There Are No Girls on the Internet - July 08, 2025


Candace Owens Wants You to Think She’s Changed. She Hasn’t.

Topics
Princess Treatment is Going Viral on TikTok, But at What Cost!? (A rant) Joe Rogan has Trump Regrets; Linda Yaccarino says bye Elon; Jeff Bezos Eyes Vogue?; NYT Helps Smear Mamdani – NEWS ROUNDUP!

Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 9 minutes

Words per minute

174.1

Word count

12,061

Sentence count

481

Harmful content

Misogyny

72

sentences flagged

Toxicity

25

sentences flagged

Hate speech

27

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
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00:01:51.280 we need to talk about candace owens because and i can't believe i'm saying this 0.99
00:01:58.280 is she kind of making a little bit of sense now so last week on her podcast candace called out
00:02:04.420 president donald trump she criticized trump's attacks on harvard university saying i never
00:02:09.540 thought i'd see the day where i'd be rooting for a university over donald j trump and his
00:02:13.640 administration but i don't recognize this administration right now i don't recognize
00:02:18.580 what's happening. So at face value, it sounds like she's kind of defending free speech. And yeah,
00:02:25.460 you might be wondering, am I actually agreeing with Candace Owens a little bit? But hold up,
00:02:30.940 don't get too comfortable, because this is not a change of heart for Candace Owens. 0.99
00:02:35.020 It's a strategy. Candace Owens, I think, is rebranding. And like always, she's using things 0.69
00:02:41.260 like outrage and celebrity scandal to do it. In this episode, I dive into how Candace Owens is 1.00
00:02:47.000 leveraging lawsuits like the one involving Blake Lively and Justin Boldani. In the fallout of the 1.00
00:02:52.020 film, it starts with us to package her politics for a softer, maybe less familiar audience.
00:02:58.380 It's the same noxious content, just with a new coat of paint. I broke down her playbook to my
00:03:03.740 friends, Samantha and Andy, over at the podcast Stuff Mom Never Told You.
00:03:07.120 we're talking about the one the only candace owens speaking of villains
00:03:16.720 so like i should say up top like i am weirdly fascinated with her what do you all have thoughts
00:03:25.200 is she somebody who on who is on your radar what is your experience what are your experiences
00:03:29.340 with candace owens or do you have any uh mine are negative mine are mostly
00:03:36.840 negative but uh i uh most of most stuff i know is more recent uh and i didn't know a lot of what
00:03:47.380 i know we're going to talk about in here but i will say generally she's someone i'm very wary of
00:03:53.220 uh and i have a lot of negative associations with i will say um yes i i do know of her of course
00:04:01.100 one of the things that I immediately put me on high alert is that she is one person that my
00:04:07.800 racist Trump supporting backwards brother has used as a token in saying, see, we love Black people. 0.90
00:04:16.500 Oh, that is like that. That has probably been the experience of so many folks listening. And 0.97
00:04:22.160 I guess what I want to talk about today might actually answer why that is, because she is
00:04:27.220 someone that people in my life have, like, cited or mentioned or like, oh, I saw Candace Owens
00:04:33.380 talking about this. And I'm like, what? Like, why are you watching Candace Owens? Why are you
00:04:36.680 listening to her podcast? So, like, I am, like, weirdly fascinated by her. She is somebody who
00:04:43.060 has a legitimately fascinating story. And, like, from where she started to where she wound up,
00:04:50.280 I just find deeply interesting. I don't want to focus too much on her, like, personal background,
00:04:55.740 But there are some pieces of her early story that I do think are important context for like understanding who she is and sort of the role she has gone on to occupy in the world.
00:05:06.380 So Owens grew up in Stamford, Connecticut. And while she was a high school student there, she was like racially harassed in a pretty gnarly way.
00:05:15.100 A classmate left her a racist death threat on her voicemail that ended up turning into like a pretty serious local scandal because it turned out the person, her classmate that left that voicemail did so in a group of students that included the son of the then mayor and future Democratic governor of Connecticut, Daniel Molloy.
00:05:34.600 So it got, it was really, really blown up into like a little bit of a scandal.
00:05:39.060 Candace got lots of support from the local chapter of racial justice organizations like
00:05:43.540 the NAACP, and her family ended up suing the Stanford Board of Education in federal court
00:05:48.040 for failing to protect her rights, which resulted in a $37,500 settlement.
00:05:53.980 After that, she goes on to study journalism at University of Rhode Island before dropping
00:05:57.940 out.
00:05:58.400 So this is really the part of her story where, I have to be honest, I see some
00:06:04.380 parallels between me and her. You know, we're both Black women who were sort of early adopters
00:06:10.640 of the internet to talk about things like race and culture and politics. Like me, for her,
00:06:15.900 that seems to have manifested in a lot of, like, low-hanging fruit posts about, you know, 0.99
00:06:23.660 politics, like dumb jokes. Like, you know, the early days of blogging about politics online,
00:06:29.360 It really was dumb jokes was like and like stupid memes were the lifeblood of that. 0.98
00:06:36.940 And so in 2015, she was writing blogs, making fun of Trump's penis size to give you a sense of the kind of thing that she was writing about, which honestly is something I would I wasn't doing that, but I could see myself doing it. 0.99
00:06:49.400 Right. I would definitely chuckle. 0.97
00:06:50.860 Yeah.
00:06:51.360 If I saw it. 0.98
00:06:52.020 So some people might be surprised to know that Candace actually started her career as like a public intellectual or a public opinion haver or commentator or whatever you want to call it, as a leftist, like a progressive.
00:07:06.440 In 2015, she was writing this blog called Degree 180, where she wrote pieces criticizing conservative Republicans, writing about, quote, the batshit crazy antics of the Republican Tea Party.
00:07:19.180 Something that she wrote in her blog was, quote,
00:07:21.900 the good news is they will eventually die off peacefully in their sleep, we hope,
00:07:25.860 and then we can get right on with the obvious social change that needs to happen immediately.
00:07:31.000 So you really get a sense of her as someone who was this, like,
00:07:33.960 young Obama-era progressive using the early internet blogging and things like that
00:07:40.140 to really put her voice and her perspective into the world.
00:07:43.300 Again, something that, like, frankly, I can really see myself in.
00:07:46.880 This is surprising.
00:07:48.580 It is.
00:07:50.200 I guess I didn't know her origins.
00:07:52.240 I just knew when she came out swinging on the opposite end.
00:07:56.520 Yeah.
00:07:57.020 Well, what's interesting about that, and I can definitely speak from my own experience here,
00:08:01.320 is that I connected with a lot of her early writing when she was still sort of like writing about the Tea Party and blah, blah, blah.
00:08:10.020 But certainly nobody knew.
00:08:12.420 Like, she wasn't like a known voice or a known name, right?
00:08:15.500 And I do think it speaks to the fact that, like, when she switched up her ideology and her perspective and what she was talking about, she got so much more attention.
00:08:25.860 Like, as a Black woman leftist who talks about, you know, lefty stuff on the Internet, we're a dime a dozen.
00:08:33.320 Nobody is really paying that much attention.
00:08:34.980 But when you do the switch up, you really become a much bigger name and you get a lot more attention and a lot more engagement.
00:08:41.140 And I think it's a lot more lucrative to be a black woman right winger than it is to be a black woman leftist.
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00:10:38.380 When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.
00:10:44.300 I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.
00:10:50.680 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.
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00:11:43.780 I was actually reading about this recently.
00:11:46.840 is the shadow of Gamergate
00:11:49.620 when it comes to the internet
00:11:53.280 and how it looks today
00:11:55.480 and how it's still,
00:11:58.120 like the impacts,
00:11:59.920 just the fallout of it is still here.
00:12:03.560 And that was a part of Candace Owen's story.
00:12:08.900 Oh, yes.
00:12:09.620 So I am like you, Annie.
00:12:11.800 Gamergate and everything surrounding it
00:12:13.780 is my Roman empire.
00:12:15.160 It is the thing that keeps me up
00:12:16.660 I did a whole series with Cool Zone Media about how Gamergate and just general harassment against women and women of color and minoritized people, you could draw a direct line from that to like our political and social climate today.
00:12:32.720 Like this is the stuff that I am like making a string board about and being like, and then this happened and then that happened and then 10 years later this happened.
00:12:38.700 And like, this is my white whale.
00:12:40.920 And Candace Owens was really like, this was a, Gamergate was really sort of like, well,
00:12:47.300 she describes it as like a radicalizing moment for her.
00:12:49.860 So in 2016, when Gamergate was in full swing, Owens launched a Kickstarter for a project
00:12:55.680 she called Social Autopsy, which she described as a way to catalog the abuses of trolls and
00:13:00.960 cyber bullies online.
00:13:02.240 The Kickstarter for this project is still up today.
00:13:05.640 Here's a little taste of Owens describing it in her own words.
00:13:09.780 It takes a nanosecond, a mere push of a button to share our ideas,
00:13:14.740 opinions, and emotions across the world instantly.
00:13:18.740 But for every cat meme your best friend tweets at you,
00:13:21.980 or for every I miss you comment your grandma leaves on your Facebook wall,
00:13:25.660 there are literally thousands of instances of hate speech being circulated online.
00:13:31.060 Because when communication happens through a screen,
00:13:33.440 And when moments are experienced through a lens, a terrifying extraction takes place.
00:13:39.100 The age of technology and social media has slowly disintegrated individual accountability,
00:13:45.080 the consequences of which are devastating.
00:13:48.620 So that should give you a little bit of an idea of what I mean.
00:13:52.080 It's interesting because it really feels like a time capsule from a different time.
00:13:57.240 You know, like hearing Candace Owens talk about how bad things like hate speech are
00:14:01.720 and how it's dividing us is, like, just very interesting.
00:14:05.620 Yeah.
00:14:08.160 Throw off.
00:14:09.280 Like, I'm like, wait, what?
00:14:11.600 Same person?
00:14:12.280 Okay.
00:14:13.680 Nope.
00:14:15.560 So the plan for social autopsy was basically,
00:14:18.860 it was a project meant to, like, de-anonymize online commentators
00:14:22.620 and then connect them with their real-life names
00:14:25.320 and then real-life employers.
00:14:26.960 And it's funny because this is still an argument that people make
00:14:30.080 when they want to restrict the internet today that like all the problems that happen on the
00:14:34.320 internet from harassment to child exploitation material all of that could all be solved if you
00:14:40.120 needed like your government id to access the internet and so it's funny how these ideas there
00:14:45.320 are people pushing that concept today and even i mean like some people who are well-meaning but in
00:14:51.200 my opinion incorrect are still pushing that idea and so it's funny how some of these ideas never
00:14:56.100 really die they're just recycled like candace owens was talking about this in 2016 and here
00:15:00.460 we are in 2025 still talking about it yes yes we are but oh my goodness speaking of things we're
00:15:12.840 still talking about another thing we've talked about a lot on this show another thing i've been
00:15:18.280 thinking about a lot lately is the radicalization that can happen online and candace owens kind of
00:15:27.400 talks about this this is sort of her experience with gamergate so when she exactly that so when
00:15:34.960 she came out with social autopsy pretty much everybody hated it right like it was like a
00:15:38.820 universal digital boo or like thumbs down and one of the people who was like really not into this
00:15:45.240 idea was Zoe Quinn, whose name you might know if you know about Gamergate, because she was someone
00:15:49.220 who was pretty viciously attacked in Gamergate. So after all of the backlash from this project
00:15:57.080 that Candace tried to put out into the world via Kickstarter, she herself was doxed and harassed. 1.00
00:16:03.440 And Candace actually blamed Zoe Quinn and other feminists for this harassment and started saying 1.00
00:16:08.880 so publicly. You can probably guess who loved this and like seized on it. That's right. People 1.00
00:16:15.080 like Milo Yiannopoulos, people who were promoters of Gamergate and like doing the harassment of 1.00
00:16:19.900 Gamergate, really hyped up Owens' claims that, yeah, it's the feminists who are the ones who 0.90
00:16:25.280 are doing the actual online harassment, not, you know, these gamer bros and like right wingers. 1.00
00:16:31.480 It's actually feminists who are the bad guys here. And this event, Owens credits with her turn from 1.00
00:16:37.160 progressive to being what she calls a red-pilled radical. She says, quote, I became a conservative
00:16:43.600 overnight, I realized that liberals were actually the racists. 0.99
00:16:47.740 Liberals were actually the trolls. 0.59
00:16:49.600 And so Annie, you're exactly right that like she describes this as like an overnight turning
00:16:55.640 point of her going from being a progressive who was collaborating with the NAACP and writing
00:17:01.380 about how awful Republicans and Trump and the Tea Party Republicans were to like overnight
00:17:08.060 waking up and being like, no, it is liberals who are the real enemy.
00:17:11.940 I have so many thoughts because I don't I was not a part of the Gamergate world like I did not
00:17:19.480 understand what was happening out there in the internets because I was case managing and like
00:17:24.820 like groveling in my own like oh everything's worse but like her being docs and all this 0.93
00:17:31.960 because I'm sure just as many like people who were feminists and who were victims of Gamergate 0.94
00:17:39.820 and such there were more probably jerks out there who were like no we were definitely against this 1.00
00:17:45.360 idea and harassing her because they don't want their name out there which is what she was trying 0.98
00:17:51.020 to do right so but she just picked a group like no it's definitely after she got so much support
00:17:56.200 totally so my understanding is that like and and if folks listening are like i was there i remember
00:18:03.300 As far as I know, this was, like, feminists having good faith disagreement with Candace's project. And then Candace, probably pumped up by some of these, like, right-wing bro gamer guys who were behind a lot of this harassment. And, like, we have all the receipts for that. Probably pumped up by some of them. Just, like, assumed that these feminists were the ones behind it. 0.99
00:18:26.620 So like, as far as I know, she, this was not a documented thing, but, you know, certainly 0.91
00:18:33.540 like I, like I was, I was like pretty in the mix on the internet in these days. 0.97
00:18:37.680 Certainly this feud between Candace Owens and feminists like Zoe Quinn about Gamergate 0.63
00:18:43.620 was something that like got her name into the conversation in a way that I don't think 1.00
00:18:48.620 it had been before.
00:18:50.740 And for a lot of attention seekers, not that she is, I don't know this person.
00:18:54.380 I don't know Candace Owens in real life.
00:18:56.420 But if this is what we're seeing, negative attention is just as good as the good attention. 0.73
00:19:01.620 Yeah.
00:19:01.920 So it's so interesting that you say this because she's not someone that I would take at her word.
00:19:06.780 I guess I'll put it that way.
00:19:07.760 Like, I don't know how reliable of a narrator she is. 1.00
00:19:10.260 However, when she says like, oh, overnight, I realized that feminists were the real enemy 0.87
00:19:15.080 and the people that I should be aligning myself were people like Milo Yiannopoulos.
00:19:19.380 I don't think that she's outright lying.
00:19:21.580 But I think that what she's saying is probably a lot closer to what you've just said, Sam, that like what she realized was like when I was just a feminist online, I didn't get a lot of attention.
00:19:32.640 But when I started publicly beefing with these other feminists, I was getting a lot of attention. 0.70
00:19:38.720 These these right wing extremist types like Milo Yiannopoulos, who had huge platforms, started paying me more attention and giving me more support, giving me more engagement. 0.96
00:19:48.660 And, like, I think there's something to this idea that, like, I wouldn't necessarily say that she changed her ideological ideas.
00:19:59.880 I think that what she realized was, like, oh, if I align myself with people on the right, that comes with attention.
00:20:06.060 Again, this is just my opinion.
00:20:07.060 I don't know her, but that's my sense.
00:20:08.800 Like, I don't think that she's outright misrepresenting this shift.
00:20:12.720 But I think it's not necessarily about an ideology so much as it is like, oh, public spats and rage bait and spectacle gets me engagement and attention and that can translate to dollars?
00:20:29.020 Oh, I can play this game.
00:20:30.700 That's my sense of what's going on here.
00:20:33.400 I mean, it sounds like she was finding a brand.
00:20:37.280 And she is a brand, whether or not we want to admit that's the case.
00:20:41.780 but she is a brand and she's starting to hone in on this brand and she's going to go for what gives 0.95
00:20:47.960 her the most success. Dot, dot, dot. Yeah. And this was successful. Like once she starts doing
00:20:56.560 this, you know, and she starts promoting right-wing viewpoints on YouTube, she had a YouTube channel
00:21:01.380 called Red Pill Black, which like, I got to say is actually like a pretty good name. Credit where
00:21:07.020 credit is due. It's like, I guess I like that branding. She catches the attention of Charlie
00:21:12.180 Kirk, who founded Turning Points USA, which is like big right wing media entity. And he hires
00:21:18.200 her. So at this point, Candace goes from like a little no name blogger blogging about lefty
00:21:24.560 politics that nobody's ever heard of to like making huge viral videos that are getting so 0.67
00:21:30.820 much attention where she's doing things like dismissing the 2017 white supremacist unite the 0.82
00:21:36.480 right rally in Charlottesville that left Heather Heyer dead, Alex Jones invites her to co-host some
00:21:41.480 of his InfoWars shows. And again, like, keep in mind, these, I know they seem like fringe media
00:21:49.080 entities, and in some ways they are, but they get so many viewers. Like, Alex Jones, at his height,
00:21:55.280 was getting tons and tons and tons of eyeballs. She starts doing stints on Fox News. So, like,
00:22:00.580 that's a little more mainstream than InfoWars, right? And in 2021, she joined the Daily Wire
00:22:06.980 with a ton of fanfare. Like, this was a huge deal. She ends up moving to Nashville. And when she does
00:22:13.520 that, the state even introduces House Joint Resolution 350, a resolution in the Tennessee 0.98
00:22:19.340 government to congratulate Candace Owens on relocating to Tennessee for work at the Daily
00:22:24.720 Wire that reads, quote, whereas Ms. Owens has earned the admiration and respect of millions
00:22:29.480 of Americans through her activism in support of President Trump as a Black woman and her
00:22:33.920 perceptive criticism of creeping socialism and leftist political tyranny.
00:22:38.480 Imagine moving to Nashville and it's such a big deal that, like, the government of Nashville
00:22:44.520 makes it an official, like, proclamation in Tennessee government.
00:22:51.080 And if she steps outside of downtown Nashville, she's going to get threatened.
00:22:57.360 For sure.
00:22:57.960 i feel threatened outside i felt threatened in a lot of places but like yeah so
00:23:05.760 and as a person who was the only asian person in a crowd the tokenism is so loud yeah i mean that
00:23:15.140 that proclamation like oh like we're proclaiming that she's great because she's a black woman who
00:23:21.160 likes trump like i mean add to things like this is one of the reasons why i think a lot about
00:23:26.620 Candace Owens as like a kind of seductive quality that can come with being a person of color who is
00:23:35.480 being uplifted as like some special thing right some special one and it's it's such a trap because 0.98
00:23:44.460 I don't want to be anybody's token right I don't want to be anybody's like oh like this is a black 0.98
00:23:50.100 woman who's doing X, Y, Z, but I understand the seductive lure of that. And so like, I don't know,
00:23:57.240 I guess I almost sort of see Candace Owens as like a fun house mirror version of myself. Like
00:24:02.800 if, like if, like if I were someone who was really moved or swayed by being uplifted because of
00:24:12.400 these things that make me tokenizable, I can sort of see liking this. And so I, I sort of see a lot
00:24:19.280 of, like, of my shadow self in Candace Owens, I guess I should say. Does that make sense? I
00:24:25.380 probably sound— No, yes. No, I think I understand. Because, like, my younger self, my younger self
00:24:30.180 seeking desperately to be white, seeking to be accepted by white people. So when I, in high
00:24:35.560 school, not understanding the depth and depravity of white supremacy and how dark it is, like,
00:24:42.140 sitting there arguing—no, not arguing, but agreeing with my young racist brother about the 0.97
00:24:48.040 like, yes, affirmative action is so awful. I want to earn it. I don't want to be, you know, 0.88
00:24:53.260 given special treatment because of my race. And that's not the case at all. That's not the
00:24:56.300 conversation at all. But because of what I've been fed and the minute I said that, he's like,
00:25:01.200 see, she knows she's Asian. Like he literally said that out loud and being so proud of me
00:25:06.300 for understanding white supremacy, like in like in that way. But wanting to like liking that moment
00:25:13.520 now with shame. But at that moment, I was like, yes, I'm one of you. Yes, exactly. He is you.
00:25:18.040 it's so seductive. And if you, like, I was the exact same way when I was younger, like,
00:25:24.200 and it's like, nobody likes feeling excluded or like the other, or like they don't belong.
00:25:29.760 And so in those glimmers where you, where you do feel like someone is saying like, see,
00:25:34.240 it feels good. And I think it's, it's like doing the work of training yourself to really see those
00:25:40.280 moments for what they are and not like being pulled into the good feelings of like, well,
00:25:45.460 this I'm getting feedback from my brother that's making me feel accepted and that he sees me and
00:25:52.760 whatever whatever but like you know you really have to do the work to be like well is this
00:25:56.380 actually what I want to be seen for like you know right I don't want to agree with you now
00:26:00.600 I understand what I'm agreeing with that this is this is completely wrong and against humanity
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00:26:25.680 about podcasting think again more americans listen to podcasts than ad supported streaming
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00:26:52.400 iheartadvertising.com if your bookshelf and your for you page are equally important to your
00:26:57.680 personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club,
00:27:05.080 part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride
00:27:09.320 and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week
00:27:14.500 we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't
00:27:19.000 stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From best-selling
00:27:24.300 authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments nothing is off the
00:27:29.240 table it's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters and that is a trojan
00:27:36.620 horse whether you're looking for literary deep dives smart pop culture conversations or a
00:27:41.920 community of readers who love to think a little too much you're in the right place listen to pro
00:27:47.260 society on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts see you between the
00:27:53.460 pages when i was 14 years old i was kidnapped and held captive for nine months i survived and i've
00:28:01.780 spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them i'm elizabeth
00:28:07.660 smart and these are the survivor files i just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear
00:28:15.240 saying shut up don't say anything every week i'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable
00:28:23.200 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.
00:28:27.660 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.
00:28:35.280 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:28:39.180 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.
00:28:42.620 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:28:45.740 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 1.00
00:29:00.080 What if Candace Owens is pulling the best grift of all time and just taking all the conservatives money? 1.00
00:29:09.860 Like, if that was the end story to this, I'm like, if anybody deserves the Republican conservative money, it's a black woman. 0.96
00:29:18.520 So I can't really. I hear that. 1.00
00:29:22.000 Like, this is smart. I mean, it's not smart.
00:29:24.220 It's like it feels like a betrayal.
00:29:25.620 But for her on her individual level, coming in and being tokened to be on these multimillion dollar shows, because, you know, we know that Alex Jones made a lot of money from his hatred.
00:29:37.040 We know that we've seen it. He talks about it.
00:29:38.940 uh we know uh charlie kirk as well her coming in and taking their money it's kind of like
00:29:44.260 you know i don't hate it for you like i hate what you're saying yeah so i used to think and again
00:29:52.220 this is my opinion i don't know her like that or anything but like i used to think like certainly
00:29:56.540 she's playing these people she doesn't believe this now i don't know now i now i think she's
00:30:02.160 like a true believer but like maybe i i go back and forth and again it's one of those things that
00:30:07.960 one of those reasons why i find her so deeply fascinating right because like like as a black
00:30:13.940 woman i am tempted to like project like well certainly this is some sort of a i mean it is
00:30:19.020 a grift don't get me wrong it is like for sure a grift like she grifted can confirm but like
00:30:24.780 i it really it really prompts me to look back at myself to be like well why am i like why like am
00:30:32.160 i low-key rooting for her like what is this right right like you're the like you're not my favorite
00:30:38.200 but you're not the worst worst exactly i can't figure out where you are in this in the spectrum
00:30:43.520 but you know on top of all of that as we were talking about in nashville being like if you go
00:30:48.100 outside of the city escape and no people don't know you you're not gonna get this love that you
00:30:54.240 think you're getting from this very uh again white supremacist patriarch that you are representing
00:31:01.200 and are trying to play for,
00:31:02.880 like all these things,
00:31:04.400 eventually they're going to turn on you.
00:31:06.280 Well, that actually happens in her story.
00:31:09.340 So, you know, when she's working at Daily Wire,
00:31:12.220 you're thinking like, you know,
00:31:13.660 she's got this huge gig,
00:31:15.120 probably making a ton of money, 1.00
00:31:16.320 should be smooth sailing.
00:31:17.600 But there is a huge, messy public fallout
00:31:20.640 just a few years later.
00:31:21.760 So she's working at Daily Wire.
00:31:25.000 Last year, there was this public friction
00:31:27.060 between Candice and Ben Shapiro,
00:31:28.780 one of the founders of Daily Wire,
00:31:29.980 the network that Candace used to be on. Now, it's not 100 percent clear exactly what caused
00:31:36.420 the tension between the two, but at least publicly, it seemed to be some kind of a reaction to the
00:31:42.680 situation in Gaza. Ben Shapiro is Jewish, and Owens has said a lot of anti-Semitic stuff. Like,
00:31:48.500 even before October 7th, she was going hard doing things like defending Kanye West,
00:31:52.980 but things really seemed to kick into high gear with her anti-Semitism on October 7th.
00:31:57.480 Now, it is important to make a distinction here that she's not, like, criticizing the
00:32:03.400 actions of the Israeli state.
00:32:05.400 She is getting into stuff like blood libel conspiracy theories, which is this anti-Semitic
00:32:10.260 conspiracy theory that Jewish people drink blood for power, and, like, other deep, deep
00:32:16.140 conspiracy theories, right? 0.97
00:32:17.500 Like, she said that Judaism was a, quote, pedophile-centric religion that believes in 0.71
00:32:22.280 demons and child sacrifice, and that people are waking up to the fact that pedophiles 0.96
00:32:26.780 are in power. So she is saying some like truly out of pocket wild stuff. And then things start
00:32:34.280 taking kind of a bet toward her employer. She wrote on Twitter, quote, no one can serve two
00:32:40.360 masters. You cannot serve both God and money. To which Ben Shapiro, comma, her boss replies,
00:32:48.420 Candace, if you feel that taking money from the Daily Wire somehow comes between you and God,
00:32:53.200 by all means quit now i gotta say like i i don't find myself agreeing with candace owens or ben
00:33:02.700 chapiro much but i kind of feel like ben chapiro kind of has a point here like this is her boss
00:33:07.580 and she is publicly getting into sabbats with him on twitter not a good look yeah could have maybe
00:33:15.600 maybe done that a little bit more privately yeah like send an email like but like that's 1.00
00:33:23.820 the thing about candace is like candace wouldn't be candace if she didn't if she if she did this 0.95
00:33:27.980 privately candace wouldn't be candace if she avoided this like her career got a jump start 0.98
00:33:33.300 from spectacle on twitter so like she that is something that it's like her bread and butter
00:33:38.260 is like spectacle on social media so it gets absolutely messy as hell and it's all public
00:33:45.480 Owens claimed that Ben Shapiro had, quote,
00:33:48.040 been acting unprofessional and emotionally unhinged for weeks now
00:33:51.780 and said that Shapiro crossed a certain line.
00:33:54.520 When you come for scripture and read yourself into it, I will not tolerate it.
00:33:58.440 She goes on Tucker Carlson's show saying that Ben Shapiro was attacking her using ad hominem attacks.
00:34:03.920 She then tweets that she wants her and Ben Shapiro to sit down and have a discussion
00:34:09.320 moderated by this podcaster, Patrick Bette-Daveed.
00:34:13.420 Ben Shapiro was having none of this.
00:34:15.440 And again, I can't say that I blame him.
00:34:17.320 Like, challenging your boss to a debate, a public debate on Twitter, it's just like
00:34:23.820 not a good look.
00:34:25.220 So when she was like, debate me, bro, Ben Shapiro tweeted, Candace, I can see why you'd
00:34:30.960 want to hide behind a moderator, particularly one who said we should rename our company,
00:34:34.580 quote, The Daily Jewish Wire just yesterday.
00:34:37.440 No, one-on-one Monday at 5 p.m.
00:34:40.440 We can sit down and have a healthy debate like adults and we'll live stream it on X
00:34:43.940 and YouTube, take it or leave it.
00:34:46.380 So they're really going back and forth.
00:34:48.880 And I gotta, I gotta give a little side note here for what it's worth.
00:34:52.260 This is just like my personal opinion as somebody who has been around the block and worked in
00:34:56.680 media for a really long time.
00:34:58.380 The reason I am not saying that the, the actual root of their disagreement was Israel or Judaism,
00:35:05.480 them like 100% is because I just smell some kind of a contractual dispute here. Something about 0.60
00:35:12.340 the way that they are going back and forth reads to me like Owens maybe had like an inflexible
00:35:19.340 ironclad contract that maybe she felt like she could make more money on her own and that she
00:35:23.880 had to get out of this contract or vice versa. Maybe Daily Wire wanted her out. Something about 0.93
00:35:28.020 the intensity of the public escalation with her boss just suggests to me that something else might
00:35:33.580 have been going on again this is just my sense i don't have any inside information it just seems
00:35:38.060 like a lot to be doing it just seems like a lot to be doing but again this is candace owens we're
00:35:44.700 talking about the very definition of doing the most on the on social media but that's just my
00:35:49.880 sense i feel like it's one again once like the the fact that they work so hard on like the
00:35:56.880 conservative right-wing side that knowing that one person being jewish and the other person being
00:36:02.060 uh a black woman i'm like they're not on your side it's like no they just are just like 0.90
00:36:07.660 wanting you to fight it out this is what they want so that they can retain more power but you
00:36:12.920 two i mean it's just it's just is it ironic i don't know or is it just sad listen sam i was like
00:36:19.940 watching this like get him like like i was like let him fight like i i was my nose was loving
00:36:26.480 every minute was like faving every tweet reading like you know how it used to be on twitter you
00:36:31.120 could like go to like show more to see like i need to start from the beginning i was eating it
00:36:37.400 up the novel and again like obviously candace has hit on something because like these this public 1.00
00:36:43.240 spectacle these public spats even with her employer they do generate engagement like she's 0.99
00:36:48.440 she's she's not new to this she's true to this like she's been using this kind of thing to get
00:36:53.840 negative attention to boost herself for a very long time and she's very good at it
00:36:58.960 So that seems to be like the red line here was when Rabbi Shmuley Botich criticized Owens for her defenses of Kanye West.
00:37:09.040 Owens then liked to tweet asking the rabbi if he was, quote, drunk on Jewish blood again. 0.97
00:37:14.120 A few days later, Daily Wire and Candace Owens officially ended their relationship with Owens tweeting, the rumors are true. 0.97
00:37:22.840 I am finally free.
00:37:24.120 whoo i just there's so many things that i like there's so many things to this level of
00:37:35.680 conversation that yes it is it's just like the the song uh francesco ramsey did with like that
00:37:42.260 lepers would eat your face or you know like they didn't think you know and i'm like yeah but at
00:37:47.460 the same time with the way she ended it does sound like it was a whole play to get out i just i mean
00:37:53.060 like I don't know but like she had to like there is no way that Candace did not think that like
00:38:03.440 she was putting her job at risk right so I just do not buy that she was like I'm gonna be I just
00:38:10.620 these are my convictions and I can just say what I want and it's free speech and it'll be fine there
00:38:15.680 is no way like I just if anybody listening has the real tea I just can sense there's something
00:38:22.040 else here and it just it just it gives contract dispute to me that's all i'll say so this is
00:38:28.600 where the story gets interesting to me because she kind of fell off of my radar after this i was
00:38:32.560 like oh i guess she's out at daily wire hadn't really heard much from her i guess she's like
00:38:37.180 doing her thing and it wasn't until i was trying to make sense of the dispute between these two
00:38:45.720 hollywood a-listers blake lively and justin baldoni that she popped up on my radar again so
00:38:51.180 i gotta give a big psa this is not meant to be a definitive breakdown of what is happening with
00:38:57.160 justin boldoni and blake lively which probably could be like its own episode it is not a situation
00:39:02.660 that i have followed super closely so i am like not the right person to dig in on all of that i
00:39:07.140 don't have any kind of like take or anything like i like it's just not it's not a it's not a situation
00:39:12.260 that i am super read in on because it's a little bit like complicated and i can't quite follow it
00:39:17.560 But that dynamic where I'm like, oh, I don't really know what's going on, but I'm sort of like casually trying to find out.
00:39:24.120 That is actually how Candace Owens got back on my radar.
00:39:27.260 So do you all know what's happening between Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni?
00:39:30.340 Is it something that's like been on y'all's radar?
00:39:32.400 It's been against my will?
00:39:35.280 Literally today, I was like, thank God I haven't heard anything about Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni. 0.99
00:39:41.100 And then you sent me out loud and I was like, damn it. 0.93
00:39:43.960 I feel the same way. 0.98
00:39:45.000 Everything I've learned about it has been against my will.
00:39:46.900 I'm like, why do I need to, like, what, like, it's just, like, not something, I don't know, it's just, like, not.
00:39:53.640 I mean, in the end, like, because they were trying to compare it to the Johnny Depp Amber Heard case, which I'm like, yo, back off.
00:40:00.720 There's so many things that the implication of that alone makes me think I don't want to take this seriously because it's not to that level.
00:40:08.400 We have this conversation because like we spoke very quickly before it blew up to this, like the very beginning of the conflict, mainly talking about how domestic violence victims and survivors really were offended by the way that the movie, which is the center of this controversy, was portrayed.
00:40:28.520 And then how the ad marketing went for it, like made it all girly, good times, all these things that they were like, this is really kind of offensive.
00:40:37.180 Like this language of this entire language of something that is very serious and people have taken very personally and have like a lot of familiarity with and trauma with.
00:40:48.120 And then it felt like flat, especially like with how it is now, especially because it's no longer about the movie.
00:40:57.040 anymore but but like it's it was we took a small take on that and why romanticizing domestic
00:41:04.060 violence is such a such a problem in hollywood and just in our environment in general uh but
00:41:10.020 like this was way before everything happened and the back and forth and back and forth
00:41:16.420 i will say there's a lot of disdain for blake lively on my feed yes again i did not choose this
00:41:25.400 okay so it's so funny that you say this i have experienced the exact same thing so so if folks
00:41:31.780 don't know what we're talking about if you are like annie blissfully unaware of like what is
00:41:36.560 going on it's it's a situation it's like a little bit complicated and it's ongoing but it's actually
00:41:43.140 like a pretty interesting story and it does include a lot of things that i am interested in
00:41:47.080 like how celebrities use social media how easily social media platforms can be like weaponized for
00:41:52.560 or against a specific person email correspondence where people make themselves look terrible in
00:41:57.700 writing because they clearly do not expect these emails to be like in a deposition or in the new
00:42:01.760 york times that is my personal favorite thing nothing right when whenever it's like oh we have
00:42:06.300 the emails i'm like i'm gonna read every single one of them like please continue to put your
00:42:10.020 wrongdoings and in emails and in writing so that i can read them later in a deposition
00:42:14.880 so like i do think that folks should like if that seems like the kind of situation that you
00:42:20.400 are interested in, like, it is a meaty situation, so, like, definitely listen to podcasts about it
00:42:25.860 or whatever. But for our purposes, a quick and dirty summary of what's going on is that Blake
00:42:30.740 Lively and Justin Boldoni were in a movie adaptation of the popular Colleen Hoover novel
00:42:35.980 called It Starts With Us. In December, Lively filed a legal complaint against Boldoni,
00:42:41.120 accusing him of sexual harassment and starting a smear campaign against her. Now, he strongly
00:42:45.880 denies that and has sued in response. Both camps are releasing information like text messages and
00:42:52.000 emails and like videos and voicemails to make each other look bad. So the case has turned, I mean,
00:42:59.040 kind of similar to the Johnny Depp, Amber Heard thing. It's one of those situations that has
00:43:02.260 turned into like an inkblot test that changes depending on what version of the story that you
00:43:07.100 buy. In version one, Blake Lively was being sexually harassed on set by this like fake
00:43:13.080 feminist male ally who was actually an abuser. In version two, Blake Lively is like this egomaniac 0.98
00:43:20.120 who is using her star power and A-list celebrity network like her husband, Ryan Reynolds, from 0.90
00:43:25.280 those Deadpool movies to control the narrative around her being a nightmare on set and steamrolling 0.53
00:43:30.300 everybody else on this project. So Sam, like you, kind of similar to the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard
00:43:37.520 thing. And in some ways, I think depending on what silos of the internet you are in,
00:43:43.240 you might be algorithmically being given the idea that the public sentiment leans one way or
00:43:49.720 another. Like on TikTok, for whatever reason, my TikTok algorithm thinks I hate Blake Lively and
00:43:55.760 that I want to see like lots of videos like pouring over every nuance of the ways in which
00:44:02.420 she is a fraud, which is not true. She's not someone who like, I spend really any time at
00:44:06.820 all thinking about but it's interesting that like the algorithm thinks like oh this is somebody who
00:44:11.300 hates blake lively right i agree for some reason i am getting all of the tea on all the awful things
00:44:19.160 that blake lively is and all the people who hate her and why they hate her and i'm like i have never
00:44:24.340 once i don't know if i've ever seen a blake lively movie i don't think i have if i sisterhood of the
00:44:29.560 traveling pants no okay that's usually the one people know like that or i will say say whatever
00:44:36.500 you want to about like lively the movie a simple favor slaps she's great in that um did you get
00:44:41.400 the tea on how much they hate each other on that what that's what i did i did see an interview
00:44:47.900 where um who is her co-star in that anna kendrick right anna kendrick where they were asking her
00:44:52.980 about blake live and she does have a very weird response apparently they hate each other and
00:44:57.380 that's that's what i've understood that's what they're telling me because they don't ever show
00:45:01.420 up together on the red carpet so when i say my feed really feeds to the fact that i must hate
00:45:08.080 blake lively when i don't know this person and like i like not that i know any celebrity like
00:45:13.620 that but i'm like but i've never at one point have i looked her up or like she's not on my feed i
00:45:20.240 don't look her up on my like searches i guess the one time it was for the it ends with us
00:45:25.380 damn it every time i research something for the show it messes me up but anyway yeah
00:45:30.700 but yeah no that is I'm like I guess we really don't trust Blake Lively we being a TikTok 0.95
00:45:39.720 yeah my TikTok FYP the same as you like I was trying to get to the bottom of like what was
00:45:46.460 going on with this this Justin and Blake thing and one of my cousins who I would like lovingly
00:45:51.820 describe as a normie and that she's not like super online she's not you know deep in the depths of
00:45:57.320 like extremism or anything like that,
00:45:58.900 like the way that I am,
00:46:00.000 my cousin is like,
00:46:00.820 oh, there's this Black girl journalist
00:46:02.080 who has really been following the story 0.98
00:46:04.640 and breaking it down.
00:46:05.880 We will tag you
00:46:06.760 so you can figure out what's going on.
00:46:08.060 And that journalist was Candace Owens.
00:46:10.300 And I was like, what?
00:46:11.900 Like, I could not believe
00:46:15.220 that my cousins who were like,
00:46:18.280 not at all,
00:46:19.800 like there are not people
00:46:20.780 who are like pouring over the minutia
00:46:22.980 of what's happening on the internet
00:46:25.360 and extremism the way that I am.
00:46:27.100 like they're pretty offline, would ever, like I was like, how did you even get Candace Owens
00:46:32.900 on your radar to be like listening to her podcast or watching her YouTube? And the reason is because
00:46:38.400 she has introduced herself to a brand new subset of listeners and audience by covering this Blake
00:46:47.540 Lively thing. So her coverage very clearly takes an anti-Blake stance. As The Cut put it in a piece
00:46:54.800 called Candace Owens Has Gone Mainstream, quote, the right-wing commentator's coverage of the
00:46:59.900 Blake Lively-Justin Boldani case has reached millions of viewers. Owens' podcast was hours and
00:47:04.980 hours of analysis of the case, deep dives into court filings, tabloid news stories, even Ryan
00:47:10.260 Reynolds' recent appearance on Saturday Night Live's 50th anniversary special. She's really
00:47:14.840 been able to go in and pinpoint discrepancies in some of the things Blake Lively has said,
00:47:19.540 rather than having us go through it on our own, one listener says. Though she recognizes that
00:47:23.880 Owens seems to have a pro-Baldani bias. 0.96
00:47:26.140 She doesn't care. 0.77
00:47:27.780 Candace is urging us to look past the fact 0.95
00:47:29.660 that this is not a feminist issue at all,
00:47:31.940 that it's about getting justice 0.84
00:47:33.100 for whoever is being wrong.
00:47:34.720 She's uniting the left and the right.
00:47:38.760 So, I mean, it's just like,
00:47:42.760 it is, I mean, on the one hand,
00:47:44.620 it seems surprising that this celebrity story
00:47:47.820 would be the thing that would galvanize
00:47:50.540 an audience of mostly women 1.00
00:47:52.320 and introduce Candace Owens and who she is 1.00
00:47:55.560 and her ideologies and all of that to a new audience. 0.96
00:47:58.040 But on the other hand, like,
00:47:59.980 that's pretty much exactly what they do,
00:48:02.440 what they did at the Daily Wire.
00:48:03.760 Like, nobody was more obsessed with celebrity
00:48:05.980 than people like Ben Shapiro.
00:48:07.460 They loved, like, taking down Woke Disney,
00:48:10.400 Woke Star Wars.
00:48:11.620 Like, he had a big feud with Meg Thee Stallion,
00:48:14.200 Beyonce.
00:48:14.740 Like, just because it's negative
00:48:16.340 doesn't mean it's not fandom.
00:48:17.820 It's just, like, going in the other direction.
00:48:19.720 Right.
00:48:20.800 Actually, we need to say he had a one-sided B for it.
00:48:24.880 Because they did not.
00:48:26.100 Like, it just makes me laugh.
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00:49:16.880 When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.
00:49:23.040 I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.
00:49:29.420 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.
00:49:33.120 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, 0.99
00:49:38.540 Shut up. Don't say anything. 0.99
00:49:41.200 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable.
00:49:45.740 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.
00:49:50.180 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.
00:49:57.800 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:50:01.720 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.
00:50:05.160 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:50:08.280 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:50:17.240 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.
00:50:23.160 This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.
00:50:35.640 I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.
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00:51:09.360 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:51:15.400 See you between the pages.
00:51:16.500 you know the other parts of this with as much as my algorithm wants to show me all the anti
00:51:28.120 Blake Lively stuff as well as all of the controversy because yes I would get updates
00:51:32.580 about the SNL thing about how everybody snubbed Ryan Reynolds I was like did they
00:51:35.940 okay but like interestingly I did get content not from Candace Owens but other creators reminding me
00:51:46.500 and everybody listening, that Candace Owens is a right-winged fanatic and that they need to be 0.99
00:51:51.440 wary of the information she's giving about this specific case. Yes. So I think that's like why I
00:51:57.260 wanted to make this episode. This is a general reminder of who Candace Owens is. And like,
00:52:02.760 we all love celebrity gossip. I know I do. But like, let's just remember who she is and the
00:52:08.440 source. And like, she might want to rebrand herself, but let's just keep it at the forefront
00:52:14.020 front of our minds who she is and what she's about. And like, she's really has exploded in
00:52:19.480 popularity from this coverage. You know, it's been attracting a lot more viewers beyond her normal
00:52:25.360 right-wing extremist base, like you were saying, Sam. It's like normies like my cousins, my cousins
00:52:29.780 who might not have any idea who she is. They just think she's an entertainment journalist. 0.72
00:52:33.460 All of this has meant explosive growth and engagement for Owens. Here's how the cut put it
00:52:37.240 in that piece. Since Owens started covering the Lively Baldoni case, her YouTube channel has
00:52:41.660 exploded in popularity, allowing her to attract a much larger fan base than the audience of
00:52:45.860 hardcore conservatives she has amassed over the years. Each episode about Lively and Baldani
00:52:50.740 racks up at least 1.5 million views. In the past month alone, Owens has amassed more than
00:52:56.260 450,000 new subscribers on YouTube, and her total video views have quadrupled since this time last
00:53:02.380 year, according to data from the analytics platform Social Blade. Over the past three
00:53:06.880 months, her audience on YouTube has also started skewing 65% female, according to data provided by
00:53:12.220 a spokesperson, a market shift from her past fan base. So this has all been great news for Owens
00:53:18.040 and where her audience used to be like men, you know, like probably like your brother, right? Like
00:53:24.820 right-wing men. By covering this story, she's really attracting a lot of women. 1.00
00:53:29.580 oh my stomach kind of hurts um it is really interesting that this came in with gamer gate
00:53:38.620 as well because like we were saying gamer gate was such a mess and there were so many men
00:53:46.920 who who would be like see this woman agrees with me and i hate it because sometimes i'm like why
00:53:54.920 i just want to have a conversation about why i don't like this game and now you've made it into
00:54:00.220 this woman agrees with me and now you're using it to attract more women to be like see
00:54:07.980 we're on the we are correct and you are wrong and so when you see things like this
00:54:15.700 where she started out with mostly men and then she's attracting like all of these women i feel
00:54:24.240 like um it's worth asking why do you think this took off for her this story so one I will say
00:54:35.560 that like Candace actually is pretty interesting to listen to like I don't agree with what she's
00:54:40.600 saying but she does like even when she was a progressive blogger she does have like a point
00:54:46.220 of view and a clear voice and I think that really comes through in her coverage of Blake Lively
00:54:50.400 You know, she has this way of speaking that signals to you like, oh, this person is really breaking it down. It's the same reason why things on TikTok, things like story time or like I'm spilling the tea really holds people's attention. I think that Candace really does know how to do that. One, I think the second kind of gets at what you were saying, Annie, that we just love misogyny.
00:55:12.740 And I think if that misogyny can be laced with, like, a threat of conspiracy, it's even better, right?
00:55:19.300 Like, social media platforms are always going to amplify things like misogyny or misogynoir or racism or transphobia.
00:55:27.200 I think all of that is just baked into what it means to show up on social media.
00:55:31.200 And I think Owens really, in a savvy way, takes that a step further by breaking all of this down like she's explaining a conspiracy, right?
00:55:40.480 So she's not just saying, like, here's my take on Blake Lively or here's what's going on with the Blake Lively case or, you know, here's why even, like, here's why I don't like Blake Lively.
00:55:51.420 She has this tinge of, like, she's uncovering this dark truth about this successful woman to take her down.
00:55:59.100 Like, of course that's going to take off. 1.00
00:56:00.960 People love that.
00:56:01.960 So the fact that she's not just giving information about Blake Lively, she's doing it in this
00:56:07.160 way that's like, let's go back through 15 years of footage of her speaking and dive
00:56:12.180 through the minutia of everything that she said on camera to highlight the discrepancies 0.70
00:56:17.140 to show what a dark, twisted person she is. 0.99
00:56:20.500 Like, of course people are going to love that.
00:56:22.360 And I think that one of the reasons why people like conspiracy theories is that it really
00:56:26.620 does allow for, like, fantasy and world building to become part of this coverage, right? Like,
00:56:32.720 Candace's coverage of Blake Lively is wild because she is a truly wild person. And so if
00:56:37.600 you're someone who was just, like, wants to get the brain rush of, like, going down a deep rabbit
00:56:43.060 hole, whether or not it's true or whether or not it's, like, made up, that's going to be enticing
00:56:47.060 for you. You know, as Owens herself puts it, she does not follow a, quote, traditional style of
00:56:51.980 reporting that's putting it pretty lightly she will amplify rumors right like she once even read
00:56:57.620 a letter that she said was from ryan reynolds's acting coach from when he was 12 years old and
00:57:03.600 that acting coach allegedly said ryan reynolds was obnoxious as a 12 year old like there are
00:57:09.620 side characters and stuff like she really fleshes out this world of what she's saying is it real
00:57:16.080 is it accurate who cares of course people are coming to hear that tea on a story they're invested
00:57:21.300 in right i feel like though like this is definitely in her alley in her wheelhouse in that
00:57:27.840 this feeds into the hollywood demons kind of trope as well as like her uh response to the 0.96
00:57:36.200 me too movement i know like she was definitely anti-feminist in that movement as well like this 0.98
00:57:40.880 kind of all feeds into that perfectly for her yes so i think that's another reason why this
00:57:48.240 has taken off because I think that, like, there is something inherently inviting about the power
00:57:53.380 of, like, taking a contrarian stance on something. Like, after Me Too, lots of women got engagement 0.75
00:57:59.220 by taking a contrarian stance. Ironically, Blake Lively praised both Woody Allen and Harvey
00:58:04.360 Weinstein. That last one is going to be interesting to note for later. So I think there is this
00:58:10.140 attitude where, like, going against convention, you know, if there's a convention that says we
00:58:15.400 automatically got to support the woman in any situation it probably makes people who are turning
00:58:20.220 to owens's coverage and her breakdowns feel like free thinkers who are going against the grain and
00:58:25.160 like willing to take an unpopular opinion uh which feels good like it feels good to think
00:58:30.060 of yourself in that way which then obviously connects to some of her more like odious stances
00:58:34.960 about trans people and women and jewish people like if you if you can get people introduced to
00:58:41.900 the idea that it's like good to take an unpopular opinion when you're talking about a celebrity that
00:58:47.820 people don't like imagine how then you can walk them down to be like it isn't and also don't you
00:58:52.980 not like trans people and also don't you think women should not have jobs and also don't you
00:58:56.340 not like jewish people like it's like kind of all coming from the same place yeah um okay so 0.97
00:59:04.120 she's very engaging and she it's sort of like you know here's some celebrity gossip let me give you 0.98
00:59:12.480 this conspiracy theory and also kind of this hate on the side right um but it's been very successful
00:59:19.280 but has has the new audience changed uh her stances at all that's a great question according
00:59:29.060 to owens she has not really changed her views despite her rebrand she says in terms of my
00:59:35.140 perspective i haven't changed anything i've been anti me too since long before it was cool
00:59:40.080 when it comes to the which like oh first of all that's what do you as like feminist media makers 0.90
00:59:49.380 do you think like i just am so curious about that take of like first of all just the assumption
00:59:54.700 that like it's cool to be anti me too right now i mean i don't know i just have a lot of questions 0.88
00:59:59.600 this is definitely the whole like red pill level of women trying to be the i hate this term but 0.87
01:00:06.300 like the pick me like give me like i it's now cool because the boys like me like it that's what 1.00
01:00:11.740 it sounds like because most women who have been through these processes or her survivors would
01:00:17.580 never say the level people i'm not even just like survivors people with conscious like like that in
01:00:28.080 general that's not a that's not a statement you want that's not a winning statement it's not that's
01:00:33.360 a good way to put it it's not a winning statement and when it comes to the success of the content
01:00:37.920 that she's made around blake lively candace says that she thinks her new fans especially the ones
01:00:42.360 coming from the left have quote just kind of gotten wise to the fact that maybe women lie
01:00:48.420 just like men and do you can do you want to know what her next big issue is going to be like after
01:00:55.420 she moves on from blake lively she's already signaled to what it is oh really because we're 0.98
01:00:59.400 still in the middle of this the lawsuit hasn't been settled but okay what is she's got but she's
01:01:03.940 already looking to what i mean like it's not gonna last forever she's already got a sense of like
01:01:08.080 where she's going next her next big issue is going to be championing harvey weinstein the disgraced
01:01:14.720 filmmaker that really did kickstart the me too movement she's been interviewing him uh by phone
01:01:21.780 since 2022 here's how the hollywood reporter explains it candace's takeaway is that while
01:01:28.360 harvey weinstein is an immoral man he's also a victim of the justice system owens a long time
01:01:34.000 and persistent critic of the Me Too movement,
01:01:36.040 of which the Harvey Weinstein saga
01:01:38.440 served as the watershed,
01:01:40.080 noted that, quote,
01:01:41.080 I've always had faith in our court system
01:01:43.040 and now that's beginning to change.
01:01:45.140 Now I'm wondering if our courtrooms
01:01:46.720 have been politicized.
01:01:48.260 I love that it's Harvey Weinstein
01:01:50.340 being convicted that she's like,
01:01:53.160 are the courts not on the money?
01:01:58.760 I...
01:01:59.160 I don't know.
01:02:00.980 I'm sure there's some other serial killers
01:02:02.600 that she should represent as much like this is okay to be fair she has had she has her fingers 0.99
01:02:13.320 on the pulse in that knowing this is gonna drive up attention like she is gonna get the publicity
01:02:19.260 that she wants with that like how bigger could you go outside of being like i'm gonna go dig up
01:02:26.720 hitler and interview him and tell him i miss him like that that's yeah you know i mean she she
01:02:34.400 agrees with you she said that she's putting out a series called harvey speaks and when asked about
01:02:39.620 it she said quote it will explode the world that's a direct quote oh my gosh she's a business woman
01:02:49.200 for sure yeah we all have that to look forward to i mean again like she's sat like i cannot deny
01:02:56.380 that this is smart like i i don't i do i don't agree with it i don't think it's good i don't
01:03:02.540 think it's good for the world but like i think she has her finger on the pulse of what is actually
01:03:07.860 going to be projects to put out that will capture people's attention for better or for worse and i
01:03:14.220 think like she's really got something she's like cracked into something i know for better or worse
01:03:22.300 indeed uh she she has and you know every time we talk to you bridget we always talk about
01:03:28.580 how the algorithms and so many of our social media uh pushes this content up uh and how we engage in
01:03:36.500 it so she's figured it out she's figured that out and i think you're exactly right and i think like
01:03:45.240 that's the so what of this story is that you know candace has so many other things going on like
01:03:51.900 she's pivoting into other kinds of programming. 1.00
01:03:54.080 She's branding out and doing a book club 1.00
01:03:55.540 for paying subscribers and a fitness program.
01:03:58.080 And I think that, I believe her when she says
01:04:01.040 that she's not like rebranding.
01:04:03.060 I think rather she is trying to rebrand her followers, 1.00
01:04:06.320 these new followers, many of whom are just like women 0.89
01:04:09.040 who are interested in this scandal.
01:04:11.960 I believe that the point is for them
01:04:14.160 to be walked down a pipeline 1.00
01:04:15.360 that includes her other extremist attitudes, 0.98
01:04:18.060 really using this Blake Lively celebrity scandal 1.00
01:04:21.020 as the hook. And I think because celebrity stories, especially ones that involve women,
01:04:25.380 are so often just like considered fluff. So a lot of people who care about like extremist content
01:04:31.600 or ideology might not be paying that much attention to how these stories that you might
01:04:35.820 see on Us Weekly are tapping into those ideologies and unleashing those ideologies on a brand new
01:04:41.400 audience. And so I think that's especially concerning when you're talking about things
01:04:45.580 It's like celebrity because, you know, when I'm reading celebrity scandals or like reading Us Weekly, I might not be primed to have my like BS detector on and up because it just is like you think of it as a less charged space.
01:04:58.200 And so I think that it really can be more dangerous because it lends itself to people being more susceptible to ideological content they might not be expecting without even realizing it.
01:05:09.520 And, like, I think it's very easy for Candace Owens to go from, like, saying Blake Lively 0.57
01:05:15.100 is lying to, like, women lie to women can't be trusted to, like, women should not have
01:05:20.360 jobs, which I'm not just, like, pulling that out of nowhere. 0.99
01:05:23.180 That is a stance that Candace Owens has explicitly advocated for, that women should not have 1.00
01:05:27.380 employment. 0.99
01:05:27.800 They cannot be trusted with work, despite herself obviously being a working woman. 0.97
01:05:31.240 So, like, basically, you just can't trust her.
01:05:33.220 She's not someone that you can trust.
01:05:35.160 Don't let her rebrand as a celebrity journalist fool you.
01:05:38.880 if somebody tags you in a video of hers to be like,
01:05:42.480 oh, she's really breaking it down,
01:05:44.100 just remember that she is trying to soften
01:05:47.000 what it is that she advocates for and believes in.
01:05:50.480 And like, we shouldn't let her do that.
01:05:52.140 We should really remember who she is and what she's about
01:05:54.820 because she's made it very clear.
01:05:55.820 Right.
01:05:56.540 I mean, she's definitely on the same lines 0.73
01:05:58.580 of what we've seen as a new generation
01:06:00.840 talking about young men on podcasts
01:06:02.860 and how they've been able to influence young men.
01:06:05.780 Like this is coming in as influencing young women 0.73
01:06:08.480 I mean, just today I'm seeing a lot of content about how the younger generations are being red-pilled, as they would say, which is fitting here.
01:06:18.880 And things like the soft live content being a beginning for a lot of young women not realizing they're getting that kind of brand.
01:06:27.560 We've talked about that with self-care.
01:06:29.460 We've talked about that with yoga and the clean lifestyle type of thing.
01:06:34.340 how that easily becomes a pipeline for the conservative right-wing community.
01:06:40.360 And this is kind of that big story, except that we see her branding and we know who she is. 1.00
01:06:44.780 But if you don't know from jump her stance, this is definitely a worrisome tactic. 0.95
01:06:51.240 Because we know things like true crime and celebrity gossip, like it's geared towards young women. 0.99
01:06:57.820 It's geared towards women in general. 0.68
01:06:59.260 And they also spend a lot of money and they spend a lot of time in it, investigating and taking part of it. 0.98
01:07:03.960 So it's really worrisome. Like, it is comical, as we were talking at the beginning, like, what is this, to very concerning and understanding that when we let this stuff go, like you were saying, like, this is fluff content, but in actuality, it's feeding into a conservative ideal that becomes mainstream, and it's usually really dangerous.
01:07:22.060 Yeah.
01:07:22.920 So when people are like, oh, I just want to listen to my true crime podcast, I don't want
01:07:26.420 to get political, or I just want to read about celebrities, I don't want to get political.
01:07:29.720 I hate to break it to you, all of that stuff is political.
01:07:32.500 That is all political.
01:07:33.760 And it can be harnessed to shift attitudes of people who are being like, oh, this is
01:07:41.240 not political, into more extremist ways of thinking.
01:07:44.440 And so if you are a savvy consumer of media or a savvy consumer of anything, whether it's
01:07:49.260 true crime content or celebrity content or yoga or wellness content or any of that, we really got
01:07:55.120 to be primed in thinking about the ways this content can be so easily weaponized to spread
01:08:00.680 a certain ideology that we might not want to get mixed up in. Absolutely. Oh, every time you come
01:08:06.880 here, Bridget, I'm like, we have 15 million other topics we need to talk about. But thank you. Thank
01:08:16.040 you as always for coming on and taking the time. We'd love to have you. Where can the good listeners
01:08:22.380 find you? Well, you can listen to my podcast on iHeartRadio called There Are No Girls on the 0.97
01:08:26.660 Internet. You can check me out on Instagram at BridgetMarie in D.C. And yeah, we'd love to hang
01:08:32.880 out there. Yes. And go do that, listeners, if you haven't already. You can find us. You can email us
01:08:41.000 at hello at stuffonevertoldyou.com. You can find us on Blue Sky at MomStuffPodcast or on Instagram
01:08:45.380 and TikTok at Stuff Whenever Told You.
01:08:47.560 We're also on YouTube.
01:08:48.560 We have a Tee Public store
01:08:49.280 and we have a book you can get
01:08:50.280 wherever you get your books.
01:08:51.300 Thanks as always to our super producer,
01:08:52.720 Christine, our executive producer,
01:08:53.740 Maya, and our contributor, Joey.
01:08:55.040 Thank you.
01:08:55.760 Thanks to you for listening.
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