Poog with Kate Berlant and Jacqueline Novak - High Stakes Masculine

00:00:00.000 Treat your closet to a little summer glow up with quince. Go to quince.com slash hags for free

00:00:04.840 shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's q-u-i-n-c-e.com slash hags to get free

00:00:12.040 shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash hags. Two best friends both alike in dignity,

00:00:21.860 nurturing phantoms and courting the muse. The hag divines when something must die. Yes, 1.00

00:00:26.680 that was poog, but this is huge. The ego loves to seek, but never to find. It was Berlant and Novak 1.00

00:00:33.540 the whole time. There. Sip of Celsius. There she goes. A sip right up the top. By the way,

00:00:44.080 yesterday, because I don't, what flavor is that? Who knows? By the way, Celsius one centus product.

00:00:50.620 Let's get some more. So wait, I have a question because I don't know this about you. Do you drink

00:00:54.780 celsius every day on and off okay oh shit something fell 0.98

00:00:59.920 because yesterday i was experiencing complete and total paralysis like a text i just couldn't 0.66

00:01:08.040 i felt like i'm excited to hear this work at all i was really down to the wire i had to i had a show

00:01:14.000 whatever i was like leaving it to the very last moment sat down drank celsius locked in for 90

00:01:20.640 minutes all i did was 90 minutes of work but i was locked in and i was like do i need to be

00:01:25.240 drinking so is it that simple damn because i do you know yeah so you're saying that what is that

00:01:33.040 it's a little pepper oh oh i thought it was a little i saw a little hanging stuffed animal 0.96

00:01:37.180 like that in an uber today and i thought that's nice i saw the guy had a pack of them in the back

00:01:42.640 i almost asked for one you were already in an uber today oh yeah because i left hudson today

00:01:48.620 oh my god i was picturing you in la right in la in my father's office right right but you're

00:01:56.360 saying whatever just celsius just the celsius is powerful that's kind but guess what's also

00:02:00.980 powerful so yesterday i was feeling very low dark low energy whatever forgot to take my saffron and

00:02:07.620 didn't get on the vibration plate i'm not saying this is what it is but today on the vibration

00:02:12.320 plate why do i have so much energy i could use the caffeine right now it's 130 but you know just

00:02:17.640 of course classic you know is it could it be the vibration plate no it could just be other

00:02:22.380 elements of life having a nice day having a good breakfast at a restaurant you know where squirrel

00:02:28.540 all right still never been so shocking you have to um i need to order celsius so it's tough the

00:02:35.800 day i leave leave a place after an extended trip it's hard to leave i start doing things

00:02:42.240 you froze again i only heard half of what you said uh-oh what so what is it is it it's not my

00:02:51.020 side because i'm at five bars i am too but i think the bars are like at this point a vintage

00:02:59.060 a vintage way to say it's good like are the bars even telling us anything right right right right

00:03:05.880 That's right, that's right.

00:03:08.860 183, quality 720.

00:03:10.960 What did you think of how that filter of the puppet made you?

00:03:15.480 I loved it.

00:03:16.440 It was cute, right?

00:03:17.140 So Jacqueline sent me Riverside, the app that we record the podcast in, provided an option for an AI-generated animation.

00:03:26.020 It's like us as Sesame Street creatures.

00:03:29.940 Yeah, yeah.

00:03:30.800 I can't bully the technology.

00:03:32.360 I'd like to try it again with my hair down.

00:03:34.440 I think we've got to do it again.

00:03:35.660 oh definitely when we know it's always interesting when when there's some kind of filter or some kind

00:03:42.040 of generative you know it turns you into an elf right yeah when you start making adjustments to

00:03:50.080 try to make the machine perceive you as you see yourself you know i'm saying you're like like i

00:03:57.600 just i just like yeah like brought my hair in front of my thing in case like later because it

00:04:01.400 it turned my hair into like this braid you know it's almost like I don't know it's always

00:04:06.780 interesting the translation of this I mean classically the caricature I had a caricature

00:04:12.700 drawing done of myself in the eighth grade sensitive time in someone's life yeah exactly

00:04:17.280 in New York City and it was like devastating well they also made everyone look you know

00:04:23.000 kind of like grown women like like do you know what I mean then it was always Dick Van Dyke or

00:04:27.920 just automatically do yeah and they were always aged up right yeah like i feel like did the girls 0.99

00:04:34.540 always have like tits it's kind of perverse yeah i know they give you like crazy tits i think when 0.98

00:04:39.120 i think he knew probably like okay this is like someone in the eighth grade can't do that so i 0.99

00:04:43.740 think there were there were no tits yeah thank god such a specific style of drawing you know

00:04:49.900 to become a thing then copied by others versus infinite kinds you know what's another one of

00:04:55.940 those yeah those kinds of like that you learn yeah uh when i was in rome but you'll see these

00:05:01.820 different touristy locations yeah the street art the guys that sell the paintings and it's like

00:05:08.740 you know the universe or it's kind of like skyscapes and it's a very specific kind of

00:05:14.920 painting but it's like replicated like you see it many different people sell their wares in that

00:05:20.620 style yes yeah it's like it's like where are they learning this no i know i mean i think they spot

00:05:26.560 it go i could do that right is it like hey pay this guy to three-day course and you learn and

00:05:32.220 they're like yeah these are the paints this is the paper right it's interesting are you aware of

00:05:37.660 something called the millennial pause i don't know so my younger partner turned me on so here's what

00:05:43.060 it is so when i open my phone to take a video oh yeah i'm aware of that yeah i plus oh see i didn't

00:05:48.920 know about that you mean they're like called me out for doing it it's when you go like you press

00:05:53.280 record and then you go hey you press record and go hey everyone where the young kids just go hey

00:05:59.900 everyone they say hey the second they press it it's like this idea that we're waiting to me it

00:06:04.560 was almost like oh you're like waiting for the technology to really kick into gear it's it's

00:06:09.000 like a fundamental mistrust of the technology or misunderstanding of the technology the technology

00:06:14.140 is right there like okay are we are we live are we rolling yeah yeah yeah is this thing on yeah

00:06:21.580 it's very is this thing on which by the way is hysterical you know i love to do this go back to

00:06:26.900 the first time someone said it yeah yeah right imagining how funny it is yeah is uh this thing

00:06:33.920 on killed laugh out loud killed killed it's so funny you know another one just just crickets oh

00:06:42.320 I know that is it's classic you know like like I try to I try to imagine like someone the first

00:06:47.960 time someone was like was like yeah I made that joke and uh crickets okay it was like

00:06:53.800 yeah yeah and then you're like suddenly try to try to do it fresh now like if someone if that

00:07:00.040 was never a thing and someone did it now and it was like you know um it was like yeah I told that

00:07:03.680 joke and then it was just hum of the air conditioner right right right it'd be pretty funny

00:07:09.360 yeah it's too long but you know what i'm saying but would be the equivalent

00:07:14.860 we still have crickets but less theater in the round outside don't we i fall asleep i fall asleep

00:07:22.380 to crickets last night crickets i mean i love the sound of them do i want them in my house

00:07:27.060 you know that you know you're like that one's too close yeah i know i know but they're i mean i've

00:07:33.960 been having this because i've been having so you know sleeping it's it's getting hot here in los

00:07:37.720 angeles but last night you know don't like to sleep with the ac on so classic open window by

00:07:42.540 the screened window open by the bed it's heaven but then the birds are waking me up at 4 30 a.m

00:07:49.220 but it's on it's like very sweet but it's also like so now every morning 4 30 a.m 5 i'm getting 1.00

00:07:55.300 up i'm closing the window it's disturbing my sleep these yappers you got to get on their schedule

00:08:00.880 crickets and birds that's about all i've got i know but it also is romantic to be like oh waking

00:08:06.160 with the doll and the birds. Once the temperature starts rising, I realize I'm back in the same old

00:08:19.040 worn out rotation. So I decided to give my daily uniform an upgrade with quince. I'm really excited

00:08:25.880 about my linen shorts. I've always wondered if I should take the plunge into the world of linen

00:08:30.260 shorts and it turns out people are wearing these for a reason. Yes, there's the effortless summer

00:08:35.400 luxury but there is the simple breeze control that linen allows a linen short is the kind of

00:08:43.580 thing that i would hesitate at the price of scared to introduce linen into my life without

00:08:49.300 knowing much about it but at these prices i could take what i call the linen challenge

00:08:55.180 i might just make some brunch reservations just to have an excuse to wear these shorts

00:08:59.760 treat your closet to a little summer glow up with quince go to quince.com slash haggs for free

00:09:04.900 shipping on your order and 365 day returns that's q-u-i-n-c-e.com slash hags to get free

00:09:12.100 shipping and 365 day returns quince.com slash hags how do you feel about i feel like we've been

00:09:23.800 through this but neighbor construction anything below 9 a.m is rude however legally i guess they

00:09:29.920 can start at eight they have to i mean you know they got a break for lunch you're totally gotta 0.94

00:09:35.520 get the work in no it's true construction should begin at fucking four just is what it is i think 0.64

00:09:41.120 our own ears and our own quiet unfortunately in this day and age has become our own responsibility 0.94

00:09:45.380 wow listen to that you gotta just you gotta get your i mean rudeness is one thing you know but 0.83

00:09:51.300 yeah i think damn i don't know you have to somehow find your way through it or then you're suffering 0.56

00:09:57.240 constantly in your environment it just isn't really i'm trying to ask for project again 0.93

00:10:02.360 by the way at night yeah just like two nights ago i was like all right i need something

00:10:08.360 what'd you do how do you how do you start oh i didn't do anything i mean i i had had a cocktail

00:10:14.320 and googling it's a cocktail looking for it to help you know like yeah yeah and some people

00:10:19.800 said i did others you know the uninformed i would think that that actually wouldn't help

00:10:24.980 because you need to focus it's like no blur is the boundary you don't have the answers yeah

00:10:29.400 everyone knows obviously that's the expectation is that it's not going to be good for it right

00:10:34.300 like so someone like popping in with an answer that's like yeah i think probably not a good idea

00:10:38.780 it's like it's like silence silence let the other comments go to the top i mean how much of your day

00:10:45.840 is spent probably probably not a lot but kind of sifting through comments of information like

00:10:53.200 for something you're researching i was just curious like because i feel like it's been a lot

00:10:57.080 because i've been downloading so much software constant software recently that i end up in um

00:11:04.160 forums asking questions about the software and different people's workflows i i love reading

00:11:09.900 about different people's workflows so funny like people being like they're like they're like yeah

00:11:14.140 so i've been using this software for 10 years okay are you on your phone okay hands up here

00:11:20.360 look eyes up here um you know this guy it's like it's like well i use a combination of

00:11:27.560 you know these three things you know someone else is like you know i did for three years i just ran

00:11:31.820 back to google docs you know i'm not happy about it but there i am you know and someone else is

00:11:35.380 like i'll actually move between and they're like scrivener ever gonna update no you know but it's

00:11:41.780 legacy and people stick with it for a reason and it's like there's just something very comforting

00:11:47.600 okay about these people with their workflows google docs by the way what more do you need

00:11:53.720 like like i guess what i mean is is is like that whatever i'm going through in a software

00:11:59.800 or on your computer you google it exactly it's there and there's a lot of people talking about

00:12:05.920 it yeah totally it's amazing it's very quite frankly cozy as hell well that's what's crazy

00:12:11.000 when you find a problem i was actually doing a google i made crispy rice the other night it's

00:12:16.280 actually fantastic but just like had sushi white rice crisped it up oh yeah how did your um my

00:12:21.440 dinner went quite well i think you talked about that on the bonus episode and um yes i was hosting 0.89

00:12:26.640 dinner just for two just for two guests but i googled how to fuck i meant to take a picture i 0.64

00:12:32.860 said how do because it's something as simple as oh crisping rice in a pan but it's like often those 0.97

00:12:38.480 simple ostensibly simple dishes are how you like you can fuck it up it's actually not as easy as

00:12:44.240 you think, right? And so, although it ended up being quite simple, the point is I Googled

00:12:48.840 how to make crispy rice. Oh, no, no. This is what it was. How to make tadig. I'm probably

00:12:56.260 saying it wrong. Wait, let me get this. Wait. Tadig. Yeah. Okay. So I was Googling how to make

00:13:02.140 tadig, which is like, you know, Persian rice, crispy rice. That one has usually currants in

00:13:07.300 it and stuff. I wasn't doing that. How to make ta-dig from white rice. And Google kept saying

00:13:14.480 how to make a dog from white rice. And then AI said, you cannot make a dog from white rice.

00:13:22.040 Like it just said that. I was like, uh-huh. But the point is I did make gorgeous crispy rice.

00:13:28.940 White rice crisps with olive oil on the bottom of the pan.

00:13:32.500 Sorry, I'm consumed with, yeah, you could. Challenge accepted. Sticky rice?

00:13:37.300 You can do anything.

00:13:38.300 Yeah.

00:13:39.740 Is a pepper hanging from your finger?

00:13:42.540 Yeah.

00:13:43.480 I have the stem of a pepper hanging from my finger.

00:13:46.760 Look at that.

00:13:47.640 This is the kind of thing they would have hung you for, for being a witch in the olden days.

00:13:50.720 Yeah.

00:13:51.080 The way that that's just floating below.

00:13:53.100 So I had something happen where the other day after we logged off doing the podcast,

00:13:57.700 I, in my home, hadn't left my home, could not find my phone.

00:14:01.120 I had, you know, due to the addiction, take the phone to every room, right?

00:14:05.840 I recall this, yeah.

00:14:06.740 And I had to leave. I had to go. I was on like a time crunch. I spend, I want to say,

00:14:12.100 maybe 20 minutes looking for my phone. My house is small. There aren't infinite places for it to

00:14:19.120 be. Smallest home I've ever seen. I was looking around. I was looking around. And then I go,

00:14:25.380 I got to go. And I thought, and genuine kind of anxiety about leaving the house, getting in the

00:14:31.480 car, driving to, you know, driving without the phone. I knew where I was going, but I guess it's

00:14:37.020 the threat of an emergency. God forbid I have to call, right. The liberation. And listen, this was

00:14:44.040 a simple errand. I was, I drove less than 20 minutes to a location, drove back. That's a big

00:14:50.260 deal. The liberation. That's a huge deal. So I was in there. Normally I'm listening to my own music.

00:14:57.520 yeah in the car something a woman in the world you're a woman in the world there i am with the

00:15:02.400 radio by the way it was reminded i have to donate to npr i need to get back to doing my monthly

00:15:06.880 contribution listening to the radio learning learning actively learning right eyes on the 0.87

00:15:12.280 road for once fucking god help us all no i'm i have my eyes on the road it can't be like i'm at 0.97

00:15:19.760 a traffic light so it's okay because then it has to be in the fucking trunk i guess i live in such 0.98

00:15:25.900 fear of unsafe driving you have it on driving i said i live in fear of unsafe driving yeah 0.97

00:15:31.080 but i i can't sit here and pretend that the phone's not sometimes you can't you have to stop

00:15:36.940 immediately okay i know i know okay it's it's the only here's the way to get you to it's stop

00:15:42.800 homicide here here's what will get you to stop are you ready just literally a phone's in your

00:15:46.760 hand and imagine hit and kill someone so no no just sit with that of course this this is why 0.71

00:15:50.900 i have a fear of drunk driving i never drive drunk i don't even drive buzzed i'm 0.99

00:15:55.180 fucking terrified like people are out there they're having a couple drinks and they're 0.90

00:15:59.420 driving and it's legal it's legal to have a drink and drive or whatever it's a legal limit 0.98

00:16:03.980 still yeah my fear the fear that i have one cocktail barely yeah i'm the same like even

00:16:10.520 though it's like one cocktail per hour or something i'm like nope nope nope nope i guess

00:16:14.140 i just yeah i don't trust the math on those but people are out there hammered driving but

00:16:19.500 anyway so i leave and i feel this again what starts as anxiety soon dissolves into freedom

00:16:27.180 so so this cannot be overstated because i experienced this when i was going mad uh towards

00:16:34.640 the end of the year and had to seriously approach things differently with my phone now now the easing

00:16:41.920 into it method was going out with my lover okay he has a phone is there a family emergency they'll

00:16:48.480 come for him do you see what i'm saying yeah so it's not even like i'm out of contact even for a

00:16:54.440 second in theory oh yeah in the case of emergency so that that was a good i'm gonna leave my phone

00:16:58.840 at home he's got his that's like a halfway yeah but i was just thinking about when you talk about

00:17:03.320 getting into the car and there's that the phoneless car situation and the radio and you're alone in

00:17:08.680 there in a different way right it's almost like what you're experiencing is your body once again

00:17:14.380 becoming the boundary between you and the world. Totally. Totally. Versus the phone is like

00:17:20.280 this constant tube, you know what I mean? From you to literally anything. Yeah. To you to

00:17:26.840 destroying your life. I know. To you to, you know, hitting delete on your bank account or whatever,

00:17:32.540 you know, anyone coming at you and in at you, you know, anything out, there's nothing you

00:17:37.160 couldn't do. Right. So it's like, there is a way that we're all like naked and vulnerable and

00:17:41.660 around each other all the time and due to the phone which is not usually like the angle that's

00:17:45.780 like taken you know what i mean it's like it's like we're so alone but like we also are not

00:17:49.700 because the non-stop opportunity for access you know what i mean it's like no you're not alone

00:17:56.120 i felt like oh like i it was like a sensory change like it felt like an altered state oh no no it's

00:18:04.780 going to going to the store it was like it is an altered state that's how i felt i was staying

00:18:09.860 there press the button i was waiting across the street yeah and i was like right i'm just staring

00:18:14.500 ahead and i'm reading a sign oh that store exists yeah there's a woman oh there's her dog that store

00:18:22.720 exists like that store exists is a big part of daily life you know because because a lot of it

00:18:30.180 is like that store exists you know and it's not like you didn't see it and have that thought the

00:18:34.600 previous day it's like it's kind of crazy i don't know like how much is just like looking at a sign

00:18:40.380 or like living with a billboard for living with a billboard for in the world however long oh yeah

00:18:44.940 oh yeah you know contemplating it no no and i and i had of course a euphoric experience because i

00:18:49.220 went into mccall's which for those who you know it's a it's a expensive specialty market but they

00:18:55.460 have gorgeous fish and such i was buying a salmon and i'm there chatting up the cheesemonger patrick

00:19:02.020 but he goes kate i go patrick he he gives me a little piece you want to try this swedish cheese

00:19:08.400 yep sure do i'm in there got a gorgeous haul and was transported and again just i felt very weird

00:19:17.800 because the phone it's just in the hand at all times like if i or or i'm nervously fishing for

00:19:24.180 it by the way in the pocket in the purse well feeling the radiation weight of it okay i know

00:19:28.740 I felt like I was going to float right away without that brick in my pocket.

00:19:34.060 That was another change in the experience.

00:19:36.500 Then there was periods where it was like, okay, it's still coming with us, but it's

00:19:39.080 going in Chris's backpack.

00:19:40.580 And that already changed everything.

00:19:43.120 Because he has his backpack for our trip to the market.

00:19:46.600 We're good Californians.

00:19:48.320 We load up in our own bags.

00:19:51.700 And having it not on the person was already a completely different experience.

00:19:57.300 It was like, oh, yeah, I have a little computer in there.

00:20:00.120 It was a completely different experience.

00:20:01.100 The E is to pull it out of the pocket, the on the person.

00:20:03.800 Like, it's so simple that no one will believe it until they do it, okay?

00:20:08.100 Nope.

00:20:09.220 Well, by the way, Light Phone.

00:20:11.320 Yeah.

00:20:11.780 So Light Phone.

00:20:13.300 And again, their customer service is exquisite.

00:20:15.460 I'm traveling.

00:20:16.740 I'm on the road.

00:20:17.220 Tickets at capeurland.com.

00:20:19.120 I really – honey, I'm not moving.

00:20:21.680 Folks.

00:20:21.820 I need Austin and I need Denver to come out.

00:20:24.160 I need Boston to come out.

00:20:25.660 I need Philly.

00:20:27.300 you know? Don't I know it, sweetheart? I'm coming to Seattle. I'm coming to Portland. Okay,

00:20:31.580 caperland.com, please. Guys, get the tickets. Thank you for allowing me to do the promo. But

00:20:36.020 I, you know, I can't, I have to have my phone for that. But when I come back,

00:20:41.340 June light phone initiation ceremony. Wow. I'm going to do, I'm going to do. Together maybe.

00:20:45.640 I'm going to. Because you have mine, right? Yep. Here we go. I want to do June mid-Jalloon

00:20:50.700 to mid-July light phone experiment really life so you always like to like you know next week

00:20:59.740 on the horizon starting yeah yeah yeah well because it can't be now because well that's

00:21:05.440 a really good question no here's why it can't be now let's hear it let's hear it can't be now

00:21:13.300 because I think I have a counter because I'm too I'm very on social media right now because I do

00:21:18.560 Yes, promo.

00:21:19.180 I truly have to protect – I have to protect – interesting.

00:21:22.240 Interesting.

00:21:22.660 I have to –

00:21:23.420 Protect your reputation through ticket sales.

00:21:25.380 I have to promote my tour.

00:21:28.380 Let's get real, right?

00:21:29.480 How much of that time is active promoting where if, for example, you hired a social media person and had a rollout campaign?

00:21:38.740 You know what's nearly impossible to find in this culture?

00:21:42.780 Like there are these things that are so promised everywhere.

00:21:45.300 like it would be it'd be like like um social media expert you know like grow your business

00:21:51.660 like these things it's like they're so everywhere it's like me having that separate account

00:21:55.580 anyway whatever i can't get into it i'm pulling myself back okay 0.97

00:21:59.660 but the point is you know you could offload that shit you could also like i signed up for this 0.97

00:22:07.380 thing to try to get out metrical it's like you know you can schedule up all your posts 0.99

00:22:13.060 like sure if i'm like all right you know i'm gonna promote this thing four times i'm gonna

00:22:18.000 upload these clips blah blah i can't bring myself to load a clip it's hell

00:22:21.400 i i mean i'm i'm going through a creative revolution about how i wish to interact with

00:22:27.580 the world i'm really i'm really not sure kate what it's gonna be interesting i mean live

00:22:32.040 obviously live for sure yeah yeah but i'm thinking i don't know what do you mean less

00:22:38.300 preciousness i've been threatening substack would you would you open a substack from novak

00:22:45.760 a couple notions of course really do you would i would i subscribe to your subscribe

00:22:51.640 yes i can't say it of course i mean loose you know i think i you know substack that's a world

00:22:59.200 that i don't yeah i i subscribe to allison roman's substack i subscribe i think there's a couple more

00:23:05.260 but i don't know if i see them i don't know yeah you have to i'm not in that world either other

00:23:10.260 than like well it's funny it's like i go in there i put my name in and then like other people know

00:23:14.960 i'm there it's like one of those it's like old schools like suddenly there's like it's like

00:23:18.420 someone follows you and it's like just because i like opened up some stack yeah yeah did something

00:23:22.580 but mitch horowitz my preferred writer on the occult and related categories i subscribe to his

00:23:31.280 I was reading a great piece last night.

00:23:35.180 That's Mitch Horowitz, folks.

00:23:36.720 His substack is phenomenal.

00:23:38.160 All his books are really clear-headed about the paranormal.

00:23:42.200 Wow.

00:23:42.840 So smart about the paranormal.

00:23:44.620 So researched.

00:23:44.980 What does he say?

00:23:45.580 What's the headline?

00:23:47.320 They're out there?

00:23:50.280 I mean, he has such a body of work. 1.00

00:23:52.900 He just knows his shit. 0.99

00:23:55.440 And, you know, I'm trying to think, like, what would be a good quote from him. 0.99

00:23:59.380 but he he um let's see oh yeah i always like this i always like this from the washington post i

00:24:06.960 think this is a quote about him treats esoteric ideas and movements with an even-handed intellectual

00:24:12.480 studiousness but is too often lost in today's raised voice discussions it's true and then his

00:24:19.780 book practical magic ancient tradition and modern practice modern occultism history theory and

00:24:26.520 practice occult america hey white house seances ouija circles masons and the secret mystic history

00:24:35.140 of our nation one simple idea lessons of positive thinking to transform your life

00:24:39.540 um the miracle club how thoughts become reality have you read um have you read 0.99

00:24:44.240 fuck 0.99

00:24:45.080 I'm gonna look it up 0.99

00:24:48.120 no sorry

00:24:48.980 if your dog could talk

00:24:56.440 it begged for Ollie

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00:25:11.340 and they create a customized meal plan

00:25:13.340 based on your pup's weight, activity level, and other health information.

00:25:18.100 You get expert recommendations.

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00:25:23.660 for your precious little angel based on hundreds and thousands of real dog results.

00:25:28.680 Dogs deserve the best, and that means fresh, healthy food.

00:25:33.040 Head to ollie.com slash hags and tell them all about your dog.

00:25:37.480 And use code HAGS to get 60% off your welcome kit when you subscribe today.

00:25:42.840 Plus, they offer a clean bowl guarantee on the first box.

00:25:46.400 So if you're not completely satisfied, you'll get your money back.

00:25:49.640 That's O-L-L-I-E dot com slash hags and enter code hags to get 60% off your first box.

00:25:58.000 I hope they start making Ollie for cats.

00:26:00.260 I'll definitely be interested.

00:26:01.340 we had a funny experience where in a restaurant and restaurant we'd eaten in multiple nights

00:26:14.460 actually it was that same veggie burger okay we're at the experience of being asked

00:26:19.720 you know oh my god you're so hungry and this time chris gets it right he takes a bite

00:26:26.880 and he goes something ain't right here okay because we're very used to their veggie burger

00:26:32.140 just being sort of whatever veggie burger right it's like this is this is not it right call them

00:26:39.160 over the whole thing you know we don't think this is it you know veggie burger and then someone 0.76

00:26:44.420 comes back and says it's an impossible burger okay oh shit and it's like they switched like 0.90

00:26:50.220 it absolutely is but don't worry we fired up another one and i'm like i need to make something 0.97

00:26:54.420 clear here folks okay your normal veggie burger was not served hence us thinking this was meat

00:27:01.380 you know it's not like we were like if we came to the restaurant for the first time and it was like

00:27:06.080 you know your vegan burger abstractly that's what I'm saying then it comes and we're like

00:27:11.280 this is beef like a commercial for impossible burger like excuse me uh we said vegan yeah

00:27:17.120 yeah this is clearly this is about the juiciness and texture of beef yeah yeah of course yeah and

00:27:23.400 then so it was like sort of like i i needed them to know of course i needed them to understand i

00:27:27.480 just want to be because this is not the veggie patty and they were like well the chef has changed

00:27:32.020 and they've brought in you know whatever and so i was like it's because we normally would have the

00:27:36.420 you know i really needed them how do you feel about impossible meat to understand the taste

00:27:40.760 yeah good you know i mean i'm whatever you know like i'm happy to have something

00:27:46.800 i i'm happy to have something uh create a little distance between two halves of a bun a couple

00:27:53.300 pickles what more do you fucking need the book by the way was the untethered soul which i'm sure

00:27:59.420 you're aware of a million years ago literally yeah yeah me i mean i mean like i don't know 0.96

00:28:04.620 i read that in 2006 yeah it's probably like 2013 or something when did it come out it had crossed

00:28:09.620 your eyes 2011 not bad right i guess 2013 i think date's not right here michael uh something

00:28:18.540 michael singer michael singer it's good it's good and and i'm just like i'm elated with knowing

00:28:25.580 because there's plenty i miss popular highlight true personal growth is about transcending the

00:28:31.860 part of you that is not okay and needs protection what i think i think they're suggest they're 0.98

00:28:38.240 saying he's saying um tune into the party that's always safe i love that fucking love it your 0.97

00:28:45.000 consciousness is actually experiencing your mental model of reality not reality itself well ain't that 0.98

00:28:49.920 the truth folks ain't that the truth give me more this is fun let's do a little hook a fish out of

00:28:57.140 michael singer's book and and then analyze it this is interesting to attain true inner freedom

00:29:02.360 you must be able to objectively watch your problems instead of being lost in them i mean

00:29:08.020 objectively watch i take issue with but yes it's like a meditation thing you just watch yeah you

00:29:12.260 know watch them come and go it's all about you know it's it's it's as far as i recall it is

00:29:17.680 about you know tuning into the awareness there's an untethered soul 52 card deck

00:29:23.300 unbelievable read this book carefully and you will get more than a glimpse of eternity

00:29:29.580 if i'm gonna have a deck right novak's notions whatever to save your life real solutions for

00:29:35.200 real people whatever how to save your life what'd you say novak's notions how to save your life

00:29:41.420 whatever yeah yeah you're gonna have a deck right of my like wisdom what comes to mind like like

00:29:48.480 okay well you'd obviously need blah blah does anything come to mind like like one came to mind

00:29:52.960 for me okay that's obvious don't pay twice right that's i thought about don't pay twice the other

00:29:58.280 day like that would that would be decent that would be it like someone pulls a card and it's

00:30:02.400 like where today are you paying twice yeah yeah or whatever i'm like that's pretty good right

00:30:08.640 that's one out of 52 i'm practically two percent through this this card deck um the vanity the

00:30:13.880 vanity though of the me and a deck is kind of the issue but humor the card deck is tough like it's

00:30:22.380 but they are fun to buy i mean have you ever you know they're fun to buy fun to buy or fun to own

00:30:27.540 i've given i've been gifted a few you know yeah i don't know about that i feel like that's a

00:30:34.420 last resort i struggle well you know i've always felt this way about anything in the bookstore

00:30:41.780 that doesn't quite fit on the shelves of the bookstore operates a strange place like it's

00:30:48.200 on the table like i used to think the great humiliation of humor writing was that like all

00:30:53.940 the books were different sizes you know it was just like yeah didn't look like the strand over

00:31:00.000 there yeah what about a book a big gag book or the gag is that it's so big that you have to lift it

00:31:07.080 with both hands and that's fun it's called the big book of little truths that was always

00:31:14.380 that was what infinite jest kind of was i mean at least you know david foster wallace pull it

00:31:20.220 off the shelf go i just heard just calling infinite jest infant jest and that would be um your mommy

00:31:25.800 book genius infant jest that's good but wait oh yeah but the cards you know what i think the

00:31:33.000 this is this is software terminology now friction okay i've changed you're a software

00:31:39.700 person now just downloading a lot as i'm really digging into my computer and pulling all the

00:31:44.940 writing out and trying to get it all off my back once and for all become a new woman new ideas get

00:31:51.940 everything else out it's leading to a lot of will software save my my life so anyway friction here's

00:31:58.760 the friction for me the card deck how do you integrate it into your life okay in theory don't

00:32:03.040 you kind of picture this stack and you're pulling one every day right like a tarot so is that stack

00:32:08.180 resting nakedly on a slab oh uh-huh the tarot deck or is it tilted is the stack tilted inside

00:32:17.220 of the card thing it came in the box which also doesn't really work i think just the box and

00:32:22.720 to get one it's kind of an awkward lift like to try to get one out i'm thinking i'm thinking

00:32:29.660 We need some kind of card dispenser

00:32:33.280 Load it up

00:32:34.440 Like a gun and you fire it out

00:32:37.220 Automated

00:32:37.560 Load-a-mated

00:32:39.500 Automated, load, spits it out 0.98

00:32:42.880 That'd be fun

00:32:44.460 But then automated

00:32:45.620 You're not choosing it

00:32:47.720 Yeah, that's kind of the fun of it for me

00:32:50.160 Like it spits out of a

00:32:52.500 Mechanical

00:32:53.460 I think mechanical can still have 0.94

00:32:56.500 The mystics can get involved

00:32:58.760 yeah totally jukebox right i guess the jukebox you you choose your song but like you know yeah

00:33:05.680 saves for the divine on the subject of tarot shout out to natalie labriola old friend wrote a book

00:33:12.020 on tarot for beginners beautiful uh and she does readings check her out if you're looking for

00:33:17.440 someone that's cool yeah she's amazing i don't think i've ever had a proper tarot reading really

00:33:22.360 i have to gift you one from her i know i still need to read the young book on tarot about to

00:33:27.860 get back into instant pot because i've been away from it main reason does that mean you have a

00:33:33.380 plane ticket home well i've got one at my parents house okay now my new thing is that even if i go 0.82

00:33:38.840 somewhere for fucking four days an airbnb or something right literally it's worth the cost 0.58

00:33:44.180 when you compare it to restaurant dining you mean buy buy a new one leave it at the airbnb 0.95

00:33:49.160 right right donation similar to my printer you know i've been i've carried a printer around

00:33:54.620 around six airbnbs i purchased a printer and moved a printer between each of them

00:33:59.360 you mean you purchased one printer and you're moving yes but then i dragged it in my suitcase

00:34:03.400 a printer yeah gives me a lot of joy it gives me joy because it says who says i can't do this

00:34:10.820 i'm doing it well sure what kind of printer because you know i had my my big pride moment

00:34:14.820 because i set up the printer by myself without i mean i i just was feeling i i thought it was

00:34:20.260 beyond my skill set. And I was like, I can't believe it. And it printed something. I was like,

00:34:24.740 this is incredible. I did it. I troubled it. A couple of days later, I won't print. And this

00:34:29.200 goes back to my theory that nothing works ever. When life feels so impossible, I go, but it just

00:34:34.360 worked. Why? Why? How? Right. When it works, you're shocked. I haven't gone back. Olive oil.

00:34:40.320 I bought this gorgeous olive oil at the farmer's market. I bought two varieties.

00:34:44.420 And this one, she said, drink it right out of the bottle if you can.

00:34:46.920 meaning like that it's so good for you oh right like drink it alone i'm gonna try a little on the

00:34:53.800 top oh my god i don't know how to pronounce this it's amazing weeb how would you pronounce it w-i-e-b-e

00:35:04.840 farms yeah weeb i guess weeba 0.98

00:35:08.640 fuck that's special um when you're reading that michael singer um were those like those were 0.99

00:35:19.520 stupid little like excerpts that amazon pulled out let me see right okay i was curious if it was 0.99

00:35:25.240 the kind like on kindle where you see what other people have highlighted because that's always 0.98

00:35:28.960 interesting particularly in these like business books you're reading where it's like where it's

00:35:35.280 like she's like all these people you just imagine them all underlining like if you want hard cash

00:35:40.600 quick like i don't know like there's something very in self-help of any kind seeing other people's

00:35:47.260 underlines is quite intimate i bought a book years ago that was called remember i've talked about in

00:35:52.840 the podcast but when i got kind of sucked into this woman who was trying to sell me whole life

00:35:57.420 insurance yeah sounds familiar and i got way sucked in and she was like read this book it's

00:36:02.760 called like how to make money for the rest of your life it's like the power of the dollar or

00:36:07.880 something like a little yeah i bought it never cracked it oh my god i wonder what book it was

00:36:12.600 i bet it didn't survive the move certainly not you put it in a in a local you know in one of

00:36:18.700 those freestanding libraries what are you one of my stacks no i mean oh you mean on the street

00:36:23.660 yeah yeah yeah yeah what are those called little libraries little tiny libraries oh yeah take a

00:36:29.460 book leave a book and it's always like absolute trash it's like a lanyard making seminar i'm

00:36:35.960 looking at some of the highlights from untethered soul if you're hearing it talk it's obviously not

00:36:42.680 you yeah sure i mean you know i'm laughing at the idea because i was about to posit that

00:36:51.500 look in 2011 a lot of people didn't even realize there was pure awareness behind the thoughts

00:36:55.940 like you know like a core concept of you know what I mean but but but it was a little more like

00:37:03.500 I don't know man I don't know

00:37:05.560 pretty pumped about Duckville definitely give it a shot folks anyone can make someone or something

00:37:17.080 do a task but can you roll with Novak's way well here's what's crazy and this is why I'm

00:37:22.680 i'm really excited about this handles exchanges returns home and car maintenance i mean for me

00:37:30.800 the doctor's appointments and the appointment stuff i mean i also was like you know can you

00:37:35.740 find this oh wait no that's too far can you actually do this and sort of like pivoting without

00:37:41.580 emotional problems sounds like heaven and so that um was working for me open the app do it

00:37:49.960 make it do a little research make it make some choices like give me three right because I get

00:37:54.580 overwhelmed like dermatologists in this area I'm like of course well wait do people really like

00:38:00.380 that one and then it pulls up some reviews like you know I find this kind of stuff quite helpful

00:38:06.120 so I do um encourage people to give it a shot and see if it works for them and explore it I do think

00:38:14.400 they make some cute ass comments on our our instagram feed so i know they're fans and

00:38:18.920 i'm happy to um encourage people to check them out get duckbill.com you're going to want to go

00:38:25.500 there and you're going to get 50 off your first two months with the code hacks five zero five

00:38:31.620 zero sweetheart half off at get duckbill.com wow with the code hags with the code hags baby

00:38:39.300 i would be curious if people try it out what some of the ways that they use it are and then they

00:38:44.000 tell us? Because I like to hear about how other people use things and then go, okay, that's

00:38:48.060 interesting. I was thinking about getting a soft cover again for my laptop so it wouldn't have that

00:39:02.540 cold metal feeling that makes me resist it. What do you mean? You know, like the cold metal of a

00:39:09.100 laptop when it's time to work and it's like cold. That you snap onto it? Yeah, yeah. Something that's

00:39:13.180 soft, more fabric. I guess I've never related to that. You've never related to it? To the laptop

00:39:19.340 being cold. Couldn't work. My laptop's too cold. I like that. But you don't really do hell work on

00:39:25.400 your laptop. That's not really where you do it, right? And I was thinking about putting something

00:39:31.260 on my computer that made it look like a house and then getting this idea in my head that my

00:39:36.580 computer is like this house that's hoarding ideas like cats. Okay. I need to get them out. And

00:39:42.520 hoarding project and i need to get them out they each deserve to be in the light they each deserve

00:39:46.800 to be you know given their own home and whatever so i was thinking about just because the image of

00:39:52.280 like the cats and being in a hoarded house really i don't know so i was just thinking like one at

00:39:56.380 a time pulling stuff out like i want to get to outbox zero you know inbox zero is like a big

00:40:03.420 idea how do people get to outbox zero okay i don't even know if that's a thing hopefully i coined it

00:40:08.540 I'm sure I didn't.

00:40:09.840 Okay.

00:40:10.400 Wait, what?

00:40:11.080 Well, that's what I'm posing.

00:40:12.340 The idea is like as a writer.

00:40:14.440 Everything's out?

00:40:15.100 As a writer.

00:40:15.760 Like, you know, because in Inbox, like the old days, like an actual box.

00:40:20.040 Oh, I see what you're saying.

00:40:21.700 Outgoing stuff.

00:40:22.740 Outgoing mail.

00:40:23.360 Outgoing whatever.

00:40:23.960 So I'm kind of like, I don't know.

00:40:25.440 I have to.

00:40:26.680 I have a massive layer to shed.

00:40:28.860 I wonder who I'll be after I've done it.

00:40:31.080 I can't wait to stick around and find out, doll.

00:40:33.220 Can't wait to meet that woman. 1.00

00:40:35.960 Drove by jar last night.

00:40:37.240 guess i'm going i'm going to the grove today i'm meeting my mom at the grove after this

00:40:41.100 and i have no purchases really except i was thinking how exciting might go go oh is there

00:40:46.340 anything i should return at sephora i think there kind of isn't no see that's a different lifestyle

00:40:51.240 everything i did on the bonus sephora haul guess what i'm using and i'm enjoying there it is and

00:40:56.800 by the way now that your bonus sephora haul should be in the hag shop available to all all people not

00:41:02.240 just sort of a late in the game they get to look at the stuff anyway point is your haul is there

00:41:06.460 Well, I love the haul.

00:41:07.360 I am about to, well, I've got some mascara at CVS.

00:41:11.640 You just reminded me that I have to rebuy, I guess I'll save it for Product Corner, the

00:41:17.100 best mascara, and I've tried them all.

00:41:19.860 I'm sorry.

00:41:20.760 Is it the one that you, don't say it until Product Corner, but is it the one that you

00:41:25.620 use on stage for a very particular reason?

00:41:28.520 No.

00:41:29.240 Okay.

00:41:29.680 Because that's not good for life, right?

00:41:30.520 No, that wouldn't be it.

00:41:31.580 Yeah.

00:41:32.880 And here we go.

00:41:33.860 where amazon it's so scary where they i still don't understand i need someone to explain to me

00:41:38.680 so funny like i see i look down and i see the instant pot has made it into my dad's office

00:41:43.620 why it's like they're that committed to not using it the second we're not here

00:41:47.900 it's in the office it's what's your family's reaction to your veganism

00:41:53.280 have you transferred your dad onto the instant pot no no no veganism oh um i mean no other than

00:42:01.800 you know other than i don't know gently making a meal maybe and going well that was filling you

00:42:10.620 know right right i mean i used to be afraid fish wouldn't fill me you know really well just in that

00:42:17.480 kind of general sense of i had a spelt crust that i really rather enjoyed in uh well dare i say it

00:42:25.620 hudson well i'm devastated to say you cut out so i couldn't hear what you said that's okay

00:42:32.480 you know it's like they're listening to us send each other letters but never arrive through the

00:42:38.460 ether yeah you watch any basketball never because it's really really good time i played basketball

00:42:46.160 never forget they wanted me for varsity

00:42:48.700 they scouted you they wanted me bad tonight it might be a good time to start

00:42:55.620 second game of the... You're watching basketball?

00:42:58.440 Who's playing? Well, the Knicks.

00:43:00.380 All of them? How does it work?

00:43:01.920 So there's the Eastern Conference, I think,

00:43:04.240 and the Western Conference, okay?

00:43:05.800 And I forget exactly how

00:43:08.080 it goes, but all the Eastern

00:43:09.880 teams play each other.

00:43:11.980 Western teams play each other, and then the winner

00:43:14.020 of those plays in the final.

00:43:16.140 In the final finals, right?

00:43:17.780 It's March! It's not.

00:43:20.360 Yeah.

00:43:21.260 March Madness.

00:43:24.940 So...

00:43:25.620 You and me in stand-up comedy competitions in March?

00:43:28.560 Do you remember those?

00:43:29.860 Sure do.

00:43:30.800 That's right, folks.

00:43:31.620 There were actual March Madness stand-up competitions between comedians in New York City.

00:43:35.600 Yeah, there probably still are.

00:43:36.660 Going head-to-head.

00:43:37.220 Who has the better set?

00:43:38.480 It's crazy.

00:43:39.320 So right now, it's like best of seven games, or you've got to win four games.

00:43:45.300 Knicks versus Pacers, and tonight's the second game.

00:43:48.700 So there's a lot of drama, Kate, okay?

00:43:50.940 because it's like the knicks lost the other night and it was like insane okay what do you mean

00:43:58.900 insane people lost because so in the last quarter in the last i think three minutes

00:44:05.020 because they won another one well no no this is the beginning of knicks v pacers to try to win to

00:44:12.580 to have won the eastern conference okay and it's seven games or when you win four games right so

00:44:18.520 one of them has happened already last three minutes the Knicks were up big time and then

00:44:24.400 the Pacers just came and took it away no it went into overtime three minutes yeah they scored like

00:44:29.800 you know it was like 14 points or whatever and I kind of love it when that happens you know it's

00:44:34.800 a thrill to watch even when it's not your team you go well still inspiring you know Larry David's on

00:44:39.360 the sidelines with his head in his hands okay oh my god but the point is it's the most fun sport 0.98

00:44:45.260 to watch because you see exactly what the hell's happening you don't need to know shit no football's 0.99

00:44:50.920 hell it's exhausting football yeah no way in no way in basketball's put the ball in the fucking 0.99

00:44:57.180 hoop run run run run yeah and then oh okay yeah that does you know foul it's out of the line you 0.98

00:45:02.800 know my feeling is how do you ever miss a foul shot i'm like it should be you should be a ref

00:45:08.300 I could see you.

00:45:12.240 You always see me in high stakes masculine and I love it.

00:45:16.860 I see you with the whistle.

00:45:18.400 No, no.

00:45:19.400 It's no good.

00:45:20.120 And I see coaches.

00:45:22.780 Okay.

00:45:23.360 Yeah.

00:45:23.800 I see you with the whistle.

00:45:24.600 And then telling the people.

00:45:25.780 Okay.

00:45:26.580 Yeah, you're out.

00:45:27.280 And I'm like.

00:45:27.660 It was out.

00:45:28.060 The ball's good.

00:45:29.180 Ball.

00:45:29.780 Nick's ball.

00:45:30.760 Yeah, exactly.

00:45:31.360 I see you.

00:45:31.820 And I see the coaches getting in your face and being like.

00:45:34.420 And you being like, no, no.

00:45:36.540 The ball was bad.

00:45:37.500 Whatever.

00:45:38.300 Is it only carding?

00:45:39.780 Is that only soccer?

00:45:40.680 That's got to be an equivalent in basketball.

00:45:42.720 Get carded.

00:45:43.360 What do they got?

00:45:44.100 What do they got?

00:45:44.760 I forget in basketball.

00:45:46.300 Flags?

00:45:46.880 Cards?

00:45:47.340 Probably cards.

00:45:48.960 Or it's not even like that because you just get your basketballs.

00:45:53.220 Point is, when this comes out, who knows?

00:45:56.540 They'll know what happened.

00:45:58.380 But there's certain sounds of basketball and sounds at the garden.

00:46:05.860 And like, there's just, there's these sounds that are very appealing, like even to fall

00:46:09.620 asleep to.

00:46:11.080 I just highly recommend that tonight you consider in three hours from now.

00:46:15.120 Okay.

00:46:15.440 Just getting, getting in there.

00:46:16.740 You can, you know, root for the Knicks.

00:46:18.280 You lived in New York City for a long time.

00:46:20.200 Okay.

00:46:20.520 I'm just saying like, I think you might get into it.

00:46:23.520 Interesting.

00:46:24.780 Look what I've got here.

00:46:25.900 What is that?

00:46:26.240 A small avocado?

00:46:27.640 No.

00:46:28.060 Can't really see it too well.

00:46:29.200 You get another shot.

00:46:33.220 You're pixelated.

00:46:34.140 So I need the people to understand

00:46:35.960 That it just looks like a small

00:46:38.140 Wilted sort of avocado

00:46:39.560 What is it?

00:46:40.660 It's a passion fruit

00:46:41.360 It's a passion fruit doll

00:46:47.280 Wow, never had one

00:46:48.760 Wait, are you kidding me?

00:46:50.180 No, like that

00:46:51.380 You've never opened one up?

00:46:53.880 I don't think I've had one in my house like that

00:46:56.760 It's not really in East Coast

00:46:58.740 No, not at all

00:46:59.860 It's a California culture

00:47:00.780 I mean, we all remember my discovery of the sumo orange

00:47:03.200 Yeah, of course

00:47:04.120 mere weeks ago. Well, I cut open a little stunner at my dinner party. It's not really a dinner

00:47:10.500 party. It's just two guests. You remind us again. Coconut, all one brand, coconut ice cream,

00:47:16.740 but passion fruit on top. Showstopper. Is passion fruit bright pink? No, it's yellow.

00:47:25.220 Oh, yeah. I'm lost. Maybe you're thinking of dragon fruit. I sure am. Yeah. That's the stuff

00:47:30.380 i'm thinking of well another electric episode of our podcast as usual we invite the listener to

00:47:38.200 just come into a sense of presence to just drop into your body notice where you're feeling tension

00:47:44.900 notice where there's ease don't feel any need to change it just just notice it okay notice

00:47:54.100 what you came into this episode with and how you felt at the beginning have we lifted any agitation

00:48:02.620 have we provided agitation have we been a friend have we been a foe what did you leave at the door

00:48:09.540 when you came into this episode and what are you going to leave the door on your way out yeah

00:48:13.800 just reminded me i think i may almost have nailed um that's not true but i've started to head

00:48:20.900 towards bird of paradise moving from the deep squat remember i was trying to show you that thing

00:48:25.960 i can kind of like almost do it it's very satisfying the new me imagine the new me poses

00:48:34.780 yoga poses hey it's always been with you you're my most devout yoga friend really yeah definitely

00:48:42.680 hysterical i think so well off to the grove i go so the grove for those who are not local is a

00:48:50.440 open-air mall

00:48:52.600 that's also partially enclosed. 0.94

00:48:55.020 If you listen to this podcast, I know what the girl is.

00:48:56.960 Well, honey, you never know.

00:48:59.260 Gotta say, my brow looks pretty good.

00:49:01.140 The shaping. It does. It looks very chic.

00:49:03.420 The overall, don't they look like...

00:49:05.400 And it's... I did something quite subtle yet

00:49:07.340 exciting.

00:49:08.840 Here, this will be our... We'll do my eyebrow

00:49:11.320 demonstration and bonus, okay?

00:49:13.280 Okay. Anyway, love you.

00:49:15.120 Love you. Love you.

00:49:20.440 Transcription by CastingWords

Poog with Kate Berlant and Jacqueline Novak - June 10, 2025

High Stakes Masculine

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