There Are No Girls on the Internet - May 31, 2024


“All Eyes on Rafah” AI image goes viral; Trump is guilty!!; Google says to eat glue – NEWS ROUNDUP

Topics
BetterHelp is everywhere. Can we trust it? - BEST OF TANGOTI Introducing Sixteenth Minute (of Fame)

Episode Stats


Length

54 minutes

Words per minute

173.09

Word count

9,424

Sentence count

438

Harmful content

Misogyny

4

sentences flagged

Toxicity

17

sentences flagged

Hate speech

16

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
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00:00:34.920 If your bookshelf and your For You page
00:00:36.860 are equally important to your personality,
00:00:39.100 welcome home.
00:00:40.700 Pro Society is a weekly podcast
00:00:42.560 that's part book club, part group chat
00:00:44.480 for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice
00:00:46.180 and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.
00:00:48.920 Each week, we're connecting the dots
00:00:50.360 between books, the internet, and pop culture
00:00:52.460 with your favorite writers, book talk creators,
00:00:54.980 and plenty of overthought opinions.
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00:00:59.040 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:09.060 There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.
00:01:17.160 I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.
00:01:19.840 welcome to there are no girls on the internet where we explore the intersection of social
00:01:26.100 media technology and identity and this is another installment of our roundup of news
00:01:30.500 that you might have missed online this week quick heads up i have covid mike has covid
00:01:36.740 we all have covid that's right bridget this episode is brought to listeners by covid
00:01:43.360 we i mean i we've i know you've had it a few times this is my sixth time getting it and when
00:01:50.120 we were talking about it we were like oh like didn't you feel like this strain it was more
00:01:57.120 like body and less like we were talking about it like we were talking about a strain of marijuana
00:02:01.360 like oh it's more of a a body vibe than a head vibe in this in this strain yeah this this strain
00:02:08.740 And yeah, it's a little more body than head, but there's a little head ache, fog stuff going on.
00:02:16.180 My experience has been more mild than previous times.
00:02:21.080 Not to minimize COVID.
00:02:22.980 COVID is terrible.
00:02:24.340 Don't get it.
00:02:25.340 It's a pretty big bummer.
00:02:26.340 Do you want to know what the strain, the new strain that just dropped is called that we probably have?
00:02:32.060 It's got a name?
00:02:33.340 Flirt.
00:02:34.960 Flirt?
00:02:35.740 I know it sounds like I'm making that up, but I swear to you I'm not.
00:02:38.740 It's, like, uppercase F-L-E-R-T.
00:02:42.800 Flirt.
00:02:43.560 It's a flirty strain.
00:02:45.380 Who is branding these things? 0.94
00:02:47.320 What the hell?
00:02:48.280 I don't know. 0.82
00:02:49.060 But it's out there.
00:02:50.020 Y'all, wear your masks.
00:02:51.900 Do what you got to do.
00:02:53.600 But if you're wondering why maybe we both sound a little bit loopy, it's COVID.
00:02:59.560 Yeah.
00:03:00.580 Bridget is right.
00:03:01.460 Wear your masks. 1.00
00:03:03.040 Don't do stupid things like go to a packed concert. 1.00
00:03:06.460 I don't know. 1.00
00:03:06.720 or maybe do if that's what you want to do.
00:03:09.900 Just be ready to experience a lot of regret
00:03:13.260 if you're like somebody that I know.
00:03:16.140 I mean, you're being so clandestine.
00:03:18.360 We got COVID together going to a rave
00:03:22.620 to see Fatboy Slim,
00:03:24.700 who was amazing, by the way,
00:03:27.280 did not, this is how I know we are about that life.
00:03:30.480 Fatboy Slim, there was two openers.
00:03:32.700 He did not go on until two in the morning
00:03:35.160 and he performed until 4 30 in the morning and you were like yeah i'll go i thought for sure
00:03:40.800 because i i was on the fence i was like i don't know packed packed warehouse rave
00:03:47.140 up till five i don't know you know every once every year that sort of thing feels appropriate
00:03:56.040 i don't know i really wanted to see me put on a really good show and just so we're clear i misread
00:04:00.300 the poster or whatever
00:04:02.540 and I thought he started at 10
00:04:04.380 which I was like, oh, a little bit late, but
00:04:06.360 you know, I really want to see this show
00:04:07.780 10 is when the doors open
00:04:10.020 10 was the earliest that you could even get into
00:04:12.240 the facility, he didn't go on until 2
00:04:13.960 and you know what, we stayed
00:04:16.400 up, we danced, we had a good time
00:04:18.340 we did it, don't let anybody say
00:04:20.280 otherwise, we did get COVID
00:04:22.040 that happened
00:04:23.900 but, you know, we did it
00:04:26.600 yeah, pluses and minuses
00:04:28.760 the big plus seeing Fatboy Slim, he really delivered. So we have a little bit of a rule
00:04:34.240 here on the show where we don't talk about Trump unless it's something really big, really major,
00:04:40.180 something that we have to talk about. But I think since we're both sick, let's have a little Trump
00:04:45.120 as a treat. All right. We can have just like a little Trump as a treat. So to introduce this
00:04:50.440 conversation, let's play a little bit of what I think is going to be the song of the summer
00:04:55.600 by Mad McFerrin. So earlier today, Trump was convicted of all 34 charges, three, four,
00:05:17.480 of falsifying business records in the Hush Money case involving Stephanie Clifford,
00:05:21.860 who performs under the stage name Stormy Daniels.
00:05:26.100 What are your thoughts?
00:05:27.440 They're complicated.
00:05:29.320 It's nice to see some justice and they're schadenfreude.
00:05:35.140 It's certainly nice to see the rule of law applied
00:05:41.260 since he clearly did it
00:05:44.440 and didn't even bother to say that he didn't do it.
00:05:47.480 but it's uh it's it's a small comfort it's just really
00:05:52.560 uh like people are still gonna vote for him people are talking about how he's still getting
00:05:58.320 donations this is gonna like cause his donations to go up so it's mixed it's mixed i mean i guess
00:06:06.940 this is better than the alternative of him getting off for clearly doing it we had such
00:06:12.180 different takes on this because i was like scrolling blue sky and threads and being like
00:06:18.160 memes memes memes like celebratory dances celebratory gifs i was like you know if anything
00:06:25.480 i was like man i really miss the days of twitter when news like this would have really like hit
00:06:29.440 different you were like at least the rule of law is still upheld in this country i'm like
00:06:35.220 how many NeNe Leaks Jeefs could I use? 0.75
00:06:40.200 Well, I think you're having a healthier reaction. It sounds like you're at least 0.67
00:06:43.280 getting a little bit of joy out of it. You know, find joy where you can. I will say,
00:06:47.200 so one of my favorite tweets was by Zach Silberberg, who tweeted,
00:06:51.360 so is Trump cooked now? Or is it like Air Bud logic, where it's like,
00:06:54.960 there ain't no rule that says a man with 34 criminal convictions can't be president.
00:06:58.860 And not only do I like that, because famously, if you've seen Air Bud,
00:07:02.700 There's no rule in the rule book that says a dog can't play basketball. But Zach is actually right here. I was like, well, certainly this means that he cannot be elected president. That is not correct. There is no rule, just like there is no rule that says a dog can't play basketball. There is no rule that somebody with this many felony convictions cannot be president.
00:07:22.480 Yeah, he could run for president like a dog. 0.55
00:07:24.940 that's something else about trump is that like he always said things were like a dog and i always 0.95
00:07:32.620 wondered like what does he think about dogs it will be like oh he lost the election like a dog
00:07:37.120 it's like is that what what dogs are known to do yeah in his vocabulary being a dog is one of the
00:07:44.040 worst things like i don't know why he hates dogs so much one of the worst things someone can be
00:07:48.880 is a dog yeah i guess because they're good and kind and loyal and some of them are smart
00:07:54.940 That's why he hates him.
00:07:56.080 So I did see this tweet that made me laugh that was a screenshot of a headline that I
00:08:00.540 assumed was fake that said, if Trump's conviction lands him in prison, the Secret Service goes
00:08:05.720 too.
00:08:06.080 And I thought, haha, that's so funny.
00:08:08.280 Looked it up to confirm, and it's real.
00:08:10.420 From the New York Times, this is true.
00:08:12.900 Side note, everything I've read suggests that he probably will not.
00:08:16.760 C'est la vie.
00:08:17.740 But if he was sentenced to jail time in July during his sentencing, the Secret Service
00:08:22.500 has to go.
00:08:23.580 now that's a movie i would watch uh what would it be titled secret servant time
00:08:30.800 and on the cover it's like trump in the middle with his like hands under his chin and the secret
00:08:38.420 service agent sort of like back to back on either side of him with the sunglasses that's pretty good
00:08:43.480 you came up with that right on the spot listeners we did not plan this it was pure bridget magic
00:08:50.860 right there thank you thank you i'll take that for some reason i'm picturing a sequel where the
00:08:56.600 cover looks kind of like the cover of sister act two somehow like like he gets out and then right
00:09:03.520 as he gets out he gets convicted in the georgia case or something and then he has to go on the run
00:09:08.440 with the secret service wow i i applaud you for really remembering the plot of sister act two
00:09:15.080 because that's kind of what happens it was an important movie
00:09:18.880 Let's take a quick break.
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00:10:15.440 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.
00:10:21.860 This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters,
00:10:28.000 pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.
00:10:34.040 I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.
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00:10:44.200 from best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments
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00:11:05.760 you're in the right place listen to pro society on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever
00:11:12.240 you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. And we're back. So there's no real good transition
00:11:25.460 from Sister Act 2 to what I want to talk about first, but we have to talk about that viral
00:11:31.060 all eyes on Rafa image on Instagram. So like a lot of people, I reposted the all eyes on Rafa
00:11:38.540 AI-generated image on my Instagram story, and I am not alone. According to NBC's Kat Kenbarge,
00:11:45.020 the image calling for people to pay attention to Israel's ongoing war in Gaza has drawn more than
00:11:49.700 44 million shares on Instagram in less than 48 hours, highlighting a renewed social media push
00:11:55.700 by supporters of Palestinians following a deadly Israeli airstrike. So Rafa is a city split between
00:12:02.080 Egypt and the Gaza Strip that serves as the only crossing point between them. So it's an important
00:12:06.780 spot for aid and supplies and food to go into Gaza. So if you haven't seen it, the image is AI
00:12:12.900 generated and it shows tents in a camp arranged to spell out the phrase, all eyes on Rafa. Rafa
00:12:18.900 is a city split between Egypt and the Gaza Strip and serves as the only crossing point between
00:12:23.280 them. So it's an important spot for aid, supplies, and food to go into Gaza. The area is in the
00:12:28.500 southern part of Gaza and it's filled with refugee tent camps where local officials said that at least
00:12:32.760 45 civilians died after an Israeli strike on Sunday. But the image that went viral on Instagram
00:12:38.480 is not a real image of Rafa. It is pretty clearly AI generated. Yeah, it is pretty clearly AI
00:12:45.680 generated. It shows like thousands of tents in a very orderly way that does not match any of the
00:12:55.480 actual photos that we've seen come out of that part of gaza uh but so if if it's pretty clearly
00:13:02.920 ai generated then why didn't it get labeled on instagram great question uh i don't know
00:13:11.120 my best guess is body moderation but honestly at this point your guess is as good as mine
00:13:16.360 meta has really talked up their efforts to label ai generated images although there are like plenty
00:13:22.560 of gaps in those rules. According to the Washington Post, the all eyes on Rafa image
00:13:26.960 appears on Instagram without a label calling it out as AI generated. The company does not appear
00:13:33.080 to have taken any action to remove it. And then when the Washington Post asked Meta why they
00:13:37.280 didn't label it, Meta did not reply. So we don't know. Strange. Okay, so where does the phrase come
00:13:44.580 from? Well, according to Mashable, the slogan all eyes on Rafa has been repeated for months.
00:13:49.500 It was initially coined by Dr. Rick Piepercorn, a World Health Organization director.
00:13:54.860 Piepercorn said this back in February when an Israeli invasion into Rafa was still then
00:13:59.320 just a possibility.
00:14:00.640 It hadn't happened yet.
00:14:01.940 In a press briefing from Rafa, Piepercorn said that this would be a, quote, unfathomable
00:14:06.700 catastrophe, further expanding the humanitarian disaster beyond all imagination.
00:14:11.420 All eyes are on Rafa, declared Piepercorn.
00:14:14.040 We all watch the news and we all get the stories about this possible incursion and
00:14:18.620 military activities are getting closer. This should not happen. There is no place for people
00:14:22.900 to go. This is a desperate plea. Yes, contingency plans are being made, but they would be completely
00:14:27.380 insufficient. According to 404 Media, the image originated with a photographer in Malaysia's
00:14:33.040 Instagram account. The user's own Instagram links to charity fundraising pages for Palestinian aid
00:14:39.060 and has a mix of real images and video and then highly shareable AI-generated images,
00:14:45.260 kind of similar to that all eyes on Ratha image.
00:14:49.120 Why do you suppose it took off on Instagram specifically?
00:14:52.620 So there are a couple of reasons I think this happened on Instagram specifically.
00:14:56.720 Instagram has really emerged as an important platform for amplifying information about
00:15:00.720 Palestine, which is kind of fraught given the way that content about Palestine and
00:15:04.980 news content in general is being moderated on the platform.
00:15:08.760 For instance, earlier this month, Instagram's oversight board was debating whether or not
00:15:13.460 the phrase from the river to the sea violates the platform's rules, including their ban on hate
00:15:18.360 speech. And like just the other day, Adam Mosseri was trying to clarify new rules about how political
00:15:25.040 content would be moderated in general on the platform, which I have to be honest, I don't
00:15:28.880 fully understand what their plan is, what they're trying to say. I don't feel like I have a good
00:15:33.320 read on what they consider political content. But Instagram has really played an important role in
00:15:38.020 amplifying information about what's happening in Palestine right now.
00:15:40.940 Just one more example of how bananas it is that we live in a world where Instagram and Meta get to make these enormous decisions about what kind of content we see related to extremely serious events happening around the world that like really do have an impact on all of us.
00:16:02.120 Like, it feels far away, but there are a lot of ways that, you know, it really impacts us all.
00:16:10.060 So this, you know, there's obviously been a lot of content online about what's happening in Palestine.
00:16:18.720 Why do you suppose that this particular image went so viral?
00:16:22.180 Well, probably one of the biggest reasons is just the ease of posting it.
00:16:25.340 It was posted using Instagram's add yours feature, which like, was that just like one
00:16:30.680 click or really I guess two clicks, you can quickly and easily add an image to your story
00:16:35.640 without even really thinking about it.
00:16:37.460 This is true for me, but like your mileage may vary.
00:16:40.920 I also think there's something about the fact that people were sharing this mostly on their
00:16:44.200 Instagram story as opposed to adding it to their Instagram grid.
00:16:48.120 I think that things can really take off on stories because of the quickness that you
00:16:53.200 can post them. And because they only last for however long, they don't last forever. And so
00:16:58.480 I think that people are more prone to share things on the story because it's just so quick.
00:17:04.300 Makes sense.
00:17:04.980 Also, a lot of critics of the image have pointed out that journalists have died or been hurt
00:17:10.300 to get images about what is actually happening in Gaza online and that it's disrespectful to
00:17:16.920 share an AI-generated image when those real images exist? Or why not use art from an actual
00:17:23.440 human Palestinian artist as opposed to AI-generated art? But I actually suspect that one of the 0.73
00:17:30.060 reasons why the image is AI-generated is specifically to be able to skirt Instagram's
00:17:35.280 moderation policies. I think had they used a real image of what's happening in Rafa,
00:17:40.260 there is no way that that image would be shared by millions of people because it would probably
00:17:43.720 be moderated off of the platform. Wait, that's, did you just say that you think it's possible
00:17:49.360 that had this been a real image, it would have been more heavily moderated, but specifically
00:17:54.740 because it was AI generated, it was able to spread more widely? I think that's exactly right. So NBC
00:18:02.280 reports that while the all eyes on Rafa image has spread quickly, video from Rafa posted by
00:18:07.900 Palestinian journalists has been restricted and in some cases removed from social media for depicting
00:18:12.900 the graphic aftermath of the Israeli strikes. Two of three Instagram posts showing burned and
00:18:17.880 grievously injured and dead bodies after the recent strike were removed, and one had a sensitive
00:18:22.540 content filter for, quote, graphic or violent content placed in front of it. An Instagram
00:18:27.180 spokesperson said that the company removed that content due to its violent and graphic nature,
00:18:31.480 which it said violated the platform's policies. So it does seem to be that these platforms are
00:18:36.260 saying that in some cases, the reality, the actual images and video and content and footage
00:18:42.380 coming from Palestine is deemed too graphic to be shown on these platforms. So I do think that
00:18:49.560 had this been a real image from Rafa, I don't think that millions of people would be able to
00:18:54.260 post it just by the nature of what we already know around the kinds of content coming out of
00:18:58.600 Palestine that Instagram and Facebook and Meta are currently moderating off the platform. 0.95
00:19:04.720 Yeah, boy, that's a really interesting take because I think a more sanitized version is exactly
00:19:09.660 what it is. You know, it looks cold and hopeless and desperate, but there's no people in the image.
00:19:19.860 Like, there's no people in the image, which is just one of many cues that clearly it's AI.
00:19:26.340 Yeah, I mean, it's certainly more sanitized, definitely a more sanitized vision of what's
00:19:31.780 actually happening in Rafa. And I do think that's part of why it went viral. As friend of the show,
00:19:37.300 Ryan Broderick over at the newsletter Garbage Day put it, if you're desperate for a super concise
00:19:41.920 explanation as to how this random Malaysian user ended up creating the post of the moment, 0.56
00:19:46.840 it's because they basically managed to do the impossible. They generated a pro-Palestine 0.92
00:19:51.360 solidarity image, vague and abstract enough to bypass both sensors and filters on one of the
00:19:56.840 biggest remaining social networks that real people still use. So there's been a ton of debate about
00:20:02.020 this image, you know, after it went super viral, like whether or not people should be reposting it.
00:20:06.260 Full disclosure, I reposted it. I remember when I reposted it, my finger hovered over the add
00:20:15.220 yours button. And I thought, should I repost this? Ultimately, I did. I think judging from
00:20:22.460 the photographer who first shared this image, I do think that image was initially shared with
00:20:27.760 good intentions. The person who shared it, they share on their own Instagram, they share a lot
00:20:33.520 of resources and information about Palestine. But as 404 Media points out, even assuming the
00:20:38.860 best intentions for the original poster, the success of that image still led to the creation
00:20:44.420 of hundreds of copycat AI-generated images made by other accounts, basically just trying to get
00:20:50.440 to go viral to the point where when you search all eyes on Rafa on either Facebook or Instagram,
00:20:55.760 the majority of what you get is like AI-generated copycat content. 404 Media,
00:21:01.780 I will put the piece in the show notes. They found that already images sort of created in the style of that AI-generated one have really taken off. And I think it illustrates a truism about the way that AI-generated content strategies on social media move now, how that kind of content works and moves on social media now.
00:21:19.380 A lot of the people posting it are just trying to see what sticks or what hits.
00:21:24.840 They're not posting it because they care about whatever the image purports to show or be about.
00:21:29.920 They're just like, oh, this image purporting to show Ratha hit it?
00:21:34.500 Well, then I'm going to make a million different versions of that and see if any of those stick too.
00:21:38.500 Yeah, it's such a different universe with these cheap, accessible AI tools now.
00:21:44.680 Because you can do that.
00:21:45.420 You can make literally a million and upload them all, and you only need one to go viral, right?
00:21:52.240 It's just like spamming the entire internet.
00:21:55.820 Exactly.
00:21:56.460 It's one of the reasons why Shrimp Jesus AI-generated images have gone viral because one person made an AI image of half shrimp, half Jesus, and that went viral on Facebook.
00:22:08.860 And now there's just like viral shrimp, Jesus, AI generated content all over social media by copycats who were like, oh, well, that one really hit it.
00:22:18.180 Maybe half shrimp, half Jesus is the sweet spot.
00:22:21.300 Let's make a million more.
00:22:22.980 God, it's like every day gets a little bit more clear what it means to live in this new world where anything that anybody creates can immediately and almost for free be recreated like a million times.
00:22:38.020 Yes. So I want to talk about sort of the debate and the ethics of this image. So a whole bunch of folks smarter than me have been weighing in on this image, with some of them criticizing it, basically saying that it's another version of that black square that people posted in 2020 that we actually did one of our first episodes of the podcast about, where people just post this thing on social media and then feel like they've done what they need to do.
00:23:04.660 It's a kind of a self-serving thing where they post it, they feel good, and it's done.
00:23:10.040 I can see that.
00:23:10.840 It feels like you're doing something by posting or reposting.
00:23:17.240 Like you said, you don't even have to create a post.
00:23:20.000 You just hit the add to stories button.
00:23:22.940 An Instagram user with the handle IslamMC said, quote,
00:23:26.680 It gives a space to lazy activism, to people who never actually wanted to talk about the cause or don't want to be controversial.
00:23:33.900 It gives them the space to say, here, you wanted me to talk about it?
00:23:37.100 Here, I posted about it. 0.99
00:23:38.200 Now, shut up. 0.95
00:23:39.240 Honestly, I get that criticism. 0.98
00:23:40.920 And I want to speak carefully here because I also think that we're in this time where
00:23:46.060 people have maybe gotten this message, like there is a risk to speaking up about this
00:23:49.960 issue.
00:23:50.540 So when people are given a way to do so in a way that feels like sanitized or safer and
00:23:56.440 everybody else is doing it, maybe that makes it feel easier or safer to also add their
00:24:02.440 voice.
00:24:03.360 But I think that what some of the people who are criticizing this are saying is that, you
00:24:07.300 know, this image doesn't have any resources.
00:24:10.860 It doesn't have any links to more information.
00:24:13.280 It doesn't have a link to donate.
00:24:15.600 It's not even really Rafa. 0.73
00:24:17.020 It doesn't have any actual Palestinians in it.
00:24:19.200 Why are you posting this?
00:24:20.380 How does this help anybody?
00:24:21.860 Like, what does this do other than make you feel like I'm adding my voice?
00:24:25.560 But then I saw other people saying, well, anything that shows that people are against 0.94
00:24:29.880 what's happening in Palestine is a good thing. 0.83
00:24:31.980 jason okunde the author of the book revolutionary acts love and brotherhood in black gay britain
00:24:38.280 tweeted the ai all eyes on rafa post might feel performative or frustrating but honestly israel
00:24:44.600 palestine is a war of public opinion and consensus if it has become quote trendy to stand against
00:24:50.380 israel's massacre of palestinians then that isn't that good i don't think it could compare to the
00:24:55.300 blm black squares which were weirdly deferential and based on this nebulous aim of quote listening
00:25:01.000 and learning. The premise of this protest against the onslaught on Rafa is that we want the genocide
00:25:06.000 to stop. That is a clear, achievable demand. Israeli politicians know that the war of consensus
00:25:11.320 is key to victory, which is why they have a militarized communication strategy.
00:25:16.020 If a random influencer is sharing a post about Rafa after months of mindlessly posting,
00:25:20.760 this is an opportunity to seize, not to be superior. And I do think that that might be
00:25:25.720 part of the conversation, right? That social media, by definition, is always going to be
00:25:31.320 somewhat performative. And I think that because of this feeling that people are watching to see
00:25:36.720 if you share the right thing the right way, it maybe creates this tension. And because this is
00:25:41.980 all happening in public, because it's social media, I do think it risks overshadowing the
00:25:46.620 real issue. As much as I have really been tuned into some of the meaty and robust debate about
00:25:52.100 this image, I do not want a conversation about the ethics of one AI-generated post to overshadow
00:25:58.880 conversations about what is happening in Palestine. And I guess I do think that we're in this space
00:26:04.720 where people really maybe don't know what to do and feel powerless and feel like we're all
00:26:10.340 witnessing something horrifying, but you're also struggling to find agency of like, well,
00:26:15.400 what can I do? And listen, we can post on social media, we can donate money, we can protest if
00:26:21.120 You're going to protest, use our guides on how to do it safely.
00:26:24.520 We'll put them in the show notes.
00:26:25.940 But I think that that's why you're seeing these online movements that are calling for
00:26:29.940 people to, you know, block Kim Kardashian and solidarity with Palestine that we talked
00:26:35.060 about after the Met Ball.
00:26:36.040 I think people are looking for ways to feel like they have agency.
00:26:40.260 And I can understand not really knowing what action to take and just smashing that share
00:26:45.920 button on Instagram like I did, even while not knowing if it was the right thing to do
00:26:50.300 or not.
00:26:51.120 And I say all of that to say that if you do have extra money and you're thinking, like, what can I do, you could give money to the Palestinian Children's Relief Fund.
00:26:58.880 If you're in D.C., one of my favorite spots in the city, Sun Cinema, shout out to Suns, is donating all bar money to the Palestinian Children's Relief Fund that they take in on Saturday, June 1st.
00:27:09.640 So I certainly wouldn't act like I know the exact right thing to be doing here.
00:27:14.680 But I can tell you, I can share what I am trying to do, which is listening to Palestinian voices, folks who are actually on the ground, amplifying what they put out, really trying to engage with primary sources as much as I can, donating money to organizations like the Palestinian Children's Relief Fund where I can, and doing my best to educate myself and others.
00:27:40.960 More after a quick break.
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00:28:33.280 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. 0.91
00:28:39.140 This is Prose Society.
00:28:41.160 the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters,
00:28:45.660 pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the
00:28:49.960 same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books,
00:28:55.380 the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up
00:28:59.680 this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk
00:29:04.600 creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can
00:29:09.540 hide some real messages inside compelling characters and that is a trojan horse whether
00:29:16.380 you're looking for literary deep dives smart pop culture conversations or a community of readers
00:29:21.520 who love to think a little too much you're in the right place listen to pro society on the
00:29:27.000 iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts see you between the pages
00:29:32.780 Let's get right back into it.
00:29:42.640 And speaking of AI-generated content on social media, new research from Google researchers and several fact-checking organizations have found that the most image-based disinformation online right now is now AI-generated.
00:29:59.420 However, the way that researchers are collecting data might actually be undercounting the problem.
00:30:05.440 Basically, AI-generated image-based disinformation was not really a thing until late 2023, when AI image generators became widely available and popular.
00:30:15.440 But now, they have basically replaced all other forms of image-based disinformation.
00:30:19.940 So these AI generated pictures of Rafa, even while they might have been initially shared for good, it is important to know that that's not happening in a vacuum. And if images like that go mega viral and encourage other people to create copycat AI generated images, we will just be awash in images, most of which are not real, about a conflict that is pretty serious.
00:30:44.940 Yeah, it gets harder and harder to know what really is like true. You know, you even mentioned that the account that shared that photo had a mix of real photos that were, you know, photos that were taken of the world and AI generated images.
00:31:02.640 uh and the blurring of that line is uh scary right like maybe one of the other things that
00:31:10.420 we can do is really try to put forth that effort that's needed to use primary sources like you say
00:31:17.540 and make sure that we do everything we can to have a accurate sense of what is actually happening
00:31:24.400 in the world and not just the narratives that are being promoted absolutely trying to engage as much
00:31:31.940 as I can with primary sources has been really fruitful and you know you can read this you can
00:31:38.320 read the summary I mean I guess you're listening to me summarize stuff for you right now keep doing
00:31:42.660 that but as much as you can we we put the primary sources in the show notes so that you can engage
00:31:48.860 with them you know you should do that yeah oh absolutely you know I'm yeah and I think listeners
00:31:54.960 have a right to expect that and all those other shows that aren't doing it listeners should stop
00:31:59.600 listening to them they should listen to our show are you starting like a podcast is there is there
00:32:04.000 a show in particular that you're thinking of because i'm i'm down for a podcast beef i've
00:32:08.820 been saying it has been too long since i had a good old-fashioned beef so if you are throwing
00:32:13.860 down the gauntlet and we're gonna kick up a beef with another podcast i'm here for it i didn't have
00:32:18.720 anybody in mind uh but you know yeah maybe they should be on notice put your sources in your show 0.90
00:32:24.840 notes we're coming for you pj we didn't forget about what happened at reply all oh shit yeah i 0.61
00:32:31.640 went there yes we've got all these ai generated images uh is that it is that the only dangerous 0.67
00:32:40.820 thing that ai has made cheaply and easily available that is poisoning the minds and
00:32:47.660 lives of a generation is that it that is not the only harm out there on social media god i wish
00:32:53.360 Because we have to talk about this really upsetting report from BBC that is upsetting, but maybe not totally surprising, that found that criminals are producing and selling guides to sextortion on social media.
00:33:06.540 The guides show people how to pose as young women online and trick victims into sending sexually explicit material over, and then they can use that material to financially blackmail them.
00:33:18.180 My God, this is one of the darkest things I think we've talked about on this show in a while.
00:33:23.360 Yeah, and we've talked about how these kinds of sextortion schemes work and how they are mostly being used to target young men and boys, mostly being perpetrated by gangs based in West Africa.
00:33:35.280 However, what is new here is that criminals have added this extra stream of income by creating and selling these guides to help other people do this as well.
00:33:44.820 That it's becoming a marketplace where it's like, oh, you too can give me money and I can show you how to make money by preying on youth.
00:33:51.800 So this is pretty serious. Kids are dying because of it. In the UK, two British teenagers are known to have died by suicide since October 2022 after becoming victims of sextortion schemes.
00:34:04.880 Yeah, and even that underestimates the real scope of the problem because a lot of people who are targeted in these schemes don't die but are still severely harmed by it.
00:34:15.580 Yeah. Paul Raffle, an intelligence professional and expert on sextortion, says that this whole
00:34:20.580 thing is a massive threat to children. Paul says, internet scammers over these past two years have
00:34:26.040 found out that they can get very rich very quickly by scamming an untapped market, and that's
00:34:30.940 teenagers. He also says that big tech companies are not doing nearly enough to stop extortion,
00:34:36.340 surprise, surprise, saying this crime has really exploded on Instagram and Snapchat over the past
00:34:41.060 two years. These platforms need to aggressively go after these criminals. Now, Snapchat did tell
00:34:46.700 BBC, we've been ramping up our efforts to combat it, including a reporting option specifically for
00:34:51.600 threats to leak sexual content and in-app education for teens. In a statement, Meta, which owns
00:34:56.800 Instagram, said it offered, quote, a dedicated reporting option so people can report anyone
00:35:01.680 threatening to share private images. We default teens under 18 in the UK into private Instagram
00:35:07.200 accounts at signup, which hides their follower and following list into stricter default messaging,
00:35:12.360 Facebook said. And, you know, I guess I agree that they're just like not doing enough. We already
00:35:19.580 know from like multiple episodes that Instagram really is aware of the way that their product is
00:35:25.340 being used to harm and target youth in sexualized ways. And like, they really just like aren't doing
00:35:31.540 enough. I will agree that like not enough is being done. And I think this is really heartbreaking
00:35:36.540 because creeps are preying on the shame and silence and secrecy that a young person would
00:35:42.220 feel getting mixed up in this. Like if you're a young person who has gotten caught up in a
00:35:45.600 sextortion ring, it's got to be isolating and tough to talk about with the adults in your life.
00:35:51.340 And I think that people who are doing this, they know this and they are using that dynamic to prey
00:35:56.240 on kids. Meanwhile, platforms aren't doing enough to stop them. I do have another kind of dark
00:36:03.260 internet thing to discuss, which is whether or not parents whose children die by suicide
00:36:09.400 have a right to examine those kids' social media footprints. So over in the UK, Ellen Room,
00:36:16.400 the mother of a child who died by suicide, has gathered more than 100,000 signatures on a
00:36:20.780 petition calling for social media companies to be required to hand over data to parents
00:36:25.320 after a child has died. Under the current law, parents have no legal right to see whether their
00:36:30.320 child was being bullied or threatened, was looking at self-harm images or other harmful
00:36:34.720 content, or expressed suicidal feelings online, or searched online to help with mental health
00:36:40.740 problems.
00:36:42.160 Room says this is wrong, that her son left no indications of his motivation before he
00:36:46.780 died, the last time she saw him he seemed happy and well-adjusted, and that now she
00:36:51.180 just has no idea what happened.
00:36:52.880 She says, it's really awful.
00:36:54.200 If a child died of an illness, you'd do a post-mortem and work out what was wrong.
00:36:57.860 it's not going to bring my son back and I'm not going to stop grieving, but maybe just to
00:37:01.640 understand what happened in those last few hours, she said. Because an hour and a half before he
00:37:05.860 left the house and there's video of him saying goodbye to his friend, he was fine. So what
00:37:10.160 changed or what was going through his mind? Any social media may give me the answers.
00:37:15.100 Because her petition got more than 100,000 signatures, there is likely to be a debate
00:37:19.420 in parliament on this issue. She was part of a group of parents that met with both the government
00:37:23.520 and Ofcom, which is the UK's communications regulator that regulates social media, radio,
00:37:29.300 TV, and other sectors. The group included people like a man whose daughter died by suicide after
00:37:34.960 viewing harmful content online and the parents of another child who died after possibly taking part
00:37:40.420 in a social media challenge. As part of the Online Safety Act, which went into effect on
00:37:45.240 April 1st of this year, coroners are now granted new powers that give them access to social media
00:37:51.160 and online gaming data when investigating a child's potential suicide.
00:37:55.580 However, even under that new Online Safety Act,
00:37:59.340 parents are still not entitled to access the data themselves.
00:38:02.620 And the ruling only applies to children who died by suicide,
00:38:06.100 not those, for example, who were maybe murdered by somebody that they met online.
00:38:09.960 It's a tough one because, you know,
00:38:14.660 obviously you have to sympathize with these parents
00:38:19.960 who have suffered a terrible loss
00:38:21.640 and have a right to want to know
00:38:24.740 what happened with the kid's life.
00:38:26.860 But, you know, it does also
00:38:30.400 open up a whole bunch of cans of worms,
00:38:34.740 I think, of making kids'
00:38:40.480 social media posts available.
00:38:44.680 You know, like,
00:38:45.620 where does the the light of privacy for for kids get drawn it's uh it's a tough one but
00:38:55.160 yeah this is why i wanted to include it because i really cannot imagine the grief
00:39:02.520 of losing a child in this way and i then can't imagine the added grief of not knowing
00:39:09.020 like if something impacted them in their last moments and just not having insight into that
00:39:15.380 But I also don't know enough about, yeah, the privacy ramifications of giving parents that kind of access. And so I think it's a conversation that really illustrates the complexity of where we're at when it comes to social media right now.
00:39:31.920 And kind of like what you were saying with the Palestine story, how much platforms are holding, how much weight their decisions and their policies have, how they impact youth and the mental health of youth.
00:39:47.340 Like, that is a lot of power that we're giving people like Mark Zuckerberg and Adam Mosseri and Elon Musk.
00:39:53.640 Yeah, that's a great point, you know, and it's these are tough, complicated issues.
00:40:00.460 and historically politicians have just not dealt with them at all and left it to the Zuckerbergs
00:40:09.260 of the world to figure out how much they can get away with before it starts cutting into their
00:40:14.320 bottom line. I guess it's good to see it being debated in you know in a regulatory context like
00:40:22.800 this bridget we've got covid we're tired and it hurts we have covered some pretty difficult
00:40:32.440 stories today like i don't know if this is just how you deal with being sick or maybe this is
00:40:38.160 it's just been a rough week do we have anything lighter that we can end this episode on can i
00:40:45.040 offer you some pizza made with glue michael yes please i love pizza so you and i i should people
00:40:54.160 might hear some tension when we're discussing this because we feel differently about this next story
00:40:58.380 right we do we talked about this ahead of time uh listeners might be interested to know that
00:41:03.980 during the week we keep like a running list like a google doc where we're just adding uh ideas of
00:41:10.720 stories that we might want to cover uh i try to add a bunch of stories and then before the we
00:41:17.520 record the episode bridget goes through deletes all of my stories add some new ones that's not
00:41:23.480 true i would say like i you i think you've got like a solid like 50 50 and also it's because
00:41:32.640 if you were in charge it would be such specific stories about hard tech that everybody will be
00:41:39.080 like what are they talking about but i'm still it's like 50 50 half stories that you pick half
00:41:44.780 stories that i pick i don't i don't delete your stories not unless they're really bad and like 0.82
00:41:50.320 stupid and i don't want to talk about them so yeah you know what i do i do delete your stories 0.87
00:41:54.260 sometimes and that's good this is your show it's and thank goodness it is because you're so much 0.99
00:42:00.360 better at this than me i'm just i'm pleased some of them make it through the filter that's not the
00:42:03.980 point here the point is i put this story on the list thinking that it was going to go one way and
00:42:08.780 And then I looked through the notes that you wrote, and I was like, oh, Bridget, like, really likes this, which is surprising to me because I had a different reaction.
00:42:18.620 Okay, why don't you tell people what we're talking about?
00:42:20.500 Because they're like, I don't even know the story.
00:42:22.180 What are y'all talking about?
00:42:22.780 Maybe they do know the story, but why don't you fill us in?
00:42:26.040 The pizza glue story.
00:42:27.200 So, you know, people probably or maybe know, I think it was last week Google rolled out their new AI summary feature at the top of search.
00:42:38.060 So when you search, instead of, well, you still get your list of 10 links buried behind a bunch of sponsored nonsense, but at the very top of your results, you're going to get an AI summary generated by Google's AI bot Gemini that attempts to answer the question that you Googled for.
00:42:59.800 And then you can scroll past it to go look at the links. But there, I think we maybe talked about this a little while ago that there's a lot of concern that this is going to really just fundamentally change search because you type in a question to Google, you hit enter and boom, there's an answer right at the top of the page.
00:43:19.880 So why would you look beyond that to go to those primary sources that we were just talking about a couple of minutes ago?
00:43:26.840 And they rolled out this product and the Internet, or at least my little corner of it, has just been flooded with screenshots of Google's AI summary getting it wrong.
00:43:42.240 because they scraped a lot of reddit posts to teach the model like what the world is so it can
00:43:50.000 have information to spit back to us it really highly ranks uh the what people wrote on reddit
00:43:55.700 but reddit a lot of redditors use humor and sarcasm that's the thing that exists on reddit
00:44:03.560 and so like this one screenshot that was going around was about how to make a pizza and it had
00:44:13.280 a line that was something like you know if you want a a thicker sauce you could add a little
00:44:19.840 bit of glue so i gotta stop because verge collected some of the best incorrect answers
00:44:26.780 that google now provides to questions google claims that former u.s president james madison
00:44:32.540 graduated from the University of Wisconsin, not once, but 21 times, that a dog has played in the
00:44:38.700 NBA, NFL, and NHL. Shout out to Air Bud. There's no rule. There's no rule. How many times are we
00:44:45.900 going to talk about basketball playing dogs in this episode? Listen, I have COVID. Let me have
00:44:52.380 this. There's no rule that says a dog can't play in the NHL. Also, my personal favorite that,
00:44:59.160 But according to geologists at UC Berkeley, you should eat at least one small rock per day.
00:45:05.700 It's like we're all chickens.
00:45:09.420 Chickens eat rocks?
00:45:10.700 Yeah, chickens eat rocks. 1.00
00:45:12.040 That little gizzard thing that hangs down from their throat, they got little rocks in there to help grind up their food.
00:45:17.600 Oh, Lord.
00:45:18.420 In case listeners don't know, Mike grew up on a farm.
00:45:21.240 Is this your type five about growing up on a farm?
00:45:23.520 No, it's just a joke about eating one small rock per day.
00:45:27.920 Like, if you were a chicken, that might not be enough.
00:45:32.320 So even for chickens who are using Google, they're like, I don't know if these responses are on the money.
00:45:38.840 It should be more than one small rock.
00:45:41.280 Yeah, and that just illustrates the perils of trying to design a product for everybody.
00:45:45.820 You know, you're just not going to please anybody, humans or chickens.
00:45:48.640 Okay, so when you asked Google how to get your cheese to stick better to the crust when you're making pizza, Google said to add glue.
00:45:55.500 The reason why you put it on the agenda to talk about last week, which we didn't talk about, was that a tech journalist actually tried this recipe.
00:46:04.360 Business Insider's Katie Danopoulos said, I knew my assignment.
00:46:09.320 I had to make the Google Glue pizza.
00:46:12.420 Don't try this at home.
00:46:14.060 I risked myself for the sake of the story, but you shouldn't.
00:46:17.080 So you put this on the agenda.
00:46:19.600 you come to look at the outline that i've come up with to make to like do the fact check blah blah
00:46:25.620 you're like oh i see your position on the glueing is uh you're a pro i was like yeah she's eating 0.94
00:46:33.860 glue awesome but what did what were your thoughts my thoughts were like what a ridiculous little 0.95
00:46:40.700 stunt like it's just silly like you're not supposed to eat glue the reason that those
00:46:45.720 screenshots are funny is because it says to eat glue but everybody knows you're not supposed to 1.00
00:46:50.800 well mike if you read the primary source you would know that katie actually has a history of eating
00:46:57.060 glue she says yes since i know you're wondering i did eat paste as a kid i loved it so this is not
00:47:03.660 this is like not a stunt this is like her returning to form that does nothing for me though because
00:47:09.000 it's not like she's continuing to eat glue today she's just like a glue eater it's like i i did
00:47:16.900 read the story i clicked into her bio she's a real journalist who writes like real she's a real
00:47:22.540 journalist and i like her and i if she wants to come on the show and talk about the glue
00:47:26.800 i would love to you won't be a part of that episode mike since you have such an attitude
00:47:30.700 about it but katie if you're listening i like that you ate the glue i'm not gonna shame you
00:47:35.720 for eating the glue come on the podcast and talk about it mike won't be on and we'll just talk
00:47:40.000 about the glue but like really why did she eat the glue because google told her to google tells
00:47:47.140 us to do so many things that we don't have to do them we're humans we have agency for a little bit
00:47:51.860 yet she was proving a point that about search that search has gotten so bad that the examples
00:47:58.680 that they're giving like it'd be it'd be foolish for somebody to do it so she did it but to what
00:48:05.720 end right like she was the internet was full of memes about how bad google search was uh or at
00:48:13.180 least you know the ai summary it wasn't like she was adding on or adding to understanding of
00:48:19.980 how this new thing is going to change search she was just trying to get some clicks listen
00:48:24.160 i think she took it to the next level and honestly when she accepts her pulitzer where are you going
00:48:30.120 to be i'll tell you where i'm going to be not eating glue and pizza that's what also she didn't
00:48:34.960 just eat glue she mixed glue into pizza sauce and then made a homemade pizza and i guess because
00:48:41.840 she was using like a jarred pizza sauce she said for anybody who feels compelled to point out that
00:48:46.820 i shouldn't have used jarred sauce or pre-shredded cheese please keep in mind i'm eating glue here 0.85
00:48:51.840 how do you not love that i guess it's kind of funny it's like it's somewhere between jackass
00:49:00.720 and that video of 0.91
00:49:05.520 did you ever see the video of some local journalist
00:49:09.180 who went down to the police station to test out a taser
00:49:12.180 and he was going to like show how tasers work
00:49:15.120 and he had them tase him
00:49:16.320 he like falls over
00:49:18.580 I have seen it
00:49:20.260 because it looks like it really hurts
00:49:22.720 and I have to
00:49:24.060 like I feel like eating glue
00:49:26.400 glue for the story is kind of like getting tased for the story.
00:49:32.920 So I guess you don't want any of this glue pizza that I've made.
00:49:36.740 No, I don't. I love pizza. I'll eat anything on it, but not glue. Glue's not food. Glue is not
00:49:43.380 food, Bridget. It's a bold stance, but I guess it's a great one to end on. Hey, real quick before
00:49:49.640 you go, this is Future Bridget, and I have a little bit of breaking news glue vindication for
00:49:54.960 you because the day after Mike and I recorded this episode, Google announced they'd be taking
00:49:59.520 steps to limit the use of joke replies and user-generated responses from places like Reddit
00:50:04.620 in the AI overview summaries now appearing in search. Katie Nonopoulos, who ate the glue, 0.91
00:50:10.880 had a bit of a victory lap about it in a new piece for Business Insider called 0.56
00:50:14.580 Sometimes to Save the Internet, You Must Eat Glue. Katie writes,
00:50:19.080 There was a whole lot of attention paid in the past week about how bad many of these AI-generated
00:50:24.060 search results were, particularly because they were wacky and funny. Was Google's response to
00:50:29.080 tamp down its big AI search ambitions just because of a few jokesters on X made silly queries? Maybe.
00:50:35.960 Could it be because Google took the feedback seriously and realized that there were use
00:50:39.760 cases they had not expected and they needed to retool based on this new information? Maybe.
00:50:45.320 Could it be a combination of those two things that a small minority of trolls abusing the system for
00:50:50.040 laughs revealed some serious flaws and dangers of putting AI in search results? That it wasn't
00:50:54.720 just a PR disaster for a week, but made Google seriously rethink the safety of the AI overview's
00:51:00.100 product and what it would actually be used for? Most likely. But, Katie writes, let's not overlook
00:51:06.640 one crucial factor here. Me, I actually ate the glue pizza. It did not taste good, and please do
00:51:12.940 not do this at home. The fact that Google rolled this out with such easily exploitable flaws,
00:51:17.380 that was bad, but fixing it, that's good. And I like to convince myself that my eating glue pizza
00:51:23.340 was part of the noise that prompted Google to act. Please, please, I don't need your thanks.
00:51:28.240 I'm just doing my job. As they say, not all heroes wear capes. Some just eat glue. Katie,
00:51:34.240 I agree. You are the hero the internet needs. Mike, thank you for being here. Even though your
00:51:42.280 opinion about Katie eating glue is bad, we still like to have you around. Thanks so much. And
00:51:47.280 Thanks to all of you for listening.
00:51:48.740 Thanks for having me, Bridget.
00:51:50.060 And I hope you feel better soon.
00:51:52.520 You too.
00:51:52.920 I feel like our COVID-ness, people are listening.
00:51:58.660 I'm sorry.
00:51:59.340 That's all I can say.
00:52:00.860 This was a silly one, I think.
00:52:06.120 If you're looking for ways to support the show,
00:52:08.320 check out our merch store at tangoti.com slash store.
00:52:12.080 Got a story about an interesting thing in tech
00:52:14.120 or just want to say hi?
00:52:15.580 You can reach us at hello at tangody.com.
00:52:17.940 You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangody.com.
00:52:21.280 There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by me, Bridget Todd.
00:52:23.980 It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative, edited by Joey Pat.
00:52:28.460 Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer.
00:52:30.700 Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer.
00:52:33.320 Michael Amato is our contributing producer.
00:52:35.320 I'm your host, Bridget Todd.
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00:52:51.180 If your bookshelf and your For You page
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00:52:55.680 welcome home.
00:52:57.260 Pro Society is a weekly podcast
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00:53:21.640 I survived nine months in captivity,
00:53:24.860 and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive
00:53:28.260 what should have destroyed them.
00:53:30.280 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.
00:53:33.960 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable,
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00:53:55.060 Hey, this is Hayes Davenport.
00:53:56.960 And Sean Clemens.
00:53:58.160 We host the podcast Hollywood Handbook.
00:54:00.340 Every episode, we're trying to help our guests improve their careers
00:54:02.720 by mainly focusing on how they can help us improve our careers.
00:54:05.960 The show is famously super accessible,
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00:54:12.380 We recommend some of our recent episodes
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