There Are No Girls on the Internet - February 10, 2023


De-influencing 101： Stuff Mom Never Told You

Topics
TikTok sleuths investigations de-influencing de-influencing social media
Celebrating Black history by preserving our voices - BEST OF TANGOTI #OscarsSoWhite with April Reign and Dr. Jon Paul

Episode Stats


Length

53 minutes

Words per minute

186.79

Word count

9,947

Sentence count

578

Harmful content

Misogyny

29

sentences flagged

Toxicity

9

sentences flagged

Hate speech

21

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.
00:00:02.580 Guaranteed human.
00:00:05.140 Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Crave, Netflix, and Disney Plus
00:00:08.720 from $94 a month.
00:00:10.160 Price guaranteed for two years on Internet
00:00:12.040 with a two-year term and auto-pay credit.
00:00:14.400 Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability.
00:00:17.180 Bell. Connection is everything.
00:00:19.620 Run a business and not thinking about podcasting?
00:00:21.880 Think again.
00:00:22.520 More Americans listen to podcasts
00:00:23.980 than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora.
00:00:26.680 And as the number one podcaster,
00:00:28.060 iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined.
00:00:30.820 Learn how podcasting can help your business.
00:00:32.640 Call 844-844-IHEART.
00:00:35.380 With DashPass by DoorDash, there's no delivery fee.
00:00:39.300 Is that your way of telling me you want a burrito?
00:00:42.200 Does it look like I want a burrito?
00:00:44.500 It looks like you're a blanket burrito.
00:00:46.280 Who wants a burrito?
00:00:48.400 You get me.
00:00:50.140 Order without the drama.
00:00:51.180 Get no delivery fee with DashPass.
00:00:53.060 Eligible orders only.
00:00:54.020 Other fees and terms apply.
00:00:59.060 There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.
00:01:07.160 I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.
00:01:12.420 We are popping in again from hiatus to have a much-needed conversation all about de-influencing.
00:01:19.200 If you're on TikTok, you have probably already seen content about de-influencing,
00:01:23.700 which is pretty much exactly what it sounds like, where influencing tries to influence you to buy
00:01:29.180 certain things. De-influencing says, wait a minute, actually, do you need to buy another
00:01:34.240 water bottle when you already have five in your cabinet? I am fascinated by the phenomena that
00:01:39.800 is de-influencing. And more importantly, what this de-influencing trend says about our current
00:01:45.280 social and economic climate. So I joined my friends, Samantha and Annie over at the podcast
00:01:50.700 stuff mom never told you to dig into de-influencing and why we are seeing it all over our social
00:01:55.820 media feeds. So I hope you enjoy. I have a theory that especially during times that are like
00:02:03.480 turbulent or uncertain, the pandemic would definitely fit into this. Many of us, myself,
00:02:08.940 very, very much included, really turn to online shopping for a quick serotonin boost or a quick,
00:02:14.600 you know, this is going to feel good. Or like, I got into this habit of enjoying the feeling of
00:02:20.000 kind of giving myself Christmas every day, like, oh, there's going to be, when I come home,
00:02:24.580 there's going to be a present waiting for me, you know, from past me. And so this is not just my
00:02:29.560 theory. I do have a little bit of research to back it up. People really leaned into online
00:02:32.820 shopping during the pandemic. According to the most recent 2020 annual retail trade survey release
00:02:37.420 from the census, e-commerce sales increased by $244.2 billion, or 43% in 2020, the first year
00:02:47.120 the pandemic, rising from $571.2 billion in 2019 to $815.4 billion in 2020. And people,
00:02:56.280 again, myself very shamefully included, really relied on online retailers specifically like
00:03:03.300 Amazon. Unsurprisingly, Amazon stock hit a new all-time high during 2020. And it's only
00:03:09.320 now, like pretty recently, starting to fall from that huge boost during the beginning of the
00:03:14.600 pandemic. And a quick disclaimer here that, like, I just feel the need to say that obviously,
00:03:20.560 you know, we're going to be talking about our online shopping habits, but there are a whole
00:03:24.680 bunch of folks who rely on online shopping for very legitimate real reasons. Folks with disabilities
00:03:30.540 or chronic illnesses, you know, for them, online shopping can be a lifeline. Being a swamped parent
00:03:35.880 or a caregiver who can't always, you know, pop out to the store for one thing, it's also a reason
00:03:40.960 why somebody might really, really lean on online shopping.
00:03:43.800 I don't want to make it seem like
00:03:44.800 anybody who is pressing buy online
00:03:47.680 is just leaning into bad habits
00:03:51.200 that they should question.
00:03:52.400 So I'm not talking about those folks.
00:03:54.320 I'm really talking about the quick purchase of things
00:03:57.100 that you really don't need
00:03:58.360 or maybe even really don't want
00:04:00.000 because an algorithm on social media told you to do so.
00:04:03.560 And I want to talk about why the tide
00:04:05.980 is maybe sort of turning on this a little bit.
00:04:08.820 oh okay yeah i mean it has been i have a friend who loves target not a sponsor but she loves like
00:04:17.060 the target app and like she will text me as if like yeah christmas has come early the target
00:04:24.540 app has updated and i feel like this wasn't a thing during the pandemic and we've talked about
00:04:29.480 it because it is clearly like a emotional it's something she does when she's stressed
00:04:35.480 and then like i feel that during the pandemic i have seen that a lot more where people are like
00:04:43.660 i need something that will make me feel better for a little bit i also this is a great point
00:04:49.740 that you brought out because i did i hate it when people are like judging folks for i don't know
00:04:56.400 getting groceries delivered or whatever and there's a lot of impact of that but for some
00:05:00.120 people, that's not like laziness. Right. I mean, we definitely relied on it during the pandemic
00:05:06.840 as something that when we didn't want to go out, we didn't want to spread things. We were very
00:05:11.620 concerned, people who were even compromised. And it was a resource that was necessary that really
00:05:18.220 did help try to maintain the spread. And that was the first time you really understood why
00:05:25.100 this could be beneficial. But yeah, that definitely can be abused. And I know this
00:05:29.040 is a whole different thing. And there's that whole conversation of like people with disabilities
00:05:32.900 have to rely on things like this. And it's a service that that should have been happening
00:05:36.960 previously. Absolutely. We absolutely should not be like judging or shaming people for whom they
00:05:43.340 really rely on this for a lifeline. And I think that's one of the reasons why it's so important
00:05:47.320 that the people who are, you know, doing the grocery delivery, who are the workers and the
00:05:53.160 staff, they should be treated well, they should be compensated well, they should have protections
00:05:56.620 And people with disabilities should not have to rely on like private, some pretty exploitative like grocery delivery apps.
00:06:06.180 Like everybody deserves better and we shouldn't be judging anybody who is just trying to like live their life.
00:06:11.380 But I do think that we are in a place where people who, again, myself included, maybe got into some bad online shopping habits without really hitting pause and really thinking about whether those habits, you know,
00:06:26.380 maybe got us through a tough time emotionally during 2020,
00:06:30.760 but maybe aren't really serving us so well
00:06:33.460 or our wallets so well, if you're me, here in 2023.
00:06:37.800 Right, right.
00:06:39.240 It's kind of interesting because I think we've talked about this before.
00:06:42.840 I'm a big fan of TikTok.
00:06:44.340 I can get lost in it for hours and hours at a time.
00:06:47.840 I get so many things.
00:06:50.080 And like, yeah, it starts to read me and I'm like, okay, stop that.
00:06:53.780 Why are you sending me an ad about this?
00:06:55.840 And it's not necessarily an ad, but it's someone that I trust or I say trust in quotes because it's someone that I like and follow and they seem like good people.
00:07:05.880 You never know.
00:07:06.920 And then they're like, oh, yeah, these are my five Amazon finds and these are my five Costco finds.
00:07:12.980 And I'm like, yes, you are correct.
00:07:15.060 I need those things.
00:07:16.480 Did I know that it existed?
00:07:18.040 No, but I absolutely need those things.
00:07:20.780 And it's getting to me more and more.
00:07:23.180 The five Amazon stuff always gets me.
00:07:25.900 And I have this thing with like,
00:07:27.280 there are so many creators on TikTok,
00:07:28.760 which I'm also addicted to.
00:07:30.200 So I feel you on that, Sam. 1.00
00:07:31.720 But like TikTokers who are all about, 0.99
00:07:34.520 you know, like, oh, here's like, 0.99
00:07:36.420 here's what my really organized desk
00:07:38.780 or workspace looks like.
00:07:39.960 Like I clearly have some kind of emotional hangup
00:07:43.660 around the way that work gets done in my life.
00:07:46.960 And so I subsequently follow a lot of creators
00:07:49.680 for whom that's their niche.
00:07:50.680 And so they're like,
00:07:51.240 Here's what my Notion looks like.
00:07:53.440 Here's what my dot journaling looks like.
00:07:54.960 Here's what my laptop or workstation looks like.
00:07:57.220 And that I clearly have some kind of a like hang up about that internally.
00:08:01.040 And so I watch a lot of that.
00:08:02.340 And so whenever they're like my, you know, go to my Amazon storefront, my five, you know,
00:08:07.380 the five things that really help me stay productive.
00:08:09.440 I know that I'm kind of vulnerable and primed to just click buy without even thinking about
00:08:14.360 it because it speaks to some sort of internal like issue I have where I'm like, I must think
00:08:21.080 that, oh, the way that work gets done in my life is not up to par with the way that work gets done
00:08:26.120 in the lives of other creative people or something. And so it's really, I think part of it really is
00:08:31.660 like knowing your triggers and knowing the vulnerabilities that you have that we're so
00:08:38.760 likely to try to fill by hitting buy now or by buying a thing that we really ultimately might
00:08:44.980 not even need. And so, you know, if I had to give this this conversation like a so what, it's that
00:08:52.060 we should really be in a headspace of asking some questions when it feels like the algorithm or the
00:08:58.540 app or the platform is the one in control and we are passive. I think that what is really important
00:09:03.940 is if we switch that dynamic so that we, the human, the person who makes the money and makes
00:09:09.100 the decisions about how the money gets spent, is the one in control and that we are not, you know,
00:09:14.980 at the behest of algorithms and influencers who we don't even know and, you know, apps and
00:09:21.420 platforms. And so in service of that, I think it kind of makes sense to kind of talk about
00:09:26.180 how we got here, like a little bit of a look back on influencing and how we got to this point,
00:09:32.360 or maybe people are kind of starting to ask a few questions about the role that social media
00:09:37.700 influencing has on our life. So if I had to ask you, what do you think used to be the main
00:09:43.920 app on social media where a lot
00:09:46.080 of influencing was taking place, what would you
00:09:48.020 say? Instagram. Instagram.
00:09:50.660 Instagram. It's absolutely
00:09:52.240 Instagram. You know, back
00:09:54.140 in the golden era of Instagram,
00:09:56.400 it looked good.
00:09:58.060 It had a good layout. It was easy to
00:10:00.060 use. It was understandable.
00:10:02.360 It was a different time,
00:10:04.120 right? And so, I think, like, one,
00:10:06.320 it felt, back then, I'm
00:10:08.040 going to say, like, this is, like, 2014
00:10:10.080 is when I would kind of situate this.
00:10:12.660 So, it felt
00:10:13.800 kind of clear how one would get engagement.
00:10:17.520 So if you were an influencer,
00:10:19.300 if you were on the influencer side of things,
00:10:21.040 you probably had a pretty clear sense
00:10:22.380 of like what the algorithm was going to reward.
00:10:25.060 It rewarded images of faces, for instance.
00:10:27.560 And so the rules seemed pretty doable.
00:10:30.240 You know, post every day,
00:10:31.880 post natively from the Instagram app,
00:10:33.940 as opposed to adding a picture later.
00:10:36.120 It was pretty clear what you needed to do
00:10:38.180 to do well on Instagram, algorithmically speaking.
00:10:41.000 I think that us as the audience who was consuming the content that influencers made on Instagram, we also had a pretty good sense of what to expect. 0.93
00:10:49.880 You know, you were going to get conventionally attractive women who were giving you like life envy and making it seem like, oh, well, if you bought this specific item, your life could be like mine, right?
00:11:01.680 And like, obviously, this is like a curated, manufactured lie that could absolutely be harmful to people who were consuming it, as research is like very clear.
00:11:11.000 But I would argue that there was something familiar to it, right?
00:11:14.660 Like, we understood what to expect as an audience who was consuming the content of influencers.
00:11:21.380 But now, here in 2023, there are two big things that are happening that I believe have really shifted this golden Instagram age.
00:11:28.840 And thus shifted how folks are maybe feeling about influencers.
00:11:32.760 The first is that the social media landscape is really, really changing and really seeing some seismic shifts.
00:11:39.620 We've seen this play out in a couple ways.
00:11:41.000 One, people just are not using Instagram like they were in the golden era of, like, 2014, you know?
00:11:46.800 A new report in The Atlantic that came out last month called Everyone is Over Instagram
00:11:51.320 said that Instagram is slowly and steadily losing its relevance, specifically with young users.
00:11:57.460 And, like, that's the user base that any social media platform really needs to court.
00:12:01.960 Like, young people.
00:12:02.760 You want young people to really be using your platform for it to feel, like, really relevant.
00:12:07.180 Right, right.
00:12:08.080 And it's funny because I am not on TikTok.
00:12:11.480 But I've noticed that Instagram is just like videos now.
00:12:16.500 It's like TikTok.
00:12:18.640 Which is a different thing.
00:12:19.900 It's a different thing.
00:12:21.680 But it is interesting to me.
00:12:23.940 I love, I'm fascinated by kind of these like shifts.
00:12:26.900 Why do people like?
00:12:27.940 Like why are people into TikTok over like Instagram?
00:12:30.400 Why is that happening?
00:12:32.620 But yeah, I mean, why is it that Instagram has lost favor?
00:12:38.440 Why is it fading?
00:12:39.980 That's a great question.
00:12:40.640 I would say one is just that like when the rules become less transparent or just less doable, I think people find it less kind of worth it to post there, right?
00:12:51.440 And so I think that if the rules felt clear in 2014, today it seems like every month Instagram announces a new thing they're going to be prioritizing.
00:13:00.880 It used to be static images, then it's going to be video.
00:13:03.960 It used to be like, if you posted once a day, that was enough.
00:13:07.600 Then Instagram put out guidance for creators that was like,
00:13:09.880 oh, you need to be making four reels a day.
00:13:12.400 That's a lot of content.
00:13:13.580 It's just not possible.
00:13:14.760 And so if Instagram decides we're going to algorithmically reward people
00:13:19.120 who follow this difficult to follow and also difficult to understand
00:13:25.340 and constantly changing set of guidelines,
00:13:28.080 and if you don't follow those, we're not going to show your post to anybody,
00:13:31.400 even your friends, even the people who want to see your posts,
00:13:34.440 it just eventually starts to feel like, well, what's the point, right?
00:13:36.820 Like, that's one of the reasons why personally, like, I've used Instagram less
00:13:40.320 is because whatever the guidance is they give to creators
00:13:43.640 to try to get more engagement on the platform, it's just too much, right?
00:13:47.360 Like, I have work.
00:13:48.440 I don't, like, Instagram is not my job.
00:13:50.720 For some people, it is their job.
00:13:51.880 And so I can understand, you know, playing the game a little bit more.
00:13:55.340 But it's just not what I do.
00:13:56.720 I do other things in my life.
00:13:57.840 And so if then I'm going to be kind of, I use this word very lightly, but like punished algorithmically by having my content not shown to people, even people who I know, even people who are my friends who I know want to see that content, what is the point?
00:14:12.240 Like why jump through those hoops if that's how you're going to be treated on a platform, you know?
00:14:17.700 Right.
00:14:18.340 You know, and I was thinking as with Instagram, when we were talking about, yes, there's all these reels and younger people are getting frustrated, they also changed the algorithm.
00:14:25.640 I know there was like a whole year-long campaign of people just asking, can you see this post?
00:14:31.620 And even for our post at Stuff Mom Never Told You, we are verified.
00:14:35.520 We have over 30,000 followers.
00:14:37.100 We rarely get more than four or five likes because we don't post but every other day.
00:14:41.440 And like when you look up how do you get, you know, followers or views, it's literally like you said, the post for things.
00:14:48.300 But now it's adding post this, put it on the reel, put it on the videos, and you have to do all three of those things.
00:14:54.700 So you're literally taking four posts times three to put it on the same site.
00:14:59.240 And it doesn't sound like it's worth it anymore.
00:15:00.900 And then the suppression alone with the algorithm, why?
00:15:03.960 Just why?
00:15:04.880 Exactly.
00:15:05.500 And you have to basically be a one-person, like, studio, right?
00:15:10.720 Because, like, you have to make the post, turn it into a reel, comment.
00:15:14.800 It's like, you have a job, dude.
00:15:16.680 Like, you're a podcaster.
00:15:17.680 It's like, your job is not doing Instagram.
00:15:19.080 And I've actually worked with like social media managers, like professional social media managers to help grow my account.
00:15:26.240 And, you know, this was a few years ago, so I can't speak to whether or not this is good advice now.
00:15:31.020 So don't try this thinking this is how you grow Instagram now because I really don't know.
00:15:35.100 But something that she did is like, oh, yeah, I just spend a good amount of time commenting on content of accounts that are similar to you in what they post.
00:15:44.220 And so, you know, she would spend like two hours a day just being like, great post.
00:15:48.760 Yeah, I love this.
00:15:50.000 And like, who has time for that, right?
00:15:53.080 Like, I was doing a little experiment to see if it would help.
00:15:55.220 And it actually did help grow my account.
00:15:57.620 But like, am I going to sit there and do that?
00:16:00.020 Absolutely not, right?
00:16:01.020 Like, and so I can see why people are just like, yeah, not going to do that.
00:16:05.600 Don't need that.
00:16:06.260 And I think, Annie, I think that you mentioned that when you go to Instagram now, what you kind of see is a lot of reels that are really TikToks that you saw on TikTok if you have that platform, you know, a week ago.
00:16:19.600 And so it kind of, I think separately, I think that Instagram is really confused about what role they are trying to play in our lives and in our social media diets.
00:16:30.620 I don't think that they know.
00:16:32.000 I think that like one day it'll be images, one day it'll be reels that's like not clear.
00:16:36.260 And it's so funny because someone else who is really impressed about this are the Kardashians.
00:16:41.860 Folks might recall that over the summer, Kylie Jenner and Kim Kardashian both posted an image
00:16:46.880 saying, make Instagram Instagram again. Stop trying to be TikTok. I just want to see cute
00:16:52.180 photos of my friends. And this is really kind of not surprising to me because the Kardashians are
00:16:58.240 so good at being Instagram friendly or the friendly for the version of Instagram that
00:17:04.000 Instagram used to be, right? Like, they're all beautiful. They all take beautiful pictures.
00:17:07.900 They're all really good at looking kind of Instagram perfect and polished. TikTok takes
00:17:13.080 it in a completely different skill set. You kind of have to be funny or engaging or, you know,
00:17:18.960 you have to have something that's going to make, like, just looking good on TikTok is not enough.
00:17:22.680 You have to bring something else. And no shade to the Kardashians. That is not my skill set either.
00:17:27.840 So I'm not trying to, like, put them down or anything. And so what's interesting is that
00:17:31.820 after the Kardashians said like,
00:17:34.100 oh, go back to cute pictures of my friends,
00:17:36.920 the head of Instagram responded over the summer
00:17:38.960 saying that Instagram,
00:17:40.820 they just needed to focus on video and reels
00:17:43.800 to survive and grow as a platform.
00:17:46.160 But then just last week,
00:17:48.280 he posted that, you know, that was the wrong move.
00:17:51.200 He did a complete about face
00:17:52.420 and he said that Instagram, quote,
00:17:54.320 over-focused on video last year.
00:17:56.500 And so now the platform is going back
00:17:58.500 to balancing the amount of photos and videos shown to users
00:18:01.660 In one example that he gave,
00:18:02.760 he said that Instagram will consider
00:18:04.060 how often a person likes and comments on photos
00:18:07.080 versus videos to determine which content
00:18:09.680 will appear first in their feeds.
00:18:11.520 And so this really tells me that like,
00:18:13.420 they don't know what they're doing.
00:18:14.320 They're not sure of their strategy.
00:18:16.300 You know, it's not clear to them
00:18:17.780 what they're trying to be.
00:18:19.400 And I think it's no wonder why people are like,
00:18:21.580 yeah, I'll let y'all figure it out.
00:18:22.800 And while y'all figure it out,
00:18:23.580 I'm gonna be on TikTok
00:18:24.260 or just be getting rid of social media altogether.
00:18:31.200 get bell pure fiber internet with crave netflix and disney plus from 94 a month price guaranteed
00:18:41.000 for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit visit bell.ca for details
00:18:46.040 and to check availability bell connection is everything run a business and not thinking
00:18:51.380 about podcasting think again more americans listen to podcasts than ad supported streaming
00:18:56.400 music from spotify and pandora and as the number one podcaster iheart's twice as large as the next
00:19:01.720 two combined so whatever your customers listen to they'll hear your message plus only iheart
00:19:06.660 can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio think podcasting can help your
00:19:11.240 business think iheart streaming radio and podcasting let us show you at iheartadvertising.com
00:19:17.640 that's iheartadvertising.com if your bookshelf and your for you page are equally important to
00:19:23.240 your personality welcome home this is prose society the weekly podcast that's part book club
00:19:30.520 part group chat for thought daughters pop culture obsessives and anyone who thinks pride and
00:19:35.160 prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse i'm eli rallo and every week we're
00:19:40.440 connecting the dots between books the internet and the conversations everyone can't stop having
00:19:45.340 i'm gonna have to look up this story i'm obsessed so obsessed from best-selling authors and your
00:19:50.820 favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments nothing is off the table it's
00:19:55.760 like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters and that is a trojan horse
00:20:02.760 whether you're looking for literary deep dives smart pop culture conversations or a community
00:20:07.920 of readers who love to think a little too much you're in the right place listen to pro society
00:20:13.420 on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts see you between the pages
00:20:20.820 you know i think it's kind of funny because i i think of this analogy when
00:20:29.640 you think of instagram i think of the elder millennials that's me don't don't i don't want
00:20:35.420 to hear it because i'm in between the uh xers and uh the millennials i came up the right at the cusp
00:20:40.520 uh but like elder millennials trying to be cool and hip and talk to those gen zers who would be
00:20:46.820 the tiktok kids and i feel like that's what's happening what we see is like and instagram
00:20:52.420 trying to be really cool and really relevant and just kind of missing the mark because we are no
00:20:56.800 longer at that point in life and i find it funny because that's all i can think of tiktok versus
00:21:02.360 instagram trying to become tiktok and tiktok's like i don't care about you yeah it's so but
00:21:07.620 nothing is like more i mean i love i love this content because i think that like
00:21:12.000 Gen Z, younger folks,
00:21:14.280 I love it when they come for us 0.77
00:21:16.380 elder millennials.
00:21:18.260 Sometimes they'll be like things that
00:21:20.060 millennials really need to stop doing on Instagram.
00:21:22.400 And I'm always like, yes, drag me.
00:21:24.640 Like, no more boomerangs.
00:21:26.700 You're going to fix us. Thank you.
00:21:28.540 And you know, the other part of that, and again,
00:21:30.300 I think this has a lot to do with the generational changes.
00:21:33.060 And again, I love it.
00:21:33.960 Is that, yeah, Instagram really
00:21:35.960 gave birth to, as we
00:21:38.200 said, influencers and selling us
00:21:40.040 things and selling us ideas and selling us things that we will never be and try to, but what we try
00:21:45.800 to still attain, which is the Kardashians, you know, they were a really big force in that.
00:21:51.600 But with TikTok, it seems like the younger generation that was really into it was like,
00:21:56.520 we're tired of celebrities. We want a chance to see regular people who have a lot of good ideas
00:22:02.440 and content. And the TikTok is for the people because I know there's been a lot of pushback
00:22:06.060 as celebrities are now jumping on TikTok,
00:22:08.380 but people are like, stop it, this is not for you.
00:22:10.400 Oh my God, I could talk about this for hours.
00:22:12.560 This is something I find so fascinating.
00:22:14.180 So I think because TikTok is a younger platform,
00:22:18.100 they just have a completely different relationship
00:22:20.260 with digital life than millennials have. 1.00
00:22:23.580 And so I absolutely agree with you
00:22:25.200 that especially for younger folks
00:22:27.260 who are spending time on TikTok,
00:22:29.000 and TikTok is the fastest growing social media app
00:22:31.460 out there right now,
00:22:32.420 I think the audience is very different
00:22:34.780 from the curated Instagram audience
00:22:37.860 in that they do want more real stuff.
00:22:40.880 Like, they want authenticity.
00:22:42.580 Not that, like, fake, like,
00:22:44.300 oh, my house is so messy authenticity.
00:22:46.260 Like, really authenticity.
00:22:47.420 And they are vocal.
00:22:48.960 Like, they will call you out.
00:22:50.300 There was a whole thing with,
00:22:51.760 I think it was Bethany Frankel going on TikTok.
00:22:54.940 And her transition to TikTok wasn't very smooth.
00:22:58.560 And I think part of it is because, like,
00:23:01.560 celebrities maybe are used to being able
00:23:03.340 to say certain things
00:23:05.060 and get everybody fawning
00:23:06.040 all over them on Instagram 0.60
00:23:07.140 or on other social media platforms.
00:23:08.600 And they're not finding
00:23:09.720 that reception on TikTok.
00:23:10.920 Like TikTok is the app
00:23:12.500 for like regular people to talk.
00:23:14.620 It's not for celebrities
00:23:15.780 to like hawk their perfect lives.
00:23:18.660 And there's actually
00:23:19.220 a influencer right now,
00:23:21.540 like a big influencer,
00:23:22.960 Michaela Nogeria.
00:23:24.780 I apologize for saying
00:23:25.620 her last name wrong,
00:23:26.380 but is in very hot water 1.00
00:23:28.800 for trying to do a mascara brand,
00:23:31.140 like sponsored content,
00:23:32.220 while allegedly wearing false lashes.
00:23:35.060 And so obviously you can't be like,
00:23:36.480 this mascara is so great.
00:23:38.200 Look at the way it transformed my lashes.
00:23:40.740 Whereas like, I think those are fake lashes.
00:23:42.740 And so people are calling this person out
00:23:46.180 because that doesn't fly there, right?
00:23:48.740 And so I think that like,
00:23:49.480 you're exactly right, Sam,
00:23:50.660 that the audience that is big on TikTok
00:23:53.760 is a lot more vocal, a lot more savvy,
00:23:55.840 and they will call you out
00:23:57.300 if they feel like they're being pushed something
00:23:59.460 that's just like a fantasy that's not real.
00:24:01.680 Maybe on Instagram, you might get away with that, but not on TikTok.
00:24:05.700 Well, I will say the thing about TikTok is there are TikTok sleuths, but that is their intent.
00:24:12.180 And entire content is like to call out the falsehood of other content.
00:24:17.380 It is the rabbit holes I have gone down where I'm like, I don't even know this person.
00:24:22.360 I have never even seen them on TikTok.
00:24:24.520 But apparently they're faking having a scar to get clout.
00:24:28.300 I need to reach a thousand comments
00:24:30.340 and spend six hours of my time on this
00:24:32.980 despite only having one life to live on this green earth.
00:24:37.080 And I know what you're talking about
00:24:38.660 and I hate that I know what you're talking about 0.98
00:24:40.720 because I did the damn same thing. 0.53
00:24:42.480 I'm like, what does this have to do with it? 0.97
00:24:44.740 Like, it has nothing to do with me.
00:24:45.940 This isn't even somebody who I follow or I'm invested in.
00:24:49.340 But like, you're like,
00:24:51.400 the evidence that people compile is like,
00:24:54.220 I'm fascinated.
00:24:55.400 If anything ever happens to me,
00:24:56.940 well, I guess I shouldn't say that.
00:24:57.720 But, like, the way that, like, TikTok sleuths are able to, like, investigate the nitty-gritty of that really doesn't matter.
00:25:04.900 My hats are off to them.
00:25:06.660 The petty is real.
00:25:08.760 And if it's all in good fun, there's definitely seriousness that we definitely talked about before.
00:25:13.580 But the pettiness is real.
00:25:15.020 And when you get invested, you're just like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
00:25:17.740 And you can't help but be the voyeur and you feel a little guilty.
00:25:21.160 I will say that.
00:25:22.220 But you can't put one over on them.
00:25:24.460 And it continues to baffle me because as you're talking about TikTok as one of the younger ones, the way that it has grown exponentially, is it going to be able to keep up with that demand?
00:25:40.720 Yeah, that's such a great question.
00:25:42.000 And I actually, this is a Fuego take.
00:25:46.600 So, you know, whatever.
00:25:48.120 This is my opinion.
00:25:49.140 I think that we are going to see
00:25:51.060 government legislation of TikTok in 2023.
00:25:55.680 This is like my big tech prediction.
00:25:58.000 I think that it's growing so much.
00:26:00.580 I think there are national security questions.
00:26:05.360 I guess I'll just put it that way.
00:26:06.480 I think that, you know, there have been,
00:26:08.160 there is like rare bipartisan support for doing something about TikTok. It's already been banned
00:26:16.420 on, I think federal government devices can't have TikTok on them. A handful of states have banned
00:26:21.820 having TikTok on state-run devices, and that number is growing. Universities are the same.
00:26:26.780 That number is growing of universities that have banned TikTok from state-owned devices.
00:26:30.960 I think that we are seeing enough traction in government in a bipartisan way and also
00:26:37.500 civil society in institutions, that I do think that like something is going to happen or be done
00:26:43.160 to combat TikTok's growth because their growth has just been like, if folks want to look it up,
00:26:47.700 like it is wild how many users it is gaining. It's just like exploding. One of the things that
00:26:54.180 I think about TikTok becoming kind of the new place where people are spending their time online
00:26:59.780 on social media, why that might be fueling a kind of backlash against influencing is that
00:27:04.760 this moves a lot faster than Instagram, which fuels what they call micro trends. And so if a
00:27:09.800 trend is something that is in style for a little bit of time, a micro trend is something that
00:27:14.700 becomes in style or in vogue very quickly and then burns out just as quickly. Something can be
00:27:20.560 iconic and very popular one month. And by the end of the month, people are talking about it being
00:27:25.760 out of style. A great example is like this clothing brand that I really doubled down on and like went
00:27:31.680 for a hard House of Sunny. They make this like very bright colored clothing that really pops on
00:27:36.840 social media. And I was like, oh my God. And I bought like a sweater and a dress and this and
00:27:40.140 that. Maybe a month later, people were like, oh, it already looks so dated. And so if you think
00:27:44.880 about what is sort of in style, how quickly it becomes sort of passe, I think that TikTok becoming
00:27:50.780 a place where people spend more of their digital time online is one of the reasons why trends are
00:27:57.080 kind of flaming out so quickly.
00:27:59.440 And so if you're an influencer,
00:28:01.480 you know, that's just a lot.
00:28:03.780 Having to like,
00:28:05.140 it is exhausting to be,
00:28:06.600 even just in the audience,
00:28:07.660 to be told you need to buy a new thing
00:28:09.880 over and over and over again.
00:28:11.300 And in January, it's this water bottle.
00:28:13.720 In February, that water bottle's out.
00:28:15.640 Now it's this water bottle.
00:28:16.860 It's no wonder that people
00:28:18.400 can't really keep up with that
00:28:19.840 because it's too fast.
00:28:21.140 That's so funny.
00:28:21.680 I feel like I'm the like
00:28:22.900 millennial person that comes in like,
00:28:25.280 oh, I finally got this thing.
00:28:26.660 and they're like that's three years ago what are you doing it does feel like it moves very very
00:28:31.600 quickly and actually an interesting implication of this kind of thing is like because i also do
00:28:39.060 a food podcast is the thing like the feta pasta like feta cheese like couldn't you couldn't find
00:28:46.220 it anywhere and it was because of tiktok and then a month later everyone was like what are you
00:28:49.120 talking about. But for that one month, nobody could find feta cheese. Yeah, I see it with food.
00:28:57.180 It's so interesting when it happens with food because it does correlate with when you go to
00:29:01.580 the grocery store, it's just like not there. I've heard that tinned fish is like the new thing right
00:29:07.400 now, which if you don't want to talk about like our economic climate, the fact that like
00:29:10.740 tinned fish, like, oh, just having our tinned fish date night, that tells me something. I'm like,
00:29:15.180 oh, people are thinking about our economic climate
00:29:18.600 in some perhaps like less than cheery outlook.
00:29:21.440 Yes, which brings us to what we've been talking about
00:29:24.480 is another piece of this is,
00:29:26.280 like what I was saying with myself and my friends
00:29:29.160 is this anxiety of this,
00:29:32.020 like maybe if I buy this thing, I'll feel better.
00:29:35.900 Like maybe this will make things better
00:29:38.020 and that's not unique, right?
00:29:41.360 Absolutely.
00:29:42.000 And so the second thing that we're seeing
00:29:43.720 that's really, I think, shaping all this
00:29:45.240 is this kind of feeling of like economic unease
00:29:48.620 and uncertainty that is impacting the way
00:29:50.800 that people are responding to influencing.
00:29:53.300 I think that a lot of folks are concerned
00:29:55.520 about an economic downturn.
00:29:57.100 We're seeing like layoffs in a lot of sectors
00:29:59.160 like tech and media.
00:30:00.600 I think people are perhaps wary
00:30:03.120 about spending money on things that they see online
00:30:05.520 and maybe doing it in a different way
00:30:07.700 than maybe once we were in 2020.
00:30:09.580 And I think that like, more importantly,
00:30:11.360 I think that as we go into times that are uncertain, economically uncertain,
00:30:18.280 economically unstable, people don't really want to open up their phone and see people living the
00:30:23.980 high life, right? Like it just doesn't feel good to be worried about inflation, worried about food
00:30:29.980 being on the shelves, worried about how you're going to make rent, if you're going to be laid
00:30:33.340 off, and open your phone and see an influencer trying to sell you that their life is perfect
00:30:38.100 and that your life can be perfect too
00:30:40.000 if you buy this thing that you don't need,
00:30:42.460 don't have money for,
00:30:43.380 and don't even really want.
00:30:44.300 I think that people are just
00:30:45.200 not feeling that vibe anymore.
00:30:48.180 I think there was a time
00:30:49.260 where that had a time and a place
00:30:51.420 and it felt very familiar.
00:30:52.660 I think right now we're not loving it.
00:30:55.220 Yeah.
00:30:56.100 Yeah.
00:30:56.540 It just feels kind of like out of touch.
00:30:58.220 And you brought up the Kardashians earlier
00:30:59.680 and they're big.
00:31:01.840 Like they've even been in the news recently
00:31:03.880 for like lawsuits,
00:31:04.620 but they were really big about this
00:31:06.400 of like selling you a thing
00:31:08.340 and just felt like they weren't
00:31:10.780 kind of reading the room, I guess.
00:31:13.040 Totally.
00:31:13.860 I remember they,
00:31:14.860 and I talked about this in an episode
00:31:15.980 of There Are No Girls on the Internet,
00:31:18.260 my own podcast,
00:31:19.340 around the holidays.
00:31:20.440 I remember, I think it was last year
00:31:22.640 or the year before,
00:31:23.420 they posted their Easter spread
00:31:26.040 and it was like the most opulent thing,
00:31:29.720 like even for Kardashian standards,
00:31:31.580 the most opulent thing you've ever seen.
00:31:33.380 It was like life, like life-size teddy bears, full size, like five full-size gumball machines with like pink gum in them, four bicycles.
00:31:43.420 It was like the most elaborate and lavish opulent spread, even by Kardashian standards that I have seen.
00:31:49.880 And the response was not like, wow, how cool for them.
00:31:53.100 The response was overconsume much.
00:31:56.400 Like, and I think that that really shows us that we are in a place where when they posted that, they probably thought everyone was going to love it.
00:32:02.680 But in reality, most people were like, this is a little opulent, seems a little tacky, seems a little out of touch for one holiday.
00:32:09.700 Like, at what point do we start asking questions about the value of overconsumption and whether or not that's a value that is, like, inherently good or healthy or, like, serving us in our lives?
00:32:20.600 Right.
00:32:21.520 And I mean, Instagram, that's kind of the thing.
00:32:26.620 It's like you're presenting this really curated version of your life.
00:32:32.680 And then kind of, at least in my case, and I think there's been some studies about this, but like feeling bad because you'd see other people's pictures, you're like, oh, their life is way better than mine.
00:32:42.040 But also, and I could be wrong about this, but I feel like a lot of the influencers I saw on Instagram were women.
00:32:52.660 Like a lot of the people who were like, hey, you need to buy this thing.
00:32:55.100 Maybe that's just the algorithm for me, but it was women. 1.00
00:32:58.280 It is not just you. 1.00
00:32:59.080 I think this is inherently gendered.
00:33:01.360 The lion's share of influencers are women and girls.
00:33:03.640 According to a study by the influencer marketing agency,
00:33:06.260 IZEA, in 2021, women accounted for more than 85%
00:33:10.220 of sponsorships made as influencers. 0.91
00:33:12.000 But I should note that because this is America,
00:33:15.340 there is also an influencer pay gap.
00:33:17.300 Even though there are more, 0.99
00:33:18.700 like women make up the bulk of influencing, 0.99
00:33:20.980 they're still paid less than men for influencing, 1.00
00:33:23.440 which is a real head scratcher. 1.00
00:33:25.200 But yeah, I think it's women and girls
00:33:27.120 who are being sold all of this.
00:33:28.940 So we're not just being sold products.
00:33:31.560 We are being sold products as a proxy
00:33:34.100 for like getting your life together 0.95
00:33:35.600 or like succeeding at being a woman
00:33:38.160 or I think that we're being sold on the idea
00:33:40.920 that you can consume your way
00:33:42.780 into the kind of life that you want.
00:33:44.940 And I think that capitalism and consumption 0.83
00:33:46.840 as a means of perpetuating gender roles
00:33:48.720 has always been a thing.
00:33:50.280 And I think right now in 2023, 0.99
00:33:52.860 I think a lot of women are just exhausted.
00:33:55.740 We have been burdened with so much. 0.99
00:33:57.700 We have had our rights just like,
00:34:00.500 it's not a very rosy time to be a woman in 2023,
00:34:03.340 I guess that's what I'm saying.
00:34:03.940 I feel like if I go into it, I'll be here all day. 1.00
00:34:06.600 But I think that a lot of women are just like, 1.00
00:34:09.120 on top of everything else that we have to shoulder, 1.00
00:34:11.760 I don't have the emotional bandwidth
00:34:13.840 to buy into this idea that tells me
00:34:17.280 that I have to buy this product on Instagram
00:34:19.340 to be a more complete woman. 0.99
00:34:21.320 I think more women are calling BS on this idea,
00:34:23.640 especially younger women. 1.00
00:34:25.640 Right, I will say.
00:34:26.500 So immediately after the new year, the first thing, one of the first, and I think she went super viral, is this girl laying down in bed in TikTok and saying, you don't need this.
00:34:37.380 Here are the five products you don't need.
00:34:39.520 And then goes down a list of all the trends and said, this is not, you're not going to use this.
00:34:43.540 You're not going to ever see it again.
00:34:45.120 Don't buy it.
00:34:46.000 You're only good.
00:34:46.520 Like, that was the first video I saw.
00:34:48.840 I was like, oh, what is this?
00:34:50.480 And the next one was the girl who was like, hey, I have bought every single expensive hair product. 0.99
00:34:55.040 These are bulls**t. 0.94
00:34:55.880 And here are the products you should go to, go to CVS. 0.99
00:34:58.340 This is much better.
00:34:59.300 Don't buy those expensive things.
00:35:00.460 And I was like, what is happening?
00:35:03.080 Yeah, so that is a great example of de-influencing,
00:35:06.760 which is all over TikTok right now.
00:35:08.580 So what is de-influencing?
00:35:10.020 Well, basically, again, it's exactly what it sounds like.
00:35:12.320 Rather than trying to convince you to buy something,
00:35:14.300 it's telling you, you don't actually need to buy this.
00:35:17.020 So creators will be telling you,
00:35:18.340 like, you don't need another water bottle.
00:35:20.160 If you're me, you don't need another notebook
00:35:21.740 that you, you know, are not going to use
00:35:23.500 when you already have like 20 on your shelf.
00:35:25.080 or telling you how different TikTok or social media famous products are actually not worth the money, not worth it.
00:35:32.860 According to the newsletter Glossy, the hashtag de-influencing has 21.4 million views
00:35:38.340 and has increased in popularity even in just the past week.
00:35:40.920 They spoke to a creator who goes by Elle Gray, or Basic, of course,
00:35:45.980 who pointed to the impact of the economy on consumer spending and the ability, or lack thereof,
00:35:50.740 to buy based on influencer recommendations
00:35:53.260 as one of the reasons why de-influencing
00:35:55.600 is becoming so popular.
00:35:57.440 Elle says,
00:35:58.180 in the last 12 months,
00:36:00.000 we've seen an extreme slowdown in the global economy.
00:36:02.380 As we enter into a recession,
00:36:03.680 people are starting to feel the effects
00:36:05.060 and are taking a closer look
00:36:06.280 at their spending and consumption.
00:36:08.100 Many people have gotten fed up
00:36:09.460 with the constant barrage of microtrends
00:36:11.400 and must-have items,
00:36:12.580 especially as they take a closer look
00:36:14.060 at their bank accounts.
00:36:15.340 And so, you know,
00:36:16.680 I think that this creator is probably on to something
00:36:19.420 That, you know, we started this conversation today talking about the things that we, and again, myself, very guilty of this, over-consumed online in 2020.
00:36:30.260 I think that de-influencing is a response to some of these over-consumption habits that a lot of us just sort of picked up during the pandemic in 2020 and, like, just kept having in our life.
00:36:42.060 And now we're like, wait a minute, is this actually a good idea?
00:36:44.520 Is it actually good that I, you know, will just click buy now and get something without really thinking about if I need it, if I want it?
00:36:51.620 Like, is it something I actually truly need?
00:36:54.160 Probably not.
00:37:03.260 Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Crave, Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month.
00:37:08.080 with price guaranteed for two years on internet
00:37:10.100 with a two-year term and auto-pay credit.
00:37:12.460 Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability.
00:37:15.220 Bell, connection is everything.
00:37:17.700 Run a business and not thinking about podcasting?
00:37:20.420 Think again.
00:37:21.420 More Americans listen to podcasts
00:37:22.880 than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora.
00:37:25.960 And as the number one podcaster,
00:37:27.780 iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined.
00:37:30.220 So whatever your customers listen to,
00:37:31.800 they'll hear your message.
00:37:32.940 Plus, only iHeart can extend your message
00:37:35.120 to audiences across broadcast radio.
00:37:37.040 Think podcasting can help your business?
00:37:39.340 Think iHeart.
00:37:40.320 Streaming, radio, and podcasting.
00:37:42.440 Call 844-844-IHEART to get started.
00:37:45.580 That's 844-844-IHEART.
00:37:48.040 If your bookshelf and your For You page
00:37:50.020 are equally important to your personality,
00:37:52.440 welcome home.
00:37:53.960 This is Prose Society,
00:37:56.060 the weekly podcast that's part book club,
00:37:58.620 part group chat for thought daughters,
00:38:00.380 pop culture obsessives,
00:38:01.580 and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice
00:38:03.400 and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.
00:38:06.420 I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.
00:38:13.540 I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.
00:38:17.060 From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table.
00:38:23.060 It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse.
00:38:30.540 Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place.
00:38:40.140 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:38:46.080 See you between the pages.
00:38:53.520 I will say I feel like, and maybe it's just the side of TikTok I'm on because we know it is very curated.
00:38:58.900 these the influencers who are trying to help you save money and tell you what it is and tell you
00:39:03.200 what's working what's not working it's almost a way of women supporting women or you know the
00:39:07.260 marginalized supporting the marginalized like you're the one i know this is aimed towards you
00:39:10.880 typically women are typically you know those who are in like really harsh places so i'm going to 0.55
00:39:16.240 help you and tell you not to do this and on top of that the same conversation about the gen zers 1.00
00:39:21.260 again i'm still in awe of them is that they are all about calling out the bs so when they see an
00:39:27.700 influencers saying, this is amazing. And then they start realizing this person is all about
00:39:32.580 the money. This person is not genuinely doing things, kind of like the mascara. We're going
00:39:36.700 to call you out and tell you don't do this, again, as a way to protect other consumers slash other 1.00
00:39:41.760 women. I love how you put that. I absolutely have seen a million times that women and other 0.99
00:39:48.680 marginalized people telling each other the truth and leveling with each other and breaking down
00:39:53.860 for each other, that is more powerful than a million dollar PR ad campaign, than a million
00:40:00.280 well-paid like, you know, PR agents working overtime. Nothing is more powerful than women 1.00
00:40:06.920 sharing their truths with each other. And that can like, yeah, it doesn't matter what like 1.00
00:40:11.540 expensive marketing firm that you've contracted. Women sharing each other's truths with each other 1.00
00:40:18.340 will always be more powerful. Absolutely. Yeah. And I find it interesting because it's those 1.00
00:40:23.220 kind of like that same girl I was talking about
00:40:25.140 who was saying don't buy this
00:40:26.340 and she's now gone viral.
00:40:27.900 Being honest, being truthful
00:40:30.140 and trying to protect others
00:40:31.680 has really built her audience
00:40:33.400 and she's become an influencer slash the influencer
00:40:36.260 and is now getting credibility
00:40:37.840 and may be able to go viral enough 1.00
00:40:39.660 to like start having her own outlets, 0.83
00:40:42.300 whether it is, who knows?
00:40:43.380 I know several people from TikTok
00:40:44.780 as well as YouTube,
00:40:46.160 but that's the whole thing,
00:40:47.820 have shows, get shows, get brand deals
00:40:49.820 or get specific deals that are genuinely good
00:40:52.940 because they are honest and it's building them up.
00:40:56.040 So it's interesting to see how the opposite of that has grown them.
00:41:01.860 Does that make sense?
00:41:02.880 It makes so much sense.
00:41:04.060 I think it marks a shift and I think it's good.
00:41:08.820 I think that we should question why the powers that be
00:41:14.240 are so quick to reward people who make their entire thing
00:41:18.720 about stuff that you should buy over consumption.
00:41:21.720 We could be instead building up honest platforms
00:41:24.940 and platforms that say like,
00:41:26.220 well, you really aren't going to use this
00:41:27.460 or you really don't need this.
00:41:28.660 Like, I love watching on TikTok
00:41:30.480 people who do closet clean outs
00:41:33.000 and they're like,
00:41:34.020 these are the top five things
00:41:35.340 I like remove from people's closets
00:41:37.440 or like the top 10 things people don't actually wear
00:41:39.600 because it might actually help create that shift
00:41:42.660 of being a little bit more in tuned
00:41:45.840 and intentional about what you buy.
00:41:47.460 And I think that's really important.
00:41:48.480 I mean, like it has so many implications,
00:41:50.060 Not, you know, not the least of which is the environmental impact of like, you know, I had a little bit of a fast fashion thing myself.
00:41:57.940 Like I would buy from this brand, is it Shein, where, you know, it's like, it's so cheap and it like, it looks like the fancier stuff, but it's so cheap.
00:42:08.700 Then it's like, well, you're like, actually, it is one of the biggest offenders of fast fashion that ends up, you know, polluting our world.
00:42:16.900 And it's like, I don't want to be, I don't want, like, I don't want my unexamined emotional need to translate to a worst world for the next generation to come.
00:42:29.780 And so I really kind of saw the, like, need for me to do a little bit of thinking and unpacking and intention around my own consumption habits and what I was trying to fill by buying things and the longer-term consequences for generations to come.
00:42:43.680 I know that sounds like a lot, but, like, you got to start somewhere.
00:42:46.240 Right. No, it absolutely goes hand in hand again with the new creators that the people who are getting big on TikTok are those who are like, hey, you're doing these things.
00:42:57.400 And it could be, of course, this is a whole different conversation about diagnosing and assuming everybody's one thing or another.
00:43:03.440 But it does call out to be like, hey, you have this reaction, which could be costing you money, costing you time because of a trauma.
00:43:10.160 So you're focusing on the wrong thing.
00:43:12.120 Like, I do love seeing them correlate actual action to internalized trauma or maybe reasoning, however you want to say it.
00:43:22.780 But it is encouraging to see that there's more correlations that these influencers slash TikTok people are talking about out loud.
00:43:30.020 So you start considering the actual basis of consuming too much or consuming way too fast or not thinking about it.
00:43:38.540 And it's both encouraging and kind of scary to see how quickly this could flip because we really did go from a generation of we have to be perfect.
00:43:47.520 We have to look perfect. 0.59
00:43:48.760 We have to be the Kardashians, white girl version.
00:43:52.560 What I mean by that is that skinny, skinny version. 0.79
00:43:55.040 You know.
00:43:56.040 You know what I'm talking about.
00:43:59.780 But two, like coming into loving your body, do things that are healthy for you, do things that make you happy, do things that bring you joy.
00:44:07.000 and then going into, and that comes to having peace of mind
00:44:11.320 and this is how you do it.
00:44:13.080 And so it's kind of interesting to see how we flip there,
00:44:15.520 but we are at this cusp of like, it could flip again.
00:44:19.220 And is it going to be healthy or unhealthy?
00:44:21.780 I think, again, TikTok is encouraging to me
00:44:25.560 to see the creators that I'm seeing.
00:44:28.220 That's such a good point.
00:44:29.780 And I think, you know, the bottom line of this
00:44:32.780 is that you cannot consume yourself
00:44:35.440 into feeling like a complete version of yourself,
00:44:38.420 to feeling whole.
00:44:39.760 You know, I talked earlier about
00:44:41.900 how I get really kind of stuck on these, like,
00:44:45.160 people who are full-time creatives
00:44:47.580 or full-time creative professionals
00:44:48.720 and the way that work gets done in their lives
00:44:51.500 and how it looks so good to me.
00:44:53.320 It looks like they're very together.
00:44:54.960 Like, they've got lists.
00:44:55.760 They look very organized and very cozy and very peaceful.
00:44:58.440 And that clearly that is speaking to some kind of perception
00:45:01.400 that I have internally that I am not enough.
00:45:03.860 There's something I can buy
00:45:04.720 that it's going to make me feel enough.
00:45:05.920 I have to just get there through self-work,
00:45:09.640 through growth, through introspection.
00:45:11.760 I completely understand the need to just hit buy now.
00:45:16.080 And if I get everything that this woman has in her house, 0.52
00:45:18.260 maybe I'll get it, but I won't. 1.00
00:45:19.760 You can't consume your way into,
00:45:23.160 I guess, feeling good about what you've got,
00:45:27.680 feeling good about who you are,
00:45:29.020 feeling good at like feeling it like yourself
00:45:31.780 and feeling like that's enough.
00:45:32.840 There's just not a product that's going to do that.
00:45:34.960 It's going to take work.
00:45:37.040 And so I think, you know, it's definitely easier to just buy a thing.
00:45:41.500 And boy, do I keep trying.
00:45:45.580 I know.
00:45:46.360 I just got some tease that I went viral.
00:45:49.360 We won't talk about that more.
00:45:50.820 Oh, I mean, I'm like, I don't want this to sound judgy because like who amongst us, right?
00:45:55.140 Like I am, we're all works in progress.
00:45:57.400 But if you are interested in trying to unwork, unpack some of this, like de-influence yourself,
00:46:04.080 first I should say, like, I am not a professional.
00:46:05.860 So if you are someone listening and you think that you really might have a true issue with, like,
00:46:11.320 buying things and shopping that you might need to talk to somebody about, you should do that.
00:46:15.500 Talk to a professional if you feel like your issue rises beyond, you know, what we're talking about here.
00:46:20.860 But a couple of tips that might help folks de-influence themselves.
00:46:23.600 My favorite sleeper tip is that if you have an iPhone,
00:46:26.840 or I think it works on Android too,
00:46:28.720 using your phone in grayscale.
00:46:31.460 My phone is in grayscale probably 90% of the time.
00:46:35.380 You can go into your accessibility settings on your iPhone
00:46:38.280 and change your phone to grayscale.
00:46:40.640 And I have it so that the little button on the side,
00:46:42.680 the power button, if I hit that three times,
00:46:45.280 it flips from grayscale to color.
00:46:47.040 So if somebody sends me a picture where it's like,
00:46:49.120 oh, I need to see this in color to get the context,
00:46:51.400 I can easily, you know, flip it to color, flip it back.
00:46:54.720 When I tell you that it makes things on your phone look so much less enticing and less
00:47:02.060 appealing, and I can absolutely feel it when I'm looking at my phone in color, I can feel
00:47:07.520 the little synapses and neurons going off in my brain that tell me, buy this, click
00:47:12.760 that, look at that, read that.
00:47:14.720 And it makes the experience of using social media more boring, but in a good way.
00:47:21.120 I feel a lot more in control when all of these bright colors that are literally designed by people who make lots and lots of money to, like, you know, fire things in your brain and to get you to be as tuned in and as plugged in as you can.
00:47:38.300 And so I'm a big fan of, like, trying to throw a wrench in this techno hacking that messes with all of our brains.
00:47:47.740 So try to put your phone in grayscale.
00:47:49.340 I love it.
00:47:49.880 Another one is that when you feel that twitch in your brain that says, I need this, don't click buy right away, right?
00:47:56.760 Like, ask yourself, does this fill a legitimate need in my life?
00:48:01.380 If you're Samantha's partner, is it just another vessel with which to drink coffee or liquids out of?
00:48:07.020 Do I already have a vessel or several vessels that meet that need?
00:48:14.680 I'm going to throw it out.
00:48:15.800 and then yeah like notice your emotions like when you feel influenced really ask like do I feel the
00:48:23.720 need to buy this because it is serving an emotional need or filling an emotional hole that I have
00:48:28.640 and what's that about you can really just start small just asking huh isn't that interesting be
00:48:33.260 curious about the emotions that are sparked for you when you're using social media my therapist
00:48:38.100 always says that judgment and curiosity cannot coexist. And so rather than being like, oh,
00:48:45.040 you just are so bad with money, you just throw money away, you just cannot stop shopping online,
00:48:50.460 that's judgment. And so when you're judging the way that you feel, when you're judging your
00:48:53.700 emotions, you can't be curious about them. Curiosity is how we get to someplace better
00:48:57.520 and like move forward. And then lastly, learn to love what you already have. You know, I spent so
00:49:04.440 long chasing micro trends and quick hit trends that when I look in my closet, there are things
00:49:10.240 in there that I love that I don't even really know where they are. I don't even have access to them
00:49:14.960 or see them because my closet is so full of like stuff that I bought that I didn't even really
00:49:19.860 think about. And so it makes it harder for me to love the things that I actually do have that feel
00:49:24.580 good. And so the things that I really do value and like, because there are plenty of things that I
00:49:28.280 bought where I'm like, oh, that was, I do not regret that choice. That was a good buy. It makes
00:49:32.280 it harder to really appreciate the things
00:49:34.400 that are good buys and have them stand out 0.98
00:49:36.280 when you just buy so much crap that you 0.60
00:49:38.280 don't even really need. Right. 0.98
00:49:40.960 Organize, because you will find
00:49:42.220 that thing you love that you forgot about for two years.
00:49:44.420 Shop your closet. If you do that, you go,
00:49:46.120 oh, look at that. Shop your closet.
00:49:48.900 Exactly. Yes.
00:49:50.380 During the pandemic, I remember
00:49:52.440 there were a couple times where I was like,
00:49:53.820 I really, really want this thing. And then
00:49:56.100 I would look through my closet and I already have that thing.
00:50:00.080 Yes.
00:50:02.280 I can't tell you how many times it's happened
00:50:03.780 where I'm like, I'm like doing reruns.
00:50:05.460 Like I'm already in reruns on my closet.
00:50:07.600 Like, what is this?
00:50:09.540 And then like, if you're me anyway,
00:50:11.500 I wear like the same t-shirt like for an entire week.
00:50:14.500 So yeah.
00:50:16.500 Yeah.
00:50:17.380 Buying new clothes just to wear your uniform every day.
00:50:20.180 Like, what are we doing?
00:50:21.020 Right.
00:50:23.660 Yes.
00:50:24.300 Well, thank you as always, Bridget,
00:50:26.340 for bringing this topic to us.
00:50:28.880 It was very informative for me.
00:50:30.980 I had not heard of this.
00:50:32.060 So this is amazing.
00:50:33.080 I love it.
00:50:33.500 I love it.
00:50:33.780 I love it.
00:50:34.640 Yes.
00:50:35.080 Where can the good listeners find you?
00:50:37.060 Well, you can always tune into my podcast on this very same network. 1.00
00:50:40.420 There are no girls on the internet. 0.97
00:50:42.000 You can follow me on Instagram at BridgetMarieNDC.
00:50:44.420 I will not influence you, Ros.
00:50:46.420 I can't promise that I will never, but you know how it is.
00:50:49.980 Who knows?
00:50:50.540 Like, we got to eat.
00:50:52.260 No, I'm just kidding.
00:50:53.520 Or you can follow me on Twitter at BridgetMarie.
00:50:56.520 I love it.
00:50:57.780 Yes.
00:50:58.180 Go check those out.
00:50:59.720 If you haven't already, listeners, thank you again, Bridget,
00:51:01.780 for coming we love having you can't wait to have you again yes yes uh and listeners if you would
00:51:07.940 like to contact us you can or email us stephaniamomstuff at iheartmedia.com you can
00:51:12.320 find us on twitter at momstuffpodcast or on instagram and tiktok what at stuff mom never
00:51:17.640 told you thanks as always to our super producer christina thank you and thanks to you for
00:51:22.440 listening stuff whenever told you's production of iheart radio for more podcasts my heart radio
00:51:25.660 you can check out the iheart radio app apple podcasts wherever you listen to your favorite
00:51:28.220 I survived nine months in captivity and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive
00:51:46.620 what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the Survivor Files. Every
00:51:52.620 week i'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable abducted stalked controlled and
00:51:58.400 nearly silenced these are stories about what it takes to make it out alive listen to the survivor
00:52:04.820 files with elizabeth smart on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts
00:52:11.320 if your bookshelf and your for you page are equally important to your personality welcome home
00:52:16.400 pro society is a weekly podcast that's part book club part group chat for anyone who thinks pride
00:52:22.300 and Prejudice and Love Island to serve the same level of discourse. Each week, we're connecting
00:52:26.600 the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk
00:52:31.220 creators, and plenty of overthought opinions. Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. Listen to Pro
00:52:36.380 Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Why do some
00:52:42.620 women yearn for Shakira's black hair to make a comeback? And whatever happened to the power 1.00
00:52:48.260 couple of my dreams, Mariah Carey and Luis Miguel. I'm Maria Garcia. You may remember me from my
00:52:55.140 podcast, Anything for Selena or My Divo. And now I'm back to unpack more stories from the present
00:53:01.500 and the past. Listen to Muy Excited with Maria Garcia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
00:53:07.640 or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.