Poog with Kate Berlant and Jacqueline Novak - Fight, Flight, Freeze, Fawn

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:00:02.580 Guaranteed human.

00:00:04.420 This is Ryder Strong, and I have a new podcast called The Red Weather.

00:00:08.020 In 1995, my neighbor, Anna Traynor, disappeared from a commune.

00:00:11.960 It was nature and trees and praying and drugs.

00:00:15.780 No, I am not your guru.

00:00:19.420 Back then, I lied to everybody.

00:00:21.720 They have had this case for 30 years.

00:00:24.660 I'm going back to my hometown to uncover the truth.

00:00:28.220 Listen to The Red Weather on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:00:34.340 If you're from the Bay and grew up on the JV Show, then you know Wild 94.9 runs deep in your DNA.

00:00:40.320 Yeah, Wild 94.9 has been the Bay's number one hit music station for years.

00:00:44.500 And every morning we're bringing you the biggest hits, laughs.

00:00:47.740 We've got the biggest giveaways, the day's top headlines, and everything trending in the Bay to start your day.

00:00:52.560 It's all on the JV Show weekday mornings on Wild 94.9.

00:00:55.540 And if you're busy in the morning, you can catch the JV Show podcast anytime, anywhere.

00:00:59.420 Just save Wild 94.9 and the JV Show podcast as your top iHeartRadio preset.

00:01:05.100 Hi, I'm Kate Verlant.

00:01:06.540 I'm Jacqueline Novak.

00:01:07.640 And this is POOG, an ongoing conversation about wellness between two obsessive friends.

00:01:12.380 Two uncameable intellects.

00:01:14.160 This is our hobby. 0.97

00:01:15.000 This is our hell.

00:01:15.860 This is our naked desire for free products.

00:01:18.140 This is POOG.

00:01:19.560 Today's topic, loosely speaking.

00:01:21.320 Chocolate Baba.

00:01:22.580 Clear the walls.

00:01:23.600 The Store Store. 0.99

00:01:25.540 oh hey we're both we're both synced up to our periods yep to each other fuck i just remembered 0.97

00:01:36.540 that i bled through a really prized jean last night well i've like oh no was it a black jean 0.98

00:01:44.540 because i know you've been wearing a lot of black jeans recently honey if it was a black jean would

00:01:47.960 i be upset no i don't know it's right in the center of the crotch so it's not visible to 0.99

00:01:53.620 the outside world exactly i forgot to soak it before bed am i screwed no nope because damn it 0.97

00:01:59.040 who cares also my my fear that i'm slowly losing i mean i think we all have the fear we're slowly 0.91

00:02:04.560 losing our mind but i did the thing last night where i truly it's so scary i bled through them

00:02:09.800 because i forgot to put i thought i put a tampon in and i hadn't i was so distracted that i took

00:02:14.080 the tampon out and then just never inserted isn't that shocking well no considering and then i was

00:02:19.520 sitting at a bar enjoying an Aperol spritz yeah having a I've been really into those

00:02:23.100 animated conversation oh it's for me it's yeah the Aperol spritz has taken off for me

00:02:27.720 yeah and um I felt all hell break loose you felt a drip a drop yeah I felt a no it's I felt the

00:02:36.280 damn break and had to you know oh I was um so sorry to say I was on you know Seth Meyers the 0.82

00:02:44.120 other night oh my god of course and on my period and I was like Jesus what color is his couch and 0.98

00:02:49.240 i was like it's like oh my god it's like really pale gray and i was thinking of like one i was

00:02:54.580 like and i almost hesitate i think i'm gonna do it next time i think next time or you know if i'm

00:02:58.940 on again um i i am gonna just like make a comment about like i'm scared sitting on this i think

00:03:05.460 that's brilliant i think that's so funny because i'm like has period ever been spoken of on that

00:03:10.400 show in that capacity absolutely not i think it'd be huge for me for seth it's very anita franco

00:03:18.200 blood in the boardroom shout out lily marota sorry ow i just i'm sorry oh my god okay hold

00:03:26.420 on let me take a minute with it oh my god okay she's touching you're fine you're safe it's gas

00:03:32.200 okay she's she's touching her rib oh my god i think it's gas okay i think it's gas okay

00:03:39.340 oh oh i just breathe wait breathe such a strong

00:03:44.640 cramp or gas or both cramp cramp not gas not all right hold on breathe relax the laughter

00:03:51.140 won't help you now oh my god wait stop wait laughter is not the best medicine i guess

00:03:57.360 kate's head is completely back shocking your chin looks just like a cat's chin when it's

00:04:02.560 back like that's the exact shape of a cat stretching um she's got two rings she's got

00:04:07.820 lilac she's pressed her fingers against her eyeballs that was crazy i just got this like

00:04:12.900 it's not gas it's like it was like a shooting well shooting also just really quick i don't

00:04:18.180 want to forget because this is kind of funny i went and got blood drawn the other day for a

00:04:21.840 general checkup uh-huh and she was like oh you're overdue for your tetanus shot you got it 10 years

00:04:26.060 ago i was like yeah let's do it yeah i get the shot i come home a couple hours later i reach

00:04:30.960 for this glass in the back of my cabinet in one swift motion boom i reach for it uh-huh there's

00:04:35.720 some psychotic nail that was bursting through no i scream it draws blood it's not like by any means

00:04:42.420 a severe gash but it's right on the knuckle the worst part of the hand because you know it's the

00:04:46.460 constant they're constantly folding usage and i'm like cool so did i just contract tetanus two hours

00:04:51.700 after getting the shot the shot of course doesn't work its way through the system until like two

00:04:55.060 weeks after you get it i assume you googled right yeah when did you google that moment yeah basically

00:05:00.400 yeah you're like okay let me check i have to believe that i'll be fine because i don't the

00:05:06.000 nail didn't seem to be rusty ow sorry okay and um did it but was it just acting up hurt ow

00:05:11.580 and i did hydrogen peroxide and it was foaming i have no consciousness in my body like it's just

00:05:17.400 fascinating because you're so present right that you would just even were able to you're talking

00:05:20.780 about the one pain and then the other pain came in you're like you're like ow okay and i realize

00:05:24.720 i do yeah what this is something that a therapist my old therapist the one who i adored

00:05:30.220 but then he tried to sell me protein powder and it was devastating and so i was unacceptable i

00:05:35.800 didn't come to you for nutrition i know it was devastating and then it's like a ponzi scheme

00:05:39.720 basically it was really devastating oh yeah and i continue to respect him you could you could

00:05:43.460 become a protein powder ambassador yeah he wanted me to be an ambassador yeah and so it was like um

00:05:49.960 goddamn you know what i'm trying to say what's the beauty thing avon he like wanted me to be an

00:05:54.540 avon lady for protein exactly and so but i realized something that i do that i think does help is 0.96

00:05:59.400 and i'm wondering if you do this or if other people do this where i'll be thinking about

00:06:04.520 something i said that i wish i hadn't said right reflecting on some moment that happened the 0.99

00:06:08.880 previous day of like you goddamn idiot like or you went too far you overshared you're like why 1.00

00:06:16.620 are you doing why are you speaking like this to people you took a big swing that's the overshare 1.00

00:06:21.460 like what if you kept it inside for just 45 minutes and let it fucking dissipate instead of 0.81

00:06:26.520 needing it to bring to air for it to be soothed by someone else's by the thought bouncing against 0.98

00:06:32.340 someone else's mouth yes so i'll think about that and i'll go ah oh god why i'll say like i'll say

00:06:39.040 it out loud yes it'll happen in the middle of the night i'll truly wake up and go oh god or i'll

00:06:44.100 wake up and go no right or something and i think that's actually healthy i think it's good to

00:06:49.340 release it and i once had a therapist who said like make the sound i feel like i've talked to

00:06:53.600 about this but if you're feeling if you're sitting in your home and you're anxious about something

00:06:56.940 instead of just being you can go oh this is huge okay this is huge we found the episode folks like

00:07:04.460 let it out like go like oh oh or say like no like say it say it no no no this is huge okay i want to

00:07:12.980 spend a lot of time with this because it helps bottling it up is my number one um you know

00:07:17.900 issue in life since childhood okay this concept of the bottling up right and then the spill

00:07:23.380 as a result. Um, and so to be able to release, let me just think about it this way. Oh,

00:07:29.780 that's easy. You kind of sound like, right. Oh God. Okay. That's you. Oh God. Okay.

00:07:36.920 I feel like I've heard you like say that I'm trying to think, what do I do? See,

00:07:40.560 but I've wondered at times, okay. If juvenile expressions of, I have two minds about it. One

00:07:46.760 juvenile expressions of, of emotions. I've always felt that, you know, in my path out of depression,

00:07:52.580 okay that i have to find my way to feeling emotions and not burying them and thus as a result

00:07:58.740 let myself have tantrums that i think are unacceptable okay because i've had the

00:08:03.980 realization that i just like shut down my life instead of just complaining about something i

00:08:08.500 like shut it down because i'd rather be diseased whatever you can cut this it's way too long of an

00:08:12.820 idea to get into no it's not no it's like i'm not doing it service and so it's just i pull it back

00:08:18.340 So one part of me is like, I have to learn to have the tantrums and be like, wah, OK?

00:08:24.840 Yeah.

00:08:25.780 What?

00:08:26.640 No, I'm just laughing.

00:08:27.640 OK.

00:08:27.920 And then the second part of me wonders at times if certain sort of juvenile slash teenage

00:08:33.720 expressions of emotion are holding me back.

00:08:36.100 So, for example, I had this thought where I was like, I've never seen my father throw

00:08:42.600 himself on a bed.

00:08:47.080 OK.

00:08:47.560 okay and like so i might like be like okay i'm like uh or something right and and i haven't

00:08:55.560 really seen my mother although i did see my mother my mother's more likely to like have a leg

00:08:59.700 randomly up on the back of a sofa or something you know like to sort of be like relaxed in that

00:09:05.400 capacity yeah you know and maybe there's a uh you know men locked in their rigid forms you know

00:09:13.100 whatever. But anyway, I'm like, I'm like, at times like me throwing myself on the bed,

00:09:16.920 like, is that emotionally cuing me up to handle something with stamina? Yeah. Right. Oh my God.

00:09:24.020 I love throwing myself on the bed. I did it recently very dramatically and hurt my neck.

00:09:28.700 I did like a huge, like planked onto it. Like, yeah, like one of those arms out. We have to

00:09:35.380 live in this for a second. I need more. See, cause I actually enjoy the bed to kind of have

00:09:39.840 my arms flat against my side and then sort of leap forward head first and land plank style

00:09:45.820 you know what i'm talking about hurt my neck though yeah i know but but then you have to

00:09:49.680 be careful because if you don't land flat you land on the pillow partially and your neck goes

00:09:53.180 up and that's what happened to me oh no kate that's bad it hurt like a little fish like a

00:09:58.760 little fish on a it hurt but i think like whining and again i remember john early ones this was like

00:10:05.140 funny because john was upset about something this years ago and i was like john like wine like wine

00:10:12.220 to me wine about it oh wow and he was like oh or something and i was like do you want me to teach

00:10:16.840 you how to wine i was like like this oh and he like laughed he was like i know what whining is

00:10:21.100 like he was like i thought i was like oh he's like yeah i've heard you do that and it's hideous

00:10:27.540 like regression and i'm really interested also in this of like regression around romantic partners

00:10:32.900 right and like baby talk yes and that's something that i can absolutely fall into but that is scary

00:10:38.160 because sometimes it can absolutely be of course the death knell to eroticism so i'm kind of like

00:10:42.420 right what is the like what is that balance because there is something also very healthy

00:10:47.140 and okay and healing even about regressing and feeling like a little child in front of your

00:10:52.040 right partner or feeling them like able to nurture you so i think sometimes also this is bringing me

00:10:57.840 quickly too i was with a friend um yesterday who i really love and she's like you know those people

00:11:04.360 that just um she's one of those figures for me she might be the ultimate one not to embarrass

00:11:11.760 her if she listens she's i think doesn't so i'm safe and also she could hear this moving on she's

00:11:17.720 like deeply um makes me feel like i'm the little girl watching my mom and her vanity like put on

00:11:22.960 makeup and being like god she's beautiful what a woman like she's like a aspirational woman for me

00:11:27.820 right and you feel like a little like toad i don't feel belittled i feel like genuinely inspired

00:11:33.700 right and something about even just like aesthetically the way she lives like i leave

00:11:36.900 encounters with her like yes absolutely i too can leave the doors open and hang herbs from my

00:11:43.140 ceiling or whatever like i feel like it's it's aspirational living but anyway she has a very

00:11:48.240 sweet daughter and she was describing to me like cuddling with her daughter all night and being

00:11:53.320 like we just like sleep together we fall asleep and we just like snuggle and she sleeps in the

00:11:56.760 croak of my arm and we like wake up together and it just sounded like the cozy and i was like

00:12:00.100 oh yeah i i underestimate the power of having a child as someone to spoon all night no right

00:12:05.880 once again i i i fear for you okay see because it because because this is once again your fantasies

00:12:13.700 of a daughter yeah serving you serving you what the daughter's there to comfort me yeah and sort

00:12:19.940 of like and i don't even think it would necessarily be a horrible life like for the child right it'd

00:12:24.140 probably like they'd be really close to their mother okay jacqueline jacqueline i'm here to

00:12:28.920 admit i slept in bed with my parents for a long time and then i'm happy to admit this on air and

00:12:34.760 then i didn't want to go to my own room why would i so i slept at the foot of their bed in my own

00:12:39.600 bed wait in your own bed for years you mean was it like a single a single bed god this is actually

00:12:47.760 really helpful to talk about because it's really making me reflect on my position there or a

00:12:51.640 mattress on the floor no a bed i had like it had um a friend twin a twin yeah like a little baby

00:12:57.380 bed i mean how old was i i have to ask well i also used my bottle until really late in life

00:13:02.140 like i had i drank from a baby bottle until i was like five i put cup of cola in it and chocolate

00:13:07.200 milk like it was like my little and i actually have a real strong memory of offering one to a

00:13:12.640 friend who came over for a play date and they were like would you like a bottle no yeah oh my god

00:13:17.700 i was like chocolate baba no oh my god it's genius baba

00:13:23.880 chocolate baba oh here's the thing this has really helped me right now it's to think about

00:13:30.260 my current kind of like emotional issues or my addiction to comfort as we all are addicted but

00:13:35.520 in varying degrees but like i also famously when i was ready to give up my bottles i had my mom

00:13:44.000 film me throw them away i had her break out the video camera and there's footage of me

00:13:48.540 throwing them away and my mom said that i never mentioned them again so i i do know that i actually

00:13:53.960 i do have i have dare i be so bold as to say extraordinary willpower i don't know

00:14:00.220 i think i lack discipline and it's devastating creatively but i um you don't need that kate

00:14:07.620 you're fine okay thank you thank you thank you i mean i'm not gonna i'm not gonna have this

00:14:10.980 conversation with you till 19 I mean till we're 99 right where you're where you're complaining

00:14:17.020 about having no discipline yet you're still like soaring and having a you know grand old time thank

00:14:21.620 you so you're fine I mean I I said when I was 24 discipline is not the word for you it never will

00:14:27.000 be okay no no you're other ways presence right presence is actually more important than discipline

00:14:32.280 for me exactly I believe that but I I whatever I said I'm never smoking again when I was 24 and

00:14:39.380 never has a cigarette touch my lip since and i wasn't like a pack a day but i was packed every

00:14:42.620 other day i was having fun you know at the bar being sexy yeah waking up in the morning with a

00:14:46.540 cigarette and a coffee walking god we must have some cigarettes together definitely outside of

00:14:51.360 wherever god i mean the romance of a cigarette cannot be it cannot be matched i have tried to

00:14:56.640 invent i've tried to imagine i've tried to imagine um what yeah what is it oh god oh god tell me is

00:15:07.400 Oh, I was trying to imagine. I was trying to imagine a cigarette. Yeah. Substitute. OK, so I like to create inventions, you know, and put them in a little folder for a rainy day. And when I when I when I meet a patent officer, when I meet a proper patent officer, we lay them on carefully after signing an NDA, of course. Yeah. But but just something that I was like, is there something that could replace the cigarette? Right. Because obviously a lollipop is not a cigarette. Right. So I go, what are the qualities of a cigarette? Right. Right. What what what what

00:15:37.280 makes going outside for a cigarette so fun a couple things okay there is a and i swear i'm

00:15:43.020 not going to talk about the ice cream cone but there is a similar thing where it is racing okay

00:15:47.240 the cigarette is happening yeah so the seven minute let's say i always think of it as seven

00:15:52.120 minutes even though i think it's it's less probably but for me i think of a cigarette

00:15:55.640 at seven minutes okay and then it's like you go out you're gonna have it out there once okay

00:16:01.240 obviously lighting something fire okay that is exciting there's something there versus pressing

00:16:07.060 a button on a on a you know device caveman yeah yeah well what fire fire just like yeah being

00:16:14.220 captivated by fire the ritual the hearth like right right that's that's right yeah no i was

00:16:20.920 like wait when did they get that it's hysterical though to imagine that poor cavemen they've never

00:16:25.580 once this is interesting they've never once touched a button i don't mean a button on clothes i mean

00:16:33.060 we all know the language of making things work right and you click a button we all know what

00:16:38.920 a button is is there a button in the natural world so many things techno technologically

00:16:44.260 speaking are no extensions of the natural world wait what is that right what did that no remind

00:16:51.800 me of all right we're gonna have to go to a break we have to go to a break but that no really it's

00:16:55.140 something from a movie no i'll get it soon no oh no it's it's my company i got it oh all right we

00:17:02.320 gonna go to break maybe i'll bring that around i've never seen it can you believe okay

00:17:05.360 this is rider strong and i have a new podcast called the red weather it was many and many

00:17:14.920 a year ago in a kingdom by the sea in 1995 my neighbor anna trainer disappeared from a commune

00:17:22.000 it was hard to wrap your head around it was nature and trees and praying and drugs so no i am not

00:17:28.420 your guru and back then i lied to my parents i lied to police i lied to everybody there were

00:17:36.040 years right where i could not say your name i've decided to go back to my hometown in northern

00:17:40.560 california interview my friends family talk to police journalists whomever i can to try to find

00:17:45.820 out what actually happened isn't it a little bit weird that they obsess over hippies in the woods

00:17:50.440 and not the obvious boyfriend they have had this case for 30 years i'll teach you sons of

00:17:56.100 Come around here in my way.

00:17:58.060 Boom, boom.

00:17:59.360 This is The Red Weather.

00:18:02.360 Listen to The Red Weather on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:18:13.860 So the fire of the cigarette is obviously key.

00:18:16.280 The alchemy that something is changing, something is transforming, something we are, you know,

00:18:20.380 I think what's exciting is you're creating the smoke life, right?

00:18:24.240 in the moment. Yeah. Through the combo of fire and the nicotine and the paper. Right. So that

00:18:30.080 you're creating a thing that that has duration. You experience it and you can't just leave it

00:18:35.340 behind or stick it in your pocket. You know, it's there. It's happening. And you've got to step up

00:18:38.780 to the plate of the cigarette. Obviously, the death instinct presence. Right. Yeah. The tiny

00:18:44.940 just hurtling towards death. Yeah. Yeah. Just kind of giving yourself a little nudge in that

00:18:50.560 direction you know it feels as if you've mastered death by encouraging it it's also breathing it's

00:18:56.360 like breath work that's huge like socially encouraged breath work i have felt for some

00:19:00.440 time that that was one of the only places i was getting a deep breath okay and i realized hey

00:19:04.980 maybe i should try this breath cannot be overstated the importance of breathing and yet

00:19:10.380 and yet cannot cannot get excited for it i mean i mean no you know what i can sometimes

00:19:17.560 breath. Like I'm really trying to focus on not what my feelings are, but on what my feeling,

00:19:24.800 how my feelings feel. Whoa, wait, they all need to take that in. So get rid of the language

00:19:31.680 constraining the feeling and go to the feeling. Yes. Because I have, you know, I have a disease

00:19:37.840 of perception. I have a disease of interpretation, right? I am addicted to my own stress hormones.

00:19:42.420 I am addicted to, um, rumination and overthinking and the thought that I can think my way out of

00:19:47.900 anything. You can't think yourself into a better action. You can only act yourself into better

00:19:51.460 thinking. Correct. Correct. So I'm also like, Oh, I, once I surrender and relinquish that control,

00:19:58.680 I can't think my way out of it. Thinking actually won't help me feeling. Sometimes we just have to

00:20:03.040 feel things. And instead of thinking this feeling, what does it mean? What is it just actually,

00:20:08.600 or what did i say i said instead of thinking what a feeling is just think of how it feels

00:20:12.520 where is it in your body yeah you left which is so can be so tedious instead of thinking about a

00:20:17.360 feeling feeling and the feeling i think something just feel it and be like where is this because

00:20:21.160 like and that's something in therapy i've always struggled with when it's like like my therapist

00:20:24.400 is like where does that register i'm like go to hell you know something it's like it's in my tummy

00:20:29.420 i know it's like whatever but it actually is real and the work of realizing that you can self-soothe

00:20:36.780 and that you can bring yourself out of that state is like everything like to me I know that I'm fine

00:20:43.040 but where I land where I land after the self-soothing isn't a place I actually like

00:20:48.080 love being that much that's the problem so let's say like I'm stressed or whatever and then like I

00:20:53.160 remove that I calm down and then I'm just sitting there calm it's like what uh you know I mean well

00:20:59.720 this is making peace with this is like you know that idea that um we're always living at the

00:21:05.460 extremes of either you know chasing or avoiding right in the survival way and then what we're

00:21:10.860 like we're really uncomfortable and bored in the middle where things just are yeah right and so we

00:21:16.740 like desperately search for the the lion okay and as you know i'm very tired of that of that analogy

00:21:23.720 of that being explained um you know that you know well we used to well the problem is that people

00:21:29.820 ancient man was being carried was being pursued by a cougar and today your boss is the cougar

00:21:38.160 and you're not at risk but we experience it we're our bodies still think we're being chased by a

00:21:43.500 lion i'm sorry shake i've realized that i have that i shake like certain like emotional triggers

00:21:50.060 will cause me to shake do you do you shake shake as in a tremble or no no tremble like shake oh

00:21:56.520 tremble yeah when did i have when was i shaking i'm not sure i had some shaking but apparently

00:22:00.480 that's good yeah because apparently that's releasing animals will do that if animals are

00:22:04.860 pursued and like you know and they feel that fear let's say after they're stopping pursued they sit

00:22:10.040 there on the ground and they shake like the adrenaline they like move through the experience

00:22:13.120 and they shake it out whereas we of course don't shake it out right we internalize we just go for

00:22:18.560 we got a mocha frappuccino we got a crispy cream um i felt so emotional because i saw a crispy

00:22:30.980 cream it was closed and i anyway okay i just remember when that was huge when it was opening

00:22:36.080 in california anyway and so the shaking is actually good it's like let yourself shake right process it

00:22:42.360 off you're potentially kind of getting that out wait i i had something oh but the well the tigers

00:22:47.680 and that whole thing right and then oh but so i saw this thing i read this thing somewhere

00:22:52.100 about it was a new piece to fight or flight okay now we've all heard maybe the next piece okay

00:22:59.040 which is fight flight or freeze okay they've started incorporating mentioning freezing because

00:23:03.080 freezing is an option because not all of us i don't freeze not all of us run okay some of us

00:23:09.220 freeze okay however you're ready you're not gonna you're not gonna believe this one okay okay i heard

00:23:13.540 this one from joe dispensa dr joe yeah well actually okay it's not it's not too far off

00:23:20.920 from that are you ready yeah fawn fawn okay i'm gonna let that sit there for a minute fawn f-a-w-n

00:23:28.680 as in fawn over the person i guess okay so here's here's my understanding of it okay and i haven't

00:23:34.140 had a chance to google it at night i've been googling um great i've been brain gut connection

00:23:41.300 at night i googled that a lot last night we'll talk on that okay we have a lot to say on brain

00:23:45.140 gut don't get me started terrified the endorphins in the gut brain okay it's their second brain

00:23:49.960 the enteric system whatever okay so fawn yeah this blew me away so they're talking about animals and

00:23:56.540 it's like the verb we know to fawn over somebody right comes from i guess the verb that of what an

00:24:03.640 animal does fawning over another animal like i don't know like licking it and whatever making

00:24:07.720 it like happy and feel good so i'm like wait that's one of the things the adrenaline spikes

00:24:13.100 and you wildly go into like trying to make the person happy is it the person or is another way

00:24:18.820 for fawning because how i interpret that is like almost fawning over the perceived threat or like

00:24:25.360 nurturing the thought like licking and like and like nurturing the fear well that is beautiful

00:24:33.180 I'm going to look it up because I actually think no exaggerated flattery or affection.

00:24:38.940 OK, I've been there.

00:24:40.580 And it's like that makes a lot of sense to me.

00:24:42.920 Freeze does flight and fight and fawn, please.

00:24:47.760 Oh, wait, maybe I did Google this.

00:24:48.840 It's popping up.

00:24:50.620 Fawn is the oh, oh, oh, here we go.

00:24:53.600 Fight means run from danger.

00:24:54.680 Freeze.

00:24:55.400 Unable to move.

00:24:56.920 Fawn complying with the attacker to save yourself.

00:25:00.140 oh god so welcome to being on stage first of all the audience i mean the adrenaline

00:25:08.880 complying with the attacker to soothe to save yourself yeah so you know the the the lion is

00:25:17.440 upon you and you're petting it you're giving a little a little scratch under the chin pull a 0.99

00:25:23.420 thorn from the lion so that maybe you can he'll follow you through your days um damn that is 0.94

00:25:28.920 that's real anyway i thought it was pretty big news i thought fawn was big news big news when 0.89

00:25:35.440 you apply it if if all these things are like okay we start with a lion right we start with a lion

00:25:39.500 then we apply it to real life okay i froze in my boss's office okay now it's like i fawned in my

00:25:45.000 boss's office is like certainly something a lot of people would do with their cortisol or whatever

00:25:52.180 is yeah is blasting through but the one thing i wanted to say about breathing that i can't get

00:25:58.100 oh i can only get behind it through novelty right right right we know this through the intense

00:26:02.360 breath work right just a common breath throughout the day very um very unexciting to me and then

00:26:08.960 let me just try one right now i mean it feels it doesn't feel physically unpleasant

00:26:15.960 but it does feel a little bit like a dangerous letting go do you know what i mean fascinating

00:26:22.360 like if i let it go then what will happen to me and my life yeah well that's exactly the question

00:26:31.200 what if you did let it go what would happen wait wait but there were there was a forward thing i

00:26:36.380 had and then i looped back but there was something next up in my mind when we're talking about the

00:26:40.720 fawning um oh oh yeah i know go brain gut connection now oh by the way oh by the way

00:26:48.900 mark hyman sent maybe you don't receive because you are in new york pegan pegan pegan shake mix

00:26:55.000 and also something called gut food which i'm very excited to try as am i it arrived at my home before

00:27:00.680 i left well before chris left and so i didn't make him pack it and i just it's there it's there

00:27:08.960 i think i'm gonna start maybe i'll start today what am i waiting for i screamed though he was

00:27:13.720 like pagan there's something pagan here and i was like is it pagan oh my god it's pagan um no

00:27:19.700 mark hyman you know i told you we're in the pocket thank you thank you to the ambassador for mark

00:27:25.180 hyman who said that i'm very excited to get going on that um beyond thrilled beyond so the microbiome

00:27:32.460 the gut microbiome okay we've heard about it i'm ready to face it this is where i have so much

00:27:37.180 resistance what did i say to you this morning i said it's time i said gut it's time brain gut

00:27:42.100 access i said it's time we need to get serious about it okay i completely agree here's the thing

00:27:46.780 it's literally the second brain i know okay it's got twice a year till you die see i i guess no no

00:27:55.060 i get yes i don't even think of that though i okay i know it's not the answer clear the walls

00:28:00.360 i just clear the wall i want that yeah no but we need you want to clear the walls so that the gut

00:28:05.200 microbiome you know can thrive yeah but we need strains we need a power wash and we need because

00:28:11.940 it's disgusting that you know i don't like talking about bacteria okay geez louise who does who does

00:28:19.500 but when it comes down to it i mean when it comes i mean i don't want to think about it okay but we

00:28:25.400 need them and they are it's crawling it's the world is crawling no no no i can't even go there

00:28:31.200 okay those words i can't even go there so the point is probiotics in all the strains okay we

00:28:39.500 need it because, oh, well, here's what happened. Here's what happened. Talk about feeling your

00:28:44.240 feelings. Okay. I was thinking about what is it? This has been a lifelong question. What is the

00:28:51.400 feeling of quote butterflies in the stomach? Okay. What is actually happening? My stomach clenches

00:28:56.220 instantly. Okay. But it's not, but we say the word clench and I don't really mean clench because

00:29:00.280 it's not muscular. You know what I'm saying? So there's, there's these, a variety of different

00:29:04.380 stomach feelings that happen immediately. And, and, and some people like to try to make it too

00:29:08.700 much about digestion as though like oh you're nervous so your digestion's off no I'm talking

00:29:13.580 about the instant yes you know my thumb is scrolling it sees something in my stomach you

00:29:18.520 know from pubis to sternum has a sensation okay and the throat I always get the lump in the throat

00:29:26.060 feeling here's something I want to say have you had because I've had a couple times yesterday I

00:29:30.380 was noticing oh wow this thought or this thing used to give me that like the stomach drop and

00:29:36.480 like the oh god yes and it's not happening right now well that is like so important because then

00:29:43.320 you realize can it i'm like is it time is it the emdr what is it could be the emdr had a explosive

00:29:49.900 emdr session no tell me everything and i know you can't probably say a single word but you can

00:29:55.200 translate it i of course won't give the intimate details of my psyche but i'll just say that my

00:30:00.720 therapist for years was like i really think you'd respond to this i really and i was resistant i was

00:30:04.300 like and then yeah truly two sessions it's really helping me you guys and i think part of it is

00:30:11.640 you know it's kind of like you put into it when you get out of it your belief in it will

00:30:15.500 then invariably like absolutely contribute to how you know or or you don't believe it it works

00:30:21.680 anyway i mean let's let's give the therapy it's potential do maybe that's the case you know but

00:30:25.700 i also think something i'll just say i think there's something about emdr that is just inherently

00:30:30.560 which is okay it's an hour and a half right i'm laying on the couch with my eyes closed okay and

00:30:36.560 even that alone giving attention to like certain kinds of feelings like that or certain like

00:30:41.320 traumas or fears or whatever like that alone is transformative when in life do we do that when do

00:30:45.460 you lay down close your eyes are led through these moments and have like a loving or like

00:30:50.020 have a sympathetic witness there to hear you that's huge and like be with you as you're like

00:30:54.120 crying or going through it like that alone is just so powerful no no wait don't forget where

00:30:58.880 you are because i just want to talk i want to tangent on this for one second so don't forget

00:31:01.980 where you are in the story please okay you're on the you're on the couch but that sympathetic thing

00:31:05.540 the witness to be witnessed okay is obviously a human need okay for your pain to be witnessed

00:31:10.000 and i think that's part of why and you can't go on being witnessed forever demanding people

00:31:14.320 witness your pain you know till you know you you have to come to a point where it's no longer

00:31:18.460 that stage of your healing i think right yeah but um be your own witness imagine well i don't know

00:31:26.440 is that possible witnessing myself i mean it's not enough no it's a different i think this is

00:31:30.640 a community-based need i do sometimes love witnessing myself well certainly okay no i

00:31:36.460 mean i mean you must you must be your own witness throughout the day if you're not then you'd be

00:31:41.220 screaming at every stranger on the street to to save you right as a chair um just fabricated

00:31:47.520 witness yeah wait but i was just gonna say so i was watching um some show where this little girl

00:31:53.460 was saying that the doctor didn't fix her foot or something because it sounds like I'm referring to

00:31:59.240 myself a couple weeks ago on a little girl on a show somewhere but she was like she's like that

00:32:06.460 doctor didn't care there's like five she's like that doctor didn't care and I thought it was like

00:32:11.100 interesting the five-year-old identifying that as almost like the prime issue care like the doctor 0.97

00:32:16.300 didn't give a shit like and the kid felt that you want you I mean it's like I don't know this is 0.96

00:32:21.940 always the question i mean this is bedside manner right yeah bedside manner is more than a customer 0.99

00:32:26.560 service question okay it's it can be integral to healing absolutely i mean if the doctor will not

00:32:33.420 if the doctor refuses to recognize themselves as a shaman then they're going to be a shaman anyway

00:32:41.720 and just be a bad one you see i'm saying fabulous book about this the empathy exam so did you ever

00:32:46.320 read it you'd love it no i just read all the psychopath stuff empathy exams okay we'll get

00:32:51.320 end of that. After the break, I say, you know. This is Ryder Strong, and I have a new podcast

00:32:59.500 called The Red Weather. It was many and many a year ago in a kingdom by the sea. In 1995,

00:33:07.760 my neighbor, Anna Trainor, disappeared from a commune. It was hard to wrap your head around.

00:33:11.700 It was nature and trees and praying and drugs. No, I am not your guru. And back then, I lied

00:33:20.760 To my parents, I lied to police, I lied to everybody.

00:33:24.140 There were years, writer, where I could not say your name.

00:33:27.120 I've decided to go back to my hometown in Northern California,

00:33:29.800 interview my friends, family, talk to police, journalists,

00:33:32.620 whomever I can to try to find out what actually happened.

00:33:35.960 Isn't it a little bit weird that they obsess over hippies in the woods

00:33:38.880 and not the obvious boyfriend?

00:33:40.560 They have had this case for 30 years. 0.92

00:33:43.480 I'll teach you sons of a** to come around here and my wife. 0.90

00:33:46.520 Boom, boom. 0.97

00:33:47.820 This is The Red Weather.

00:33:50.760 Listen to The Red Weather on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:34:02.180 One of the things about, to get back to EMDR, one of the things that's really beautiful about it is that you bring in these figures.

00:34:07.820 Like you bring in a protective figure.

00:34:10.320 The therapist will ask you to name a figure representing wisdom.

00:34:12.920 And by the way, this can be an archetype.

00:34:14.220 This can be someone in your life.

00:34:15.580 They recommend it not being like a parent or like a partner.

00:34:18.820 Something loaded.

00:34:19.420 but not something too loaded but you can bring in and i'll say jacqueline you've been in there

00:34:22.740 for me as a wisdom figure my god and then you go back to the memory to like the traumatic moment

00:34:28.280 to the trigger and you can bring those people with you oh and you can be like oh i wasn't alone

00:34:33.680 or i i can bring in that knowledge or i can bring in that comfort or that protection and i can carry

00:34:38.680 that forward and then you like reimagine yourself differently with this like new support system and

00:34:45.580 with these new like emotional this new emotional technology this is huge I don't know I I get I

00:34:51.120 can't truly speak to it because I'm truly a novice but no I'm very excited I've been sort of floored

00:34:57.200 by how powerful the experience has been and how the feeling has stayed with me for days like I

00:35:01.760 feel like it's actually really helping me so you go from something like you go to like a triggering

00:35:06.860 memory yeah you see yourself uh you you you react differently but then you're saying you you later

00:35:13.880 you put it like yourself distance between it like a like you're on a screen watching it like it's

00:35:18.380 that's one thing that can can happen like or that's not the issue that my therapist has used

00:35:23.180 right is like watch yourself right you're holding a screen watch it on a screen like minimizing it

00:35:27.300 I think making it maybe more right and then watching yourself behave differently like you're

00:35:31.460 watching a movie or something right and then like she'll lead you through these different exercises

00:35:36.060 that are kind of like I don't know it's very it's like hyper imaginative it's hyper visual

00:35:41.440 it's very much like and and there'll be times by the way that i'm going through it and she's like

00:35:46.280 are you able to focus and i'm like no my mind's drifting or this isn't yeah you know i feel

00:35:50.040 resistant like i'm not really in it and then i'll kind of be like oh god i'm not getting into it and

00:35:54.600 then that'll and then in time i have been able to feel like i'm actually in it and present but

00:36:00.820 i don't know i'm really excited i'm gonna do it next week wow and uh it's so unpleasant having

00:36:05.360 to go to unpleasant things in order to transform them but i guess it's the only way well maybe

00:36:10.120 it's not the only way it can be very like she told me she was like you might be exhausted and

00:36:14.580 the first time i did i was truly like my day was wiped out also because you know you can cry a lot

00:36:20.260 yeah lord knows i have yeah but crying is my new thing because i didn't cry for so long right and

00:36:25.500 this year was the year of tears for me and so now i can cry and it really feels good year of fiction

00:36:30.020 it turned out to be the year of tears what'd you say remember this year was supposed to be

00:36:33.600 the return to fiction it turned out to be the return to tears

00:36:36.100 no um no i mean i i always find it very pleasing the feeling of whether or not it's true but the

00:36:46.100 chemicals that can or might be being released in the tears always makes like a lot of sense to me

00:36:51.120 whether it's true or not you know that kind of idea like you have this stuff churning through

00:36:54.740 you and it's got to get out of the body and so it like flies out of your tears like tears i that

00:36:58.940 might be like that it might be i mean i could just hear the tweets you know it's salt water

00:37:02.880 it's always been salt water or whatever okay but but there is something i mean like i just the

00:37:08.280 basic stuff of the body the fact that mind-body connection is even treated as like a metaphysical

00:37:14.200 sort of like that that's even treated as new age when you literally can have a thought and that can

00:37:18.900 produce water from your eyes absolutely by the way the mind-body connection like excuse me we are our

00:37:24.600 bot like yeah yeah call me when you can get out of your body right like call me when you're leaving

00:37:29.800 your body just for an evening right like we're dragging i mean i don't no no no no absolutely

00:37:35.980 it is the body right right well saying this or where is your i mean um where is the mind

00:37:42.220 yeah i mean you're literally nowhere well yeah yeah we hover somewhere in relation to these

00:37:47.480 different systems kind of right i don't know the brain the body um the uh the blood the bones i

00:37:54.700 know i know i just want to bring up the is it the greek term hamarta wounded vision i think

00:38:00.180 no i don't know that one give it to me yeah and it's like the pretension no i don't know that

00:38:05.060 it's wounded vision in greek see how i just say no sorry no i'm just i go no i don't know that

00:38:11.140 one and i'm like oh look at the pretension and the ego okay whatever okay because i had to say

00:38:16.040 the one i had to act like i know others but not that one it's a young thing but it's it's basically

00:38:21.160 just the idea of like we can't see like we're always looking through of course the lens of the

00:38:26.000 past the lens of our own history is the lens of our own traumas and it's like once you can just

00:38:30.160 be like oh yeah i have wounded vision like i sometimes i'm just not i just can't see this

00:38:34.060 actually it's like very liberating completely i used to self-compassion i mean that's that's

00:38:39.440 the big one right it's like anyway yeah wounded vision um uh i went to the store today to buy

00:38:48.440 retail uh display things as a management of my anxiety it's different instead of feeling the

00:38:54.340 feelings i like to as you know buying really helps modular storage solutions okay so love to

00:39:01.040 so so right now i there's a lot of anxiety naturally as i am uh doing my show we're about

00:39:06.800 a weekend and we've just extended so i think i oh i think i did announce well whatever there goes

00:39:12.200 the chair again um so there's a lot going on but i also can't spend all day feeling anxious about

00:39:17.780 the show so i like to put it into other things and right now that's about merch and dice sales

00:39:22.440 okay it's about pushing merch and so today i got an sl2 um sorry those are some of the terms for

00:39:28.440 grid walls uh grid wall displays it was actually a nightmare where i was trying to look up

00:39:33.420 yeah okay picture a grid of wire and things hanging on it got it it's that standing on

00:39:38.660 two i've been to a concert or two exactly standing on two legs just break in and say

00:39:42.840 poog merch will drop i repeat poog merch will drop just stay just stay with us stay don't i

00:39:49.200 don't want you to be there thinking oh we haven't even considered trust me we've considered me we

00:39:54.120 drafted from the beginning we're brewing up some great stuff wait but but i'm dying to tell you so

00:39:58.400 so i so i hauled ass today over to the garment district okay and oh i found a store it was

00:40:04.820 really hard to search for it because try searching a store for things to that are for stores try

00:40:11.800 googling that go to the wall store to buy a wall exactly okay but it's worse it's going to the

00:40:17.920 store store to buy a store okay because I'm trying to set up retail display so I'm googling like

00:40:22.920 retail store okay it's hell I mean I would be so profoundly like the fact that you're even engaging

00:40:29.240 in this realm at all is so foreign to me and so shocking no so so like I get very very excited

00:40:35.540 at night last night I come home I'm exhausted but the way that I kick back is by looking at

00:40:39.480 uline and other such you know industrial sites and trying to put together um this this tower

00:40:45.460 okay this i want it rolling i want it folding i want it mobile okay it's got to be mobile it's

00:40:50.240 got to be folding it's got to i'm not getting folding unfortunately they'll have to wait

00:40:53.760 i want to string my flag from the back of it so it's a photo booth on one side for fans to take

00:40:58.780 pictures and uh post and the other side is where the merch hangs and is sold um and and and uh so

00:41:06.940 i went over there and it was really fun it was very new york classic the woman in there you know

00:41:12.800 what i mean um the woman's in there the woman she's in there really a real classic new york

00:41:19.120 um type taking me through it pulling out the catalog me going but what do you have in store

00:41:23.540 you know the fear that you go in they start pulling out the catalog anyway brick and mortar

00:41:27.540 brick and mortar supply the brick and mortar they can't burn us down i mean truly nothing

00:41:34.480 like a brick and mortar she was saying like we might not have everything because like the

00:41:38.240 embargoes or whatever she was like she was like there's real embargo she's like there's real

00:41:42.160 issues with supply chain right now and everything she's like i remember in 97 when when uh you 0.97

00:41:46.820 couldn't get um rhinestones but but now she's like and now you just can't get anything god damn

00:41:53.020 anyway so there's these huge things i'm standing in there and there's this point that comes where

00:41:57.320 i've added up the different pieces there's and but this is why i don't generally don't like

00:42:00.760 shopping with someone actually helping me right this is why i say i'm just browsing let me look

00:42:04.560 it's because then i feel like i can't back out after they've helped me right and so i get to

00:42:08.140 this point and then and then chris comes to meet me he's like where are you i'm like i'm at you

00:42:12.160 know this place on 35th and he's like i'll come meet you and then he rolls up and i'm like i'm

00:42:16.760 like assessing whether i need this basket okay this like special basket to store like the the

00:42:23.700 t-shirts on the thing at the bottom like i'm just imagining everything oh that'll make it easier for

00:42:27.500 bend to grab the you know and and chris is like i see his face changing he's just like

00:42:32.340 there is no problem with the merch table yeah like as is like there's no problem here that

00:42:40.040 you're solving no that's why we need people to step in we need people to intervene but i was like

00:42:44.420 now now the guy's hauling the heavy six foot i went for six feet tall heavy grids okay up from

00:42:52.480 downstairs and i'm looking at chris going oh god okay but then i was like no i was like no i was 0.97

00:42:58.380 like this actually gives me a lot of joy and happiness to build this stupid little merch 0.91

00:43:02.520 cart oh so you got you went with it and so i fucking went for it and and i i'm gonna post 0.96

00:43:07.180 pics i'm so excited to hang little things i got a little lucite knob you know and oh god it's just 0.92

00:43:12.400 i'm so excited to get clips and ribbons and things and i like to build i built i built a couch i

00:43:19.760 built a couch out of blocks once as a child it was immensely satisfying building blocks

00:43:23.260 and then i sat on it very carefully very gently because it wasn't nailed together of course it

00:43:29.040 was just blocks you're a builder meanwhile thank you kate thank you nothing no you shouldn't what

00:43:37.760 would you have in response to no it's a shocking anecdote uh you know it's one of the shocking

00:43:42.920 things i've revealed on on uh pook and then and then i saw things like oh little round things

00:43:47.680 Kate's holding up Honey Mama's chocolate.

00:43:49.140 She's going to say something about it.

00:43:50.000 But I just want to say one thing, which is like I started to see little displays for things like, oh, you can buy this to put on your retail display.

00:43:54.920 And then I was like, oh, I need to sell something so that I can get that little thing to rest that you rested upon.

00:44:00.100 Like I wanted the jewelry display.

00:44:01.840 All right.

00:44:02.020 I'm sorry, Kate.

00:44:02.640 Can't blame you for it.

00:44:03.400 Your boredom is fair, reasonable and naked.

00:44:07.820 I'm genuinely impressed and excited for you.

00:44:09.780 And I.

00:44:11.080 What about when Kate does that?

00:44:12.280 It's so funny.

00:44:13.500 It's because the listener can hear how there's a kindness in it.

00:44:16.640 You know, there's there is a kind of because I'm not I just I'm truly like I'm listening.

00:44:20.200 I mean, I mean, like, like, you know, yeah, you're like, I'm listening and it's completely illegible to me.

00:44:28.140 But it's just, you know, it's this is what makes the world go round to have friends with different interests.

00:44:32.460 Uline is what makes the world go round.

00:44:34.020 Kate, though, tell about the chocolate.

00:44:36.080 There's honestly nothing.

00:44:36.980 I just was going to say that the chocolate that I'm having the Honey Mamas who I have been.

00:44:41.960 I'm a huge fan of Honey Mamas chocolate.

00:44:43.540 it and they have this astonishing cherry hazelnut limited edition flavor that they sent

00:44:48.600 me and it's out of this world and i realized that sugar in that or there's it's sweetened

00:44:54.360 with honey it's absolutely sugar that is yeah that's a sugar um but it's raw it's like you

00:44:59.240 know the only it's only sweetened with honey and it's coconut oil cocoa powder you know

00:45:03.740 organic cherries you know i'm just joking about the um sugar thing of course you know

00:45:08.220 and the honey thing of course as well i mean but are you tired of coconut oil because you

00:45:12.860 know who is me yeah okay i know what you mean i'm even tired of don't say gee even when it's hidden

00:45:18.760 and things no not gee i'll never be tired of gee anytime i see gee i think of you your face comes

00:45:25.000 to mind you saying gee i want poogie yeah oh that's good poogie poogie that's a gross word

00:45:32.600 i know i hate that um would you ever okay i have a question because i'm thinking about a couple

00:45:37.040 times that i actually feel like i have actively manifested something okay and i'm having the

00:45:41.680 to not reveal it lest the magic be dwindled thoughts well that is is that hoarding well

00:45:48.120 um let me think about this you've already manifested it so it's done and done you have it

00:45:54.220 i'm just worried that if you talk about it now you're kind of closing that narrative

00:45:57.880 yeah you're taking it out of the field of possibility right okay into i already have

00:46:02.960 it i don't need more now can you give a substitute example it'd be great okay for one thing to be 0.71

00:46:07.660 fucking private in my life because um can't even imagine you know i can't even there's not a single 0.65

00:46:12.160 thought that i can't tell five friends so right i'm gonna practice actually keeping something to 0.99

00:46:16.540 my goddamn self well it could be an interesting experiment for us to just just choose a word or a 0.64

00:46:21.920 phrase and that doesn't mean anything okay and we just keep it to ourselves not unlike the mantra 0.99

00:46:27.560 not unlike the mantra okay but that's a little different because someone knew someone gave it

00:46:31.420 someone knew right so so like arbitrarily like i decide i'll give an example but it won't be this

00:46:38.100 okay okay so it would be like you know soft tendrils okay that's all i got but then whatever

00:46:45.200 yeah i was looking at theta's hair okay but like and yours okay you know i go you know paper plastic

00:46:52.040 uh belligerent moth you know or whatever okay but my practice will just be can i say that to

00:46:59.100 myself a few times over the next couple of days and just not mention it. And no one knows. I'm

00:47:04.220 really interested in populating invisible spaces, which, you know, what's more invisible than your

00:47:09.860 own interiority? We got to wrap it up, but I just want to say belligerent moth.

00:47:16.700 Belligerent moth. Moths are belligerent.

00:47:19.740 Oh, that's so weird that we, because last week you had that issue.

00:47:23.620 I'm excited because I'm, I'm realizing that I really need to spend more time outside.

00:47:27.400 and so I'm going to do a picnic today and tomorrow

00:47:29.440 I'm going to the beach

00:47:30.240 I'm realizing, I'm going to bring it up

00:47:33.660 because I'm going to do, what am I going to do today

00:47:35.400 well, I'm going to get my merch in line

00:47:37.220 I'm going to give myself permission

00:47:39.200 I'm going to give myself permission to be who I am and I'm a builder

00:47:41.160 I'm a builder, I'm Toolman Tim

00:47:43.340 I'm exactly like Toolman Tim, I don't know if you ever saw that

00:47:45.700 as a child, barely

00:47:46.980 I'm the same, I get an idea and I go for it

00:47:49.500 and I get pleasure out of it, so that's where I'm going

00:47:51.260 I'm going to build, I'm going to post it, everyone's going to see

00:47:52.720 everyone's going to love my merch cart

00:47:53.980 It's really exciting, it's genuinely inspirational

00:47:55.980 and I'll see you soon.

00:47:59.640 All right, good job.

00:48:00.680 See you soon. 0.89

00:48:01.240 That was Pug.

00:48:03.420 If you enjoyed Pug,

00:48:04.900 please subscribe, rate, and review.

00:48:07.260 If not, we will press charges.

00:48:15.040 This is Ryder Strong

00:48:16.360 and I have a new podcast called The Red Weather.

00:48:19.000 In 1995, my neighbor, Anna Trainor,

00:48:21.560 disappeared from a commune.

00:48:22.960 It was nature and trees and praying.

00:48:25.480 and drugs. No, I am not your guru. Back then, I lied to everybody. They have had this case for

00:48:34.080 30 years. I'm going back to my hometown to uncover the truth. Listen to The Red Weather

00:48:40.400 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:48:45.560 This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.

Poog with Kate Berlant and Jacqueline Novak - June 29, 2021

Fight, Flight, Freeze, Fawn

Episode Stats

Transcript