00:01:55.260since Halle Berry back in 2002. For her iconic film, Everything, Everywhere, All at Once.
00:02:01.560Now, celebrating these kinds of wins is always a little bit bittersweet for me. Because on the
00:02:06.560one hand, it's important to acknowledge these historic achievements. But on the other hand,
00:02:12.140I'm like, it's 2023. What took you all so long? You know, why are we celebrating historic firsts
00:02:18.200in 2023. It's complicated. So I joined the iconic April Rain, creator of the viral hashtag turned
00:02:25.860movement, Oscar So White, and Dr. John Paul, screenwriter and co-host of the iHeartRadio
00:02:32.300groundbreaking podcast, BFF, Black, Fat, and Fem, for our Twitter spaces about how marginalized
00:02:38.480creators are still celebrating our brilliance and creativity, even when we're in industries
00:02:43.320that don't always recognize it with us.
00:02:48.200y'all this is actually my very first ever spaces i have ever moderated so
00:02:55.920you know it's gonna go great it's gonna be fantastic thank you all for joining us today
00:03:01.980my name is bridget todd i am the director of public communications with ultraviolet
00:03:06.520a national gender justice organization and the creator and host of iheart radio's
00:03:11.580tech and culture podcast there are no girls on the internet and like a lot of y'all i just watched
00:03:17.000the Oscars. I have a lot to say. This year's Oscars, you know, there were some historic wins,
00:03:23.380but unfortunately, as we're pretty used to, some pretty big snubs as well. And instead of having
00:03:28.660that same old conversation about why Hollywood keeps overlooking us, we really wanted to take
00:03:34.180this opportunity to flip the script a little bit and say, you know, we are here, we are brilliant,
00:03:38.980you make good work. And if the powers that be don't recognize that, it is on them and not us.
00:03:44.520And to do that, I am joined by an iconic duo that I cannot wait to introduce, April Rain.
00:03:51.160You might know April Rain as the creator of the online movement, Oscar So White, and screenwriter and all-around Hollywood screenwriter badass, Dr. John Paul.
00:04:03.660Thank you both so much for being here today.
00:04:07.240Thank you for having us. Very excited to be here on Spaces with you.
00:04:11.040Yeah, same. I'm really happy to be in such good spaces with good people. So this is going to be
00:04:16.280a really good time. So I would love to get started by both of you just sort of quickly
00:04:21.080introducing yourself and telling us your connection to Hollywood for folks that might
00:04:25.680not know or to the entertainment industry for folks that might not know.
00:04:31.360I guess I'll go first. As you mentioned, Bridget, I created Oscars So White in January of 2015.
00:04:39.860Before that time, I had no nexus to the entertainment industry, except that I loved TV and film and stage.
00:04:48.440So I was an avid consumer of all of that.
00:04:51.260And since Oscar So White, I've become an equity and inclusion consultant in the entertainment industry and have been working in this capacity for eight years now.
00:08:22.600Because if the right stories aren't being made,
00:08:25.140then no you're not going to get nominations because the work just isn't there
00:08:29.300Dr. John can you relate to what April is saying? Yeah I think that that's part of the reason why
00:08:35.340I mean I know for me watching television and what I mean I always so I tweeted this yesterday before
00:08:41.600the Oscars the tweet you know that they showed Viola winning the Emmy and she said basically
00:08:46.820and so and I don't know the verbatim what she said but she said you can't win an Emmy for roles that
00:08:52.220are not there. And I think that's been the thing that's been so frustrating, right? So we're
00:08:56.060looking at, and I say all oppression is cyclical and it's all connected, but I think that's been
00:09:01.380my biggest frustration. We're critiqued for not, we get people, oh, well, you're mad that you
00:09:07.020didn't win. Well, no, it's more than that. It's the idea that we're not even given a chance to
00:09:11.920win. And when we do get a chance to win, there's so little room for opportunity for us to win that
00:09:18.180you know, that it's, it's just, it's, it's, it's really interesting. I wrote a whole bunch of
00:09:23.840thoughts down and it's funny because I'm trying not to like go off on this long tangent of how
00:09:28.260frustrated I am. But I think my biggest thing is with the industry kind of going back to April's
00:09:33.620point, you know, there are so many folks that are, that are looking at us as us being angry
00:09:38.760and saying, well, you're just upset. You should be happy that you're even recognized. And it's
00:09:42.860like, no, we shouldn't be happy for one or two pieces of breadcrumbs that the industry is
00:09:49.680throwing at us. That's what it feels like at this point, that folks are throwing us breadcrumbs and
00:09:53.700saying, here, just be happy you have something to eat, you know? So. Absolutely. Dr. John, I mean,
00:09:58.760this space has kind of came from a place of frustration that I really saw beautifully
00:10:03.180echoed in your piece for BET called Black Oscar Snubs Say More About the Industry That It Does
00:10:07.980About Black Creators. One of my favorite lines from that piece I'll read right now. Admittedly,
00:10:12.280While much of the conversation around the Academy not nominating Black films has grown a bit stale, along with conversations about Black people needing to start their own, what folks often fail to explore is what these snubs really say about the industry as a whole.
00:10:25.140Yes, while it might sting that we continue to be overlooked, we have to remember that our stories and creativity being overlooked has more about the Academy and its voters than it would ever say about us.
00:10:34.700And I guess my first question is, what do you think it says about the Academy and the voters? And just a question for both of you, like, how do we shift the conversation? How do we have a different conversation that's not the same conversation we have every award season that's like, oh, they're not seeing us, we're overlooked, we're being snubbed, and that is really grounded in the fact that we make dope shit, and if people can't see that, that is on them and not on us.
00:11:00.360Yeah, if I can before, you know, Queen April Rose, I call her Queen April. Before April goes, I did want to say that one of the notes that I made last night was and I said I was going to save it for this space because oftentimes tweets can get lost in translation.
00:11:16.160And so I wanted to be able to say what was on my mind, but also be able to kind of back it by what I mean by it.
00:11:22.140And I said, you know, what I wrote down is I keep thinking about why Black films and shows never get to sweep award shows.
00:11:29.100And honestly, it's just a way to keep Black creators and creatives humble and leveled.
00:11:33.580And I think that's the thing that I want us to really kind of like think about.
00:11:37.940Right. Why have we like even when Black Panther came out, even with all of the money Black Panther made, even with all that it did to kind of shake and change the way we think about television or even film.
00:11:50.220Right. There were only a few awards that were given to the folks who were connected to Black Panther.
00:11:56.360And I think that there are two things that are at play.
00:11:58.980I said, the industry not wanting Black creators or people to feel too powerful and to make sure
00:12:03.900that we remember that what our place is, is not only in just the industry, but the world, right?0.99
00:12:08.460The idea that if we have to acknowledge that Black creators make dope shit and that it's0.99
00:12:13.020going to make stuff that's going to be bigger than we could ever make, then you are ultimately0.99
00:12:16.800saying that I have to show up and I actually have to do the work and work harder. And to
00:12:23.340acknowledge that we are talented, even with all the hoops they put us through means we are so
00:12:27.880remarkably powerful something that no one not i would say no white creator ever wants to say to1.00
00:12:34.240us they never want to admit that black people are the shit and so i think that that's the thing that0.99
00:12:39.060i was really trying to get out in this piece right the notion is it's not just about us not winning1.00
00:12:44.060it's the opportunities not being given to us to win it's because they never want to have to
00:12:48.620acknowledge that what we could ever do is greater than what they could ever conceive
00:12:52.480Yeah, I'm not even trying to follow. I just kept my mic on. Yeah, I think, you know, there's been a long standing question about validation, right, and seeking validation from white sources.
00:13:14.240And so since I created Oscars So White, I've heard the pushback. Why do we even care? Why should we even be looking to the white folks to give us a handout or yada yada and all that? And there is some truth to that. I absolutely understand that argument.
00:13:32.120And which is why I think we need to remember that there are places where we are validated by our own. Right. There's the Alma Awards, the GLAAD Awards, the NAACP Awards, who all focus on marginalized communities and the recognition that they deserve.
00:13:53.940With respect to the Oscars, I think it can be both and, right? We want respect and validation from our peers within our community, but we also deserve validation from the industry as a whole.
00:14:11.840We can absolutely have the conversation about what if the Oscars should be considered the pinnacle in film awards, in part because of who the voting membership is, in part because they haven't translated an award win or even a nomination isn't translatable for most, especially people of color, into increased opportunities.
00:14:38.840there's a long list of reasons why maybe the Oscars shouldn't be seen as the end all and be
00:14:45.000all. But as of right now, for better or worse, the Oscars are considered the pinnacle, right?
00:14:52.520And regardless of whether you are a fry cook at McDonald's or a CEO of a Fortune 100 corporation,
00:15:00.660you want to be recognized by people within your industry. That matters, right? There's a reason
00:15:07.460why we talk about the fact that Beyonce still hasn't won the album of the year Grammy. It's
00:15:13.760the same type of thing. Even though we know that those particular legacy institutions don't deserve
00:15:21.020our creativity, it is more a question of being recognized by
00:15:27.420what is considered to be the pinnacle in your particular industry.
00:16:29.620When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.
00:16:34.860I survived and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed
00:16:40.840them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low taunting
00:16:48.380voice next to my ear saying shut up don't say anything. Every week I'm with survivors who
00:16:55.980live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up without a doubt he was going to hurt me. I
00:17:02.800I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.
00:17:10.160They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:17:14.140But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.
00:17:17.580They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:17:20.720Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:17:32.800and we're back absolutely and i think that you really drill into one of the reasons why
00:17:41.340when people are like oh just make your own awards it's really a yes and right like i do think that
00:17:46.820we need to you know be excited about all the different awards that are are out there that
00:17:52.040recognize marginalized talent but also it's normal to want to be recognized by industry standards
00:17:57.640And so the conversation really could be like, well, should the Oscars be the end-all be-all of what is considered the standard in the industry?
00:18:05.500That is, for better or for worse, that is what the situation is right now.
00:18:09.080And so saying like, oh, make your own award show, just really falls short and doesn't really capture what is actually happening and what folks are actually dealing with.
00:18:25.600and why should we be so concerned and why do we need to have black history month we need to have
00:18:31.000you know one history you know we need to celebrate our similarities and whatever okay but if that's
00:18:37.860true then why is it that when we you know leave you all to your own devices you say things like
00:18:44.400well i couldn't pronounce lupita and yongo and so i didn't even watch 12 years of slave much less
00:18:49.040vote for her for you know best actress or best supporting actress right when left to their own
00:18:54.900devices, these same folks who say that they don't see race, they don't see color, and they don't
00:19:00.020understand why we need to have our own special thing, aren't interested in recognizing our
00:19:06.180excellence within their own bodies. And so that's why it's important that we ensure that we have
00:19:12.400these other organizations that are just as important that celebrate us. Yeah. And if I can
00:19:19.740add to that, I think the other thing that I really want folks to get in all that we're saying
00:19:24.840And I hear us kind of saying we are all on the same wavelength, but I think the bigger thing for me is it's not just about the validation. It's the idea of knowing how much it took for us to get to the Oscars, like the thought of how much it takes for like, even for me as a black writer, right? I I'm still pre WGA and I'm still trying to break in and I'm still trying to get an opportunity. And I've done a lot of, excuse me, I've done a lot of shit in the last eight years and I'm still fighting to get in. Right.
00:19:50.960And so for me to get to the Oscars or for me to get to the Emmys, that's validating me as a Black queer creator and saying, you went through all of that and you created this amazing thing for so many people who saw themselves.
00:20:04.320And now we want to give you the validation you deserve by saying you did that even when you had nothing, right?
00:20:10.820And so I think that, you know, the thing that really pains me in this conversation when we talk about the Oscars, it's not about losing, right?0.96
00:20:17.140it's really knowing that there are so many black brown queer non-binary people who are pouring0.71
00:20:23.300their hearts into the work that they're doing and it's basically being snubbed with a simple
00:20:27.760it's not good enough or there's not that many people who can relate and it's like well if
00:20:32.640you're not giving it the space or the opportunity or the grace for folks to be able to connect to it
00:20:36.980then how is it going to ever change the system that that it's that it's meant to live in you
00:20:41.980know? Absolutely. And like, not to go off on a, I know I'm a moderator, but not to go off on a
00:20:46.960tangent, but I see that time and time again, when black stories, brown stories, queer stories,
00:20:52.180trans stories are not really given that space to grow. Like they'll get a season on Netflix and
00:20:57.680then they'll get pulled and then, and it'll be like, oh, well, why didn't it do better? And it's
00:21:01.780like, well, you didn't really support it. You didn't really give it a chance to grow. And when
00:21:05.400somebody else comes and wants to tell their black story or their queer story or their trans story,
00:21:10.680They're going to look and say, oh, well, this one, it only lasted for a season, but actually including the fact that, like, well, we didn't really support it and we didn't, you know, we didn't really give it a chance to breathe or grow.
00:21:24.000And that's really, that's an issue that we don't talk about enough.
00:21:29.040So a TV studio or a movie studio will put out a show that is, quote unquote, diverse or whatever, you know, whatever that means to them.
00:21:39.420Right. And then but they don't support the show or the film.
00:21:43.540And then they're like, oh, we can't figure out why it didn't work.
00:21:46.500But we're never going to try that again.
00:21:47.900You know, so famously, for example, Ava DuVernay said that the distribution company for her film Selma in 2014 did not send out the screeners to the Academy members.
00:22:03.020You know, not everybody wants to go to a theater to see a particular film.
00:22:07.920So to get those films out there and seen by the folks who vote for them, very often they send screeners, DVD or, you know, they send it through the laptop or whatever so that people can view them in the privacy of their own home.
00:22:22.360Well, if a distribution company decides that they're not going to send that out, then how does one see it in order to vote for it?
00:22:29.640Right. So, yeah, you can say, oh, we made a quote unquote black film.0.84
00:22:33.420And that's not even a phrase that I like to use. Right. Because we never say white film, straight film or whatever. Right. So I don't like to use that film. I prefer that phrase. I prefer to say, you know, films that reflect an aspect of the black experience. It's a lot longer.
00:22:49.460a sexy hashtag but it is more accurate so anyway um so even when selma came out and was a fantastic
00:22:59.460film the distribution companies can say oh yeah well we you know we made a black film it's like
00:23:04.140but if you didn't support it then you know when it doesn't do well at the box office when it
00:23:09.520doesn't do well during award seasons then you can go back and say oh well we tried but we don't know
00:23:14.540what happened and so we're not going to try and do more of that right and so then it becomes a
00:23:19.480vicious cycle so they put it out there begrudgingly but they don't support it all the way through
00:23:24.940to the very end the the other little piece of inside baseball i wanted to share is that when
00:23:29.660it comes to award season um film companies and studios have a finite marketing budget and so if
00:23:39.540a particular uh company like a24 or paramount or you know whatever mgm says that you know they put
00:23:46.920out eight films over the course of the year they decide relatively early on based on everything
00:23:54.500that they're seeing which films they think are going to do the best at award season and then
00:24:01.820they put their marketing dollars behind those films so if they choose two out of the eight that
00:24:08.560they had over the year and you know the other six actually featured marginalized or traditional
00:24:15.560traditionally underrepresented communities they're going to get paid dust and they're going to go0.98
00:24:20.380with the war film you know or whatever or the back office match because it's the same shit every0.93
00:24:26.300single year um and those are the ones that they're going to promote during award season and the other0.61
00:24:31.780And when they're left out to dry to, you know, to attempt to stir up award buzz all on their own.
00:27:34.120Yeah, you know, I think for me, and that's the hard part about, I think, about being, you know, it's funny because this conversation just reminds me so much of the combo I was having with a friend.
00:27:45.460And we were talking about the crabs in the barrel mentality and the question of why are crabs in the barrel in the first place?
00:27:52.060Like, why do we should be in the ocean?
00:27:58.780Like, why aren't crabs in the ocean?0.91
00:28:01.240But not to divert from your question, I think the biggest thing for me is that, you know, when we're so marginalized and when marginalized people have only been given scraps, right, they feel like they should celebrate whatever they can get.0.53
00:28:15.460And I think that that's the thing that I think is so frustrating, right?0.60
00:28:18.300Because it should not be in a situation where we have to pick and choose between whether
00:28:22.780we celebrate Angela Bassett winning versus Jamie Lee Curtis, right?
00:28:26.680It needs to be like, we're looking at this notion of the reason why people are so upset
00:28:31.000that Angela didn't win is because for years, Angela has shown up and has done the work
00:28:35.260and has fought and has continued to keep showing up and is still not getting what she deserves,
00:28:39.920So I think that's the frustrating part.0.98
00:28:41.780For me, it's like, while I really want to be happy and I want to be excited about the wins for other people, there's this long history that continues to keep telling us we've had 95 years with the Oscars telling us we don't give two shits about Black people when a Black woman has only won two.0.92
00:29:02.940So it's just, you know, I don't know if I'm making sense, but I guess for me, it's frustrating that we have to constantly celebrate the little bit that we get when there should be so much more progression.
00:29:15.640I guess that's the bigger point I'm trying to make.
00:29:19.080It's always going to be bittersweet for me because, as Dr. John Paul said, we shouldn't still be celebrating first in 2023.1.00
00:29:29.520you know and so that's the really frustrating part that every time someone from a traditionally
00:29:38.840underrepresented community wins yes we're excited but it's like damn why did it take all this and
00:29:45.260and part of that is because as talented as that person was we know that there was someone before
00:29:52.840them that should have won right Angela Bassett this should be at least her second Oscar win
00:29:59.340you know starting back with what's love got to do with it and you can choose whatever else you
00:30:04.120want to put in there let them know right right for her to still be zero and zero for two
00:30:10.400nominations um is disrespectful at this point and and you know there was a whole bunch of talk about
00:30:18.280oh she you know she didn't whatever she didn't clap loud and laugh or whatever and it's like
00:30:23.060listen, she displayed a very human response, right? In that moment, after all that she has
00:30:32.360given this industry, to be looked over again has to be heartbreaking. It takes nothing away from
00:30:43.260Jamie Lee Curtis. You know, there's a reason why I don't talk about snubs, because when you say
00:30:49.420that someone has been snubbed, then the follow-up question always is, well, you know, if they should
00:30:54.880have been nominated, then who would you take out? And that's not fair, right? Because all of the
00:30:59.400performances were great, but we know that some rise to the challenge more than others. And we
00:31:07.540also know that Academy voters vote sometimes based on legacy, history of work, right? Because for
00:31:18.060For example, you can't tell me that Al Pacino winning the Oscar for Hua, what Scent of a Woman, was better than him winning for Godfather 2, for Serpico, for Dog Day Afternoon, like you name it.
00:31:33.600But in my mind, you know, nobody will ever say it out loud, but in my mind, he won for Scent of a Woman because it was based on a body of work.
00:31:43.260You know, we don't know how much longer Al is going to be acting.
00:31:45.860overall he's a fantastic actor perhaps this wasn't his best performance but let's go ahead
00:31:50.440and give it to him right and that's not the way things should be i believe because i i get this0.99
00:31:57.120a lot oh well you just want the black people to win or the queer people or whatever it's like no
00:32:01.240i believe that movie awards nominations and wins and all awards shouldn't be you know participation
00:32:10.220trophies. They should be based on merit. But the Academy voters are not required to view the films
00:32:18.460before they vote. I want to hear you. Thank you. Underline that three times.
00:32:24.580I feel like you might not know this. So that means that they're voting because they know
00:32:31.500the director or like the director. Or again, as I said, maybe it's a legacy win. Or they didn't
00:32:36.500voted all. It was their manager slash agent slash publicist who filled out the ballot. It's all of
00:32:42.180these things other than, yes, I watched all of the nominees in this category and I believe this was
00:32:48.780the best of the five or the 10, right? And that means because the Academy voting members are
00:32:56.660still overwhelmingly white and overwhelmingly male, then that means what we really have here
00:33:02.580is a popularity contest amongst older white men.
00:33:09.060Exactly. And I guess, I guess, oh, sorry, Dr. John.
00:33:12.300I was just going to say that old boys club is go always strike, honey.
00:33:17.660Yes. And I guess sort of like against the backdrop of this being the sort of like
00:33:22.020industry voting body and how it works as creative and industry professionals in this space,
00:33:28.140like what fills your cup? How do both of you say tapped into your like
00:33:32.160Black brilliance against this backdrop that we know can be so, that just can be so bad at seeing0.99
00:33:37.980y'all. April, I don't know if you want to take it first, but I was going to say, I think you,1.00
00:33:46.560you ask a really interesting question and it's funny because I get people who reach out to me
00:33:50.720a lot and say, you know, we follow you on social and we see you winning over here, especially like
00:33:55.580now my podcast is taking off and now I'm doing all of these little things. And I have so many
00:34:00.840people reaching out and saying, you inspire me, how do you stay inspired? And I think it's really
00:34:06.280looking at other creators who, you know, like, I know, I know, for me, like, I know that smile
00:34:13.060that Angela Bassett had last night was a pained smile. But there was an element to me when I
00:34:18.480looked at when I looked at that clip again, and seeing in her face, it was like, I know I did the
00:34:24.260best that I could do. And that's got to be enough. And I think that that's what's been holding me
00:34:29.160these last couple of months slash years as I've been in the industry, is knowing that my good
00:34:34.340enough is going to have to be good enough. And that I'm not going to constantly keep equating
00:34:39.120it to what my white colleagues are doing in their lane. I recognize that the fields are greener0.53
00:34:44.840with pasture for them. But I know for me, what I'm going to do over here is my best. And I'm
00:34:49.720going to do my best to make sure that I encourage those who are around me. So I think that that's
00:34:54.180really what holds me in this space is just saying, you know, like what Mariah's saying,
00:34:59.400I'm going to do the best I can with what I got. That's it. That's it. If you hear snaps over here,
00:35:04.760that's just me snapping along. That is beautiful. That is beautiful. I think for me, it's those
00:35:13.040glimmers of hope that I see every now and again. For example, Melvin Van Peebles and Julie Dash
00:35:21.860are now members of the Academy since Oscars So White. In my mind, they should have been members
00:35:27.880decades ago because of their seminal work. But because of the way the Oscars used to be with
00:35:34.140respect to inducting members, they had not been invited. So there's that. If watching Ava DuVernay
00:35:43.880do, what, seven years, seven seasons of Clean Sugar and have nothing but female directors,
00:35:52.980that, you know, gives me hope and keeps me energized. Because what folks don't realize0.99
00:35:58.620is you can do a full feature two-hour film and still not be able to get a job to, you know,
00:36:07.200direct or show run a 30 minute show on TV. You would think that things would, you know, that
00:36:14.400the skills are transferable, but again, it's all about the opportunities. Seeing Marse Martin be
00:36:23.140the youngest person to ever produce a film that did really well at the box office, things like
00:36:30.560that give me hope and energy. You know, it's finally seeing Key and Michelle, yo, win last
00:36:39.680night. And the way that Asian and AAPI folks are finally, you know, getting a little bit of the
00:36:48.520spotlight in the entertainment industry, despite decades and decades of phenomenal work. Those
00:36:55.200things all make me very happy to see but it's obvious that we have so much more to go we have
00:37:02.060so much more work to do um before i let you go april i have one curveball question for you
00:37:07.740i know you were the co-founder of sister scotus a campaign to advocate for getting a black woman0.98
00:37:12.320on the supreme court and you did that shit how does that feel man thanks for that it feels0.98
00:37:19.140amazing. You know, it was me and three other Black women who assembled like Voltron and0.99
00:37:24.380knew that we couldn't start the campaign once President Biden, once there was a vacancy on
00:37:34.080the Supreme Court, right? Because people don't really think about or care about judicial
00:37:38.580nominations in the same way that they do, you know, for example, presidential campaigns.
00:37:42.400And so we started work in 2020 when Biden at still nominee Biden, you know, Senator Biden, campaign front runner Biden promised to nominate a black woman to the Supreme Court.
00:37:59.320And so now seeing her up there, it's fantastic because we know slowly but surely, again, nothing happens overnight, but slowly but surely she is going to have an impact that will last generations.
00:38:11.220And now that she is there, that ceiling is broken and it's time to get even more people from marginalized communities on the court, because I think that people don't realize how important the Supreme Court is with respect to the changes that can be made.
00:38:27.400And only now that Roe v. Wade has been overturned and other things are happening with respect to affirmative action and, you know, voting rights and all of those, that people are really starting to wake up, perhaps in a way that they weren't before, about how important the Supreme Court and judicial nominations and confirmations are throughout the country, not just at the Supreme Court level, but even at the local and judicial level.
00:38:52.720I am so grateful for your work in the space, both of you.