There Are No Girls on the Internet - November 01, 2025


Meta RayBans Let Creeps Record Women; Flock’s False Accusation; China's New Influencer Law; Nudify App Ecosystem; Librarian Protests Censorship on GoodReads – NEWS ROUNDUP!

Topics
Why TikTok Turned on the DoorDash Lady From Teen Vogue to Tech, 300K Jobless Black Women are a Warning for Everyone

Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 8 minutes

Words per minute

162.07

Word count

11,069

Sentence count

515

Harmful content

Misogyny

16

sentences flagged

Toxicity

18

sentences flagged

Hate speech

14

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.
00:00:02.540 Guaranteed human.
00:00:04.520 My SUV's worth more than ever.
00:00:07.100 Time to upgrade?
00:00:08.160 There's never been a better time.
00:00:10.060 At Plaza Auto Group, locations get top value for your trade
00:00:13.320 and shop hundreds of new and pre-owned vehicles across 11 locations.
00:00:17.640 And if you can't come to us, we'll come to you.
00:00:19.880 With best-in-class pricing, unbeatable trade values, and 70 years of trust,
00:00:25.100 it's easy to see why families choose the Plaza Auto Group.
00:00:27.980 Plaza Auto Group, celebrating 70 years family-owned and operated.
00:00:32.360 Visit plazaautogroup.com.
00:00:34.600 Run a business and not thinking about podcasting?
00:00:36.860 Think again.
00:00:37.500 More Americans listen to podcasts, then add supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora.
00:00:41.660 And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined.
00:00:45.780 Learn how podcasting can help your business.
00:00:47.620 Call 844-844-iHeart.
00:00:49.880 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.
00:00:55.280 Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.
00:01:03.960 Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions.
00:01:12.200 Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.
00:01:13.980 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:19.360 I survived nine months in captivity
00:01:22.940 And I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them
00:01:28.200 I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are The Survivor Files
00:01:32.020 Every week I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable
00:01:35.780 Abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced
00:01:39.720 These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive
00:01:43.280 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart
00:01:46.520 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
00:01:49.520 or wherever you get your podcasts. 1.00
00:01:55.480 There Are No Girls on the Internet
00:01:56.820 is a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.
00:02:03.580 I'm Bridget Todd,
00:02:04.720 and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet. 0.90
00:02:09.200 You're listening to There Are No Girls on the Internet, 1.00
00:02:11.300 where we explore the intersection of technology, 1.00
00:02:13.660 identity, and social media.
00:02:14.760 And this is another installment of our weekly news roundup where we dig into all the stories online that you might have missed so you don't have to.
00:02:23.040 Okay, let's get into it.
00:02:24.760 Nobody really looks cool when they eat spaghetti, Mike.
00:02:27.900 Not even Will Smith.
00:02:30.360 I was just looking at this Sora video of Will Smith eating spaghetti.
00:02:34.340 This one was actually pretty good.
00:02:36.060 It was pretty convincing.
00:02:36.900 And I'm just so curious how Will Smith eating spaghetti becomes the benchmark of AI video capabilities.
00:02:46.060 Have you seen these Will Smith eating spaghetti videos?
00:02:49.300 I have, you know, and you gave me a heads up that we're going to talk about this.
00:02:53.640 So I did look into it a little bit.
00:02:55.740 Yeah, there's just been like a steady improvement in AI generated videos of Will Smith eating spaghetti over the past several years.
00:03:05.660 But I couldn't find any, you know, definitive or even speculative information about why.
00:03:13.820 Oh, I can I can answer this for you. So we've you're right. We have come a really long way on the Will Smith Spaghetti Eating Index because back in 2023, somebody shared an AI generated video titled Will Smith Eating Spaghetti on the Stable Diffusion subreddit.
00:03:30.520 And they had made this video using Model Scope's text-to-video tool.
00:03:35.680 This was back in 2023, which I know doesn't sound that long ago.
00:03:38.980 It was just two years ago.
00:03:40.360 But AI video capabilities have come a long way since then.
00:03:45.180 The video looks like, Will Smith looks like claymation, kind of.
00:03:51.860 And the way that he eats the spaghetti is grotesque.
00:03:54.780 He kind of eats it like a dog.
00:03:56.500 Like he comes out, he like puts his whole face in it.
00:03:58.340 He's kind of using his hands.
00:03:59.620 That is undignified.
00:04:02.000 It's an undignified way to eat spaghetti, that's for sure.
00:04:04.820 But this grotesque, creepy AF video ended up creating essentially a litmus test for how AI video generation is progressing.
00:04:15.740 I am so curious how Will Smith feels about this.
00:04:19.620 I would hate it if video of me eating spaghetti had become a benchmark about the progression of AI technology.
00:04:27.180 How would you feel about that?
00:04:28.260 I would not like it no it would be a nightmare
00:04:30.420 but
00:04:32.180 I do have a theory about why
00:04:34.340 it's Will Smith I think he has a like 0.99
00:04:36.340 poppy appeal and an
00:04:38.300 accessibility that
00:04:39.880 is able to take this
00:04:42.080 pretty
00:04:43.360 arcane
00:04:45.640 topic of AI
00:04:48.480 video generation
00:04:50.640 and make
00:04:52.400 it like accessible to the common man
00:04:54.440 like maybe we
00:04:55.780 you know if there were numbers or statistics about how good of a video it was that wouldn't
00:05:01.920 really resonate but like everybody can connect with uh will smith and spaghetti these are two
00:05:08.780 very accessible uh things oh you are coming dangerously close to making me admit what i
00:05:17.700 know is an unpopular opinion among a lot of people about will smith i have an unpopular
00:05:22.200 Will Smith opinion in there oh you do what what is your unpopular Will Smith opinion oh my gosh
00:05:27.240 I might have Joey cut this because genuinely I'm nervous to admit this and I know people are going
00:05:33.120 to come for me so we all we all know what I'm talking about the Will Smith infamous slap people
00:05:39.360 act like Will Smith killed somebody when you go on the internet and look how people respond this 0.56
00:05:45.880 is one of those things where it was it were I only got wind of this recently that white people
00:05:53.240 and black people there are a lot of things that we have a lot of common ground on but there are
00:05:58.580 certain things where we just live in completely different worlds and completely different sort
00:06:02.840 of online silos and I only recently found out that white people not all but a lot of white people
00:06:11.260 really never forgave Will Smith for smacking Chris Rock at the Oscars. Meanwhile, Black people, 0.78
00:06:18.700 it never comes up. It's never mentioned. We've all moved on. It's very clear where we stand on
00:06:24.240 the issue. And I only recently found this out that, oh, this is we have very different opinions
00:06:30.460 about Will Smith. And if you don't spend a lot of time in online spaces like Reddit, you might not
00:06:36.400 know that people really, really have not forgiven Will Smith for what went down at the Oscars. I'll
00:06:41.080 just put it that way yes why do you say that because when i was trying to look into the
00:06:44.260 spaghetti thing i was like wow there's a lot of content about him slapping chris rock on here
00:06:48.500 people have never forgotten it yeah so in conclusion you're fine with uh physical violence
00:06:54.280 you think it's cool you think it should be glorified on television yeah i'm a big advocate
00:06:59.320 of physical violence i think i think we need more of it the world will be a better place yeah
00:07:03.860 all right cool yeah obviously no someone's gonna click that and that's gonna be that's gonna be i
00:07:10.300 I can never run for office.
00:07:11.960 Somebody's going to clip that out of context.
00:07:13.820 Thanks a lot, Mike.
00:07:15.040 Hey, you said it.
00:07:16.240 So while we're getting into our unpopular opinions,
00:07:18.940 do you have opinions on wearables,
00:07:22.060 like technology that you wear on your face or your head or your body?
00:07:26.400 I, not too much.
00:07:27.880 I've never really been able to make it work for me.
00:07:31.800 I've always been intrigued.
00:07:33.800 I've like, you know, sometimes I'll play video games where you've got like,
00:07:39.080 you know it's a first person perspective and you've got all kinds of like information on the
00:07:44.320 screen or when you're driving uh a car that has like a lot of information that might be relevant
00:07:51.460 to you while you're driving that always seems kind of cool to me to be able to have access to
00:07:57.220 that while just like existing in the world but uh you know there's a lot of negatives that come with 0.80
00:08:04.840 it too uh one of them being that like you look like a dork with uh some like wearable glasses 0.97
00:08:12.920 on your head huge dork i'm so sad to admit that one of my first way back in the day one of my 0.96
00:08:20.380 first twitter profile pictures was me wearing google glass oh don't even get me started yeah 0.97
00:08:26.640 i remember google glass i was in grad school at the time and i remember scheming with one of my
00:08:31.380 of friends about how we were going to like pitch a research project to google to be able to get
00:08:37.820 our hands on some google glass at that point at google you might have actually been able to do it
00:08:42.040 you know i once demoed some like vr goggles i i firmly believe that nobody wants to sit in their
00:08:48.600 house or be around other people with like a massive thing strapped on their face and i once
00:08:53.860 demoed some vr goggles and it just reminded me of that i think you should leave skit you know 0.95
00:08:59.900 there's too much shit on my face i don't even want to be around anymore that's 0.96
00:09:03.900 instantly how i felt classic skin classic skin we are tim robinson we are i swear that tim robinson 0.98
00:09:11.240 has found a way to describe so many awkward scenarios that i have found myself in so yeah
00:09:17.580 we are fans of him over here i will say though metas ray-bans as much as i do not like wearables
00:09:24.760 and the idea of wearables and i'm kind of against them just in general i think they probably have
00:09:29.280 their place and like a use case. If you're a truck driver or a long haul driver or something,
00:09:33.560 I get it. However, I will say Meta's Ray-Bans, if you've worn them, they look and feel just like
00:09:41.440 normal glasses, which on the one hand, that's kind of cool. It kind of solves the problem that
00:09:47.100 I just articulated of that feeling of there's too much shit on your face. However, them looking like 0.99
00:09:52.860 regular glasses is also a problem. 404 Media has this report out about the fact that there are
00:09:58.900 Instagram accounts, like big Instagram accounts with lots of followers, whose whole thing is using
00:10:05.400 meta Ray-Ban glasses to film themselves going into massage parlors and asking the women who 0.66
00:10:11.900 work there to perform sex acts on them. In these videos, the staff do not seem like they know
00:10:18.220 they're being filmed. And because these glasses, they look like just regular glasses, they probably
00:10:23.740 don't know they're being filmed in most cases the staffers are confused when when the man is like
00:10:30.200 asking for a sex act or they laugh at the man or they just dismiss him but in a few instances the
00:10:36.740 staffers are like okay and negotiate a price for the sex act the man is asking for these videos
00:10:43.700 have been shared and viewed by millions of people and what's worse in some of these videos it is
00:10:50.160 obvious where the location of these massage parlors are because the men show themselves
00:10:55.820 walking into the entrances of these places. They show where they're at. So anybody could
00:11:00.440 essentially find these women. And this is a problem because as 404 reports, this is extremely
00:11:05.540 dangerous to the women in these videos who can be targeted both by law enforcement and racist,
00:11:11.040 sexist extremists. Back in 2021, they remind a man shot, a man who shot and killed eight people
00:11:17.960 at massage parlors told police that he had specifically targeted them because he had a
00:11:22.580 sexual addiction. Now, you might be thinking, how can this get any grosser? Well, these videos are
00:11:29.520 basically a money-making enterprise. They're essentially social media advertisements that
00:11:35.980 offer for people to spend money to buy what they say is the full video of the encounter. This is
00:11:43.080 so gross, they linked out to an adult pay-per-view service called NoFans, which allows users to buy
00:11:49.700 and view non-consensual adult content without creating an account. One video on Instagram
00:11:55.320 that's pitched as a, quote, Latina house call sends viewers to NoFans to buy the full video.
00:12:01.860 On NoFans, users can buy the, quote, Latina Tuggy bundle for $28.49. I should say, though,
00:12:09.280 it's not totally clear if the actual massage staff is then the people who are in these like
00:12:17.240 quote full videos it does seem like they're creating these videos non-consensually with
00:12:23.060 massage staff who do not know they're being recorded and then the and then saying oh if you
00:12:27.920 want to see the full video of what happened go to this site and then the people in that video
00:12:32.760 might not even be the actual staff that we saw earlier does that make sense it does yeah i can
00:12:39.820 definitely see some deception taking place in this ecosystem oh yeah you think you think these
00:12:46.300 guys are deceiving people yeah i just something about it i don't know just you know my my sixth
00:12:52.580 sense i feel like they would not be above uh leading with one video and then once people
00:12:59.260 make that purchase it's actually different actors on the video or maybe nothing at all maybe they
00:13:05.460 just take their credit card and run with it sky's the limit it will never not shock me how much
00:13:11.920 people are willing to spend to be told that they're watching video that was non-consensually
00:13:18.020 made because there's plenty of pornography out there where it is consenting adults who know they
00:13:23.820 are being filmed, who have consented to make adult content. Adding on this kind of non-consensual
00:13:31.100 video they made with somebody who works at a massage parlor who doesn't even know they're
00:13:34.860 being filmed to give it the appearance of, oh, this woman who didn't know I was filming her,
00:13:39.880 you want to watch the whole encounter with her? It just never ceases to amaze me that that would
00:13:45.960 be something that would give people a marketing edge, I guess I'll say. And I also think these
00:13:51.760 videos, they really expose how Meta has essentially created an entire ecosystem that fuels this creepy,
00:13:59.360 misogynistic, privacy-violating content online. They're selling these smart glasses that let
00:14:05.440 people secretly record others in public. They are also running platforms like Instagram that reward
00:14:12.300 the most shocking and extreme and outrageous posts. And then they only step in to take this
00:14:18.940 stuff down after journalists from 404 start asking questions because there is an entire
00:14:25.180 marketplace for low cost. And by low cost, I mean like $40. Low cost ways to obscure
00:14:32.160 what little privacy protective features metaglasses do have, right? So right now,
00:14:39.400 metaglasses have a light on them that is supposed to light up to indicate when somebody is recording.
00:14:44.080 So essentially, if I saw you wearing metaglasses and the light was on, I would know this person
00:14:48.160 is recording but you can just buy little things to obscure that so that no one knows you're
00:14:54.080 recording no one knows their meta glasses when 404 spoke to meta about this they basically said
00:14:59.560 hey you know it's up to the people who buy the glasses to adhere to the terms of service we
00:15:04.240 don't really control that boy that's such a good point that meta is both making and selling the
00:15:13.200 hardware and making money on that and then also make ostensibly making money on the content this
00:15:20.980 like illicit content that is created from the hardware that they sold they're they're really
00:15:25.420 what do you call that like vertically integrated i guess i mean that's a fancy way to put it
00:15:31.400 where i'm from they're running a criminal enterprise i this is i mean this is my opinion
00:15:36.320 at what point is meta we are making money from a criminal enterprise knowingly that's i mean that's
00:15:43.740 i would love to have somebody smarter than me explain how it's not that yeah and it has to be 0.94
00:15:49.880 said that a lot of the women who work at these kinds of massage parlors are migrant women or
00:15:55.520 immigrant women or women who are engaged in sex work right and so they're already marginalized
00:16:00.220 sometimes they're very vulnerable 404 spoke to angela lu the executive director of swan vancouver
00:16:06.300 which is an organization that promotes rights and safety of migrant and immigrant women engaged in
00:16:10.880 sex work. Wu said, quote, earlier this year, Swan Vancouver became aware of disturbing social media
00:16:17.380 videos showing individuals wearing Ray-Ban meta glasses to enter massage parlors across North
00:16:21.840 America and record interactions with workers. Many of these workers are immigrant and newcomer
00:16:27.760 women who may or may not engage in sex work, but experience stigma nonetheless. The shameless use 0.98
00:16:33.740 of covert recording technology at massage parlors to gain likes, attention, and online
00:16:38.620 notoriety is both disgusting and dangerous, yes. Due to criminalization and stigma, sex workers
00:16:45.200 face disproportionate levels of violence and harassment. Violations of privacy can lead to
00:16:49.920 arrest, immigration consequences, and lasting harm. Swan's community made extensive efforts
00:16:55.400 to report these videos and were deeply disappointed that social media platforms allow them to remain
00:17:00.200 online. They say that they've also created a system to warn the women who work at these places,
00:17:06.400 saying, to warn immigrant and migrant women we support, SWAN used our abuser alert system to
00:17:11.500 notify workers about the use of Ray-Ban metaglasses and the videos circulating online.
00:17:16.180 We also received reports of community members about clients entering massage parlors,
00:17:20.480 wearing the glasses, and recording the women without their knowledge. I am really grateful
00:17:24.740 that organizations like SWAN exist that can use technology to help support these women
00:17:30.140 from the kind of surveillance that this kind of technology represents.
00:17:34.300 But I do think this is not just about a handful of creeps with smart glasses.
00:17:40.920 I think it really is about what happens when companies like Meta and Facebook build tools
00:17:46.220 that make exploitation easy, that make it easy to turn that into a money-making enterprise,
00:17:52.240 to make money from somebody non-consensually being sexualized in this way,
00:17:57.140 and then to have the company just shrug when people use them exactly that way.
00:18:02.640 Meta has essentially built an ecosystem where privacy violations are profitable
00:18:07.860 and that the only form of real accountability that might ever even enter the equation
00:18:12.640 only happens after a journalist asks about it, after some sort of public outrage.
00:18:18.760 Yeah, not cool and not surprising.
00:18:22.240 You know, they've got a whole ecosystem built around disrespecting privacy and just letting harms run wild up until the point where they start to get pushback on it.
00:18:40.100 And then maybe they'll do something.
00:18:42.160 Maybe.
00:18:42.700 Maybe.
00:18:43.260 although not for nothing I did once see a very satisfying video where a guy in meta glasses
00:18:49.780 which are recording and I believe that he uploaded the footage and it's one of those things where
00:18:55.140 did you upload this thinking that it made you look cool because it's really the opposite
00:18:59.300 where a guy is trying to get into a strip club and the woman at the door it she knows the drill 1.00
00:19:06.320 exactly she's like oh if you want to come in here home you gotta take those glasses off 0.83
00:19:09.800 and he keeps being like oh they're not they're just regular glasses and she absolutely knows
00:19:14.580 that they're not he keeps trying to like get them in get them in it was a very satisfying watch just
00:19:21.000 watching this this creep think that he can outsmart this woman because she is associated
00:19:26.200 with a strip club and being denied and eventually being kicked out of the establishment very
00:19:31.240 satisfying watch yeah i bet it was and also funny that his his tactic was just to like
00:19:37.120 lie when it sounds like she clearly knew that like they were the meta glasses he's like no
00:19:42.380 they're not let me tell you something nobody knows the drill around technology like anybody 0.95
00:19:47.540 who is even tangentially involved in sex work if you're a stripper or a sex worker you like you 0.77
00:19:53.440 have to know the drill some smug tech bro is not going to outsmart a woman who works the door at 1.00
00:20:00.100 a strip club when it comes to technology there's just no way no yeah a woman working the door at 1.00
00:20:06.220 strip club. Don't cross her. 1.00
00:20:08.660 Yeah, you're not, there's no outsmarting her.
00:20:13.060 Let's take a quick break. 1.00
00:20:20.540 Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet
00:20:22.220 with Crave, Netflix, and Disney Plus
00:20:24.140 from $94 a month. Price guaranteed
00:20:26.140 for two years on internet with a two-year
00:20:28.160 term and auto-pay credit. Visit
00:20:30.000 bell.ca for details and to check availability.
00:20:32.600 Bell. Connection is everything.
00:20:34.220 run a business and not thinking about podcasting think again more americans listen to podcasts
00:20:40.260 than ad-supported streaming music from spotify and pandora and as the number one podcaster
00:20:44.860 iheart's twice as large as the next two combined so whatever your customers listen to they'll hear
00:20:49.580 your message plus only iheart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio
00:20:54.440 think podcasting can help your business think iheart streaming radio and podcasting call 844
00:21:00.560 844-844-IHEART to get started. That's 844-844-IHEART. If your bookshelf and your for you page are
00:21:07.540 equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast
00:21:14.400 that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives,
00:21:18.880 and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.
00:21:23.800 I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books,
00:21:27.100 the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.
00:21:30.980 I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.
00:21:34.500 From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments,
00:21:39.360 nothing is off the table.
00:21:40.820 It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters,
00:21:46.420 then that is a Trojan horse.
00:21:48.300 Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations,
00:21:52.280 or a community of readers who love to think a little too much,
00:21:55.500 you're in the right place.
00:21:57.100 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:22:03.440 See you between the pages.
00:22:05.500 When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.
00:22:11.320 I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.
00:22:17.800 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.
00:22:21.320 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything.
00:22:29.840 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable.
00:22:34.100 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.
00:22:38.660 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.
00:22:46.100 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:22:49.920 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.
00:22:53.580 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:22:57.180 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:23:11.040 At our back.
00:23:12.080 okay so speaking of women outsmarting technology this story from the colorado sun is truly wild
00:23:22.900 and also just illustrates how screwed up our entire tech enabled surveillance landscape is
00:23:29.760 this time not regarding metaglasses it's regarding flock which is a company that operates a vast
00:23:36.880 network of AI-powered video cameras, license plate readers, and microphones for surveillance.
00:23:43.700 If Flock, that company, if they sound familiar to you, it's probably because we talked about
00:23:47.440 them before regarding a situation in Texas where police used Flock to track down a woman
00:23:54.200 who they said had had an abortion. The police said, hey, we used Flock license plate readers
00:23:59.820 to find this woman after her abortion because her family was worried about her. That's the
00:24:04.900 only reason we were trying to find her. They were worried about her safety after this abortion. 0.63
00:24:08.800 They were worried that she was, you know, in some sort of physical danger. And so they had
00:24:13.640 tracked her using Flock license plate reader technology. However, 404 Media, again, shout out
00:24:20.480 to them, they followed up and found that the police, even though they said they were just
00:24:25.380 looking for her because her family was worried about her, police had actually been looking to
00:24:29.400 charge her with a crime for having had an abortion. So it wasn't just that her family was
00:24:34.640 worried about her and looking for her. It was that they wanted to charge her with a crime.
00:24:38.320 So Flock is everywhere. It is in cities all over the country. A lot of towns and cities have
00:24:43.420 contracts with Flock. Balmar, which is a small suburb northwest of Littleton, Colorado,
00:24:49.040 is one of several Colorado towns that has a contract with Flock. So this woman,
00:24:54.680 Christiana in Denver, she got a visit from the police who came to her door with a summons for
00:25:00.120 her, accusing her of stealing a package worth less than $25 from somebody's doorstep in this
00:25:07.020 neighboring town of Bomar. Their proof? They said they had footage from a flock surveillance camera
00:25:13.320 showing her car, which was a green Rivian, driving through the town of Bomar from 11.52 a.m. to 12.09
00:25:21.180 p.m. on the day of the theft. So she says that police were super weird with her about it. They
00:25:26.460 told her, quote, you know, we have cameras in that town. You can't get a breath of fresh air
00:25:31.540 in or out of that place without us knowing. Just as an example, we know that you've driven there
00:25:36.320 about 20 times in the last month, which is a pretty weird thing. If a cop came to my house
00:25:43.320 and was saying that to me, I'd be pretty freaked out. Yeah, I wouldn't care for that at all,
00:25:49.020 that the police are just like aware of everything I've been doing for the past months. Wouldn't like
00:25:54.960 it i also would not like it the police also told her that they had seen ring a camera footage that
00:26:01.600 showed her taking this package from the porch she was like that's not me that did not happen i did
00:26:08.300 not do that the police told her i guess this is a shock to you but i'm telling you this is a lock
00:26:13.860 100 no doubt so she was like i know that i did not do this she asked the police to see this ring
00:26:20.920 camera footage that they said was 100% her. They had her dead to rights taking this package,
00:26:26.040 and they refused to show her this footage. So Christiana drives a Rivian, and I guess Rivians 0.98
00:26:32.880 have a camera in the dash, which captured footage, again, proving that she had not driven to where
00:26:38.660 this crime had happened. When she told police, like, hey, I actually have a camera in my car.
00:26:44.540 I can show you that I drove to this town and didn't make any, you know, stops at anybody's
00:26:49.980 house to steal a package, they were like, it doesn't matter. They gave her the summons.
00:26:54.260 Christiana says that she works in finance, so understandably was not thrilled about having her
00:26:59.860 name associated with a theft. I bet not. Makes sense. Yeah, probably is not really helpful in
00:27:08.100 that field. So Christiana said, I'm going to fight surveillance with surveillance. So she and her
00:27:14.660 husband essentially compiled a master file with any kind of information about her whereabouts
00:27:20.600 from her phone, right? She had snapshots from her Google timeline, a tool on her phone that can track
00:27:26.060 each stop that she makes, statements from people that she interacted with that day, the works.
00:27:30.960 She took a picture of the outfit that she wore, which was a light pink top and black pants and
00:27:35.100 an olive green fleece with a note that she took off her sweater because it's harder to get warm
00:27:39.120 outside, that ring camera footage that the police said showed her definitively stealing
00:27:44.840 that package, well, somehow she was able to track down that footage using Nextdoor.
00:27:50.620 And that footage does show a person coming up to a porch and taking a package and running
00:27:55.220 away, but it doesn't show them getting into a car that looks anything like hers.
00:28:00.080 And so basically, she had actually gone to this town where the theft happened, but she
00:28:06.860 had legitimate business there with a tailor that was more than a quarter mile from the house where
00:28:12.260 this package was stolen. So she collected all this surveillance footage, footage of her entering the
00:28:18.920 tailor's office and then leaving the tailor's office. She got footage of her driving her car
00:28:23.980 from the Rivian that shows that she basically drove from her house to this tailor and back 0.85
00:28:29.720 without any additional stops. She compiled all of this evidence at her own expense and effort
00:28:35.020 and sent it to the police.
00:28:37.420 Eventually, the chief of police responded
00:28:39.800 and congratulated her on her detective work
00:28:42.960 and announced that the police
00:28:44.680 were going to be dismissing the charges against her.
00:28:47.760 In the email, they wrote,
00:28:48.900 after reviewing the evidence you provided,
00:28:51.920 parentheses, nicely done, BT-dubs,
00:28:55.260 we have voided the summons we issued. 0.85
00:28:58.380 So it's great that they dropped
00:29:01.580 this bogus charge against her,
00:29:03.580 But she was like, did the police just use flock to see that I happened to drive to the same town where somebody happened to have had a package stolen and decided that because I was in that town that I did it?
00:29:16.460 It does raise questions like that police officer who came to her house who said 100 percent, it's a lock.
00:29:25.200 Clearly, it wasn't like what made him think that was it really just that that flock said that she was in the town?
00:29:32.640 So curious, and I guess we'll probably never know.
00:29:36.400 Well, the Colorado Sun asked the police about this.
00:29:39.420 They were like, basically, what happened here?
00:29:42.440 The Chief of Police told the Colorado Sun that Block used his cameras to identify stolen vehicles, stolen license plates, any wanted subjects that enter town, or follow up investigations.
00:29:52.320 Quote, we can't see people inside the car.
00:29:54.800 We follow up investigations.
00:29:56.100 If we have a crime, we'll go back and look at the cameras and see who is in town at the time of the crime.
00:30:02.640 So it does kind of just sound like this is a tool that police are relying on to be like, oh, who was in town when this crime happened?
00:30:11.380 And it just doesn't sound like more surveillance in this instance is actually leading to crimes being solved.
00:30:18.900 I think, if anything, it is leading police to say, oh, this person was here. It was probably them.
00:30:24.040 This is something that we see pretty often that people really have like an outsized level of confidence in results that they get from a computer, like this belief that if a software system says something, that it has to be true.
00:30:41.060 And I wonder if that's what's going on here, that they just have way too much faith and confidence in Flock to be tracking every single person who's coming and going into that town to the detriment of reasonable skepticism that maybe there's more to the story than the one person whose car was driving through their little town.
00:31:09.380 Yes. And I would take that further and say that I think it is with intention. I think that when power systems, when the state uses computer systems and technology systems like Block, it absolves them of having to do any investigative work or the accountability of being wrong.
00:31:28.500 because you can just say, oh, well, it was the computer.
00:31:31.400 Like we were just looking at the AI.
00:31:33.040 The AI is never wrong.
00:31:34.320 The AI told us that you were responsible
00:31:36.260 and we were just following up on that.
00:31:38.080 And so they don't have to have any accountability.
00:31:40.720 I mean, Christiana says she never received
00:31:42.820 any kind of explanation from anybody
00:31:45.000 at the police department or even an apology.
00:31:47.840 And it just, I know I've said this before,
00:31:49.640 but it reminds me of that IBM page from like the 70s.
00:31:53.720 A computer can never be held accountable.
00:31:55.480 Therefore, a computer must never make a management decision. 0.97
00:31:57.620 I think that the police are with intention outsourcing this kind of police work to technology and surveillance tools like block precisely because it means that they do not have to be held accountable as the human police when they fuck up as bad as this. 0.59
00:32:14.500 Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. It's a way it's like a backdoor way to reduce their own accountability. The weird thing about it is, though, that like it's not like that accountability then gets transferred to the software company and just kind of evaporates into the air. And there is no accountability.
00:32:34.260 She didn't even get an apology. I mean, we'll put the piece in the show notes, obviously, but she describes sleepless nights and wondering if her finance job was going to be coming to an end because of this accusation, this completely unfounded accusation.
00:32:52.920 And they did not even give her an apology.
00:32:54.920 Let me tell you something.
00:32:56.280 I would need an apology to move on from this.
00:32:58.780 If this had happened to me, that would be the very least of the things I would need.
00:33:02.120 I would need a clear apology from somebody.
00:33:05.880 Yeah, I would be pretty mad. 1.00
00:33:08.460 And it also sounds like she really had to do the work to prove herself innocent here.
00:33:16.420 And that's not how it's supposed to work.
00:33:19.900 Absolutely.
00:33:20.340 You know, she said that she basically had to exonerate herself.
00:33:23.860 And my question is, what would have happened if Christiana was not the kind of person who was able to spend so much time and her own expense compiling so much proof to illustrate that she was innocent?
00:33:35.540 Like, I'm happy that she beat these charges, but she only did that through out surveilling the surveillance.
00:33:41.620 And I think if we're at the point where you need a tailor's receipt and your own car's dash cam footage and all of this just to prove that you didn't steal a package worth less than $25, maybe this level of surveillance is not actually keeping anybody safer or deterring crime.
00:33:58.100 Maybe this is not actually the future that we want.
00:34:00.500 And meanwhile, there's still somebody out there stealing packages.
00:34:04.080 The real package thief is still out there, people.
00:34:06.500 Okay, so speaking of accountability, we were talking before we got on the mic about this new law in China regulating influencers.
00:34:15.580 So there's this new law where if influencers or contact creators want to make content online about specific regulated topics, they will need to provide some kind of education or training in those areas.
00:34:26.960 So this new law requires social media influencers to hold verified qualifications before discussing medicine, law, education, or finance, and it's aimed at curbing misinformation.
00:34:39.720 How will this be regulated?
00:34:41.320 Well, it'll be up to platforms like the Chinese version of TikTok, which is Douyin or Weibo, and beliebly, to verify content creators' credentials before allowing that content to be posted.
00:34:54.580 Content creators, if they want to talk about these specific regulated topics, they will
00:34:59.120 need credentials like degrees, certifications, or professional license in those topics.
00:35:05.020 It's actually a pretty wide-ranging set of new laws.
00:35:08.520 The Cyberspace Administration of China, which is the Chinese government agency responsible
00:35:12.600 for regulating and overseeing the country's internet, online content, and data security,
00:35:16.680 has also implemented some new regulations on social media advertising and promotions.
00:35:20.500 Under these new laws, any campaign for medical products, supplements, and health foods will now be prohibited unless it is clearly defined as such to prevent misleading content disguised as educational material.
00:35:34.320 So basically you can't just say, oh, this is just educational information and actually it is a campaign for a medical supplement that I want you to buy.
00:35:43.700 Influencers will also have to disclose sources for studies or note when content is AI generated under this new legislation.
00:35:52.320 How are you feeling about this?
00:35:54.500 You and I had a meaty conversation about it off mic.
00:35:58.640 I don't know how into it you want to get, but how are we feeling?
00:36:02.780 Conflicted. Very conflicted.
00:36:05.140 You know, it's obviously scary to be like regulating speech, but also what we're doing in this country is like not working at all right now.
00:36:19.540 Like the Internet is just filled with medical misinformation, which I, you know, know a little bit of something about enough to be like, yeah, this is a really bad day of affairs.
00:36:33.420 I can only imagine, like, what were the other areas, legal, education, and finance information.
00:36:40.720 I can only imagine that there's, it's equally bad in those domains as well.
00:36:46.260 So there's, and it's not just that there's some bad information out there, but, like, our social media platforms are designed to amplify and spread and replicate that misinformation.
00:37:01.500 So, like, it's very bad. And I'm open to ideas about, like, trying to rein that in in some way. And so there's something appealing about some laws to rein it in. And I kind of think that, like, in this country, we do need some laws to rein that in.
00:37:22.740 But it's also pretty scary because if you think about the administration in charge right now, what would it look like for them to have the final say in what kind of medical information is allowed to be shared and not, right?
00:37:36.420 Like they're spewing misinformation from the White House, from the head of HHS.
00:37:42.600 So I don't know.
00:37:46.880 What do you think about it?
00:37:48.180 You really said it. I mean, on the one hand, I want to be clear that I'm skeptical about this because it feels like censorship to me. And also part of it's a real love hate thing that I have with social media is that the democratization of media where having a platform or having a voice is not gatekept like it is in traditional media.
00:38:10.040 that is something that i love it is it is what has driven me to being a podcaster but it also
00:38:16.140 i kind of hate it because that means anybody can just get a microphone and a ring light and just
00:38:21.840 say whatever they want and yeah so i i want to be clear that i'm skeptical of this but like you
00:38:27.660 obviously what we the system that we have the united states is not working um what's funny to
00:38:34.540 me is so rfk jr the head of hhs he has a law degree he doesn't have any kind of medical degree
00:38:42.480 would he not it would he not be able to make content or you know commentary about health
00:38:50.680 advice or medical advice if this law were in the united states because he only has a law degree
00:38:54.960 and not any kind of medical expertise i mean we know how much these guys care about laws
00:38:59.780 you wouldn't stop him if it were a sane society he would not be making comments about health stuff
00:39:10.380 and even if he was if we were a sane society people wouldn't be listening to him we wouldn't
00:39:16.280 be amplifying him as dc residents the day that he swam in rock creek nobody would if you if you 0.77
00:39:25.700 live in the mid-atlantic you know this homie just took a swim in poop yeah he just took a swim in
00:39:33.000 poop like and he had his kids out there doing it i love rock creek i i go hiking along it like
00:39:39.040 multiple times every single week uh i would not swim in it like when it rains it smells like poop
00:39:46.160 because a lot of the sewers just like wash right in there that's just like how it is with combined
00:39:50.840 sewers in an old urban city like this like uh it's it's not a good place for for people to swim
00:39:58.840 and i'm not even sure it's safe for dogs to swim in no it's not because they drink it and you know
00:40:04.640 the annoying thing is that he when he did that after he like took his little splash around in
00:40:10.920 rock creek and uh ostensibly he said he was fine we don't know what was going on in the bathrooms
00:40:17.180 at home but like he says he was fine
00:40:19.080 and holds that up as like evidence
00:40:21.120 that it's an okay thing for him to
00:40:23.180 do but it's not just about him
00:40:25.000 this is like one of the most frustrating
00:40:27.100 things about him is that he is
00:40:29.380 like the leader of
00:40:31.420 health and human services
00:40:33.300 like people look to him
00:40:35.480 as a
00:40:37.260 role model even though they shouldn't
00:40:39.240 but like he has a responsibility
00:40:41.120 to act
00:40:43.080 in a way that
00:40:44.700 keeps people in general safe whether or not he himself like got lucky rolling the dice
00:40:52.480 that's not the point of public health yes i remember him saying oh well nobody should take 0.97
00:40:58.880 health advice or medical advice for me on the one hand fucking duh on the other hand 0.92
00:41:04.760 what are you doing leading hhs like you know yeah like i'm sorry to tell you people are going to be 0.97
00:41:10.780 taking cues from you that's yeah so the reason that i wanted to talk about this new law in china
00:41:16.920 is not to advocate for it because i am skeptical of it but i just did have a moment where i thought
00:41:22.960 boy what would it look like if we had something like this in the united states setting aside the
00:41:27.440 point that you made which is a good one which is why i'm a little bit iffy around a lot of
00:41:32.500 legislation around cracking down on this kind of thing legislatively because under a hostile
00:41:37.360 administration like this one i would not want this administration being the ones you know
00:41:41.720 in charge of anything you get it yeah you get what i'm trying to say yeah however i putting
00:41:50.400 that aside i still can't help but like speculate like what would our internet landscape look like
00:41:55.720 if you needed a degree to talk about these things and they are things that i mean listen i i have
00:42:01.380 been trying to get my finances together lately. And the amount of bad financial advice that is
00:42:07.980 out there from people who don't know what they're talking about. Financial advice, generally good
00:42:13.800 advice is like pretty standard and humdrum and boring, you know, stuff like don't spend more than
00:42:19.740 you have. But there are so many people out there who are peddling the worst financial advice you've
00:42:26.540 ever heard in your life. And come to find out a lot of these people don't even have any kind of
00:42:30.840 credentials to be giving the public financial advice. And so if we had this kind of law in the
00:42:37.320 United States, I mean, you would have no more finance bros saying things like stop buying
00:42:41.620 avocado toast and then you can afford a house when they A, have no financial credentials to
00:42:45.880 be telling anybody how to run their finances and B, are being like bankrolled by their parents.
00:42:51.420 No more wellness coaches selling $400 moon water or any kind of like weird supplements.
00:42:58.300 I just think that if this kind of law came to the United States, think about all of the loud, big voices that would just vanish overnight.
00:43:07.020 Yeah, if you couldn't just say lies for profit, it's hard not to be a little attracted to that.
00:43:16.160 That's what I'm saying.
00:43:17.260 Like, again, I'm not saying that I am skeptical of this law.
00:43:23.060 But it is hard not to see this and be like, wow, we really have a problem in the United States and anybody can just build a massive platform saying anything and it's fine.
00:43:31.720 Yeah. And in this country, it seems like our political leaders and certainly the leaders of social media platforms have, like, embraced the chaos. They're like, this is what makes America strong is the ability to just, like, scream harmful lies and drown out anyone who's trying to say something reasonable.
00:43:53.960 Our president was out here doing crypto scams and nobody said boo. Like, this is a scam economy. That's all there is to it.
00:44:01.720 It's so true. So many scams. Like every day he does a dozen things that for any other administration would be an enormous scandal and they just like vanish into the media ether.
00:44:19.940 More after a quick break.
00:44:21.320 We'll be right back.
00:44:51.320 number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers
00:44:55.980 listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across
00:45:01.060 broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business? Think iHeart. Streaming, radio, and
00:45:06.480 podcasting. Call 844-844-iHeart to get started. That's 844-844-iHeart. If your bookshelf and your
00:45:14.280 for you page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society,
00:45:21.140 the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture
00:45:25.780 obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level
00:45:30.080 of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet,
00:45:35.640 and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm
00:45:40.520 obsessed. So obsessed. From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest
00:45:45.400 pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages
00:45:51.260 inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary
00:45:57.000 deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little
00:46:02.360 too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
00:46:09.120 or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:46:11.100 See you between the pages.
00:46:13.080 When I was 14 years old,
00:46:15.360 I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.
00:46:18.880 I survived, and I've spent my life exploring
00:46:21.580 how other people survive what should have destroyed them.
00:46:25.160 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.
00:46:28.820 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, 0.96
00:46:34.460 shut up, don't say anything.
00:46:37.120 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. 0.98
00:46:41.660 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.
00:46:46.220 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.
00:46:53.660 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:46:57.620 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.
00:47:01.060 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:47:04.200 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:47:18.840 Let's get right back into it.
00:47:23.260 So I wanted to briefly talk about this new research from the Institute for Strategic Dialogue, or ISD,
00:47:30.160 who, full disclosure, I used to do a bunch of partnership work with.
00:47:34.200 They just put out a fascinating new study that really sheds some light into how the ecosystem of non-consensual deepfake material works online.
00:47:44.020 Basically, tools to make and distribute this kind of material are all over social media.
00:47:50.480 ISD analyzed web traffic to 31 websites that provide deepfake tools and found that those sites got a combined 21 million visits a month, with the most popular sites getting over 3 million visits in one month.
00:48:04.380 As of May, ISD's analysis found 31 active deepfake tools that were easily discoverable on X, 4chan, and common search engines.
00:48:14.160 These tools can create realistic, explicit deepfics from a single photo, and we already know what that means. People who are targeted with this kind of thing, there's a potential for social exclusion, job discrimination, and debilitating emotional stress for the victims targeted, especially people in public positions.
00:48:33.080 I've often said this, this is not just about, you know, naughty pictures. It's horrifying. But in my book, it is definitely a democracy issue, right? If the people who are targeted for this kind of thing are overwhelmingly women, those women, especially women in public positions or elected officials and things like that, it is going to keep women who are targeted from running for those positions and taking a more public role in civic participation.
00:49:00.800 And it's going to keep us all from the representative democracy that we deserve. So it's not just an issue of gross, creepy pictures, which it is. It is a democracy issue that we should all be concerned about.
00:49:13.480 Yes. And I think that's a really good point to make, you know, after the the segment that we just talked about, about regulating speech about health online as a democracy issue, because it's democracy is complicated and it doesn't just mean anybody can say anything they want as like the be all end all virtue of what it means to be a democracy.
00:49:42.920 Like you just said, the ability of women to run for office and just, like, show up online and exist and to be able to do that in a way where they aren't being harassed and subject to, like, nudify apps and things, that's also a democracy issue, right?
00:50:04.580 I think there's a lot to balance there, and it's, I think online, like so many things, the conversation gets immediately taken to the extreme of, like, really fetishizing one aspect of democracy and leaving out that aspect that you mentioned of, like, in some cases, there does, you know, every single person can't act with complete freedom all the time.
00:50:34.580 if that means that it's going to restrict the ability
00:50:38.480 of a whole class of people to participate in society.
00:50:44.360 Exactly, very well put.
00:50:47.260 So you might think that these Nudify apps are hard to find,
00:50:51.640 that they're like on the dark web or something,
00:50:53.840 but according to this research,
00:50:56.380 it is very simple to find tools like Nudify apps online.
00:51:00.980 According to the authors,
00:51:01.880 searches on Google, Yahoo, and Bing for terms like Nudify, Undress App, or Deep Nude usually
00:51:08.540 returned at least one of these tools within the first 20 results. Last year, 404 Media also
00:51:15.100 noticed that Google was showing ads for some of these apps. Bing in particular made these tools
00:51:20.600 especially easy to find, with the top results for all three of these searches being Nudify tools.
00:51:26.120 These findings focused on organic search results, not paid ads. The researchers also found that
00:51:31.880 X was a major platform for spreading these tools.
00:51:35.500 Does this shock you, Mike?
00:51:37.080 It does not, no.
00:51:38.780 I mean, what would surprise me is if Grok itself refused to just do this for somebody.
00:51:46.100 That would be surprising.
00:51:46.980 You could just ask Grok.
00:51:47.720 You could just put a picture of anybody and ask Grok, like, undress this person, and they'll put him in a bikini.
00:51:53.540 So out of almost half a million mentions between June 2020 and July 2025, more than 70%, nearly 290,000 of the results of these things were on X.
00:52:05.140 Much of this activity appeared to come from bots, identified by repetitive usernames, identical post files, and similar profile pictures.
00:52:12.640 So even though a lot of this seemed to be automated,
00:52:15.900 the volume of it is still pretty concerning
00:52:17.860 because it is likely drawing new users to tools
00:52:20.700 that can be used illegally in certain situations.
00:52:24.540 This is absolutely horrifying.
00:52:26.160 According to this research, in early 2023,
00:52:28.920 there was a notable surge in mentions of these tools on Tumblr
00:52:32.820 after a woman shared her experience of being sexually harassed
00:52:37.080 using nudify and deepfake tools.
00:52:39.480 As many victims of malicious deepfakes have repeatedly pointed out, speaking about this kind of personal harassment or even calling out the harassment of others just comes with the risk of attracting further attention and thus attracting additional abuse.
00:52:54.520 And I guess that's what really infuriates me and simultaneously breaks my heart about this is that whenever I research an incident, like an incident in a school involving minor boys using these tools to make and distribute images of the minor girls in their class,
00:53:12.700 something i see again and again as the boys saying some iteration or something along the lines of
00:53:19.840 well this can't be illegal or this can't be wrong because it's so easy to find online if this was
00:53:24.980 illegal i wouldn't be able to just google or use a mainstream social media platform to find this
00:53:31.500 thing so easily kind of assuming just because it's so easily available it's probably legal and
00:53:36.620 fine to be using and i can see why they would think that because in some ways they are absolutely
00:53:42.280 correct right that fact that platforms like x allow this stuff is essentially a kind of implicit
00:53:48.240 endorsement but i think it just shows how much we have failed our youth because when this kind of
00:53:56.060 harm is so easy to find online after a while they're right it does kind of look like permission
00:54:02.440 yeah that's a really good point when it's that available it it looks like permission you know
00:54:10.660 But it is like an implicit, either an implicit wink and a nod or even just an explicit thumbs up to go ahead and use it.
00:54:21.520 You know, the availability of something harmful like this.
00:54:27.680 I guess I'm like really stuck on this, like balancing different competing aspects of democracy thing.
00:54:34.400 But like there are things that these platforms could rein this in, right?
00:54:38.940 They could deprioritize these results, make these tools harder for people to find, and so it wouldn't be bad, like passing a law to ban them, but these platforms, if they really cared, could take steps to limit the availability, which would have huge harm reduction benefits, and yet they don't.
00:55:04.780 You know, just because something is legal doesn't mean that it should be just pushed to every kid who types a search term for it into whatever platform they're using, probably X.
00:55:19.620 Well, it goes back to my question, and I mean this in a meaningful way.
00:55:23.620 This is above my pay grade.
00:55:25.280 I am not smart enough to be the definitive voice on this.
00:55:27.700 But at what point is this platform materially benefiting from an illegal enterprise?
00:55:33.240 If it is illegal to use some of these nudify apps and these apps are easily findable on platforms and in some cases advertised on these platforms, at what point is it, oh, you are making money from an illegal enterprise that is disproportionately harming girls, children?
00:55:49.140 that's right and another thing that they mentioned in that study was that uh there were a lot of ads
00:55:56.140 being taken out on these platforms uh using the using the names of these particular tools what
00:56:04.640 was interesting was that the it sounded like in a lot of cases the nudify tools themselves were
00:56:10.680 not buying ads but when the tools got taken down uh through some sort of action or for whatever
00:56:18.360 reason and so the tool no longer existed but people were still searching for it other companies
00:56:24.300 would pay would bid on those search terms when they would buy their ads on you know meta or x
00:56:31.300 or wherever and so there's a great example of just money flowing directly to these platforms
00:56:38.660 to keep these tools in the zeitgeist in circulation um yeah you raise a great point
00:56:47.500 Like, shouldn't they have some accountability for making money off of these tools that in a lot of cases can be, like, very harmful?
00:56:56.600 I mean, Christiana had the cops show up to her doorstep for supposedly stealing a package that they said was worth less than $25.
00:57:04.880 At what point are the cops going to show up at Elon Musk's doorstep for this?
00:57:09.280 Yeah, that is another good question, Bridget.
00:57:11.060 we we better move on to the next segment before we start going out a full-on revolution
00:57:17.920 you know who i want on my side of that revolution will smith well you're gonna get bob ferguson
00:57:26.580 he just needs to charge his phone yeah he just needs to charge his phone
00:57:32.360 gotta make a call do you do you want to say what our halloween costumes are gonna be
00:57:37.780 oh yeah happily i i am i i am bob ferguson from the movie uh one battle after another
00:57:45.700 uh leo's character it's uh i put together what i think is a pretty pretty good costume
00:57:53.440 and uh i've just been like wearing it around every time i've gone out for the past week
00:57:58.620 um a few people get it and they really like it yeah a few people what's funny is that i i know
00:58:06.520 you so well you are
00:58:08.660 Bob Ferguson for Halloween
00:58:10.240 and you are also kind of Bob Ferguson
00:58:12.780 in real life like I'll
00:58:14.620 let the listeners speculate on what I mean by that
00:58:16.540 but you have a lot in
00:58:18.500 common with him and when I saw
00:58:20.480 the movie I thought
00:58:22.340 this is Mike you are
00:58:24.400 very similar to Bob Ferguson I don't
00:58:26.540 mean this as an insult I'm sure you
00:58:28.480 know that no I take it well
00:58:30.620 to be clear there are also
00:58:32.200 several key differences
00:58:33.620 but I
00:58:36.520 Yeah, it fits. The costume fits.
00:58:38.540 The funny thing about it, though, is like if people don't recognize it from the movie,
00:58:41.880 you know, it got like a big oversized flannel robe and like a hat and those like big dark sunglasses that people can wear over their regular glasses.
00:58:52.600 If people don't recognize the costume, I just look like a bum.
00:58:55.920 Which again, no offense, but like, I don't know how to finish the sentence without sounding offensive, but you know what I'm getting at here.
00:59:05.960 I think I do. I mean, generally in my life, people aren't mistaking me for a bum all that often. I guess it comes up. How about you? What are you going to be for Halloween?
00:59:19.820 Blade. Blade from the movie Blade, the titular, titular Blade from the movie Blade, which we, you and I rewatched recently, holds up very well, I thought.
00:59:31.020 Yeah, it moves along. It's action packed. He barely speaks. But when he does, he's got some good lines. He kind of talks like this. I've been working on my blade voice. He has a very low voice, but he doesn't really say a lot. But it's a lot of cool one liners delivered like this.
00:59:51.860 Yeah, the cool one liners. That's that's that's what I want in an action hero. Blade, Spider-Man. Who else? A lot of them have good one liners like that. You don't want long soliloquies. You just want a quick little one liner and then maybe some perching.
01:00:12.860 I'm worried that people are just going to think I'm goth.
01:00:15.520 They're not going to know that I'm Blade from the movie Blade.
01:00:19.080 They're going to just think I'm... 0.67
01:00:20.680 Is this an old goth, an old black goth?
01:00:25.420 Well, I think that Katana will probably help them figure it out.
01:00:29.060 An old black goth martial arts enthusiast just hanging out on Halloween? 0.91
01:00:34.100 Okay, wait, so I have one more thing.
01:00:36.960 It's actually kind of a cool story, I think.
01:00:39.220 Can you give me one more thing?
01:00:41.160 Yeah, please.
01:00:41.800 I mean, it's been just one bad story after another.
01:00:46.560 So if you've got something good, let's hear it.
01:00:48.960 Good one.
01:00:49.240 Good one.
01:00:50.160 And it involves Goodreads.
01:00:52.180 So that was a good segue.
01:00:53.640 So I love this story so much.
01:00:55.440 Shout out to 404 again for another banger. 0.68
01:00:58.560 So this rogue librarian on Goodreads is editing book titles to protest Goodreads censorship.
01:01:05.920 According to 404, one of the site's volunteer moderators, which Goodreads calls librarians, swapped the blurbs and pictures and titles of a handful of books, books like Reese Witherspoon's thriller Gone Before Goodbye, which I did not even know Reese Witherspoon, the actress, is now writing thrillers.
01:01:25.220 Love a Thriller. Need to check that out. And the Nicholas Sparks bestseller, Remain. They are
01:01:30.460 swapping out all of the information and blurbs of those books with the pictures and blurbs from
01:01:37.020 Eric Trump's book, Under Siege, adding the subtitle, quote, Goodreads censorship in favor
01:01:44.560 of Trump. So I did not even know that Eric Trump had written a book. I don't even need to look it
01:01:49.600 up. Guarantee that thing was ghostwritten for sure. Basically, they are altering all of these
01:01:54.720 books and swapping in Eric Trump's book, explaining that Goodreads is removing criticism
01:02:01.420 of Eric Trump's book from the site, saying, quote, silencing criticism of political figures,
01:02:07.140 especially those associated with authoritarian movements, helps normalize and strengthen those
01:02:12.480 movements. When we let powerful people's books be protected from criticism, we give up the right to
01:02:19.320 hold power accountable these changes were up on goodreads for a few hours before being corrected
01:02:25.420 so that that librarian is absolutely correct that is uh the story in as far as i can tell
01:02:35.700 every democracy that has slidden into authoritarianism that's how it happens just
01:02:42.180 Like people dialing back criticism of the people in power, self-censoring, and just letting them get away with it.
01:02:54.380 So good on this librarian.
01:02:56.240 Absolutely.
01:02:57.080 So this librarian, this rogue librarian who is protesting Goodreads, which is owned by Amazon, says that Goodreads is censoring negative reviews of Eric Trump's book.
01:03:06.460 They said that Goodreads deleted negative reviews of Under Siege as they came in after its publication on October 14th.
01:03:13.360 These were honest opinions from real readers who disagreed with the book's content, the librarian said in their post.
01:03:19.360 When people noticed and complained, Goodreads deleted all reviews of the book, positive and negative alike.
01:03:25.920 This wasn't an accident or a one-time glitch. It was a deliberate pattern.
01:03:30.060 So 404 reached out to Goodreads to ask if the platform was disallowing these reviews.
01:03:34.880 And it does sound like Goodreads was trying to prevent review bombing of Eric Trump's book.
01:03:40.460 In response to the questions about the reviews for the book, a spokesperson from Goodreads told 404 Media that Goodreads has systems in place to detect unusual activity on book pages and may temporarily limit rating and reviews that don't adhere to our review and community guidelines.
01:03:56.940 In all cases, we enforce clear standards and remove content and or accounts that violate these guidelines.
01:04:02.700 So we did an episode about this, but review bombing is a legit problem on Goodreads.
01:04:08.180 But this is also the nature of the complaint, according to this rogue librarian.
01:04:12.660 They said, when a platform removes criticism of a political book while leaving praise or removes everything to hide that that criticism ever existed, they're not staying neutral.
01:04:22.720 They're picking a side.
01:04:24.340 Goodreads is owned by Amazon, one of the world's largest companies.
01:04:27.400 When major platforms decide which opinions can exist and which must disappear, they shape what people think is true or acceptable.
01:04:35.240 Honestly, I love everything about this story.
01:04:38.440 Hate everything about Eric Trump.
01:04:40.100 It sounds like people did not like his book.
01:04:42.100 It sounds like they read his book and legitimately took issue with it.
01:04:44.540 And so they were expressing that.
01:04:46.560 And I love that.
01:04:48.040 I also just love that it took a rogue Goodreads librarian volunteer to pull this off.
01:04:54.540 Like, not a whistleblower, not a hacker, just a super annoyed, pissed off, fed up volunteer.
01:05:02.920 It really reminds me of that Margaret Mead quote.
01:05:05.920 Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world.
01:05:10.100 Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.
01:05:12.640 In this case, never doubt that an annoyed, bookish volunteer can also change the world.
01:05:19.020 Yeah, and not just any volunteer, a librarian.
01:05:22.240 Yes. Shout out to the librarians. Sometimes it really does feel like they are the only thing standing between us and a complete descent into a fascist nightmare hellscape.
01:05:33.240 Absolutely. They are the keepers of knowledge during a time when knowledge is being questioned. Reality is being questioned. We live in different realities. Maybe librarians will be the ones to help us make sense of it and save us.
01:05:55.560 So, Bridget, today is Halloween. How are you going to be celebrating in your Blade costume?
01:06:02.220 Oh, I give out candy every year, even though I live in a building in a neighborhood where people might not associate giving out candy.
01:06:09.900 It is truly one of the things I love the most.
01:06:13.360 I love the kids in costumes.
01:06:15.580 I love being in costume.
01:06:17.500 Oh, I'll be giving out candy.
01:06:19.260 If you see Blade, come say hello, unless you're a vampire, in which case, watch out.
01:06:25.960 Ooh, scary words for the vampires.
01:06:28.640 well uh mike where can folks keep in touch with us on this sabuki season and beyond people will
01:06:36.600 can leave us a comment on spotify they can send us an email at hello at tangody.com we love getting
01:06:43.880 listener emails we uh people have been sending in some really interesting like thought-provoking
01:06:48.740 interesting ones lately so thank you for that please keep it up and we're uh we're gonna do
01:06:53.220 that mailbag episode real soon so please keep the emails coming uh people can check out bridget
01:06:58.520 socials. Her username is Bridget Marie in DC on both Instagram and TikTok. And we have a YouTube
01:07:07.020 channel that we just posted something today. The name of the channel is There Are No Girls
01:07:11.000 on the Internet. It's very easy to remember. Well, Mike, thank you so much for being here. 0.98
01:07:15.420 Happy Halloween. And thanks to all of you for listening. I hope you have a
01:07:19.620 spooky and safe Halloween. I will see you on the Internet.
01:07:28.520 Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi?
01:07:33.320 You can reach us at hello at tangody.com.
01:07:35.560 You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangody.com.
01:07:39.000 There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by me, Bridget Todd.
01:07:41.760 It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.
01:07:44.460 Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer.
01:07:46.520 Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer.
01:07:49.120 Michael Amato is our contributing producer.
01:07:51.120 I'm your host, Bridget Todd.
01:07:52.920 If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts.
01:07:56.000 For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:08:14.200 This is an iHeart Podcast.
01:08:17.080 Guaranteed human.