00:00:38.460and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.
00:00:43.680I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.
00:00:47.300Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable,
00:00:51.020abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:00:54.640These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:00:58.680Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:10.580There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.
00:01:18.700I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.
00:01:21.440i'm here with my producer mike hello bridget hey mike thanks for being here and here's what
00:01:29.880you may have missed this week on the internet let's start with a little bit of news from my
00:01:34.120hometown washington dc where lieutenant shane lamon a lieutenant for the metropolitan police
00:01:39.100department's intelligence branch was just indicted after he used his position within law enforcement
00:01:44.180to share confidential information with enrique tario you might know that name because enrique
00:01:49.880is a former leader of the Proud Boys, the far-right extremist group. Enrique was just
00:01:55.020recently found guilty of seditious conspiracy in connection with the January 6th Capitol attack.
00:02:01.060But the federal indictment for the police lieutenant who helped Enrique claimed the
00:02:04.820men were in regular contact from July 2019 to at least January 2021 using encrypted messaging apps
00:02:11.020like Telegram. So what were these guys discussing? Well, as you might have guessed, they weren't just
00:02:15.620discussing the Vanderpump Rules reunion. Oh, man, if only they were. You know, I know they
00:02:21.280weren't, but I just like to imagine these guys just sitting around watching some Bravo and
00:02:28.520getting into it. Yeah, probably have big opinions about Lala and the whole gang.
00:02:33.480Well, the men actually discussed Proud Boy activities in the D.C. area,
00:02:37.320and this lieutenant actually ended up giving Tario a heads up about investigations into the
00:02:42.140Proud Boys. So a few days before January 6th, Enrique Tarrio was in Washington, D.C. And while
00:02:47.980he was here in D.C., he stole a Black Lives Matter banner from the Ashbury United Methodist Church,
00:02:53.340which is a historic black church here in D.C. He then set it on fire with lighter fluid. Now,
00:02:59.100because Enrique is a brilliant criminal mastermind, he posted a picture of himself
00:03:05.420holding a lighter onto his parlor account and admitted days later in an interview with The
00:03:09.920Washington Post that he had joined in burning of this flag. Lieutenant Lamond gave Tarrio a heads
00:03:15.220up that he was about to be arrested for charges from this burning of the flag. And I have to say,
00:03:20.860like, this story has been getting a lot of play here in D.C. I am honestly not surprised because
00:03:26.240this kind of confirms what we've already known. The FBI has been warning that extremist hate groups
00:03:31.100are active within law enforcement for at least the last 10 years. A 2006 intelligence report
00:03:36.680from the FBI shows that officials have had concerns about the infiltration of police departments
00:03:41.260for years, but kind of like just didn't give the public a warning about this. Reports show that in
00:03:47.700some cases, these people wanted to join the military or law enforcement specifically because
00:03:52.700they thought it might give them an opportunity to be violent toward people of color, or that they
00:03:57.240planned to join the military or police to learn how to wage war against people of color. According
00:04:02.180to ABC News, between 2016 and 2020, agents and analysts with the FBI's division in San Antonio
00:04:08.140concluded that white supremacists and other right-wing extremists would be, quote,
00:04:12.500very likely to seek affiliation with military and law enforcement entities in the furtherance
00:04:17.060of their ideologies, according to a confidential intelligence assessment issued last month.
00:04:21.920And I also think that there's, you know, we have this information from the FBI, but I think
00:04:26.280colloquially, like anybody with eyes who is paying attention has probably always seen this kind of
00:04:31.760cozy relationship between law enforcement and extremist groups. When you look at reports of
00:04:37.300how police treated extremist groups in places like Kenosha, I think it's a good example.
00:04:41.240After Kyle Rittenhouse traveled to Kenosha, Wisconsin and shot and killed two men during
00:04:45.700a protest, before the shooting, Rittenhouse is like lined up holding a rifle, ostensibly to,
00:04:51.720quote, protect, he says, local businesses. Police were shown on tape thanking him and giving him
00:04:59.140water about 15 minutes before he shot and killed two people. And even after the shooting, even
00:05:04.500though he is leaving the scene of the shooting with a gun and there are protesters following
00:05:09.160him, screaming at the police like, hey, this person just shot someone. The police just
00:05:13.840let him leave. When asked about this later, the police were like, oh, it was a chaotic
00:05:18.020situation. You know, who's to say what happened? Like we would have given anybody water. This
00:05:23.220is not evidence of a cozy relationship. But it also aligns with reports that armed extremist
00:05:28.500groups were kind of deputizing themselves to patrol neighborhoods in 2020 and beyond and that
00:05:33.780the police were just kind of okay with it and not, you know, did not seem to think it was anything
00:05:40.040that rose to the level of something they should be concerned about. And I think this cozy relationship
00:05:45.020between extremist groups and police really came to a head on January 6th at the Capitol, where
00:05:50.600according to NPR, nearly 30 sworn police officers from a dozen different departments attended the
00:05:55.800rally on January 6th. And several of them actually stormed the Capitol building with
00:06:00.540the insurrectionists. So, you know, those off-duty police officers were there to take
00:06:06.020part in the insurrection. And also you have on-duty police officers who were there on
00:06:11.300the scene, you know, trying to contain the situation. I truly do believe that some of
00:06:16.940these rioters storming the Capitol seemed surprised that the on-duty police officers
00:06:21.780kind of protecting the Capitol were not on their side, I bet a lot of these guys thought that these
00:06:28.520police officers were going to cheer them on as they entered the Capitol precisely because of
00:06:33.100this cozy relationship. And I think the biggest problem to me or the scariest thing is just how
00:06:38.900little scrutiny this has really gotten. It's clear both from the intelligence community and
00:06:43.840from the actions of police that there is this cozy relationship between extremists and armed
00:06:50.300agents of the state who regularly interact with the public. So why is this not a bigger deal?
00:06:56.480Yeah, it is really disturbing, but not surprising to learn that members of law enforcement were
00:07:02.180participating in the insurrection. You know, what is really surprising to me three years later is
00:07:09.920how Donald Trump and his allies have been able to downplay the significance of the insurrection.
00:07:15.880You know, back in on January 6th of 2020, it seemed like such a huge deal. And it was a huge deal. It was a brazen, violent attack and broad daylight, not just on the Capitol, but on the peaceful transition of power after an election, which is one of the most, if not the most fundamental American value.
00:07:36.800And they nearly ended that after over 200 uninterrupted years. And I'm just so the thing that I'm most shocked about is how successful they've been at convincing large portions of the population and the media that it was like not a big deal.
00:07:57.220Just some concerned citizens having a little civic demonstration when, in fact, they were like violent insurrectionists trying to overthrow the government.
00:08:09.920Yeah, I mean, we were both in D.C. when that happened.
00:08:13.360I don't care who tries to convince me that it wasn't a big deal.
00:08:20.040It was the most eerie day of my entire life, and I will never forget it.
00:08:24.600I watched Ashley Babbitt die on national television.
00:08:26.660I was like watching. I will never forget it. I was I think it was the first time I ever saw dead someone get killed on TV. I knew as soon as it happened that she was dead. It was it was such a crazy day. I don't care how many times these Republicans try to minimize it. It was a big deal. I will never forget it.
00:08:46.880yeah seriously and it's such a complicated story because at the same time that these there were
00:08:54.880these police officers marching with the insurrectionists and storming the capital
00:08:59.080there were other police officers they're risking their lives you know some of them
00:09:03.800sacrifice their lives trying to protect it and you know we're recording this uh on friday evening
00:09:10.940of Memorial Day weekend. And so, you know, it's hard not to think about those officers who lost
00:09:17.100their lives on that day. And if it weren't for them, Donald Trump would probably be president
00:09:21.640right now, and he would probably stay president for the rest of his life. Democracy in America
00:09:26.100would be over. They literally laid down their lives to save the republic. You know, it's not
00:09:32.520hyperbole. And so I'm trying to keep that in mind as I think through what to make of this story.
00:09:37.760You know, whenever there's any story about police misconduct, whatever officials are in charge are usually pretty quick to point to like a bad apples theory that everything is fine.
00:09:49.640This is just a couple of bad apples. And, you know, we know that that's bullshit.0.99
00:09:53.720There's systemic problems and a culture of silence that enable police abuse and state sponsored oppression to flourish in the shadows.1.00
00:10:04.880But I think this and that's you know, that's bullshit. Bad apples is a bullshit theory. But this story and the complications is a good reminder that, you know, some apples really, truly are like solidly rotten, like really bad.1.00
00:10:21.880And, you know, those dozen police departments that had a couple of people show up and participate in the insurrection and try to overthrow the government.
00:10:31.980I hope they're taking a good, hard look at their personnel and getting them the hell out of there.
00:10:38.020Oh, I mean, I had to shorten this research for the sake of we're doing a 30 minute podcast.
00:13:11.400Today we're announcing that if our systems identify that someone has visited one of these places,
00:13:15.680we will delete these entries from location history soon after they visit.
00:13:19.560This change will take effect in the coming weeks.
00:13:21.920Well, guess what? They haven't done that.
00:13:23.720The digital rights group Accountable Tech put out a report where they tested Google's updated policies
00:13:28.100by visiting abortion clinics in different states with newly purchased Android phones.
00:13:32.280Based on their experimentations and research, Accountable Tech found that Google is still retaining location search queries by default and location history for users who have it turned on, including information about reproductive care facilities, despite their public promise to begin deleting it.
00:13:49.260Yeah. Disappointing, not surprising. Google, they keep showing us who they are.
00:13:55.460According to Accountable Tech, by retaining both location search query and location history data, Google jeopardizes the health, safety, and legal status of their users who visit reproductive care facilities in states where abortion is criminalized.
00:14:07.360If prosecutors in a state with a restrictive abortion law receive a tip about someone seeking an abortion, a subpoena would likely force Google to hand over sensitive data.
00:14:15.180So we have a little bit of news and movement on this issue.
00:14:18.780Nearly a dozen Senate Democrats wrote to Google this week with questions about how it deletes users' location history
00:14:23.680when they have visited sensitive places like abortion clinics,
00:14:26.620expressing concern that the company may not have been consistently deleting the data as promised.
00:14:31.540The letter came from Senators Amy Klobuchar, Elizabeth Warren, and Maisie Harino
00:14:34.960seeking answers from Google about the types of location that Google considers to be sensitive
00:14:39.060and for just how long it will take for the company to automatically delete visit history.
00:14:43.800That's not all. A few days ago, an anonymous complainant filed a lawsuit against Google
00:14:47.720claiming that it unlawfully collects health data, including abortion searches, on third-party
00:14:52.140websites that use Google tech. Jane Doe, whose legal representation is looking to get the case
00:14:56.520certified as a class action, claims that her private information was intercepted by Google
00:15:01.180when she used scheduling pages on Planned Parenthood's website in 2018 to search for an
00:15:05.940abortion provider. So something that I have to ask, like, is it legal for Google to say one thing
00:15:11.940about their privacy policy and then fully do another? Maybe. You know, I'm not a lawyer. I'm
00:15:17.340not an expert in this, but I fully do not understand how Google misleading the public
00:15:21.680about their data privacy practices is legal under the Federal Trade Commission. But I'm no expert
00:15:27.460on this. What I can tell you is that whether or not it's legal, it is certainly unethical and it
00:15:31.820is certainly dangerous. We all deserve privacy and it should not be up to the whims of the tech
00:15:37.140billionaires who are mostly men who run Google to decide whether or not we get it. Totally.
00:15:42.640You know, to disclose, I have an Android phone and I really need to get off of it because Google just has such a long track record of not respecting privacy.
00:15:55.460In 2020, there are some documents that were made public from a lawsuit against Google that had been brought by Arizona's attorney general that ultimately Google ended up settling for $85 million.
00:16:06.440Some internal documents showed that Google was effectively ignoring users' privacy settings.
00:16:12.640And the privacy controls were so obtuse and unnavigable that even Google's own engineers weren't able to figure out how to use them.
00:16:21.000And these emails were from the Google engineers talking with each other, trying to make sense of, like, how did these privacy controls work?
00:16:29.820And so if they can't figure out how they work, how is an end user supposed to have any hope of doing it? And not only were they confusing, but they seemed simple, but then they didn't actually do what the users could reasonably expect them to do in terms of opting out of different privacy settings.
00:16:49.920And that doesn't happen by accident. It was a choice that Google made to design their privacy settings that way. Even if they didn't intentionally set out to deceive their users, which is debatable, but even giving them the benefit of the doubt, they still clearly demonstrated a lack of respect for privacy.
00:17:10.700and it's not surprising right they're they're an advertising company they they sell ads that's
00:17:16.080their top priority and they collect data to allow them to sell more ads to more people and so of
00:17:21.200course they're not going to allow a little thing like privacy to get in the way of that lack of
00:17:24.920concern for privacy is is a value of theirs and so just like the way those user settings
00:17:31.920and privacy controls were an illusion that did not actually stop people's private data from being
00:17:37.600sent to google now we learned their public statements about protecting abortion data
00:17:41.420were fabrications uh and again i don't know if they did that there's an intentional lie or just
00:17:47.020like a sin of omission where they just couldn't be bothered to do it uh but you you raise a great
00:17:56.060point that you know people a should have a a right to privacy it just in general period b they should
00:18:05.080certainly have a right to privacy for health information and medical information. And then C,
00:18:10.460at the very least, people should be able to expect that when Google says they're going to do
00:18:15.280something that they will actually do it instead of doing nothing, which seems to be what they've
00:18:20.040done. Yeah. And I think that you really put it well. I don't think that you should have to be
00:18:25.820a privacy expert or a lawyer or somebody who is really knowledgeable about, you know,
00:18:31.580tech PR speak versus what is happening in reality to be able to make decisions for your health and
00:18:39.960for your life. And I think that Google has created a situation where, yeah, it's like people shouldn't
00:18:45.600have to be legal experts to just understand what is happening with their data when they
00:18:50.460are accessing information that could wind them in prison, right? Like we should be able to expect
00:18:56.280more from Google. We deserve privacy, particularly when it comes to something as sensitive as our
00:19:01.560health information in this climate where abortion is criminalized. And, you know, being a person who
00:19:07.720is seeking an abortion right now is so scary. And just being someone who is pregnant is scary0.62
00:19:13.940enough. So layered on top of that, the expectation that like, oh, well, you have to be a data
00:19:20.080privacy expert or a lawyer to understand what digital trail you might be leaving when you try
00:19:25.520to access information to make decisions about your health, the burden is too high for regular
00:19:29.620people. And add in the fact of, like, whether it's a vindictive ex-lover or a nosy neighbor
00:19:34.880or a vigilante that you don't even know who can turn you in because they believe that you've
00:19:41.680tried to access information about abortion, that digital footprint that Google has can be used to
00:19:47.000criminalize you. And so Google right now is, like, doing something that I think is not just
00:19:50.820unethical, potentially illegal, question mark, but deeply, deeply dangerous and a threat to
00:19:57.920public safety. Yeah, the stakes are super high for people. And, you know, this is another great
00:20:06.120example of why we need regulation to protect privacy in this country. Maybe that looks like
00:20:12.120what they have in Europe. Maybe it looks like what California is doing. I don't know exactly
00:20:16.500what that regulation looks like, but it's clear that we can't trust tech companies to do the right
00:20:22.560thing on their own. Maybe some of them might every now and then. That's great. But we can't
00:20:27.600rely on that time and again. They demonstrate that they just can't be trusted to regulate
00:20:34.120themselves. It's a pattern. We need some regulation to rein in the abuses of tech companies and
00:20:42.720social media platforms. Let's take a quick break.
00:20:52.560Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Crave, Netflix, and Disney Plus
00:23:11.900Florida Governor Ron DeSantis announced that he's running for president and he did it via a Twitter spaces because it is an initiative helmed by Elon Musk.
00:23:20.080The entire thing was plagued with problems, screw ups and glitches.
00:23:23.820Of course. Of course. The first 20 minutes was just people talking over each other and audio issues.
00:23:29.100David Sachs, who is a venture capitalist, who host who is also the host of the All In podcast, which side note, is definitely a more popular tech podcast than ours by like a million percent.
00:23:39.380So I don't want people to think this is like sour grapes, but they're definitely a more popular tech.
00:29:53.760And not only are they the ones who are too online,
00:29:57.860But it's clear what their goal, their ideal vision of what an ideal online space is, which is a super safe space for them, free from trigger warnings of like truth or accountability, where they can just go off about like how they are having the biggest, greatest Twitter space ever that everyone is watching.
00:32:17.700Since introducing this year's collection, we've experienced threats impacting our team members' sense of safety and well-being while at work.
00:32:23.700Given these volatile circumstances, we are making adjustments to our plans, including removing items that have been at the center of the most significant confrontational behavior.0.99
00:32:36.560You know, I really hate defending a corporation.
00:32:40.100And so I feel like I'm in a weird position.
00:32:41.740And I also hate, one of the reasons why I actually don't really like Pride that much is precisely because of corporate allyship that I just think feels weird. That's an episode for another day. But I really kind of feel for Target here because I think they're in kind of an impossible situation.
00:32:59.140If you listen to our series Internet Hate Machine with Cool Zone Media, then you know how important it is that brands understand how to deal with these kinds of coordinated harassment campaigns.
00:33:08.820The people behind them, these right wing extremists, they are never satisfied because it's not about one shirt, one swimsuit, the collection or pride.
00:33:17.480If Target pulls the collection, rather than being satisfied, conceding any ground to these people will only empower them.
00:33:25.020So it's not it's it's it's I don't think it's a good strategy to pull their collection. But that said, I don't think that staff at Target should have to put up with being harassed or threatened to protect this pride collection, especially younger staff or gender nonconforming or trans staff.0.58
00:33:41.160Right. They are not paid enough to put up with that. And this was not a position that I had in the beginning. When I first saw that Target was taking out this pride collection, I was like, how can they just like how can they just like cave to these extremists? Like, that's not what you should do.0.82
00:33:59.120I read this tweet thread from a queer trans Target employee.0.96
00:34:05.960Also, if Target didn't pull the merch and these bigoted turf assholes did do something unthinkable0.99
00:34:21.420and the employees were injured or killed,0.98
00:34:24.080y'all would say Target kept selling stuff because they valued making money over the safety of their employees.
00:34:28.460It's a no-win situation. And so I agree with that. I feel for employees like the tweeter that I just read from who are like, listen, I don't make enough money to die defending Target's pride collection. I really, really feel that.
00:34:49.700But I also don't think it's right for Target to just kowtow to bullies and extremists.
00:34:56.780You know, I've heard people argue that, oh, well, Target could just have security guards, like, you know, have armed guards or security at their stores.
00:35:05.460And they definitely could. That's definitely an option.
00:35:08.060But I would argue that if you need an armed guard or security just so Target can stock some gay shirts without incident, then we have really lost a lot.0.59
00:35:18.560And I don't think a world where you need armed guards just to have a pride collection is a world that I want to live in. And so I just can't find a solution that is that is right. Like, I don't I don't I want to be clear, like, I don't think Target should be kowtowing to bullies.0.99
00:35:37.000I also don't think that employees should have to feel unsafe. And it's worth noting that when pharmacies were refusing to stock abortion pills, one of the reasons they gave is that like, oh, we want to make sure that our pharmacists are safe.
00:35:54.580So that is definitely a well-worn thing that corporations say when they are defending their choice to not do something or to do something.
00:36:04.400I'm not sure if that's what's going on with Target.
00:36:08.380My sense is I do actually think that the videos that people have filmed are concerning enough that it doesn't seem safe to me, to be honest.
00:38:32.900entitlement that that we have from living in a queer friendly city like dc i do worry that there
00:38:40.640is some sense of entitlement among younger queer people and allies and trans people today
00:38:50.300that these sorts of like homophobic turfy bigoted attitudes are fringe right and like the the
00:38:59.920kowtowing to these hateful people it is really worrisome because it's definitely going to0.95
00:39:07.000embolden them they're definitely not gonna take their shitty attitudes and go home and declare
00:39:13.640victory right they're gonna do something else and so it's it's such a tough spot like yeah i totally
00:39:20.140sympathize with the the workers and target and it does sound like it was unsafe situation and so i
00:39:25.600don't blame the executives at target for making that decision to pull some of their merchandise
00:39:29.880to deal with this like acute safety situation in their stores right now but uh i can't help
00:39:39.360but feel like that decision also makes us all a little bit less safe in the longer term it
00:39:45.420definitely does i mean this is what we when i was doing the research for internet hate machine
00:39:49.960We saw this time and time again, that it just emboldened a small but vocal subsection of people who had a lot of time on their hands. And I want to make something really clear. I don't believe like like kind of like how are we talking about Ron DeSantis? He is the one who is extremely online.
00:40:07.940I think your average person, even as someone who is a Republican, I don't think they spend this much time thinking about pride or thinking about trans people.
00:40:17.800Even if they are people who don't understand LGBTQ identity, don't understand these issues, I don't think that they are consumed by it where it's like I'm going to film myself going into a Target, doing potentially criminal behavior and having a public tantrum about it.
00:40:35.860I think that even a lot of Republicans probably don't spend this much time on it.
00:40:41.520It is the people who are extremely online, who are super, super extremist, who are trying to make it seem like this is a normal position to have, when in fact it is out of step, I would argue, in my opinion, with how most people feel.
00:40:58.780I think that most people are like, yeah, I'm not going to film myself going into a Target, destroying a pride collection, even if I don't understand trans people.0.92
00:41:05.860Because I have shit to do in my day that doesn't include that.0.96
00:41:08.540Like, I have other things to think about.0.99
00:41:11.840I think you're absolutely right right now.0.98
00:41:14.040But I think those same people who are, you know, maybe vote Republican or, you know, consider themselves on the right, even if they don't get as fired up about these culture war issues that these people do, they're still seeing that content.
00:41:34.420And exactly like you said, I think one of the goals of these people doing this is to normalize it and make it seem like this is an OK, normal attitude to have.
00:41:46.420Absolutely. Yeah, I completely agree. I think that it is about making this position commonplace.
00:41:53.940And I don't think it actually is. I think that that is part of what these public campaigns against Target, against Bud Light are meant to signal that if you want to be a Republican, part of being a Republican, maybe you don't have to go out and like destroy pride stuff.
00:42:10.400But when it comes to how how legislating trans people, you know, goes out in your town, you know what side to be on.
00:42:21.900So I think it's about like using the internet and using these like spectacles to signal to people, this is what it means to be a conservative in 2023. You got to be against, you know, like, again, like it is wild to me to even say like, who cares this much about the merchandise at Target? I see stuff at Target I don't like all the time. I don't film myself destroying it. Most people don't.0.67
00:42:45.740like that is criminal behavior it is it's i mean it's it's not just like it's it's so hard for me
00:42:52.460i mean i mean it's so hard for me to even like explain what i mean it is like so it's like
00:42:58.060socially what's the word i'm looking for um what's the word you're looking for
00:43:04.580it's like it's like it's like anti-social behavior it's like oh totally you know yeah1.00
00:43:11.940We have lost the ability to, like, be like, well, we live in a society and maybe I don't like all this rainbow stuff, but, like, that's life, you know?1.00
00:43:21.220Whatever happened to minding one's own business, right?0.99
00:43:24.860Like, I thought that was a conservative thing.
00:43:27.780You know, maybe you don't have to like something, but why do you have to, like, legislate it and, you know, affect other people?
00:43:59.320He one of his kids is dating a person of color.
00:44:03.160He's white and like he had to do some work, but he's cool that.
00:44:05.940he's not like a bad guy, but he definitely considers himself a conservative. And for the
00:44:11.440first time on this trip home a couple of weeks ago, he asked me about like, well, what do you
00:44:19.980think about gender affirming care? And like, should we be giving that to kids? And it's like,
00:44:25.500why do you care all of a sudden? Like, there are no trans people in your life. There's certainly
00:44:32.780no trans kids. I can only imagine what you think gender affirming care means. And yet this is the
00:44:41.480topic that you bring up that you want to talk about because it's what you see on the internet.
00:44:48.640And it's really worrisome. It's really worrisome. It is worrisome in how effectively
00:44:56.140they were able to be like, oh, well, we're just asking questions about bathrooms. Oh,
00:45:01.560We're just asking questions about protecting girls in sports.
00:45:04.080We're just asking questions about whether parents who give their kids access to gender-affirming care should have their kids taken by the state.0.98
00:45:12.380Like, it's like the way that it's gotten so incrementally more damaging in exactly the way that trans activists and advocates warned from the very fucking beginning is terrifying.0.87
00:45:27.040And it is wild how much misinformation I have seen about this Target Pride collection.0.94
00:45:52.760It's just like one of those things of like, think about it for five seconds and see if it makes any sense.
00:45:57.800There was another claim that Target was selling a children's T-shirt that said, Satan respects pronouns with a pastel image of Satan on it.
00:46:04.940First of all, I feel like if you're a conservative Christian and a shirt says that Satan respects pronouns, wouldn't you kind of like that?
00:46:14.220Because you don't like Satan and Satan respects pronouns.
00:49:28.940It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse.
00:49:36.840Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place.
00:49:46.020Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:50:58.320It's not just, you know, angry people.
00:51:00.740It is a targeted, coordinated harassment campaign being led by specific people with big platforms.
00:51:08.300I've seen this really lazy coverage that relies on, like very heavily relies on passive voice,
00:51:13.620making it seem like, you know, like I'll say like, oh, you know, amidst this climate, again,
00:51:18.600making it seem like this is something other than an intentional coordinated campaign to attack
00:51:23.700LGBTQ people and the people who support them. And it's not just in stores. It is in laws that get
00:51:28.540queer and trans people killed. It is in laws that keep queer and trans people from accessing0.98
00:51:33.860healthcare that they need. It is not just about these shirts at Target. It is so much bigger than
00:51:38.920that. And I think it is so lazy and sad that we don't have a media ecosystem that reports this
00:51:45.420as it is happening they continue to make it seem like it's just some weird thing in the climate
00:51:51.620like oh it's warm out today people are angry about trans shirts at target that is not what's
00:51:56.860happening and we do not have a media who is telling the truth about what is actually happening
00:52:00.560woof Bridget uh so was there any good news this week because I'm feeling pretty bummed out after
00:52:09.880that rundown. I know. It's sad. But don't worry. I got you. So people are turning to the internet
00:52:16.520to answer questions about their gender and sexuality. This is according to a new analysis
00:52:20.600from the Cultural Currents Institute, a market research firm that studies opinion trends.
00:52:24.720They looked at Google Trends information from 2004 to this May for questions related to sexual
00:52:29.440orientation and gender identity across all 50 states. They found that Google searches by users
00:52:35.020for phrases questioning their own sexuality and gender identity, so things like, am I gay or am
00:52:40.400I a lesbian, have increased by 1,300%. Here's why I think this is good news. People, especially0.88
00:52:47.460young people, should be able to count on the internet to help them answer questions about
00:52:51.340their identity. We're obviously living in a time where right-wing forces are trying to eradicate
00:52:56.440queerness and transness, not just from the internet, but also from public life. But the
00:53:01.100internet is another battleground for them in this fight. For instance, the Heritage Foundation
00:53:06.440outright stated their intention to use legislation like the Child Online Privacy and Protection Act,
00:53:12.200which is legislation that would create an age requirement to access the internet, to use that
00:53:16.500legislation to fight against, quote, the woke design of digital spaces and to guard kids against
00:53:21.300the harms of sexual and transgender content. That is a nice palate cleanser. It's a really0.50
00:53:27.720nice reminder that all these right-wing fascists and bigots are a minority uh they're hopefully a0.80
00:53:38.560dying breed and that part of why they're so angry is because they know that the general population
00:53:44.920and young people in particular are just moving further and further away from them and they're
00:53:49.740reactionary, intolerant, invasive ideologies that just want to, you know, force people into
00:54:00.220these narrow little boxes that people have, that they've been trying to get people into for
00:54:06.120generations. And with the internet, we now can all see what a lie those tiny little boxes are.
00:54:14.600no one fits in them we're all so much vaster and more interesting than uh than they would have us
00:54:21.620believe and they know that and the internet allows us to see that and it's it's a nice reminder that
00:54:30.620people are still finding that and questioning things and exploring who they are and how they
00:54:36.860relate to each other uh because i you know i personally genuinely believe that that is a mark
00:54:44.740of a healthy person right who asked the question who am i how do i relate to the world how do we
00:54:49.400relate to each other and and people are asking that you know regardless of what answer they get
00:54:55.420when they do a google search for am i gay uh they're asking the question and they're learning
00:55:02.860something about themselves. And I think it's that questioning that is so terrifying to them.
00:55:09.120Well, I think that you're exactly right. That's a beautiful way to put it. And I think that it
00:55:13.820is a reminder that bigots and right-wing fascists and extremists are in the minority. And we know
00:55:20.000that because if their positions were actually enticing, they wouldn't have to lie about them
00:55:26.100to get people to follow them. You wouldn't have to lie about the kinds of pride things that target
00:55:32.680cells to get people on your side. So the fact that they're lying in a kind of way actually
00:55:37.020shows that they know that their positions are unpopular because you wouldn't have to
00:55:40.920lie if they were popular. And so I agree. I think that this is good news that people
00:55:45.500are turning to the internet to answer these questions because questioning yourself, looking
00:55:52.140inward, being introspective, figuring out these things about who you are and how you
00:55:56.140fit into the world is the mark of a healthy person. And we should be encouraging that.
00:56:00.400And so if people are still able to turn to the Internet for exploration of their identities to ask some of those questions, that's a good thing.
00:56:08.420You know, it's what people should be able to turn to the Internet for.
00:56:12.320I've shared this on the podcast many times when I was growing up.
00:56:15.380The Internet is how I learned about myself and my own identity and my own sexuality and gender presentation.
00:56:23.020And if I had not had the Internet, I don't know what I would have done.
00:56:25.560And so I'm very lucky that I was coming of age when I did in the kind of Internet climate that I was.
00:56:31.760And I genuinely worry about the next generation.
00:56:35.180Will they have an Internet landscape that they can turn to for these questions?
00:56:39.240It is nice to get a little bit of information that suggests that that Internet, which I think is so crucial, is still there for them.
00:57:41.700If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts.
00:57:45.020For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app,
00:57:48.220Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:57:52.420I survived nine months in captivity and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive
00:58:03.080what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are The Survivor Files. Every
00:58:09.100week I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled,
00:58:14.500and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:58:19.700Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:58:28.080If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.
00:58:33.840Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.
00:58:42.140Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture
00:58:45.620with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions.