There Are No Girls on the Internet - August 23, 2023


STRIKE! Writers and actors deserve fair pay! Actor Francesca Ramsey explains how studios weaponize tech against creatives

Topics
Author Jane Friedman vs. the AI scammers who stole her good name on Amazon GoodReads TikTok surveillance plan revealed; Fresh & Fit manosphere podcast demonetized & emasculated; Elon is blocking links and faking followers; Court affirms copyrights are for humans, not AI; and more — NEWS ROUNDUP

Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 10 minutes

Words per minute

168.61

Word count

11,950

Sentence count

828

Harmful content

Misogyny

9

sentences flagged

Toxicity

15

sentences flagged

Hate speech

12

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
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00:00:34.940 I survived nine months in captivity,
00:00:38.460 and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.
00:00:43.680 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.
00:00:47.300 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable,
00:00:51.020 abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:00:54.640 These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:00:58.700 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app,
00:01:03.280 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:06.680 You should be able to make a living off of your work
00:01:09.500 because somebody else is making a living off of your work. 0.99
00:01:17.780 There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.
00:01:24.640 I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.
00:01:31.360 It's been a summer of strikes.
00:01:33.800 And after days of bargaining last week,
00:01:36.260 screenwriters are resuming negotiations
00:01:38.160 with the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers,
00:01:41.800 or the AMPTP, this week.
00:01:44.420 Today is the Day of Solidarity,
00:01:46.120 where labor supporters from across unions and sectors
00:01:48.820 all rallied outside of Disney Studios to show their alliance and unity.
00:01:52.920 because it's not just about Hollywood.
00:01:55.400 It's about an entire country of working people
00:01:57.900 who are fed up with the dynamic
00:01:59.680 where their work is commodified to make someone else rich.
00:02:03.640 Americans from across industries and across the country
00:02:05.980 are fighting for better contracts,
00:02:07.780 better compensation, better working conditions,
00:02:10.020 and importantly, better protections
00:02:12.320 from an encroaching technology like AI.
00:02:15.160 Some of the clearest voices sounding the alarm about AI
00:02:18.480 belongs to creatives.
00:02:20.320 Both striking actors and screenwriters
00:02:22.240 want guardrails around how studios intend to use AI in writers' rooms and on sets.
00:02:27.860 And for actor and writer Francesca Ramsey, technology has been kind of a double-edged sword.
00:02:33.500 It's how she first started her career.
00:02:35.900 But now, she sees the way it's being positioned to threaten the entire industry.
00:02:41.080 My name is Francesca Ramsey, and I'm a TV writer, actress, and author, producer,
00:02:48.720 content creator, multi-hyphenate.
00:02:52.240 That actually was going to be one of my first questions.
00:02:54.440 It's like, I don't know how to describe you because you do all the things.
00:02:58.700 Is that how you describe yourself?
00:03:00.900 Francesca kind of does it all. 0.99
00:03:02.860 And it all started by being an early pioneer of the internet.
00:03:06.220 Yeah, so I learned the phrase multi-hyphenate from someone else and it really spoke to me
00:03:11.740 because I do have so many varied interests and I've been really fortunate to have done
00:03:17.680 a lot of really cool different jobs over the course of my career, especially considering
00:03:22.660 I went to school and I just thought I was going to be an actress. That's what I wanted
00:03:26.540 to do. There was no social media when I was studying in college. Social media came up
00:03:33.800 while I was in school. And so a lot of the work that I do, I didn't know it would be
00:03:39.280 what I would be doing.
00:03:41.120 You've talked about how a lot of your early online internet experiences have really shaped
00:03:47.320 the person that you would become. I've read about how you didn't have a digital camera because it
00:03:52.720 was the 90s, so you were scanning in pictures to make these blogs. Did you ever see this activity
00:03:58.560 leading to the career that you have now? No, absolutely not. I mean, I've always been
00:04:05.960 techie. I went to computer camp when I was in middle school, and I learned HTML. It was a
00:04:14.580 really small camp. There was maybe 20 kids and it was myself and one other girl. It was all boys.
00:04:21.400 And my parents were encouraging, but I definitely remember friends and peers saying like,
00:04:29.820 what are you doing? Why do you care? I had a website that I updated and no one was reading
00:04:37.680 it. It was just me. I had a bootleg of Photoshop that I got from a boy that I had a crush on and
00:04:44.400 I was like scanning my art and clipping together photos. It was just purely because I had a love
00:04:51.380 for creating things. I didn't know, I could have never imagined where it would lead me to.
00:04:58.200 So I really see you and a couple other folks of having this, like, I see y'all as having this
00:05:03.940 like very specific kind of trajectory where it was like all of these very creative, very online
00:05:10.140 young Black women who were, like, of the culture, of the zeitgeist, who were making content online
00:05:17.080 in the early days, right, on platforms like For You, YouTube. And really now, it's like you all
00:05:24.340 saw something that other people didn't see, and you got how to use it in a way that not everyone
00:05:29.400 did. Like, how did that trajectory work for you in your career? It's so... Thank you for saying
00:05:34.800 that. I think that's just always been me. I'll never forget. I think I was in middle school
00:05:42.720 and I got a pair of capri pants from a thrift store and I wore them to school and everyone
00:05:49.940 was like, what's wrong with you? Your pants are short. You're wearing highwaters. What's
00:05:54.420 wrong with you? And then the next year, everyone was wearing capri pants. And I remember being
00:05:59.140 like, you bitches all made fun of me, but I had Capri. And I was like mad about it. I was really 0.99
00:06:06.200 mad. It was like all the Capri sets were very popular. And that moment sticks out in my mind
00:06:13.080 because I felt the same way when I've adapted to technology. I was on YouTube my senior year
00:06:20.420 of college. I was going to school for graphic design. And I remember making these videos and
00:06:26.360 my classmates being like, why? What do you get out of this? I was not making any money. I was not
00:06:32.740 getting jobs because of it. It was truly just a hobby. And so I hope that people see that as
00:06:41.440 inspiration for themselves. You should follow things, not necessarily because it's a trend,
00:06:48.320 but because you have an interest in it and you have to know that when you are following your
00:06:53.320 own path, there are always going to be people that don't get it, but it's your path. And that's
00:06:58.220 why you are following it. So it's really cool to see where the internet is at now. I mean,
00:07:05.420 back in my day, I would have to edit for hours. And now you can go on your phone and you can edit
00:07:12.180 green screen in two seconds. I used to have to put up, hang the green screen in my living room
00:07:18.360 and make sure it was lit the right way because God forbid there's a shadow on the green screen
00:07:22.520 is not going to risk here now. And now you just literally click a button. I feel like a boomer
00:07:29.340 saying this, but I truly, it's mind boggling to me. Editing on a phone? Never in my life did I
00:07:36.680 think that everyone would be an influencer now. Everyone is a filmmaker. And I think it's really
00:07:43.620 cool that it's democratized content creating. It's made it accessible for everyone. And I think
00:07:49.740 that's how it should be. Today, Francesca is a successful writer and actor. You've seen her on
00:07:55.740 shows like Broad City and Superstore. She's in both the Screen Actors Guild, or SAG, and the
00:08:01.300 Writers Guild of America, or WGA. And both unions are currently on strike. Now, even though we might
00:08:07.360 have this idea that the actors that we see on screen are all fabulously wealthy, Francesca says
00:08:13.240 that it's not really the case. I had a conversation with somebody that I respect recently, and I was
00:08:19.640 shocked that some of the things she was saying about the strike I was shocked to hear and it
00:08:25.820 was things like well you know when I hear what Hollywood writers are making it seems like good
00:08:30.860 money to me like what like why should they be like like why should they be striking like you know
00:08:36.640 that's I would love to make that kind of money and I had this realization that I think that people
00:08:41.740 might have a misconception that if you are involved in the entertainment industry that
00:08:46.720 you're automatically, you're making millions of dollars and you're set.
00:08:51.020 It's absolutely not true. I wish it was true.
00:08:54.800 Same. I mean, I, you know, I started online and then I got the opportunity to move into TV
00:09:01.760 and a big part of my desire to move into TV was looking for stability. And I was very quickly
00:09:09.520 surprised to learn that as fortunate as I was to transition into this career, it wasn't as stable
00:09:17.040 as I thought it would be. And the money wasn't as good. And once I got into the career, all of my
00:09:22.920 peers and coworkers were like, yeah, girl, it's hard out here. That's why we all have 80 jobs.
00:09:28.340 That's why you see us on Instagram slinging, you know, teeth whitening strips, like I got to pay
00:09:33.460 bills, you know? And the reality is for TV writers and actors, many of us are struggling to make
00:09:42.600 ends meet. And the current streaming model is a big part of the problem. There are so many shows,
00:09:49.640 there are so many platforms, and the audiences have noticed the change too. All the shows are
00:09:55.320 getting shorter. You know, we used to have a show with 22 episodes. Now you might get one with eight
00:10:00.460 or six. You're also noticing that more time is transpiring between seasons. So, you know,
00:10:08.560 the kids on Euphoria, they've got to be grown by the time the show comes back, right? They were in
00:10:14.880 high school and, you know, now he got a five o'clock shadow. That is a man. So all of those
00:10:20.460 things are contributing to how much the creators and actors in these programs are getting paid.
00:10:25.880 And then because of streaming, we often are not aware that we don't know how many views the shows are getting. So in addition to the residuals from the streamers being laughably low by comparison to network, we don't actually know how much we're being screwed.
00:10:48.160 They're like, here, just take this. And so the strike is essentially asking the networks to
00:10:55.000 have transparency with us. We want to make sure that the money that we are making off of our work
00:11:01.760 is reflective of how the work is doing. Because if it takes a year and a half before I get staffed
00:11:09.040 on a show again, I should be making a portion of the profits that the show that I worked on
00:11:14.640 is going to collect for the network and the CEOs. And the reality is, I don't believe any CEO
00:11:21.960 deserves a $24 million salary when the writers and actors on the show are struggling to get
00:11:31.020 qualified for their health insurance. That's just the reality. And so yes, it is frustrating that
00:11:38.240 people have this misconception about our industry, but that's the reason that you and I are having
00:11:43.400 this conversation. And so many writers and performers are getting candid about the realities
00:11:49.200 of our situation. There's a level of expectation that they have that is just not realistic. And
00:11:55.040 they are adding to a set of challenges that this business is already facing that is quite frankly
00:12:01.120 very disruptive. So they're not being realistic? No, they're not. That's Bob Iger, the CEO of
00:12:06.280 Disney. And he's talking about writers. You know, the actual people who do the work to make the
00:12:11.500 things that he sells that make him rich. And frankly, I gotta say, it sounds like a pretty
00:12:16.800 sweet grift to me. Bob Iger, who CNN reports is one of the highest paid CEOs in all of entertainment,
00:12:23.700 can tell the people whose work makes him millions of dollars a year that they're the ones who are
00:12:28.840 being unrealistic when they ask for better treatment and better pay. This is kind of a
00:12:34.040 spicy take, and I'm curious for your thoughts. It's gotta be some kind of a scam, right? Because
00:12:40.680 I was watching that interview, I think it was Ted Sardonos, the CEO from Netflix, and he was like,
00:12:45.860 the writers are just not being realistic. Oh, it was Bob Iger. Bob Iger. And I was like,
00:12:52.880 yeah, I'm sure that the dynamic where like, you make $50 million a year from the labor and the
00:13:00.020 creativity and the talent of other people, like maybe that, is it possible that maybe that's not
00:13:05.460 That's not realistic, sir. You never hung a light. You never wrote a script. You never did
00:13:10.660 a rewrite. You ain't learned no lines. Like, this is not a spicy take. Like, what do you do,
00:13:16.100 sir? Like quickly tell me what you do. Yeah, it is. It's, it is just so that, that, that interview,
00:13:25.040 I made a video about that because it was so like laughable and just showed how out of touch he was
00:13:32.700 to say those things. And I think that is a big crux of this issue. And you're seeing this
00:13:38.200 with labor across the country, whether you work at UPS or whether you're a teacher or whether you're
00:13:45.120 in healthcare, where oftentimes the people at the top don't understand the realities of
00:13:50.220 the work, blood, sweat, and tears that their workers are putting into the business that
00:13:55.960 sustains them. Whether you are working on the assembly line at Amazon, or if you are staying
00:14:01.460 end up late doing rewrites on a script because they shoot tomorrow, you know? And so it's easy
00:14:08.100 for the people at the top to say, oh, it's not realistic. It's not realistic to wait nine months
00:14:14.000 between me getting paid for a job that I did successfully. And when we asked the studios,
00:14:19.480 hey, you guys are historically late on payments. The studio's response was, well, we think paying
00:14:25.100 on time would you know it wouldn't incentivize the writers sir i gotta pay my bills one of the
00:14:32.520 things i saw that i like i like screenshotted it because i couldn't believe it was true where it
00:14:36.380 was like the studios acknowledge that they do not pay on time and they also say that having
00:14:41.640 penalties to to involved will also not make them pay on time so you're you're you're not gonna pay
00:14:47.820 i'm just not gonna pay it's just not it's just not going to happen and and again to your point
00:14:53.300 about your friend, I think people see the big numbers and they're like, oh my gosh,
00:14:57.940 this person got paid $100,000 for a script. Amazing. If the deal doesn't close for a year
00:15:03.680 or two years, that's two years that you are waiting to get paid that money. And in that time,
00:15:09.020 you still are having to pay your bills. Okay. Great. You made this money on a script. You don't
00:15:14.240 get paid it all at front. It gets paid to you in thirds. You get a third when you start the job,
00:15:19.460 you get a third when you turn that first draft in, and you get a third when you turn that last
00:15:23.160 draft in. One of the things that we are asking for is hard timelines on that. Because what happens
00:15:30.800 is you turn that script in and they go, we don't really like it. You got to do another draft. And
00:15:35.880 you're like, okay, do I get paid? No, no, no. You got to do another draft. We'll tell you when
00:15:41.200 we're happy with the draft. It can take you months to another year to write that draft.
00:15:46.960 And you are just hoping that on the other end, they're going to decide that it's good enough
00:15:51.120 for you to get paid. And then you still have to pay your agent, your manager, your lawyer,
00:15:57.080 your business manager, and you got to set aside money for taxes. And you still have to pay all
00:16:02.680 your other bills. And then if the movie or show goes on to make billions for the studio,
00:16:07.780 you get nothing? I mean, the math is literally not nothing for me.
00:16:14.680 I still think there's a grift happening because the fact that the streaming model does not have
00:16:20.040 transparency into the numbers. I think any kind of situation where there is not transparency around
00:16:26.780 numbers, someone is cheating somebody, somebody is being scammed. What's going on there?
00:16:31.400 Oh, yes. I agree. I think it's one of two things or maybe a little bit of both.
00:16:37.980 I think that the streamers have realized that they shot themselves in the foot by
00:16:43.420 the arms race for everybody to have a platform. There are too many places to watch content.
00:16:50.040 And the reality is the numbers, I think, on their end are not what they're saying that they are.
00:16:56.660 And so, you know, every week Netflix is like, this show has blown numbers out of the water.
00:17:03.000 Every week there's a new record being set.
00:17:06.400 But like, what is the record?
00:17:08.140 Like, what's the record that's actually being set?
00:17:10.020 We don't know.
00:17:10.940 On the other end, I think that they don't potentially want to tell us the numbers because
00:17:15.760 if they did tell us the numbers, we would know how much we were being screwed.
00:17:19.440 So again, I think it's a little bit of both. And that if the shareholders, for example, knew how low the signups were, knew how low the numbers were on some of these shows, it would really potentially negatively affect these streamers. I guess their reasoning is because they are operating as tech companies in addition to studios, the numbers are proprietary information.
00:17:45.300 That's such a grift.
00:17:47.840 They're like, we can't tell you how it works because then you might start a streamer.
00:17:52.480 I don't want to start a streamer.
00:17:54.020 I just want to get paid.
00:17:56.520 Yeah, that like, I mean, this is something that I find frustrating, but also confusing
00:18:01.240 is that it was the networks who chose to sort of pivot to the streaming model.
00:18:05.740 And now that is the same model that they're blaming to be like, well, we can't pay people.
00:18:10.180 We can't give you transparency because of this model that we all pivoted to.
00:18:14.460 Like, it's a very frustrating dynamic.
00:18:16.040 Right. But Bob Iger can still make $24.2 million a year. Why is it that the people at the top can continue to profit? And again, this is not just unique to the film and television industry. We are seeing labor being taken advantage of across all industries.
00:18:37.680 And the thing that I keep telling people is if you are seeing the writer strike and the actor strike and thinking, I don't make as much money. I should be making more money. I agree. You should be making more money too. Your labor should be respected. You should be able to purchase a home after you've worked somewhere for X amount of years. You should be able to afford rent in the city that you live in off of the salary that you make.
00:19:05.860 I don't care if you work in a fast food restaurant or if you are a secretary or if you wash cars.
00:19:12.020 You should be able to make a living off of your work because somebody else is making a living 0.57
00:19:16.860 off of your work. This crabs in a barrel mentality is helping none of us. My paycheck is not taking
00:19:23.160 money out of teacher's pockets. It's not. And absolutely, teachers should be paid better.
00:19:29.160 So my hope, and I am taking solace in seeing the solidarity that's happening across industries
00:19:34.600 and from people outside of the entertainment community that it's creating a level of class
00:19:41.480 consciousness we haven't seen before where people are saying we deserve and demand more
00:19:48.640 and I believe we should get it. And when it comes to the writers and actors, I believe we will.
00:19:54.460 I think that that tide is kind of shifting a little bit because in the beginning of the strike,
00:19:58.800 the sort of thing I heard so often was like, well, teachers don't make that much.
00:20:02.760 And it's something we talk about a lot on the show is like teaching the same forces are actively deprofessionalizing and devaluing teaching as a career and turning it into like a gig commodity.
00:20:15.420 So if you're angry about the teachers, you should be angry about the writers as well because it's the same dynamic that is turning the work into a commodity.
00:20:22.720 One thousand percent.
00:20:24.000 And I would also go a step further to say when the teachers go on strike, y'all do the same thing to them.
00:20:29.720 You get the summers off and you get to end work at two o'clock. And you're just looking at
00:20:36.720 coloring books. They do the exact same thing. Well, you chose to be a teacher. You could get
00:20:41.460 another job. Again, it's this false equivalency. And you see it when we're talking about raising
00:20:49.820 the minimum wage so that people that work in the food industry, for example, can keep a roof over
00:20:55.600 their head. Well, working at McDonald's was never supposed to support a family. That's supposed to
00:21:00.920 be a job for teenagers. Okay. Who is supposed to be working at McDonald's when the teenagers are 0.91
00:21:05.840 at school? Right. Is the business just supposed to close between school hours? Somebody has to
00:21:12.560 do the job. It's like that chicken or the egg thing where it's like, well, go to college and
00:21:17.820 then you'll be able to get a good job. But then you go to college and get student loans and then
00:21:22.820 they're like, well, nobody told you to go to college. You get student loans. You should go
00:21:26.540 get, you know, you should go get an industry job. It's like, you're damned if you do, damned if you 0.97
00:21:32.680 don't. And it ultimately comes down to a number of people wanting to look down on somebody else as if
00:21:40.840 it secures their future. And the reality is it doesn't. We all are struggling in the same
00:21:48.820 capitalistic society, and we all deserve better. Let's take a quick break.
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00:22:16.280 run a business and not thinking about podcasting think again more americans listen to podcasts
00:22:22.360 than ad-supported streaming music from spotify and pandora and as the number one podcaster
00:22:27.060 iheart's twice as large as the next two combined so whatever your customers listen to they'll hear
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00:22:36.900 think podcasting can help your business think iheart streaming radio and podcasting let us show
00:22:43.000 you at iHeartAdvertising.com. That's iHeartAdvertising.com. When I was 14 years old,
00:22:49.740 I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived and I've spent my life exploring how
00:22:56.260 other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the
00:23:02.080 Survivor Files. I just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say 0.96
00:23:10.280 anything. Every week I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up
00:23:17.740 without a doubt he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my
00:23:24.640 bed and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:23:32.000 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make
00:23:37.720 it out alive listen to the survivor files with elizabeth smart on the iheart radio app apple
00:23:44.120 podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and we're back it feels like we're at this crossroads
00:23:57.560 with so many different industries where the question is should the powers that be be able to
00:24:04.720 squeeze and commodify every drop, every ounce of the work that we do, the talent that we have,
00:24:11.240 the joy that we have in life to make somebody else more money. And it feels like that seems to
00:24:17.280 be the like big existential question that we're grappling with right now. Do you, do you feel
00:24:22.420 that sense? Absolutely. I mean, look, Twitter is a dumpster fire and I cannot give it up. I will
00:24:30.140 be there like the last people in the Titanic watching it go down. But what I love about
00:24:37.280 Twitter is being able to hear from people across so many different communities that I would never
00:24:43.440 normally get to interact with. And there really does seem to be a sentiment growing amongst people
00:24:49.260 that are like, wait a second, the actors and writers can't earn a living. The teachers can't
00:24:54.120 earn a living. The nurses can't earn a living. The people working in the restaurant are earning a 1.00
00:24:59.420 living. Who is earning a living? People are like, I can't afford to put gas in my car.
00:25:06.440 It's really expensive to buy groceries. I don't have no healthcare. What is going on? And again,
00:25:13.780 to your question, a lot of people are connecting the dots. This is a universal struggle across
00:25:23.220 all industries. And a lot of times we are looking at each other and counting each other's coins
00:25:30.180 when the reality is many of us are not able to make a living wage. And that's what we're asking
00:25:37.960 for. I don't need to be a millionaire. I don't need multiple homes. I just need to be able to
00:25:44.820 keep the lights on where I live, maybe go on vacation once a year. And I think that those
00:25:51.900 are rights that should be afforded, again, to everyone. And it really does seem like many people
00:25:57.840 are a weakening to the fact that, by your own words, it's a scam. We are being scammed.
00:26:05.180 And when you look at the kind of things that the WGA is asking for, it's so reasonable.
00:26:10.520 Oh my gosh.
00:26:11.020 Clearly nobody is asking for like, I want a private jet every year and a million dollars.
00:26:15.120 It's like, no, it's just the ability to, to like live, to just like, it shouldn't, it shouldn't be a precarious, such a precarious situation just to live.
00:26:27.220 You, you, you, you're wanting to work and be able to like exist from that work.
00:26:31.600 Like that shouldn't be asking that much.
00:26:34.060 No, no, it really, really shouldn't.
00:26:36.760 And again, I really encourage anyone who is confused about what we're asking for with the WGA or with SAG, all of our proposals are outlined very clearly on the website, sagafterstrike.org, wgacontract2023.org.
00:26:56.480 And you can see what we asked for, and you can see how the studio's countered.
00:27:01.920 And I really appreciate both of my unions because they have been so clear and transparent
00:27:08.240 with the asks.
00:27:09.600 They're written in plain English.
00:27:11.420 Sometimes they might be a little confusing, like if you're not really up to date on some
00:27:16.100 of the things we're asking for.
00:27:17.360 But for the most part, it's pretty clear.
00:27:20.320 And I would hope that any normal person could read them and say, yeah, that makes sense
00:27:25.800 to me.
00:27:26.480 One of the things for SAG, for example, is oftentimes when you book an acting job, you
00:27:32.280 have to move to a different state, or you might have to go to another country, might
00:27:36.220 have to go to Canada, might have to go to the UK to film something.
00:27:39.920 And what happens is once you move to that place, the studios consider you to be a resident
00:27:46.360 of the new place that you are living.
00:27:48.400 So they do not have to pay for accommodations.
00:27:51.660 they don't have to pay for you to drive around for example that's all supposed to come out of
00:27:57.860 your own check in the in the meantime you still might have to be paying rent in your home where
00:28:03.960 you actually normally live you might still be paying for your car payment for a car you are
00:28:08.700 not driving and we said hey if i have to move to canada for six months to film your little tv show
00:28:15.680 can you pay me a little extra money and the studio was like no i don't i don't think we
00:28:20.240 can do that? The answer is no. What? What are you talking about? That's basic. Again, I've been in
00:28:33.580 that situation. I've had to pick up and move for a job. And it's very exciting, but it's also
00:28:38.240 stressful. And this is not an uncommon experience. And again, we're not asking for a lot. It's all
00:28:48.660 very reasonable it's all very reasonable and then when you add in like the salaries these ceos make
00:28:56.060 and you're like oh well could bob could like ted sardonos just like buy one less car like i feel
00:29:03.060 like i feel like that might cut it like just can you hold off on buying a third boat just you only
00:29:09.620 got two boats do you need another boat probably not can you airbnb in the hamptons do you need
00:29:18.640 to go to the Maldives. How about, how about you stay in the U.S. this summer? Just, just this
00:29:25.520 summer. I know one of the big things that WGA is striking for are stipulations around how AI will
00:29:33.080 be used in writer's rooms. WGA wants AI to be used only as a tool that can help with research
00:29:39.140 or facilitate script ideas, but not as a tool to like replace a human writer. So this is like a
00:29:46.160 bit of a pet peeve of mine. And I'm curious what you think. I don't think that we're in a place
00:29:53.980 where AI fully replacing human creatives and writers is a real possibility. I think that
00:30:00.980 studios would perhaps love it if that were the way that it was. But I think that that's like
00:30:05.640 a fantasy that is not here. And so I think this idea that it would even be possible to phase in
00:30:13.280 AI in this way to replace human writers, you're still going to need human creatives. That's just
00:30:18.220 how stuff gets made. And I wonder, what do you think about the threat of AI impacting the way
00:30:27.120 that things get made? How do you see that threat? Yeah. So our contract comes up for negotiation
00:30:33.580 every three years. And so what we're asking for in terms of AI regulation, to your point,
00:30:40.080 we might not have the ability for AI to write a script today, but in two years, it might.
00:30:47.720 In three years, it might. And so, you know, again, AI is a tool the same way a car is a tool or
00:30:55.920 final draft is a tool, right? The car is not what is getting you to the destination. You still have
00:31:02.140 to drive the car. Like someone needs to still be there to operate the machinery. And by the same
00:31:08.140 token with artificial intelligence, we are asking that AI is not learning how to write scripts
00:31:15.200 based off of our work. So the way that AI works is that it learns based on whatever is inputted
00:31:21.600 into it. And there is a world in which the studio could have a studio-specific AI built for sole
00:31:29.820 purpose of writing scripts. And the way that it would learn how to do that is you would feed it
00:31:34.160 scripts. And the AI could say, all right, the cold open is 10 pages and act one is 30 pages.
00:31:41.560 And then act two ends on page 45. And then the whole script ends on 110. And you want this to
00:31:48.280 be about a mother and a daughter who go to California and on the way they learn blah, blah,
00:31:53.000 blah, blah, blah. And the AI could spit out like a bad first draft. It's not going to be good.
00:31:59.440 it's going to have the skeleton of a story and it's going to probably need somebody to go in
00:32:05.900 and tweak it to your point. It's not going to be, you know, an award-winning film, but because our
00:32:13.140 contract says that you get paid for a first draft and a second draft and a third draft, there is a
00:32:18.700 world in which the studio could say, well, AI wrote the first draft. So you don't get paid for the
00:32:23.420 first draft. You get paid for what's called a punch pass, which is essentially just going in
00:32:28.980 and making small little tweaks. And so what the WGA is asking for is to have some guidelines in
00:32:35.600 place. But if we were to use AI for research, I need to know the name of every small town in
00:32:42.760 California because I'm writing a script that takes place in a small town in California and I want to
00:32:46.660 make sure that I'm using the right information. AI is going to spit it out and I'm going to go,
00:32:51.280 okay, cool. That's okay. We're not going to be okay with it learning how to write scripts. And
00:32:58.580 again, AI is culling the internet. It's not coming up with this on its own. It's essentially
00:33:05.340 plagiarizing. And so that's what we're asking it not to do with our work. And the reality is
00:33:13.620 when you are negotiating a contract, one side says, here's what I want. And the other side
00:33:19.340 says, here's what I want. And you go back and forth and eventually you meet in the middle.
00:33:23.740 The AMPTP refused to counter on certain things.
00:33:27.780 They just said no outright.
00:33:31.200 So whether it's AI or whether it's residuals or whether it's relocation fees, there are
00:33:37.860 always going to be terms that are going to be adjusted because that's the nature of contract
00:33:43.720 negotiation.
00:33:44.940 You offer up some things that you think we're never going to get this, but we're going to
00:33:48.520 use it as leverage for other things because this thing is really important to us.
00:33:52.140 and both sides have to make concessions. That's just what happens. And again, I really believe
00:34:02.160 that the AI stuff is important, but my hope and our belief in the negotiations process
00:34:08.880 is that we'll come to an agreement that is suitable for both parties. And as is,
00:34:15.000 no regulations on AI is not okay for writers and it's definitely not okay for actors.
00:34:20.340 And yes, and we are in a time right now where more and more writers, Sarah Silverman just recently joined this group, are suing like ChatGPT and OpenAI for copyright infringement for just like taking their intellectual property and being like, oh, it's mine now.
00:34:41.500 So the idea that you don't need any guardrails concurrently happening while people are literally in court talking about, actually, AI stole my copyrighted material, it just doesn't work.
00:34:53.740 It's like, obviously, there need to be some guardrails.
00:34:56.400 That's why these people are in court right now.
00:34:59.380 It's just obvious.
00:35:00.480 Yeah. And the fact that they didn't want to counter in any meaningful way, to me, that says that they have plans to use this technology. For example, the 2007 strike was largely around the usage of our work with the internet.
00:35:18.980 You know, YouTube was pretty new and the WGA was like, oh, we see this internet thing happening.
00:35:25.820 Are you going to put our work on the internet?
00:35:27.200 And if you do, are we going to get any money for this?
00:35:29.680 This is really important to us.
00:35:31.200 And the studios were like, no, you don't have to worry about that at all.
00:35:35.000 Internet, this is nothing.
00:35:37.040 Girl, then look what happened.
00:35:40.000 So like, what?
00:35:42.040 So now here we are in 2023 and we said, hey, this AI thing is a little scary.
00:35:48.100 can we have some regulations? And the studio said, what? AI? You ain't got nothing to worry
00:35:54.440 about. They're lying. They are lying. I do not believe you. More after a quick break.
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00:36:55.940 When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.
00:37:01.760 I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.
00:37:08.260 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.
00:37:11.680 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything.
00:37:20.280 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable.
00:37:24.540 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.
00:37:29.100 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.
00:37:36.540 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:37:40.360 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.
00:37:44.020 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:37:47.620 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:38:00.800 Let's get right back into it.
00:38:03.100 Earlier this year, actor Kimiko Glenn shared the residuals that she made from the hit Netflix show Orange is the New Black that explored life in a women's prison.
00:38:12.240 The amounts were just a few cents per episode, adding up to a whopping $27.
00:38:18.280 She wasn't alone. Her fellow castmates shared just how little they made from the show.
00:38:23.600 Beth Dover, who played one of the prison's owners, said that in the end, she really didn't make anything because she didn't live where the show was filmed.
00:38:31.580 So she had to spend what little money she did make paying to fly herself out to shoot.
00:38:36.880 So back in the day, Netflix was just a DVD rental company.
00:38:40.880 They'd send you loose DVDs slipped into these red and white sleeves in the mail,
00:38:45.380 and maybe you'd never get around to watching the movie,
00:38:47.920 but also you'd forget to send it back,
00:38:49.440 so you'd just be paying to keep a copy of Scott Pilgrim vs. The World on loan.
00:38:53.840 But when Netflix announced they were going to start making their own content
00:38:57.020 and introduced streaming, they were on to something big.
00:39:00.700 And Orange is the New Black was the show that helped them do it
00:39:03.100 and helped them compete with cable giants.
00:39:06.300 Orange is the New Black was a runaway smash success.
00:39:09.860 You just kind of had to be there to understand
00:39:12.120 how big of a cultural phenomenon it was.
00:39:15.140 Hackers stole the first few episodes of season five
00:39:17.800 and made ransom demands of Netflix.
00:39:20.640 I remember waiting up until midnight for the new season to drop,
00:39:24.220 realizing that it actually dropped at midnight Pacific time,
00:39:27.600 so waiting up for three more hours just to try to watch it.
00:39:31.540 It was nominated for all the awards
00:39:33.200 and introduced a new way to watch television,
00:39:35.920 the binge model.
00:39:37.480 But the show was also a harbinger
00:39:39.660 for how broken the streaming model is
00:39:41.640 and how the CEOs at the top make tons of money
00:39:44.820 while the folks who actually make the show, not so much.
00:39:48.660 The actors on Orange is the New Black
00:39:50.420 became overnight celebrities,
00:39:52.180 but they weren't even making enough money from the show
00:39:54.380 to afford to be able to just get to set.
00:39:56.820 Part of the issue is SAG's 2012 New Media Agreement,
00:40:00.260 which covers shows and movies, quote,
00:40:02.560 produced for initial exhibition via the internet, mobile devices,
00:40:05.780 or any other platform known or which hereafter may be adopted.
00:40:10.320 So basically, streaming platforms.
00:40:12.440 But back when that agreement was negotiated,
00:40:14.720 shows developed for the internet on streamers like Netflix
00:40:17.860 were not a thing like they are today.
00:40:20.340 So the actors just didn't, and don't,
00:40:22.700 have an agreement that reflects where we are today with regard to streaming.
00:40:26.240 Add to that fact that streamers are notoriously cagey about transparency around numbers.
00:40:32.000 In a piece called Orange is the New Black Signaled the Rot Inside the Streaming Economy,
00:40:36.640 for The New Yorker, by Michael Shulman,
00:40:38.780 the Orange is the New Black cast recalls Ted Sardonos, now Netflix's CEO,
00:40:43.540 was giving a toast at a SAG Awards dinner.
00:40:45.740 A dinner, by the way, that the entire cast would have been expected to attend,
00:40:49.780 but have to pay for their own travel and own clothing.
00:40:53.180 So during the toast, Ted Sardonos raises his glass
00:40:56.400 and brags about how Orange is the New Black
00:40:58.940 is beating Game of Thrones in viewers.
00:41:02.480 And that was the first little glimpse of transparency
00:41:05.180 around just how many viewers were watching Orange is the New Black.
00:41:09.760 Shulman writes,
00:41:10.760 one actor called it a whoops moment,
00:41:13.340 but the cast found the line less uplifting than galling.
00:41:16.580 If the show was really more popular than Game of Thrones,
00:41:19.340 whose top cast members have been said to make
00:41:21.200 more than a million per episode by the end?
00:41:23.660 Why were the salaries for Orange so paltry?
00:41:26.960 And just a quick heads up,
00:41:28.260 there will be an Orange is the New Black spoiler
00:41:30.480 in this section.
00:41:32.100 It's so clearly a lie, so clearly a scam.
00:41:35.220 And when streaming became the thing,
00:41:38.400 there was a time where creatives thought,
00:41:41.940 like, this is going to be great for me.
00:41:43.820 And then they realized, like, oh, wait,
00:41:46.320 this is just going to be another way
00:41:47.700 to chip away at what I make because I remember reading about the show Orange is the New Black
00:41:55.160 and how like that show was like if you weren't watching Orange is the New Black back on when it 0.95
00:42:00.020 first premiered on Netflix like it was like the fucking show everybody watched it when Hussein 0.85
00:42:06.060 died it was like like everybody it was like spoiler oh well I mean I'm kidding I'm kidding 0.94
00:42:12.220 i'm kidding if you didn't know if you didn't know that she died where have you been right but like
00:42:19.720 reading about how the the people in that show had to have jobs at bar second third fourth jobs how
00:42:27.520 little they made one of the actors showed their residual check and it was like too small for
00:42:33.540 their yeah it was like i think that it i almost wonder if like we got caught up in a positive
00:42:41.520 hype cycle about a new model and a new show without peeking behind the curtains and just
00:42:46.660 asking the questions of like, how are the people who are making this thing that we love that is
00:42:50.600 bringing us so much joy, how are they being compensated? What are their lives like?
00:42:55.220 Yeah. I mean, I think that that is just emblematic of the industry as a whole and not just
00:43:01.640 entertainment. I mean, we go to the store and we buy clothes and we don't think about how much the
00:43:08.860 person who made the clothes is getting paid. Whether it's fast fashion and we're learning
00:43:14.140 about the extreme abuses and unfair working conditions and people are like, but I love
00:43:19.880 Forever 21. It's like, okay, the people doing the job are not being treated fairly.
00:43:26.380 And when it comes to Hollywood, again, people assume, people often conflate visibility with
00:43:32.540 wealth. I see you everywhere. It must mean you are wealthy, but that's just not the case.
00:43:38.060 To your earlier question about how excited we were about streaming, I think that at face
00:43:45.320 value streaming and being able to have content reach people in many different ways is absolutely
00:43:52.800 exciting.
00:43:53.940 You could watch, I remember getting my first iPhone and being able to watch movies on the
00:44:00.160 train and just thinking like, this is so cool.
00:44:03.800 I can watch a show on my 30 minute commute to work. And I hadn't been able to do that before.
00:44:12.360 But there were more places for people to get work. It wasn't just the big networks. Now you could
00:44:19.980 be in a web series. You could be on a show on Netflix and more people were getting to see it.
00:44:29.060 So I think it makes sense that people were excited about that. And a show like Orange is the New
00:44:33.160 Black specifically was employing such a diverse cast, from Laverne Cox to Danielle Brooks and
00:44:43.040 all of these Black women and all these women of color and women of different ages, women that you
00:44:49.520 didn't necessarily get to see on TV. So I think we were all excited about that. But when it comes
00:44:57.000 to the residual model and the low pay rates, I often remind people that if someone wants to take
00:45:04.460 advantage of someone, they're going to find a way to do it. And I don't think that way. So I go from
00:45:12.460 a place of like, oh yeah, we're all starting on the same page. We're all going to treat each other
00:45:15.600 fairly. But that's because I don't seek to take advantage of people. And essentially what happened
00:45:21.140 is there were certain things that our contract did not account for because we could not have
00:45:26.620 anticipated where we're at with streaming. And like I said, our contract comes up for negotiation
00:45:32.120 every three years. These are things that we wanted to address in 2020, but because of the pandemic,
00:45:37.120 everything was already shut down. We had no leverage. We couldn't threaten to strike.
00:45:42.760 We were effectively already on strike. Everybody was at home. So these are concerns that we've
00:45:47.980 had for quite some time. And again, when you negotiate, you lose certain things.
00:45:53.960 So I remember in 2017, we fired our agents over packaging, which is the idea that when you sell a show, your agent could essentially give the studio a deal and say, we're giving you this show and we're also going to give you a bunch of writers from our agency at a discounted rate.
00:46:15.320 And the WGA said, that's not fair.
00:46:18.200 So you're making money off of my show and you're making some money off of all these writers.
00:46:23.960 This is not okay. We couldn't come to a resolution. We all had to fire our agents.
00:46:29.200 We fired our agents for like nine months. They came back. We figured it out. So the WGA and SAG
00:46:37.760 similarly have to prioritize. They're like, well, we got this thing that we don't like. We got this
00:46:43.140 thing we don't like. What's the one that we're going to get the most headway on? What's the one
00:46:49.260 we're probably going to have to say, let's do this one next year. We've been asking for
00:46:54.060 script fees for staff writers for years. Meaning if you are the, if you're a first time writer on
00:46:59.960 a show and you get to write an episode of the show, you do not get paid for it. You don't get
00:47:05.680 paid. Anybody else that gets a script assignment gets paid. Wait, we have been asking for this.
00:47:12.700 Just don't get paid? Well, you don't get paid a fee. So you get paid, you get paid a weekly fee
00:47:17.740 as a writer. And then there's what's called a script fee. And so again, not everybody gets
00:47:23.420 assigned a script. Sometimes you don't have, there's too many, or there's not enough episodes
00:47:28.060 and there's too many writers or the showrunners like, I want to write the finale or, you know,
00:47:34.300 two people pair up and they write an episode or whatever. So we've been asking for the staff
00:47:39.520 writer, which is the very first staff position to get that script fee. We've been asking for this
00:47:45.460 for years. We've never been able to get it. This is the first year that the studios were like,
00:47:51.000 we'll give it to you. We're like, yeah, but you won't give us anything else. Yeah,
00:47:54.440 but we'll give you this one thing you've asked for for 20 years. So again, who knows if we'll
00:48:01.000 get to keep it? Because today, actually, the AMPTP is officially resuming talks with WGA.
00:48:09.640 Who knows how that will turn out or how long that will take. But again, the point of negotiations
00:48:14.720 is you say, we really want this thing, so we're willing to give up this thing.
00:48:19.620 Will we keep the script fee for staff writers? I hope so. That money could be life-changing for
00:48:26.300 some people. But it's all a matter of what else is on the table and what's most important. And
00:48:32.860 I really think the residuals and AI are our biggest core issues for both unions. 0.94
00:48:38.780 Obviously, the demands that you all have, they seem race neutral. But I can only imagine 0.99
00:48:44.700 that they will deeply impact who gets in rooms, who gets platforms, who gets legs up.
00:48:52.360 And like, you know, how do you see these demands impacting the playing field in the
00:48:58.220 entertainment industry more broadly?
00:49:00.020 Like if you don't have a famous name to fall back on, or you're not connected to somebody
00:49:04.680 famous, or you're a marginalized person, a person of color, like how do you see these
00:49:09.120 demands connecting to the kind of industry or space that you hope to see?
00:49:13.040 Yeah. I mean, you hit the nail on the head by talking about nepotism, right? Nepotism is not exclusive to this industry, but the reality is if you have familial connections, if you have money to lean back on, you can wait nine months to get paid for a job.
00:49:32.240 you can take an extremely low rate. You can break into the industry because your mom has an agent
00:49:40.700 and you can say, mom, I want to work in TV. Can you get me an agent? You already live in Los
00:49:46.960 Angeles. You already have a home, a roof over your head. So the things that we're asking for
00:49:53.680 are going to make the industry more equitable for everyone. But to your question, it will be
00:49:59.760 especially helpful for folks from marginalized identities who are already facing so many
00:50:05.540 hurdles in order to get into the industry. If you don't live in New York or LA, for example,
00:50:12.360 there are some things in the SAG contract where we're asking for opportunities for actors that
00:50:20.140 don't live here. If you are an actor in Atlanta and you are super talented, you should be able
00:50:26.000 to audition for a show. And if you book the job, you should not be barred from the job because you
00:50:31.100 can't afford to come to LA on short notice and get an apartment and get that plane ticket and do the
00:50:37.900 show. If you're the best person with the job, you living in Atlanta should not keep you from getting
00:50:44.080 the job, right? So another thing that SAG has been asking for is hair and makeup equity. And those
00:50:53.520 are things that pertain to people of color, making sure that when I come to set, they have
00:51:00.240 the foundation that's going to match my skin tone, that they have somebody who's going to be able to 0.99
00:51:04.140 cut my hair, that they have somebody who's going to be able to lay those baby hairs.
00:51:08.680 That is not the norm. And it's not saying that we need to make sure we know we can dictate who's
00:51:17.120 the makeup artist, who's the hairstylist. We're just saying we want to be part of the conversation.
00:51:21.780 That's going to ensure that marginalized folks who are on set, if you're a plus-size person,
00:51:28.040 we got to make sure we have the clothes that are going to fit you and are going to make you
00:51:31.740 look good and feel comfortable on set. So while the demands, so to speak, are neutral and that
00:51:40.760 they are not specific to race and gender and sexuality, oftentimes the people who need those
00:51:48.120 specific accommodations who need that access because they don't already have it are folks
00:51:53.300 from marginalized identities. You don't want a situation where it's like, oh, for Black women, 1.00
00:51:59.400 they just pay for their own hair out of pocket if they want their hair to not look a mess, right? 1.00
00:52:04.120 That's like, yeah. Yes. Yeah. No, I mean, I know when I've been on shows, I have taken care of my
00:52:13.080 own hair, either waking up super early and getting a haircut or getting a haircut the day before or
00:52:19.680 when I had locks, doing my own hair, going to the hair salon because I had had enough situations
00:52:25.740 where the people on set did not know how to take care of me. And it's a harsh reality. I even
00:52:32.980 learned how to do my own makeup for that reason. I hired a makeup artist to teach me how to do my
00:52:38.440 own makeup so that I could have the right foundation because it's different makeup on
00:52:43.660 camera than it is for a weekend out on the town. So I spent my own money to do that because I'd
00:52:51.960 had enough times where I had come to set and they said, oh, your skin is beautiful. You don't need
00:52:57.040 anything. Oh my God. I've been told the same thing. Listen, I know what I'm working with,
00:53:01.780 But when you're on camera with those HD 4K camera, you don't want to see my pores.
00:53:08.600 You don't want to see my shiny forehead.
00:53:10.420 I need foundation.
00:53:11.840 I need powder.
00:53:13.500 You don't go on TV bare face. 0.99
00:53:16.320 You look like a mole rat. 1.00
00:53:17.780 I don't care what your skin looks like. 1.00
00:53:19.340 You need something under all those lights.
00:53:21.720 But the fact that you've heard it tells me that this is, again, a systemic problem.
00:53:27.840 How are you a makeup artist and you don't have foundation to match every shade of the rainbow?
00:53:35.800 You should be able to do everybody's makeup.
00:53:38.220 Again, this is not an extraordinary ask.
00:53:42.620 This is basic.
00:53:43.760 How about you come to work prepared to do your job?
00:53:47.540 That sounds like something that you should be able to do.
00:53:52.720 Yeah, your job.
00:53:54.280 Your job. 1.00
00:53:55.400 You are the makeup artist, mama.
00:53:56.780 you should be able to do this. I can't tell you how. And again, I know how to do my makeup now
00:54:04.680 because I invested in learning how to do it, but I've never worn a lot of makeup. I've always been
00:54:09.600 a less is more girly. And I've had too many times where the makeup artist is like, what color do you
00:54:14.580 like? What? I don't know. You tell me what color I'm supposed to be wearing. Why am I going on TV
00:54:20.960 looking casket ready. This is not, this is not acceptable. Not casket ready. I mean, you know,
00:54:29.820 who did the body? She looks so good. It looks like she's sleeping. I'm alive. I don't, this is not okay.
00:54:42.800 Let's take a quick break.
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00:55:33.340 That's 844-844-IHEART.
00:55:35.560 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality,
00:55:40.200 welcome home.
00:55:42.000 This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club,
00:55:46.400 part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives,
00:55:49.280 and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.
00:55:54.200 I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books,
00:55:57.880 the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.
00:56:01.300 I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed, so obsessed.
00:56:04.880 From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments,
00:56:09.740 nothing is off the table.
00:56:11.220 It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters,
00:56:16.800 then that is a Trojan horse.
00:56:18.280 Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place.
00:56:27.900 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:56:33.940 See you between the pages.
00:56:40.680 And we're back.
00:56:43.120 I've seen a lot of inaccurate information about the strike.
00:56:47.300 Some fans who are supportive of the strike suggested that supporters should cancel their streaming accounts
00:56:52.580 to stand in solidarity with striking workers, even though that is not something that either union is asked for.
00:56:59.200 More importantly is the question of who can and can't work right now.
00:57:03.020 This has been particularly tricky for influencers.
00:57:06.360 With writers and actors on strike, would studios approach influencers to make movie and TV content instead?
00:57:12.820 Francesca has kind of become a one-woman truth-teller,
00:57:16.200 combating misinformation about the strikes on social media.
00:57:19.080 So you had this very interesting response to a content creator who was,
00:57:24.300 and voice actor, who basically was saying that, like,
00:57:27.300 making projects, if you are, like, an influencer or a content creator,
00:57:30.720 or for whatever reason, don't consider yourself, like, an actor
00:57:33.740 and you're not in the union now,
00:57:36.300 they were like, oh, well, here's why it's, like, actually fine and not scabbing.
00:57:39.500 I've seen so much incorrect information floating around the internet like some people saying like
00:57:45.160 oh if you like you shouldn't cosplay like I've just seen so much information that is not correct
00:57:52.680 and I guess my first question is can you set the record straight but then my second question is
00:57:58.480 on top of everything else that you personally are dealing with right now with this strike
00:58:03.100 how does it like how did you become the person who was like and on top of everything else I also have
00:58:07.820 to like correct people's misinformation about what is and isn't scabbing. Like aren't you doing
00:58:13.240 enough right now? You know what I mean? Wow. I feel so seen. Thank you. Thank you for saying
00:58:18.100 that. It's really interesting because the WGA has been on strike for a little over 90 days
00:58:25.420 and SAG has been on strike for three weeks and I'm a member of both. So when the WGA strike was
00:58:32.200 called. I had to cease working on projects. I wasn't really acting in anything, but when the
00:58:38.300 SAG strike was called, some of the things that they're asking for is a pause on promoting
00:58:43.940 struck work, meaning any work that is produced by the studios. And it was really disheartening
00:58:51.440 to see so many people, again, three weeks now, but this was like week one. It was maybe three days.
00:58:58.260 There were people that were like, I can't talk about these movies. I'm like, bitch, it's been three days. Like, calm down. I haven't been able to work for months. Months I had to stop working. And again, no one is being forced to do anything. People can do whatever they want. 0.99
00:59:16.660 but our union rules state for both SAG and WGA that anyone who is potentially seeking future
00:59:24.100 membership is being asked to join us in solidarity and not promoting or engaging in struck work.
00:59:30.960 What does that mean? That means a movie is coming out. You're not talking about it. You're not
00:59:35.960 sharing it. You're not doing the work that the studios would be asking the actors and writers
00:59:39.940 to do. When the strike was called, the actors walked off the red carpet. They stopped doing
00:59:45.760 the press tour. I stop promoting on social media. The studios are like, we still need people to
00:59:51.600 watch these movies. So who are we going to go to? Let's go to the influencers. Hey, can you do
00:59:56.220 reviews? Hey, can you be on the red carpet? Hey, we're going to send you a box of goodies so that
01:00:00.280 you can talk about it. You are essentially replacing the role of the writers and actors.
01:00:06.740 Whether or not you have aspirations to be an actor or writer in the future,
01:00:10.360 that's what's happening. You are doing the work that normally we would be contracted to do.
01:00:17.760 And what was, again, very frustrating to me was this insistence that, well, I'm going to get mine.
01:00:25.360 Absolutely. Get yours. When and if you want to join the union, you are not someone that we are
01:00:30.740 going to want to be in community with because you want to work with people that have your back.
01:00:37.140 when you are spending 12, 13 hours on set, you want to be surrounded by people that you trust
01:00:43.640 and that are of high caliber and are ethical and honest. And if you see the strike as an
01:00:53.260 opportunity to get paid, again, do what you got to do. But the reality is people in this business
01:01:00.380 are not going to trust you. And so you are essentially saying, well, I now want to join
01:01:06.980 the union, but like when it was time to like really buckle down and support us, you couldn't
01:01:11.860 do it? Do it? We on week three? Week three? And again, this was like three days into the strike
01:01:21.080 when it happened. You know what it reminded me of? It reminded me of when the pandemic started
01:01:25.780 and all those celebrities were singing Imagine.
01:01:28.200 And it was like day three.
01:01:30.600 Like it was day three of the strike.
01:01:33.540 And it was like, what if there was no one?
01:01:36.220 It was like, nothing has happened.
01:01:38.700 You're in a mansion.
01:01:41.020 You're fine.
01:01:43.440 So if you, you know, and again,
01:01:46.580 maybe you don't want to be an actor,
01:01:48.400 but we also represent hosts.
01:01:50.260 We also represent podcasters and influencers
01:01:52.900 and stunt people and radio DJs and dancers and singers. There are so many different types of
01:02:00.640 people, audiobook performers. And I've said this many a time, I was an influencer. I know how those
01:02:08.940 checks are. They don't always be checking. And while this industry is not perfect, the reason
01:02:16.420 that we are striking is to make it better. The strike is not going to last forever. And when
01:02:20.920 the industry comes back, it's going to be better for it. And so if you have aspirations to be a
01:02:27.680 part of this industry and or you just believe that we deserve fair pay, we're asking you to
01:02:34.460 support us. And I know it's hard. Again, I had to stop working on something that I was working on
01:02:40.060 for three years. Three years I've been working on this project and I just had to stop. And I don't
01:02:45.400 know when I'll get to go back. I don't know if the project is dead. I don't know if I'll ever get
01:02:49.180 paid? I don't know. It sucks. It's not fun. The strike is not meant to be fun. It's meant to be
01:02:56.440 disruptive. And in order to do that, we need as much support as possible. So again, if you don't
01:03:03.260 want to do it, don't do it. If you're interested in doing it the right way, we just ask you go to
01:03:09.080 the website, sagafterstrike.org. All the rules are laid out there for journalists, for influencers,
01:03:14.500 for fans. And again, I appreciate the support. Again, I know it's really hard,
01:03:22.720 but you do things because they're the right things to do, not because they're the easy
01:03:27.120 things to do. Francesca, how can people listening, even if they're not entertainment folks,
01:03:34.520 they're inspired by your words and they want to support, what can they do?
01:03:38.580 If you're in New York or Los Angeles, we would love to see you on the picket lines. You do not
01:03:42.920 have to be in the industry. You can go to the websites, wgacontract2023.org,
01:03:51.420 sagafterstrike.org to join us on the picket lines. You can also donate to the Entertainment
01:03:56.500 Fund. The Entertainment Fund provides financial assistance for writers, actors, crew members.
01:04:03.440 That includes assistants and makeup artists and hairstylists and anybody who is being
01:04:08.720 financially impacted by the strike. So you can donate there. SAG-AFTRA also has a strike fund
01:04:15.500 that you can donate to via their website. And also just continuing to amplify our message.
01:04:21.620 I think oftentimes people want an easy solution. I'm seeing lots of people being like, well,
01:04:26.920 should I cancel my subscriptions? No, we're not asking you to do that. We're not asking you. We
01:04:31.820 know you want to help, but what you can do is amplify our message, dispel the misinformation
01:04:37.020 that people might be sharing or digesting about the strike. Share this podcast episode, for example.
01:04:45.780 All of that helps. And again, I appreciate anybody that is standing in solidarity with us. It really
01:04:52.700 means a lot. And I have to say, you individually, Francesca, have been such a clear voice. I've
01:04:59.840 listened to you on multiple podcasts in preparation for this. I've read multiple interviews. You are
01:05:05.300 out here doing the work of helping folks understand what people are asking for, the stakes,
01:05:10.760 how they can get involved. And I just really appreciate that you're doing that. Like you
01:05:13.920 have been kicking ass at this strike. Thank you so much. I've joked many a 0.98
01:05:19.160 times that the studio is really fucked up because I ain't got no job now. So my job is the strike. 0.96
01:05:24.560 And you can, and you make videos that you like something will happen on at 10 o'clock in the
01:05:28.400 morning by 11. I see your TikTok. I'm like, she's on it. Yeah. You know, again, this is a weird time,
01:05:34.460 but it has been a creatively inspiring time for me. And I think that's really been the silver
01:05:41.680 lining is that when you turn your creative passion to a job, it's a double-edged sword
01:05:49.080 because you love what you do, but now you're creating by committee. It's like, we got to get
01:05:53.720 on a Zoom to talk about, you know, whatever, whatever you submitted. And so there's something
01:05:59.940 really freeing about, yeah, something happens at 10, and I'm like, ooh, I have an idea for this,
01:06:04.700 and I'm just going to make it. And I don't have to get approval from anybody, and I don't have
01:06:09.740 to wait. And the success is not tied to how many views it gets. It doesn't matter if it does a
01:06:16.220 million views or 10 views. I liked it. I had a good time making it. People enjoyed it. And so
01:06:21.360 it's a success for me. And I have to admit that that was kind of missing from my work in years
01:06:28.220 past. And so it has been really nice to just like create with reckless abandon. And my hope is that
01:06:35.440 when the strike is over, I can kind of sustain that and infuse that in my paid work because it
01:06:41.340 has been really, it's been really fulfilling. Well, that's beautiful. Like what a good,
01:06:46.420 what a silver lining. Yeah. Yeah. I try. Shout out to my therapist because she's real good at
01:06:51.500 being like, sounds like something positive happened. And I'm like, okay, Shani. Okay. Okay.
01:06:58.220 Well, Francesca, you know, I firmly believe that TV and movies are, like, one of the last things we have that are just purely good and that we should get to have good stories and also have the people that make them being treated like human beings and being fairly compensated for what they give us.
01:07:15.340 Because, like, we don't have a lot of things that are just purely good anymore.
01:07:18.460 And that's, like, one thing that we have.
01:07:21.280 Yeah, it's true.
01:07:22.440 I, there's so many times that you come home from like a long day and you turn on the TV and you
01:07:29.080 get to enjoy like a story and immerse yourself in it and feel seen and, or just like turn your
01:07:35.120 brain off and forget all the things that are stressing you out and just laugh. And I feel
01:07:40.080 really fortunate that I've been able to do that. Um, and I've been able to work in this business
01:07:45.540 for a little over a decade and I've met so many incredible people and I just, I'm excited to
01:07:51.260 continue doing it. And I'm really excited about the potential to create a pathway for more people
01:07:58.200 to join this industry. I think it's really, really, really beautiful. And especially as
01:08:02.900 someone who came from the internet and now has gotten to make my dreams come true. I want that
01:08:08.580 for anybody who wants it. And so that's what we're fighting for. And again, I've said it so
01:08:14.640 many times, but we're fighting because I know that we will win.
01:08:21.260 Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi?
01:08:26.540 You can reach us at hello at tangody.com.
01:08:28.800 You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tangody.com.
01:08:32.260 There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by me, Bridget Todd.
01:08:34.980 It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.
01:08:37.700 Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer.
01:08:39.760 Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer.
01:08:42.380 Michael Amato is our contributing producer.
01:08:44.380 I'm your host, Bridget Todd.
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01:09:19.260 and Love Island to serve the same level of discourse.
01:09:22.040 Each week, we're connecting the dots
01:09:23.420 between books, the internet, and pop culture
01:09:25.540 with your favorite writers, book talk creators,
01:09:28.340 and plenty of overthought opinions.
01:09:30.300 Yeah, I'm obsessed, I'm obsessed.
01:09:32.060 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app,
01:09:34.780 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:09:38.160 I survived nine months in captivity,
01:09:41.040 and I've spent my life exploring
01:09:43.300 how other people survive what should have destroyed them.
01:09:46.840 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.
01:09:50.440 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable,
01:09:54.160 abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
01:09:58.000 These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
01:10:01.820 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart
01:10:04.600 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
01:10:07.600 or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:10:09.440 New school year, same beautiful mess. 1.00
01:10:13.020 Good Moms Bad Choices is back to talk back to school 1.00
01:10:16.160 realness the guilt the giggles and the choices no other show is brave enough to admit mom life 0.97
01:10:22.620 is calling and i have my last motherfucking volleyball tournament of iris club team volleyball 0.96
01:10:28.360 and i cannot wait for this to be over because i don't like participating and having to drive 0.96
01:10:37.100 far distances shout out to the moms and my mom who made it happen listen to good moms bad choices
01:10:42.800 from the Black Effect Podcast Network
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