There Are No Girls on the Internet - September 15, 2023


Virginia Dem candidate’s sex livestreams shouldn’t be a big deal; NSFW AI; Parents of trans kids speak up about KOSA; Can AI Drake win a Grammy？ – NEWS ROUNDUP

Ashton Kutcher and the anti-trafficking grift Ready to leave Twitter？ Try Spill instead!

Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 3 minutes

Words per minute

174.85

Word count

11,063

Sentence count

366

Harmful content

Misogyny

19

sentences flagged

Toxicity

29

sentences flagged

Hate speech

19

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
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00:00:34.940 I survived nine months in captivity,
00:00:38.460 and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.
00:00:43.680 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.
00:00:47.300 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable,
00:00:51.020 abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:00:54.640 These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:00:58.680 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:10.380 There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.
00:01:18.500 I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.
00:01:21.220 i am here with my producer joey joey thank you for being here hi bridget thanks for having me
00:01:29.160 joey how is your week going um it's been all right uh i could not talk for the first half
00:01:35.360 of this week which is not fun uh but my voice is back which is great i can go in good sense then so
00:01:41.340 we'll see where it goes well i'm glad it's back it is sounding smooth and great thank you let's
00:01:47.380 use that voice to talk about some of these new stories from the internet that y'all might have
00:01:50.680 missed. So if you listen to this week's There Are No Girls on the Internet, when you heard
00:01:54.440 all about Ashton Kutcher's anti-trafficking organization, Thorne. So if you listen to
00:01:58.960 that episode, then you know that social media platforms do not often allow adult content
00:02:04.180 from humans. Because of legislation like SESTA-FOSTA, social media platforms really crack down
00:02:09.860 even harder than they already were on anyone posting content that involves sexuality on
00:02:14.720 their platforms because of how that legislation really broadly interprets sexual content.
00:02:19.980 Basically, you can't post anything related to sexuality and, like, that definition is very broad.
00:02:27.140 And it just sort of leaves up to the platforms, like, what they think might be considered sexual content or not.
00:02:32.280 So anything that people post that even obliquely references sexual content, very often it's closely monitored and gets taken down.
00:02:40.000 What's this? Wait, this was, remember the, like, Tumblr porn ban, like, a couple years back?
00:02:45.540 Oh, yes. I think about it all the time.
00:02:47.420 like that was because of this right this was like yeah yeah yeah which is so funny because i i don't
00:02:53.200 think tumblr's been relevant since then which i i don't know no tumblr has not been relevant since
00:02:59.220 then and it really had a broad like broad consequences for the internet right like it
00:03:06.380 completely restructured the internet landscape i have argued this is just like my take so like
00:03:12.100 take that for what it's worth i have argued that i think that was the beginning and a couple of
00:03:17.000 other things, but Tumblr banning sexual content and adult content was the beginning of sort of
00:03:23.140 that kind of existential question of like, what is the internet for being answered with like,
00:03:27.620 well, it's to make money, right? And so if like, if Tumblr has to ban sexual or adult content in
00:03:34.020 order to make money, then it's like, well, is this is the internet really for community building
00:03:38.580 or connecting with each other or finding information about identity? No, it's about
00:03:43.260 making corporations money. Yeah. So huge implications for the entire restructuring
00:03:49.140 of the internet that we still feel today. So even though social media companies,
00:03:53.880 thanks to legislation like SESTA-FOSTA, really crack down on and closely monitor sexual content,
00:03:59.280 that might actually not be the case when it comes to AI-generated sexual content. Because NBC did
00:04:04.560 an investigation that found that startups are running explicit advertisements for AI-generated
00:04:09.240 adult content on TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook. So this investigation found that about 35 app
00:04:15.240 developers are running sexually explicit ads on apps owned by all of those social media companies.
00:04:20.400 The app developers are running more than 1,000 ads in all, many of them easily discoverable and
00:04:25.360 viewable from Meta's online library of ads, which the public has access to. There were 14 app
00:04:30.580 developers running hundreds more sexually provocative ads on TikTok, NBC News found.
00:04:35.120 This is a little bit weird. For some reason, a lot of the ads use memes that include like popular children's television characters. Like I saw one ad that was like Cookie Monster making a face and it's like that face when you don't know that you could be having a virtual girlfriend, a virtual AI girlfriend who meets all your needs.
00:04:59.420 and i was like why would cookie monster want a virtual cookie monster is very clear about what
00:05:03.520 he wants is cookies it's not an ai generated virtual girlfriend i think it's just cookies
00:05:08.480 yeah no that's so weird you know what this is making me think of too is like remember all those
00:05:15.080 like which i guess you still have but there's the the whole thing about like the weird pop-up ads
00:05:19.480 that'll come up that are like especially for like video games like online games where there's a lot
00:05:23.800 of like video-aimed characters like you know very sexually provocative kind of things and it I it's
00:05:31.920 interesting this is sort of the direction damn yeah like memes like children's tv show memes
00:05:37.500 that's that's that's interesting it's exactly that right like oftentimes they have like and like
00:05:43.200 like kind of teenager looking young women in like anime style so I definitely think that for 0.97
00:05:50.960 whatever reason they are gearing it toward younger audiences because of the heavy use of like
00:05:55.860 spongebob and cookie monster and anime girls but i don't know i think i mean i hope it's i i don't
00:06:03.480 know i'm willing to say i don't think that's totally geared towards younger audiences i think
00:06:07.920 there's uh unfortunately some probably older adults uh adult men for the most part they're
00:06:15.480 trying to get with that kind of stuff too but yeah wow that's that's interesting it's
00:06:20.860 It's very interesting.
00:06:22.580 So NBC reported that this is all part of a larger push to mine people who might be interested
00:06:28.180 in AI-generated content in general, but also adult content.
00:06:32.300 NBC says, the marketing push is part of an AI gold rush in which app developers, most
00:06:37.260 of them based abroad, are mining customers who are interested in sexual or romantic connections
00:06:41.900 with digital characters.
00:06:43.240 It's part of a larger movement to capitalize on the surge of interest in AI, following
00:06:47.400 the popularity of tech startup OpenAI's ChatGPT products, which reset expectations for what AI
00:06:53.020 chatbots are capable of. So these developers are basically like, oh, well, if an AI chatbot can
00:06:58.280 write your term paper or write a legal brief, maybe it could also be your romantic partner
00:07:05.880 or your sexual partner. And maybe there are people who are interested in that. And let's
00:07:09.500 early on mine who those people are so we can sell this kind of content to them.
00:07:15.520 yeah I it's like you know I'm not surprised like I feel like this is always sort of gonna be like
00:07:21.000 but there's some I can't remember what it is there's some like thing that's like everything
00:07:26.360 on the internet like there's some porn version of it or whatever there's like yeah which I like
00:07:31.160 it's it's not surprising like that that's just sort of been where like humanity and the internet
00:07:36.180 is gone. But yeah, AI girlfriends, I guess. AI girlfriends. And so what's also kind of
00:07:45.420 interesting about this is this push has also hurt real human sex workers who are already surveilled
00:07:51.000 and targeted for what they post online. Sex workers are not allowed to make money off of
00:07:54.940 their image, but some tech pro who's creating a similar AI image is. That's from Carolina R.,
00:08:01.180 a research fellow at Northumbria University and the Center for Digital Citizens in the United
00:08:05.420 kingdom yeah that that seems like the problem because i don't know i mean if you want to have
00:08:10.220 a romantic relationship with like an ai thing or a fake you know robot that's fine whatever you do
00:08:15.880 you i don't care but like sex workers are still criminalized for doing the same work i mean i
00:08:23.140 think you're you're like apprehension and sort of i just it just feels not great to think that
00:08:31.040 a human sex worker, sex workers are already marginalized online, is further criminalized
00:08:36.960 and surveilled for posting their likeness on social media platforms. But if some tech
00:08:42.800 bro wanted to make money and generate revenue off of something similar, they could. And
00:08:48.240 they might not be as surveilled as closely, certainly would not be criminalized for it 0.62
00:08:55.280 the way that sex workers are. And so I think it raises some questions about equity and
00:08:59.540 about, you know, the, like, who is allowed to do what in this new sort of technology facilitated
00:09:07.320 world that we live in. Yeah, that's so that I, there's, there's so many concerning things that
00:09:14.260 can come out of this, and I'm sure you're gonna explain more of that. Yeah. So one thing to note
00:09:19.620 is that, as you were kind of alluding to before, these AI generated characters are traditionally
00:09:25.180 sexy kind of looking young women and it's clear that they are targeting men in these ads which
00:09:30.940 adds to this double standard that we see a lot in technology and on social media where sexual
00:09:36.060 content that is geared toward heterosexual men is kind of okay on social media platforms. R says
00:09:43.240 that she believes that this all reflects a gender bias slant. Social media platforms freely allow
00:09:48.400 sex-related ads only if the intended audience is men. Hundreds of ads appear to come close to
00:09:54.460 crossing the line of what Meta or TikTok would say that they would not allow in advertising.
00:09:58.940 Now, Meta's advertising standards say that ads must not contain adult content, including
00:10:03.820 depictions of people in explicit or suggestive positions or activities that are overtly sexual
00:10:08.400 or sexually provocative. They also say that ads cannot focus on, quote, sexual pleasure.
00:10:14.200 But here is where the gender bias aspect comes in. We've talked about this in another newscast,
00:10:19.360 this report from the Center for Intimacy Justice that found, for instance, that Facebook ads
00:10:23.400 allowing things like Viagra are fine, but then Facebook rejects ads related to the sexual health
00:10:29.340 of anybody who is not a cisgender man, right? So like the ads for pelvic pain or postpartum issues
00:10:36.160 are rejected because Facebook says, oh, well, those relate to sexual pleasure. But then sexual
00:10:43.560 wellness or sexual health ads that are for cis men, those are something else. Like it's like, 0.68
00:10:49.080 like whose sexual now, whose sexual wellness do you consider, you know, about pleasure and thus
00:10:55.980 disallowed? And whose do you consider like, oh, well, that's a health or a medical issue. So
00:11:00.220 that's fine. Yeah, that's, that's so messed up. I, that makes me so mad, especially, I mean,
00:11:05.160 it's, it's so obvious. There's so many, you know, we could have a whole conversation about like
00:11:10.660 gender bias and like the medical system in general, but it's, it's so hard as somebody with
00:11:15.840 somebody with a uterus to get your your problems taken seriously your medical health your your
00:11:22.080 medical problems taken seriously particularly when it comes to like sexual health yeah and and
00:11:27.480 some of it has nothing to do with sex some of it has it's just you know the organs that are in your
00:11:32.520 body there's also this is ironic because i just i keep getting hulu ads for like male health
00:11:39.800 supplements in particular and a lot of it has to do with like uh erectile dysfunction and stuff i
00:11:44.960 don't need that because i don't have those parts i don't know why hulu thinks that i do but it's
00:11:52.240 it's it's weird i this i the dots are connecting because i do keep getting these ads and i'm like
00:11:59.180 why i this you should be putting your your advertising money somewhere else apparently
00:12:05.100 i don't know that's so yeah somebody somebody is doing some frivolous spending with their ad
00:12:09.780 on that one. But it's interesting because I don't get ads targeted, I mean, ads targeted to
00:12:19.520 women's and non-cis men sexual wellness products. So if you're non-binary, a lot of platforms don't
00:12:28.580 allow for anything that's related to what you might be looking for in terms of sexual wellness
00:12:33.300 or sexual health. Yet, it is very clear that somebody has made a decision about whose sexual
00:12:39.160 wellness is like quote valid and whose isn't and it's very clear that in the is bucket is cis men
00:12:46.800 and those are the products that you are allowed to advertise on social media platforms patriarchy is
00:12:52.100 real you know it is real it is insidious and also it is wasting the ad spends of these companies
00:12:58.920 every time i get one of those ads i'm like i i kind of work in media i get kind of how this works
00:13:05.040 i'm like what what is the point of this if you're collecting all my data where you're not using it
00:13:09.140 correctly apparently right it's so weird meta said our policies prohibit ads containing adult
00:13:16.220 content that is overly suggestive or sexually provocative whether it's ai generated or not
00:13:20.560 our policies and enforcement are designed to adapt in this highly adversarial space
00:13:24.540 and we actively monitor monitor new trends in ai generated content but they did not answer nbc's
00:13:30.980 questions about if that is the case how these ads got through in the first place meta only removed
00:13:36.880 them after NBC reached out for the article. So I guess the question really is, why are human sex
00:13:42.720 workers or humans who want to post anything related to sexuality cracked down on and surveilled
00:13:48.660 so strictly when it kind of seems like AI-generated content that is sexual is enforced less so? I
00:13:55.740 don't know the answer to that question, but it definitely seems like social media platforms
00:13:59.100 might be putting a little more scrutiny on humans than they are when that content is AI-generated.
00:14:04.940 yeah this is such a like extreme version too of the way that like quote unquote like female bodies
00:14:15.600 women's bodies are are so hyper sexualized and so like it's so normalized that there's something 1.00
00:14:22.800 to be consumed and something to be like you know yeah something to be consumed we're like yeah 1.00
00:14:29.260 again if it if it were the opposite and i'm sure if there were like ads with again quote unquote
00:14:35.420 male bodies not trying to enforce the gender binary here but like if those were being used
00:14:40.840 it probably would have been cracked down on way sooner or way more harshly uh but yeah it's it's 0.67
00:14:47.140 it is scary it is scary to see that like ai is kind of one of one of the other ways it's just
00:14:53.100 kind of like messing with these power structures is that it's like like the sex workers that
00:14:59.260 would be benefiting from the labor that they're doing, at least to some extent, and it is labor 0.89
00:15:05.180 that they're doing, that can be pushed aside so easily. And that kind of commodification can be
00:15:12.280 recreated in a way that you don't actually have to compensate workers. And it's almost like all
00:15:17.380 of this is stemming from the same problem, but you know. Very well put. And yeah, I just think
00:15:24.420 As you put it so aptly, it's interesting to me how, I guess, like, quote, like, the female form, like, again, not to, like, reinforce that binary, but, like, what we understand online as, like, quote, like, the female form is only really allowed when it is being consumed.
00:15:44.840 When, like, it's not a sex worker posting their image online to get compensated for that, you know, in an exchange of, like, services for money, absolutely not.
00:15:57.000 If it's a tech pro who is creating this fantasy AI chatbot girlfriend or something for other men to consume, it feels like that is in a completely different sphere than when someone has agency over their sexuality and is using that in a way that they want you to compensate from it.
00:16:16.340 It's just very interesting to me and how much power platforms have in determining that. What is and is not okay? What is and is not allowed? What is and is not, quote, sexual content? What sexual content is or is not valid? It's so interesting to me how much power platforms have to shape these things. And I would argue way too much power.
00:16:39.100 yeah final note i guess i i keep thinking of what i always say one of my favorite comedies
00:16:47.180 um ex machina uh which is a great movie about you know the tech bro hubris uh i would say
00:16:55.040 i'm not gonna spoil the ending but if you've seen the ending of that movie it's oh my god it's we i
00:16:59.660 almost feel it please if you haven't seen it please watch it i recreate the ending in my
00:17:04.980 household all the time as a joke not not really if you've seen the movie you know what i'm talking
00:17:08.420 about but like that is a that is an often referenced movie in my home i know i like and
00:17:13.640 again it is it is one of those movies where it's it's the extremes of this and it is like it is
00:17:18.300 genuinely terrifying i think to watch and see the extremes this but again the ending i think
00:17:22.900 perfectly ties it together is a perfect sort of like good for her narrative uh as i like to say
00:17:28.080 uh and you know maybe maybe maybe reality will reflect art we'll see i guess oh well we can only
00:17:35.960 hope complete complete side note complete like left turn no signal have you seen the movie fire
00:17:42.660 island on hulu yes do you remember the part where they're playing the game heads up it's like the
00:17:48.180 best scene in the movie and he's trying to get the clue for um marissa tomei and he's like uh
00:17:54.520 alexandra vikander like alexandra vikander you don't remember marissa tomei but you remember
00:18:01.540 alexandra vikander she was great and ex machina it's like my favorite scene anyway this is this
00:18:08.100 is like all the rails great movie another great movie two equally uh you know cultural masterpieces
00:18:16.840 oh that's a good way to put it
00:18:18.340 let's take a quick break
00:18:24.660 We'll be right back.
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00:19:15.760 When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.
00:19:21.020 I survived and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed
00:19:27.000 them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low taunting
00:19:34.540 voice next to my ear saying shut up don't say anything. Every week I'm with survivors who
00:19:42.160 live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up without a doubt he was going to hurt me. I
00:19:48.960 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.
00:19:56.320 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:20:00.300 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.
00:20:03.740 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:20:06.880 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:20:18.960 And we're back.
00:20:23.560 Okay, so speaking of legislation that can powerfully reshape the internet, I have a
00:20:30.040 little bit of news on the Kids Online Safety Act front. And that is that this week, 100 parents
00:20:35.500 of trans youth wrote a letter to senators and all organizations who support the Kids Online
00:20:40.120 Safety Act saying that it would make their kids less safe. The letter is, the whole letter is
00:20:44.440 worth a read, but here's a good bit of it. They write, we hold deep sympathy for parents whose
00:20:49.740 kids have been harmed by big tech social media companies and their abusive business practices.
00:20:54.300 Our kids have also been harmed by these companies' greed, their addictive design,
00:20:58.880 their intrusive surveillance, their failure to address online hate, bullying, and abuse.
00:21:03.220 But legislation like the Kids Online Safety Act would make our kids less safe, not more safe.
00:21:08.220 It would grant extraordinary new power to right-wing state attorneys general to dictate which content
00:21:12.760 young users can see on social media cutting our kids off from life-saving online resources and
00:21:17.900 community. These are the same attorneys general that are actively working to ban gender-affirming
00:21:21.960 healthcare that saves kids' lives, criminalizing drag performances, and label families that accept
00:21:27.340 our children as groomers and child abusers. COSA would also incentivize big tech platforms
00:21:32.840 to engage in even more intrusive data collection, which disproportionately puts trans kids and their
00:21:37.860 families at risk. And as more and more states strip us of our rights and criminalize our kids'
00:21:42.320 healthcare, education, and very existence. The whole letter is definitely worth a read. I really
00:21:50.140 applaud these parents for sending this letter and for sticking up for their kids in this way.
00:21:55.300 I will say, these parents are not wrong for being concerned about this. It's kind of one of those
00:22:02.520 things where it's like when somebody tells you who they are, believe them. I feel like some of
00:22:07.120 the organizations who are behind this legislation and who are supportive of this legislation,
00:22:12.320 have really been, I would argue, pretty clear about how they feel about trans folks and
00:22:19.660 how they are planning to use this legislation as a way to further censor LGBTQ content and
00:22:26.080 label that as a threat to youth. The same thing that we were talking before about how
00:22:30.460 when legislation that is about changing the internet to protect kids, oftentimes they will
00:22:36.160 label content harmful, but like have a pretty broad definition of what that harm is, just
00:22:42.020 leaving it up to platforms or attorneys general to decide what is harmful. And so Family Policy
00:22:47.060 Alliance, a conservative group, asked Senator Marsha Blackburn, who is one of the senators
00:22:51.200 who introduced the Kids Online Safety Act, about what she thought were the top issues impacting
00:22:56.620 us today. And here's what she had to say. Protecting minor children from the transgender
00:23:04.240 and this culture and that influence. And I would add to that, watching what's happening on social 1.00
00:23:11.260 media. And I've got the Kids Online Safety Act that I think we're going to end up getting through
00:23:17.980 probably this summer. This would put a duty of care and responsibility on the social media
00:23:26.080 platforms. And this is where children are being indoctrinated. They're hearing things at school
00:23:33.640 and then they're getting onto YouTube to watch a video and all of a sudden this comes to them.
00:23:41.260 and they're on Snapchat or they're on Instagram and they click on something and the next thing
00:23:48.320 you know, they're being inundated with it. Parents need to be watching this. Teachers
00:23:53.020 need to be watching and protecting our children and making certain that they are not exposed to
00:24:00.160 things that they are emotionally not mature enough to handle. See, my immediate response
00:24:07.380 is just like rage too it is like a combination of like this is the it's enraging every time 1.00
00:24:15.420 every time I hear the transgender I'm like yeah what like I that's so the transgender 1.00
00:24:27.200 the singular transgender it is oh my god I don't even yeah nothing says that like you
00:24:34.040 just from the way that she refers to trans folks it's like pretty it's like pretty clear from like
00:24:39.360 even intonation like what what she thinks like how she feels like I said like it's like yeah
00:24:46.080 anybody who watches that clip I feel like it's clear how Marsha Blackburn feels I don't I don't
00:24:50.980 feel like she's making any making it confusing for us to understand what she's what she's trying
00:24:56.160 to say and how she feels right it's again with this legislation it's so it makes me so angry and 0.94
00:25:03.280 i i try to you know and this is the thing that i i think sucks about this kind of stuff and sucks
00:25:09.360 about a lot of this stuff that's coming from the right it's like there's no way to like argue at 0.52
00:25:14.380 them that it's like this is wrong and i and i think again it's the thing that sucks is the
00:25:18.760 majority of of the everyday people that are going to see this and be like i support it it's because
00:25:22.900 they they just see the the you know headline of this is gonna make the internet safer for kids
00:25:29.000 and not actually looking into what they're saying but it is so obvious whenever they open their
00:25:33.560 mouths to speak about this that it is it has nothing to do with keeping kids safe you're
00:25:38.240 making it you're you're arguably creating a not even arguably you are creating a less safe
00:25:44.940 environment for kids because like yeah if you're creating an environment where it is it is not
00:25:50.960 safe for kids to come out to their parents it is not safe for kids to like express their true
00:25:56.020 identity that's dangerous that is going to lead to kids dying it's just it's so infuriating and 1.00
00:26:05.180 at the same time it's like the hell like you're such a fucking idiot I like I don't know what 1.00
00:26:11.260 else to say it's like yeah again the transgender indoctrination like a lot of these people are 1.00
00:26:18.860 also again it's like the Christian nationalist right where it's like no y'all are the ones 0.99
00:26:23.000 that do that shit you're only the ones indoctrinating like I don't I've never had 0.99
00:26:27.080 somebody try to convince me that I'm trans or queer or whatever it's usually the opposite 1.00
00:26:32.640 actually again it is so mask off it is so they're not even like they're not hiding they're not
00:26:38.920 hiding what the intentions of this bill are and and that is the frustrating part about all of this
00:26:43.120 but yeah this legislation I mean I I really like went through an evolution where I was like
00:26:48.260 because I for the longest time was like oh we need to do something like you know I know
00:26:51.980 how much tech companies harm kids and like when this legislation was introduced I was like oh
00:26:58.180 maybe they're doing something and it all it took was like sitting I basically urge people to like
00:27:04.620 look and see what is actually in the legislation like it took me sitting down and like going
00:27:10.480 through it and being like wait a minute this is not good I don't think this is going to serve
00:27:15.660 its intended purpose and I can pretty clearly just like with SESTA-FOSTA I can pretty clearly see
00:27:20.880 what this kind of legislation could lead to, on top of people like Marsha Blackburn and the
00:27:27.660 Heritage Foundation openly saying what they are planning on using it for, which, spoiler alert,
00:27:32.960 it's like cracking down on LGBTQ content. Yeah. And Senator Blackburn, after this interview,
00:27:39.300 her legislative director was like, no, the senator was taken out of context. First of all,
00:27:44.940 I don't know how just being asked a question and then the whole answer unedited from beginning to
00:27:50.500 end is what you see. I don't know what context was taken out or misreported, but you just heard
00:28:01.780 her entire answer unedited. That was what she said. Her legislative director was like, oh,
00:28:07.500 the senator was discussing two different separate things, I guess, quote, transgender indoctrination,
00:28:14.840 and then the Kids Online Safety Act.
00:28:18.660 I don't buy it.
00:28:19.640 I think that they're trying to backpedal.
00:28:22.880 I think that she said,
00:28:24.100 I don't think that she misspoke.
00:28:25.300 Her legislative director said
00:28:26.540 that she was taken out of context
00:28:27.980 and that she misspoke.
00:28:29.760 I don't think either of those is true.
00:28:31.240 I think that she said exactly
00:28:32.280 what she meant to say.
00:28:33.500 I think that people understood it
00:28:35.120 as she meant it, as intended.
00:28:37.000 And then when she was like,
00:28:37.900 oh, wait, this actually gives away
00:28:39.700 why we are pushing for this,
00:28:41.740 then tried to backpedal.
00:28:42.900 I think that it's clear. It seems pretty clear to me what she intended to say. And I think it was this. I think how we're interpreting it is the way that she meant it.
00:28:51.680 Yeah, it's you know, it's interesting. I think I think it's a it's a clear sign of a how unpopular this sort of blatant transphobia is on a national stage, but also like what I like what the strategy is, because I feel like this keeps happening where we're right wing politicians will say explicitly transphobic, explicitly like horrible shit about the trans community. 0.98
00:29:19.320 And then they'll come out or their spokesperson will come out and be like, that's not what I meant. I meant blah, blah, blah. 0.96
00:29:25.840 Because again, again, it's there's like been studies that have shown that this kind of legislation isn't popular on, you know, like transphobia isn't isn't the dominant ideology of like the U.S., even though like the right wing wants to paint it as this is just sort of what most people think.
00:29:43.600 But yeah, so they have to hide behind this like, oh, I miss it was taken off context. It's about protecting kids. As you talked about in the episode earlier this week, it's scary to see the kind of things that people can get away with under the label of just protecting kids. And that is always, again, it's terrible that this has kind of gotten to the point where it is like this, but it's kind of a red flag now.
00:30:07.620 never something is labeled as being about protecting kids look into it because you never
00:30:11.920 know what it's actually going to be everybody can agree that like yeah we should protect kids
00:30:15.840 but yeah it's it's what does that actually mean i completely agree and i do think that
00:30:22.480 this legislation and i i'm guilty of it too because it took me a little bit of time to like
00:30:27.600 actually i listened to your stuff i'm ever told you episode which was very informative
00:30:31.360 it took me like sitting down and actually like going through the proposed legislation and like
00:30:38.160 the background to be like wait a minute no on this but I think that there's I think that people
00:30:44.180 are starting to come around I think that enough people who care about the internet and enough
00:30:48.420 like advocates for an open internet and enough like LGBTQ advocates and folks are speaking up
00:30:54.240 about this legislation and I also just think that like I don't know this is not a fully fleshed out
00:30:59.400 thought. But I think that people are really becoming tired of the ways that our internet
00:31:06.660 experience is just becoming worse and worse. And I think this legislation might be a real
00:31:14.180 crescendo point where people have kind of had enough. I think that when this legislation first
00:31:21.600 came out, I didn't see a lot of people talking about it. But I think that recently I've seen
00:31:25.220 more and more people being like, wait, really look into this before you advocate for it.
00:31:28.560 I went from seeing organizations that are, I guess I would say, kind of aligned with youth online being like, oh, we like it, to now not really talking about it so much.
00:31:40.340 And so I'm hopeful that we've reached an inflection point with this where people are like, no, this is actually not what we need. And this is just like another way to make our internet yet another battleground on which to like demonize and criminalize trans youth. And I think, as you said, people are sick of that.
00:32:01.200 yeah and again thank you thank you i i uh go check out that episode on stuff mom never told
00:32:07.660 you if you're interested in hearing more but a big shout out i said in the episode big shout
00:32:12.660 out to a lot of these like tiktok creators that have been covering it because that's how i found
00:32:16.560 out about this i hadn't heard about this i i didn't really hear people talking about this
00:32:21.840 until i was seeing people on tiktok and still seeing like a lot of young people on tiktok
00:32:26.740 using their platform to advocate for or to talk about this issue and to talk about this
00:32:31.780 this legislation and how it's going to be harmful um so yeah like grassroots organizing is important
00:32:38.680 and again this ties into the whole conversation about social media and the internet being
00:32:43.060 monitored because tiktok is a platform for that and tiktok is a platform for a lot of young people
00:32:48.000 in particular to advocate for themselves and for other communities and i think we owe it to a lot
00:32:52.920 of these activists on TikTok, the fact that this is getting more attention and this is getting more
00:32:57.440 pushback now. Absolutely. I agree. So thanks to folks who use their platform on TikTok to advocate
00:33:04.400 and educate and speak out. I thank God we have platforms like this to do that. Thank God we have
00:33:11.200 places where folks can use their platforms to talk about legislation in this way that is accessible,
00:33:17.740 that can help educate all of us. So I'm right there with you. Completely agree.
00:33:22.920 Okay, so funny update for you on the question of whether an AI-generated song can win a Grammy.
00:33:30.780 So can an AI-generated song win a Grammy?
00:33:33.540 Well, it's complicated.
00:33:34.920 A while back, we told you that the Grammys said that only songs with human songwriters, not AI, were eligible to win a Grammy.
00:33:42.320 We had a whole conversation about how that was, I thought, was really good, like a line in the sand.
00:33:47.560 The Grammys are for humans, not AI.
00:33:49.300 I was joking about how, like, I don't want a robot to perform at the Grammys.
00:33:52.720 I want to see, like, Gloria Estefan or, like, Celine Dion.
00:33:55.980 Like, I don't want to see a robot.
00:33:56.960 I want to see a human.
00:33:57.780 It's for humans.
00:33:58.680 Well, this week, the head of the Grammys, Recording Academy CEO, Harvey Mason Jr., kind
00:34:05.020 of indicated that an AI-generated song that kind of sounds like The Weeknd and Drake called
00:34:10.840 Heart on My Sleeve would be Grammy eligible.
00:34:14.040 And everybody was like, what?
00:34:15.480 I thought you said that it had to have a human songwriter in order to be eligible for a Grammy.
00:34:20.380 Previously, Mason Jr. told the New York Times the song was absolutely eligible because it was written by a human.
00:34:25.960 Okay.
00:34:26.620 But now he is saying that song is not eligible because even though it's written by a human, this, like, writer, the songwriter on social media that's, like, kind of mysterious.
00:34:36.640 It's, like, not a songwriter that you've heard of.
00:34:39.020 It's, like, some person on social media.
00:34:40.380 Even though it might have been written by a human technically, that human did not get legal clearances to use The Weeknd or Drake's vocal likenesses.
00:34:49.820 So the Grammy is saying that that disqualifies the song for winning song of the year or best rap song, which are the two categories it was submitted to.
00:34:57.800 Earlier this summer, Mason Jr. laid out new rules for whether songs using AI were Grammy eligible.
00:35:03.120 They said that AI-assisted music could be submitted only if humans, quote, contributed heavily to the song.
00:35:11.520 And I guess all of this is to say that I think it's pretty clear that these rules might be a little too subjective.
00:35:18.240 You know, what does heavily contributed mean?
00:35:20.400 It seems like maybe they're kind of building the plane as they fly it a little bit in terms
00:35:24.460 of coming up with these rules and guidelines.
00:35:26.820 And I know I reference this a lot, but it does sound like the reality is progressing
00:35:31.680 quite a bit faster than the rules are being written, that this has changed, you know,
00:35:36.000 that he was like, oh, it's absolutely eligible for a Grammy despite being AI generated to
00:35:39.900 like, no, just kidding.
00:35:40.980 It's not eligible for a Grammy within the span of a couple of weeks.
00:35:44.620 Yeah, I think you're definitely right.
00:35:46.500 it like it does it does sort of feel like they're scrambling because they don't they don't know how
00:35:51.260 to respond to this and yeah we talked last week you know more about like the film industry and
00:35:56.460 how that's kind of been affected by changing industries and changing economies and all that
00:36:01.520 but again with music it's one of those things where it's art is so fundamental to like the
00:36:07.300 human experience and it is sort of like you know part of me like gets very existential about this
00:36:12.960 where it is like we're taking away like oh my god there was some tweet I don't remember what
00:36:18.920 who said or whatever there's some tweet I remember seeing that was like so like can AI be used to
00:36:24.940 like help clean up the ocean or is it only gonna be making art and like poetry and all that which
00:36:30.960 I was like yeah I know it's like why are we why are we having AI do this stuff that's like fun
00:36:35.080 and it is like you know people wanted it is part again it's such a fundamental part of the human
00:36:39.980 experience part of me is like you know the closest I can compare this to like previously is with like
00:36:48.220 you know and when it came to like electronic music and like how that was sort of thought about
00:36:52.580 when it originally popped up and that makes me a little bit more like okay like I think if we were
00:36:57.700 using AI a little bit to like as a part of the process but yeah it is it is that that like the
00:37:04.260 weekend like the weekend and and drake not giving their permission to use their voice or their
00:37:10.260 likeness or their whatever that definitely feels like a red flag because it is it is like
00:37:15.500 that that just seems to me where it's like that is clearly that okay and i'm i but who's to say
00:37:21.900 i i don't and again it is one of those things where it's like the grammys are coming from more
00:37:27.080 of like the business industry side so i'm not going to put it past them to be like yep it's
00:37:31.860 all fine this is all great we love it all we love it all yeah i i saw this um video of the director
00:37:40.620 is it miyazaki from the from like my neighbor totoro and princess and basically the animators
00:37:47.360 were showing him this character that they had trained using ai and he was like absolutely not
00:37:53.740 i think the fuck not he he shut it down he was like the point of art is meant to be human it's
00:37:59.940 meant to be humans responding to the human condition. 0.98
00:38:03.560 And he was so deeply and genuinely offended
00:38:09.000 by what he saw as this shortcut around the humanity
00:38:15.500 and the humanness of art and expression.
00:38:17.540 And it just really stuck with me.
00:38:18.580 I once thought it would be funny and cool
00:38:22.420 to talk to an AI podcast host version of myself.
00:38:28.180 And when I sat down and started putting that together, I was like, wait, actually, I hate this. I don't want to hear an AI version of me. As we've talked about off mic, Joey, if folks can't tell, I'm having an off recording day.
00:38:50.400 The idea of AI is like, well, I can come in and I'll always sound prepared and eloquent and thoughtful and this and that. I was like, get rid of this AI. I don't like it. It's just not how it's supposed to be. Sometimes part of art is connecting to our humanity. And sometimes that humanity has off days or is messy or is tough or is this or is that.
00:39:14.940 As you said, I think the fact that business interests are so excited about AI makes me think that what they want is to cut out the version of creation that is human, that has the off day, isn't prepared, came late, doesn't have this, doesn't have that.
00:39:34.400 they they it was it's in their best bottom line interest to prioritize versions of creation that
00:39:43.260 like never experienced those those things that humans experience i don't know i'm i'm going i'm
00:39:47.880 going like way too deep on this but i i all that is to say that i know what you mean you're so right
00:39:53.660 though it is like how many and i mean so much so much of it is like we'll never know but think about
00:39:58.200 how many like recordings of songs that we listen to that maybe came out of the musician having an
00:40:04.940 off day like I that is part of art emotions are part of art and having that again very very on
00:40:13.180 very like manicured version of a person being the only thing that can create art seems like
00:40:21.740 we're just gonna lose a lot of yeah like lose a lot of the actual art lose a lot of the the
00:40:27.460 this the good stuff that comes out of you know what i'm thinking it's the um oh man this maybe
00:40:32.500 this is going in a different direction but that one there's a there's one recording of fleetwood
00:40:37.440 max singing uh silver springs and are they singing it to each other they're singing it to each other
00:40:43.800 oh my god angry like they look so angry and it's like it is one of the most beautiful things and
00:40:49.660 it's one of the most beautiful things to listen to like can you imagine if we didn't get that
00:40:53.560 because they were like nope you guys can't stand to be in the same room so we're just not gonna
00:40:57.280 record like so much of art comes from that anger it comes from those like quote unquote bad emotions
00:41:03.120 like what i hate yeah that's just joey you've just said my like my like trigger phrase for like
00:41:10.800 like if we if we were if this if this conversation was happening at a cocktail party i would be 0.95
00:41:14.780 cornering your ass all night talking about that one performance it's i have studied it i have like 0.66
00:41:19.860 seen it so many times it's and like you can just feel the emotion and the energy between them i 0.98
00:41:25.700 It's one of the most, like, beautiful things ever.
00:41:30.160 And it comes from, like, again, I'm sure it comes from so much bad emotions.
00:41:34.100 So many, like, negative bad emotions from both of them.
00:41:37.280 But, yeah, no, I totally agree.
00:41:39.000 I would go off about this for hours.
00:41:40.880 That is a beautiful, beautiful song.
00:41:43.540 And you know what?
00:41:45.800 It's just depressing to think that AI can take away that.
00:41:48.840 That take away that humanity.
00:41:51.300 Yeah.
00:41:51.780 I mean, we did an episode about the hologram version of Whitney Houston was doing a residency in Vegas.
00:41:59.800 And in the episode, one of the things that it sort of comes up is the implication that, you know, Whitney Houston was this like incredibly talented musician, but she had a troubled life.
00:42:10.900 And that the implication in making her a hologram is like, oh, well, this is a version of her that we can have produce perfect live performances forever and ever and ever and ever and ever. We'll never be hungover or late or on substances or be distracted by her romantic life.
00:42:28.640 Or, you know, and it's like, but those were all part of what made her music, her music.
00:42:34.120 And so like, it's like, I don't, I don't like this implication that via technology, you
00:42:38.480 can pick the parts that you like, right?
00:42:40.260 Like if you want to listen to Fleetwood Mac, part of what makes Fleetwood Mac good is the
00:42:44.880 drama off stage is like when they bring that to their performances, that's what makes it
00:42:49.960 electric.
00:42:50.660 Unless you're one of the robots from the movie Ex Machina, robots are probably not having
00:42:55.160 romantic drama.
00:42:55.900 i don't think ai is having romantic drama with each other off stage yeah i i again and i you
00:43:03.100 know obviously addiction's bad addiction's real not not to romanticize any of that but like i
00:43:08.360 were talking before this i'm wearing a t-rex shirt right now like i love a lot of like 70s
00:43:12.920 era like rock and so much of that is has this terrible terrible you know trauma behind it but
00:43:19.920 it is like we got good music out of it and again not to i don't know where i'm going with this
00:43:24.560 i know what you mean like it's it's not good it's that being said like again like addiction's bad
00:43:31.900 certain drug usage is harmful for people but that's part of the human experience is being
00:43:39.300 messy and making mistakes and messing up and and art comes from those mistakes and comes from
00:43:44.400 messing up and is oftentimes a way to cope with that which again yeah and again like part of part
00:43:50.240 of the beauty of music and movies and literature and all of this is that it oftentimes is going to
00:43:55.760 reflect things that we're feeling that we don't know how to explain. I'm not a musician. I don't
00:44:00.180 have the talents to express these feelings musically, but I love listening to my favorite
00:44:07.220 artists talking about it and talking about experiences that I'm going through. I can go
00:44:13.260 cried with Phoebe Bridger's song and yeah it's it's I don't know it's just it's it's it's sad
00:44:21.580 to see sad to see where this is going yeah yeah I just we are two people who care quite a bit about
00:44:28.620 art and expression and I just want to make sure that that even in our you know tech futures the
00:44:37.720 beauty and the humanity of that I want to make sure that is protected and uplifted and preserved
00:44:43.240 So I guess I hope that that is the way that it is in the future.
00:44:47.660 For sure.
00:44:52.040 More after a quick break.
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00:45:44.080 When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.
00:45:50.000 I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.
00:45:56.360 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.
00:46:00.060 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, 0.96
00:46:05.500 shut up, don't say anything.
00:46:08.140 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. 0.98
00:46:12.680 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.
00:46:17.260 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.
00:46:24.680 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:46:28.640 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.
00:46:32.080 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:46:35.220 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:46:48.700 Let's get right back into it.
00:46:53.540 Okay, so the last thing I wanted to talk about is a story from my hometown.
00:46:58.140 Susanna Gibson is a nurse practitioner running in her first election cycle as a Democratic candidate in a crucial race for the Virginia General Assembly. 0.88
00:47:06.480 She is denouncing reports that she and her husband performed live in a sexually explicit streaming site.
00:47:12.300 Gibson said that these reports about her online activity were an illegal invasion of her privacy designed to humiliate her and her family.
00:47:20.280 So none of the news outlets who reported on this have independently verified these live streams, I should say.
00:47:26.480 but it looks like Gibson and her husband got on this streaming site called Chaturbate and had sex
00:47:34.620 with each other on this live stream. So this race that she is running in is a really crucial race
00:47:40.020 for Virginia. The House of Delegates is one of the only handfuls of competitive races that will
00:47:44.600 determine control of the General Assembly. Republicans hold a slim majority in the House
00:47:48.880 and Democrats narrowly control the state Senate, but both chambers are up for grabs in November.
00:47:53.140 Her district is right outside of Richmond, Virginia in Henrico County, which is actually more or less where I grew up and where my parents and family still live.
00:48:01.860 And her district is one of seven toss-up seats across the 100-member house, according to the Virginia Public Access Project.
00:48:08.220 So this was all first reported by the Washington Post, who said that it learned about the material from a, quote, Republican operative who denied connection to Gibson's opponent, David Owen, or to other political groups in Virginia.
00:48:20.620 Now, obviously, I've worked on campaigns before. Oppo research is a thing that happens in campaigns. But to be honest, I'm kind of side-eyeing the Post here who published sexual dirt on a woman given to them by her rival political party.
00:48:36.660 You know, even though this person is like, oh, I don't work for her opponent, they do call this person a Republican operative.
00:48:43.560 And I just think it's dirty politics.
00:48:45.140 Like, I think it's unbecoming of the race. 0.99
00:48:48.340 I just don't think it's cool that the Post thought this was, like, newsworthy or relevant to, you know, publish.
00:48:55.340 In an article about why they published the claims, the Post wrote,
00:48:58.780 the Post typically does not identify victims of alleged sex crimes to protect their privacy.
00:49:03.260 In this case, Gibson originally live-streamed these sexual acts on a site that was not password-protected. The couple had more than 5,700 followers there. Many of the videos remained available to the public on other unrestricted sites as of Saturday. Gibson apparently was not aware of this and had not authorized the posting of this material on other sites.
00:49:23.880 So to be super, super clear, Gibson nor her husband did anything illegal in making these videos. It is not illegal to film yourself having sex. It is not illegal to put it on a live stream site.
00:49:36.620 the platform that hosted this these videos does apparently have a rule against asking for tips
00:49:42.800 for specific sex acts which apparently gibson and her husband did but okay so the washington post
00:49:47.320 is like publishing that this woman may or may not have broken chat tribates no tipping like no
00:49:53.500 asking for tips rules it just seems to me like very beneath them to publish this at all not to
00:50:00.460 mention it might be a crime daniel p walkins a lawyer for gibson said that it was unlawful in
00:50:06.340 Virginia to record someone in a state of undress and distribute it to a third party without that
00:50:10.940 person's consent. It's illegal and it's disgusting to disseminate this kind of material and we're
00:50:15.380 working closely with the FBI and local prosecutors to bring those wrongdoers to justice, her attorney
00:50:20.280 said. I have to give major shout outs to Gibson because she is saying that this is not going to
00:50:26.440 derail her campaign. She said, it won't intimidate me and it won't silence me. My political opponents
00:50:31.340 and their Republican allies have proven they're willing to commit a sex crime to attack me and my
00:50:35.280 family because there's no line they won't cross to silence women when they speak up. And I'm also
00:50:40.660 glad to see that people in the big D Democratic institution are sticking up for her. Susanna
00:50:46.520 originally ran for office because of the overturning of Roe, and she's been very outspoken
00:50:50.440 on standing up for reproductive rights. People are coming out in support of Susanna because they
00:50:54.340 know that Republicans are coming after her because she was standing up for them. This is from a
00:50:58.360 spokesperson named Lauren Chu. Yeah, good for her. Again, standing up for herself and, you know, 0.79
00:51:05.280 it seems like i i again obviously it's a terrible situation but i'm glad that people are standing
00:51:11.840 behind her too because it does seem like something where you know i this makes me think of like i
00:51:17.180 feel like there definitely has been a shift in like the last couple of years about how we talk
00:51:22.420 about like these leaks of you know i like when i grew up it was always like the like celebrities
00:51:30.120 nudes getting leaked or like their sex tape like the kim kardashian sex tape and all that like
00:51:35.240 it's it's which I feel like was all there was for a while it was very it was used to used to attack 0.94
00:51:42.220 women and used to attack and many times when it was like it's consensual it's none of your
00:51:47.280 business what they're doing in their sex life as long as it's consensual like adults and all that
00:51:51.880 um and I I'm glad like I I and I don't know how much of this is like part of a bigger push but
00:51:58.760 it does seem like there is kind of a shift where yeah I'm like good for her for being like I didn't
00:52:04.240 do anything illegal I didn't in fact what they did is illegal you know I think it is like again
00:52:11.140 this is this is a bigger scale version of this but it's like when we talk about like revenge porn
00:52:15.200 and like that kind of thing where where I think it is good to see that there's kind of this shift
00:52:21.980 about now like hey whatever people adults have sex sometimes it's a thing that happens we all
00:52:31.340 are aware of that you know that that's not the problem the problem is the fact that people are
00:52:36.640 gonna like use that and weaponize that and we live in a you know world where we have the internet and
00:52:41.980 and yeah like things happen people whatever people do things it's their personal business I'm glad
00:52:49.600 there is kind of this shift where it is sort of like yeah and again it is this is illegal what
00:52:53.860 the republicans were doing in this case and it's terrifying we were talking about like you know
00:52:58.960 double standards with men and women when it comes to sex also like at the top of this like
00:53:02.740 if you just think historically like we know so much about like the kennedy's sex lives and all
00:53:09.540 that and that's like a joke like it's like almost celebrated like it's almost sort of like haha it's
00:53:15.420 this cool thing about jfk he slept around a lot and i don't know like it is like like it is that
00:53:23.880 double standard where it is like why is that like a thing that's like that's cool that's but and 0.82
00:53:28.820 then like in this situation you know i'm sure if jfk were around now he would be making a sex tape
00:53:35.020 oh my god of course like at the very at the very least my uh my uh controversial presidential
00:53:44.320 opinion uh but yeah it is it is so that is and again good for her this is terrifying this is a
00:53:53.240 that is a terrible situation to be in but good for her for standing up for herself and
00:53:57.160 that's it's messed up and yeah good for her i hope this doesn't affect her campaign because
00:54:01.860 yeah yeah i i think you're right i i think slash hope that we've reached a new era of this kind of
00:54:10.800 thing where i am happy that she's not just like quote resigning in disgrace because she didn't
00:54:17.300 do anything disgraceful i'm happy that she's not letting this define her campaign and i also think
00:54:23.220 like what does any of this have to do with the issues right like she is like she says that she
00:54:31.040 was motivated to run for office because of threats to reproductive health i thought it's like that's
00:54:36.820 a big issue i don't know it just it just it just feels like beneath everybody i i think i think i
00:54:43.600 think it's beneath people might disagree but i i don't think it's fitting to publish these kinds
00:54:51.280 of you know like i just i did i don't think i don't like how is this going to help virginians
00:54:58.120 you know how is this going how is this going to move policy forward i just i don't think it's like
00:55:03.920 worthy of making it this big of a thing about her campaign i will say like to your point about the
00:55:10.300 i think that donald trump definitely set a new standard for like what is expected and how public
00:55:18.960 officials are like meant to behave like let's not forget in a civil trial a jury found that trump
00:55:24.280 sexually abused eugene carroll so like an actual yeah sex crime right like we have convicted yeah
00:55:32.340 like yeah sex criminals that are that were the president of the united states and exactly why
00:55:40.720 like and i'm sure these are again i'm sure a lot like the republicans that were behind this probably 0.90
00:55:47.740 at least some of them support trump you know who's who knows maybe they're anti-trump republicans
00:55:54.100 who's to say but they probably do and it it's yeah yeah and i get what you said like shame on
00:56:01.320 the washington post for publishing this i get this as part of a like it is part of like political
00:56:06.900 campaigns but also that that feels like that's crossing a line i don't know what it what the
00:56:12.980 line is but that just seems so clearly wrong and especially yeah when it is like if you if you as
00:56:20.760 a journalist if i sat and thought about this for two minutes it's like you're aiding criminals now
00:56:26.620 who are spreading this video without this woman's consent rather and and sort of framing it in a way
00:56:35.320 that makes her seem like she's doing something wrong when she didn't break a law like she didn't
00:56:40.840 yeah again it seems like she what she did was consensual it was maybe yeah the tipping thing 0.96
00:56:46.120 is the one thing but like seriously like yeah that's that's yeah oh she might have broken their 0.81
00:56:50.620 like chatubates rule like like policies like oh no oh man yeah and i don't know like i i remember 1.00
00:57:01.360 when so back in 2010 this woman crystal ball was running in virginia um in the virginia's first
00:57:08.400 congressional district and these images of her they were the like tamest images you ever saw in
00:57:14.920 your life basically she went to a christmas party with her then husband and i guess the theme might
00:57:19.720 have been like naughty christmas and so she's like fully clothed it's like her it's like clearly like
00:57:23.740 her and her friends having fun in one of the pictures i think she's wearing like a like a sex 0.89
00:57:28.760 toy on her nose but like they're there if anything the pictures are silly it's like oh she went out 0.88
00:57:35.120 and had like a silly night of fully clothed adult fun for like a theme party and those pictures like
00:57:42.800 i think she had to drop out of the race and so i'm happy to see that the times have changed a 0.63
00:57:48.440 little bit that she that like gibson is not just like dropping out that she's like standing her
00:57:54.000 like standing firm in the fact that this you know she didn't do anything wrong and she's not going
00:57:57.820 to be intimidated by this i will say like having like i like i grew up in uh this area i grew up
00:58:04.840 in Chesterfield County, which is just one county away from Henrico County, but it's basically the
00:58:09.420 same town. I hate to say this. I firmly believe that she didn't do anything wrong. She has nothing
00:58:17.560 to be ashamed of, all of that. I just think the area is such that gender-based double standards 0.95
00:58:25.240 when it comes to sexuality, I think is a real thing. And I think that for women, especially,
00:58:30.580 there like i think that women in virginia are just held to a completely unrealistic standard 0.86
00:58:35.120 that like nobody could meet and so even if you're not you know be on a live stream or whatever it 1.00
00:58:41.900 would be something it would it would sign something to be like oh this you're not you're not a proper
00:58:46.940 woman quote-unquote because of this or that like where when i was growing up there definitely was 1.00
00:58:51.400 the idea that women's behavior was meant to be scrutinized in a way that like it's just like 1.00
00:58:58.560 But unique for women running for office and women in the public eye. And so I worry that Gibson, like this might give folks in Virginia pause. It shouldn't. And I hope it doesn't. Because it's nothing. But just growing up in this part of Virginia, specifically, I just remember what it was like, and how much of life was ruled by these completely regressive binaries and like
00:59:28.560 social norms and rules like how much of that dictated life there i don't know if it's still
00:59:33.680 like that i haven't lived there for many many years but i hope that gibson does not jump out
00:59:38.900 of the race i hope that this does not impact gibson's race because i don't think it should
00:59:43.020 i hope that we are in a different place where hey we're all adults people have sex however you want
00:59:48.860 to get down is however you want to get down if it's consensual if y'all are adults do your thing
00:59:52.240 i hope that the only people that i'm like really side-eyeing here are the post and whoever that 0.96
00:59:57.640 like fucking hating ass Republican operative was, who was like, hey, Post, you should publish 0.97
01:00:04.000 this. So yeah, Gibson, I am with you. I think that it's really cool that she is, I don't know, 1.00
01:00:12.740 I think this will be a test to see if we really are in a different place, and I hope that we are.
01:00:17.220 Yeah, yeah. I hope so too.
01:00:19.700 Well, that is all I have. I feel like this was a tough one for me. I'm sorry, Joey. I'm sorry,
01:00:25.120 listeners. I'm in a weird headspace.
01:00:27.300 Don't mind me. Mercury's in retrograde.
01:00:30.800 I think it's ending tomorrow.
01:00:32.340 We'll all hang in there together
01:00:34.040 until tomorrow. By the time you hear this,
01:00:36.000 it will be over. Joey,
01:00:37.940 thank you so much for doing the news with me, and
01:00:39.820 I'll talk to you all later.
01:00:46.520 If you're looking for ways to support
01:00:47.900 the show, check out our merch store at
01:00:49.860 tangoti.com slash store.
01:00:52.480 Got a story about an interesting
01:00:53.840 thing in tech or just want to say hi you can reach us at hello at tangody.com you can also 0.91
01:00:58.680 find transcripts for today's episode at tangody.com there are no girls on the internet was created by
01:01:03.140 me Bridget Todd it's a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative edited by Joey Pat Jonathan
01:01:09.280 Strickland is our executive producer Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer
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