There Are No Girls on the Internet - June 17, 2023


ChatGPT gets sued; Google's anti-choice cash in; GLAAD grades Twitter; Teslas go full self-rampaging; Women be Gaming — NEWS ROUNDUP

Topics
Real Life Beef: Bridget vs Essence Magazine - Listeners demand the truth about that weird 'Vila Davis' postazine Shiny Happy People: It's not just the Duggars, religious zealots want to control your future (w⧸ Eve Ettinger)

Episode Stats


Length

53 minutes

Words per minute

168.59

Word count

9,038

Sentence count

494

Harmful content

Misogyny

19

sentences flagged

Toxicity

24

sentences flagged

Hate speech

18

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
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00:00:59.060 There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.
00:01:07.180 I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.
00:01:12.480 I'm here with my producer, Mike, and here's what you may have missed this week on the Internet.
00:01:17.040 So in news that will probably shock no one, it turns out Twitter, under Elon Musk,
00:01:22.760 is not doing a very good job of dealing with anti-LGBTQ hate speech on the platform.
00:01:27.300 Who would have guessed?
00:01:28.160 Am I right?
00:01:29.020 You know, savvy listeners might have guessed.
00:01:31.860 So this is all according to GLAAD's annual report on the safety of social media platforms
00:01:36.180 for LGBTQ users.
00:01:37.940 GLAAD said that all five of the major social media platforms examined had taken steps to
00:01:42.500 improve safety over the past year, with the single exception of Twitter.
00:01:47.040 Twitter not only scored the lowest, but also changed its policies to become even less safe.
00:01:51.940 I got to say that one is sort of personal for me. Policies that I personally worked on in my platform accountability work was a little bit rough to see them rolled back. But, you know, that is to be expected when you're dealing with somebody like Elon Musk, who just clearly does not take these issues seriously.
00:02:10.160 sometimes it's easy to feel like progress is inevitable towards a more inclusive world where
00:02:18.860 we all recognize that other people are valuable and respect them but uh that's not something that
00:02:26.220 is inevitable and it is due to the hard work of people like you Bridget who push and fight to
00:02:33.280 make that positive change happen. And it's awesome when it does. And then there are times like this
00:02:41.700 where there's a reminder that there are counter forces who will push back against it.
00:02:46.680 I say this, and I mean it pretty much how it sounds, that whenever a tech company
00:02:50.920 does something good, nine times out of 10, it is not because they went to bed and woke up and their
00:02:57.560 hearts grew three sizes, like the Grinch's heart when it breaks out of that thing. 0.97
00:03:02.340 Usually there is someone, an organizer, a professional pain in the ass who is pushing them to be better. And so, I mean, as much as I hate that Twitter is not just failing to moderate their platforms in a way that allows for LGBTQ users to feel safe there and, you know, is actually rolling back those policies, it is good to see that other platforms are taking some steps in the right direction. 0.80
00:03:30.140 Yeah, that's right. Twitter is an outlier here, right? Even among Facebook and YouTube, Twitter is an outlier in rolling back protections for LGBTQ people. So that's worth noting.
00:03:43.900 So the report scored each platform in 12 areas of specific relevance to LGBTQ users, like the platform should have a policy to protect LGBTQ users from hate, and the platform should have a policy that prohibits targeted deadnaming.
00:03:57.140 I really think this should really be a wake-up call that Twitter under Elon Musk is really going out of its way to signal that anti-trans, anti-LGBTQ hate is welcome on the platform.
00:04:08.780 And I think it's a problem because it leaves marginalized people out of the conversation and it keeps us from being able to be equal participants in our discourse and democracy.
00:04:17.300 For a platform that wants to be the public square, that is really a problem.
00:04:22.200 You know, Twitter is the place where news is broken, where stories become news.
00:04:27.300 It moves so much faster than other platforms like Facebook or Instagram that I think that's one of the reasons why you see this battle for it.
00:04:35.580 And like, it's really a proxy war for power and who gets to take up space and who gets to be part of the conversation.
00:04:41.140 The fact that because of Elon Musk rolling back what little policies there were to protect LGBTQ users, that anti-trans bigots would feel comfortable showing up there and feel emboldened and empowered, which sounds like what is happening, is a real problem for a platform that heretofore had been about, you know, making news where journalists and newsmakers are congregating.
00:05:05.400 And so if people don't feel safe or good about spending time there, that's a real problem. And I also think it's not just an issue of, you know, the user experience of LGBTQ users. It's also about the security and the safety of these platforms.
00:05:20.160 Because when extremists and hate mongers are allowed to gather in these platforms, they become less secure, they become more polarized, they're easier to have bad actors disrupt them.
00:05:31.400 And so it's not just, it is about the LGBTQ users and their experiences online, but also it makes it less secure and less safe for all of us, whether you identify as LGBTQ or not.
00:05:43.120 Absolutely. Like, it is about the LGBTQ users, but also it's not about them, right? 0.90
00:05:47.960 Like the right-wing fascist types who love to hate, they're going to find somebody.
00:05:56.340 It's always going to be somebody.
00:05:58.120 So yes, it's about them, but no, it's not about them.
00:06:01.000 It's about oppression.
00:06:02.740 Folks can read the full report in our show notes, but in addition to ranking the platforms
00:06:07.860 for LGBTQ safety, the report also highlights other dangerous trends on platforms.
00:06:13.340 One of those trends is called stochastic harassment.
00:06:16.140 If you don't know what that is, it is a form of harassment where online accounts or media figures don't directly attack individuals or call for violence, but instead amplify a general narrative that indirectly dehumanizes specific groups.
00:06:30.660 In doing so, increasing the likelihood that others will engage in such violence. 0.84
00:06:35.560 A great example right now would be the groomer narrative, which we know like baselessly claims that queer folks and their allies are trying to recruit children into sexual acts. 0.78
00:06:45.220 We talked quite a bit about this in our opening episode this season with Nina Jankiewicz, how, you know, Tucker Carlson would spend hours talking about her on Fox News, never directly threatening her, but people would get the message. 0.74
00:07:00.180 You know, Trump did a lot of this where he would specifically call out black women or women of color journalists by name to his like fan base and followers, never saying, you know, harass this person, attack this person.
00:07:14.280 But it was a kind of a wink, wink, nudge, nudge thing where people would get the message pretty quickly.
00:07:19.480 Yeah, I thought it was a really interesting part of that GLAAD report that they called that out explicitly because I had never heard that term before, stochastic harassment. And it's so common now that we have a term for it, we see it everywhere.
00:07:36.200 Nina Jankiewicz was a great example where, you know, and Trump is a master of it, right, of never directly, explicitly calling for violence against a particular person, but talking about them in a way that just incites others to violence.
00:07:56.700 Yeah, I've definitely seen right-wing extremists are so good at this. They're so good at knowing what to say to have that sheen of plausible deniability where it's like, oh, well, I never said to attack so-and-so. I never said to storm the Capitol. I never said to do this.
00:08:15.160 But it's just like, well, here are 18 different examples where you've all but said that. So knowing how to stay right on that line is something that these folks are very good at. And that's something that the GLAAD report really spotlights, that folks are really utilizing this as a loophole in social media platforms' policies, which is contributing to the rising tide of anti-LGBTQ hate and legislation that we're all currently living through.
00:08:38.700 And so this is all very distressing. It's hard to hear. But it's good to have some insight into this. For a long time, we would only have social media companies and their PR leadership to be able to have any understanding of what's going on at these platforms.
00:08:57.780 And so having visibility into this is good because that's really going to be the first step of creating a better system where folks can show up and meaningfully make their voices heard on digital platforms, you know, the same way that all of us deserve to.
00:09:12.100 In public health, one of the things we say sometimes is that if you don't measure something, it doesn't exist. And so I think it's extremely valuable that GLAAD is measuring these policies with respect to how they protect LGBTQ people to show up online and how that contributes to an inclusive internet where we can all show up and enjoy the internet.
00:09:39.140 You know, who doesn't want to enjoy the Internet?
00:09:41.580 Exactly. And I do think that something that did not get enough attention is the very clear ways that Elon Musk's ownership of Twitter, the way that he's running Twitter, is connected to transphobia.
00:09:54.100 Court documents revealed that it was protecting the ability of the Babylon Bee to say a transphobic joke about Rachel Levine, who is a trans woman in the Biden administration.
00:10:06.400 That was the thing that first prompted him, like, I got to buy Twitter and make it a, quote, free speech haven.
00:10:13.920 And so he's been pretty clear that transphobia is a big part of his M.O.
00:10:19.100 And we, you know, I don't think I would be telling tales out of school to say that his ownership of Twitter has been a disaster by pretty much every metric.
00:10:28.600 He's losing money.
00:10:30.040 It's bleeding users.
00:10:31.320 People, it's not a fun place to show up anymore.
00:10:33.380 And I think that's the thing.
00:10:35.100 That's the gag about transphobia is that doubling down on transphobia is unpopular.
00:10:40.460 It makes everything worse, right? 0.98
00:10:42.800 It took a platform that was like not perfect, but like usable and made it garbage. Right. And so it really I hope that this is something that I want to see other business and tech leaders taking note that trafficking in transphobia is not just cruel and hateful and bigoted and all the things that we know it is, but also building a trying to build a community around transphobia is always going to fail. 0.82
00:11:09.060 And so I wish that we saw more reporting that tied Elon Musk's clear and explicit transphobia with his tanking of a, you know, of businesses and tanking of community and experience and vibes. 0.99
00:11:24.020 Listen, if I was throwing a party and a transphobe showed up and started spouting transphobe shit, of course it would kill the vibe and I would make them leave. 0.99
00:11:30.440 And so Elon Musk is throwing the party and he's the transphobe. 1.00
00:11:34.200 So, of course, the vibes are off.
00:11:36.400 Thank you for calling that out.
00:11:37.220 We don't acknowledge it enough to just say like, yeah, Elon Musk is a transphobic, his whole free speech thing. Transphobia is really at the center of it. It has been, you know, remember when he went out on stage in San Francisco at the Dave Chappelle concert, not concert, but comedy show, you know, comedy in scary quotes, whatever Dave Chappelle does now.
00:12:05.180 And people booed him like that's the common denominator of these folks. And it's just like not palatable. It's not interesting. It reminds me of Dennis Miller. Most of our listeners are probably too young to even remember him. But like his whole gag was that he was like a right wing comic and he would have these like right wing jokes. But it was all just punching down. And it's just it's not funny to punch down.
00:12:33.640 Oh, my God. I think about that Elon Musk and Dave Chappelle thing so often because I think it was it was either in Austin or in San Francisco, one or the other. I can't remember which one, but I can't think of an audience more primed to be sympathetic to Elon Musk's whole thing.
00:12:54.000 people who are going to see dave chappelle in 2023 or 2022 or whenever that happened in austin
00:13:01.380 or san francisco or wherever it was i think it was san francisco another thing about it i can't
00:13:05.720 think of an audience more primed to be like yeah we love elon musk and they booed him that's the
00:13:11.960 thing is like you know imagine hating trans people so much that you light 44 billion dollars on fire
00:13:18.180 like that really says a lot about who you are as a person and it's not bad enough that you need to 0.95
00:13:23.280 be a transphobe and be running a website into the ground. You also got to be like a vibe killer too.
00:13:28.480 Come on. It's too much. Pick a lane. Let's take a quick break.
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00:14:27.700 when i was 14 years old i was kidnapped and held captive for nine months i survived and i've spent
00:14:35.520 my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them i'm elizabeth smart
00:14:41.620 and these are the survivor files i just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying
00:14:49.200 shut up don't say anything every week i'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable
00:14:55.860 i knew if he woke up without a doubt he was going to hurt me i started feeling that there was 0.90
00:15:03.700 someone at the end of my bed and i just started screaming they are abducted stalked controlled
00:15:11.180 and nearly silenced but these aren't stories about what's taken from them they're stories
00:15:16.780 about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:15:19.760 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart
00:15:22.520 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
00:15:25.680 or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:15:33.140 And we're back.
00:15:35.860 Let's talk about women and gaming, 1.00
00:15:38.440 because it turns out, women be gaming. 0.99
00:15:42.380 More than half, 52% of all Nintendo Switch players
00:15:45.580 in the United States are women.
00:15:47.200 This is based on a new report from Serkana Player Pulse. 1.00
00:15:50.880 So women be gaming. 1.00
00:15:53.060 And Nintendo Switch ownership
00:15:54.400 is following a more broad trend in the United States
00:15:57.120 when compared to other gaming consoles too.
00:15:59.920 So Nintendo Switch does have the highest amount
00:16:02.100 of female users at 52%,
00:16:03.960 but 50% of gaming PCs are also owned by women.
00:16:08.100 The next closest is the Xbox series
00:16:10.460 with 45% of those being owned by women.
00:16:13.060 PlayStation 5 is the lowest at 41%.
00:16:15.380 This year in the United States, 47% of console video game players were women, and half of
00:16:21.380 all PC video game players are women, and 54% of mobile video game players are women.
00:16:26.700 So guess who is not thrilled about all this, Mike? 0.97
00:16:29.940 Is it the shittiest segment of the American public?
00:16:33.380 Yes, gamer guys.
00:16:34.880 Not all gamer guys, but a very specific type of gamer guy is not thrilled about this, and
00:16:42.400 is really working overtime to poke holes in these findings.
00:16:46.220 So when Matt Piscatella, the executive director of Serkana, tweeted out these stats showing
00:16:51.060 how women were into gaming, he had these angry dudes in his mentions whose whole worlds were
00:16:57.020 being shattered by the idea that women make up a big part of the gaming market, in some 0.74
00:17:00.920 cases more than men.
00:17:02.260 So I would say that the replies really fell into a couple of buckets.
00:17:06.240 First was this idea that, you know, taking issue with the methodology, saying that since
00:17:11.940 men are far too busy being, I don't know, titans of industry or whatever. They don't have time for
00:17:17.360 silly surveys. So that survey itself and all surveys are skewed toward women because only 1.00
00:17:23.480 a woman would take a survey. As somebody who does a lot of surveys for a living, what do you think
00:17:28.100 about that, Mike? Well, Bridget, as someone who does a lot of surveys for a living, I think it's
00:17:34.260 stupid. That was very emphatic. I appreciated how emphatic that was. Another is that the data 1.00
00:17:42.480 couldn't possibly be correct, because if there are really so many women playing video games out
00:17:48.420 there, why haven't these guys found them and, like, I don't know, made contact with them? Which, 1.00
00:17:55.220 yeah, I can kind of imagine why these women aren't going out of their way to buddy up with
00:17:58.760 these guys who sound so charming. Probably the most infuriating bucket of the responses from
00:18:04.440 men who could not believe this idea that women are playing games is that women don't play real
00:18:10.400 games. Like there was some conversation about the games that women are playing, like The Sims,
00:18:16.480 are not real games, but the games that men play. They're something else. And that really reminds
00:18:22.000 me of this classic George Carlin routine that I'm sure I've talked about on the show,
00:18:25.680 that I've probably gotten more wisdom and use out of than anything I've ever read in any kind
00:18:31.740 of history book or philosophy book or anything. You ever notice how your shit is stuff and 0.99
00:18:36.060 everybody else's stuff is shit? It's like, oh no, I'm a man. So whatever games those women are 1.00
00:18:41.760 playing, they're not real games. The only real games are the games that I play because only 1.00
00:18:46.060 the things that I engage in are real and worthy of any kind of like intellectual rigor.
00:18:51.360 I hate the adjective real. I feel it is code for others, like dehumanized others, like real gamers, real games, real Americans, real men. It's like a vacuous term that doesn't actually have any meaning other than them versus us.
00:19:18.060 totally absolutely and like some of the tweets i saw i saw one that was like half of the women who
00:19:24.580 responded to this survey are probably wine moms playing candy crush on their ipad or things like
00:19:31.580 that and it's like what difference does it make you know if you're trying to get a landscape of
00:19:35.560 who is playing games and who is making up this industry in like who is representative of the
00:19:39.760 space what difference does it make what they're playing what difference does it make like i don't
00:19:43.580 know it just it just seems like such a weird arbitrary distinction and it's a way of like
00:19:50.600 creating a hierarchy where there is none right because it's not like if you're playing call of
00:19:55.560 duty that game is so highfalutin that oh my god like it's the you know most philosophical game
00:20:00.980 out there or something like it's just another i mean it's honestly just misogyny it's another way
00:20:05.220 to dress up misogyny and say that the things that women enjoy the things that women that are bringing
00:20:10.600 women joy, the way that women are spending their time when they're gaming is worse than, less
00:20:16.020 worthy than, less worthy of scrutiny and, you know, looking at less serious than what men are 0.97
00:20:22.320 doing. It's just misogyny. And, you know, I honestly am not surprised by this data. Most of
00:20:28.100 my friends who are women play some kind of game. I think a lot of them do have Nintendo Switches. 0.92
00:20:33.320 I would love to own a Switch. Nintendo, if you are listening, you can send me a Switch. I will
00:20:38.140 happily make content about it. So there is a historical precedence of this. As journalist
00:20:43.980 Zach Zewin points out, writing, Barbie fashion designer outsold Doom and Quake in 1996 and was
00:20:51.300 the ninth best-selling PC game of that year. Of course, women were also playing Doom and Quake
00:20:56.700 back then too. So angry dudes online maybe stop acting so defensive and shitty about games being 0.95
00:21:02.640 played by women and instead realize that they've always been here. And if you feel like they're 0.67
00:21:06.760 hiding from you, maybe ask yourself why that is. And so I love that as a response. And I think
00:21:13.460 it's really about the gaming industry catching up with this information that we have. If nearly
00:21:19.520 half of gaming consumers are women, then it is imperative that gaming companies act like it 0.94
00:21:24.520 and catch up and make sure that these platforms are places where everyone, all of their consumers 0.99
00:21:30.000 can safely show up to have things like better safeguards against harassment or more gender
00:21:36.080 inclusive games, right? So I think for me, it's really about the people who have power in the
00:21:40.880 space, recognizing the reality of who makes up that space, who their consumers and who their
00:21:46.200 demographic actually is. And according to this data, it's a lot of women because women be gaming. 0.84
00:21:51.880 Yeah, women be gaming. There's so many domains where this sort of like misogynistic gatekeeping 1.00
00:21:59.000 plays out. But one nice thing about video games is that there are very well-defined metrics of
00:22:07.140 success, right? And that metric is money, right? How much money do you make from the sale of your
00:22:14.420 game? And games that appeal to women, it turns out, sell so many more copies than games that
00:22:23.700 do not appeal to women, because there's a lot of women in the world, right? Like I was just looking
00:22:28.340 it up animal crossing is a game that a lot of women i know like a lot of men i know like it's
00:22:33.720 not a gendered game right like you're not uh yeah it's just it's just like a fun game that a lot of
00:22:39.680 my friends really love i just looked it up it made like a quarter billion dollars in the past couple
00:22:45.980 of years that's so much money i mean like this gets into like a whole other it's a whole other
00:22:50.940 topic, but I have seen and I have so many examples where industries would rather leave
00:22:58.260 money, good money, on the table than not be misogynistic and not, you know, not perpetuate
00:23:07.240 misogyny and racism and all of the bad isms, right? Like, you know, look at Blizzard. Look at
00:23:15.160 their, you know, their lawsuit where it sounded like for women working at the uber popular video 0.86
00:23:21.680 game company, Blizzard, it sounded like a terrible environment. And it's like, if you are a company
00:23:26.840 that is producing a product that half of your consumer base are women, that you just can't, 1.00
00:23:33.240 you just can't run a company like that. But I think that there are definitely other incentives 1.00
00:23:39.080 than money that these people have. And I think that people are very entrenched in and bought
00:23:44.740 into the idea that this is a boys club, they're not women around. And so even if that's not true, 0.99
00:23:49.120 even if all the evidence is showing them that's not true, even if they can make more money by
00:23:53.700 acknowledging that reality, the siren song of misogyny and perpetuating it in that industry
00:24:00.940 is just too much to resist. This is a weird moment in the history of there are no girls
00:24:09.260 on the internet, Bridget, because it's like, I feel like you and me are both being like,
00:24:13.520 yes, capitalism, that is what will free us from the chains of misogyny. I don't know,
00:24:20.280 there's a lot of damn women out there, right? It's almost incompatible with a system where 1.00
00:24:27.140 women are just devalued and locked out. Yeah. Welcome to patriarchy. It harms everyone. 1.00
00:24:35.040 It doesn't just harm the people who are its targets, women. It harms us all. It keeps us 0.59
00:24:39.380 all back from innovation. We did a great episode about how misogyny and bias and, you know,
00:24:45.920 really rigid, incorrect thinking around gender stifles innovation. And it does. It harms us all.
00:24:53.580 Yeah, it really does. And like, what does it say about the people who really cling to the misogyny
00:24:59.200 that like they value it so much that they're willing to throw away innovation, inclusivity,
00:25:07.160 a larger market share, everything in order to protect a gender hierarchy.
00:25:15.200 And like, what happened to them? 1.00
00:25:18.040 I mean, misogyny is a hell of a drug.
00:25:20.560 Let's talk about this story down in Georgia, where a radio host is suing OpenAI for defamation
00:25:25.900 because of something a chatbot said about him.
00:25:28.560 So last week, a radio host in Georgia filed the first, but probably not the last lawsuit
00:25:33.540 against OpenAI, the company who created ChatGPT.
00:25:36.640 over false statements that ChatGPT made about him.
00:25:40.680 This is actually a pretty notable case,
00:25:42.300 partly just because it's so novel and interesting,
00:25:44.980 and partly because it connects to two themes
00:25:47.180 that we've been talking about a lot
00:25:48.260 on this season of the podcast.
00:25:49.660 One, the fact that AI is making it harder to tell
00:25:52.400 what's real from what's fake,
00:25:53.980 and two, the fact that we know that legal frameworks
00:25:56.580 are necessary and are going to be necessary going forward
00:25:59.420 since it's clear that platforms and tech companies
00:26:01.640 cannot be trusted to police themselves.
00:26:03.580 In this case, ChatGPT just completely made up a bunch of negative, slimy, grimy lies about this radio host.
00:26:12.280 ChatGPT confidently stated that he had been the treasurer of an advocacy organization until he was forced to resign following a lawsuit over misappropriation of funds.
00:26:22.460 Except none of that ever happened. 0.94
00:26:24.660 It was just a made-up thing that ChatGPT pulled out of its computer butt, I guess I'll say.
00:26:31.320 He was never the treasurer of that organization.
00:26:33.960 He was never accused of embezzling funds.
00:26:35.700 And he was never part of that lawsuit.
00:26:37.720 ChatGPT just made it up.
00:26:39.640 So you've probably seen stories about ChatGPT hallucinating.
00:26:43.720 That's what it's called when ChatGPT spits out facts that are not true, like getting math problems wrong or saying that planets have extra moons or just getting basic facts wrong.
00:26:53.900 Most of these hallucinations are kind of funny.
00:26:56.440 It's easy to laugh at them.
00:26:57.480 And if nothing else, they provide kind of a smug piece of evidence that maybe AI isn't going to displace us all after all.
00:27:04.960 But this one is different because it wasn't a hallucination about some abstract fact.
00:27:10.020 It was about a specific person who exists.
00:27:13.420 And based on this person's lawsuit, that person is pissed.
00:27:18.300 So it raises a good question.
00:27:19.960 Are tech companies responsible for false statements made by their AI chatbots?
00:27:25.440 Hopefully from this lawsuit, we will find out.
00:27:27.820 And personally, I'm hoping that the answer is yes, because our information ecosystem
00:27:32.000 is already overflowing with mis- and disinformation.
00:27:35.460 We can't just say it's okay for big tech companies to add more fake information on
00:27:40.320 top of that information economy with impunity.
00:27:43.280 You know, there needs to be standards, there needs to be accountability, especially when
00:27:47.160 specific living people are harmed by this technology.
00:27:50.980 Bridget, I'm so glad you brought this story up.
00:27:53.260 I love this story.
00:27:54.640 i'm so interested in it i can't wait to see what comes of it you know last week and i think maybe
00:28:01.880 in the week before we were talking about this idea of how with all this generative ai it's
00:28:09.940 increasingly difficult to tell fact from fiction uh and this feels like one route to try to
00:28:20.900 restore the importance of fact, right? And protect against the proliferation of fake
00:28:29.500 information that makes it harder to know what's real. So speaking of fact versus fiction,
00:28:36.740 can you guess a platform that is currently cashing in, raking in that sweet, sweet dough
00:28:43.280 from fiction? Ashley Madison. Google. It turns out that Google is cashing in from fake clinics.
00:28:54.120 This is according to a new report from the Center for Countering Digital Hate, which found that
00:28:58.400 Google made more than $10 million over the past two years from ads for crisis pregnancy centers.
00:29:05.380 If you don't know what crisis pregnancy centers are, they're basically anti-choice clinics that
00:29:09.740 try to convince people not to have abortions. But they often do so by masquerading as real
00:29:15.600 medical facilities or clinics, which they are not. But because they're not clinics,
00:29:19.760 they're often just basically unregulated outfits. Their primary goal is to prevent
00:29:24.980 people from getting abortions. They'll sometimes give out really unscientific,
00:29:29.120 sometimes harmful medical advice, or make lofty promises of services that they can provide for
00:29:34.300 somebody after they have a baby. Ultimately, their goal is to waste the time of the person
00:29:39.200 who is pregnant so that they can no longer obtain an abortion within the window of legality.
00:29:43.560 So essentially, tricking folks into carrying the pregnancy to term even if they don't want to.
00:29:48.680 Because they are not real medical facilities, they're unregulated, which means that they're
00:29:52.340 not subject to data privacy and patient confidentiality laws that govern legitimate
00:29:56.840 medical facilities. So listen to this. The Center for Countering Digital Hate found that 188 crisis
00:30:02.640 pregnancy centers placed ads on Google worth an estimated total of more than $10 million over 10
00:30:08.600 years. Now, obviously, there was a major spike in advertising about six months before the Supreme
00:30:13.720 Court's decision on Roe versus Wade. Many of these fake clinics are registered as 501c3
00:30:19.680 nonprofit organizations. And that means that they get to take advantage of Google's ad grant program,
00:30:24.540 which allows qualifying nonprofits to get up to $10,000 worth of ads for free per month.
00:30:31.020 So it's really just like a scam. They're able to, for free, put ads on Google that are filled
00:30:39.080 with lies and harmful, inaccurate information about abortion. And then Google makes money
00:30:45.920 from that. It's just like a scam on top of a scam on top of a scam.
00:30:49.960 Those pregnancy crisis centers, I feel like we've been talking about them for years. They were
00:30:56.940 a genius move by the anti-choice forces because they just like skirt under the radar of like
00:31:07.740 so many things and they seem so benign and not even benign but like benevolent but they're bad
00:31:15.180 they're bad and the fact that google is essentially making money from propping up
00:31:22.060 their badness and allowing them to do it for essentially, if not for free, probably not for
00:31:28.520 that much money if they're getting $10,000 worth of ads for free. This is really telling. I described
00:31:33.140 these a moment ago as scams, but it really is like, think of the scammiest SEO practices that
00:31:40.380 you have ever encountered. When you are Googling something and the first thing that comes up,
00:31:45.260 you click on it and you're like, oh wait, it's a scammy, spammy ad. And then they do that thing
00:31:49.160 where like to click out of it,
00:31:50.700 the X is really hard to click
00:31:52.120 and then you try to click it
00:31:52.920 and then you actually click into it.
00:31:54.040 And then like,
00:31:54.700 think of like the scammiest internet stuff 1.00
00:31:56.940 that drives you out of your fucking mind. 0.99
00:31:59.580 That's what these clinics are doing 1.00
00:32:00.880 and Google is allowing them to do that.
00:32:02.700 Center for Digital Hate
00:32:03.600 found that several marketing firms
00:32:05.120 help these fake clinics
00:32:06.340 hijack search keywords
00:32:08.000 to ensure that their content appears
00:32:09.880 next to legitimate
00:32:10.760 reproductive health information.
00:32:12.440 So if you Google something
00:32:13.400 that is a obvious keyword
00:32:15.540 for somebody looking for an abortion,
00:32:17.060 like I needed an abortion
00:32:18.000 or pregnant and scared help, you might find results that mix real health information alongside
00:32:24.480 these fake clinics, which are peddling harmful lies. And the fact that we're talking about this
00:32:29.860 with Google is a really big deal. 93% of all searches worldwide happen on Google. And when
00:32:35.860 someone doesn't know what to do, or they find themselves in a situation where they need answers
00:32:39.860 and they're looking to the internet, odds are the first thing they're going to do is a Google search.
00:32:44.780 And when they do that search, they should not be served up lies. And certainly Google should not be profiting off of those lies. Like it is an economy. It is a scam economy of lies and grifts. And Google is cashing in on it.
00:32:59.060 And it really takes me back to something that Ifomo Uzoma, who, you know, formerly worked at Pinterest combating medical misinformation, a lot of which was misinformation around abortion.
00:33:08.160 She always says that these people, these extremists who are pushing lies about abortion, they are scammers and spammers, and they have built an industry of lies for profit.
00:33:17.600 And Google, as the country's number one search platform, should not be in the business of amplifying these lies, and they certainly should not be in the business of profiting from it.
00:33:28.080 Yeah, this it doesn't feel so terrible, but like these are some of the more disgusting actors that we've talked about on this show because they are preying on people who are at their most vulnerable, often young, probably terrified if they have suddenly discovered that they are unintendedly pregnant and looking for some kind of like information about what the hell to do and to deceive people at that moment.
00:33:58.080 is terrible yeah it's it's infuriating and the fact that google is profiting off it to such an
00:34:08.120 extent uh is not surprising but shameful it is shameful and if you're the biggest search engine
00:34:16.420 in the world some responsibility comes with that and you should be in the business of amplifying
00:34:21.440 actual information and not lies and scams. Some of the lies that these fake clinics are pushing
00:34:28.480 are actually dangerous and harmful. Things like telling people that they can have their
00:34:33.700 medication abortions reversed and telling them to take certain medications to reverse
00:34:39.460 pill-based abortion, which can harm them, and also is not true. Google should not be in a place where
00:34:46.360 they are amplifying these lies and certainly not making money off of it. I mean, it's really
00:34:50.880 ghoulish. Speaking of ghoulish, let's talk about Tesla. So this report, like people should read
00:34:56.580 the whole report because I found myself gasping each paragraph. I was like, oh God, oh God, oh
00:35:03.420 God. It just got worse and worse. So a new report from the Washington Post says that there have been
00:35:08.660 736 crashes in the U.S. since 2019 involving Teslas in autopilot mode, which is far more than
00:35:16.000 previously reported. According to the report, the number of crashes has surged in the last four
00:35:20.460 years because of the increase of the number of Teslas on the road. Some of these crashes sound
00:35:25.060 pretty serious. The number of deaths and serious injuries associated with autopilot has also grown
00:35:31.080 significantly. When authorities first released a partial counting of accidents involving autopilot
00:35:35.920 in June of 2022, they counted only three deaths definitively linked to this technology. But the
00:35:41.260 most recent data includes 17 fatal incidents, 11 of them happening since May of 2022, and five
00:35:47.500 serious injuries. So you might be asking, why is the number of crashes so much higher
00:35:51.980 now than was previously reported? Well, we know all of this because of a 2021 federal order that
00:35:57.800 the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, which is the country's top auto safety regulator,
00:36:03.080 required automakers to disclose crashes involving driver assistance technology.
00:36:07.340 Now, I should say that the total number of crashes involving this technology
00:36:10.720 is really small compared to all road accidents, but it's still pretty troubling. Now, since this
00:36:16.660 new reporting requirements were introduced, we now know that the vast majority of the 807
00:36:21.500 automation-related crashes have involved Teslas, and it's linked to almost all deaths involving
00:36:27.020 automation, in part because Tesla has experimented much more aggressively with automation than other
00:36:31.860 car makers have. The uptick in crashes also coincides with Tesla's aggressive rollout of
00:36:36.640 full self-driving mode, which has expanded from about 12,000 users to nearly 400,000 users in a
00:36:43.220 little more than a year. And this is not just Tesla either. After a mass shooting in San Francisco,
00:36:48.780 there was a video of a Cruz, which is General Motors' line of driverless cars, blocking first
00:36:54.560 responders from being able to administer aid to the victims. In the video, you can see the police
00:36:59.340 screaming about this. He is screaming, you know, that this driverless car is blocking emergency
00:37:05.260 medical and fire. They need to get it out of there. In another video, you can hear an officer
00:37:09.280 worrying that the car might crash into an ambulance or a fire truck when they're trying
00:37:12.820 to get out. So General Motors has said that although the vehicle did stop at the crime scene,
00:37:18.860 the car did not actually obstruct any emergency vehicles. They said our car initially stopped as
00:37:23.880 it was approaching an active emergency scene, then proceeded to perform a U-turn and pull over.
00:37:28.220 Throughout this time, all vehicles, including emergency response vehicles, were able to proceed
00:37:32.340 around our car. Emergency personnel in San Francisco seemed to more or less confirm this.
00:37:38.080 they told SFGate that the car did not technically obstruct emergency vehicles because another road
00:37:44.500 happened to be available that was in an adjoining lane that they could use to get around this
00:37:48.440 driverless car. But honestly, they didn't sound too thrilled that this was something they had
00:37:53.080 to navigate in order to help nine people who had just been shot. And it's pretty clear, like,
00:37:57.960 had this been a car with a human, a human would have been able to be like, oh, this is an active
00:38:03.580 emergency scene, let me immediately do a quick U-turn or whatever. But because it was driverless,
00:38:09.840 there wasn't a real protocol of what to do or how to move it. They're just very lucky that there was
00:38:15.040 an available lane in order to maneuver around this car. So Elon Musk argues that autopilot
00:38:20.120 is safer than human drivers and that the use of autopilot will usher in a safer, virtually
00:38:25.540 accident-free future. In a March presentation, Tesla claimed that cars in full self-driving mode
00:38:31.960 crashes at a rate of at least one-fifth that of vehicles with normal driving
00:38:36.120 in a comparison of miles driven per collision.
00:38:39.040 But that claim and Musk's characterization of autopilot as unequivocally safer
00:38:43.800 is impossible to test without access to the detailed data that Tesla possesses.
00:38:48.480 So it's basically impossible to say how many accidents this technology has diverted.
00:38:54.080 But what is super clear is how dangerous it is to be testing this out
00:38:57.860 on actual roads with the public because it is killing people.
00:39:01.960 So I didn't know this. I don't drive a Tesla because I'm a broke bitch, but I was reading this and I was thinking, surely they're not just out here testing out full self-driving mode with just regular motorists on our public road and making anybody who exists out in public, they're a Tesla's guinea pig. But I'm sorry to say that is kind of exactly what is happening. 0.87
00:39:26.520 more after a quick break
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00:40:20.600 That's 844-844-IHART.
00:40:23.840 When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.
00:40:29.300 I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.
00:40:35.680 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.
00:40:39.380 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, 0.96
00:40:44.800 shut up, don't say anything.
00:40:47.460 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. 0.98
00:40:52.000 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.
00:40:56.580 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.
00:41:04.000 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:41:07.960 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.
00:41:11.400 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:41:14.540 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:41:28.380 Let's get right back into it.
00:41:30.940 So if you don't drive a Tesla, here's what you need to know.
00:41:34.280 Teslas have three modes.
00:41:36.140 One is autopilot, which is standard on all Teslas, which has intelligent cruise control that matches the car to the speed of the surrounding traffic.
00:41:43.720 and a lane centering function that helps keep the vehicle in the center of its lane.
00:41:47.960 Then there is enhanced autopilot, which adds navigating highway on and off ramps and interchanges
00:41:54.180 on top of what autopilot does. It also adds a self-parking system and a summon feature
00:42:00.140 that lets owners call the car to them at parking lot speed from nearby.
00:42:04.280 And lastly, full self-driving, which Tesla says will do all of the above, but also read and react
00:42:11.140 to traffic lights and stop signs and steer around some terms with the driver's, quote,
00:42:16.200 active supervision. Now, according to Tesla's own website, full self-driving mode is still
00:42:21.920 being tested out. It's still in beta. It is not fully ready to go. The Tesla website says a full
00:42:27.180 self-driving mode. This feature is in beta and may not stop for all traffic controls.
00:42:33.400 Yeah, that's pretty scary. This is from Blue Book. The term test would seem to suggest some
00:42:40.120 sort of laboratory conditions or controlled experiment with close monitoring. But that's
00:42:44.480 not how Tesla is testing the software. Instead, it's allowing owners to use it on public roads
00:42:49.560 with the rest of us as if it were a finished product. Now, Tesla does require owners to sign
00:42:55.420 a waiver to use this mode, but what about the rest of us? You know, I never consented to or
00:43:00.780 opted into being, whenever I was out on a public roadway, being part of Elon Musk's text kitchen
00:43:07.600 on whether or not this technology is safe.
00:43:10.580 Yeah, I'm so curious what the content of that waiver is.
00:43:14.120 Like, what is being waived?
00:43:15.680 What sort of liability is the owner assuming?
00:43:19.460 Like, is the owner of the Tesla just deciding
00:43:22.660 or just like taking on all liability to themselves?
00:43:27.500 Because yeah, like, what about you and me
00:43:29.540 who don't own a Tesla?
00:43:31.240 We're just out there walking around,
00:43:33.880 driving around being at risk. What does this test status of full self-driving mode mean for us?
00:43:42.860 The report speaks to a young person who is really lucky to be alive after Tesla using this
00:43:50.140 technology crashed into him. I think he fractured his neck and was on a ventilator and still has a
00:43:55.800 lot of issues. I think he's from North Carolina. And it is really scary. And I think it really
00:44:01.160 speaks to this idea that we talk about a lot, which is this very messed up relationship between
00:44:06.520 the people who make this technology and the public. Like, we should not have to be unpaid
00:44:11.220 lab rats in this experiment with potentially harmful or deadly consequences just because
00:44:17.740 Elon Musk says it's cool. I don't think that's very cool. I never signed up for that. Before we
00:44:23.020 go, I want to talk about this interesting poll that I read in Fast Company. So according to a
00:44:27.120 new Harris poll shared exclusively with Fast Company, most Americans would prefer to live in
00:44:32.540 eras before the rise of things like social media, smartphones, and the internet. This sentiment is
00:44:38.560 particularly true for older millennials and Gen Xers. When asked if they would like to return to
00:44:43.940 a time before smartphones and social media, 77% of Americans aged 35 to 54 said yes, the highest of
00:44:51.520 any group. So you might be thinking, oh, like these people are just nostalgic because they're
00:44:57.260 old enough to remember, you know, using pay phones and, you know, wired internet and all of the
00:45:04.540 things that you and I talk about because we're old, right? But that's actually, that might be
00:45:08.120 some of it, but it actually might not be totally the case because according to this poll, even
00:45:13.760 younger people who have no memory of a world before social media indicated that they would
00:45:18.320 like to return to the pre-internet vibe. That's 63% of 18 to 34-year-olds agreed with that idea
00:45:24.520 versus only 37% who disagreed. So I don't actually find that surprising at all. But can you guess
00:45:31.340 the demographic who are most likely to be like, actually, I like how things are right now. I don't
00:45:37.740 want to go back to the pre-social media days. I can't. Baby boomers. So baby boomers do not share
00:45:44.980 that feeling. Only 60% of people over the age of 55 say that they would like to return to those
00:45:50.580 times. And this does not surprise me at all. My mom loves Facebook. You know, she's completely
00:45:57.560 obsessed with it. I think that baby boomers love the internet. Like, who is keeping Facebook afloat 0.84
00:46:04.280 in 2023? It's baby boomers. Yeah, I guess that's right. It's a weird way to think about it. 1.00
00:46:12.340 So what's interesting is that overwhelmingly, all people still feel like technology is important.
00:46:18.520 90% said that being open-minded about new tech is important, a finding that is held up across all the demographics that they looked at.
00:46:25.360 And I think that's really telling.
00:46:26.600 Like, I almost think that what that shows is that people are just really tired.
00:46:33.860 I think as we're seeing, like, the cost of being connected all the time and being, like, hyper aware of what that feels like, being connected via technology all the time, and the ways that tech is becoming even more entrenched in our daily lives, it's like we don't like it, but we're aware of it.
00:46:52.320 And it's this kind of, like, resignation that we're going to have to accept it, right? Like, we're going to have to accept that these digital tools and experiences are part of our lives, whether we like it or not. And it turns out we don't really like it that much. Like, I almost see this as a kind of like, I don't know, I find it interesting that people don't like this.
00:47:12.020 They yearn for a time, even sometimes in the case of young people, a time that they never
00:47:17.300 even experienced before social media, but they understand the importance of keeping
00:47:21.640 up with technology.
00:47:23.440 It makes you wonder if there is a difference in appreciating the costs of what has been
00:47:30.580 lost and like what we have to deal with.
00:47:33.240 Like we talk on this show all the time about this information climate we live in where
00:47:38.220 there's like so much disinformation and we were talking about stochastic harassment earlier where
00:47:44.980 people are just like repeating harmful hateful narratives that are just sufficiently under the
00:47:52.740 radar that they don't violate terms of service of social media platforms uh and it feels like
00:47:59.220 that's just like normal and how it is and like you know with with ai we've talked a lot about the
00:48:04.840 how it's increasingly difficult to separate fact from fiction and as we look into the future it's
00:48:10.660 probably only going to get harder and that doesn't feel good it doesn't make me feel like we're going
00:48:16.040 to be approaching a future where things are better than they are now uh and you know no offense to 0.96
00:48:24.840 baby boomers but maybe they're just not like as clued in to all of these harms i don't know 0.60
00:48:30.800 And it really takes me back to the conversation that I had with Paris Marks from the podcast Tech Won't Save Us around who are the tech leaders who are building what our future looks like for all of us.
00:48:43.680 And when they think about what a good life looks like, a full, meaningful life, what that looks like, what that entails, are they thinking about the same thing that the rest of us are thinking about?
00:48:53.800 Because Paris made a great point.
00:48:55.680 Probably not.
00:48:56.380 A lot of these people who are designing what our futures are going to look like probably have a very different idea about what a good future looks like versus what I think or what people listening, 90% of us might think.
00:49:06.060 And so when they are the ones who are in charge of using technology and building technology to build that future, we've got to really ask, like, who put them in charge?
00:49:14.600 If the majority of us from all these different demographics are wanting to go back to a time before social media, before technology was where it is, before the rise of the ubiquity of the Internet, that really says something.
00:49:27.420 I almost feel like it's kind of a positive thing because I hope that the people who build technology are really listening and paying attention to what the rest of us are saying.
00:49:36.460 because people don't want futures where we're increasingly being asked to give more and more
00:49:42.000 of ourselves, our experiences, our time, our energy, our data to technology companies to make
00:49:47.820 some tech billionaire a little bit richer. We are exhausted. Every drop of us, anything that we have
00:49:55.240 has already been taken in mind from us. We are exhausted. We cannot give anymore. I think that
00:49:59.920 that's what people are responding to. I think that people are tired. They want to slow down.
00:50:03.920 They are craving connection. They are craving real experiences. And I think that tech leaders should be listening and not just trying to fill that gap with more tech, with more screens, with more extractive policies and, you know, mining from us.
00:50:21.540 because I don't think that's making us happy.
00:50:25.480 And I think that it's, I hope that they're really listening
00:50:29.280 because I think that what I'm hearing from this poll
00:50:31.760 is that people want better for themselves,
00:50:35.320 for their futures, for all of us.
00:50:37.260 And God, I hope that people who make technology are listening.
00:50:40.420 Thanks so much for being here, Mike,
00:50:41.800 to walk through these stories.
00:50:43.240 And thanks to everyone for listening.
00:50:45.300 If you want more ad-free stories like this,
00:50:48.380 please check out our Patreon.
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00:50:59.500 You do not have to be a subscriber or pay to vote in the poll and see the post that I'm talking about, although while you're there, you could.
00:51:05.320 Thank you so much for listening.
00:51:06.640 I will see you next time.
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00:51:16.500 Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi?
00:51:21.040 You can reach us at hello at tangody.com.
00:51:23.400 You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangody.com.
00:51:26.720 There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by me, Bridget Todd.
00:51:29.440 It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.
00:51:32.080 Edited by Joey Pat.
00:51:33.900 Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer.
00:51:36.140 Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer.
00:51:38.760 Michael Amato is our contributing producer.
00:51:40.760 I'm your host, Bridget Todd.
00:51:42.240 If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts.
00:51:44.500 For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:52:14.500 controlled, and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:52:20.700 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
00:52:26.480 or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally
00:52:31.080 important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club,
00:52:37.540 part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level
00:52:41.680 of discourse each week we're connecting the dots between books the internet and pop culture
00:52:46.200 with your favorite writers book talk creators and plenty of overthought opinions
00:52:50.780 listen to pro society on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts
00:52:58.280 honey is it on is it on is this thing recording this is your girl t.s madison coming to you loud
00:53:03.700 live and always and forever in color from the outlaws podcast with me t.s madison this week
00:53:08.380 Laverne Cox is back.
00:53:10.500 We're talking about her new book,
00:53:12.120 her controversial ex,
00:53:13.380 and going off on the red carpet.
00:53:15.580 20 minutes later, he was like,
00:53:16.760 let's squash this, let's talk about it.
00:53:17.880 I was like, no, you do not talk to me like that.
00:53:21.040 That is unacceptable.
00:53:22.560 I walked in and I was like, we need to break up.
00:53:24.020 And can you ever really change a man?
00:53:26.640 Listen to Outlaws with T.S. Madison
00:53:28.360 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
00:53:31.100 or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:53:33.240 This is an iHeart Podcast.
00:53:35.820 Guaranteed human.