Poog with Kate Berlant and Jacqueline Novak - Cameras in the Cabin

00:00:00.840 Hi, I'm Kate Berlant.

00:00:02.400 I'm Jacqueline Novak.

00:00:03.500 And this is POOG, an ongoing conversation about wellness between two obsessive friends.

00:00:08.200 Two untamable intellects.

00:00:10.000 This is our hobby. 0.97

00:00:10.840 This is our hell.

00:00:11.700 This is our naked desire for free products.

00:00:14.020 This is POOG.

00:00:15.420 Today's topic, loosely speaking, midriff on a plane, re-aggravate, give me a carrot.

00:00:24.560 Hi.

00:00:25.220 Hi.

00:00:26.580 Okay, wait, hello, hello.

00:00:28.240 Hello.

00:00:30.000 know why you say goodbye okay wow first of all today i'm reminded greetings greetings sometimes

00:00:37.160 every now and then okay i'm gonna wait for you to move your chair okay hello i'm reminded today

00:00:45.640 that sometimes it's actually important to not get enough sleep and to we've talked about this week

00:00:52.260 Like, I went to bed at 2 a.m.

00:00:56.220 I had two glasses of champagne.

00:00:58.460 I had caviar.

00:01:01.360 Not going to bed.

00:01:02.800 Did not arrive home.

00:01:04.480 Drunk.

00:01:05.200 But alcohol disrupts sleep.

00:01:06.680 But every now and then, don't you feel like you almost need a night where you didn't sleep well to feel gorgeous?

00:01:13.840 I think Kate Berlant needs a night, okay?

00:01:15.980 where she's reminded that even without sleep, life is possible. Even if the eight hours is

00:01:27.440 broken, that's a little pinprick, a little useful little crack to the terror. I think that relieves

00:01:35.600 you. Now, I think a lot of us have the terror, but I think, you know what it is? I think you

00:01:40.980 actually maintain your schedule pretty, pretty well. Yeah. And so, and make sure you get to your

00:01:46.420 age. And so for you, it's more like most, like maybe most people, you know, they're reminded,

00:01:52.640 you know, three times a week or something because like they live in constant hell and they never

00:01:57.620 get enough sleep. Some of us really fall apart more than others. Yeah. The glimpse, as we all

00:02:03.240 know, wanting it to wash the brain at night. One of the most compelling ideas the last couple of

00:02:08.880 this real washing the brain that i think they discovered it you know what i heard oh i don't

00:02:13.720 know about that okay so what i heard tell me now what i heard and everyone pull over if you're

00:02:18.700 driving is that eye crust in the eyes in the morning sleep as we call it as i do too not

00:02:25.660 everyone does that is literally stuff that your brain has washed and it's coming out your eyes

00:02:30.560 i heard that it's like fluid it's like it's like stuff from the brain that they're like get it out

00:02:36.960 Well, we'd have to look.

00:02:38.060 It sounds like, how could it be?

00:02:39.660 Okay, we'd have to look that up.

00:02:41.360 Early days.

00:02:42.160 This is growth.

00:02:43.100 I didn't text you this.

00:02:45.160 I had a spiral in the night because of ants.

00:02:50.840 So it's unbearably hot in Los Angeles.

00:02:55.580 It's really...

00:02:56.480 Oh, really?

00:02:57.400 Oh, hun, it's been like 100 degrees every day for a week.

00:03:00.260 I'm coming in from New York right now, folks.

00:03:02.260 Just for those who may have seen me in the neighborhood, I am in New York.

00:03:05.560 She's in New York City. 0.81

00:03:06.000 it's been great to run into hags right there the hags are so so vocal in new york i love it but

00:03:11.260 it's um complete end times like it's here it's upon us like los angeles is now palm springs like

00:03:18.000 really dark like really feeling the heat of the end in the air right now and you know ants so then

00:03:26.860 they draw towards water whatever had these ant traps they're empty the other night it's like

00:03:32.740 maybe 10 30 i'm like oh it's a little late and i want to go to bed come in answer swarming the

00:03:37.940 trap swarming the trap out of nowhere i go what where they even come from the trail is out the

00:03:42.680 bathroom and then into my bedroom along the headboard of my bedroom like my bed tough and

00:03:49.860 i'm like oh no i can't deal with this and then i looked up i'm like can i get so you googled

00:03:57.240 before you googled before texting god i wish i actually knew before texting a tribunal

00:04:01.860 I texted my mother and my friend Kimmy,

00:04:07.800 who I had been texting with at the time.

00:04:10.540 And I spared you. 0.94

00:04:13.160 I spared Naomi. 0.74

00:04:14.240 Yeah. 0.95

00:04:14.820 And I was like ants at the headboard.

00:04:18.240 But I was Googling and Google was like,

00:04:21.060 do not remove the traps.

00:04:24.920 Let them swarm so they eat all the poison and go back to the colony.

00:04:27.640 And then something about ants,

00:04:28.780 they are fascinating to watch.

00:04:31.860 Yeah, they really are. So I was kind of on my bed, half hanging off, staring at the ants and

00:04:38.020 horror and fascination. And I have a fascination with bugs. You've always been fascinated. I will

00:04:42.300 request that you do not post them on our feed. Post the ants. Oh, interesting. Don't want to

00:04:47.320 see them. You have to respect other people who do not like to see that suddenly fly across their

00:04:53.080 screen like me. I beg you. I'm already fearing. By the way, I say swarm. It wasn't like crazy,

00:04:59.700 but it was just like, it was enough to be like, Oh God. And then I go, and then I'm like, it's

00:05:05.220 like, okay, lead them. I didn't have new ant traps. I had like half full ones. So I'm getting them to

00:05:10.620 follow along the path. I'm going, I'm going, Kate, a couple of ants end up in your bed. Like it's

00:05:17.080 fine. Yeah. Question for everyone. Ants, little regular black, normal baby ants. Do they buy yes

00:05:24.660 or no? What do you, what's your first thought? My first thought is no. Well, yeah, that would

00:05:28.740 be my first thought too. But then I was with someone recently and they go, ow. And then an

00:05:33.580 ant and they go, that ant bit me. And I go, wait, this blew my mind. I'm like, we're talking about

00:05:38.200 ant bit you, a little run of the mill ant. And then the person's mother goes, yeah, ants bite.

00:05:47.260 I haven't looked that up, but that would rock my world. If ants could bite.

00:05:52.060 You're like, I'm going to pose this. You're like, I'm not going to Google it. You're like,

00:05:54.960 you're like i'm gonna pose it to the community so it's funny instead of googling you pose it to

00:06:00.700 the entire listenership do they bite you're like i have a couple questions this week so you're like

00:06:06.040 like you're like i'm um what's it called i'm um you're like i'm boycotting google exactly

00:06:10.780 naturally so the listeners could tell me what my own zip code is so so the point is

00:06:17.420 it's unbelievable last night i get home appear not an aunt in sight so this is the real science

00:06:24.120 of the ant tramps they they are drawn to the sweet sugary poison they take it back it's really sad 0.99

00:06:31.540 no it is it kills the queen the larva the little tiny baby larva it fucking wipes them out it's 0.94

00:06:37.120 unbelievable technology anyway that's it well it's like yeah yeah it's like um no no i'm i'm 0.96

00:06:46.500 i'm contemplating it with you um i felt the answer wait i also want to say flies if i told

00:06:50.680 about how I've become king of getting a fly

00:06:52.620 out of the house. What, like a horse fly?

00:06:54.660 Like a big, juicy, wet, sick

00:06:56.840 fly? Yeah.

00:06:58.240 I, like, get them out. Like, I, like, carry

00:07:00.780 I've, like, become a master where

00:07:02.300 I turn off the lights except for the light right

00:07:04.640 by the door. They come over there. I open

00:07:06.700 the door. Yeah. It goes out.

00:07:08.500 I'm running. Okay. Not they.

00:07:10.440 One. But it's, like, become, like, where I've, like,

00:07:12.560 freed. It's just shocking

00:07:14.600 because it's just, like, you're, like, okay,

00:07:16.520 bye, buddy. And then you're, like, fuck. I was thinking 1.00

00:07:18.560 today about, like, you know, like,

00:07:20.680 you know, she wouldn't, she wouldn't hurt a fly. And then you think of that phrase and you go,

00:07:24.460 well, sure. I'd like that to be me. Wouldn't that be nice? Well, an incredible invention

00:07:28.660 that is often overlooked, the fly swatter and people think fly swatter, why would you need

00:07:34.560 that? It's called a shoe. It's called a book, the fly swatter speed, the speed and the poorest,

00:07:41.400 the holes in the fly swatter. I see people, I laugh. They're winding up to kill a bug. They're

00:07:48.520 winding up the force of the air toward the winged insect genius it's gonna fly the fuck away

00:07:55.500 you can't do a wind up genius so um the fly swatter the the colander of it all

00:08:03.560 comes at them nary a wind no it's over it slices through the air it's over it's over before it even

00:08:11.400 the silent in the night at least yeah it's it's albert brooks mercy killing david uh 0.98

00:08:17.500 uh cranson the fuck his name is in drive we've talked about drive well you love it because it's 0.98

00:08:25.060 so cali right i love drive so much isn't it california license plate is the ryan gosling 1.00

00:08:30.260 is a piece of cock in that it's crazy um but but uh it's repulsive for some reason 0.99

00:08:38.840 like cock is like a you know redwood tree or something okay that like and he's a piece of it 0.99

00:08:46.920 he's like a like he sliced off a decent amount like he is head to toe meat carved of much larger 0.99

00:08:54.940 cock tree yes yes yes yes i want to um just briefly shout out quite nice oats do you remember 0.95

00:09:03.840 quite nice oats no okay so this was a instagram instagram served me up this business and this is

00:09:12.240 sad because the business has fallen apart they are going out of business due to and you're looking

00:09:16.420 to lift them up just like you wanted to lift up who chocolate but quite nice oats you know

00:09:21.860 this was a good product this is an expensive product and it was and this was my this is my

00:09:27.760 issue with it and i and by the way i'm not dancing on their grave i want i wish them well i feel bad

00:09:31.980 for them because they were like due to tariffs, whatever the price, the price point was too high

00:09:35.900 for glyphosate free organic. Great. You would love this Jacqueline vegan, these packets of oats,

00:09:40.840 fantastic. A turmeric flavor, a cocoa flavor, uh, like really good. Great for travel.

00:09:46.220 Nice to hear that the oats aren't made of a lamb, lamb free oats. And I got an email from them

00:09:52.200 cause I've ordered them a couple of times, but they're subscription based. It's just,

00:09:54.840 it's not feasible for me. And they, and they, I got an email that was like, goodbye. It just said

00:09:58.640 goodbye. And I go, whoa. It's weird because we all get so many business emails, right? It's

00:10:02.980 interesting the business emails that we allow to be pummeled. Like you're like, I'll be pummeled

00:10:06.720 by them. And then the ones you're like, this is too far. For whatever reason, quite nice oats.

00:10:11.200 I've been like, sure, bring it on. They send a really-

00:10:14.160 So do you mean with ads or do you mean-

00:10:15.660 Sorry, emails.

00:10:17.320 Right.

00:10:18.080 And then-

00:10:18.960 And how often are you pummeled? Because there are some businesses where I go, guys, every day-

00:10:23.480 Pummel less and you'll have my dollar. No, I know. Cotton pummels me a lot,

00:10:27.960 but i want a cotton sponsorship k-o-t-n cotton cotton where are you i'm buying you left and

00:10:34.300 right who pummels me because there are some i'm so used to seeing them in my inbox yeah inbox that

00:10:39.620 i don't perceive them and so it's kind of like yeah it's just like trying to scroll through

00:10:45.420 and you're like oh yeah every day goddamn day there are some everydayers and it's like guys

00:10:52.320 you got to pull back it's too much and then sometimes with those you go in and they're like 0.82

00:10:58.100 they're like update your preferences and you're like whatever and then and then um it's like

00:11:03.240 they're like 10 different kinds of emails that they reveal they're sending you right they're

00:11:07.780 like it's they're like do you want all of these and there's there's certain ones that you you

00:11:13.100 just can't unsubscribe but um point is quite night os is having a crazy flash sale where they have to

00:11:19.220 offload all their product and again i feel bad for them they're a small business and i really

00:11:22.260 believe in the product it's too bad they said they're like we just can't afford to make this

00:11:25.820 anymore we'd have to lower we are to lower the price to make it more affordable we'd have to

00:11:31.340 sacrifice the quality of the of the oats the quality of the ingredients and we won't do that

00:11:36.020 so right now there is a crazy flash sale i bought like three boxes i think and right now i did this

00:11:42.040 when kaizen um you know k-a-i-z-e-n yeah they had like a lupini bean pasta i remember a lot of

00:11:50.840 lupini beans in the mix and now there's more lupini bean pastas floating around but i went

00:11:57.200 crazy and bought like i think it was during lockdown i think i bought like 24 boxes or

00:12:02.760 something okay i was like oh my god they're going out of business like i gotta like take it all and

00:12:07.020 then like I couldn't I can't believe like I like fell off my interest fell off yeah and it's a

00:12:12.120 pretty box and then they were like you know taking up space for a long time and um painful

00:12:18.560 you know and I made some that you know it was past the date and I was like it's not good I know

00:12:24.180 it's past the day it's gotta go it's fine no but it's a little past it's fine I was thinking

00:12:28.900 sorry I was just reflecting today again and I know I've brought this up in the past but you know

00:12:34.860 classic question what is a podcast okay of course what is it okay and i was then i was going back to

00:12:40.660 my old thing which i bring up once every two years which is when did it start getting called that i'm

00:12:45.480 not wishing to google this okay but my theory is that it was you know not theory but what i know

00:12:51.140 you have a genius theory ipod okay back in the day so they go are you ready for this yes that's right

00:12:56.840 that's what it is for sure so we had ipods right yeah now we had radio and we had broadcasts and

00:13:02.960 we had radio podcasts from your iPod. Yeah. And then they go, you're a hundred percent right.

00:13:07.640 Well, we don't, we're, this isn't a broadcast. Cause it's not going out over the waves.

00:13:11.160 It's a iPod. Okay. And then I was reflecting on how right now, you know, and even in the last

00:13:17.440 couple of years and we'll see how long it takes before, before the cliche falls, right. Before

00:13:23.440 it cracks and falls, which is that, that the word podcast is, you know, punchline, right? Yeah.

00:13:28.580 Yeah. Well, I, I, I dare ask you all to remember a time when the word blog was a punchline,

00:13:35.400 right? Wow. Yeah. Okay. Oh, are you going to start a blog? Your, your wife has a blog.

00:13:41.460 Yeah. Okay. And then exactly. It's the same punchline. Okay. A couple of years down the

00:13:45.600 road. Yeah. And then someone's like, yeah, I bought that house. I bought my house. Thanks

00:13:49.820 to my blog. People start shutting up. Okay. Whatever. They follow the money. And I, my

00:13:55.200 meaning that, you know, using it wrong on purpose. Okay. The point is, it's just interesting.

00:14:01.340 We're in that moment with, you know, saying podcast, saying podcast, bro, you know what I

00:14:06.200 mean? It's just interesting or, or, or it becomes like a news organization, like, or whatever. It

00:14:13.140 just, it just like, or somebody, you know, that you respect has the thing and then you stop using

00:14:17.360 the term disparagingly. It's just funny. I was just reflecting on the old days where, oh, and

00:14:22.160 then another piece of this, the same cycle is there's a period where people think it's too

00:14:27.100 late to start a blog. Okay. And it's like three years into blogs. Yeah. It's not. Okay. Cause

00:14:32.260 then you go 10 years past, you go, Oh my God, I thought it was too late at three. It's never too

00:14:36.140 late. If I had started at three and now it's the same thing with the podcast. I'm going to start

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00:15:34.440 I love to throw it all over my body after I get out of the shower.

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00:15:55.440 There's magnesium in it that's soothing.

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00:15:59.020 So you get that, okay, it's night.

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00:17:25.020 as you know we love cozy earth and this is a really exciting new lounge set that is really

00:17:33.860 thrilling to me so comfortable and also something you can be seen in guys the city scape set i won't

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00:19:03.880 you'll see a quick survey asking

00:19:05.300 how you heard about Cozy Earth.

00:19:06.820 Please let them know you heard about it right here

00:19:08.720 on POOG with Kate Perlant and Jacqueline Novak.

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00:19:20.480 I want to come in here with a quick airline thing, which is you have, this is to me, basic humanity.

00:19:29.660 You have to.

00:19:31.700 I want to guess.

00:19:33.720 Acknowledge.

00:19:34.820 Okay, no.

00:19:35.680 Who's next to you on the plane.

00:19:37.060 So I just want to say, like, I boarded a flight with Delta with miles.

00:19:42.760 I was able to get a... You didn't have to say hello. Go on. Go on. Delta, with Delta,

00:19:48.700 with my miles, I was able to get a free first class one way from Boston to Los Angeles. Okay.

00:19:55.300 A lie flat. I was excited. I get there to my seat. I have an aisle as always. In the window,

00:20:04.500 there is a man aged, I don't know, 40 in his forties. I, he's there, he's on his phone,

00:20:14.060 whatever. That's fine. I'm putting my stuff in sociopathic to not make eye contact is what I

00:20:24.400 would like. Hold on. Here's what you do. You're in a lie flat. You're in a pod. I'm in a lie,

00:20:30.940 side by side we're next to each other are they angled are they not angled they're not angled

00:20:36.980 so we're next to each other really is kind of a seatmate no it's a seatmate it's a hundred if he

00:20:41.340 has to get up and piss guess who he's got to ask permission from okay in a lie flat seems insane

00:20:47.860 yeah in a lie five he had to lie flat yes wait what is this oh it's not delta one uh it's delta

00:20:53.800 a first but the seat goes completely horizontal okay that's why but so it's not a pot to me

00:21:00.700 chatting don't have to chat you don't even have to say words you don't have to exchange words

00:21:05.020 but to me basic human dignity is a nod and i just i and so and that's so natural that when it

00:21:15.600 doesn't happen it's like something's amiss so then i was really fascinated i go you know what

00:21:22.080 empathy. I'm going, maybe this is the worst flight of his life. Someone just died,

00:21:27.060 something. But I'm going, even so, I want to say even the worst day of your fucking life, 1.00

00:21:33.960 you're still in society. It's hard because I really started this journey picturing all the 0.99

00:21:40.660 kind of shaped plastic of a true or a Delta One. By the way, so I, if I can spring forward or get

00:21:49.400 the upgrade i like to be upgraded to like whatever they call their thing god um what i no i'm just

00:21:58.220 like like this like like delta one delta one's a bit much for me i don't i don't need to be suspended

00:22:04.040 like an astronaut okay really like yeah i'd rather just be in first okay in like a big classic first

00:22:12.240 where your arm isn't touching anyone you're dignified okay are you horizontal if want if

00:22:18.020 need be i mean i i don't really feel the need to be i mean i only flying during the day to los

00:22:24.500 angeles right which is what it would be because there are no red eyes to los angeles but you're

00:22:28.820 talking about if there if money's an object i'm talking about if money's no object if this is

00:22:33.600 free you're saying if it's free you're choosing first over delta one there's no cost no if it 0.99

00:22:39.960 were free no no however there was some reason recently where i was like fuck i got fucked like 0.98

00:22:45.860 i was like shit like i was like there was something where i was like oh if i were in i don't know what 0.98

00:22:50.420 it was but but um maybe it was all the floating nuts of delta one i'm not yeah i'm not sure so 0.95

00:22:57.100 i i don't know it's interesting what you're saying yes i seek the um hi okay obviously

00:23:02.780 coach you know what i mean you don't even have to open your mouth you don't have to open your mouth

00:23:05.940 i kind of think you don't have to say hi no right i i'm just giving it to the listener okay i'm just

00:23:11.160 giving the listener what i'm doing with my face so like like okay uh like it's very like gentlemanly

00:23:18.160 kind of like a little little nod good day madam kind of vibe if you can't smile if you're in such

00:23:23.620 a dark place that you can't smile fucking totally fine if i was in such a dark place where i couldn't 0.87

00:23:30.080 even smile you know what i would do wave with my hand nod the head wave is a little i think 0.98

00:23:35.280 a nod, is it? A nod. I just mean- Wave is a little aggressive. I wonder what else you were

00:23:42.160 picking up on. Because I know you're extracting and are extrapolating this principle, this rule

00:23:48.780 of thumb. Humanity is gone. Okay. Humanity is dead if you do not say hello. Is there something

00:23:55.140 else in there? Well, because you know what I saw? I saw- Can't wait. That because he didn't

00:24:01.240 perceive me as a sexual object. If I had been double D's teeny little waist in stilettos with 0.93

00:24:08.320 my suitcase and the tops of my nipples barely concealed by my halter, I think I would have 0.95

00:24:15.900 gotten a knot. And so I was like, so let me get this straight. I don't know. I think sometimes 0.88

00:24:26.440 we look away no okay so maybe here we go okay so basic humanity to keep for that okay you better 0.99

00:24:34.740 be clear you want to fuck her basic humanity is a hello that is at least acknowledges i'm part of 0.99

00:24:44.300 the same community as those with nipples barely concealed right i'm smart of this guy i'm no i'm 0.99

00:24:52.220 market worthy. If I were a businessman, if I were, Oh, I'm a businessman. I'm on a Delta one 0.90

00:24:57.180 flight. I've got a briefcase. Yeah. Then it's almost like he'd be like, like, yeah, like,

00:25:02.780 I don't think those men actually, no, no, I, I, I'll, I could go with you, but I, I'm like,

00:25:08.160 I think it's more, I want to really get into it. No acknowledgement. No. Do you remember what you

00:25:13.260 were wearing? Sure do. A hoodie. See, exactly. No, no, this is my point. You ready? You're,

00:25:20.920 I go, you remember what you're wearing. I'm being funny also. Okay. I don't care what you're

00:25:26.040 wearing. Okay. But you remember what you're wearing because of the insult. Okay. Because

00:25:32.800 the recollection you're having is about whether you perceive how you're perceived. Do you see

00:25:38.340 what I'm saying? You know what I'm imagining? Me doing the overhead, intentionally making it so my

00:25:42.940 hoodie lifts up over my belly button to see if then I get anything. No, I know. I knew when you

00:25:48.220 When you said overhead, I saw your belly button, okay?

00:25:52.740 When you said overhead, I go belly button time, okay?

00:25:54.840 Oh, you know what I did?

00:25:55.580 You know what I did?

00:25:56.180 It's a weird little lie.

00:25:56.760 It's completely absurd, by the way.

00:25:57.720 Here's a weird little lie.

00:25:59.040 By the way, if I see someone's midriff on a plane, I go, no, okay? 0.63

00:26:04.480 I go, I don't mind them if that's their belly shirt, okay? 0.93

00:26:07.780 It's completely unacceptable to have to kind of, okay, it's like, how small are you, okay?

00:26:15.880 if your shirt is lifting above your belly button to get to the overhead i'm like that is 0.98

00:26:21.980 pervert so wait can i can i break down another interesting woman on this flight 1.00

00:26:26.360 so i'm in the first row right classic thing i go to my aisle next to a woman she goes oh 1.00

00:26:32.980 hi would you mind she points over her husband's in my identical seat across the way you know

00:26:36.880 would you mind switching with my husband i go of course you know they go thanks classic trolley

00:26:41.380 problem yeah yeah i go of course and then i do know god you know what the other seat was a little

00:26:45.920 better the way it was angled away from the bathroom do you know i mean i was like i don't

00:26:49.920 care i truly don't care but i was always tough when you realize i know tally is not what the

00:26:54.640 tally scene i was like oh it's a little there so then i have my carry-on kind of at this point

00:26:59.920 heavy wheelie okay and i and he and he's a tall guy he goes ah thanks i go would you mind helping

00:27:06.360 me to put that in the overhead? And he's like, of course. And then I say this. Why? I go,

00:27:13.720 I have a shoulder thing I'm trying not to aggravate. Because you're a sick, twisted liar. 1.00

00:27:19.240 Okay. I have a shoulder thing I'm trying not to aggravate. And then, and then, and then, 1.00

00:27:24.120 and then I act out the shoulder aggravation because I have my Tom Ben and I go, wait, 1.00

00:27:31.060 fuck. Well, I'm definitely going to put this in the overhead myself. So I kind of do, by the way, 0.99

00:27:34.920 His eyes very well may not be on me at all.

00:27:37.940 And I do a little private act out of who would somebody with a slight aggravated shoulder.

00:27:43.020 So I kind of favor one side.

00:27:44.460 And I almost, it's not a struggle, but I kind of do a little like to put it up above in case he's watching.

00:27:52.120 Like you're feeling a little pain.

00:27:52.980 It's weak.

00:27:53.260 Of course.

00:27:53.980 And then when we landed, I go, here we go again.

00:27:57.280 i bring down the backpack imperceptible but like but they're slight favoring of one side

00:28:05.680 here's the thing you as an actor know the intention okay and you're not forcing a gesture

00:28:10.600 on top yeah you're living in the reality and if it peeks through it peeks through thus it not being

00:28:15.540 a caricature exactly hence you know you believe it yeah and then he goes oh do you want me to

00:28:21.160 grab that for you i go yeah would you and then i kind of do this thing of like we're waiting to

00:28:26.140 D plane. And I'm kind of like stretching, like moving my shoulder.

00:28:32.820 Sorry, I'm rehabbing. You know what I've actually done in the past? Sometimes I've had a guy

00:28:41.820 move my overhead or move my luggage to the overhead a couple of times I've even offered.

00:28:47.820 And then I go, I'm like, can I use some of your male strength? I've done a full kind of like,

00:28:52.660 Oh, I've done that a couple of times, but like, can I borrow, can I borrow, sweetie,

00:28:56.020 can I borrow your husband?

00:28:57.220 You know, I've done a whole, I've done a whole roadshow about it.

00:28:59.440 Yeah, like a little bit of Mr. Man here.

00:29:01.900 By the way, they love him.

00:29:03.200 A little bit of big gronny over here. 0.99

00:29:03.660 They fucking love it. 1.00

00:29:04.500 They're a seal with a ball on the tip of their nose. 1.00

00:29:07.440 They're happy, happy, happy.

00:29:09.820 They're clapping at the circus.

00:29:11.240 They love putting the luggage overhead. 0.98

00:29:12.800 Now, I would argue if they love it from the sort of sexualized gender damsel stereotype, 1.00

00:29:19.800 stereotype. Okay. Then you actually don't need an injury. You don't need illness. You don't need

00:29:25.020 infirmary. Okay. It's actually better if there's none. It's okay. If it's your shoulders are

00:29:31.620 healthy, your tits are bouncing. Okay. And simply by virtue of who and what you are, you love a 1.00

00:29:37.960 little bitty of brownie man. Oh my God. I almost spewed out my water. Yeah. Yeah. So, so a couple 0.99

00:29:45.040 things. One, I ask you this all the time when we're together because I watch you unnecessarily

00:29:52.280 produce illness, infirmary, or related or victim. Okay. No, but includes, includes, well, you'll

00:30:00.200 see what I mean. Okay. Or, you know, dramatic narrative to either, you know, request something,

00:30:08.340 right? Oh, sure. Are you ready? And this is what's really funny. He's like, sweeten the deal

00:30:13.580 after almost like what do you mean okay so like even there like he's already lifting it okay and

00:30:19.700 it's almost like it's almost like just to make it feel even more like sort of legitimize like

00:30:23.660 thanks because i'm working on something right yeah yeah yeah trying not to re-aggravate like yeah

00:30:29.760 yeah did you say re-aggravate re-aggravate that's incredible okay because it's like so there was an

00:30:36.880 injury, right? And it's healed, it's healed, but there is a risk that he needs to know about that

00:30:43.580 you could sort of reactivate, re-aggravate. Re-aggravation is a full drama that you're

00:30:48.760 like alerting him to. Yeah. No, there's a story there. There's a history there. Yeah. Okay. And

00:30:53.440 he's coming in at a key moment. All right. So anyway, but no, but what I mean is, and we always,

00:30:58.460 I always tell you about this because it's funny because I always think, I always think, I always

00:31:02.780 go, usually go the other way, which is, cause I always think anytime if I were to do that

00:31:07.960 and I'll give the examples, they'll find it suspicious and more irritated because I'm

00:31:13.880 very, I don't respond well to leverage. Okay. To someone leveraging, you know what I mean?

00:31:19.140 Like, so, so, so for example, classic you and me after I think a poog show looking for dinner, 1.00

00:31:26.180 right? There was a place you wanted to go, right? This is Philadelphia. 1.00

00:31:29.860 Yeah. I think it was Philadelphia. We roll up. There's that fly out. I know that it was.

00:31:36.620 My God. And we got out and it was like, we were looking for restaurants that were open

00:31:44.240 and we found a couple that were open until 10. So we, we arrive at one. Now I don't remember

00:31:52.120 if it was like nine 56 or if it was 10 or three, who cares? Okay. We roll up. All right. I remember

00:31:58.700 some steps, but I could have fantasized them. There weren't steps. There's a maitre d' in a

00:32:02.440 corner. French brasserie. Yeah. Would have been perfect. Would have been fucking perfect. Blocks

00:32:07.420 from the hotel, blocks from the Ritz, blocks from my first Ritz. Would have been perfect.

00:32:15.060 So, you know, you know, you fly into, it's just so interesting. Okay. Cause you fly into, you

00:32:21.360 know, like, um, like little bird, like, okay. Like you're like, there are a couple of performers.

00:32:26.580 okay well no because it went in and i go and you're exactly right it was either they close

00:32:31.940 at 10 it was either 957 or 1002 it was like right because i can't remember because i sort of believe

00:32:38.640 you know like chris if it's like even like 9 30 and the restaurant closes at no then you're like

00:32:44.240 you're yeah it's like but i actually believe like no the closing time should be the last seating

00:32:50.300 essentially yeah okay like tell me when you're willing to seat me and take care of people yeah

00:32:56.300 so because you know whatever otherwise it's like you know uh it's weird like almost to me like we

00:33:02.000 yes we can see you but god don't you love new york city sorry i'm just thinking about new york 0.70

00:33:05.540 fucking city where you sure do it's been midnight you can go to an exquisite go to 0.93

00:33:10.580 okay last night the garden i've done ultra wait wait i need a shout out you sody so are you in 0.99

00:33:19.860 with e-sody now they know you no they don't okay i mean i tried to make an impression last night i

00:33:25.620 tried to make an impression last week or whatever. Well, we'll get into it. Are you texting them for

00:33:29.500 me? No, I'm looking up. But wait, I really want to cover your victim. Okay. Is he kind of like

00:33:37.920 bow tie kind of guy? Yeah. At the front with the iPad. Yeah, I think so. It was really nice.

00:33:46.300 really nice folks it's that time of year you can't just live in a t-shirt and the same pair

00:33:58.520 of shorts no as fall arrives the light summer wardrobe just finds its way to the bottom of the

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00:35:36.940 slash poog. 0.99

00:35:44.060 Hmm. I missed New York. 1.00

00:35:45.300 The point is, you go quickly to, you literally

00:35:47.280 like, you might even bat your eyelashes. I'm not

00:35:49.340 sure. Like, can you believe it? It's real.

00:35:51.320 Batting the eyelashes. Well, no, because I went in and

00:35:53.100 they said, I'm sorry, we're not seating anymore.

00:35:56.080 And you go,

00:35:57.580 we just got off the show.

00:35:59.080 No, I think I actually remember I said, we just got off stage.

00:36:01.440 yeah we just got off stage performance okay okay and it's one of the funniest things because

00:36:10.020 obviously um getting off stage is a is a delight right okay it's like it's like it's like you're

00:36:17.980 like you know it's as if you you you were forced into the business right by a cruel family of

00:36:22.860 entertainers right it's like you're presenting it like a you know like oh god i just got out of

00:36:28.640 surgery. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But no, I get nervous with that. I go the other way. They

00:36:33.380 don't like to be pushed with your narrative. So I'm like, I'm like, like, you know, that that's

00:36:38.060 why I sometimes go like, almost, almost, I expect nothing. I'm not going to like, it's like,

00:36:47.660 it's like your choices are your own, sir. Like to them almost like, almost like I'm not pushing at

00:36:54.160 all like like I'm like I'm like maintaining I'm like not letting my energy like push on them I'm 0.97

00:36:59.120 kind of like you know it's it's it's and it's a call it's a call yeah it's not you know some shit 0.73

00:37:05.940 you just maybe you feel whether it's true or not like you can't pull off like uh I'm trying to 0.92

00:37:11.080 think though do I ever do it but it might also be just really get into it might also be that when

00:37:15.460 I'm with you okay because this is real too I know that you have damsel covered yeah yeah yeah 1.00

00:37:23.780 okay and so I'm offsetting with pragmatic yeah like like yeah of course the little lady can't

00:37:31.260 help herself you know what I mean like but let's talk as men yeah can we be seated yeah

00:37:36.320 yeah I think there's a little bit of that which you love but but the instinct of course I love

00:37:43.640 it but the instinct I mean I guess my my I'm trying to think my version of that like I sort 1.00

00:37:50.020 of walk around like kind of like a slob like like uh I kind of enjoy like wearing these sweatpants 0.63

00:37:55.760 over to the coffee shop in the morning and like I'm kind of like I'm like hey or whatever and I 1.00

00:37:59.540 think like my slovenliness kind of I don't know what I think it does for me I think maybe like

00:38:06.040 it softens I'm like you know what are we you know power power right Carolyn Mays classically okay as

00:38:14.340 we often bring up yeah right so the you don't have the shoulder injury but you're using it right yeah

00:38:19.660 is it perfect you know it's like i know we can't go home without saying we have a headache i know

00:38:23.540 i'm leaving your party now because i'd like to leave your party now and that's amazing no no

00:38:27.660 right so yeah so it's and then her whole thing was you know you know in some case you know it

00:38:33.920 was like some story like mommy you won't let me heal okay because you know the child like understood

00:38:42.040 on some level that we munch house in ourselves yeah yeah so but is it about your own identity

00:38:48.800 is it about this is really interesting this is like this is because it's both right you did

00:38:53.540 brawny and shoulder industry i mean shoulder injury did you do did you do damsel and did

00:38:59.980 you play no i just did i did it was just i wish i oh god i wish i had cameras cameras in the cabin

00:39:06.040 cameras in the cabin would be huge for us although it's like illegal no yeah totally

00:39:11.760 do not film yeah I uh I think I did I think I almost kind of did it jokingly a trade like

00:39:19.800 sure you can take my seat like could you help me with my bag a little bit oh right I forgot

00:39:24.220 and then it was like of course and then I was like thank you I was like yeah I've got a shoulder

00:39:27.800 thing that I don't want to reaccurate so I was kind of it wasn't really damp but it was a little

00:39:32.240 damsel and I you know what it is yeah this is actually really this is really I felt I enjoyed

00:39:38.740 the performance i felt somehow comforted yes god it's deep it goes so deep it is it is well

00:39:45.100 because this is therapy i go oh this is my mother because my mother is such a such an actress

00:39:51.880 in a way that i really relate to of like and her femininity she's so hyper feminine

00:39:58.240 like it's really interesting gender and sexuality in the cabin like i'm silent because i feel like

00:40:07.280 a breakthrough is coming I like held silent I was like I was like don't interrupt Jacqueline

00:40:11.200 no no it's like no no it's not even sometimes just knowing it's there is the breakthrough like

00:40:16.440 there's something certainly deep here but I'm curious okay because I'm very interested in the

00:40:22.160 feminine and the injury okay and where where where the two yeah right so I'm going okay

00:40:27.500 you know and then what's learned right so if you're going because does your you know

00:40:34.480 don't want to, you know, you don't have to answer or whatever, but does your mother have the 0.96

00:40:39.280 femininity? Does she do any of the, is the injury element in there at all? No, if she doesn't do 1.00

00:40:44.580 that. Right. So her feminine, so here's what I'll maybe argue. Her femininity is so sort of 0.98

00:40:49.260 animated easily, let's just say. Yeah. And effortlessly. She doesn't have to. Yeah. 1.00

00:40:54.160 Are you going as a little clown Kate? Okay. I can't quite pull up that femininity. I need 0.93

00:40:59.140 something to add to that okay to bolster yeah totally to help me yeah are you like i gotta

00:41:05.500 throw an injury in i don't know yeah no i think that's right i think it'd be like it'd be like

00:41:10.760 i can do yeah i can do the femininity i don't think you can do it no no of course like it's

00:41:18.540 not that i always need it but i think i think in that instance that's what it was like i'm just

00:41:23.780 imagining okay imagine this okay two like you know forest whatever two rabbits okay and one

00:41:31.760 is like got this like soft fluffy fur or something okay and the other one's like

00:41:36.500 doesn't okay and it's like hi help me yeah give me a carrot right yeah and this one's like

00:41:43.760 give me a carrot okay fluffy one no no sorry the fluffy one's like hi give me a carrot oh got it

00:41:50.000 Okay. And then let's just say like the other one. Okay.

00:41:53.840 All right. Give me a carrot. Yeah. And then, and then this one's like this,

00:41:56.880 look, you ready? And then, and then quickly goes, my arm. Oh, my arm hurts.

00:42:03.680 Oh my God.

00:42:09.440 Okay. That's, is that it? I don't know. It's just one hypothesis.

00:42:15.760 Okay. Okay. Give me a carrot. Give me a carrot.

00:42:18.640 and I got a little shoulder problem oh my god food therapy also though I think there's like

00:42:32.000 you also that maybe you're you're doing like masculine you're doing like like a little

00:42:36.280 quid pro quo yeah yeah totally totally yeah yeah it's kind of interesting how in the public space

00:42:43.720 right you can fly you can almost like fly between utilizing different masks okay within a matter of

00:42:52.740 seconds sometimes to the same person yeah you know he's trying to figure out your audiences yeah

00:42:58.500 yeah you're like you're like and then over like stewardess like um a flight attendant right you're

00:43:04.100 like right my flight attendant by the way you know what she did which is almost how do you feel when

00:43:18.360 they kneel down next to you in radical service well i think i think that is that first right 0.99

00:43:24.900 that's like that's like the promise fuck that's crazy and it is kind of my my my flight attendant 0.97

00:43:30.820 well you know because you know what i really am into or not into i'm just like people are rude 0.99

00:43:35.720 you people were all in our noise cancelling you know the noise cancelling headphones the epidemic

00:43:40.080 it's like you actually do have to move the ear but acknowledge and talk like you mean like i can

00:43:48.600 see other wait do you mean dealing with like dealing with the flight attendants you're saying

00:43:54.520 yeah i'm saying i see all the time people really it's always amazing how rude people are comfortable

00:43:59.200 being right to like a flight attendant or like someone in like a service job or something but

00:44:03.780 it's like i'm like no you gotta like it's a little loud up there sometimes you gotta yell well it's

00:44:09.200 very it's very interesting it's um cabin camera it's like a camera that catches everyone wait

00:44:18.680 you know what it was exciting yeah so you know when a pilot has to piss and oh and he emerges

00:44:24.920 and you go, who's flying the plane?

00:44:26.240 And then they block off the cabin.

00:44:28.900 So this is what happens on every flight.

00:44:31.500 Okay.

00:44:32.180 Question mark.

00:44:33.880 Pilot, I got to take a leak.

00:44:35.800 Yeah.

00:44:36.560 The flight attendant blocks with the service tray

00:44:42.020 or with a little thing, blocks,

00:44:44.220 so that no one can storm through,

00:44:45.980 screaming and crying toward the controls.

00:44:48.320 Cockpit?

00:44:48.920 Yeah.

00:44:49.780 So I see this.

00:44:51.040 This is a classic use of the weaponry of the drink cart.

00:44:54.560 I see her. 0.81

00:44:55.340 I see her move the drink cart, the weaponry of the drink cart.

00:44:58.220 I see her move it and secure.

00:45:00.160 And then I see this pilot, seven feet tall, okay, gorgeous, big jaw,

00:45:06.520 a real American pilot man comes out.

00:45:10.820 He's chatting with her.

00:45:12.560 They're safe.

00:45:13.500 Chatting?

00:45:14.100 They're chatting.

00:45:14.600 And I'm openly staring in awe and fascination.

00:45:20.260 Is it a captain or first officer?

00:45:23.080 Probably first officer. 0.97

00:45:23.980 I mean who fucking knows I don't know 0.96

00:45:26.020 based on the stripes of the thing but I'm literally 0.97

00:45:28.140 like slack jaw staring

00:45:30.100 like I'm in the front so I'm so close

00:45:32.140 and then I almost the steward

00:45:34.140 just kind of locks eyes with me at one point

00:45:36.160 like did she perceive me as a threat

00:45:38.000 I doubt it

00:45:39.320 because I felt her

00:45:41.280 she's holding

00:45:43.760 she's blocking the

00:45:46.200 cockpit I'm staring I go this is

00:45:48.220 fascinating this is the most unbelievable theater I've ever seen

00:45:50.320 here he comes you know

00:45:52.000 Santa's here you know

00:45:53.120 yeah you know he's there he's gorgeous so i'm staring is she facing she's facing out yeah she's

00:46:03.460 kind of facing out okay is there is the tray in front of her or behind no in front of her

00:46:08.980 so she's also blocked by the tray she's behind the tray yeah sorry the cart yeah she's behind 0.98

00:46:15.160 the cart blocking so that she's protected from the waist down she's protected and then

00:46:19.800 we kind of lock eyes it was interesting from like uh yeah mid torso down yeah i'm thinking

00:46:27.320 solar plexus down really right those things are really high he's chatting he's chatting i want to

00:46:33.700 and then i realized i'm wearing a mask so i can't even oh this is interesting too smiling boy here

00:46:39.020 we go smiling behind the mask oh smiling below because that's how committed i am i smile below

00:46:43.760 the mask so hard so that the mask adjusts so someone can see i'm smiling yeah so i do an extra

00:46:49.220 just smile under the mouth and you see it in the eyes you see it in the eyes too you do because 0.98

00:46:53.620 you like crinkle the eyes with a smile right imagine someone like is like so like fucked up 0.95

00:46:58.080 that they like keep the smile down here but they're like they just do it like they're like 0.97

00:47:02.720 you're like oh look they're smiling yeah yeah oh my god so wait hold on a second thinking about

00:47:09.920 botox okay so that that's in that moment he didn't take the opportunity while he was out there to

00:47:14.300 tell you what the lunch special was. Oh, that's so funny. I still, Jacqueline insists that the

00:47:21.280 pilot tells you the meal options. Not every time, but I'm telling you, it's a shock. Okay. You're

00:47:27.360 like, and, um, we got chicken cordon. It absolutely does. It might only be on regional

00:47:36.200 jets. Okay. I'm going to ask Pete Montian, my friend, you can read about some of my,

00:47:40.420 my airline issues on my sub stack well jacqueline novak over here is obsessed with oh yeah not

00:47:48.340 flying on boeing i i won't watch the free fall documentary on netflix because it's just too

00:47:52.840 upsetting there's certain boeings i'm comfortable you know or i like i'm all right with flying right

00:47:57.240 now look it's not it's not perfect system okay but i quickly what are the ones that were made

00:48:01.600 in seattle i don't want any Boeing that was made down in north carolina terrifying so they're like

00:48:06.160 yeah this old one oh my god i think it was it might have been south carolina i don't know point

00:48:10.980 is that's where the the people were like you know the guy went around with the footage and

00:48:15.300 with his camera and said would you fly in these planes you're building and you know the workers

00:48:19.220 said absolutely not it's a nightmare it's a living nightmare um sorry everybody all right

00:48:25.560 sorry to monger but it's fine but it's humorous because you sent me a photo of a screenless

00:48:31.840 backseat, which is also a Berlant classic, right? It's like to receive a text of something that

00:48:40.160 Kate deems unacceptable, right? Captionless. It's like, it's like this. So, so you'll send

00:48:48.440 something like the back of an airplane seat that has no screen, but captionless. You're essentially

00:48:52.860 like, you're like, you're like, you're like this cruelty needs no introduction. Yeah. So it's like

00:49:00.000 sort of funny. Like, cause sometimes it's not clear this, I know you enough to know it's not

00:49:03.820 clear. But I was like, I saw like a three, three 30, whatever. This was hilarious. We have to

00:49:08.920 screen grab that. I'm like, at least you're on a Boeing. No, no, no, no. Bitch. I'm like,

00:49:13.780 I know you're upset. There's one thing you can be happy about it. I'm sorry. Bitch, you're on an

00:49:17.320 Airbus. No, no. That was a really funny text. That was a really, and by the way, it did kind 1.00

00:49:21.400 make me go okay so i've been i um i yeah i forgot but uh bitch you're on an airbus in case we want 0.99

00:49:30.920 to add that in clean yeah um you said you said the good news you're on an airbus the good news 0.99

00:49:37.300 yeah you're on an airbus you'll know even better you said i was so excited you said even better

00:49:41.320 you said the good news that's an airbus baby that's what you said and it really did make me

00:49:45.640 feel better um i got a haha so i felt like you were slightly your mood was slightly improved um

00:49:52.920 this should go on our newsletter if it had like and i don't think it has there's this stuffed

00:49:57.960 kind of bird stuffed animal okay okay and it's so old wait what do you mean that it's shocking

00:50:04.380 let me try to i'm gonna find it and show it to you okay because this is like let me see if i can

00:50:08.720 find it like ancient um oh here it is it's 2300 years old okay so that is a little something we

00:50:20.580 call bc you ready let's send it to you so just think about bc look at this thing you just need

00:50:29.320 people to understand it looks like it was made one year ago okay so somehow it's held up okay

00:50:33.680 I'm clicking.

00:50:34.920 You're saying, sorry.

00:50:35.620 So you're just randomly pointing me to a plush bird.

00:50:38.560 Yes.

00:50:39.160 Sorry.

00:50:39.540 I saw something across the room that reminded me.

00:50:41.540 It's 2,300 years old.

00:50:43.820 I don't think that's 2,300 years old.

00:50:46.200 It is.

00:50:47.100 Literally is.

00:50:48.460 300 BCE.

00:50:50.340 Okay.

00:50:50.940 Crafted with a felt body and reindeer fur stuffing, all of which remains intact.

00:50:56.700 Okay.

00:50:56.980 I need this posted.

00:50:57.760 It looks like something you might see in a high end.

00:51:03.680 um sort of i know what you're thinking how is this going to work on a podcast doesn't matter 0.99

00:51:08.800 all right they're going to see it if they're signed when they get there can you just fucking

00:51:13.220 believe that i'm sorry i was just so taken with this yeah i mean that's crazy wait let me sorry

00:51:18.840 let's wrap it up really quickly with i expect to see all the bell house make sure i'm at my

00:51:25.080 mailing list okay oh got some bell house dates folks jokesnovac.com oh by the way and i need

00:51:31.220 and I need everyone to tune in October 16th

00:51:33.920 to my HBO special, Parmesan.

00:51:35.540 Oh, Jesus, guys.

00:51:37.100 And I need the clicks.

00:51:38.360 Never forget, okay?

00:51:39.820 I was in the room, okay? 1.00

00:51:41.940 This is a huge moment for hags, all right? 1.00

00:51:43.940 I was there live, okay? 0.90

00:51:45.160 The special is coming out. 1.00

00:51:47.600 You're going to go fucking nuts. 0.99

00:51:51.260 It's going to be instant classic across the board, 0.99

00:51:54.420 but you'll be able to say, 0.93

00:51:55.180 oh, I really, I'm a hag and I know her, okay? 0.66

00:51:57.780 So there's going to be a different level for you.

00:52:00.140 Jacqueline. 0.86

00:52:00.540 save the date again, HBO. October 16th, Parmesan. Please, you know what would really tickle me?

00:52:06.520 Watch parties. Guess what? I'm going to be on a flight on October 16th. So I'm going to need to

00:52:11.020 see. Yeah. Send your watch parties. I'll repost. Send the watch parties. Yeah. Send them guys.

00:52:18.520 And then, yeah. And then after it's over, just go over to Netflix and just, you can go to sleep.

00:52:24.100 Just click on a little to get on your knees. Okay. I still want to go top 10.

00:52:27.320 all right um but but priority priority she'll be the new special we um we love you thank you i know

00:52:35.880 we've had a lot of reruns lately life has been overwhelming we've had to do reruns and remixes

00:52:41.580 so so you know in our defense we've had the podcast for five years i think over at this point

00:52:47.840 um so yeah but i've tried to be continuous please subscribe premium subscribers you're

00:52:54.460 everything. You're the reason we have the show.

00:52:56.400 You do. Okay. Love you. All right.

00:52:58.700 Love you. Bye.

00:53:00.980 That was Pug.

00:53:03.240 If you enjoyed Pug,

00:53:04.700 please subscribe, rate, and

00:53:06.420 review. If not, we will press

00:53:08.420 charges.

Poog with Kate Berlant and Jacqueline Novak - October 13, 2026

Cameras in the Cabin

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