00:00:59.040Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:06.000Innovating through technology is a form of survival, you know, to see and be seen, to build community.
00:01:17.640There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.
00:01:21.400i'm bridget todd and this is there are no girls on the internet
00:01:28.540one of the biggest questions that i'm grappling with these days when it comes to social media
00:01:35.120is where are we all going next the entire social media landscape is shifting facebook feels less
00:01:42.880and less relevant by the day i mean is anybody even still on threads and twitter is well twitter
00:01:50.740When I scroll Twitter these days, it's clear just how much these platforms are not built for us, with us in mind.
00:01:59.060It honestly just does not feel good to show up there anymore.
00:02:02.420And as Twitter's policies get more and more hostile, more and more people like me are jumping ship.
00:02:08.000And in this time where we're all searching for what's next,
00:02:11.140a Black-owned alternative that tries to put more power in the hands of the people who use their platform might just be the next big thing.0.97
00:02:21.280Spill is a meme-forward, highly visual social media platform where users post spills, as in spilling the tea.
00:02:29.420The team behind Spill is clear that they want it to be a place where Black and brown folks and other traditionally marginalized identities can feel safe showing up.
00:02:39.620And for Kenya Parham, building better and safer technologies is a kind of community love language.
00:02:46.940My name is Kenya Parham, and I serve as the Global Vice President for Community and Partnerships at Spill.
00:02:52.480For Kenya, technology is just another and a long career of advocating for traditionally marginalized communities.
00:02:59.380So I'm very excited about Spill. I'm very excited to talk about Spill.
00:03:03.260But if it's OK, I would love to start with you, Kenya.
00:03:06.900Like, how did you get your start in technology? What brings you to this work?
00:03:11.520Well, I took a really nontraditional pathway to becoming a tech executive.
00:03:16.080I started off in the world of electoral politics and was an entrepreneur for the better part of a decade.
00:03:22.800I've always worked at the intersection of my purpose and my passions.
00:03:26.800And so that has meant advocating on behalf of marginalized communities, whether in the world of civic engagement or then transitioning into entertainment and film.
00:03:37.700I've always been passionate about narratives and the impact that is created from narratives.
00:03:43.580And so I joined the Spill team at the top of this year, and it's been a wild ride ever since.
00:03:50.860Do you see the work with, you know, being a tech executive, do you see that work as overlapping with your interest in narratives and stories, particularly for marginalized communities?
00:04:01.840Here's the thing. The role of just a tech executive, right, is super broad, right?
00:04:08.100What I do see mad overlapping is the skill set required to be successful at building community, particularly on behalf of communities that are underrepresented and underserved.
00:04:21.400So much to my surprise and affirmation, my nontraditional pathway was recognized by the folks who brought me on to this team.
00:04:32.200And because, you know, imposter syndrome is real, girlfriend. And I got to tell you, I didn't know if, you know, the route that I took to getting to this place would be seen as qualified to be in a role like this.
00:04:47.780But what I do know is that, you know, advocating on behalf of communities that are in need, you know, making sure that we redirect resources to the folks who and to the communities who stand to benefit the most from receiving those things looks like politics.
00:05:08.740It looks like community building. It looks like advocacy. It looks like engagement.
00:05:13.380And so, you know, just tremendously grateful. I pinch myself every single day.
00:05:19.200Well, I would love to dig into that because you mentioned imposter syndrome and I obviously don't need to tell you that there are not a lot of tech executives that look like us.
00:05:27.740Did you ever see yourself being somebody who was like that did have the title of global tech executive?
00:05:34.200And did you ever think that, like, I assume you don't have like a, like, you're not like an engineer. I feel like oftentimes people think that if you don't have some specific hard tech background, you don't really get to take up space in conversations about technology.
00:05:49.440that's so it's so real I mean yeah I I've always uh felt like I was put on this earth to do big
00:05:59.220things um thanks to my parents Dr. Thomas Parham and Davida Hopkins Parham I am a kid who um has
00:06:07.480had a battery in her back and a tank fuel full of uh positivity fuel my entire life um thanks to
00:06:16.120them. So, you know, I've always felt, you know, mission driven. Technology is all around us,
00:06:22.340right? We're surrounded by technology. You know, whether that's, you know, any tool that we use
00:06:29.100to advance, insert blank here, right, is a form of tech, right? Language and lexicon is technology.
00:06:36.600Fashion is technology. You know, culture, right? Tech is culture. And so, you know, I think it's important to always acknowledge that, you know, tech is not just, you know, connecting wires and tubes and infrastructure at all times, right?
00:06:57.700Tech is expansive. And whenever we're building new worlds and charting new courses, right, you need a squad full of people who know how to traverse uncharted terrain. And, you know, I love my engineers, you know what I mean? But they're great at what they do. And we're great at what we do. And together we make an amazing team.
00:08:07.920But what I will say about that is, you know, we are in a really interesting time right now where having computers in our hands, right, empowers us to do so, so, so much.
00:08:24.180And, you know, we all hear this large scale, you know, call to action for more black and brown folks and marginalized folks and queer folks to get involved in tech, right, in STEM and in STEAM.
00:08:37.920But now that I'm in this seat and living it, I completely understand how revolutionary it is to be able to take part in building a world that has an opportunity to function better, more holistically, healthier for people who look like us, differently than the IRL, right?
00:08:57.840the URL can do things that the IRL can't do. And I, as a Black woman, love that and arrive in my
00:09:08.820seat to do my work every day with a sense of excitement and vigor, knowing that I'm not just
00:09:15.240creating this world for me, but for everybody else and doing it with some badass teammates who I
00:09:20.880admire. And, you know, what a joy, you know, and tech also gives us an opportunity to look at,
00:09:28.740you know, the brilliance of younger generations that are out there innovating in real time,
00:09:33.860not because they desire to just go viral, right, but because innovating through technology is a
00:09:40.900form of survival, you know, to see and be seen, to build community, right? And that's what we're
00:09:46.520really focused on at Spill. The story of traditionally marginalized people has always
00:09:51.720been a story rooted in resilience. We show up in these spaces that are not always built with us in
00:09:56.780mind, and we innovate. We take the lemons we're given and make lemonade in the form of art,
00:10:01.900building movements, and connections. And Spill is also a story rooted in resilience,
00:10:07.440in taking a situation that seems tough and turning it into an opportunity to build something instead.
00:10:13.540Spill starts with an origin story that might be familiar to a lot of folks in technology right now.
00:10:41.680outgoing global head of social and editorial for Twitter, um, uh, was a part of the first
00:10:48.240round of layoffs, um, when that other person fired him, um, uh, on November 4th. And, um,
00:10:56.260he placed a phone call to our co-founder Devarus Brown, who's arguably one of the foremost
00:11:00.380technologists of our generation. Um, and they had both met on their first day at Twitter,
00:11:06.220some time ago and, you know, Fonz picked up the phone to DeVaris and said, hey, you know,
00:11:14.860basically I've been laid off and it's time to build. And that's when they started. So everything
00:11:19.900you see from Spill is, you know, from a phone call that was placed not even a year ago, which
00:11:25.600is incredible. So the story of Spill then is really a story about us like doing what we always
00:11:31.240do, taking situations or spaces that are kind of hostile to us and making lemonade out of those
00:11:37.400lemons. It really takes having that larger vision to see how those tough moments could actually be
00:11:42.780used to create something bigger. Listen, you know, yes, yes. And, you know, the story of Spill is a
00:11:49.880story of preparedness meets opportunity a thousand percent, right? We've experienced a couple of
00:11:56.180different waves of growth along the way, arguably before the technology would say that we were
00:12:02.720prepared for it. Right. But our team, you know, did our best to kind of meet the needs that were
00:12:08.400exposed by, you know, some of the failures from the, those other apps. You're being so like
00:12:16.900charitable, right? And so we, listen, honey, I told you I started off in politics. Okay. So,
00:12:25.020So, you know, we, but we, you know, preparedness meets opportunity. That's how we got to this place, right? And doing it afraid, doing it scared, building it anyway, trusting, going off of what you know, you know, Fonz always says you are more right than you think you are, right? You're more right than you even know, in terms of the hypotheses and the theories around why this is the time to center us, you know, and we had a lot of different proof points that told us that along the way.
00:12:52.280I mean, first waitlist signup for a spill went up in December of 2022, 25,000 signups in 24 hours, 50,000 by the end of the week.
00:13:03.500You know, our waitlist now for iPhone and Android, you know, is north of 500,000 people.
00:13:11.060We've got, you know, I can't give out any other numbers than that, but I will just say that we got a healthy amount of people on this beta iPhone only currently app.
00:13:20.160and, you know, are hitting numbers that we thought we would be hitting, you know, next year.
00:13:26.140And so, again, it's just continued validation of our thesis, which is that if you build an
00:13:33.260ecosystem that centers the most marginalized, the people who drive culture, who advance
00:13:39.000culture forward, but unfortunately receive the lion's share of hate, you know, it creates a
00:13:46.220healthier ecosystem for everybody, right? If we center ourselves, it's not about excluding
00:13:52.580everybody else. It's just saying we're being demonstrative about who we're building this
00:13:56.460platform for, about where these opportunities are going to be centered. And we believe that
00:14:02.520it creates a better opportunity in a healthier social ecosystem for everybody. And that really
00:14:08.280could be modeled throughout the entire world, right? It really could.
00:14:12.440What do you think our tech landscape would be like if that were a given, if when people were making platforms, they started out trying to figure out how to make sure that the most marginalized, but also the people who are creating the culture on their platforms are really the ones that they are centering, that they are listening to, that they are amplifying?
00:14:32.640it it would look exactly like spill that's exactly what it would look like it would be
00:14:38.980the spilliverse uh times four five six seven eight nine ten and and you know what we got it
00:14:45.500right um that's why we're here and that's why we're doing this and there are there are validation
00:14:49.960points outside of like it's not just because of some moral issue right or ethical issue of why
00:14:56.480we need to do this it actually makes dollars and cents right so if we're going to talk about
00:15:00.760culture drivers, people who advance culture, people who create content that we all share
00:15:06.920virally across the internet, right? Goldman Sachs released a report talking about the
00:15:12.660creator economy not too long ago and said that it's set to approach a half a trillion dollars
00:15:18.660by 2027, which is going to double in size over the next five years, right? Right now we're at,
00:15:25.720$250 billion today. They're expecting it's going to be around $480 billion. That's a creator
00:15:33.740economy. And that's content that is created by underserved groups and people. And we know that
00:15:40.740it outperforms other content by industry benchmarks. But unfortunately, these content
00:15:46.780creators don't have safe spaces to show up and be authentically themselves or have the proper tools
00:15:52.680or compensation models to monetize for their audiences.
00:15:57.220And then conversely, right, we see big brands painting street signs
00:16:03.080and renaming placards and making these big pledges
00:16:08.880to spend ad dollars with multicultural vendors.
00:16:12.980And they're trying to meet their commitments and struggling to do so, right,
00:16:17.300and creating these creator funds that don't end up getting spent, right?
00:16:20.920And so, you know, we find ourselves at a time right now where the convergence of these things are happening, right? We have a robust creator economy that is thriving. We've got brands that are struggling for a lot of reasons to meet their stated commitments, right?
00:16:38.060And then we have a group of bold individuals who said, we're going to build this and meet us where we are.
00:16:46.000And I believe that that has a lot to do with our success and why we've got so many folks at the table ready to link arms with us to do this work.
00:16:53.840What are some of the ways that Spill is doing things differently and in service of doing exactly that?
00:16:59.860Well, let me just let me just qualify for the people who don't know.
00:17:04.520Spill is visual conversation that moves at the speed of culture. And on the app, through memes and visual media and conversation, we're building a space that's brewing with creators who are not just creating culture, but also being recognized for the culture that they are creating.
00:17:22.200We are essentially proving that cultural and technical competence can be symbiotic, right?
00:17:30.180And so that's everything from, you know, the technology that we're using to keep people safe on the platform, using large language model AI trained by Black and queer folks, right?
00:17:39.940Essentially a more culturally competent version of like a chat GBT, which allows, again, for people to show up authentically as their best selves, but also keeps, you know, folks safe from people who have learned how to move around moderation systems and use different language.
00:17:56.980Right. It means that we are elevating the value of the content and the culture and what it means to access the culture.
00:18:07.080And so, you know, clicks, likes, and views in the Spilliverse are valued much higher
00:18:12.200than they are on any other platform, and we have a lot of justifications for why that's
00:21:37.820While the labor of Black folks generates engagement, not to mention money for the people who run online platforms, all too often, we aren't seeing any of the cash.
00:21:50.360She created the expression on fleek on social media and didn't see a dime from it, even after it was adopted or taken by everyone from Arby's to Bath and Body Works.
00:22:01.800Law professor K.J. Green argues that both online and offline,
00:22:06.740Black public creativity has always been rendered public domain0.98
00:22:10.560in ways that can leave Black creators getting screwed.0.99
00:22:14.180Some platforms like TikTok have tried to mitigate this by establishing creator funds0.97
00:22:18.560meant to pay people out who drive engagement on social media platforms.
00:22:23.180But Kenya says Spill is doing things differently
00:22:25.500by building the platform with an eye toward crediting and compensating creators fairly from the start.
00:22:31.140Something that you mentioned that I think is so important that I want to come back to because it comes up a lot on the show is this idea of what happens when marginalized creators make something on a platform and then it just gets taken without credit or attribution or compensation.
00:22:49.160And we've actually looked into some of the academic research around this where it seems to suggest that when something is created on the Internet by a Black person, there is a dominant understanding that it, quote, kind of belongs to everyone.
00:23:03.120And, like, who cares who created it? Who cares who gets credit? It's the Internet. It doesn't matter.0.61
00:23:07.640But then when those same things are created by non-Black creators, they are seen as much less sort of communal.0.82
00:23:14.400And it's very interesting to me how platforms can kind of aid to this lack of equality around who gets ownership online.
00:23:24.260It may sound like we're just complaining, like, oh, I want my attention or I want my credit.
00:23:30.960Like, people have really seen meaningful come-ups off of creating something on the Internet.
00:23:35.860And the way that our communities are just sort of shut out of that oftentimes and it's seen as just OK really doesn't sit right with me.
00:23:45.080And I've never really thought about the way that platforms themselves, the way these platforms are designed, can actually contribute to that.
00:23:52.560Yeah, it's deep. And I mean, we got to listen. We can't act like this framework doesn't already exist.
00:23:59.480We talk about intellectual property all the time, right? There was a time in our history when Black folks in America held the most number of trademarks and patents than anybody, any other ethnic demographic, right? Like we know what this means, right? There is historical precedent for what happens when we own the things that we put forward.
00:24:20.880So, you know, in many ways, you got to know where we've been to know where we're going, right? And to understand how we got to where we are right now. So much like we saw in the music industry in the 90s with hip hop and, you know, a very clear transition of ownership, you know, when these brands like, you know, Combs Global, before it was Combs Global, right? Bad Boy, you know, started to emerge, right?
00:24:49.640And, you know, folks started to run their own record labels and get into the distribution game. And, you know, we saw a shift in what happened to music, what happened to creativity. You can put this moment in time for social and what Spill is doing akin to that. This is the first time that we've really had, you know, spaces like this and an opportunity like this, and we're ready to capitalize on it.
00:25:16.180And that's I would have never put that together, but I think you're right. And I think that the proof of concept when Spill was first coming together, that it's time. I think people are ready to acknowledge that it is the most marginalized folks who are the ones who make social media platforms what they are and that, you know, there are plenty of platforms. If it wasn't for marginalized people, they wouldn't be what they were like. They wouldn't be fun places where people kept showing up.
00:25:41.900Bridget, be clear, though, right? Like, and I have to check myself on this all the time. You know, this that little that little word global in my title checks me every time because the don't let the American domestic minority lexicon fool you, Bridget.
00:25:57.960Like, together, we are the global majority. And the truth is that by 2030, America is going to be more brown than it is not. And so, you know, we are seeking, and my personal goal is for that the creators on Spill to essentially become their own media companies, right?
00:26:16.820I think this is the way that we jump and expand our cultural influence and monetization opportunities outside of just one-time creator and affiliate program models, right?
00:26:27.560And really start talking about how do we build continuing sustaining ecosystems for what we already do naturally, right?
00:26:38.420Wow, that is a far cry from some other platforms where they, you know, people use the word users. And it's like very clear that these other places are just trying to mine you for whatever you have and take whatever you have from you.
00:26:54.280And it's like a completely, a completely, it feels like a flip of the script to say, actually, we want the folks who show up to our platform to get something out of it, to be building something out of it, to be compensated, to be credited, all of that.
00:27:07.860We want that to be baked into the experience of showing up on Spill.
00:28:11.820I think a lot of people, myself included, have felt kind of burnt by platforms in the past where, you know, I'm thinking of the experience of Clubhouse when we were all, you know, quarantining in the early days of the pandemic, where it felt like a platform that was kind of centering Black voices and Black folks.
00:28:31.240And then when it maybe hit a certain a certain peak, that seemed to be all but abandoned.
00:28:36.820And so for folks who maybe feel like they've been burned in the past by that dynamic and platforms, what do you say to those folks about joining Spill?
00:28:44.540Is that some is that a dynamic that you're familiar with?
00:28:46.560And what would you say to somebody who is who is worried about that showing up to a new platform?
00:28:51.800Girl, from personal experience, I have been, you know, taken advantage of in influencer programs.
00:29:00.640I know what it feels like. I know what it looks like. I think that's what also informs my position
00:29:09.020and the position of, you know, my colleagues and teammates with Spill, right? Our leadership looks
00:29:16.180like me and you. That's not going to change. You know, our team is reflective of the teams that
00:29:24.600we are centering with this app in every way. And that's not going to change. Our terms of service
00:29:35.640and our community guidelines are super clear. And as we grow, they're only going to get more
00:29:41.140and more refined. And so, you know, I'd invite everybody to look at what we are saying so that
00:29:48.040we say what we mean and mean what we say and hold us accountable to that. It's an invitation.
00:29:54.600For those many reasons, I can say that I can't imagine a world where, you know, anything like that happens.
00:30:04.320Spill is a company that is founded on and centered around these particular principles to make sure that marginalized communities and creators receive proper attribution to make sure that brands know how to step to us correctly.
00:30:26.440And if they need some help, let us, you know, bring them to the table and make sure that they know, you know, how to come correct.
00:30:36.060And, you know, to make sure that we are treating this group of tastemakers as the stakeholders that we are.
00:30:44.120So that's not going to happen. But, you know, the best thing that I can say is come along for the ride and continue to hold us accountable and we'll show you.
00:30:52.840When folks show up to Spill, what are you hoping it feels like?
00:30:56.140Like, what's the vibe that y'all are trying to curate for the platform?
00:30:58.700There was a creator, Cool Urban Hippie, who posted a picture of the great migration photo.
00:31:07.760He said, this is what Spill feels like right now.
00:31:10.740Phil Lewis posted an image of the Rugrats as Moses leading folks across the sea.
00:31:22.800Kev on stage posted that it feels like a huge cookout and family reunion.
00:31:33.000But so, you know, I want folks to feel like, you know, you're walking into your, you know, cousin's backyard party where, you know, you know people and you're ready to meet new people that you don't know.
00:31:48.220And everybody feels like family after the first 30 seconds. And, you know, by the time you've walked through the threshold, you got a plate in one hand and a sip in the other.
00:31:56.660And the DJ is, you know, got you mobbing and that's it. You know, that's what we want it to feel like.
00:32:01.920And, you know, the feedback that we've gotten thus far is that, you know, mission accomplished.
00:38:20.420We've actually seen some interesting, you know, folks being very careful and selective about who they give their golden ticket invites out to on Spill.
00:38:30.360You know, that's been some interesting behavior to watch folks be really protective and selective of the space already.
00:38:38.660You know, we hear that people want the features and that excites us because our team, we know our product roadmap.
00:38:46.440Everybody else is going to find it out in real time. And the stuff that we've got coming is very, very, very exciting. And it's going to just open up a whole world of opportunity and creativity to fulfill our mission. And as we've stated it, you know, again, I think it's just about us reminding ourselves that we come to the table with decades of experience, all of us combined.
00:39:13.340And this work didn't just start, you know, when we all took our position here. I'm bringing my, you know, experience, Fonz, our CEO, bringing his breadth of experience. I mean, I don't know if there's anybody more talented and more perfectly positioned to lead us in this endeavor than him.
00:39:36.660You know, somebody who was, you know, the outgoing social and editorial head for that former Bluebird app and, you know, Clio award winning, Webby award winning, Ken Lyon award winning.
00:39:49.360Come on. Right. We've got some of the best builders and technologists behind us.
00:39:54.740So this is an A team, y'all. Right. Like this is this is a really talented team who's bringing their life's work to this space.
00:40:02.240And we are being met with a hell of a lot of support across the way.
00:40:10.600So we've got what we need to be successful.
00:40:13.640And our biggest ask for our community is, you know, come on Spill, have a good time,
00:40:19.140trust us and or allow us to earn your trust.
00:40:23.820And together, we're going to we're going to do this.
00:40:26.780We're in this moment that feels like the future of technology is kind of happening right now.
00:40:31.080What do you see on the horizon as it pertains to technology or platforms or what would you like to see in this moment?
00:40:37.360Like, you know, what do you think is next for us in the space?
00:40:43.300Spill is next. You know, what people experience right now on platform is just a drop in the bucket of what we have in store.
00:40:50.940There are tons of not just features, but really interesting partnerships that we're going to be bringing to the table, again, blending the IRL and the URL in the advantage of people who are Black, Brown, queer, and other marginalized groups, right?
00:41:10.860So we've never seen that before. So I don't want to look past that opportunity right now. I want to stay present in that this is the space that we are cultivating and curating and stepping into right now. And tremendous excitement fills my spirit when I think about what we've yet to do and what we can do.
00:41:30.960Okay, so I know you probably can't answer this, but I promised my producer that I would ask.
00:41:38.400I already know you're not going to be able to answer, but do you have any sense, any sense at all of when it might be open to everybody and not be invite only?
00:41:47.640The answer is probably, I can't, you can't say, but.
00:42:06.840It's going to be a really big quarter for us. It's going to be a really big quarter for us. So get on Spill if you're not already. And I'd be happy to extend a special exclusive for your listeners. I'm going to drop an invite code for y'all.
00:42:21.700So for the listeners of the There Are No Girls on the Internet podcast, please accept this invitation to join the Spilliverse.0.61
00:42:29.920You can use the code SPILLMOB, that's S-P-I-L-L-M-O-B, as your invite code to get on platform.
00:44:03.100So as people are showing up on Spill, you know, given that it's still in beta, what
00:44:07.320kind of relationship do you hope to have with folks just trying out the platform?
00:44:10.880So we are building a reciprocal relationship with our community in Spill. And that's never really been done before at this level either. And what that means specifically is an invitation for the community to give us feedback. And that's exactly what this beta stage allows us to do, right?
00:44:31.480It means, you know, communicate with us, not just help us find the bugs, but let us know what you'd like to see.
00:44:36.820And I, you know, I'm going to be starting to engage with our creators on a much more, you know, one to one level to really understand what types of, you know, activities do you guys want to be engaging in on and off platform?
00:44:53.360Specifically, when you create over here, what would make you want to create over here?
00:44:57.280We really want to build this space for the creators who, again, are driving culture and having to figure out how to move around weird algorithms on other platforms.
00:45:09.120We want to make sure that you feel centered and that the tech that you engage with on Spill feels like it was designed for you because that's what we're doing.
00:45:17.220So we are inviting everybody to partake in this beta stage with us and give us this feedback in real time so that when we do make it to the promised land, we can look around and know exactly how we got here, linked left and arm with our cousins who helped us along the way.
00:45:36.320I'm so glad you added that. And it goes back to what you were saying about, you know, not everybody has had the experience of, you know, beta testing something.
00:45:44.920And so if you've never had a platform in beta before or shown up to a platform in beta, this could be your first time to really see what that's about and really, really help build the platform that you want to see.
00:45:55.560So I would urge listeners to really take you up on that.
00:45:57.760Yeah. And brands, too. You know, don't sleep. Don't sleep. Brands would need to make their way to spill. Start engaging with the Spilliverse because we are curating it very intentionally.
00:46:11.220like I've been saying, a group of folks who we know and they know set the trends. But to have
00:46:18.800us all gathered in one space at one time, celebs and notables mixed with content creators, mixed
00:46:25.840with journalists, mixed with public figures, mixed with everyday folks, all in one beautiful gumbo
00:48:38.260Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:48:44.160New school year, same beautiful mess.1.00
00:48:47.500Good Mom's Bad Choices is back to talk back-to-school realness.1.00
00:48:51.500The guilt, the giggles, and the choices no other show is brave enough to admit.0.97
00:48:56.560Mom life is calling and I have my last motherfucking volleyball tournament of Irie's Club Team Volleyball.0.95
00:49:03.480And I can't wait for the thing to be over because I don't like participating and having to drive far distances.0.94
00:49:12.800Shout out to the moms and my mom who made it happen.
00:49:16.000Listen to Good Mom's Bad Choices from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.