00:01:41.980Just a heads up, this episode deals pretty heavily with sexual assault.
00:01:46.680Because right now, my question to the Eastern District is how many other sexual assault cases are sitting on your docket that you refuse to bring to trial?
00:02:05.180There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.
00:02:13.280I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.
00:02:18.440So on the show, we talk a lot about how it's often marginalized people who make technology safer for everyone.
00:02:24.760and how it comes at a huge personal cost.
00:02:28.480But too often, we do not hear these stories.
00:02:32.260Last year, the rideshare app Lyft released a report on the number of people sexually assaulted in rideshares.
00:02:38.980Now, they didn't just do this out of concern for public safety.
00:02:42.160It was because of pressure generated by survivors.
00:02:45.660Survivors like Allison Turcos, who was suing both Lyft and the New York Police Department.
00:02:51.680On October 14, 2017, after a night out with friends, Allison hailed a Lyft to get back to her Brooklyn apartment.
00:02:58.980When she noticed the driver was taking her in the wrong direction, she thought maybe he was trying to scam her out of $20 or $30.
00:03:05.260She tried to hop out of the car at a red light, but realized the child locks were on.
00:03:10.160And when the driver pulled out a gun, she realized this wasn't just a scam.
00:03:15.180The Lyft driver brought her across state lines from New York to New Jersey, where he held her at gunpoint, raped her, and stood by as two other men did too.0.88
00:06:48.920and I think it just when I think about that time and I'm you know working through this in therapy
00:06:58.320it's just I just mourn for myself because I think about like what would it look like if this hadn't
00:07:05.720happened and what would it look what would my friendships look like what would my potential
00:07:10.000romantic relationships look like what would my relationship with my family look like because
00:07:15.160my relationship with my family has been incredibly impacted by this. My relationships with my
00:07:21.220friends has been impacted. Um, and so I think it's just the idea of, um, I really just try to
00:07:31.940practice so much compassion and grace and patience for myself, um, and to always hold space for the
00:07:37.800fact that, um, I was a different person before I got into a car, um, in October of 2017 and
00:07:46.400something incredibly traumatic happened and it's okay because that's what violence does to a
00:07:52.660person. Um, and the way that I, I really talk about it often or think about it often is that
00:07:57.360like when a bomb goes off inside of a room, um, those walls fall back and, you know, a house might
00:08:05.200crumble or, you know, the structure, that scaffolding might be left. But when a person's
00:08:12.700body experiences violence or particularly when what happens to me, you know, I have no physical
00:08:20.480scars. My body is still intact. And it's really hard because sometimes you might look at me and
00:08:28.940you might think she's fine. Or, you know, I might meet people today and they will have no idea
00:08:34.180unless they google me or I decide to disclose what happened to me they would just think that
00:08:39.000I am a quote-unquote like normal 33 year old woman who was living her best life and I just
00:08:44.460think that unless you know someone knows my story you know the amount of violence that I have
00:08:51.460experienced in my life particularly in the year of 2017 like how much violence can a body withstand
00:08:58.360and I think myself and many other survivors and victims can say you know sometimes our bodies
00:09:03.880know no bounds because we are able, you know, it's why we identify as survivors.
00:09:09.120If you're in a room with five women, statistically, one of them has survived an attempted sexual
00:09:14.100assault or rape. There are so many of us. Some who speak openly about their experiences
00:09:19.820and others who don't. That was something that really helped put things in sharper focus for me.
00:09:27.460How many of us are out there and that you would just think, this is someone living their best
00:09:32.560life. It's the carefree, joyful human in the world, but we're all carrying these stories with
00:09:40.340us. It's so many of us. And I think when you really contend with the scope of how many people
00:09:49.120are out there that are survivors and that you would never know, it makes me on the one hand
00:09:55.740enraged, like how much can a body take? But on the other hand, I'm like, we are an army.
00:10:01.920it's all it's all of us it's so many of us we are an army in 2011 i helped to organize uh0.65
00:10:10.000the slut walk in new york city and i organized that as an ally i did not identify as a survivor
00:10:16.300and i was doing a lot of work to dismantle rape culture but was so distanced from the sexual0.76
00:10:22.420assault that i had experienced in high school and the sexual assault that i experienced four
00:10:25.560years earlier in college and was like marching in the streets, screaming about, you know,
00:10:33.400that no matter what you wear, it does not mean that you should, you know, that you are welcoming
00:10:39.320sexual assault, et cetera. And that if you decide to report to the police, police should no matter
00:10:46.160what, but be treating you with dignity and respect and trust. And it wasn't until like early fall
00:10:55.480of 2017 that I really started to, with the help of an incredible therapist, um, realize that like
00:11:03.260deeply, deeply down in the depth of my brain and my body, because as we all know, the body keeps
00:11:08.860score, um, that I had experienced sexual assault earlier in my life and had just, um, you know,
00:11:15.200was sort of like, this is over here. I'm not going to touch it. And the thing that I think about is
00:11:19.560that, you know, survivors look like your best friend, they look like your mom, they look like
00:11:26.920your brother, you know, your boss, you know, the elected official sitting next to you. And the
00:11:33.540thing that I think about so often is that, you know, survivors never owe you a disclosure.
00:11:38.800And I think that in a lot of the organizing work that I do, this is really important to me to
00:11:44.680always remember is that we don't owe you our stories. And that, you know, given the rates
00:11:53.400of sexual abuse in this country, in the world globally, and how underreported we know that
00:12:01.080sexual assault and rape is, that you very often should assume that you are holding space and
00:12:08.100community with a survivor. And so when you, you know, you could be at a dinner party, you could
00:12:14.940be at, you know, your child's school at a school board meeting and talking about, you know,
00:12:20.260everything from dress code to, you know, like what does sexual assault reporting look like to
00:12:26.180even in your workplace and talking about workplace harassment. And you should always be operating
00:12:31.340under the assumption that there is a survivor sitting next to you or that the person in power
00:12:37.180is a survivor, no matter, in my opinion, how they might be, the words that they might be choosing
00:12:44.120to use, because sometimes, as we know, trauma responses can get the best of us. But just the
00:12:49.060idea that just because someone has never told you verbatim that they are a survivor of sexual
00:12:56.000assault or harassment or rape does not mean that that is an experience that they have had.
00:13:01.000I am here today not because I want to be. I am terrified. I am here because I believe it is my civic duty to tell you what happened to me while Brett Kavanaugh and I were in high school.
00:13:14.060During the confirmation hearing of Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh back in 2018, Christine Blasey Ford testified that Kavanaugh raped her when they were in high school.
00:13:23.180Her story was powerful, and she talked about the personal cost to both her and her family in speaking up about it.
00:13:28.920But in the end, Kavanaugh was still confirmed.
00:13:33.060We live in a world that asks survivors to recount the stories of their trauma and their pain over and over and over again to get justice, whatever that even looks like.
00:13:44.000After Allison was raped, she reported what happened to the police and to Lyft.
00:13:48.860Something that I feel like we tell survivors is that if you tell your story again and again and again in the right ways to the right people, that is the way that you can sort of get justice.
00:13:59.800And we sort of say that with kind of a, I guess, callous disregard for the fact that what we're really telling people is like relive your trauma over and over and over again.
00:14:15.740I can only imagine what it has been like to relive this painful, traumatic experience over and over again, but then not get any kind of satisfying outcome, not get any kind of, even just a reply back to an email.
00:14:38.240I think one of the things that I, upon like deep reflection every single time that I think about, you know, why I chose to report in the reporting process, you know, in high school, I didn't tell anyone.
00:14:52.340I didn't tell my parents. I didn't tell friends. In college, same thing. My rapist in college was on an athletic team.
00:14:58.740And so I was sort of operating under the assumption that because he was in a position of power on campus and he would be more likely to be believed.
00:15:05.940And so then in 2017, because I had had some significant memory loss and, you know, I thought, and I sort of emphasized that because I was really, there was an assumption that, you know, because this was a Lyft driver and because I had a copy of the map and because I had a photo of him and because I had his taxi and limo commission license number because in New York City,
00:15:33.820in order to drive a ride share, Uber or Lyft, you have to be licensed with the TLC commission.
00:15:40.140And I had his license plate number. And so because I had all of that information and a map of our
00:15:46.800ride that I was literally handing the New York Police Department Special Victims Division,
00:15:52.660like an open and close case is an assumption that I was making. And, you know, when I made the
00:16:00.600difficult decision to have a rape kit done, uh, which I had never done before. Um, you know,
00:16:05.360and, and we later found out that there was DNA in my kit. Um, once again, I was sort of operating
00:16:11.540under the assumption that like, this was going to be easy. Um, I'm not a police officer nor have I
00:16:18.160ever, you know, investigated a case, but, um, I just thought that this would be relatively easy.
00:16:24.780Um, and then, you know, less than a month in what I started to realize was that it was going to
00:16:30.380become my second full-time job to hold this particular detective, her name was Maria
00:16:36.700Quinones out of the New York, um, Brooklyn special victims division to respond to an email,
00:16:43.760to return a phone call, um, to, you know, like, should I, and then it became one of those moments
00:16:50.520of, you know, like, if I text her, is that me bothering her? And so then should I not text her?
00:16:56.940should I only email her? If I call her too many times, is she going to get annoyed with me?
00:17:01.220And the idea of like the like brain gains that as a rape victim mere weeks after my sexual assault
00:17:09.640and kidnapping that I had to play in order to like get my detective to like me enough to have
00:17:15.480to respond to me is just horrifying. And then as weeks went on and she would do things like0.92
00:17:24.760withhold certain info. Like we got the results of my read kit in December of 2017. And she would
00:17:30.420tell me certain information, but not tell me all information and would withhold certain information.
00:17:36.300And then I would think, you know, like, okay, so I need to act a certain way in order for her to,
00:17:42.200to tell me certain things. And, um, in, um, March of 2018, we had a meeting on March 18th of 2018.
00:17:50.200And that was when she had disclosed the majority of my rape kit results, which had disclosed that there were multiple semen samples found in my rape kit, which had then alerted us to the fact that it was a gang rape and that there were multiple perpetrators who had assaulted me that night.
00:18:06.320And I started to cry. I started to show an emotion because I did not at that point in time remember the assault, but I was getting information and I did not have a memory to attach to that to that gang rape.
00:18:21.280and the special victims detective said, this is clearly making you upset. It seems like I
00:18:26.940shouldn't tell you things about your case because I don't want to upset you. And so then what that
00:18:32.420signified to me as a victim was never show emotion to law enforcement, because if you show emotion to
00:18:37.120law enforcement, then they're going to withhold vital information to you about your case. And so
00:18:41.440now four years later, I am incredible. I have a very difficult time showing emotion. I'm like
00:18:48.240still working on this in therapy and still working on this with my friends, because if I show emotion,
00:18:55.000then I think that people either won't believe me. I think that people will find me to be difficult.
00:19:00.400And I think that people will never give me information that I believe is my right.
00:20:56.780Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place.
00:21:06.400Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:23:01.480In April of 2018, the New York Police Department Special Victims Division
00:23:07.840and along with a couple of advocates in the city had an open forum in a Williamsburg hotel.
00:23:15.060I can't remember if it was the White Hotel or where it was.
00:23:16.920and it was on a thursday night and i had it was my last session i was in a rape survivor group
00:23:23.840therapy um in a uh yeah a survivor support group and i literally jumped in a cab from the financial
00:23:31.800district and took it to williamsburg and walked in like an hour late to this forum and paul
00:23:37.660saracino who was the deputy inspector of uh special victims at the time was stood up and
00:23:43.100said to the group and basically said, you know, like the New York special victims division is
00:23:47.080here. We are here for rape victims. We have all the resources. We want you to report. Um, the
00:23:53.380thing I think that is important is that in October of 2017, the Harvey Weinstein news had just broke.
00:23:59.060And so my story is parallel to the resurgence of Toronto Burke's Me Too movement. And so like the
00:24:06.020day that I was getting a rape kit done, October 16th of 2017, is when Alyssa Milano was literally
00:24:13.300using the hashtag, Toronto Birks hashtag, me too. And so as this is happening and the world is
00:24:22.580breaking open with people's stories, I'm living that in real time. And so in April of 2017,
00:24:29.740when this is happening, Paul Saraceno is on a mic and is saying like, the New York Police
00:24:35.180department is ready. Like come, we are ready for you. And I, they were open. The public was allowed
00:24:42.960to ask questions and I wrote anonymously on a index card and I submitted it. And, um, Emily
00:24:51.220Gallagher, who at that point in time was running the Greenpoint, um, sexual assault advocacy
00:24:55.940organization. She's now an elected official. Thank you. Um, Emily Gallagher read it and she said,
00:25:01.520This is from an audience member and she read it verbatim and the card said, I have an open and active case with Brooklyn special victims and I don't understand how you can stand in front of us and tell us that you are ready, you know, to meet us with resources when I can't even get my detective to answer a fucking email or answer my phone call.
00:25:21.480And the audience like was silent for maybe like two seconds and then just like you could hear them all take a deep breath and then they just started to clap.
00:25:28.940and paul saracino who's a you know a deputy inspector with the new york police department
00:25:33.880didn't know what to do and basically was like come find me afterwards i want to talk to you
00:25:39.260and i was like okay this is the next step of me doing another job and i approached him and i said
00:25:45.720i'm not ready to tell you my name i'm not ready to tell you my detective's name like i think i
00:25:51.540know what this is going to look like but i'm not there yet and he gave me his card and then two
00:25:56.620days later, I emailed him and I was on the phone with him for 45 minutes and I filed an official
00:26:01.480complaint against Maria Quinones. And then two days later, my case was transferred. And then I
00:26:07.700filed a complaint with the civilian complaint review board. And then they came back and said
00:26:12.080that they were going to put a more efficient detective on my case, which at that point in
00:26:15.680time, they already had. I did not find that to be efficient. And as if there had been, because I mean,
00:26:21.720again this is incredibly long-winded but like Maria Quinones had lost video evidence so like
00:26:27.660a part of my case is that I was kidnapped from Brooklyn to New Jersey that involves going through
00:26:33.980the Holland Tunnel New York City is a police state there is surveillance everywhere right
00:26:39.540and so like there is video evidence of me in the Holland Tunnel in the back of this man's car
00:26:44.520there is police evidence or there's video evidence of me and in Liberty State Park which is a New
00:26:49.680Jersey State Park. There's video evidence of me there. Maria Quinones neglected to do her job
00:26:55.120and lost video evidence and a slew of other things that were done. And so I filed a civilian0.65
00:27:04.040complaint review board, a complaint with the CCRB, and did not feel that they had done a
00:27:10.260satisfactory investigation. I then elevated that to the IAB, the Internal Affairs Bureau. I did not
00:27:16.940feel that they had done a satisfactory investigation again, because how can police
00:27:20.880hold themselves accountable? And then I went to the Department of Investigation and I filed a
00:27:26.240complaint against her with the DOI. And then finally, once I felt that DOI had not done
00:27:30.480a proper investigation, because again, how can police hold themselves accountable or investigate
00:27:35.620themselves? I then made the decision to file a lawsuit against the NYPD. So why did you file
00:27:40.960that lawsuit? The reason why I wanted to file that lawsuit was because I am a white, cis,
00:27:49.340queer, but straight passing woman. And when I stand up in a room and say to Paul Saraceno,
00:27:55.460or when I stand up anywhere at a press conference on this podcast, anywhere, and I say, fuck cops,0.99
00:28:01.040my anger is going to be valid. Because when I say those things, no one is going to take into0.99
00:28:09.380account the color of my skin. I'm not going to fall into an angry black woman trope. The way
00:28:13.960that I was treated when I reported, I carry all of the privileges in the world and the amount of
00:28:22.080time and energy and mental capacity and emotional capacity that it took for me to fight and to hold
00:28:28.540the NYPD accountable is not possible for a single mother with two children who's working multiple
00:28:35.060jobs. It's not possible for someone who is a sex worker and was sexually assaulted by a client of
00:28:41.620theirs. And I'm not going to say that it's not possible that they don't have the capacity to do
00:28:46.040that, but the system is not meant for us as survivors. The system is meant to exhaust us
00:28:54.300out of existence. And I decided to literally say, go fuck yourself and watch me. Try me,1.00
00:29:02.300please. Because at every single turn, whatever you want to do, pile it the fuck on.0.98
00:29:09.480Because there are so many people behind me who do not have the support system because my friends0.75
00:29:15.180are amazing, who do not have the time. At that point in time, I was gainfully employed and I
00:29:19.480had a flexible work schedule. So I could try to file a foil for what's called my DD5, which is
00:29:25.840your case file. And I could figure out how to navigate the system, which is literally impossible.
00:29:33.720And the final option was like, fuck it, I'm going to file a lawsuit. I want to see every single0.97
00:29:38.580thing, every single decision-making process, how you decided to put her in a position of power,
00:29:44.020all of these things. Show me. And so I filed a lawsuit on January 31st of 2019 because I was
00:29:52.740like we deserve better and if this is how you're treating a college educated white woman how the0.66
00:30:00.040fuck are you treating marginalized communities folks who don't speak english undocumented folks0.99
00:30:05.860sex workers trans women of color so i'm going to spend my privilege and do everything that i can0.99
00:30:13.360because while i do not believe for everyone that reporting to the police or involving police in
00:30:21.040your, you know, in your sexual assault experience might not be the best option. And I understand
00:30:27.680that. But for some people, going to the police is going to be something that they want. And if
00:30:32.880that's what a survivor wants to do, I want them to be treated with nothing but dignity and respect
00:30:37.620and trust. I want them to walk into a police precinct and to be believed. The entire process
00:30:43.380has been dehumanizing and disrespectful. For instance, after her assault, Lyft even charged
00:30:49.440Allison for the ride. In an open letter to the federal prosecutors who declined to take up her
00:30:54.960case, Allison recounts that they asked questions like, why was she comfortable recounting her gang
00:31:02.060rape? And they asked what, quote, sexual positions, she recalled. There are no sexual positions in a
00:31:09.080rape, she wrote. It's an assault. It is brutal. It is penetration by force. It is not sex.0.99
00:32:30.860I think about it sort of like an HR in any, you know, company or office space.
00:32:34.700It's like HR is not there to protect the workers. HR is there to protect the company. And the police are there to protect themselves. Police unions are some of the most powerful unions in the country, and they are there to protect themselves.
00:32:47.560and for me it's just the idea of like it took me a while to get here but it was when I changed my
00:32:58.380thinking from being an individual and thinking about like this happened to me this I am an
00:33:04.700individual this happened to me and flipping that and thinking about this in terms of systems
00:33:09.520and thinking about the fact and I again I acknowledge that like there are community
00:33:15.220organizers there are like black folks and organizers who have been doing this and thinking
00:33:19.840about this for years and a lot of that like systemic work came from like folks of color black
00:33:27.500folks in my life who had been doing that for years especially like a lot of my work come I like
00:33:32.800started in the abortion rights world and so in the idea of like you know I can think of like where I
00:33:39.060learned this but the term of like a right doesn't mean shit if you can't access it your right to
00:33:43.720abortion does not mean jack shit if you cannot access an abortion and so like that was one of0.95
00:33:49.040the first times that I ever thought about something systemically and so then it was just the idea of0.96
00:33:54.100like when it came to me attempting to do this work and thinking about okay so like I walked in
00:34:00.940to a hospital I guess it really started like when I contacted Lyft that later that night and you
00:34:08.140know the only thing that I could do was like open an app and like file a written complaint and then
00:34:13.560like a couple minutes later, I was like, well, I've had vaginal bleeding and discomfort and I'm
00:34:18.260looking at this map and I was taking to an entirely different borough and state. So none of those
00:34:23.020things sit right with me. So I'm going to call their like internal 911 customer service.
00:34:28.600And this person on the phone is just like, okay, well, we will refund you like $93 and 11 cents or
00:34:34.920whatever, but we're still going to charge you $12 and 81 cents because that's what the ride from
00:34:40.220Crown Heights to Williamsburg would have been. That was the original ride, Crown Heights,
00:34:43.440Brooklyn to Williamsburg, Brooklyn. And in that moment, I was like, okay, sure. Because I guess
00:34:49.300in reality, I did get picked up in Crown Heights and I did go home to Williamsburg, but there was
00:34:54.000just like 80 minutes of ride in between and 22 minutes of a stop in a park. But sure lift,
00:35:04.860You go ahead and you make that profit. Got it. Sure. And then, you know, on Monday morning on the 16th of October in 2017, when I walked into a hospital and, you know, had a rape kit done and, you know, talked to four beat cops and then had to carry my own rape kit because the cop forgot it on the chair in the room and I grabbed it and then had a police escort outside of the hospital, walking out of the hospital with my best friend Morgan.
00:35:31.960And we're standing outside of a marked police car and Morgan and I get put into a marked police car as if we are criminals. And then my rape kit sits shotgun while we ride to the Brooklyn Special Victims Division in Prospect Heights and then talk to this detective.
00:35:52.100and it's just you know when i think about it now i just think of like it's very sad when i say this
00:36:00.840but like this happens on a daily basis there are so many victims this happens to like i was just
00:36:05.580looking at the at the crime stats that um new york city put out and i think it's uh 1241 rates
00:36:13.560have been reported in new york city so far this year and so that's 1241 people who have reported
00:36:22.040to the NYPD so far. And so then when you think about it in terms like that, and like a couple
00:36:28.080weeks later, I got a first, I got a bill for my rape kit. And so it's just the idea of like,
00:36:33.440the system is not seeing you as a person. They don't see you as a three-dimensional human.
00:36:39.940They don't see you as someone who like has to pay your bills, has to raise your kids,
00:36:44.960has to exist in the world. It's just like churning you through. And so when I think about it in terms
00:36:52.940of the idea of like, I am not alone. This happened to me, but I am not alone. And in order for there
00:37:00.260to be like true change, it doesn't matter that like I called my credit card company and then
00:37:05.760they had a contact lift and like get that refund. And I had a fight with Eric Schneiderman, who at
00:37:11.540that point in time was the attorney general and like a garbage human and a serial perpetrator of0.98
00:37:15.660of abuse to get refunded for my rape kit but like if I bang on that door and like make my voice heard0.99
00:37:25.080and like do not shut the fuck up the next time that someone in billing sees this code whatever0.88
00:37:35.060the code is xxx yyy whatever it is for a rape kit it's going to be flagged because they're going to1.00
00:37:40.140be like that motherfucking asshole, Alison Turcos. Like I, yep. Okay. We don't need another person1.00
00:37:46.300coming here and banging on our door. Okay. Nope. Okay. Flag. No one's ever getting billed for a
00:37:51.900rape kit from New York Presbyterian ever again. Got it. And I think for me, it's like, that's0.99
00:37:57.840where my strength comes from is the idea of like, I have now, I just think that like the system is
00:38:05.860fucked beyond reason and if we can just start to make like what I refer to as like relentless
00:38:11.280incrementalism like I want to bulldoze everything I want to like burn it to the ground but like0.84
00:38:16.480it's not always it's not always possible um so I think it's that like really uh reframing my
00:38:22.100mind to think about it in terms of systems and then I think the other thing is like I have an
00:38:25.740incredible I like literally could cry thinking about it I have an incredible incredible group
00:38:29.140of friends. Um, and, uh, like literally just talking about it makes me, um, doesn't make me
00:38:36.480sad. I just, um, I would not be able to do this work, um, without the community that I have. Um,
00:38:45.440my best friend, Morgan was with me the day that I reported and held my hand while I had a kit done.
00:38:49.520Um, and our relationship has really, um, struggled and fractured at points. Um,
00:38:57.780But we have come back together and are even stronger now, which I think is like radical honesty and transparency really got us there.
00:39:05.940And just the idea that like trauma is hard and what it does to people is hard.
00:39:10.620And I went through a phase that I call like my trauma monster phase where I was not kind to myself and to my community.
00:39:18.440And my community really practiced a lot of grace and compassion and patience with me.
00:39:23.620um and friends who just like understand that it is it is impossible it's impossible to to take on
00:39:32.160the largest police force in the country sometimes it is impossible to take on a billion dollar tech
00:39:36.500company um like lyft hired private investigators and who like stood outside my apartment and like
00:39:42.960would photograph me and that's hard you know like it's impossible to be told by the fbi to grow out
00:39:48.880your hair, because you will be more believable if and when your case goes to trial. And that's
00:39:55.400hard. But my friends are just so patient and so supportive. And so that's another place that I
00:40:04.320really get my strength from. I'm so glad you have this community of supportive people to pour into
00:40:09.660you and lift you up. God knows you deserve it. And I'm so happy that you have that. My heart goes
00:40:17.920out to folks who don't feel like they have that, but my God, I'm so happy that you do.
00:40:22.940Yeah. And, um, to piggyback off of that, it's one of the reasons why I like, if I see someone
00:40:28.740on Twitter who shares their story, I will DM them immediately. I don't know them. They are a
00:40:34.620stranger, but because I am so like truly so grateful, I love the term pouring into, um,
00:40:41.260because I am so grateful to have that community. And I know that I would not be where I am today
00:40:45.740without it. I, if I see folks who are sharing their story publicly or like alluding to sharing
00:40:53.100their story or people in my community, like I will get a text from, you know, friends or mutual
00:40:59.240friends and they'll say, Hey, like I know this person, Jane Doe, and she is experiencing sexual
00:41:06.380harassment or like, she's going to report and she's about to walk into a police station and
00:41:10.620she doesn't know what to do. And so now, you know, I am always wanting to pay it forward
00:41:18.020because I cannot fathom what it would be like to do this alone, to report alone, to be a plaintiff
00:41:26.000in a lawsuit alone, to tell friends and family, like to just, to have to like navigate anything
00:41:33.800and to not have support. And so that's one of the reasons why I'm like very open. And I say like,
00:41:39.620my dms are open they're you know on my website there is like a contact me page and like i will
00:41:45.100respond and just anything i will jump on the phone with you we can get on a zoom um you know anything
00:41:51.000that i can do because i truly truly truly would never want someone to feel alone and being a
00:41:57.700survivor of sexual assault can feel so lonely and so isolating more after a quick break
00:43:03.380streaming radio and podcasting call 844-844-IHEART to get started that's 844-844-IHEART
00:43:11.220when i was 14 years old i was kidnapped and held captive for nine months i survived and i've spent
00:43:18.880my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them i'm elizabeth smart
00:43:24.900and these are the survivor files i just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying
00:43:32.560shut up don't say anything every week i'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable
00:43:39.200i knew if he woke up without a doubt he was going to hurt me i started feeling that there was0.90
00:43:47.040someone at the end of my bed and i just started screaming they are abducted stalked controlled
00:43:54.520and nearly silenced but these aren't stories about what's taken from them they're stories
00:44:00.140about what it takes to make it out alive listen to the survivor files with elizabeth smart
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00:44:19.300the weekly podcast that's part book club part group chat for thought daughters pop culture
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00:45:16.700Let's get right back into it. As of right now, federal attorneys have not taken up Allison's
00:45:22.540case. And no charges have been filed against anyone for what happened to her. And she believes
00:45:28.120it has a lot to do with being a, quote, difficult victim. So to this day, the state's attorney,
00:45:35.080they have not, they have just declined to take up your case. Have they given you any kind of
00:45:40.320clear reasoning why that is? No. And so it's not even a state's attorney, it's a federal attorney.
00:45:49.080because, I mean, it's, again, things that I only am slowly starting to learn, because when you
00:45:57.160kidnap someone across state lines, it becomes an automatic federal offense. And so for, my case was
00:46:03.840originally with the Southern District of New York, they declined to prosecute, it was then moved to
00:46:07.760the Eastern District of New York, which is where it's currently sitting. And federal prosecutors,
00:46:13.080Um, it's been with federal prosecutors for over two years now. And, um, I think they have not
00:46:21.560given me a direct answer and their sort of talking point and line item is that, you know,
00:46:26.260they are quote actively investigating it. Um, I don't know what more you need to actively
00:46:31.440investigate. Um, and I think for me, um, the way that I see it is that, you know, I am in their
00:46:39.860mind a quote-unquote difficult victim. I speak really openly about the perfect victim narrative.
00:46:46.760I speak really openly, case in point, what I'm doing today, like I speak really openly about
00:46:51.220what it's like to navigate the system. I speak really openly about, you know,
00:46:55.900misconduct by the New York Police Department. And I speak about, you know, my struggles of,
00:47:03.040you know, what does justice look like? Do I want, is my, you know, quote-unquote desired
00:47:08.340outcome of reporting is my perpetrators being in prison. You know, can you be a, you know,
00:47:15.540prison abolitionist? Can you do, you know, transformative and restorative justice work
00:47:20.020and also be a victim and a witness in a federal crime? Can you hold all of those hard things and
00:47:27.480all of those truths at once? And I think I also am someone who sort of like laughs in the face
00:47:34.580of power. It's a privilege that I hold, but I'm like, great, you're a federal prosecutor.
00:47:40.680I don't know why you think that makes you better than me. Federal prosecutors don't really like
00:47:46.100that. Also, ask me how many fucks I give. And I think that they are used to victims who will sit0.99
00:47:54.080across the table from them and being like, I'm so grateful to you. Thank you so much. Whereas I will
00:47:58.660sit across the table from them and be like, you're doing your job. No one applauds for me when I do
00:48:03.400my job. And I think it's the idea of like, I believe and envision and work towards a world
00:48:11.720where, shout out Sabrina Hersey-Isa, survivors are leaders. Our survivorship is what makes us
00:48:17.740leaders. And we are not charity cases. We are not numbers for your end of year report. Like we
00:48:24.880are the people at the center of everything, including if we decide to file criminal charges,
00:48:32.280We are the ones who get to decide things. Fine. The Constitution is a thing. I get it. It's important. But it was founded on white supremacy and we should just abolish that shit right now. And so to me, it's just the idea of federal prosecutors should be open and honest and transparent and not gatekeep information about our cases from us.
00:48:53.320We should not be like wandering around our apartments and wondering, like, what's the status of my case? Who are the detectives on my case? What is the statute of limitations and when is it going to run out? Like, I wonder, like, am I going to have to write a victim impact statement one day? What is the likelihood of me going to trial?
00:49:08.680Like all of these questions survivors should be empowered with. Because we are most often, particularly in sexual assault, we are the only victims and witnesses to the crime. And yet we are treated and diminished so deeply within the system that by the end of it, we're like, fuck this noise. I don't want to do anything.
00:49:27.020And I think federal prosecutors are really expecting me one day to contact them and to be like, I've had enough. I'm too impatient. I can't wait. We're like, every single three months, I'm going to email them and be like, hey, what's up? What are we doing? Want to jump on the phone? Want to tell me what's happening?
00:49:43.340I don't, you know, like, are you like, what are the key performance indicators of being a federal prosecutor? Because right now, I, my question to the Eastern District is how many other sexual assault cases are sitting on your docket that you refuse to bring to trial? Why not call a grand jury? But they don't like to be asked questions. And I love to ask questions.
00:50:02.120I mean, that's something else that I am so taken by in terms of your story is how many different systems you are asking the hard questions of. Hospital systems, the NYPD, you know, Lyft, like you're actively suing Lyft right now.
00:50:18.560Like, what does it feel like to be hammering to get any kind of accountability from all of these different very powerful, very politically connected, very savvy, very moneyed systems all at once as one person?
00:50:33.900yeah that's an an incredible question and i appreciate you asking it um i think it the
00:50:41.560the question that i just always want to ask is like what is power who has it what is hard power
00:50:48.280what is soft power um i'm always interrogating like capitalism let's look into it um you know
00:50:55.400and i think i i really love to ask like generative questions and so the idea of asking you know folks
00:51:03.760at lyft and um you know particularly the like folks on the board at lyft case in point valerie
00:51:10.420jarrett came from the obama white house really invested and i put your quotes invested and i'm
00:51:17.020not questioning her morals but like really invested in um you know uh work around women
00:51:22.060and girls and gender-based violence sits on the board of lyft has remained silent for years as
00:51:31.340they have come under fire, and as we have all filed lawsuits. And for me, it's just the idea
00:51:37.520of like, can you help me understand what's happening on the inside? Can you help me understand
00:51:43.080like how you can hold these many truths at once? And I think it's the idea of I'm, you know,
00:51:49.960oftentimes people will say, you know, like Alison Turcos is, you know, she's critiquing,
00:51:54.100or she's bulldozing, or she just wants to like burn everything to the ground. And the thing is,
00:51:58.060is like, Lyft has the opportunity to do incredible work. And they are, you know, people use Lyft to
00:52:04.280get to and from, you know, like, I'm sure that like, people on their way to have babies are just
00:52:09.220like ordering a Lyft and getting to, you know, the hospital, they're, you know, taking Lyft,
00:52:13.460you know, to have their abortion, they're taking Lyft, you know, they're, I'm not trying to abolish
00:52:18.520Lyft by any way, shape or form. I'm just wanting to ensure that when you get into a Lyft,
00:52:23.900that people on both sides, both like the workers and the drivers have access to a livable wage
00:52:30.760and benefits. And so like, that's something that I'm trying to cognizantly be really thoughtful
00:52:35.800about. And also that if, and when someone reports a sexual assault to Lyft, how are they being
00:52:43.260treated? Because when I reported mine and my last communication with Lyft was, I'm thinking about
00:52:49.300filing a police report. What does this look like in collaboration with your company? And I said,
00:52:53.900that on Sunday, October 15th, around 7 p.m. my time, and Lyft ghosted me. And I was like,
00:53:01.260hey, dude, what do I do? Like, do you want to file this report? How do I do this? Let's work
00:53:08.060together. At that point in my life, I was like, let's work together. This billion-dollar tech
00:53:13.080company, the police, again, self-growth a lot since then. And Lyft could not fucking respond0.99
00:53:20.440and refuse to respond because they're like, we're not going to do this. But yet now publicly,0.97
00:53:25.020they're like, we will always, you know, work with law enforcement. We're going to do great things.
00:53:30.180And I think it's just the idea that I'm not, again, this comes from an incredible place of
00:53:36.800privilege to say this. I'm not afraid because what do I have to lose? Like, what is Lyft going
00:53:42.320to do to me? Like, do you want to take my life savings? Great. It's not that much or really
00:53:47.740anything like do you want to take like my dignity there's not like I've been sexually assaulted
00:53:54.180three times and the most recent one was a gang rape like what dignity do you think that I have
00:53:58.040and it's just the idea of like what I don't have anything left to give you because when in my
00:54:06.220opinion I'm going to speak from an eye space I don't want to generalize like as a victim of
00:54:09.880sexual assault as a victim of an aggravated kidnapping of kidnapping at gunpoint like the
00:54:15.860things that my perpetrators have said to me, the things that people who have perpetrated violence
00:54:21.820against me, the things that people on the internet, again, don't read the comments, but like will
00:54:26.000comment and say like, you made this up. This isn't true. You're trying to get attention, whatever.
00:54:31.100If leadership at Lyft or board members or shareholders or anyone want to push back against
00:54:37.480me, my question is, is like, who do you protect and who do you serve? What do you want your legacy
00:54:44.120to be. Because I would think that you would want your legacy to be at an organization like we helped
00:54:50.560people get from place A to place B. We're helping transportation to be safer. We're helping to do
00:54:55.300these things. And not during my time on the board, we were sued by thousands of women.0.99
00:58:35.020And by the time they finally published their report showing that 4,158 reports of sexual assault by drivers and riders between the beginning of 2017 and the end of 2019, it was a full three years after the deadline they had set.
00:58:47.700I hate that we live in this world where you as someone who has already been through so much, been harmed, is doing this kind of unpaid, incredibly heavy, thankless work to make Lyft a safer platform for everybody, kind of like against their will.
00:59:08.940Like you're doing this work of like dragging them, kicking and screaming to making their platform safer. And they're a billion dollar tech company and you're just you. And I just, it just, it's, I almost kind of can't wrap my head around it and seeing the, seeing Lyft's posture in public, like when they finally released their, you know, very late report on sexual assaults reported that happened in Lyfts, you know, being like, oh, well, you know, of course we want to have transparency and we care about safe riders.
00:59:38.300And it just kind of erased the fact that it was people like you, Allison, who had to force them to put this report out late, might I add.
00:59:47.140Like, it just erases, or I feel like it's an attempt to erase your voice and all that you've been through because it makes their company look like woke and good and helpful.
00:59:57.240that's that's completely it and i think also they um they will never outside of what i assume is
01:00:07.300like in private slack messages where you know um i always like make a joke to my friends that i
01:00:12.000assume that you know um if we did like a control f in their slack messages for my name it would
01:00:16.960just be um you know a party um but i i think lyft will never ever give credit where credit is due
01:00:26.620And I don't need credit from Lyft. Like, that's not what I want. Because the thing is, is that so much of the work that I do is just the idea of like, you know, it's not going to make my life better. You know, I don't file a lawsuit to make my life better. Because I know, particularly, you know, in putting my name on a lawsuit and being public, I knew that it was, for me, an easy decision.
01:00:51.560because in putting a name and a face to it, to my trauma, it was going to be harder for a
01:00:55.980billion dollar tech company to ignore me. But for so many other people, you know, being that public
01:01:00.300is not a decision, you know, it's not an easy decision. Um, and I think it's just the idea
01:01:06.320that like, you know, I'm suing them. They can't be like, Oh, Alison Turcos, thank you so much
01:01:10.400for all this work that you've done. Um, but I think it's the idea of like, they can never
01:01:15.000acknowledge outside of saying, you know, we had 4,000 sexual assaults between 2017 and 2019.