:42:30.480 We're mocking organized religion. Actually, if you are somebody who decides to weaponize your

00:42:36.860 religion and take the word, the gospel, and use it as a way to oppress someone else, to take away

00:42:44.220 someone's rights to exercise your misogyny your racism your homophobia your transphobia 0.72

00:42:49.020 i'm making fun of you girl to be honest i'm making fun of you i'm not making fun of your 0.97

00:42:53.520 god your religion your nuns i'm making fun of you and you you grew up under catholicism so you know

00:43:00.360 what you're talking about and i i have to read this quote and i have you respond to this you 0.79

00:43:07.180 said this so oh it shouldn't be too shocking to hear let's face let's face it religion is campy

00:43:15.380 it's pomp it's circumstance it's burning purses that smell like incense it's candles and stained

00:43:22.400 glass windows and robes and brocade is there anything gayer than religion true though right

00:43:30.840 i mean find the lie hello i think and that that to me is what is so beautiful and exciting and

00:43:41.240 very much related to um you know the label that i've chosen for myself being witch um is the it's 0.95

00:43:47.740 this intersection of reverence and irreverence because being a sister is very it's no fucking

00:43:53.700 joke like you've got to go through you know many steps i could list them all but i'll save that for

00:44:00.500 another time many steps to actually be like an official sister it's very serious and you have

00:44:05.660 to do fundraising and you have to do volunteering but you also live on the other side of the coin

00:44:12.200 of reverence and irreverence where like everything is available for delight i guess maybe it's a can

00:44:18.980 you talk about um the intersection of reverence and irreverence and how that plays a role in your

00:44:25.220 life or or in your sisterhood yeah you you're so right on it some sisters it takes it can take

00:44:32.560 anywhere from like eight months to two years or longer to fulfill the requirements the process

00:44:38.860 that we ask of people who aspire to be sisters um and there are certain things you have to spend

00:44:45.400 time in our archives you have to have a novice project which is usually a fundraiser not

00:44:49.340 necessarily but you know we don't we're we're a group of very eclectic group as you can imagine

00:44:56.580 gay straight every color every race every every belief um but um we so while on one hand we're

00:45:04.300 very eclectic and we are sort of rule breakers and rebels we do also kind of have to have rules

00:45:08.580 and we do take vows to never take ourselves so seriously that we forget to have fun but we do

00:45:14.300 have a very serious mission like we do some very important serious work so i've always kind of

00:45:19.920 thought of it as being like a double-edged sword sometimes because um and i back to the dodgers

00:45:26.700 like i understood the reason that the the brass at dodgers like freaked out and withdrew the

00:45:32.180 invitation to the sisters i honestly did because there was because when i worked with san francisco

00:45:37.200 giants on pride celebration so i know you work with like there's a group who's made up of queer

00:45:43.300 people right sometimes some a couple queer people there's queer you know we're everywhere and um 0.52

00:45:48.460 they're like oh we're gonna plan the pride night for the for the dodgers and they're like well

00:45:52.500 let's honor these people oh we have to honor those sisters they've been in los angeles for 27 years

00:45:56.360 they do the great work and they sort of wrote it somewhere in an email and somebody went approved 0.98

00:46:00.640 and then fucking marco rubio sends a letter and all of these crazy christians who decide to be 0.98

00:46:07.600 offended by the sisters like just lose their minds and the people at the top levels of the 0.99

00:46:14.280 Dodgers freaked out and like oh my god what did we do we made a mistake we have to disinvite these

00:46:18.720 people and then our community came back and our supporters and people outside of our community

00:46:24.960 including religious people and just all sorts of amazing support for the sisters came back and all

00:46:30.760 of the other organizations that were part of pride with the Dodgers pulled out they're like you're

00:46:35.340 not you can't have you can't be selective you can't have performative pride you know if it's

00:46:40.420 all or none the lgbt center pulled out that everybody so they had no pride night so they

00:46:46.620 kind of were forced to invite the sisters back and that was lovely and i believe that they really do

00:46:54.940 believe that they made a mistake i think they learned more about the sisters but it's that

00:46:58.980 double-edged sword where just just to look at us walking down the street if you have no idea

00:47:04.260 like who we are you're like is it october 31st you know you're you don't know like it's people

00:47:10.700 are going to have a myriad of reactions i always say i can walk down the street from one corner to 0.98

00:47:17.560 the next and down here i'm a faggot i'm a freak you know what do you then you move along and it's 0.98

00:47:22.460 like oh what are you supposed to be or you know is it halloween or you know and then then or i can 0.99

00:47:26.740 be like oh you look great i love your costume i love your costume thanks you know and then it's

00:47:31.820 like oh your makeup and then it can get you can be like hey sister roma oh my god i love you or

00:47:36.540 hey sister you guys are great you know or so the whole block long of reactions i haven't changed

00:47:43.360 like it's been me the whole time what's changed is people's reactions to me so the thing that i've

00:47:49.020 learned probably the most in 36 years is that people's reactions to me say more about them than

00:47:53.660 they do about me so the double-edged sword thing is like you you don't know what reaction you're

00:47:58.940 to get from people because when they see us it can go a lot of ways especially with dogs but um

00:48:03.620 so you know i but i think that once people take the time to get to know us and learn about who

00:48:09.560 we are and what we do uh then they're like oh okay you know what i kind of get it like these

00:48:14.980 we want you to um to realize that if we can run around looking like this you're free to express

00:48:22.080 yourself and be authentic and celebrate life and bring joy in whatever way that you feel

00:48:27.920 that you are compelled you know like that's really what it is we've already gone over the

00:48:34.800 time that we said do you have a few more minutes oh oh god always how long is this supposed to be

00:48:39.480 yeah we said 45 minutes and we're at 50 now so i just want to honor your honor your time okay

00:48:44.700 we'll do a very busy girl very very busy girl i know well like literally you are and until you

00:48:49.380 told me that you did speed i was like where does roma get the energy and now like okay now now i

00:48:54.420 know where Roma got the energy for all of it I want to ask in our email exchange leading up to

00:49:01.420 this conversation you wrote let's fly like the witches we are so obviously that filled my

00:49:07.980 personal heart and I'm just curious like what do you what do you think of the word witch oh my god

00:49:14.360 I love it are you kidding witches are real witches bring so much beauty and joy and positivity and

00:49:20.760 good to the world how boring would the world be without which so there are some sisters who are

00:49:27.040 very witchy like they're super witchy like they have the medallions and the they know the different

00:49:34.880 they know the cantations and they call the spirits of the east of the and those i love to have those

00:49:41.220 sisters i'm all like girl this is all you come on step up i need one of your witchy blessings i need

00:49:45.620 some of your witchy magic but quite often when those sisters are doing that thing they'll be

00:49:50.940 like we need roma and they'll call me up so they recognize in me that there is definitely some like

00:49:56.660 witchy energy going on and i get off on it and i agree like i honestly i think i can't even explain

00:50:04.620 like how uh magical my life has been the opportunities that the people i've met the

00:50:11.400 things that I've seen the places I've gone to be invited to do a podcast like this like who am I

00:50:16.800 like this is just it's so beautiful and magical and there's just this beautiful witchy energy

00:50:22.620 that just flies around and it's beautiful it is yeah I I feel like there's definitely like a

00:50:28.680 connection between the sisters of perpetual indulgence and and those people who consider

00:50:32.840 themselves witches I mean we talk about witchcraft as like that point where our spirituality our

00:50:38.860 politics and our creativity meet and i think that that's true for the sisters as well politics

00:50:45.720 spirituality and creativity it's sort of it's all it's all in there and it's to me it's also

00:50:52.540 just sort of this inner peace and knowing like if you know your intentions if you know your own

00:51:00.360 intentions and you can dial in to like all of the energy out there it's that's truly magic

00:51:08.220 it really is how can our listeners promulgate universal joy and expiate stigmatic guilt

00:51:18.140 well you have to join the sisters i mean that's just that's what we do

00:51:22.220 uh you know just honestly it's just it's all about being grateful and looking around and

00:51:30.540 finding joy in the little things every day is not going to be you know halftime at the super bowl

00:51:37.260 Every day is not going to be a birthday party.

00:51:39.480 There's not going to be confetti every time you walk into a room.

00:51:42.360 But sometimes when you're in a hurry and you catch every green light, that is a reason

00:51:46.900 to be happy.

00:51:49.140 That is your witchy energy.

00:51:51.320 That is your spirit guides looking out for you.

00:51:53.820 There are miracles around us every day.

00:51:56.680 And just trying to feel that joy and to let other people know that you're happy to see

00:52:01.500 them and to let people know that you're happy.

00:52:03.520 If something good happens to you, share that with people.

00:52:06.340 If something unfortunate or sad happens to a friend, call him up, let him know you're there.

00:52:11.640 Like, honestly, just show up and be supportive and keep your sense of humor.

00:52:16.880 That's really the only way to do it.

00:52:18.520 You have to, because if we don't laugh, we're going to cry.

00:52:22.220 And there are a lot of things to laugh about.

00:52:24.580 If you look hard enough, you can laugh at just about everything.

00:52:28.480 And when you become a member of a community, then it sort of, it's like a shield against that jadedness that comes.

00:52:35.900 I mean, you and I both have spent our entire lives in activism and trying to make the world a better place or a more loving place, I guess is maybe a better, it's a better phrase, a more loving place.

00:52:47.960 But we still have to sort of watch that pendulum swing back and forth.

00:52:54.040 But when you surround yourself with love, it's like it's a shield from when the pendulum swings the wrong way, right?

00:53:01.400 There you go.

00:53:02.000 yeah and that's like how volunteerism pays us i love it yeah i'll open um to the coven for

00:53:11.160 questions if you have a question loves um if you could raise your hand with the little i've done

00:53:17.380 it i'll lower it and raise it again so you can see raise your hand if you have a compliment

00:53:22.100 for the world's most inspiring none we'll take that to you if not um i will i will return to you

00:53:31.120 again, I want to thank you for the Stop the Violence campaign. I want to thank you for

00:53:38.560 your hand in the Safer Sex Movement. I actually, I heard in an interview that nurses in San Francisco

00:53:46.540 at the time were using that pamphlet because the government, because American healthcare systems

00:53:51.620 weren't producing any of their own literature on the subject. So like, I think you said in one

00:54:00.120 interview like these four queers you know talking about the original sisters on the the easter oh 1.00

00:54:06.900 we didn't we didn't talk about evil talk about easter but um how they these four queers these 0.96

00:54:12.920 four queer nuns changed the world and i think you have also done that do you feel that do you feel 0.89

00:54:18.740 like i sister roma have changed the world um i feel like i've made an impact in my community

00:54:27.460 and that a lot of people that I have had considered friends or people that I've met

00:54:33.140 or conversations I've had have had an impact. For sure. Yeah. And people will tell me that.

00:54:38.980 I mean, we all do. I think people, most of us have no idea the effect that we're having on others

00:54:45.580 because, you know, we sort of think, well, I'm just living and doing my life. Like, you know,

00:54:49.740 there's nothing special here. But everybody does. Every person who knows somebody else who goes out

00:54:55.740 and and touches someone who talks to a stranger like you're impacting someone's life we're all

00:55:00.540 doing it it's a collective a collective it really is we are we do have one question will you take

00:55:06.940 it oh yeah of course great hi hi hi um my name's hope um i'm i'm in colorado so you know we're kind 0.68

00:55:17.680 of a cool state at times but we're also a really freaking red state at times and the lgbtq community

00:55:26.340 has you know definitely had a lot of ups and downs especially in the springs that i live

00:55:32.360 you know i live in the springs and uh i've got um several um gay lesbian queer friends up in denver

00:55:40.300 Denver is you know the safe zone um my son 18 years old just came out this year

00:55:48.680 so yeah um and we're still not we're not really talking about it with the entire family yet and

00:55:58.100 that's something he's got he wants to take the time to address on his own it's his story to tell

00:56:05.760 But a comment that you made, Rama, was that the youth today needs to understand what was fought for them so they have these rights that they didn't have.

00:56:20.660 You know, even 10 years ago, God, we couldn't, you couldn't go married. I, I'm 50 years old. So back in the eighties, you know, several of my friends were starting to come out and what we had to fight for, for them to even feel safe in this community was insane.

00:56:44.520 so I am still trying to get an 18 year old son to understand truly what you have been given

00:56:55.640 and what you need to continue to fight for so that those that fought ahead of you didn't fight in

00:57:03.060 vain and that you understand just as you mentioned the comment about women's rights again another

00:57:08.940 topic for me but we're not going to go there right now is how quickly those rights can just 0.99

00:57:14.760 be bashed you know you have the wrong fucking person in the white house that can stack all of 0.98

00:57:22.600 what was supposed to keep us safe and it can just be wiped away right you know yeah it's it can feel 1.00

00:57:31.460 kind of scary it can feel like you sometimes i think i think that most of us are like going what

00:57:37.760 is happening like you know something we'll see something in the news we're like is this real 0.97

00:57:42.640 like what in the hell but first of all let me say um congratulations on having a gay son 0.90

00:57:48.920 and thank you thank you for being you know somebody that he felt safe enough to come to 0.98

00:57:54.160 and tell you that and that you're respecting his boundaries and it sounds like supporting him and

00:57:59.920 loving him and that is really what's going to save his life and that's that's a gift and that

00:58:06.540 is a beautiful thing to see and you know the rest of the family some will both come right along and

00:58:12.060 some won't and you'll you know you'll all figure that out together but you know i don't want i don't

00:58:16.560 want um your son to to feel like um to be afraid or to live in trepidation or feel like you know

00:58:25.020 am i going to be okay i want everybody to feel like they're going to be okay so i yeah i think

00:58:30.660 but that's the thing that one of the battles that we're fighting now is they're trying to squelch 0.90

00:58:34.320 all the black history and lgbtq history and even saying the word gay and education right

00:58:39.640 and that's why it's so important so if you are inclined like there's some great i don't know

00:58:44.840 what the bookstores are like in colorado but in san francisco there's this book called fabulosa

00:58:49.320 books it's on the castro and i'm doing a fundraiser with them they're sending banned books to schools

00:58:57.140 like in red states so we're raising money for that which i think is fabulous but if you're gonna

00:59:02.560 lead people to where we can donate because i want to donate to that that's badass yeah you

00:59:07.360 could totally donate to that but you could also get some books for your kid right like reading

00:59:11.680 is so important and there's so many great books and stories for uh your son to read and to see

00:59:19.060 other people like him and to learn all kinds of beautiful things i mean how exciting to be 18

00:59:23.260 and to have this the whole your whole life ahead of you i hope that his life is just gorgeous

00:59:29.240 me too and he's a gorgeous soul so thank you i just had to say what you said about that um you

00:59:37.360 know just really i've been waiting for my chance to speak so thank you for you know saying what

00:59:44.980 you did because that was really important to me as a parent and and of a child that you know well

00:59:51.940 a young man that is just spreading his his roots and learning about himself more so thank you

00:59:59.440 yeah absolutely nice to meet you hope thank you hope of course we will get a copy of party of

01:00:06.640 none as soon as roma writes and publishes it and we'll get a copy of that for your son that'll be

01:00:13.060 that'll be my gift to him as soon as it comes out i would love that but if you can tell me how to

01:00:19.200 donate to that bookstore. And San Fran is like my favorite place in the world. So I'm kind of

01:00:25.420 jealous there. You said Fabulosa. F-A-B-U-L-O-S-A books.com. And that you can go to the website

01:00:36.560 and you can see all the fabulous books and you can learn about the fundraiser and all that stuff.

01:00:41.340 The front page has books, not bands. That's the link. Thank you. For those of you who are

01:00:47.420 listening we'll put that link in the show notes as well and what about roma people who want to 0.95

01:00:52.880 support and donate to the sisters of perpetual indulgence how can they do that oh yes please

01:01:00.080 visit the sisters.org the sisters.org that is our website we have all the events that are happening

01:01:08.720 we have a meet the sisters section where you can learn more of the sisters and read the hilarious

01:01:13.020 names my name is like the most boring sorry it's just my full name is sister there's no place like

01:01:18.980 rome listen i i was in a hurry like they they elevated me so quickly it was a different time

01:01:25.020 in 1985 i was a novice for like a week and so i have a love for the wizard of oz so that's kind

01:01:31.620 of like where my name comes from but um as you can see the read a little bit off the sistery

01:01:37.200 a lot of more elaborate about some of the things that i've talked about it's a really it's a good

01:01:42.140 website and you can also apply for grants there and donate yes and volunteer even if you're not

01:01:48.140 an official sister they they still accept volunteer help correct oh yeah of course yeah

01:01:54.080 that's especially i mean you don't have to be in the san francisco area i believe the sisters of

01:01:59.260 perpetual indulgence are in a dozen countries four continents something like that yeah we're all over

01:02:05.080 the united states that's for sure and we're in a lot of europe we're in sydney we're yeah it's

01:02:10.000 insane we're like starbucks coming to a corner near you do you have any like closing benediction

01:02:17.920 for our listeners a blessing that you can lay upon us from the great and wonderful benevolent

01:02:23.980 sister roma i will quote drake moment moment for life bless you and i will say that everybody dies

01:02:35.560 but not everybody lives. So get out there and live. I honestly, I cannot thank you enough,

01:02:43.820 of course, for sitting down with me today, but also for just being this beam of light. I think

01:02:50.300 my first exposure to the sisters was maybe Sister Indica, something to do with James St. James's

01:02:58.700 YouTube channel or something like that. And it was the lighting of a candle in my heart,

01:03:04.500 just like sister unity said like who are these people what are they doing and how can i learn

01:03:11.700 more and you know that was 10 12 maybe more years more than that years ago and to sit here with you

01:03:19.260 is like there are no words your your benevolence simply emanates from you and uh they say never

01:03:32.540 meet your heroes and yet here we are here I am more in love with you than I thought I could ever

01:03:37.880 possibly be having read about you and your work I just want to say keep up the great work like

01:03:43.260 you've been a sister for 36 years you're not slowing down you've raised millions of dollars

01:03:48.840 you've saved countless lives you've improved millions of lives and and including my own

01:03:56.380 I I wrote I wrote in the script for the episode that comes before this like

01:04:00.400 one of the greatest things about the sisters of perpetual indulgence is knowing that they exist

01:04:05.980 all the volunteer work is wonderful everything that you do is wonderful but just knowing that

01:04:11.500 i live in a universe with queer drag nuns who are not mocking nuns but who are nuns it makes me feel

01:04:20.160 like it's gonna be okay

01:04:22.340 oh I love that

01:04:23.820 it's all gonna be okay

01:04:24.740 it is

01:04:25.840 it is

01:04:27.180 thank you again so much Roma

01:04:31.060 and I'm sure our listeners will be

01:04:33.360 heading to your website in droves

01:04:35.600 and in the meantime 0.99

01:04:37.360 blessed fucking be 0.97

01:04:39.460 thank you so much 0.98

01:04:42.100 thanks to everybody for listening too 1.00

01:04:43.720 you must be a witch

01:04:47.480 If you want to support the Missing Witches project, find out how at missingwitches.com. 0.87

Missing Witches - September 28, 2023

WF Sister Roma： Is There Anything Gayer Than Religion？

Episode Stats

Transcript