There Are No Girls on the Internet - She shaped the early days of the internet. Now she’s making it even better.

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:00:02.580 Guaranteed human.

00:00:05.180 Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches,

00:00:08.020 there's a lot of suspense.

00:00:09.440 Will they finally eat the veggies?

00:00:10.940 Will the pesto survive the first bite?

00:00:12.980 Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all?

00:00:17.020 And will you finish Episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers?

00:00:20.920 Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Crave, Netflix, and Disney Plus

00:00:24.120 from $94 a month.

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00:00:50.080 I survived nine months in captivity,

00:00:53.240 and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

00:00:58.760 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.

00:01:02.380 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:01:09.920 These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:01:13.740 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:01:21.360 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

00:01:27.100 Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

00:01:35.740 Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions.

00:01:44.000 Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.

00:01:45.760 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:01:51.160 There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.

00:02:03.700 I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.

00:02:09.040 So when I first started getting really into the Internet, I always assumed that I was an outlier.

00:02:13.800 I never really saw imagery of women, let alone Black women, taking up a lot of space online.

00:02:19.160 And all the movies and media I saw about people who were really into the internet in those days were all men.

00:02:25.260 And a specific kind of man at that, you know, nerdy and almost always white.

00:02:30.360 So the story I let myself believe was that women and people of color and queer folks, all of us,

00:02:35.220 we were all fighting to break into this industry that was pretty much a boys' club.

00:02:39.020 It wasn't until much later that I realized that story I'd been telling myself, it was wrong.

00:02:44.240 We'd always been there.

00:02:46.240 From the earliest days of computing and the internet and technology,

00:02:49.480 marginalized folks were at the forefront, doing the work of making it better.

00:02:53.400 Now, this realization allowed for a complete shift in my thinking.

00:02:56.920 Technology and the internet, it's our rightful domain.

00:03:00.100 And even if our stories are not always told or appreciated,

00:03:02.820 or worse, if they're intentionally left out of the narrative,

00:03:05.440 we're still here, taking up space.

00:03:07.800 And we have been from the very beginning. 1.00

00:03:09.920 Women like Denise Duncan are exactly who I'm talking about. 1.00

00:03:13.500 Denise has been working in tech since the earliest days of the internet. 1.00

00:03:16.820 And today, she's still there, working to make sure the internet is equitable and inclusive. 0.96

00:03:23.500 Denise has had a front row seat to how the internet has changed over the years.

00:03:27.200 And voices like hers can help us understand where it's going next.

00:03:31.200 So, you know, as a Black woman in tech, what have your experiences been like?

00:03:35.780 First of all, what brought you to this work in general?

00:03:39.460 How did you get here?

00:03:40.320 I started working in tech in 96. Started building websites kind of like as soon as you could make a living building websites. I got an internship with an organization called Xorg, which was a consortium that ran a UI for Linux called Xwindows.

00:04:04.440 and um it was like an incredible place like the people there were so nerdy and like a bunch of

00:04:11.140 people who worked there like went on to work at w3c you know like like and they okay so this was

00:04:18.520 96 at that time they were experimenting with cloud computing like they i saw an experiment

00:04:25.500 of somebody running windows running windows and word on one machine and using it on another one

00:04:33.040 in 1996 right like they already like made that leap at that time right which is incredible and

00:04:40.040 I studied physics when I was in school and um like I said I got involved like at the very very

00:04:47.660 beginning of the internet so at my like work study job I spent a lot of time um browsing the web you

00:04:56.300 know like and it was Netscape 1 you know um we actually used something called Lynx I think which

00:05:02.820 was like a text-based browser and like let me just go like i'll geek out a little bit more

00:05:07.820 we i actually like the whole foray foray into um kind of like the internet and the web was using

00:05:15.920 gopher and um archie which were like precursors to the web like archie would allow you to search

00:05:24.360 a bunch of different archives and stuff for files and everything and gopher was like almost like

00:05:30.340 the web but it was very highly structured so you had to like go through all these menus and stuff

00:05:36.220 right so anyway like at my job so I use like Archie and Gopher for school and stuff and at my

00:05:42.800 job I started playing around with with Netscape because my boss was like she discovered the

00:05:48.380 internet and the web because she was a um she would go coupon shopping right and like even at

00:05:56.220 that time like she was finding deals and deals anyway I started playing around with it and I

00:06:01.580 just realized like you know it was very easy to actually figure out how it all worked like

00:06:08.160 building a web page just took like looking at the source in the browser and working it out from

00:06:14.060 there so you know I was kind of like at this place where I was like okay I studied physics I'm pretty

00:06:20.480 sure i don't want to become a research scientist um what am i going to do with this so i got that

00:06:26.420 internship at xorg and like um that the the rest is history to some extent so you you know you

00:06:35.440 talked a little bit about sort of you know seeing all this wild stuff like the cloud the early cloud

00:06:40.540 computing and all that and you talked about how it was sort of all this geeky nerdy stuff did you

00:06:46.080 feel like i have found my people when you were doing this early internet work were you like

00:06:50.340 I have found my people? Or did you feel like this is what I want to be doing, but showing up here as

00:06:56.560 myself in this space feels fraught? What were the feelings like being at the forefront of the

00:07:02.400 internet in this way? Oh, wow. That's such an interesting question. I've never really thought

00:07:07.540 about that. I think in a lot of ways, I did feel like these are my people because I think in those

00:07:13.920 early days like let me say this I think the internet changed completely around 2007-2008

00:07:23.000 when the when the iPhone came around right I think before that it was a really different universe

00:07:29.880 where it was kind of populated by geeks and nerds who just vibed on being geeks and nerds together

00:07:36.900 right and like it didn't matter like um it was just like we're cool because like you know

00:07:46.940 yeah we're cool because like we're going on alt dot whatever and checking out you know

00:07:54.860 melvin songs or uh dnd tips together or whatever right so like there was and there was all of this

00:08:02.380 experimentation like there were so many sites that were just like nonsense or like weird art

00:08:08.280 projects and stuff like that and so I did feel like I found my people because like I was I'm all

00:08:16.140 about that like just like creating for creating's sake and you know there's like such a short

00:08:21.380 feedback loop especially at the web with the web at that time like building a web page like you

00:08:26.480 just saw stuff instantly right so it was really a good like creative medium i think like i'll tell

00:08:33.820 you about my first paying job that i got was a place called the internet company that literally

00:08:40.820 owned the domain internet.com um we used to get um okay so we had like help at internet.com right

00:08:53.000 every once in a while we get like an awesome one like hey internet where's the porn at

00:08:58.320 oh my gosh and the guys that i worked with they're like so i think like two or three of the guys who

00:09:15.040 founded the internet company were in like the boston phoenix like their free paper they're like

00:09:21.060 the who's who of the internet at that time um so they like understood what was coming and they

00:09:28.320 owned all they like one of the guys in my office owned the domain god.com right so another funny

00:09:34.940 story like somebody wrote him as like dear god and you're a guitarist for my band and he wrote

00:09:42.500 back and he was like, sorry, I play bass. I love it. I mean, it does sort of, you sort of get the

00:09:53.000 sense that these were folks who, like you said, they knew what was coming and they were really

00:09:57.580 putting down infrastructure, camping out in domain names that they knew were going to be big.

00:10:04.240 And so you really had a front seat to a lot of that early architecture of what we know as the

00:10:09.780 internet. Because she had such a foundational role of building out the earliest architecture

00:10:14.760 of what the internet would eventually become, Denise feels a real sense of responsibility to

00:10:19.420 work to make it better, which drove her to Project Liberty, an initiative of unfinished labs that

00:10:24.600 tries to transform how the internet works and who benefits from the digital economy by creating new 0.72

00:10:29.920 civic architecture for our digital world. At Project Liberty, Denise uses blockchain, a digital ledger 0.96

00:10:35.580 of transactions that allow for digital information to be recorded and distributed to build civic 0.86

00:10:39.760 technology to imagine the next generation of the web one that serves people not platforms that's

00:10:45.480 actually why like what attracted me to the project the to project liberty is because like i was there

00:10:53.560 and you know in all honesty like i feel some responsibility for where we've ended up right

00:11:00.360 um where the web has ended up and like i'm not i know i'm not responsible but here's why right like

00:11:06.260 at the beginning we were all like okay this is cool but like how are we gonna make money like

00:11:12.320 how do we keep these awesome jobs right um and like eventually and and you know when you were

00:11:21.340 talking about finding your people like we would have um barbecues we'd go to this brew pub every

00:11:27.740 friday right with the internet company and hang out and drink a whole lot and talk and talk and

00:11:33.360 talk and and like so we learned a lot about each other's like philosophies right so a lot of people

00:11:39.720 there the internet was about like freedom like the web was about the ability for people to broadcast

00:11:45.760 it was all about like individuals being able to speak for themselves right like all of us believe

00:11:52.700 that that's why we were there in order to enable people to have a voice but what happened was

00:12:00.140 at some point you know google started ad tech started and all of a sudden like oh we are making

00:12:09.620 money right we are able to support this we have to sell out a little bit in order to do it right

00:12:16.480 but we can do it right and so like at that point i became like super ambivalent about working in

00:12:25.840 the tech industry because it that felt like a real betrayal of like that like it's about letting

00:12:31.360 people speak right it you know it wasn't about letting people speak it was about surveilling

00:12:35.780 people at that point right so when um I talked to Braxton about Project Liberty he and I go back a

00:12:45.700 little while like um he was saying like I know you're interested in doing something a little

00:12:51.240 different, like maybe moving on from tech, moving into, you know, something a little bit more

00:12:56.140 mission driven. Like, let me tell you about this. And it was a perfect marriage, right? Of the

00:13:02.820 knowledge and experience I have from, you know, working in tech for so long and the desire I had

00:13:12.020 to move into a space where I was doing things for people. Because I think the other part of my

00:13:18.800 ambivalence was like, you know, I realized like the tech industry is a great way to make a living

00:13:23.840 and one of the only good ways to make a living in this country right now. Right. And so why is that?

00:13:32.100 Right. And, and why is Facebook like a technology company requiring people to move to San Francisco

00:13:38.060 to work for them? Right. Like, you know, so anyway, so I really saw it as an opportunity to

00:13:46.000 help do a little reset back to the original ideas of what the web was founded on.

00:13:56.520 I mean, as far as I'm concerned.

00:13:58.880 Let's take a quick break.

00:14:05.680 Behind every night spent making the kids lunches, there's a lot of suspense.

00:14:09.980 Will they finally eat the veggies?

00:14:11.460 Will the pesto survive the first bite?

00:14:13.280 Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all?

00:14:17.560 And will you finish Episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers?

00:14:21.460 Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Crave, Netflix, and Disney Plus

00:14:24.640 from $94 a month, price guaranteed for two years on Internet

00:14:27.940 with a two-year term and auto-pay credit.

00:14:30.180 Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability.

00:14:32.900 Bell. Connection is everything.

00:14:35.140 Run a business and not thinking about podcasting?

00:14:37.940 Think again.

00:14:38.920 More Americans listen to podcasts

00:14:40.460 than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora.

00:14:43.720 And as the number one podcaster,

00:14:45.480 iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined.

00:14:47.980 So whatever your customers listen to,

00:14:49.600 they'll hear your message.

00:14:51.060 Plus, only iHeart can extend your message

00:14:53.000 to audiences across broadcast radio.

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00:14:58.380 Streaming, radio, and podcasting.

00:15:00.560 Let us show you at iHeartAdvertising.com.

00:15:03.140 That's iHeartAdvertising.com.

00:15:05.520 If your bookshelf and your For You page

00:15:07.500 are equally important to your personality,

00:15:09.260 welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club,

00:15:16.100 part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks

00:15:20.040 Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo,

00:15:24.840 and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations

00:15:29.020 everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. So obsessed.

00:15:34.580 From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments,

00:15:39.260 Nothing is off the table.

00:15:40.980 It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters,

00:15:46.540 then that is a Trojan horse.

00:15:48.440 Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations,

00:15:52.420 or a community of readers who love to think a little too much,

00:15:55.960 you're in the right place.

00:15:57.640 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

00:16:01.680 or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:16:03.560 See you between the pages.

00:16:04.740 When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.

00:16:11.520 I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

00:16:17.880 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.

00:16:21.600 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, 0.99

00:16:27.020 Shut up. Don't say anything. 0.99

00:16:29.620 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable.

00:16:34.200 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.

00:16:38.660 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.

00:16:46.280 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:16:50.200 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

00:16:53.640 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:16:56.760 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:17:08.660 I know that Project Liberty is all about sort of using tech to make sure the web is, you know, open and equitable and really centered on people.

00:17:18.180 Can you talk us through a little bit about how you are seeking to accomplish that, how you do that?

00:17:22.700 Yeah. So it's been a journey for us, right? Because what we're trying to do is not what the tech industry is motivated by as naturally, right? We're trying to build this public infrastructure to help take social networks.

00:17:44.100 The social graph is the technical term for it. Take the social graph and make it a universally owned property so that every individual can decide what they want to do with the information that exists in that social graph.

00:18:02.260 and it also means that you know these companies that are dominating the space now don't get to

00:18:11.540 hold on to your data and don't get to hold on to your relationships like you own those connections

00:18:17.860 right because right now if you leave facebook you you're leaving like i leave facebook i'm leaving

00:18:23.520 like 500 connections that i've built up over the years and why is that right so the idea behind

00:18:30.920 Project Liberty is, what we have to do is make the social graph a public good and then see what

00:18:38.980 that unleashes as far as innovation, creativity. Because, you know, one of the things that we're

00:18:45.540 doing is building this protocol on top of the blockchain. Okay. And we're doing that because

00:18:52.560 that allows us to manage identity and manage state in a way that we can't in other places.

00:18:59.420 and it also gives us an avenue to building an ecosystem where we can can really build in

00:19:07.360 incentives for people to come aboard and in that way it's really different than the model that

00:19:14.240 exists in Silicon Valley right which is you know it's about who you know it's about those venture

00:19:19.280 capitalists with the blockchain what we we have the opportunity for like you can invest in the

00:19:26.720 project that you're interested in we're going to take advantage of that right and and figure out

00:19:32.460 some ways to like i said create those incentives to bring different types of people um into this

00:19:39.400 uh in a way that we can't now um with the with the current system yeah i mean when people hear

00:19:45.780 things like blockchain i feel like automatically what you conjure up is like bros talking about

00:19:51.720 crypto and i i do wish that we could broaden the conversation to folks who are doing things like

00:19:57.580 yourself to bring more people in to try to build more equitable systems and you know kind of build

00:20:04.440 that into it i wish i wish that it was something that had a it was it didn't automatically conjure

00:20:11.540 up the bros talking crypto but it conjured up what you're talking about you know but that i think like

00:20:18.120 That's the opportunity that we have right now, right? Because what we have to do with this project is create this diverse coalition of people who are going to support it. And I don't just mean people of color or women or LGBTQ. I mean diversity of thought, right?

00:20:37.280 Like, one of the issues with technology right now is that, like, it's a certain type of person with a certain type of background who's creating all of these apps and programs.

00:20:48.640 And so, naturally, that's going to, you know, impact how and what they create.

00:20:54.520 And also, like, we've seen it with, you know, what's happened with some of the social networks that are out there.

00:21:02.440 A lot of the impacts that we're experiencing, you know, they weren't unknown.

00:21:06.600 it was because like people who had the knowledge weren't included in the conversation right and so

00:21:14.360 um that's what we are that's a part of project liberty we know we have to to create we have to

00:21:21.560 create this community that includes as much different expertise and background and experience

00:21:28.600 as possible because that's the only way we're going to be able to create something that's

00:21:32.540 usable by, you know, us all. Um, I, I, I almost, I almost heard snapping and then I remembered

00:21:39.780 we're recording a podcast. I mean, that's it, right? That's like, I have said this so many

00:21:45.700 times on the show, people are probably rolling their eyes, but the reason why we need to make

00:21:49.820 sure tech and the people that build it, tech leadership are inclusive, not just because it's,

00:21:55.020 it's the good, the nice thing to do, which it is. It's because the folks who are building these

00:21:59.160 tools and these platforms that dictate so much about our world, if they're all homogenous, 1.00

00:22:05.540 there's a big chance for harm, right? And we know that harm will be focused on people who

00:22:11.560 are already marginalized. And so it's not just a nice to have. Exactly, exactly. So I guess I have

00:22:18.800 to ask, given all that and given what we know about the state of, you know, technology and

00:22:25.760 platforms. Are you like hopeful about the future of the web, the future of the internet, the future

00:22:31.160 of platforms? Like, do you feel like you are thinking that things on the horizon are going

00:22:36.100 to be better or going to be worse? Like what's your, what's your take? Oh, I think things are

00:22:40.560 going to be better. I like, you know, maybe like a year or two ago, I would have said something

00:22:46.000 different, but I think the level of awareness that people have on the impact that technology

00:22:52.640 is having on their lives has shifted in a really significant way and people are ready to you know

00:23:00.260 I think like um when like the iPhone came about and Facebook became like a dominant mode of

00:23:10.040 communication people were just like yeah this works this is how it goes and yeah I'll give up

00:23:15.200 my data because everything's free right but now a few years in people are like what does that mean

00:23:21.100 And so there are really, really meaningful conversations happening right now in spaces that I didn't think they would take place in.

00:23:31.020 Like, OK, I was listening to a basketball podcast and they started talking about blockchain and NFT.

00:23:38.840 Right. And like it was just like like it just made me realize how like this stuff is just everywhere, everywhere, everywhere.

00:23:46.100 and and and i think it's everywhere and the level of understanding is a level deeper than it was

00:23:53.180 maybe a year or two ago and so like we have a real opportunity to to share with people and say like

00:23:58.740 hey you know what if you're looking for something different we have something different and for them

00:24:03.640 to be able to understand it right and and like i just don't mean project liberty i think there's

00:24:08.480 all kinds of projects and people who have this opportunity right now.

00:24:15.860 I agree with you. I mean, I think it's easy to feel dejected and downtrodden and depressed,

00:24:23.380 you know, when you look at the state of the internet. But I think that like, like you said,

00:24:27.500 that you were describing the early crew of internet weirdos. And I just think that there's

00:24:32.140 something about it when you bring a bunch of weird, like people who are committed to thinking

00:24:37.200 differently together, I believe in the power of that.

00:24:40.720 I believe that that gives me a lot of hope.

00:24:43.900 So that's really nice.

00:24:47.140 More after a quick break.

00:24:54.680 Behind every night spent making the kids lunches, there's a lot of suspense.

00:24:58.940 Will they finally eat the veggies?

00:25:00.420 Will the pesto survive the first bite?

00:25:02.460 Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all?

00:25:06.320 And will you finish Episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers?

00:25:10.460 Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Crave, Netflix, and Disney Plus

00:25:13.600 from $94 a month, price guaranteed for two years on Internet

00:25:16.900 with a two-year term and auto-pay credit.

00:25:19.180 Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability.

00:25:21.880 Bell. Connection is everything.

00:25:24.260 Run a business and not thinking about podcasting?

00:25:26.920 Think again.

00:25:27.900 More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music

00:25:30.940 from Spotify and Pandora.

00:25:32.200 And as the number one podcaster,

00:25:33.960 iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined.

00:25:36.780 So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message.

00:25:39.720 Plus, only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio.

00:25:43.940 Think podcasting can help your business?

00:25:45.820 Think iHeart.

00:25:46.860 Streaming, radio, and podcasting.

00:25:48.940 Call 844-844-iHeart to get started.

00:25:52.080 That's 844-844-iHeart.

00:25:54.520 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality,

00:25:58.940 welcome home.

00:26:00.440 This is Prose Society,

00:26:02.220 the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters,

00:26:06.880 pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the

00:26:11.200 same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books,

00:26:16.620 the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.

00:26:20.040 I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. So obsessed.

00:26:23.620 From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments,

00:26:28.480 nothing is off the table.

00:26:29.960 It's like if you can hide some real messages

00:26:32.840 inside compelling characters,

00:26:35.540 then that is a Trojan horse.

00:26:37.420 Whether you're looking for literary deep dives,

00:26:39.600 smart pop culture conversations,

00:26:41.440 or a community of readers who love to think

00:26:43.620 a little too much, you're in the right place.

00:26:46.640 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app,

00:26:49.600 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:26:52.700 See you between the pages.

00:26:54.660 When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped.

00:26:58.040 and held captive for nine months.

00:27:00.540 I survived, and I've spent my life exploring

00:27:03.160 how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

00:27:06.900 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.

00:27:10.600 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear 0.96

00:27:15.260 saying, shut up, don't say anything.

00:27:18.780 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. 0.98

00:27:22.940 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.

00:27:27.700 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.

00:27:35.300 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:27:39.180 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

00:27:42.640 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:27:46.280 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app,

00:27:51.040 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:27:57.700 let's get right back into it um i have one more question for you so i know that you're a musician

00:28:04.900 you're a drummer for the transmissions the transmission the transmissions wow thank

00:28:11.160 oh my god not to like put you on the spot but i also sound like you were like playing south by

00:28:17.640 southwest in 2006 like early days i mean talk about like being foundational to all these different

00:28:22.760 places i guess my question is like do you see you know you were talking about sort of like the

00:28:28.260 creativity and the innovation of um the internet like do you are those things related to you like

00:28:33.440 the creativity and the um you know the the creativity of being a musician and making

00:28:39.520 music and making things creatively like are are these sort of like is it a venn diagram for you

00:28:44.360 are they related oh my god like you read my mind right there bridget it it totally is like for me

00:28:52.100 it's my experience playing music was part of what fueled the way that i could think about

00:29:01.620 technology it was just like uh i don't know if other musicians or creative people have this

00:29:08.600 experience but like i i really was conscious of using like a different part of myself in my brain

00:29:15.320 when i was playing drums and performing and stuff and it just let me and helped me like access some

00:29:22.000 different things when I actually like went to work right like I you know learning how to perform

00:29:28.960 I use that stuff every day I really really do like in meetings and stuff right um the I mean

00:29:37.940 like just like real basic like the experience of like getting to South by Southwest with my band

00:29:43.740 mates like what an incredible experience for us like what a confidence booster for us you know

00:29:49.500 like we did that ourselves you know what I mean and so like yeah all of this stuff is additive

00:29:55.660 and then like like just like on the plane of like thinking about how to build things creatively and

00:30:02.940 collaborating with people like I I draw so much from you know the bands that I played with the

00:30:10.560 collectives that I've been in to to the tech that I work in it's it's there's totally a line

00:30:16.860 for me there. Women like Denise are what makes me excited to tell the stories of all the

00:30:23.800 underrepresented voices and identities behind tech and the internet, and the ways we were always

00:30:28.440 there, working to make things better, more inclusive, more creative, even if our stories

00:30:34.340 go overlooked and not often told. And I'm so excited to join Women Like Denise for my very

00:30:39.600 first ever live There Are No Girls on the Internet taping on September 23rd and 24th at Unfinished 1.00

00:30:45.440 Live. Unfinished Live is a convening of technologists, journalists, artists, and changemakers

00:30:50.400 in person at The Shed in New York City and virtually online. It'll be two days of talks

00:30:55.780 about how we can all use ethical tech to build a fairer economy and a stronger democracy,

00:31:00.420 alongside leading minds shaping that future. Just go to live.unfinished.com and use promo

00:31:05.680 code TANGOTI. That's T-A-N-G-O-T-I. And I can't wait to see y'all there. 0.99

00:31:10.440 Thank you.

00:31:40.440 For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:32:10.440 the Survivor Files. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted,

00:32:16.820 stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out

00:32:22.520 alive. Listen to the Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

00:32:29.320 or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally

00:32:33.920 important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club,

00:32:40.180 part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island

00:32:43.420 deserve the same level of discourse.

00:32:45.540 Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture

00:32:49.020 with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions.

00:32:53.780 Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.

00:32:55.560 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

00:32:59.280 or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:33:03.360 Hey, this is Hayes Davenport.

00:33:05.240 And Sean Clements.

00:33:06.460 We host the podcast Hollywood Handbook.

00:33:08.660 Every episode, we're trying to help our guests improve their careers

00:33:11.020 by mainly focusing on how they can help us improve our careers.

00:33:14.540 The show's famously super accessible,

00:33:16.220 so you can easily jump into any of our 650 episodes

00:33:19.100 and understand what's going on.

00:33:20.660 We recommend some of our recent episodes with Ben Stiller,

00:33:23.120 Danny McBride, Riz Ahmed, and Mary Steenburgen.

00:33:25.500 Listen to Hollywood Handbook on the iHeartRadio app,

00:33:28.420 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:33:31.700 I'm Nick Turturro.

00:33:32.720 You probably know me from NYPD Blue, The Longest Yard,

00:33:35.960 or Spike Lee's Black Klansman.

00:33:37.500 And on my new podcast, Delivering Happiness with Nick Turturro, I deliver pizza to a new guest.

00:33:42.760 I've shared a slice with everyone, from Seth Rollins.

00:33:45.400 What are you doing with my belt?

00:33:46.660 To Bill Burr.

00:33:47.540 I don't think I've ever met somebody so exactly out of their mind as I am.

00:33:52.640 And now, we even have more great guests coming up, including the great John Turturro.

00:33:57.300 It's called happiness.

00:33:58.380 Delivering happiness.

00:33:59.460 And many, many more.

00:34:00.900 Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Delivering Happiness with Nick Turturro, and listen now.

00:34:06.180 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:34:08.720 Guaranteed human.

There Are No Girls on the Internet - September 21, 2021

She shaped the early days of the internet. Now she’s making it even better.

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