There Are No Girls on the Internet - Activision Blizzard's toxic workplace for women： STUFF MOM NEVER TOLD YOU

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00:00:05.180 Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches,

00:00:08.020 there's a lot of suspense.

00:00:09.440 Will they finally eat the veggies?

00:00:10.940 Will the pesto survive the first bite?

00:00:12.980 Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all?

00:00:17.020 And will you finish Episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers?

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00:00:49.980 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

00:00:55.400 Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

00:01:04.060 Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions.

00:01:12.300 Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.

00:01:14.080 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:01:19.460 I survived nine months in captivity, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive

00:01:26.780 what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.

00:01:32.380 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled,

00:01:38.200 and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:01:43.380 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:01:55.540 There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.

00:02:03.640 I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.

00:02:06.400 two weeks ago the wall street journal dropped a new report detailing new allegations of sexual

00:02:13.420 harassment misogyny and toxic sexism from the leadership at activision blizzard the company

00:02:18.800 behind games like candy crush call of duty and world of warcraft and one of the largest and most

00:02:23.820 influential gaming companies in the world i joined my friends samantha and annie at the podcast stuff

00:02:29.720 mom never told you to dig into what we know about how video game companies fail women

00:02:33.940 and why it matters for all of us.

00:02:36.580 And if you're a gamer, I want to hear from you.

00:02:38.700 What has your experience as a gamer been like?

00:02:40.760 Have you ever faced harassment while gaming?

00:02:43.320 After you listen to the episode, let us know at hello at tangoti.com.

00:02:52.480 Hey, this is Annie.

00:02:53.720 And Samantha.

00:02:54.540 And welcome to Stuff I Never Told You, a production of iHeartRadio.

00:03:03.940 Today, we are once again joined by our good friend and the amazing, wonderful Bridget Todd.

00:03:12.820 Thank you so much for joining us, Bridget.

00:03:14.620 Oh, thanks for having me. Y'all always give me the most warm welcomes.

00:03:18.360 I love the intros.

00:03:19.920 Because we're so happy to have you.

00:03:21.900 We are so excited to have you.

00:03:24.200 Yes. So, Bridget, do you have any fun things on the horizon? Any plans coming up?

00:03:29.540 Yes. Well, the most fun thing that I have on the horizon is that my partner and I do this thing.

00:03:33.800 every holiday season that we call Weirdo Christmas.

00:03:37.480 And we, I actually hope,

00:03:38.980 I think that everybody should try it out.

00:03:41.680 Weirdo Christmas is an activity that we do

00:03:43.740 where after Thanksgiving, but before Christmas,

00:03:46.340 we go on our own little solo trip

00:03:49.520 to sort of, you know, have fun

00:03:51.640 before the official holiday season.

00:03:53.720 And we bring costumes and lights

00:03:56.480 and just have a weird time.

00:03:58.960 And it's just a fun way to sort of,

00:04:01.100 if you're from like a traditional family

00:04:03.080 that does Christmas in a very traditional way can just be a fun way to counterbalance that so

00:04:07.660 weirdo Christmas 2021 coming up very excited oh I love it what kind of costumes you got planned

00:04:13.560 mine the last time I but we did this I wore a fur hat and a fur vest and fur boots

00:04:19.080 I was like a fur theme I think double down on the fur again okay yeah I'm into it yeah I encourage

00:04:27.940 people to like whatever, you know, your weirdness looks like just because people are like weirdos

00:04:34.160 or non-traditionalists doesn't mean that we can't also enjoy like holiday cheer and festivity. And

00:04:39.100 so I used to always feel a little alienated around Christmas time. You know, I felt like

00:04:44.080 if I wasn't doing something super traditional around the holidays and like you basically

00:04:47.980 didn't have any way to celebrate. And that's not true because you can always celebrate weirdo

00:04:52.700 christmas i love this that's fantastic yeah yeah i will say like as a person who does not love the

00:04:59.880 holidays in general doing something completely off the cuff it sounds better especially if you

00:05:05.540 can establish it yourself i will say annie and i seem to do kind of that for new years where we

00:05:11.640 dress up as something random like i have a couple of onesies that i like to put on and we will cheers

00:05:16.920 each other through whether it's like us pictures or text but we're wearing costumes yes I love it

00:05:23.880 are you gonna do it this year usually yes I don't know why we just kind of like we give up on going

00:05:30.900 out let's do this instead I think it's because um new years is such a I've had great new years

00:05:37.580 but generally I feel like the pressure is very intense and it's always a mess and so I was kind

00:05:43.040 of like I want to stay in I'm gonna read my fan fiction and then it became we'll wear onesies and

00:05:49.420 drink champagne at midnight and cheers each other see I love that because just because you're not

00:05:56.180 somebody who is interested in spending hundreds of dollars to have a you know less than stellar

00:06:01.340 night on New Year's Eve doesn't mean that you should get to miss out on like New Year's Eve

00:06:05.140 holiday merriment like that's exactly this in the spirit of weirdo Christmas that you should like

00:06:10.760 not wanting to do the traditional thing that everybody does doesn't mean that you should just

00:06:14.480 be boxed out of getting to you know have festivity and merriment so i like this we need to we need to

00:06:20.500 roll in we'll do weirdo christmas weirdo new year's yes a whole slate of weirdo holidays

00:06:25.560 calendar going yes there we go i'm gonna be on this google's calendar let's go i love it i think

00:06:32.480 we should sell one let's make money off this um so i also wanted to before we dive into this topic

00:06:40.180 which I'm both very excited and very like anxious slash nervous slash angry to

00:06:46.040 talk about. I wanted to talk about, I'm a, I'm a very big gamer.

00:06:49.940 I think a lot of the listeners know that I've always played video games and I've

00:06:53.460 always played in quotes,

00:06:55.880 traditional video games being like Nintendo, Super Nintendo, PlayStation,

00:07:00.220 like those kinds of console video games.

00:07:02.160 And I have a lot of history and experience with that,

00:07:04.260 But I wanted to ask the both of you what your experience with gaming at large, not just console gaming is.

00:07:13.940 I've always thought that was one of the coolest things about you, Annie, is how into console gaming you are.

00:07:18.780 I wish that I was. I aspire to be.

00:07:21.340 I don't really play much these days.

00:07:24.020 When I was younger, I really liked World of Warcraft.

00:07:27.720 Going back even further, I was very much into like Super Nintendo.

00:07:31.860 When the pandemic first started, we got one of those, I guess, what do you, an emulator?

00:07:36.380 I don't know what you call it, but like to be able to play old Sega games and old Super

00:07:41.160 Nintendo games on our TV.

00:07:42.580 And I remember, I was like, oh, my gosh, how much I loved, how much I loved and was obsessed

00:07:47.300 with those growing up.

00:07:48.660 But these days, not so much.

00:07:51.140 I'm so curious, Sam, what your relationship to gaming has looked like.

00:07:55.040 um i would be the boomer who did not understand and does not understand these games to the point

00:08:01.640 that i still ask both annie and my partner i'm like okay so the point of this game is a b c d

00:08:07.780 and then just sit there and look at them puzzled uh i do that's a lot because i still have to ask

00:08:14.040 especially when it comes to console games a lot of questions i never really grew into that really

00:08:18.880 cared about it much growing up i did buy a switch during the pandemic because i was like oh well

00:08:25.020 i can play these games so these games being mario party where essentially it's just kind of a chance

00:08:30.400 and i get very mad at everyone uh about it because they all cheat i'm pretty sure

00:08:35.440 um mario kart same thing i do like to announce how many times i fall off because again i don't

00:08:41.460 quite understand the buttons uh same thing with any of those kind of things but i do enjoy it to

00:08:46.360 an extent until i'm frustrated that i'm like i don't know what y'all are doing you keep telling

00:08:50.540 me to push button this this and this that doesn't make sense my fingers don't do this so that's how

00:08:57.540 I feel about those games but I've tried I've got I've grown to like them more and more but I am

00:09:02.220 more of a phone game person and I always have I did really enjoy I guess the really first big game

00:09:09.280 that I played and I know we're gonna talk a little bit about them was Candy Crush that has since been

00:09:15.220 taken off to make room for uh games that are the puzzle games that have a narrative in it and 0.90

00:09:21.240 and we've talked about it previously on a monday mini because those damn ads that we talked about

00:09:27.420 that has those dramatic leaving somebody cheating on somebody murdering somebody apparently um had 0.75

00:09:35.560 really reeled me in to being like what is this game i need to know and to the point that i've

00:09:42.680 tried to reel any in on at least one we talked about lily's garden and uh bridget if you have

00:09:48.200 a chance i need you to play this game as well not a sponsor not a sponsor and it was created by

00:09:55.580 a woman so the woman did this whole game and she did all of the programming behind it and you can

00:10:01.860 kind of tell by the relationships in it so i'm like huh it is definitely different than the other 0.97

00:10:08.240 games where it's just like oh this girl looks like your typical uh white sorority girl who has

00:10:14.040 all these stereotypes attached to her talking to a cute white boy and that's this this one is a

00:10:19.500 little different and i was like well and now i'm really caught up in it so that is my gaming

00:10:25.660 expertise and annie had to tell me that this was gaming because i was like no i don't i don't what

00:10:30.980 i don't know what you're talking about i just play on my phone yes i mean that's so funny where do

00:10:36.660 you think this idea that playing if you if you like quote just play on your phone that you're

00:10:41.480 not actually gaming like where did that attitude come from i think it came from let's see if i can

00:10:47.680 condense this so in the 80s uh toys were gendered and video games were coming out at that time and

00:10:54.540 they got put into boys toys because the marketers at the time thought um that they would have more

00:11:01.140 success in that category it fit more into that category and so it became a like boys arena and

00:11:08.320 therefore like any girl entering into that space and I speak from experience was seen as sort of

00:11:14.840 like an anomaly and like why are you coming in here this is like are you trying to

00:11:19.320 trick us into thinking that you're good or look how cute she thinks she can do this

00:11:25.660 or like once you get older are you trying to get a date and so I think it became a very like boys

00:11:31.740 space and so that became serious gaming and so when phone games came out and everybody who had

00:11:37.820 a phone had more access to it and especially women were coming in and playing that became like that's

00:11:43.780 frivolous gaming that is not gaming I I being the boy who has grown up with this I am the serious 0.85

00:11:51.880 gamer and this is what gaming is i think it's another example of gatekeeping around that

00:11:57.540 that makes me so sad it is very tragic i will say i am in level 3000 something look at this this is

00:12:06.560 a pro we got a pro on here you should demand respect i demand respect yes this is what i do

00:12:18.440 rather than spending time with people well and just to add to that before we get into this

00:12:23.660 for a long time the kind of running commentary around this has been most gamers are men but

00:12:30.240 when you add in phone games like games in my opinion but yes phone games then it does skew

00:12:36.020 towards women but as in the last two years i believe even uh quote serious gaming or console

00:12:41.840 gaming more women uh play than men so i think we really got to reframe our thoughts around what a

00:12:50.360 gamer looks like definitely and i think it really speaks to sort of the dark arts of marketing

00:12:56.020 you see this all over tech where the demographic that is being marketed to and thus sort of

00:13:02.820 creating this perception of they're the main the biggest demographic like that that has done so

00:13:08.540 much bad stuff in terms of making these different industries and across technology look like who is 0.99

00:13:15.040 who actually makes them up like who's actually in them and so even while women are making up this

00:13:21.160 lion's share of people who are gaming marketing still would have you believe that that's not true

00:13:25.520 right so whether we the way that we our perceptions of it is still so warped and it doesn't actually

00:13:29.660 you know align with the reality of who is actually in this demographic right and i think even in the

00:13:36.340 games that are getting made and how women are portrayed in a lot of those games, it would

00:13:40.740 very much lead you to believe that men are the intended audience and the preferred audience.

00:13:53.180 Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they

00:13:57.660 finally eat the veggies? Will the pesto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty,

00:14:02.760 have full, or come home at all.

00:14:05.060 And will you finish episode eight

00:14:06.420 before you're done slicing the cucumbers?

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00:14:20.380 Bell, connection is everything.

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00:14:53.020 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality,

00:14:57.340 welcome home.

00:14:58.960 This is Prose Society,

00:15:00.740 the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters,

00:15:05.380 pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the

00:15:09.700 same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books,

00:15:15.120 the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.

00:15:18.540 I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. So obsessed.

00:15:22.120 From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments,

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00:15:51.200 See you between the pages.

00:15:53.160 When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped.

00:15:56.540 and held captive for nine months.

00:15:59.040 I survived, and I've spent my life exploring

00:16:01.660 how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

00:16:05.400 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.

00:16:09.100 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear 0.96

00:16:13.760 saying, shut up, don't say anything.

00:16:17.200 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. 0.98

00:16:21.440 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.

00:16:26.200 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.

00:16:33.800 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:16:37.700 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

00:16:41.160 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:16:44.780 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app,

00:16:49.540 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:16:56.200 so let's talk about what you brought today Bridget as infuriating as it is very important

00:17:04.760 to talk about and really ongoing situation which is what is going on with Activision Blizzard

00:17:11.260 yeah so I'm so glad that you grounded this in the idea that it is ongoing this is a current

00:17:16.880 conversation uh the I it first came on my radar over the summer um but it is completely ongoing

00:17:23.200 and just last week, you know, new updates in it.

00:17:26.120 So essentially, the gaming company Activision Blizzard,

00:17:29.520 they're under fire for allegations the company

00:17:31.540 has fostered a really toxic workplace

00:17:33.680 where their women staffers are mistreated and harassed 1.00

00:17:37.440 and are just not treated equally.

00:17:39.020 And last week, new reporting from the Wall Street Journal

00:17:41.300 has really shed new light on these allegations.

00:17:44.080 And, you know, last week, the staff has been mobilizing.

00:17:46.700 They had a walkout.

00:17:47.840 And so I think, you know,

00:17:49.420 when we think about different arenas and technology,

00:17:52.440 some people who don't game might be listening to this and think like oh well big deal who cares

00:17:57.840 but particularly as more and more young people are finding themselves on online worlds and

00:18:03.060 online platforms built by you know gaming companies it is really important to think

00:18:07.400 through like how are these how are these games where so many young people are spending their

00:18:11.740 time how do they come to be what kind of cultures are they coming up in and so that's one of the

00:18:15.940 reasons why I think this this story is such a big deal Activision Blizzard is also just a big deal

00:18:21.680 as a company they're a major gaming company they produce candy crush call of duty overwatch and

00:18:26.820 world of warcraft so major games and uh it's probably i think it's i think it in 2018 at

00:18:33.320 least it was the biggest gaming company in both the united states and europe so like not only is

00:18:38.840 it an important story in terms of the culture these games are being produced in it's also a

00:18:42.340 major business story because we're talking huge global companies and the climates that these big

00:18:47.720 companies foster can really make a difference in the industry and like what the industry is like

00:18:52.560 yeah they're they're hugely influential they make like billions and billions of dollars

00:18:56.620 and yeah having such a big player in that space does ripple out and impact all these other um

00:19:05.380 players in that space and I know like I've read some of the stories of people um women who have

00:19:12.000 worked at these companies and it's just horrific and to like have them be so excited because they've

00:19:17.480 grew up playing games or they it was really important to them and to be so excited to get

00:19:21.760 this opportunity and then it's just awful the amount of harassment uh they faced which have

00:19:29.020 started coming out over the past few years right yeah so um there was a two-year investigation

00:19:36.080 but concluded in july the california department of fair employment and housing filed a lawsuit

00:19:40.860 over the summer alleging sexual discrimination harassment and like a general kind of frat boy

00:19:46.160 culture at Activision Blizzard. And the investigation found that the company

00:19:50.120 discriminated against female employees in both terms and conditions of employment,

00:19:54.180 including compensation, assignment, promotion, and termination, and that company leadership

00:19:58.560 consistently failed to take steps to prevent discrimination, harassment, and retaliation.

00:20:03.380 And like you were saying, when you get into some of the specific stories of the kinds of things

00:20:09.100 that went on here, like one of the allegations that was made was that the men at the company

00:20:14.100 would often do these things called cube crawls

00:20:16.380 in which male employees

00:20:17.540 would drink copious amounts of alcohol 0.78

00:20:19.500 as they crawl their way

00:20:21.200 through various cubicles in the office

00:20:22.900 and engage in inappropriate behavior

00:20:24.720 toward female employees. 1.00

00:20:26.360 Like, imagine if that was just the thing 1.00

00:20:28.580 that happened in your workplace, right?

00:20:30.540 That, oh, it's Thursday. 0.97

00:20:32.380 Obviously the male staffers

00:20:33.800 are all going to get really drunk 0.95

00:20:34.980 and crawl on their hands and knees into my office

00:20:37.420 and harass me while I'm trying to work.

00:20:40.800 Like, some of the allegations that have come out

00:20:43.240 are just so horrifying and it's like I can just just like what you were saying I can imagine being

00:20:49.220 so excited to work at a company that is so influential in the gaming space and then get

00:20:54.600 there and be like oh actually I have to put up with the most degrading behavior just to do my

00:21:00.380 job here right it sends a really clear message of whether like the company culture and who belongs

00:21:08.200 and who doesn't and like what the kind of status quo how they view you is someone who it's okay to

00:21:16.620 harass like your job is not important or that you are kind of that outlier that you know why are you

00:21:24.900 here is it to get a man or to just for us to to kind of ogle and harass at your job okay right

00:21:33.840 I'm thinking like, I wonder how much it took for them to even get an interview to go through

00:21:38.860 how, and we've talked about how in general women, when they apply for anything, they

00:21:43.920 have to be sure like they are 120% qualified before they even attempt it.

00:21:48.380 So making sure that they're able to prove that they can work there and then going through

00:21:52.020 all of the hoops because they have to do so much more than men typically.

00:21:56.000 And within a business like this, you have to do even more to prove that you are worthy

00:22:00.360 and knowledgeable of these things and then coming into there and being dismissed as if you were an

00:22:05.680 intern not that interns should be treated this way either but essentially as if you're coming to

00:22:10.060 learn instead of being a professional and being like hey i'm here and then watching this nonsense

00:22:13.700 like i would that makes me want to throw things for sure yes it's infuriating and there are some

00:22:20.860 of the details coming out i'm just like wow somebody somewhere thought this was acceptable

00:22:25.760 Like, um, in one example, an Activision employee had for years just signed his email signature

00:22:31.780 1-800-ALL-C***.

00:22:34.400 And, you know, in this, in this, uh, Wall Street Journal podcast that broke these, broke

00:22:38.660 these new allegations, she makes this good point, you know? 0.89

00:22:41.320 So if you're a woman, you would get an email and just be like, this is normal. 0.82

00:22:44.440 It is normal to get an email that has this sign off.

00:22:47.140 Um, and then to make things worse, this employee worked there for a month, right?

00:22:52.260 Like they took a month for them to fire this employee.

00:22:54.640 and they had an investigation and part of me is like what was there even to investigate like

00:22:58.840 what did that investigation even look like right you're like it's right there here's the email

00:23:04.900 either go ahead and discipline them or why are we waiting a month right um and then like the saddest

00:23:11.860 thing is this is pretty sad so like if you're someone who you know it has a difficult time

00:23:18.500 talking about suicide i'm sorry to report that this is something that happened um the suit also

00:23:23.080 points that a female Activision employee died by suicide while on a company trip with her male

00:23:27.740 supervisor. The employee had been subjected to intense sexual harassment prior to her death,

00:23:32.780 including having nude photos of her passed around at a company holiday party. And, you know, I think

00:23:39.240 that just really underscores the seriousness of what was going on and the seriousness of the

00:23:44.360 of the toxic culture that was happening at Activision that somebody died by

00:23:51.340 suicide with, in regards to it.

00:23:53.720 Yeah. Yeah. And, and because, as we said, this is ongoing,

00:23:57.700 like it's not like something happened,

00:24:00.480 something tragic like this happened and then they fixed it. It was,

00:24:04.080 Oh, you know, we've known this has been going on.

00:24:07.380 This is sort of the accepted culture. Let's move on from this.

00:24:11.340 and that's been one of the most frustrating,

00:24:15.340 like all of it's really upsetting,

00:24:16.560 but that's been one of the most frustrating things

00:24:18.440 is it's like all of these instances

00:24:21.000 over and over and over

00:24:23.020 and it seems that they just really could care less.

00:24:27.160 They're like, all right,

00:24:28.780 let's just wait for this publicity to blow over.

00:24:31.620 It'll be fine and we'll continue as we've done

00:24:35.180 and that's acceptable to them.

00:24:37.600 Yeah, that is the message

00:24:39.520 that I think they're putting out.

00:24:41.880 I think just like you,

00:24:43.540 when I heard about this employee who died by suicide,

00:24:46.600 I thought certainly this will be,

00:24:49.160 like it's obvious to anyone

00:24:51.080 that big changes are necessary.

00:24:53.900 A change in leadership, a change in culture.

00:24:56.220 This is not the kind of thing that I think training

00:24:58.640 or bringing in a counselor is going to help.

00:25:01.780 And then I was really surprised to see that,

00:25:04.700 you know, initially the company was saying like,

00:25:07.940 these reports aren't true.

00:25:09.180 It just showed it just showed me that they weren't taking it very seriously.

00:25:12.320 So when these allegations first surfaced in the summer, Activision CEO Bobby Kotick, he denied the allegations, saying that the lawsuit allegations were inaccurate, adding that the picture that the lawsuit paints is not the Blizzard workplace of today.

00:25:25.240 but the staff really say otherwise and so a lot of them put the blame squarely on his shoulders as

00:25:33.260 like the ceo of this company the seat the person who is overseeing all of this like really toxic

00:25:38.900 stuff and what's really upsetting to me is that initially bobby kotick was denying that he had

00:25:45.960 any knowledge of this kind of conduct happening right uh he was like i i have no awareness of

00:25:51.880 this. I didn't know this was happening. And it wasn't until after this lawsuit came out that

00:25:56.300 in October, he eventually apologized to the staff and agreed to pay $18 million in settlement with

00:26:02.000 federal regulators and pledged to take steps to improve how the company treats employees.

00:26:07.460 And so you might think, you know, okay, like that's the end of the story. Like they paid the

00:26:13.660 money. They apologized. They pledged to do better. But this is why the story is continuing because

00:26:19.440 the Wall Street Journal reported that not only did he know about this behavior, he was an active

00:26:24.260 participant himself in this behavior. And so what's really funny is that in his kind of apology

00:26:30.420 tour, he was like, now Blizzard is going to have a zero tolerance policy against this kind of

00:26:35.240 behavior, but that he had to specifically note that that policy was not inclusive of his own

00:26:41.000 behavior. He was like, oh, well, it's zero tolerance, but like, not for me. I'm a CEO, so, you know.

00:26:49.440 it's all good yeah i mean i know like um players have have kind of spoken out and you know said

00:26:58.880 done like strikes where they won't play and uh the workers have spoken out but still still uh

00:27:05.820 this guy is still around despite like a lot of allegations coming out against him oh yes so some

00:27:13.420 of the allegations against him specifically according to the wall street journal over the

00:27:17.760 years Mr. Kotick himself has been accused by several women of mistreatment both inside and

00:27:22.620 outside of the workplace in some instances he has worked to settle those complaints quickly and

00:27:26.700 quietly so a couple of the specific allegations in 2006 he reportedly harassed one of his assistants

00:27:31.980 including threatening in a voicemail to have her killed oh my gosh I'm actually if your boss was

00:27:37.580 like I'll have you killed it's like no it's shocking yes yes I mean a lot of it's one of 0.96

00:27:48.460 those things when you read about this that there's almost a part of you that's like this can't be 0.98

00:27:53.100 real but in the back of your head you're like no unfortunately I think it is I mean this is kind of

00:27:59.860 like a big part of narcissists that get power you see these levels like that they think they're

00:28:05.220 untouchable as well as the fact that no just saying that is actually a felony that is a felony

00:28:10.420 um but congratulations you have money and i'm assuming he's white you can move on oh he is

00:28:16.380 it's funny because he's almost like in some of these reports he kind of comes off as like a

00:28:22.240 mega wealthy like mega powerful super villain uh you know in 2007 he allegedly told a private jet

00:28:30.360 flight attendant who was suing him for sexual harassment committed by his the pilot of his

00:28:34.800 private jet I'm going to destroy you I feel like telling a flight attendant on your private jet 0.98

00:28:40.000 I'm going to destroy you is some like Mr. Burns level powerful narcissist run amok with power 0.98

00:28:48.940 and money stuff oh yeah oh yeah and I mean I can just imagine like if he you know has played video 0.83

00:28:59.580 games that he sees himself as like the hero of this story or like the powerful I can do anything

00:29:05.720 because I've like ascended every level in this video game that is this company that I run

00:29:11.360 and I can treat people however I I want yeah in my mind I'm seeing like a Harvey Weinstein of

00:29:18.020 this industry because that's exactly what he would do with women that would just say no to him and in

00:29:24.660 my mind this seems to be what he is doing with women uh if he's threatening them and willing to

00:29:30.440 go to harm them whatever they there's no telling what he has actually done that people are not

00:29:35.460 speaking out about yet that's such a good point and i think that harvey weinstein comparison is

00:29:40.180 apt and i do think that the kind of things that he's being accused of i think really illustrate

00:29:47.860 a just a particular kind of view of women that women are around to serve you and to do whatever

00:29:56.600 you want them to do and that the idea that like a woman would say no to you the idea that a woman

00:30:02.060 who works on your private jet would sue you for the behavior of your of your pilot you know i

00:30:07.860 think that the way that he responds to these women it just really illustrates a very particular kind

00:30:12.860 of view of women just as there to be in service of powerful men, regardless of what their

00:30:20.980 actual role is, um, in the organization.

00:30:23.720 And so another thing to point out is that I believe the, so like in terms of that voicemail

00:30:29.560 where he told his assistant that he would have her killed, he's through a spokesperson.

00:30:33.060 He said that he immediately apologized for that incident and that he, that he regretted

00:30:37.360 it.

00:30:37.860 I think the only reason that he said that is because it's on a voicemail.

00:30:40.860 i think that if there was not you know audio of him saying it so he can't deny it he i don't think

00:30:47.160 he ever would be like oh yeah i definitely said that i regretted it i apologized you know this

00:30:51.420 that and the third i think the only reason he did that is because she you know if it's a voicemail

00:30:55.320 you have proof right right yeah i think so too and i think again this is like my very personal

00:31:01.820 experience but i have had a lot of run-ins with some real nasty gamer bros and i feel like a lot

00:31:06.660 of like what you were saying bridget of like seeing women in a certain way i think there's a lot of

00:31:09.960 like really condescending like oh she's so cute oh she's so cute she thinks she can like threat 0.72

00:31:22.320 me or she thinks she can come into this world like I'm all she's only here because I'm letting 1.00

00:31:26.000 her be here she ignore if she annoys me if she does something I don't like then like I will 1.00

00:31:31.720 threaten her with violence like immediately get her out or find a way to silence her because yeah 0.99

00:31:37.920 I do think a lot of it is like she only exists here because I allow her to exist here, which is very, very toxic and gross.

00:31:46.220 I mean, how do you even as a gamer yourself, how do you continue to show up and put yourself out there?

00:31:54.800 Even if you're playing with someone who seems accommodating and nice and like maybe they're like, you know, a feminist.

00:32:01.840 but to know in the back of your head if I do something that he doesn't like he could flip

00:32:06.680 on me and turn on me and I would I would see this other side how do you continue to show up and put

00:32:11.060 yourself out there knowing this? Yeah I mean that's that's the what really breaks my heart

00:32:19.680 about a lot of this because I stopped online gaming when I was 12 because I had already at

00:32:25.980 that point received enough threats and harassment that it was not worth it for me and it became such

00:32:31.600 a scary experience and i know that this has changed but for a while like the xbox live

00:32:38.160 guidelines had a bullet point in there that was like if you're being harassed you can leave

00:32:44.680 essentially like not addressing the problem but being like uh you know it's gonna happen so

00:32:50.980 too bad i do still i do still play but it's much more like i play by myself or with friends that i

00:32:57.920 know i do have when i was in college i went to a technical college and um i entered a super smash

00:33:05.080 brothers tournament and i won five hundred dollars but every other competitor which you can all bet

00:33:12.040 they were all men and some of them were my friends did flip out on me and they were like you cheated

00:33:18.400 there's no way she could not have one that is impossible and i was like i mean people were

00:33:27.400 watching man like i didn't cheat you just didn't think i was a threat so you didn't come at me and

00:33:33.720 you all died right they all killed each other which was my tactic but it doesn't work because

00:33:39.640 i fall off anyway uh but you know we've talked about the story actually just uh this weekend

00:33:45.780 annie and i and just talking about how men in general in these gaming worlds really don't see

00:33:51.040 women as threats or if they are threats it's because they are too sexual and or something

00:33:55.180 or for their gaze so for the male gaze in general uh and i was thinking about that with like feminist 1.00

00:34:01.240 frequency they were established because they're trying to protect the women in this industry and

00:34:06.000 those who are non-binary or those who identify as women like they are really trying but even to this

00:34:11.000 day and when i look at when they do fundraisers or when they have like uh things live the amount

00:34:16.880 of harassment just for existing to help women is incredible and the amount of just trolls coming

00:34:24.860 at them today when i'm like oh my god have you not been listening to the fact that the growing

00:34:30.980 number of women who are love gaming a b who are actually here helping you whether it's helping 1.00

00:34:37.240 programming these new games that you're really into and developing these new characters that

00:34:41.520 you're really into but yet you don't want to acknowledge that it's such a whole level of like

00:34:46.080 why why do you hate women so much why does this industry continue to foster a place of hate

00:34:52.040 against women because things like twitch is still having complaints about hey you need to control

00:34:57.680 the level of harassment that is happening but you because of you being silent nothing is happening

00:35:03.020 yeah absolutely and i think it speaks to annie's point about this idea of like if you don't like

00:35:09.860 it you can leave i think that there's a misconception that women who game are sort of

00:35:17.140 putting themselves in a position to be harassed and if they don't want to be harassed they should 0.93

00:35:21.960 leave. And it leaves out this idea of like, well, women shouldn't have to be harassed just to play

00:35:26.520 games. Right. And I think that for a lot of these women who work at Activision, I think the attitude

00:35:31.220 is, you know, you're working at a, at a bro-y video game company. What did you expect? Like

00:35:35.900 it really puts the onus on people who have been harassed and survivors to get themselves out of

00:35:43.080 situations that they should not be in the first place. And I think that's exact, it's like a

00:35:46.300 cultural attitude that really blames survivors and blames victims for, you know, systems that

00:35:54.180 they did not create that leads to them being harmed. And, you know, it is, Sam, to your point,

00:35:59.920 I do think that we all know that games are better, more inclusive, more interesting when

00:36:07.160 they're built by inclusive teams. And so your product can only be more engaging if women are 1.00

00:36:14.240 around to help design it like you were talking about how Lily's Garden is a more fun game for 1.00

00:36:19.500 you because you can tell it was you know put put together by a woman and it's better than the games

00:36:23.680 where you can tell it's designed by a team of men who probably don't know any women and you know

00:36:28.700 have no sense of like what a woman is going to want from a game like this right and so we know

00:36:33.160 that things are better when women are included and valued and supported and championed and it 0.64

00:36:38.520 makes me sad that the gaming industry just can't get it together to you know reflect that reality

00:36:46.360 you know the biggest question to me is like if you are a company that wants to grow and truly

00:36:51.900 are looking to make money why wouldn't you want more people if you're all do you really want to

00:36:57.920 just cater for half the population when you can have the whole population hello i really think 1.00

00:37:03.740 they hate women that much honestly I don't think they want them in their audience and I say that

00:37:08.660 as someone who loves games and I play plenty of games made by women who are great and really

00:37:12.300 inclusive and I played games made by men that are great really inclusive but I feel like the

00:37:16.640 industry at a whole especially this like console gaming level they are so resistant to it and

00:37:23.500 they're just like I think they don't like they don't want women in their audience because they

00:37:27.200 They think it'll demean the value of their products.

00:37:31.640 And I think also they're so afraid of pissing them off.

00:37:35.860 They're very angry.

00:37:36.760 Because this is another note I want to make. 1.00

00:37:38.320 When they like harass you, it's like threats to kill you or rape you. 1.00

00:37:41.900 It's not like, hey, you suck. 1.00

00:37:44.320 It's like, I'm going to find your address and send it to people. 0.99

00:37:47.260 Like, it's scary. 1.00

00:37:50.060 It jumps to this, I'm going to rape you and harm you in a way that I know is going to violate you 1.00

00:37:54.980 and make you know that I'm a man. 1.00

00:37:56.840 Right.

00:37:57.200 which is in itself a whole level that honestly all of this just again kind of talks about when

00:38:03.880 you were talking about this industry in general about being a frat club or a good old boy club

00:38:10.260 and i see that continuously when you see the higher ups being just friends of theirs coming 0.84

00:38:16.000 up with the same damn attitude that may have a lesser record or the lesser known record than 0.95

00:38:21.220 the previous person which is so like then you're just fostering once again more of this nastiness 0.99

00:38:27.180 that you are saying you want to prevent now oh i completely agree it's such it's such a vicious

00:38:33.020 toxic cycle uh i don't actually know if i believe that some of these places can be reformed or

00:38:44.340 improved without massive structural changes like reading the blizzard statement where they're like

00:38:51.220 oh we're bringing in a counselor we're bringing in a you know we're gonna do more training i don't

00:38:56.520 think that these men need to be trained to know that signing your emails 1-800-CUT is not

00:39:03.160 professional. I don't, I don't think, I don't think that that's going to cut it. I don't think

00:39:06.100 that like a training is going to be the thing to, to, you know, help men in this company understand

00:39:13.080 that crawling into your female co-worker's office while drunk to harass her is not acceptable 0.91

00:39:18.880 workplace behavior. And so I'm really curious if this can all be improved, but it sounds to me

00:39:26.080 so toxic from the very very top you know the ceo to the guys who are playing the games threatening

00:39:32.800 to murder you and the platforms being like that's okay that is that is you know if that that's part

00:39:39.080 of gameplay if you don't want to be involved in that don't play the game like there are just so

00:39:43.480 many levels to how bad it is that it can be very dismaying right and i do wonder too like when you

00:39:48.900 talk about them saying we're going to bring in counselors we're going to teach these tactics

00:39:51.960 And we're going to talk about, you know, workplace safety and all this.

00:39:55.120 But I'm like, who are you really keeping safe?

00:39:56.500 If the people that have made this place unsafe still exist there, then who are you truly keeping safe?

00:40:03.300 It's not the victims. The victims have to be there with them.

00:40:05.660 The victims who have been threatened by these people or harassed by these people or continually told, you know, all of these nasty comments by these people.

00:40:13.020 And all you're doing is keeping them there, those perpetrators.

00:40:15.940 And you're like, but we're going to help them spend money on them.

00:40:19.140 Who are you keeping safe?

00:40:20.420 And that's that's like a common thing up and down tech that I cannot stand where even when somebody is like confirmed to be a harasser or an abuser or, you know, somebody who's abused their power, a lot of times these companies will go out of their way to praise them or give them like lucrative exit packages on the way out the door.

00:40:43.240 And it makes me it like boils my blood. It enrages me. So a former Blizzard technology chief, Ben Kilgore, was fired in 2018 after an investigation into multiple allegations of sexual harassment.

00:40:54.720 But he was thanked, quote, for his many contributions over the last four and a half years in an email by his then boss.

00:41:01.680 And what kind of message is that then? Somebody who is fired for sexual harassment, not like clearly the company was like, OK, these you know, this happened.

00:41:11.500 we have to take action to fire him.

00:41:13.700 Is it really necessary to praise him on the way out?

00:41:16.620 And what kind of signal do you think that is sending

00:41:18.800 to the people that he harassed

00:41:20.300 and the people who have to work there after he leaves?

00:41:23.180 Yeah.

00:41:24.720 Yep.

00:41:25.740 I get some extra money and he did a great job.

00:41:29.660 Just ignore all that other stuff.

00:41:31.460 It's cool.

00:41:32.800 And this was like in the face of,

00:41:36.280 wasn't it 30 employees saying

00:41:39.540 that they had experienced some type of harassment.

00:41:43.100 That's right. 1.00

00:41:43.500 So in 2020, 30 female employees 1.00

00:41:45.560 in their e-sports department 0.91

00:41:47.180 sent an email to the department head

00:41:48.820 saying that they had been subject

00:41:49.760 to unwanted touching, demeaning comments,

00:41:51.680 exclusion from important meetings,

00:41:53.140 and unsolicited remarks about their appearance.

00:41:55.420 And again, Kotick was aware of this email

00:41:59.440 because he was one of the people who got this email.

00:42:01.340 And so him saying publicly,

00:42:04.060 like, I'm not aware of any of these obligations.

00:42:05.940 I've never seen anything like this in my company,

00:42:08.100 blah, blah, blah.

00:42:08.460 It's just a lie. It's a way to save face. And it, to me, makes it seem as though the company is not really invested in or interested in cleaning any of this up.

00:42:18.940 They're interested in making a PR problem go away and interested in making shareholders feel good and feel like the company is in good hands.

00:42:28.220 I don't think they actually care about the fact that their people and their employee are going through this just to do their jobs.

00:42:35.800 Yeah, no, I totally agree. And I feel like a lot of it, to me, gives the vibe of like, really actually wanting to hold on to this culture and the way they've been able to treat women and believing. And so far, very unfortunately, it seems that it's working, but that people will just forget it and move on.

00:42:56.280 that's not to say the employees haven't been really uh especially lately like coming together

00:43:02.220 and speaking out which is amazing and I really appreciate it I know how hard that is um but yeah

00:43:09.120 I've I've felt like their whole thing is at least the higher-ups are like I'd want to continue as

00:43:15.700 is let's just wait for this to blow over it's gonna be fine yeah and you know to your point

00:43:22.100 about it seems like they want to keep this culture you said something earlier that kind of sparked

00:43:27.580 something in my mind which is we know that the most extreme violent gamer dudes out there are

00:43:35.580 like pretty scary and pretty like I guess very into the things that they're into and we've seen

00:43:43.060 before when that when those when folks like that feel like something that they are entitled to is

00:43:49.500 taken away from them I you know there are so many different instances in pop culture when they made

00:43:54.380 a reboot of Ghostbusters with women like they're taking Ghostbusters away from me when Star Wars 0.82

00:43:59.880 casts women and people of color it's like oh this institution that is mine is being taken away from 0.99

00:44:04.660 me part of me wonders if they feel like they don't want to make significant changes to this toxic

00:44:11.420 misogynistic culture precisely because they want their core the people that they're thinking of as

00:44:17.040 their core user base they want them to feel like yeah this toxic soup of culture that we've created

00:44:24.320 here is still yours like like no one is coming to like wokeify your video games at blizzard like

00:44:31.060 we will continue to foster misogyny and extremism and violence that's a guarantee you know what i

00:44:36.760 mean right yeah no i i think there is something to that i think there is some kind of like wink

00:44:43.940 wink thing happening of like uh to their very angry generally white male player base you know

00:44:52.140 we're not gonna give in to these feminists or these social justice warriors like you know we'll

00:44:59.260 say something out loud we'll do like a publicity thing but between us it's gonna be fine we're not

00:45:05.520 gonna mess with anything and we're gonna keep providing you just for you the entertainment 1.00

00:45:11.500 And as long as women are quiet and know their role, then they can come in. 1.00

00:45:16.200 But otherwise, they're not welcome here. 1.00

00:45:18.800 And if they have any problem with it, they can just leave.

00:45:21.000 Oh, exactly.

00:45:21.980 Exactly.

00:45:22.580 Any problem at all.

00:45:23.760 Like, well, then leave.

00:45:24.700 It's fine.

00:45:33.700 Behind every night spent making the kids lunches, there's a lot of suspense.

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00:46:33.280 when i was 14 years old i was kidnapped and held captive for nine months i survived and i've spent

00:46:40.960 my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them i'm elizabeth smart

00:46:47.060 and these are the survivor files i just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying

00:46:54.660 shut up don't say anything every week i'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable

00:47:02.120 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. 0.89

00:47:06.580 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.

00:47:14.200 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:47:18.120 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

00:47:21.560 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:47:24.680 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:47:33.640 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

00:47:39.560 This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

00:47:52.040 I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.

00:47:59.160 I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.

00:48:02.640 From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table.

00:48:08.680 It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse.

00:48:16.160 Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place.

00:48:25.760 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:48:31.700 See you between the pages.

00:48:40.140 Samantha knows. One of my favorite games that came out recently, The Last of Us 2, had featured a woman in the main role.

00:48:46.160 mostly women gamer dudes hated it they hated it and they sent like death threats to all the voice 0.97

00:48:52.820 actors to all the creators so it's not just like it's the player it's impacting the player but it's

00:48:57.380 also impacting like companies and games that are trying to show these other stories and that's just

00:49:05.680 another way of silencing and and keeping it like no it has to look this way and very gate kept and

00:49:12.460 and if so you will receive a death threat like it's just very it's a very toxic space

00:49:20.300 in a lot of ways it makes me so sad that you know companies like activision are so big that they

00:49:28.460 really can like what they do can dictate the rest of the industry and like you said it's a top-down

00:49:33.140 thing and so we're talking to voice talent we're talking designers we're talking women who write

00:49:37.660 about games you're like the the impact that it can have when a major player cultivates this kind

00:49:43.960 of toxicity and misogyny i think really knows no bounds and i'm really heartened to see staffers

00:49:50.220 you know speaking up folks within the company speaking up on november 17th a group of shareholders

00:49:54.960 led by union pension group the soc investment group called for the resignation of activision

00:50:01.300 ceo bobby kotick and the retirement of two other members of the board and the letter was also signed

00:50:06.520 by you know various kind of investment groups which focus on supporting women across industries

00:50:10.640 and um the like rank and file staff themselves are really speaking up trying to get kotick to

00:50:17.400 resign um advocacy group abk workers alliance recently published a document signed by 500

00:50:23.240 employees calling for kotick's removal as ceo um they said we the undersigned no longer have

00:50:28.480 confidence in the leadership of bobby kotick as ceo of activision and they walked out uh in mass

00:50:34.080 to, to protest this. And I know that that is not easy. It's not easy to speak up in a company like

00:50:39.780 this where it's already been documented that retaliation is a thing that happens. And so

00:50:44.400 kudos to these employees who are doing that. But it seems like for right now, unfortunately,

00:50:50.320 the board is sticking with the CEO. You know, they said that they have confidence in him.

00:50:55.280 And I think this is where things get a little bit businessy because at a certain point,

00:50:59.540 you know, you have these investors and shareholders in your company. And it's like,

00:51:03.640 i can understand why this guy's leadership is not inspiring confidence in your investment in this

00:51:09.900 in this company and it's like at like i agree with you that they're thought they're doing some

00:51:15.060 sort of wink wink nod nod thing but i think that they are they should be beholden to their

00:51:19.980 stakeholders and the staff who have to deal with this environment that they're cultivating and it's

00:51:24.660 like i guess i wonder where when does any kind of accountability come in like who are you

00:51:30.020 accountable to and if not now when yeah and I think that was one of the most galling things

00:51:34.380 for the employees but also people who uh were just been watching the situation is that they

00:51:40.080 seem so out of touch with the statements they released after the walkout like they clearly

00:51:45.080 were kind of like not getting the point or purposefully skirting around the point

00:51:49.380 and then like there's a whole I don't have time to go into it right now but there was a woman 0.98

00:51:54.820 who was in charge of, like, the White House communications

00:52:00.060 during Bush and the Iraq War. 1.00

00:52:02.860 She was in charge of the women's gaming board there 1.00

00:52:06.820 of, like, making sure that their voices were heard. 0.87

00:52:09.480 And she was, like, she tweeted something that was called

00:52:12.720 the problem with the whistleblowing while all this was happening.

00:52:18.360 Okay, so you're not really listening to us.

00:52:21.800 Cool, cool.

00:52:22.820 and like we've gone over some names already but they were already like those are not the only

00:52:29.280 names of men at this company that have done really horrible things yeah so it is like like

00:52:38.560 you said it is it feels very overwhelming and it's so frustrating I think we recently did an

00:52:44.180 episode where there's a new survey came out some new research came out and showed that like over

00:52:50.220 the past 10 years, the situation's actually gotten worse, um, in terms of representation

00:52:55.760 in video games. I think this was specifically characters and storylines and stuff, but

00:53:00.740 that's, it just, it does feel like a lot and it feels like we aren't making a lot of progress

00:53:07.440 and I'm happy to see people speaking up about it. I'm glad we're talking about it, but yeah,

00:53:11.640 it's, it's so much work to be done. Absolutely. And I think, you know, it's sad that it doesn't

00:53:19.260 seem like a lot is improving. This month, the Anti-Defamation League released a new study that

00:53:23.460 shows that 62% of young gamers experience abuse or harassment while playing games. Five out of six

00:53:28.580 adults ages 18 to 45 experience harassment in online multiplayer games, representing 80 million

00:53:33.940 adult gamers. Three out of five young people, that's 60%, ages 13 to 17 experience harassment

00:53:39.500 in online multiplayer games. And 71% of adult online multiplayer gamers experience severe abuse,

00:53:45.320 including physical threats, stalking, and sustained harassment. So precisely the kind of thing that

00:53:49.300 you were talking about dealing with when you were playing these kinds of games. And this is again,

00:53:54.140 not surprising, the largest increases in identity-based harassment occurred among adult

00:53:58.440 respondents who identified as women, Black or African-American, and Asian-American. And so

00:54:03.560 it's just bad. It doesn't sound like a safe environment. And I think given that so many

00:54:11.380 young people are having formative experiences in these environments these companies owe it to them

00:54:16.740 to figure out a way to foster safety and actual community in the gameplay experience but also in

00:54:24.120 the in the companies in the boardrooms where these games get made like it all it all to me is kind of

00:54:29.000 one big bucket and I really think like the industry has got to make some very very big changes if

00:54:35.100 anything is going to get better yeah and I would like to add on here because I think sometimes

00:54:40.340 this gets lost in this discussion but you know you hear in the media all the time like video games

00:54:45.980 are bad for your brain or might cause violence it's actually been a lot of studies that show

00:54:50.320 they can help with things like PTSD they can they have positive impacts and I know listeners have

00:54:55.760 written in and said you know for one reason or the other I have social anxiety or whatever the

00:55:01.000 case may be and I really found this online community and it was so important for me and

00:55:05.440 gaming was so important for me and in helping with whatever it is and so like all of this is

00:55:12.900 bad and we should fix it but it also does have like real as I feel like we always make this

00:55:18.860 point and I think it's always important to make but there's real world impacts of these things

00:55:23.060 on your health and on your the communities you can form and even how you feel about yourself

00:55:28.520 um so I do think yeah this is really really important conversation right and I just want

00:55:34.420 to add this because i was looking it up i wanted to see as you were talking about the board is 1.00

00:55:38.420 supporting uh kotick and i'm like so how many women are on the board there's two one just

00:55:43.340 recently of 2020 uh so not surprising but then on top of that a new article saying that their

00:55:48.580 solution instead of having him resign is to do a new committee uh that does a workplace

00:55:54.640 responsibility committee and they're going to watch over the workplace and then talk to the

00:56:00.980 directors who Kotick is a part of he's a director on this board so you're like wait they're not even

00:56:06.100 looking why are they looking so far right when the problem is right in front of them and this

00:56:11.460 is their solution fantastic way to not read the room guys way to not read the room it's the other

00:56:18.460 title for this episode it's so absurd it's like I honestly think like parting ways with their CEO

00:56:26.760 is like the least they can do spending more money and more time and more investment in like creating

00:56:32.820 these kind of bs toothless committees to do nothing i think is just it just shows how how

00:56:39.760 they're not meaningfully interested in like actual change it's just like a band-aid and

00:56:45.120 even a good band-aid at that you know it's literally like hey they have told you what

00:56:50.880 the problem is this is the problem why are you doing non-work to be like oh we don't know

00:56:56.740 what the problem is we're gonna we're gonna put another committee when they're like no it's

00:57:00.500 clear there's a petition they've told you what could help to resolve what yeah don't y'all read

00:57:07.120 the wall street journal because there's a whole thing in here about what what's going on like

00:57:11.160 save your money just buy a paper i mean this is the obvious when you're talking to annie of like

00:57:16.860 oh no okay we're just gonna pretend like we don't understand and then sweep it under the rug then

00:57:21.280 Yes. Oh, yes. I have so many thoughts on this. Oh, my. But we should wrap it up for now.

00:57:33.020 Thank you, as always, Bridget, for coming. Where could the good listeners find you?

00:57:38.040 Thank you for having me. This is always such a treat. If you're interested in more discussions

00:57:42.140 on the Internet technology and how women and people who identify as women show up in those

00:57:47.360 spaces, you can check out my podcast. There are no girls on the internet. We just did a 1.00

00:57:51.260 really interesting couple episodes all about the Astroworld tragedy in Houston. So some truly

00:57:58.300 wild conspiracy theories coming out of there. So we have a really interesting episode with

00:58:03.040 a researcher debunking them. So please check it out. And you can follow me on Twitter at

00:58:07.940 Bridget Marie or on Instagram at Bridget Marie in DC. Yes. And definitely do that if you haven't

00:58:13.360 already listeners and bridget happy weirdo christmas thank you please send us pictures

00:58:19.280 i will a happy weirdo christmas to one and all yes yes thank you for introducing us in this holiday

00:58:25.360 and thank you listeners for listening if you would like to contact us you can or email

00:58:30.420 stuff media mom stuff at iheartmedia.com you can find us on instagram at stuff whenever told you

00:58:34.300 or on twitter at mom stuff podcast thanks as always to our super producer christina thank you

00:58:39.300 and thanks to you for listening stuff whenever told you's production of iheart radio for more

00:58:42.280 podcast from iHeartRadio. Visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

00:58:45.520 your favorite shows. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.

There Are No Girls on the Internet - December 03, 2021

Activision Blizzard's toxic workplace for women： STUFF MOM NEVER TOLD YOU

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