There Are No Girls on the Internet - Mark Zuckerberg's AI Era Has a Woman Problem. It Always Did.

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00:00:49.960 I survived nine months in captivity,

00:00:52.860 And I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

00:00:58.680 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.

00:01:02.260 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:01:09.820 These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

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00:01:21.260 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

00:01:27.400 Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

00:01:35.640 Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions.

00:01:43.900 Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.

00:01:45.360 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:01:51.260 There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.

00:02:03.420 I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.

00:02:08.960 It's 2026, and Facebook is back in the discourse.

00:02:13.080 This time because Meta is throwing everything it's got into AI.

00:02:17.540 New products, new models.

00:02:19.720 Full speed ahead, no brakes.

00:02:21.820 And if this sounds a little bit familiar, it should.

00:02:25.160 Because the story of how Mark Zuckerberg got here

00:02:27.660 and who got left behind, erased, or just plain lied about along the way,

00:02:32.980 well, that's a story that hasn't really changed much.

00:02:35.900 I sat down with my friends, Samantha and Annie,

00:02:38.980 on the podcast Stuff Mom Never Told You,

00:02:41.440 to revisit a movie that we like talking about a lot,

00:02:44.560 The Social Network.

00:02:46.160 A film that somehow just keeps getting more relevant.

00:02:49.520 We're digging into what that movie has to say about the misogyny

00:02:52.800 baked into the founding myth of one of the Internet's most powerful companies.

00:02:57.480 And also, looking ahead to the sequel,

00:03:00.400 centered on whistleblower Frances Haugen's findings

00:03:03.380 about how Facebook knowingly harmed women and girls.

00:03:06.800 So on the one hand, it's a conversation about a film that came out over 15 years ago.

00:03:11.200 But on the other, it's also kind of a movie about everything happening right now.

00:03:22.720 We didn't anticipate when this episode was going to come out.

00:03:26.980 You know, we've been hinting at it for a long time.

00:03:31.500 But it is coming out at a time where I think we need to take a fun break.

00:03:36.040 I think a lot of people need that kind of fun break right now.

00:03:39.560 I would say it is a fun break, but at the same time, like we're still going to talk about issues that are way too.

00:03:45.300 I'm like, yeah, yes, things.

00:03:47.520 Yes, we are. Absolutely.

00:03:50.240 It's a fun break, I guess, for us.

00:03:52.000 Maybe listeners will be like, oh, no.

00:03:55.240 Well, I feel like the lens through using movies as the entry point to talk about things that are real or rough,

00:04:02.720 I think is great because your brain is like, this is all fictional,

00:04:06.760 even though another part of your brain is like, no, this is real.

00:04:09.560 You get you. I don't know. I don't know if other people feel this way. It kind of lulls me into feeling like, oh, this is not scary or upsetting, even though it is real, because you've got that thin veneer of, oh, this is a fictionalized account.

00:04:24.360 yes and as listeners know if you looked at the title we are talking about the social network

00:04:31.340 today and i have to say to your point bridget i kept when i was like just writing my random

00:04:36.560 thoughts and notes i kept referring to the like the like they were characters i was like oh then

00:04:42.840 mark did this or whatever and it was so bizarre because i i i know that's a real person mark

00:04:49.700 zuckerberg out there but i was referring to him as if he was like a character which i do know there

00:04:56.480 is some debate about you know how dramatized this is you know how accurate it is but i did catch

00:05:05.480 myself doing that several times to me jesse eisenberg is more mark zuckerberg than mark

00:05:12.780 zuckerberg at this point when i imagine mark zuckerberg in my mind i'm actually picture

00:05:17.680 picturing jesse eisenberg that's how much he became mark zuckerberg or maybe is a zuckerberg

00:05:24.480 type i don't know but yeah they're they're one and the same in my mind i wonder how he would

00:05:30.820 feel about that honestly like when for the real mark zuckerberg that when i picture him i don't

00:05:37.480 picture the actual dweeb that is mark zuckerberg i picture jesse eisenberg somebody who i actually

00:05:43.240 like have a fondness for right and think has a little bit it has like charm yes i think this

00:05:49.700 movie was very kind to all of the individual people with the character with the people that

00:05:53.880 represented them i was like how is justin timberlake sean totally agree totally agree no

00:05:58.800 nope i had a lot of questions and yes like jesse eisenberg is definitely like endearing

00:06:07.200 seemingly. Like he has this persona of being endearing. So having an endearing person portray

00:06:12.960 you did him favors, even though from my observation of this movie, I was like, okay, so what I'm 0.67

00:06:19.580 understanding is Zuckerberg is an autistic, could have been incel had he not had this route. Like 0.81

00:06:25.740 that's what I found out. The way that misogyny, and I know we're going to talk about it, but the

00:06:31.120 way that misogyny bookends the film and then is this thread throughout even you know obviously

00:06:38.500 with how zuckerberg starts getting these ideas for facebook but even in ways that are not connected

00:06:44.320 to the digital world the way that these college campuses are sort of portrayed as like misogynistic

00:06:48.900 meat markets where women are just commodities i think the movie is trying to illustrate how like

00:06:54.180 zuckerberg didn't invent that he just put it online and and made it scalable oh yes we have

00:07:00.660 so much to talk about so i hope this is the first of a series where we do tech movies and we have

00:07:06.400 these conversations i know that you have some you've mentioned before you want to talk about

00:07:12.120 bridget but yes we i think this is a good one to kick it off with social network um so i'm going

00:07:19.320 to give a brief um rundown of it and then i'll ask you if you can give a brief plot description

00:07:25.840 of it i sure can i sure can excellent so the social network was a 2010 film based on the book

00:07:32.260 the accidental billionaires which was written by ben mesrick it was directed by david fincher and

00:07:38.820 written by aaron sorkin and it depicted the origins of facebook how facebook came to be

00:07:44.440 so yes we got jesse eisenberg playing facebook founder mark zuckerberg andrew garfield playing

00:07:50.880 his friend and business partner until they weren't um eduardo saverin justin timberlake

00:07:57.500 as sean parker the founder of napster and a mentor to zuckerberg and army hammer as the

00:08:03.060 vinkelvoss twins which i remember when this came out i watched like a special on how they

00:08:07.220 did his how they did the twins and if you noticed one of them is usually wearing like a bandana or

00:08:13.040 something and that's for the face scanning oh that makes a lot of sense yes yes uh this this film was

00:08:24.320 a critical and financial success in 2024 the library of congress named the social network as

00:08:30.900 quote culturally historically or aesthetically significant and inducted it into their national

00:08:37.100 film registry of note a lot of people depicted in the film were very adamant that this was not

00:08:43.640 an accurate portrayal of events and i also just have to say uh the kid from jurassic park who i

00:08:50.180 had a crush on when i was a kid was in this movie who is he dustin moskovitz uh he's the roommate

00:08:57.820 coder yes wow i would have been from jurassic park i would have never picked that up and also

00:09:03.520 Oh, side note, of course, you had a crush on that kid.

00:09:05.540 I know.

00:09:07.140 So me.

00:09:08.320 Oh, my gosh.

00:09:09.840 All right.

00:09:10.260 So, Bridget, can you run down the plot for us?

00:09:13.520 I can.

00:09:14.520 So the movie opens up in 2003 with Mark Zuckerberg.

00:09:18.140 He's a sophomore at Harvard.

00:09:19.620 He has just gotten dumped by his girlfriend, Erica, who is fictional.

00:09:23.840 Like the Erica character that we see that bookends the film is not based on a real person.

00:09:29.680 He is at a bar with her.

00:09:31.340 he's being very dismissive and condescending to her.

00:09:34.540 She breaks up with him.

00:09:35.660 He goes home, he gets drunk,

00:09:37.240 and he writes a nasty blog post about her

00:09:40.080 and in a fit of bitter energy,

00:09:44.200 hacks into the Harvard student directories

00:09:46.340 to build a site called FaceMash

00:09:48.300 to let people rate the female students 1.00

00:09:51.020 in all the dorms against each other.

00:09:53.320 He said that he was initially thinking about

00:09:56.240 having the girls' pictures next to farm animals,

00:09:59.580 but then he decided not to do that

00:10:01.200 That is not fictional. That is a real quote from what a then-college sophomore, Mark Zuckerberg, wrote.

00:10:09.120 So he ends up making this site facemash.

00:10:11.840 It's so popular that it crashes the university servers overnight, becomes a complete sensation, and it lands Zuckerberg in some campus disciplinary trouble.

00:10:20.700 All of this hubbub catches the attention of the twins that you just mentioned before, Cameron and Tyler Winklevoss, and their business partner who recruit Zuckerberg to help build out a plan that they had for a Harvard-only social network that they were calling Harvard Connection.

00:10:38.400 zuckerberg agrees there's definitely a dynamic where they are these tall guys on the rowing team

00:10:46.940 and zuckerberg's this big nerd and you've got these big these these big strong like men about

00:10:52.260 town like men on campus recruiting who are meant to understand as like this like kind of like

00:10:57.520 mousy neurotic you know beta to to use language that i'm that i'm sure that they have used

00:11:04.960 amongst each other so zuckerberg ends up kind of besting these two he just sort of he agrees he 0.58

00:11:12.320 takes their money to build the site strings them along for months doesn't do any real work and then

00:11:18.000 launches his own site that kind of is a very similar idea the facebook.com the site explodes

00:11:25.460 zuckerberg's best friend eduardo becomes his co-founder and puts up the initial money

00:11:31.080 Then Napster co-founder Sean Parker, who is played by Justin Timberlake,

00:11:37.120 breezes into their lives, instantly charms Mark Zuckerberg,

00:11:41.280 and gradually pushes Eduardo, who up until this point had been this loyal friend to Zuckerberg,

00:11:48.480 although they did have some tension, ends up pushing Eduardo out of the company

00:11:52.980 while pulling Facebook toward Silicon Valley and toward Sean Parker and the investment of Peter Thiel.

00:12:00.460 The whole story is kind of framed around these two simultaneous lawsuits, the Winklevoss twins

00:12:05.760 suing Zuckerberg for stealing his idea and Eduardo, Zuckerberg's previous best friend,

00:12:11.860 suing him for pushing him out of the company and diluting his shares down to almost nothing.

00:12:18.080 In the end, both cases end up settling. The movie, I said it starts with Zuckerberg

00:12:23.700 having problems with a woman in his life well that in the sort of finison cane reveal at the

00:12:31.120 end of the movie is zuckerberg sitting alone refreshing his ex-girlfriend erica's facebook

00:12:37.740 page just waiting to see if she will accept his friend request and she does not the irony is very

00:12:44.480 clear facebook has 500 million friends zuckerberg doesn't have a single one

00:12:50.300 i love the ending so much it's so good because he's so sad and so alone

00:13:00.240 and he just keeps refreshing the page and it lingers on that moment it holds

00:13:07.400 and he has this conversation with sean parker sean parker says the reason i started napster

00:13:15.640 was because there was a girl I wanted to get her attention.

00:13:19.460 She was with someone else.

00:13:21.780 And Zuckerberg asked him, like, do you still think about her?

00:13:25.740 Do you still think about that girl?

00:13:27.060 And Sean Barker's like, no.

00:13:29.580 But you've got Mark Zuckerberg who's still hung up on, oh, she broke up with me.

00:13:35.500 He tries to have that conversation with her later.

00:13:38.660 He's like, oh, I made this website.

00:13:41.060 Have you seen it?

00:13:42.180 Maybe you've heard of it.

00:13:43.060 And she's like, good luck with your video game.

00:13:45.640 yeah that Sean Parker scene really stuck with me he said he he's like oh you want to know why

00:13:51.840 I admit a Napster the girl I loved in high school was with the captain of the lacrosse team so I

00:13:56.240 wanted to take her from him so I started the next big thing and he's like he's like oh I saw your

00:14:01.880 your face smash blog and Zuckerberg is like oh like that was just me you know playing the the

00:14:08.020 trolls and basements online but Parker is like no no I wasn't dismissing it I loved it like

00:14:13.220 isn't that what this whole thing is about you know this is our time and I think like it just 0.96

00:14:19.620 really points to the ethos of technology being that gross childish toxic men with a misogynistic

00:14:26.800 chip on their shoulder and clearly for Parker it was not even about that girl really he's like I

00:14:31.740 don't even think about her at all it was about the girl was just a a through line to make himself

00:14:39.360 feel more important than this like jock on the lacrosse team who he feels like bested him and so

00:14:44.160 i say that to say you see how much of our current tech infrastructure is built by personal deeply

00:14:50.480 personal animus and misogyny yes i mean the whole idea that facebook started he in the movie at least

00:15:02.860 he gets broken up with goes straight home makes this um based on makes this being rating two

00:15:11.060 pictures of two women and then there's a scene that follows like a montage scene of a bunch of

00:15:18.640 college dudes like laughing and rating the women and then also there there's a through line we're

00:15:26.160 going to come back to but of exclusivity and zuckerberg really wanting to get into these

00:15:32.460 private final clubs let me get it right final clubs okay um which are i i don't know they sound

00:15:40.120 like fraternities where you get hazed and i guess they're really fancy and well-known but

00:15:44.960 he really wants to get into them and does not uh but you so you have a scene of those final

00:15:56.060 clubs where there's a bus picking up young women and the men are watching them like strip and kiss

00:16:04.180 and all of this stuff and then you have like shots of women seeing face mash and being like 0.69

00:16:10.480 oh this is so pathetic this is so sad and then you see erica kind of finding out erica the girl

00:16:18.080 that broke up with him finding out what she wrote about him and being mocked for it and so i thought 0.61

00:16:24.520 that was a really interesting like the way that montage breaks down of seeing what how this plays

00:16:32.660 out online because zuckerberg makes the point several times we're trying to put the college

00:16:37.540 life online but also how it is playing out in like in real life on in college like outside of

00:16:45.680 the internet in college yeah there's the scene where that you sort of you just described it

00:16:51.900 where Erika is in her dorm and Mark in his angry blog after she dumps him says like, oh, she may

00:16:59.220 seem like she's got a decent body, but she's getting a lot of help from padding and Victoria's 0.54

00:17:03.940 Secret. Two guys bust into her dorm room to berate her about this, shaking bras at her. And I think 1.00

00:17:10.000 it really shows like just the climate of casual massage these women are existing in both online 0.99

00:17:15.020 and off but once it's once that world is transferred to the the digital realm how it

00:17:21.760 becomes supercharged right and you know mark has this line in the movie where he says what we want

00:17:28.200 to do with facebook it's like building a finals club except we're the president because in the

00:17:32.540 movie you see both mark and his friend eduardo having a lot of like rivalry intention and anxiety

00:17:37.920 about whether or not they're going to get into the best finals club that that argument with erica at

00:17:42.140 the beginning of the movie, it starts with her saying, you should try out for the easiest to

00:17:46.860 get into club. And he's like, what, you think I kick it into the harder to get into clubs? And so,

00:17:50.660 you know, I really think that idea that like, what if we use the internet to build a world

00:17:55.440 that is all about the exclusivity and, you know, gross parts of frat life, only we're in charge of

00:18:02.120 it. Like that, I think that like, that really is when I am on Facebook or X or Instagram. I feel

00:18:08.820 like I he really did that really does nicely summarize I think the tech landscape that we're

00:18:13.900 all in now it's like a finals club except it's run by people like Mark Zuckerberg yes yes and he

00:18:20.760 also has a line in the beginning when he's talking with Erica about so condescending where he says

00:18:28.040 you know you should really be more invested in this and because I'm going to be opening the

00:18:33.460 doors for you essentially you're going to meet a lot of people because of me and that just reminds

00:18:40.240 me so much of a lot what is going on with her a lot of things but in this instance the tech 0.95

00:18:46.700 industry is you know you can women marginalized folks you can come in but we're the ones going 1.00

00:18:52.900 to open the door and you have to exist within our framework and with our within our rules

00:18:58.320 and i i feel like we've just seen that it's so many so many lawsuits like the lawsuit

00:19:04.260 with blizzard uh is one that comes to mind where it feels very like you can come in but

00:19:11.280 we can kick you out just as easily you need to exist only for only in the way we think that you

00:19:18.160 should exist and when we see the montage of all the different guys that are around it's like part

00:19:23.280 of me is like these are the people she's meant to be thanking you for putting her around these guys

00:19:27.440 all seem like animals, you know, like these like drunk guys who are like hooting at women to take

00:19:34.620 their clothes off. I'm I'm supposed to be like, oh, yeah, thanks for getting me into this world.

00:19:40.620 This is what I've always wanted. Yeah, right.

00:19:50.080 Behind every night spent making the kids lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat

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00:20:50.340 When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.

00:20:55.800 I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

00:21:02.180 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.

00:21:05.880 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, 0.96

00:21:11.300 shut up, don't say anything.

00:21:13.960 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. 0.98

00:21:18.500 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.

00:21:23.080 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.

00:21:30.500 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:21:34.460 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

00:21:37.900 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:21:41.040 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:21:50.000 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

00:21:55.940 This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

00:22:08.420 I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.

00:22:15.540 I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.

00:22:19.120 From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table.

00:22:25.060 It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse.

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00:22:42.140 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:22:48.080 See you between the pages.

00:22:55.820 I found it interesting because this is my first viewing.

00:22:58.880 I've never actually seen it.

00:23:00.060 I've only seen like previews or like excerpts of it.

00:23:04.340 So there was a lot of fascination

00:23:05.660 because this is also putting me back

00:23:07.860 into the beginning of Facebook

00:23:10.140 because I was in that era.

00:23:12.040 I was at the beginning remembering you had to be an EDU.

00:23:16.880 It had to be an EDU in order to register

00:23:19.000 into Facebook to begin with.

00:23:21.380 And it only really stuck with you in that university

00:23:24.560 that that's the only way you could get into Facebook.

00:23:26.680 Like I was in that era.

00:23:27.900 So seeing all the beginning of this

00:23:29.480 And then seeing the beginning of Silicon Valley and like, we didn't know what that meant at that time, as this was beginning in the year of 2005.

00:23:38.600 By the way, I found out I was older than Zuckerberg at that moment.

00:23:41.480 And I was like, I hate everything right now.

00:23:43.280 I hate it.

00:23:43.840 Like when you start like referencing timelines, I'm like, God, OK, fine.

00:23:48.140 Anyway, but seeing all of that, seeing it unfold and then them not exactly us, not exactly realizing what this went into, but seeing this in an entertainment value, also in the rhetoric of like Dawson's Creek era of monologues or dialogues that I was like, what is what is this?

00:24:08.400 That's flicking, baby.

00:24:10.100 Yes, it is.

00:24:11.520 Like the Ari McBill days of dialogue and conversation and characters.

00:24:17.720 I was like, wow.

00:24:20.580 Wow, this movie really is what's the beginning of a whole new like subplot slash like ideals and plot lines that would become stereotypical now.

00:24:34.760 It's so funny to hear you say this.

00:24:36.440 I'm rewatching Dawson's Creek and boy,

00:24:40.160 do those kids make a lot of dramatic monologues in public to each other.

00:24:44.500 But that was Sorkin. Sorkin.

00:24:46.360 I don't know if you ever watched the West Wing,

00:24:48.120 which I loved or the newsroom, which is like a terrible show,

00:24:52.360 but I secretly have seen every episode and love it very much.

00:24:55.900 But like the amount, like in normal life,

00:24:58.960 how often has someone stood up on a plane and made it,

00:25:01.600 made it a dramatic grandstanding speech in Sorkin world.

00:25:04.540 that happens like every other beat yes it is kind of satisfying to watch oh i love it i love it i'm

00:25:12.440 i'm such a sucker for i'm a sucker for so many of the sorkin uh tropes the speeches the the walking

00:25:19.840 quickly while discussing something west wing did that it's just like it's just like something in

00:25:24.900 my brain i'm like yes show me two people quickly strutting they couldn't take a minute to discuss

00:25:30.840 this thing standing or like just get book time on my calendar make have a meeting no we have to

00:25:35.540 we're so busy we gotta like do a walk and talk I love a walk and talk um yeah I remember when

00:25:41.700 Facebook so I was I was in college when Facebook became big I remember I remember when I started

00:25:48.040 college before Facebook was invented and I graduated when Facebook was a thing I was a scene

00:25:54.720 kid an alt kid so i was like a myspace girl a live journal girl like if you were alt those were

00:26:02.960 your platforms when facebook came i remember the girl in the dorm next to me she claimed to have

00:26:08.300 been the reason why facebook came to our college because i think you had to like advocate for you

00:26:13.480 at this time after all the exclusive ivs got facebook yeah you had to advocate for your

00:26:19.360 big public university to get it like to to have for Facebook to dain to be there and this girl

00:26:27.740 who lived next to me was like I'm the reason why Facebook came to East Carolina University

00:26:31.740 I remember thinking it was kind of passe and that MySpace was where all the cool kids were

00:26:39.020 because you can put music on your MySpace profile like you could like customize your MySpace profile

00:26:43.560 And it's so funny how obviously MySpace didn't did not have staying power.

00:26:52.960 You know, MySpace.com is not the like is not meeting in the Trump White House and like disrupting our democracy.

00:26:59.200 Not to say that MySpace was all good because it wasn't.

00:27:01.320 But it's just funny how if I had to guess which one of these platforms would go on to entrench itself in power, it would not have been Facebook.

00:27:10.000 Yeah. Yeah.

00:27:11.320 No, I had to look up because now I'm like, oh, there was a, there was a, I guess, a tier in how Facebook would allow who, which universities.

00:27:20.480 I had to look up my school.

00:27:21.760 It was really late 2004, 2005.

00:27:24.020 Wow.

00:27:24.300 We were pretty early on and we were not Ivy League.

00:27:27.480 I have to look this up.

00:27:28.840 UGA.

00:27:29.420 It was UGA.

00:27:30.780 That's a really good school.

00:27:32.300 It was a good school, but we're not Ivy League.

00:27:34.120 Come on.

00:27:34.620 You like, come on.

00:27:36.580 but like I was like because I remember being I think I started I think I became my account in

00:27:42.300 2005 2006 okay I think my school was in the same I just looked it up and it said ECU East Carolina

00:27:53.380 University where I'm to college a much worse school than UGA I mind you uh got Facebook around 2004

00:27:59.720 2006 so I would have been yeah that would have been like around junior to senior year for me

00:28:05.560 that's that's that sounds right i feel like i um facebook came out i was never on myspace i wasn't

00:28:12.100 on anything like that so i just didn't join it and my friends kind of got on it and then uh in 2010

00:28:20.300 2009 oh it had to have been earlier than that 2000 i would say 2008 uh i when i went to australia

00:28:28.140 whenever that was uh my friends made me sign up for facebook so we could share pictures together

00:28:34.860 and i have to say that's pretty much what it's remained as this since then it's just where i

00:28:41.720 put some pictures sometimes yeah now it's pretty much dead that is another thing and this is kind

00:28:47.580 of a transition into the one of the next things i want to talk about is it was fascinating watching

00:28:53.720 this movie because now they have this whole conversation about how facebook is so cool

00:29:00.460 we can't make money because it's so cool um that that would ruin the vibe uh and now it's like

00:29:07.740 pretty uncool yeah but it was you know in 2010 it was still pretty cool but i wanted to talk about

00:29:16.820 some of the the takeaways watching it now versus when like bridget and i saw it i saw it when it

00:29:24.760 first came out oh same i was hyped for it we talked about the trailer remember the the choral

00:29:30.820 version of radiohead's creep y'all know if y'all weren't there y'all don't remember i was hyped

00:29:36.500 for this movie it was i was so that the trailer was so arresting i must have watched that trailer

00:29:41.680 half a dozen times the tagline you don't get to 500 million friends without making a few enemies

00:29:46.960 like annie and i were on the same same wave on this one i would have never thought i would be

00:29:52.740 at the theater to see it because i wasn't like big into facebook or anything but i saw that

00:29:57.060 trailer and i was like that music i gotta go which we are going to talk about the music later because

00:30:00.940 the music is amazing um but yes i just wanted to discuss and you know samantha as a first time

00:30:08.040 view it might be interesting you might have some different thoughts but it was weird watching it

00:30:13.540 now especially because we've discussed uh in in several episodes but the one that comes to mind

00:30:21.920 that i didn't know about uh people show up that i wasn't expecting to show up so larry summers

00:30:27.680 you talked about how larry summers is in the epstein files um he's a character in this movie

00:30:35.720 i forgot about peter teal i have to say i remembered this movie pretty well maybe i

00:30:41.280 just didn't know his name but i was shocked when that name was dropped fellow epstein

00:30:47.860 but friend it's like funny like two different deep deep collaborators of Jeffrey Epstein in

00:30:54.100 the same movie or portrayed in the same movie Larry Summers former president of Harvard and

00:30:59.500 Peter Thiel I do think so I just recorded an episode of my podcast There Are No Girls on

00:31:04.520 the internet about Peter Thiel and his connection to Epstein and like it's just a good reminder

00:31:09.980 how much of the infrastructure of technology and the internet Peter Thiel has been has had his

00:31:18.620 hooks in and hands in you know whenever you whenever you hear about something involving

00:31:22.640 like extremist influencers or just just know that like Peter Thiel's got his grubby little

00:31:28.660 hands in there somewhere yeah it was kind of interesting to see in this perspective of like

00:31:35.220 we don't want advertising we don't want to be that uncool but we will take a big investment

00:31:39.600 from a really giant corporation, that's okay.

00:31:42.920 I'm like, I feel like that's one in the same,

00:31:46.060 and this is a weird compromise,

00:31:48.520 except for the fact that it was thought up by who, I guess.

00:31:52.260 I'm assuming this was true,

00:31:54.060 that Zuckerberg really did love Sean Parker that much.

00:31:58.280 Ooh, yeah.

00:31:59.040 Was that true? Okay.

00:32:00.440 So I, can I make a quick diversion?

00:32:03.280 I just love that scene so much.

00:32:04.540 The scene where Sean Parker, portrayed by Justin Timberlake,

00:32:09.600 takes zuckerberg and um eduardo out to dinner to talk about facebook the way that zuckerberg just

00:32:17.580 instantly is in love with sean parker and everything sean parker represents so quickly

00:32:22.880 eduardo basically watches his friend just like become enamored with this man it's almost sexual

00:32:29.680 there's a there's a scene where sean parker has suggested to zuckerberg to move his operations

00:32:35.480 to California and a ditched Eduardo. Zuckerberg does that. In the scene where Parker is told this

00:32:43.180 information, they share such a meaningful, charged glance. It almost seemed sexual to me.

00:32:51.740 I guess I'll just put it that way. I'm curious what you all thought. Okay. Fan fiction note of

00:32:57.180 the episode. I have to put it in here. I wasn't even looking for this. I was not looking for this,

00:33:02.960 But apparently it's a pretty big ship to ship Eduardo and Mark from the movie.

00:33:10.400 There's social networking, there's social network fan fiction.

00:33:14.100 Oh, my God.

00:33:15.140 There's fan fiction for anything you can imagine.

00:33:17.000 But it came up and I was researching something completely different and it came up.

00:33:21.160 I was like, this must be a pretty significant ship for it to be mentioned in this random article.

00:33:26.620 But I bet I didn't see anything about Sean Parker and Mark Zuckerberg shipping.

00:33:32.960 But I bet he's like the one that kind of ruins their relationship and then they have to get back together.

00:33:39.100 Like maybe he's the one that Mark is like a flame.

00:33:44.840 So, so attracted to has to, yeah, and then realizes he's terrible.

00:33:51.580 You're making up a scenario right now, Annie, as we say.

00:33:55.480 I've read this story with different characters.

00:33:57.820 I can see it, is what I'm saying.

00:33:59.580 I can see it too.

00:34:00.780 No, I totally see it.

00:34:01.920 And I remember when Trump was reelected, there was this like micro moment where people talked about like Mark Zuckerberg having a quote, like mask off moment.

00:34:12.500 And I think the I think the social network pushes back on that framing because I think Mark Zuckerberg is not wearing a mask.

00:34:21.180 He is the mask. I think that we see it in that scene with Sean Parker, how quickly he just becomes enamored.

00:34:27.320 i think that like people were like wow zuckerberg really just fell in line with trump i don't think

00:34:32.720 that's i think that zuckerberg when he when when somebody with power is standing in front of him

00:34:38.180 i think that he just falls in line i think he's completely spineless has no internal morals or

00:34:44.700 values or drive of his own he is entirely dictated by people around him i think that's what eduardo

00:34:50.580 is seeing about his friend in like clearly in that scene with sean parker i think we see it

00:34:56.220 how Zuckerberg falls in line with people with power today in 2026 as well.

00:35:02.140 It is interesting because you note that he is found he finds everyone in his age range

00:35:08.380 in Harvard in that area to be inferior to him, even though they are outdoing him in

00:35:13.360 ways and that makes him even angrier, like Eduardo being more money and getting invited

00:35:19.200 into these final clubs when he is not seeing the Winklevoss twins who have come out to be,

00:35:24.120 oh no, the rowing people that he feared

00:35:26.840 because his girlfriend actually mentioned

00:35:28.600 possibly want to be with a rower.

00:35:31.100 Like that was that catalyst of like, 0.99

00:35:32.880 oh, let me screw these people over to show her

00:35:35.120 these people are not better than me. 0.54

00:35:37.420 Like this level.

00:35:38.280 But then the one person who is super cool

00:35:40.780 and against the system supposedly,

00:35:42.660 it compliments him.

00:35:43.920 That's all he had to have in order to like crumble

00:35:46.440 and be like, yes, let me follow your lead.

00:35:48.500 Because like Parker knew how to manipulate.

00:35:53.380 yeah those desperate for that type of attention exactly and like we see the way that zuckerberg

00:35:59.640 is so easily manipulated along the lines of his own insecurities and in that scene i was describing

00:36:04.980 earlier where zuckerberg is like oh i only made face smash to you know appeal to the the trolls

00:36:10.560 online and sean parker is like no like i i thought face smash was good parker tells him

00:36:15.480 you know when i started napster i like the grown-ups in the room wanted to take it away

00:36:21.900 from me because i was one of those trolls like i think he's using language that is like we our like

00:36:26.880 those are our people and now this is our time to rule so i think you're exactly right samantha

00:36:32.220 that's such a perceptive point that like the whole thing is about inverting who has power

00:36:38.520 let's take the let's please wrote these like rich not that zuckerberg wasn't rich but these like

00:36:43.940 jock guys who get everything let's invert everything so that they don't have power and

00:36:50.120 we do this is our time the grown-ups aren't running it the jocks aren't running it it is

00:36:54.680 people like you and me and that's who's running it that's what we're building a system around

00:36:58.200 and that system is built on misogyny and personal animus and insecurities yeah yes and it reminds

00:37:07.040 me of in our current political climate it's obvious how much is run by personal vendettas

00:37:14.420 It's not even being hidden of these men being like, you know what, you wronged me once, in my opinion, and I am going to remember this and punish you forever.

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00:40:34.180 one of the things i do love about the ending though is you know even then he's never gonna

00:40:41.460 be happy he's never gonna be happy but something else that i my mind caught on watching this

00:40:48.500 re-watching this now is um the line move fast and break things and that reminds me of the

00:40:56.740 conversation we're having about ai because i was watching some interviews with the people who are

00:41:01.980 behind those companies and they were saying like oh well it's happening now even though it's not

00:41:07.040 ready so we're just going to put it out right now and we whatever the damage is we don't really care

00:41:12.800 uh so seeing that and the music which I cannot stress enough uh I love it is by um Trent Reznor

00:41:23.980 and Atticus Ross from Nine Inch Nails and I it's like so droning and full of dread but it also has

00:41:32.860 like these melancholy melancholy notes and I it feels like what's coming the music to me feels

00:41:42.860 like this is happening this is inevitable whatever this is and so I have this quote from IndieWire

00:41:48.940 that I love. The social network is both a thrilling, queasy exploration of how Facebook

00:41:54.180 came to be and a searing indictment of what it would inevitably become. Yeah. Yeah. That is so

00:42:01.320 true. And, you know, remember this movie came out in 2010. In the 2010s, we were still seeped in a

00:42:09.420 certain kind of techno optimism, right? Like we still had this idea. Like, I think that Google,

00:42:15.340 their motto was still don't be evil a motto they would later officially drop i guess their motto

00:42:20.220 was like a little evil is okay as a treat but you know i think that you could have a little

00:42:24.820 you know this movie i think really just cut through and gave us a different

00:42:32.520 peak at what ultimately would be the future i think a lot of a lot of media about technology

00:42:37.780 and the climate around it was very positive at this time i think this movie came in it was like

00:42:42.280 actually the reality is going to be something a little like that sounds like a melancholy Trent

00:42:47.360 Reznor score. It's not going to be that positive, actually. Yeah. And one of the things you said

00:42:53.740 that also stuck out to me and I found interesting reading reviews about this movie from 2010

00:43:01.020 was that there is this idea of, you know, we're the ones in power now. We're the ones making

00:43:07.920 the decisions we're the ones deciding who comes into the club what have you uh and there is a

00:43:14.280 very kind of like nerd versus athlete vibe and i love erica's line where she says you're gonna go

00:43:21.160 your whole life thinking people hate you because you're a nerd but it's actually because you're

00:43:24.520 an all-time all-time iconic line i have to say she handled that fantastically

00:43:31.680 uh that whole breakup scene she says the kind of thing that you wish you could say in your head

00:43:37.580 and she actually says it that that's a line that would haunt me until i would be thinking about

00:43:44.180 if somebody laid some like that on me i'd be thinking about it on my deathbed yes absolutely

00:43:49.920 uh oh so good but what one of the things that stuck out to me of watching this now

00:43:57.960 and there's a quote i can never find it i believe it was a john oliver stand-up bit

00:44:03.820 but he was basically saying like nerd stop being so angry you inherited the earth

00:44:08.100 you're like i i don't know why you're still having all of this rage when you're the ones

00:44:17.300 that are controlling so many spaces and making so much money uh so that was kind of

00:44:24.940 interesting to watch because a lot of the reviews at the time were saying that this movie was very

00:44:30.300 anti-nerd and i i didn't get that take at all i thought it was if anything sympathetic to mark

00:44:36.900 zuckerberg like not too sympathetic but more sympathetic than i would think uh i didn't think

00:44:43.480 it was anti-nerd i thought it was like look at this poor guy can't get any friends yeah i mean

00:44:50.400 sean parker is like the nerd king in this movie who sleeps with victoria's secret models always

00:44:57.500 has drugs always has young probably cutting it close young women around uh that's actually based

00:45:03.780 in some rumor that is not fictionalized i cannot confirm nor deny but you could do your own research

00:45:09.800 there uh but then in the end he also is somebody who cowers when eduardo like like goes to punch

00:45:17.260 him he's somebody who has lots of allergies and asthma like the movie i think the movie is trying

00:45:22.900 to show a more complex portrait i do agree with you that it's that it's simp that it's a more

00:45:28.340 sympathetic complex portrait than just like the nerds are bad the nerds aren't winning the nerds

00:45:36.640 are rich the nerds control everything the nerds are building their tech infrastructure nerds have 0.95

00:45:40.260 all the power and they're also pathetic like i think that's what it's trying to say yes yes i 0.94

00:45:46.760 agree i think the i guess it's the lawyer at the end i feel is the most sympathetic otherwise i 0.95

00:45:52.880 I wouldn't have noticed it at all. 0.80

00:45:54.080 But when she's like, you're not an a**hole, you're trying so hard to be. 0.99

00:45:56.500 I was like, but maybe he is. 0.97

00:45:59.180 Maybe he feels like he has to be.

00:46:01.560 And, you know, you put something in the outline that I hadn't thought about before.

00:46:07.160 How in the movie, the only person who is trying to get in the way of this meteoric growth at all costs is Eduardo, Zuckerberg's good friend.

00:46:17.860 And I do think it like I just I know how we treat people who are moderating voices, people who are like, let's pump the brakes.

00:46:25.140 Let's do more research. Here's research that I did showing that this thing is harmful.

00:46:29.220 How tech spaces deeply marginalize and silence at best to those people.

00:46:36.440 At worst, they do like that. That's the best, typically the best case scenario is those voices are silenced or marginalized.

00:46:43.100 and i think we see it in eduardo i think we see the voices who have anything other than

00:46:49.280 move fast break things balls to the wall do what needs to be done win at all costs

00:46:53.660 like anybody who might present any kind of challenge to that ethos is quickly labeled as

00:46:59.500 an as a hostile enemy yes and it reminds me of a lot of the conversations we've had about guardrails

00:47:05.720 um with ai and eduardo kept being like you know maybe is this legal we've got a cease and desist

00:47:13.760 letter like maybe right just having all these concerns and being completely dismissed which

00:47:18.720 i have to say in the movie at least zuckerberg does not listen to anyone but sean parker i

00:47:23.740 suppose but he just doesn't listen he's just like on his own wavelength um but it did it reminded me

00:47:31.960 of how we've seen that in tech time and time again.

00:47:35.860 Let's just don't worry about that.

00:47:38.340 We don't need to care about that.

00:47:39.540 Not listening.

00:47:41.360 Like I just reported recently on the scores

00:47:45.760 of global women's groups and advocates

00:47:48.280 begging Mark Zuckerberg and Meta

00:47:50.940 not to put facial recognition technology in Meta glasses,

00:47:55.000 basically saying we already know from all this reporting

00:47:58.440 about how Meta glasses are already right now

00:48:01.400 being used to harass the rail and stalk women right that's going that's on that's happening now

00:48:05.260 if you add facial recognition technology you are going to supercharge this this is going to be

00:48:09.840 you are going to be making it so much more dangerous and like first of all obviously like

00:48:16.900 i don't even i don't even think that you would need to be a researcher to show that but just

00:48:21.060 the way that like i i've seen this movie before they're gonna do it and then they're gonna be

00:48:26.460 like oopsie we didn't know like we need to like oh and it's like no you did know you just didn't

00:48:30.860 listen you did know you just decided to do it anyway because you saw a way to make more money

00:48:36.060 and get more power so yeah i think i think we're just seeing the same dynamic with eduardo and

00:48:42.180 guardrails in the way that meta moves today yeah and that relates to something else that stuck out

00:48:48.020 to me in this movie is uh when sean parker says privacy is a time gone by which felt so strange

00:48:55.400 because that was in 2010 that was such a different time when it came to that uh when it comes to

00:49:02.500 privacy and now here because he's saying it more in the sense of he was very paranoid people are

00:49:08.740 following him you know somebody planted the cocaine it wasn't mine how'd the coke get in there

00:49:14.920 do you think it was eduardo or maybe it was zuckerberg i don't know at the end they make

00:49:22.120 a very compelling case yes i agree but you know that idea of zuckerberg hearing this person he

00:49:30.160 idolized uh having this you know privacy is the time come gone by they're going to be trying to

00:49:39.420 destroy you trying to find anything to destroy you and and then him having this company that

00:49:45.820 it just erodes all of those privacy protections for everybody yeah it erodes privacy protections

00:49:53.420 and figures out a way to turn people's data into a commodity that they benefit from and profit from

00:50:00.880 like the scene early on when somebody comes up to Zuckerberg and he's like do you know if so-and-so

00:50:07.160 from your such-and-such class has a boyfriend and he's like it's not like people wear a sign

00:50:11.580 around their neck that says single or married or taken or interested and he's like oh wait a

00:50:15.660 it i should invent that and then i would profit from it like privacy i i and i agree with sean

00:50:22.260 parker's assessment like privacy is dead and people like mark zuckerberg and sean parker have

00:50:28.420 figured out a way to cash in from the intimate parts of people's of who people are like it's

00:50:36.040 dead because they broke it to make money off of it i did find it interesting because they try to

00:50:43.640 portray Sean Parker as if he was

00:50:45.640 just completely paranoid about

00:50:47.600 these are the things that are happening and I'm like actually

00:50:49.720 now that I look at it if I had watched it then

00:50:51.640 I would have thought he was paranoid watching it today

00:50:53.500 I was like no it was probably true

00:50:55.220 part of that was probably true they probably

00:50:57.480 really were watching you to be honest

00:50:59.040 yeah I don't think he

00:51:01.540 was I mean cocaine does make you paranoid

00:51:03.420 I think

00:51:04.500 he's not completely wrong yeah I think he's I don't think

00:51:07.540 what's the X-Files quote like it's not

00:51:09.520 paranoia if they actually are out to get you

00:51:11.520 is that it like

00:51:12.300 yeah looking back knowing where we are today without like 2010 i would have not

00:51:19.060 guessed this is where we would be like this is a 16 years down the road of like wow this has

00:51:24.760 progressed in such a way and looking up sean parker because i was like what's he up to today

00:51:29.280 turns out he's an ai um these guys are yeah like i'm like he really jumped into everything he

00:51:36.100 jumped into spotify he jumped into all these things knowing that yeah like he knew things

00:51:40.820 were coming and he understood the groundwork but seeing all of this from that perspective to this

00:51:47.180 and then also linking to them like were they all on the epstein list yes because that group knew

00:51:52.540 who these kids were going to be at that time and who was going to be able to control what on top of

00:51:57.860 when they had that conversation about victoria's secret i thought that was a really interesting

00:52:01.980 tidbit not only because like they were marketing off of like uh the bodies of women but because

00:52:07.680 this corporation took something

00:52:10.160 and made it be like

00:52:11.680 not a big deal into

00:52:14.060 something giant that grew

00:52:16.120 into this network that

00:52:18.120 became really insidious

00:52:19.720 behind the scenes and they

00:52:22.120 are all linked together. It's

00:52:24.020 such a mind

00:52:26.280 blowing moment seeing that

00:52:28.320 from the past.

00:52:29.940 Speaking of Victoria's Secret,

00:52:32.120 the person who was briefly mentioned

00:52:34.040 at that scene when Parker is talking about Victoria's Secret,

00:52:36.580 Lex Wexner,

00:52:37.680 Guess who Lex Wexner gave a significant portion of his operations to run Jeffrey Epstein, including limited to a tween girl store.

00:52:49.340 So when you talk about the ways in which these guys really did design what it meant to like the like what what my girlhood felt like looked like what I existed in.

00:53:01.220 that's i mean like it i mean i cannot i cannot overstate the level to which exactly as you said

00:53:08.560 it is a connected network like you know peter teal's funding it jeffrey epstein's funding it

00:53:14.860 let's listen it's like it's like they're all connected and you know when we when people say

00:53:18.980 things like oh we need to like you know like all of this toxic stuff is baked in this is what we

00:53:25.160 mean in my opinion there is no reforming this we need to the only way like we got to tear this

00:53:30.320 system down because all of these things are built in by intention from the very beginning so when i

00:53:36.660 say that i feel like sometimes it sounds like you know just a grandstand but this is what i mean i

00:53:40.900 mean it very literally like when you look at the names that are being dropped you and you look at

00:53:46.100 the circles that they are in how they brought people in who invested what to create this thing

00:53:51.220 literally they have victoria's secrets where they have the models where these models are kind of

00:53:56.760 filtered out to these young people who were like I've always dreamed of dating a model like it came

00:54:01.580 like came into a network of like what is happening on top of the fact of creating young girls 0.86

00:54:08.700 mindsets with these companies like limited to uh Abercrombie & Fitch and Victoria's Secret we were 0.99

00:54:15.840 very heavily influenced by what this was femininity and this was also being a successful woman is to

00:54:22.620 be in these types of clothing to look like these types of people that was created by groups that

00:54:29.460 also funded this and who are now in charge. Exactly. Yeah. Another thing that we've been

00:54:36.700 meaning to talk about this in an episode for a while, I don't think it's news to anybody, but 0.98

00:54:41.840 is the kind of, you know, the male super genius who is an a**hole, you have to let him be an a**hole 0.58

00:54:49.140 because he's a super genius but not always like a lot of times there's a lot of mythos of that 0.92

00:54:56.540 and even even if there isn't i just don't think we should allow assholery um against like people

00:55:05.780 you work with people who work for you just because you're a genius this is one of my biggest pet

00:55:13.840 peeves in media how often we've normalized the idea that if somebody is good at something 0.96

00:55:18.420 they get to treat others like crap and that oh well treating people like crap is actually 1.00

00:55:25.440 why this cool thing happened no you can make good stuff without you don't have to be an asshole 0.99

00:55:31.780 and i and it's also very gendered because the research is very clear that we're much more 0.97

00:55:35.920 likely to tell men that they are geniuses and then women and so it's like who who gets to just 0.74

00:55:42.140 who gets to like who gets the runway to treat people like crap and then it's just fine if the

00:55:49.160 thing they're making is important or it makes a lot of money or it's a really good movie or a

00:55:53.060 really good show you know i i agree with you annie i think that we've had so much media portraying

00:55:58.580 you know these delicate male geniuses as people who shouldn't be allowed to do whatever they want

00:56:06.060 if it means that they build things that are good i don't agree i think i think that's a i think

00:56:09.880 that's like that that sentiment has done a world of bad even if perhaps it is like also maybe like

00:56:16.480 lent itself to like a really good movie or something or a really cool platform yeah and

00:56:21.040 also a lot of these uh tech companies don't actually make money or haven't made money yet

00:56:31.040 so but we're like oh yeah no he's a genius he knows and i'm like does he i don't know we should

00:56:38.760 be giving him that like blank blank check i don't know behind every night spent making the kids

00:56:52.560 lunches there's a lot of suspense will they finally eat the veggies will the pesto survive

00:56:57.180 the first bite will the lunchbox come home empty half full or come home at all and will you finish

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00:57:50.220 When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.

00:57:56.100 I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

00:58:02.600 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.

00:58:06.220 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, 0.96

00:58:11.660 shut up, don't say anything.

00:58:14.400 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. 0.98

00:58:18.820 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.

00:58:23.280 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed,

00:58:28.040 and I just started screaming.

00:58:30.360 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:58:34.820 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

00:58:38.280 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:58:41.880 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:58:50.340 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

00:58:56.280 This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

00:59:08.740 I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.

00:59:15.860 I'm going to have to look up this story.

00:59:17.760 I'm obsessed.

00:59:18.500 So obsessed.

00:59:18.980 from best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments

00:59:23.880 nothing is off the table it's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling

00:59:30.420 characters and that is the trojan horse whether you're looking for literary deep dives smart

00:59:35.700 pop culture conversations or a community of readers who love to think a little too much

00:59:40.460 you're in the right place listen to pro society on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever

00:59:46.920 you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. One of the other things I just briefly wanted to

00:59:58.380 touch on is does succeeding in a capitalist economy at this level necessarily involve

01:00:06.840 backstabbing your friends or using people only for what they offer you? Because I feel like

01:00:12.960 zuckerberg in this movie is very much i can use you for this and then i'm gonna drop you

01:00:18.980 i can use you for this and then i'm gonna drop you and he has this whole he wants to be cool

01:00:27.560 he wants facebook to be cool um and exclusivity vibe but i don't know there was just something

01:00:35.560 about how i saw that in all of his relationships whatever they might be of you know what i'm gonna

01:00:44.160 get what i need out of you and then i'm gonna drop you because facebook is my life and that's it

01:00:48.320 he certainly did it to cheryl sandberg in my opinion you know cheryl sandberg came on as the

01:00:54.340 first ever coo at facebook uh she came on at a time when there was a lot of bad press a lot of 0.64

01:01:01.340 bad behavior a lot of wrongdoing and the sense was oh we were bringing in a woman to sort of

01:01:06.700 be the adult in the room for mark and mark got a lot of cachet out of that of like oh well don't

01:01:13.340 worry about my erratic decision making and erratic behavior uh and like bad business practices

01:01:20.040 there's a woman around who is supposed to be helping when she when cheryl so like she came 1.00

01:01:27.180 to Facebook with like so much fanfare. She wrote Lean In. It was like a book that was supposed to

01:01:32.380 be a defining book of like what it meant for women in the workplace, yada, yada, yada. Cut to her

01:01:37.560 leaving Facebook with hardly even a peep. There was like very little fanfare. And then in the

01:01:42.260 earlier in the early days of a second Trump administration, Zuckerberg completely threw her

01:01:47.140 under the bus. He met with the Trump administration and said, oh, yeah, all of that content moderation

01:01:52.320 and fact-checking and diversity stuff.

01:01:55.360 I wasn't into any of it.

01:01:56.540 All of that stuff was Sheryl Sandberg. 1.00

01:01:58.380 You know how women are? 1.00

01:02:00.080 And there was a little bit of PR, dark arts,

01:02:03.700 where he made a Facebook post about,

01:02:07.180 no, actually, we respect Sheryl Sandberg.

01:02:10.860 Didn't walk back any of the things that he said

01:02:13.240 about all that stuff being, quote, her fault.

01:02:15.420 But it just goes to show,

01:02:16.220 he is somebody who will,

01:02:18.380 when he needed to signal to people

01:02:20.680 that the company had a woman in charge

01:02:23.400 who was a grownup who was moderating him,

01:02:26.540 Sheryl Sandberg was his ride or die.

01:02:28.540 When the tide turned and Trump wanted, you know,

01:02:32.600 there to be less diversity, less inclusivity,

01:02:35.160 less guardrails, he threw her under the bus so quickly.

01:02:38.980 And so I think if you asked Mark Zuckerberg

01:02:41.280 that you should be using people

01:02:43.660 only for what they offer you

01:02:45.040 and people who are in his orbit

01:02:46.580 should understand that that runway is very short.

01:02:49.400 That is not what I believe.

01:02:50.880 I think that you, if he wants to be cool,

01:02:53.920 I don't think ditching your friends is cool.

01:02:55.920 But I also do think, like,

01:02:57.520 I'm not even really sure how to describe this,

01:02:59.340 but, like, we are in a time today

01:03:01.660 where acting like this has been rebranded as cool.

01:03:06.800 When I was coming up,

01:03:08.680 the cool kids stuck by their friends.

01:03:10.260 The cool kids had values.

01:03:11.560 They had morals.

01:03:12.160 They had backbones.

01:03:13.120 I think today what we've repackaged as cool

01:03:15.700 and sold it to a generation of young men and boys

01:03:17.760 is you are a lone wolf you are an alpha money over everything your success over everything

01:03:23.140 you are not part of a community you don't even need to think about stuff like that the only

01:03:26.640 thing that matters is cash and power and so like i i guess i hate to say it but i feel like mark

01:03:33.780 zuckerberg was kind of on the upswing of this wave of that new sentiment that i do think is very is

01:03:40.320 very um commonplace today I guess does that make sense yes I completely agree one of the things I

01:03:49.240 was thinking about when I was re-watching this was I think the first because you can you can like

01:03:56.960 join Facebook and not know who Zuckerberg is especially in the early days um so I didn't know

01:04:02.280 who he was but i think the first time i heard about him was some news piece about how he

01:04:10.500 i don't know wore sandals at a meeting and like wore t-shirts and it was like oh he's changing

01:04:16.080 the game and like it was such a look at him he's a maverick uh and that has stuck i was thinking

01:04:25.980 about how you know in Silicon Valley now it is kind of the the office has got a slide and like

01:04:34.200 it's a very the impact he had I think of that mentality of that kind of I'm an I'm a lone wolf

01:04:43.040 I'm an alpha I think has had a really lasting impact and you can see it reflected in a bunch of

01:04:50.580 other companies oh yes and i think it's important to note like who kind of gets away with that

01:04:56.840 because i don't think if i if i if like a founder that looks like me rolled in wearing a bonnet i

01:05:03.460 think they might feel very differently about it but even look at people like elizabeth holmes 0.95

01:05:08.760 she very intentionally styled herself to look bad like she this is a known thing she intentionally 0.61

01:05:15.140 styled her hair to look undone to signal to people like oh i'm the kind of founder that's 0.91

01:05:19.960 way too busy focused on my business to worry about things like brushing my hair or proper hair care

01:05:25.320 and so you see how like this just becomes another piece of artifice to build your mythos around like

01:05:32.260 that scene where zuckerberg shows up to a hearing in pajamas or something or like sweats i think

01:05:38.740 um it's like it just becomes they're they're they're they're like oh this is my i'm just being

01:05:44.840 my authentic self but not really you're actually using this as a kind of artifice or costume to

01:05:49.260 signal something to others about you so like it's not even any more authentic than somebody who wears

01:05:56.240 a suit to signal that they're professional you know yeah because this whole thing was like i'm

01:06:00.680 breaking the rules i'm a maverick exactly but you're not really breaking the rule you are the

01:06:06.900 whole thing now well he also had to make sure he had to thumb the authority in some way and like me

01:06:14.740 like that like his whole speech about i'm not paying attention to you i'm giving you the minimal

01:06:18.300 attention that i have to because i'm here but to understand i don't want to because i think you're

01:06:22.860 irrelevant i think this is irrelevant as well as the way he dressed this is not this is all for

01:06:28.140 show and i'm better than y'all like this is that continuation of having to prove himself beyond

01:06:34.040 uh his like making sure he that he's meeting his worth and meeting their worth and he needs them

01:06:39.960 to know where they stand because he's so effing insecure like this level of understanding of who

01:06:46.200 he is because he has to establish himself somehow. And this is the only way he can have power.

01:06:52.060 We still see it today in hearings when Zuckerberg is, as I called before Senate or Congress for

01:06:58.100 inquiries and hearings. I think that it is that exact personality dynamic where I'm better than

01:07:05.500 you. I don't have the answer to you. I have seen him try to moderate that because that I think that

01:07:11.580 really is who he is. He really does think that he's better than everybody, smarter than everybody.

01:07:15.700 should not have to why should he have to answer to anybody why should he have to answer about

01:07:19.680 people that he's harmed women and girls that he's harmed why should he why who are you to be asking

01:07:24.880 him questions you know you're just a senator but and i've seen i've seen in hearings in my opinion

01:07:31.600 him trying to moderate what i think is his natural inclination toward disdain for others

01:07:37.340 yeah on the side note there was a random moment of like that popped up and as an asian person i'm

01:07:45.220 I'm going to, as an Asian woman specifically, I want to very much notice this because in

01:07:49.300 my mind, I thought Brenda Song, who plays one of the girlfriends in the character, Eduardo's

01:07:55.420 girlfriend, I thought he was, she was actually the wife that Mark Zuckerberg eventually marries.

01:08:01.880 Oh, Sean Zuckerberg?

01:08:04.380 Yes.

01:08:04.840 I had no idea who she was because I'd never seen the movie.

01:08:07.540 I just knew there was an Asian woman in there and I have really thought this was going to

01:08:10.360 be the revelation of like his wife. 0.72

01:08:12.840 But then the conversation came in about how Asian girls who can't dance like nerdy Jewish boys, they are like attracted to each other. 0.60

01:08:21.360 And then all these things that I was like, oh, what is happening? 0.56

01:08:24.940 And then knowing later on that Mark Zuckerberg does have an Asian wife that I'm like, there's something odd in this conversation.

01:08:33.180 I don't know what Sorkin was thinking and putting this specific scene and then predicting like he get married to this Asian woman who, by the way, is a philanthropist as well as a pediatrician.

01:08:44.000 Like, what the hell?

01:08:45.180 I'm so glad you brought this up.

01:08:46.800 And I I feel like the movie is trying to say something or do something as it pertains to Asian women.

01:08:54.140 What are your thoughts on how Asian women are portrayed in this film?

01:08:57.360 well obviously between her being super crazy as he notes and she sets fire to his bed essentially

01:09:03.840 uh and then also that they are so fetishized by a whole community which i had gotten that line

01:09:10.680 from a jewish dude one time that said that to me i kind of was like what i've never heard this

01:09:15.820 is this your pickup line for me because i gotta go like it was a weird moment but now that i've

01:09:21.660 seen this movie i'm like oh maybe that's where he got it from i don't know but all of that to say

01:09:26.740 It felt very much like in this realm of worlds,

01:09:31.400 like there is, first of all, women are not respected in any way. 1.00

01:09:35.180 There are secondary characters. 1.00

01:09:36.540 Obviously, the secretary, we saw that with the girlfriends, 0.99

01:09:39.740 with the groupies, as they called them,

01:09:41.840 and then with a girlfriend, like all of these things.

01:09:44.260 And even Anne from Parks and Rec, what's her real name?

01:09:47.400 Rashida Jones.

01:09:48.780 Thank you.

01:09:49.220 I know Rashida Jones.

01:09:50.480 Even her placement, even though she was a little more significant,

01:09:52.960 They were all their secondary characters to fulfill this narrative that the men were all in playing for power, that it was interesting.

01:10:01.560 Of course, like there would be a fetishized person, but immediately had to be an Asian woman.

01:10:05.660 And I felt like it was targeted, but I like I can't really grasp it.

01:10:09.580 But I obviously very much noted it.

01:10:11.580 that was my sense too honestly as much as i love this movie i think the movie i think the movies

01:10:17.340 handle the the thread of race only really like like other than asian women like race is i mean

01:10:25.400 race is present because they're all like upper crust white folks and it's certainly very exclusive 0.99

01:10:29.200 to non-whites uh but the only real way that race is handled is through these asian women and i think 0.99

01:10:36.120 it was a little clunky like i think i i think that like they're going for something and i don't

01:10:41.180 think it was fully explored so it just comes off as like well what are they trying to say here

01:10:44.320 right oh it really was like that very throwaway line the very throwaway characters that it was

01:10:49.780 just kind of like what is what is is this supposed to be a joke in this movie at the expense of

01:10:56.680 these women well I yeah and I wasn't I didn't know that about Mark Zuckerberg I actually was

01:11:02.580 going to ask about his current relationship status to bring up a Facebook term I didn't know

01:11:10.900 it is interesting to me that that was the thing that when he heard uh dustin was the one who asked

01:11:20.180 you know do you know that if this girl is single that's when mark had the idea of like oh we'll add

01:11:26.640 relationship status and that's when it's done yeah um because that yeah it is i mean that is a

01:11:33.740 big part of of college life but just to go back to that whole this was rooted in misogyny but

01:11:41.580 it's also interesting because they also hit on the point that they became descriptors the

01:11:46.700 facebook me facebook me called yeah like i'll friend you like they were so excited by that

01:11:53.240 and then also that whole like why is your status single and that was such a big deal

01:11:57.840 at the beginning of Facebook,

01:11:59.720 like to say you're a Facebook official.

01:12:02.560 Yes.

01:12:03.500 It's relevant.

01:12:05.960 It was relevant.

01:12:07.980 Did you ever do the thing where you became like,

01:12:10.700 I'm like in a relationship with a friend of yours

01:12:13.300 or a buddy of yours for some reason?

01:12:15.360 No.

01:12:15.860 I think I put it's complicated one.

01:12:17.660 Yeah.

01:12:18.260 I wanted to see what it would do.

01:12:19.080 You did it's complicated?

01:12:21.840 There was no one there.

01:12:23.280 It's complicated.

01:12:24.200 I'm single.

01:12:25.880 Okay, that's fair.

01:12:26.600 It's actually not complicated.

01:12:27.840 but yeah but yeah no and you did you do this Bridget did you do oh yeah this was like I don't

01:12:35.560 know why it was like you would you would become in in like a complicated you could because like

01:12:39.440 you could also tag a friend so it will be like Bridget Todd is in an in a complicated relationship

01:12:44.720 with such and such like I would do that with my friends for some reason I don't know why

01:12:48.900 don't even ask me why but like to your point I do think the movie one of the undercurrents of

01:12:57.200 the film is how just how much of just like you were saying sam the how we understand and talk

01:13:03.480 about digital relationships and behaviors was started by facebook like this is a small a small

01:13:10.900 scene but it really stuck with me while all the lawsuit stuff is going on zuckerberg is still in

01:13:16.020 school at harvard and he's trying to prep for an art history final and he does it by starting a

01:13:21.420 facebook group as an a with an alias posting pictures and then asking people to comment and

01:13:26.900 he's like oh yeah i just pop in every now and then and leave an incendiary comment to stir the pot

01:13:31.440 to keep the conversation going and i feel like that really mirrors our our current tech landscape

01:13:37.440 where you know incendiary content gets better engagement than other types of content bots and

01:13:44.060 like conflict entrepreneurs are able to just like manipulate people into giving engagement

01:13:47.700 to these platforms and just you know putting money in people's pockets i'm like it's such a small

01:13:53.540 thing but that one little seed would go goes on to be a significant part of the experience of

01:14:00.860 being online today in 2026 which is fascinating to me yeah also side note i don't know if your

01:14:06.500 colleges were like this but the one i went to were very clear that if you invented anything

01:14:11.980 at the college while you were a student they owned it uh so really yes absolutely so people

01:14:23.020 would drop out so that makes sense yeah people came up they had idea the only thing i mean the

01:14:28.900 only thing that came i mean i invented some unique ways to smoke weed out of devices

01:14:35.000 and some interesting water pipes east carolina university oh no

01:14:40.040 oh no interesting paraphernalia and other devices for debauchery were definitely invented

01:14:48.140 they got the rights that's amazing no Bridget I'm curious uh just briefly because I know you

01:14:59.540 have worked with Facebook how how is it watching this movie as somebody who's kind of worked

01:15:05.040 with them oh what a good question I would say my so like my work with platforms was like

01:15:11.360 meeting with them and being like your platform is harming women in xyz kind of way here's a

01:15:18.940 better way to do it what do you say some platforms would be more receptive than others i would say

01:15:23.600 facebook was prop actually this was before elon musk bought twitter now elon musk or x is definitely

01:15:30.120 would be the worst but like back then i would say facebook was the most challenging because all of

01:15:36.140 this stuff is really entrenched like they would take the meeting they would like listen to the

01:15:40.120 presentation and all of that but like nothing really ever got done and i guess it was it's it's

01:15:45.620 i don't want to sound too cynical but i do believe that like facebook is a platform where they're

01:15:50.620 just not they're just they just don't think about this kind of stuff the same way that you or i might

01:15:54.320 i don't think that they you know and like when you take taking it back to the way the company

01:15:59.040 was founded and the origin it's no surprise that they are so hostile to even the implication that

01:16:05.040 their platform should be a place that is not hostile to women like i think that like it's

01:16:10.340 not it's just not terribly surprising to take it back to the origin and be like oh yeah well

01:16:15.040 this is this is like their bread and butter why would they want to make a space that's not hostile

01:16:19.280 to women right right well we could go on and on i know uh are there any like final thoughts you

01:16:29.100 wanted to share Bridget well I'm really excited about the sequel yes the social reckoning um I

01:16:35.840 did read so I've been calling it a sequel but I read that Sorkin has described that as a companion

01:16:40.120 piece rather than a sequel and it's I do feel like the social network is the seed that was planted

01:16:46.320 we're like hey these guys are all massive misogynists and I'm hopeful that the social

01:16:51.340 reckoning will be like the flower that blooms because it's really according to Sorkin it really

01:16:57.240 focuses on Facebook whistleblower Francis Haugen, who we know revealed so much about how Facebook

01:17:02.840 knowingly harmed women and girls based on the 2021 Wall Street Journal expose the Facebook files.

01:17:08.620 And so if the social network is like Zuckerberg really was a misogynist who his personal animus

01:17:16.480 and difficulties with women led him to build Facebook, I am hoping that this movie is like,

01:17:21.520 and here's what that meant. Here's what that means for your daughter. Here's what that means

01:17:25.160 For the women and girls in your life today.

01:17:27.860 Yeah, when you told us that that was the topic they were going to be handling, I was like, oof, that's going to be intense.

01:17:36.220 You're definitely going to have to come back for that, Bridget, when we have our reactions.

01:17:40.880 Mm-hmm.

01:17:42.360 Oh, yes.

01:17:43.120 Go ahead and put it on your calendar.

01:17:44.300 The movie's coming out in October, so I will be back.

01:17:46.540 Okay, perfect.

01:17:48.120 Perfect.

01:17:49.180 Well, thank you so much.

01:17:50.160 This was so much fun.

01:17:51.700 Mm-hmm.

01:17:52.600 I can't wait to continue this series.

01:17:56.340 We'll come up with a good name for it.

01:17:58.200 But, you know, movies about tech.

01:17:59.960 It's going to be fun because this also is kind of the start of like a lot of the shows and movies around Silicon Valley.

01:18:07.140 Yeah.

01:18:07.440 Yeah.

01:18:07.840 So there's a lot for us we could tackle.

01:18:10.820 But in the meantime, Bridget, where can the good listeners find you?

01:18:14.740 You can listen to my podcast. 1.00

01:18:16.000 There are no girls on the Internet. 0.95

01:18:17.080 You can find me on Instagram at BridgetMarieandDC and on threads also at BridgetMarieandDC.

01:18:23.700 Thanks, Zuckerberg.

01:18:26.300 It is always so strange, isn't it, when we do these episodes and then at the end we're like, you can find me on there.

01:18:33.880 Yeah, so thank you so much, Bridget.

01:18:36.640 Listeners, if you would like to contact us, you can.

01:18:38.960 You can email us at hello at stuffwhenevertoldyou.com.

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There Are No Girls on the Internet - May 12, 2026

Mark Zuckerberg's AI Era Has a Woman Problem. It Always Did.

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