There Are No Girls on the Internet - Introducing podcast “Long Shadow： Breaking the Internet” - EPISODE DROP

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00:00:39.100 welcome home.

00:00:40.700 Pro Society is a weekly podcast

00:00:42.560 that's part book club, part group chat

00:00:44.480 for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice

00:00:46.180 and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

00:00:48.920 Each week, we're connecting the dots

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00:00:52.460 with your favorite writers, book talk creators,

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00:01:05.020 I survived nine months in captivity,

00:01:07.980 and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive

00:01:11.700 what should have destroyed them.

00:01:13.700 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.

00:01:17.400 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable,

00:01:21.100 abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:01:24.740 These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

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00:01:54.740 We recommend some of our recent episodes with Ben Stiller, Danny McBride, Riz Ahmed, and Mary Steenburgen.

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00:02:10.640 There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.

00:02:18.760 I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.

00:02:21.460 this week we're doing something a little bit different instead of our normal news roundup

00:02:28.800 i'm so excited to share an episode of the peabody award-nominated podcast long shadow

00:02:33.840 breaking the internet this is the first episode of their new season which dives into the history

00:02:39.160 of the internet it's hosted by pulitzer prize finalist and historian garrett graff and charts

00:02:44.640 the evolution of the internet from the optimistic days of the dot-com boom to our present moment

00:02:49.600 It's an ambitious project produced by Longlead and distributed by PRX, a seven-part series exploring how choices made by tech companies and others in those early days shaped the Internet into what it is today.

00:03:01.520 In this specific episode, the first in the seven-part series, you'll travel back in time to 1993.

00:03:08.040 Gas is just over a dollar a gallon.

00:03:10.120 The minimum wage is $4.25 an hour.

00:03:12.420 Mass media is hitting its apex, and American culture seems to be getting ever more homogenous.

00:03:17.900 And somewhere in the background of all of that, this new thing called the World Wide Web just became available to the general public. 0.81

00:03:25.060 Then, Y2K threatened to shut it all down forever.

00:03:28.900 If you liked this episode, be sure to follow Long Shadow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:03:35.760 Now, here's the full episode.

00:03:40.140 When was the last time you felt good about the Internet?

00:03:44.340 The online landscape today is a harrowing one.

00:03:47.740 People screaming at each other on social media, violent videos going viral, cyberbullying, racism, misogyny.

00:03:55.700 It's hard to say for sure where the web started to turn sour.

00:04:00.340 But a case can be made that the last good day of the Internet was February 26th, 2015.

00:04:07.120 How could we not start with this video?

00:04:09.360 Two llamas on the run in Sun City for hours today.

00:04:14.480 That morning, people around the country were huddling around their monitors.

00:04:18.460 A news event was unfolding that was holding the internet in a trance.

00:04:22.320 The must-see video of the day, llamas on the loose in the valley.

00:04:26.700 They were at an event.

00:04:27.460 A pair of llamas had escaped from a visit to a nursing home in Sun City, Arizona.

00:04:32.240 A man let go of his rope, and before we knew it, it was llamas day out here in Sun City.

00:04:37.600 So we're double-choppering the two llamas for the day.

00:04:41.540 Helicopter crews documented the chase as the llamas dodged handlers

00:04:45.620 and wove in and out of oncoming traffic.

00:04:52.100 This is crazy.

00:04:53.280 It would be really neat to be in those cars on the streets with the llamas.

00:04:57.600 Online, the incident was going viral under the hashtag Llamadrama.

00:05:02.280 The entire internet, my office included, was just obsessed with these escaping llamas in Arizona.

00:05:11.020 Kate's Holderness and her colleagues at BuzzFeed were watching the llama drama from their office in New York.

00:05:17.220 And there was like helicopter footage and news coverage and it was just hours of everyone being like, oh, are they going to catch the llamas?

00:05:25.060 They do have a couple of guys with lassos around there, but they've tried to throw these things.

00:05:29.040 Oh, yeah, they got it with one.

00:05:31.880 The llamas finally caught and headed back to their trailers.

00:05:36.200 They finally did catch the llamas.

00:05:43.840 Believe it or not, watching llama videos was a big part of Holderness's job at BuzzFeed,

00:05:49.020 trying to predict what would go viral and how to capitalize on it.

00:05:53.000 At the time, BuzzFeed was the king of viral content, with 200 million visitors a month.

00:05:59.600 We had the attitude of, if a piece of content makes you feel something, you should post it.

00:06:06.080 And toward the end of that day, as the llama drama was dying down,

00:06:10.120 Holderness got a message on BuzzFeed's Tumblr account.

00:06:14.820 Hey BuzzFeed, can you look at this thing that I posted?

00:06:17.860 My friends and I are losing it. We're freaking out.

00:06:20.760 And I was just like, well, I don't see what the big deal is.

00:06:23.580 It's a blue and black dress.

00:06:25.020 I leaned over to two of my colleagues who were sitting beside me and I was just like, hey guys, what color is this?

00:06:32.340 And at the exact same time, one of them said white and gold and one of them said blue and black.

00:06:38.880 Her colleagues were looking at the same picture of a dress and seeing completely different colors.

00:06:45.160 They immediately started debating with each other.

00:06:48.820 Their argument drew people in from the rest of the office.

00:06:52.120 Within 10 minutes, there were 20 people standing behind my desk, just screaming at each other.

00:06:59.700 Just couldn't believe people were seeing it different colors.

00:07:03.540 I was like, if we're fighting about it, maybe the rest of the internet will fight about it.

00:07:08.220 So I threw it up into a BuzzFeed post, hit publish, and then left work.

00:07:14.140 Didn't really think much about it until I got off of the subway.

00:07:21.640 My phone kept crashing.

00:07:24.040 I couldn't load Twitter.

00:07:25.860 And I had dozens of text messages from friends and colleagues and family members saying,

00:07:32.340 you're ruining our lives.

00:07:33.380 Like, what did you do?

00:07:35.420 I looked on Twitter.

00:07:36.960 At that point, I had like several thousand notifications and everyone was freaking out.

00:07:42.340 It was just like the entire internet was freaking out.

00:07:45.760 It started making the rounds through New York media.

00:07:48.140 what's black and blue or gold and white

00:07:51.020 and has us debating all over.

00:07:53.300 It's gold and white.

00:07:54.320 Blue and black.

00:07:55.520 Yellow and white for sure.

00:07:57.160 Well, my wife says it's blue and black.

00:07:59.720 And then it just spiraled from there.

00:08:03.680 Taylor Swift is tweeting about it now.

00:08:06.000 Kim Kardashian's tweeting about it.

00:08:07.720 It was just, it was absolutely surreal.

00:08:12.220 Most of the people who voted in the poll

00:08:14.180 voted white and gold,

00:08:15.800 which just is bonkers to me because I've never been able to see it white and gold.

00:08:21.140 The dress would go on to become one of the most viral means to ever break the internet.

00:08:25.840 It drew everyone in from the sidelines in a mostly fun battle over the very nature of our shared reality.

00:08:32.700 I think it went viral because people just love fighting over low stakes things.

00:08:37.460 At the time, it wasn't clear why the dress became such a viral phenomenon.

00:08:47.040 We didn't know it, but the internet landscape was shifting beneath our feet.

00:08:51.340 It wasn't about keeping up with what your friends and family were doing anymore.

00:08:55.460 It was about feeding you content you would click on.

00:08:58.240 And social media companies knew that what people really engaged with was content that was controversial.

00:09:05.080 Content that was divisive.

00:09:07.460 Even things that were supposed to be fun, like the dress, were sparking heated arguments.

00:09:14.020 And as a result, the internet was getting angrier.

00:09:18.860 The number of posts that I saw of people using wildly aggressive language,

00:09:25.880 not only towards me, but towards other people,

00:09:29.000 calling people just the worst names and the worst slurs.

00:09:33.620 I should not have gotten death threats and rape threats.

00:09:37.460 for posting a picture of a dress.

00:09:40.200 It's like, really, guys?

00:09:42.120 It's a picture of a dress.

00:09:44.440 It's not that deep.

00:09:47.160 The dress was right there

00:09:48.980 on the crest of a powerful wave.

00:09:51.900 It was both a symbol of harmless internet fun

00:09:54.360 and also a sign of division to come.

00:09:58.780 It's a metaphor for the fact

00:10:02.100 that people can approach an objective fact

00:10:04.480 and be so far divided in how they view and interpret that fact.

00:10:11.760 It's been 10 years since The Dress,

00:10:14.180 and today the internet is in a state of turmoil.

00:10:17.240 The line between online and off is increasingly blurred.

00:10:21.400 Fights over the nature of our reality seem to rage every day.

00:10:25.300 But now, the stakes of those fights are higher than ever,

00:10:29.400 and we're left to wonder what went wrong.

00:10:32.020 I think a lot went wrong. I think a whole lot went wrong.

00:10:37.880 The internet we have in 2025 is fractured.

00:10:44.760 How did we get here? To the moment we're in right now, with the internet. A tool designed

00:10:50.860 to give everyone access to all the world's information has become a fire hose of lies,

00:10:56.320 hoaxes, and conspiracies. The anti-vaccination movement is growing

00:11:00.880 due to a new wave of conspiracy theories

00:11:03.580 shared through social media.

00:11:05.220 They're forced vaccinating our children.

00:11:07.880 Websites that brought friends together

00:11:09.460 have also become rallying points for hate groups

00:11:12.320 and hotbeds of extremism.

00:11:14.100 The incels are part of a larger online group

00:11:16.380 that's been called the Manosphere. 0.61

00:11:18.460 Their frustration festering online can turn violent.

00:11:22.580 But it wasn't always like this.

00:11:24.640 The internet also gave power to the people

00:11:26.760 and it helped to topple autocracies.

00:11:29.940 Opposition activists organized a march on Facebook.

00:11:33.280 That online energy could actually be converted into on-the-street action.

00:11:38.880 In this season of Long Shadow, we're going to chart the evolution of the Internet

00:11:43.020 from the optimistic days of the dot-com boom to our present moment,

00:11:47.520 a time when the Internet is at the heart of so many of our problems.

00:11:52.240 The story of the Internet is also a story of greed.

00:11:55.520 The world's richest companies used algorithms to monetize attention and maximize profit.

00:12:02.240 Algorithms that have changed the way that we interact with each other online and offline.

00:12:07.740 The short-term dopamine-driven feedback loops that we have created are destroying how society works.

00:12:15.920 Along the way, we became the product and the target, and we learned that the internet could be turned against us.

00:12:22.700 It's the protesters who've gone on trial.

00:12:25.520 People were being imprisoned and held indefinitely because of what they posted on social media.

00:12:30.300 And used by adversaries abroad to try to destroy America from within.

00:12:35.240 The Russian conspirators want to promote discord in the United States and undermine public confidence in democracy.

00:12:43.580 How did a tool offering so much knowledge drive us into an existential debate over our shared reality?

00:12:50.360 We're living in a post-fact world with fake news, echo chambers, and deep distrust of media.

00:12:57.600 How did a tool with the potential to lift all voices end up amplifying the very worst of them?

00:13:03.540 The result is a system that amplifies division, extremism, and polarization.

00:13:08.240 How did a tool with the ability to fuel democracy become a weapon aimed at the very heart of it?

00:13:14.400 There is an alignment of interests that runs through Silicon Valley to what is now a coming autocracy.

00:13:25.020 It's a coup.

00:13:27.580 This is the story of mankind's greatest invention.

00:13:31.240 It's also the story of the biggest crisis facing society today.

00:13:36.360 My name is Garrett Graff.

00:13:38.040 From Longlead and PRX, this is Long Shadow, breaking the internet.

00:13:44.400 Episode 1, The End of the World as We Know It.

00:13:52.780 Imagine a world where every word ever written,

00:13:55.960 every picture ever painted, and every film ever shot

00:13:58.880 could be viewed instantly in your home.

00:14:01.540 It sounds pretty grand,

00:14:03.520 but in fact, that's already happening on something called the internet.

00:14:08.320 The year is 1993.

00:14:11.240 Gas is just over a dollar a gallon.

00:14:13.860 Minimum wage is $4.25 an hour.

00:14:16.700 Mass media is hitting its apex.

00:14:18.820 And American culture is about as homogenous as it's ever been.

00:14:22.580 Everyone is listening to the new Whitney Houston song on their Walkman.

00:14:27.600 90 million people are tuning in to watch Oprah interview Michael Jackson.

00:14:31.600 Where did that he-he thing come from?

00:14:33.560 And there's one movie everyone has to see in theaters. 0.98

00:14:39.740 Jurassic Park. 0.97

00:14:41.540 Hold on to your butts. 0.63

00:14:46.460 But somewhere in the background of all that, 0.91

00:14:48.880 this new thing called the World Wide Web

00:14:50.780 just became available to the general public.

00:14:53.600 For decades up until now,

00:14:55.140 the internet has been a thing used by computer nerds,

00:14:58.380 scientists, and the military.

00:15:00.280 But the World Wide Web is meant to be used by anyone,

00:15:03.560 than everyone.

00:15:05.300 You can do more than just send messages on the Internet.

00:15:07.340 There's loads of useful information in here.

00:15:09.860 You can get news, recipes.

00:15:11.920 The World Wide Web is better looking.

00:15:14.280 It even has pictures on it.

00:15:16.160 And I found this satellite weather map in there.

00:15:19.340 The Web is still brand new,

00:15:21.160 and only a select few seem to understand

00:15:23.360 what it's good for.

00:15:24.460 What about this Internet thing?

00:15:25.680 Do you know anything about that?

00:15:27.020 Sure.

00:15:28.240 What the hell is that exactly?

00:15:30.300 What, do you write to it like mail?

00:15:31.780 Allison, can you explain what internet is?

00:15:34.780 It's wild what's going on.

00:15:36.220 You can send electronic mail to people.

00:15:38.620 It is the big new thing.

00:15:45.040 I mean, when I heard about it, I definitely wanted to try it out.

00:15:49.580 You know, I had this dial-up line and used it to download the World Wide Web.

00:15:56.380 This is Stephen Levy.

00:15:58.180 He's been writing about the internet for publications like Wired for four decades.

00:16:02.640 But his interest in the subject really took off when the World Wide Web came out in 1993.

00:16:08.380 It was pretty easy to use. It was incredibly slow.

00:16:11.860 And I would spend hours and hours sitting in my little office waiting for the pages to load.

00:16:17.940 There were so few websites that every day you would learn which websites came on.

00:16:24.500 There would only be a handful.

00:16:26.460 Here's a website about Elvis.

00:16:27.760 Here's a website about the Grateful Dead.

00:16:29.800 Here's a website about medicine or politics or whatever.

00:16:34.440 Even in its quirky infancy, the World Wide Web was tearing down the barriers of communication.

00:16:40.660 Suddenly, through email, instant message, and chat rooms,

00:16:44.520 people all over the world could communicate in one big open forum.

00:16:48.440 And the crazy part is that back then, online conversations were pretty civil.

00:16:53.220 There's an interesting kind of restraint you find.

00:16:57.180 I mean, there's not a lot of cursing or swearing.

00:17:00.120 One would think, if you're anonymous, you do anything you want.

00:17:03.040 But people have their own sense of community and what we can do.

00:17:06.860 And the content was pretty tame, too.

00:17:09.600 There was this one site in Cambridge, England.

00:17:13.700 The people in their computer department had a coffee room,

00:17:18.040 and they put a camera on the coffee pot,

00:17:21.060 and they put it on the web,

00:17:22.760 and people all over the world could check the status of the coffee pot.

00:17:25.920 And I would check it like three or four times a day.

00:17:29.200 It's hard to explain now how being able to connect to a live stream of a coffee pot

00:17:33.960 in another country felt revolutionary.

00:17:36.720 But people like Levy knew that if you could access that from the comfort of your own home,

00:17:41.360 one day you were going to be able to access everything.

00:17:44.140 A lot of the people who were the philosophers of the internet preached an idea that information

00:17:55.920 should flow as freely as possible. This is something that's going to democratize everything.

00:18:01.420 It's going to level the playing field and big institutions will have to face competition from

00:18:07.500 the little guy everywhere. Citizen journalists could spring up and come up with their own

00:18:13.260 publications. Governments would lose power as people could share information and spread it.

00:18:21.440 People thought it was going to topple autocracies. So it was an exuberant time where people

00:18:27.540 celebrated the potential of the internet. I definitely felt that it was going to be

00:18:32.740 a democratizing force. The internet was going to change the game, but in 1993,

00:18:40.700 it only had about 14 million users. By 1994, 25 million people had logged on, many of them

00:18:48.440 through services like CompuServe, Prodigy, and America Online. The web was still so small,

00:18:55.240 all of its sites could fit in a book called the Atlas to the World Wide Web. But it was starting

00:19:00.680 to become a household name. Internet is that massive computer network, the one that's becoming

00:19:07.880 really big now. The Internet's founders believed in its democratic power, but its real potential

00:19:14.460 was in commerce. In 1994, Pizza Hut became one of the first companies to sell something

00:19:20.380 online, a large pepperoni and mushroom with extra cheese. Anyone want some pizza?

00:19:28.840 It didn't take long for big companies to see the appeal. By 1996, there were 40 million

00:19:35.140 people surfing the internet, spending more than half a billion dollars a year on online shopping.

00:19:40.920 Who are you? I'm Jeff Bezos. What is your claim to fame? I'm the founder of Amazon.com.

00:19:46.860 When Amazon appeared, unbelievable. A bookstore with a catalog with everything.

00:19:53.480 As the revenues of companies like Amazon soared and people logged onto the internet by the millions,

00:19:58.960 it sparked a feeding frenzy of investors willing to buy into dot-com companies at any price.

00:20:04.500 They dumped obscene amounts of money into web startups you either don't remember or have never heard of.

00:20:10.120 We're coming to you for one crazy dog park!

00:20:13.440 Like Pets.com, a pet supply company with a dog sock puppet as a spokesman.

00:20:18.480 Squeaky toys, new collars, leashes.

00:20:22.060 Even that company was valued at almost $300 million.

00:20:25.500 The Wall Street trading floor was a mosh pit

00:20:30.360 as the stock market ballooned to record highs

00:20:32.720 on the back of all that dot-com speculation.

00:20:39.400 It was perfect.

00:20:41.020 The internet was a cash cow,

00:20:42.660 but it was also good for society.

00:20:45.240 It was going to change everything

00:20:46.700 about how we lived, communicated, shopped, and shared.

00:20:51.020 And in 1999, with 280 million users and growing,

00:20:55.380 There was nowhere to go but I.

00:20:58.080 I can't believe how easy it is to surf the net.

00:21:01.080 It's so easy to learn and so much fun to play on.

00:21:04.360 Surf's up. See you on the net.

00:21:10.360 From the beginning, the internet was just a tool.

00:21:13.860 It reflected the people who were using it.

00:21:16.160 In the early 90s, those people were mostly polite nerds.

00:21:20.760 But as more and more people piled in,

00:21:22.660 some of the problems we now recognize as part of a free and open internet started to emerge.

00:21:29.220 Two years ago, Elliot pulled the plug when she found her teenage sons downloading pornography.

00:21:35.240 We found sadomasochism on our computer available at the flick of a button.

00:21:40.700 Pornography was something that there was like a big panic about.

00:21:43.980 The idea is that an 11-year-old kid is going to see more pornography

00:21:47.000 than a person like me saw in his entire lifetime.

00:21:51.580 Children sometimes are exposed to images parents don't want them to see because they shouldn't.

00:21:57.900 In 1996, President Bill Clinton signed the Communications Decency Act into law.

00:22:03.260 The law makes it a crime to display indecent or patently offensive words or images on the Internet.

00:22:10.660 But opponents say the law is patently unconstitutional.

00:22:15.420 Parts of the law were struck down the following year for violating the First Amendment right to free speech.

00:22:20.980 But a debate started that still rages today.

00:22:25.060 How would we deliver on the democratic promise of the internet

00:22:28.420 that speech and information should be free while also keeping it safe?

00:22:34.100 The upside of the internet was that it allowed for unfettered access to information.

00:22:38.900 But people were starting to learn that that was also its downside.

00:22:43.300 This man asked to remain anonymous. His 14-year-old son paid $9 and got the recipe for this

00:22:49.860 pipe bomb from the internet on his home computer.

00:22:53.840 What would happen if volatile information got into the wrong hands?

00:22:58.260 By using those computerized directions, this is the result.

00:23:02.480 We have enough problems in America without our kids learning how to become junior terrorists.

00:23:07.640 But perhaps the internet's most obvious and glaring problem was just starting to dawn on people.

00:23:12.860 The internet, as wonderful as it is, has become the world's largest rumor mill,

00:23:17.860 chock full of hoaxes, scams, and conspiracy theories.

00:23:21.860 What if I just wanted to vent my rage at whatever?

00:23:25.860 Can I just get out there?

00:23:27.860 Piece of cake.

00:23:28.860 I can go out there and say anything I want.

00:23:30.860 Right.

00:23:31.860 Take me about 10 seconds to make this live on the internet.

00:23:33.860 You heard that right.

00:23:35.860 People on the internet could say anything,

00:23:37.860 whether it was truthful or not.

00:23:40.860 The good side of this is that everyone can become a source.

00:23:43.860 The bad side is that everyone can become a source.

00:23:46.860 The double-edged nature of a free internet was clear.

00:23:50.120 The world's information would be at everyone's fingertips.

00:23:54.040 That included its porn, its bomb instructions, and its outright lies.

00:23:59.500 But at the end of the day, what you consumed would still be up to you.

00:24:04.200 At least for now.

00:24:09.460 By the late 90s, it was obvious just how dependent we were going to be on the internet.

00:24:15.180 In a decade, it had infiltrated almost every aspect of American life.

00:24:20.200 Kids used it in classrooms, businesses used it for commerce, and governments used it to run their systems.

00:24:27.140 But as the 20th century drew to a close, and a new millennium was on the horizon,

00:24:32.380 the world was going to learn just how quickly technology could turn against us.

00:24:36.780 If you want to, there are plenty of things to worry about as we approach the end of the 20th century.

00:24:42.040 Global warming, biological warfare, meteors from outer space, and now Y2K.

00:24:48.620 Y2K is the year 2000 computer glitch that threatens to crash the world's computer networks.

00:25:00.340 Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Crave, Netflix, and Disney Plus from $94 a month.

00:25:05.460 Price guaranteed for two years on Internet with a two-year term and auto-pay credit.

00:25:09.380 Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability.

00:25:12.520 Bell. Connection is everything.

00:25:14.880 Run a business and not thinking about podcasting?

00:25:17.700 Think again.

00:25:18.700 More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora.

00:25:23.400 And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined.

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00:25:44.880 when i was 14 years old i was kidnapped and held captive for nine months i survived and i've spent

00:25:52.700 my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them i'm elizabeth smart

00:25:58.720 and these are the survivor files i just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying

00:26:06.380 shut up don't say anything every week i'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable

00:26:13.020 i knew if he woke up without a doubt he was going to hurt me i started feeling that there was 0.90

00:26:20.880 someone at the end of my bed and i just started screaming they are abducted stalked controlled

00:26:28.340 and nearly silenced but these aren't stories about what's taken from them they're stories

00:26:33.960 about what it takes to make it out alive listen to the survivor files with elizabeth smart

00:26:39.700 on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts if your bookshelf and your

00:26:46.700 for you page are equally important to your personality welcome home this is prose society

00:26:53.120 the weekly podcast that's part book club part group chat for thought daughters pop culture

00:26:58.220 obsessives and anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same

00:27:02.260 level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books,

00:27:07.480 the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm gonna have to look up

00:27:11.760 this story. I'm obsessed, so obsessed. From best-selling authors and your favorite book

00:27:16.500 talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can

00:27:21.640 hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse.

00:27:27.900 Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place.

00:27:37.500 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:27:43.540 See you between the pages.

00:27:50.360 One night, I was in my kitchen, I don't know, straightening something up.

00:27:55.480 I get a phone call.

00:27:58.620 Some random guy, kind of high-pitched, hysterical.

00:28:03.420 And the first thing this guy said, stop being listed.

00:28:07.060 People should not know your name.

00:28:08.900 You're going to be in danger. 0.99

00:28:11.520 You know, I was thinking, this guy's a nutcase. 0.55

00:28:15.140 This was the first call that I got, warning me about the end of the world.

00:28:19.980 In 1999, Ellen Ullman was a computer programmer

00:28:25.940 who had published a book about the tech revolution. 0.52

00:28:29.080 She says she was used to getting cold calls from random men trying to date her.

00:28:34.020 But one night, she got a call from a man who was trying to warn her

00:28:37.840 about a computer glitch that had become known as the Y2K bug.

00:28:43.280 They said, society's going to crack up.

00:28:45.760 It's going to be wild out there.

00:28:48.500 Everyone's going to be roaming around, you know, trying to steal other people's stuff.

00:28:53.960 Nothing will work, no electricity, and water won't run.

00:28:57.700 Water.

00:28:59.460 Okay, okay, all right.

00:29:03.360 He was in terror.

00:29:06.660 He said, you have to fix it.

00:29:08.400 You have to tell everyone to fix this.

00:29:10.180 The world's going to come to an end.

00:29:11.460 I went on to tell people, but a different story from the one he wanted me to tell.

00:29:20.940 By the time Ullman received that call in 1999, the Internet age was facing its biggest crisis yet.

00:29:27.620 A Senate panel describes Y2K, the year 2000 computer bug, as a worldwide crisis and one of the most serious and potentially devastating events this nation has ever encountered.

00:29:40.380 The Y2K, or year 2000 bug, had been in the offing for years.

00:29:45.920 Back in the 1960s, computer memory was really limited, precious, and expensive.

00:29:52.040 To save room, programmers decided that years in computer code would be represented with only two numbers instead of four.

00:29:59.820 1965 would just be 65.

00:30:02.940 The choice saved millions in memory costs.

00:30:05.920 But as the millennium approached, it presented a massive crisis.

00:30:11.680 By 1999, there were hundreds of millions of computers, but many of them were not able to recognize the year 2000.

00:30:20.160 It was thought that as the world rolled over into the new millennium, critical systems would malfunction disastrously.

00:30:26.660 Shutdowns of telephone systems, the food industry, power and water, banking,

00:30:33.840 even nuclear bombs going off on their own could all plague the world on January 1st.

00:30:39.800 Power grids might be completely knocked out.

00:30:42.720 Planes could fall out of the sky.

00:30:44.460 I don't want to be anywhere remotely close to an airport midnight on December 31st.

00:30:50.380 But the biggest concern was that a nuclear weapon might launch accidentally

00:30:54.260 or that a radar system might think one had been launched.

00:30:58.840 Russia, like the United States, still keeps thousands of strategic weapons on air trigger alert.

00:31:05.680 That's the equivalent of about 100,000 Hiroshima bombs

00:31:10.040 that could be lobbed around the planet in under an hour.

00:31:14.440 The fix for the Y2K bug seemed impossible.

00:31:18.180 Programmers would have to work around the clock on every system in the world,

00:31:21.960 scanning billions of lines of code and updating year dates manually.

00:31:26.580 It's an enormous task.

00:31:28.620 The more I thought about it, the more I thought,

00:31:30.720 God, how is this going to work?

00:31:33.340 How in the world are you going to do this?

00:31:35.480 If we act properly, we won't look back on this as a headache,

00:31:39.820 sort of the last-failed challenge of the 20th century.

00:31:43.020 It will be the first challenge of the 21st century successfully met,

00:31:48.340 and together we can do it.

00:31:51.960 I think a lot of people thought it was a hoax and nothing would happen.

00:32:01.780 They were just scaring us.

00:32:04.180 I got scared for a minute.

00:32:05.760 There was one night I'm sitting alone and I just felt, uh-oh, what's over my shoulder?

00:32:11.560 Something dark is over my shoulder.

00:32:14.020 Ullman decided to do what the crazy man on the phone had told her to do. 0.72

00:32:18.140 Find out how people were tackling the Y2K problem and write about it.

00:32:22.840 Companies were desperate to find people who knew what this code was about.

00:32:27.200 And they were calling back all these old veterans to come in and help them.

00:32:31.020 I talked to a few programmers.

00:32:32.740 They said, I'm fixing code I wrote 30 years ago.

00:32:35.560 I didn't think I'd ever see this code again.

00:32:37.660 They just got to work. 0.93

00:32:40.680 Fixing the Y2K problem would take a massive effort of coordination and cooperation.

00:32:45.260 an effort that was now possible because of the web.

00:32:49.260 Programmers around the world connected online,

00:32:52.260 sharing software updates and patches.

00:32:55.260 The rapid sharing of information allowed companies big and small

00:32:58.260 to prepare their systems for the new year.

00:33:01.260 The process of fixing a single computer program

00:33:04.260 is tedious and time-consuming,

00:33:07.260 and you have to go through them line by line.

00:33:10.260 The year 2000 is approaching at the rate of 3,600 seconds per hour.

00:33:14.260 We're running out of time.

00:33:15.740 With the clock ticking, the Internet was bringing nations together around the world to collaborate on the problem.

00:33:21.960 Even the American and Russian governments were working side by side. 0.92

00:33:25.720 The Pentagon has spent three and a half billion dollars fighting the battle of Y2K,

00:33:31.020 including setting up a joint missile warning center with the Russians to make sure a computer glitch doesn't set off false alarms of an attack.

00:33:39.260 But as organizations tested their systems, there were signs that catastrophe might strike anyway.

00:33:46.300 The Peach Bottom nuclear facility experienced a serious glitch when operators tried to fix a Y2K problem.

00:33:54.480 Doomsday sayers are predicting massive blackouts come January 1, 2000.

00:34:00.100 I spoke with a programmer at the Federal Reserve.

00:34:03.500 I asked him, how's it going?

00:34:05.600 Oh, it's fine. We have these techniques.

00:34:08.040 And I go, oh, that's good.

00:34:09.260 And then he went on to say, well, almost everyone I know is getting off the grid.

00:34:14.620 They're buying guns.

00:34:16.640 They're buying camping equipment because it's all going to be dangerous, collapse out there.

00:34:23.120 I said, how did you get from everything's great to everything's terrible?

00:34:28.520 He said, well, I think we have everything well in hand, but I don't know if other people are in hand.

00:34:37.340 That was the fear, that there in the darkness,

00:34:40.620 the darkness of the internet,

00:34:43.440 someone else would bring it down.

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00:35:04.240 Run a business and not thinking about podcasting?

00:35:06.600 Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify

00:35:11.560 and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined.

00:35:16.720 So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only iHeart can extend

00:35:21.160 your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business?

00:35:25.800 Think iHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Call 844-844-iHeart to get started. That's 844-844-iHeart.

00:35:34.280 When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.

00:35:40.460 I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

00:35:46.820 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.

00:35:50.520 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, 0.99

00:35:55.940 Shut up. Don't say anything. 0.99

00:35:58.600 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable.

00:36:03.140 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.

00:36:07.700 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed,

00:36:12.340 and I just started screaming.

00:36:15.140 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:36:18.960 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

00:36:22.620 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:36:26.200 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart

00:36:28.960 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:36:34.660 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality,

00:36:39.080 welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club,

00:36:45.240 part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks

00:36:49.180 Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo,

00:36:53.980 and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations

00:36:58.180 everyone can't stop having.

00:37:00.160 I'm going to have to look up this story.

00:37:02.060 I'm obsessed, I'm obsessed.

00:37:03.740 From best-selling authors

00:37:04.800 and your favorite book talk creators

00:37:06.360 to the latest pop culture moments,

00:37:08.620 nothing is off the table.

00:37:10.080 It's like if you can hide some real messages

00:37:12.980 inside compelling characters,

00:37:15.680 then that is a Trojan horse.

00:37:17.520 Whether you're looking for literary deep dives,

00:37:19.720 smart pop culture conversations,

00:37:21.200 or a community of readers

00:37:22.880 who love to think a little too much,

00:37:25.120 you're in the right place.

00:37:26.780 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app,

00:37:29.720 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:37:32.840 See you between the pages.

00:37:34.700 While the internet sped up the Y2K overhaul,

00:37:38.020 it was also spreading rumors, fear, and misinformation about the crisis.

00:37:43.280 There were fear mongers out there, scaring everybody.

00:37:46.960 You're going to have water problems.

00:37:48.680 I'm seeing a rather dark forecast.

00:37:51.420 You're going to lose half the population of the planet.

00:37:54.000 We're going to be in a world of hurt come January the 1st, 2000.

00:37:56.920 Order Millennium Fears Fact or Fiction video for only $19.95.

00:38:02.520 In the last days of 1999, people all over the world were preparing to varying degrees.

00:38:10.960 Some were hoarding food.

00:38:13.060 Chicken noodle.

00:38:13.980 They've stocked their shelves with soups.

00:38:16.160 Chicken noodle.

00:38:17.080 More than you'd find in some convenience stores.

00:38:19.720 Somebody really likes chicken noodle.

00:38:21.940 Some people were preparing for a full societal collapse.

00:38:25.980 The biggest sellers are ammunition, gun safes, kerosene lamps, and water jugs.

00:38:31.300 I think there are real risks of, you know, panic behavior which could have a profound impact on our society.

00:38:37.120 There's people out there that I've talked to that said, there's nothing going to happen.

00:38:41.100 What are you basing that on? Nobody knows. No.

00:38:43.700 For others, all this Y2K stuff was a warning. 1.00

00:38:48.060 The technology was leading society astray.

00:38:51.220 It's almost become an idol, like the 10 hours that my son stays in front of the computer.

00:38:57.540 So it's maybe only just that this idol comes crashing down.

00:39:04.200 Toward the end of 1999, the U.S. government reported that it had made tremendous progress in fixing the Y2K bug.

00:39:11.720 We do not at the moment expect that this will be, as the websites are calling it, Tia Tawaki.

00:39:19.080 That's the acronym for the end of the world as we know it.

00:39:28.340 I am standing at ground zero in case of any accidental nuclear missile launch.

00:39:33.080 Behind me, you can see the tunnel entrance to the command center for NORAD.

00:39:37.180 It's December 31st, 1999, outside the North American Aerospace Defense Command in Colorado Springs.

00:39:45.340 At nearby Peterson Air Force Base, Russian and American officers are working together around the clock.

00:39:51.240 You may think you're in Moscow.

00:39:55.460 Our crews are getting along as a piece in a pod.

00:40:00.140 Are you confident that there will not be a launch?

00:40:02.780 We are very confident in the U.S. forces there will not be an accidental launch of a nuclear weapon.

00:40:07.700 And how confident are you of the Russian forces?

00:40:09.600 i'm i'm very confident that the russians will not have a problem either

00:40:16.320 new year's eve y2k i gave a party i lived in a loft at the time and 100 people showed up

00:40:27.200 we got dressed up like it was 1933 we put on evening gowns it was so much fun

00:40:34.840 At this party, I kept the TV on.

00:40:41.120 I was watching it.

00:40:43.200 One place after another entered the year 2000.

00:40:49.020 The world's eyes turned to New Zealand,

00:40:51.920 the first major country to reign the new millennium.

00:40:59.800 The orchestra blared and the lights stayed on.

00:41:03.000 Here in New Zealand, not one single major, or for that matter, that we know of, minor

00:41:10.120 Y2K problem.

00:41:14.560 Back at NORAD in Colorado, military officials watched closely as Moscow prepared to enter 0.65

00:41:20.000 the 21st century.

00:41:21.240 It is a dramatic time in Moscow.

00:41:23.800 You see Red Square celebrating this moment in the less than 20 seconds now to midnight.

00:41:29.120 Earlier that day, Russian President Boris Yeltsin

00:41:31.880 stepped down, appointing an acting president.

00:41:34.960 Vladimir Putin, Mr. Yeltsin's hand-selected prime minister

00:41:38.500 and now successor, there has been...

00:41:40.900 As the clock struck midnight in Moscow,

00:41:43.460 an intense relief spread across the room at NORAD.

00:41:47.200 But that relief was short-lived.

00:41:50.400 Take a look!

00:41:51.880 Take a look from Russia.

00:41:52.780 Looks like the city of Placets.

00:41:54.640 Radar showed three Scud missiles

00:41:56.440 had been launched in southern Russia.

00:41:58.780 The officers rushed to figure out what had happened and learned that the Russian military was firing at extremists in Chechnya.

00:42:06.380 An American general reportedly called Russia and said this is not a good time to be launching missiles.

00:42:14.900 People around the world were reporting in on the Internet.

00:42:18.780 There were no major Y2K issues. 0.94

00:42:21.060 Four, three, two, one, happy 2000! 0.97

00:42:26.520 every city they go to all around the globe nothing happens as one time zone after another

00:42:35.520 was still operating i got relieved but i wondered what's the next one is that going to go down

00:42:42.260 and eventually it rolled around to us in san francisco

00:42:45.160 and it was over and nothing happened we all yelled yay and happy new year and lifted our

00:42:55.060 glasses of champagne. And there was a sense of relief. It was just like a sense, I think,

00:43:02.520 of disappointment somehow. No one really wanted to go home yet. So we went and watched the

00:43:14.960 fireworks on the roof. A lot of people were crowded up there and drinking heavily.

00:43:25.060 If it's the end of the world, I'm going to go down drunk.

00:43:28.100 I saw all those people celebrating, and I got really happy.

00:43:31.700 There was a sense that we were all in this.

00:43:34.180 The whole world was involved in this.

00:43:37.160 I thought, good, thank you, programmers.

00:43:39.520 Thank you, thank you.

00:43:40.780 Now everyone's happy.

00:43:45.220 At the end of the party, I was putting away some things,

00:43:48.700 and that call from that strange guy came to me out of the blue.

00:43:53.140 He said that everything's going to collapse and water won't run. Water.

00:44:00.200 Turned down the faucet, washed my hands, and there it was, all the water.

00:44:05.820 Like all the code, it runs.

00:44:16.560 Disaster had been averted.

00:44:18.920 The billions of dollars and millions of man-hours spent on addressing the crisis had paid off.

00:44:24.860 But of course, there were those who thought the whole thing had been a big hoax.

00:44:30.060 Some people are questioning now whether all of this was overkill,

00:44:33.520 whether the problems were that large to begin with.

00:44:35.960 I just would like to know when you're going to come by to pick up all that bottled water and beef jerky that you made me buy.

00:44:41.320 I just want to say flatly that it wasn't a hoax.

00:44:45.500 We didn't have a collapse because there were armies of dedicated programmers.

00:44:52.060 The job they did was astounding to me.

00:44:55.200 Y2K is remembered today as a joke, a punchline for government fear-mongering.

00:45:00.580 An overreaction rather than a rare moment when people came together to solve a problem. 0.99

00:45:06.520 It's worth imagining if the same thing would even be possible today.

00:45:10.340 That we could agree on anything, much less unite in a common cause.

00:45:15.500 But this was a time before the Internet went sour.

00:45:19.420 And as the sun rose on a new millennium, the world felt more connected than ever before.

00:45:26.620 Good morning and Happy New Year.

00:45:29.400 Or we should say, Happy New Millennium.

00:45:31.660 President Bill Clinton gave a New Year's Day address.

00:45:34.880 What is perhaps most remarkable about last night's celebration

00:45:38.080 is the way it was shared all around the world.

00:45:40.660 That people all over the planet could experience the same events at the same time would have

00:45:46.740 been impossible for anyone to imagine a thousand years ago, even a hundred.

00:45:52.220 Yet the growing interconnectedness of the world today, thanks to technologies like the

00:45:56.460 Internet, is more than just a mark of how far we've come.

00:46:00.520 It's the key to understanding where we're going.

00:46:04.780 In this new interconnected world, America clearly must remain engaged.

00:46:10.200 We must help to shape events and not be shaped by them.

00:46:14.340 We can make this new century a time of unprecedented peace, freedom, and prosperity for our people

00:46:21.320 and for all the citizens of the world.

00:46:24.000 Thank you, Happy New Year, and God bless America.

00:46:32.600 At that moment in time, the internet was a blank canvas.

00:46:36.080 would take the shape of us, the people who used it, for better and for worse. It's supposed to be a

00:46:43.120 very transparent medium between the author and the reader. So if you find that life is complex on the

00:46:49.940 web, you are reading a complicated part of it. This is Tim Berners-Lee, the man who invented the

00:46:54.960 World Wide Web, speaking in an interview in 1997. The analogy was with paper. Can you imagine trying

00:47:01.720 to invent a sort of paper which can't be used for writing untruths or can't be used for immoral

00:47:06.960 purposes, actually. It's only as good as the world it serves. Yes, in many parts, that's not very good,

00:47:11.680 is it? In this interview, it's like Berners-Lee is staring through a monitor at the future,

00:47:19.400 at our present-day world, where the web has the power to push us into echo chambers

00:47:23.840 and disrupt our shared sense of reality. With the web, you can find a myriad of

00:47:31.540 different websites, something really matches your particular weird view of a point in life.

00:47:35.800 World government, implantable microchips, Satanism, it's out of the open.

00:47:42.640 And then you can filter your emails so that you only communicate with people who also

00:47:45.840 share that weird view.

00:47:47.860 You can get into a sort of cult.

00:47:49.700 These are the same people that are trafficking children.

00:47:52.640 I did my own research and I found out what this truly was. 0.89

00:47:56.300 You can get into a sort of cultural pothole with a few crazy fanatics.

00:48:01.540 They can't climb out of it, they can't understand anybody who's not in it,

00:48:04.660 and they bump into somebody else on the street. 0.99

00:48:07.380 The only form of communication that is left is shooting them.

00:48:10.300 Welch fired at least one round into the restaurant floor with an AR-15 rifle. 0.99

00:48:15.320 Welch read online that the Comet restaurant was harboring child sex slaves.

00:48:22.040 Do you think in some ways that it's the creation of a monster?

00:48:26.460 It's a profound revolution, isn't it, in terms of technology around the world,

00:48:30.380 revolutions are sometimes painful, aren't they? Yes, I suppose that there will be aspects of

00:48:37.520 any change which are painful. Hope in the face of difficulty, the audacity of hope.

00:48:47.000 In Egypt, Facebook, Twitter and Google mobilized crowds and sparked a revolution.

00:48:52.620 I believe Facebook's products stoke division and weaken our democracy.

00:49:02.240 Trump supporters help the Russian internet trolls spreading Russian-made messages.

00:49:09.340 Misinformation and conspiracy theories are rapidly spreading online.

00:49:18.660 QAnon's presence in the mob was unmistakable.

00:49:21.560 It all started as an online conspiracy more than four years ago.

00:49:26.620 Google and Twitter and Facebook, they're really treading on very, very troubled territory.

00:49:32.440 They better be careful.

00:49:33.840 This is something that we've never seen before.

00:49:35.520 The CEOs of some of the most powerful and wealthy technology and media companies in the world

00:49:40.100 seated on the platform for the inauguration of an American president.

00:49:43.720 It's a type of power that the world has never seen before.

00:49:48.760 You're watching the unraveling of our democracy.

00:49:51.240 It's not about to happen. It is happening right now.

00:49:59.440 That's all coming up on this season of Long Shadow, breaking the internet.

00:50:07.940 Long Shadow is a production of Long Lead, distributed by PRX.

00:50:12.500 The show is produced and co-written by Ryan Swiker.

00:50:16.000 John Patrick Pullen is our story editor and executive producer.

00:50:19.840 Emily Barone is Longlead's managing editor.

00:50:22.980 Kevin Shepard and Ula Culpa served as associate producers.

00:50:27.240 Additional editorial support by Ula Culpa.

00:50:30.520 Audience development by Jensen Rubenstein.

00:50:33.560 Fact-checking by Will DeGravio.

00:50:35.740 Claire Mullen did the mix.

00:50:37.540 Sound design by Claire Mullen and Ryan Sweikert.

00:50:40.660 John Singh handles publicity for Longlead.

00:50:43.680 The Podglomerate provides publicity, marketing, and promotional support for the show.

00:50:48.580 Music by Epidemic Sound and Marmoset.

00:50:51.760 Cover art by Longlead's creative director, Sarah Rogers.

00:50:55.780 Learn more about Longlead and subscribe to our newsletter at longlead.com.

00:51:00.980 Episode transcripts and more are available at longshadowpodcast.com.

00:51:05.920 If you're enjoying the show, spread the word and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts.

00:51:11.260 It helps others find the show.

00:51:14.220 I'm Garrett Graff, and thanks for listening.

00:51:17.900 If you enjoyed this episode, I'm happy to report there is plenty more where that came from,

00:51:26.460 including their recent episode, Enragement Equals Engagement. I really liked that one.

00:51:31.800 They talked to a new mom about her experiences confronting vaccine misinformation and connected

00:51:36.620 with Facebook's relentless pursuit of engagement and profit. Be sure to follow Long Shadow on

00:51:41.900 Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening now.

00:51:47.900 Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi?

00:51:52.480 You can reach us at hello at tangody.com.

00:51:54.740 You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangody.com.

00:51:58.140 There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by me, Bridget Todd.

00:52:00.900 It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.

00:52:03.600 Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer.

00:52:05.680 Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer.

00:52:08.300 Michael Amato is our contributing producer.

00:52:10.280 I'm your host, Bridget Todd.

00:52:12.100 If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts.

00:52:15.180 For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:52:45.180 Files. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked,

00:52:51.460 controlled, and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:52:57.580 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

00:53:03.340 or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally

00:53:07.940 important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club,

00:53:14.200 part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island

00:53:17.440 deserve the same level of discourse.

00:53:19.560 Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture

00:53:23.040 with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions.

00:53:27.820 Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.

00:53:29.580 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

00:53:33.300 or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:53:37.400 Hey, this is Hayes Davenport.

00:53:39.260 And Sean Clements.

00:53:40.480 We host the podcast Hollywood Handbook.

00:53:42.680 Every episode, we're trying to help our guests improve their careers

00:53:45.040 by mainly focusing on how they can help us improve our careers.

00:53:48.580 The show's famously super accessible,

00:53:50.260 so you can easily jump into any of our 650 episodes

00:53:53.140 and understand what's going on.

00:53:54.700 We recommend some of our recent episodes with Ben Stiller,

00:53:57.140 Danny McBride, Riz Ahmed, and Mary Steenburgen.

00:53:59.640 Listen to Hollywood Handbook on the iHeartRadio app,

00:54:02.440 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:54:05.720 I'm Nick Turturro.

00:54:06.740 You probably know me from NYPD Blue, The Longest Yard,

00:54:09.980 or Spike Lee's Black Klansman.

00:54:11.520 And on my new podcast, Delivering Happiness with Nick Turturro, I deliver pizza to a new guest.

00:54:16.780 I've shared a slice with everyone from Seth Rollins.

00:54:19.560 What are you doing with my belt?

00:54:20.680 To Bill Burr.

00:54:21.580 I don't think I've ever met somebody so exactly out of their mind as I am.

00:54:26.660 And now we even have more great guests coming up, including the great John Turturro.

00:54:31.340 It's called happiness.

00:54:32.400 Delivering happiness.

00:54:33.480 And many, many more.

00:54:34.960 Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Delivering Happiness with Nick Turturro, and listen now.

00:54:40.220 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:54:42.740 Guaranteed human.

There Are No Girls on the Internet - August 17, 2025

Introducing podcast “Long Shadow： Breaking the Internet” - EPISODE DROP

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