PC Gamer can’t name a woman; Is Marvel blaming Black women for bad box office performance？; New AI rules on YouTube; Nikki Haley wants you to use your real name online — NEWS ROUNDUP
00:04:37.580The program offers free or reduced-price phones and data plans and minutes for eligible, low-income individuals.
00:04:44.980So one thing to know about this, even though I do think it's a good step in the right direction and I'm celebrating this for sure, but one thing to know is that it really depends on what state you're in.
00:04:54.680Per public knowledge, these rules only allow for survivors to self-certify their status as a survivor of domestic violence to service providers if explicitly allowed by a state.
00:05:04.660public knowledge is calling upon every state to follow the examples set by New York
00:05:08.440and stand with the survivors of domestic violence by acting to swiftly enable self-certification.
00:05:13.880Yeah, that's really great to hear, honestly.
00:05:16.600I feel like, at least for me, thinking about cell phones and cell phone usage is one of those things
00:05:24.020that's a little bit of a blind spot for me sometimes.
00:05:26.580It is something that is so ingrained into everything that we do and to how we communicate with people.
00:05:32.520and it's like I don't know I like I don't I don't think about my own phone plan that much like I'll
00:05:37.620be honest like I'm still on my family's plan and like I'm lucky where I have like you know a good
00:05:42.620situation with my family where I can stay on their phone plan but yeah it is such a it's so
00:05:48.000important to how we communicate and how we kind of find safety and it's it yeah it's really great
00:05:58.000to hear that there's at least seems to be the start of some sort of structure in place for
00:06:03.240survivors. Definitely. And to your point about not always thinking about your cell phone, do you
00:06:07.800remember last month when they did that test of the National Emergency Alert System where all the
00:06:12.980phones made a noise at the same time? They actually had to put out statements that were like, listen,
00:06:17.440if you're in a situation where you have a secret cell phone for your own safety because you're
00:06:22.240being abused or you're not in a safe situation, be sure to turn that phone off because that phone
00:06:27.520is going to emit a loud noise at this time in October. So yeah, just be aware. I think it can
00:06:34.000be, I agree that it can be difficult to remember cell phones and that folks in situations where
00:06:40.560they're not safe, for them, it is a critical lifeline. And I think it's just so important
00:06:44.520that we really have robust programs that take into effect the role that technology like cell
00:06:49.700phones really can play in survivors getting to safety. We need to continue to fund those programs.
00:06:54.640we need to make sure they're as robust as they can be because people need them their lives depend
00:07:00.060on it yeah yeah and i i get yeah i remember that like a month ago and yeah i'll be honest like i
00:07:07.600didn't even think about it until afterwards i was i think i saw something like on twitter talking
00:07:11.500about it and um like i don't know if you saw bridget but there was like i remember some
00:07:16.360headline that was going around that was about like amish communities and like people's phones
00:07:21.120going off in Amish communities and like getting outed for having phones but it was like it was
00:07:25.080so weird because that was going around as like like almost as kind of like a meme and then at
00:07:29.120the same time it was like yeah no there were people that were like actively put in danger
00:07:33.440because of something that seemed so routine and normal to so many of us like yeah no that's it's
00:07:40.640good to hear some good news for once I guess yeah I always have to pepper it a little good news
00:07:45.600sometimes the tech news can be so grim so you know I always say this on this show we got to
00:07:50.000take our Ws or we can get them. I am a big believer in like celebrating when it feels like
00:07:56.320some progress has been made. To that point, we have rolled out some new rules around AI. So
00:08:02.000YouTube just rolled out some new rules around AI-generated content on the platform. In a blog,
00:08:07.140YouTube said that creators that don't disclose whether they've used AI tools to make altered or
00:08:12.160synthetic videos will face penalties, including having their content removed or suspension from
00:08:16.980the platform's revenue sharing program. Two spokespeople from YouTube said, this is especially
00:08:22.240important in cases where the content discusses sensitive topics such as elections, ongoing
00:08:26.560conflicts, and public health crises or public officials. So yeah, that sounds great. But I will
00:08:32.720add that these are the same people who pretty recently, just back in June, said that election
00:08:38.340denialism is a-okay on their platform. They announced that they were going to stop taking
00:08:42.640down content that claims the 2020 election was stolen or rigged back in june so i guess girl i
00:08:49.880guess that's it that's what y'all are saying like fine and i guess it's one of those things where
00:08:55.180it's like it is hard for me to take them seriously at their word when yeah on one hand they're they're
00:09:03.520saying election denialism is okay on the platform but they're also when it comes to ai saying like
00:09:08.960oh, well, it's important that you disclose that you've used AI when you're talking about something
00:09:15.380sensitive, like an election or a public official. Which one is it, right? Like, it seems like those
00:09:20.480are two different lanes you're in, but whatever. So last week, Facebook also announced a new rule
00:09:26.800stipulating that political campaigns advertising on Facebook would have to disclose when they used
00:09:31.640ai in political or social issue ads to synthetically depict people or events that seems concerning
00:09:39.000that they're letting i mean i guess it's hard to just be like you can't do that at all but i don't
00:09:44.660know i personally don't think that if you're running for office you should be using like
00:09:50.760ai content at all like if you can't get real people to talk for you maybe you should not be
00:09:58.200running for office. I would agree, Joey. I completely agree. I mean, like, and this is
00:10:04.160not even like a, it's not like we're talking about like a far away reality. A pro Ron DeSantis PAC
00:10:09.080already used an AI generated version of Trump's voice in a campaign ad. So yeah, it's, I agree.
00:10:16.720I think that I, if I were making the rules, I would say that no campaign should be able to use
00:10:21.940AI generated deep fakes or voice deep fakes. The Facebook rule does include carve outs for if the
00:10:28.180AI is used for like a small cosmetic thing, right? Like you used AI to clean up a photo or to crop a
00:10:34.400photo a certain way. They do allow carve outs for that. But I agree with you. I think that like
00:10:39.940allowing that, I don't know how, I don't think that's great. And I think that it really signals
00:10:46.600like where we're at on the issue of AI as it pertains to election misinformation. A recent
00:10:53.020report from the Center for Technology Innovation found that we're really not prepared for the
00:10:57.980wave of disinformation and misinformation that is AI generated. Darrell West, a senior fellow at the
00:11:04.820Center for Technology Innovation, said, there's going to be a tsunami of disinformation in the
00:11:08.740upcoming election. Basically, anybody can use AI to create fake videos and audio tapes, and it's
00:11:14.100going to be almost impossible to distinguish the real from the fake. So it's scary, and it's real,
00:11:19.560and it's happening. And we do a lot of talking and hand-wringing. And I will say that we have,
00:11:24.840I am hopeful and believe that we have started to have conversations about it you know I think
00:11:32.960from where we were in conversations about AI today back from like a couple of months ago I
00:11:39.840think that gone are the conversations that are like just all hype like this is gonna be so great
00:11:45.420people are gonna make so much money like this is gonna be so exciting it's gonna change everything
00:11:49.600I think that we are maybe done with that hype cycle that just posits that AI is this new, shiny piece of digital magic that we all should be really excited about, like a parlor trick.
00:12:02.780I think now we're in the part of the conversation where it's like, okay, well, how do we really need to be thinking about this in real world application?
00:12:09.540How is this actually going to impact us?
00:12:11.160So I am hopeful that the conversation has really turned to a place where people are concerned and want to start getting some guardrails in place before it's too late.
00:12:21.400Absolutely. Yeah, I know. You're totally right, though.
00:12:24.720I feel like I haven't all of the kind of various news cycle things that have come out about AI, like in the past month, like none of it's been positive.
00:12:33.480I don't think I've heard a single like positive AI story.
00:12:38.200um something i remember i know there was a story i listened to that was about like the issue of
00:12:44.040ownership of content and you know the fact that a lot of these uh ai technology that are out now
00:12:51.240they're relying on training models that are just sort of indiscriminately taking content from the
00:12:56.800internet and uh you know there's a lot of questions about copyright and who owns you know
00:13:02.680intellectual property all of that um and it was basically saying like if ai companies have to
00:13:09.380start like paying for this stuff if they need to start actually having regulations in place like
00:13:13.500they're not going to profit right which is like something that seems super obvious like you can't
00:13:17.900just steal stuff you actually like you're not going to make money if you're i don't know like
00:13:22.620yeah if your entire model is being able to like steal everything and then you're making money off0.73
00:13:27.640of it oh shit you're gonna make a ton of money and then if you were suddenly taking away the0.62
00:13:30.800ability to steal things you're not going to make as much money um but yeah no i think i i i want to0.99
00:13:37.980feel positive about this i do think that people like the the perception of ai and the limits of
00:13:44.360ai too and what it can be used for is starting to change and it's like good to see that we'll see if
00:13:49.760there's actually any sort of like consequences i guess to these companies that comes out of this
00:13:56.280because again like it does concern me that they're saying like you just have to label that it's using
00:14:00.520AI and it's still sort of allowing these campaigns to use AI and like you know they will if they if
00:14:05.940it is something that they think is going to help them they're going to use it and like you said
00:14:10.020the DeSantis campaign already has there have been a couple notable incidents within the past month
00:14:16.680of certain groups or people using AI generated images to try to you know construct an image of
00:14:25.800something happening that is not accurate or is not you know entirely factual uh we've already
00:14:31.600seen that happen every time it's happened they've gotten called out for it but at the same time it
00:14:37.120keeps happening and it definitely impacts how people see reality so yeah it's it's still
00:14:44.320concerned I'm still definitely concerned but I guess like it's good to see that like you know
00:14:50.360people speaking out about this and people fighting back and people trying to just sort of like
00:14:55.800preserve the ability to speak the truth in these sort of situations is at least going somewhere
00:15:02.020at least there seems to be some response to that yeah and you bring up another good point of
00:15:07.300it's interesting to me how platforms like Facebook YouTube Google they are like oh like
00:15:18.800we'll just label it like I don't know I think that now is a time for platforms to really
00:15:24.280like this this should be in my book this should be a come to jesus moment where platforms are
00:15:29.580like no but really how can we really keep this tsunami of misinformation at bay um i think that
00:15:37.000if platforms are allowed to be the only forces setting the agenda i don't know how far we'll
00:15:43.040ever go right it's clear to me that we need some combination of platforms but then also
00:15:47.520government right like because platforms are never going to swing big if they're grading their own
00:15:52.480homework essentially and so yeah i i think now is the time for platforms to really make responsible
00:15:59.780policies i am not always very optimistic when we are when like the only thing standing between us
00:16:09.520and like a tsunami of misinformation is like whether or not mark zuckerberg is going to do
00:16:14.240the right thing or whether or not elon musk is going to do the right thing or the smart thing
00:16:17.620or whatever uh but you don't think that mark zuckerberg cares about the integrity of
00:16:24.980i whatever institute yeah no no i like it's so funny this came up in a conversation i had the
00:16:34.400other day about platforms that i think are just like garbage i don't think that facebook is like
00:16:41.240redeemable i think that like they're like google you know i have my issues with google but they do
00:16:47.160provide services like oh it's the most used search engine in the world i get it like they're they're
00:16:53.080actually doing things facebook i would argue doesn't actually produce a product that like
00:16:58.320actually makes anybody's lives meaningfully better they only produce like chaos and darkness
00:17:04.120at the very best you're gonna get it's like an update from some girl you went to high school
00:17:09.080with or something like they're not like they're not providing a good service so like yeah i
00:17:13.540increasingly think that facebook if they truly wanted to do their part to create a more robust
00:17:21.080digital landscape they would shut down totally agree um i do think it is really interesting that
00:17:27.520there was a while where facebook mark zuckerberg was able to convince us that facebook was this
00:17:34.480like super vital platform and i mean whatever there's a larger conversation about social media
00:17:39.040and like the role that social media has played in the past couple like two decades um but yeah
00:17:43.480like Facebook I'm sorry I've seen the social network I know Facebook started as a way for
00:17:49.660Mark Zuckerberg to like meet girls like I don't yes there was no they without there was no way
00:17:57.600that was gonna end up as like that was going to end well for humanity and um unfortunately we're
00:18:03.540seeing the extreme version of how you know that's kind of played out but it's like it never started
00:18:10.000as this thing that was meant to be like for the good of humanity and it it's so clear now that
00:18:16.320it's only caused chaos and yeah and and i agree i think i am pro facebook shutting down i you know
00:18:24.640i will say i do still have an account up there somewhere i do not remember the last time i've
00:18:29.440open day it just doesn't have a purpose anymore other than just like creating chaos the thing
00:18:35.040that you said about the social network this is like a personal pet peeve of mine a couple of
00:18:40.000years ago mark zuckerberg i don't remember where you said this but he was like back when i created
00:18:45.340facebook it was during the invasion of iraq and i really wanted there to be a platform where people0.99
00:18:51.900could engage and robust debate about the issues and i was like shut the fuck up no you fucking0.99
00:18:57.020liar like we all saw the social network we all know that facebook started as a platform called1.00
00:19:02.900face smash it was all about raiding the quote dogs in his dorm that it's his word uh it was founded
00:19:10.040on toxicity and misogyny and i just i thought it was really funny how he this people really do
00:19:16.980think they're above reproach that he thought that he was going to be able to completely rewrite
00:19:20.880history as if he like could men in black flashy thing us all we'd all forget and we'd all be like
00:19:27.680oh yeah you know how the beginning of facebook was the iraq war award-winning movie i'm sorry
00:19:34.880once you've had jesse eisenberg play you like there's no going back you just you're
00:19:39.940which love him as an actor but like your image is ruined you can't
00:19:45.120that's yeah that's insane i the audacity fun fact i have seen every movie that jesse
00:19:53.000eisenberg has ever been in i love that i did a jesse eisenberg film deep dive where i was
00:19:59.020gonna pick one person and i was gonna watch their whole oeuvre i guess this was a couple
00:20:03.000years ago now so maybe i need to get back into it if there's any that have come out
00:20:07.780recently that i have missed but hell of an actor right that couldn't was born to play
00:20:11.900mark zuckerberg fantastic yeah yeah he's fantastic in that movie andrew garfield too
00:20:16.820oh yeah um i could still quote the whole gooshy flip-flops scene but um i love that that's so
00:20:26.080funny i god i need to watch more of his movies like last one i can think of is the bad um
00:20:33.000superman movie that he was in oh it's bad yeah i haven't seen it i don't plan on watching it but
00:22:51.180so in other election news former south carolina governor nikki haley announced and quickly
00:23:00.060walked back my least favorite social media policy that people float she promised that if she was
00:23:05.720elected social media companies would be required to authenticate people's identity before allowing
00:23:10.660them to comment so everything that you post on social media would be attached to your real
00:23:14.160government name and identity what could go wrong right that's horrible that's a horrible idea as
00:23:20.520somebody again as somebody who is a teenager on the internet too like I don't think I ever used
00:23:26.760my real name like my tumblr never had my real name attached to that I am grateful for the fact
00:23:31.120that I never had my real name attached to that like oh my god same like and also I was like when
00:23:36.680I was like first exploring the internet I guess I was a scene kid or an emo kid or whatever you
00:23:43.080want to say it so it was it was always like lowercase x uppercase x and then like maybe
00:23:49.240like a like an asterisk an asterisk and then like the name like it was always the wildest
00:23:54.740most cumbersome elaborate names and that was and that was how you showed up on social media
00:23:59.800back you know back in my day we were a proper country when we were a proper country when the
00:24:05.180scene kids ran exactly social media that was that was the peak oh my god there would be you would
00:24:10.920go to you would go to my i had my myspace all tricked out so that when you went to it first
00:24:15.060of all but definitely crash whatever browser you were using but it would be like falling stars and
00:24:19.780then like panic at the disco but then the button deposit will be hidden so you you had to listen
00:24:24.800like it was very important to me that you listen to this whole panic at the disco song while looking
00:24:29.360at my profile um that was such an era that was such an era i'm sure if i came across your myspace
00:24:35.720page i would have been like this person is so cool um i didn't say that 100 genuine that is
00:24:42.020not sarcasm that was like i always wanted to be one of those people that could like totally like
00:24:47.740redo like their tumblr or like coding and i'm terrible when it comes to like technology um
00:24:53.800ironically as i say on this tech podcast but um i can't like i do not know how to code anything
00:25:00.440but i always thought those were like the coolest blogs ever when you'd go to somebody's page and
00:25:04.720it was like um i was you know i the big thing when i was on tumblr was like doctor who and it
00:25:11.240was always like the little like button that looked like the TARDIS or yeah like how to get
00:25:16.440the disco playing that was so fun. That is how I learned how to code and actually there's an
00:25:22.400entire like generation of people that customizing profiles like MySpace is why they are coders now
00:25:29.120why they work in tech now like it really was a crash course expressing yourself online was like
00:25:34.060an early tech crash course for I think an entire generation of us. Oh yeah. Nikki Haley said we're
00:25:40.700going to say that they have to make sure that every person on social media is verified. Everybody
00:25:44.720gets a verified sign so we know exactly who they are, Haley said during a town hall with Iowa
00:25:50.220caucus goers. What that will do is eliminate every Russian bot, Iranian bot, and Chinese bot that's
00:25:56.260spreading all of this misinformation because it's the cheapest form of warfare for them. They're
00:26:01.100going to start to be more accountable because they know their family and their pastor is going to see
00:26:05.580it. It's going to get more civilized, Haley said. So none of this went over well. It didn't go
00:26:11.340over well with really anybody, right? Like folks on the right, folks on the left. DeSantis told
00:26:16.700conservative political commentator Glenn Beck that he thought that her plan would pave the way for
00:26:21.340a social credit system akin to one in China. So eventually Nikki Haley kind of dialed back her0.59
00:26:27.600remarks. On CNBC, she said that she thinks that life would be more civil if people were prohibited
00:26:32.280from posting anonymously, but that anonymous accounts would still be allowed for American
00:26:36.900citizens. She said, I don't mind anonymous American people having free speech. What I don't
00:26:41.880like is anonymous Russian or Chinese or Iranians having free speech. So you said the quiet part1.00
00:26:51.600out loud. No. If you're in Iran, you can just like you don't even deserve free speech.
00:27:02.280so here's my thing about this this idea that everybody needs to be verified with their real
00:27:07.740government name is not new trump floated it back when he was president even though
00:27:11.520he also had no problem boosting anonymous accounts that he agreed with but also at some point floated
00:27:18.860the idea that like there should be no anonymous accounts on social media it comes up all the time
00:27:23.360and it's one of those policies that maybe sounds good when you first hear it you're like oh yeah
00:27:28.740why not? But then when you actually think about it and think about the way the internet works,
00:27:33.480you start to realize truly what a dangerous disaster it would be if everything that you've
00:27:38.460ever said on the internet had to be associated with your first and last government name.
00:27:42.720And it would absolutely harm and silence and criminalize the most marginalized among us,
00:27:47.240people who are already harmed and criminalized and silenced on social media platforms or face
00:27:51.900harsh consequences for speaking up. Folks like whistleblowers, activists, survivors of violence,
00:27:57.200dissidents, sex workers, the list goes on and on. David Green, director of civil liberties at the
00:28:02.060Electronic Frontier Foundation, put it really well, saying, for these individuals and the
00:28:06.460organizations that support them, secure anonymity is critical. It may literally save lives. Anonymous
00:28:12.180communications have an important place in our political and social discourse. Yeah, I just think
00:28:17.380that if it wasn't for anonymous accounts online, we would never have things like the Me Too movement.
00:28:22.860We would probably never have things like filming police and posting it on social media.
00:28:26.120Think of all of the ways that anonymous accounts on social media have really pushed our social and political discourse farther. And I just think that, again, it might seem like the kind of thing that sounds like it would work when you first hear it, but it would absolutely harm people who are marginalized.
00:28:45.780yeah um i mean even going back to the story up at the top about the fcc and um you know talking
00:28:55.280about cell phones and survivors of domestic assault and or domestic abuse yeah social media
00:29:01.280has been another tool where people can talk anonymously about their experiences um you know
00:29:07.140like like you said there is a hypocrisy in that like he had trump was one of these people that
00:29:11.680floated this idea and the same time he's happy to uplift anonymous accounts when it serves his
00:29:17.740narrative but i think like especially from the right right now there's this weird like fixation
00:29:23.400on anonymity and the way that anonymity is used uh yeah oftentimes as a tool for political activism
00:29:32.220and for social movements but it's like at the same time it's just kind of a normal part of like
00:29:38.840online discourse um i mean just think about like how many like really big like twitter accounts
00:29:45.520that are like comedy accounts that are like totally anonymous like like drill like i i feel
00:29:53.080like it would break the whole like kind of character if i knew who that person was in real
00:29:59.660life like i don't want to know their name they're just this faceless like twitter account that i see
00:30:04.400that always puts out, like, weird things that are, like, kind of funny.
00:43:17.300And I think they are unfairly putting a lot of the blame on a lot of the women and people of color that have kind of, they've pseudo-elevated within these companies.
00:43:27.980But yeah, I'm sure we're going to get into that.
00:45:58.460My first problem is that it's not even true.
00:46:01.640A community note was added to that tweet saying that Nia DaCosta wrote and directed the crime
00:46:06.080thriller Little Woods back in 2018, winning the Nora Ephron Prize at the Tribeca Film
00:46:10.820Festival before directing Candyman and then directing Marvels.
00:46:14.040So that resume puts her squarely in line with previous MCU directors like John Watts, who had a very similar resume before directing their first Marvel film, right? And so that's one. Two is this idea that I absolutely cannot stand, which is like, oh, she only got what she got for being a Black woman. They don't give Black women anything. I can tell you that.
00:46:37.080So if you are a Black woman and you got something, you got somewhere, you got an honor, an accolade, you earned that shit, right?0.99
00:46:43.900Like, they're not just giving away – like, if you are in these rooms and getting these things, you got them because you earned them.0.99
00:47:35.180directors of marvel movies really had like super critically acclaimed stuff beforehand and the ones
00:47:42.980that did it usually was like specifically because they okay like um the russo brothers did like
00:47:50.580community before they did all the marvel which i love community it's a great show but it's like
00:47:55.380that's like a it's a sitcom it's not like an action movie and then they got this huge action
00:48:00.160movie deal and like the movies did well and they kept getting more movies because of that but it's
00:48:04.100like they started in the same place um yeah and i mean other like a lot of yeah a lot of their
00:48:13.300directors came from very like sort of smaller film backgrounds um before they did marvel movies
00:48:20.920like saying that oh it's this one person's like they were the exception no she wasn't like this
00:48:27.060this has just kind of been their their formula i also i have a whole theory about this i think the
00:48:32.820fact that like i kind of mentioned before i think disney is somewhat aware of the fact that people
00:48:40.360are losing interest in superhero movies you know it was a big trend and trends fall off and i think
00:48:46.880like people are always gonna love like spider-man and like you know the big ones like those are
00:48:51.120always gonna get big audiences but the mcu just doesn't have the same kind of like cultural power
00:48:56.140that it did like a couple years ago i think they know that i think the fact that all of a sudden
00:49:02.020they suddenly seem super interested in putting women and people of color and queer people in
00:49:06.560their movies um i think it's almost sort of like a weird like latch like like they're sort of using0.53
00:49:13.320it as a like great now we can just sort of like turn the blame on them like um the first one i
00:49:19.320can remember that was sort of like a big thing that it like didn't do very well and it was was
00:49:23.240was eternals which chloe dow directed who's a fantastic director and that also was a movie
00:49:28.900where they intentionally included a lot of actors of color um i think they changed one of the
00:49:34.380characters to be a woman instead of a man and they like included a queer couple and then the
00:49:40.240movie didn't do very well and i think it was very like the company didn't outright say anything but
00:49:45.300they were sort of like they they let the discourse go in the direction of like oh well it didn't it
00:49:49.080get same thing like it didn't do well because of wokeness like it gives them sort of a weird
00:49:52.680like it is sort it is really messed up that they're like kind of now positioning themselves
00:49:57.400and I think that kind of has what they've been doing for like the past year is when they've
00:50:00.420been positioning themselves as like we're putting out the marbles which is this movie with like all0.80
00:50:04.280of these women and it's directed by a woman of color but then they're not like they're not putting0.76
00:50:10.300the same effort into marketing that they did with their other movies and they're allowing it like
00:50:14.680when it doesn't do well instead of being like yeah we recognize that that was on us or like
00:50:19.520we just recognize that kind of the market's changing they're letting the blame fall on
00:50:25.700women like Nia Costa and just the fact that this is like a female-led movie um and again personally
00:50:32.140I'm personally not a big Captain Marvel fan like I don't think she's that interesting of a character
00:50:36.900but I think like everything that Brie Larson has gone through because of like the stuff that she's
00:50:41.840done with Marvel is so like it's so disappointing just like the level of like harassment that she's
00:50:47.440yeah kind of faced and um this is just such a clear example of that happening and it it is
00:50:54.800it is really weird that they're yeah again like the fact that they're kind of first of all
00:51:00.220positioning themselves as like look how progressive we are we are putting out this movie with all0.77
00:51:04.000these women of color and putting out all these tv shows we're having like more diversity but then0.91
00:51:09.060they're not owning up to the fact that they're setting a lot of these women up to be harassed
00:51:16.540and to face that kind of uh backlash on people that is an interesting theory and i tell you i
00:51:23.480I mean, the studio could put out statements talking about how proud they are to have their first black female Marvel director or like really advocating and supporting the people who are in this movie.
00:51:35.160They could make it clear that they are sticking by them and that they are championing them.
00:51:40.200And I think and as far as I know, and if anybody knows, like, let me know.
00:51:45.440But as far as I know, they're not really doing that.
00:51:47.100Like you could loudly affirm like we stick by your talent.
00:51:50.760i i don't think they have but i do know in the past they haven't because and this isn't just
00:51:56.500marvel i mean it is like disney is the parent company like i know when um the last kind of
00:52:01.540set of like star wars movies came out that was a whole thing where kelly marie tran uh is you know
00:52:08.460a woman of color was a lead in uh the second of the prequel or the the sequel movies i think1.00
00:52:14.000um she was fan i thought she was great in that movie she received so much harassment just for0.83
00:52:18.660being in that movie John Boyega also received a ton of harassment uh for being a black man in
00:52:24.480those movies and more I mean not Marvel uh Disney did not stick up for them at all so I'm not
00:52:30.180surprised to see that the same thing is now happening with again their other property
00:52:33.440what do you think is going on there I mean I I honestly think it is like the sort of weird
00:52:40.080combination of them wanting to have this facade of being like look we are elevating people of
00:52:46.780color were elevating women but then when push comes to shove not standing up for them and not
00:52:51.620you know i wasn't it like i because there was a whole thing a couple years ago too with like
00:52:56.800chris pratt was getting a bunch of hate online i would argue rightfully so because
00:53:03.360he does not seem to be a good person but like the way that all of the other like marvel actors like
00:53:11.120jumped to support him was like weird it was so especially like that happening after all the
00:53:17.620stuff with Brie Larson originally and yeah all the stuff that happened on like the Star Wars side
00:53:21.760of like Disney's kind of various things that they own um yeah it really like there definitely is
00:53:30.620like a double standard there I'm not sure what the internal dealings are from Disney's side this
00:53:36.120not me trying to like start conspiracies about disney but yeah no there definitely is a
00:53:41.560discrepancy with how they treat their white male actors and how they treat their the women that
00:53:48.420work for them and the people of color and the queer people that work for them so there's some
00:53:52.240something's up something's up also side note imagine if you were a woman of color who had
00:53:58.280faced harassment because you dared to be in a disney property and then you got the call where
00:54:04.360it's like we need everybody to publicly tweet support of Chris Pratt right now oh my god that0.93
00:54:08.500would shack my ass I honestly I can't remember if Ria Larson ever like released a statement around0.94
00:54:15.440that but I don't think she did which I also I totally support her if she did not that was0.99
00:54:19.860but yeah that's that is I would I would be so mad I would be so mad I completely agree with
00:54:25.460your point about institutions wanting the accolades that come with the appearance of like
00:54:31.460we have an inclusive cast, an inclusive director, but then not actually doing the things that it
00:54:37.680takes to support those people, right? Like it's not just about hiring marginalized people. It is
00:54:43.160about also creating the conditions that allow those people to do their jobs and thrive. And so
00:54:47.840if you're just going to hire them and then be quiet when they face unfair gendered or racialized
00:54:54.000harassment, you're not actually doing anything to get accolades for. You're just like setting
00:54:58.780them up to become punching bags so that you can look more you know i don't know with it or whatever
00:55:06.260like like i really take issue with that and i think another point to this that really i think
00:55:11.740i've made this point on that show before but when you have these films that are being unfairly and
00:55:15.960harshly critiqued for things about like the race or the gender the people who are in them or the
00:55:20.780director or whatever it does create this this situation that i hate where people well like
00:55:27.180well-meaning people feel the need to really go overboard to defend these movies to be like oh
00:55:32.900i'm gonna it's like this movie is getting all this unfair racist sexist hate so that i'm gonna be the
00:55:37.540champion of that movie but i don't like that either i want to be able to just watch the movie
00:55:41.820and judge it or critique it on its merits i understand that but like it is just not the
00:55:46.780climate in which i want to see a movie i want to watch a movie and be like here's what i liked
00:55:50.940about it here's where it fell short and not feel like i'm having to do some kind of like weird
00:55:55.960activism by tweeting about how much i like it to defend it from these racist sexist attacks
00:56:01.580right yeah because then the other side of it is like it's still like it's still a marvel movie
00:56:06.300it's still a disney movie it is still like a movie that is being produced by this like
00:56:11.120multi-billion dollar company like there's nothing really particularly progressive about like going
00:56:17.000out and supporting this movie i don't know i mentioned this earlier like i'm not a big fan
00:56:22.460of Captain Marvel I didn't really think that was a good movie uh I'm I haven't seen this one yet I
00:56:28.300don't I really loved the Miss Marvel show I thought that was great I'm excited to see like
00:56:31.980you know that actress was fantastic I think like I'll probably see the movie because I do want to
00:56:35.900see her again but it's like yeah I shouldn't I don't I don't want to have to feel like I have0.80
00:56:40.840to defend this movie somehow because this is going to be the epitome of feminism in film for0.99
00:56:46.160the next like couple like that is which is another weird thing I think like Marvel and Disney has0.50
00:56:50.380done is they've because they've kind of taken over the market so much it's like every time0.54
00:56:56.000like everything they do within movie like that is the standard so it's like when they put a woman0.69
00:57:01.680in a movie you have to go support it you have to go watch it otherwise you're not supporting women
00:57:05.580in film and it's like no you could go watch another movie made by a woman that probably has a more
00:57:11.280feminist you know message or whatever like i haven't again haven't seen this movie but like1.00
00:57:18.940the message of the last Captain Marvel movie was sort of like yay we love the military which I
00:57:23.700don't think is like the best thing to be putting out there um but yeah I don't know it is it is
00:57:32.020really weird um same with yeah like the I think they've kind of done the same thing when it comes
00:57:37.160to you have narratives about people of color and it was about women um they probably have not had
00:57:42.400that many queer characters yet but it is sort of weird to be seeing like like they had uh the like
00:57:47.500dr strange movie there was a queer character the only reason you would know that she was queer is0.75
00:57:51.600because she has a tiny uh pride flag pin on her jacket and they acted like they were like they0.55
00:57:57.100were like yes diversity win for us we did such a good job and it was like no i like 99 of the people
00:58:05.060that watched that didn't pick up on that that is not like if that is the standard you're setting0.83
00:58:09.880for queer representation we are fucked like it's god yeah did you ever watch that show on hbo the0.59
00:58:18.600other two i haven't i've been meaning to though okay there's a i don't want to spoil it there's0.99
00:58:22.720a plot line where somebody's in i think a disney movie and it's like oh it's the first openly gay
00:58:27.360blob in a movie how do you know he's gay because he sleeps with women not other blobs and this
00:58:34.060you know it's like the the levels that they will go through to be like see we did it she's wearing0.92
00:58:38.840a pin like my favorite somebody made a collage one time of all the articles of the different
00:58:43.600like first gay characters in disney movie which they were like and all of them were like we made
00:58:49.380a we made a slight comment that could have been interpreted as a character coming out but you know
00:58:55.500what we left it ambiguous enough that like the right wing won't care it's so weird they love
00:59:01.080patting themselves on the back for the bare minimum yeah like a character their their their gaze
00:59:05.960lingered a little bit and that's how you're supposed to know like that was supposed to be
00:59:09.320the the coming out scene y'all so for all of this i will i do have to say that it does sound like
00:59:15.260the director da costa is not sweating it in an interview with variety's angelique jackson she
00:59:20.400said there are pockets where you go because you're like i'm a super fan i want to exist in the space
00:59:24.620of just adoration which includes civilized critique then there are pockets that are really
00:59:29.300virulent and violent and racist and sexist and homophobic and all those awful things and i choose
00:59:34.880the side of the light that is the part of the fandom that i'm most attracted to and i really0.81
00:59:39.040liked that it's like not focusing on the hatred the racism the homophobia all of that but focusing
00:59:45.140on the light because she's got a great career ahead of her she's already hit a lot of like
00:59:50.180really dynamic and exciting career milestones i was happy to read that she is not letting
00:59:54.780this get to her that she is focused on the light yeah that's good to hear and i that's really
01:00:00.340interesting too because i mean you brought up her other her last film that she did was candy man
01:00:03.920which i remember was another one where there was a whole like it wasn't as big as this obviously
01:00:07.860but there was a whole like it came out right before the lockdown started there was a whole
01:00:11.540thing about like marketing and how that and that conversation too and and um yeah again it came out
01:00:18.560like right before everything shut down so it was sort of hard to you know hold that up to the same
01:00:23.440standards but yeah i mean she seems like she's a super talented individual and i hope the best for
01:00:30.360her and you know it's unfortunate that this has kind of been the the the um experience that she's
01:00:37.460had with marvel and with disney but i i do truly hope the best for her and again i do think that
01:00:44.700you know the future of cinema the future of storytelling especially storytelling that is
01:00:49.760aimed at marginalized folks it's not going to come from disney it's not going to come from these big
01:00:55.100companies it's going to come from these really talented individuals that are making art that
01:00:59.440really reflects what they want to see in the world so I truly hope the best for her and for1.00
01:01:06.400all of the you know swept aside women people of color queer people of the Disney machine maybe1.00
01:01:14.220they can all come together and do their own thing and it'll be way better than anything Disney's0.52
01:01:18.220made in the past 10 years anyways so yeah well speaking of very talented individuals Joey thank
01:01:24.200you so much for being here and talking through all these stories with me anytime loved being on
01:01:29.320always down to you know talk shit about disney and marvel so and just in case folks missed it
01:01:37.660tell us again about the new pod yes um thank you for reminding me um you all should go check out
01:01:44.760it's called afterlives the laylee and polanco story uh it is available the first episode is
01:01:50.220out wherever you listen to podcasts um our host is raquel willis who's a super awesome journalist0.98